#emc | Logs for 2011-11-02

[00:00:20] <andypugh> Just thinking back to when I started programming, when you could only have as many variables as there were letters in the alphabet...
[00:01:37] <jdhNC> not a9?
[00:02:46] <PCW> Andy ifI do a setup start I get 00400000 in the CSR (no LBP errors no remote errors state 0x40)
[00:03:09] <andypugh> I am looking in the wrong register, because I am an idiot
[00:03:37] <andypugh> Or rather, I am looking not only at the wrong bit, but also the wrong byte.
[00:03:58] <andypugh> (bit 6 of the com-state_
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[00:05:10] <PCW> note that remote faults will likely only be valid after a normal start so
[00:05:12] <PCW> setup start to log in devices
[00:05:13] <PCW> stop
[00:05:15] <PCW> normal start (if errors now on logged in devices, print and bail)
[00:05:16] <PCW> ...
[00:05:18] <PCW> DOITs
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[00:06:53] <andypugh> The problem is, by the time we do a normal start, everything else is up and running, and there is no way for the sserial driver to stop it.
[00:07:58] <PCW> Wel I guess you could do a normal start for error checking and then a stop and then hand off to realtime
[00:08:55] <andypugh> Yes, that's a possibility
[00:09:43] <PCW> This would catch and report those cases where we have un-clearable faults (Low voltage etc)
[00:10:28] <andypugh> Though undervoltage is only valid after a do-it I think?
[00:10:53] <PCW> No with Rev29 its valid after a normal start
[00:11:16] <andypugh> Which, of course, only you have :-)
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[00:14:24] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/7i76x2.bit (for 5I25)
[00:14:26] <PCW> and
[00:14:27] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com svss8_44.bit (for 5I23)
[00:15:45] <PCW> Thats the main change with V29
[00:15:47] <PCW> (plus fixed support for non 2.5M baud rates, some of the low ones were broken)
[00:17:24] <andypugh> scmf5i25 7i76x2.bit ?
[00:17:37] <PCW> yes (dos)
[00:18:00] <andypugh> A task for another night, it involves dismantling the controller in the garage to get to the PCU ports
[00:18:06] <andypugh> (PCI)
[00:18:28] <PCW> also scmf5i25 7i76x2.bit V before cycling power if paranoid
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[00:19:49] <PCW> Well even V28 will fail with low voltage (you will just get the LBP error, not the remote error)
[00:20:29] <PCW> SSLBP error I mean
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[00:22:30] <andypugh> But not in setup mode, as far as I can see
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[00:24:57] <PCW> No, setup mode does not do any actual transfers so does not get the fault data (you notice it does not even clear the watchdog fault on the remote)
[00:25:13] <PCW> (so the red light remains on)
[00:25:34] <PCW> for those cards that have a red light...
[00:25:37] <andypugh> I am looking for a neat place to insert fault checking.
[00:26:31] <PCW> Error handling is always a pain
[00:28:38] <andypugh> It's whether the main sserial driver should continue to feign ignorance of the sub-modules.
[00:29:30] <andypugh> Or, in fact, whether I should re-jig everything to be generic, with pointers to functions and void pointers to hal data..
[00:30:11] <PCW> Thast the trouble with errors. they span levels of your neat hierarchy
[00:30:40] <andypugh> There seems little point in the latter, as there won't be any more different types of card (probably)
[00:31:16] <andypugh> It would be much neater to drop 8i20 and 7i64. How many did you sell :)
[00:31:36] <PCW> Heavens no once this auto detect stuff works, why ever make a non-auto card
[00:32:26] <PCW> Well we have enough that it would get pitchforks raised and torches lit
[00:33:20] <andypugh> I have the protection of 3000 miles of torch-extinguisher between me and most of them. :-)
[00:34:13] <PCW> We may update the 8I20/7I64 to auto at some point but some of the 7I64s are is not field upgradeable
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[00:35:55] <PCW> We would like to dump individual card support as well as its quite a bit of code in our limited (2K) SSLBP firmware ROM
[00:36:29] <andypugh> I would guess mine is one of the non-upgradable ones too?
[00:37:24] <PCW> Probably
[00:37:51] <PCW> Well its upgradeble with a PIC programmer :-)
[00:38:41] <PCW> currently (V29) we have 19 instructions free in the SSLBPROM
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[00:41:21] <PCW> we changed the CPU instruction set to add writeback around V25 which saved about 130 ins but we've pretty much used them up
[00:45:57] <PCW> Well the boss has told me its time to go home
[00:45:59] <PCW> Thanks Andy and BBL
[00:47:17] <andypugh> You might get a patch in a few minutes, otherwise tomorrow
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[00:49:37] <PCW> tom is ok I'm juts now leaving
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[00:55:11] <tom3p> hello, fixed the live 10.04 cd boot probs. had to go to text mode boot, then add vga=711 and append apic=off lapic to the linux line
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[01:03:52] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/emc_linux_enhanced_machine_control/139041-emc2_i_o_hardware_recommendation.html
[01:08:03] <andypugh> I think he just posted the same thing to the forums. I better get this driver finished :-)
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[01:08:54] <Tom_itx> no pressure there
[01:09:36] <andypugh> Well, it was working fine until this evening... I broke it with improvements
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[01:09:59] <Tom_itx> 'advanced user' features
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[01:11:09] <skunkworks> heh
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[01:27:56] <FinboySlick> How much would you guys say a new C6 lathe converted to servo is worth?
[01:28:22] <jdhNC> I'll give you $344.
[01:28:39] <FinboySlick> jdhNC: I'd be the one buying ;)
[01:29:25] <andypugh> C6?
[01:29:52] <FinboySlick> andypugh: http://www.syilamerica.com/machine_c6.php
[01:30:28] <andypugh> <gawp>
[01:30:48] <andypugh> $4800?
[01:31:05] <andypugh> That's about $4800 more than I think mine is worth.
[01:31:45] <toastyde1th> jesus christ, how does anyone get away for charging that much for a lathe of that form factor
[01:32:09] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: Heh, well it's pretty much exactly the size I need.
[01:32:32] <andypugh> I'd want a leadscrew cover for that price.
[01:32:42] <andypugh> And it's a really ugly conversion.
[01:32:43] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Very good point.
[01:32:53] <FinboySlick> Well, that's the stepper version.
[01:33:03] <toastyde1th> do you absolutely need a cnc lathe for whatever you're doing
[01:33:11] <FinboySlick> The canadian distributor is offering me a custom servo conversion with this as the base.
[01:33:30] <jdhNC> wonder how they get 10" out of that
[01:33:36] <andypugh> Still. Why not put the Zmotor in the head, and the X where it won't poke you in the chest?
[01:34:08] <jdhNC> because you an put the X right where the handle used to be
[01:35:22] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: Well, coventional of a similar size might do to start, but I'd definitely convert it later.
[01:35:41] <andypugh> I wonder if I can get $5000 for https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5611904480713910226 ?
[01:35:50] <toastyde1th> like, depending on space you can get a new 14x40 for that
[01:35:52] <jdhNC> I have a 9x20, about the same size, but I wouldn't recomend it
[01:35:59] <andypugh> It's got cable chains, at least
[01:36:05] <toastyde1th> or a nice and well-tooled 16x50
[01:36:26] <toastyde1th> or a used, same form factor turning center, late 80's early 90's vintage
[01:36:55] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: size is a major limiting factor, sadly.
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[01:37:09] <toastyde1th> yeah, that fucks a lot of people over unfortunately
[01:37:23] <toastyde1th> i just hate to see someone put 5k into a lathe that size without tooling
[01:37:24] <andypugh> That's a $500 lathe with $200 of steppers and a $300 laptop.
[01:37:30] <toastyde1th> yeah, exactly
[01:38:23] <FinboySlick> Heh, the main reason is that I need to spend some of the company's profits on tools if I don't want that same money gone in taxes.
[01:38:34] <toastyde1th> does it HAVE to be cnc?
[01:38:41] <toastyde1th> go get a Monarch 10EE
[01:38:45] <toastyde1th> used
[01:38:50] <andypugh> It is possible that Syil have re-worked the base machine a bit. But the quality of the chinese lathe I have retrofitted me brought to mind sows' ears rather than silk purses.
