#emc | Logs for 2011-10-13

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[00:00:56] <tom3p> andypugh, maybe, but i moved most of my detect/sampling circuit out to hardware so rc is simpler.
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[00:02:00] <tom3p> i would like to clear the integrator and ship out the new value at each servo period, but havent found a signal that aligns to that edge.
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[00:03:42] <PCW> With the THCAD if you use D/DT you get the integrated analog voltage over the measurement interval
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[00:05:08] <PCW> I guess thats the same with the encoder velocity signal as well (counts/period)
[00:06:26] <JT-Shop> I thought Peter was on Vacation?
[00:06:42] <tom3p> PCW thx, what marks the measurement interval? ( i bought the THCAD but needed to use some existing circuitry for this EDM project )
[00:07:08] <tom3p> is there any signal that marks the servo period ( that marks the servo update ?)
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[00:14:56] <tom3p> PCW dropped out... i dont find D/DT in the THCAD manual is there another term for changeinsensed/changeintime for me to look for?
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[00:36:24] <tom3p> PCW: i dropped out again, sorry. is it the frequency counter mode?
[00:40:27] <ds3> it is amazing what air assist will do
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[00:48:06] <PCW> Yes that what the velocity estimation does
[00:48:29] <tom3p> thx
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[01:09:13] <Jymmm> I just pulled out some snack bars that I've had in storage and expired 11 years ago. still chewy, but went rancid.
[01:09:35] <Jymmm> flavor not bad though (other than the rancid part)
[01:10:48] <Tom_itx> don't off yourself with your survival skilz
[01:11:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: say that again?
[01:11:30] <Tom_itx> don't poison yourself trying to save yourself
[01:12:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Ah, heh. I actually looked up if rancid is harmful. They said it's not but is an aquired taaste in some parts of the world.
[01:13:16] <A2Sheds> ever been to japan?
[01:13:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I've stored and aged a lot of off-the-shelf foods just to see how they hold up.
[01:13:48] <A2Sheds> or stinky tofu in Taiwan
[01:13:59] <Jymmm> Never store anything but hard candy, individually sealed prefered.
[01:13:59] <Tom_itx> i wonder if the crackers in all those missle silos are still good
[01:14:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Since when does cardbaord go stale?
[01:14:28] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: 1000 year old egg
[01:14:48] <Jymmm> Tuna in the can leaked
[01:15:23] <Jymmm> Vacumm sealed jar of nuts, kept the seal, but went rancid.
[01:15:51] <Jymmm> Dity Moore beef stew held it's own surprisingly, as did SPAM
[01:16:34] <alex4nder> Jymmm: that's what Mad Max ate in the Road Warrior, so that makes sense.
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[01:17:28] <A2Sheds> Jymmm: what year is all this from? 95 or so?
[01:17:58] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I called Hormel, they said that as long as the container maintains it's integrity, SPAM has an indefinite shelf life
[01:18:24] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: the snack bars expired in JAN2000
[01:18:44] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I tested the other stuff for 36 months
[01:18:54] <Jymmm> stored in a 5 gal bucket in a shed
[01:19:12] <alex4nder> nice
[01:20:10] <Jymmm> I've found tuna in a pouch, as well as spam in a pouch both just this month
[01:20:23] <alex4nder> those are good, but like MREs their shelf life is limited
[01:20:53] <Jymmm> MRE's are 1) NASTY, 2) Expensive, 3) Bulky
[01:21:15] <alex4nder> I read something about retort pouches life being comprimised because of a desire to make microwave safe pouches.
[01:21:17] <Jymmm> I keep trying different ones, either too much salt, or dredful.
[01:21:22] <alex4nder> yah, MREs suck
[01:21:31] <Jymmm> retort?
[01:21:41] <alex4nder> that's the pouch
[01:21:48] <Jymmm> oh
[01:22:01] <A2Sheds> didn't Nasa find some food that lasted over a decade? IIRC it was freeze dried
[01:22:08] <Jymmm> These are "Spam Singles Lite"
[01:22:51] <alex4nder> A2Sheds: yah.. Mountain House warrants their freeze dried food in the 10 lbs can for over 10 years
[01:22:59] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I've got those and the tuna ones in my bug-out-bag
[01:23:02] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: Heh, ww2 SPAM survived and they had warehoused SO much of it, that Iirc in the 1980's they sent it all to be repacked in new containers to last another 4000 years
[01:23:08] <alex4nder> haha
[01:23:46] <Jymmm> seriously (well, another 40 years I guess)
[01:24:01] <A2Sheds> I heard they were using it as mortar for rebuilding schools in Afghanistan
[01:24:10] <Jymmm> I'm not found of freeze dried as you need lots of water to eat
[01:24:18] <Jymmm> fond
[01:24:29] <alex4nder> A2Sheds: the mortar is the aftermath of eating the spam.
[01:24:42] <Jymmm> and I tried the Mountain House stuff, it's pretty bad too
[01:25:10] <alex4nder> mountain house is good for camping/going out on foot
[01:25:18] <Jymmm> the BEST thing (nutrition wise) I found is Cliff bars, but they have a short shelf life.
[01:25:34] <Jymmm> 6 months or so
[01:25:38] <Jymmm> 6-9 mnths
[01:26:10] <Jymmm> dont taste THAT bad
[01:26:37] <Jymmm> Gotta be better than brick ration
[01:26:45] <Jymmm> 3600 calorie bars
[01:26:51] <Jymmm> 5yr shelf
[01:28:09] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I've been liking some of the indian food available in retort pouches.
[01:28:21] <alex4nder> some of it is really tasty, and not salted to all hell
[01:28:34] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I haven't seen that, links?
[01:30:39] <Jymmm> Sine we don't drink milk, just for cooking. It's hard to have some on hand. Found Milk-in-a-box that is SHELF-STABLE (requires no refrigeration) and tastes good too.
[01:31:05] <alex4nder> Jymmm: http://www.amazon.com/Kitchens-India-Ready-Pindi-10-Ounce/dp/B000LKTW5S/ref=sr_1_1?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1318469427&sr=1-1 <- like that, but cheaper.. I picked some up at World Market.
[01:31:07] <Jymmm> at the dollar store no less. good stuff
[01:31:28] <alex4nder> yah, UHT milk is good
[01:31:29] <Jymmm> alex4nder: foil pouch inside?
[01:31:38] <Jymmm> UHT ?
[01:31:58] <alex4nder> Jymmm: yah
[01:32:03] <alex4nder> Ultra High Temperature Pasteurized
[01:32:18] <Jymmm> cool, I'll check it out. we LUST indian food
[01:32:27] <A2Sheds> chick peas... didn't they ban those on submarines?
[01:33:00] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I was actually surprised by how decent it was.
[01:33:38] <Jymmm> alex4nder: yeah, it's really good. And GREAT for cooking. always keep some in the cabinet for that.
[01:35:38] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Heh... http://www.foodrenegade.com/just-say-no-to-uht-milk/
[01:37:15] <alex4nder> Jymmm: yah, some people need to manage their diets more than others.
[01:37:38] <Jymmm> alex4nder: =)
[01:37:41] <alex4nder> when I lived in europe I drank a lot of UHT, and as far as I know I didn't have any problems with it.
[01:37:49] <alex4nder> but that's just me
[01:37:55] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Don't Buy/use Nalgen bottles. This is funny... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dchHMIDbuKI&feature=related
[01:38:17] <alex4nder> hah
[01:38:18] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Eh, didn't you know... Crossing the street causes cancer!!!!
[01:38:29] <alex4nder> the only thing I stay away from is epoxy coated cans
[01:38:36] <alex4nder> especially for tomatoes
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[01:38:59] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I dont know which canned foods use epoxy
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[01:39:53] <A2Sheds> bisphenol
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[01:40:11] <alex4nder> yah
[01:40:37] <Jymmm> BPA
[01:40:41] <alex4nder> Jymmm: the bisphenol A leaches from the coatings, especially with acidic foods
[01:41:01] <alex4nder> it's hard to escape it though, some foods just aren't sold in glass or tertrapak
[01:41:01] <A2Sheds> would you be willing to pay 1 cent more per can to not have a coating with BPA?
[01:41:02] <ds3> Jymmm: do you do semi production laser runs?
[01:41:02] <Jymmm> Oh, I thought that was just in plastic bottles
[01:41:03] <alex4nder> er tetra
[01:41:43] <Jymmm> ds3: I usually do a test run before going full bore. Is that what you mean?
