#emc | Logs for 2011-11-12

[00:00:12] <andypugh> Could well be, I need to settle down and really investigate
[00:00:49] <Danimal_garage> i doubt it, they're hard to screw up
[00:01:04] <andypugh> In that last pic, the handle just pulls off. I am rather pleased with the three-dog clutch thing.
[00:01:18] <Danimal_garage> yea, watch the nads with that thing lol
[00:01:34] <Danimal_garage> i've caught myself while running a prototrak
[00:02:00] <andypugh> That's why it pulls off. I expect it to spend all its time in the drawer.
[00:02:22] <Danimal_garage> do you know anything about touchy? i just ordered a touch screen display, i'm gunna try it out on the new mill
[00:02:26] <andypugh> Except maybe for simple jobs like squaring-off 20x20
[00:02:45] <Danimal_garage> my cnc's don't have handles, i kinda wish they did sometimes
[00:03:11] <andypugh> Yes, a bit, that mill is going to have a Touchy interface: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5586611443242826466
[00:03:35] <Danimal_garage> sweet
[00:03:45] <Danimal_garage> can you still use a keyboard with it?
[00:03:54] <andypugh> Look bottom left...
[00:04:06] <andypugh> Ah, you mean with Touchy?
[00:04:17] <Danimal_garage> yes
[00:04:20] <andypugh> I am not sure. cradek is your man for Touchy
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[00:04:45] <Danimal_garage> well not so much with touchy, but i want to be able to use it to edit programs and such
[00:05:03] <Jymmm> Heh, looks like a cross between a pachinko machine, bathroom dispenser, and an electronic "you are here" sign =)
[00:05:04] <Danimal_garage> i'm thinking of having a slide out tray below the screen for it
[00:05:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: No offense intended
[00:06:11] <Danimal_garage> http://www.ebay.com/itm/140619945758?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[00:06:15] <Danimal_garage> i just got that
[00:06:25] <Danimal_garage> the website has ubuntu drivers for it
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[00:07:43] <Jymmm> wth do they mean by "This unit is used and may have small blemishes that you would find on a used touchscreen monitor"
[00:08:02] <Danimal_garage> i dunno
[00:08:07] <Danimal_garage> it's a glass screen
[00:08:21] <Danimal_garage> unless it's cracked or malfunctioning...
[00:08:37] <Jymmm> I would think there would be ZERO blemishes on the touchscreen itself.
[00:08:50] <Jymmm> I dont count figerprints as blemishes
[00:08:56] <Danimal_garage> http://www.ebay.com/itm/330638448877?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[00:09:01] <Danimal_garage> there's the vfd i just got
[00:09:25] <Danimal_garage> if the mill has encoders, all i'll have to buy is a 7i64
[00:10:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: What are the three lower buttons for?
[00:11:12] <andypugh> Jymmm: I admit I am a but unsure about the arcade buttons, but the lower ones are quill-up, tool-release and optional pause.
[00:11:25] <Jymmm> Heh, I picked up a couple of these - cheap enough http://www.harborfreight.com/8-oz-stubby-claw-hammer-95929.html
[00:12:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, ok. Well if you are not sure about the arcade conttrols, I've found and like LED based industrial ones on ebay pretty good
[00:12:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: never have to replace a bulb again, are 24V too
[00:12:30] <andypugh> I don't think I will be changing them, but I might tone-down the captions.
[00:12:38] <andypugh> These are LED.
[00:12:42] <Jymmm> cool
[00:13:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: Design what you REALLY want, then take down to a vinyl sign shop and have them make them for you
[00:13:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: I think the controls are fine, just the artwork a bit off
[00:14:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: you could even inverse them too
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[00:16:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: Actually, if you had a vinyl shop do the whole panel, migth add a lil somethiing to it - they can do lettering too
[00:16:57] <andypugh> The keytops were my design, lasered onto transparency. I might find a colour scheme for Touchy that I like, then re-do the buttons to match.
[00:17:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: "The Andy 3000 Industrial Controller"
[00:17:22] <Danimal_garage> lol
[00:17:42] <FinboySlick> Andy 3000, is it better than the Cherry 2000?
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[00:18:06] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I'm not gonna touch that one
[00:18:24] <Danimal_garage> the control on the new mill has a small crt screen and some buttons and jog wheel on it already. I'm going to make a new pannel for the enclosure and just use some buttons and the jog wheel with the touch screen built in to the pannel
[00:18:31] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Hehe, lots of other jokes came to mind but I wanted to keep this clean.
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[00:19:22] <Danimal_garage> i like your usb ports andypugh
[00:19:49] <Danimal_garage> i may do something similar, but i'll probably put a little cover on it to protect it from chips and coolant
[00:20:09] <andypugh> Just a normal PC back-panel breakout, removed from the PCI slot thingy, and fastened to the back of the panel.
[00:20:38] <Danimal_garage> cool
[00:20:41] <andypugh> I might make some blanking plugs
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[00:22:58] <Danimal_garage> i'm trying to find a kiln for heat treating
[00:25:07] <andypugh> What sort of treating?
[00:25:32] <Danimal_garage> 410 stainless
[00:25:40] <andypugh> Yes, but what treatment?
[00:25:41] <Danimal_garage> so about 1800f
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[00:25:49] <Danimal_garage> hardening
[00:26:06] <andypugh> Heat and quench?
[00:26:10] <Danimal_garage> oil quenching
[00:26:12] <Danimal_garage> yes
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[00:27:56] <andypugh> Have you considered a salt bath?
[00:28:25] <Danimal_garage> no
[00:28:36] <Danimal_garage> dont know what that is
[00:28:45] <andypugh> It's a bath, bull of salt.
[00:28:49] <andypugh> (full)
[00:29:19] <andypugh> I am just checking if they work for austenisation
[00:29:30] <Danimal_garage> heated?
[00:31:25] <andypugh> Yes, to 1800F...
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[00:32:24] <Danimal_garage> instead of oil quench?
[00:32:44] <andypugh> No, instead of a furnace
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[00:34:10] <Danimal_garage> well i still need something to get it that hot
[00:34:17] <andypugh> It is a way of getting metal hot quickly, while avoiding oxidation. You put it in a bath of molten salt at austenisation temperature, then pull it out and quench it in the oil.
[00:34:33] <Danimal_garage> interesting
[00:34:49] <andypugh> http://science.howstuffworks.com/sword-making6.htm
[00:35:26] <andypugh> The thermal contact is a lot better than trusting to air, mainly
[00:35:47] <andypugh> And you don't get hot/cold spots where it rests on the firebricks.
[00:36:03] <Danimal_garage> cool
[00:36:15] <Danimal_garage> i'll look into it if and when i find a furnace
[00:36:21] <andypugh> On the minus side, 1000C molten salt is not 100% safe to be around.
[00:36:59] <andypugh> Well, you would normally use an electrically heated pot. Stainless tube with elements round the outside.
