#emc | Logs for 2011-10-30

[00:02:09] <MattyMatt> I knew my gd, but he didn't talk shop. I think he wanted better for me
[00:02:16] <andypugh> MattyMatt: My sister: https://picasaweb.google.com/doltonsjewellers/Workshop#5032587453469365410 (isn't that the cutest welding torch?)
[00:03:18] <JT-Shop> oxy acetylene torch?
[00:03:32] <JT-Shop> talk about focus
[00:03:41] -!- theorb [theorb!~theorb@] has joined #emc
[00:03:53] <andypugh> oxy-hydrogen, made by electrolysis in a unit under the bench,
[00:03:59] <syyl> ah
[00:04:07] <syyl> got one of that units too
[00:04:11] <JT-Shop> neat
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[00:04:24] <syyl> they are awesome for silversoldering small parts
[00:04:28] <MattyMatt> I know a guy who makes them for dentists. easy £1000
[00:04:34] <JT-Shop> I used my tig welder to weld up some steriling silver rings for my neighbor
[00:05:16] <andypugh> JT-Shop: What mode problem?
[00:05:25] <JT-Shop> on the forum
[00:05:59] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,12073/limit,6/limitstart,150/lang,english/#14405
[00:06:53] <JT-Shop> he took you too literal sserial_port_N=nnnnnnnn
[00:08:16] <andypugh> Yeah. It's like some people aren't programmers _at_all_ !
[00:08:22] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:08:37] <JT-Shop> n = put some number in there!
[00:08:48] <MattyMatt> then why are they using computers *grumble*
[00:09:25] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop is that a lower case number??
[00:09:42] <JT-Shop> yea, upper case numbers are N
[00:09:49] <Tom_itx> thought so
[00:10:05] <andypugh> It's an upper-case number for the port, and a lower case number for each channel, obviously
[00:10:17] <MattyMatt> ⁿⁿⁿ <- high number
[00:10:57] * JT-Shop smells beef cooking on the stove and wanders in to investigate the source of the aroma
[00:11:07] <andypugh> The chinese have a set of "financial" number glyphs designed to make it difficult to modify them into higher values.
[00:12:13] <andypugh> (Once again I am reading a Neal Stephenson novel and spending time on Wikipedia)
[00:12:15] <MattyMatt> good plan. the russian ones can be enhanced by putting more sweat marks around them
[00:13:55] <MattyMatt>
[00:14:28] <MattyMatt> or are they bling flashes?
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[00:22:06] <andypugh> Sorry, I got quite distracted by Wikipedia there
[00:29:57] <MattyMatt> I find it hard to call WP a distraction compared to IRC ;)
[00:31:07] <MattyMatt> cats were making burglar noises. gotta be alert tonight, with ExplosionFest and TeenDiabolismFest so close together
[00:31:13] <andypugh> Well, we don't all have our own page!
[00:31:43] <skunkKandT> we?
[00:31:44] <MattyMatt> easily remedied, as long as you cite reliable sources
[00:32:02] <skunkKandT> emc has a wiki page
[00:32:09] <Tom_itx> some of us do
[00:32:28] <MattyMatt> [1] my mom
[00:33:06] <andypugh> [Citation beeded]
[00:33:17] <andypugh> [Spell-check needed]
[00:34:37] <Tom_itx> i should play with that boot usb thing to see if i can make it work
[00:34:42] <MattyMatt> I'm gonna find out doctor who's middle name, and change all his refs to Matt T. Smith
[00:35:34] <MattyMatt> he looks like a Tarquin to me
[00:36:05] <andypugh> Well, the current one is a Tarquin, but they haven't all been
[00:37:44] <andypugh> Hmm, Wiki says Matthew Robert Smith is Dr Who, but I thought he was in The Cure?
[00:38:21] <MattyMatt> that doesn't help me. I got confused with him too when I had the hair
[00:39:41] <MattyMatt> anyway, fame is irrelevant without the fortune. I'd rather be anon
[00:40:08] <MattyMatt> but loaded
[00:40:49] <andypugh> Yeah, of the two parts of "rich and famous" the first is by far the best to have.
[00:41:14] <Tom_itx> hold the 2nd part until i'm gone
[00:41:45] <MattyMatt> yeah like segway owner. nobody heard of him until he "bought it"
[00:42:13] <MattyMatt> that's an embarrasment you don't want to be there for :)
[00:44:05] <andypugh> Last month was a bad one for motorcycling geeks who like Apple stuff (Simoncelli, Ritchie, Jobs)
[00:44:05] <MattyMatt> I wonder how that affected sales
[00:46:19] <MattyMatt> and john mcarthy, altho he was only 2nd most famous of that name
[00:46:26] <andypugh> I wonder how Job's death has affected iPhone sales, it seems to be selling amazingly well for a minor upgrade
[00:46:48] <MattyMatt> samsung have just overtaken
[00:47:07] <andypugh> In what metric?
[00:47:09] <MattyMatt> so it's just market slope probably
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[00:47:45] <MattyMatt> units sold
[00:47:57] <MattyMatt> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15489523
[00:49:00] <andypugh> Yeah, Googling. But then that is third-quarter. I was talking about the 4S which has sold spectacularly since launch.
[00:50:47] <MattyMatt> I wish my iphone game was selling enough for me to have an iphone
[00:51:18] <MattyMatt> actually it is, just, if I didn't have better shiz to spend on
[00:51:55] * FinboySlick reiterates his disdain for all things phone.
[00:52:04] <skunkKandT> I had some weird facetting on a round milled part.. Only 1. I am thinking (hopefully) that I didn't clamp it in the chuck tight enough. Following error while cutting (3ipm) is .00002
[00:52:04] <MattyMatt> I got me a new drill press with the last cheque
[00:52:06] <skunkKandT> "
[00:52:26] <FinboySlick> We're in the process of becoming a (CRTC approved) phone company. That system is rotten to the core.
[00:53:46] <skunkKandT> MattyMatt: what do you make with your tools?
[00:53:54] <MattyMatt> more tools!
[00:53:59] <skunkKandT> heh
[00:54:01] <skunkKandT> endless cycle
[00:54:25] <MattyMatt> mill improvements were held up by lack of good drill
[00:54:28] <FinboySlick> Anyone gotten into induction heaters for part hardening?
[00:55:13] <MattyMatt> not yet. grinder and some kind of heater are next on my list
[00:56:08] <FinboySlick> I'm kind of fascinated by 'em.
[00:56:10] <MattyMatt> even the homebrew induction heater costs $750 for the kit, so that's outa my league
[00:57:55] <MattyMatt> and you probably need a bunch of coils for different shapes
[00:58:44] <MattyMatt> I think a good hot oven is more useful and cheaper
[00:58:55] <FinboySlick> And each would have different inductance which means either an adaptive circuit or tweaking for each.
[00:59:28] <FinboySlick> That said, you can do some funky localized heating and stuff with induction heaters.
[00:59:48] <FinboySlick> Knife where only the edge is hardened and the rest is springy, etc.
[00:59:58] <MattyMatt> yeah I guess
[01:00:45] <Tom_itx> or clay
[01:00:55] <MattyMatt> skilful quenching seems to be key for hardening long parts tho, which is what I want (homemade ballscrews etc)
[01:01:30] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: That's a bit more along the lines of localized cooling, no?
[01:01:39] <andypugh> I bought the stuff to make one of these: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms/Elec_IndHeat1.html but have since realised that basing all the sequencing, signal generation and adaption on an Arduino makes a lot more sense.
[01:02:27] <andypugh> I did some work on quenching cabon steel into molten sodium hydroxide. Exciting stuff.
