#emc | Logs for 2011-09-02

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[00:05:01] <mikegg> evening fellas
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[00:14:41] <JT-Shop> f#$k!ng winblows 7 keeps turning on my home network firewall what a POS
[00:15:13] <JT-Shop> I'll never upgrade anything on this box
[00:16:29] <Tom_itx> it wants to protect you
[00:17:02] <SWPadnos> JT-Shop, I'll bet that you could run SolidWorks just as well under VMWare as you can on bare metal ...
[00:17:34] <JT-Shop> bare metal?
[00:17:36] <SWPadnos> SW2006 worked quite fast on a dual Opteron with a Quadro FX 3500, back in the day
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[00:17:47] <SWPadnos> sitting on top of VMWare on Hardy ...
[00:17:58] <JT-Shop> ah, never tried that
[00:18:06] <SWPadnos> bare metal meaning running the OS on the actual hardware, rather than in a VM
[00:18:46] <JT-Shop> just pisses me off every time you upgrade the sob's want to add crap like google chrome or norton or some other crap
[00:18:58] <SWPadnos> yeah
[00:19:08] <JT-Shop> makes me want to shoot something...
[00:19:37] <SWPadnos> and I really love the bit where you shut down in a hurry on Friday night, only to be met with "Windows is installing update 1 of 45, please wait" (and never trusting it to finish correctly, of course I have to wait ...)
[00:19:43] <JT-Shop> other than that everything is peaches and cream :)
[00:19:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:19:52] <JT-Shop> yea
[00:19:56] <SWPadnos> don't lie to me. I use Windows 7 at a client site ;)
[00:20:02] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:20:21] <JT-Shop> I mean other than winblows 7
[00:20:47] <JT-Shop> the ballista is coming along nicely
[00:25:22] <Tom_itx> did you get the ratchet done yet?
[00:25:49] <JT-Shop> no, but I have the reamers I need
[00:26:11] <JT-Shop> I'll have some time this weekend to finish that and the hand wheel up I think
[00:26:37] <JT-Shop> I've been working on the frame of it in my spare time
[00:26:54] <JT-Shop> I'm only lacking two more bits to the frame
[00:27:05] <JT-Shop> brb
[00:38:20] <Jymmm> Hola
[00:38:46] <Tom_itx> ok opinions.
[00:38:56] <Tom_itx> this is a work in progress and i just started on it so be gentle
[00:38:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx_install_index.php
[00:39:09] <Tom_itx> not nearly done
[00:39:16] <Jymmm> OH MY GAWD are you serious?!
[00:39:47] <Jymmm> Should I click the link now?
[00:39:55] <Tom_itx> which one?
[00:40:09] <Tom_itx> sure
[00:40:14] <Jymmm> the one you just gave
[00:40:27] <mikegg> did the Xilinx setup run for you the first time? I didn
[00:40:44] <Tom_itx> no but once i had help it did
[00:40:49] <mikegg> 't get the webpack - I got the other one, and I had to hunt down some libstdc++ package
[00:40:57] <Tom_itx> yes
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[00:40:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: widen the left margin on the vertical navigation a touch
[00:41:13] <Tom_itx> you must be in ff
[00:41:52] <mikegg> what's ff?
[00:42:07] <Tom_itx> firefox
[00:42:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: it shouldn't matter... http://i55.tinypic.com/34j4q3n.jpg
[00:42:25] <Tom_itx> it does though
[00:42:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And thus my hatred for SGML =)
[00:43:00] <Tom_itx> windows throws it to the other side
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[00:43:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Also, in the RAW html, I'd place the navigation AFTER the content, not before. but that's just me
[00:45:01] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: FWIW, you don't need "Copyright" AND "©", one or the other is fine.
[00:45:12] <Jymmm> as is (c)
[00:45:26] <Tom_itx> gawd you're fussy
[00:46:07] <Jymmm> It's usually: (c) [year(s)] entity
[00:46:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: hey, you asked =)
[00:47:08] <Tom_itx> i said be gentle too :=)
[00:47:13] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: OH, you shouldn't use <font> tags in the html. place them is the CSS file.
