#emc | Logs for 2011-12-06

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[00:01:34] <alex_joni> yeah, haven't tried restoring the map yet
[00:02:12] <JT-Shop> ho hum the ballista is almost done
[00:03:20] <JaegerBar> can u shoot me with it now JT
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[00:14:02] <JT-Shop> at least the IRC is still working :/
[00:14:18] <andypugh> Forum is up again JT
[00:14:52] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: ballista? how big?
[00:15:02] <Loetmichel> hand launched or with wheels?
[00:15:03] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[00:15:50] <andypugh> Has anyone ever seen a problem with a (stepper) non-trivial kinematics machine creeping in joint mode?
[00:16:47] <andypugh> Or who would like to hazard a guess as to why it would?
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[00:25:27] <alex_joni> andypugh: wrong velocities?
[00:25:35] * JT-Shop guesses a HCHC must be totally different from a CHNC and the ladder won't work
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[00:25:49] <andypugh> alex_joni: From where?
[00:25:49] * JT-Shop or I'm on ignore
[00:26:13] * JT-Shop wishes I could click on a link and it would work
[00:28:50] <andypugh> JT ?
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[00:36:25] <JT-Shop> or the IRC is not really working for me... I can't tell
[00:37:12] <andypugh> What are you getting at. JT?
[00:38:41] <alex_joni> andypugh: are you on ja3?
[00:38:50] <andypugh> I see a comment about the Ballista, then about IRC working, then somethign about HCNC ladder, and then about going "on ignore", then about wanting to click links.
[00:39:05] <alex_joni> if not, then you're getting wrong velocities by design
[00:39:07] <andypugh> alex_joni: No, 2.4.7 with somebodies custom kins.
[00:39:17] <alex_joni> axes speed limits as joint limits, etc
[00:39:40] * alex_joni thinks about upgrading his internet connection
[00:40:01] <alex_joni> seems they advertise a new fiberlink for the same price I'm paying atm
[00:40:09] <alex_joni> 120 MBps instead of 24Mbps though
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[00:50:30] <andypugh> alex_joni: The problem is, that the axes move with no user intervention.
[00:51:03] <alex_joni> ah.. sorry, misunderstood your question
[00:51:11] <alex_joni> did you check stepgens?
[00:51:14] <alex_joni> do those move?
[00:51:30] <andypugh> I think so. I have nothing connected.
[00:51:33] <alex_joni> how about inputs to stepgens
[00:53:33] <andypugh> Well, at least part of the problem is NaN in the position-cmd...
[00:53:45] <andypugh> I guess I ought to get them to sort that out first.
[00:54:01] <andypugh> (arccos >1 I think)
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[00:54:29] <JT-Shop> my native language is American but I can understand English most of the time
[00:54:45] <andypugh> Though that doesn't really explain why there is no jogging in Joint mode.
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[00:55:52] <alex_joni> andypugh: right, NaN is never a good thing
[00:55:56] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: howdy
[00:56:12] <andypugh> Oh, I don't know, they go well with a curry.
[00:56:46] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You seem to be replying to messages several hours out of date?
[00:57:33] <Tom_itx> it must be his slow interweb
[00:57:59] <alex_joni> time travel?
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[01:11:15] <JT-Shop> internet is flaky
[01:11:39] * Tom_itx untangles the cord from the mower
[01:11:40] <JT-Shop> andypugh: can you see this?
[01:11:52] <andypugh> See what? :-)
[01:12:05] <Tom_itx> andypugh have you seen JT-Shop lately?
[01:12:16] <JT-Shop> alex_joni: hi
[01:12:37] <JT-Shop> it must be broken for me
[01:13:19] <andypugh> JT-Shop: The normal links aren't working (or weren't) but the bottom-left margin one was
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[01:17:53] <jthornton_> andypugh: is this live?
[01:18:03] <andypugh> I think so
[01:18:07] <andypugh> I haven't tried
[01:18:21] <jthornton_> ok, I had to fire up my modem :/
[01:18:32] <jthornton_> I was wondering what the heck was up
[01:19:04] <jthornton_> it was like being stuck in a time warp for me
[01:19:55] <andypugh> Forum is live, I posted a test message
[01:20:46] <jthornton_> has joomula been upgraded?
[01:21:42] <andypugh> 1.5.4
[01:21:46] <jthornton_> well it seems so
[01:22:13] <A2Sheds> does anyone make a decent quadrature divider/resampler?
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[01:22:30] <jthornton_> what the heck is that?
[01:23:51] <jthornton_> andypugh: to the wireless topic?
[01:24:08] <andypugh> No, that was a while ago
[01:24:24] <andypugh> I deleted the test post, it was in the test section.
[01:24:29] <jthornton_> ah ok
[01:24:38] <jthornton_> no wonder I could not find it
[01:25:32] <andypugh> A2Sheds: You want to downsample quadrature?
[01:26:06] <jthornton_> none of this is showing up on my other computer so they only have a spotty connection
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[01:27:53] <A2Sheds> down but not only by 2's
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[01:30:03] <alex_joni> jthornton_: let me know if anything is still wrong
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[02:07:55] <skunkworks_> Yay - the search works on the forum now!
[02:08:01] <skunkworks_> Nice work!
[02:08:09] <cradek> yay!
[02:08:18] <skunkworks_> (you could never see anything more than page 1)
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[02:24:14] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: I plan to upgrade kunena shortly
[02:24:15] <cradek> wonder if rss still works the same
[02:24:28] <alex_joni> cradek: for now it should
[02:24:45] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Isn;t it past your bedtime?
[02:24:59] <cradek> superheroes don't need sleep
[02:25:08] <alex_joni> hmm.. crap
[02:25:15] <alex_joni> the rss links are wrong :)
[02:25:45] <Jymmm> alex_joni: WOOHOO!
[02:27:18] <Jymmm> oh wait.. that wasn't a woohoo moment, was it?
[02:27:53] <alex_joni> well.. SEO links changed
[02:28:23] <alex_joni> so it's not foo/component/option,com_kunena/...
[02:28:34] <alex_joni> but it's foo/index.php/kunena/...
[02:28:42] <alex_joni> where foo is www.linuxcnc.org
[02:29:06] <alex_joni> off to bed though ;)
[02:29:57] <cradek> so rss works but just the paths changed?
[02:30:54] <cradek> goodnight :-)
[02:35:17] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxDo1MZEnfM
[02:37:19] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qmktz_dQ2E&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[02:37:59] <danimal_laptop|2> i have yet to try threading on my lathe
[02:38:03] <cradek> skunkworks_: do you think he meant it to look like that?
[02:38:42] <danimal_laptop|2> does anyone have any ideas how to work the hydraulic brakes on my 5th axis?
[02:38:54] <danimal_laptop|2> there's 2 pumps
[02:38:56] <skunkworks_> I think so - the description seems to say something like that as far as I can tell
[02:39:00] <danimal_laptop|2> i assume 2 valves
[02:39:09] <cradek> Jymmm: what the hell
[02:40:15] <danimal_laptop|2> i think that's Jymmm
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[02:42:04] <danimal_laptop|2> is there a way to hook up a gpio pin to the pwm output of the 4th or 5th axis so if there's any voltage it unlocks the brake?
[02:42:33] <Jymmm> cradek: What, I thught it was a new add-on to emc2
[02:43:24] <pcw_home> I suspect you would need to release the brake before you engage the servos
[02:44:31] <danimal_laptop|2> pcw_home: yea, you're probably right. any ideas?
[02:44:33] <cradek> danimal_laptop|2: maybe you want to investigate the "locking rotary" feature
[02:44:40] <danimal_laptop|2> ha
[02:44:46] <cradek> no really
[02:44:47] <danimal_laptop|2> didnt know there was one
[02:44:50] <cradek> there is
[02:44:54] <danimal_laptop|2> cool!
[02:45:04] <danimal_laptop|2> emc never ceases to amaze me
[02:45:07] <danimal_laptop|2> thanks!
[02:45:21] <skunkworks_> danimal_laptop|2: are you going to do contouring?
[02:45:23] <cradek> there's a loopback for unlock (axis.n.unlock -> axis.n.is-unlocked) and it waits for unlocking/relocking before and after the move
[02:45:32] <danimal_laptop|2> sweet
[02:45:36] <danimal_laptop|2> skunkworks: yes
[02:45:40] <Jymmm> "EMC2 Acme Zit Popper v1.5"
[02:45:46] <skunkworks_> then locking rotories will not work for you...
[02:45:54] <cradek> oh if you're doing contouring you can't have locking...
[02:46:16] <danimal_laptop|2> ah
[02:46:18] <cradek> well you can, but you'll have to lock/unlock manually
[02:46:24] <danimal_laptop|2> gotcha
[02:46:34] <danimal_laptop|2> do they usually lock/unlock manually?
[02:46:40] <cradek> skunkworks is the expert on this. somehow though, he hasn't written the documentation yet.
[02:47:18] <skunkworks_> I unlock the y axis brake right when the drives come active... have not had any problem yet.. (hydraulic brake)
[02:47:35] <danimal_laptop|2> the thing seems pretty damn rigid, i was considering not even use the brakes.
[02:47:46] <skunkworks_> (plus I don't want the y axis to drop)
[02:47:56] <danimal_laptop|2> i think the brakes are an option on it, not standard equipment anyways
[02:48:11] <cradek> brakes make sense if you're using it as an indexer
[02:48:21] <skunkworks_> cradek: There isn't documentation? ;)
[02:48:27] <cradek> not so much, otherwise, since you can let your servos hold position for you
[02:48:38] <cradek> skunkworks_: hell I don't know, do I look like a tech writer?
[02:48:53] <danimal_laptop|2> skunkworks: how do you have it hooked up in your config?
[02:49:01] <cradek> I can't even spel words rite
[02:49:06] <danimal_laptop|2> werds*
[02:49:50] <danimal_laptop|2> i dont even know if i'll need brakes at all, it's only a knee mill and the servos on the rotary are almost as big as they are on the mill
[02:51:31] <pcw_home> maybe they are like skunkworks Y axis, a safety feature
[02:51:58] <skunkworks_> net emcmot.01.enable hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).1.gpio.058.out
[02:52:08] <danimal_laptop|2> yea, but like i said, they are sold seperately
[02:52:24] <danimal_laptop|2> skunkworks: ahh, i thought you had it so it unlocked for movement
[02:52:38] <danimal_laptop|2> not for when the amp is enabled
[02:52:50] <skunkworks_> nope
[02:53:02] <danimal_laptop|2> gotcha
[02:53:05] <skunkworks_> it is unlocked as long as the servos are enabled
[02:53:23] <danimal_laptop|2> maybe i'll just make a pyvcp button for the brakes then
[02:53:49] <skunkworks_> I have a locking rotory... but that works as expected.
[02:53:54] <danimal_laptop|2> or put it in the program with an m code
[02:53:55] <pcw_home> You have the pump?
[02:54:07] <danimal_laptop|2> yes, one pump per axis
[02:54:18] <skunkworks_> danimal_laptop|2: I think you want it automated..
[02:55:32] <danimal_laptop|2> i would like it automated, just not sure how to do it yet
[02:55:55] <pcw_home> Yeah probably dont want the servo straining as hard as it can against the brake...
[02:56:02] <danimal_laptop|2> yea
[02:56:34] <danimal_laptop|2> other than the locking rotary feature
[02:57:35] <danimal_laptop|2> so if its doing contouring, i can't use the locking rotary feature at all? It wont just unlock for the contouring?
[02:58:24] <danimal_laptop|2> i assume that would be tricky if trying to sync it with the other axii when doing contouring
[02:58:34] <skunkworks_> no. it is only for positioning (g0)
[02:58:58] <skunkworks_> wait - is that right. (I guess that is how I use it)
[02:59:05] <cradek> yes
[02:59:07] <skunkworks_> ok
[03:00:01] <cradek> the theory is this: if you have a lock, it means you can't cut with it unlocked, because if you could, you wouldn't need a lock. if you can't cut with it unlocked, you can't do contouring, so it's an indexer. it makes no sense to move an indexer except as a rapid.
[03:00:44] <skunkworks_> sound good to me :)
[03:02:19] <danimal_laptop|2> this is supposed to do contouring
[03:02:37] <skunkworks_> then unlock them when the servos come active.
[03:02:43] <danimal_laptop|2> it's a fadal 5th axis, there's videos of it online doing contouring
[03:02:44] <cradek> then it must be stout enough to cut without being locked
[03:02:51] <cradek> so ... why do you have a lock
[03:03:02] <Tom_itx> indexing
[03:03:05] <danimal_laptop|2> like i said, the brakes are an added on option from what i read
[03:03:08] <Tom_itx> probably
[03:03:13] <danimal_laptop|2> they are sold without the brakes
[03:03:22] <cradek> can you just ignore them?