[01:41:57] <andypugh> PCW: Do the cards which don't use user2 mind me reading/writing it?
[01:41:59] <alex4nder> A2Sheds: sure, I buy Tetrapak when I can.
[01:42:18] <ds3> Jymmm: no, I mean... are you taking semi production jobs (say, cutting a single 4'x8' sheet at a time
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[01:43:01] <Jymmm> ds3: My laser is 12" x 24", I have to score and snap by hand or buy sheets that size.
[01:43:33] <ds3> Jymmm: apparently some of the sellers will cut down a full 8'x4' to smaller rough panels for no charge
[01:43:46] <Jymmm> (or bypass the safety interlocks)
[01:43:58] <ds3> so that isn't a problem...looking for a small run cutter
[01:44:17] <Jymmm> ds3: Ah, cool.
[01:44:24] <Jymmm> ds3: Your laser is down?
[01:44:40] <ds3> Jymmm: no, I got better things to do then to feed the laser myself
[01:44:55] <Jymmm> hahaha
[01:45:12] <ds3> want to see if it sells but I don't want to invest more then 1 sheet which apparently doesn't meet mins for some cutters
[01:45:40] <Jymmm> ds3: then why don't you run one sheet on your laser as a test?
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[01:45:53] * Jymmm is confused
[01:45:53] <ds3> no, 1 sheet as in a 8'x4' sheet
[01:46:14] <ds3> that's like 8-10 hours of cutting. I have limited rapids
[01:46:33] <Jymmm> ds3: How many parts from one sheet?
[01:46:46] <Jymmm> and how thick?
[01:47:00] <ds3> maybe 20-25 sets of parts
[01:47:20] <ds3> I am testing with 0.093 but it looks like I need 0.125 stuff
[01:47:30] <Jymmm> how many parts per set?
[01:47:39] <ds3> 6
[01:48:08] <ds3> 5.. miscounted
[01:48:30] <Jymmm> so 100 pieces from full sheet
[01:48:58] <ds3> can probally get more with better nesting
[01:49:33] <Jymmm> ds3: I only have a 30W laser, so it may not be that much faster
[01:50:11] <ds3> but u have a rapid that is, well, rapid, right? I top out at about 10ipm
[01:50:37] <Jymmm> is that TEN inches per MINUTE?
[01:50:48] <ds3> yes
[01:51:07] <ds3> hence, the reason it is a slow job
[01:51:21] <andypugh> I think there are faster clock hands than that.
[01:51:29] <Jymmm> Yes, rapids on mine are much faster than that. 24" in 2s
[01:51:30] <ds3> I think so too
[01:51:57] <Jymmm> In cutting, it's much slower of course.
[01:52:08] <andypugh> Yes, any clock with a 16" dial will have a faster minute hand than your machine :-)
[01:52:22] <andypugh> Sorry, 16 _foot_ dial.
[01:52:36] <ds3> that is why I am looking to outsource the semi production work
[01:52:56] <Jymmm> maybe 7ipm when cutting 1/8", depending on what finish
[01:53:03] <Jymmm> acrylic
[01:53:24] <ds3> at max power with air assist?
[01:54:00] <Jymmm> no air assist yet, have most of the parts for it though.
[01:54:14] <ds3> ah...the air assist really helps
[01:54:41] * Jymmm is not paying $1200 for a factory blow job (air assist) and that's without compressor
[01:54:43] <ds3> I used to cut at max 1-2ipm and can't use a lot of power w/o the air assist
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[01:55:23] <Jymmm> Yeah, I know I need it. Workin on it =)
[01:55:43] <ds3> I just hope I don't kill my HF compressor :-/
[01:56:19] <Jymmm> I have a fancy vacuum pump that I picked up cheap years ago that I'll be using for it.
[01:56:31] <Jymmm> to blow, not suck that is
[01:56:33] <andypugh> The minute hand of the clock on the Palace of Westminster (often erroneously called Big Ben) moves at 17.5 IPM. :-)
[01:57:51] <ds3> andypugh: yes but aliens crash into that!
[02:00:43] <hatch789> guys I went to hook my 7i43 board up to my computer running EMC2 this evening. I looked for instructions, directions or something but there really is nothing other than the manual to download
[02:01:10] <hatch789> is there something I'm missing to help guide me through the steps of my first-time connection of the board to my computer?
[02:02:50] <A2Sheds> http://imagebin.org/178715 I just found this in a box!
[02:03:47] <A2Sheds> http://imagebin.org/178716 whats this taper called again?
[02:04:33] <andypugh> hatch789: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[02:05:34] <andypugh> A2 30 INT or CAT30 or maybe NMTB30. BT30 is the same taper but different end
[02:05:51] <andypugh> Or it might be 40 or 50 size, hard to tell from a photo
[02:06:09] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Dunno, but that's one heck of an endmill on the right of that latter pic.
[02:06:10] <A2Sheds> that carbide endmill is 1"
[02:06:17] <andypugh> A2Sheds: http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
[02:07:35] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I'm almost done building that custom little distro, btw. Keep an eye for those 2.6.38 patches, I might bug you for them pretty soon.
[02:07:41] <andypugh> I wold say NMTB30 then. But INT and CAT will also fit.
[02:08:10] <hatch789> andypugh: is the hostmot2 driver included with emc2? or is that something I need to now install separately though "synaptic" or a package manager?
[02:08:38] <andypugh> It should be there.
[02:08:42] <A2Sheds> the guy I picked up a Cincinnati mill from put them in a box
[02:09:10] <andypugh> hatch789: Just type pncconf at the command line...
[02:09:37] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_pncconf.html
[02:10:10] <hatch789> hmmm how on earth did I miss this information? I was looking all over trying to figure out how/where to start
[02:10:38] <Jymmm> hatch789: Um, what planet are you on at the moment?
[02:10:45] <A2Sheds> http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/DT_Collet.html the Cincinnati uses double taper
[02:10:48] <andypugh> So did I, about 2 years ago :-)
[02:11:00] <hatch789> I have done the config wizard before
[02:11:41] <hatch789> but there was no documentation that I could find for the mesa boards that I purchased so I was struggling to figure out just how to interface them properly
[02:12:08] <Jymmm> hatch789: I'm just messin with ya
[02:12:35] <hatch789> it's OK. I just feel like a fool because I was looking so hard for the information to get it up and running
[02:12:53] <Jymmm> hatch789: been there, done that =)
[02:13:45] <andypugh> hatch789: Any questions, I am normally here, and I have written some of the drivers.
[02:14:02] <hatch789> so do I want to start just connecting my 7i43 board first? or do I want to connect my 7i43 up with the 7i42 and 7i49 boards both already attached?
[02:14:03] <andypugh> But now, i just noticed it is 3am and I have an 8am meeting...
[02:14:36] <andypugh> hatch789: It probably doesn't matter, but I would connect them all with the PC off.
[02:15:06] <hatch789> ok
[02:15:19] <andypugh> And make sure you ahve the firmware, have a look in /lib/firmware/hm2/7i43/
[02:15:34] <A2Sheds> NMBT40, that endmill is a 1.25"
[02:15:39] <hatch789> how do I flash the firmware?
[02:15:58] <andypugh> The driver does it. Just let pncconf handle that.
[02:16:05] <hatch789> ok
[02:16:24] <andypugh> You actually download the firmware on every startup.
[02:16:42] <hatch789> download it from my pc to the 7i43 card you mean
[02:16:52] <andypugh> Ah, sorry, yes.
[02:17:00] <hatch789> yeah
[02:17:10] <hatch789> where do I get the updated firmware to put on the pc?
[02:17:13] <Jymmm> hatch789: dont worry about that, it'll be taken care of for you.
[02:17:15] <hatch789> from the mesa site?
[02:17:22] <andypugh> To get the firmware, if you don't have it, sudo apt-get install emc2-firmware-all
[02:17:30] <hatch789> ok
[02:17:34] <hatch789> I probably already have that
[02:17:47] <hatch789> I'll check the lib directory ...if it's there I'm fine I assume
[02:17:52] <andypugh> Right, I need to sleep.