[00:47:25] <Tom_itx> those things are all inherent with the whole website
[00:47:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I am, I haven't even bothered to validate any of your code.
[00:47:50] <Tom_itx> i had it all validated once but gave up
[00:48:04] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, <font> tags even I shove in CSS, it's much lighter and less headahces.
[00:48:04] <Valen> Tom_itx: host it on a real server ;-P
[00:48:13] <Tom_itx> pfft
[00:48:19] <Tom_itx> and end up like abc?
[00:48:28] <Valen> what happened to him?
[00:48:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You're raw layout is all right justified, and looks funky.
[00:48:41] <Tom_itx> wordpage
[00:49:08] <Tom_itx> the host got hacked
[00:49:17] <Jymmm> Even *I* don't do this, and I hate CSS.... <span style="padding: 5px; font-size: 11px;">
[00:49:40] <Tom_itx> i think i got that initially from some template
[00:50:00] <Jymmm> Ah,clean it up if you get a chance
[00:50:09] <Tom_itx> i won't get one
[00:50:22] <Valen> it passes all my tests
[00:50:28] <Valen> i can read it
[00:50:37] <Valen> it doesnt play stupid sound
[00:50:42] <Valen> it doesnt have flash
[00:51:12] <Valen> you *might* want to up the contrast a little black on grey isn't the best but eh its not bad
[00:51:49] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: WTH is all this shit? You hiding errors?
[00:51:54] <Jymmm> <!-- <br />
[00:51:54] <Jymmm> <b>Warning</b>: include(howto_feedback.php) [<a href='function.include'>function.include</a>]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in <b>/home/webpage/public_html/emc/xilinx/xilinx_install_body.html</b> on line <b>71</b><br />
[00:51:54] <Jymmm> <br />
[00:51:55] <Jymmm> <b>Warning</b>: include() [<a href='function.include'>function.include</a>]: Failed opening 'howto_feedback.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear') in <b>/home/webpage/public_html/emc/xilinx/xilinx_install_body.html</b> on line <b>71</b><br />
[00:51:57] <Jymmm> -->
[00:52:33] <Tom_itx> that was copied from another page
[00:52:38] <Tom_itx> hasn't been dumped yet
[00:52:44] <Tom_itx> i said i just started on this
[00:53:00] <Tom_itx> and nobody has commented on the clarity of the "how to" part
[00:54:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the screenshots are too small (Yes, I know I can click on them)
[00:54:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: should be close to the widht of the greay area imo
[00:55:14] <Valen> you also know your page uses about 1/3rd of my monitor ;->
[00:55:32] <Tom_itx> get a smaller one
[00:55:57] <Jymmm> Valen: That I don't mind, I can see it even on my netbook wihtout having the scroll horizontally
[00:56:12] <Jymmm> I NEVER have a browser window full screen
[00:56:35] <Valen> scale your page dammit
[00:56:46] <Valen> fixed width is for arts majors ;-P
[00:56:48] <Jymmm> Valen: scale your browser biotch!
[00:57:40] <Jymmm> lil under 800px wide. works for me!!!
[00:58:40] <Valen> i'm just messin with yer Tom_itx
[00:58:50] <Jymmm> Valen: (liar)
[00:58:53] <Valen> i'm rather curious to see how it turns out
[00:58:59] <Valen> the content
[00:59:38] <Tom_itx> me too
[00:59:49] <Tom_itx> refresh
[00:59:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the "thumbnails" on here are too hi-res as is. http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[01:00:38] <Valen> they are awesome
[01:00:48] <Valen> i wouldn't want them any smaller
[01:01:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I like it. one comment on the ISE DESIGN image, make it BORDER="1"
[01:01:05] <Valen> (i use his page on the teensy all the time)
[01:01:30] <Jymmm> Valen: They are clickable to get full size, they've been scaled down via html/css and a take a while to load.