[01:39:16] <Jymmm> Do most gas regulators use a flow or pressure gauge?
[01:39:20] <toastyde1th> honestly I find a non-cnc lathe a lot more useful for most "real" tasks
[01:39:39] <andypugh> I love my CNC now I have the macros set up.
[01:40:00] <toastyde1th> no matter how much setup I do, I just can't ever beat my own time on cnc
[01:40:04] <andypugh> It's just like a self-resetting power-feed
[01:40:06] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: I can definitely see what you mean there.
[01:40:26] <toastyde1th> and that is with fanuc's insane fast lathe canned cycles
[01:41:01] <toastyde1th> but that is just my lone data point
[01:42:06] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: It's a considerable point none the less.
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[01:42:22] <toastyde1th> andypugh might have a better approach than I did, so you might want to consider that
[01:42:40] <FinboySlick> Fast setups/prod aren't much of an issue for me, making funky curved parts though...
[01:43:00] <toastyde1th> if you are really expecting to NEED curved parts then yeah
[01:43:02] <toastyde1th> a cnc lathe
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[01:44:17] <FinboySlick> I'd also quite like to *build* a lathe.
[01:45:12] <FinboySlick> But i'd need access to a large mill to get the bigger parts done.
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[01:46:34] <FinboySlick> Not that large mind you, but larger than I have access to.
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[01:47:10] <toastyde1th> making a lathe without the correct grinding equipment is largely an exercise in scraping and millwrighting
[01:47:16] <toastyde1th> you do not need a large mill
[01:47:35] <toastyde1th> it will take a small amount of tedium out of it
[01:47:36] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: I'm thinking I'd just get linear rails.
[01:47:55] <toastyde1th> the surface you bolt the rails to matters
[01:48:31] <Jymmm> OSB!!!
[01:48:37] <jdhNC> big epoxy-granite slab
[01:48:56] <Jymmm> styrafoam!
[01:49:05] <Jymmm> 2" thick of course
[01:49:05] <toastyde1th> dreams and hopes
[01:49:16] <Jymmm> okey, 4" thick =)
[01:49:43] <Jymmm> duct tape?
[01:49:57] <jdhNC> seems like the cross slide of a manual lathe would be the weak point and limiting factor for cnc (never having used one)
[01:50:07] <andypugh> There is a book by Gingery on scratch-building a lathe.
[01:50:32] <toastyde1th> the saddle is always the pain the balls part
[01:50:39] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: Hehe, I could use the rails to test straightness of the surface I mount them on! indicator on a carriage, testing the whole rail-mounting surface.
[01:50:56] <toastyde1th> FinboySlick, you may want to read up a little more.
[01:51:02] <Jymmm> toastyde1th: isn't that true of *ALL* sorta/kinds of saddles?
[01:51:15] <andypugh> http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html
[01:51:19] <toastyde1th> i like to refer to this as "the engineering problem"
[01:51:22] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: Suggesting that the rail wouldn't be true out of the shop?
[01:51:48] <toastyde1th> suggesting that the alignment of a pair of very accurate rails is not as easy as it would first appear
[01:52:09] <toastyde1th> and turns out to be almost like aligning a pair of plain ways.
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[01:52:46] <toastyde1th> you need to use a lot of the same tools and methods
[01:52:53] <toastyde1th> the advantage is that a quick tap with a hammer sets it right
[01:52:59] <andypugh> I don't actually think that a lathe is all that hard to build. The accuracy largely comes from maths, rather than craft.
[01:53:00] <toastyde1th> the disadvantage is that a quick tap of the hammer sets it wrong
[01:53:24] <toastyde1th> andypugh, indeed
[01:53:29] <toastyde1th> the problem is people assume they understand the math
[01:53:38] <toastyde1th> that's what i was referring to with "the engineering problem"
[01:53:52] <toastyde1th> i.e. when an engineer sets foot in a machine shop and immediately assumes they know how to run machine tools
[01:54:08] <toastyde1th> the same phenomenon occurs when machinists, pro and amateur alike, set foot in the millwright shop
[01:54:09] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: I'm flattered.
[01:54:54] <toastyde1th> I sat in on a presentation alexander slocum gave on the alignment and error tolerance of a machine using linear guides
[01:54:54] <jdhNC> you should see what happens when you give a software guy a screwdriver
[01:55:21] <toastyde1th> it was essentially exerpts from "machine tool reconditioning" updated for linear rails
[01:55:25] <FinboySlick> I don't really assume that I understand anything until repeatedly get it right.
[01:55:44] <FinboySlick> Usually quite repeatedly because I'm a lucky SOB by nature.
[01:55:50] <toastyde1th> hahaha
[01:55:56] <FinboySlick> So I can't rely on a first success.
[01:56:04] <andypugh> People do seem to confuse engineers with machinists, and machinists with mechanics (and mechanics with engineers). Lots of people are all three, but many are only one. I have met some skilled machinists who were dreadful mechanics.
[01:56:42] <toastyde1th> yep, but those triple crown folks earn it
[01:57:35] <andypugh> I think I can claim all three. :-)
[01:57:38] <toastyde1th> i guess what i'm saying is don't invent your own method until you understand why the way it's done is the way it is
[01:57:50] <FinboySlick> andypugh: We all assumed.
[01:57:55] <toastyde1th> and in that vein re: building a lathe with linear rails, the standard books apply
[01:58:03] <toastyde1th> and give pretty detailed logic
[01:58:49] <andypugh> Now, I am not feeling so sure I can claim "coder" tonight, why they heck am I getting -22 back from this function?
[01:59:19] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Forgot a & ?
[01:59:20] <toastyde1th> FinboySlick, moore's Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy and connelly's Machine Tool Reconditioning
[01:59:22] <toastyde1th> should be what you need
[01:59:39] <toastyde1th> after that you should be able to reasonably invent your own rig to align rails.
[01:59:44] <toastyde1th> *reasonably set
[01:59:50] <toastyde1th> i accidentally the whole word
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[02:01:43] <toastyde1th> also there's a relatively recent book (i.e. in the 2000s) about spindle accuracy and errors
[02:01:55] <toastyde1th> but I forget who its by and what its called
[02:01:57] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: Hah. I'll start with: "How to mill a part that looks better than this.", by FinboySlick... Hopefully it won't be my entire life's work. http://i.imgur.com/i7Ap4.jpg
[02:02:04] <toastyde1th> haha
[02:02:20] <toastyde1th> that doesn't look like chatter
[02:02:29] <toastyde1th> that looks like a dull tool and chip recutting
[02:03:07] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: Both corners of that 2 flute are chipped.
[02:03:17] <FinboySlick> following this job.
[02:03:20] <toastyde1th> yep
[02:03:21] <toastyde1th> chip recutting
[02:03:22] <FinboySlick> It was loud as hell.
[02:03:35] <toastyde1th> you need to set up either coolant or a little air blast
[02:03:38] <toastyde1th> to get the chips out
[02:03:40] <andypugh> Is it a really nice rigid machine?
[02:03:57] <toastyde1th> after that you can start figuring out what other manifold of problems you have
[02:04:12] <FinboySlick> andypugh: For an overpriced chinese thing, yeah.
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[02:04:45] <toastyde1th> you are probably being too aggressive with the infeed and the depth of cut
[02:04:51] <andypugh> Those stripes look almost like Lüders bands.
[02:05:07] <toastyde1th> yes, they are
[02:05:28] <FinboySlick> lüder bands?
[02:05:37] <toastyde1th> they happen when a chip is hammered into the surface of the material
[02:05:48] <toastyde1th> and it is why the tips of the endmill are chipped
[02:06:46] <toastyde1th> chatter follows the pattern of the depth of cut, and these are clearly visible as a continuous thing that is happening continuously agnostic of stepdown
[02:07:11] <toastyde1th> (chatter may also be present)
[02:07:22] <FinboySlick> That was a full height finish side-cut.
[02:07:34] <FinboySlick> 0.5mm thick.
[02:07:44] <toastyde1th> is there any air blast?