[02:17:56] <hatch789> ok thanks
[02:18:04] <andypugh> PCW knows a fair bit about Mesa cards :-)
[02:18:06] <Jymmm> hatch789: It's not "firmware", as much as software is loaded to the mes board every time you turn on the power at the pc
[02:18:14] <Jymmm> s/mes/mesa/
[02:18:44] <hatch789> right
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[02:19:31] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: he posted them at the RTAI magma cvs, will find the link
[02:21:48] <A2Sheds> http://cvs.gna.org/cvsweb/magma/base/arch/x86/patches/hal-linux-
[02:22:05] <A2Sheds> he didn't upload the configs yet
[02:25:47] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: http://code.google.com/p/neo-technical/w/list it will be there soon
[02:26:17] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Okay. I'll get the thing booting first anyway.
[02:26:34] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Should I aim for 2.6.38 right away?
[02:27:56] <A2Sheds> 2.6.38 will take lots of work
[02:28:37] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Oh, I must have misunderstood you earlier then. I thought you had 2.6.38 RTAI working.
[02:29:00] <FinboySlick> That's when SMI changed quite a bit (halfway through 2.6.38)
[02:29:21] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: sorry for the confusion
[02:29:54] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: So, what's on Magma is pretty much what I should go for? 2.6.37 and 2.6.35?
[02:31:50] <A2Sheds> just a minute, memleak has all the answers, logging in a bit
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[02:34:37] <memleak> FinboySlick, Hi, If you are interested in RTAI support for future kernel releases: https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2011-August/024688.html
[02:35:45] <FinboySlick> memleak: So 2.6.35 if I don't want to risk things exploding.
[02:37:20] <memleak> RTAI 3.8 was released on February 2010, 3.7.1 was in June 2009. 3.7 on April 2009, RTAI 3.9 will have support for newer kernel releases however stability... I'm not sure. Kernel support for 3.0* is going to be a lot of work, but mante (the guy who writes all the kernel patches) is most likely going to skip quite a few kernel releases and jump to 3.0.
[02:37:35] <A2Sheds> 2.6.35 is working fine here
[02:38:38] <FinboySlick> memleak: That's fine by me, I can wiggle 2.6.35 in this without much work.
[02:38:46] <memleak> support for 2.6.38 seems a bit useless for the RTAI since its out-of-date and would require lots of work, as 3.0* would.
[02:39:34] <memleak> with the 2.8 IPIPE patch 04 revision (2.8-04) should be fine and I have tried that exact patch out and works fine.
[02:39:36] <FinboySlick> memleak: Yeah. I spent a few hours figuring out the differences between it and the 2.6.37 patch and figured it wouldn't be worth my time either.
[02:40:36] <memleak> I personally have not tested the .37 RTAI patch, but from the observation that its a brand new IPIPE release means stability and reliability might be an issue.
[02:42:03] <memleak> IPIPE -> Interrupt Pipeline
[02:43:58] <memleak> 2.6.35 supports most modern hardware and .9 is a relatively stable release as a kernel, and for RTAI.
[02:45:18] <memleak> If you need me to make you a config, you can send me lspci output and dmesg from a full-blown kernel from ubuntu, fedora, or debian, and I can make one quite trimmed down for your system, with using only the critical parts of your base system and for optimized RTAI performance.
[02:46:39] <memleak> A bit experience with generating configs not just for kernels, but for making RTAI kernels can be quite a hassle for those who haven't done it a lot. Kconfig words things a bit odd, and the structure of things is a bit messy. i.e. scsi support is needed for USB storage, etc..
[02:48:03] <FinboySlick> memleak: I'll send you my base config to peruse once I get it going. This is a tiny box so it'll probably be fairly minimal already.
[02:48:59] <A2Sheds> I don't have any Geode boards around anymore
[02:49:38] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: This specific ALIX is nice, it has lots and lots of GPIO plus a parallel port.
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[02:49:54] <FinboySlick> And ready-made headers for both.
[02:50:35] <memleak> My English gets messy at times.. Pardon my above response.
[02:51:12] <FinboySlick> memleak: No excuse necessary. If anything, my reply was a tad inconsiderate. What's your native language?
[02:51:58] <memleak> It's English actually, however surprisingly I come across as a foreigner on IRC.
[02:52:51] <memleak> I still need some practice :P
[02:53:34] <FinboySlick> memleak: Heh, okay. I wondered because I thought it was fine. And I also figured you might be german because it seems all the gurus are these days.
[02:54:24] <A2Sheds> Cyrix, National Semi then finally AMD before it died, I wish they had pushed it earlier into the space VIA C7 and Intel Atom finally did
[02:57:57] <memleak> Hahaha, I take that as a compliment. I rather come across as anything other than the American that I am. We're looked down upon folks from other places nowadays, sadly.
[02:58:55] <FinboySlick> memleak: I'm an exception to the rule it seems. I'm very fond of the american people, unlike most people here in Quebec.
[02:59:23] <FinboySlick> You guys just go back to obeying your constitution and I'm moving south.
[03:02:11] <A2Sheds> huh, and they are making it more difficult to emigrate north
[03:02:24] <A2Sheds> is the grass always greener?
[03:03:31] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Depends, if you want to live off the state and let it run your life, you're better off here.
[03:04:05] <FinboySlick> At least, until we run out of natural resources to whore out to the rest of the world so we can afford that.
[03:04:07] <A2Sheds> heh, down here they are forcing people into it
[03:04:58] <A2Sheds> running your life, but without the security net
[03:05:09] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yeah, but at least you have something to return to, you can actually fix it. Canada still belongs to the Queen.
[03:05:33] <FinboySlick> Sometimes more so than England it seems.
[03:07:01] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: This said, yeah... The grass is definitely greener here in the meantime ;)
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[03:09:38] <A2Sheds> http://pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=4 ALIX boards are close to http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1&IsNodeId=1&Description=amd%20fusion&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20 Fusion prices now
[03:10:36] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Hehe, finish that coreboot thing and I'll switch ;)
[03:10:56] <A2Sheds> I'd like to see a small Fusion board with a 12V power supply vs ATX
[03:11:23] <A2Sheds> it's fixed
[03:11:26] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: you can probably just pop in one of those tiny tiny pico-psu
[03:12:04] <A2Sheds> http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=E350M1 is working now, the NIC issue was solved
[03:12:16] <Tom_itx> picopsu works good
[03:12:47] <Tom_itx> i've had one on this running 24/7 for quite a while
[03:13:15] <Tom_itx> however it's so old emc won't load on it
[03:13:43] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Got latency/jitter figures?
[03:14:25] <Tom_itx> the atom 525 is a bit cheaper at ~75
[03:14:25] <A2Sheds> http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.417/.f picopsu, now if an OEM would build it onboard so it would only add a few $$ vs $40
[03:14:48] <Tom_itx> but then you still need a 12v brick to run it
[03:15:11] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: I didn't pick one up yet, was on the coreboot ML a week or so ago
[03:15:48] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Hehe, I'll let you put your money where your mouth is first then. My ALIX is free.
[03:15:55] <A2Sheds> I'll ask somebody to test it
[03:16:39] <A2Sheds> at least i have docs for Fusion
[03:17:46] <pcw_home> Yeah but no realtime I/O (at least on the asrock)
[03:17:48] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yeah. Only thing that annoys me about it is that Radeon are often so flakey under linux.
[03:18:43] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: didn't you guys invent ATI? :p
[03:19:04] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I'd prefer if you mention Matrox instead.
[03:19:14] <FinboySlick> The eternal underdog.
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[03:19:36] <FinboySlick> Always three steps ahead but no adoption.
[03:20:07] <A2Sheds> pcw_home: yeah, i want a Fusion board with PCIe from the cpu, not the PCI hub
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[03:21:24] <pcw_home> Also the likelyhood that a X16 slot can be used 1 is about 1/1000 (even though its supposed to work according to PCIE spec)
[03:21:34] <pcw_home> used as 1X
[03:22:27] <A2Sheds> somebody asked us to design one with a FPGA onboard tied to the PCIe on the cpu
[03:22:42] <A2Sheds> they haven't come up with the $$$ yet
[03:23:00] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Get a 16x PICe parallel port!
[03:23:11] <FinboySlick> For some serious printing.
[03:23:53] <pcw_home> lets see 8 GB/s full duplex
[03:24:33] <pcw_home> (gen2) so thats some fast printing
[03:25:10] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Always reminds me of that chain printer we used for report cards back in college.
[03:25:26] <FinboySlick> One character per chain link, one hammer per character on the page.
[03:25:34] <FinboySlick> It was deafening.