[01:01:45] <Valen> ahh, thats less than awesome
[01:01:56] <Tom_itx> i literally started on it 5min before posting the link
[01:02:04] <Tom_itx> i'll work on it more this evening
[01:02:06] <Valen> saw a page for a local car mob that had 2Mb pictures scaled do 320x240
[01:02:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: np
[01:02:32] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I've just seen pages like tha take forever to load on wifi or smartphone is all.
[01:02:39] <Valen> Tom_itx: give PNG a try for the graphics btw
[01:02:51] <Tom_itx> i had png and converted them
[01:02:53] <Tom_itx> :)
[01:02:56] <Valen> why?
[01:03:07] <Jymmm> png, jpg doesn't matter.
[01:03:29] <Jymmm> just try not to use html scaling just to fit the page is all I'm saying.
[01:03:30] <Valen> pngs can be smaller and look better
[01:04:10] <Jymmm> Valen: Tom has ONE image for the thumnails AND full size images. He just used html to make them fit the page, bust still take as long to download.
[01:04:32] <Valen> and i understand that
[01:04:35] <Valen> i really do
[01:04:38] <Valen> i know its bad
[01:04:43] <Valen> i said as much before
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[01:04:43] <Jymmm> k
[01:05:16] <Valen> i also as an additional suggestion, differently to the scaling images issue, suggested that he try png rather than jpg
[01:05:20] <Jymmm> tm much better after I refreshed, except the VERY first ISE DESIGN one.
[01:05:26] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ^^^
[01:05:34] <Valen> and appropriately scaled the image
[01:06:00] <Jymmm> Valen: It'll only be a REAL issue if he has to pay for bandwidth =)
[01:06:16] <Valen> its coming over his home adsl connection
[01:06:31] <Jymmm> right now, but I thought he had hosting too.
[01:06:33] <Valen> which likes to die
[01:09:00] <Tom_itx> no just a home server
[01:09:13] <Tom_itx> for me and my hobbies
[01:09:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I thought you had a business making AVR stuff?
[01:09:45] <Tom_itx> i made those programmers
[01:10:01] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: was that a one time thing?
[01:10:17] <Tom_itx> i've sold quite a few
[01:10:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, I thought you had a shopping cart and all that that ppl can pay you via paypal
[01:11:05] <Tom_itx> no cart, just individual items
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[01:11:15] <Jymmm> ah
[01:11:22] <Tom_itx> it's not that big a deal
[01:12:08] <Tom_itx> dean was working on LUFA and i had the idea to make one up so we colaborated and he got to finish his software and i got a nice little programmer
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[01:12:41] <Tom_itx> he hadn't finished the TPI support at the time and i had some tiny10's to work with
[01:12:46] <Jymmm> heh
[01:13:14] <Tom_itx> so i sent him a couple and helped him test
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[02:03:54] <Calyp> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5436553/BBC_The_Virtual_Revolution_Episodes_1-4_HDTV_x264_AC3_720p-
[02:04:16] <Jymmm> Calyp: Uh, wrong window?
[02:04:41] <Calyp> aye ^^
[02:05:07] <Calyp> really good series though! i can highly recommend it!
[02:05:28] <Calyp> ;)
[02:05:28] <Jymmm> Calyp: (Just FYI... Freenode doesn't like/tolerate warez stuff)
[02:06:07] <Calyp> yeah yeah, i know
[02:06:21] <Jymmm> k
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[02:26:25] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop
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[03:15:51] <Tom_itx> Valen, Jymmm
[03:16:01] <Tom_itx> wanna see if it makes sense now?
[03:19:31] <Valen> seems good
[03:19:41] <Valen> might want to mention where to stick the firmware files
[03:19:45] <Valen> once made
[03:19:54] <Tom_itx> up yo ...
[03:19:56] <Tom_itx> yeah i suppose
[03:22:29] <Tom_itx> i nearly forgot where i put them
[03:34:13] <Tom_itx> ok
[03:34:22] <Tom_itx> better?
[03:36:35] <Valen> yeah looks good
[03:37:10] <Valen> what do you get out of doing all of that?