[03:03:31] <danimal_laptop|2> that was a thought
[03:03:45] <danimal_laptop|2> i can easily remove the lines
[03:03:54] <skunkworks_> maybe they have an option to lock them when you are making a very heavy cut.
[03:03:56] <danimal_laptop|2> pipe thread plugs
[03:04:05] <danimal_laptop|2> skunkworks: that is my understanding
[03:06:39] <skunkworks_> so then maybe your idea of having an option to lock them when needed... (mcode or such) but you would want some logic in there that if maybe the axis is called to move without unlocking - you get an estop
[03:06:58] <cradek> you'll get an ferror soon enough
[03:07:17] <skunkworks_> I suppose - that works
[03:07:30] <danimal_laptop|2> lol cradek i suppose you're right
[03:07:48] <skunkworks_> make sure you set your ferror sanely
[03:07:52] <skunkworks_> ;)
[03:13:18] <danimal_laptop|2> ha
[03:13:31] <danimal_laptop|2> what, 3 inches isnt good?
[03:13:38] <danimal_laptop|2> :)
[03:14:46] <danimal_laptop|2> for rotary, F is in degrees, right?
[03:14:56] <danimal_laptop|2> i guess i can look that up...
[03:15:23] <cradek> F word for a/b/c is degrees/minute
[03:17:56] <danimal_laptop|2> hmm, it only does 5 revs a minute?
[03:18:03] <danimal_laptop|2> slow
[03:18:20] <danimal_laptop|2> 2000 is max
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[03:33:07] <danimal_laptop|2> damn, this kiln is taking forever to get to temp. it's been hours and it only got to 415c
[03:34:03] <Tom_itx> element bad?
[03:34:20] <danimal_laptop|2> they're all red
[03:34:34] <danimal_laptop|2> it's only 115v though
[03:34:48] <Tom_itx> bricks good?
[03:34:57] <danimal_laptop|2> not the prettiest
[03:35:05] <danimal_laptop|2> but all there
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[06:43:42] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[06:44:02] <alex4nder-> how's it going?
[06:44:16] <Loetmichel> *jaaaaawn*
[06:44:21] <alex4nder-> werd
[06:44:45] <Loetmichel> more or less ok.... have an appontment with the dentist in 45 minutes.
[06:44:56] <alex4nder-> ah, good luck with that
[06:45:57] <alex4nder-> I'm designing an enclosure for my taig
[06:46:05] <alex4nder-> trying to decide what I want the base of the enclosure to me.
[06:46:06] <alex4nder-> er be
[06:52:53] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[06:54:25] <Loetmichel> taig is a mill like a drill press with xy-table?
[06:55:24] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[06:56:33] <Loetmichel> the setup i mean
[06:56:51] <Loetmichel> as in my little one but bigger?
[06:57:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12180
[06:58:42] <Loetmichel> then i would make a stand for it, build a coolant "tank" out of thin steel sheet welded watertight
[06:59:17] <Loetmichel> (height op to the table - 2 cm or so)
[06:59:57] <Loetmichel> and the rest with square steeel tube frame and some perspex
[07:01:12] <Loetmichel> and make the side walls removeable. So you can mount workpieces bigger than the enclosure ;-)
[07:01:51] <Loetmichel> (made the same error on mine, side walls of the "tank" to near...)
[07:02:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12494
[07:05:52] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: Yah, it's a bit bigger than that
[07:06:08] <alex4nder-> but not by much
[07:07:04] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: my plan is to build a sheet metal base 'tank', and then use aluminum extrusions to build a cabinet top on hinges
[07:07:11] <Loetmichel> alex4nder-: i just wanted to know if its a column or a gantry and so on
[07:07:17] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: column
[07:07:27] <alex4nder-> http://www.taigtools.com/Images/crmill1.JPG
[07:07:39] <JaegerBar> hey alex4nder, how's your CNC coming along?
[07:07:50] <alex4nder-> the inner box is going to be 24" deep, by 36" wide, by 32" tall
[07:08:03] <alex4nder-> JaegerBar: it's working.. just milling aluminum bar-stock right now, that I picked up at Osh
[07:08:09] <alex4nder-> I made a quick test clamp.
[07:08:19] <JaegerBar> videos yet?
[07:08:22] <alex4nder-> uh yah
[07:08:31] <Loetmichel> ah, i see. like the sieg x1 and similar
[07:08:37] <JaegerBar> send what you can...i wanna see you doing aluminum mainly
[07:08:57] <alex4nder-> JaegerBar: well there's not a lot to see.. if you look on youtube for taig, it's the same stuff
[07:10:29] <JaegerBar> well your garage is cleaner =p
[07:10:30] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAGpnWG8UDA <- I'm sketching out something like this, but with lighter weight extrusions, and a flip-top lid rather than a raising enclosure
[07:10:33] <JaegerBar> i liked your first video
[07:10:44] <JaegerBar> can i come visit you on my way back up north real quick alex?
[07:10:47] <alex4nder-> er raising screen
[07:11:37] <alex4nder-> JaegerBar: I'd love to show the taig off, but I'm super busy right now, and only working on it at the random hours I get a chance
[07:11:47] <alex4nder-> JaegerBar: don't you live near a techshop?
[07:11:51] <JaegerBar> no big deal. i'm a low pressure guy
[07:11:55] <JaegerBar> yeah i hate tech shop man
[07:11:58] <alex4nder-> why?
[07:12:03] <JaegerBar> you can only do aluminum and brass there
[07:12:40] <alex4nder-> you really want to do steel?
[07:13:21] <JaegerBar> well one of my key projects involves steel, so yes
[07:13:35] <JaegerBar> although i mention aluminum a lot because i do want to get started on aluminum as practice
[07:13:43] <JaegerBar> the techshop would be a good place to get started and learn
[07:13:50] <JaegerBar> but then again, i feel like it would be a waste as well
[07:14:05] <Loetmichel> HARHAR, in the bedroom ;-)
[07:14:12] <alex4nder-> I'm not milling any steel on my taig
[07:14:51] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: looks ok, but if you want to use coolant you better make the lower part watertight AND wider than the upper part
[07:15:42] <Loetmichel> so any coolant which will be shot to the upper housing will drop back inside the tank and not dripping on your carpet ;-)
[07:16:05] <alex4nder-> yah, I'm going to use a welded bottom tank, and have it be inside the edges
[07:16:26] <Loetmichel> OUTSIDE the edges!
[07:16:26] <alex4nder-> like 75mm tall around the edges, with a drain
[07:16:30] <JaegerBar> i can weld that for you alex
[07:16:31] <JaegerBar> i weld
[07:16:39] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: the enclosure inside the edges
[07:16:44] <alex4nder-> so there's a lip
[07:17:01] <alex4nder-> JaegerBar: thanks dude, but I've got a local shop building me one
[07:17:10] <JaegerBar> well let me hang with u foor a bit
[07:17:14] <JaegerBar> i wanna see what other stuff you do
[07:17:18] <JaegerBar> your car projects too
[07:18:09] <alex4nder-> which car projects?
[07:18:52] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: 80/20 is a company that makes aluminum extrusions that fit like legos, so I think I'll just do that, and have clear plastic planels that fit in between the extrusions
[07:18:54] <JaegerBar> i dunno i thought you were into cars haha
[07:18:57] <alex4nder-> I am
[07:19:09] <alex4nder-> but I haven't worked on any car projects in a while
[07:19:11] <alex4nder-> no time really
[07:19:16] <JaegerBar> i'd justt like to see what you do for hobby
[07:19:27] <Loetmichel> oh, shi*... lost the time... have to be in 10 minutes at the dentist... and still sitting here in my moring gown...
[07:19:27] <alex4nder-> haha
[07:19:33] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: good luck!
[07:19:34] <Loetmichel> <. hurrys up
[07:19:36] <JaegerBar> hahaha
[07:19:46] <JaegerBar> i hope you have no root canals
[07:19:48] <alex4nder-> JaegerBar: lately I just work
[07:21:12] <JaegerBar> what's your profession / career
[07:21:16] <JaegerBar> (may i ask?)
[07:21:19] <alex4nder-> computer engineer
[07:21:25] <JaegerBar> holy crap.....
[07:21:29] <mrsun> ssi, sweden
[07:21:33] <alex4nder-> mrsun: sup
[07:21:39] <JaegerBar> hey swede
[07:21:54] <mrsun> tired, was hoping i would get to sleep today but door on the freakin car is acting up so had to go out and help my gf ...
[07:24:05] <JaegerBar> must be really cold =P
[07:24:10] <mrsun> no
[07:24:17] <mrsun> -5 or so
[07:24:21] <mrsun> celcius
[07:24:43] <mrsun> the door hinge is a bit worn and i think its due to that that the door does what it does
[07:26:56] <JaegerBar> what kind of car is it?
[07:26:58] <JaegerBar> Volvo?
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[07:28:25] <JaegerBar> so alex4nder is there really no way i can come check out your setup and have you help me prototype something
[07:29:02] <alex4nder-> I'm just a bad person to ask, since I've got next to no machining experience and no real time in the shop during normal hours
[07:29:10] <alex4nder-> aren't you in SD?
[07:29:48] <JaegerBar> yes but i go up to the bay area a lot too
[07:30:01] <alex4nder-> isn't danimal_laptop| down there/
[07:30:12] <JaegerBar> i offended him =(
[07:30:15] <alex4nder-> he's the guy you should check out
[07:30:20] <alex4nder-> oh, that sucks
[07:30:28] <JaegerBar> i said his shop was low-profit
[07:30:34] <JaegerBar> i mean his business plan
[07:30:43] <alex4nder-> ah
[07:30:44] <JaegerBar> but i was just saying that to make him tell me the details
[07:30:59] <mrsun> JaegerBar, golf III
[07:31:02] <alex4nder-> yah, that's not a very good strategy for getting to people tell you stuff
[07:31:13] <alex4nder-> i.e. insulting them
[07:32:15] <JaegerBar> oh yeah VW makes a good car
[07:32:29] <JaegerBar> i wasn't really insulting him actually
[07:32:38] <JaegerBar> but he took it the wrong way
[07:33:07] <JaegerBar> i was just saying like "you sure there's any money in that with Sugino and a few other companies in the same business"
[07:33:43] <alex4nder-> ah
[07:34:24] <ssi> mrsun: heheh ah ok
[07:34:30] <JaegerBar> anyways yeah.....i'm really not an offensive guy
[07:34:30] <ssi> was hoping you were local and could teach me to scrape :)
[07:34:37] <JaegerBar> scrape what?
[07:34:42] <mrsun> ssi, hehe im a newb myself so =)
[07:34:53] <alex4nder-> ssi: you rebuilding a machine?
[07:35:02] <mrsun> but trying the best i can and i think the results are getting better =)
[07:35:34] <mrsun> as the table carry thingie on the mill now is down to sub 0.01mm in straightness for all surfaces =)
[07:49:34] <JaegerBar> alex4nder are you mainly a programmer at work?
[07:49:44] <alex4nder-> more or less
[07:50:11] <JaegerBar> is your company hiring?
[07:50:43] <alex4nder-> are you a computer engineer?
[07:50:49] <JaegerBar> electrical engineer
[07:50:58] <JaegerBar> but i took some programming courses, such as data structures
[07:51:02] <alex4nder-> ah
[07:51:13] <alex4nder-> well I'll let you know if anything comes up
[07:52:54] <JaegerBar> thanks
[07:53:13] <JaegerBar> i've been applying for jobs in SD and bay area but no luck so far
[07:53:13] <mrsun> sucks that its so hard to find instructional videos for scraping =)
[07:53:20] <JaegerBar> what's scraping?
[07:54:25] <Loetmichel> re from the dentist.
[07:54:44] <mrsun> hand scraping of machines, to correct the surfaces and make them better at retaining oil =)
[07:56:22] <Loetmichel> 30 minutes: one broken mercury filling out, a new one in... "dont eat the next 2h, see you next summer... as in summer 2012, not 15 jears like last time!"