[00:37:34] <andypugh> I have a small scar from putting a slightly damp metallurgical sample in molten NaOH
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[00:38:21] <Danimal_garage> i have enough chemistry going on with my anodizing setup lol
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[00:49:03] <Quack> Danimal can i come check it outz
[00:59:48] <Tom_itx> andypugh do you use a ceramic pot to melt the salt in?
[01:00:47] <andypugh> Normally stainless, but ceramic can be easier, as you just need to wrap some resistance wire round it (I have one done that way upstairs)
[01:01:46] <andypugh> Actually, the one upstairs, I wrapped resistance wire round a plastic rod, then wrapped both round the pot, encased the whole mess in fire-cement, and turned on the current until molten plastic stopped oozing oiut.
[01:03:03] <Tom_itx> forced air wood furnace get it hot enough?
[01:03:40] <FinboySlick> Hmmm, how does one run a text-based latency test?
[01:06:38] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test
[01:07:10] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Just what I was looking for.
[01:07:26] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Well, that's RTAI test, not emc one
[01:09:03] <FinboySlick> Hehe, still crashes my poor little alix :P
[01:09:56] <Jymmm> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration#Run_a_Latency_Test
[01:10:08] <Jymmm> ah, bummer
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[01:13:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: You one crazy bastard!!!!
[01:16:26] <andypugh> Eh? What?
[01:16:41] <Tom_itx> no guts no glory
[01:16:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: mucking around with molten NaOH
[01:17:00] <andypugh> It was my job.
[01:17:32] <andypugh> I was developing a new spring-steel alloy and process.
[01:17:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: I stand by what I said, even if you were paid for it
[01:17:46] <Tom_itx> does the car plant do alot of heat treating that way?
[01:18:02] <andypugh> Yeah, as I wasn't paid well. (first PostDoc job)
[01:18:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: You play with KOH too?
[01:19:38] <andypugh> Not at that time. We would have done if we needed a lower-melting point mixture
[01:19:47] <Jymmm> ah
[01:20:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: As I have no clue... Would Lime (from the hardware store) kill weeds or help them grow?
[01:20:48] <andypugh> Lime is often used as a soil treatment.
[01:21:04] <Jymmm> So that's a no. ok.
[01:21:13] <Tom_itx> used under roadways isn't it?
[01:21:19] <Tom_itx> hardens the soil?
[01:21:20] <andypugh> So, if you have acid soil they will grow better. But if you have alkaline soil, they will like it less. Maybe
[01:21:38] <Jymmm> I'm just trying to find a cheap bulk weed killer
[01:21:51] <Tom_itx> dump your used oil on them
[01:21:54] <andypugh> sodium chlorate?
[01:22:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: how cheap is that in 50lb bags?
[01:22:20] <Tom_itx> agent orange works rather well too
[01:22:49] <Jymmm> I've used 2000 lbs of rock salt so far, need something a bit more effective.
[01:22:50] <Danimal_garage> fire
[01:22:55] <Tom_itx> coops used to sell that to the farmers back then
[01:24:30] <andypugh> I am not sure that you can still get sodium chlorate. It's a bit too useful for making bombs with, so the War on Terror has handed victory to the enemy in the War on Weeds.
[01:25:09] <Jymmm> Ok, 50 lbs of Calcium hypochlorite and 1 gal of water =)
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[01:26:31] <Danimal_garage> fire
[01:26:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, it sucks with everything being on a controled substances list these days
[01:26:36] <Danimal_garage> flame thrower
[01:26:50] <Danimal_garage> even sudafed
[01:26:58] <andypugh> FWIW my mother recommends Bayer "Ground Clear" for the full "scorched earth" effect
[01:27:01] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: Bed of charcoal (the gf already told me NO!)
[01:27:09] <Danimal_garage> i cant even make crystal meth anymore
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[01:27:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: I tried that but a bottle only covers like 400 sq ft and is pricy
[01:27:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: and only lasted like 7 months
[01:28:37] <Danimal_garage> man it feels so much later than 5:30
[01:28:42] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I wonder if I could satuarate the ground with enough lime to be effective
[01:29:33] <andypugh> Why lime?
[01:29:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: 50lb bags at hardware store $8/bag
[01:30:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: Just convientntly available in bulk
[01:30:20] <andypugh> I guess with enough anhydrous lime, some sand, some pebbles and some re-bar you could solve the problem.
[01:30:42] <Jymmm> If I need rebar, I just need to get the hell out!
[01:30:56] <Jymmm> those would be some SERIOUS weeds!
[01:31:12] <andypugh> Anyway, that lime is probably being sold to increase fertility, which is not what you seem to want
[01:31:37] <Jymmm> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=lime&selectedCatgry=SEARCH+ALL&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&Ntpc=1&Ntpr=1
[01:31:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: I just want something that lasts longer than rock salt
[01:33:02] <andypugh> I avoid gardening, so am not the best source of advice.
[01:33:10] <Jymmm> The calcium hypochlorite is easy enough to get, if I dont kill myself first
[01:33:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: well, that's the thing. I DONT want to be gardening at all =)
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[01:35:26] <Jymmm> nor pulling weeds either =)
[01:35:40] <Danimal_garage> Jymmm: you're in California, just hire a Mexican for 12/hr
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[01:36:06] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: No fun in that, I want chemical castration!
[01:36:33] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: (since the gf won't let me do with fire)
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[01:37:17] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/united-kingdom/191874-best-alternative-sodium-chlorate.html
[01:37:25] <andypugh> Mentions ammonium nitrate
[01:37:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: and a lil diesel and (again) bomb making stuff
[01:38:05] <Danimal_garage> suit yourself. it's cheaper than chemicals
[01:38:16] <Danimal_garage> i have a guy come every few months
[01:38:23] <Danimal_garage> picks up after the dog too
[01:38:30] <Jymmm> heh
[01:38:43] <Danimal_garage> trims the trees, weeds, picks up leaves and trash
[01:39:01] <Danimal_garage> works out to about $12 a month
[01:45:57] <Quack> danimal i'll take care of your lawn if you teach me machining
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[01:58:49] <andypugh> PCW: ? pcw_home ? What is the data type of the 7i49 velocity register? Is it signed 32? In that case, the manual seems wrong in saying that full-scale is 2^32?
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[02:18:29] <andypugh> Time to sleep
[02:18:30] <andypugh> Night all
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[03:19:58] <emcrules_W700> just bought a nice small VMC today!! anyone recomend a good rotary phase converter?
[03:40:37] <jdhNC> no clue... but how big?
[03:43:21] <jdhNC> http://www.rotaryphaseconverters.com/kits.htm
[03:46:41] <emcrules_W700> The machine or phase converter?
[03:46:48] <jdhNC> machine
[03:47:37] <emcrules_W700> http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tradenote.net/images/users/000/404/570/products_images/569472.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tradenote.net/keyword/zero/&h=500&w=395&sz=48&tbnid=aOdztWtJzBa9DM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=74&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dkitamura%2Bmycenter%2B0%2Bimages%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=kitamura+mycenter+0+images&docid=4dPB0iibu6SyPM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Puy9TrzYHsPb0QHP_7C5BA&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ9QEwAA&dur=16
[03:48:03] <emcrules_W700> got a line on a hass VF-4 as well
[03:48:10] <Danimal_garage> jealous!