[01:03:18] <MattyMatt> book I read said molten saltpetre
[01:03:30] <MattyMatt> fun to buy in UK town
[01:03:57] <andypugh> Sodium hydroxide has a better specific heat, and better infra-red transparency.
[01:04:29] <MattyMatt> I did try and buy some when I was 9, the chemist just stared at me hard and said he didn't support bombmaking
[01:04:41] * FinboySlick goes back to arguing with his ALIX emc-box-to-be.
[01:04:45] <MattyMatt> I wondered how he knew
[01:05:26] <andypugh> The only thing I found that might be better was "Flinak" which is a eutectic mixture of lithium, sodium and potassium flouride, and really not something you want to spend too much time with.
[01:06:29] <andypugh> Yeah, it's almost like small boys came in all the time looking for gunpowder materials
[01:06:30] <FinboySlick> Have you guys read about that guy in michigan (I think) who came up with 7% improvements on steel tensile strength?
[01:06:34] <MattyMatt> I'm not sure I'd want to dip a sooty rod into saltpetre indoors
[01:07:40] <MattyMatt> FinboySlick: yeah I think I did read about that on bbcnews
[01:08:20] <andypugh> Yeah? Do tell? My experiments got us to 2GPa...
[01:08:20] <FinboySlick> I don't think it works for all shapes but it's mighty impressive, even if he can only do sheets with his process.
[01:08:55] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Some sort of flash-quenching involving induction heaters.
[01:09:07] <FinboySlick> I'm not all that great with metalurgy.
[01:09:32] <andypugh> Hmm, I suspect is is nothing new.
[01:09:39] <FinboySlick> But apparently neither was he. Just stumbled upon it and then asked some university eggheads to confirm.
[01:10:01] <andypugh> I used to be one of those
[01:10:06] <FinboySlick> Had to drag them over, they said it couldn't be done until they saw the samples.
[01:10:15] <MattyMatt> metallurgy is loads more complex than I used to imagine
[01:10:48] <andypugh> Yeah, the sodium hydroxide was about steering the steel onto the right part of the TTT diagram line
[01:10:55] <MattyMatt> I think all I can do is learn a few standard alloys and stick to them
[01:11:46] <andypugh> If you look at the first graph here: http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/tttdiagram.html
[01:12:05] <skunkKandT> isn't this a cool following error graph http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=181513
[01:12:15] <FinboySlick> andypugh: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110609173718.htm
[01:12:24] <skunkKandT> x and y making a 3 inch ish circle
[01:12:32] <skunkKandT> (section of it)
[01:12:45] <skunkKandT> peak error looks like .00002"
[01:13:13] <andypugh> What we wanted was a very steep drop to what is 800F on that curve, and then to hold that temperature until Mf. That way you get the finest possible Pearlite, and no pesky bainite or martensite.
[01:13:16] <FinboySlick> skunkKandT: oooh, I was immortalized in your screenshot.
[01:13:29] <skunkKandT> I try... ;)
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[01:15:20] <MattyMatt> I need to memorise all the forms. pearlite's the one with alternating layers?
[01:15:38] <andypugh> FinboySlick: He re0invented "Patenting", sounds like _exactly_ the process I was working on.
[01:16:20] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Rearden, is that you?
[01:16:37] <andypugh> I think it is more that he found an ignorant professor than that he found a truly novel process.
[01:17:19] <andypugh> FinboySlick: ? I think a cultural reference passed me by there.
[01:17:29] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Atlas Shrugged.
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[01:17:57] <andypugh> Ah read it 30 years ago, only remember the cigarettes.
[01:18:32] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Maybe he just might make it marketable. If it can be done easy and cheap, I'd still call it progress.
[01:19:49] <andypugh> It's the "secret" process of Lee Steel Strip. That article is low on figures, but Lee can make steel up to 4GPa in strip.
[01:20:52] <FinboySlick> I see.
[01:21:18] <andypugh> (4GPA = 290 tons / sqin = 580ksi)
[01:21:57] <FinboySlick> sounds like it might make good cabling.
[01:22:20] <MattyMatt> yeah bridge cables is the only immediate use I can think of
[01:23:15] <andypugh> http://www.durferrit.de/en/produkte/waermebehandlung/bainitisieren.htm
[01:23:19] <FinboySlick> If the strip can be any width, might make some cool sheet-metal parts (as in car panels) too.
[01:23:34] <andypugh> It's mainly used for coil springs
[01:23:36] <FinboySlick> Assuming the steel is still workable once treated.
[01:24:07] <andypugh> After heat treatment it is, but then they cold-roll it to heck
[01:24:37] <andypugh> And by the time it is cold rolled to 4GPa it's not got a lot of ductility left.
[01:26:22] <andypugh> It wouldn't be great for car panels. It would be a lot stronger, but no stiffer. If you made it the same strength, but thinner, the stiffness would be a fraction of the norm, and the car would vibrate like a gong.
[01:27:22] <MattyMatt> and cars aren't supposed to be strong these days anyway
[01:27:28] <FinboySlick> So basically, we'd be back to 90s GM cars.
[01:27:40] <andypugh> It's worth remembering that all steels, from the mildest of mild to the strongest of tool steels have almost exactly the same modulus of elasticity (stiffness).
[01:31:14] <MattyMatt> that surprises me a bit. my intuition is harder=stiffer
[01:32:03] <andypugh> It's only true up to the limit if elasticity.
[01:32:08] <MattyMatt> but that's probably inelastic deformation making me think that
[01:32:12] <MattyMatt> yep
[01:32:51] <andypugh> This is cool, but why was it invented by a medical school urology department? http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
[01:33:37] <MattyMatt> I'm making my next mill & lathe in granite-epoxy. casting iron is futile around here. too many tinkers sucking up every piece of scrap iron and getting it straight down to the docks
[01:34:41] <FinboySlick> andypugh: 'invented' is a strong word. I've been toying with that concept for a while now.
[01:35:09] <MattyMatt> it's obvious once you've seen it :) nice find
[01:35:21] <FinboySlick> But I hadn't seen it!
[01:35:36] <MattyMatt> too late. I have :D
[01:35:38] <FinboySlick> Gimme all the credit!
[01:35:41] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Well, too late now, they have the patent.
[01:36:13] <MattyMatt> bugger. I'd just about finalised my rotary table
[01:36:26] <andypugh> But they don't seem to have realised that it lets you assemble a fully-enveloping worm, which is normally impossible.
[01:37:02] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Can you expand on that without compromising your own future patent? ;)
[01:38:13] <andypugh> Well, an obvious improvement on a normal worm is to make the worm hour-glass shaped to have more teeth in contact. But at some point you just can't assemble it (you _could_ 3D print it already in mesh)
[01:38:21] <MattyMatt> I don't like the recirculating through the shaft, but I guess it doesn't weaken it much and is neat
[01:38:26] <FinboySlick> That's what I thought.
[01:38:44] <andypugh> A ball worm lets you put the "teeth" in afterwards
[01:39:27] <andypugh> The clever part of the ball-worm is in having a non-threaded outer guide surface
[01:40:12] <MattyMatt> mine has hourglass worm, or rather 2 halves for anti-backlash
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[01:41:37] <MattyMatt> plan B is full hourglass, then a bevel gear to 2nd worm at 90deg
[01:42:14] <MattyMatt> because of the crappy materials I'm planning to use
[01:42:19] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: What about backlash to the bevel gear?
