#emc | Logs for 2011-11-03

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[00:05:52] <MrTrick> I need some finer bits for my router, to make thin cuts in perspex. What's the practical difference between parallel cutter bits and end mills?
[00:06:00] * MrTrick is considering http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/-/130520720264 and http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/-/180746797757
[00:08:47] <andypugh> Do they make end mills that small?
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[00:16:31] <andypugh> PCW: Did you say I should see the fault bits before a do-it with the V29 firmware?
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[00:17:12] <PCW> Andy a longer delay is probably needed. I though we had reset handshaking but dont due to a bug
[00:18:20] <PCW> remote fault bits should be visible if card is communicating but wont start (starts works but start doesnt)
[00:18:24] <andypugh> How about 2147483647 nS?
[00:18:38] <PCW> 100 ms should be enough
[00:20:00] <andypugh> No, nothing.
[00:20:08] <PCW> We never tested the reset stuff for live operation (only SSLBP firmware downloads)
[00:20:09] <PCW> YOu could also remove the reset stuff entirely if you driver does not crash SSLBP
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[00:20:53] <PCW> (anymore)
[00:21:01] <andypugh> Sorry, we seem be talking about different things now.
[00:21:28] <andypugh> I have a wait-for before reading the firmware version, that's all good.
[00:23:12] <PCW> OK how are you testing the remote faults? (8V on the 7I76 field power should give you a low voltage fault if you try a normal start)
[00:23:24] <MrTrick> andypugh: they do. If only the ebay sellers had variety packs, or even half/half.
[00:23:56] <andypugh> I am also, after setup-start and all the config stuff, doing a normal (0x900) start and checking the CS registers for errors. But even waiting 2 seconds after start I am not reading any faults back. After start and do-it there are faults (because I have them on 7V)
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[00:25:57] <PCW> ther is not need to wait for faults, as soon as the command completes (ms) the data register will indicate any failing channels
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[00:28:06] <andypugh> Data, or CS?
[00:29:08] <andypugh> Data sets bits for faulted channels, but each CS contains the fault flags, I think?
[00:29:08] <PCW> Data as always after a start command, data register is main go/nogo channel indicator
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[00:32:13] <PCW> yes after the command is clear data is a 1 bit fault indication, for more details, look at byte 0 (SSLBP faults) and byte 3 (remote faults IFF comms work)
[00:33:43] <andypugh> At this point I am just reading all CS registers for fault flags.
[00:35:01] <andypugh> But the only way I am getting a fault response is to not mask out byte2. (which I just did to prove something)
[00:35:43] <andypugh> (it gives me an "Unused Fault Error" which is what was expected.
[00:36:54] <PCW> so if set 7i76 field power to 7V and issue a start command I get 0x20 in CSR byte 3 (low voltage fault) and 0xC0 in CSR byte 0 (toomany and remote fault)
[00:38:06] <andypugh> Do I need to stop before start? I am in setup-start mode, and issuing a normal-start
[00:39:20] <PCW> Always...
[00:42:41] <andypugh> Aha!
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[00:44:41] <elmo40> I think a 2D plasma table is not the way to go... this just rocks! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_PA9eUd5tA
[00:47:23] <elmo40> honestly, how much more complicated is a 6-axis(5 should be enough) robot compared to a 2.5 axis table >_<
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[00:47:58] <skunkKandT> huh - prc is the brand laser we have at work. 1000w co2
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[00:53:16] <elmo40> linuxcnc and usb? how is the realtime? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GLZS_K_tZ8
[00:56:16] <andypugh> There is at least one USB EMC2 laser cutter out there, with a 7i43 and their own driver.
[00:57:22] <cradek> heh, nice spinning bear
[00:58:49] <tom3p> i cant listen, at library, whats he saying? i dont think usb can be realtime, just motion is not proof
[00:59:27] <MrTrick> elmo40: I don't think I'd want to be in the same room as something that could under computer control turn around and point at me... without large amounts of shielding!
[00:59:48] <elmo40> tom3p: I didn't hear anything
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[01:02:23] <andypugh> MrTrick: That shows a lack of confidence in your G-code.
[01:05:42] <MrTrick> not my g-code. :-)
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[01:09:15] <andypugh> PCW, well, a partial success, I now have 100% fault detection. Every time.
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[01:11:36] <elmo40> andypugh: does it make a horrid sound when it crashes? :-P
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[01:21:37] <MrTrick> Got my router hooked up to EMC2, can jog back and forth okay now. Under mach3, the pitch of the steppers was constant when travelling at speed. With EMC2, the pitch trembles a little bit - what might be going on?
[01:22:44] <andypugh> Did you do the latency test?
[01:23:07] <MrTrick> Yes, average jitter was about 13000.
[01:23:25] <andypugh> Worst-case jiter?
[01:23:26] <andypugh> 
[01:23:54] <MrTrick> Sorry, worst-case was 13000.
[01:24:02] <MrTrick> Don't recall exactly what the average was.
[01:24:11] <andypugh> OK, that sounds good.
[01:24:28] <MrTrick> This is a new EMC2/ubuntu10 installation, onto an ex-corp workstation (core2duo processor, not sure what else)
[01:25:30] <andypugh> Do you get the same with a G0 move?
[01:25:55] <MrTrick> haven't yet tried that.
[01:26:05] <MrTrick> (I'm at work now)
[01:26:30] <andypugh> And I should be asleep (due in work in 6 hours)
[01:26:37] <andypugh> Goodnight all.
[01:26:41] <PCW> Nite
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[01:52:33] <Quack_> hello
[01:52:50] <Quack_> can anyone recommend to me a nice lil mill that i can eventually CNC
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[01:56:20] <jdhNC> quack: I could recommend 10 of them.
[01:57:14] <Quack_> well i guess it depends on my budget
[01:57:26] <Quack_> i'm also very wary of buying used equipment because i don't know what "hot spots" to look for
[01:57:33] <Quack_> like i don't know how to inspect bearings, etc
[01:57:36] <Quack_> how to look for allignment
[01:57:45] <Quack_> i mean, i'm a total newbie at this
[01:57:55] <Quack_> but my mom and i really want to own a mill
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[01:58:17] <Quack_> let's assume we want to stay under $4000 initially
[01:58:17] <jdhNC> to mill what
[01:58:23] <Quack_> aluminum
[01:58:28] <Quack_> some copper, brass
[01:58:44] <Quack_> i suppose we could get into steel as well just because we do want to work on an electric car conversion
[01:58:51] <jdhNC> first thing, move to san diego
[01:59:07] <Quack_> why is that
[01:59:10] <Quack_> i am from san diego
[01:59:23] <jdhNC> I thought this conversation sounded familiar.
[01:59:25] <Quack_> but at the moment living in san francisco
[01:59:34] <Quack_> huh?
[02:00:11] <jdhNC> someone from SD was on last week wanting to know what mill to buy
[02:00:28] <Quack_> okay, and?