[03:48:23] <Danimal_garage> i was looking for something that size
[03:48:43] <emcrules_W700> they are an awesome little machine
[03:49:02] <Danimal_garage> i settled for another knee mill :(
[03:49:19] <emcrules_W700> I think i might sell my knee mill
[03:49:37] <Danimal_garage> what do you have?
[03:49:51] <emcrules_W700> 9 x 42 clone
[03:49:58] <Danimal_garage> cnc?
[03:50:02] <emcrules_W700> yep
[03:50:06] <Danimal_garage> cool
[03:50:31] <Danimal_garage> i got a b-port clone for a manual mill
[03:51:00] <emcrules_W700> they are handy
[03:51:04] <Danimal_garage> i have a shizuoka knee mill cnc with a toolchanger, which is about 3 times as big
[03:51:30] <Danimal_garage> and i got another almost identical mill coming
[03:51:32] <emcrules_W700> thats why i bought this mill the tool changer is gold
[03:51:36] <Danimal_garage> yea
[03:51:43] <Danimal_garage> i wouldnt buy one without it
[03:51:57] <emcrules_W700> i still might buy the hass
[03:52:05] <Danimal_garage> fortunately they both have the same toolchanger so i can use the ladder from my other one
[03:52:11] <emcrules_W700> its a 98 vf-4 for 5 grand
[03:52:18] <Danimal_garage> not bad
[03:52:29] <jdhNC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QFJUfbi0CI nifty looking machine (and tool cahnger)
[03:52:31] <emcrules_W700> fire in the electrical cabinet
[03:52:37] <Danimal_garage> ah
[03:52:53] <emcrules_W700> emc can fix that
[03:52:59] <Danimal_garage> did the stove burner for the spindle brake catch something on fire? lol
[03:53:21] <Danimal_garage> the spindle control and servo drives safe?
[03:54:21] <emcrules_W700> not sure yet waiting for pictures but i have enough servo stuff lying around or can get my hands on not to worry
[03:54:50] <emcrules_W700> I have a abb 6400 6 axis robot taking up space in my shop
[03:55:47] <emcrules_W700> i could use the motors if needed
[03:56:02] <Danimal_garage> nice
[03:56:10] <Danimal_garage> send some servo stuff my way lol
[03:56:46] <Danimal_garage> i need bigger ones for my shizuoka
[03:57:01] <Danimal_garage> the ones on there are only 1.5kw
[03:57:39] <emcrules_W700> whats the size of the table
[03:59:00] <Danimal_garage> not sure
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[03:59:11] <Danimal_garage> the travel is 17x37
[03:59:39] <emcrules_W700> ah so it weighs a fair bit
[03:59:49] <Danimal_garage> 11x52
[04:00:00] <Danimal_garage> yea, it's a 6000lb knee mill
[04:00:08] <Danimal_garage> without the toolchanger
[04:00:14] <Danimal_garage> or controls
[04:00:27] <emcrules_W700> what kind of rapids do you get out of it
[04:00:46] <Danimal_garage> depends
[04:01:07] <Danimal_garage> i run it at 200ipm because the drives have an issue with losing count
[04:01:14] <emcrules_W700> 1.5 KW should be plenty for that type of machine
[04:01:47] <Danimal_garage> the servos have resolvers, and the resolvers go to the digital drives and it converts it into quadrature encoder counts to go to the control
[04:02:12] <Danimal_garage> when the drives get up to about 90-100 degrees f, it starts losing position
[04:03:00] <Danimal_garage> i'm going to gear them down a little, i got some pulleys and belts.
[04:03:12] <emcrules_W700> 3:1
[04:03:13] <Danimal_garage> when i do that, i'm going to mount encoders right on the ballscrews
[04:03:29] <Danimal_garage> 3:2
[04:03:59] <Danimal_garage> the resolvers will still go to the drives, but the encoders will go to emc
[04:04:01] <emcrules_W700> whats the ratio now?
[04:04:04] <Danimal_garage> 1:1
[04:04:07] <Danimal_garage> direct
[04:04:09] <emcrules_W700> oh
[04:04:21] <emcrules_W700> was it like that always
[04:04:31] <Danimal_garage> well it had steppers before, but yes
[04:04:55] <emcrules_W700> did the steppers have a higher power rating?
[04:05:21] <Danimal_garage> yea
[04:05:37] <emcrules_W700> the gear ratio will help alot then
[04:06:03] <Danimal_garage> they were 1300oz/in
[04:06:05] <emcrules_W700> it will help to reduce the reflected inertia of the mass
[04:06:09] <Danimal_garage> i think these are like 700
[04:06:16] <Danimal_garage> thats what i'm hoping
[04:06:25] <Danimal_garage> my goal is to get it back over 300ipm
[04:06:35] <Danimal_garage> 400 preferably
[04:07:03] <Danimal_garage> it can do 500ipm now, but the drives get warm and it loses position
[04:07:46] <Danimal_garage> it'd be easier just to get bigger servos and drives, but i don't feel like spending money
[04:08:13] <emcrules_W700> ya usualy on a machine that size iv seen 30in/lb motors on a 3:2 /3:1 reduction
[04:08:44] <Danimal_garage> yea, that'd help
[04:09:12] <Danimal_garage> my new mill has servos on it already, they have gear reduction
[04:09:21] <Danimal_garage> they look much bigger than my servos
[04:09:37] <emcrules_W700> size is deciving
[04:09:39] <Danimal_garage> same size mill, maybe a hair smaller
[04:09:45] <Danimal_garage> they're dc
[04:09:58] <Danimal_garage> the one on my current mill are ac
[04:10:02] <emcrules_W700> brushed
[04:10:47] <Danimal_garage> the dc ones are
[04:10:52] <Danimal_garage> the ac ones are not
[04:11:07] <emcrules_W700> I figured that
[04:11:52] <Danimal_garage> the servos are still lightyears above the steppers that were on it
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[04:12:32] <emcrules_W700> no kidding i personally hate using stepper and cnc in the same sentence
[04:13:11] <Danimal_garage> i'll never use a stepper again
[04:13:29] <emcrules_W700> yes there computer controlled but not closed loop
[04:13:38] <Danimal_garage> well i gotta go eat, adios
[04:13:45] <emcrules_W700> later dude
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[05:11:11] <frysteev> hey hey
[05:12:21] <frysteev> any mesa geeks handy?
