#emc | Logs for 2011-09-06

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[00:05:40] <Jymmm> Do you guys still have (non automotive) junk yards in your area? Sorta like surplus, but more than just electronic/military stuff
[00:06:14] <Jymmm> maybe industrial, medical, electrical, etc
[00:08:21] <andypugh> Miitary yes
[00:08:54] <Tom_itx> we had boeing surplus until they pulled outta town
[00:09:16] <andypugh> I used to know a second-hand control-gear place, and several used tooling shops
[00:09:51] <andypugh> That was in Shefffield, Basildon is not really that sort of town.
[00:10:11] <Jymmm> Yeah, I used to know an electrical surplus, *poof* gone
[00:10:28] <Jymmm> 50KV transformers etc
[00:13:21] <Tom_itx> ww2 & army surplus but it's small
[00:14:48] <andypugh> Actually, thinking about it, I have bought from a couple of such places locally. The difference is that the goods were listed on eBay.
[00:15:03] <andypugh> But both turned out the be warehouses full of "stuff"
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[00:16:05] <andypugh> The place I bought the pull-lift from I was tripping over badly drilled-into machine vices and 25mm lathe tool shanks (badly worn)
[00:16:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'm always on the lookout for places like that. I *USED* to hit the goodwill stores, but they are just way overpriced now, almost retail for used stuff.
[00:21:08] <Tom_itx> the good surplus we had still has alot of metal (mostly aluminum) but inside where they had all sorts of cool stuff is mostly crap now
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[00:34:55] <andypugh> There was a titanium-only scrapyard in Sheffield too.
[00:35:24] <Tom_itx> boeing surplus had some but not alot
[00:48:28] <andypugh> Night all
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[02:36:07] <nicko> this 'robot' here:
[02:36:08] <nicko> http://www.kuka-robotics.com/en/pressevents/news/NN_060515_Automatica_02.htm
[02:36:32] <nicko> they say "Besides position and velocity mode the robot can be used in a torque-controlled manner. Especially the torque-controlled mode opens new fields of application."
[02:36:52] <elmo40> umm, k?
[02:37:00] <nicko> What is it about toque mode that open new fields of operation ?
[02:37:09] <elmo40> machining?
[02:37:14] <elmo40> not just pick-and-place
[02:37:41] <nicko> but don't we operate some mills in velocity mode ?
[02:38:35] <elmo40> with ball screws... torque is a given. Robots use harmonic gear drives, maybe torque is substituted for speed.
[02:38:48] <elmo40> can't have both is a smallform factor like that one in the link
[02:39:04] <A2Sheds> Kuka invents new marketing terms
[02:39:42] <nicko> so we can use it for machining now but we cant use it for machining now ?
[02:40:14] <elmo40> after the engineers are done making it, the marketers and accountants come to mess with your minds
[02:40:29] <elmo40> just read the specs of it and come up with your own conclusions
[02:40:40] <nicko> I have a conceptual block when it comes to servo systems ...
[02:41:58] <A2Sheds> I can't stand dealing with my Kuka sales rep, he'd try to sell you a robot with all kinds of wild claims
[02:42:01] <nicko> when they say "torque-controlled manner" - that's one the mes with my mind moments
[02:42:55] <A2Sheds> nicko: tell them you only understand physics and terms used by mechanical engineers :)
[02:43:10] <A2Sheds> that tends to shut them up
[02:43:15] <nicko> I try to simplify things in my head - but I'm not sure if it's right or not ... you have a thing, its got to go from A to B over a period T with a velocity profile
[02:43:29] <nicko> you give it a crack (i.e. apply power)
[02:43:50] <nicko> you sense your progress - and adjust accordingly
[02:44:07] <nicko> until certain parameters/tolerances are met ...
[02:44:10] <nicko> simple
[02:45:05] <nicko> its interesting seeing them turn up in places that market them as their own invention:
[02:45:06] <nicko> http://www.cmocos.com/
[02:45:36] <elmo40> what is it you want the robot to do?
