#emc | Logs for 2011-09-22

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[00:04:08] <andypugh> jimlay: We are mainly concerned with doing what you want to do using EMC2.
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[00:05:27] <jimlay> Tom_itx: The limeted gcode arduino lib is really built centered around extrusion and the reprap.
[00:05:54] <PCW> Andy: what did you want me to test with the latest 5I25 patch? 5I23 and 5I20 ( with very different configs work fine)
[00:06:18] <jimlay> I've been reading it's code and messing around trying to get the gui pc application to talk to it and I'm having lots of silly issues.
[00:06:52] <andypugh> PCW: Well, mainly that it also works with the 5i25 too. I have forgotten where we were with that. Is it pushed?
[00:07:19] <andypugh> jimlay: Any reason you are using Arduino and not EMC2?
[00:07:32] <jimlay> andypugh: I want to use EMc2 but I haven't gotten it to build.
[00:07:48] <jimlay> Downloading the livecd when I'm already running ubuntu feels like going backwards.
[00:08:05] <andypugh> Well, you need a patched kernel.
[00:08:15] <PCW> Yes it works with the 5I25, but i am just at the point of doing more 5I25 testing (I dont think its pushed)
[00:08:16] <andypugh> It won't build without that.
[00:08:17] <PCW> will report in 15 Mins
[00:08:36] <jimlay> and I've worked with realtime linux and always end up hating myself for it. :)
[00:09:05] <jimlay> I would find it very helpful if there was something on the website explaining "Why you absolutely must use realtime linux".
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[00:09:46] <jimlay> Because I understand the reason it's needed, but I don't understand why I can't compile with realtime turned off and bother with the realtime linux later.
[00:10:42] <Tom_itx> timing is why
[00:10:45] <jimlay> andypugh: In short to answer your question "why not emc2?" Because I can't run it without realtime patches, and that barrier to getting started is enough to make me go "There has to be a way that doesn't require realtime linux"
[00:11:02] <jimlay> Tom_itx: I understand that without it you'll get bad jitter problems.
[00:11:53] <andypugh> Well, there is, and you are using it. The problem is that if you come here looking for non-EMC2 ways to do things, you are unlikely to find much help
[00:12:24] <andypugh> jimlay: You can get the sim version of you want
[00:12:50] <andypugh> buildbot.linuxcnc.org, get one of the sim distros.
[00:13:58] <jimlay> Ok, thanks. I'm not so much looking for "non-EMC2" ways to do things as ways to do CNC in linux that are more accessable than requiring the kernel patches.
[00:14:04] <jimlay> Thanks. I'll check out the sim version.
[00:15:16] <andypugh> Well, the whole starting point of EMC (pre -2) was to prove that realtime Linux was a good basis for CNC control. It's a core assumption of the whole package.
[00:16:31] <Connor> jimlay: What's your aversion to RT Linux? I built a machine specifically for my cnc, $300.00 and installed the default distro.. no problems.
[00:19:02] <jimlay> maintainability. compatibility. RT linux is a pain in the arse to keep around. And I have a stack of computers I could throw together a dedicated machine and run the EMC2 if that is _really_ necesary.
[00:19:24] <andypugh> Hide a mini-itx in the cabinet, ssh into it, and nobody need know there is a PC in there.
[00:20:14] <Connor> It's not necessary, but, it's much better idea.. Less likely to have install stuff that could cause problems. a CNC isn't a toy. give it it's own machine and let that machine do that job.
[00:22:09] <jimlay> I'm gathering that if I take and have an arduino based controller connected VIA usb and can resolve the timing issues in software such that it doesn't need RT linux that wouldn't be useful.
[00:22:33] <Tom_itx> go for it
[00:22:43] <Tom_itx> you won't get much help here on it
[00:23:00] <andypugh> It might be useful for you, but it wouldn't tie in to EMC2 in any way.
[00:23:01] <Tom_itx> the reprap lib is all i know of
[00:23:26] <Connor> Well, what you MIGHT be able to do is use the Arduino to buffer it.. but, that's not a solution.. Heck if your going to go down that road, use RepRap Gcode stuff.
[00:23:29] <jimlay> To me the work flow should look like "apt-get install emc2", hook up somesort of USB microcontroller to operate the steppers and away you go.
[00:24:03] <jimlay> I have the reprap gcode stuff loaded, but the EMC2 looks much more like what I want.