[01:42:23] <andypugh> Time to sleep for me
[01:42:34] <MattyMatt> FinboySlick: that's the problem :)
[01:42:38] <andypugh> Have fun inventing
[01:42:44] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Nite nite.
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[01:43:10] <MattyMatt> I'm only up because of toothache and roaming teens on haloween duty
[01:43:10] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: What I had been thinking was more like two parallel worms with a belt.
[01:44:07] <MattyMatt> and 2 gears?
[01:44:15] <FinboySlick> No, each side of the same gear.
[01:44:28] <MattyMatt> ah yeah, neat
[01:44:55] <MattyMatt> yep that sounds good
[01:45:12] <MattyMatt> ball worm blows all these away tho. that rocks
[01:45:53] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: Yeah. I wonder if I could get away with milling the worm and still get good results.
[01:46:18] <MattyMatt> I should think so
[01:46:31] <MattyMatt> case harden it after maybe
[01:46:47] <FinboySlick> Or a very good ballnose in an already hard material.
[01:47:40] <FinboySlick> Diamond burr maybe? I spin fast enough to grind something like that if I can get the right tool in the spindle.
[01:47:40] <MattyMatt> mine will be milled in delrin. I still play with toys
[01:48:42] <FinboySlick> I guess the only bit that has to be very precise is the one squeezing the ball to the gear.
[01:48:42] <MattyMatt> I'm only making because I can't afford to buy plain iron&steel ones
[01:49:24] <MattyMatt> the precision only seems to be needed to spread the load
[01:50:07] <MattyMatt> the precision of the motion will be better afaics,
[01:50:20] <FinboySlick> Yeah, come to think of it, this would work just as well with a V groove.
[01:51:17] <MattyMatt> run it in with one set of balls, then put in fresh ones for service
[01:51:54] <FinboySlick> Hehehe, I better learn how to use my mill first. That first part was a disaster.
[01:52:20] <FinboySlick> Chipped both corners of my endmill.
[01:52:21] <MattyMatt> someone in US sells 1/8" balls in various oversizes for ballscrew restoration
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[01:52:50] <FinboySlick> I found balls to be surprizingly cheap.
[01:53:00] <MattyMatt> and a couple of undersizes, which would be neat for running in
[01:55:49] <MattyMatt> I thought it was dumpsterCNC, but I don't see the balls on his site anymore
[02:00:21] <MattyMatt> ah, they're easy to get on ebay
[02:02:46] <MattyMatt> maybe run in with abrasive grit, and then clean thouroughly and use fresh balls?
[02:03:30] <MattyMatt> and probably replace all the other bearings you've ruined at the same time :)
[02:05:10] <MattyMatt> the only other way I've thought to grind a ball groove is with a carefully radiused stone wheel
[02:06:14] <MattyMatt> and/or a radius grinding arangement
[02:06:43] <FinboySlick> what about an abrasive rod of the right diam set at the proper angle?
[02:06:54] <FinboySlick> That way, you can slowly plunge to compensate for wear.
[02:07:10] <MattyMatt> doable. wire-edm maybe better
[02:07:51] <FinboySlick> Hehe, at that point you might as well buy the wormgear ;)
[02:08:03] <MattyMatt> if you just want one
[02:09:28] <FinboySlick> Allow me to vent a little frustration about uClibc.
[02:09:32] <FinboySlick> There, all done.
[02:09:45] <MattyMatt> for supercheap rotary, I'm making a printable gear that's driven by M8 as the worm
[02:10:12] <FinboySlick> Printable? As in 3d printer?
[02:10:16] <MattyMatt> yep
[02:10:46] <MattyMatt> printing machine tools is a bit depraved, but we've all got to start somewhere
[02:10:52] <FinboySlick> Won't that wear out very fast?
[02:10:57] <MattyMatt> oh yes
[02:11:02] <MattyMatt> :)
[02:11:17] <MattyMatt> that's the first lesson
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[02:11:59] <MattyMatt> you can always print fresh parts, if you wern't finished making a better one
[02:13:00] <FinboySlick> You have a point there.
[02:13:24] <MattyMatt> 4th axis on a reprap will help people to think of it as a tool and not a piece of office eqpt, or worse a magic star trek replicator
[02:14:21] <MattyMatt> it poops plastic, which is a neat trick but not the answer to everything
[02:14:22] <FinboySlick> I guess that lets you maximize resolution to areas that really need it.
[02:15:10] <MattyMatt> it sure makes gears etc easier to gcode
[02:16:05] <MattyMatt> I'm using a bare stepper as my 4th atm, but that limits me to gears with factor of 200 teeth
[02:16:21] <MattyMatt> ^on my dremel pushing mill
[02:16:38] <MattyMatt> which is only slightly stiffer than a reprap
[02:16:54] <FinboySlick> Make toothed belt pullets to improve your ratio?
[02:17:02] <FinboySlick> pulleys
[02:17:09] <MattyMatt> done. haven't assembled yet
[02:17:17] <MattyMatt> 0.1 degrees
[02:17:22] <MattyMatt> 9:1 ratio
[02:17:41] <MattyMatt> but now I need a chuck
[02:17:51] <FinboySlick> I bought a 4th axis with my mill, but it looks like a standard hand-driven rotary with a stepper bolted to it, I don't expect very good backlash characteristics.
[02:18:39] <MattyMatt> don't they all have antibacklash drive? if not software compensation should be excellent
[02:19:22] <FinboySlick> Well, the worm is in an eccentric assembly so I can tighten it to the gear but that only gets you so far.
[02:20:29] <MattyMatt> assuming the teeth on the gear are regular, they are all drivenb by the same part of the worm so backlash should be consistent and repeatable
[02:21:02] <MattyMatt> afaics
[02:22:11] <MattyMatt> and for most stuff, you can code it so you only turn one direction
[02:23:30] <MattyMatt> my gear cutting ends up with huge A angles
[02:23:37] <FinboySlick> Yeah, probably won't be a few months before I find out. Between work and learning to use the mill, I'm definitely not there yet.
[02:24:41] <MattyMatt> A axis was a breeze for me. I do a tooth in plain 3 axis co-ords, G1 An , repeat
[02:25:25] <MattyMatt> it gets way more complicated when you use different co-ord systems
[02:25:52] <FinboySlick> I'm lazy, I have my cam software figure it out ;)
[02:26:03] <MattyMatt> blender is my CAM
[02:26:09] <FinboySlick> blender is awesome.
[02:26:35] <MattyMatt> so I hand code most of my gcode now, with just fragments exported from blender script
[02:26:51] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: Actually, want to see my first blender project?
[02:26:59] <MattyMatt> go on then
[02:27:33] <MattyMatt> none of mine are online. I'm webcodaphobic
[02:28:08] <FinboySlick> I'll just send you the .blend ;)
[02:28:52] <FinboySlick> Hmm, not sure if that client supports file transfers.
[02:29:32] <MattyMatt> I might have rest my router since I opened the dcc port
[02:29:37] <MattyMatt> reset
[02:31:00] <MattyMatt> hmm, I need to tidy up mendel.blend and release a new one. the latest one is full of toolpaths
[02:31:18] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: You using 2.5?
[02:31:21] <MattyMatt> also I need to add the new mendel model. 60% fewer parts
[02:31:36] <MattyMatt> not atm. none of my scripts work in 2.5
[02:32:13] <FinboySlick> OK. I updated recently but haven't touched it since 2.49. I don't know how to start the game engine in 2.5 :P
[02:32:18] <MattyMatt> it's OK tho, I can load files saved on 2.5. all I seem to lose is the metric/imperial setting
[02:33:02] <MattyMatt> yeah I've got a game city all done in BGE
[02:33:14] <FinboySlick> What's the key in 2.49?
