#emc | Logs for 2011-10-03

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[00:52:06] <Jymmm> Is there a "safe" way to drill ferrocerium by chance?
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[00:53:49] <Tom_itx> under water?
[00:54:15] <zhanx> or a ton of water mist on it
[00:54:57] <Jymmm> Just try drilling a hole in one end without generating any sparks. It doesn’t matter how much coolant, or how slowly I drill the Ferrocerium, I always end up getting sparks.
[00:56:47] <Jymmm> Since I don't typically play with Class D materials, just wonder what some of you do for these.
[00:57:48] <zhanx> i never drill them now, when i did tool and die work, i had to use pink "special" coolant when i did
[00:58:03] <Jymmm> ah
[00:58:07] <zhanx> basicly drowned it in as i drilled/ machined it
[00:58:32] <Jymmm> Is that the same process for magnesium too?
[00:58:44] <zhanx> never worked with it sorry
[00:58:52] <Jymmm> k
[00:59:26] <Jymmm> I know when I used to take a short cut thru the machine shop, they had grafiti extiguishers everywhere =)
[00:59:31] <Jymmm> graphite
[01:00:22] <zhanx> yep for a reason
[01:00:29] <Jymmm> =)
[01:00:49] <zhanx> we had 5 different types at every station
[01:01:08] <zhanx> i was like ok using this mat so i need this one just in case
[01:01:34] <Jymmm> 5? do you remember what they were? DryChem, CO2, Graphite, Purple K, ???
[01:02:08] <zhanx> and straight water
[01:02:22] <Jymmm> oh, heh. ok.
[01:02:38] <Jymmm> I'm surpsied I remembered Purple K
[01:02:42] <Jymmm> surprised
[01:04:19] <zhanx> just grabbed these for my pcb mill http://www.ebay.com/itm/110730791567?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[01:06:15] <Jymmm> cool
[01:06:29] <zhanx> grabbing 8mm drill rod for them now
[01:06:53] <zhanx> i want a .0001 on the pcb mill if i can
[01:07:57] <Jymmm> will 8mm (as opposed to 13mm) give you that?
[01:08:44] <zhanx> its a super small machine
[01:08:48] <zhanx> 8x8x9
[01:08:51] <zhanx> inches
[01:08:56] <Jymmm> without flexing I mean
[01:09:18] <zhanx> that is outside measurements
[01:09:29] <zhanx> cut area is 6x6x3"
[01:10:08] <Jymmm> I only ask becuse I see those vending engrving machines at the pet stores that engrave dog tags and they use 25mm
[01:10:32] <zhanx> for me that is over kill
[01:10:39] <Jymmm> k
[01:10:46] <zhanx> its being made out of mdf
[01:10:51] <zhanx> nema 17's etc
[01:10:58] <zhanx> personal use not commerical
[01:11:07] <Jymmm> ah
[01:13:03] <zhanx> making it strong for its size
[01:13:51] <zhanx> 1/2 thick mdf
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[01:44:20] <Jymmm> 1/2" is ok, 3/4" is better =)
[01:44:30] <Jymmm> less flexing I find.
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[02:45:08] <atom1> logger[psha],
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[03:21:16] <Tom_itx> is emc in world mode by default?
[03:21:33] <Tom_itx> i presume world mode means no G54 etc is in effect
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[13:47:41] <Mjolinor> in stepconf when testing axis is the "test area" + and - the distance shown or jsut the distance shown?
[13:47:55] <Mjolinor> so if it is set to 5 mm will i get 10 mm movement?
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[14:00:57] <Mjolinor> ok answered that one :)
[14:08:51] <archivist> 5mm is bit on the small side to fully get up to speed
[14:13:00] <Mjolinor> I am trying to set hte speed and hte acceleration
[14:13:05] <Mjolinor> and its bloody hard :)
[14:14:24] <archivist> accelerate slowly at first
[14:14:57] <Mjolinor> it doesent seem to make a lot of sense. I have a dial guage on it adn am moving small amount repeatedly adn making sure it is not missing any steps
[14:15:12] <Mjolinor> but I cant find any consistent rules
[14:16:09] <archivist> if you can ramp up to full speed then small stuff is easy
[14:16:41] <Mjolinor> but I dont know what full speed is
[14:16:54] <Mjolinor> I htink it is somehwere beetween 2 adn 3 mm / s
[14:17:04] <Mjolinor> but it is very dependant on the acceleration
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[14:27:22] <pcw_home> Yes at some speed, max acceleration is 0...
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[14:57:44] <ries> gents, I need to verify a thought with you :) I have a z-axis that pushes down on a scale with around 15 kilo. If I want to balance that with a gas-spring then my gas spring should be 150 newtons, right?
[15:00:03] <archivist> or a real weight on the end of a rope over a pulley
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[15:01:33] <ries> archivist: but I am not dragging a extra 15Kilo on my gantry?
[15:01:48] <Jymmm> 1kN = 224.8 Lbs (I have nfc after that =)
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[15:08:21] <jdhNC> http://www.amazon.com/SUSPA%C2%AE-Spring-Strut-Shock-C16-02648/dp/B0041EFJT8
[15:10:30] <jdhNC> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-3591-30&catname=misc
[15:11:34] <ries> very cheap...
[15:11:39] <ries> I need to order in holland though
[15:11:57] <jdhNC> you can get them in stainless from boat places
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[15:12:06] <jdhNC> shiny is good.
[15:12:22] <ries> haha… I was looking here : http://www.t-technics.nl/pdf/paginag10.pdf
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[15:31:00] <Danimal_garage> hi
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[15:37:50] <ries> Jymmm: jdhNC Ok, what if I order the gas spring in holland and move it up to a altitude of 2500meter. Should I compensate for the pressure?
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[15:39:37] <archivist> ries, dia exposed to air pressure is too small to effect it that much I think
[15:39:42] <Jymmm> ries: See, now you're just mucking with us and I'm thinking archivist's suggestion of rope/pulley/weight might be what you need and is adjustable.
[15:40:23] <ries> Jymmm: no no… I am not mucking.. I am ordering it in Holland, but I life high up in the Andes at 2400meters
[15:40:26] <archivist> som gas springs have a port to adjust the pressure
[15:40:54] <archivist> get for higher pressure and let down a bit
[15:41:04] <ries> archivist: I know about this, but I think I can get away without them. My steppers are powerful enough to cope with any differences
[15:41:11] <archivist> not all have this facility
[15:41:14] <ries> I don't see how I can do the rope + weight though
[15:41:41] <Jymmm> ries: If you can't get/find adjustable springs, maybe get two sets. One low altitude, one high altitude and change tham out as needed.
[15:42:13] <ries> I was just thinking if I really want to fine tune, I will just get some elastics...
[15:42:28] <ries> I just requested a price for 150Newton / 300mm
[15:42:33] <ries> That should be good I think
[15:42:53] <skunkworks> doesn't a rope+weight add to much mass?
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[15:43:10] <ries> skunkworks: that's what I was thinking...
[15:43:22] <Jymmm> skunkworks: steel rope and lead/gold weight =)
[15:43:22] <archivist> gas spring has friction though
[15:43:57] <ries> archivist: But Z doesn't need to be very fast, usually… (woodworking)
[15:44:28] <Jymmm> ries: LOTS of little moves when carving wood
[15:44:51] <ries> Jymmm: I don't do that to frequently, it's more cutting work
[15:45:09] <Jymmm> ries: no V-carving?