[02:08:08] <FinboySlick> No, I'll be buying a compressor before I buy a lathe for sure.
[02:08:38] <FinboySlick> It's a fairly fast spinning tool though, I would have hoped it would have tossed chips away.
[02:08:53] <toastyde1th> do you know what your feed per tooth is
[02:09:02] <toastyde1th> i am guessing it's quite tiny.
[02:09:24] <FinboySlick> 1.5 thou, I think.
[02:09:38] <FinboySlick> 3/16" endmill.
[02:09:41] <toastyde1th> hm
[02:09:45] <toastyde1th> that's not bad for a tiny endmill
[02:09:59] <FinboySlick> It was carbide.
[02:10:10] <FinboySlick> But I feel bad for torturing it that way.
[02:10:38] <toastyde1th> you generally have to get a tool hauling ass for it to really throw chips
[02:10:40] <FinboySlick> It was also set way too long.
[02:10:55] <FinboySlick> I think it was 13000rpm
[02:11:11] <toastyde1th> for a tool that small, it's unlikely that's fast enough
[02:11:21] <toastyde1th> i am talking like a 1" endmill at 10k rpm
[02:11:42] <toastyde1th> air blast or coolant
[02:11:47] <toastyde1th> is the best way to get chips clear
[02:11:52] <andypugh> Fast enough to throw chips, you mean?
[02:11:57] <toastyde1th> yeah
[02:12:04] <toastyde1th> without any refeed
[02:12:17] <andypugh> My mill has speeds from 45rpm to 1100rpm. I have _no_ idea what 45rpm is for.
[02:12:25] <toastyde1th> facemills?
[02:12:35] <FinboySlick> andypugh: rotisserie?
[02:12:45] <andypugh> Maybe facemills too big to fit the machine, yes.
[02:12:50] <toastyde1th> hahaha
[02:14:01] <andypugh> 40 m/min for steel, 45rpm = 1m circumference face mill?
[02:14:17] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: given the fact that the part was already roughed to 0.5mm, how come I had so much chip recutting? They stuck to the cutter?
[02:14:28] <toastyde1th> yep
[02:14:49] <andypugh> Climb or conventional cutting?
[02:14:50] <toastyde1th> like, it's super easy to do
[02:14:52] <toastyde1th> the chip just has to be sitting there
[02:14:54] <FinboySlick> climb
[02:15:13] <toastyde1th> climb shouldn't be as bad but it still happens
[02:15:33] <FinboySlick> I'm sure the full height pass didn't help any, and the length of tool sticking out.
[02:15:37] <toastyde1th> andypugh also mentioned chatter
[02:15:54] <FinboySlick> Next try at this is going to be 3flutes.
[02:15:55] <toastyde1th> that it's loud means you're doing something wrong
[02:16:03] <toastyde1th> beyond recutting
[02:16:32] <FinboySlick> Yeah, I assumed that much.
[02:16:46] <toastyde1th> you should be able to get a clean cut with any number of flutes
[02:16:51] <FinboySlick> I need an enclosure though. I'm still finding chips all over the house.
[02:16:51] <toastyde1th> you need to change your cutting parameters
[02:16:52] <andypugh> A lot of the time you seem to just get ali smeared on the cutting edge. I get it all the time, which I put down to my mill being flexible, slow and having no coolant
[02:17:19] <toastyde1th> take a less deep (in both directions) cut, with a slower spindle speed, and faster feed rate
[02:17:44] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: As in higher chip load?
[02:18:11] <FinboySlick> Actually, I mean feed per tough.
[02:18:14] <FinboySlick> tooth
[02:18:17] <toastyde1th> yes
[02:18:26] <toastyde1th> but mostly just dial your spindle speed way way down
[02:18:34] <toastyde1th> go to like .002 or .003 per tooth
[02:18:41] <toastyde1th> and try it at 2k rpm
[02:18:50] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: it won't even spin that slow.
[02:18:53] <andypugh> Anyway, time I slept. I actually know rather little about milling, I have done mainly turning, shaping and boring. And they all use lathe tools :_)
[02:19:05] <toastyde1th> night andy
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[02:19:12] <toastyde1th> FinboySlick, then dial it back as far as you can go
[02:19:18] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: That's 8k.
[02:19:24] <toastyde1th> is this a router?
[02:19:38] <FinboySlick> It's a mill with a high speed spindle.
[02:20:02] <toastyde1th> do it at 8k and take really light cuts
[02:20:08] <toastyde1th> at .003" per tooth
[02:20:33] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: Hehe, that's heavier than pretty much all I've done so far.
[02:21:16] <FinboySlick> I varied RPM and feedrate but pretty much always kept feed per tooth to 1.5 thou
[02:22:13] <FinboySlick> This thing is mostly aimed at very small endmills.
[02:22:27] <FinboySlick> But since it's all I have, I have to be creative for larger parts.
[02:22:30] <toastyde1th> do some tests
[02:22:45] <toastyde1th> make some cuts, at 30% cutter width and 70% cutter width
[02:22:51] <toastyde1th> at .003" per tooth, 8k rpm
[02:22:56] <toastyde1th> start off at .010" deep
[02:23:05] <toastyde1th> and face the part
[02:23:21] <toastyde1th> then do a depth of .020"
[02:23:23] <toastyde1th> and keep dropping down
[02:24:33] <FinboySlick> toastyde1th: I will. Though I'm seeing serious need to come up with an enclosure and either coolant or airblast there.
[02:24:38] <toastyde1th> yep
[02:24:41] <toastyde1th> coolant is a huge thing
[02:24:53] <toastyde1th> esp. with carbide
[02:24:53] <FinboySlick> Yeah, but not very nice to have in a house.
[02:24:59] <toastyde1th> hss can take a lot more of a beating
[02:26:04] <FinboySlick> I have to sleep and eat in the same house as that mill ;)
[02:26:15] <toastyde1th> lol
[02:26:21] <toastyde1th> machining requires sacrifices
[02:27:03] <FinboySlick> I'm not compromising food.
[02:27:19] <toastyde1th> haha
[02:27:52] <FinboySlick> Coolant-flavored fois-gras? Nope.
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[02:29:16] <FinboySlick> Anyway. I don't mind the part taking quite a while to make. I'll mostly aim for ways to machine that avoid making the place a hell to live in.
[02:29:22] <toastyde1th> a+
[02:30:09] <FinboySlick> The top of the part is quite smooth and lovely.
[02:30:22] <FinboySlick> So I guess I'll just do lots of small passes.
[02:31:02] <toastyde1th> nah, you just need to experiment with your depth of cut and radial feed
[02:31:03] <FinboySlick> I have linear ways on all axis so I guess I don't have to worry as much about lots of motion.
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[02:32:21] <FinboySlick> But yeah, I think your advice is the best yet. I should stop aiming for lucky results and build up actual cutting experience. Trying to over-analyze the situation isn't going to cut it.
[02:33:31] <toastyde1th> yep
[02:33:34] <toastyde1th> badum tsh
[02:33:36] <toastyde1th> nice pun
[02:34:06] <FinboySlick> I may or may not have intended it.
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[09:26:53] <MrTrick> I'm trying to convert from mach3 control to emc control...
[09:28:20] <MrTrick> My mach3 motor config is: steps per; 400, velocity; 2000 mm/min; acceleration; 200 mm/sec/sec, step pulse; 10us, dir pulse; 3.
[09:31:48] <MrTrick> emc uses mm/s for velocity, so I guess that's 33.333... with 'test this axis' it seems *very* rough and noisy and very slow.
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[09:56:17] <MrTrick> aha - had my 'step' lines inverted.
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[10:49:50] <kp> Does anyone know if there is a way that a python hal component knows what nets are connected to its pins at a given time?
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[12:03:21] <mrsun> hmm, a cnc shaper ... maybe would be something:P
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[13:27:16] <CapnKernel> Hello. I am trying to get a "MIB Instruments" CNC3020 mill up and running. I'm using the Ubuntu RTAI CD installed to hard disk. During stepconf, when exercising the axes, sometimes I get error messages about broken pipes. In /var/log/messages, the most illuminating message is "part parport0 claim failed".
[13:27:31] <CapnKernel> Any ideas? The steptest of the axes does work, if I don't get the erro.