[02:33:19] <FinboySlick> F9 or F10, no?
[02:33:29] <MattyMatt> for what?
[02:33:37] <FinboySlick> Starting the game engine.
[02:33:40] <MattyMatt> P
[02:33:54] <MattyMatt> or alt-P, I forget
[02:34:10] <FinboySlick> It's P, but I didn't build my 2.5 copy with a game engine.
[02:34:15] <FinboySlick> Anyway.
[02:34:26] <MattyMatt> it's not compatible for sure
[02:35:05] <MattyMatt> the new game engine is based on a C++ one. Ogre I think
[02:35:33] <MattyMatt> maybe not. Ogre is just rendering, but the game engine that's usually used with Ogre
[02:35:46] <FinboySlick> http://www.filedump.net/index.php?pic=minerproto14blend1319942132.zip
[02:36:10] <FinboySlick> I mate extensive use of Bullet Physics.
[02:36:20] <FinboySlick> Actually had the dev add a few features in 2.49 for me.
[02:36:50] <FinboySlick> Try the qawsedrfzx keys.
[02:37:00] <FinboySlick> They control various parts of the little guy.
[02:38:23] <MattyMatt> I've only got 2.46 on this machine, it's what Deb Lenny has on the repo
[02:38:37] <FinboySlick> Oh, it probably won't work then.
[02:38:52] <FinboySlick> I need the very latest (with those features in) 2.49.
[02:40:23] <MattyMatt> I'll look tomorrow. I'm putting 2.49 on a Deb 6 machine, and I'm gonna start building it myself, 2.49 and 2.5. I want to try and add some features
[02:40:50] <FinboySlick> I haven't used 2.5 yet but the physics bits of the 2.49 game engine are awesome.
[02:41:23] <MattyMatt> yep I use them in 2.46. I have a stone bridge that collapses (too easily)
[02:41:56] <MattyMatt> I beefed up the foundations but it still sags
[02:42:06] <MattyMatt> and then collapses after about a minute
[02:42:22] <FinboySlick> The file I sent you is a skid-steer (bobcat platform) mining robot an actual mining company had asked me to conceptualize.
[02:42:51] <FinboySlick> I had quite a bit of fun on that, and it was paid work :)
[02:43:44] <MattyMatt> I'm not sure I got the file. it's not in my downloads and I can't see it in archive manager or anything. I'm too tired to deal with this now
[02:44:01] <MattyMatt> I've got the url saved tho, for another go
[02:45:14] <MattyMatt> I'll take my toothache to bed, while the painkillers are working. this tooth isn't coming out tonight however much I waggle it
[02:45:38] <FinboySlick> I don't envy you that.
[02:45:41] <MattyMatt> it's like being 7 again
[02:45:53] <FinboySlick> Wouldn't know, never even had a cavity.
[02:46:28] <MattyMatt> I'll be happy with plastic teeth that work now
[02:46:38] <MattyMatt> I haven't enjoyed an apple for years
[02:46:57] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: you're going to give me nightmares ;)
[02:47:18] <MattyMatt> oh it's just old age. it happens....if you're lucky
[02:47:24] <MattyMatt> ;)
[02:47:45] <FinboySlick> My nick makes me seem younger than I am.
[02:48:04] <FinboySlick> As is my bright-eyed attitude, but that's mostly just my admiration for all the smart people here.
[02:49:12] <MattyMatt> well I did just say I feel like a 7yo myself ;)
[02:49:25] <MattyMatt> I got more use out of the 2nd set than the 1st
[02:50:02] <MattyMatt> I'm going to mill my own falsies
[02:50:13] <MattyMatt> maybe with embedded LEDs
[02:51:01] <MattyMatt> multicoloured flashing LEDs and playing a tune
[02:52:42] <MattyMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IvXNo_5LMk&feature=related
[02:53:16] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: Made me think more of the latest Rammstein show.
[02:55:01] <MattyMatt> it's defo too late for heavy metal. gn
[02:55:02] <FinboySlick> WOOHOO! RTAI finally loads.
[02:55:14] <Jymmm> RTAI Simulaor
[02:55:24] <FinboySlick> No, porting emc to an uclibc system.
[02:55:54] <FinboySlick> RTAI re-implements libm, but it still uses the *system* math.h and mathcalls.h
[02:56:02] <FinboySlick> Expecting them to be the glibc variant.
[02:56:10] <FinboySlick> Took me a month to figure out the mess.
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[04:00:12] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Seen memleaks around?
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[07:49:55] <vitaeear> hi emcusers, i would like to use a Gcode loop (while endwhile) but i want to give an operator choice to goes out from the loop . i dont know how to do this . an idea?
[07:55:59] <archivist> you can use M66 to look for an input
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[08:57:10] <vitaeear> hi archivist , it seem to be a good idea, i have a touch screen (modbus) linked to classic-ladder. i can add a button "one more time" and a button "finish". to stay or to goes out from the loop
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[11:16:44] <crazy_imp> heyho
[11:18:40] <crazy_imp> is there something like a gcode simulator where you can /place material inside/ and take a look on it after milling? (maybe even export as .stl or something like that?)
[11:19:32] <crazy_imp> like the simulation feature from emc, but with a set cutter side and a solid block below which will preview the real piece
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[12:09:36] <jthornton> most high end CAM programs do that
[12:10:36] <crazy_imp> jthornton: do you know any opensource one that does?
[12:11:02] <jthornton> heekscad might, I'm not sure
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[12:22:31] <awallin_> crazy_imp: I've been working on a cutting simulation, but it isn't quite ready yet (we need your help if you're a talanted c++/qt/gui/opengl programmer!)
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[13:08:07] <cnc-9-Achsen> Hi all nice sunday
[13:10:08] <jthornton> yes a lovely day to move the 6,000lb CHCN from the garage to the shop
[13:14:16] <cnc-9-Achsen> jthornton: so no time at all
[13:14:34] <jthornton> ?
[13:14:54] <cnc-9-Achsen> i though you might can help me to overcome my communicatin problem from the pendand to the hal
[13:15:48] <cnc-9-Achsen> the pendant rotory selects 4 feedrate
[13:16:05] <jthornton> for the MPG?
[13:16:07] <cnc-9-Achsen> this is comunicated to the python as J1-J4
[13:16:43] <cnc-9-Achsen> no the mpg is ok my problem is this MUX4 understanding
[13:16:54] <jthornton> ah
[13:17:50] <cnc-9-Achsen> in alll examples there are and on sel used
[13:18:15] <cnc-9-Achsen> the python can also set a halFloat pin
[13:18:16] <jthornton> sel0 and sel1
[13:18:37] <cnc-9-Achsen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Adding_More_Controls_To_Simple_Remote_Pendant
[13:19:07] <jthornton> wow that is a busy page
[13:19:23] <cnc-9-Achsen> so as im in python and recive my J1 to J4 cat i set a Halfloat to a nummber and this is giben to the jog speed ?
[13:19:49] <jthornton> I've never seen that page before
[13:20:09] <cnc-9-Achsen> net joy-speed-final halui.jog-speed <= pendant.speedfload
[13:20:20] <cnc-9-Achsen> isent this posible
[13:22:14] <jthornton> does it give you an error?
[13:22:48] <cnc-9-Achsen> im searching for the right way to do this befor i start !