[15:45:15] <ries> You have a point though I should take into consideration when I do carve
[15:45:22] <ries> Jymmm: Not to much
[15:45:38] <ries> I am planning though… I wonder what other less friction system there is
[15:46:12] <Jymmm> Heh, block and tackle counter weight =)
[15:46:25] <ries> But that adds 15 Kilo…..
[15:46:31] <Jymmm> then you can use fishing weights =)
[15:46:33] <archivist> least friction is just handle the Z weight by the stepper
[15:47:04] <archivist> depends which problem needs solving
[15:47:37] <ries> archivist: the issue here is that with micro stepping the Z resolution goes down (less predictable) and the run is far less smooth
[15:47:46] <archivist> go part way and only counter balance part of the weight
[15:48:01] <ries> My current system works like that with a much smaller spindle… Since I am upgrading I have to compensate
[15:48:13] <archivist> http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[15:48:40] <ries> archivist: exactly, my holding torque goes down
[15:48:43] <archivist> forget micro stepping for accuracy and resolution
[15:49:19] <ries> Oo yes… still I want a smooth ride up and down...
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[15:49:31] <archivist> better off half step and finer screw pitch
[15:49:53] <ries> it's pinion and rack… But I am planning to build a held gear
[15:49:56] <ries> beld gear
[15:50:05] <archivist> ew
[15:50:48] <Jymmm> I wonder if you could use an adjustable tool balancer and a couple of pulleys
[15:51:00] <archivist> you probably have a rack pitch error too
[15:51:08] <ries> archivist: I life in a country where I cannot get the goodies
[15:51:34] <archivist> you need the weight to remove the backlash from the rack
[15:52:03] <archivist> never fully counter balance a loose system
[15:54:23] <ries> archivist: I have a 2Kg difference going up… (20 newton)
[15:55:20] <ries> so when the power goes off, my tool doesn't just drop in my project
[15:56:53] <Danimal_garage> OT: does anyone have a subscription to Pandora one? im wondering if the higher quality audio is worth it or if streaming through my phone is even effected
[15:57:36] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: Did you sign up for the free trial?
[15:57:52] <Danimal_garage> no
[15:57:59] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: =)
[15:58:51] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: It's one week free trial. I didn't really notice that much of a difference myself, but I didn't use headphones either.
[15:59:23] <Danimal_garage> i dont like signing up for stuff that i dont intend to keep, and i wouldnt keep it if it didn't improve audio on my phone (i stream it through my car)
[15:59:48] <Danimal_garage> cant find much info on that
[16:00:09] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: then use a throw away email address
[16:00:34] <Danimal_garage> i just figured they take your billing info and charge you after a week
[16:02:27] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: http://www.pandora.com/#pandoraOneInfo
[16:02:35] <Jymmm> they have smaples
[16:02:57] <Jymmm> samples
[16:03:29] <Danimal_garage> i know it's a bit better on the computer, it's the mobile devices that i can't find info on
[16:03:51] <Danimal_garage> if the quality isn't better on mobile devices, i don't want it
[16:04:50] <A2Sheds> setup a proxy for pandora, I bet they would love that
[16:05:41] <jdhNC> they don't really care
[16:06:59] <Danimal_garage> i stream pandora at home through my blue ray player, the quality seems much better than streaming it off pandora.com, and it doesn't stop every hour, and there's barely any commercials
[16:08:18] <cpresser_> as US residents you are luck to have pandora/hulu/netflix. I cant access those from germany :/
[16:08:30] <A2Sheds> save 48 hours of streaming from your favorite station, I notice lots of repeats after only a few hours
[16:09:26] <Danimal_garage> A2Sheds: definitely, to avoid that, you need to add variety to the channel
[16:09:58] <Danimal_garage> you can add other artists or you can do a quickmix
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[16:10:33] <Danimal_garage> no netflix in Germany???
[16:10:58] <Danimal_garage> that sucks. have you tried using a proxy?
[16:11:01] <A2Sheds> that's what a proxy is for
[16:11:28] <Danimal_garage> i dont even have cable, i just stream netflix
[16:11:41] <Mjolinor> needing help with my ini and hal files
[16:12:01] <cpresser_> i had a VPN which gives me an US ip; but its expensive, and does not work on high-bandwidth streams
[16:12:15] <Mjolinor> X and Y are OK but I don't have a Z, I have pin 16 spindle start and pin 14 solenoid on (cutter up) and solonoid off
[16:13:13] <Mjolinor> and I dont know how to tell emc2 that G1 Z#101 means solenoid off and G0 Z#100 means cutter down
[16:13:25] <Mjolinor> or vice versa
[16:13:43] <A2Sheds> cpresser_ : http://www.tunnelr.com/ I've heard about this inexpensive one
[16:13:57] <JT-Shop> use M1xx
[16:14:52] <Danimal_garage> Hi John
[16:15:00] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan
[16:15:16] <Mjolinor> was M1xx aimed at me?
[16:15:18] <Danimal_garage> how goes it
[16:15:28] <cpresser_> A2Sheds: thank you, i will see if that service will work for me. 7$ is not that expensive
[16:15:32] <cpresser_> Mjolinor: yes, it was
[16:16:03] <Mjolinor> ok, doesn't mean anything , sorry :) I assume its a code for the gcode file but that means editing the files I make with PCB
[16:16:54] <JT-Shop> Mjolinor: yes
[16:16:59] <Mjolinor> I thought I owuld jsut need to edit the HAL and INI files to tell it that the Z axis is on or off not variable
[16:17:03] <JT-Shop> doing good Dan how about you
[16:17:24] <cpresser_> Mjolinor: you might want to use simple search+replace to edit you gcode files. one regular expression is enough
[16:17:43] <Mjolinor> yup, that's not a problem
[16:17:57] <A2Sheds> cpresser_ : also http://www.witopia.net/welcome.php and http://www.strongvpn.com/ even works in China
[16:17:59] <Mjolinor> presuambly I have to tell EMC2 what to do when it gets an MXX code
[16:18:04] <Mjolinor> somehow
[16:18:18] <Danimal_garage> cant complain
[16:18:19] <JT-Shop> it's possible to use the Z direction pin but the startup state is unknown
[16:18:31] <cpresser_> Mjolinor: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M100-to-M199:
[16:18:44] <Mjolinor> cheers
[16:19:22] <JT-Shop> did a bit more work on the ballista saturday
[16:19:44] <JT-Shop> need to get it out of the way so I can tear into the trike rear end
[16:19:49] <Danimal_garage> hows it coming?
[16:19:51] <Danimal_garage> ha
[16:20:11] <Danimal_garage> yea, it would be smart to finish the wife's stuff sooner than later
[16:20:40] <JT-Shop> ballista is making progress, trike is in a holding pattern... need to finish the trim in the living room really
[16:21:08] * JT-Shop goes to make a few chips
[16:21:19] <Danimal_garage> you almost have as many unfinished projects as me
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[16:23:05] <JT-Shop> well the outside of the shop is unfinished...
[16:23:55] <Danimal_garage> haha
[16:24:00] <Danimal_garage> what about the snow?
[16:24:08] <Danimal_garage> wont the weather damage it?
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[16:44:25] <JT-Shop> eventually it will :)
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[16:54:22] <Danimal_garage> vinyl siding?
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[17:01:23] <JT-Shop> I've not decided yet if vinyl or hardie plank
[17:02:24] <Danimal_garage> ah
[17:02:44] <Danimal_garage> do you have to paint the hardie plank?
[17:06:40] <jdhNC> you can get it pre-primed, but you have to paint it.
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[17:07:41] <Danimal_garage> yuck, peeling paint....