[07:56:24] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[07:59:10] <JaegerBar> yay
[07:59:14] <JaegerBar> all over with
[08:00:47] <Loetmichel> yes
[08:03:58] <JaegerBar> yes get those mercury fillings OUT
[08:04:02] <JaegerBar> those are killing you slowly
[08:04:15] <JaegerBar> yet, faster than your smoke stack habit
[08:04:51] <Loetmichel> ahem... the new filling is mercury also
[08:05:11] <Loetmichel> just intact, not broken ;-)
[08:05:43] <JaegerBar> lol wtf
[08:05:48] <JaegerBar> those are illegal in some countries
[08:06:05] <JaegerBar> go with that new white epoxy
[08:06:12] <JaegerBar> it's stronger and looks better
[08:08:59] <mrsun> the plastic fillings lasts about 5 years compared to mercury fillings that last like 15 years
[08:09:01] <mrsun> :P
[08:09:16] <mrsun> according to a book i read at the dentists =)
[08:09:21] <JaegerBar> possibly true
[08:09:45] <mrsun> the pain i suffer every freakin time at the dentist i think that would be killing me faster then a mercury filling :P
[08:10:39] <Loetmichel> mrsun: now imagine a filling with drilling near the root canal and no painkillers. (i am allergic) ;-)
[08:10:49] <mrsun> Loetmichel, ough
[08:11:18] <mrsun> the worst i got was 7 injections before it was numb enough to get the drilling done
[08:11:41] <mrsun> scared like hell and aparently the stuff they use to numb you doesnt hit me as hard as others as i still can feel like everything
[08:12:13] <mrsun> and no wonder one gets scared when every time you go there it hurts like their trying to kill you :P
[08:12:21] * Loetmichel gets no injections. if the doc wont remember his CPR, that is ;-)
[08:13:03] <Loetmichel> (allergic shock to nearly all barbiturates)
[08:13:04] <mrsun> poor bastard =)
[08:13:14] <JaegerBar> i am allergic to many painkillers too
[08:13:20] <Loetmichel> you get used to it
[08:15:00] <Loetmichel> the best was a nurse in the OR " You are SO brave!" ... what options do i have? Pain or death... easy to choose...
[08:15:06] <mrsun> i find it facinating how you think that two pieces mate together fine, but if you blue one and move the other over you might have only like 1 - 5% of the surfaces actualy meeting =)
[08:15:27] <mrsun> Loetmichel, hehe :P
[08:15:37] <mrsun> death ...
[08:15:44] <Loetmichel> mrsun: if 2 surfaces are mating fine they will cling togehter like hell
[08:15:51] <Loetmichel> ... without oil in between ;-)
[08:17:08] <JaegerBar> i'm allergic to everything
[08:17:28] <JaegerBar> nuts, melons, perfumes, wheat, corn
[08:17:29] <JaegerBar> jesus
[08:17:55] <JaegerBar> i'm also allergic to morphine family of painkillers
[08:18:08] <JaegerBar> the only thing i can handle is probably laughing gas
[08:19:26] <Loetmichel> jeah, taht makes a hell of a hangover, though BTDT
[08:19:38] <JaegerBar> really?
[08:19:42] <JaegerBar> you've tried it?
[08:19:47] <Loetmichel> yes
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[08:19:54] <JaegerBar> laughing gas for a surgery?
[08:19:59] <Loetmichel> yes
[08:20:08] <JaegerBar> damn didn't realize it causes a nasty hangover
[08:20:25] <Loetmichel> got a 12" nail through my lower leg muscle...
[08:21:01] <Loetmichel> so i had to undergo some surgery
[08:22:06] <JaegerBar> 12"?
[08:22:12] <JaegerBar> so it went through your entire leg
[08:22:19] <Loetmichel> and the Doc wont do it without painkillers, so he knocked me out with N2o
[08:22:28] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: right
[08:22:46] <JaegerBar> yeah i'm gonna N20 when i have surgery
[08:22:50] <JaegerBar> beceause i'm allergic to everything
[08:23:07] <Loetmichel> i hat do dispose of some spare wood. kicked it in half, didnt see the nail
[08:23:15] <Loetmichel> got right though the muscle
[08:23:46] <JaegerBar> holy crap that's a HUGE NAIL
[08:24:58] <Loetmichel> it was.
[08:25:14] <Loetmichel> Pulled it out, walked about 2km to the hospital...
[08:26:06] <Loetmichel> in the ER: "Nurse, i think i have a problem..." $me pints down to the puddle of blood forming and then lights out
[08:26:16] <Loetmichel> points
[08:26:32] <JaegerBar> ?
[08:26:35] <Loetmichel> last thing i remember was the eyes of the nurs go BIG ;-)
[08:26:36] <JaegerBar> you fainted?
[08:26:39] <Loetmichel> yes
[08:26:45] <JaegerBar> due to loss of blood?
[08:26:51] <Loetmichel> blood los i presume
[08:26:54] <Loetmichel> loss
[08:27:49] <Loetmichel> i have 2 little circular scars to tell the tale ;-)
[08:27:54] <JaegerBar> picture?
[08:28:08] <JaegerBar> we almost lost you Dr. B =(
[08:28:12] <JaegerBar> be more careful next time
[08:31:59] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: no picture, and no, you dont. i am like these little critters: you stem on me and i STILL live to tell the tale... ;-)
[08:32:11] <JaegerBar> ROFL
[08:32:22] <JaegerBar> can i come visit you? maybe that luck will rub off on me
[08:33:18] <Loetmichel> step
[08:33:37] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: be careful with your wishes
[08:33:45] <Loetmichel> they could come true.
[08:34:10] <Loetmichel> and you dont want my "luck"... cause it oerates only in emergencys ;-)
[08:34:14] <Loetmichel> operates
[08:34:30] <JaegerBar> hahaha
[08:34:41] <JaegerBar> were you born in Denmark?
[08:39:13] <Loetmichel> no, in germany, why?
[08:43:38] <JaegerBar> nevermind
[08:43:42] <JaegerBar> nerv nicht!
[08:44:02] <JaegerBar> nerv nicht = don't bug me
[08:44:41] <Loetmichel> yes
[08:44:54] <JaegerBar> i'm learning deutsch now =)
[08:45:01] <Loetmichel> harhar
[08:45:43] <Loetmichel> the true translation would be: "dont get on my nerves!"
[08:45:51] <Loetmichel> but i think you get the meaning
[08:48:02] <JaegerBar> nerv mich nicht is nicer?
[08:48:14] <JaegerBar> the "mich" makes it less harsh?
[08:49:24] <Loetmichel> not really
[08:49:35] <Loetmichel> it makes it more personal
[08:50:07] <JaegerBar> holy crap
[08:50:13] <JaegerBar> mich = my?
[08:51:25] <Loetmichel> yes
[08:51:42] <Loetmichel> mich= me
[08:52:31] <Loetmichel> "dont 'nerve' ME" vs. "dont 'nerve'!"
[08:53:03] <Loetmichel> "nerv' nicht!" vs. "nerv' MICH nicht!"
[08:53:45] <Loetmichel> o, sorry, turn the latter one around ;-)
[08:54:00] -!- chester88 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[08:54:06] <JaegerBar> so 'NERV' is like a verb?
[08:54:29] <JaegerBar> i kept thinking it was like a noun
[08:54:45] <Loetmichel> yes
[08:55:26] <JaegerBar> i wonder why they call all the northern european languages "Germanic"
[08:55:45] <JaegerBar> when in reality, Deutsch was not necessarily the "original" language of the area
[08:56:21] <JaegerBar> in English we call the family of languages Germanic
[08:56:34] <JaegerBar> which makes you think German is the "root" language
[08:56:40] <JaegerBar> but that may not be the case actually
[08:57:28] <Loetmichel> "Nerven" is the nound for "nerves", but "nerven" can also be the verb of "to strain someones nerves"
[08:57:34] <Loetmichel> noun
[08:57:59] <Loetmichel> germanic isnt german
[08:58:10] <JaegerBar> ahh ok
[08:58:26] <JaegerBar> i don't know why we call it 'German' language in English
[08:58:33] <JaegerBar> we should just call it Deutsch
[08:58:36] <Loetmichel> gernamic is that what the OLD german "wild" tribes spoke
[08:58:50] <Loetmichel> they are called "germanen" in germany also
[08:59:00] <JaegerBar> modern Deutsch probably bears little resemblance to 'proto-germanic'
[08:59:23] <Loetmichel> maybe because the german tribes used to live in the area that is now germany?
[08:59:47] <Loetmichel> right, very little resemblance
[09:00:05] <JaegerBar> modern germans are probably the Romans that ran away from Rome
[09:00:21] <JaegerBar> you're probably Roman
[09:00:28] <Loetmichel> but if you want to go deeper with that you have to ask my wife. she studied german and english language for being a teacher
[09:00:41] <JaegerBar> oooooooo so she speaks really good english?
[09:00:46] <Loetmichel> yes
[09:01:00] <JaegerBar> frankfurt, btw, used to be a major roman city
[09:01:13] <JaegerBar> i would not be surprised if frankfurters are really italians
[09:01:24] <Loetmichel> yeah, but i thing i have more of the nordic tribes in my blood.
[09:01:33] <JaegerBar> possibly
[09:01:41] <Loetmichel> being blonde and white skinned and so ;-)
[09:01:51] <JaegerBar> oh if you're blonde haired....then yeah probably haha
[09:02:05] <JaegerBar> lol
[09:02:09] <Loetmichel> i was blonde
[09:02:29] <JaegerBar> oh no are you getting gray hair
[09:02:34] <JaegerBar> err white hair
[09:02:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2812 <- thats me about 15 years ago#
[09:02:55] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2835 <- that also
[09:02:57] <JaegerBar> burning a christmas tree?
[09:03:29] <Loetmichel> welding the decoration for a big mall
[09:03:35] <Loetmichel> christmas decoration
[09:03:47] <JaegerBar> can i visit you, and you teach me how to weld and machine better?
[09:03:52] <Loetmichel> no
[09:03:54] <JaegerBar> i pay you $500
[09:03:57] <Loetmichel> not enough time
[09:04:00] <JaegerBar> darn
[09:04:43] <Loetmichel> nowadays i look more like this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12325 ,-)
[09:05:00] <JaegerBar> do you still sport a ponytail
[09:05:06] <Loetmichel> no
[09:05:40] <JaegerBar> darn man!
[09:05:40] <Loetmichel> wasn the best hair to search for a new job after i quit at the Stage rental.
[09:05:43] <JaegerBar> grow it back out
[09:05:44] <Loetmichel> so i cut it
[09:05:50] <JaegerBar> lol i understand
[09:06:05] <Loetmichel> i dont think that will happen
[09:06:24] <Loetmichel> it lasted about 15 years to get the pony tail to THAT size...
[09:06:32] <JaegerBar> LOL
[09:06:47] <JaegerBar> yeah it's already too late for me to grow a ponytail
[09:07:30] <mrsun> from what i understand square threads has alot less friction then say acme or ordenary 60 degree threads, but arent they alot harder to get play adjustment on ? :)
[09:07:31] <Loetmichel> and as i am a Production manager now, i have to look at least a bit serious ;-)
[09:08:11] <JaegerBar> hey mrsun can i come visit you and you teach me machining and welding
[09:08:22] <mrsun> sigh, no =)
[09:08:23] <Loetmichel> mrsun: hmmm, to get the play out you will use two nuts, so i see no problem with square thread
[09:08:35] <Loetmichel> ... acme is the "trapezodial" thread?
[09:08:43] <mrsun> 29 degree
[09:08:55] <mrsun> i think its the trapezoidal :P
[09:09:24] <JaegerBar> mrsun, when you figure out what to buy, link me on that
[09:09:29] <Loetmichel> as in like this teeth: ___/--\____
[09:09:34] <JaegerBar> i would like to purchase the identically same product
[09:09:36] <mrsun> Loetmichel, yep
[09:09:56] <Loetmichel> opposed to ordinary thead which is more like ___/\____
[09:10:52] <Loetmichel> and square threat would be ___|---|____ i assume?
[09:11:30] <mrsun> yes
[09:11:51] <Loetmichel> then i see no problem to get the play out if you use two nuts
[09:12:17] <JaegerBar> why won't one nut work
[09:12:21] <Loetmichel> i used acme thread on my machines, but only because it is readily aviable here
[09:12:23] <mrsun> but i guess i would go with acme as its aparently easier to cut =)
[09:12:40] <mrsun> JaegerBar, cause of the play in the nuts
[09:12:42] <JaegerBar> what's acme? a thread style? or a brand?
[09:12:52] <Tom_itx> look it up
[09:12:53] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: you get the two nuts "countered" more or less to pull the play out
[09:12:54] <mrsun> thread style, trapezoidal
[09:13:39] <Loetmichel> the linear sleds i am bulinding right now are like this:
[09:13:50] <mrsun> ofc they arent that expensive to buy but hell, why buy when you can make :P
[09:14:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[09:14:44] <Loetmichel> and the two plates with ball bearings have one plastic nut each, which dan be turned against each other to sort the play out
[09:14:57] <JaegerBar> now i get it
[09:15:03] <JaegerBar> you can tighten it up with friction
[09:15:10] <JaegerBar> i mean, at the expense of friction
[09:15:19] <JaegerBar> it's a tradeoff
[09:15:23] <Loetmichel> yes. more or less
[09:15:38] <JaegerBar> if you have less play, you will need a stronger stepper motor to move it
[09:15:43] <mrsun> as backlash is a pita in cnc machining =)
[09:15:54] <mrsun> JaegerBar, yeap :/
[09:16:06] <mrsun> but with my stepper drivers i can upgrade my mill to quite large steppers :P
[09:16:10] <Loetmichel> but the resin i use there is infused with 10% "speckstein", so it doesent have much friction at all
[09:16:22] <Tom_itx> or a more precision ($$$) drive screw
[09:16:22] <Loetmichel> the resin for the nuts
[09:16:23] <JaegerBar> speckstein, nani kore?