[13:22:58] <jthornton> breakfast calls bbl
[13:23:00] <jthornton> good plan
[13:23:26] <cnc-9-Achsen> c.newpin("speedfload",hal.HAL_FLOAT, hal.HAL_IN)
[13:23:58] <cnc-9-Achsen> this woudt giv me the float var for the pendant
[13:24:50] <cnc-9-Achsen> my values are
[13:25:55] <cnc-9-Achsen> it woudt be isier to do this in that way instet setting 4 Hal_bit and walk throu sel mux4.0.in0...in3
[13:26:02] <cnc-9-Achsen> easyer
[13:26:08] <cnc-9-Achsen> mutch B)
[13:27:15] <jthornton> false alarm breakfast not for 8 minutes
[13:27:32] <cnc-9-Achsen> i try this and give you a resault in the example there is mutch convusion going on over converting to float_32 maybe this is
[13:30:19] <cnc-9-Achsen> a problem to solve the float from the pendand has not the same type as emc axs needs
[13:30:19] <jthornton> looks like that page was for an older version of EMC
[13:30:20] <cnc-9-Achsen> therfor conner and me are working hald to get a runing pendant for all need
[13:30:20] <jthornton> ah I see
[13:30:20] <cnc-9-Achsen> and cradek overrides this in 2.5 for better hal coom
[13:30:21] <cnc-9-Achsen> comunication
[13:30:21] <jthornton> I like this one http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[13:30:38] <cnc-9-Achsen> yes but there are also 3 pins Buttons need to set the speed
[13:30:58] <cnc-9-Achsen> as we have ARDUINO connection via serial this is not the need
[13:30:58] <jthornton> yep, works like a champ on my plasma cutter
[13:31:41] <cnc-9-Achsen> i got the pendand both way so you got also the AXIS values on the other side of the mashine
[13:31:51] <jthornton> neat
[13:32:21] <cnc-9-Achsen> we are still below 100 Eur for al the stuff if you mitt the PCB your own
[13:32:55] <jthornton> mine was $15
[13:32:56] <cnc-9-Achsen> chinese wil soon copy this if its published
[13:33:11] <jthornton> they are watching you now :)
[13:33:21] <cnc-9-Achsen> i got lots of mail
[13:33:40] <cnc-9-Achsen> even from rus
[13:33:45] <jthornton> they will make one for 1/2 that and will break after a day or three
[13:34:05] <jthornton> now it is really breakfast time
[13:34:34] <cnc-9-Achsen> Happy Haloween
[13:34:47] <cnc-9-Achsen> by im trying this
[13:35:15] <cnc-9-Achsen> <- getting some icecream from the PX
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[14:07:17] <Jordinarr> Hello, is it possible to connect a rotary / incremental encoderto an 8I20 + 7I44 card? Or is another card needed?
[14:07:34] <Jordinarr> I think 8I20 lacks an input for encoders?
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[14:41:28] <JT-Shop> the 7i44 is just a breakout card
[14:41:38] <JT-Shop> the CHNC has left the building :)
[14:45:35] <Jordinarr> this means I need another card to get the job done?
[14:46:34] <Jordinarr> e.g. 4I30 + 8I20 + 7I44 could work together?
[14:51:39] <JT-Shop> possible combinations of Mesa hardware http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,27/id,1325/lang,english/
[14:56:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Thank you, thank you very much!
[14:56:29] <pcw_home> If you want a single interface to SSERIAL devices (like the 8I20) and encoders, one appropriate daughtercard would be a 7I52
[14:56:31] <pcw_home> (6 channel RS-422 + 6 channel encoder interface)
[14:58:49] <Jordinarr> hm, I see the list, but I'm not sure how to connect a rotary encoder to 8I20 + 7I44 - pcw_home, you mean not possible? So 8I20 + 7I52 would be appropriate?
[15:01:09] <JT-Shop> move CHNC 18' West.... check
[15:06:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: See chiropractor
[15:06:23] <pcw_home> Well its possible but very awkward to use a 7I44 for encoder inputs
[15:14:36] <Jordinarr> So an RJ45 Breakout card with encoder inputs isn't available? (as 7I52 is only RS-422)
[15:16:25] <Jordinarr> or could I stack somehow a 4I30 to my 8I20 + 7I39? As the 4I30 has encoder inputs
[15:17:55] <JT-Shop> no need to see a quack Jymmm
[15:18:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: What, just lots o' beer??
[15:20:04] <syyl_> bah
[15:20:11] <syyl_> i hate wiring...
[15:20:36] <Jymmm> wiring what? a bilding or equipment?
[15:20:42] <syyl_> both :D
[15:20:52] <syyl_> but at the moment, my cnc..
[15:21:01] <Jymmm> building == pita, equipment == easy
[15:21:05] <syyl_> changed a bit in the electrics cabinet
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[15:23:29] <ktchk> Hi I have the problem "ibus input for chinese cause keyboard Stop movimc2"
[15:25:21] <pcw_home> 7I52 just needs a different cable for 8I20 (screw terminal plug one end, RJ45 plug other end = CAT6 patch cable cut in half
[15:26:17] <Jordinarr> but no chance to get 4I30 involved to read encoders?
[15:27:51] <pcw_home> no
[15:28:09] <Jordinarr> thx, this helps me.
[15:28:44] <pcw_home> 4I30 is a PC104 = ISA quad encoder card (of ancient vintage ~1990)
[15:29:32] * Jymmm translates no == nu uh, no way, aint gonna happen, not a chance in hell, homie dont play that, oh hell no, hahaha, in your dreams, etc... any questions?
[15:29:58] <Jymmm> pcw_home: 8 or 16 bit ISA ?
[15:30:26] <syyl_> that was explicit, Jymmm ;)
[15:30:47] <pcw_home> 8 bit
[15:30:48] <Jymmm> syyl_: Please rephrase that in the form of a question.
[15:31:13] <Jymmm> pcw_home: hawt damn! I can repurpose my 486DX25 =)
[15:31:25] <syyl_> *scratches his head*
[15:31:27] <syyl_> why? Oo
[15:31:44] <Jymmm> syyl_: why what?
[15:31:50] <Jymmm> Nn
[15:32:36] <pcw_home> Hey its uses _serial_ 32 bit accumumlators for the counters cobbled together with PALS and a RAM chip
[15:32:58] <syyl_> uhm
[15:33:29] <syyl_> dont get, why i should rephrase it into a question..but maybe its just a problem with my english ;)
[15:34:25] <Jymmm> syyl_: Or, instead of a problem with your english, I could just be fscking with you =)
[15:34:49] <syyl_> hmpf :D
[15:39:03] <Jymmm> Just curious... Is this beneficial to anyone? http://i39.tinypic.com/25ppidj.jpg
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[15:55:02] <Tom_itx> Jymmm isn't a quack?
[15:59:15] <JT-Shop> 4' more to the north then go west young man
[15:59:59] <Tom_itx> one two three.... shove ... one two three... shove
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[16:04:56] <JT-Shop> more like crank crank crank on the come-a-long... it moves real easy
[16:06:19] <Tom_itx> where's your team of mules?
[16:12:56] <ktchk> Hi I have the problem "ibus input for chinese cause keyboard Stop movimc2"
[16:13:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Not a licensed one at least
[16:15:40] <JT-Shop> move CHNC 18' North... check
[16:15:51] <JT-Shop> open shop door... check
[16:16:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: O_o
[16:16:27] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: can you translate that?
[16:16:34] <Tom_itx> Jymmm why aren't you there helping him?
[16:16:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Sure, WTH?
[16:16:49] <Tom_itx> he's part of the crew that watches
[16:16:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the same reason you're not.
[16:17:13] <Tom_itx> no, i haven't had breakfast yet
[16:17:21] <Jymmm> there ya go
[16:20:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Plus if you think about it, you are closer to his TZ than I am.