[03:27:07] <pcw_home> Yeah I remember those (chain and drum printers) plus printronix with a dot per char position
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[03:28:15] <pcw_home> I still have a giant Versatec printer I need to get rid of (probably 800 Lbs)
[03:28:58] <A2Sheds> electrostatic?
[03:36:22] <pcw_home> Yeah E size color electrostatic
[03:42:33] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: In your opinion: TREE_RCU or TINY_RCU ?
[03:44:01] <FinboySlick> I'm !SMP so it might help latency to go Tiny, just not sure if it'll harm RTAI.
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[04:47:39] <FinboySlick> Well, time for sleep. Boot tomorrow :)
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[05:53:51] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:02:27] <Loetmichel> <- Winupdate-reboot
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[12:26:23] <awallin_> anyone getting new ubuntu updates automatically already? 11.10 should be out today?
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[12:41:39] <AofA> How complicated is it to install emc2 on lubuntu?
[12:58:59] <cradek> what's lubuntu?
[12:59:30] <cradek> oh, I asked google
[12:59:40] <cradek> I haven't heard anyone report.
[13:00:22] <cradek> oh - it uses a different window manager/desktop environment.
[13:00:27] <AofA> exactly
[13:00:31] <cradek> that makes my answer the same as I gave yesterday
[13:00:33] <psha[work]> lxde?
[13:00:50] <AofA> get more memmory?
[13:01:08] <psha[work]> no difference really - one of my setups is happily running with dwm
[13:02:32] <AofA> thank you, maybe I will be able to work around my hardware limitis this way
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[13:07:54] <cradek> emc doesn't care about the window manager or desktop environment
[13:08:11] <cradek> however if you don't have an lapic you probably will not be able to run the linuxcnc realtime kernel for lucid
[13:08:29] <cradek> so then you are faced with recompiling rtai, linux kernel, and emc
[13:08:47] <cradek> this is the same answer as yesterday and xubuntu/lubuntu/qubuntu does not change it
[13:09:21] <cradek> the best chance of you having success is to try the linuxcnc cd based on ubuntu 8, and if it can't install, get more ram so it can
[13:10:24] <AofA> cradek: the main reason I am pestering you with questions is because I don't quite understand all the terms you are using, even though I am trying pretty hard.
[13:10:54] <cradek> I understand
[13:11:09] <cradek> that's why I'm trying to give you an answer that will work for you, because I do understand the issues
[13:11:24] <cradek> I don't mean to cause offense
[13:11:54] <AofA> I tried 8.04 like you suggested, and it is still sending me to a install error screen. Haven'tbeen able to find more memory yet, so I was hoping to work around it some way.
[13:12:01] <AofA> none taken, you have been very helpful
[13:12:20] <cradek> ah I see
[13:12:25] <cradek> memory can be hard to find for very old machines
[13:12:37] <cradek> where in the world are you?
[13:12:42] <cradek> brb, breakfast break
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[13:15:14] <Valen> AofA: what ram do you need?
[13:18:17] <AofA> I am in Israel, it is currently a holiday so no stores for a few days.
[13:19:35] <AofA> and I have read reports of people successfuly instaling ubuntu on 512 machines. I think I might have a ntfs partition problem, not neccessarily a memory problem
[13:21:27] <Valen> 512 should be sufficent
[13:21:35] <Valen> also do you have like a usb disk?
[13:22:05] <Valen> its a dirty dirty hack but you could create a temporary swap file on the usb ;->
[13:23:48] <Valen> can you get to the desktop AofA?
[13:46:37] <cradek> I think it's true that if you have an existing swap partition and patience, you can install with a very small amount of memory
[13:47:06] <cradek> Valen: my understanding is that he currently has 256 MB of RAM, not 512
[13:47:22] <cradek> Valen: he hopes to be able to find RAM to get up to 512 MB
[13:47:39] <Valen> 256 is pretty low
[13:47:55] <cradek> yes without swap I am not surprised the live boot can't come up
[13:48:02] <Valen> will ubuntu use a swap partition without asking?
[13:48:15] <cradek> yes I think so, if it's marked as linux swap
[13:48:44] <Valen> i could just see things like where you have a suspended session in it things could go badly
[13:48:51] <Valen> i guess somebody has worked it out
[13:49:11] <cradek> oh does hibernate sometimes use the swap partition? If so I agree that would be bad.
[13:49:21] <Valen> yeah it writes ram out to swap
[13:49:43] <Valen> windows creates a hibernate file for the purpose
[13:50:00] <cradek> but installing while hibernated seems like a bad idea anyway
[13:50:13] <Valen> yeah but running a livecd?
[13:50:17] <Valen> well i could be wrong, but i know you cant suspend/hibernate without swap
[13:50:33] <cradek> you are right about expecting to be able to run a livecd
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[13:51:00] <cradek> maybe hibernate should (does?) rewrite the partition type?
[13:51:13] <cradek> then change it back to swap after resuming
[13:51:22] <Valen> that would be sensible
[13:51:46] <Valen> or do some other such to make anything that tries to use it as swap barf
[13:52:04] <Valen> probably safer than changing partition types
[13:52:24] <Valen> anyway way past my bed time
[13:52:50] <Valen> if he has another nix machine, gparted a usb stick into swap stick that in and boot
[13:52:53] <Valen> nothing to loose
[13:53:11] <Valen> also do a manual partition and make a nice big swap part, 2x ram just wouldn't do lol
[13:53:40] <skunkworks> logger[mah]
[13:53:40] <logger[mah]> skunkworks: Log stored at http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc/2011-10-13.html
[13:54:47] <cradek> Valen: very early hpux machines (68k) would swap to tape during install. your scheme reminds me of that.
[13:55:41] <Valen> swapping to tape ouch!
[13:55:57] <cradek> of course they'd boot from tape too (the install media was tape)
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[14:15:23] <TekniQue> haha
[14:15:30] <TekniQue> I installed NetBSD on a 68k mac once
[14:15:34] <TekniQue> using a ZIP drive
[14:15:43] <TekniQue> and swapping on the ZIP drive as well
[14:21:18] <jdhNC> I installed NetBSD on a vaxstation 2000, no disk at all, swapped over ethernet
[14:22:47] <psha[work]> Valen: you can hibernate to file
[14:22:53] <psha[work]> at least uswsusp supported that
[14:23:15] <TekniQue> jdhNC: I have installed it on a MicroVAX
[14:23:20] <TekniQue> but I did have a hard drive
[14:24:04] <jdhNC> I'm not quite sure, but I think that devolved in to an "I'm lamer than you are" thing :)
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[14:25:49] <TekniQue> haha
[14:26:01] <TekniQue> well I had a lot of time on my hands when I was a teenager
[14:27:19] <jdhNC> I was 30
[14:27:29] <jdhNC> so... I win, at losing.
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[15:04:25] <grommit> Why would I get realtime errors when setting the servo thread down to, say, 500,000 assuming I have a pc with very low latency?
[15:09:22] <skunkworks> do you have classic ladder running?
[15:09:27] <grommit> no
[15:09:35] <skunkworks> hmmm
[15:09:40] <grommit> I am also not running a base thread
[15:09:58] <cradek> pastebin the report in dmesg
[15:11:13] <skunkworks> grommit: cought your thread on cnczone.
[15:11:27] <skunkworks> caught
[15:13:13] <grommit> http://pastebin.com/CnkUdpzU
[15:13:42] <grommit> skunkworks: yeah, we are at a loss as to what is going on. We have really beat our heads against the wall
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[15:14:09] <cradek> hmm, "on task 1" is not our message from the motion controller, it's rtai reporting an overrun
[15:15:09] <grommit> The latency test shows less then 10,000 for max jitter. I can set the servo thread to 750,000 but if I set it to 500000 or less I get that. I don't know about in between....
[15:15:20] <cradek> do you have complicated hal or kins?
[15:15:26] <grommit> gantrykins
[15:15:28] <cradek> it might mean your servo thread sometimes runs too long
[15:15:45] <grommit> It happens immediately upon starting axis
[15:15:59] <cradek> I don't think this "on task 1" message results from jitter
[15:16:36] <grommit> I haven't run it for a long time after getting the message. Is there a way to tell if it is having problems (as opposed to this being a bug)?
[15:16:46] <cradek> [ 6707.081051] 163471: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay: check dmesg for details.
[15:16:55] <cradek> although earlier, you got the other message too
[15:17:02] <grommit> hm
[15:17:24] <cradek> adjacent calls to motion were 1956070 and 1222270 apart, quite a difference percentagewise
[15:17:42] <cradek> I guess you can't run it that fast.