[03:37:27] <Valen> or are you sposed to be editing some source files as well?
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[06:45:07] <RyanS> http://pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1 only $2690... bargain
[06:54:20] <awallin_> 1999 GBP over here http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=644
[07:00:01] <RyanS> I think I would rather buy this http://www.kinovatechnology.com/ it's only $45k
[07:00:58] <awallin_> 'third hand tool'
[07:03:04] <RyanS> I wonder if it could mix cocktails.. shaking could be a problem
[07:07:46] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:40:47] <aphex> hi!
[08:41:08] <aphex> i need some help, by compiling the halui.cc
[08:41:36] <aphex> i get the following error:
[08:42:56] <aphex> /usr/include/emc2/rtapi.h:63:2: error: #error "Please define either RTAPI or ULAPI!"
[08:43:08] <aphex> /usr/include/emc2/hal.h:130:2: error: #error HAL needs RTAPI/ULAPI, check makefile and flags
[08:43:14] <psha[work]> you need to run configure first
[08:43:59] <aphex> hi psha!
[08:45:17] <aphex> so shall i first git the whole source?
[08:45:34] <psha[work]> yes
[08:45:50] <psha[work]> or just copy config.h
[08:45:59] <psha[work]> hi
[08:46:13] <psha[work]> wait a bit, i'll check my makefiles
[08:46:45] <psha[work]> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/emc-camunits/tree/Makefile
[08:46:58] <psha[work]> but there is some extra black magic you don't need
[08:47:33] <psha[work]> hal_priv.h is not needed if you don't want to access HAL internals
[08:47:46] <psha[work]> so you don't need sources, just emc2-dev
[08:49:08] <aphex> yes the emc2-dev is installed already
[08:49:47] <aphex> but i have found #define RTAPI in none of the sources
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[08:50:50] <aphex> which line in your makefile will solve the define error?
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[08:52:13] <psha[work]> -U
[08:52:16] <psha[work]> oops
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[08:52:29] <psha[work]> LOCAL_CFLAGS += -I/usr/include/emc2 -DULAPI
[08:53:12] <psha[work]> and next one, override CFLAGS += ...
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[10:17:59] <aphex> so it succeeded to comile the whole source, and when running the "halui" without command line parameters i get
[10:18:01] <aphex> emc/usr_intf/halui.cc 2130: iniLoad error
[10:18:09] <aphex> any suggestions?
[10:18:57] <psha[work]> halui needs .ini file
[10:19:03] <psha[work]> maybe you'll start with minimal example first?
[10:19:47] <aphex> what do you mean?
[10:20:09] <aphex> ive started the halrun with a minimal config
[10:20:16] <aphex> but yes, have no ini file
[10:20:33] <psha[work]> halui$ wc -l src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc
[10:20:34] <psha[work]> 2172 src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc
[10:21:00] <psha[work]> minimal - something that have only hal init and cleanup code and simple loop to update values
[10:21:15] <psha[work]> halui with more them 2k lines of code is not minimal in that sense
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[10:23:08] <aphex> hehe yes, this is the original halui.cc
[10:23:23] <aphex> when cutting thing out, got dependency errors ..
[10:23:28] <aphex> things
[10:23:40] <psha[work]> you have to cut down nearly everything
[10:23:52] <psha[work]> and it's better to start from empty file then :)
[10:24:02] <psha[work]> halui has too many helper functions inside
[10:24:10] <aphex> sure
[10:24:47] <aphex> i ve started it from an empty file, and inserted the functions what the compiler said
[10:25:19] <aphex> and when the code was over 1000 lines, i decided to use the original one...
[10:26:43] <psha[work]> 1000 lines?!