[02:00:53] <Tom_itx> i recomended a Mori Seki so you wouldn't need to upgrade so soon
[02:03:16] <Quack_> haha
[02:03:43] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MORI-SEIKI-VS100-50-CNC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-NEW-2005-/110743574137?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c8d4d679
[02:03:44] <Quack_> now that i see a mori seki i also see it's a real finger pincher
[02:04:17] <Tom_itx> that one should still be in good shape
[02:04:44] <jdhNC> someone should write a FF plugin that makes teh shortest url from the ebay item number
[02:04:59] <Quack_> that would be rather easy
[02:05:19] <Quack_> but why would it be a firefox plugin
[02:05:32] <Quack_> anyways yeah it's me the same kid from san diego
[02:05:36] <Quack_> sorry for being such a shady dude
[02:07:29] <jdhNC> do you want a mill to mill stuff, or do you want the challenge of converting something to cnc, or do you want something big, little, used, new
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[02:08:13] <Quack_> first i want to learn the basics of milling
[02:08:22] <Quack_> i probably wouldn't even need CNC for a while
[02:08:36] <Quack_> in fact i might find CNC to be a hindrance if it doesn't allow me to use the mill as normal by hand
[02:08:42] <Quack_> so no i don't want CNC for sure
[02:08:52] <Quack_> i definitely want a solid stand alone mill (this i learned last week)
[02:09:02] <jdhNC> big or little
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[02:10:10] <jdhNC> get a sable, use it for a year
[02:12:28] <Quack_> dude is the sable flat even?
[02:12:39] <Quack_> i heard stories how the sable's table was not perpendicular to the z-axis
[02:12:42] <Quack_> kinda scary bro
[02:13:38] <jdhNC> it's better than you are.
[02:13:56] <Quack_> i see
[02:14:07] <Quack_> so the flatness of the table isn't an issue
[02:14:16] <Quack_> i mean, it's gonna be good enough right
[02:14:26] <Quack_> also, is that eBay seller the only source for the Sable 2015?
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[02:14:34] <jdhNC> that's the least of your worries for months
[02:16:19] <Quack_> so what's the best place to get it, since u seem like the Sable expert?
[02:16:49] <jdhNC> afaik, ebay is the only place
[02:20:50] <Quack_> that seems pretty fishy
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[02:21:08] <Quack_> why don't you and i take a trip to taiwan and try to find the original source
[02:21:16] <Quack_> so we can take out this idiotic middleman on eBay
[02:21:28] <MrTrick> Quack_: How about the CNC 3040?
[02:21:45] <Quack_> can it be operated by hand as well?
[02:22:00] <Quack_> oh it's a router
[02:22:02] <Quack_> lol
[02:22:04] <MrTrick> more of a router than a mill, but would do non-ferrous metals.
[02:22:16] <MrTrick> And I've cut a few things from mild steel with it.
[02:22:58] <Quack_> that's nuts
[02:23:03] <Quack_> i wouldn't dare cut steel with it
[02:23:10] <Quack_> how much was it?
[02:24:39] <MrTrick> $1000, landed.
[02:24:58] <MrTrick> Managed to get a really good price actually, I think the seller typoed and accidentally set it free shipping.
[02:25:49] <Quack_> does that include the whole shebang though?
[02:25:54] <Quack_> not just the motors + table
[02:26:04] <Quack_> but the controller, the router, etc
[02:26:10] <MrTrick> yes, everything bar the computer.
[02:26:15] <jdhNC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1QZrtVcv5c
[02:26:23] <Quack_> and does it run from USB or ghey-ass parallel port like the Sable
[02:27:06] <MrTrick> everything is parallel, sorry.
[02:27:36] <MrTrick> I don't think you'll be able to avoid that. The only USB controllers I've seen have been (apparently) mach-only.
[02:27:54] <jdhNC> usb isn't realtime
[02:28:40] <MrTrick> http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/270723547636 <-- that was the one I bought, and took photos here: https://picasaweb.google.com/103939961494508322905/CNC3040TUnboxing#
[02:28:57] <Quack_> USB isn't real time? what does that mean
[02:29:08] <MrTrick> two types of controller...
[02:29:26] <Quack_> so does that mean i cannot use a USB to Parallel port bridge
[02:29:33] <Quack_> (my mobo doesn't have parallel port)
[02:29:38] <jdhNC> no
[02:29:43] <jdhNC> never work
[02:29:49] <Quack_> why not?
[02:29:50] <emcrules_w700> MrTrick: are the X Axis shafts supported on the CNC 3040
[02:29:57] <MrTrick> a) Lets the computer handle g-code -> motor movement translation. Means that the comms between computer/controller have to be *fast* and realtime.
[02:30:27] <Quack_> jdhNC why won't it work?
[02:30:29] <MrTrick> b) Handles the g-code translation internally. Doesn't matter what the computer/controller comms are.
[02:30:58] <MrTrick> Type b is not something you're going to see on any CNC device, unless you're paying north of 10-15k.
[02:31:11] <MrTrick> emcrules_w700: no, they're not.
[02:31:49] <jdhNC> MrTrick: does it sag in the middle?
[02:31:50] <emcrules_w700> Same with the y axis?
[02:31:55] <Quack_> dude USb is fast as hell
[02:32:10] <emcrules_w700> Fast but not deterministic
[02:32:21] <Quack_> im' lost
[02:32:30] <MrTrick> Quack_: that's not the issue. type a controllers accept motor control only as a sequence of pulses - step, direction.
[02:32:37] <jdhNC> see, the sable table is a long way from worrying about
[02:32:51] <Quack_> so i need to go buy an older computer
[02:32:58] <jdhNC> or a new one
[02:33:05] <Quack_> hard to find one with parallel port
[02:33:06] <jdhNC> or mesa cards
[02:33:14] <jdhNC> not really
[02:33:24] <MrTrick> Yes. Probably a good idea to buy another computer anyway, so that it's just for CNC control, and doesn't have a bunch of background tasks running.
[02:33:30] <jdhNC> get a $100 craigslist special
[02:33:51] <MrTrick> Just buy an ex-corporate machine - they're cheap, compact, and perfect for cnc control.
[02:34:04] <Quack_> ok.....
[02:34:04] <MrTrick> Even a P4 is probably fast enough.
[02:34:13] <Quack_> i have an old P4 but the LAN chip is blown
[02:35:06] <MrTrick> jdhNC: Not noticeably? I haven't yet gotten around to doing surface tests, etc. It seems all very solid, though - no noticeable backlash at all.
[02:35:44] <Quack_> would a PCIe -> parallel port converter be realtime?
[02:35:57] <jdhNC> my gantry routers is sort of similar, unsupported Y, it droops a few thou
[02:36:24] <jdhNC> pci p-port cards work, dunno about pcie
[02:36:32] <emcrules_w700> jdhNC: How much drop do you get and what is the span?
[02:37:05] <jdhNC> 16" travel, it drops 5-8 thou
[02:37:26] <emcrules_w700> ehat dia are the hard shafts?
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[02:37:38] <MrTrick> 20mm?
[02:37:38] <emcrules_w700> What^
[02:37:46] <jdhNC> that's my theory anyway, it's not as bad on the front and back, worse in the middle
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[02:38:49] <emcrules_w700> Cool I am working on a few lowcost designs right now and stayed away from the unsupported shaft idea. May look at it again.