[02:45:57] <nicko> I want to try to prove that it cant do something actually ;)
[02:46:04] <elmo40> lol
[02:46:18] <nicko> which is what these folk are saying it can do:
[02:46:19] <nicko> http://www.cmocos.com/
[02:46:29] <nicko> or at least implying
[02:47:19] <elmo40> so they added a robot arm to wheels and put on a camera. woop-de-doo
[02:47:41] <A2Sheds> I saw that in a movie once
[02:48:10] <nicko> yup - woop-de-doo
[02:48:15] <A2Sheds> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091949/
[02:49:07] <nicko> Johnny 5 (short circuit) was designed by Syd Mead
[02:49:13] <nicko> blade runner and so on
[02:49:22] <nicko> they are remaking the film at the moment
[02:49:26] <nicko> SAME robot ;)
[02:50:07] <nicko> I don't know the terminology - degrees of freedom and so on
[02:50:39] <Tom_itx> is that number of joints?
[02:50:45] <nicko> but putting a camera on the end of that thing is going to be a mess of inverse kinematics fun
[02:51:07] <nicko> say with a milling cutter - you're free to rotate about the rotational axis of the cutter
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[02:51:27] <nicko> but with a camera you're stuck having to keep a horizon
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[02:52:38] <nicko> I can see it getting twisted around itself and what would be a much simpler one axis move would involve the whole dang thing snaking around itself at near max velocity
[02:52:57] <elmo40> same with welding robots. can't just spin anything anyway and keep the same point. have to keep certain angles to make a proper weld. software calculations. simple ;)
[02:53:29] <nicko> welding I guess you have the offset issue
[02:53:36] <elmo40> ya, that is what happens some times. you will see the other 5 axis just spin and contort just to keep the 6th in the 'plane' that you need it in
[02:53:53] <nicko> the controlled point has a length in some regards
[02:54:25] <nicko> is gimbal lock the right term for when it actually fails ?
[02:55:17] <elmo40> I think that works.
[02:55:53] <A2Sheds> nicko: how are you planning on using it with a camera? what application? if it's not secret
[02:56:55] <nicko> I'm not planing to use it - I'm planning to sell the concept for a version of the alternative set up for these machines
[02:57:02] <nicko> yes, a camera
[02:57:06] <A2Sheds> I'm working on a controller for stereo smart cameras, they are currently mounted on scissor type lifts
[02:57:55] <nicko> what is a smart camera ? ... I only understand physics and terms used by mechanical engineers ;)
[02:59:29] <nicko> scissor type lifts ... I've been in a same room as people using vertical sliders (counterweighted)
[02:59:42] <A2Sheds> heh, cameras with computers and DSP in them that perform some processing such as compression, averaging, non-linear filtering, etc. typical image processing
[03:00:23] <nicko> most digital cameras have onboard debayering and sharpening and so on ...
[03:00:49] <nicko> controller for what though ? the lifts ? the cameras ?
[03:00:53] <A2Sheds> there are stereo vision systems with 24 -48 cameras
[03:01:38] <nicko> to extract 3D data you mean ? as in spatial data
[03:01:48] <A2Sheds> controller for the cameras
[03:02:00] <nicko> sounds interesting
[03:02:04] <nicko> I love cameras
[03:03:01] <nicko> seems like there is heeeaaaaaappps of stuff left to discover - which is to say, big things - not just incremental improvent
[03:03:38] <A2Sheds> they usually want to reduce the raw data from the sensors so the network bandwidth is less and so when the images get to the main system some of the image processing is already done
[03:03:56] <elmo40> but they are usually different systems, no?
[03:05:48] <nicko> big sprawling topic
[03:06:41] <A2Sheds> I haven't seen them use robot arms yet, the current systems are scissor lifts with cameras on rotary tables
[03:13:35] <A2Sheds> I'm wondering what applications http://www.cmocos.com/ is targeting
[03:14:52] <nicko> straight up cine motion control
[03:15:00] <nicko> repeat pass effects
[03:15:07] <nicko> motion time lapse
[03:15:25] <nicko> dangerous environment use
[03:16:17] <nicko> pre-programming camera motion
[03:16:26] <nicko> lots of usage
[03:16:33] <A2Sheds> how many do you want and when do you want them?