[16:21:12] <Tom_itx> you have a couple hours on me though
[16:21:16] <Tom_itx> so chop chop
[16:21:48] <Jymmm> you think this is chop suey or what?
[16:27:47] <grommit> I have two joints (motors) on one axis using gantrykins. If I try to jog in joint mode using the keyboard keys, it appears that one of the joints moves at a slightly different speed then the other eventually causing the gantry to twist. Why would they jog at different speeds?
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[16:47:32] <cnc-9-Achsen> Hi back again with lots of problems
[16:47:47] <Tom_itx> why are you using float?
[16:47:50] <cnc-9-Achsen> jthornton: still in heavy waightlift
[16:48:34] <cnc-9-Achsen> Tom_itx: to me ?
[16:48:58] <Tom_itx> yessiree
[16:49:40] <cnc-9-Achsen> cause halui.jog-speed takes float
[16:50:02] <cnc-9-Achsen> i try it the best way
[16:50:23] <Tom_itx> are you making this from scratch?
[16:50:33] <cnc-9-Achsen> as there are many thinks involved like arduino python and hal
[16:50:53] * Tom_itx shudders at the word 'arduino'
[16:50:57] <cnc-9-Achsen> yes and all from the start
[16:51:17] <Tom_itx> i've had more support issues in #avr over arduino than anything else lately
[16:51:18] <cnc-9-Achsen> it works perfect to the python
[16:52:00] <cnc-9-Achsen> python to hal is not good for some rasen the other way hal to python works
[16:52:24] <anonimasu> arduino's standard libs are a bloated piece of shit.
[16:52:35] <cnc-9-Achsen> i have in0.05sec the 3axis value updated
[16:52:49] <Jymmm> anonimasu: Don't hold back, say how you really feel =)
[16:52:57] <cnc-9-Achsen> the Estop and conection also the F2 Mashine start works both ways
[16:53:00] <Tom_itx> he was holding back Jymmm
[16:53:06] <anonimasu> 6 times overhead for writing a pin... is kind of shitty
[16:53:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I know
[16:53:18] <Tom_itx> last guy thag brought it up got beat to a pulp
[16:53:22] <Tom_itx> i was there :)
[16:53:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: no pulp in my OJ, TYVM
[16:53:49] <cnc-9-Achsen> for me it works
[16:54:18] <Tom_itx> cnc-9-Achsen, i know.. i just hate the mentality of some that ask about them
[16:54:35] <Tom_itx> it doesn't allow them to think
[16:55:08] <Jymmm> zombie arduinos ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOO HOO
[16:55:21] <cnc-9-Achsen> SO question do i need to keep the halpin for setting "net feed_jog_x_plus halui.jog.0.plus <= pendant.x_positiv_feed_move" up for some time i tryd 0.1 but nothing happens
[16:56:04] <cnc-9-Achsen> it works perfec on pyvcp testing but not when the python sets the pin
[16:56:29] <cnc-9-Achsen> im also not giving any error out of emc
[16:56:38] <Tom_itx> maybe you need a scope
[16:56:40] <cnc-9-Achsen> starting from terminal
[16:57:09] <grommit> cnc-9-Achsen wrote "cause halui.jog-speed takes float". Was that in response to my question about different jog speeds?
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[16:57:42] <cnc-9-Achsen> yes
[16:57:47] <grommit> Is there a way to make sure they jog the same speed?
[16:58:02] <Jymmm> grommit: Got Rope?
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[16:58:27] <cnc-9-Achsen> what Axis and Pendant grommit
[16:58:50] <grommit> Y axis and using keyboard keys
[16:59:01] <cnc-9-Achsen> maybe i do have to enable somthing for jogging
[16:59:40] <grommit> keyboard keys: "[" and "]" for joint 1, and up/down arrow for joint 3
[16:59:54] <cnc-9-Achsen> the pyvcp also does nothing enable
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[17:04:03] <Tom_itx> cnc-9-Achsen are you using buttons or rotary switch for your axis and steprate?
[17:05:42] <cnc-9-Achsen> Tom_itx: this does not mather cause it is prcessed by arduino
[17:06:04] <cnc-9-Achsen> the python recives a string
[17:06:25] <cnc-9-Achsen> FEX+Y0Z0J1
[17:06:44] <cnc-9-Achsen> Feed Enable move X positiv at Feed J1
[17:07:31] <cnc-9-Achsen> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/301011180528_Bildschirmfotoemc_5.png
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[17:07:37] <cnc-9-Achsen> this is the code
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[17:09:12] <cnc-9-Achsen> for testing now the "halui.jog-speed" is fixed at 50
[17:09:40] <Tom_itx> you may need a spellchecker on some of that
[17:09:44] <Tom_itx> unless it was intentional
[17:10:16] <cnc-9-Achsen> spellchecker woud rise an error on emc
[17:10:44] <cnc-9-Achsen> pendant.x_positiv_feed_move no HAL_bit if ther where an error
[17:12:58] <cnc-9-Achsen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Halui here it sais bit or float
[17:13:30] <JT-Shop> the CHNC is in the Shop :) a nap just became a viable option again
[17:13:32] <Tom_itx> i don't have feedrate override on mine
[17:13:33] <Tom_itx> yet
[17:13:45] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop call in the electrician
[17:14:07] <cnc-9-Achsen> JT-Shop: Nice no break at all
[17:14:15] * JT-Shop calls jthornton
[17:14:51] <cnc-9-Achsen> in this Example ->
[17:14:54] <cnc-9-Achsen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Adding_More_Controls_To_Simple_Remote_Pendant
[17:15:37] <cnc-9-Achsen> the Halbit in from the pendand is processet to 3 stages before setting the hal.jog.n.minus
[17:16:53] <cnc-9-Achsen> the bit in sets a oneshot at 0.5
[17:16:57] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I just pushed it into the shop with the kobota side by side
[17:17:08] <cnc-9-Achsen> and the oneshot sets the motion
[17:17:40] <Tom_itx> that reminds me. i have a bad button on mine to replace
[17:17:47] <cnc-9-Achsen> oh kobota is proused here with TERREX on side
[17:18:04] <cnc-9-Achsen> i will try this
[17:18:15] <cnc-9-Achsen> more servo treads
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[17:35:03] <cnc-9-Achsen> is there a ay to simulate the HAL without EMC running ?
[17:35:36] <cnc-9-Achsen> import hal is a python
[17:36:02] <cnc-9-Achsen> c = hal.component("pendant") fails
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[17:59:21] <cnc-9-Achsen> lsusb fail i need to rstart
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[18:03:52] <grommit> setting halui.jog.speed doesn't help. still jogging at different rates
[18:04:26] <grommit> halui.jog-speed that is
[18:11:27] <JT-Shop> WEEEEEEE! the CHNC has landed
[18:11:56] <JT-Shop> that went easier than I anticipated
[18:12:01] <syyl_> chnc?
[18:12:34] <JT-Shop> Hardinge CHNC CNC chucker lathe about 6k lbs
[18:12:46] <syyl_> oh
[18:12:48] <syyl_> nice
[18:13:05] <JT-Shop> this one http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
[18:13:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: CHNC elevated 12 ft.... CHECK!