[17:07:45] <jdhNC> some insurance companies give you fire discount for hardie stuff, in theory
[17:08:00] <Danimal_garage> ah
[17:08:48] <Danimal_garage> everything is stucco out here
[17:10:16] <JT-Shop> you can get prepainted hardie and the lumber yard has some mixed colors I can get for 1/2 price...
[17:10:37] <Danimal_garage> not bad
[17:10:45] <Danimal_garage> then just repaint it yourself?
[17:10:56] <JT-Shop> yea
[17:11:04] <jdhNC> cool, when I got mine, you could only get pre-primed
[17:11:35] <Danimal_garage> i think i'd rather replace vinyl siding than scrape and paint though lol
[17:12:06] <jdhNC> I dont' know how well this stuff would scrape
[17:12:20] <Danimal_garage> just go white so you don't have to worry about it fading
[17:14:25] <JT-Shop> jdhNC: you used the lap siding or the 4x8 sheets?
[17:14:42] <jdhNC> lap siding
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[17:20:25] <jdhNC> I had 2 coats of some expensive 25 year paint put on, no flaking or anything in 5 years so far
[17:20:38] <awallin_> someone making a positive plug for a 1m long model boat: http://mainboom.blogspot.com/2011/10/ottobre.html
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[17:24:35] <Danimal_garage> i think i have to have my house sandblasted in order to repaint it if it starts peeling
[17:24:44] <jdhNC> heh
[17:24:52] <Danimal_garage> i have no clue how old the paint is either
[17:24:58] <Danimal_garage> at least 5 years
[17:25:00] <jdhNC> get a detail blaster and just do the flaking spots.
[17:25:16] <Danimal_garage> no flaking yet thankfully
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[17:25:29] <Danimal_garage> paint is still in great shape
[17:25:38] <Danimal_garage> i assume it has much more bite on stucco
[17:25:38] <jdhNC> no stucco here, 10 years ago, there were a lot of problems with housing rotting out under synthetic stucco so they don't sell well
[17:25:51] <Danimal_garage> ah
[17:26:10] <Danimal_garage> mine is real stucco from 1970
[17:26:44] <jdhNC> it breathes, the stuff there were using here didn't if it were put on incorrectly... turns out it was always put on incorrectly
[17:26:50] <andypugh> We'd consider that a new-build here.
[17:27:08] <Danimal_garage> same with where i grew up andypugh
[17:27:10] <JT-Shop> anything newer than 1500
[17:27:14] <Danimal_garage> ha
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[17:27:36] <Danimal_garage> jdhNC: there's no wood under the stucco except for the studs
[17:28:14] <JT-Shop> it would take about 180 planks to do the garage and shop up to the roof level
[17:28:30] <Danimal_garage> the stucco is about an inch thicki believe. maybe 1.25"
[17:28:54] <jdhNC> they are heavy, and sag in the middle for long stretches... and sawing it puts lots of nasty stuff in the air
[17:29:01] <Danimal_garage> i cut a hole through the wall for my doggy door
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[17:29:24] <JT-Shop> sounds like fun to install
[17:29:33] <jdhNC> you don
[17:29:40] <jdhNC> you don't want to do it by yourself
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[17:51:32] <Tom_itx> gawd
[17:51:36] <Tom_itx> 2 hrs at the dmv
[17:51:49] <jdhNC> crap, I was supposed to do that today
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[17:52:20] <Danimal_garage> that sucks
[17:52:42] <Danimal_garage> i spent some time in there over the past week
[17:53:45] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, hardyplank? is that like concrete siding?
[17:54:08] <Danimal_garage> i was in and out within 5 minutes the first time. the second time was about an hour
[17:54:12] <Tom_itx> minimal business but had to be done
[17:54:17] <Danimal_garage> Tom_itx: i think so
[17:54:38] <Tom_itx> i considered that here
[17:54:47] <Danimal_garage> i'm assuming it's like the hardy backer i used in my bathroom when i tiled the walls
[17:54:57] <Tom_itx> come time to fix the hardboard
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[17:58:46] <Danimal_garage> ugh i think i should be all caught up on machining tomorrow evening. then i have an ass ton of stuff to debur and anodize :(
[17:58:59] <jdhNC> do you do your own anodizing?
[17:59:04] <Danimal_garage> yes
[17:59:37] <Danimal_garage> although i may consider sending it out this time since i have so much of it
[17:59:48] <jdhNC> do you have to allow for it making parts?
[18:00:43] <Danimal_garage> what do you mean? like compensate for the thickness of the anodizing?
[18:00:49] <jdhNC> yeah
[18:01:03] <Danimal_garage> eh
[18:01:22] <Danimal_garage> barely, it grows by maybe .0005" max
[18:01:52] <jdhNC> oh
[18:02:03] <Danimal_garage> polishing, etch, and deox probably removes that much so i bet it evens out
[18:02:15] <syyl__> almost done :D
[18:02:16] <syyl__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtEl1abT6bY
[18:02:20] <jdhNC> someday, I hope to have a machine finished to make parts that need to be anodized
[18:02:38] <syyl__> (probing in the video is done manualy, not via emc)
[18:03:29] <Danimal_garage> no machine yet jdhNC?
[18:03:34] <Danimal_garage> are you building one?
[18:04:21] <jdhNC> I have a router that is working. I have a G0704 mill that I'm almost ready to start converting.
[18:04:48] <jdhNC> though I was really hoping Connor would just be really nice and make two of everything for his.
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[18:06:45] <Danimal_garage> haha
[18:08:21] <jdhNC> I'm working on a 3bar o2 cell checker at the moment (cut the panel and stuff with the router). Need to finish the code for the I2C ADC and then move on to the mill.
[18:09:00] <Danimal_garage> i dont even know what that is
[18:09:41] <Danimal_garage> and im guessing i still wouldnt even if you explained it to me
[18:10:02] <jdhNC> you connect up to 3 oxygen sensors, flush with oxygen, then pressurize to 1,2,3 bar with oxygen and check for the cell linearity.
[18:10:33] <Danimal_garage> for what purpose?
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[18:10:50] <Tom_itx> making sure it's oxygen?
[18:11:21] <Danimal_garage> for what use?
[18:11:33] <Danimal_garage> to check for dirty bombs 24/7?
[18:12:20] <jdhNC> to make sure the cells are still good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-galvanic_fuel_cell
[18:13:17] <jdhNC> they have a limited lifespan and the normal failure mode is to just silently stop reading high values. With this, I can run them up to 3 bar and see if they are limited.
[18:14:34] <Danimal_garage> i understand the whole checking thing, but for what purpose is the o2 for after checking?
[18:14:55] <jdhNC> oh, for measuring the o2 level in my rebreather.
[18:15:40] <jdhNC> I use them for blending o2/he/air also, but never more that 100% oxygen which can be test at atmospheric pressure
[18:16:05] <Danimal_garage> rebreather for diving or something of that sorts? or medical stuff?
[18:16:12] <jdhNC> diving
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[18:16:22] <Danimal_garage> ah ok makes sense now
[18:16:34] <jdhNC> medical rebreathers don't see higher than 1 atmosphere so you can test those cells with plain o2
[18:23:02] <Connor> jdhNC: HaHa. I'm still not done making mine yet.
[18:23:54] <jdhNC> I still haven't broken in my spindle.
[18:24:03] <Connor> Rofl.
[18:24:16] <Tom_itx> what are we making?
[18:24:23] <jdhNC> but, my wife wanted easy birthday presents so I sent her Shars URLs...might have some more tooling tomorrow.
[18:24:29] <Connor> CNC conversion parts for G0704
[18:24:37] <Tom_itx> mmm
[18:27:11] <Connor> I still have to trim and tap the remaining 8 standoff's.