[03:18:30] <nicko> I want to *sell* a million of them today -
[03:19:45] <nicko> What most people who deal with these arms for typical industrial use don't understand is the ability of the people that end up using them
[03:20:05] <nicko> they need a user interface that speaks thier language
[03:20:34] <nicko> which usually means about %90 of the capability of the machine has been made redundant
[03:20:37] <A2Sheds> my first thought was getting the robot software to talk to something a camera operator can deal with
[03:20:51] <nicko> yes
[03:21:01] <nicko> it's the place to start
[03:21:07] <alex4nder> hey
[03:21:38] <A2Sheds> Powerglove!
[03:21:50] <nicko> flex sensors ?
[03:21:58] <nicko> no, been tried
[03:22:08] <nicko> they are good however for animatronics
[03:22:28] <A2Sheds> hand puppet was to difficult to operate?
[03:22:42] <A2Sheds> too/to
[03:22:52] <nicko> animatronics are usually small
[03:23:01] <nicko> no not an issue in animatronics
[03:23:13] <nicko> (except 1:1 dinosaurs)
[03:23:18] <nicko> but with cameras
[03:23:19] <A2Sheds> flight stick?
[03:23:32] <A2Sheds> seems pretty intuitive
[03:24:20] <A2Sheds> well closer to helicopter controls
[03:24:30] <nicko> of the real time / direct UI's - just fore and after proportional buttons and big brass wheels like they had on cannons (but with encoders)
[03:24:32] <A2Sheds> since you need to pull back as well
[03:25:33] <nicko> but what you gotta realise is that no one wants some twenty year old playing grand theft auto with a 250,000K camera stuck on the end of it
[03:26:05] <nicko> often, the simpler the better
[03:26:20] <nicko> as in program the moves in a virtual environment before hand
[03:26:47] <nicko> then push it out to the real world once you're ready
[03:27:50] <nicko> I guess thats where powergloves and nostril-wiggle sensors come into play
[03:29:32] <A2Sheds> they let 20 somethings control million dollar drones in the military
[03:30:18] <A2Sheds> I guess you can't court-marshal somebody on a film set
[03:30:28] <A2Sheds> for goofing around
[03:30:58] <nicko> military budget faaaaaaaar exceeds that of the film industry
[03:31:24] <nicko> ha, maybe not
[03:33:33] <nicko> you could always put the 20 somethings on the damn thing: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Robocoaster.jpg
[03:35:10] <A2Sheds> I'm waiting for the video of the runaway robot smacking them down to the pavement
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[03:39:41] <A2Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXQRkAqtEEU&NR=1&feature=fvwp
[03:44:24] <A2Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xW6YGK7KXY robot meets crash test dummy, I'm picturing this on a movie set
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[04:00:36] <nicko> I would have bet $10 that oud found this one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoA-m5iHG9s
[04:07:10] <A2Sheds> I wouldn't even ride in one made by Staubli (if they had one large enough) let alone ABB or Kuka
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[04:13:51] <A2Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxZ5n2tnqOU&feature=related
[04:17:09] <A2Sheds> my favorite robot spoof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJZVZFRFJc
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[04:47:56] <pyrojon> i am having a very difficult time with my step motors locking up during jobs. i think I may have my speed and acceleration setings wrong but I really don't know how to determine the correct settings. can anyone help?
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[06:45:04] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:57:39] <IG-garage> morning
[06:58:42] * IG-garage watches some porn video
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[07:06:15] <jvmguy> I'm having a build problem. Can someone help? I'm on a vanilla ubuntu 10.4, added emc per directions, got the source and build deps, but configure says it's missing the required GL library.
[07:06:42] <jvmguy> checking for glBegin in -lGL... no
[07:06:42] <jvmguy> configure: error: Required GL library missing. Install it, or specify --disable-python to skip the parts of emc2 that depend on Python
[07:09:06] <archivist> were there error messages when getting build deps
[07:10:08] <jvmguy> no, no errors getting build deps.
[07:11:16] <jvmguy> I've looked at the symbols for /usr/lib/libgl* and /usr/lib/libGL* and there's not glBegin anywhere.