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[15:18:16] <cradek> isn't this a step/dir machine? why do you need a faster than default servo thread?
[15:18:20] <grommit> It hurts when I do that. ....then don't do that
[15:18:48] <cradek> #
[15:18:48] <cradek> [ 6707.079301] hm2_7i43.0: EPP timeout on data cycle of read(addr=0x2100, size=16)
[15:18:48] <cradek> #
[15:18:49] <cradek> [ 6707.079309] hm2/hm2_7i43.0: TRAM read error! (addr=0x2100, size=16, iter=163470)
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[15:18:57] <cradek> oh look what happened 0.002 seconds earlier
[15:18:58] <grommit> Yes, step/dir. I don't need it faster, I was just reaching for straws to solve the problem we are seeing.
[15:19:14] <cradek> you have a communication problem (timeout)
[15:19:20] <cradek> check your parallel cabling
[15:19:26] <grommit> !
[15:19:30] <grommit> interesting
[15:19:38] <grommit> I will build a new cable
[15:19:42] <cradek> that might be the base problem
[15:20:03] * grommit goes off to build yet another cable
[15:20:03] <cradek> can you get a real IEEE 1284 EPP cable
[15:20:13] <grommit> from?
[15:20:30] <cradek> ummm online supplier? yesterday pcw said mesa sells them too
[15:20:47] <grommit> probably shielded even, which mine isn't....
[15:21:00] <cradek> I think mesa sells cables that they have actually tested
[15:21:02] <cradek> brb
[15:21:09] <grommit> imagine that
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[15:33:38] <cradek> I think the correct cable has every pair twisted and shielded, and then an overall shield on top of it
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[15:33:56] <grommit> Well, I was using a parallel cable that had 25 wires (in a 26 pin header). Pin 26 could be important....:-)
[15:34:18] <grommit> Working on building a new one (not twisted, not shielded) but at least the right number of wires/pins
[15:34:46] <cradek> a flat ribbon with the resulting alternating grounds is maybe the next best option?
[15:35:00] <cradek> how long does your cable need to be?
[15:35:09] <grommit> only about 14"
[15:35:23] <cradek> before that EPP timeout your latencies look very good (1666520, 1668780, 1666870)
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[15:36:31] <cradek> later something has gone all wrong: 899960, 304020, 299400, 295690, and 302510
[15:36:44] <grommit> I hope it is this cable....
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[15:37:25] <grommit> It could explain a bunch of oddities...
[15:39:08] <grommit> hmm, looking at my motherboard, pin 26 is a key, not connected. Bummer. Anyway, making a new cable...
[15:39:29] <cradek> can you try flat ribbon and IDC?
[15:39:38] <grommit> Yes, that is what I am using
[15:39:59] <cradek> maybe even better if you can find some of the twisty ribbon?
[15:40:01] <grommit> That is what is there, though it was kind of stretched tight
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[15:43:43] <skunkworks> can you plug the mesa card direclty into the printer port? (I don't know what it looks like)
[15:45:23] <grommit> No, 7i43 has an IDC header
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[15:48:42] <grommit> Unfortunately no luck with new cable.
[15:49:04] <grommit> I will look into getting a STP cable, but....
[15:50:30] <grommit> I keep seeing the TRAM read error message in dmesg output
[15:52:11] <skunkworks> if you change the servo period back to 1khz- does it go away?
[15:53:35] <grommit> I am going to reboot the system and try again....
[15:54:38] <grommit> EMC24a2ms
[15:55:01] <grommit> oops, nothing like typing on the wrong keyboard...
[15:58:43] <grommit> Yes, I don't get those errors with servo period set to 1,000,000.
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[16:01:59] <IchGucksLive> Hi all
[16:02:46] <IchGucksLive> do i need to del the limits of the angular axis if i make wrapped_rotary=1 0-360
[16:03:17] <IchGucksLive> for 0-360 degre use only
[16:04:16] <IchGucksLive> and question to cradek maybe if the Caxis is on 350deg and needs to go to 5 dous it rotate the shortest way ?
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[16:11:41] <IchGucksLive> jthornton: ?
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[16:40:45] <Danimal_garage> cradek: i just bumped the accel up on the hnc from 20 to 40
[16:41:00] <Danimal_garage> seems to work fine
[16:42:50] <Danimal_garage> much past that it starts getting following errors
[16:43:18] <Danimal_garage> cant raise the velocity past 200ipm though, it ferrors right away
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[17:01:09] <cnc-9-Achsen> good evening
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[17:13:12] <cnc-9-Achsen> JT-Shop: ?
[17:14:00] <cnc-9-Achsen> some of you have seen the new librecad release ?
[17:15:13] <A2Sheds> how large a face mill can a Bridgeport handle for aluminum? http://imagebin.org/178715 is probably asking too much
[17:16:44] <archivist> A2Sheds, depends! depth of cut and which bridgeport model
[17:19:12] <A2Sheds> archivist: 1st gen, 1.5hp?
[17:19:39] <A2Sheds> just for shallow cuts, cleanup, squaring, maybe I should just try it
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[17:20:05] <archivist> Ist gen cnc Brigeport?
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[17:24:52] <A2Sheds> J head and only 1hp, circa 1958
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[17:25:03] <A2Sheds> I forgot how old this one was
[17:26:30] <Danimal_garage> i'd maybe go 3" max.
[17:27:47] <Danimal_garage> i'd be more concerned about the inserts and geometry of that cutter, it's going to have a ton of tool pressure, i can't imagine it's going to cut very well on a loose little BP.
[17:28:38] <A2Sheds> trying to see what I can use from a box of NMTB 40 tooling that came with a mill
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[17:29:23] <Danimal_garage> i'd use something with more of a positive rake
[17:32:12] <Danimal_garage> probably better off with a 3/4" endmill than that thing
[17:32:31] <A2Sheds> more stuff for ebay
[17:39:12] <Danimal_garage> try it first, but just saying i never really had much luck with cutters like that on a BP.
[17:39:29] <Danimal_garage> your BP is a 40 taper?
[17:39:47] <Danimal_garage> got any holders you want to sell?
[17:40:28] <A2Sheds> I have bunch of 40 taper
[17:40:47] <Danimal_garage> i need some 1/8" nmbt holders
[17:41:06] <A2Sheds> http://imagebin.org/178716
[17:41:53] <Danimal_garage> ah, nothing that small, huh
[17:42:04] <Danimal_garage> that's an interesting rougher endmill
[17:45:24] <A2Sheds> 2" fly cutter in the box as well!
[17:48:31] <Danimal_garage> my shizuoka uses nmbt40 holders
[17:48:36] <A2Sheds> old machinist, he had a lathe with accessories still in the original packages from the 50's
[17:48:48] <Danimal_garage> cool
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[17:52:57] <A2Sheds> http://industrialmachineinc.com/Machines/Warner%20Swasey.JPG Warner & Swasey #4
[17:54:17] <A2Sheds> only $500, but what am I going to do with it?
[17:54:49] <JT-Shop> cnc-9-Achsen: yes?
[17:55:23] * JT-Shop found out how much a new tire for the backhoe costs this morning :/
[17:55:38] <Danimal_garage> how many thousands?
[17:59:36] <JT-Shop> $600
[17:59:55] <JT-Shop> I was mentally prepared for $750
[18:00:19] <Danimal_garage> that's like 1.5 tires for the mustang
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[18:03:54] <|n0b0dy|> a2 you in houston?
[18:04:34] <syyl> thats like 10 wheels for my car O
[18:04:35] <syyl> Oo
[18:04:52] <|n0b0dy|> yea but your car can't dig a ditch
[18:05:01] <|n0b0dy|> =)
[18:05:07] <syyl> i could mount a backhoe to it...
[18:05:08] <syyl> ;)
[18:05:30] <|n0b0dy|> pop the trunk and out comes the ctrls & backhoe
[18:06:03] <Danimal_garage> maybe i'll do that to my saturn
[18:06:38] <syyl> would look interesting on my car...
[18:07:54] <|n0b0dy|> A2Sheds, you got prices for those mills too?