[13:27:58] <CapnKernel> The error happens when I click on Test this axis, not when I click the jog buttons.
[13:28:22] <CapnKernel> I have googled for "port parport0 claim failed" but the hits don't seem relevant.
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[13:30:46] <CapnKernel> When I do an lsmod, I see that module "lp" is loaded. If I remove it, ppdev, parport_pc and parport, then modprobe parport_pc, the problem goes away.
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[13:35:55] <skunkworks> CapnKernel: My inital thought is - Have you updated to the latest emc version? The version on the livecd is old. (I vaugly remember there being issues with the printer port probing)
[13:43:26] <CapnKernel> skunkworks: hi there
[13:43:33] <CapnKernel> I'll check.
[13:45:16] <CapnKernel> Is the 10.4 Ubuntu CD the most recent live CD available?
[13:51:39] <cradek> yes that's the most recent linuxcnc livecd
[13:52:09] <cradek> after installing it, you must run the updates to get all the latest software
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[14:15:51] <kp> cradek: I see that you have contributed to the hal module for python. May I ask something about it?
[14:18:24] <skunkworks> kp: just ask (don't ask to ask)\
[14:20:22] <kp> thanks. I'm not familiar with irc rules. I would like some functionality that I can't find in the hal module, so I'm reading halmodule.cc, trying to figure out what's going on.
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[14:20:48] <kp> First, am I looking at the right file? :)
[14:22:04] <kp> I would like to add a function that returns the current pin writer. I can only find a function named pin_has_writer
[14:23:11] <kp> I thought I would start from this one and find a way out. Seems very complex for my development skills, but I'll try nevertheless
[14:24:49] <seb_kuzminsky> kp: there's currently no easy way to find out who the writer of a pin is
[14:25:00] <kp> so, the real question is: is this feasible?
[14:25:02] <kp> oh, ok
[14:25:11] <seb_kuzminsky> what are you trying to do?
[14:26:34] <kp> I'm doing a small project that will communicate some pin values to the outside world via serial (to an arduino). I want to change the pin values from outside with the help of some buttons and an LCD.
[14:27:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i think you should write a new hal component (using C or using the "comp" tool), with some input pins (input into the component) and some output pins (output from the component to hal)
[14:27:49] <seb_kuzminsky> use "net" to connect your input pins to the pins you want to export to the arduino
[14:28:04] <seb_kuzminsky> the comp will read those pins and send then to the arduino
[14:28:06] <kp> I'm trying to be as generic as possible. So, I would like to pass the names of the pins that are connected to the python component to the arduino board, so I will know what pin I alter
[14:28:28] <seb_kuzminsky> the comp will read from the arduino and put those values on the output pins, so the rest of hal can get the values
[14:29:40] <kp> English is not my native language, so I will be a little slow to respond ..
[14:29:57] <cradek> seb is right - you can do this by working with the hal model, not against it
[14:30:06] <cradek> (your english is perfect)
[14:30:12] <seb_kuzminsky> i see, you want the arduino screen to say something like "axis.0.motor-pos-fb = 1.234"
[14:30:24] <seb_kuzminsky> hi cradek!
[14:30:28] <cradek> good morning
[14:30:33] <seb_kuzminsky> snowy morning here!
[14:30:39] <kp> Thanks cradek. Yes seb. that's right!
[14:31:04] <cradek> we even expect some snow here tonight! I love seeing it for the first time every year.
[14:32:35] <kp> I try doing it with python, because I had some trouble including the standard headers in the .comp I started testing. I saw that even though I don't know python, maybe it will be easier to achieve this.
[14:32:54] <cradek> if you want that, you'll have to dig around in the guts of the hal memory, like halcmd/halmeter/halscope do
[14:33:13] <kp> Hmm ..
[14:33:23] <cradek> or, you can work with hal at the usual level, like pyvcp etc do
[14:33:34] <seb_kuzminsky> kp: i think the only way to get the info you want is to figure out what net your pin is connected to, then walk the list of output pins and see which one is connected to the same net
[14:33:44] <cradek> and have your device present pins, which you can net to other pins, and read their values that way.
[14:34:30] <kp> Outputting the net name is the same, as far as I'm concerned. Is there an easy way to get this info from the hal python module? I didn' find anything relevant.
[14:35:01] <seb_kuzminsky> kp: unfortunately no
[14:35:20] <kp> will it be easier using C?
[14:35:27] <seb_kuzminsky> hal pins don't know if they're connected to a net or not, and if they are, they don't know which net
[14:36:14] <seb_kuzminsky> the hal guts are all in C (src/hal/hal*.h and src/hal/hal_lib.c), i know you could do what you want in C, i don't know if you could do it in python
[14:36:23] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl, shoveling
[14:36:54] <skunkworks> seems to be misting here.
[14:36:57] <cradek> I suggest reconsidering whether you can do what you want (get a readout on your display?) without violating the hal layering
[14:37:21] <cradek> because I think you can - this is how all the VCPs work
[14:38:33] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: the thing kp wants, that vcp doesnt do afaik, is know the name of the output pin that is writing to the net that his input pin is connected to
[14:38:43] <seb_kuzminsky> getting the value is easy, getting the name is hard
[14:39:25] <seb_kuzminsky> wow, chatting about work that other people are going to do is way more appealing than going out and shoveling the walk
[14:39:32] <kp> Seb I wonder what you mean I can't get this info ("hal pins don't know if they're connected to a net or not"). I'm already getting it using the pin_has_writer() I mentioned earlier. Or am I missing something?
[14:39:33] <cradek> I understand, but is that a primary or secondary goal?
[14:40:07] <cradek> I think they do know if they have writers, because if not, they point to a special place you can setp
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[14:40:40] <seb_kuzminsky> right, that's nearly what the pin_has_writer() function does
[14:40:42] <skunkworks> kp: is this the 'tuning' device where you want to be able to adjust the PIDFFx perimeters?
[14:40:53] <seb_kuzminsky> if(pin->signal) {
[14:40:53] <seb_kuzminsky> hal_sig_t *signal = (hal_sig_t*)SHMPTR(pin->signal);
[14:40:53] <seb_kuzminsky> return PyBool_FromLong(signal->writers > 0);
[14:40:53] <seb_kuzminsky> }
[14:41:10] <kp> skunkworks: Yes!
[14:42:12] <kp> I saw this code part. I didn't know what "signal->writers" is.
[14:42:28] <seb_kuzminsky> that's a counter of how many writers (output pins) are connected to the signal
[14:42:45] <seb_kuzminsky> it's in hal_priv.h, search for hal_sig_t
[14:43:19] <seb_kuzminsky> halmodule.cc is not the true definition of the hal interface, you might be better off looking at hal.h and hal.c, and maybe hal_priv.h
[14:43:27] <kp> I also have a question about this. What do we mean by writers? I thought only one writer could be connected to an input pin?
[14:43:42] <seb_kuzminsky> but hal_priv.h is supposed to be private and internal to hal, not for users to use
[14:43:48] <cradek> IO pins can have many writers
[14:43:55] <kp> That's why I asked if I'm looking at the correct file in the first place :)
[14:43:59] <seb_kuzminsky> you can have multiple io pins on one net
[14:44:09] <kp> They do?
[14:44:30] <kp> Only IOs, right?
[14:44:31] <cradek> er seb's language is more precise than mine
[14:45:05] <seb_kuzminsky> i think you should write your comp the easy way that chris and i are suggesting first, then go dig in the hal guts if you still want later ;-)
[14:45:23] <seb_kuzminsky> ok *now* i'm going to go shovel
[14:45:25] <seb_kuzminsky> good luck kp!
[14:45:29] <kp> thanks
[14:45:39] <cradek> what is the big picture for this project? something about pid tuning?
[14:45:45] <kp> I will try doing it in comp then.
[14:46:06] <kp> yes, that's the initial goal. I'm trying to make things a little more generic, though.
[14:46:40] <kp> so that I will have a component that will be able to communicate any values to an outside uC.
[14:47:35] <kp> seb_kuzminsky: good shoveling!