[07:12:16] <jvmguy> or not defined anywhere. There's refs in /usr/lib/libGLU.a
[07:12:24] <IG-garage> look for this file o the internet. what package can contain it?
[07:13:20] <jvmguy> If I knew that I'd just apt-get it.
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[07:17:04] <jvmguy> is this the right place for emc dev questions?
[07:17:13] <IG-garage> Uswe Ubuntu package search
[07:17:20] <IG-garage> yes
[07:17:40] <IG-garage> Although it's night at the EMC's developers
[07:18:12] <psha[work]> jvmguy: libgl1-mesa-dev or libgl1-mesa-swx11-dev
[07:18:52] <psha[work]> you may check all build-deps in debian/control.in file
[07:18:56] <psha[work]> or just run apt-get build-dep emc2
[07:19:28] <jvmguy> kev33@lead:~/sandbox/emc2/emc2-2.4.6/src$ sudo apt-get build-dep emc2
[07:19:28] <jvmguy> Reading package lists... Done
[07:19:28] <jvmguy> Building dependency tree
[07:19:28] <jvmguy> Reading state information... Done
[07:19:29] <jvmguy> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[07:19:29] <jvmguy> kev33@lead:~/sandbox/emc2/emc2-2.4.6/src$
[07:20:29] <psha[work]> ok, do you have one of libgl1-mesa*-dev packages?
[07:20:32] <jvmguy> I suspect the build deps might be broken, but of course it could be something messed up with my machine.
[07:20:41] <psha[work]> and libglu1-mesa-dev
[07:20:55] <jvmguy> Yes, I have libgl1-mesa-dev.
[07:21:24] <psha[work]> do you have fglrx/nvidia blob drivers?
[07:21:42] <IG-garage> blob?
[07:22:05] <IG-garage> "Be Loyal Or Betray"-type of drivers?
[07:22:05] <psha[work]> IG-garage: propriatary binary drivers from ati(amd)/nvidia
[07:22:11] <IG-garage> oh, sure
[07:23:25] <jvmguy> I have the nvidia drivers on this machine. (for dev, not for running emc).
[07:25:48] <psha[work]> i don't know if they may interfere since glBegin is one of most basic GL functions...
[07:32:46] <jvmguy> psha -- sounds like a good theory.
[07:33:26] <psha[work]> however usually emc2 and blob drivers hate each other
[07:41:59] <elmo40> some of the best latency times I have received are from mobo's that use onboard Intel video
[07:59:38] <jvmguy> I think the problem is in the configure script. glBegin is in libGLU, not libGL.
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[15:04:14] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270808621670
[15:04:19] <jdhNC> are those useful fo ranything?
[15:06:14] <awallin_> could be, if you figure out the pinout
[15:06:31] <awallin_> if it's some proprietary serial protocol then forget it
[15:09:06] <archivist> you have a few minutes to google the part number
[15:10:57] <jdhNC> DRC sounded familiar, not for good reasons though.
[15:11:24] <jdhNC> I have a bunch of them here, wires are CW, CCW, Z, B, 5v, Gnd
[15:11:31] <jdhNC> dunno what B is
[15:12:31] <JT-Shop> can someone with better math skills check this to see if I'm cutting at 3/4" per foot angle for NPT? http://www.linuxcnc.org/images/fbfiles/files/ntp.ngc
[15:17:00] <JT-Shop> brb
[15:19:48] <archivist> I was expecting to see the 3/4 or .75 in there
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[16:01:49] <JT-Shop> the angle is 1.7899 as I recall
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[16:36:55] <Danimal_garage> hi
[16:37:01] <JT-Shop> hi Dan
[16:37:12] <Danimal_garage> Hi John
[16:37:14] <Danimal_garage> how goes it
[16:37:40] <JT-Shop> I'm pulling up carpet in the living room and putting a floating floor back in... other than that I'm ok
[16:37:53] <JT-Shop> did you see the npt sub?
[16:38:14] <Danimal_garage> yuck, i hate laying flooring
[16:38:17] <Danimal_garage> nope
[16:38:22] <Danimal_garage> did it work out?