[00:24:16] <Tom_itx> it's far more flexible
[00:24:17] <andypugh> You might be able to use some parts of EMC2 (it's open source, so you can) but it would be a whole different package, I think. You would probably need to move the trajectory controller onto the Arduino
[00:24:18] <jimlay> I'm trying to figure out just how wrong I am about needing RT linux.
[00:24:42] <Connor> okay, so, Dedicated RT Microcontroller, or Dedicated RT Computer. or some strange hybrid solution..
[00:25:21] <Connor> My take on something like this.. If it's a Machine Controller, it's dedicated. End of story. and because it's dedicated, running RT linux on it is the only way to go.
[00:25:38] <jimlay> Ok, one of my main questions I've been trying to figure out is whether EMC2 supports people making their own controller hardware and writing their own drivers and incorporating it to play nice with the rest of EMC2.
[00:25:53] <jimlay> Ok.
[00:26:07] <andypugh> Yes, I have written several drivers.
[00:26:15] <Connor> Well.. EMC2 uses parports. You can make your own hardware to drive steppers if you want.
[00:26:15] <jimlay> Sounds like the path of least resistence is to get EMC2 on an RT linux system.
[00:26:57] <andypugh> I wrote a driver for an old ISA card in a couple of hours using "comp", without ever seeing the card.
[00:26:58] <Connor> Yea, I installed it, and it just works. You can use it for surfing and IRC if you want...
[00:27:09] <Connor> I do sometimes when I'm working on stuff on it.
[00:27:35] <jimlay> How much contorting am I going to have to do to make an EMC2 driver that sends the step commands to my arduino or DAQ cards?
[00:28:07] <jimlay> andypugh: It sounds like I shouldn't have too much trouble writing a driver for my hardware (that doesn't use the parallel port) once I have EMC2 built and running on RT linux.
[00:28:11] <jimlay> I'll take that route then.
[00:28:35] <andypugh> USB isn't good for latency though.
[00:28:54] <Connor> What sort of CNC is this?
[00:29:21] <jimlay> I see what you mean about needing to offload the trajectory controller.
[00:30:06] <jimlay> 3 axis router. 30"x30"x12", with a dremmel mounted on the tool plate right now.
[00:30:15] <jimlay> *dremel.
[00:31:11] <PCW> Andy 5I25 seems fine with patch, 7I76 SSLBP now fails with unsupported sserial device error but I guess thats expected
[00:32:52] <andypugh> Yes, until I get the other cards supported, failure is the only option.
[00:33:04] <andypugh> Are they on their way yet?
[00:33:18] <Tom_itx> i thought the term was 'failure is not an option' :)
[00:33:38] <andypugh> I embrace failure.
[00:34:02] <PCW> at least it just bellyaches, its not fatal
[00:34:03] <PCW> Yes at long long last we will ship tomorrow (40 billion bugs)
[00:34:15] <Tom_itx> if i'm running 2.5 should i include emc in the regular package updates?
[00:34:25] * FinboySlick ended up ordering the Starrett stuff today, prays he doesn't drop those on the ground before even the first measure.
[00:35:39] <PCW> we can send 4 new sserial cards all support discovery and modes, plus 5I25 and 7I49
[00:35:50] <andypugh> jimlay: This forum thread goes through the writing of a new driver to suit unsupported hardware. http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,10910/catid,38/limit,6/limitstart,0/lang,english/#10910
[00:42:40] <PCW> We even have some mode with analog in on a few of the 7I70/7I76 digital inputs
[00:42:46] <PCW> modes
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[00:45:20] <andypugh> I don't think I need the 7i49, KimK has one, and most of a driver. (I need to chase him about that)
[00:46:34] <andypugh> And I think the 5i25 has been adequately tested too.
[00:46:39] <Tom_itx> is he a developer as well?
[00:47:13] <PCW> 7I76 is easiest to test with 5I25 was my thought
[00:47:31] <andypugh> OK, in that case, it probably makes sense to send one.
[00:48:19] <PCW> yeah it all just plugs together
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[00:58:55] <andypugh> OK, time I logged. I will look to push the 5i25 tomorrow.
[00:59:54] <PCW> Looks fine, and thanks!
[01:00:37] <andypugh> There is some 5i25 support in 2.5. I wonder what I changed?
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[01:01:07] <PCW> I think you cleaned up the pin naming stuff
[01:02:37] <davidf> OT, anyone got any idea why I can't run administrative tasks from a terminal unless I'm online? That seems scary!