[14:48:31] <cradek> I don't envy him
[14:48:54] <kp> It rarely snows here, so I envy him a lot
[14:49:05] <cradek> it's funny how that works
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[14:55:25] <kp> I'm reading the entire conversation again, so that I will understand what you guys said earlier. cradek, can you clarify a little on "seb is right - you can do this by working with the hal model, not against it"
[14:56:29] <cradek> imagine your device can be like any other hal component; it is loaded and presents pins that can be connected to any nets in the hal system. it can read or write values, and the user can connect it any way he wants.
[14:56:55] <cradek> to me, that is the way to make it flexible
[14:57:18] <kp> you mean the external device?
[14:57:31] <cradek> instead, it sounds like you want to reimplement halmeter and I guess I don't understand why - for example, for pid tuning it makes no sense.
[14:57:57] <cradek> yes the external device is controlled by and/or controls a hal component.
[14:59:13] <kp> Ok, that's what I meant by "english is not my native language". I didn't say it right, I guess. So, here it goes again. The whole thought:
[15:00:08] <kp> Arduino will listen to the component on USB. The component will send some commands, like "addentry AAA BBB CCC" to the device
[15:00:41] <kp> the device will add these to its menu, so that the user can iterate on the entries and see the values
[15:02:11] <kp> the user will also be able to change these values quickly, via some quadrature encoders. with a variable step, because the values have different scales
[15:02:27] <kp> the device will send these values back to the component as they change
[15:02:50] <kp> and the component will in turn change the (PID or whatever) values
[15:03:09] <kp> Is this what you understood earlier?
[15:04:10] <cradek> thanks for explaining
[15:04:26] <cradek> I still think you can best accomplish this by not digging into hal's internals
[15:05:04] <cradek> you'd have a way to configure your device (outside hal) to, say, present output pins with values meant for pid. then you'd net them to the pid you want to adjust, and then they would write the values.
[15:05:27] <kp> sure, that's what I had in mind in the first place
[15:06:05] <cradek> since hal has no string type, you'll have to configure whatever labels/strings the display will show outside of hal somehow
[15:06:19] <kp> Later I thought that it could be made more generic, so that when I connect a pin to the component, the device gets the right pin name
[15:06:32] <kp> Oh, ok. Now I get it
[15:07:01] <cradek> but that's not generic. generic is I can make it say "X axis P value:" and then the value to write to some net
[15:07:24] <cradek> or I can make it say "spindle override percentage:"
[15:07:33] <cradek> I think you're not thinking of "generic" the right way
[15:07:48] <kp> Hmm ..
[15:08:11] <kp> ok, I'll copy/paste this conversation for later reading
[15:08:12] <cradek> the hal model lets the user (who already understands the hal paradigm) use your device however he wants to
[15:10:58] <kp> I thought that "generic" would be have the device with no entries when powered on, and making the component have generic IO pins and then pass the names of the connected pins (from the pid comp in this case) to the device.
[15:11:52] <cradek> after I tune my pid, what if I want to make a pendant out of it? I want it to control jogging, coolant, feed and spindle override, and max velocity.
[15:12:06] <kp> But I'll read later the entire conversation and try to understand you way of thinking (because I can't absorbe english so quickly). You're much more experienced than me, after all
[15:12:22] <kp> Yes, go on ..
[15:12:24] <cradek> but in your quest to make it generic, you've doomed it to being only a second version of halmeter
[15:13:00] <cradek> I don't use halmeter after my machine is done, but I use jogging buttons all the time
[15:14:55] <kp> Yes, but I plan to have separate jogging buttons or mpgs in my cases. I didn't think of the device so generic. Maybe that's why I can't understand your thought.
[15:15:39] <kp> This will be more of a tuning device, not a jogging one
[15:16:03] <cradek> but why limit it like that?
[15:16:25] <cradek> sorry, I will stop trying to convince you, we have different visions
[15:16:34] <kp> Of course, your "generic" is definetely is more "generic" than mine
[15:17:08] <kp> Don't be. I value your experience a lot more that it (probably) seems.
[15:17:17] <kp> I'm just trying to understand
[15:19:02] <kp> I do computers for a living for the last 23 years. My vision is always something reusable when I can. I *want* to understand yours, because I might not have thought it through enough.
[15:20:07] <cradek> brb
[15:22:13] <kp> brb too
[15:36:30] <kp> Sorry. I'm at work, so ..
[15:36:36] <kp> I'm back
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[16:02:52] <jdhNC> does anyone plate their milled PCB's? Is it worthwhile?
[16:04:37] <A2Sheds> the copper does oxidize. Do you coat it after you stuff and solder?
[16:05:10] <jdhNC> that was part two
[16:06:50] <A2Sheds> for through hole a solder mask typically covers all the exposed traces except for where you'll be soldering leads
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[16:07:55] <A2Sheds> you can just solder and then spray coat with a clear acrylic ~$3/can
[16:08:15] <jdhNC> I ordered some MG liquid coating.
[16:08:47] <cncbasher> i coat them afterwards , and never handle the copper if i can help it
[16:09:36] <cncbasher> and cover the boards in cling film if it's going to be a while before they are used
[16:09:47] <A2Sheds> yes, keep the copper clean before coating
[16:10:38] <cncbasher> oils from your skin tend to promote oxidization
[16:10:56] <CapnKernel> cradek: thanks for updating cd advice
[16:11:16] <cncbasher> i rinse mine in IPA first
[16:11:49] <jdhNC> do the hops help the board?
[16:11:53] <A2Sheds> India Pale Ale?
[16:12:01] <A2Sheds> heh
[16:12:28] <kp> cradek: thanks for all the info. I'll read again what has been said here and come back with more questions :)
[16:12:42] <cncbasher> isopropyl alcohol
[16:13:27] <cncbasher> but i'd rather have the India Pale Ale
[16:13:58] <A2Sheds> jdhNC: there are standards, mostly UL that PCB vendors use to meet whatever requirements their product needs
[16:14:03] <jdhNC> I ordered a small bottle of liquid Tin, just didn't know if it was useful.
[16:14:50] <A2Sheds> you probably just want you boards to last a few years
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[16:15:27] <jdhNC> no, some of these would need to last 5 or 10
[16:16:14] <cncbasher> do a search on pcb conformal coatings
[16:16:36] <cncbasher> electrolube do quite a few
[16:16:52] <cncbasher> www.pcb-coatings.com
[16:17:49] <A2Sheds> I have boards from the 80's that I made by hand (silkscreen + drillpress) that are still working, coated with acrylic
[16:19:00] <jdhNC> http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/419b.html
[16:19:27] <A2Sheds> no need to use Parylene or get too carried away with other conformal coatings, the solder joints are the most critical
[16:20:20] <jdhNC> $10 experiment I guess
[16:20:33] <cncbasher> the main point is to make sure no flux is left behind , so rinse in IPA helps
[16:20:57] <cncbasher> then coat with laquer , should all be thats needed
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[16:34:47] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:35:24] <jdhNC> the stuff I bought seems to be acrylic lacquer
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[16:38:25] <A2Sheds> jdhNC: it will work fine. Are there any parts that will need to dissipate a lot of heat?
[16:39:25] <jdhNC> heh, I'm making these boards because the old ones failed. Some due to heat.
[16:40:05] <A2Sheds> the acrylic is a poor conductor of heat
[16:41:44] <A2Sheds> so you'll want to mask any parts like mosfets that you will be attaching heatsinks
[16:43:51] <A2Sheds> jdhNC: what parts failed due to heat?
[16:44:13] <Jymmm> ice cubes!
[16:44:56] <Jymmm> But, you can't melt an ice cube in a microwave ironically
[16:46:17] <A2Sheds> you must be doing it wrong
[16:46:41] <Jymmm> jdhNC: pomona electronics makes the BEST probes to get under conformal coat.
[16:47:07] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: Toss an ice cube in the microwave and turn it in, it doesn't melt.
[16:47:16] <Jymmm> on
[16:58:01] <alex4nder> huh
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[17:01:04] <CapnKernel> I have a CNC controller that understands GCode. Can I use EMC's UI without having EMC generate pulses? (In other words, a passthrough for GCode?)
