#emc | Logs for 2011-12-07

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[00:02:16] <danimal3> andypugh: thats what i thought
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[00:03:30] <danimal3> they ran new cable from my modem to the main connection in the front of the house for me yesterday because my internet was sucking
[00:04:33] <danimal3> i tried 2 temperature controlers, it seems that something may be off with the thermocoupler
[00:07:10] <andypugh> Not the type you assume?
[00:08:01] <danimal3> it's supposed to be a k
[00:08:09] <danimal3> i dunno
[00:08:25] <danimal3> the parameter is set for k
[00:08:47] <tom3p> kelvin? 900degCelscius is ~1200K (chec my math )
[00:09:38] <cpresser> correct, tom3p. the difference is 273.15
[00:10:30] <andypugh> No, we mean K-type thermocouple
[00:11:26] <andypugh> danimal3: Is it wired K-type all the way to the cold-junction? Perhaps someone has connected it with plain copper wire, and the cold-junction is somewhere hot?
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[00:31:18] <tom3p> what dc voltage to use on my sable2015 spindle? its 100W 110ac, but its a 'universal' motor.
[00:31:19] <tom3p> http://www.cnc-sable.nl/images/Boormachine.jpg
[00:31:39] <tom3p> since its 'universal' i should be able to use it with dc and a pwm controller
[00:32:56] <Danimal_garage> didnt someone say 80 at some point?
[00:32:59] <Danimal_garage> or 88?
[00:33:14] <tom3p> i tried a Harbor Freight router speed control. it wouldnt turn on till 75% and made the lcd monitor flicker on and off at about 1hZ
[00:33:29] <tom3p> 88?/ 80? like .707 x 120V ?
[00:33:42] <Danimal_garage> something like that
[00:33:57] <Danimal_garage> i dunno
[00:34:04] <Danimal_garage> i just remember someone saying that
[00:34:15] <Danimal_garage> one of the germans
[00:34:22] <tom3p> thx for the info, wondering why that relation would be...
[00:35:14] <Danimal_garage> doesnt the voltage change when you rectify ac to dc? maybe its related to that
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[00:37:03] <tom3p> yep, 120Vac goes 'up' to near 170Vdc and it'd be near 55V ac that'd rectify to th 80V, maybe actr tap 120V trafo will help here and poor rectification ;)
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[00:38:24] <Danimal_garage> huh?
[00:39:51] <tom3p> bridge/full wave rectification vs single diode can be a 2:1 output difference
[00:40:59] <tom3p> so a std buck/boost trafo could be used to get the 80ish Vdc off a 110/120 input
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[02:07:15] <zhanx> on the mesa boards what are they using for wire-to-board terminal blocks
[02:08:41] <JaegerBar> hi tom3p
[02:08:44] <Tom_itx> pcw_home would know
[02:08:48] <JaegerBar> are you the same as tom_itx?
[02:08:53] <Tom_itx> no
[02:09:08] <Tom_itx> but we should keep you guessing
[02:09:24] <JaegerBar> tom3p, how do you like your Sable 2015
[02:10:04] <tom3p> i think its a great starter unit, very very solid, all metal
[02:11:41] <JaegerBar> well does IT WORK so far?
[02:12:35] <tom3p> haha, i use it to cut soap! the chuck is not not good for metal. wood and carbon would do well i suppose.
[02:12:58] <tom3p> measurements say its good, pockets are to size
[02:13:40] <tom3p> my .0005"/dev indicator cannot register differences from power up to power down ( i added homing switches )
[02:14:29] <tom3p> soap bars are cheaper than the wax sold for same purpose. the hard brittle stuff from hotels is what i use
[02:15:50] <JaegerBar> wax?
[02:15:56] <JaegerBar> soap doesn't behave like wax
[02:16:02] <JaegerBar> what do you use it for
[02:16:47] <pcw_home> Our normal field terminals are 3.5 MM Phoenix contact compatible demountable (pluggable) screw terminals
[02:16:59] <tom3p> learning, really the soap seems to act like the wax did
[02:17:42] <zhanx> pcw_home: got a digit-key link?