[05:18:26] <emcrules_W700> yo
[05:20:12] <frysteev> im looking at the mesa 7143's and wondering about any differences for emc use, ie usb vs parrell
[05:20:55] <emcrules_W700> parallel
[05:21:12] <emcrules_W700> usb as far as i know is not supported
[05:21:16] <frysteev> didnt think usb could do real time,
[05:21:29] <emcrules_W700> i use the 7i43
[05:22:08] <frysteev> im just double checking some things before i order parts,
[05:22:46] <emcrules_W700> i do use the usb port to provide 5 v to the board
[05:23:19] <emcrules_W700> but all comms are thu th parallel port
[05:23:29] <frysteev> good to know
[05:23:53] <frysteev> thanks
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[06:14:21] <]|[-webmaster-]|> ______ HOLA ______
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[08:06:11] <Loetmichel> moin
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[10:34:21] <anonimasu> frysteev: the best option is to have the mesa board with usb and paralell so you can power it off the usb(it's "neat") and no mesing around with ext power
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[10:36:08] <Jymmm> Got Light??? http://www.olightworld.com/product_show.asp?id=174
[10:36:38] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65DF2s0k_g&feature=related
[10:37:22] <Jymmm> I know the others are brighter, but the SR90 has a nice throw I thought.
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[14:53:06] <JT-Shop> update on the freezing computer and weird problems we were talking about yesterday
[14:53:15] <JT-Shop> "Yesterday it locked up when trying to load a G-code file. I looked closely at the file and noticed that my employee who does the cad/cam was saving the files as "Cut.11.10.11.ngc". I thought maybe the "." between the date was confusing it somehow. I know this used to be an issue with Windows. Anyway, I renamed the file to "Cut_11_10_11.ngc and it seemed to open fine. This may very well...
[14:53:16] <JT-Shop> ...have been the whole issue. We'll keep trying on Monday and find out. "
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[15:50:48] <cpresser> JT-Shop: i always use more than one dot in my NC-files. i never had a problem with that
[15:52:06] <JT-Shop> ever use 4 dots?
[15:53:46] <JT-Shop> could it be from the thumb drive that they use to bring files to the machine with?
[15:54:48] <JT-Shop> hmmm 4 dots in a file name don't seem to give me any problem opening up
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[16:03:02] <cpresser> i think i used 3 dots.. but i am to lazy to serach my cnc-archive
[16:03:49] <cpresser> but it might be related to the used filesystem. mine is NFS, so it might not be comparable
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[16:13:07] <JT-Shop> I do know the files originate on a Winblows computer
[16:15:17] <Tom_itx> it's just wrong to use that many dots in a file name
[16:15:47] <Tom_itx> a . means the 'end' of something
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[16:29:57] <cpresser> i prefer dots over whitespaces
[16:32:46] <Danimal_garage> morning
[16:33:50] <Danimal_garage> hmmm i should work on rearranging the garage today
[16:34:12] <Danimal_garage> it's raining out so not much else to do
[16:35:06] <elmo401> _ not .
[16:36:16] <Danimal_garage> i was gunna change my struts in the car, but not gunna happen in the rain
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[16:39:40] <Danimal_garage> but first, it's time for a mcgriddle.
[16:42:36] <skunkKandT> eww... (I just had eggs and turkey bacon..)
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[16:51:17] <Danimal_garage> pfft
[16:51:28] <Danimal_garage> mcgriddles are so much better than that
[16:52:38] <Danimal_garage> i put my immersion chiller on ebay
[16:52:51] <Danimal_garage> cant believe people actually want it
[16:53:13] <skunkKandT> heh
[16:53:18] <Danimal_garage> 2 bids with 3 days to go so far, 8 people watching it
[16:53:42] <skunkKandT> awesome
[16:53:47] <Danimal_garage> pretty stoked
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[16:54:05] <Danimal_garage> i got2 of them, i'm gunna list the second one when this one sells
[16:54:45] <Danimal_garage> i got then at the surplus yard to use with my anodizing, but they aren't 100% ideal
[16:55:19] <Danimal_garage> i figure i can sell these and get what i shouldhave gotten
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[16:58:45] <JT-Shop> Danimal_garage: come over here and you can help me arrange the shop it's not raining over here
[17:02:56] <skunkKandT> JT-Shop: did you guys figure out the var file issure?
[17:04:06] <JT-Shop> just got an email from him and his guy was editing the file on the winblows computer with an unknown editor at this point so when they tried to open it up Ubuntu locked up and pulling the plug would not save the var file
[17:04:39] <skunkKandT> wow - so a formatting issue?
[17:07:28] <JT-Shop> I think so, when he renamed the file in Ubuntu it opened up fine
[17:08:14] <archivist> if he had spaces in the name, then use quotes
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[17:11:28] <JT-Shop> use quotes for what?
[17:13:54] <archivist> "the file name with spaces"
[17:17:06] <JT-Shop> I sure I don't know what your talking about now
[17:17:13] <skunkKandT> we had found a script for adding user to linux/samba and my coworker edited the username/password file on his xp machine. The script had a heck of a time working
[17:18:03] <skunkKandT> There used to be an issue with ini files with spaces in the file name.. Is that what you are talking about?
[17:18:27] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: i got some good plans for the shop layout, but unfortunately i think i lose this computer
[17:18:41] <Danimal_garage> i wont have room for a computer desk
[17:19:06] <JT-Shop> I put mine on top of a tool chest with a piece of plywood
[17:19:09] <Danimal_garage> i guess i can try and wall mount it
[17:21:58] <elmo401> what about that laser machine in the scrap yard?
[17:23:23] <skunkKandT> you have a computer on your mill.... :)
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[18:07:43] <JT-Shop> Sweet! done designing the trigger assembly
[18:10:17] <Danimal_garage> elmo401: it's waiting for me to get it
[18:10:38] <Danimal_garage> it wont fit in my van so i need to borrow a trailer
[18:10:49] <elmo401> I have a pickup. ;)
[18:12:42] <Danimal_garage> ha
[18:13:04] <Danimal_garage> you want to drive to san diego to help me move it to my house?
[18:13:06] <Danimal_garage> thanks!
[18:13:23] <Tom_itx> if i could take a mill home in the end sure
[18:14:09] <Danimal_garage> i'm sure there are a few mills for sale
[18:17:40] <elmo401> take a video of the place
[18:17:49] <Danimal_garage> of my shop?
[18:17:57] <elmo401> the yard
[18:18:01] <elmo401> where the laser is.
[18:18:03] <elmo401> other things there?
[18:18:09] <Danimal_garage> not much there
[18:18:18] <Danimal_garage> it's mostly junk
[18:18:34] <Danimal_garage> cabinets anbd such
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[18:20:23] <Danimal_garage> i think i've bought everything there of value lol
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[18:21:18] <Danimal_garage> lots of ac motors
[18:21:23] <Danimal_garage> of all sizes
[18:21:33] <Danimal_garage> they make and sell vfd's there
[18:21:45] <Danimal_garage> not vfd's... rotary phase converters
[18:23:38] <Danimal_garage> hmm i wonder if i should hang some drywall before i put the mill in it's place
[18:26:47] <Jymmm> and electrical, and lighting, and air, and beer tap
[18:27:02] <Danimal_garage> lighting and air is done
[18:27:23] <Danimal_garage> electrical is there, however the conduit needs to come down to do the drywall
[18:27:44] <Danimal_garage> might swap some of it out for romex and put it in the wall
[18:28:25] <Jymmm> 220 3ph romex?