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[17:02:17] <Danimal_garage> hi
[17:02:22] <alex4nder> hey
[17:02:30] <Danimal_garage> how goes it
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[17:06:31] <Loetmichel> *grrr* did some angle grinding at my company. everything went fine. got to the loo, wahsing my face and rubbing a spark from the grinding under my eyelid. SHI*! I should deposit some q-tips and a bottel contact lens fluid at my company. onbe hour witrh left eye nearly blind for pain/teats, and a drive home "one-eyed" and at home it was 30s and the little fucker was gone :-(
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[17:09:07] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Keep a full bottle of "Contact lens solution for sensative eyes" handy. makes a great eye wash and you can buy a 2x 12oz pack for $5 USD
[17:09:51] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Also good for flushing out a wound as it's just saline solution for the most part
[17:10:10] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: that was meant
[17:10:16] <Jymmm> ???
[17:10:42] <Loetmichel> I should deposit some q-tips and a bottel contact lens fluid at my company.
[17:10:48] <Jymmm> ah
[17:10:51] <Loetmichel> quote from abve
[17:11:09] <Jymmm> I keep two in my first aid kit
[17:14:08] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I misunderstood what you had said.
[17:15:02] <Loetmichel> i only needed a wetted q-tip to pry under the eylid once end the sucker was gone
[17:15:19] <Loetmichel> very little black spot: much pain and tears ;-)
[17:15:35] <Loetmichel> s/end/and
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[17:15:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: *I* wound NEVER use a qtip, as it might push the item into the eye inadvertanly. Just flush it out
[17:16:26] <Jymmm> just empty the bottle till that sucker came out
[17:16:39] <Loetmichel> tried that. was lockend in somehow. moved not a thou
[17:17:24] <Loetmichel> so i was detined to more drastic measures ;-)
[17:17:37] <Loetmichel> destined
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[17:20:52] <Loetmichel> btw: the last time i got some steel in my eye the Doc did exactly the same thing: used a cotton tip stick to pry it out of my eye. because it was red hot when hitting the eye it was burned in and wouldnt go out
[17:21:10] <Jymmm> ah
[17:21:23] <Loetmichel> he used more of a "DNA-swab" from CSI than a qtip but ok ;-)
[17:21:31] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: But you understand what I was saying?
[17:21:36] <Loetmichel> yes
[17:21:42] <Jymmm> =)
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[17:26:07] <Spida> Loetmichel: sounds not nice. wearing safety glasses might have helped.
[17:31:34] <Loetmichel> spida: got the spark in the exe AFTER the grinding as i wanted to wash my face!
[17:34:43] <Spida> Loetmichel: so it was not a spark anymore but just a cold piece of sharp metal?
[17:38:30] <Loetmichel> yes
[17:38:35] <Loetmichel> a VERY little
[17:40:40] <jdhNC> i'd have the company paying for a real eye dr to check it out
[17:52:01] <syyl> normal, your boss sends you to a eye doc by himself, if something like that happens
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[18:28:53] <cnc-9-Achsen> Hi all
[18:29:34] <cnc-9-Achsen> i got an error castom_hal_test.hal:66: Pin 'pyvcp.pendant_is_connected' does not exist
[18:29:47] <cnc-9-Achsen> in my panel xml
[18:30:20] <cnc-9-Achsen> led is defined <led> <halpin>"pendant_is_connected"</halpin>
[18:30:53] <cnc-9-Achsen> this is equal
[18:31:28] <cnc-9-Achsen> the hal has this -> net pendant-is-connected pyvcp.pendant_is_connected <= pendant.pendant_is_connected
[18:32:17] <cnc-9-Achsen> maybe there is a namespace in c that troubles me
[18:32:57] <skunkworks> cnc-9-Achsen: I think you need those comands in the postgui.hal file. (the pyvcp pins are not active until after the gui loads)
[18:33:00] <cnc-9-Achsen> cradek: ?
[18:34:00] <cnc-9-Achsen> skunkworks: is this a need oly in this postgui or can i have the hal named different
[18:34:33] <cnc-9-Achsen> my hal is named castom_hal_test.hal
[18:35:05] <cnc-9-Achsen> all the others work perfect
[18:36:03] <cnc-9-Achsen> i need to give the pyvcp to the python and in the other direction
[18:36:49] <cnc-9-Achsen> so only postgui is working for pyvcp no other name
[18:37:10] <skunkworks> in the ini file do you have POSTGUI_HALFILE = example2.hal
[18:37:18] <skunkworks> (named your hal file_
[18:37:33] <cnc-9-Achsen> no
[18:38:51] <cnc-9-Achsen> POSTGUI_HALFILE = castom_hal_test.hal B)
[18:40:54] <cnc-9-Achsen> skunkworks: THANKS
[18:41:07] <skunkworks> did that work?
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[19:09:20] <andypugh> logger[mah]:
[19:09:20] <logger[mah]> andypugh: Log stored at http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc/2011-11-02.html
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[19:17:06] <cnc-9-Achsen> skunkworks: YES perfect
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[19:57:17] <Quack_> hello
[19:57:24] <Quack_> just checking in....i'll bbl
[19:58:18] -!- esmiralda_Q [esmiralda_Q!~chatzilla@chello084112030136.30.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #emc
[19:58:53] <esmiralda_Q> Hi emc folks - Does anyone use Visualmill/Rhinocam and EMC?
[20:02:36] <esmiralda_Q> It's about the post processor...and or ;-) Does anyone use EMC with a BZT milling machine?
[20:02:55] <Quack_> what's a BZT milling machine
[20:02:58] <Quack_> link pls
[20:03:05] <esmiralda_Q> Sry. I'm a cnc newbie...one sec
[20:03:33] <esmiralda_Q> http://www.bzt-cnc.de/en/shop/cnc-portal-milling-machines/25-baureihe-pfe?TreeId=4
[20:04:23] <Quack_> wow that's pretty tight
[20:04:46] <Quack_> it's like a gantry router, but it has a swivel head
[20:05:22] <Quack_> how much did that cost ( i gtg but just tell me when u get a chance) ?
[20:05:46] <andypugh> The prices are on that page
[20:05:50] <Quack_> oh it's about 4000 euro
[20:06:23] <Quack_> more like 5000 or 6000
[20:06:57] <esmiralda_Q> Since a few days I own one of those...I checked out windows nc tools eg. mach3 but I hate the interface and I donÄt trust windows about realtime op....
[20:07:20] <awallin> esmiralda_Q: did you have the control from bzt too?
[20:07:21] <esmiralda_Q> So EMC seems to be my way...
[20:07:24] <esmiralda_Q> yes
[20:07:38] <awallin> in that price-range I'd maybe look at servos also if I were buying new...
[20:07:56] <awallin> so what input does the control take? if it's step/dir you can probably use emc2
[20:08:07] <esmiralda_Q> I primary work with rhino and rhinocam...
[20:08:13] -!- acemi [acemi!~acemi@unaffiliated/acemi] has joined #emc
[20:08:23] <esmiralda_Q> but there is just a sireline post processor included...
[20:08:40] <esmiralda_Q> Its over LPT
[20:09:00] <Quack_> why did you buy that when you could get a much better mill
[20:09:07] <Quack_> that thing seems rather more like a router than a mill
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[20:09:34] <Quack_> i guess it depends what you want to do with it, sorry
[20:10:46] <esmiralda_Q> ok. donÄt hate about my mill ;-)
[20:11:20] <esmiralda_Q> I didn't buy this new...second hand - pretty cheap
[20:12:37] <esmiralda_Q> Now I try to get this up and running using rhinocam and EMC...
[20:12:56] <esmiralda_Q> First issue is the missing post pocessor in rhinocam...
[20:13:27] <Quack_> well it's good that you got it second hand
[20:13:38] <esmiralda_Q> Second Issue is the question if it is compatible with the control
[20:13:41] <cncbasher> esmiralds >ask Rhino people for emc post processor
[20:13:43] <Quack_> (sorry wish i could help with your software woes, but i'm newbie here too....still looking to buy)
[20:14:03] <esmiralda_Q> ok.
[20:14:10] <esmiralda_Q> I will
[20:14:50] <esmiralda_Q> Does emc support a tool measurement device?