[18:27:40] <jdhNC> speaking of which...
[18:28:05] <jdhNC> anyone have a 9x20? My drive belt broke, but the spare that came with it is not the same number as the one that broke.
[18:28:47] <Connor> same size?
[18:28:55] <jdhNC> no
[18:29:19] <jdhNC> same mfg, same series, different belt
[18:29:39] <Connor> hmm
[18:30:36] <jdhNC> the broken one is a 5m710 I think, the spare is a 5m730 (I think the 7xx is mm)
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[19:17:14] <A2Sheds> http://www.amazon.com/Density-Polyethylene-Sheet-White-Length/dp/B000ILHWCA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1317669408&sr=8-4
[19:17:35] <A2Sheds> anyone have a better priced source than Amazon for HDPE sheet?
[19:18:21] <A2Sheds> for low quantities of small sheets
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[19:19:04] <andypugh> pound-store for food-prep chopping blocks?
[19:19:33] <cradek> I admit that I have bought cutting boards just to cut them up
[19:19:36] <A2Sheds> maybe for under 1/2" thick
[19:19:44] <A2Sheds> Cradek heh same here
[19:19:52] <JT-Shop> any local plastic supply places might have a better price
[19:20:10] <andypugh> A2Sheds: eBay? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marine-Board-SEABOARD-Starboard-marine-HDPE-Lumber-1-4-x-36x-22-/190581656144
[19:20:52] <A2Sheds> it's the 1/2" - 1" thick sheet I can't find at the restaurant supply, dollar, hardware, houseware, etc stores
[19:21:31] <JT-Shop> I usually don't need much so I get it from McMaster Carr
[19:21:55] <JT-Shop> if I need a 4x8 sheet of something I call the plastic supply house in St Louis
[19:22:35] <grommit> I am installing some Granite servo drives on a machine. They can home them selves based on a signal. We want to signal them to home (they can do it based on hitting a hard stop), and then have EMC move to the first index pulse. Is there an emc output pin (signal?) that I can use to tell EMC to signal the granite to home?
[19:22:50] <A2Sheds> the plastic supplier around here are all hurting for business, they all want to charge me >$100 since they want to charge for a 4' x 8' sheet that they have to cut
[19:22:52] <jdhNC> I get starboard from local hardware and boat stores, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 1" in black, white, and some funky cream
[19:23:04] <JT-Shop> ouch
[19:23:28] <JT-Shop> if you need smaller bits look at McMaster Carr
[19:24:19] <andypugh> grommit: Is there any advantage in getting the drives to home themselves, over letting EMC2 home them?
[19:24:28] <A2Sheds> I know i have some here, I just have to search through 50 more boxes ..... the problem with movers doing the packing, boxes marked, "misc parts"
[19:24:50] <grommit> Yes, we don't have home/limit switches on the machine. The drive is capable of homing to a hard stop.
[19:25:19] <jdhNC> that sounds painful
[19:25:32] <andypugh> Well, you can probably use axis.N.is-homing....
[19:25:55] <grommit> You can do it in a torque limited mode so it creeps up and then is homed based on encoder counts (or lack thereof).
[19:26:23] <grommit> Then we want emc to find the index and call it home.
[19:26:25] <andypugh> sorry, axis.N.homing
[19:27:03] <grommit> I saw that one, but it says "true if the joint is homing"
[19:27:16] <andypugh> Well, if the drive sets a pin when it hits the stop, you can use that as the home-switch input, and enable index homing, and it might just work.
[19:27:55] <andypugh> Exactly, so you hit the home button, that pin sets the drive to homing mode, EMC2 throws a fit (f-error) but other than that, it's good.
[19:28:10] <andypugh> So, you might need a bit of HAL to squelch the f-error problem.
[19:28:45] <grommit> It does set an output pin (on the Granite), so I would feed that in as axis.X.home-sw-in
[19:28:48] <jdhNC> can you put a limit switch on the hard stop
[19:29:25] <A2Sheds> jdhNC : http://www.kingplastic.com/products/all-products/king-starboard-family/king-starboard/
[19:29:58] <grommit> I can put home/limit switches on but it might be a while so we want to be able to home before that. And if it works without, we might just not use them.
[19:30:17] <jdhNC> A2: yep, it's my favorite material. I make lots of stuff for my boat though.
[19:30:41] <jdhNC> any idea how the drive does hard stop detection? current spike?
[19:30:54] <grommit> andypugh: are you saying we use axis.N.homing as the signal out to the Granite?
[19:30:57] <A2Sheds> polypropylene or HDPE? they don't list it
[19:31:14] <jdhNC> A2: they list HDPE
[19:31:19] <A2Sheds> duh, HDPE
[19:31:22] <jdhNC> A2: I just use 'king starboard' though
[19:31:48] <grommit> I don't know how emc homes, but wouldn't it try to start moving the axes?
[19:31:50] <A2Sheds> hidden in the title of the data sheet, clever!
[19:32:36] <andypugh> grommit: Yes
[19:33:07] <grommit> If it was trying to move the axes, but the Granites were also doing that to home I am not sure what would happen - perhaps nothing good...
[19:33:12] <andypugh> It will try to start the axes homing, but the drive can just ignore that...
[19:33:25] <grommit> hmm, I suppose it might
[19:33:32] <andypugh> You need to make EMC2 not get too upset, possibly by re-routing the feedback for a while.
[19:35:58] <grommit> thx I will experiment
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[19:48:19] <grommit> can i run hal commands in the terminal while Axis is running? I want to issue show sig for instance...?
[19:49:27] <skunkworks> yes
[19:49:57] <grommit> what is the syntax?
[19:50:31] <skunkworks> installed emc? open terminal and type halcmd --f-k
[19:50:37] <skunkworks> installed emc? open terminal and type halcmd -fk
[19:50:41] <skunkworks> sorry
[19:51:02] <grommit> cool, thanks.
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[20:04:44] <A2Sheds> http://www.shars.com/products/view/2337/Grade_B_9quot_x_12quot_Black_Granite_Surface_Plate lower price than HDPE
[20:05:04] <A2Sheds> but much more difficult to machine
[20:07:51] <archivist> you can get a similar grade plate as a table setting :)
[20:08:06] <archivist> or floor tile
[20:08:44] <A2Sheds> 2.5um floor tile, thats pretty nice
[20:08:45] <syyl_> maybe as a tombstone...
[20:09:41] <A2Sheds> I wonder if their granite is also from China
[20:10:04] <JT-Shop> andypugh: triple spindle guy just decided to get rid of all that parallel port junk and put a 5i20 + 7i47 + 7i37TA in his dell
[20:10:28] <Danimal_garage> lol a table setting....
[20:10:29] <archivist> I looked at the roof reflection when at the supermarket couldnt see any error
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[20:10:52] <A2Sheds> is that why they call it "flatware" ?
[20:11:01] <archivist> been threatening to sell on ebay :)
[20:11:08] <Danimal_garage> i got my plate used, but it's a nice domestic one. cost the same as a new chinese one.
[20:14:02] <Tom_itx> mine says RIP on the bottom
[20:14:07] <Tom_itx> sry couldn't help it
[20:15:46] <Danimal_garage> lol
[20:16:34] <A2Sheds> besides writing an app to do it, is there an application to generate interlaced G-code for X-Y scans that are wave shaped vs linear movements?