[02:39:13] <jdhNC> I don't know if my rails sag, or if the table does
[02:39:44] <emcrules_w700> It would make sense that the shafts sag
[02:40:51] <jdhNC> supported rails, mounted to the table sounds good
[02:40:57] <emcrules_w700> if I stand on a 20mm shaft on a 48" spread they can bend about .250"
[02:41:06] <jdhNC> I wouldn't do that.
[02:41:28] <jdhNC> bearing blocks for supported 20mm shafts cost?
[02:41:30] <emcrules_w700> no not a good idea if you plan to use the shaft
[02:41:45] <emcrules_w700> import or thompson
[02:42:28] <emcrules_w700> 50-100$ for of the shelf in N/A
[02:42:47] <emcrules_w700> $20 for import
[02:42:50] <jdhNC> not too bad
[02:44:12] <jdhNC> hanging them put the weakest part under load though
[02:44:34] <emcrules_w700> ?
[02:45:16] <jdhNC> mounting them to the table...right side means the table moves
[02:45:35] <Quack_> so MrTrick what do you recommend the Sable or the CNC3040
[02:45:39] <emcrules_w700> ah
[02:45:55] <jdhNC> upside down means the gantry moves
[02:46:03] <Quack_> which is more accurate for PCB milling?
[02:46:33] <jdhNC> bolting the supported rail to the table would perhaps make both more rigid, and maybe cancel out some of the sag
[02:47:18] <MrTrick> Quack_: hard to say... I haven't yet cut PCBs on my 3040, but I'm confident it could do it. Haven't used or seen a Sable, so can't comment.
[02:47:30] <MrTrick> http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yoocnc.com%2F <-- check these out
[02:47:44] <jdhNC> is 30-40 the table travel in mm?
[02:51:08] <Quack_> how much 2750 yuan
[02:51:39] <emcrules_w700> divide by 6
[02:51:49] <emcrules_w700> or seven
[02:52:02] <emcrules_w700> it's some where between there
[02:52:04] <Quack_> $400 or so
[02:52:16] <emcrules_w700> Plus shipping
[02:52:37] <emcrules_w700> add on anothe 300 or so
[02:52:39] <Quack_> and where can i get it from?
[02:52:50] <Quack_> omg after shipping it's so not worth it
[02:52:52] <emcrules_w700> china
[02:53:03] <Quack_> i'm better off taking a trip to china and bringing it back with me
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[02:53:36] <emcrules_w700> im guessing on the shipping but it would be close
[02:53:47] <MrTrick_> The actual table is larger, but the spindle head can't reach to the very edge of the table.
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[02:54:59] <emcrules_w700> You could build that table here in N/A for 500
[02:55:07] <MrTrick_> at a certain level, all these machines look similar, but the sable 2015 looks to be a yoocnc design, or at least very close. (and who knows whether it was yoocnc -> sable or vice versa)
[02:55:21] MrTrick_ is now known as MrTrick
[02:56:01] <Quack_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3020-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-m6-/370532768919?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5645795c97
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[02:56:44] <Quack_> hey MrTrick can you find out for me if you can mill 100 micron traces
[02:56:53] <emcrules_w700> What was that link again
[02:57:14] <jdhNC> why would you want to mill 100 micron traces?
[02:57:22] <Quack_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3020-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-m6-/370532768919?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5645795c97
[02:57:30] <Quack_> he's right the shipping it ginormous
[02:57:33] <MrTrick> Quack_: I should do some pcb trace testing.
[02:57:39] <Quack_> i'll pay you to do it
[02:57:46] <Quack_> i can pay pal you the cost of the bit
[02:57:51] <Quack_> and test PCB board
[02:58:01] <Quack_> i want to know if it can do what i want otherwise why waste my time getting lesser junk
[02:58:10] <Quack_> i'd rather spend my money going straight for a bridgeport or what not
[02:58:20] <MrTrick> Quack_: shipping charges is just the pricing model - some sellers go high on the price with free shipping, others go low and charge exhorbitant shipping rates.
[02:59:10] <emcrules_w700> that one is in the US
[02:59:46] <Quack_> you're right about that
[02:59:54] <Quack_> but not in this case
[02:59:57] <MrTrick> emcrules_w700: No. no it's not. ^_^
[03:00:12] <Quack_> the yoocnc is actually 2750 yuan
[03:00:39] <emcrules_w700> AH the seller is being cheekey
[03:01:02] <Quack_> but for $762 i actually get the router and controller and all that jazz
[03:01:12] <emcrules_w700> Cant belive the crap that is being sold on ebay
[03:01:28] <MrTrick> Quack_: sorry, should explain - yoocnc makes the controller boards inside my control box, I suspect they might be the original manufacturer for all these chinese routers.
[03:01:29] <emcrules_w700> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Wood-Carver-CNC-Router-V-cutting-3D-machine-/170707074308?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3924293067206163156
[03:03:29] <Quack_> do you like the yoocnc control hardware so far?
[03:03:34] <Quack_> do you think it's electrically solid?
[03:04:04] <Quack_> also, how do you know it's made by yoocnc
[03:04:50] <MrTrick> well, I'm not 100% certain (could be a stolen silksceen), but https://picasaweb.google.com/103939961494508322905/CNC3040TUnboxing#5654074905002268002
[03:06:20] <MrTrick> I'm very impressed with the control hardware, actually.
[03:06:33] <Quack_> can you take a picture of it
[03:06:43] <Quack_> (the internals of course, ie the baord itself)
[03:06:58] <MrTrick> as you can see - proper connectors between boards, good layout.
[03:07:00] <Quack_> oh that's it ok
[03:07:07] <MrTrick> Look at the picasa link, lots of photos.
[03:08:27] <MrTrick> I've started modifying things, of course. :-D I soldered a 10-pin header on to the control board so I can feed limit switch signals back to the computer, and cut a DB9-shaped hole in the back of the control box.
[03:08:59] <Quack_> what's "limit switch signals"
[03:09:16] <MrTrick> My overall impression of the 3040 so far has been; This is a basic good quality machine.
[03:10:00] <MrTrick> It doesn't have lots of the nice bells and whistles that $15,000 machines do, but that's only to be expected.
[03:10:55] <Quack_> is the 3040 table also made by yoocnc
[03:10:58] <Quack_> or is it australian
[03:12:13] <MrTrick> I suspect it's *all* chinese.
[03:12:26] <Quack_> not all chinese is created equal
[03:12:49] <Quack_> if toyota set up shop in china the cars would still be built just as well if not better
[03:13:07] <MrTrick> There was an australian reseller of the 3020 and 3040 machines, with a promise of local support, and a 50% profit margin.
[03:14:06] <MrTrick> There's also a 3040Z (I think mine's technically a 3040T) that is interesting - rather than put the motor on the spindle, it uses a flex cable.
[03:14:13] <MrTrick> Some versions come with a 4th axis.