[01:02:49] <andypugh> Ah, yes. Parport pins from lookup-table, and pins allocated earlier in the sequence
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[15:24:06] <stillme> no one here
[15:24:33] <archivist> none at all
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[15:30:38] <stillme> lol i was wondering why axis image to gcode takes an awful lot of time to convert image to gcode?
[15:31:06] <stillme> does anyone know how to speed it up??
[15:31:10] <cradek> because doing that is computationally expensive
[15:31:30] <cradek> check your settings and be sure your resolution is as low as possible
[15:31:46] <cradek> you might be using an inappropriate image, for instance
[15:33:19] <stillme> how do you mean by resolution low as possible?
[15:33:37] <stillme> in appropriate image??
[15:33:53] <stillme> i thought higher resolution images result in better output?
[15:38:39] <cradek> that may be true, but do you see there's a tradeoff? Time spent calculating in resolution that your machinery can't reproduce is wasted.
[15:39:03] <cradek> resolution that your machinery *or material* can't reproduce
[15:39:49] <stillme> yes i see that.
[15:39:51] <cradek> if you're cutting foam or wood, .025" grid might be plenty good enough
[15:40:32] <stillme> i just noticed most lithophanes and engraved pictures were cut from about 400x300pixel
[15:40:37] <cradek> also, calculation time is probably dwarfed by cutting time
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[15:41:05] <stillme> yes i was wondering how much it would take it to cut
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[15:41:25] <stillme> my image was 3000x4000 pixel
[15:41:54] <stillme> axis has been calculating for close to 2hrs now
[15:41:55] <cradek> it's no wonder that calculating paths over it is slow then
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[15:42:13] <cradek> what stepover did you use?
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[15:42:31] <stillme> 0.02 mm
[15:43:18] <cradek> what material are you cutting, and what size cutter?
[15:43:27] <cradek> and how large?
[15:43:51] <stillme> i want to cut 250x250mm
[15:44:00] <stillme> 1mm ball nose
[15:44:13] <stillme> perspex
[15:44:51] <stillme> so what image size is ideal??
[15:44:59] <stillme> 400x600??
[15:45:07] <stillme> or lower?
[15:45:11] <archivist> think about that .02mm above and a 1mm tool, you cannot cut that detail
[15:45:31] <cradek> you do realize you asked for 12500 passes which is over 3 km of total tool travel?
[15:45:54] <cradek> how long does your machine take to move 3km?
[15:45:59] <stillme> wow
[15:46:24] <archivist> will the tool be worn out after the first 10 metres
[15:46:26] <cradek> I suppose it could be 6, 12, or 24km depending on which other options you chose
[15:46:44] <stillme> ohh i see
[15:47:05] <cradek> so my advice for speeding up the operation is still to make the settings appropriate :-)
[15:47:07] <stillme> so i have to reduce the image resolution to about what??
[15:47:36] <stillme> yea i understand but i dont have a tool smaller than 1mm
[15:48:05] <cradek> try keeping the image, but setting appropriate stepovers etc
[15:48:30] <cradek> if that's still slow, rescale the image so you have a handful of pixels worth of resolution per stepover
[15:49:13] <stillme> is there a guide that shows how to set right values for these things?
[15:49:38] <cradek> there are docs for image-to-gcode, but to choose correct numbers you still have to use your head
[15:49:53] <cradek> they are options for a reason - there's no one correct setting
[15:51:22] <stillme> let me get it right, the higher the stepover, the less detail??
[15:53:40] <cradek> yes
[15:54:29] <stillme> and the lower the stepover, the more calculation time??
[15:54:39] <stillme> makes sense
[15:54:41] <cradek> yes
[15:56:15] <stillme> i want to give it another try, i spent the whole day trying to get the output of image to gcode
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[18:47:33] <Jymmm> Free machine shop stuff (BP power feeds) http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/zip/2602413292.html
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[20:20:33] <syyl> tried trochoidalmilling today...pretty primitive attempt
[20:20:38] <syyl> but it worked :D
[20:20:56] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hwvuyHa1lQ
[20:21:19] <syyl> 3mm endmill, 6mm deep, 6mm wide slot, 3000rpm, 400mm/min feed
[20:21:38] <syyl> 0,1mm stepover
[20:22:26] <syyl> pretty interesting, as you can cut a very deep slot with a small cutter and have no problems with chips
[20:24:26] <andypugh> What is "trochoidal" about it?