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[16:38:27] <JT-Shop> snap lock should go ok
[16:38:41] <JT-Shop> seemed to just trying to get someone to check my coding
[16:38:53] <JT-Shop> 10:13 JT-Shop can someone with better math skills check this to see if I'm cutting at 3/4" per foot angle for NPT? http://www.linuxcnc.org/images/fbfiles/files/ntp.ngc
[16:39:05] <JT-Shop> there it is
[16:39:13] <Danimal_garage> ah
[16:39:31] <JT-Shop> the threads looked ok to me
[16:39:51] <Danimal_garage> i've never done any threading on my lathe, sad huh?
[16:39:57] <Danimal_garage> never needed to
[16:40:26] <JT-Shop> I'd say your lucky
[16:40:42] <Danimal_garage> yea, i'd say the same lol
[16:40:59] <Danimal_garage> i just do them on the manual lathe (not npt though)
[16:40:59] * JT-Shop grabs a carpet knife and a pry bar and heads back in
[16:41:03] <awallin> so did anyone get the encoders for $41 ? :)
[16:41:15] <Danimal_garage> awallin: where?
[16:41:23] <jdhNC> not me... I had to go in the hot area
[16:42:09] <awallin> these http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270808621670
[16:42:51] <Danimal_garage> wow good price
[16:42:57] <Danimal_garage> wish it was me
[16:44:10] <awallin> yeah if they work and the pinout is sane
[16:47:28] <Danimal_garage> damn it's humid today
[16:49:34] <skunkworks> http://youtu.be/jAcFeVlftrw
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[16:52:02] <cradek> very neat
[16:52:08] <archivist> proper machine tap...why peck
[16:52:12] <Danimal_garage> nice!
[16:52:25] <Danimal_garage> blind hole i'm guessing
[16:52:54] <Danimal_garage> although it was a spiral flute, it should do a pretty good job of clearing the chips
[16:53:08] <skunkworks> archivist: I was holding the tap in a drill chuck. I know it would not hold it tight enough to go all the way though
[16:53:09] <archivist> the chips are coming out the hole correctly anyway
[16:53:30] <skunkworks> I didn't feel like busting out the tap holder tooling
[16:53:33] <Danimal_garage> he was just showing off
[16:53:33] <skunkworks> at the time
[16:53:38] <Danimal_garage> :)
[16:53:46] <cradek> I use my ER40 collet chuck for all taps
[16:54:42] <Danimal_garage> i never rigid tap, i suck :(
[16:55:01] <Danimal_garage> i need a spindle encoder first i guess
[16:55:05] <JT-Shop> I just use an ER collet for tapping
[16:55:52] <cradek> they makey special ERs with squares in the back, but I just use regular and make sure they're tight
[16:55:57] <cradek> make
[16:55:59] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: have you ever tried thread milling npt threads?
[16:56:12] <JT-Shop> no, just regular threads
[16:56:30] <JT-Shop> I don't think you can do that with EMC
[16:57:00] <Danimal_garage> you can't do a tapered helix?
[16:57:07] <cradek> sure, but not with one line of gcode
[16:57:09] <TekniQue> wouldn't you just use a tapered thread mill for that?
[16:57:33] <TekniQue> (are those available?)
[16:57:56] <Danimal_garage> the onei have cuts one thread at a time
[16:58:00] <TekniQue> oh
[16:58:11] <cradek> even with a multi-tooth tapered thread mill, you'd still need a bit of a tapered helix
[16:58:30] <TekniQue> yeah that's true
[16:59:03] <TekniQue> as you move down one thread you must also reduce the radius
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[17:02:18] <Danimal_garage> is the thread angle at a taper too on a pipe thread? or is it square to the centerline of the diameter?
[17:03:42] <Danimal_garage> opps, made a titanium taco on the lathe. apparently this program hasn't been edited to trepan the excess material off
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[17:05:02] <Danimal_garage> i should just turn my lathe into a brake press, seems to be better at that than turning the same material
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[17:05:23] <jdhNC> I thought a trepan was drilling a hole in your head
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[17:06:45] <jdhNC> JT: what's the tan(88.) from?