[02:18:05] <pcw_home> and you can wash your hands with the swarf...
[02:19:27] <pcw_home> zhanx:What connector are you looking for? (we can supply most)
[02:20:02] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, this is for an unrelated arm board we're workingon
[02:20:31] <Tom_itx> connectors like the 7I47 etc use
[02:20:54] <Tom_itx> i use some .1 phoenix type but aren't pluggable
[02:22:43] <pcw_home> Id have to go lookup the Phoenix contact numbers ( we use Cixi Rijing)
[02:23:05] <Tom_itx> alot cheaper i'm sure
[02:23:54] <Tom_itx> is that a china only supplied part or available thru normal distributors?
[02:24:00] <pcw_home> maybe 20% of Weidmuller we used before
[02:25:14] <pcw_home> I dont think they have any distys here
[02:25:32] <pcw_home> What size do you need?
[02:26:07] <Tom_itx> i haven't sat down yet to figure the pin count but it's for a breakout board for the cortdx M4
[02:26:10] <Tom_itx> cortex*
[02:26:25] <zhanx> 48
[02:26:40] <zhanx> per side that is
[02:26:44] <zhanx> so 4 24's
[02:27:06] <Tom_itx> that would group them in 8 nicely if you went that way
[02:27:07] <pcw_home> I think they are OK with small orders. We lik egoing to the manufacturer so we always get the same thing (weve been happy with their quality)
[02:27:29] <Tom_itx> they don't make .1 spaced pluggable do they?
[02:27:41] <Tom_itx> probably not
[02:29:17] <JaegerBar> tom3p , do you have any images of the Sable 2015 you can send me? Also, where did you get it?
[02:29:43] <pcw_home> There are such things but Cixi Rijing does not make them
[02:29:52] <Tom_itx> ok
[02:30:00] <zhanx> found some on digikey
[02:30:28] <tom3p> if i can figger how to convert a3p videos from my cell... an di got it right in Taiwan when i worked there ( same guy on ebay )
[02:30:37] <zhanx> 0.138" pitch but close enough
[02:30:49] <JaegerBar> hey tom3p, is it any cheaper getting it in taiwan?
[02:31:24] <tom3p> yeah, free shipping ( u carry it out ;)
[02:31:38] <pcw_home> Cixi makes .1" spring type terminals
[02:32:00] <JaegerBar> so how much did it actually cost from Luke Chan?
[02:32:06] <zhanx> link?
[02:32:25] <zhanx> i would love to use spring type
[02:32:43] <JaegerBar> TOMMY3P
[02:32:47] <tom3p> JaegerBar, it was near 500$ us, i ferget the NT$ and i got the whole shebang, amp, spindle
[02:32:55] <JaegerBar> i want to know EXACTLY what you paid for it in Taiwan dollars
[02:33:00] <pcw_home> http://en.cxrj.com.cn/products_detail/&productId=229d579d-f1f0-45bb-adc0-b70a3d6ef11c&comp_stats=comp-FrontProducts_list01-1277178005206.html
[02:33:02] <tom3p> good luck
[02:33:21] <Tom_itx> thanks pcw_home
[02:33:26] <JaegerBar> wait you got the spindle and controllers too for $500
[02:35:18] <JaegerBar> tom3p do you think i could negotiate with the eBay seller
[02:35:29] <JaegerBar> is he firm or an old softy when it comes to price
[02:35:39] <JaegerBar> do you think he'll cut me a deal
[02:35:55] <tom3p> no negotiation, i paid list, got immed delivery, thats all
[02:36:14] <JaegerBar> list would be $700 for everything would it not?
[02:36:32] <JaegerBar> $200 for router + controller and $500 for the table + steppers
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[02:41:55] <JaegerBar> oh cmon tom3p, give me the details. where in taiwan is he located? how much did u pay precisely? I need to know because i'm gonna ask my friend to buy it for me
[02:47:07] <danimal3> pcw_home: i wish you had those on the 7i37 and 7i33
[02:47:50] <danimal3> JaegerBar: what are you planning on machining?