[20:26:06] <ries> andypugh: http://www.secotools.com/en/Global/Services--Support/Tool-Selection-Support/Trochoidal-Milling/
[20:27:27] <andypugh> It looks more circular than trochoidal.
[20:27:36] <syyl> it IS circular ;)
[20:27:50] <syyl> but the strategy doesnt seem to be very far apart from it
[20:28:09] <syyl> (i dont aim for speed)
[20:28:23] <Tom_itx> very efficient?
[20:28:38] <cradek> climb milling might have been better?
[20:28:44] <syyl> yeah
[20:28:50] <syyl> sure
[20:29:07] <syyl> little mistake ;)
[20:29:29] <syyl> its not very efficient, i think
[20:29:50] <syyl> but i dont wear the cutter on the tip only, if i cut a deep slot in a hard material this way
[20:30:16] <Tom_itx> more chatter with a deeper cut
[20:30:27] <andypugh> I have done it myself, I just didn't know that was what I was doing :-)
[20:31:17] <Tom_itx> ok as a matter of discussion... how wide and deep a cut do you use for an endmill?
[20:31:22] <Tom_itx> 3/4 the diameter?
[20:31:26] <Tom_itx> more?
[20:31:28] <Tom_itx> less?
[20:31:42] <tom3p> did you write a macro ( o-word) sub for the shape? its a clearing method for a 'narrow' slot right?
[20:32:09] <Tom_itx> i realize alot depends on the process and type of cutter...
[20:32:11] <Tom_itx> but in general
[20:32:18] <syyl> i am in the experimental phase ;)
[20:32:27] <Tom_itx> andy?
[20:32:31] <syyl> ah
[20:32:38] <Tom_itx> or anybody
[20:32:41] <syyl> yes tom3
[20:33:00] <andypugh> I just write G-code by hand.
[20:33:57] <syyl> did it that way
[20:33:57] <syyl> http://pastebin.com/h3i4QkyZ
[20:36:22] <tom3p> neat, looking to the code, wondered why 1st want g91, doh! ok 1st doesnt need it
[20:36:39] <tom3p> wasnt
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[21:08:22] <jthornton> oh the joy of a 48Kbps connection
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[21:14:58] <jthornton> anyone have a source for metric v belt sheave dimensions?
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[21:18:52] <andypugh> Do they exist?
[21:19:30] <jthornton> dang if I know, I'm trying to figure out what belt is proper for my Samson lathe and also order or make a new motor sheave
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[21:20:24] <jthornton> the one on the input shaft looks to be 15mm across the top of the v groove
[21:20:43] <jthornton> the B section belt is for sure not the proper belt for that
[21:21:25] <andypugh> Even in the UK we use Z A B and C
[21:21:41] <andypugh> Though my lathe had an M6 belt (which broke)
[21:22:33] <jthornton> the A is 13mm across the top but I don't know what the v groove dimensions are for that belt
[21:23:22] <andypugh> http://www.speedcontrolinc.com/catalog/Section1_MetricVBelts.pdf
[21:24:30] <andypugh> (No angle data)
[21:24:58] <jthornton> still loading here at 48Kbps
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[21:27:48] <jthornton> I may end up welding up the missing chunk of the double row sheave and turning it back to shape
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[21:32:12] <andypugh> jthornton: http://www.vbeltsupply.com/spmetricv-belts.html might be a bit more lightweight
[21:33:09] <jthornton> I have that page open lol it still doesn't help me id the sheave and the other page finally loaded too
[21:33:53] <jthornton> I'm trying some different searches
[21:35:00] <jthornton> I'll go look in the machinist handbook and see if they shed some light on it
[21:35:52] <jthornton> I'll keep the dial up open in case you find something
[21:36:39] <andypugh> Machinery's Handbook says 34 degrees for 4" to 4" pulleys, 36 degrees for 4" to 6" pulleys and 38 degrees over 6"
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[21:57:25] <jthornton> i only saw std and narrow belts in my handbook
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[21:58:54] <elmo40> aaawww, I drool! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_PA9eUd5tA
[21:59:07] <elmo40> 5-axis laser :D
[21:59:10] <jthornton> I think my best bet is to take it down to the hardware store and try it on different belts
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[21:59:33] <jthornton> no pu-tube for me on dial up :/
[22:00:02] <jthornton> thanks for looking Andy
[22:00:32] <elmo40> try this: http://tinyurl.com/4xpz4hn
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[22:04:30] <andypugh> elmo40: The test-piece is quite a construction in itself.