[18:09:42] <cnc-9-Achsen> ok i modified now my new 3Axis wirercut but have trouble with the basics in the hal
[18:09:55] <cnc-9-Achsen> i use XYB
[18:10:10] <cnc-9-Achsen> i started with the 4 axis stepper wizard
[18:10:35] <cnc-9-Achsen> this gives me stepgen 0-3
[18:11:08] <cnc-9-Achsen> B axis is AXIS_4
[18:11:58] <cnc-9-Achsen> so now as it generaded only 4axis there is only stepgen.3. available
[18:13:19] <cnc-9-Achsen> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/492112/ Here is the ini
[18:13:45] <cnc-9-Achsen> oh no thats the hal
[18:14:47] <cnc-9-Achsen> Question loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0,0 Does this give me the stepgen numbers 0-3
[18:14:56] <JT-Shop> yes
[18:15:32] <cnc-9-Achsen> oh so if i add there a ,0 i have the stepgen.4.
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[18:16:36] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_rtcomps.html#sec:Stepgen
[18:19:14] <A2Sheds> |n0b0dy| which one or ones?
[18:20:34] <cnc-9-Achsen> JT-Shop: worked
[18:21:26] <cnc-9-Achsen> there is no word about if it is required to generade as mutch stepgens as axis are axis+1number
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[18:21:52] <cnc-9-Achsen> or if i use only 3 out of 8
[18:22:09] <cnc-9-Achsen> XYZABCUVW
[18:22:32] <cnc-9-Achsen> 9-> Axis=8 0-8
[18:23:15] <JT-Shop> only make the stepgens you need for real axis
[18:23:17] <cnc-9-Achsen> is it requierd that the stepgen NUMBER need to Be the SAME as in AXIS_Number
[18:23:52] <cnc-9-Achsen> ok
[18:24:33] <cnc-9-Achsen> so my Real B Axis the 3rd Real axis gets stepgen 2
[18:25:05] <JT-Shop> you can have any stepgen drive any axis
[18:26:46] <cnc-9-Achsen> this neds to be wrote down somewhere
[18:27:55] <cnc-9-Achsen> loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0
[18:27:55] <cnc-9-Achsen> .....
[18:27:55] <cnc-9-Achsen> setp stepgen.2.position-scale [AXIS_4]SCALE
[18:27:55] <cnc-9-Achsen> setp stepgen.2.steplen 1
[18:27:56] <cnc-9-Achsen> setp stepgen.2.stepspace 0
[18:27:57] <cnc-9-Achsen> setp stepgen.2.dirhold 40000
[18:27:58] <cnc-9-Achsen> setp stepgen.2.dirsetup 40000
[18:28:00] <cnc-9-Achsen> setp stepgen.2.maxaccel [AXIS_4]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
[18:28:02] <cnc-9-Achsen> net bpos-cmd axis.4.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.2.position-cmd
[18:28:03] <cnc-9-Achsen> net bpos-fb stepgen.2.position-fb => axis.4.motor-pos-fb
[18:28:05] <cnc-9-Achsen> net bstep <= stepgen.2.step
[18:28:07] <cnc-9-Achsen> net bdir <= stepgen.2.dir
[18:28:09] <cnc-9-Achsen> net benable axis.4.amp-enable-out => stepgen.2.enable
[18:28:10] <cnc-9-Achsen> I now go with this
[18:28:20] <Connor> dude, use pastbin
[18:28:34] <Connor> :)
[18:28:40] <cnc-9-Achsen> for a XYB Real axis Mashine
[18:28:46] <cnc-9-Achsen> Connor: sorry
[18:28:56] <Connor> Makes it easier on everyone.
[18:29:01] <Connor> doesn't clog up the channel.
[18:29:18] <anonimasu> Does the tp work well with witecutting, how do you handle backing off on spark?
[18:29:18] <cnc-9-Achsen> agree
[18:29:30] <anonimasu> or are you talking about hot wire cutting for foram?
[18:29:59] <cnc-9-Achsen> anonimasu: hot wire
[18:30:14] <skunkworks> anonimasu: you can slow down/stop but not back up. (although I think Tom had done some trickery in hal to back up...)
[18:30:25] <cnc-9-Achsen> ost 90% only 3 axis in use no need to go for XYBUV
[18:31:19] <anonimasu> still too bad...
[18:32:55] <cnc-9-Achsen> i do hotwire with a HAAS VF2 for no 2Years so i desidet om increasing part numbers to build a own mashine
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[18:35:16] <cnc-9-Achsen> a 2m bar with the wire moune to the Spindle on Z Axis is not the perfect think as it blocks a intirer mill
[18:36:14] <cnc-9-Achsen> ok by for me today Thanks for all your help
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[18:50:59] <JT-Shop> the hole in the driveway from the tire blow out http://imagebin.org/178845
[18:51:33] <JT-Shop> it was solid chat covered and smooth before
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[19:04:20] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: What happened? Forgot the compressor on it?
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[19:10:00] <JT-Shop> it had a small cut and it suddenly got much bigger
[19:10:14] <JT-Shop> sounded like a .410 going off
[19:10:46] <JT-Shop> I was driving at the time
[19:18:28] <skunkworks> yiked
[19:18:31] <skunkworks> yikes
[19:24:12] <JT-Shop> it blew rocks 30'
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[19:49:05] <tom3p> JT-Shop, can you help with this link? http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/id,4899/catid,38/func,fb_pdf/lang,german/ ( google lists it for 'xyuv conic')
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[19:51:49] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah, blame it on a TIRE "blowout" for holes in the driveway (you knew you just had one too many servings of beans last night, admit it!)
[19:53:57] <Jymmm> Dumb question... If I was to mess around with making a knife from a bastard file, I knew I have to soften first, but how to you hardener it afterwards? heat it up and dunk in water/oil ?
[19:54:27] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Kid of like this? http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/A+Walk+In+The+Woods/
[19:54:33] <cradek> yes, and maybe then temper with an oven bake
[19:55:09] <Jymmm> cradek: Do I have to worry about scaling in any part of this process?
[19:56:04] <Jymmm> cradek: how long in the oven?
[19:56:20] <cradek> at least several hours
[19:56:29] <cradek> yes it'll scale.
[19:56:45] <archivist> temper to the correct colour
[19:56:50] <Jymmm> cradek: What temp (on avg)?
[19:57:27] <cradek> you could either do a lot of reading and try to get it right in one try, or just have at it.
[19:57:36] <Jymmm> low (300f)? high (500F)?
[19:57:52] <cradek> I bet archivist knows steel better than I do.
[19:57:59] <archivist> blue probably same as a spring
[19:58:07] <Jymmm> cradek: I plan on reading, just trying to get an overall idea before I get into the details.
[19:58:26] <archivist> its not time it is temperature
[19:58:38] <archivist> although time matters :)
[19:58:43] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Uh, um, er, huh?
[19:59:02] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I was referring to the blowout, not the termpering ;)
[19:59:11] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: oh, heh =)
[19:59:35] * FinboySlick is a big fan of Weebls.
[19:59:55] <Jymmm> Any recommended reading?
[20:00:44] <archivist> google, hardening and tempering
[20:00:58] <Jymmm> ok, will do. thanks!
[20:02:35] <JT-Shop> tom3p: ?
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[20:04:27] <tom3p> JT-Shop, i thin i found it. Viesturs wanted XYUV arcs broken into line segements. I thought i had done similar in APT360. but the kunena link got me to this http://code.google.com/p/emc2hotwinch/
[20:05:10] <tom3p> which looks like xyuv kins for emc2 ( any Deutche speaking emc fans might help him out by reading thru it )
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[20:12:16] <JT-Shop> anyone want a giant flower pot... looks kinda like a backhoe tire :)
[20:13:14] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: good idea, i have quite a few old tires lol
[20:14:23] <JT-Shop> want another one?
[20:14:37] <JT-Shop> it's really big and nice with a built in drain hole
[20:16:18] <Danimal_garage> ha
[20:16:27] <Danimal_garage> sure, free shipping?
[20:17:35] <Danimal_garage> this guy who bought my mustang is pissing me off, he's supposed to come pick up all the parts i had for it. this is the second time he flaked on me, and it's been a month. They're just sitting in my hallway now.
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[20:18:02] <Danimal_garage> i think i'm going to just put them on craigslist and tell him he's SOL
[20:20:35] <JT-Shop> yep, you snooze you lose
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[20:21:37] <Tom_itx> logger[psha]
[20:22:59] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, get it white hot then pee on it
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[20:34:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Urea Steam, nice!
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[20:50:09] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtzKr7ERmXE
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[20:51:14] <landau> hi i need to know insert a tool on emc...can you help me?