[09:16:44] <Loetmichel> ah, talcum powder
[09:16:50] <JaegerBar> lol
[09:16:59] <mrsun> Tom_itx, ballscrews ? :P
[09:17:03] <mrsun> for wuzzies :P
[09:17:05] <Tom_itx> yes
[09:17:11] <Tom_itx> no
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[09:17:33] <mrsun> ok ok, i realy want ballscrews, but expensive :P
[09:17:41] <mrsun> ofc, upgrading the motors is also expensive =)
[09:19:07] <JaegerBar> not THAT expensive
[09:19:16] <JaegerBar> i see stepper motors cost about $30-59
[09:20:11] <mrsun> smaller ones yes
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[09:20:23] <mrsun> but with bigger im talking 8.5Nm+
[09:20:26] <Loetmichel> btw: got my little CNC runnung on AMC lately: http://www.cyrom.org/pce/emc_running_new_cpu2.avi ;-)
[09:20:28] <mrsun> the ones i have now is 1.85
[09:21:10] <mrsun> ofc, strength gives the tradeoff of speed from what i understand :/
[09:22:16] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: here is the slide runnung: http://www.cyrom.org/markusb/VID00028.AVI
[09:22:28] <Loetmichel> without any play
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[09:22:43] <Loetmichel> (ignore the chaos around, have to clean um my mess ;-)
[09:22:52] <JaegerBar> what's AMC?
[09:24:14] <Loetmichel> EMC
[09:24:32] <JaegerBar> what's the difference between EMC and EMC2
[09:24:37] <Loetmichel> grrrr
[09:24:39] <Loetmichel> EMC2
[09:24:49] <Loetmichel> normally i use PCNC-dos
[09:24:52] <JaegerBar> don't be mad, i'm just learning
[09:25:23] <Loetmichel> the old cpu for the machine as to slow for EMC2
[09:25:30] <Loetmichel> was
[09:26:33] <JaegerBar> cute
[09:26:43] <JaegerBar> now you just need to add the stepper motors
[09:27:01] <Loetmichel> the new one is a c2d with nearly 3 ghz ;-)
[09:27:26] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: and the other sled, and the gantry, and the x and z axis ;-)
[09:27:36] <Loetmichel> ... its a work in progress ;-)
[09:29:05] <JaegerBar> you can have my old core 2 duo
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[09:29:30] <JaegerBar> i really wish for you to make one for me
[09:29:36] <JaegerBar> but i guess you have ZERO time
[09:38:47] <Loetmichel> right
[09:43:20] <JaegerBar> i think you could make a lot of money at this Michel
[09:43:28] <Loetmichel> no
[09:43:30] <JaegerBar> if you could make little kits
[09:43:38] <JaegerBar> darn
[09:43:40] <JaegerBar> g'n8
[09:43:44] <Loetmichel> i am definetly no businnes man
[09:43:48] <JaegerBar> no?
[09:43:50] <Loetmichel> and no i have go to work!
[09:43:57] <Loetmichel> nwo
[09:44:01] <JaegerBar> again?
[09:44:22] <JaegerBar> alright enjoy your new filling of mercury
[09:44:24] <JaegerBar> later
[09:47:22] <mrsun> oh, the metric trapezoidal thread has 30 degrees not 29
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[10:32:42] <Loetmichel> re @ company
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[10:34:28] <Loetmichel> mrsun: i have bought the (rolled) TR10*3mm bars in 1 m lenght over here for about 10 eur in a local hardware store
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[13:59:28] <jdhNC> anyone using one PC for 2 or more machines? Too much hassle?
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[14:06:44] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: i have a PC for my miniCNC and for testing
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[14:06:54] <Loetmichel> but triple/quadrupleboot
[14:07:26] <Loetmichel> so one installation for the miniCNC and another complete install fpr testing pourposes
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[14:07:36] <Loetmichel> so i dont mangle my configfiles
[14:07:46] <Loetmichel> accidentally
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[14:13:09] <jdhNC> wonder if different users would be sufficient for that
[14:14:21] <jdhNC> I have a lathe next to my mill. A single monitor/kb/etc would make for better space utilization
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[14:17:42] <jdhNC> too bad you can't run emc2 on a gumstix
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[15:17:17] <mrsun> ough frekin chinese ..... how can you make something so freakin crooked
[15:18:00] <jdhNC> and why would you buy it?
[15:19:03] <mrsun> ok its not THAT bad, but over the length i have where ive scraped exactly 0 from end to end, but where they have plane ground it its 0.02 under
[15:19:03] <mrsun> in the center
[15:19:03] <mrsun> or if they have "planed" it with a belt sander :P
[15:19:33] <mrsun> Loetmichel, dont know what the heck people has for hardware stores, at my town they just look at you like your retarded and tell you that stuff doesnt exist :P
[15:19:45] <mrsun> jdhNC, didnt know better then :P
[15:21:23] <Loetmichel> mrsun: its a store which sells screws, nuts and tools for handyman, not for prvate use
[15:21:34] <Loetmichel> and its arond the corner from my home ;-)
[15:21:49] <mrsun> meh
[15:27:44] <mrsun> the ones on the mill is TR10*2 i guess its called then :P
[15:34:43] <Loetmichel> tr10*3
[15:34:50] <Loetmichel> is the one i used
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[15:54:02] <Mjolinor> can anyone suggest approximately what power I need in a spindle motor for doing PCBs and small engraving?
[15:54:28] <cradek> very very little
[15:54:33] <JT-Work> I use 7.5hp but it's too big and too slow
[15:54:36] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: depends
[15:54:38] <cradek> you need very high speed
[15:54:46] <Mjolinor> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KV3680-RC-Brushless-Motor-Align-Trex-450-V2-450SE-Heli-/400235240053?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d2fe11a75
[15:54:48] <Loetmichel> 100W can be sufficient if you have time
[15:54:54] <Mjolinor> was wondering about these aircraft motors for models
[15:55:05] <Loetmichel> 800W Brushless will be sufficient most of the time
[15:55:17] <ssi> I have a 180W brushless RC motor running an engraving spindle
[15:55:20] <ssi> works well
[15:55:22] <Mjolinor> htey start at about 30 watss adn go up to 500 or so for little money, PWM controllers are about 10$ or so
[15:55:25] <ssi> but it takes some special electronics to run
[15:55:48] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: you want to build something like this?
[15:55:49] <Mjolinor> good
[15:56:01] <cradek> also might consider air power if you have plenty of air available
[15:56:03] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11519
[15:56:34] <Mjolinor> that seems to be exactly what I had in mind
[15:56:36] <Mjolinor> sort of
[15:57:02] <Mjolinor> is that a planetary gear set?
[15:57:08] <Loetmichel> no
[15:57:15] <JT-Work> can those airplane motors run more than a few minutes before they melt without constant air flow?
[15:57:16] <Loetmichel> thats direct coupling
[15:57:48] <Mjolinor> the motor is the black bit, the aluminium thing is a no end float mounting thing?
[15:57:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10671
[15:58:03] <Mjolinor> with a small brass collett chuck on the front
[15:58:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10674
[15:58:20] <Mjolinor> perfect, send one here instantly :)
[15:58:24] <Loetmichel> hihi
[15:58:40] <Mjolinor> that is jsut so exactly what I need
[15:58:48] <Mjolinor> you shoudl feel guilty for having it when I need it
[15:58:58] <Mjolinor> hand it over
[15:59:07] <Loetmichel> the aluminium is just a std 43mm euromount like kress and other routers
[15:59:44] <Loetmichel> made it for a friend with a little gantry
[16:00:35] <Mjolinor> i wondered if those small motors woudl over heat, its a lot of power form soemthign the size of a grape
[16:01:00] <cpresser> btw: does anyone here need a kress-spindle? i have 2 spares which i want to sell.
[16:01:04] <Mjolinor> do you have any specifics about that particular motor?
[16:01:23] <Loetmichel> calculate about 50% maximum load for the motor and it will stay cool enough
[16:01:42] <Loetmichel> at 100% load it will overheat in about 2 minutes ;-)
[16:01:42] <Mjolinor> so maybe go with a 350 watt motor and run at about 200 max
[16:02:14] <Loetmichel> that particualr motor is a 205W outrunner with 960rpm/V idle speed
[16:02:24] <Mjolinor> ok, cheers
[16:02:32] <Loetmichel> and can run up to 25kRPM
[16:02:33] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[16:02:34] <Mjolinor> any idea wher ehte pin chuck came from?
[16:03:00] <Mjolinor> i just have one I robbed of a cheap dremmel thing, it seems OK ish and runs out by about 2 thou so it shoudl be OK
[16:03:08] <Loetmichel> that is a spare part for Proxxon IB-E or FBS230 multiotools
[16:03:14] <Mjolinor> ok
[16:03:31] <Loetmichel> costs about 9 eur and another 9 eur for the steel chucks
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[16:03:42] <Loetmichel> aehrm not chuck, its "spannzange"
[16:03:44] <Loetmichel> ...
[16:04:08] <Loetmichel> ah, collet chuck ;-)
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[16:04:45] <Mjolinor> its a big can of worms, there are 4000 hits on ebay for brushless dc motor and htey can get bloody expensive
[16:05:11] <Loetmichel> the proxxon part has the advantage of being ground to 8mm diameter, so std 8mm ball bearings are a tight fit
[16:05:34] <Loetmichel> hihi, this one is from hobbyking.com (china)
[16:05:42] <Loetmichel> it is about 20 eur
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[16:11:42] <ssi> http://p.twimg.com/Af_l9TICAAAXssT.jpg
[16:11:43] <ssi> that's mine
[16:12:07] <Mjolinor> hmm, that is taller than my whole machine
[16:12:30] <ssi> isit?
[16:12:35] <ssi> it's only 5" tall
[16:12:52] <Mjolinor> jsut about then, my lid would not close with that in :)
[16:12:59] <ssi> it's a 1/2"x5" shank ER16 chuck
[16:13:06] <ssi> mounted in a pair of bearings in a body I turnedi
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[17:26:29] <danimal_laptop|2> hi
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[17:30:42] Philosophy is now known as misfitsu
[17:32:29] <skunkworks_> danimal_laptop|2: get your trunion mounted and running?
[17:32:47] <danimal_laptop|2> gotta finish the machine it's going on first lol
[17:32:54] <skunkworks_> ;)
[17:32:58] <danimal_laptop|2> i do need it though, already got a job for it
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[17:43:05] <JaegerBar> morning
[17:44:27] <danimal_laptop|2> mornin
[17:45:36] <JaegerBar> how's the manufacturing coming along?
[17:45:56] <Loetmichel> re at home
[17:46:01] <JaegerBar> from sheet metal to anodizing?
[17:46:09] <JaegerBar> Hi Michael
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[17:47:58] <danimal_laptop|2> dude quit changing your nick
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[17:51:54] <Loetmichel> *AHHHHHH* man rate wo die benachrichtigungskarte ist... ZUHAUSE....
[17:52:01] <Loetmichel> hups...
[17:52:07] <Loetmichel> sorry wrong channel
[17:54:09] <JaegerBar> lol
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[18:07:19] <skunkworks_> anyone have an opinion on ruby on rails?
[18:07:56] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: i am waiting on a new spindle... from china.
[18:08:20] <jdhNC> skunkworks: it has a stupid name.
[18:08:46] <jdhNC> but not as stupid as groovy on grails
[18:09:10] <Loetmichel> first: packet was here in 2 days, then got taxed in hanau ( not far from here). then goes to LONDON?!? ... day later: "ups, wrong country, sending back" ...
[18:09:37] <ssi_> I really don't like ruby
[18:09:37] <Loetmichel> nex day: back in frankfurt. Goes to hanau AGAIN?
[18:10:05] <ssi_> and ruby on rails is a rapid prototyping framework... which is ok so long as you treat it as such
[18:10:12] <Loetmichel> then: "we delivered and misssed you" (sure, i have to work all day, nobody at home)
[18:10:26] <ssi_> in my experience, people tend to make these quick prototypes in rails, and then try to turn them into production systems
[18:10:29] <ssi_> and that's a bad plan
[18:11:00] <Loetmichel> so i grabbend the delivery failure card yesterday and drove 40 km(!) to the sorting place whre i could pick it up...
[18:11:49] <Loetmichel> waited half an hour to hear: 2the delivery driver got you the wrong card, there should have statet: pick up not until tomorrow!"
[18:12:09] <Crumpite> My system suddenly stopped working with this error message:Traceback (most recent call last):
[18:12:10] <Crumpite> File "/usr/bin/stepconf", line 1926, in on_jogplus_pressed
[18:12:10] <Crumpite> self.update_axis_params()
[18:12:10] <Crumpite> File "/usr/bin/stepconf", line 1915, in update_axis_params
[18:12:10] <Crumpite> halrun.flush()
[18:12:10] <Crumpite> IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
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[18:12:17] <skunkworks_> ssi_: thank you - that is the kind of thing I am looking for.