[22:14:06] <andypugh> jthornton: http://www.randakks.com/Randakk%27s%20Endurance%20Special.htm
[22:16:07] <Jymmm> LOL http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/zip/2612263395.html
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[22:20:15] <jthornton> best I can measure it is 40°
[22:21:16] <andypugh> It is more likely 38 degrees. Perhaps it has worn?
[22:22:45] <jthornton> perhaps is it worn a bit, but I just can't get a 19° from horizontal on the side
[22:23:03] <jthornton> and it is only 3.25" or so 80mm
[22:23:43] <jthornton> but it doesn't look worn as the sides would not be straight
[22:24:56] * jthornton still waits for the GL1000 photos to load... but it looks nice on top
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[22:26:03] <andypugh> I like it. And that's saying something.
[22:27:15] <jthornton> and it is classic Honda red
[22:27:49] <andypugh> It's actually genuine Ferrari Rosso Corsa red
[22:28:27] * jthornton still waits for the web page to load
[22:29:28] <jthornton> my '56 Ferguson matches a Porsche color
[22:29:47] <andypugh> Porsche Agricultural Grey?
[22:30:06] <jthornton> no a cream color
[22:30:19] <andypugh> Your Fergie is broken :-)
[22:30:31] <jthornton> in 55 and 56 the F40's are cream and grey
[22:30:42] <jthornton> it ain't a Fergie lol
[22:30:47] <elmo40> that is a beautiful motorcycle :)
[22:31:27] <elmo40> back when bikes had character
[22:32:05] <elmo40> but what is 'stock' ? I see so much in the aftermarket
[22:32:29] <andypugh> Almost none of that bike is stock.
[22:32:36] <elmo40> frame?
[22:32:44] <elmo40> tank?
[22:32:49] <jthornton> the foot pegs look stock
[22:32:54] <andypugh> Forks seem to be. They look like noodles
[22:33:03] <jthornton> don't think so
[22:33:04] <elmo40> not original, but stock.
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[22:34:04] <andypugh> Hmm, My Ner-a-Car is 200cc. I wonder if the GasGas 200cc engine would be a compatible upgrade :-)
[22:34:52] <jthornton> just put a GL1800 engine in it... that would turn some heads or a lister diesel
[22:35:41] <elmo40> nope, footpegs are from a newer CBR1000 :P
[22:35:44] <jthornton> this one has almost a proper paint job http://home.comcast.net/~jkbailey16801/ferguson/graphics/ferg40.jpg
[22:36:00] <andypugh> This is the same model as mine, but less rusty, and distributed into fewer boxes. http://www.bikeexif.com/1921-ner-a-car
[22:37:51] <andypugh> I really ought to settle down to starting that project.
[22:38:10] <jthornton> is your engine in shape for overhaul?
[22:38:27] <andypugh> I have three, and they all seem OK
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[22:39:48] <andypugh> It's quite a deep restoration needed. Step 1: Unrivet the chassis..
[22:41:31] <jthornton> hot rivets used?
[22:41:36] <jthornton> or aluminum
[22:43:17] <elmo40> where would you get tyres for it?
[22:43:35] <jthornton> what is a tyre
[22:43:45] <jthornton> LOL just kidding
[22:45:55] <andypugh> Probably hot-riveted, yes. Certainly steel.
[22:47:03] <jthornton> that would be a chore to unrivet without damaging the surrounding metal
[22:47:17] <andypugh> Beaded-edge tyres are still made for veteran bikes. http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/26x2%201__2%20Ensign%20Tyre.html for example.
[22:49:44] <jthornton> seems like for belts used over here Included Belt Angle for all above belts is approximately 40 degrees. "
[22:50:15] <andypugh> Interesting.