[20:52:24] <JT-Shop> can you try and explain more what your question is?
[20:54:26] <landau> ok...i opened the tool table but i don't know what mean, X,Y,Z, Front Back...etc..
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[20:55:22] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_tool_compensation.html#r1_2
[20:55:43] <JT-Shop> you have a lathe?
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[20:56:18] <landau> no
[20:56:58] <JT-Shop> front and back angle are for lathes only
[20:58:15] <landau> ok good
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[20:59:13] <landau> and X,Y,Z,A,B,C,U,V,W? what are?
[20:59:24] <JT-Shop> did you read the link?
[21:00:25] <landau> yes they are offests
[21:01:00] <Tom_itx> you may not need all of them
[21:01:48] <landau> ok...i suppose Z is important
[21:01:55] <Tom_itx> on a mill i suppose
[21:02:19] <landau> and on a profile? or pocket?
[21:04:02] <Tom_itx> in the tool table? it affects the tool length offset
[21:04:46] <landau> how to add a V shape tool?
[21:05:12] <JT-Shop> not possible
[21:05:53] <JT-Shop> your cam software will have to compensate for a V tool
[21:05:57] <Tom_itx> length, diameter etc are what you get
[21:06:27] <landau> ok but the default tool on emc is a V tool!
[21:06:39] <Tom_itx> most cam software will let you enter the lathe tool description and use it
[21:10:58] <landau> ok...it is only for a graphical view
[21:11:01] <JT-Shop> the cone is what is shown when you don't have a tool loaded
[21:11:16] <landau> yes
[21:13:25] <Danimal_garage> yawn
[21:13:30] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, when you use touchoff how does that relate to your G54 offset values?
[21:13:45] <Tom_itx> or where do you adjust for that
[21:14:28] <Tom_itx> ie i touchoff .250" above the G54 z offset
[21:14:53] <landau> many thanks!
[21:14:56] <landau> bye
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[21:17:40] <skunkworks> touchoff directly changes whatever coordinate system you have selected in the touchoff window
[21:17:45] <Nostoc> I seem to be getting random positional errors when using EMC2. I am testing a single axis, and on a MDI commanded move of 0.1" it will be off by up to 5%. I know the axis isn't the problem, because I have tested it with the same settings in Mach3 and it has been dead on to <1% error every time. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do?
[21:19:13] <Danimal_garage> stepper or servo?
[21:19:20] <Nostoc> stepper
[21:19:27] <skunkworks> either your scaling is off, stepper timing, acceleration is too high, velocity too high or you have a mechanical problem ;) (I think that is everything)
[21:19:41] <Danimal_garage> what he said
[21:19:48] <Nostoc> I do not think it is a mechanical problem, I literally have two systems sitting next to each other
[21:20:02] <Nostoc> One has mach3 installed, the other has EMC2, the mach3 one is perfect motion, the EMC2 is off by 5%
[21:20:34] <cradek> or electrical problem (like a difference in parport hardware)
[21:20:37] <skunkworks> off by 5 percent? so if you move .1 - it is off .005? then you move it another .1 and it is off .010?
[21:20:40] <Nostoc> I am literally just switching over the monitor, parallel port, mouse, keyboard, etc and comparing them ont he exact same cnc
[21:20:46] <cradek> signal timing seems is the most likely
[21:20:51] <cradek> s/is//
[21:20:57] <Nostoc> skunkworks
[21:20:59] <Nostoc> : yes
[21:21:14] <cradek> can you explain what you mean by "off 5%"
[21:21:15] <Nostoc> cradek: I used the default timings given in stepconf for g540
[21:21:28] <skunkworks> if you move back to where you started - is it back to where you started?
[21:21:42] <Nostoc> exactly what skunkworks just said, if I move 0.1 I am off by +-0.005
[21:21:53] <Nostoc> skunkworks: no it does not, but in Mach3 it does
[21:22:01] <Nostoc> thats why I think its an error in EMC2
[21:22:02] <skunkworks> then probably timing
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[21:22:23] <Nostoc> do you know where to find the timings for the G540? I used the default timings for the G540 given in stepconf
[21:22:39] <cradek> what version are you using? I have a dim memory that long ago the g540 timings might have been wrong
[21:22:48] <Nostoc> the g540 manual/guide does not list them
[21:22:50] <cradek> like two of them were reversed or something
[21:22:53] <Nostoc> what version of the g540?
[21:23:00] <cradek> no, what version of emc
[21:23:09] <cradek> help/about
[21:23:17] <Nostoc> 2.4.3
[21:23:24] <cradek> (it's asinine if they aren't in the g540 manual)
[21:23:30] <Nostoc> I did a fresh install from the 10.004 ubuntu live cd
[21:23:38] <Nostoc> thats what I said too, go figure
[21:23:38] <cradek> if you run the updates you'll get 2.4.6
[21:23:57] <Nostoc> how do you update emc2? I am relatively new to linux.
[21:24:00] <Nostoc> sudo apt-get emc?
[21:24:20] <cradek> apt-get update; apt-get upgrade
[21:24:37] <Jymmm> sudo says
[21:24:56] <Nostoc> do you think that would fix the problem? I'll do it anyways, but I am wondering if I should try and contact the g540 people before business hours are out
[21:25:16] <Nostoc> I am also using a modified ini file, to run gantrykins
[21:25:28] <Nostoc> brb
[21:26:01] <skunkworks> hmm - timing numbers don
[21:26:03] <andypugh> Can we rewind a bit? Are you saying that it moves too far but then comes back to exactly the same spot?
[21:26:11] <skunkworks> hmm - timing numbers don't seem to be on the wiki either.. that sucks
[21:26:23] <cradek> (maybe my memory about that is wrong - I can't find a relevant change)
[21:26:31] <Nostoc> andypugh, I am saying I recieve random +-5% errors
[21:26:42] <cradek> brb
[21:26:44] <Nostoc> the idea that it is a timing error seems highly probable
[21:27:27] <andypugh> Parallel port?
[21:27:32] <Nostoc> furthermore, doing a jog g0 z-.2; g0 z-.1; g0 z-.2 etc back and forth gives errors
[21:27:37] <Nostoc> random +-5% errors
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[21:27:43] <Nostoc> yes I am using a parallel port
[21:27:57] <andypugh> How about if you reduce the max speed?
[21:28:09] <JT-Shop> the G540 is the same as the G203v
[21:28:11] <Nostoc> I have tried that, the errors still exist, but seem to decrease
[21:28:11] <Danimal_garage> it's hot out today.
[21:28:26] <Nostoc> the g540 is not the same as the g203v from my understanding
[21:28:27] <andypugh> What numbers do you have for the axisaccellerations?
[21:28:33] <Nostoc> it is a collection of 4 g201s
[21:28:34] <JT-Shop> the timings are
[21:28:34] <Danimal_garage> probably step space or distance
[21:28:40] <Nostoc> unless you mean the timings are, oh alright, thanks
[21:29:10] <Nostoc> would you like me to pastebin my ini and hal?
[21:29:12] <andypugh> It might also be worth inverting the polarity of the step pulses in Stepconf.
[21:29:32] <Nostoc> somebody suggested that worked on the cnczone forums
[21:29:34] <JT-Shop> direction 200 step 2000 step space 2000
[21:29:38] <JT-Shop> direction setup 200
[21:29:55] <Nostoc> I would like to know why inverting the polarity of the pulses would work though
[21:30:55] <JT-Shop> if you used 2000 for step and 1000 for step space you might have it backwards that is why I always use 2000 for both
[21:30:59] <Nostoc> JT-shop: is that in nanoseconds? for some reason my stepspace is 0, dirhold is 15200, dirsetup is 15200
[21:31:03] <andypugh> Yes, it all depends on how the input stage of the drive is configured. Parallel ports output a much "stronger" 0V than they do 5V, so it is common to supply 5V to one side of an opto-isolator, then you get current flow (on) when the p-port is low, and no current when it is high.
[21:31:04] <Nostoc> in the hal file
[21:31:27] <Nostoc> andypugh: understood, I remember reading about that in the mach3 manual
[21:31:32] <JT-Shop> yes nanoseconds
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[21:31:57] <Nostoc> so change setp stepgen.2.stepspace 0 to setp stepgen.2.stepspace 200 in the hal file?
[21:32:18] <Nostoc> setp stepgen.2.dirhold 15200 to setp stepgen.2.dirhold 2000 etc?