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[17:20:16] <archivist> you can do a tapered helix on a mill! you just need the part to rotate on a rotary
[17:21:04] <syyl> milling a tapered helix on a manual mill?
[17:21:26] <archivist> who said anything about manual
[17:21:38] <syyl> can be done on a manual one ;)
[17:21:44] <syyl> http://www.lathes.co.uk/deckel/img18.gif
[17:21:55] <syyl> deckel fp1 with spiralmilling attachement
[17:21:56] <syyl> :D
[17:22:08] <syyl> love that machine...
[17:24:06] <archivist> fun is emc2 and a bit of gcode can do anything a deckel can
[17:24:15] <syyl> yeah
[17:24:26] <syyl> but back then.. ;)
[17:24:32] <syyl> ok, i shut up :D
[17:24:35] <archivist> :)
[17:24:42] <skunkworks> cradek: did you see my comment on the tapping cycle?
[17:25:39] <JT-Shop> jdhNC: that is the opposite angle to the thread angle
[17:26:56] <archivist> JT-Shop, the .1 seems in the wrong place in that calc
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[17:27:52] <jdhNC> the opposite of the taper?
[17:28:41] <JT-Shop> yea, so I could use TAN to calculate the height, but I do see an big error when I changed the code today :/
[17:29:52] <JT-Shop> X-end-thread should have been calculated
[17:29:56] <JT-Shop> opps
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[17:30:57] <jdhNC> should that 0.00625 be 0.0625?
[17:32:04] <JT-Shop> no that's what 0.1 in Z would result in X at 1.7899°
[17:32:19] <JT-Shop> back to carpet ripping
[17:33:03] <jdhNC> oh... I missed all those .1's
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[18:49:11] <JT-Shop> probably an easier way to do it but it escapes me...
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[19:24:38] <jdhNC> if I needed about a 600oz/in stepper for my Z axis, what would be a fairly equivalent servo rating?
[19:25:31] <Tom_itx> i would imagine a servo is gonna be geared so it might vary
[19:28:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: carpet ripping?
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[19:30:09] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[21:00:50] <andypugh> How often does the Buildbot run?
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[21:01:55] <A2Sheds> anyone have a lathe with an 18" or larger swing?
[21:05:09] <andypugh> I have access to one.
[21:07:12] <A2Sheds> andypugh: I passed one up for $500
[21:07:39] <andypugh> Lots of gap-bed lathes can handle that.
[21:08:08] <A2Sheds> I might need to make some parts 18" dia and 12" long
[21:09:43] <andypugh> Ah, at the point gap-beds become less useful.
[21:11:21] <andypugh> A2Sheds: I guess this is out-of-budget?
[21:11:22] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ravensburg-P20-III-CNC-Modular-Floor-Lathe-/270607284211
[21:11:51] <A2Sheds> 18" dia fluid filled roller on axles with fluid couplings
[21:12:31] <A2Sheds> heh... I just want to build the protos, not get into production
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[21:14:47] <A2Sheds> http://www.webexinc.com/tx-1800.html similar to these
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[21:22:04] <andypugh> It seems to me that a flow up one way and back the other would make for more even heating.
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[21:25:52] <A2Sheds> those are good for +/- 1 F, I only need +/- 10F
[21:26:54] <A2Sheds> I'm sure I can make a few for less than $10k ea
[21:29:05] <andypugh> Yes, that does seem quite likely!
[21:33:02] <A2Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-WARNER-SWASEY-TURRET-LATHE-COLLETS-3-JAW-TOOLING-/300580705880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc019658 lots of these in the midwest
[21:34:28] <andypugh> That's a lot of money for something almost useless.
[21:36:00] <elmo401> 10k for those rollers?
[21:36:30] <A2Sheds> elmo401: for one ~ 18" dia and 12" long
[21:36:42] <elmo401> wow
[21:37:36] <A2Sheds> and then they complain about people buying from offshore
[21:37:42] <andypugh> Probably an awful lot of metal ends up on the floor.
[21:38:16] <elmo401> im still looking at how they are put together.
[21:38:25] <A2Sheds> they can be made from tubing and welded ends
[21:38:31] <elmo401> for sure
[21:38:33] <elmo401> why not?