[18:12:19] <Loetmichel> "but we can arrange a second delivery to your workplace...."
[18:12:21] <Crumpite> Any ideas ?
[18:12:25] <Loetmichel> <- "make it so!"
[18:12:42] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:13:02] <Loetmichel> .. today: no delivery at my company, DHL system says: "delivered 15:00, nobody there"
[18:13:25] <Loetmichel> i come home, what is in the mailbox: a second delivery failure card...
[18:13:35] <Loetmichel> with the adress of my WORKPLACE?
[18:13:53] <Tom_itx> they must like you
[18:14:12] <IchGucksLive> DHL is cool but DPD is more B)
[18:14:14] <ssi_> skunkworks_: so you know where it's coming from, I'm a Sr Technical Architect for Turner Broadcasting System, I handle the digital properties for CNN.com, si.com, nascar.com, nba.com, ncaa.com, pga/pgatour.com, tbs, tnt, cartoon network, adult swim, and others
[18:14:23] <ssi_> skunkworks_: I deal with nothing but scalability day in and day out :)
[18:14:24] * Loetmichel was a LITTLE angry as i called the hotline from DHL express a few minutes ago...
[18:14:30] <Crumpite> they've started putting on temp help for the holidays, lots of delevery problems right now !
[18:14:41] <skunkworks_> ssi_: cool - thank you again
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[18:14:56] <ssi_> no prob
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[18:16:55] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel did you get to talk to a foreigner?
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[18:17:06] <Loetmichel> hmm?
[18:17:13] <Tom_itx> from DHL
[18:17:20] <Loetmichel> at the hotline?
[18:17:33] <Loetmichel> no, german girl. (sounded nice)
[18:17:52] <Loetmichel> ... so i was not as angry as planned with her ;-)
[18:19:02] <Loetmichel> ... dhl will deliver tomorro at my workplace ... 8:30 to 12:00... she assured me... or else i will shi* them on the counter!
[18:19:03] <skunkworks_> Crumpite: what version of emc are you running
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[18:20:11] <skunkworks_> Crumpite: http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg13990.html
[18:20:46] <Crumpite> just a sec, skunkworks...
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[18:22:08] <Crumpite> I can't even get emc to run to find my version, thou it's likely the latest...
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[18:23:28] <Crumpite> ok, i'll check my parallel port card, thanks !
[18:24:53] <skunkworks_> Crumpite: I would do a few google searches on that error.. I came back with a ton of different pages
[18:25:13] <skunkworks_> you might want to also post it on the mailing list.
[18:25:16] <skunkworks_> (or forum_
[18:26:18] <Crumpite> i must have done something wrong, as i didn't get any hits on the error message. i'll do better search and check.
[18:27:07] <skunkworks_> I just did a search for 'emc IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe'
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[18:33:22] <archivist> ssi_, just seen your instant bio, Ive just been kicking a noob on another list for regexp on a csv file for a web access!
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[18:47:02] <andypugh> Will tkemc jog angular axes? As far as I can see so far the answer is "no"
[18:49:21] <cradek> I'd be surprised to learn that
[18:49:53] <awallin> tkemc == the blue thing with big yellow numbers? those were the days...
[18:51:53] <andypugh> I have a config with only two angular axes, and tkemc won't jog them unless I make them linear.
[18:52:37] <andypugh> This is a complex kins config, but changing to trivkins does not change the behaviour. However, changing the axes to linear does.
[18:53:21] <andypugh> A supplementary question is whether the [AXIS] sections describe the axes or the joints. I imagine that they are joint types and limits?
[18:53:43] <cradek> how do you "make them linear"?
[18:54:11] <andypugh> By replcing "ANGULAR" with "LINEAR" in the INI file.
[18:54:25] <cradek> I'm surprised to learn that does anything :-)
[18:55:25] <andypugh> I guess it switches which speed limit governs the joint. It may be that tkemc sets the angular speed to zero unless it sees A B or C
[18:55:53] <cradek> tkemc might be looking for something in your ini that's not there. I dunno.
[18:56:17] <andypugh> I certainly see little harm in setting them to LINEAR when the real kinematics is active.
[18:56:23] <cradek> it was the only UI long after we grew rotary axes
[18:57:04] <andypugh> But it took me a long time to burrow down to the problem being unrelated to the kinematics (which is also broken, in an unrelated way)
[19:02:37] <andypugh> I should point out that, once again, this is not my config.
[19:02:39] <ssi_> archivist: :D
[19:03:46] <danimal_laptop|2> andypugh: get your magnets yet?
[19:03:58] <ssi_> new start capacitor did NOT fix my motor :(
[19:04:02] <ssi_> I guess I need to go visit the motor man today
[19:04:05] <andypugh> I have had the magnets for a while.
[19:04:20] <danimal_laptop|2> did it work as expected?
[19:04:22] <andypugh> I made the jig for holding them in place last night.
[19:04:27] <danimal_laptop|2> ah
[19:04:49] <archivist> ssi_, does it have a centrifugal switch, if so not releasing when getting up to speed
[19:05:21] <andypugh> Waiting for the steel to make the bell with. I have the aluminium, then realised that the reason the aero-modelling guys use aluminium and a flux ring is that they care about weight, and I don't.
[19:05:50] <andypugh> archivist: I think he checked the switch. Well, I hope he did before spending money on a capacitator.
[19:06:42] <ssi_> archivist: it does have a centrifugal switch.. I've had the back off it, and everything SEEMS normal with it, but I'm not really sure how else to check
[19:06:46] <archivist> Ive had them fail to contact too, hums, blows fuses and no turning
[19:07:07] <ssi_> also, when it quits you can hear it spin down, and you can hear the switch throw back in after a few seconds
[19:07:38] <ssi_> this one does spin up, it just sounds like it's dying, and then the thermal cutout trips
[19:07:54] <archivist> sick then
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[19:17:59] <jdhNC> have you tried starting it by hand?
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[19:49:38] <JaegerBar> that stinks Loetmichel
[19:55:10] <Loetmichel> it does
[19:55:28] <JaegerBar> at least you got the joy of driving 40km and listening to the radio
[19:55:38] <JaegerBar> although i'm not sure the traffic was favorable
[19:56:05] <Loetmichel> 80km
[19:56:39] <Loetmichel> traffic was ok, it was late in the evening, rush hour was gone
[19:56:51] <JaegerBar> what time?
[19:56:57] <JaegerBar> did you leave?
[19:57:12] <Loetmichel> on the highway, speed control set to 1230, cruise...
[19:57:29] <Loetmichel> i was at about 20:00 there
[19:57:46] <Loetmichel> so i drove off at home at about 19:20
[19:58:10] <Loetmichel> i meant speedcontrol set to 130 kmh
[19:58:30] <JaegerBar> hahaha
[19:58:35] <JaegerBar> do you drive on the autobahn
[19:58:40] <Loetmichel> sure ;-)
[20:00:56] <Loetmichel> 130 is the speed whre the car only guzzles 5-6liters diesel /100km
[20:00:59] <andypugh> 1230kmh is legal on some stretches of Autobahn, but probably not wise.
[20:01:23] <Loetmichel> at 200 it guzzles more like 12 to 16 liters ;-)
[20:01:56] <Loetmichel> andypugh: not wise for breaking path greater than headlight range, right ;-)
[20:02:07] <andypugh> Indeed.
[20:02:14] <JaegerBar> you have a diesel car?
[20:02:20] <Loetmichel> jes
[20:02:22] <Loetmichel> yes
[20:02:30] <JaegerBar> 4 cylinder 1.8L volkswagen?
[20:02:49] <andypugh> Slightly more than half the new cars sold in Germany are Diesel, I think.
[20:02:53] <Loetmichel> 6 cyl 2,5 liter turbo diesel Opel Omega caravan
[20:03:28] <JaegerBar> wow that's powerful
[20:03:34] <Loetmichel> andypugh: less now, as the diesel prices are up and the Particle filters needed for driving inner cities are expensive
[20:03:48] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: only about 150hp
[20:04:01] <andypugh> The particulate filter ought to last the life of the car.
[20:04:02] <JaegerBar> yeah but it produces a lot of torque at low RPM
[20:04:14] <Loetmichel> but down from 2000 RPM (when the turbo kicks in) up to 6000 rpm ;-)
[20:04:40] <JaegerBar> Diesel turbos make no sense to me
[20:04:47] <JaegerBar> they take away the low end torque which is nice to have
[20:05:10] <andypugh> Typical diesel torque curve hits peak torque at 1750 and then is totally flat until 4000
[20:05:11] <Loetmichel> its an automatic, so no worries about low end torque
[20:05:41] <Loetmichel> but a t cruise speet 130 the car is in the fifth gear and at about 1800 rpm... ;-)
[20:06:15] <Loetmichel> and it has load space like a small van ;-)
[20:06:29] <andypugh> The one I am working on hits 400Nm (295 lb.ft) at 1750, and holds it to 3800.
[20:06:46] <andypugh> And that's only a 2.0 l turbot.
[20:06:51] <JaegerBar> wow
[20:06:54] <JaegerBar> guess i don't understand how it works
[20:08:01] <Loetmichel> 10kW/150PS, and 300Nm between 1750 - 3500 upm
[20:08:12] <andypugh> I forced some of my American colleagues to drive one of our cars. They were rather impressed I think. Amazingly, despite being senior managers at Ford, they had never driven one.
[20:08:31] <JaegerBar> what kind of car?
[20:08:31] <Loetmichel> harhar ;-)
[20:08:33] <JaegerBar> Rover?
[20:08:52] <Loetmichel> 110kw
[20:08:53] <andypugh> I think the clue was "colleagues" and "Ford" :-)
[20:09:05] <JaegerBar> Jaguar?
[20:09:09] <JaegerBar> Ford owns Jaguar right?
[20:09:14] <andypugh> Not any more.
[20:09:24] <JaegerBar> Ford owns Volvo and Mazda
[20:09:43] <Loetmichel> really?
[20:09:57] <andypugh> Not volvo any more either. And less than half of Mazda
[20:09:57] <Loetmichel> a japanese car is owned by a maerican company?
[20:10:06] <JaegerBar> seriously......damn i'm behind on this
[20:10:13] <andypugh> JaegerBar: The car was one of these: http://www.ford.co.uk/focus
[20:10:26] <Loetmichel> ah, focus... the little one ;-)
[20:10:36] <JaegerBar> piece of junk
[20:10:42] <JaegerBar> but it's similar to a Mazda 3
[20:11:03] <andypugh> JaegerBar: No, this is the new one that you don't have yet.
[20:11:29] <Loetmichel> andypugh: my dreamcar as a child was a ford granada ghia caravan... with the engine of the mustang with roots ... ;-)
[20:11:52] <andypugh> Fortunately dreams rarely come true :-)
[20:12:32] <Loetmichel> a friend of my pa had one... drove like a rocket but looed like a can of thrash, rusty, lazy paintshop, dark windows....
[20:12:50] <Loetmichel> looked
[20:12:52] <JaegerBar> when they make a 1.3L Diesel Focus hybrid-electric that gets 65 miles per gallon lemme know
[20:13:11] <Loetmichel> 65 miles per gallon?
[20:13:20] <Loetmichel> who needs a hybrid for this?
[20:13:37] <JaegerBar> hybrid is great because it shuts off in city traffic
[20:13:48] <JaegerBar> don't be silly, hybrid is a great idea
[20:13:54] <JaegerBar> it's the way of the future
[20:14:15] <Loetmichel> hybrid IS great, but like opel does it with the ampera.
[20:14:23] <JaegerBar> ampera?
[20:14:38] <Loetmichel> electrical powertrain and a little engine+ genrator to extend the range of the Batteries
[20:14:40] <andypugh> You don't need a hybrid to get 65mpg. The pure-diesel focus does that.
[20:14:50] <jdhNC> Wes was not working on a natl Geo piece. He was diving a RB he was not certified on, with zero bailout.
[20:14:58] <jdhNC> <urk>
[20:15:17] <Loetmichel> ... adds up to a astonishing 200mpg ;-)
[20:15:40] <andypugh> The 2.0l that I had the Americans drive was showing 58mpg on the trip computer, and that has only been used locally and for test work.
[20:15:48] <JaegerBar> holy crap 200 mpg?
[20:16:05] <JaegerBar> Andy, can you get me a job at Ford
[20:16:13] <JaegerBar> i'm a smart guy, just no expertise
[20:16:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.opel.de/fahrzeuge/modelle/personenwagen/ampera/spezifikationen/antriebssystem.html
[20:16:17] <andypugh> We are hiring, I think.