[20:15:10] <esmiralda_Q> It's included...
[20:15:13] <awallin> there is probe-input yes
[20:15:28] <esmiralda_Q> ahh it's called probe-input
[20:15:30] <awallin> you need to figure out the pinout of the LPT. Were they suggesting mach3 ?
[20:15:30] <esmiralda_Q> ok.
[20:16:27] <esmiralda_Q> Already figured out...WHO?
[20:17:15] <esmiralda_Q> The previous owner used mach3...and I already milled whith this machine using mach3...but I wanna use emc...
[20:17:18] <awallin> does bzt suggest using mach3? if so the pinout is probably what mach3 uses, and probably included in the emc2 install
[20:17:23] <esmiralda_Q> no
[20:18:47] <esmiralda_Q> Tomorrow I will boot up emc live to test it....
[20:19:33] <esmiralda_Q> I tried a different pc using emc and this mill, but there was no, just no connection between emc and the control...
[20:19:45] <esmiralda_Q> Maybe a pc issue
[20:20:02] <esmiralda_Q> paralelle port setting should be EPP right?
[20:23:40] <esmiralda_Q> 'BIOS'
[20:24:52] <mrsun> yeha, my new furnace seems to maybe be a good one :P
[20:25:02] <mrsun> atleast for alu i will be able to melt copious amounts =)
[20:25:13] <mrsun> (calculated to about 10 - 15 liters of alu) :P
[20:25:45] <mrsun> its not cured yet so it steams like heck and i have no lid and i got the crucible to light yellow =)
[20:26:27] <awallin> umm I was told water + casting-stuff = bad idea
[20:26:48] <mrsun> awallin, im just heating the furnace to dry it out =)
[20:26:55] <mrsun> but still checking what temperatures i can get
[20:27:11] <mrsun> do not have anything to check with except eyeballing it tho :P
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[20:28:12] <archivist> I need to keep my infra red thermometer hidden :)
[20:29:33] <mrsun> where the heck do you find that can do more then like 1150 degrees celcius? :/
[20:29:47] <mrsun> found one for 1350
[20:30:18] <archivist> cant remember what the max temp is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Minolta-Land-Cyclops-33-Infrared-Thermometer-/140628824468?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item20be219194
[20:31:56] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEaGx6an4es&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
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[20:35:37] <mrsun> archivist, 1000 deg C
[20:36:54] <esmiralda_Q> ;-(
[20:39:19] <andypugh> skunkworks: He's using a rotary table as his B axis isn't he?
[20:39:32] <skunkworks> looks like it
[20:39:52] <skunkworks> bigger version of what chris did ;)
[20:39:57] <andypugh> Isn't Hoss a Mach-dude
[20:40:04] <skunkworks> yes
[20:40:13] <skunkworks> no kins..
[20:41:23] <andypugh> Ah, yes, esmiralda_Q Do you have 5 axes on your BZT?
[20:41:38] <archivist> and he thinks 1 thou error is nothing!!
[20:41:38] <esmiralda_Q> @andy: no, just 3
[20:42:05] <andypugh> Heck, I think 1 thou error is nothing :-)
[20:42:29] <skunkworks> heh
[20:42:38] <skunkworks> For what it is .001 seems pretty decent
[20:43:05] <skunkworks> I bet you breath on it and get .001 flex
[20:43:37] <andypugh> Anyway esmiralda_Q, the chances are that the G-code you get from your CAM will work. And EMC2 can be configured to work any LPT port machine, so you should be OK there.
[20:43:47] <archivist> yup the column is not big enough for less flex
[20:44:51] <andypugh> I have a very similar setup, and the column twists quite a lot. It was better until I put the slot in the front that allows me to have the ballscrew in the column. Like he has.
[20:44:52] <archivist> esmiralda_Q, you can probably ask rhinocam for a post to use/ start from
[20:45:37] <skunkworks> andypugh: pour some concrete around it ;)
[20:46:09] <andypugh> I used a plan B, bought a proper machine, from Yorkshire.
[20:46:14] <skunkworks> heh
[20:47:41] <esmiralda_Q> I will ask the rhino guys ...but what about the paralelle port settings /BIOS/
[20:47:53] <esmiralda_Q> EPP, ECP, etc...
[20:48:29] <andypugh> Doesn't matter for pin-level addressing.
[20:48:47] <esmiralda_Q> Are u serious?
[20:49:27] <andypugh> Assuming (and this is something of an assumption) that the protocol is step-direction and not binary communications.
[20:49:28] <esmiralda_Q> So the Bios LPT settings doesn't matter at all?
[20:50:11] <andypugh> I am hoping somone else will step up and confirm or deny my assertion.
[20:50:23] <esmiralda_Q> Me2
[20:51:25] <cncbasher> i'd guess ur right Andy
[20:51:41] <esmiralda_Q> I'm surprised, from my point of view it is the first important step....
[20:52:45] <skunkworks> esmiralda_Q: if you are using step/dir - the printer port is just used as a dumb i/o (bit banged)
[20:53:23] <esmiralda_Q> I see...
[20:53:25] <esmiralda_Q> cheers
[20:53:26] * skunkworks wonders if he used that term correctly
[20:53:51] <esmiralda_Q> why ;-)
[20:53:56] <syyl> it sounds correct ;)
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[21:15:16] <jdhNC> anybody using draftsight under windows by any chance?
[21:15:51] <cncbasher> got draftsight here John
[21:15:59] <jdhNC> windows?
[21:16:02] <cncbasher> yep
[21:16:10] <jdhNC> latest version from last week?
[21:16:26] <jdhNC> do relative coord. offsets work?
[21:16:33] <cncbasher> not updated it yet . but wont take me a min to do it
[21:16:43] <jdhNC> try it on the old one first
[21:16:47] <cncbasher> ok
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[21:34:54] <Jymmm> On a gas regulator, can I swap out a volume gauge with a pressure one?
[21:35:36] <jdhNC> if it has a flow gauge it will have a restricted orifce on the output side
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[21:37:03] <Jymmm> I have one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/regulator-gauge-94841.html
[21:38:04] <jdhNC> if you take off the hose barb, teh other brass piece probably has an orifice in it.
[21:38:43] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I took off the barb, but I'm not sure what you mean by orifice
[21:39:06] <jdhNC> does that brass peice have a relatively tiny hole in it?
[21:39:16] <Jymmm> Well, I replaced the bard with a quick release
[21:39:29] <Jymmm> like pinhole sized, no.
[21:40:35] <jdhNC> click for first point, move, click for 2nd
[21:41:34] <jdhNC> if you replace it with a gauge with pressure units, it will only be accurate if flow is not restricted coming out of the reg
[21:42:22] <Jymmm> with no flow coming out at all, I can adjust the knob and the gauge changes fwiw
[21:42:59] <jdhNC> the output side gauge changes?
[21:43:06] <Jymmm> yes
[21:43:16] <jdhNC> but, there is no gas flowing?
[21:43:25] <jdhNC> oh, you have it blocked downstream
[21:43:27] <Jymmm> correct
[21:44:07] <Jymmm> (there is a tiny tiny leak on the low side somewhere but not a biggy atm)
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[21:44:26] <Jymmm> between the barb and the high side of the regulator that is.
[21:45:04] <jdhNC> all of mine with flow guages had a restriction in that part coming out of the reg.
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[21:45:46] <Jymmm> Ah, well no biggy I guess. I think I have a pressure gauge around here I'll toss in line to get an idea.
[21:46:04] <Jymmm> I probably need to take the gauge off and add some teflon tape
[21:46:25] <jdhNC> 45 lpm isn't a lot of flow
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[21:46:55] <Jymmm> I'm more interested in 35 PSI
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[21:48:08] <Jymmm> jdhNC: It's hard for me to gauge what 45l/m really is
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[21:49:03] <jdhNC> 2-3lpm blows up your mouth slowly
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[21:57:36] <A2Sheds> 45l/m is like 90 pints of beer/minute
[21:57:54] <jdhNC> well, when you put it that way
[21:59:11] <jdhNC> but it's only 1.6cf/m
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[22:02:06] <andypugh> PCW: The new firmware has a different instance stride. Is that deliberate?