[02:48:04] <JaegerBar> with the Sable 2015? pc boards
[02:48:13] <danimal3> i got something that might work for you
[02:48:19] <JaegerBar> i'm planning on getting one..... my buddy is in Taiwan right now on vacation anyways
[02:48:36] <JaegerBar> i'm also going to get a big metal mill too, but that's separate
[02:48:42] <JaegerBar> what do you have?
[02:48:59] <danimal3> a small desktop router
[02:49:24] <danimal3> it's got a bosch router as a spindle on it now but thats easily changed
[02:49:38] <danimal3> servos for all 3 axii
[02:49:45] <danimal3> ball screws for x and y
[02:50:12] <danimal3> it just needs a 5i20 and a computer
[02:50:35] <danimal3> got the config files, the 7i37, and 7i33 already in it
[02:50:44] <danimal3> and wired
[02:51:07] <pcw_home> danimal3: they are available http://en.cxrj.com.cn/products_detail/&productId=523dc2f7-a1fe-40b7-85b2-0b27ce3d2845&comp_stats=comp-FrontProducts_list01-1277178005206.html
[02:51:38] <danimal3> pcw_home: those plug right in?
[02:51:51] <pcw_home> should
[02:51:58] <danimal3> i gotta get me some of those
[02:52:04] <danimal3> thanks!
[02:52:20] <alex4nder-> hey
[02:52:25] <danimal3> hi
[02:52:50] <JaegerBar> wow that's great
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[02:53:24] <alex4nder-> hm, time for beer.
[02:53:29] <JaegerBar> what kind?
[02:53:39] <danimal3> the work's already done for you, i actually even have a computer with it with emc already installed
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[02:53:57] <JaegerBar> can you beat the price of the sable
[02:54:10] <danimal3> how much is it?
[02:54:16] <JaegerBar> $500 for everything
[02:54:22] <JaegerBar> no inc. computer tho
[02:54:31] <danimal3> or the mesa boards
[02:54:55] <danimal3> this is a bit better than anything you're going to get for 500, so no
[02:54:56] <JaegerBar> $500 local pickup in taiwan including router and controller
[02:55:37] <danimal3> link?
[02:56:24] <danimal3> i have 500 into just the z axis, mesa boards, and spindle
[02:56:59] <JaegerBar> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-/200683089624?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb9a4eed8
[02:57:32] <JaegerBar> if i do local pickup i get the spindle + mesa boards thrown in all for $500
[02:57:54] <JaegerBar> and i got a guy in taipei right now to do local pickup =p
[02:58:06] <JaegerBar> make me a deal Danimal, i'll take it off your hands
[02:58:21] <danimal3> mine is a whole lot more machine than that
[02:58:59] <danimal3> it has thk linear rails and servos
[02:59:10] <danimal3> and ball screws
[02:59:37] <danimal3> not steppers and lead screws
[03:00:05] <JaegerBar> holy crap you got servos on that lol
[03:00:11] <danimal3> yes
[03:00:12] <JaegerBar> never seen a pcb router with servos
[03:00:23] <danimal3> 600ipm rapids
[03:01:35] <JaegerBar> do you have a picture?
[03:01:45] <JaegerBar> is this a homebrew projekt?
[03:01:50] <danimal3> plus mine's all steel, not aluminum.
[03:01:53] <JaegerBar> i mean is the table like a homebrew style
[03:01:58] <JaegerBar> i see.....
[03:02:09] <danimal3> yes and no, it was a conversion
[03:02:24] <danimal3> im looking for pics, hold on
[03:03:23] <danimal3> i'd probably want 1k for it
[03:03:33] <danimal3> ill throw in the computer
[03:04:56] <danimal3> http://www.youtube.com/user/isuckatriding?feature=mhee#p/a/u/1/k_oQmzgqONU
[03:05:04] <danimal3> turn the sound off or down
[03:05:20] <alex4nder-> danimal3: that's rad.
[03:05:24] <danimal3> http://www.youtube.com/user/isuckatriding?feature=mhee#p/a/u/2/2HdA2myl_oQ
[03:05:30] <danimal3> thanks!