[20:20:44] <A2Sheds> http://www.revolutiontransfers.co.uk/prodimages/i2weave.jpg not the clearest pic but it gets the idea across
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[20:32:16] <grommit> I have a Mesa 7i43 card (with 7i42 buffer card in front). I want to use a gpio pin as output. I have it defined as hm2_7i43.0.gpio.041.is_output true, setp hm2_7i43.0.gpio.041.is_opendrain true. I have the line pulled to +5v in a connector on the other end. When I start Axis, shouldn't I see that pin change state if I set/unset hm2_7i43.0.gpio.041.invert_output true each time? I am...
[20:32:18] <grommit> ...seeing +5v on it, no matter the setting of invert_output...?
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[20:35:13] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Something we seem to have to keep repeating on the Forum is that EMC2 is not tied to the parallel port, and in fact is pretty much deprecated for a serious machine.
[20:36:58] <cradek> it's tiring for me to read those threads and I'm not even one of you poor folks trying to reply to all the misconceptions
[20:37:14] <andypugh> grommit: Is this a pncconf setup, or did you write the HAL yourself? Does everything else work?
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[20:38:05] <grommit> it is pncconf but I have tweaked it a lot. The lines related to this io pin are my own.
[20:38:15] <grommit> Yes, other stuff works
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[20:38:43] <grommit> But my step/dir (that do work) are coming off a different connector on the 7i43
[20:38:48] <andypugh> Just checking that the thing that catches me out about once a week isn't the problem (forgetting to start the threads)
[20:40:43] <andypugh> You might not see any change unless you set the pin value. I can't recall how parsimonious the 7i43 driver is with IO. However, it is probably all handled by TRAM, so probably gets sent every thread.
[20:41:11] <andypugh> What value of pull-up resistor is it?
[20:41:19] <grommit> ok, will look at setting pin value.
[20:41:38] <andypugh> You know you can do that in machine->show hal config?
[20:42:07] <grommit> oh right, thanks for the reminder
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[20:42:35] <grommit> The pullup is in the Mesa card, not sure of the value
[20:43:35] <andypugh> Well, it should be able to handle its own pull-up, so that's not it.
[20:43:42] <Danimal_garage> yawn
[20:44:20] <Danimal_garage> man, i need to take a trip to the scrap yard, my chip barrels are FULL
[20:45:30] <Danimal_garage> 2 44 gallon barrels and a large rubbermaid tub full of about 100lbs of aluminum solids
[20:45:43] <Danimal_garage> barrels are full of chips
[20:47:10] <andypugh> Yum!
[20:48:36] <Danimal_garage> a month's worth of chips buys beer for 2 weeks lol
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[20:49:24] <andypugh> I don't think mine is worth anything, being mixed-material
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[20:50:13] <Danimal_garage> my chips are mixed, i set the solids of aluminum aside, that's $0.55/lb
[20:51:14] <A2Sheds> PCW: is there a part number yet for the lower cost version of the PCIe anything IO board?
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[20:52:16] <A2Sheds> will it be an internal PCIe slot board?
[20:52:39] <Danimal_garage> will pcie be cheaper than pci?
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[20:53:45] <andypugh> Are we discussing PCI-express or PCI-external?
[20:53:49] <archivist> solid ally is 50p a kilo here
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[20:54:21] <Danimal_garage> express
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[20:55:08] <PCW> 6I25
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[20:56:38] <andypugh> OK, cirrent google number one hit for 6i25 is not relevant.
[20:57:28] <A2Sheds> PCW: are you going with the 5i25 features only with PCIe?
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[20:59:03] <PCW> Yes 6I25 is PCIE version of 5I25 theres also 5I24/6I24 which are 3x 50 pin connector SP6 cards
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[21:03:28] <PCW> First cabled external SP6 PCIE will be 7I80-ILB since its modular and requires the least layout
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[21:04:04] <A2Sheds> PCW: is there an FPGA anything IO with a few MB of RAM onboard?
[21:04:13] <PCW> Playing with 7I80 ESB today (Ethernet-Small-BareIO)
[21:05:05] <PCW> Not from us though its probably pretty easy these days with the hardware DDR RAM controller in SP6 and above
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[21:06:07] <A2Sheds> yeah, just wondering since I'd be looking to combine the motion control with a framebuffer for printheads
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[21:07:34] <PCW> With a bus mastering device you probably have enough bandwidth that the frambuffer can stay on the host
[21:07:38] <A2Sheds> there's plenty of room in the SP6 for the RAM controller, but not enough space to buffer image data
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[21:08:20] <PCW> what data rate do you have?
[21:08:48] <A2Sheds> sure, with a PCIe based setup. I was just thinking about a stand alone FPGA board with USB
[21:10:08] <andypugh> Stone him! He used the "U" acronym! :-)
[21:10:23] <A2Sheds> only 40m-bits sec
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[21:11:10] <A2Sheds> heh, yeah for SoftDMC vs HostMot2
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[21:12:44] <PCW> 5 mbytes/sec so USB latencies would require a fairly large buffer
[21:13:03] <PCW> (and high speed USB)
[21:13:31] <A2Sheds> or you just pause the printhead movement while the image data catches up
[21:16:13] <A2Sheds> ~220K bits for each scan
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[21:18:24] <grommit> PCW: What would cause a gpio pin to stay high even though I have it in open drain and have it pulled up to external +5V?
[21:18:47] <Danimal_garage> do you have the pin inverted in hal?
[21:18:55] <grommit> yes
[21:19:10] <Danimal_garage> and it's set up for opendrain in hal as well?
[21:19:17] <grommit> but I don't think it makes any difference inverted or not. It is just pegged at 5
[21:19:23] <grommit> yes, open drain
[21:19:38] <grommit> I can see it toggling in Hal configuration
[21:19:52] <Danimal_garage> wiring most likely
[21:19:54] <PCW> and you have the GPIO pin set high?
[21:20:39] <grommit> It toggles when I click the on/off button in Axis
[21:21:09] <grommit> I toggle it, and see it change state in HAL Configuration viewer, but it stays high
[21:21:17] <Danimal_garage> how is it wired?
[21:21:22] <andypugh> Are you absolutely sure you are on the right pin?
[21:21:51] <grommit> Pretty darn sure
[21:22:12] <PCW> well you might remove your external circuit in case you have it stuck high externally
[21:22:25] <grommit> I can see the voltage on my meter go from 5.002 to 5.004 when I toggle it.
[21:22:46] <PCW> sounds like you have it tied to VCC
[21:23:27] <andypugh> Are you on the bare pin, or the far side of a ribbon? Which pin number?
[21:24:11] <grommit> I have it tied to the same 5v supply that is powering the card itself, so I guess I do have it tied to VCC. I think I wired it the same way as my ssrs in another machine...
[21:24:25] <andypugh> Ah, you said, GPIO 41. That's not near enough the _5V pin to be shorted in the IDC is it?
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[21:24:53] <grommit> It isn't a ribbon.
[21:25:14] <grommit> It is a STP to a 25 pin D-sub on the other end
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[21:25:43] <PCW> is this direct from the 7I43?
[21:25:51] <grommit> no, 7i42
[21:26:50] <PCW> ok look at the voltage on the other side of the 50 Ohm resistor connected to GPIO 41
[21:27:40] <grommit> +5V----Pin18(in D-Sub)-------------------Mesa 7i42 IO17 (or 7i43 IO41)
[21:28:12] <grommit> Ok, I have two 7i42 stacked and, of course, this one is on the bottom. Will take a minute to expose it...
[21:29:24] <grommit> Before I do that, is it kosher to have a pin pulled up to +5v supply (that is powering the cards themselves) and use the open drain to pull it down?
[21:29:55] <PCW> I assume you mean like +5V --> SSR+ SSR- --> PULLUP and GPIO42
[21:29:57] <A2Sheds> only through a resistor
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[21:30:10] <grommit> No resistor.