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[03:14:46] <MrTrick> The 6040 machines typically come with an 800W water-cooled spindle, and do have fully-supported X rails.
[03:15:03] <Quack_> that's overkill for PCB milling
[03:16:28] <Quack_> the accuracy question is killing me
[03:16:47] <Quack_> i want to know if these tabletop routers are accurate down to on thousandth or so
[03:19:38] <MrTrick> well, consider that there are 200 steps/rev.... and each rev is 4.0mm
[03:20:09] <Quack_> well i mean that doesn't tell you how accurate it is due to slop
[03:20:22] <Quack_> i mean ultimately it's always the slop in the guides that determines the accuracy probably? right?
[03:20:51] <MrTrick> Then the ideal maximum resolution (without using microstepping) would be 0.02mm.
[03:21:18] <MrTrick> Yes, if there is any slop or backlash, or runout, the resolution will be decreased.
[03:21:31] <MrTrick> I haven't measured the runout yet.
[03:22:01] <jdhNC> what pitch screw
[03:22:39] <MrTrick> EMC asked me that yesterday, so I had to go measure it. As near as I can tell, 4.0 mm/rev
[03:23:24] <Quack_> 0.02mm = 20 microns
[03:23:39] <Quack_> but let's be honest only the best MITS machines do 20 micron traces repeatably
[03:23:54] <Quack_> so i HIGHLY doubt that the sable or 3040 is gonna be able to match that
[03:24:21] <Quack_> i think we'd be lucky to get 4 thou or about 100 microns
[03:25:21] <Quack_> (repeatable 100 micron copper trace widths)
[03:28:54] <MrTrick> I'll see how I go. I do have a limited number of bits at the moment - the engraving bits I have are the 45 deg type, but I'm not sure of their cutting width. (they come to a sharp point, but sweep out a truncated conical shape when cutting)
[03:29:49] <Quack_> well lemme know if pay pal'ing you some dinero helps with the testing
[03:30:00] <Quack_> thanks man, i gotta go prep dinner real quick before it's too late
[03:30:33] <Quack_> i really wanna be able to do some RF type PCB stuff
[03:30:48] <Quack_> where trace width and spacing and all that really matters
[03:32:47] <Quack_> also is there a way to level the 3040's table so that's it's perpendicular to the z-axis? are there adjustment screws?
[03:35:19] <MrTrick> There is not. I believe the proper way to do that is to have a layer of MDF, and use a face mill to level it relative to the spindle.
[03:35:35] <MrTrick> You need that anyway, to be able to drill or cut anything without damaging the table.
[03:36:26] <Quack_> ahh ok but it is more or less level when shipped i'm assuming
[03:36:29] <MrTrick> I will do some PCB tests at some stage, and publish the results.
[03:36:34] <Quack_> if the PCB i'm doing is small enough it won't matter much
[03:36:40] <Quack_> it will be "locally " flat enough
[03:36:40] <MrTrick> Yes, as I said it seems to be very solid.
[03:36:51] <Quack_> where do you live
[03:36:57] <Quack_> i can come and help you and sponsor that testing
[03:37:51] <Quack_> ok forgive my forwardness
[03:37:52] <Quack_> anyways brb
[03:38:40] <MrTrick> hehe wrong hemisphere.
[03:39:31] <Quack_> you're in australia i take it then
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[03:42:27] <MrTrick> yep.
[03:42:38] <MrTrick> Hmm, this is an interesting beastie: http://www.douglasmachine.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=91&idproduct=449#details
[03:42:42] <Quack_> all the better
[03:43:03] <Quack_> could it actually be american made
[03:44:12] <MrTrick> stranger things have happened. :-P
[03:44:45] <MrTrick> Seems to be an internal controller - eg you put a USB stick in with the data files on board.
[03:45:13] <MrTrick> not perfect though; spindle's a little underpowered, uses bushings instead of linear bearings.
[03:45:20] <MrTrick> Still, worth a look.
[03:49:08] <Quack_> yah the bushings ai'nt pro
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[04:46:48] <Quack_> so what's going on guys
[04:46:58] <Quack_> i really need to find out how to get a bridgeport for $1250
[04:47:07] <Quack_> (this is aside from the whole PCB router thing)
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[12:01:17] <awallin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O88o_cPO1fo&feature=youtube_gdata
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[13:09:37] <archivist> his base frame has little bending strength
[13:11:14] <archivist> I have a dti on a base here where a little finger on the column shows deflection
[13:11:50] <archivist> dti is 100000 of an inch though
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[13:16:57] <Valen> how much deflection would be "Acceptable" in a decent metal cutting mill with how much load applied?
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[13:48:26] <skunkworks> heh - I cannot beleive how much I rigid tap now..
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[14:52:54] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Is that what the kids are calling it these days after getting their hands on some viagra
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[15:34:15] <Rogge> Door switch question: I'd like to stop the spindle and feedhold a program on my lathe when I open the door (similar to my Haas mill). I looked through the documentation but I couldn't find a roadmap for doing this. Can someone point me in the right direction?
[15:39:19] <Jymmm> Rogge: PAUSE??? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p0kVxce6PKMJ:www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,47/id,9518/lang,french/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
[15:41:35] <Jymmm> alex_joni: the french version of this url is blank fwiw http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,47/id,9518/lang,english/ google cache shows the exploit
[15:44:33] <Jymmm> Rogge: Here's the non-cached version http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,47/id,9518/lang,english/
[15:44:47] <Rogge> Jymmm - thanks... then I would just tie the spindle enable to the same input?
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[15:45:57] <Jymmm> Rogge: I would speak to JT when he's around, he would have a better idea of the specifics.
[15:46:07] <Rogge> Will do - thanks!
[15:46:14] <Rogge> THis gives me some research to do in the meantime.
[15:47:25] <skunkworks> Rogge: tormach?
[15:47:44] <Jymmm> Rogge: If it doesn't already do it, *I* would add a "RESUME" button as well. If you have the lid open, and the switch broke, you wouldn't want the program/spindel to resume while your paws are in there.
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[15:48:25] <Rogge> Skunkworks: yep. JUst getting the feet wet.
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[15:49:47] <skunkworks> Rogge: cool - normally tormach's are mach based.
[15:51:05] <Rogge> Tormach does sell a dual boot controller w/ EMC configs for their machines... but most guys are using mach.
[15:53:45] <skunkworks> crazy ;)
[15:54:49] <skunkworks> you need to setup a spindle encoder and take some videos rigid tapping ;)
[15:57:41] <Jymmm> skunkworks: You need to get over your rigid tapping fetish ;)
[15:57:59] <Rogge> Ha ha!
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[15:58:39] <Rogge> Even on my old Haas mini we would use a tension compression tapping head on occasion.
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[15:59:54] <skunkworks> That is cheating..
[16:00:17] <Rogge> I suppose... but much more forgiving, esp on smaller taps
[16:00:18] <skunkworks> I just think it is so cool!
[16:00:30] <Rogge> Agreed...
[16:00:44] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Tis ok, I'm just pulling your chain
[16:01:28] <skunkworks> The way emc gears the spindle to the axis - there is no need for 'forgiveness'
[16:02:13] <Rogge> That's what the guys at Haas said. We still broke fewer taps with the T/C head.