[21:38:58] <elmo401> don't need to be a roll formed unit.
[21:39:26] <andypugh> I suspect they might be machined from solid.
[21:39:53] <A2Sheds> they don't have to be though
[21:40:20] <elmo401> so... the inside wall has grooves? or is there something on the inside?
[21:40:27] <andypugh> .002" concentricity and straightness isn't that special, but isn't trivial on that sort of size
[21:40:57] <A2Sheds> the other option is a few small rollers inside a convection oven with the web doing some Z's
[21:41:04] <andypugh> I think it is a roller with grooves inside a plain roller.
[21:41:49] <andypugh> The inner has to be a press-fit or it adds nothing to the stiffness. (I assume stiffness is needed, with it being a roll)
[21:42:32] <A2Sheds> yeah, if it's not stiff the web will stretch or wrinkle
[21:43:23] <A2Sheds> web press running at 2ft/sec with 1-5 mil poly film
[21:43:33] <andypugh> Better pics here: http://www.mengesroller.com/chill-heat-transfer.html
[21:44:08] <andypugh> Looks like you machine a roll, weld on baffles, re-machine, press on the outer, re-machine.
[21:46:44] <elmo401> filezilla now has tabbing! can connect to more then one ftp at a time :) Love it. About bloody time :P
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[21:54:38] <elmo401> fairly smooth finish at 32.
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[21:55:48] <andypugh> Yes, I was wondering about that. I guess they can do smoother too.
[21:58:29] <A2Sheds> I just spoke with the mengesroller guys, just outside Chicago
[21:59:16] <andypugh> Useful word (possibly) that I just remembered in this context "Calender"
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[22:16:28] <PCW> andy there?
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[22:23:56] <andypugh> Aye
[22:26:54] <PCW> What do I need to do to test the current 5I25 code
[22:27:39] <PCW> is fetching the latest source sufficient?
[22:30:25] <PCW> Also whatever the 7I64 bug is, its only a startup bug (ran error free all the long weekend)
[22:30:51] <andypugh> You need to apply the patch I sent to the v2.5_branch
[22:32:19] <andypugh> And I am shooting from the hip here, anyone with a clue about Git, feel free to interject.
[22:33:02] <andypugh> If git branch doesn't show a "v2.5_branch" branch then git checkout origin/v2.5_branch
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[22:33:20] <PCW> OK Ill give it a try (patch on emc-devel mailing list?)
[22:33:44] <andypugh> No, the one I emailed you, I think. (Let me check)
[22:34:45] <andypugh> yes, 3rd Sept, to you and Seb.
[22:37:17] <PCW> ok got it
[22:42:35] <PCW> BTW http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i69man.pdf has final sserial/sslbp discovery info
[22:42:36] <PCW> (its in the manual now, we cant futz about with it any more)
[22:44:50] <andypugh> If it is documented, all the bugs are now features?
[22:46:15] <PCW> Thats it exactly
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[22:49:34] <andypugh> " If byte is neither, there is a error" I suspect irony. (This is the chap who puts "this page deliberately almost blank" on manual pages)
[22:50:38] <PCW> more likely just bad writing
[22:50:42] <andypugh> Anyway, it seems logical enough.
[22:51:28] <andypugh> I will need to get used to handling null-terminated strings in C, but it is about time I did that anyway.
[22:52:02] <PCW> well git is complaining "if too big error instead of silently failing" or some such
[22:52:30] <andypugh> Reminds me of the TIFF format. That is all "this is a TIFF, here is a pointer to the tag table, feel free to ignore the ones you can't handle."
[22:52:59] <andypugh> That's a new commit (today)
[22:53:23] <andypugh> Are you in a branch?
[22:54:24] <PCW> not enough git foo to know what that means...
[22:54:34] <andypugh> What I think you need to do is.
[22:54:52] <andypugh> git checkout v2.5_branch
[22:54:56] <PCW> downloaded master then tried the checkout 2.5
[22:56:09] <PCW> so maybe its ok the "if too big error instead of silently failing" threw me
[22:56:16] <andypugh> if you type git branch, what do you see?