[10:26:46] <psha[work]> heh
[10:26:54] <aphex> and still got errors :)
[10:27:56] <psha[work]> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/emc-camunits/tree/halio.c#n136
[10:27:59] <psha[work]> hal init
[10:28:20] <psha[work]> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/emc-camunits/tree/halio.c#n49
[10:28:22] <psha[work]> hal_exit
[10:28:31] <psha[work]> that's all
[10:28:36] <psha[work]> you'll get ~20-30 sloc file
[10:28:54] <psha[work]> however _don't_ use that file as an example - it's a bit hacky
[10:29:56] <aphex> for me its also ok to use the original halui, since it has the functions i need
[10:30:22] <psha[work]> heh, what functions do you need? :)
[10:30:31] <psha[work]> all functions you need are in hal.h
[10:31:07] <psha[work]> halui not only consists of HAL interaction but also have lot of emc command submissions
[10:31:14] <psha[work]> i hardly imagine how you need them
[10:31:41] <psha[work]> also if you are developing UI you'd better give a try to python for non-critical part
[10:31:55] <psha[work]> and leave critical one to C code which would be small and simple
[10:32:42] <aphex> halui.jog.* needs only a little bit of change
[10:32:59] <aphex> since only one variable exists to set up the speed
[10:33:15] <aphex> halui.jog-speed (float, in) - pin for setting jog speed for minus/plus jogging
[10:33:47] <aphex> oh no mod needed
[10:33:51] <aphex> ---> halui.jog.<n>.analog (float, in) - analog velocity input for jogging (usefull with joysticks or other analog devices)
[10:33:57] <aphex> this would do the trick
[10:34:06] <aphex> just tell me please how i can use it :)
[10:34:23] <psha[work]> that won't unless you use motion component
[10:34:30] <psha[work]> if you need to control speed directly jogs won't help you
[10:34:38] <aphex> ok i see
[10:34:52] <psha[work]> if you control speed with HAL pins all you need is two hal pins
[10:34:59] <aphex> then back to the original way you ve said earlyer
[10:35:08] <psha[work]> and not jogs, estop, state inspection and lot of other stuff from halui
[10:35:19] <aphex> okay!
[10:37:15] <aphex> im going to shrink the halui.cc ...
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[10:39:09] <psha[work]> start from clean one - that will give you better result
[10:39:53] <aphex> but first i guess it would be fine just run the original one, and only after that making changes... right? :)
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[10:40:27] <psha[work]> no
[10:40:33] <psha[work]> for original one you need .ini file
[10:40:59] <psha[work]> which is used to load MDI commands and bind them to hal pins
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[10:43:52] <aphex> ok, thanks!
[10:43:54] <aphex> brb
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[12:08:37] <hatch789> cncbasher: hey Basher you there?
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[12:14:16] <hatch789> cradek: cradek are you there?
[12:19:28] <archivist> ask the real question then any one can answer
[12:19:50] <psha[work]> archivist: _that_ was real question
[12:20:11] <Tom_itx> is anyone _really_ here?
[12:20:16] <archivist> no
[12:20:17] <psha[work]> truly speaking i'm also interested if there is somebody behind 'cradek' or no...
[12:20:33] <hatch789> ok sure... I thought it was a real question (LOL) but I see where you're going with this so I'll certainly shoot my question out to you guys.
[12:21:25] <hatch789> I was trying to test my servo drives Westamp drives. I removed pin2 from my J2 molex connecter and was going to use a little battery rig to see if I could drive my servo forward and backwards with DC current.
[12:22:36] <hatch789> When I put it all into play nothing happened. I then (for the hell of it) tried using the CNC commands to move the servo with JOG functions and it still moved correctly even though pin2 was off.
[12:24:19] <hatch789> sorry it was off of J1
[12:24:45] <hatch789> J1 pinouts are 1-aux, 2-sig, 3-tach, 4-sig com
[12:24:55] <hatch789> there are 8 more but those are the ones I was messing with
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[12:25:13] <hatch789> I'm just confused how it continued to move with pin2 (sig) removed?!?!
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[12:45:02] <Jymmm> Mornin
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[13:08:38] <IG-garage> evening. Have been drilling all day long.
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[13:11:10] <IG-garage> our milling machine runs DOS (or DOS runs our milling machine), and it sometimes switches off when you exiting the text editor embedded into the program. so after rebooting and homing, I touch off again and it takes some time
[13:12:16] <Jymmm> Sounds like TurboCNC
[13:14:29] <IG-garage> maybe. F10 for jogging and F1 for command line?