[16:02:51] <skunkworks> interesting.
[16:03:05] <Rogge> Back to work for me. Thanks for the pause thread Jymmm!
[16:03:17] <Jymmm> np
[16:03:52] <skunkworks> Rogge: and then you can do this http://youtu.be/jAcFeVlftrw
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[16:05:44] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Cool, I'll be sending you all my tapping stuff
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[16:12:44] <skunkworks> I tapped some 10-32's recently. it is really funning watching that huge machine tapping a tiny hole
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[16:27:29] <skunkworks> why is the gantry setup such an issue? I would think if you are using gantry kins - you would home the 2 joints at the same time and have them home to index. Yes - I could see it being a 'little' off while it homes but once each axis homes - they will be perfectly aligned.
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[16:41:22] <cradek> skunkworks: I do 4-40 rigid, but still hand tap 2-56. I don't know if spiral points are even available that small.
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[16:44:35] <Jymmm> cradek: what are you using 2-56 for?
[16:44:45] <cradek> Jymmm: 2-56 screws
[16:45:08] <Jymmm> cradek: Right, what application/project?
[16:45:18] <cradek> last time I used them was a fixture mounting a microswitch
[16:45:28] <Jymmm> ah
[16:45:44] <cradek> #3 would fit through with minor force, but then I would have had to make the holes perfect.
[16:46:20] <Jymmm> cradek: First time I ever saw/used 2-56 was on my laser, so just curious as to what else uses that size =)
[16:48:14] <Jymmm> cradek: have you been mail ordering the screws or buy locally?
[16:50:53] <cradek> neither, I have hundreds or thousands of them, from who-knows-where
[16:51:09] <cradek> it's a very common size in small things
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[16:51:32] <Jymmm> cradek: It's been difficult to find here ironically.
[16:51:41] <cradek> I could get them in huge quantity locally (Fastenal) but for smaller I'd probably try mail order
[16:52:07] <Jymmm> cradek: fastenal stocks 256 on the shelf?
[16:52:10] <Jymmm> 2-56
[16:52:10] <syyl_> what is the diameter of a 2-56 screw?
[16:52:27] <syyl_> i'm not familiar with inch-threads/screws
[16:52:28] <Jymmm> || <--------- syyl_
[16:52:39] <DaViruz> eleven?
[16:52:46] <cradek> about 0.085
[16:52:53] <DaViruz> eleven microfurlongs
[16:52:58] <syyl_> *grabs his calculator*
[16:53:09] <DaViruz> cradek: is it arbitrary?
[16:53:12] <Jymmm> DaViruz: parsecs
[16:53:15] <syyl_> over 2mm
[16:53:21] <syyl_> thats...
[16:53:22] <syyl_> huge Oo
[16:53:58] <DaViruz> the smallest tap i've seen was M0.3
[16:54:02] <DaViruz> thats crazy
[16:54:33] <syyl_> m1 is not unusual for me..
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[16:55:51] <cradek> M1 is even smaller than 0-80. in what do you use those?
[16:56:28] <DaViruz> scale model trains?
[16:56:39] <DaViruz> those guys use a lot of weird fastners
[16:56:52] <DaViruz> small screws which are made to match the scale of large ones and stuff like that
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[16:57:21] <syyl_> we build sometimes prototypes of power breakers and GFIs, there are small screws like that not unusual
[16:59:06] <cradek> DaViruz: the sizes are not quite arbitrary. #2 is (2 * 0.013) + 0.060
[16:59:29] <skunkworks> cradek: cool - yah -t he 10-32 was a spiral tap. Have no clue where it came from but it sure cuts nice - even by hand
[16:59:37] <DaViruz> oh.
[16:59:46] <syyl_> schmallest milling cutter i use is 0,4mm, 8mm long..
[16:59:52] <syyl_> we do a lot of that miniature stuff
[17:00:05] <cradek> after #12 (which is almost 1/4 inch) they usually switch to fractional inches.
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[17:01:51] <Jymmm> syyl_: You have to screw down 100 m1 screws, you have 60 seconds... GO!
[17:02:12] <syyl_> its a prototyping shop ;)
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[17:02:25] <Jymmm> syyl_: Make that 52s
[17:02:26] <syyl_> no time pressure threr
[17:02:27] <syyl_> ;)
[17:03:22] -!- toastydeath has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[17:03:27] <syyl_> if someone pushes us like that, we wouldnt even have started by now ;)
[17:04:00] <Jymmm> syyl_: 14s remaining
[17:04:05] <syyl_> hmm
[17:04:08] <syyl_> maybe
[17:04:22] <Jymmm> syyl_: GIT ER DONE!
[17:04:23] <syyl_> i could get a cup of coffee before start...
[17:09:51] <Quack_> talk to me guys
[17:10:03] <jdhNC> hey, you should get a mill
[17:10:10] <jdhNC> one that does everything you want
[17:10:14] <syyl_> every household needs a mill
[17:10:22] <skunkworks> and a lathe
[17:10:23] <Quack_> but can a b-port do PCB routing
[17:10:24] <syyl_> (and a lathe)
[17:10:32] <syyl_> thanks, skunkworks ;)
[17:10:46] <syyl_> why not?
[17:10:54] <skunkworks> Quack_: if it is tight enough... it will be pretty slow.
[17:11:04] <syyl_> add a highspeed spindle and the bport will be suitable for that...
[17:11:14] <Quack_> yeah thought so
[17:11:26] <Quack_> besides i probably want a non-CNC'd bridge port for quite a while
[17:11:33] <Quack_> so i can practicando
[17:11:37] <jdhNC> right, so buy one of each.
[17:11:42] <jdhNC> what do you do, in real life?
[17:11:48] <Quack_> yeh that's what i figured
[17:11:52] <Quack_> can i come visit you in NC?
[17:11:58] <jdhNC> sure
[17:12:08] <Quack_> do you have a shop yourself or just your garage?
[17:12:16] <jdhNC> just a garage
[17:12:23] <Quack_> perfect
[17:12:26] <jdhNC> just a small part of garage
[17:12:34] <Quack_> and you have a b-port?
[17:12:52] <jdhNC> no, my garage isn't that big
[17:13:05] <syyl_> (i was thinking, that a bridgeport belongs to every american household)
[17:13:06] <syyl_> Oo
[17:13:37] <Quack_> haha umm if everyone had a bridgeport in their garage, america would probably dominate the world technologically
[17:13:53] <skunkworks> some would just use them as planters
[17:13:59] <Quack_> so what do you have then jdhNC?
[17:14:03] <Jymmm> skunkworks++++++
[17:14:23] <jdhNC> I have a cheap cnc gantry router
[17:15:24] <Quack_> which explains why you kept recommending a gantry router to me....so does it have a 4th axis? ie a swivel head or what not?
[17:15:33] <jdhNC> no
[17:15:49] <Quack_> so what do you make with it? i'd imagine you can't make complex shapes with your router
[17:15:55] <jdhNC> I recommend something easy and cheap because you have no idea what you want.