[18:13:29] <syyl_> thats no toy ;)
[18:13:42] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: CHNC lowered 1.4598652" CHECK
[18:14:04] <Jymmm> heh
[18:14:11] <JT-Shop> no it is in nice shape but a bit limited to size of the part you can work on as there is no tailstock
[18:14:37] <JT-Shop> I can pass 1.625" diameter through the spindle and 16C collet
[18:14:55] <JT-Shop> I have an 8" 4 jaw chuck for bigger things
[18:16:02] <syyl_> mh
[18:16:14] <syyl_> in my world, that big enough for most of my jobs :)
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[18:17:49] <JT-Shop> 10 months from poring the slab and the CHNC is in place... along with a bunch of other equipment... not bad for an old fart
[18:18:03] <crazy_imp> can i convince emc (or some part of it) to print out the toolhead position in stepwise ?
[18:18:07] <JT-Shop> one more biggie to go the BP VMC
[18:18:49] <JT-Shop> crazy_imp: can you rephrase that a bit? I'm not understanding your question
[18:19:21] <crazy_imp> JT-Shop: ok
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[18:20:06] <crazy_imp> i can convert the ngc files with rs274 into /simpler/ gcode (or a more suported subset (doing loop unrolling and such stuff afaik)
[18:21:32] <JT-Shop> what ever you said is over my head sorry
[18:22:22] <archivist> crazy_imp, ask a better question
[18:22:33] <crazy_imp> right now i'm looking for something, converting the code into even smaller bits
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[18:22:41] <JT-Shop> or a more detailed one
[18:22:51] <JT-Shop> describe smaller bits
[18:23:04] <Jymmm> (nibble)
[18:23:09] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/181607
[18:23:18] <crazy_imp> like G2 X1 Y1 -> X0.1 Y0.1; X0.2 Y0.2; ...
[18:23:24] <archivist> crazy_imp, er....just look at a line at a time
[18:23:45] <JT-Shop> you mean to scale it to a smaller size?
[18:24:20] <archivist> or cut a long move to separate smaller moves
[18:24:28] <archivist> but why
[18:24:31] <crazy_imp> archivist: yes
[18:25:13] <archivist> I cant see a need to do that
[18:25:16] <crazy_imp> i want to make a graphical representation of the workpiece after running the code
[18:27:16] <crazy_imp> emc shows the toolpath, but i want positions of the tool (with x as difference between the points), to feed it into some CSG tool, generating a model of the workpiece
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[18:28:46] <archivist> what awallin_ is doing is the probably the right way, also look at the simulator stuff, vismach, in emc
[18:29:32] <crazy_imp> sadly the cutsim tool from awallin fails right now quite hard :(
[18:29:50] * JT-Shop hears a nap calling...
[18:30:08] <archivist> crazy_imp, well try fixing
[18:30:39] <crazy_imp> i already did and it still segfaults at another place :D
[18:30:40] <archivist> it is not a trivial problem to solve
[18:31:20] <crazy_imp> but i'll try an older commit, awallin_ just gave me a pointer on how long ago it was working :)
[18:31:26] <archivist> I personally think python is just wrong for the job as it will be too slow
[18:32:43] <crazy_imp> who said python?
[18:34:01] <archivist> vismach is in python
[18:34:23] <crazy_imp> ah, ok
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[18:36:05] <awallin_> crazy_imp: I just made the cutsim4 example code work. it's in examples/cutsim4 you will need to "sudo make install" the cutsim target from src/cutsim first. That should give you an idea of how it's supposed to work..
[18:38:16] <crazy_imp> ok, i'll give it a try
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[19:17:29] <tom3p> will there be an ubuntu 11 emc2 in 1st half of 2012? ( should i bother maintaining 8.04 systems or move up )
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[19:17:54] <tom3p> Oneiric Ocelot wth is oneiric?
[19:19:29] <tom3p> /ōˈnīrik/Adjective:v Of or relating to dreams or dreaming i like one eric better
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[19:21:52] <cnc-9-Achsen> Hi im Back !
[19:22:08] <cnc-9-Achsen> fighting hard did it now it works
[19:22:14] <cnc-9-Achsen> but !!!
[19:22:51] <cnc-9-Achsen> there is a hal bit that indicates that the joint has stoppt or reatct is destination ?
[19:23:39] <cnc-9-Achsen> i coudt ot find the list of halcommands of 2.4 as im not in the Home ther its on the pc
[19:24:14] <cnc-9-Achsen> please where is theis html docu where all this 2.4 hal commands are in
[19:24:42] <cnc-9-Achsen> by the way the keyboard exeption mayd my day
[19:24:57] <cnc-9-Achsen> shit 2hous of searching
[19:25:17] <cnc-9-Achsen> now the arduino is faster then the emc
[19:25:34] <cnc-9-Achsen> i need to flush the comands on jogging
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[19:26:15] <cnc-9-Achsen> cradek: ? 2.4 hal commands list
[19:26:24] <cnc-9-Achsen> Join
[19:26:30] <cnc-9-Achsen> joint
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[19:27:43] <cnc-9-Achsen> maybe i will send a command to the arduino and keep im fro sending till the move has stopt
[19:28:24] <cnc-9-Achsen> butt better to wait and lisen on the python if maybe E-stop accours
[19:29:06] <cnc-9-Achsen> and flush all the commands till the joints reatcht the destinations
[19:30:07] <cnc-9-Achsen> but i need the command name and i canot find this docu sheed
[19:31:28] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
[19:36:33] <cnc-9-Achsen> Thanks
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[19:46:02] <cnc-9-Achsen> thwere is no command indicating that the axes are moving
[19:47:45] <cnc-9-Achsen> thanks for that i will overcam this tomorrow
[19:48:30] <ktchk> Hi I have the problem "ibus input for chinese cause keyboard Stop movimc2"
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[20:29:56] <A2Sheds> anyone have a favorite supplier of abrasive waterjet cutting heads?
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[20:52:42] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Wow... You got one or you're looking to make one?
[20:54:38] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: make
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[20:55:17] <FinboySlick> Very cool.
[20:55:32] <FinboySlick> I'm fairly close to giving up on the alix :P
[20:55:53] <A2Sheds> frustration with RTAI?
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[20:56:20] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Freeze the whole machine with no message whatsoever when I start the latency test.
[20:58:45] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I know I asked trice but what was that atom board with awesome latency?
[20:59:09] <A2Sheds> oh, it was a core 2 duo board with 945
[20:59:53] <FinboySlick> Hmmm...
[21:00:02] <FinboySlick> Still available?
[21:00:19] <A2Sheds> trying to find the link
[21:00:32] <FinboySlick> I'll bookmark it this time.
[21:01:00] <A2Sheds> I'm actually using a different core 2 duo now with 945, jitter is ~3K if you keep the core busy
[21:01:26] <A2Sheds> runs for a while at 500, firefox always bumps it to 3K
[21:02:35] <A2Sheds> http://www.acrosser.com/products/AR-ES0892_detail_id_413.html here's the one that was under 1K jitter
[21:02:36] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: What about running headless? Exporting the X display through SSH.
[21:02:49] <A2Sheds> haven't tried
[21:03:50] <A2Sheds> the MSI 7267 core 2 duo + 945 is using the on-chip gpu as well
[21:04:24] <A2Sheds> without the keep busy loop it runs around 60K jitter
[21:04:46] <FinboySlick> keep busy?
[21:05:12] <A2Sheds> keeps the core busy
[21:05:56] <FinboySlick> OK, some sort of module param?
[21:05:56] <A2Sheds> while true ; do echo "nothing" > /dev/null ; done
[21:06:10] <FinboySlick> Oh, you just plain keep it busy.
[21:06:19] <A2Sheds> GRUB: "isolcpus=1"
[21:06:49] <A2Sheds> yeah, then it drops from 60K to 3K , running all week no matter what we throw at it
[21:07:22] <A2Sheds> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?RealTime
[21:07:55] <A2Sheds> adding a PCIe gpu card didn't effect the latency at all
[21:10:23] <FinboySlick> OK.