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[18:29:12] <Danimal_garage> no, for the 110v
[18:29:17] <Jymmm> ah
[18:29:20] <Danimal_garage> no 3 phase here
[18:29:37] <Danimal_garage> 220 i may just leave in the conduit
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[18:30:14] <IchGucksLive> hi all
[18:30:41] <Danimal_garage> hi
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[18:58:37] <JT-Shop> I'm guessing that if I get 335vdc across a capacitor it is still charged up
[18:59:03] * JT-Shop wonders how to discharge them other than using my tongue :?
[19:03:02] <archivist> a resistor
[19:03:34] <archivist> one that can handle the power and voltage for a short time
[19:07:22] <JT-Shop> I have a 15k 5 watt resistor
[19:08:57] <skunkKandT> heh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgDuraJ0qj4
[19:09:31] <skunkKandT> see what comes up in the search when e=mc 2
[19:10:14] <pcw_home> roughly 8 watts but ok for a short time
[19:11:15] * JT-Shop gets some gloves on to try
[19:11:40] <elmo401> anyone using HeeksCNC?
[19:11:56] <syyl_ws> i tried it
[19:12:14] <syyl_ws> i really tried it :D
[19:12:15] <elmo401> im trying to cut out a Hex from a square block of steel. Anyone know how I pick an entry-exit point for the tool?
[19:12:40] <syyl_ws> uhm, no idea
[19:14:31] <elmo401> I tell ya, though. I put this thing on my xmas wish list: http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacepilot-pro.html
[19:14:43] <elmo401> I used one the other day and wow, such fun ;)
[19:15:15] <JT-Shop> that worked well
[19:15:21] <JT-Shop> not even a spark
[19:15:52] <syyl_ws> hmm
[19:16:06] <syyl_ws> i tried a space pilot
[19:16:19] <syyl_ws> i prefer normal mouse and keyboard :D
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[19:23:24] <JT-Shop> anyone know how rotary phase converter manufacturers can claim "true 120° sine wave on all three phases" ?
[19:26:33] <Tom_itx> lie?
[19:26:47] <skunkKandT> why not.. 'True' is pretty vauge.. but it is generated analogilly ;) Should look pretty good I would think...
[19:27:37] <IchGucksLive> elmo401: yes on heekscad
[19:27:55] <elmo401> IchGucksLive: how is the oil spill? ;)
[19:28:00] <Tom_itx> convert it to dc then generate your own phases but i doubt anybody does that
[19:28:03] <elmo401> and how to you select ?
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[19:28:54] <IchGucksLive> elmo401: im one the devels list and do some of the postprozessing special the CRC
[19:29:29] <JT-Shop> is there anything else I can do after balancing the voltage between phases with run caps?
[19:29:46] <IchGucksLive> syyl_ws: space pilot is grat on PROE
[19:29:51] <Tom_itx> i think run caps are only good for startup?
[19:29:58] <Tom_itx> surge
[19:30:18] <syyl_ws> i work with proE :)
[19:30:30] <IchGucksLive> wildfire X ?
[19:30:35] <syyl_ws> wildfire 3, yes
[19:30:45] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, if you try it, make sure they're suitable for AC
[19:30:51] <IchGucksLive> then spacepilot is great
[19:30:57] <elmo401> I work with a few apps. solidworks, mastercam, gibbscam, heekscnc, cimco editor/backplot
[19:31:12] <elmo401> out of that list I think if I had to use only one app it would be GibbsCAM
[19:31:25] <elmo401> it does them all
[19:31:28] <IchGucksLive> mastercam has a good robot postprozewssor
[19:32:14] <IchGucksLive> gibbs cam does not give you the moving of the sketch part Physics like PROE
[19:32:22] <JT-Shop> Tom _itx yea they are run caps not start caps
[19:32:44] <IchGucksLive> elmo401: http://www.sammellothar.de/x-rahmen.mpg
[19:32:57] <IchGucksLive> this is what i like proE most
[19:33:27] <syyl_ws> i love the nc module of proE
[19:33:33] <JT-Shop> I have two almost identical rotary phase converters and the VMC runs much better off of one of them
[19:33:50] <syyl_ws> it has its moments
[19:33:55] <syyl_ws> but most of the time, its great
[19:34:07] <IchGucksLive> elmo401: http://mechmo.de/STCUT.mpg
[19:35:20] <IchGucksLive> syyl_ws: yes wildf 5 is more like solid with the pulling mouse events to connect
[19:36:09] <IchGucksLive> ok thats it for today ,by
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[19:36:53] <syyl_ws> i dont understand his last sentence
[19:36:55] <syyl_ws> Oo
[19:37:01] <syyl_ws> or he didnt understand mine
[19:37:51] * JT-Shop understands that as soon as this beer is done it's nap time :)
[19:40:59] <syyl_ws> my beer is almost like new...
[19:41:03] <syyl_ws> *prost*
[19:42:23] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, some cnc's just don't like phase inverters
[19:42:34] <Tom_itx> we had to change the transformer in a Fadal due to that
[19:42:43] <Tom_itx> run it off 220
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[19:48:44] <elmo401> im looking for a 220V single phase spindle drive&controller. Any places to look other then eBay?
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[20:04:35] <mrsun> gah where to get shims ... that is like U shaped =)
[20:04:46] <mrsun> (for old southbend copy lathe)
[20:04:48] <elmo401> cut washers
[20:04:52] <elmo401> :P
[20:05:31] <mrsun> precision in that is like +- a pancake isnt it? :P
[20:06:27] -!- syyl_tb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[20:06:43] <elmo401> everything is somewhere so it *is* precise, just not known.
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[20:27:51] <tom3p> u shape shims is common, slipped around bolt or dowel, buy shim stock, cut with shears, take edges off with fine stone
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[20:29:37] <tom3p> or mrsun meet mrshim http://www.solarstop.net/mrshims/alumplastic.asp
[20:34:03] <mrsun> gah and stupid inch system
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[21:08:01] <JT-Shop> there sure is a difference between the two rotary phase converters, the VMC likes the CHNC's phase converter much better
[21:17:44] <skunkKandT> no more spindle issues?
[21:19:31] <JT-Shop> back to original spindle issues, which at least works
[21:20:04] <JT-Shop> at least I can ramp it up to 6k now
[21:20:23] * JT-Shop is going to build a 15hp rotary phase converter to see if that helps
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[21:24:48] <syyl_ws> hmm
[21:25:14] <syyl_ws> does emc need a/b encoder signal for spindle control?
[21:25:24] <syyl_ws> or is one channel enough..?
[21:25:56] <pjm__> syyl u need 2 channels for direction
[21:26:29] <pjm__> but you can just measure speed with simple 1 channel encoder
[21:26:37] <syyl_ws> damn, as i feared...
[21:26:53] <pjm__> i use a simple 360ppr + index encoder on my mill
[21:27:00] <syyl_ws> i just burned one channel of the encoder, that will be used for the spindle...
[21:27:01] <pjm__> and it seems plenty for rigid tapping etc
[21:27:24] <syyl_ws> could bite my...