[17:16:22] <Quack_> yeah a PCB router would be easy and cheap
[17:16:26] <Quack_> i wish it were even cheaper though
[17:16:36] <jdhNC> I mainly make boat stuff and diving stuff
[17:16:42] <Quack_> do you have a sailboat?
[17:16:51] <Quack_> or a boston whaler
[17:16:55] <jdhNC> few plaques, engraved stuff, etc.
[17:17:00] <jdhNC> neither.
[17:17:01] <syyl_> you can do pretty complex stuff with a router..
[17:17:03] <syyl_> no problem
[17:17:24] <Quack_> cool man, you sound like the guy i want to meet
[17:17:33] <Quack_> i wanna get into diving and boats too eventually
[17:17:58] <Quack_> well yesterday this gal named esmirelda came on and was talking about a router with a 4th axis
[17:18:09] <Quack_> it was some german made piece that looked pretty sweet but overpriced
[17:18:23] <jdhNC> gal
[17:18:27] <jdhNC> on the internette
[17:18:35] <Quack_> LoL
[17:18:40] <jdhNC> in a channel dedicated to linux cnc
[17:18:55] <jdhNC> check the hardware before you get too involved
[17:19:22] <pcw_home> Ha Ha!
[17:20:43] <Quack_> haha?
[17:21:05] <Quack_> dude she's german probably so i mean it's not a big deal
[17:21:16] <Quack_> wouldn't have a chance with her anyways
[17:22:01] <syyl_> the machine yesterday?
[17:22:04] <syyl_> that was a bzt
[17:22:18] <Quack_> german made
[17:22:22] <syyl_> http://www.bzt-cnc.de/en
[17:22:49] <syyl_> not what i understand as a great machine
[17:22:56] <syyl_> saw them on a trade show...
[17:23:07] <Quack_> oh ok
[17:23:11] <Quack_> they don't look robust to me
[17:23:17] <Quack_> i wouldn't try milling anything with them
[17:23:22] <Quack_> i'd rather have a tormach or something
[17:23:37] <syyl_> tormach look interesting to me
[17:23:38] <Quack_> as a strict router i'm sure they're ifne
[17:23:55] <syyl_> or a syil
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[17:26:23] <Quack_> i am gonna go get a demo of the tormach
[17:26:28] <Quack_> but it's a bit out of my price range
[17:26:40] <Quack_> i was hoping to get a machine for $2k
[17:26:58] <Quack_> and then get some nice vices for it, some nice bits, etc....for maybe like $400 more
[17:26:58] <syyl_> a used haas wouldnt be so far away from a tormach, or am i wrong?
[17:27:21] <Quack_> uhh yeah it would
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[17:28:51] <Quack_> well i dunno
[17:29:01] <Quack_> i find it hard to buy used machine equipment
[17:29:09] <Quack_> it seems hard to negotiate with these ppl
[17:29:49] <jdhNC> make offer, they accept or walk away.
[17:30:47] <Quack_> well with cars i can sit there and nickel and dime them
[17:30:52] <Quack_> because i do know the basics about cars
[17:31:04] <Quack_> but i can't justify my low ball offer on a used mill because i don't know what i'm looking for
[17:31:05] <jdhNC> what do you do in real life?
[17:31:17] <Quack_> electronics
[17:31:48] <Quack_> trained as EE
[17:32:17] <jdhNC> it's not a low ball offer, it is what you are willing to pay. As the one offering cash, your reasons for the price you are willing to pay are your own. Not their concern.
[17:32:37] <jdhNC> so, you have an EE degree, and you want a mill to make electric cars?
[17:33:06] <Quack_> i just wanna mess around in the garage
[17:33:15] <Quack_> both myself and my mom have some ideas
[17:33:45] <jdhNC> you should buy my spare router frame :)
[17:33:52] <Quack_> ya'know i never had that mentality when i bought used stuff
[17:34:04] <Quack_> your spare router frame would probably just be a headache
[17:34:05] <jdhNC> some cheap steppers, cheap chinese driver, cheap pc
[17:34:16] <Quack_> because i don't have much time to mess around as soon as i'm off vacation
[17:34:19] <jdhNC> it is a headache for me. I have no room for it.
[17:34:36] <Quack_> i want something pre-assembled like the Sable
[17:37:32] <Quack_> damn i wish i had kept in touch w/ that guy i bought the welder from
[17:38:50] <Quack_> hey jdhNC let's invent a sick ass scuba diving flashlight
[17:39:00] <Quack_> let's do it, because i'm sure we can make lots of bucks
[17:39:39] <jdhNC> you obviously don't understand the market, or how niche it is.
[17:40:10] <Quack_> i do because i read the scuba magazines
[17:40:40] <jdhNC> I don't
[17:40:55] <jdhNC> but, I do own several high end dive lights.
[17:42:00] <Quack_> well we can machine a better one for those niche markets
[17:42:09] <Quack_> i've seen the competition man. ...they make a killing
[17:42:21] <jdhNC> who is the competition?
[17:42:29] <Quack_> i dunno i'll have to go dig up my mags
[17:42:34] <Quack_> forgot the names i saw
[17:43:23] <jdhNC> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3501&category=1241045623
[17:43:48] <Quack_> $4k !! and i can't control it manually easily
[17:43:51] <jdhNC> I have a $1500 light, $900, $600
[17:44:05] <jdhNC> and about 5 or 6 $100 ones
[17:44:05] <Quack_> so let's get into the scuba biz
[17:44:15] <Quack_> we can sell our flashlights for $500
[17:44:26] <Quack_> i'll get the CNC machine
[17:44:28] <jdhNC> to whom?
[17:44:29] <Quack_> you can help on the marketing side
[17:44:36] <jdhNC> directly? dealer network?
[17:44:41] <Quack_> we'll see
[17:44:45] <jdhNC> warranty?
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[17:44:56] <Quack_> oh boy....this is complicated
[17:44:58] <jdhNC> what happens when joe-bob floods his light, do you fix it for free.
[17:45:32] <Quack_> i dunno haha
[17:45:33] <jdhNC> "I bought one of those quack lights, it flooded on the first dive and those guys woudln't even fix it"
[17:45:41] <Quack_> i'll probably just have a hardline stance on returns and shit
[17:46:06] <Quack_> let the haters hate, in the mean time we'll have 1000 other satisfied customers
[17:46:11] <jdhNC> the best sellers (and most expensive) have excellent customer service and warranty stuff
[17:46:15] <Quack_> one or two dissatisifed ones won't ruin the pot
[17:46:55] <Quack_> we'll get there eventually
[17:47:04] <Quack_> first we just need to have a decent insurance plan so we can't get sued
[17:47:09] <jdhNC> bulb is $220, ballast is $150
[17:47:10] <Quack_> and wipe out our whole company
[17:47:23] <jdhNC> battery is $200-400
[17:48:21] <Quack_> it is?