[20:16:24] <JaegerBar> do i have to come to england
[20:16:28] <Loetmichel> Kraftstoffverbrauch in l/100 km gemäß VO (EG) Nr. 715/2007 (vorläufiger Wert), gewichtet
[20:16:28] <Loetmichel>
[20:16:28] <Loetmichel> 1,2
[20:16:39] <Loetmichel> 1,2 liters / 100km
[20:16:44] <Loetmichel> is roughly 200mpg
[20:16:56] <andypugh> JaegerBar: No, they probably have openings in the US>
[20:17:34] <JaegerBar> that's insane
[20:17:43] <andypugh> JaegerBar: http://corporate.ford.com/careers
[20:18:20] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: for a 1,7 ton car!
[20:18:21] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:20:32] <Loetmichel> andypugh: my diesel isnt THAT good, but CAN be driven really economical:
[20:21:13] <andypugh> Job like mine JaegerBar : https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWEbHost/jobdetails.aspx?SID=^o4OsTgQ21QZIZqVPX3jLjhVTyrjgpQEf3wAdsOd27nApqhOgVBSTjRESfTpplio0&type=search
[20:21:30] <andypugh> Hmm, let me tinyurl that
[20:21:34] <JaegerBar> Andy, please tell me the training you went through to become a controls system expert
[20:21:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12463
[20:21:52] <andypugh> None, I just applied for the job.
[20:22:18] <andypugh> (though I was already on-site as a contractor in NVH. Though I had no experience there either.
[20:22:28] <Loetmichel> i even had it down to 6,0 liters long range on the autobahn
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[20:25:18] <andypugh> JaegerBar: Try this URL: http://bit.ly/uMXMIZ
[20:25:26] <Loetmichel> ... but it CAN be a little more i one drive more in the city: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11855&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[20:25:33] <andypugh> Job 528BR would be my job spec.
[20:26:13] <Loetmichel> btw: this car is build in 2003!
[20:26:59] <andypugh> JaegerBar: The HIL (Hardware in the Loop) job might be interesting.
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[20:31:05] <Danimal_garage> heh, perfect timing on ordering the new touch screen, my monitor just crapped out i think
[20:31:23] <Loetmichel> Danimal_garage: touch screen?
[20:31:24] <Danimal_garage> it's half dark, i think the backlight is going out
[20:31:26] <Loetmichel> monitor?
[20:31:29] <Danimal_garage> yea
[20:31:47] <Loetmichel> you mean: std LCD with touch panel per usb?
[20:31:56] <Loetmichel> for PC?
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[20:32:29] <JaegerBar> andypugh just paste me the job
[20:32:36] <JaegerBar> i mean, like printscreen that sucker
[20:32:55] <andypugh> JaegerBar: I can't get the URLs to work.
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[20:33:08] <andypugh> But the bit.ly link should work.
[20:33:10] <Loetmichel> hmm, nice idea... makes the search for the mouse under the mpountains of chips unnecessary ;-)
[20:33:11] <JaegerBar> what did you put on your resume to get the job?
[20:33:20] <JaegerBar> what experience in controls did you already have?
[20:33:38] <Danimal_garage> yes Loetmichel
[20:33:52] <andypugh> I didn't have any controls experience, but I drifted in from elsewhere in the company.
[20:34:02] <Danimal_garage> hmm, it's getting better, just flickering now. m,aybe the cold was messing with it
[20:34:25] <Danimal_garage> it's been in the low 50's at night in here i'd imagine
[20:34:43] <JaegerBar> damn you just happened upon a cool job
[20:34:55] * Loetmichel is still fascinated of the idea of a "handcontrol" made of a 100$ china 7" tablet with android and a sillicon sleeve to make it coolant-sealed ;-)
[20:35:31] <andypugh> The thing is, there is a real shortage of Calibration engineers, so they can only get folk with all that they ask by poaching from other companies. (I think part of this is because the title "Calibration Engineer" sounds so boring, and hasn't been relevant since they stopped tuning injectors with screwdrivers)
[20:36:28] <JaegerBar> you mean "Controls Engineer"? because that's what req ID 528BR is called
[20:36:36] <syyl_> no haptic feedback from touchscreen buttons, and that on a machine control device? Oo
[20:37:01] <JaegerBar> but did you mention on your resume that you had controls and microcontroller experience?
[20:37:17] <JaegerBar> did you say any keywords like "PID control loop"
[20:37:45] <JaegerBar> i realize you didn't have any controls experience, but did you mention something like that on your resume to attract attention
[20:38:02] <JaegerBar> or did you aggrandize your talent
[20:38:12] <Loetmichel> ... but i dont have the experiende as a programmer to do the app or the interfaceing with emc .
[20:38:18] <Loetmichel> experience
[20:38:30] <JaegerBar> i can help you program =)
[20:38:41] <JaegerBar> i suck at DSP but am good with general purpose coding
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[20:39:56] <Danimal_garage> somebody broke into my garage and stole all my 3/16" allen wrenches
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[20:41:40] <Loetmichel> Danimal_garage: sure?
[20:41:53] <Loetmichel> i think there must be a little "ironeater"
[20:41:55] <andypugh> JaegerBar: It's complicated, I came to Ford after 10 years postdoc research and 5 years as a mechanical design engineer. I think they just wanted to see what they could so with someone who could do skin grafts, write code and use a lather.
[20:42:08] <JaegerBar> it wasn't me Danimal
[20:42:14] <Loetmichel> cause i am missing all my 10mm wrenches
[20:42:15] <JaegerBar> but i'd love to still viisit your garage
[20:42:18] <andypugh> (but, who can't type "lathe")
[20:42:38] <JaegerBar> andy do you have a PhD currently?
[20:42:41] <Loetmichel> whats a skin graft?
[20:43:18] <JaegerBar> skin graft = skin (dermis) replacement and regrowth
[20:44:01] <JaegerBar> after someone gets burned for instance
[20:44:13] <Loetmichel> ah, so andypugh is a Dr.Med?
[20:44:37] <JaegerBar> i have almost have a Masters in electrical engineering
[20:44:47] <JaegerBar> but the req says it prefers a PhD in MechE or ElecE
[20:45:25] <Danimal_garage> i have a phd in BS
[20:45:25] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: i have no degree at all , not even a college.
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[20:45:44] <Loetmichel> ind i am Production manager in a military computer company ;-)
[20:45:48] <Loetmichel> so what
[20:45:59] <Danimal_garage> same here Loetmichel. born and bred machinist
[20:46:04] <JaegerBar> Danimal, can i please visit you sometime
[20:46:14] <JaegerBar> i'm really worried i got on your bad side
[20:46:15] <Danimal_garage> been doing it for almost 15 years
[20:46:38] <JaegerBar> i wish i could've gone through life without having a stupid degree
[20:46:42] <JaegerBar> it didn't make me any smarter
[20:46:51] <Loetmichel> Danimal_garage: BUT i can tell our Dr.Ing EE where to look for the /%§"/$" signal that spoils the Tempest certification
[20:47:01] <jdhNC> doesn't have to make you smarter
[20:47:05] <Loetmichel> and i am right more times than i am wronng ;-)
[20:47:05] <Danimal_garage> you're not on my bad side, just quit asking, it gets annoying
[20:47:10] <jdhNC> just fills in a checkbox
[20:47:38] <Danimal_garage> and an education is never a bad thing provided you didn't pay more for it than it's worth
[20:47:53] <JaegerBar> I will quit, then. Sorry for being annoying. I'm not the type to quit easily, sometimes it's perceived as annoying, but I have to be that way to compete in life. =)
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[20:50:06] <Loetmichel> Danimal_garage: right. but education on paper means not much. I know enough Masters and bachelors who have NO idea what they are doing and also some "minimum school" "rednecks" which more knowledge in a little finger than me in my entire brain ;-)
[20:50:34] <Loetmichel> (and thats plenty!)
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[20:52:53] <andypugh> FWIW I have a PhD in materials science, the skin graft fork was on the materials properties of grafts (ie, why they pull tight)
[20:53:25] <Loetmichel> ah i see
[20:53:32] <andypugh> I went from studying welds in nuclear pressure vessels to studying skin. I like a bit of variety :-)
[20:53:48] <Loetmichel> not really
[20:54:01] <JaegerBar> Andy, are there any guys doing your job that don't have a PhD?
[20:54:08] <andypugh> Would it help if I didn't type "work" as "fork"?
[20:54:14] <Loetmichel> i think both must operate under a set of more or less harsh enviroment ;-)
[20:54:32] <jdhNC> I inspect welds that go in nuclear pressure vessels.
[20:54:36] <andypugh> JaegerBar: Yes, only about half have a PhD. Some have no degree at all.
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[20:56:47] <Loetmichel> hmmm, nuclear pressure vessels... you have heard of the protests in germany for transporting the nuclear waste in "castor" vessels to the deposit facility?
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[20:57:39] <Loetmichel> i think i would like one iof these castors beneath my garden... 20 feet. that is 50kw of thermal energy for the next 10 decades or so
[20:57:57] <JaegerBar> Andy, do some homework for me.....see if the guys doing the same job in Dearborn MIchigan have PhDs or not
[20:58:00] <Loetmichel> put a Stirling on it an some heat exchanger...
[20:58:08] <JaegerBar> find out about your colleagues in the US for me if you can
[20:58:23] <Loetmichel> ... voilla: no energy cost EVER again ;-)
[20:58:33] <JaegerBar> By the way, I am a materials scientist too at the moment
[20:58:43] <JaegerBar> I study thermoelectric materials
[20:59:15] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: linke the NiCrNi elements in type K sensors?
[20:59:25] <JaegerBar> well, no
[20:59:28] <Loetmichel> but more sophisticated i hope ,)
[20:59:30] <JaegerBar> i know what those are though
[20:59:41] <JaegerBar> well yeah i mean right onw thermoelectrics are just thermocouples
[20:59:46] <JaegerBar> but that won't always be the case
[21:00:12] <Loetmichel> hmm, arent the Peltier elements on Si-base?
[21:02:06] <Loetmichel> i KNOW one can use a Peltier as a thermogenerator as well as a heat transport device, because i have tested both
[21:02:37] <Loetmichel> but the power ratio as generator is very poor.
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[21:02:59] <JaegerBar> yes peltier is a great thermogenerator
[21:03:05] <JaegerBar> it's more efficient than just resistive heating
[21:03:41] <JaegerBar> yes Peltier as a power generator (from heat gradients) is terrible now
[21:03:51] <JaegerBar> in theory we should be able to get much better but nobody has figured it out yet
[21:04:06] <JaegerBar> why? because we still suck at quantum mechanical simulations
[21:04:32] <JaegerBar> if only those great scientists such as Max Planck and Lord Kelvin were still alive
[21:04:35] <Loetmichel> i needed about three tea candles and a heatsink on the hot side of the peltier and an even bigger heatsink with fan on the cold side of a 12V 6A peltier (40mm square) to get about 3V 1,2A out of it
[21:05:39] <danimal3> i tried the peltier route to chill my anodizing line. seemed pricy and inefficient
[21:05:57] <danimal3> i'm back to freon
[21:07:21] <Loetmichel> danimal3; the other way round
[21:07:47] <Loetmichel> heat one side of a peltier,cool the other and get ( a bit) electrical power out.
[21:07:52] <JaegerBar> yeah a Peltier sucks man
[21:08:04] <danimal3> Loetmichel: they are used for cooling as well
[21:08:14] <JaegerBar> it's pointless to waste our time getting power out of those buggers unless we are dealing with high heat densities
[21:08:19] <Loetmichel> danimal3: i know. i just said that ;-)
[21:08:24] <JaegerBar> and large heat gradients
[21:08:52] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: they have ONE advantage: no moving parts, virtually no decay
[21:09:00] <JaegerBar> that's true
[21:09:07] <danimal3> JaegerBar: how about putting them on the exhaust of a vehicle to ditch or reduce the need for an alternator?
[21:09:09] <JaegerBar> they do decay though
[21:09:18] <danimal3> plenty of free heat there
[21:09:18] <JaegerBar> if you use them nonstop they last about a year
[21:09:22] <JaegerBar> even the soviet made ones
[21:09:23] <Loetmichel> danimal3: is already done
[21:09:31] <JaegerBar> and russians still make the best ones for some reason
[21:09:32] <Loetmichel> the new merc does this ;-)
[21:09:35] <danimal3> it is? damn
[21:09:52] <JaegerBar> Yeah you can definitely do that but it's gonna cost you
[21:10:00] <JaegerBar> it depends how much you need from your alternator Danimal
[21:10:06] <Loetmichel> it uses waste heat from the exhaust and cooling to charge the batteries
[21:10:07] <JaegerBar> i mean, how much power you want to get out
[21:10:16] <JaegerBar> if you're just running your radio that shouldn't be too bad
[21:10:28] <danimal3> most are in the 120a range
[21:10:37] <JaegerBar> how many volts?