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[21:34:35] <skunkKandT> You could thread on a lathe with just a single channel + index. But you will not be able to rigid tap
[21:35:05] <syyl_ws> rigid tapping is the goal...
[21:35:07] <syyl_ws> damn
[21:35:14] * syyl_ws looks for a new encoder
[21:35:25] <pjm__> i picked mine off ebay for next to nothing
[21:35:35] <pjm__> is this for a stepper machine /
[21:35:36] <pjm__> ?
[21:35:39] <syyl_ws> yes
[21:35:51] <pjm__> ah yes good
[21:35:56] <pjm__> and what interface to the PC?
[21:36:05] <syyl_ws> mesa5i20
[21:36:07] <pjm__> ah good
[21:36:22] <pjm__> i'm using the 7i43
[21:36:32] <pjm__> and its excellent for proper encoders
[21:36:36] <pjm__> works a treat
[21:39:13] <bpuk> Evening all, pretty much finished with my lathe conversion, but am having problems with steppers stalling, anyone free to sanity check my reasoning on what could be causing the problem?
[21:39:40] <JT-Shop> we just ask the question around here
[21:41:19] <bpuk> fair enough :D My steppers are stalling (quickly at high speed, eventually at low speed) with the occasional 'clunk' while running. Problem occurs at full speed (not just when accelerating)
[21:43:01] <bpuk> interface is through a 5i20+7i47 - signal cables are shielded, problem occurs with another motor connected (no load). they don't stall (well, until I hit crazy speeds) with a hardware frequency generator.
[21:43:36] <pjm__> PSU for stepper drivers delivers enough current?
[21:44:16] <bpuk> 500W 50V switchmode PSU (providing 42v unregulated)
[21:44:29] <tom3p> do they run nicely with no load?( load may be too much ) is the stall a hi pitched whine? ( top vel IS too much) is the clunk seen at the coupler? ( bad voltage level on DIR line )
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[21:45:48] <bpuk> stall at both low/high speed with no load, pitch increases rapidly when it stalls, the clunk seems to be coming from the motor rather than the coupler
[21:46:56] <skunkKandT> bpuk: Have you run a latency test for a good period of time.. Clunk while running without stalling sounds like a latency issue
[21:47:38] <pjm__> i guess it would have to be a big latency issue to affect the 5i20
[21:47:45] <tom3p> yes, the sound >is< from the motor, usually exposed at the coupler, but check the level of the dir signal in both directions, i recently had a ssystem with 1.6v lo and 3.2hi ( not enuf esp lo )
[21:47:46] <pjm__> (i dont have one so am guessing)
[21:47:52] <skunkKandT> yes - aproaching 1ms or so
[21:48:16] <bpuk> Latency on the machine is showing about 16 us jitter - 100us max interval - no errors about unexpected RT delays. That's from about 2 hours - but it could be an odd jitter
[21:48:45] <bpuk> tom3p: ah, multimeter check good enough, or do I need to dig out my scope?
[21:48:48] <skunkKandT> 100us max interval?
[21:49:06] <tom3p> multimeter fine for dir, its a level not a pulsing
[21:49:07] <bpuk> skuntKandT: from memory, yes
[21:50:00] <tom3p> measure a simple linear move, not an arc :)
[21:50:45] <bpuk> well, I thought it might have been a noise issue to start with, so I'm down to the absolute minimum for testing (1 stepper, 1 drive, 1 PSU, plus the interface cards) - so very much only straight moves ;)
[21:54:05] <tom3p> stalling at all speeds may be the timing lengths step dir dirhold dirsetup
[21:54:32] <tom3p> whats the slow speed stall sound like?
[21:54:57] <bpuk> Much the same, lower pitch than the high speed, but sudden increase in pitch when it stalls
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[21:56:01] <bpuk> I've pulled the timings from the manufacturers datasheet (PM752 from zapp auto) - tried increasing the timing lengths beyond the stated with no effect (just in case they were being optimistic when writing the sheet)
[21:56:32] <tom3p> ok, the pitch is related to the frequency of the driving signal ( lower at slow speed) the squeel/growl itself is the driver not able to move the motor.
[21:56:56] <tom3p> what are the numbers inthe ini file for this axis?
[21:59:46] <bpuk> time to wish i had internet access in the workshop again - I've varied most of the numbers for that axis: servo period from 25us to 75us. Maxvel=40, MaxAccel=40 (tried both as low as 10, same problem). Ferror=1
[21:59:51] <JT-Shop> bpuk: do you have stepgen maxaccel and maxvel set 20% higher than your axis or do you have 0?
[22:00:25] <bpuk> and that's just reminded me... I very rarely have joint following errors - despite the ludicrously large Ferror
[22:00:50] <tom3p> what are the numbers for step dir dirhold dirsetup?
[22:01:06] <bpuk> JT: stepgen maxaccel/maxvel are 0
[22:01:07] <JT-Shop> servo period should be 100000
[22:01:10] <tom3p> dirsetup in the pdf for 752 is min 5000
[22:01:39] <JT-Shop> bpuk: those all need to be set to 20% greater than the axis for a stepper system
[22:01:45] <JT-Shop> let me get you an example
[22:01:56] <bpuk> base (I've increased higher before reverting) timings are DIRSETUP=5500 DIRHOLD=5500 STEPLIN=1500 STEPSPACE=1500
[22:02:29] <JT-Shop> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=configs/hm2-stepper/3x20-small.ini;h=3cbb204221576bc8ff97f2ea7f986ece7afd974a;hb=HEAD
[22:02:30] <tom3p> those look good
[22:02:40] <JT-Shop> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=configs/hm2-stepper/hm2-stepper.hal;h=8386bea2158660ed438139af1f60068e8ebf330d;hb=HEAD
[22:03:32] <JT-Shop> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.maxvel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAX_VEL
[22:04:03] <JT-Shop> MAX_VELOCITY = 10
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[22:04:09] <JT-Shop> STEPGEN_MAX_VEL = 12
[22:04:48] <bpuk> ah-ha
[22:05:54] <bpuk> So, check the DIR voltage level, increase the servo period to 100us, stepgen max base+20%
[22:05:59] <tom3p> is the problem that it clunks & stalls at low and hi speed?
[22:06:39] <bpuk> tom3p: yes, the clunking occurs for some time before a stall, but makes a louder clunk as it stalls
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[22:07:57] <tom3p> yes try those things, i lean away from the higher speed overhead as a problem ( the addl 20%) because the problem is across the whole range ( just me tho )
[22:08:54] <pcw_home> No this is a known problem with the HM2 stepgen driver you cnno use the o maxvel and o mxaccel values
[22:09:35] <pcw_home> (can not if you have any sizable jitter)
[22:10:08] <tom3p> hoo what? thnx didnt know that read that 0 was magical 5i20 set it by itself ( maybe no probe with that unit i sent in )
[22:10:31] <tom3p> where is this for me to read about?
[22:10:55] <bpuk> interesting, that pushes the maxvel/maxaccel change waaaay up my list :)
[22:11:22] <tom3p> and whats sizeable? i used dm150 and 5i20 & g540
[22:12:03] <pcw_home> 0 allows the internal loop complete freedom (which it abuses if there is much jitter)
[22:12:28] <tom3p> 10000 is much? 15000?