[17:48:31] <Quack_> holy crap those batts are pricey
[17:49:18] <jdhNC> most divers are dirt cheap
[17:50:08] <Quack_> true but there's some willing to drop tons of money on it
[17:50:23] <jdhNC> most don't need lights
[17:50:27] <jdhNC> much less expensive lights
[17:50:39] <Quack_> really
[17:50:43] <Quack_> darn ok you shot down my idea
[17:50:48] <Quack_> i guess that's what i wanted
[17:50:55] <Quack_> maybe now i'll quit thinking about it
[17:51:22] <Quack_> thanks man brb
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[17:53:52] <A2Sheds> $4295.00 for the LittleMachineShop!?
[17:56:30] <Quack_> rip off huh?
[17:56:38] <Quack_> the tormach is like $6.x k
[17:56:53] <Quack_> i want the tormach but it's outta my price range
[17:57:01] <A2Sheds> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4263&category=1241045623 $8480.00
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[17:58:54] <A2Sheds> I come across working Mazaks for ~$4K
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[18:09:17] <andypugh> A2Sheds: Post me one?
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[18:34:14] <awallin> is that series 3 something new?
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[18:36:24] <Danimal_garage> i would never pay even half that for that mill
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[18:39:39] <andypugh> I am prepared to believe it is twice as good as the others I have seen at half the price.
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[18:41:55] <Danimal_garage> i am prepared to believe that it's more or less a useless machine, other than for hobby stuff.
[18:41:57] <A2Sheds> andypugh: do you think we could disguise it in paper and try to get the book bulk rate?
[18:42:30] <Danimal_garage> and for hobby stuff, 9k is a bit steep
[18:42:33] <andypugh> Danimal_garage: Oh, I am prepared to believe that too.
[18:42:56] <andypugh> I haven't seen a Tormach, though they have invited us round for an EMC2-Fest
[18:46:49] <Danimal_garage> i suspect the people who buy machines like that run it in white lab coats
[18:47:16] <andypugh> You make that sound like a bad thing.
[18:47:35] <Danimal_garage> haha hardly!
[18:47:47] <Danimal_garage> for 9k it comes with steppers? wow
[18:47:50] * andypugh is going to buy a lab coat, and a tie, to annoy Danimal_garage
[18:48:10] <cradek> to my eye, tormach is the cream of the chinese import crop
[18:48:46] <skunkworks> for that size - I agree.
[18:48:50] <cradek> the have some unfortunate design decisions based on mach's limitations, especially their lathe
[18:49:01] <cradek> but the iron seems good
[18:49:03] <andypugh> cradek seems to have mastered the art of "Damning with faint praise"
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[18:49:15] <Danimal_garage> ha
[18:49:31] <IchGucksLive> HI all !
[18:49:39] <IchGucksLive> I DID it F
[18:49:42] <Danimal_garage> that's like saying it's the cutest of all the fat chicks
[18:49:46] <skunkworks> with emc and servos - that would be one heck of a machine.. (and say a mesa card)
[18:49:51] <cradek> I didn't mean to - they really have a lot of good design behind them, and I understand they monitor the chinese factories that make them very closely
[18:49:57] <IchGucksLive> First view of the running pendand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_4S24dW8w
[18:50:32] <Danimal_garage> skunkworks: you can make those in your mill out of one solid piece of iron
[18:50:42] <skunkworks> sure! ;)
[18:50:59] <andypugh> IchGucksLive: The animated gantry is a bit much, but I guess it is as good a "heartbeat" as any.
[18:51:02] <cradek> their line of tooling is quite extensive
[18:51:29] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: B)
[18:52:27] <skunkworks> I love the 'projekt' spelling. IchGucksLive: very cool!
[18:52:46] <IchGucksLive> B)
[18:54:16] <Danimal_garage> i wonder where a good place would be to sell this extra immersion chiller i have
[18:54:49] <andypugh> IchGucksLive: Is that a standard Arduino LCD?
[18:55:04] <IchGucksLive> no DOGM
[18:55:41] <andypugh> Your pendant is more professional than my entire installation.
[18:56:01] <skunkworks> heh
[18:56:10] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: Thanks for that
[18:56:19] * skunkworks really needs to play with the arduino
[18:57:06] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: http://www.lcd-module.de/produkte/dog.html
[18:57:28] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: klick on top right english
[18:58:03] <IchGucksLive> its at 19Euros for the low cost and if Blue Wight professionell needet its 28Euros
[18:59:34] <IchGucksLive> today i added the visual conneecting to the axis by pyvcp
[18:59:57] <IchGucksLive> i need to start the pc one moment
[19:01:11] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: there is a good lib for this display at arduino with Xor bars and so on
[19:01:57] <IchGucksLive> and the price is so low+
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[19:03:24] <cnc-9-Achsen> so mashine pc is up
[19:03:47] <cnc-9-Achsen> andypugh: did you watch the intirer vid ?
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[19:04:23] <andypugh> Not all the way through, no.
[19:04:32] <Danimal_garage> nice pendant
[19:04:35] <andypugh> I am trying to beat the 7i76 driver into submision.
[19:04:40] <Danimal_garage> it makes my fanuc pendant look like crap
[19:05:18] <cnc-9-Achsen> Danimal_garage: your is more creativ
[19:08:43] <cnc-9-Achsen> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/031111200827_pendand_at_work_v1a.png
[19:08:50] <cnc-9-Achsen> here is the latest view
[19:09:24] <cnc-9-Achsen> you can see in the terminal the communication between the parts
[19:09:25] <Quack_> sup danimal
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[19:10:24] <IchGucksLive> back on the main pc
[19:10:38] <IchGucksLive> its cold down there
[19:11:10] <andypugh> That's a lot of MDI_COMMANDS
[19:11:16] <IchGucksLive> im now trying to find out how i get rid over the failue of the port been throw away
[19:12:03] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: 24
[19:12:41] <IchGucksLive> as im a Toolmaker Masterchif this is quit a big projekt to me
[19:12:56] <IchGucksLive> im not familia with programming for years
[19:13:33] <IchGucksLive> ok i got lots of students and studdie also but as you now at age the brain is not moving fast
[19:14:08] <IchGucksLive> the new RFM22 will make this also wirerless
[19:14:19] <IchGucksLive> adding 8 Euros
[19:14:44] <andypugh> Sounds like €8 well spent.
[19:15:12] <IchGucksLive> this is going to be V2
[19:15:46] <IchGucksLive> i only use 8 out of 24 availabel I/O
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[19:25:24] <IchGucksLive> inside view of the pendant http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/031111202453_V1_cambleFrame.jpg
[19:26:30] <IchGucksLive> everything is designed for homebuild at 1mm cutter
[19:26:51] <IchGucksLive> 0.5 bit is better and V-shape perfect
[19:27:35] <IchGucksLive> 1mm for Wood Chopper and chees mashines Rock eater
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[19:27:51] <IchGucksLive> 0.3mm for a good professionell look
[19:28:36] <cncbasher> time for an arduino on the shopping list tomorrow
[19:28:57] <IchGucksLive> in the USA the FP4 CU frames are also 100x160 X
[19:29:38] <andypugh> You know the saying that if you have a hammer, very problem looks like a nail? The Arduino is very similar.