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[22:58:15] <PCW> thats what made me think it didn't work
[22:58:17] <PCW> get branch:
[22:58:18] <PCW> * (no branch)
[22:58:20] <PCW> master
[22:58:50] <PCW> git branch I mean
[22:58:58] <andypugh> Ah, you need a local branch that tracks the v2.5 branch
[22:59:15] <andypugh> git checkout origin/v2.5_branch
[23:00:00] <PCW> I thought i tried that but let me try again
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[23:01:01] <andypugh> Wait, I might be wrong.
[23:01:08] <andypugh> let me try that here
[23:01:17] <PCW> that gives "head is at 4354304 blah blah
[23:01:44] <andypugh> what's the blah blah?
[23:02:18] <PCW> the error too big stuff
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[23:04:03] <andypugh> what does git branch say now?
[23:04:13] <PCW> same
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[23:04:37] <andypugh> master and *(no branch)?
[23:05:12] <andypugh> (Talk about the blind leading the blind)
[23:05:49] <PCW> yeah, i removed the origin for the checkout and it worked
[23:06:11] <PCW> not idea what i am actually doing
[23:06:29] <andypugh> That was what I was about to say. You should now have a new "tracking" branch.
[23:07:32] <andypugh> At any point you can now git checkout that branch, then git pull, and it will update to be exactly the same as the 2.5 branch in the main repo.
[23:07:45] <PCW> so you patch is applied in the src/hal/mesa-hostmot2 directory?
[23:08:04] <andypugh> No, currently it is nowhere.
[23:08:22] <andypugh> You need to create a "working" branch to try it in.
[23:08:34] <andypugh> git checkout -b 5i25_test
[23:09:15] <andypugh> (that's a shorcut for git branch 5i25_test then git checkout 5i25_test)
[23:10:14] <PCW> Ahh ok that how you avoid messing the original
[23:10:15] <andypugh> That creates a branch starting off identical to v2.5_branch, where you can make changes without messing up the 2.5 branch
[23:10:56] <andypugh> now git am (that file I sent you) should patch that branch
[23:11:24] <PCW> and that can be run from anywhere?
[23:11:38] <andypugh> Git is very confusing, but does actually do everything you can imagine wanting to do.
[23:12:20] <PCW> I'm finding that is you fight it, you lose
[23:12:25] <PCW> if
[23:12:38] <andypugh> Yeah, basically the entire emc2-dev directory structure changes to suit the branch you are in. (I think a lot of files shuffle around behind the scenes)
[23:13:59] <andypugh> You need to be in the repository you want to work in (I think you can have several on one machine, normally for different projects, and it wouldn't do to try to patch Heekscad with an EM2 patch)
[23:14:26] <PCW> ok let me give it a try (on slightly anoying hotsmot2 "feature" is that if you have an unused FPGA card if will bail so i have to swap cards every try (or make a giant furball hall file with all cards)
[23:14:27] <andypugh> So, as long as you are somwhere under emc2-dev then git am will work
[23:17:58] <PCW> OK building
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[23:19:30] <PCW> Thanks for the guidance
[23:19:49] <andypugh> Lets see if it works first.
[23:20:20] <PCW> well the patch applied and its building
[23:22:00] <PCW> still building, no speed demon
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[23:34:28] <PCW> OK pins seem to work (but it says 2.6pre when EMC launches) maybe i made the
[23:34:29] <PCW> 5i252test from 2.6 pre by mistake but Im pretty sure the asterisk was by 2.5 at that point, not master
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[23:38:10] <andypugh> No, I think there is a problem with the latest 2.5. I have the same mis-reported version.
[23:40:43] <PCW> well then pinout looks ok Ill try the step/dir pins with my high tech test equipment( a speaker)
[23:43:47] <andypugh> It would be nice to be sure about 5i25 input and output, and the other two cards. I have checked it doesn't break 5i23, but it would be good if you can check that 7i43 also still works. If that all passes, I wil push it.
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[23:47:04] <PCW> OK Ill test that stuff tomorrow
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[23:48:14] <PCW> bbl ttgh
[23:50:34] <andypugh> Aye, time for sleep here.
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