[21:10:41] <danimal3> 14
[21:10:44] <danimal3> ish
[21:11:11] <danimal3> i think that's peak current, i have no idea how they rate alts
[21:12:30] <JaegerBar> well i'm sure 99% of the time it's only charging with about 1 amp
[21:12:51] <JaegerBar> Yeah Danimal I bet you I could make a nice system for you if you want
[21:12:51] <Loetmichel> danimal3: i've read somewhre taht the new s-klasse hybrid has thermocouples on the exhaust to charge the batterys
[21:13:12] <JaegerBar> I might even be able to get some free Peltiers from this guy i know who sends out samples for his company
[21:13:23] <danimal3> cool
[21:13:27] <Loetmichel> only about some 100Watts, but like we in germany say: "steady drip makes a hole in the stone!"
[21:13:54] <danimal3> i dont really want to rig up my car, but it was an idea. i wonder what it would save in gas
[21:14:04] <JaegerBar> it would save a lot
[21:14:15] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: i dont think so
[21:14:17] <JaegerBar> i tried driving my volvo for a while without power steering and disconnected the alternator
[21:14:29] <JaegerBar> it got almost 40mpg instead of 30
[21:14:37] <Loetmichel> the exhaust carries about 20-30 % of the gasoline energy.
[21:14:43] <danimal3> volvo alternators don't work from the factory
[21:15:03] <danimal3> my car has electric power steering
[21:15:04] <Loetmichel> and the peltiers as gernartos have about 4% eta
[21:15:33] <Loetmichel> so there will be a maximum of about 10% or so savings in gas
[21:15:37] <Loetmichel> in a hybrid
[21:15:39] <JaegerBar> probably 2.5% to 2.8%
[21:15:50] <JaegerBar> unless of course i'm wrong
[21:16:01] <JaegerBar> 4% is probably true considering how hot the exhaust is
[21:16:09] <JaegerBar> if it's like 200C, then yeah
[21:16:16] <JaegerBar> and the ambient is 25C
[21:16:17] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: i trust your numbers more than mine, mine are pulled from my guts ;-)
[21:16:35] <JaegerBar> 4% is possibly with 175C difference in temp
[21:17:24] <Loetmichel> 200k difference should be possible
[21:17:32] <andypugh> Exhaust is around 300C, and pushes up to 600C during DPF regeneration.
[21:17:40] <Loetmichel> the exhaust is about 600°c whren it leaves the engine...
[21:17:53] <Loetmichel> andypugh: where?
[21:18:02] <andypugh> Pre-DPF.
[21:18:24] <andypugh> That's with post-injection on, specifically to regenerate the DPF
[21:18:35] <danimal3> i wonder if the cats would work properly or if the peltiers would suck up too much heat
[21:18:53] <Loetmichel> oh, next number i misestimated ;-)
[21:19:30] <JaegerBar> i hear Diesels can generate 300C
[21:19:42] <JaegerBar> but no way can you get 600C connected to a Peltier
[21:20:03] <JaegerBar> what's DPF?
[21:20:08] <JaegerBar> particulate filter?
[21:20:11] <JaegerBar> i'm confused
[21:20:14] <Loetmichel> diesel particle filter
[21:20:25] <andypugh> Pre-turbo the struggle is to keep the exhaust <800 so that the turbo remains in the solid phase.
[21:20:48] <Loetmichel> oh, so i AM right
[21:21:02] <JaegerBar> so what does DPF stand for again?
[21:21:14] <Loetmichel> [22:20:02] <Loetmichel> diesel particle filter
[21:21:25] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Yes.
[21:21:37] <andypugh> Though the turbo extracts a lot of heat from the exhaust
[21:22:01] <Loetmichel> i could remeber helping a friend turbocharge a BMW k100 (motorcycle)
[21:22:22] <JaegerBar> Turbo is a dumb idea when it can be operated electrically and not interfere with aspiration so much
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[21:22:52] <danimal3> if that were the case, electric superchargers would be a bit more popular
[21:22:58] <Loetmichel> ... and the (ceramic) turbo got a good red glow on the outside if the motorcycly was driven a wile above 250kmh ;-)
[21:23:14] <danimal3> and they're pretty efficent at this point, not much lag anymore
[21:24:06] <danimal3> the amount of power it would take to create the cfm and psi needed for forced induction is pretty high i would think.
[21:24:09] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: an electrical turbocharger would eat SO much power that the battery would be empti in 5 minutes tops
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[21:24:34] <Loetmichel> empty
[21:24:36] <JaegerBar> really?
[21:24:42] <Loetmichel> really
[21:24:43] <JaegerBar> how much power does it take to spin a little fan
[21:24:53] <danimal3> a little fan?
[21:24:55] <JaegerBar> (the same power as my RC car takes)
[21:25:06] <JaegerBar> 100 watts?
[21:25:11] <danimal3> it's not a little fan, it's a high cfm compressor
[21:25:12] <JaegerBar> at the most
[21:25:15] <Loetmichel> the "little" fan would fill your copresser tank in about 1 second to 8 bar i suppose
[21:25:17] <JaegerBar> oh really?
[21:25:41] <danimal3> you have any idea how fast a turbo spins?
[21:25:41] <ssi_> yea turbos put out a crapton of air
[21:26:29] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: just think about it: a normal 2 liters engine needs about 2 liters air per rev. 5000 rpm... 0,8 bar charger pressure...
[21:27:18] <Loetmichel> makes about 18 cubic meteres air per minute pressurized to 0.8 bar...
[21:27:19] <archivist> 2 smoke or 4 smoke
[21:27:28] <danimal3> superchargers consume about half as much power as they create, IIRC. So a supercharger that creates 200hp is takes 100hp to run, so the only gain you'd see over a non supercharged engine is 100hp
[21:27:45] <Loetmichel> to get an idea how much power is needed there
[21:28:09] <Loetmichel> danimal3: good example
[21:28:25] <danimal3> JaegerBar: go throw a leaf blower in your intake and see if it helps
[21:28:35] <danimal3> :)
[21:28:40] <Loetmichel> danimal3: HARHAR
[21:29:14] <Loetmichel> danimal3: i did something like tins as a child.
[21:29:27] <danimal3> haha
[21:29:42] <danimal3> i've seen idiots on youtube try computer fans before
[21:29:54] <Loetmichel> i got my first "mofa" ( little 2 stroke motorcycla, 50ccm, 25kmh max)
[21:30:05] <danimal3> im sure that does nothing but hurt velocity
[21:30:31] <Loetmichel> dismantled the carburetor, put a blower from a car heater in between it and the motor...
[21:30:37] <danimal3> haha
[21:30:40] <danimal3> nice
[21:30:46] <Loetmichel> voila: turbocharged cycle
[21:30:48] <andypugh> Electric turbochargers have been developed, but the main aim is to get them spinning a bit faster. But the ones I have seen mainly aim to be an alternative to the alternator at high engine speeds, ie an exhaust-driven generator. It's a horribly hot place for a motor though.
[21:31:01] <Loetmichel> with a screaming 15kRPM engine under it ;-)
[21:31:12] <Loetmichel> ... and about 10 minutes to a dead battery
[21:31:36] <JaegerBar> oh c'mon
[21:31:40] <JaegerBar> if you just want a mild turbo boost
[21:31:40] <Loetmichel> (12V4A isnt THAT much for a car heater blower with 180 Watts ;-)
[21:31:46] <JaegerBar> an electric fan would be a great idea
[21:32:25] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: MILD turbo boost?
[21:32:43] <Loetmichel> the normal max rpm of the cycle was about 5000 rpm :-)
[21:32:51] <JaegerBar> at low RPMs
[21:33:00] <JaegerBar> i just want a torque boost at low RPMs on my car
[21:33:11] <andypugh> Nitrous
[21:33:13] <JaegerBar> which is why an electric turbo charger may work
[21:33:22] <Loetmichel> if i switched the blower on all hell was breaking looose below the seat ;-)
[21:33:30] <JaegerBar> holy crap
[21:34:32] <danimal3> 12psi and 634cfm needed for a 3 litre motor, approximately
[21:35:46] <Loetmichel> ... the motor survived that about two months then i had a hole in the piston half the diameter of the piston itself ;)
[21:36:27] <danimal3> just to add a little power
[21:36:48] <Loetmichel> ... maybe better so, 'cause i was fifteeen and 75kmh on a cycle desinged for 25 knk isnt the wisest thing to do, and the drivers license would be invalid also ;-)
[21:37:02] <JaegerBar> dear lord loet
[21:37:26] <Loetmichel> if i had been caught by the police ;-)
[21:38:19] <Loetmichel> what?
[21:38:31] <Loetmichel> you didnt do something silly as a child?
[21:38:47] <JaegerBar> are the police strict in germany?
[21:38:50] <Loetmichel> very
[21:38:56] <JaegerBar> terrible
[21:39:07] <danimal3> yea he did, he tried to put a 1.5 ton mill in his dad's garage
[21:39:26] <danimal3> Loetmichel: that was when hitler was still alive, correct? :)
[21:39:26] <Loetmichel> without him knowing?
[21:39:32] <JaegerBar> lol
[21:39:35] <Loetmichel> danimal3: HEY!
[21:39:45] <Loetmichel> i may be old but noth THAT old!
[21:39:48] <danimal3> ha
[21:40:08] <Loetmichel> i am 42 now. calculate yourseld
[21:40:18] <danimal3> 1942?
[21:40:24] <Loetmichel> grrr
[21:40:33] <danimal3> :)
[21:40:37] <danimal3> i kid, i kid
[21:41:04] <JaegerBar> Loetmichel is quite young
[21:41:19] * Loetmichel takes something heavy and throws it in Danimal_garage's direction
[21:41:22] <JaegerBar> he looks very young but i wish he would quit smoking
[21:41:27] <syyl_> but he looks like 62
[21:41:30] <syyl_> ;)
[21:41:34] <Danimal_garage> ha
[21:41:39] <Loetmichel> syyl_: PATSCH!
[21:41:49] <syyl_> to slow ;)
[21:42:35] <Loetmichel> syyl_: ich komm mal beim nächsten grillen und giessen vorbei und tunke dich in den kühlwassertank von nicks fräse ;-)
[21:43:10] <syyl_> watch your language
[21:43:10] <syyl_> :D
[21:43:42] <Loetmichel> syyl_: better they dont understand the threads i make to you ;-)
[21:43:55] <Loetmichel> threats
[21:44:48] <JaegerBar> kuhlwassertank = cold water tank?
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[21:44:56] <Loetmichel> cooling water
[21:44:57] <syyl_> cooling water, yes
[21:45:05] <syyl_> on a milling machine in that case
[21:45:06] <JaegerBar> nicks frase?
[21:45:15] <syyl_> nick is mr. mueller nick
[21:45:20] <JaegerBar> what's a frase?
[21:45:23] <Loetmichel> mill
[21:45:26] <syyl_> milling machine
[21:45:29] <JaegerBar> ahh ok
[21:45:46] <syyl_> he wants to dunk me in that tank
[21:45:59] <syyl_> (good that the tank of the machine is a dry dock...)
[21:46:10] <JaegerBar> giessen means dunk?
[21:46:31] <syyl_> "tunk" means dunken
[21:46:32] <JaegerBar> tunke means dunk
[21:46:36] <syyl_> yes :)
[21:46:41] <Loetmichel> i said i will visit him at the next forgery convention and dunk him in the coolant tank of the mill of the one where the convention takes place
[21:46:43] <JaegerBar> i'm stupid
[21:47:01] <JaegerBar> grillen is convention?
[21:47:04] <syyl_> "grillen und giessen" is "casting and bbq"
[21:47:11] <andypugh> Darn! apt-get update just broke my 2.5 install.
[21:47:13] <Loetmichel> no, grillen is to barbecue
[21:47:22] <syyl_> we do aluminum casting and bbq there :D
[21:47:32] <JaegerBar> hahaha
[21:48:13] <JaegerBar> casting sounds fun
[21:48:23] <syyl_> casting: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/nick-8.jpg
[21:48:29] <syyl_> bbq: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/nick-15.jpg
[21:48:31] <syyl_> ;)
[21:48:36] <syyl_> it is fun, indeed
[21:48:57] <andypugh> Nice foundry shorts :-)
[21:49:11] <Loetmichel> and the one wearing the shorts is Nick
[21:49:18] <syyl_> safety is a very important issue there!
[21:49:25] <syyl_> no pants that can catch fire
[21:49:34] <syyl_> makes sense, hm? :D
[21:49:54] <andypugh> No danger of catching molten metal in your turn-ups...
[21:50:09] <JaegerBar> dear lord wearing shorts while casting
[21:50:28] <syyl_> i see only advantages in shorts ;)
[21:50:29] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: its only molten aluminium
[21:50:50] <syyl_> and he has a leather apron!
[21:50:53] <JaegerBar> that's still about 400C
[21:51:00] <syyl_> (shorter than the shorts ;) )
[21:51:01] <andypugh> With enough sweat you can rely on the Leidenfrost effect.