[19:29:48] <IchGucksLive> thats 4x6,2 inches ?
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[19:30:43] <IchGucksLive> andypugh: B)
[19:31:04] <IchGucksLive> ok connere will keep the US projekt and i the Euopean
[19:31:20] <IchGucksLive> ah as we speek
[19:31:32] <IchGucksLive> Connor: ?
[19:31:44] <Quack_> nice little tormach
[19:31:45] <Connor> I'm here, but on phone call
[19:31:51] <Quack_> i want the 770 tho A2
[19:36:29] <IchGucksLive> i need to go By and Thanks to all for the HELP on THis
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[22:52:55] <Quack_> should i keep around my old crusty P4 system just because it has a parallel port
[22:53:04] <Quack_> the NIC doesn't work no more
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[22:55:12] <Valen> if you have a little $ to spare the dual core atom motherboards are ~$100, and come with parallel port and really low latency
[22:55:22] <Quack_> wow ok
[22:55:30] <Valen> ~4000
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[22:55:37] <alex4nder> Valen: which board?
[22:55:41] <Quack_> 4000 what?
[22:55:47] <Valen> 4000 latency
[22:55:56] <Quack_> uhh i'm sorry but i'm not familiar with that
[22:56:05] <andypugh> 4000 millimicrsoeconds
[22:56:12] <Quack_> nani?
[22:56:13] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[22:56:38] <andypugh> Yeah, for some reason we always quote in thousands of nS.
[22:57:00] <Valen> D945GCLF2 i think is the one we used
[22:57:12] <Valen> thats what the latency test spits out ;-P
[23:00:07] <Quack_> hey Valen thanks for the help....great help there...umm one more thing would you recommend a Fireball, CNC3040 or Sable 2015?
[23:00:21] <Valen> dont like any of em lol
[23:01:02] <Quack_> hahaha
[23:01:11] <Quack_> if you just wanted to route some PCBs what would you get then?
[23:01:48] <andypugh> I would send $10 and a gerber file to Seeed
[23:02:04] <andypugh> Your Urgency May Vary
[23:04:07] <Quack_> who is seeed
[23:04:38] <Tom_itx> an agricultural company
[23:05:19] <Valen> we use our mill
[23:05:30] <Valen> we are in the process of making one that will suck less
[23:05:32] <andypugh> A company/website in china that make 10 boards for $10. (double-sided, plated-through, solder resist and screenprint)
[23:05:52] <Valen> if your not needing them urgently do what andypugh says
[23:05:58] <Valen> its faster ;->
[23:05:59] <Tom_itx> they're ok in a pinch
[23:06:19] <Tom_itx> that or dorkbotpdx and laen's board order service
[23:06:26] <Tom_itx> $5 /sq in x 3
[23:06:46] <Valen> if your in the USA its ok, gets a bit slow otherwise
[23:06:52] <Quack_> well see, i have the need to rev the board several times because i'm doing GHz work
[23:07:00] <Valen> and the price isn't actually that good really
[23:07:00] <Tom_itx> http://dorkbotpdx.org/wiki/pcb_order
[23:07:05] <Quack_> i could go to Seeed if i only was making a low frequency design
[23:07:05] <andypugh> Yeah, there's a lot of companies out there. Some are better than Seeed, some are quicker than Seeed. Choose accordingly.
[23:07:35] <Quack_> believe me i know how cheap making PCBs is
[23:07:45] <Tom_itx> for Ghz work i think you'd want a good quality board
[23:07:48] <Quack_> i didn't know it was THAT cheap but i could already get boards made for fairly cheap
[23:08:11] <Quack_> for GHz work i just want dual layer board with solid ground planes
[23:08:17] <Quack_> but a lot of times GHz work is guess and check
[23:08:18] <A2Sheds> Quack_: GHz logic or GHz analog/RF boards?
[23:08:25] <Quack_> yeah analog/RF
[23:08:32] <Quack_> even logic is still analog lol
[23:08:33] <A2Sheds> fun
[23:08:38] <Valen> not only magic, black magic
[23:08:47] <Quack_> yeah it can be
[23:09:00] <Valen> other issue is you dont get plated through holes
[23:09:17] <A2Sheds> we used to trim traces by hand with razor blades to tune circuits
[23:10:11] <A2Sheds> so I can see why you'd like to mill them
[23:10:59] <Valen> Quack_: GPS?
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[23:12:10] <Quack_> GPS? umm what?
[23:12:17] <Quack_> you think i'm working with GPS chips?
[23:12:19] <Quack_> nope
[23:12:34] <Quack_> A2Sheds what did you work on before?
[23:13:10] <Quack_> for RF work btw, we tend to only like through holes for ground shielding and ground enhancement
[23:13:19] <Quack_> usually it's all surface mount anyways
[23:17:41] <A2Sheds> Quack_: I did lots of microwave designs back in the 80's, microstrip phased array antennas, LNA's, receivers etc, mostly C-band
[23:18:01] <Quack_> holy crap you're cool
[23:18:10] <Quack_> i wanna get better at that because i'm a newb
[23:18:19] <Quack_> yeah tbh i do'nt know jack shit
[23:18:24] <Quack_> can i be your apprentice?
[23:19:19] <A2Sheds> I had to write my own CAD tools back then for microwave design
[23:20:02] <Quack_> holy crap
[23:20:05] <Quack_> what company was this
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[23:28:42] * Valen wants to make a phased array reciever for radio direction finding of rockets
[23:29:26] <Valen> but i decided it was too "non-trivial" to attempt ;->
[23:32:28] <Quack_> Rockets?
[23:32:37] <Quack_> you mean you want to make a passive radar system?
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[23:37:27] <A2Sheds> Valen: what frequency?
[23:39:02] <Quack_> yo A2Sheds where did u work b4?
[23:39:08] <Valen> bbl gotta get some work done
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[23:39:36] <A2Sheds> http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3AMicrowave%20Circuits&page=1 these microwave books are still pricey
[23:40:32] <A2Sheds> secret guberment project, I was agent orange :p
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[23:45:02] <Quack_> so waht you can tell me now right
[23:45:04] <Quack_> it's all over
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[23:47:28] <Tom_itx> agent orange was a herbacide
[23:49:35] <Quack_> you're cool A2
[23:49:38] <Quack_> Valen also
[23:50:56] <A2Sheds> we used to make satellite TV equipment, mostly
[23:51:23] <Quack_> can you teach me man?
[23:51:34] <Quack_> i want 2 be your apprentice
[23:51:39] <A2Sheds> back in the days of 3-4m dishes and they didn't encrypt anything
[23:52:33] <Quack_> oh yeah that's right
[23:54:13] <A2Sheds> analog FM, 30MHz channels that overlapped, dual polarization H and V
[23:55:58] <Quack_> really?
[23:56:09] <Quack_> the channel were polarized differently and overlapping in frequency?
[23:56:56] <A2Sheds> yeah, that's how they kept them separate
[23:59:06] <Quack_> damn ....haha
[23:59:16] <Quack_> tough to manage though