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[22:13:29] <pcw_home> its not absolute, it relative (say 20% more than machine limits)
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[22:15:15] <tom3p> the supplied cfgs for hm2-stepper say "setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.01.maxvel 0"
[22:15:23] <tom3p> imk? please chg those files
[22:15:29] <tom3p> kimk?
[22:15:34] <pcw_home> Its a fairly uncommon problem (maybe a couple percent max)
[22:16:20] <pcw_home> usually on high jitter machines (but the driver could be made much more robust against jitter)
[22:16:40] <tom3p> well thanks for the heads up, maybe that unit needs no repair
[22:17:01] <tom3p> (no that was a bad voltage level.. different problem )
[22:17:36] <pcw_home> Thats hardware too bad a software patch wont fix it...
[22:17:37] <tom3p> but this conversation may get me better top end
[22:17:50] <tom3p> thx
[22:18:39] <pcw_home> You can also bypass the driver and fix the problem by running the stepgens in velocity mode via a PID loop
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[22:20:49] <tom3p> i'd like to learn how to do that but dont understand (seems like vel mode has vel setpoint, while position is needed )
[22:21:02] <pcw_home> but the basic problem that needs to be addressed is making the stepgen driver believe the hardwares low jitter clock for short term
[22:21:03] <pcw_home> but obey EMCs tic for long term timing that way even 1 ms of jitter would not cause much trouble
[22:21:12] <JT-Shop> tom3p: I've all ready changed the configs a while back
[22:21:47] <pcw_home> PID loop stepgen is _exactly_ a velocity mode servo
[22:22:58] <tom3p> JT-Shop, yes a new build sez "setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.01.maxvel [AXIS_1]STEPGEN_MAX_VEL" thanks
[22:23:16] <bpuk> my base config was generated using pncconf from the livecd - I've since updated to cvs (mainly for convienience since I needed to write a comp component for the toolchanger) - the stepgen maxvel/maxaccel values were 0 from the get-go on that version. It presumably wouldn't do the same with the latest build
[22:24:17] <pcw_home> except that the FF1 term can now e adjusted to PPM accuracy
[22:24:19] <pcw_home> so the P/I terms can be quite small making EMCs tic jitter contriution to motion irregularities very minor
[22:24:21] <pcw_home> With pncconf you probably will have to set the parameters by hand but I am not sure
[22:25:02] <tom3p> pcw_home, thanks, is there an example for me to look at?
[22:26:19] <bpuk> I'm going to throw another (hopefully unrelated) issue into the channgel though. I'm using a simple 100 ppr photointerrupter encoder (A+Z) for the main spindle. works perfectly (+/- 1% or so) up to 1200 rpm, beyond that it goes nuts (drops to 0, then to 50000, etc) and the spindle ramps up to 2k (100%). it's currently connected via the 7i37TA, was planning to figure out how to connect it to the
[22:26:20] <bpuk> 7i47S tomorrow but....
[22:26:42] <pcw_home> sure use the hm2-servo config, replace the encoder PID input with the stepgen feeback and tune with 1 for FF1 and small P and very small I
[22:26:56] <tom3p> thanks
[22:28:32] <pcw_home> 7I37 inputs are not really suitible for high speeds
[22:28:47] <tom3p> bpuk did you try the new config? can you get a hdwr scope on the output of the photocoupler? ( maybe the signakl runs into itself? )
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[22:29:35] <bpuk> sadly the lathe is in the workshop (without internet access), where it's ruddy freezing. I'll try all the suggestions in the morning and report back
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[22:29:49] <tom3p> best o'luck!
[22:29:55] <pcw_home> 7I37 inouts are really for things like limit switches
[22:31:44] <bpuk> pcw: yup, I originally had it hooked up through a homebuilt board (which has now been replaced by the 7i47S) - I was getting wierd noise issues with that, so hooked it up ti the 7i37 - at which point it started behaving perfectly up to 1200 rpm, which was a huge improvement :D
[22:31:54] <pcw_home> bpuk how fast is the thread reading the encoder
[22:32:37] <bpuk> hmm, that'll be servo-period? tried it from 25us to 100us
[22:32:39] <JT-Shop> anything I can do to help smooth out power demands on my rotary phase converter? I can hear the motor grunt when the VMC does a rapid move...
[22:32:43] <pcw_home> (first question should have been) is it a software or hardware encoder
[22:32:59] <bpuk> hardware, 5i20 (modified bitfile at that point)
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[22:33:07] <JT-Shop> the phase converter motor grunts
[22:34:08] <pcw_home> Why are you running such a fast servo thread? I doubt 25 KHz is even possible
[22:34:26] <pcw_home> 40 KHz
[22:35:04] <bpuk> gah, dropped a zero - 2500 us
[22:35:15] <bpuk> (dropped 2 zeros)
[22:35:46] <pcw_home> Do you have a base thread?
[22:36:13] <bpuk> no base thread
[22:37:20] <pcw_home> Did you try 1 KHz? that should quarter your relative jitter
[22:37:55] <pcw_home> wait 2500 usec = 400 Hz?
[22:38:26] <bpuk> SERVO_PERIOD = 2500000
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[22:39:24] <pcw_home> any reason you didnt use the default 1 KHz?
[22:39:32] <bpuk> and now you've pointed it out my brain is shouting "d'oh!" at me
[22:40:36] <bpuk> at some point it got changed from the default value - but I can't remember why
[22:41:52] <bpuk> or, in the interests of honesty, if there was a reason why beyond 'hmm, I wonder if increasing the servo-period will help with the motors'
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[22:45:44] <pcw_home> Well try the maxaccel maxvel thing. I know the developer has not spent much time on this as he cannot duplicate the bug
[22:45:46] <pcw_home> it seems very system specific ( more commonly happening with 5I20s (which uses PCI clock so may have a small timebase error)
[22:45:48] <pcw_home> and systems with higher jitter
[22:46:21] <andypugh> Which bug be this?
[22:48:18] <JT-Shop> any thoughts on this? "An idler motor will give you a consistent frequency, but the phase will vary depending on how much the load causes the idler rotor to lag. The specifics I can't tell you, but I've read of cases where it lagged as much as 30 degrees under normal loads.
[22:48:20] <JT-Shop> There are probably a number of things to do to adjust that phase or reduce the variation in it. A larger idler motor would help. Or maybe
[22:48:21] <JT-Shop> a large inertia on that motor. "
[22:48:44] <JT-Shop> ^^ for a rotary phase converter
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[22:50:07] <andypugh> JT-Shop: A flywheel?