[21:30:19] <PCW> Oww!
[21:30:21] <grommit> I thought the mesa had an internal pullup
[21:30:31] <andypugh> Yes, but its a few K.
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[21:30:59] <andypugh> So you are shorting it out with a wire in parallel to the internal pull-up
[21:31:27] <PCW> Wait a second, what is GPIO41 connected to? I thought it drove a SSR
[21:31:43] <andypugh> It's best to think of the 7i43 pins as little switches that connect things to earth when low and don't do that when high.
[21:32:04] <A2Sheds> the FET would have to pull down the current limited by the resistance of whatever you are using to short to +5
[21:32:08] <elmo40> im a big boy now... I wear Pull-Ups. >_< Sorry, just had to say it :P
[21:32:09] <grommit> It will be connected to the Granite drive in order to signal enable
[21:32:44] <PCW> What is the resistance of your pullup resistor?
[21:33:11] <grommit> I don't have a pull up resistor.
[21:33:21] <grommit> besides what is in the 7i43
[21:33:33] <andypugh> I am confused again.
[21:34:03] <grommit> It is literally wired: +5V----Pin18(in D-Sub)-------------------Mesa 7i42 IO17 (or 7i43 IO41)
[21:34:04] <PCW> Well that cant work because you have shorted the output to 5V
[21:34:23] <PCW> poor FPGA is screaming
[21:34:37] <A2Sheds> grommit: "I have it tied to the same 5v supply that is powering the card itself" how and what exactly is tied to the +5?
[21:34:51] <grommit> Well damn. I thought I had done this on an SSR in my other machine...?
[21:35:03] <andypugh> The only way that pin can change state is by sinking all the curren that the PSU can manage, which would also turn everything else off.
[21:35:08] <A2Sheds> the GPIO pin to +5 powering the card?
[21:35:47] <A2Sheds> with a wire?
[21:36:01] <grommit> I am confused. I thought the 7i43 had an internal pull up
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[21:36:09] <grommit> so what value pull up do I put on it?
[21:36:23] <andypugh> grommit: If you have an SSR somewhere in the chain between +5V and the 7i43 pin, then that's fine because the SSR control-side is a big resistor.
[21:36:26] <A2Sheds> grommit: yes, it does but you have shorted the pullup with your wire
[21:36:48] <grommit> I don't have an SSR on THIS setup
[21:36:56] <grommit> I was using that on another machine
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[21:37:20] <andypugh> If you are just wanting to have a 5V toggle, don't connect to 5V, let the internal pull-up do that
[21:37:43] <PCW> disconnect the 5V from the GPIO pin and see if it (still) toggles
[21:37:44] <A2Sheds> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_drain
[21:37:47] <andypugh> I think if you disconnect the wire from the pin to +5, it will all work (or, possibly, never work again)
[21:38:12] <grommit> Ok
[21:38:29] <A2Sheds> grommit: this is how the pullup is wired http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Logic_bus_example_-_with_pull-up_resistor.png
[21:38:39] <PCW> Well its through a 7I42(with 50 Ohms in series) so that helps a little
[21:38:43] <A2Sheds> what you did was short the resistor with a wire
[21:39:10] <grommit> I get it now.
[21:39:18] <grommit> Better late than never
[21:39:19] <A2Sheds> 100ma, not too bad
[21:39:55] <PCW> Yeah if you want a pullup, add a 1K or so external pullup (5V --> R--> GPIO41)
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[21:41:40] <grommit> ok thanks. will let you know if I need to order another card ;-)
[21:42:33] <PCW> Those FPGAs are pretty tough (but dont tie too many low outputs to 5V at once)
[21:42:35] <PCW> and most likely they will all go bad at once if abused
[21:42:37] <PCW>
[21:44:06] <Mjolinor> OK, Im impressed, from blank hard disk to cutting PCBs, 6 hours, took me longer than that to get openvpn working
[21:44:11] <grommit> ok, got to log off to shut off the offending power supply and reboot the numbskull who wired it...
[21:44:22] <Danimal_garage> ha
[21:44:24] <Mjolinor> happy puppy :)
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[21:45:32] <Danimal_garage> i was pretty sure that's what he did wrong, i think i did the same thing when i used opendrain for something
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[21:47:08] <A2Sheds> it's a bit confusing for non-engineers since it's sinking current vs supplying current, what most people think of
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[21:48:32] <Danimal_garage> yea, i'm definitely a non-electrical engineer
[21:49:12] <JT-Shop> I'm an electrical engineer sometimes... boy does that smart for a while :/
[21:49:24] <andypugh> I used to think TTL, +5V = true, 0V = false. It was a bit of a change to think in terms of sinking current, or not doing.
[21:49:45] <andypugh> I am not any kind of engineer, but don't tell my employer.
[21:49:57] <Danimal_garage> my boss is a dick
[21:50:19] <Tom_itx> self employed?
[21:50:22] <Tom_itx> :)
[21:50:32] <A2Sheds> thats what i thought
[21:50:53] <JT-Shop> my boss is a dumb ass
[21:51:03] <Tom_itx> don't tell your partner
[21:51:07] <Tom_itx> the 4legged one
[21:51:47] <JT-Shop> she will just grin and wag her tail... and make funny noises like she is trying to talk
[21:51:56] <Tom_itx> in agreement?
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[21:52:13] <andypugh> There are at least 2 layers of VPs between me and my boss, and I am not actually sure who the real boss is.
[21:52:15] <JT-Shop> I've not learned dog speak yet
[21:52:34] <andypugh> (not counting the other 6 layers of managers)
[21:52:49] <Tom_itx> you think there's enough managment there?
[21:53:16] <andypugh> 164,000 employees
[21:53:29] <Tom_itx> what industry?
[21:53:35] <andypugh> Making cars
[21:53:37] <Tom_itx> oh
[21:54:07] <Tom_itx> no wonder cars cost so much
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[21:54:42] <andypugh> Well, the cars from companies with fewer employees cost even more. Strange.
[21:55:01] <Danimal_garage> yep, self employed
[21:55:06] <Tom_itx> is the plant fully automated?
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[21:56:01] <andypugh> Which plant? (are you asking me, or Danimal?)
[21:56:12] <Tom_itx> you
[21:56:49] <andypugh> Most of the plants are fully automated, yes. They have plants all over the place.
[21:57:09] <Danimal_garage> what car manufacturer?
[21:57:12] <Danimal_garage> Rover? lol
[21:57:13] <andypugh> Ford
[21:57:15] <Danimal_garage> j/k
[21:57:18] <Danimal_garage> ah
[21:57:28] <A2Sheds> anyone know which robots they are installing at Foxconn? They said something around 1million over the next 5 years
[21:58:09] <Danimal_garage> andypugh: how do you feel about the newer fords?
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[21:58:22] <Danimal_garage> they seem to claim quality has improved
[21:58:22] <A2Sheds> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/08/foxconn-robots/
[21:59:02] <andypugh> Well, the ones from Europe are OK, I suppose. I don't like what I have seen of the US ones.
[21:59:43] <Danimal_garage> i've had a ton of fords, most older though
[22:00:00] <Danimal_garage> a bunch of rangers, and a Mustang
[22:00:32] <Danimal_garage> i just sold the mustang, i already miss it
[22:01:58] <A2Sheds> mustang, what year?
[22:02:16] <Danimal_garage> 99
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[22:02:54] <A2Sheds> I only restored 2, 69 convertible and 72 Mach-1
[22:03:12] <A2Sheds> long gone
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[22:03:41] <Danimal_garage> nice
[22:03:52] <Danimal_garage> i'm looking for a 62-67 nova now
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[22:04:13] <A2Sheds> Chevy-II, I liked those
[22:04:48] <andypugh> You car boys might like this then: http://www.americantorque.com/game/car-show-50s/
[22:05:09] <andypugh> Meself, I have never owned a car. Too many wheels.