[21:10:36] <FinboySlick> did the crosser need any of that?
[21:11:06] <A2Sheds> I don't know all the details, it's just what i was told
[21:15:59] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: is it winter there yet?
[21:16:09] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: First flakes today.
[21:16:52] <FinboySlick> Of course, they're Canadian flakes, one of 'em killed the neighbour's dog.
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[21:56:37] <memleak> FinboySlick: You should submit your patches to mante on the RTAI development mailing list before disposing the patches.
[21:58:19] <FinboySlick> memleak: they're pretty ugly hacks, just replacing system header files with local ones its built-in libm doesn't get confused when it's being built on non-glibc platforms.
[21:58:48] <FinboySlick> memleak: BTW, hi :)
[21:59:23] <FinboySlick> memleak: what were the kernel bits you had suggested I enable/disable? Maybe I missed one and that's why my machine freezes.
[22:00:14] <memleak> Are you trying to port RTAI to a newer kernel? If so, replacing headers and changing configs won't help much.
[22:01:00] <FinboySlick> memleak: No, I'm on 2.6.35 as you recommended. I'm trying (and succeded) to make RTAI build on uClibc.
[22:02:42] <memleak> Well RTAI is closely wrapped around GLIBC. The only thing smaller than GLIBC would be EGLIBC, and its more closely related and compatible with a lot more GLIBC functions than UClibc.
[22:03:10] <memleak> If you want to actually get RTAI working with UClibc, you should turn on the debugging features in the config to get started.
[22:04:22] <memleak> Printk, verbose debugging within IPIPE, then on the kernel command line, let it spew on the serial port to a different PC if you have another one.
[22:04:24] <FinboySlick> memleak: Yeah. At least it builds and loads into the kernel without problem.
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[22:05:42] <FinboySlick> I'll probably go back to glibc for now, too much work to tweak everything for uclibc.
[22:06:11] <memleak> EGLIBC would most likely work fine, I've never tried it, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. GLIBC I know for a fact works.
[22:07:46] <memleak> GLIBC 2.13=<, GCC 4.5.3 or 4.6.1, and Binutils 2.21 work great
[22:08:22] <FinboySlick> eglibc is probably no better in this case than uclibc. It's only real advantage as far as I could find out is that it is *binary* compatible with glibc, it's still different code.
[22:09:36] <memleak> EGLIBC is also further optimized and offers more customization and speed, while smaller than GLIBC.
[22:09:53] <memleak> I have to go now.
[22:10:06] <FinboySlick> Be well, and thanks.
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[22:11:23] <memleak> GLIBC 2.14 I haven't managed to compile from source yet though. Take care!
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[22:21:14] <mrsun> hmm, cast alu vs cast iron, more then wear resistance why use cast iron ? :)
[22:22:06] <FinboySlick> mrsun: If you want to avoid vibration, more mass might be an advantage.
[22:23:15] <mrsun> true
[22:23:31] <mrsun> but strength wise etc
[22:25:05] <FinboySlick> mrsun: I think cast iron might be stronger per volume (though not per weight unit).
[22:25:16] <FinboySlick> But I'm not very good at that stuff yet.
[22:25:35] <Danimal_garage|2> hi
[22:26:07] <mrsun> imo it seems that alu is less crack prone also, trying to kick of an 1 inch piece off cast alu compared to cast iron imo alu seems stronger =)
[22:28:02] <pcw_home> AL has larger coefficient of expansion though
[22:28:55] <mrsun> ahh =)
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[22:30:16] <mrsun> almost double off cast iron
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[22:52:18] <anonimasu> cast iron is alot better at damping vibration then alu is..
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[22:53:10] <anonimasu> tho, what frequency your damping depends heavily on mass
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[23:02:11] <andypugh> Cast Iron is a _lot_ stiffer too.
[23:03:08] <Tom_itx> more thermally stable too
[23:04:34] <andypugh> Aluminium has a Young's Modulus of about 70, cast iron is around 200
[23:04:40] <andypugh> (That's GPa)
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[23:37:52] <pcw_home> Andy I notice the auto-sserial stuff does not support bidirectional pins
[23:37:54] <pcw_home> I think logically, These should be supported by having both input and output pins
[23:38:57] <pcw_home> (The 7I69 uses these in its default bi-directional mode)
[23:43:23] <pcw_home> (and a bidirectional pin must increment both the input and output bit pointers in the get and put buffers)
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[23:44:40] <jdhNC> anyone have an easy/cheapish .us source for single side copper PCB?
[23:44:54] <Tom_itx> how much do you need?
[23:45:35] <jdhNC> two 4"x4" pieces and two 2"x2"
[23:45:47] <jdhNC> the 2's are really 1.75
[23:45:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/Copper2.jpg
[23:46:03] <Tom_itx> i could spare that
[23:46:22] <Tom_itx> where are you?
[23:46:45] <jdhNC> 28409
[23:47:03] <Tom_itx> east?
[23:47:08] <jdhNC> wilmington.nc.us
[23:47:14] <Tom_itx> Ks
[23:47:22] <Tom_itx> can you cut it?
[23:47:26] <jdhNC> sure
[23:47:27] <andypugh> pcw_home: Ah, yes, I was not entirely sure what to do with bidirectional pins.
[23:47:38] <Tom_itx> pay the shipping and it's yours
[23:47:49] <andypugh> And not having seen any, I wasn't sure what to expect.
[23:48:28] <jdhNC> those top pieces are like 6x16"
[23:48:44] <andypugh> I wasn't sure if making them into bidirectional HAL pins was the correct thing to do.
[23:49:31] <Tom_itx> jdhNC, i'll cut em down a bit
[23:49:47] <Tom_itx> to fit a 6x9 padded envelope
[23:50:00] <Tom_itx> 3 enough?
[23:50:07] <jdhNC> that woudl be excellent
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[23:50:16] <jdhNC> I could screw some up that way.
[23:50:21] <Tom_itx> $5 should cover shipping
[23:50:28] <jdhNC> PP?
[23:50:30] <Tom_itx> usps
[23:50:46] <Tom_itx> pm
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[23:51:11] <Tom_itx> it'll need a 3m pad to clean it up a bit
[23:51:14] <pcw_home> There are bidirectional pins in mode 0 on the 7I69 (hardware wise they are open drain)
[23:51:16] <pcw_home> There are active low so we do the inversion ( a '1' output is a low on the interface)
[23:51:18] <Tom_itx> but it's good FR4 board
[23:51:18] <pcw_home> this means bidirectional pins use as inputs must have the correesponding output set to 0
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[23:52:15] <pcw_home> I think its best that they be separate inputs and outputs at the HAL level
[23:53:48] <Danimal_garage|2> yay for working on a sunday
[23:54:26] <andypugh> OK, so I append a -in and a -out on the name string?
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[23:57:30] <pcw_home> Let me look at the cover source
[23:57:54] <Tom_itx> jdhNC, appears this one is single sided: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/Copper3.jpg
[23:59:05] <Tom_itx> most ppl are after double sided these days
[23:59:10] <jdhNC> heh, that's huge.
[23:59:19] <Tom_itx> half a sheet
[23:59:23] <jdhNC> this is for a brushboard for a DC motor
[23:59:27] <Tom_itx> i had to cut em down to store them
[23:59:51] <jdhNC> 8 brushes, about 16amp max
[23:59:52] <Tom_itx> well? i don't wanna cut it if you're getting from ebay