[22:07:24] <andypugh> ... but only in the 5i25 version, not the 5i23.
[22:10:11] <emcrules_mobile> andypugh: how is the 5i25 working out?
[22:10:42] <andypugh> Hard to say, I am only writing drivers, I don't intend to use it.
[22:11:45] <emcrules_mobile> ah is anyone using it or testing with it?
[22:15:47] <andypugh> JT has one.
[22:16:07] <DaViruz> JT are my initials too
[22:16:10] <PCW> No that would be a mistake Fixing now
[22:18:08] <PCW> There are maybe 10 out there now (not all for EMC)
[22:18:23] <Tom_itx> well they should be
[22:19:01] <emcrules_mobile> can they be bought?
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[22:19:22] <Tom_itx> sure can
[22:20:49] <emcrules_mobile> I assume the firmware supports the daughter stepper card
[22:21:06] <Tom_itx> some day
[22:21:51] <Tom_itx> actually i think that part may work
[22:22:10] * Tom_itx peeks over andypugh's shoulder
[22:22:13] <andypugh> emcrules_mobile: It depends which firmware you buy the 5i25 with. It is possible to change it, but not in the same way as the previous FPGA cards, and not in Linux
[22:22:21] <PCW> It does now (and has for a a couple months)
[22:22:30] <andypugh> The 5i25 works in the current 2.5 version
[22:23:01] <andypugh> Support for the 7i76 is very close. Like tonight or tomorrow close.
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[22:23:20] <PCW> what does not work yet is what Andy is working on right now (auto-config SSERIAL remotes)
[22:23:57] <emcrules_mobile> ah so what about the pendant card?
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[22:24:13] <emcrules_mobile> or is that the 7i76
[22:24:22] <PCW> so the step/dir and encoder work on the 5I25/7I76 but fields I/O does not work yet
[22:24:56] <andypugh> The pendant card is 7i77 I think, most of that should start working with the rest, as the driver is generic
[22:25:03] <emcrules_mobile> gotch ya
[22:25:17] <skunkKandT> PCW: when you guys get this nailed down - you should make a posting on cnczone..
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[22:25:41] <skunkKandT> Sounds really cool
[22:25:44] <PCW> 7I73 needs the autoconfig stuff as well, It will likely work in the bit I/O/encoder/analog in mode with the new autoconfig stuff, the LCD/KB still needs more work
[22:26:19] <andypugh> Yes, something that looks like a P-port with boards strung together with ethernet looks a lot less frightening than the other cards.
[22:26:38] <PCW> 7I77 is 6 channel analog servo interface, we have it working here and the auto-config stuff should support it as well
[22:27:37] <emcrules_mobile> is the 77 serial?
[22:28:08] <PCW> if andy got the bit shifts right (it has packed 14 bit analog DAC data at the register level)
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[22:28:43] <andypugh> I am 90% confident
[22:28:47] <PCW> yes and no encoders are standard (muxed) encoders and analog out is SSERIAL
[22:29:07] <emcrules_mobile> with all these new cards what's the future for the pci cards
[22:29:11] <PCW> so that about 10 bits out of 14 confident
[22:29:21] <andypugh> 5i25 is a PCI card
[22:29:32] <PCW> 5I25 is a PCI card...
[22:29:39] <PCW> Ha
[22:30:10] <andypugh> And most of the new cards work with the other PCI cards too.
[22:30:11] <emcrules_mobile> you know what I meant
[22:30:32] <PCW> I meant 12.6 bits
[22:30:38] <andypugh> I had the 7i69 and a 7i64 plugged into my 5i23 a few minutes ago
[22:31:08] <andypugh> I think the only card that won't (easily) work with a 5i20 or similar is the 7i76
[22:31:40] <skunkKandT> You will have to come up with an answer for why it won't work with mach...
[22:31:45] <emcrules_mobile> I see a shift to a lot of serial based daughter cards that's all
[22:32:00] <PCW> It would be pretty easy to make a adapter so DB25 daughtercards could run on 50 pin FPGA cards
[22:32:01] <emcrules_mobile> windoze
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[22:33:01] <andypugh> emcrules_mobile: The SSLBP cards connect to the usual 50 pin headers vai a 7i44.
[22:33:09] <PCW> The serial stuff mainly to save FPGA pins, they are really wasted for GPIO
[22:33:23] <emcrules_mobile> I know I have one
[22:33:31] <PCW> is mainly
[22:34:53] <emcrules_mobile> don't get me wrong I like the serial stuff. I was just wondering if over time we would just see something like a 5i20 with one headder
[22:35:13] <PCW> I think thats the 5I25...
[22:35:17] <andypugh> Even the 5i25 has two.
[22:35:35] <andypugh> Well, little ones, probably equal to one big one.
[22:36:15] <PCW> Well there is a card coming out thats like the 5I25(no bridge) but has 3x 50 pin connectors (5I24)
[22:36:37] <andypugh> Yes, I think that is the best way to think of the 5i25, the low-cost single-header member of the family.
[22:37:15] <emcrules_mobile> it does make deciding where to locate hardware eaiser
[22:37:15] * andypugh is waiting for a firmware...
[22:37:42] <PCW> Oh freeby.mesanet.com/7i76x2.bit
[22:38:08] <PCW> I built it when you asked and instantly forgot...
[22:38:20] <Tom_itx> great minds...
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[22:39:19] <PCW> ANd its possible to re-write the firmware on Linux it just need the BLOAD program hacked a fairly severe amount
[22:39:29] <PCW> BFLOAD
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[22:40:35] <PCW> let me see if the 7I77 works better with TX1 and RX1 instead of TX1 and TX1...
[22:41:49] <emcrules_mobile> was that firmware called the wife? TX TX TX
[22:44:19] <PCW> Well I had them reversed so i fixed them bu incompletely
[22:44:30] <skunkKandT> btw you guys are awesome!
[22:45:21] <emcrules_mobile> ditto
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[23:08:18] <skunkKandT> when a coolant return hose gets stuck in the over travel limits - that sucks
[23:08:23] <andypugh> PCW: Is [ 1271.907025] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Smart Serial Firmware Version 170
[23:08:24] <andypugh> correct
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[23:10:25] <emcrules_mobile> how can I hide irc chat at work?
[23:10:26] * skunkKandT gives andypugh a ?
[23:11:15] <andypugh> Tiny USB screen under the desk?
[23:11:19] <PCW> No that means you are reading the data register too soon after a reset (0xAA is put in there as a flag for this)
[23:11:42] <skunkKandT> Phone app
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[23:12:27] <emcrules_mobile> no way to use an encrypted connection? or tunnel
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[23:13:49] <andypugh> PCW: I am writing 0x2003 to the command reg, waiting for it to clear, then reading the data reg.
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[23:16:47] <andypugh> And it used to read the version correctly. However, that does explain why I am not reading errors back, I think.
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[23:28:08] <PCW> I think its possible you are writing the 2003 before SSLBP is ready (after a reset)
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[23:29:44] <andypugh> I have a 10mS delay immediately before it.
[23:30:24] <andypugh> I can make it longer?
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[23:33:58] <PCW> 10 ms is likely not enough (we have to do many multiply/divides to calculate baud rate/ timervals etc based on the clock)
[23:34:38] <andypugh> 20 minutes?
[23:35:16] <andypugh> 100mS sound enough. It doesn't matter, as it is setup code
[23:35:17] <skunkKandT> keep checking for a few seconds... then if there isn't any result - error?
[23:35:40] * skunkKandT is a armchair programmer
[23:36:20] <andypugh> And the world needs programmable armchairs
[23:37:27] <PCW> Heres a possible way:
[23:37:29] <PCW> write 0x4000 ; assert reset
[23:37:30] <PCW> write 0x0001; de-assert reset
[23:37:32] <PCW> wait for command clear (Yay! reset done!)
[23:37:57] <andypugh> 0x0001 ? I am writing 0x0000
[23:38:34] <PCW> welll that prevent you knowing when its done reseting
[23:39:05] <andypugh> Easy fix.
[23:39:09] <PCW> you could also write most any no-op command
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