[22:05:46] <Danimal_garage> i'm more into the 60's vintage than 50's
[22:06:11] <A2Sheds> I mostly restored Pontiacs 60 -74, GTO, Trans-am, firebird
[22:06:53] <A2Sheds> my favorite years for most cars
[22:07:34] <Danimal_garage> i want something light and smog exempt
[22:07:46] <Danimal_garage> so 75 and older
[22:08:05] <Danimal_garage> with a SBC
[22:08:08] <A2Sheds> did they keep making cars after 75?
[22:08:31] <Danimal_garage> ha
[22:09:35] <Danimal_garage> my only issue is the emense amount of money you have to dump into older cars to get them to take a corner
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[22:10:30] <A2Sheds> now I'm dabbling with 91-95 Land Cruisers
[22:10:38] <andypugh> Depends where the car came from. Try something mildly sporting from the UK.
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[22:11:44] <A2Sheds> back then Corvettes were the only ones with somewhat decent handling
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[22:13:02] <A2Sheds> from the US
[22:13:29] <Danimal_garage> there's not a single car from the uk built in the 60's still alive over here
[22:14:15] <A2Sheds> heh, reminds me of the Top Gear with the UK sports cars from the early 70's
[22:14:45] <Danimal_garage> ha
[22:14:48] <Danimal_garage> yea
[22:15:05] <andypugh> I was claiming that they cornered better than US cars, I wasn't claiming any other virtues, and certainly not corrosion-resistance
[22:15:26] <Mjolinor> corrosion resistance <<< oxymoron that when you are talking british
[22:15:44] <A2Sheds> How do you start a jaguar when it's raining?
[22:15:49] <andypugh> Not as bad as Lancia
[22:16:05] <A2Sheds> aaaaaahh Lancia
[22:16:28] <A2Sheds> did they even work when new?
[22:18:22] <andypugh> They were lovely cars, till they fell apart.
[22:20:12] <Tom_itx> where is that 'smart car' thing produced?
[22:20:28] <Tom_itx> isn't that german?
[22:20:39] <Danimal_garage> did you see the top gear when they took the land cruiser, suzuki, and range rover across south america?
[22:21:00] <Danimal_garage> Tom_itx: it's a mercedes
[22:21:24] <A2Sheds> http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads14/hummer_and_smart_car_01232177583.jpg
[22:21:30] <Mjolinor> designed in Switzerland, made my Mercedes
[22:21:44] <A2Sheds> for when the Hummer breaks
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[22:22:05] <andypugh> I like Smarts. Very roomy inside (due to not even attempting rear seats).
[22:22:19] <Tom_itx> what about baggage?
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[22:22:44] <Tom_itx> any compartment for that?
[22:22:44] <Tom_itx> i haven't looked at em
[22:22:47] <andypugh> Pretty good baggage space too.
[22:22:56] <Tom_itx> 3 cyl?
[22:23:11] <andypugh> Geneally 3 cyl, I think, yes.
[22:24:21] <andypugh> Here is a pic of the luggage space http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs31/f/2008/187/4/e/smart_box_set_by_RMClink.jpg
[22:24:21] <Danimal_garage> i always just want to flip those things over
[22:24:32] <Danimal_garage> shitty mileage for the size
[22:24:38] <Danimal_garage> useless imo
[22:24:39] <andypugh> Takes two suitcases comfortably
[22:24:54] <A2Sheds> IIRC it was a Grand Cherokee, Land Rover and Toyota across South America
[22:24:56] * Tom_itx gives Danimal_garage the hummer
[22:25:14] <Danimal_garage> nope it was a suzuki
[22:25:19] <andypugh> The diesels do pretty good mpg, but you aren't allowed diesels in the US>
[22:25:26] <Danimal_garage> i just watched it
[22:25:47] <Danimal_garage> samorai (sp)
[22:25:48] <Mjolinor> :o
[22:25:53] <Mjolinor> why no diesels in the US?
[22:26:00] <andypugh> Heck, even our Focus 2l diesels at work show 55mpg on the trip computer.
[22:26:07] <Danimal_garage> because they probably run dirty
[22:26:12] <Tom_itx> emissions?
[22:26:16] <A2Sheds> yeah, tough to even find used diesels here
[22:26:20] <Tom_itx> and surely not in Ca
[22:26:20] <Danimal_garage> yea
[22:26:34] <A2Sheds> even just engines
[22:26:40] <andypugh> Yeah, by the time you strap on enough stuff to get through IS NOx emissions, they don't really work.
[22:26:50] <Tom_itx> Ca is pretty laid back on everything but emissions it seems
[22:27:19] <A2Sheds> I was looking at VW diesel engines this summer, $500-1K for a core engine
[22:27:31] <A2Sheds> if you can find one
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[22:27:56] <andypugh> Diesles run hot, high compression and efficient. That makes NOx. Because a bunch of people live in a bowl in a desert it means everybody else who doesn't is stuck with very poor fuel economy.
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[22:28:33] <Mjolinor> if oyu paid as much for gas as us Brits do you would soon releive that particular inconveniance
[22:28:55] <Tom_itx> or go with 2 wheels
[22:29:16] <andypugh> I only get 45mpg out of my R1. But it's worth it.
[22:29:24] <Mjolinor> not sure thats good, my Citroen C3 does better than my HD sportster
[22:30:32] <skunkworks> we had a vw tdi - we wish we didn't sell it. (it had issues) but we get 40+mpg on our toyota corrola on long trips
[22:30:56] <skunkworks> must be with a tail wind
[22:30:57] <A2Sheds> I got 37mpg highway in a 1.6L 99 Sentra, I picked up for $1200 with 138k miles
[22:31:12] <andypugh> Oh, many cars are far less thirsty then the bike, but the bike makes up for it in other ways.
[22:31:31] <Tom_itx> bugs in your teeth?
[22:32:09] <Mjolinor> teeth aint a problem, it's the eyes that hurt
[22:32:10] <andypugh> I wear a ht
[22:32:15] <andypugh> a hat, even
[22:33:10] <Mjolinor> hmm, first issue of the day, Ubuntu hung shutting down :(
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[22:33:31] <A2Sheds> ~2L 4 cyl diesels are nearly impossible to find used in the midwest
[22:33:54] <Danimal_garage> my suv gets 30mpg highway
[22:34:24] <Danimal_garage> i'll give up a few mpg to have the extra room inside
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[22:35:28] <Danimal_garage> of course it isnt winning any races
[22:35:36] <Danimal_garage> 2.2l 4cyl
[22:38:55] <A2Sheds> 33mpg avg. with a 12 year old Nissan, the 2012 has the same mileage
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[22:41:20] <A2Sheds> a new Jetta TDI is only 42 mpg highway
[22:42:16] <A2Sheds> andypugh: what are you getting in mpg for the average economy car there?
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[22:43:35] <andypugh> 50-60mpg
[22:44:09] <A2Sheds> it's funny how they can't seem to make them here
[22:45:11] <andypugh> We do have bigger gallons.
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[22:46:00] <A2Sheds> 2012 Ford Fiesta 29/40mpg 1.6L
[22:46:24] <andypugh> Gasoline.