[03:05:58] <JaegerBar> i can tell that's a lot of machine
[03:06:34] <danimal3> the base plate is 5/8" thick precision ground tooling plate.
[03:07:00] <danimal3> the second vid is before the base plate was installed
[03:07:43] <danimal3> i was going to use it for engraving, but im going to get a laser instead
[03:08:02] <JaegerBar> yeah a laser would last longer
[03:08:11] <danimal3> the machine is at least a couple hundred lbs
[03:08:18] <JaegerBar> oooooooo that's hefty
[03:08:20] <danimal3> i would say
[03:08:44] <danimal3> 6x9x12 travel i think
[03:08:51] <danimal3> maybe more
[03:08:53] <danimal3> i forgets
[03:09:31] <toastyde1th> that's a very interesting machine design
[03:09:33] <toastyde1th> almost like a cmm
[03:09:57] <danimal3> it was a part marking machine with an ink jet nozzle on it
[03:10:10] <toastyde1th> oh, cool
[03:10:23] <danimal3> it was about a $40-50k machine with the nozzle
[03:11:03] <danimal3> i'm going to put the fadal 5th axis on it
[03:11:16] <Tom_itx> there's room?
[03:11:17] <danimal3> kidding.....
[03:11:23] <danimal3> LOL
[03:11:26] <danimal3> no
[03:11:47] <JaegerBar> do you think it could produce precision pcbs though? like repeatably 0.1mm traces spaced 0.4mm apart
[03:12:18] <danimal3> better than the sable i'd bet
[03:12:37] <danimal3> it's got servos, much beefier bearings, and ballscrews
[03:13:23] <JaegerBar> k
[03:14:36] <JaegerBar> damn this looks like i could do some minor aluminum work with it if the router is capable enough
[03:15:12] <danimal3> i'd probably add another bearing to the z axis so you could add some preload, but yea
[03:15:34] <JaegerBar> i can at least cut stainless (thin) sheetmetal with it
[03:15:41] <danimal3> yea
[03:15:52] <JaegerBar> which is probably better done on something like this than a big mill
[03:16:22] <danimal3> eh
[03:16:25] <Tom_itx> bigger more rigid mills have less tool chatter
[03:16:52] <Tom_itx> especially on harder metals
[03:17:47] <danimal3> the sable might do fine for pcb's, i've never machined any so i dunno. but this will definitely be a bit more rigid
[03:18:23] <Tom_itx> FR4 is quite abrasive and you probably know how copper machines
[03:18:39] <Tom_itx> stringy crap
[03:18:43] <danimal3> yea
[03:19:03] <Tom_itx> some ppl seem to like milling them though
[03:19:37] <danimal3> i wouldnt even know where to start, i'm lucky i can screw in a lightbulb
[03:19:59] <danimal3> electronics are not my forte
[03:20:25] <Tom_itx> i tried milling a couple but my spindle is too slow
[03:20:48] <JaegerBar> Danimal looks to have a decent router attached to that one
[03:21:00] <Tom_itx> by the time you get the mill, tools etc it's cheaper to have them fabbed i think
[03:21:05] <JaegerBar> yeah routing a PCB is probably annoying if you want to do fine work
[03:21:20] <JaegerBar> but for the stuff i do most of the time it should be fine and i shouldn't have to replace the larger bits too often
[03:21:47] <Tom_itx> they will dull quick on that material
[03:21:52] <JaegerBar> yeah the issue is i make a lot of prototypes and i'm sick of waiting around 1 week for the PCBs to come
[03:22:09] <JaegerBar> they really charge you up the wazoo for the quick turnaround time
[03:22:09] <danimal3> it's a bosch colt with variable speed
[03:22:14] <danimal3> palm router
[03:22:27] <JaegerBar> Tom you sound like you're an expert with PCB routing
[03:22:39] <danimal3> 1/4" collet
[03:22:43] <Tom_itx> nope
[03:22:54] <Tom_itx> i've etched a few
[03:23:02] <Tom_itx> and had some fabricated
[03:23:31] <JaegerBar> i wonder how long the bigger routing bits last when doing FR4 + copper