[13:15:17] <Jymmm> IG-garage: This? http://www.dakeng.com/man/TurboCNC_files/image008.jpg
[13:15:49] <IG-garage> not at all
[13:16:00] <Jymmm> k
[13:16:10] <IG-garage> >|
[13:16:12] <Jymmm> THAT was TurboCNC btw
[13:16:33] <IG-garage> Turbine-powered CNC ?
[13:16:52] <Jymmm> No, Pascal Powered CNC =)
[13:17:02] <Jymmm> or Turbo Pascal
[13:18:00] <IG-garage> oh, I thought "turbo" mena something like advanced and unusually convenient GUI
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[13:20:24] <Loetmichel> IG-garage: more in the ways of "turbo fast coded and put on the marked as late alpha" ;-)
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[13:24:07] <IG-garage> maybe yes, maybe not, who knows (who knows?) / Who knows what could be reason
[13:24:35] <Jymmm> It was written in Borland Turbo Pascal
[13:25:00] <IG-garage> that's the reason?
[13:25:18] <Jymmm> More than likely
[13:26:09] <IG-garage> what if some sexy blond girl had written it? Will we use it? <- Sure!
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[13:33:33] <Valen> if the code is tattooed to her chest perhaps
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[13:51:37] <cradek> hatch789: my first guess is you're wrong about the pinout
[13:51:57] <cradek> that seems like the simplest explanation, don't you think?
[13:52:31] <hatch789> it does accept for the fact taht CNC basher and I have been going over every inch of the manual and pictures of my actual Westamp drive
[13:52:51] <cradek> is the manual online?
[13:52:58] <hatch789> I have sent him many sets of schematics (which came with my machine) as well as actual pictures of the unit in my mill
[13:53:07] <hatch789> no but I can send it to you if you like
[13:53:35] <archivist> does it have multiple modes of operation though, so pinout use varies
[13:53:47] <hatch789> not sure
[13:57:28] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXz0JoGNCVU
[13:57:30] <hatch789> if you give me an e-mail I can send you the two files immediately
[14:00:18] <cradek> chris@timeguy.com
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[14:00:46] <cradek> I can make them available on my site, or can you use something like imagebin.com?
[14:02:26] <skunkworks> so - should I try rigid tapping on an actual part?
[14:02:31] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:02:47] <archivist> we vote yes
[14:03:41] <skunkworks> 3/8 tap. we have some spiral ones that really cut nice. shavings come strait back. and it will be in aluminum. I tapped one by hand and it was painless.
[14:04:03] <Jymmm> Let the pain begin!
[14:04:28] <archivist> there is no pain with spiral taps till you get to number 85
[14:04:34] <skunkworks> heh
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[14:05:45] <archivist> I was getting counts in the 80's to 90's in stainless before breakage
[14:08:18] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HLKXeWqTF0
[14:11:14] <skunkworks> I have not actually rigid tapped since inital testing.. I do know that the encoder still works because I used it for FPR
[14:11:31] <cradek> tap some air first...
[14:11:37] <skunkworks> heh - right
[14:12:02] <skunkworks> been making bags of aluminum shavings
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[14:27:33] <hatch789> cradek: did you get my e-mails
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[14:56:41] <hatch789> cradek: did you get my e-mails
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[15:45:14] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[15:45:27] <IG-garage> Well, what can I say, dudes, farewell (evening) and thanks for all the fish!
[15:47:20] <IG-garage> hatch789: he first reads the love emails of his female students to him.
[15:47:53] <hatch789> ok guys I have to go. catch you on the flip side...
[15:48:06] <hatch789> cradek: you can just e-mail me back if you like
[15:49:30] <IG-garage> hatch789: some people are just busy at work this time, not even read the IRC messages neither e-mails
[15:49:44] <hatch789> no problem
[15:49:49] <hatch789> later guys!