[22:46:39] <A2Sheds> yes, no diesel offered IIRC
[22:47:22] <A2Sheds> http://www.ford.com/cars/fiesta/specifications/engine/
[22:48:58] <andypugh> Fiesta 1.6 diesel claims 76.3mpg. http://cars.uk.msn.com/features/green-motoring/top-10-most-economical-cars
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[22:49:50] <A2Sheds> even the Hybrid Fusion has low mpg compared http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/specifications/engine/
[22:51:04] <A2Sheds> even if you factor the 16% smaller gallon
[22:51:09] <JT-Shop> the wife's Honda hybrid averages 40mpg when she drives
[22:52:02] <A2Sheds> why can't we buy the Fiesta here with the Diesel?
[22:52:18] <Danimal_garage> they're too dirty for the US
[22:53:44] <andypugh> They're not even really that dirty. They all have cats and exhaust filters now.
[22:54:29] <andypugh> But you basically can't get efficiency inside your NOx limits, because that demands low combustion temperature.
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[22:54:46] <Danimal_garage> i ordered new wheel bearings for my Saturn and they just came in, but they're the wrong ones.
[22:54:57] <Danimal_garage> They're for the ABS model, mine doesn't have ABS
[22:55:04] <Danimal_garage> wonder if i should just use them
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[22:55:31] <Danimal_garage> use the sensors for something on a machine lol
[22:56:27] <A2Sheds> CV shafts for the Saturn?
[22:57:04] <Danimal_garage> yea
[22:57:14] <Danimal_garage> fwd
[22:57:17] <JT-Shop> VW makes diesel cars in the US but they still only get 30-42mpg
[22:57:50] <A2Sheds> thats what my Diesel Jetta used to get
[22:58:12] <Danimal_garage> just get a diesel chevette
[22:58:33] <JT-Shop> or make a diesel bike
[22:58:37] <A2Sheds> what year saturn? I'd be surprised that they used different bearings
[22:58:38] <JT-Shop> from a lister
[22:58:46] <Danimal_garage> 2005
[22:59:05] <Danimal_garage> i think the only difference is the sensors for the abs
[22:59:17] <Danimal_garage> i can just take them out
[22:59:56] <A2Sheds> yes usually it is just the ring on the CV's, I'm surprised they did it on the bearings
[23:00:58] <Danimal_garage> yea me too
[23:01:01] <Danimal_garage> but it is
[23:01:06] <Danimal_garage> all consealed
[23:01:25] <A2Sheds> http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/shop_parts/wheel_bearing/saturn/l300.html
[23:01:26] <Danimal_garage> i remeber gm had issues in the past when it was exposed, maybe thats why they changed it
[23:01:50] <Danimal_garage> i got a hub assembly
[23:02:00] <A2Sheds> the easy way
[23:02:04] <Danimal_garage> not just the bearings
[23:02:07] <Danimal_garage> same price
[23:02:09] <Danimal_garage> why not
[23:02:18] <Danimal_garage> i got mine for $41 each shipped
[23:02:42] <A2Sheds> ok, then the ABS ring makes more sense
[23:03:03] <Danimal_garage> i have a vue, it's different anyways
[23:03:12] <Danimal_garage> it's an SUV
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[23:05:28] <A2Sheds> who is from Australia?
[23:05:53] <Danimal_garage> Australians
[23:06:14] <A2Sheds> heh, in the channel
[23:07:06] <Danimal_garage> Valen i think
[23:07:13] <A2Sheds> didn't somebody mold a epoxy/granite fixture for a spindle
[23:07:29] <JT-Shop> yea, I remember that a little
[23:08:09] <Danimal_garage> weird
[23:08:29] <A2Sheds> back to work here
[23:08:46] <Danimal_garage> i've been working this whole time!
[23:08:58] <Danimal_garage> :)
[23:09:14] <andypugh> I think Valen did the epoxy granite
[23:09:35] <Danimal_garage> i think it's beer o'clock
[23:10:14] <andypugh> Ah yes, here it is: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html
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[23:20:43] <Danimal_garage> thats pretty cool
[23:21:32] <A2Sheds> did the clocks change in the UK this passed weekend?
[23:21:41] <JT-Shop> I'm already past beer and working on wine
[23:22:12] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: i'm on number one
[23:22:35] <Danimal_garage> i'm still running machines so i can't go too crazy
[23:22:45] <Danimal_garage> cant afford too much scrap
[23:23:01] <JT-Shop> I'm on number 2
[23:23:05] <A2Sheds> or fewer fingers
[23:23:06] <Valen> wassat?
[23:23:16] <JT-Shop> it's Valen
[23:23:21] <Danimal_garage> fingers are overrated
[23:23:30] <Danimal_garage> i have 9.5 extras
[23:23:33] <Valen> we did an epoxy granite thing
[23:23:36] <A2Sheds> Valen: are you in Australia?
[23:23:40] <Valen> that too
[23:24:02] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html
[23:24:05] <A2Sheds> Melbourne or near?
[23:24:23] <Valen> sydney
[23:24:24] <A2Sheds> yeah , that was you
[23:25:23] <A2Sheds> Valen: are older CNC machines easy to come by there?
[23:25:31] <Valen> not at all
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[23:27:25] <JT-Shop> that was quite a bit of work to get the spindle changed
[23:27:54] <Danimal_garage> yea, i'd say
[23:28:15] <A2Sheds> Valen: if I needed a few machines there to build prototypes, should I plan on shipping a container full of equipment from the US?
[23:29:03] <Valen> how many machines?
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[23:29:51] <A2Sheds> couple mills, lathes, not too big
[23:30:23] <Valen> what are you trying to do?
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[23:32:56] <A2Sheds> have a machine shop to handle making protos, mostly aluminum, x-y stages, gantry's, positioners, linear motors
[23:33:45] <A2Sheds> robot integration etc
[23:34:16] <Valen> in any paticular rush for it?
[23:34:33] <Valen> you could perhaps just keep an eye on ebay or some of the auction sites
[23:34:46] <Valen> clean up when somebody closes down
[23:36:55] <A2Sheds> shipping a container full was only $3-4K last time I checked, but it's the import duty that might not be worth it
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[23:39:28] <Valen> still need to buy the machines too
[23:39:40] <Valen> or is that $4k for machines + shipping
[23:39:54] <A2Sheds> just shipping
[23:40:27] <A2Sheds> GST is 10%
[23:41:58] <A2Sheds> only 5% is there is no Australian made equivalent
[23:42:20] <Danimal_garage> opps i just burned water
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[23:44:58] <Danimal_garage> LOL someone just emailed me asking for a bulk discount if he orders 2 parts (not even the same parts)
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[23:45:57] <Tom_itx> heck that's bulk if you ask me
[23:46:07] <Valen> i'd suggest keeping an eye on greys or something lots of victorian places shutting down recently ;->
[23:46:07] <A2Sheds> are they large parts?
[23:46:16] <A2Sheds> maybe they meant bulky
[23:46:47] <A2Sheds> Valen: thanks
[23:46:48] <Danimal_garage> no, they're $40 parts, probably weigh 40g each
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[23:48:57] <JT-Shop> I love ngcgui
[23:49:26] <Tom_itx> i should install that
[23:49:31] <Tom_itx> to see if you're lying
[23:49:38] <JT-Shop> sounds like my neighbor the horse trader
[23:49:50] <Danimal_garage> i swear if it wasnt for the fact that for every person i piss off, they'd tell 20 of their friends, i'd have a few choice words for some people...
[23:50:02] <Danimal_garage> the fat ones in the trailer?
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[23:56:18] <JT-Shop> no he lives down the road a bit
[23:56:48] <Danimal_garage> ah
[23:56:50] <JT-Shop> the fat ones are black holes for government funds
[23:56:57] <Danimal_garage> ha
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