[03:23:36] <Tom_itx> if it were practical to mill them, the industry would be doing it
[03:23:46] <JaegerBar> Danimal, that does sound a bit nicer than a Dremel tool
[03:24:05] <JaegerBar> Tom, the reason people don't mill is because lithography OWNS
[03:24:24] <Tom_itx> not cost effective
[03:24:30] <JaegerBar> i even prefer lithography myself or even the toner transfer method , but i am getting tired of the chemicals
[03:24:36] <JaegerBar> and also, like i said before, the turnaround time
[03:24:45] <JaegerBar> a couple germans in here have had good success doing pcb routing
[03:24:50] <JaegerBar> so i think i'll give it a shot
[03:27:36] <danimal3> the router was $100, never used except for that video you saw
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[03:30:27] <JaegerBar> ok i offer you $800
[03:30:29] <JaegerBar> i can get the money tomorrow
[03:30:37] <JaegerBar> cash, sight unseen
[03:30:57] <Tom_itx> 1k is a bargain
[03:31:16] <Tom_itx> for that
[03:32:01] <JaegerBar> it's more a matter of, i have literally $5000 to spend on a mill, a router, and tooling
[03:32:14] <JaegerBar> i'm limited by my budget......and wait, you're not Dan
[03:32:22] <Tom_itx> danimal3 what's the x y z box size?
[03:33:26] <Tom_itx> hell i might even offer 1200.. wonder if he'd deliver it for that
[03:34:44] <JaegerBar> well if he wants it out of his sight tomorrow, i'm the guy he wants to sell to
[03:35:02] <JaegerBar> i'm a no bullshit kind of buyer
[03:38:15] <danimal3> Tom_itx: it's about 14"x12"x6
[03:38:32] <danimal3> roughly
[03:38:42] <Tom_itx> roughly the same as my sherline but better axis
[03:38:57] <Tom_itx> tad bit bigger
[03:39:02] <danimal3> the z is a lead screw, but it's got the anti backlash nut
[03:39:09] <danimal3> the other 2 are ball screws
[03:39:13] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:39:35] <danimal3> 600ipm rapids for x and y, 450ipm for z
[03:39:50] <danimal3> i think the lead screw slows it down
[03:39:50] <Tom_itx> that's better than the fadal we had :)
[03:39:56] <danimal3> lol
[03:40:04] <danimal3> better than any machine i have
[03:40:11] <danimal3> for speed
[03:40:12] <Tom_itx> it was 200
[03:40:18] <danimal3> ouch!
[03:40:24] <Tom_itx> the one he kept was a small one
[03:40:29] <Tom_itx> the newer ones were better
[03:40:30] <danimal3> thats what my old mill and my lathe is
[03:40:43] <Tom_itx> and iirc some were over 1k
[03:41:05] <Tom_itx> makes you double check your cad file for sure
[03:41:20] <danimal3> haha dry run for sure
[03:41:39] <Tom_itx> i don't think we ever used wax though
[03:41:41] <Tom_itx> maybe on one part
[03:41:57] <JaegerBar> i can also trade a very nice SYM HD200 scooter
[03:42:02] <JaegerBar> or the $800
[03:42:36] <danimal3> i'm not 14
[03:42:45] <Tom_itx> haha
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[03:42:52] <JaegerBar> niether am i, this goes 0-60mph in about 6 seconds
[03:45:21] <danimal3> for every offer under 1000 you offer me, the price goes up by an equal amount
[03:45:32] <JaegerBar> okay why don't we forget about that
[03:45:38] <JaegerBar> $1000 even, including computer
[03:46:26] <JaegerBar> well Tom likes it so why don't you wait for him to make his big old offer
[03:46:42] <JaegerBar> if you sell to me it will be gone tomorrow
[03:48:18] <danimal3> i'm not exactly in a rush to sell it, i forgot i even had it until you mentioned it
[03:49:02] <JaegerBar> well you do need to make room for your laser engraver
[03:49:21] <JaegerBar> ;)
[03:49:38] <danimal3> not really