[22:50:19] <JT-Shop> that's what I'm thinking
[22:50:55] <pcw_home> Andy The HostMot2 stepgen driver has a bug that shows up occasionally on specific systems
[22:50:57] <pcw_home> it seems related to jitter and timebase differences (more common on 5I20 than other cards)
[22:50:59] <pcw_home> it also is usually (maybe always) fixed by setting resonable values of stepgen maxaccel (and perhaps stepgen maxvel)
[22:51:28] <JT-Shop> I can hear the converter motor grunt when a big load is applied like the start of a rapid move
[22:51:48] <bpuk> pcw: will do, I'm glad I've got so many suggestions as to what it could be, I was down to 'try a different computer'. Thanks!
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[22:52:01] <andypugh> Ah that one. The source code is full of comments and guesses.
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[22:53:43] <pcw_home> I think the real problem is that the driver just duplicates the software stepgen
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[22:54:50] <pcw_home> it really does not take full advantage of the fact that a rate generator type stepgen could be extremely robust in the face of large jitter
[22:55:39] <pcw_home> ( that is jitter should just cause a second order error during acceleration)
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[23:06:52] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i was wondering if you were reaching the limits of the phase inverter
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[23:07:26] <Tom_itx> the one we had had switches on the side so we could increase power as needed, not sure how it was wired internally
[23:07:43] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I might be, that's why a 15hp phase converter is on my mind
[23:07:56] <Tom_itx> a big flywheel might help
[23:08:00] <Tom_itx> never thought about that
[23:08:17] <JT-Shop> yea, just searching that came up
[23:08:35] <Tom_itx> easy enough to make/try one
[23:10:06] <Jymmm> Clothes shopping was painless this time =)
[23:15:54] <TekniQue> http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/392714_10150368259651662_576276661_8361416_1880381185_n.jpg
[23:15:57] <TekniQue> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/303881_10150368260106662_576276661_8361418_1085616381_n.jpg
[23:16:48] <Jymmm> Is that an inductive pickup?
[23:17:46] <TekniQue> hall effect
[23:17:52] <Jymmm> k
[23:21:04] <TekniQue> making a TIG welder
[23:21:39] <TekniQue> this board just interfaces the microcontroller board to the rest of the machine
[23:21:42] <Jymmm> Unless you have a bunch of old microwaves laying around, wouldn't buying be cheaper?
[23:22:16] <TekniQue> sure, buying would be cheaper
[23:22:25] <Jymmm> ok, just checking =)
[23:23:57] <TekniQue> I'm using an old Miller for a power supply, what I've built is just a rectifier, a big IGBT bridge, a HF starter and a controller
[23:24:30] <Jymmm> Cool, so just playing around
[23:24:39] <TekniQue> yup
[23:25:03] <TekniQue> and if it doesn't work it will at least make a good bang when the IGBTs pop
[23:25:27] <Jymmm> True =)
[23:25:30] <TekniQue> because the old miller is rated 225 amps
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[23:29:42] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, there is such a thing as having one too big too. that was the reason we had switches on the one we had
[23:29:56] <Tom_itx> i don't fully understand how they work
[23:30:04] <andypugh> IGBT to make AC?
[23:30:10] <TekniQue> andypugh: yes
[23:30:26] <TekniQue> and to modulate the current
[23:30:51] <andypugh> The difference between AC and DC arc welding is amazing.
[23:31:22] <andypugh> (That was a random aside, I was just reminded of the fact)
[23:31:44] <TekniQue> you need AC to tig aluminium
[23:32:39] <andypugh> Yes, I took the easy way out and bought an AC/DC TIG. It is a necessary, but not sufficient factor.
[23:32:56] <andypugh> (As in, I can still barely weld Aluminium)
[23:33:07] <TekniQue> you need lots of current to do alu also
[23:34:01] <TekniQue> 200 amps will do for most things
[23:34:09] <andypugh> Cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-MNy6-QanI&feature=player_embedded#!
[23:34:19] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yea, I don't think a 15hp is too big for the VMC loads... the 10hp just barely will run it
[23:34:45] <JT-Shop> but I wonder what the switches did on yours
[23:35:06] <JT-Shop> andypugh: that you?
[23:35:19] <Tom_itx> it increased the load capacity but i dunno how they did it
[23:35:44] <Tom_itx> i'd call your local electrician buddy and ask
[23:35:48] <andypugh> No, a guy from CNCzone who is the first to actually use bldc.comp to change Fanuc codes to Hall signals
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[23:38:25] <JT-Shop> unfortunately I know more about phase converters than he does, he is/was an industrial/commercial electrician
[23:38:32] <JT-Shop> pretty neat Andy
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[23:41:36] <Tom_L> http://www.phaseperfect.com/
[23:41:38] <Tom_L> http://www.phaseperfect.com/phasewhitepaper.htm
[23:41:52] <Tom_itx> that 2nd one goes more into detail i think
[23:43:26] <Tom_itx> the ones that claim perfect balance do what i said... convert to dc then back
[23:43:39] <Tom_itx> DSP
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[23:45:04] <JT-Shop> I wish I knew how to do that too... the whitepaper one is quite a lot to swallow
[23:47:18] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Why rotary convertor and not VFD?
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[23:48:08] <JT-Shop> single to three phase VFD's stop at 3hp and they also blow up the little black things littered about the EL cabinet
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[23:49:05] <andypugh> jsheerin is one of those guys who it is fun to help. You suggest something, he does is, if he can't make it work then it is generally a bug, you fix it, and a few hours later he has it all working.
[23:49:22] <JT-Shop> that is cool
[23:49:44] <JT-Shop> he seems to be an electrical wizard of some sort
[23:50:01] <andypugh> And very ambitious mechanically.
[23:50:34] <andypugh> I am trying to get him onto the EMC2 forums. I reckon if we could get him started on coding...
[23:51:05] <andypugh> (He appears to ride a Ducati)
[23:52:41] <Tom_L> itx netsplit dammit
[23:52:56] <Tom_L> If a single motor is always run at a constant load, and the rotary phase converter and its associated capacitor bank are carefully adjusted, then it is possible to achieve better than a 12% voltage imbalance as discussed in the example above and get acceptable operation of the motor. The procedure would involve setting up the system of phase converter, motor and load; then measuring the generated voltages and the currents in each motor phase. If the curr
[23:53:21] <Tom_L> what i said was that maybe your original capacitor idea wasn't such a bad one
[23:53:37] <Jymmm> Tom_L: you got cut off at: then measuring the generated voltages and the currents in each motor phase. If the curr
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[23:54:22] <Tom_L> well read the link then
[23:54:47] <Tom_L> If the current balance were unacceptable, then capacitors would need to be either added to, or taken out of the capacitor bank until the currents were balanced.
[23:55:02] <Jymmm> Tom_L: I wasn't listeing to you at all, just letting you know where you got cut off is all.
[23:55:12] <Tom_L> i'm rather used to it
[23:55:19] <Tom_L> :)
[23:55:20] <jdhNC> wouldn't caps only delay the phase?
[23:55:39] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Nah, I'm just doing other stuff at the same time is all.
[23:55:41] <Tom_L> i'm no expert
[23:55:43] <Tom_L> just quoting part of that article
[23:55:56] <Tom_L> jt was asking about adding caps
[23:56:01] <Tom_L> might work
[23:58:06] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, the little black things were likely diodes
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