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[22:54:38] <jthornton> funny thing is all the fasteners are inch on that lathe... so you would think the motor would be inch but it has a 28mm shaft
[22:55:21] * jthornton goes to start the tacos
[22:55:59] <andypugh> Remeber, the US is more officially metric than the UK :-)
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[23:14:36] <Tom_itx> jthornton, stock drive products may list sheave dimensions
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[23:19:57] <elmo40> isn't 28mm roughly 63/64? ;) 28/25.4
[23:20:02] <elmo40> oops
[23:20:17] <elmo40> I forgot something
[23:20:28] <elmo40> 25/25.4
[23:21:23] <elmo40> lol... silly me
[23:21:36] <elmo40> metric is a hassle for me, even though I am Canadian :P
[23:22:22] <Tom_itx> cm *.3937008 = inch
[23:22:24] <elmo40> and it is quite odd, only my most recent place of employment uses it, and they make parts for american engineering firms
[23:23:14] <elmo40> but his is mm, so it will be 0.03937007874015748031496062992126
[23:23:18] <Tom_itx> inch * 25.4 = cm
[23:23:25] <andypugh> I don't mind you using inches, but please stop using fractions...
[23:23:44] <Tom_itx> you do, it's just all by 10
[23:24:11] <andypugh> Well, yes, but you keep changing the basis
[23:24:33] <Tom_itx> we are rather complex
[23:24:37] <andypugh> I have no idea if 67/128" is more or less than 3/8"
[23:24:58] <andypugh> And, I doubt you do either, without converting to decimal.
[23:25:37] <Tom_itx> mul 3/8 x 16
[23:25:52] <Tom_itx> gives you a common fraction
[23:26:08] <Tom_itx> 3/8 is smaller
[23:26:12] <andypugh> Yes, and _without_ a computer?
[23:26:28] <Tom_itx> simple headwork
[23:26:47] <andypugh> So why did you use a computer?
[23:26:59] <Tom_itx> you can't prove a thing
[23:27:02] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:27:42] <Tom_itx> fractions are used mostly in construction, not machine work
[23:27:43] <Tom_itx> here
[23:28:16] <andypugh> I actually quite like inches. I would be happy enough with the inch as a base unit, with kilo-inches for big stuff. (Mainly because I machine in millinches in my head)
[23:28:28] <Tom_itx> for a 3/8 endmill i still think of it in thousandths
[23:28:57] <andypugh> Though I am baffled as to why you use "mil" to mean "micro-inch"
[23:29:01] <Tom_itx> however, my cad cam doesn't care how i enter it
[23:29:13] <Tom_itx> mil is thousandths
[23:29:19] <Tom_itx> and i don't either
[23:29:58] <Tom_itx> mostly used in measuring sheet or in electronic cad work
[23:30:10] <Tom_itx> like mylar sheet etc
[23:31:25] <andypugh> You are quite right, I have been labouring under a misapprehension for years. A "mil" is a "milli-inch" and perfectly sensible.
[23:31:47] <Tom_itx> i steer from that term if possible
[23:32:02] <elmo40> Tom_itx: why would you do cm *.3937008 = inch? it isn't more or less precise then mm/25.4=inch In my shop we only go as low as +/-0.01mm
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[23:32:29] <Tom_itx> i suppose you could
[23:33:55] <andypugh> 25.4 is exactly correct, and has fewer digits to remember.
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[23:36:29] <andypugh> Interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_mil "A Landrover is 1 finger wide at 100m"
[23:37:16] <PCW> andy: freeby.mesanet.com/SVSS6_8.BIT = rev 28 SSLBP
[23:38:50] <andypugh> Which in turn led me to "All vital screw slots on the telescopic sight are designed to be operated with .338 Lapua Magnum cartridges instead of screwdrivers."
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[23:40:28] <jdhNC> most of mine work will with .45acp cartridges though a rimmed case might be easier.
[23:40:28] <Tom_itx> kiss tech
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[23:43:17] <Tom_L> http://www.youtube.com:80/watch_popup?v=lgwF8mdQwlw&feature=player_embedded
[23:43:24] <Tom_itx> kindof ot but fun to watch
[23:49:11] <andypugh> I suspect fewer than the normal number of fasteners
[23:49:18] <Tom_itx> no
[23:49:26] <Tom_itx> they were built for field service
[23:50:30] <andypugh> Yes but they had more than 2 wheel nuts, rear spring shackles, fuel tanks not mounted on the engine, instruments....
[23:51:22] <andypugh> It's a nice trick, but it would dismantle far faster on the first bump.
[23:55:01] <Tom_itx> we watched a model T assembly at a local car show in a similar manner in 8.5 min
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[23:57:58] <andypugh> And, again, I suspect not from individual components, and not with all the bolts.
[23:58:13] <andypugh> Heck, it takes a day so split-pin our 1916 fire engine.
[23:59:06] <andypugh> (Fit bolt, tighten, find thicker washer, try again...)