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[15:50:27] <IG-garage> yeah, when you're there. When it's a morning there and an evening here, . . .
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[16:09:53] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop?
[16:15:50] <Tom_itx> haha i bet everybody in the US has the long weekend on their mind today
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[16:20:32] <JT-Work> is W typically the parallel axis to Z? say for raising the knee on a BP mill
[16:25:43] <awallin> so is Friday a holiday in the USA also? or just Monday? I'm getting no or slow replies to customer service emails today...
[16:25:56] <Tom_itx> mon
[16:26:17] <awallin> ok...
[16:26:40] <Tom_itx> most dedicated workers begin it on friday around 8:00 or 9:00am when they arrive at work
[16:35:58] <JT-Work> why wait for friday
[16:36:35] <Tom_itx> JT-Work, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx_install_index.php
[16:36:50] <JT-Work> cool
[16:37:04] <Tom_itx> lemme know if it's in error
[16:38:05] <A2Sheds> awallin: people here also tend to take any left over vacation days off before or after a 3 day holiday weekend
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[16:38:33] <JT-Work> Tom_itx: I'll have to check it out when I get home
[16:38:54] <Tom_itx> np
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[17:52:06] <skunkworks> question... How would I tell emc what tool is in the chain pocket ready to change? as of right now - if I turn on emc and want to change to the tool that is in the chain - I have to search for it first - while it is already prepped. (which means it has to spin all the way around 60 locations)
[17:55:22] <skunkworks> I am sure I am just missing something...
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[18:00:07] <cradek> [thinking outside the box] maybe the very first time your prep cycle runs, it should turn the chain backward a few pockets before starting the search.
[18:00:37] <cradek> you have a memoryless system right now and it would suck to screw that up and make it more fragile
[18:01:06] <skunkworks> heh - that would be great if it could. That would require some hydraulic finagling..
[18:01:18] <cradek> oh, darn, I figured it could go both ways.
[18:01:34] <skunkworks> well - I thought maybe there was a mechenism for that. If not - it isn't a big deal.
[18:02:09] <cradek> you'd have to make your ladder? do nothing on the first prep if it matched the memory
[18:02:16] <cradek> but I'm not entirely sure how you'd do the memory.
[18:02:25] <skunkworks> I could see keeping track of the last tool call - then checking first to see if the new tool has the same number as the old one.. then skip the prep cycle
[18:02:50] <skunkworks> right
[18:03:10] <cradek> I remember in the distant past someone wrote a memory hal component
[18:03:14] <Jymmm> barcode?
[18:03:15] <skunkworks> if ladder - though hal could write to the var file...
[18:04:00] <skunkworks> hmmm
[18:04:19] <skunkworks> would the memory be remembered from run to run?
[18:04:20] <cradek> you could easily? make a userland hal component that would save its values to a file upon seeing the rising edge of a "write" signal, and similarly for reading
[18:04:44] <cradek> I think someone did this but google doesn't agree with me
[18:04:49] <skunkworks> heh
[18:04:55] <archivist> can the reader read the current tool number before the prep?
[18:05:02] <skunkworks> no
[18:05:08] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Modified-CueCat-USB-Barcode-Scanner-Cue-Cat-reader-/280718571972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415c2179c4
[18:05:12] <archivist> fix it so it can :)
[18:05:22] <skunkworks> the reader is 3 or so pockets before the prep location
[18:05:31] <archivist> add another reader
[18:05:32] <cradek> and the chain has to be moving to read, right?
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[18:05:46] <skunkworks> there would have to be a way for the reader to move out of the way then - the tool arm would wipe it out
[18:05:47] <cradek> yep, a second reader is the real answer :-)
[18:05:59] <cradek> ok, then one new reader per tool change
[18:06:08] <skunkworks> heh
[18:06:17] <archivist> but if you can read the 3 hole away you know the offset
[18:06:21] <Jymmm> RFID Tags
[18:06:28] <skunkworks> I like the idea of a way to save the tool number in hal
[18:07:04] <cradek> just beware you'd be adding saved state and therefore fragility
[18:07:31] <skunkworks> Am I correct that there is no way to write to the var file from hal?