[03:49:53] <danimal3> i don't have to put it in my dad's garage
[03:50:01] <Tom_itx> he'll just do like JT did and add on
[03:50:17] <danimal3> haha
[03:50:18] <JaegerBar> alright well sell it to Tom then haha
[03:50:27] <JaegerBar> he's gonna offer your $200 more than me
[03:50:40] <JaegerBar> but you'll have to ship it up and worry about it getting there in one piece
[03:50:46] <danimal3> the price is 1k, i dont play bidding wars
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[03:51:54] <JaegerBar> i was ready to spend about $750, but seems like a nice machine so i guess since you're in no rush i'll have time to think about it
[03:52:04] <JaegerBar> Tom, it's all yours buddy ;)
[03:52:41] <danimal3> you sound like the tool box that tried to offer me 4600 for my Ford Ranger
[03:52:51] <danimal3> $600*
[03:53:07] <JaegerBar> if you knew anything about that scooter, you'd take it in a heartbeat ;)
[03:53:21] <danimal3> again, i'm not 14
[03:53:29] <danimal3> i have an adult motorcycle
[03:53:32] <JaegerBar> doesn't matter, it's worth over $1500
[03:55:50] <danimal3> Trade it for someone's GIJoes or something
[03:56:11] <JaegerBar> hahaha......i still have my GI Joes
[03:59:31] <alex4nder-> haha
[03:59:38] <alex4nder-> are you guys haggling?
[03:59:56] <JaegerBar> no, Dan and Tom are playing good cop bad cop on me
[04:00:05] <JaegerBar> or should i say good machinist bad machinist
[04:00:14] <danimal3> ?
[04:00:17] <JaegerBar> i made my offer.....
[04:00:22] <alex4nder-> I dunno, $1k sounds like a great deal.
[04:00:33] <JaegerBar> right, and it's what he wanted for it
[04:00:39] <danimal3> you offered me a scooter. and you sound like a shady used car salesman
[04:00:42] <JaegerBar> but apparently Tom's gonna swoop in with a bigger offer
[04:00:51] <alex4nder-> haha
[04:00:52] <alex4nder-> a scooter?
[04:00:56] * alex4nder- reads the scrollback
[04:01:10] <Tom_itx> alex4nder-, hardly worth it
[04:01:22] <alex4nder-> laf
[04:01:34] <alex4nder-> JaegerBar: how old are you?
[04:01:45] <JaegerBar> 30-somethin
[04:01:58] <Tom_itx> doubtful
[04:02:00] <danimal3> you're not 30 something
[04:02:16] <Tom_itx> still worried about putting it in dad's garage at 30?
[04:02:17] <JaegerBar> dude i said $1000
[04:02:23] <danimal3> i'm guessing 22 at most
[04:02:23] <JaegerBar> if Tom's gonna swoop in with $1200 sell it to him
[04:02:24] <JaegerBar> i'm done
[04:03:09] <alex4nder-> danimal3: what are you using to drive the axes on that machine?
[04:03:31] <danimal3> seros
[04:03:35] <danimal3> servos*
[04:03:51] <Tom_itx> nice setup just small for a mill
[04:03:58] <Tom_itx> maybe good for engraving or something
[04:04:07] <alex4nder-> danimal3: 5 TPI ballscrews?
[04:04:40] <danimal3> good question
[04:04:51] <danimal3> i dont remember
[04:05:13] <danimal3> i could check the config files and figure it out by the scale
[04:05:20] <alex4nder-> ah no worries, it just seems really fast
[04:05:29] <alex4nder-> I'm capped out at ~60 TPI on my taig
[04:05:42] <alex4nder-> and I think they rate the screws for 30.. so ..
[04:07:04] <danimal3> better torque probably
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[04:26:03] <Tom_itx> gnite
[04:27:10] <danimal3> nite!
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[05:18:15] <danimal3> youch, frost advisory tonight
[05:18:39] <danimal3> cold for december
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[05:53:08] <CmdrData> hola
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[07:43:52] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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