[21:32:42] <andypugh> No. 0 in that setting indicates to the driver that you are using "reset" (so you get one pulse ever cycle, nit evey 2 cycles)
[21:33:12] <andypugh> stepspace = 0 is correct, assuming that "reset" is active on the step pins.
[21:33:33] <Nostoc> http://pastebin.com/3jZ11mau <----.hal file
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[21:33:47] <andypugh> Then the step length is as set, and the space length is whatever is left.
[21:34:32] <andypugh> reset time is the step time. 1000 might be too low
[21:35:14] <Nostoc> I don't understand what you mean when you say I am using "reset" or how to check that reset is active on the step pins
[21:35:39] <Nostoc> JT-shop said the timings were dir 200 step 2000 step space 2000 dir setup 200
[21:35:42] <andypugh> You could try 10000 and see what happens, 10uS step time is still 30,000rpm (unless I have my maths wrong)
[21:36:06] <andypugh> Actually, don't do that. That would make the machine very sluggish. But 2000 should be right.
[21:36:06] <JT-Shop> Nostoc: yea that is what I use
[21:36:44] <Nostoc> JT-Shop: could you look at my pastebin, and compare them to yours?
[21:36:58] <Nostoc> I am not sure how to enter those timings except by using stepconf
[21:37:13] <Nostoc> and if I use stepconf, it will erase all of the custom work I did to get it to work with my gantry set up
[21:37:14] <JT-Shop> I'm using a 5i20 now not the parallel port
[21:37:26] <Nostoc> oh
[21:37:37] <JT-Shop> Step Pulse “0” Time: 2uS min (Step on rising edge)
[21:37:43] <andypugh> Then, try making the acellerations in the INI file a lot less. Like, divide by 100 and see if that helps, then if it does you can increase them again until a problem appears.
[21:37:44] <JT-Shop> Step Pulse “1” Time: 1 uS min
[21:37:53] <JT-Shop> Direction Setup: 200nS before step pulse rising edge
[21:37:55] <JT-Shop> 200nS hold after step pulse rising edge
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[21:38:44] <DaViruz> Nostoc: make a new setup with stepconf and then copy those settings
[21:39:16] <Nostoc> ok, let me try a few of these things
[21:39:28] <JT-Shop> Nostoc: what voltage is your power supply?
[21:39:31] <andypugh> Rest assured that EMC2 does work properly :-)
[21:40:51] <andypugh> Well, normally. It is easy to break it with nothing more than a compiler, the source code and a lack of knowledge. DAMHIK
[21:41:03] <Nostoc> +48V power supply, it was bought as a kit from cncrouterparts, I'm pretty confident in it
[21:41:10] <Nostoc> lol
[21:42:46] <JT-Shop> 48v is good, some try and run real fast with low voltage and that don't work
[21:43:41] <Nostoc> Yeah, I bought it as a kit to avoid getting too bogged down, my next build I'm going to fit it myself
[21:43:50] <Nostoc> and yes, the default timings in stepconf are wrong
[21:44:11] <Nostoc> they list step time as 1uS, step space as 2uS, dir hold as 200nS and dir setup as 200nS
[21:44:34] <JT-Shop> google brings this up I suspect that you have the step polarity wrong. The step outputs need to be inverted, or you will get very erratic results. "
[21:45:19] <JT-Shop> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg17973.html
[21:46:00] <tom3p> i bought similar kit from keling. glad i listened to this discussion. its WAY different than stepconf & http://www.cnczone.com/forums/emc_linux_enhanced_machine_control/78514-emc2_configuration_file_g540.html & http://www.onel.se/all_files/gecko_g540.html
[21:46:30] <tom3p> thx JT-Shop
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[21:50:00] <Nostoc> yeah thanks for finding that JT-shop
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[21:51:25] <Nostoc> how do I invert the step outputs?
[21:52:02] <Nostoc> do I just invert the parport for xstep?
[21:52:06] <Nostoc> so it would be like
[21:52:38] <Nostoc> net xstep => parport.0.pin-02-out
[21:52:39] <Nostoc> setp parport.0.pin-02-out-reset 1
[21:52:39] <Nostoc> setp parport.0.pin-02-out-invert 1
[21:53:08] <Nostoc> I have already inverted some of the direction pins, to get my slave axes in synch
[21:53:14] <andypugh> Yes. that works. Or you can use stepconf. However, HAL gives you proper control
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[21:53:47] <Nostoc> andypugh: By HAL gives you proper control, you mean editing the .hal file by hand?
[21:54:08] <andypugh> Yes.
[21:54:36] <andypugh> It's my preferred way, though I normally suggest stepconf.
[21:55:26] <Nostoc> Fair, I plan to do a lot of weird non cnc things with this program, so I'd rather try learning it in gedit.
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[21:59:44] <JT-Shop> Nostoc: have a quick read of this http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_basic_hal.html
[22:00:01] * JT-Shop left the meter running on the mill and has to make chips
[22:06:12] <Nostoc> Thanks everyone, inverting and increasing the steptime seem to have worked great
[22:06:33] <Nostoc> I still have an error, but it is not random
[22:06:34] <andypugh> Glad to hear it.
[22:06:45] <Nostoc> and the positional error showed up in mach3 also
[22:06:45] <andypugh> Ah, well, we were hoping for no error
[22:06:52] <Nostoc> yeah, i'm still trying for it
[22:07:12] <Nostoc> it seems like it is off by +0.001 on about half of the 0.1" moves
[22:07:12] <andypugh> Travelling too far?
[22:07:18] <Nostoc> yeah
[22:07:32] <andypugh> How far is one step?
[22:08:00] <Nostoc> granted, a single step for this axis is 1/8000"
[22:08:07] <Nostoc> my calculator just crashed on me =/
[22:08:16] <Nostoc> so I guess 0.000125
[22:08:25] <andypugh> OK, so that isn't it.
[22:08:31] <andypugh> Backlash?
[22:08:41] <Nostoc> this error occurs when moving in the same direction
[22:08:56] <andypugh> What sort of leadscrew?
[22:08:56] <Nostoc> there is no backlash in the z axis (the one I am testing)
[22:09:11] <Nostoc> ACME, 2 start
[22:09:12] <andypugh> How are you measuring the position
[22:09:13] <Nostoc> 4TPI
[22:09:35] <Nostoc> I am measuring the position using a dial indicator mounted onto where the spindle would be
[22:09:40] <Nostoc> I made a custom mount for it
[22:10:24] <andypugh> If it is correct on average then it might just be the indicator
[22:11:28] <Nostoc> it is not a random error, I am almost tempted to say it is the leadscrew since going in the reverse direction it does the same thing (moves 0.101")
[22:11:51] <Nostoc> but the leadscrew was from mcmaster and rated at 0.004" or less per foot
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[22:16:10] <andypugh> Well, it could be .004 out every turn, and still only out 0.004 after a foot, if it all averages out.
[22:16:33] <andypugh> But I would be very surprised by that.
[22:17:05] <FinboySlick> Which cvs commit of rtai should I use to match hal-linux- ?
[22:17:13] <andypugh> However, it could be some cyclic error in the axis. If it is 4tpi, what do 0.25" steps look like?
[22:18:48] <A2Sheds> FinboySlick: wasn't it the one in the link I posted yesterday?
[22:19:33] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: I'm still trying to dig that out :P
[22:21:25] <A2Sheds> do a cvs checkout for magma
[22:21:56] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Yes, that bit I know. I'm trying to do a checkout of the 2.8-04 version of magma. I'm not sure it's the latest.
[22:22:20] <FinboySlick> I'd like to find the proper commit number.
[22:22:33] <A2Sheds> cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.gna.org:/cvs/rtai co magma
[22:22:47] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: That'll get me the latest commit, no?
[22:23:13] <A2Sheds> magma has all the latest kernel support
[22:23:18] <A2Sheds> yes
[22:24:20] <FinboySlick> That's not necessarily the same as 2.8-04.
[22:24:51] <A2Sheds> it's what he used
[22:25:16] <FinboySlick> As in he used the latest, or he used the 2.8-04 commit? ;)
[22:25:28] * FinboySlick is asinine, he knows.
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[23:09:52] <FinboySlick> Hmmm, it doesn't seem to be getting along with uclibc too well.
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[23:55:55] <FinboySlick> A2Sheds: Ever run into something like this? http://pastebin.com/C9mAfNUT