[21:51:14] <syyl_> maybe
[21:51:30] <JaegerBar> the Leidenfrost effect only works when the vapor created is turbulent
[21:51:32] <syyl_> i am not willing to try ;)
[21:51:32] <Loetmichel> andypugh: is that the effect that hovers the water on the hot cooking plate?
[21:51:44] <JaegerBar> aluminum vapor is far too dense to be turbulent
[21:51:47] <andypugh> Yes :-)
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[21:53:19] <andypugh> JaegerBar: I am not suggesting that syyl's legs are above the Leidenfrost point of aluminium, but rather that aluminium is above the Leidenfrost point of sweat.
[21:54:05] <JaegerBar> is the "leidenfrost point" even exist?
[21:54:31] <andypugh> it does according to Wikipedai
[21:54:46] <syyl_> oh, its on wikipedia, must be true ;)
[21:54:57] * syyl_ takes cover and starts to edit wikipedia
[21:55:06] <JaegerBar> that doesn't make any sense
[21:55:13] <Loetmichel> andypugh: the leidenfrost effect is working on glasses also: glass lenses will catch every spark from grinding or welding
[21:55:29] <Loetmichel> my plastic lenses simply repel them
[21:56:01] <JaegerBar> lol
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[21:56:54] <Loetmichel> i think there will be a very small amount of plastic vaporized and generate enough pressure to repel the spark
[21:57:04] <JaegerBar> nick seems like a cool guy
[21:57:16] <syyl_> nick is a good guy!
[21:57:19] <Loetmichel> on glass lenses the sparks burn in
[21:57:27] <syyl_> watch his videos on youtube
[21:57:35] <Loetmichel> JaegerBar: he is, but sometimes a bit "grumpy" ;-)
[21:57:45] <JaegerBar> ooooo
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[21:57:57] <JaegerBar> the best teachers are always a bit grumpy
[21:57:58] <syyl_> like all bavarians
[21:58:14] <syyl_> http://www.youtube.com/user/
[21:58:18] <syyl_> http://www.youtube.com/user/MuellerNick
[21:58:41] <syyl_> very nice videos about scraping, casting and moldmaking
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[21:59:07] <syyl_> (and milling with emc2)
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[22:03:51] <JaegerBar> Nick is making an engine
[22:04:01] <syyl_> jip
[22:04:57] <mrsun> hmm, anyone know what the leadscrew size and pitch is on the south bend lathes ... tho i dont know the size of mine, but its a quite small one, not one of those big industrial ones :P'
[22:08:17] <mrsun> dont know how many sizes they did
[22:16:50] <mrsun> hmm, if i would get a real accurate leadscrew for the lathe, the screws i produce on it later would theoreticly have the same acuracy ? :)
[22:17:43] <syyl_> yes
[22:17:44] <andypugh> mrsun: Possibly better with leadscrew compensation in EMC2
[22:17:48] <syyl_> or the same error
[22:17:53] <skunkworks_> wow - offset is awesome...
[22:17:57] <archivist> mrsun, thennut averages so can produce a better screw
[22:17:59] <mrsun> andypugh, manual lathe =)
[22:18:03] <archivist> the nut
[22:19:27] <archivist> we just need temperature compensation too
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[22:21:01] <mrsun> gah, where the heck to find specefications of din 975 5.8 ...
[22:21:45] <syyl_> what is din 975?
[22:21:54] <andypugh> http://www.bodgesoc.org/strengths.html ?
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[22:22:39] <syyl_> din 975 is a standard threaded rod
[22:22:59] <andypugh> 5.8 is the nomninal strength and elongation to break
[22:23:20] <syyl_> right
[22:23:22] <mrsun> ahh
[22:23:36] <mrsun> it says trapezoidal screw din 975 5.8
[22:23:45] <mrsun> was thinking tolerances etc
[22:23:49] <mrsun> over length
[22:25:09] <syyl_> ah ok, din975 can also be trapezoid thread
[22:25:32] <syyl_> its a bit difficult to get the full specs on a DIN
[22:25:45] <syyl_> normal you have to pay
[22:26:50] <mrsun> ahh :/
[22:27:18] <syyl_> maybe i have access at work to it
[22:27:46] <mrsun> i was thinking to buy an accurate screw for replacement on the lathe
[22:27:54] <mrsun> better the more accuracy you can get =)
[22:28:08] <syyl_> i will have a look tomorrow
[22:28:24] <andypugh> I suspect that the one on the lathe will be very good.
[22:29:30] <mrsun> andypugh, the one on my lathe ?
[22:29:41] <mrsun> lol, when looking at it i can see how worn it is
[22:29:57] <mrsun> at the ends the threads are very even looking, more towards the middle of it they are very very thin
[22:30:00] <andypugh> Ah, OK. It probably _was_ very good when new then :-)
[22:30:08] <tom3p> skunkworks: using the offset comp for the quill temp expansion compensation?
[22:32:52] <mrsun> but with a pitch tolerance of say 50um/300mm how could that be evened out by the nut ?
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[22:56:29] <andypugh> mrsun: You almost certainy don't care.
[22:56:51] <mrsun> huh ? :)
[22:57:04] <andypugh> About 50um tolerance
[22:57:08] <andypugh> What are you making?
[22:57:28] <mrsun> andypugh, i just like my machines to be able to do nice stuff :P
[22:57:37] <mrsun> and i like thinking and figuring things :P
[22:57:59] <andypugh> 50um in 300mm is irrelevant to just about anything I can think of.
[22:58:34] <mrsun> hmm, that might have been the wrong number i guess, badest ive found specified was 0.2mm/300mm error
[22:58:42] <mrsun> and best is 0.05mm/300mm
[22:58:45] <mrsun> pitch error
[22:58:49] <andypugh> OK, that's a bit more of a worry
[22:59:05] <andypugh> .2mm means that holes won't line up.
[22:59:13] <mrsun> 0.05mm == 50um right? :)
[22:59:18] <andypugh> Yes.
[22:59:33] <andypugh> But that would be a super-fine fit on a 300mm part.
[23:00:00] <mrsun> ye and i guess i wont do any longer then like 600mm screws if i make screws so :P
[23:00:59] <andypugh> Why are you making screws though? Ballscrews are pretty cheap.
[23:01:28] <mrsun> andypugh, never know what i end up in =)
[23:01:32] <mrsun> and its good to be able to =)
[23:02:09] <mrsun> andypugh, and in this case its for my micromill dont feel like throwing another 400$ on it :P
[23:02:18] <mrsun> atleast not atm
[23:02:27] <andypugh> What size ballscrews would you need?
[23:02:46] <mrsun> andypugh, well preferably those small thingies from zapp automation, like 10mm
[23:02:50] <mrsun> 16 gets a bit big
[23:03:15] <mrsun> and 16 is the most common
[23:03:24] <mrsun> so screw + nut and end supports
[23:03:50] <mrsun> cheap ones on 16mm on ebay but like i said, gets a bit big and i dont know how i would make it fit
[23:04:42] <andypugh> The hard part is fitting in the nut. You won't get a 16mm ball nut in a minimill
[23:05:09] <andypugh> Ballnut and 300mm screw is £72 from Zapp.
[23:05:12] <mrsun> micro =)
[23:05:25] <mrsun> andypugh, then i need end support bearings on that
[23:05:29] <mrsun> andypugh, and its for 3 axis
[23:05:43] <andypugh> Yeah, so I get £216 for 3 axes
[23:06:25] <andypugh> (I have always made my own end-supports, when I have bothered with them. I think I only have one.)
[23:07:01] <mrsun> andypugh, well bearings for end supports werent that cheap either if you want the real deal =)
[23:07:11] <andypugh> The mill Y and lathe X are short enough to be free-ended.
[23:07:46] <andypugh> The mill Z and X will be/are rotating nut.
[23:08:08] <mrsun> andypugh, im thinking at the motor end
[23:08:11] <mrsun> that bearing =)
[23:08:30] <andypugh> Ah, you mean the thrust bearings? I have just made adjustable housings for angular-contac bearings.
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[23:11:08] <andypugh> mrsun: Like this: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5403345560655766370
[23:12:05] <mrsun> oh well time to sleep now =)
[23:12:09] <mrsun> thanks and bye =)
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[23:24:36] <danimal3> cute servo
[23:25:54] <andypugh> Mine? That's a stepper.
[23:26:00] <danimal3> i just had a McRib today. It was horrible.
[23:26:04] <danimal3> ah
[23:26:11] <danimal3> the shaft out the rear fooled me
[23:26:25] <danimal3> thought it was for an encoder
[23:26:35] <andypugh> I assume it is. I am not sure why.
[23:26:59] <danimal3> how well does a stepper on a lathe work?
[23:27:10] <JT-Shop> hmmm, the internet seems to be working now :) ????
[23:27:19] <jdhNC> some people put handwheels on the back shaft
[23:27:29] <jdhNC> or inertial dampners
[23:27:34] <danimal3> ah
[23:27:43] <danimal3> dampers*
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[23:28:03] <danimal3> unless you want to make the inertia wet
[23:28:09] <jdhNC> or that
[23:28:10] <danimal3> :)
[23:28:14] <jdhNC> dampeners
[23:28:46] <danimal3> dampers
[23:29:26] <jdhNC> dampeners damnit
[23:29:49] <danimal3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damper
[23:30:04] <jdhNC> you are going to believe brooding Jimmy?
[23:30:11] <jdhNC> or his creepy staff?
[23:30:21] <danimal3> lol
[23:30:44] <danimal3> it's a pet peeve, like your and you're, etc.
[23:31:14] <jdhNC> how about aluminium?
[23:31:36] <Danimal_garage> i usually say aluminuminuminum
[23:33:53] <andypugh> danimal3: A stepper on a lathe works just about adequately. It's fine for everything except drilling with the toolpost.
[23:34:44] <Danimal_garage> ah
[23:34:47] <Danimal_garage> cool
[23:35:08] <andypugh> jdhNC: Humphry Davy called it "alumium" when he discovered it. But then he couldn't even spell "Humphrey"
[23:38:20] <Danimal_garage> i naturally assumed the guy who discovered aluminum was named Al
[23:38:34] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan
[23:38:41] <jdhNC> You can call me Al
[23:38:44] <andypugh> Humphryium didn't catch on.
[23:38:47] <Danimal_garage> hi John
[23:39:07] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/187323
[23:40:03] <Danimal_garage> nice! That looks dangerous!
[23:40:14] <Danimal_garage> you try it yet?
[23:40:16] <tom3p> cold roll fletches on the arrow !
[23:40:21] <skunkworks_> now that looks like fun....
[23:40:33] <andypugh> JT-Shop: "What could possibly go wrong?"
[23:41:05] <jdhNC> leaf springs?
[23:41:20] <Tom_itx> just use a cheater bar for drilling on a lathe
[23:42:25] <JT-Shop> is anyone really out there?
[23:42:38] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop is that part of neighborhood watch?
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[23:42:46] <skunkworks_> uh oh - JT-Shop still has internet issues
[23:43:11] <Danimal_garage> lol
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[23:44:41] <danimal3> would 410 stainless be cherry red at 1300f?
[23:44:50] <danimal3> more of an orange actually
[23:45:00] <danimal3> i think my thermocoupler is off
[23:45:05] <Tom_itx> heh
[23:45:24] <andypugh> "Cherry Red" is independent of the material, and is just a function of the Black Body Radiation law
[23:45:40] <danimal3> the bricks and parts are glowing pretty bright
[23:45:54] <danimal3> but the temp gage says 1285f
[23:46:13] <danimal3> it's been on all day, cant get it to reach 1800f
[23:47:23] <Tom_itx> http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/analysis/fires/metcolor.htm
[23:47:35] <danimal3> yea i saw that
[23:47:42] <Tom_itx> 1375 to 1450
[23:48:06] <Tom_itx> your dial is off
[23:49:23] <danimal3> it's a digital programable temperature controler
[23:49:57] <danimal3> http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/6468669381/
[23:50:13] <danimal3> i would say that's orange, huh?
[23:50:39] <Tom_itx> too hot to be a sauna
[23:51:03] <JT-Shop> logger[mah]: log
[23:51:03] <logger[mah]> JT-Shop: Log stored at http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc/2011-12-06.html
[23:51:19] <Tom_itx> yeah i'd guestimate it orangish
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[23:53:00] <JT-Shop> crap the internet is still borked
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[23:53:08] <Tom_itx> but you're still here
[23:53:43] <JT-Shop> nice
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[23:57:34] <JT-Shop> test firing tomorrow I think
[23:58:02] <jdhNC> *C* CTCP PING response from JT-Shop: 529.458130 seconds
[23:58:17] <jdhNC> 9 minute lag is pretty impressive.
[23:59:10] <andypugh> danimal3: Looks like about 900C to me.