[18:07:41] <cradek> that is correct
[18:07:52] <cradek> var file is interpreter state - they are totally different worlds
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[18:10:38] <skunkworks> would halsampler be a good example to look at?
[18:10:52] <cradek> nope
[18:10:56] <skunkworks> heh
[18:11:02] <cradek> I think it's complicated
[18:11:07] <skunkworks> ah
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[18:13:16] <skunkworks> it would be cool if classic ladder had non-volatile memory
[18:18:36] <cradek> adding it to CL would be another possible approach, maybe cooler in the long run, but much harder
[18:22:40] <skunkworks> I bet
[18:23:11] <skunkworks> wow - there are a bunch more user contributed comps on the wiki
[18:23:24] <skunkworks> one to read motherboard sensors also... neat
[18:28:11] <Jymmm> "Is that a lug wrench in your pocket?" http://www.flixxy.com/hyundai-driving-skills.htm
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[18:31:51] <Jymmm> Dumb question... in a closed loop water system, is there a differential in pressure before/after an inline pressure pump? Or do I need something else (reservoir?) to have a differential.
[18:32:51] <andypugh> Yes, that really is a truly dumb question.
[18:34:04] <Jymmm> Tankless water heater has a 20-80PSI differential pressure switch to active the burner, so if I activate the pump, would it see a difference?
[18:35:00] <andypugh> Maybe, it depends in the flow restriction. Basically the pump pressure differential will be whatever pressure it takes to push the water flow rate through the system restrictions.
[18:35:48] <andypugh> You might need an adjustable restrictor valve on the far side of the high-pressure take-off.
[18:36:01] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[18:36:40] <andypugh> Can you not control the burner from the same controller as the pump? Actually, I guess that is less fail-safe.
[18:36:57] * skunkworks wonders if last tool prepped does get stored somewhere...
[18:37:06] <Jymmm> the pump is an add-on thing, not part of the water heater
[18:38:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: The issue is I'm using it closed loop, not typical down-the-drain
[18:40:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm trying to make a portable Heater, kind like the old school steam radiators they did in high-rise apartments.
[18:40:53] <Jymmm> just with hot water, not steam
[18:42:05] <andypugh> I am not sure what you mean, and have a feeling that you might be talking about a completely conventional central heating system
[18:42:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: I want to use a car heatercore as the "radiator", and the hot water heater as the heat source.
[18:43:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.eccotemp.com/gas_water_heater_continued.html
[18:44:34] <Jymmm> It requires 20 PSI minimum (differential) to trigger the burner
[18:44:57] <Jymmm> The L5 model
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[18:48:04] <andypugh> Actually, I think you will find it needs a 20psi differential to turn _off_ the burner.
[18:48:20] <Jymmm> No, to turn ON.
[18:48:59] <andypugh> Where does the tap go in the expected application?
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[18:49:50] <Jymmm> I'll replace the "shower head" with a heatercore, then back to an add-on pressure pump.
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[18:52:18] <andypugh> A normal "combi" boiler goes between the mains supply and the house taps(faucets). So, when you open the tap, the pressure drops, and the gas is turned on. It does look like this works differently, with the watr control on the inlet side.
[18:55:00] <Jymmm> Yeah, I just figured that since its closed-loop and in a perfect world, the entire loop would be pressurized, unless it would equal out "somehow"
[18:55:49] <andypugh> There can be no flow without a pressure differential to drive it.
[18:56:46] <Jymmm> Can I add an artificial differential somehow? So that when I turn the pressure pump on the switch would see it?
[18:57:12] <andypugh> Yes, a flow restrictor.
[18:57:27] <Jymmm> that's it?
[18:57:31] <andypugh> You might have enough restriction in the heat exchanger and radiator anyway.
[18:57:41] <Jymmm> Ah, ok. cool
[18:58:15] <Jymmm> I'm going to try and use a thermostat to trigger the pump
[18:58:32] <andypugh> Any reason not to use a normal propane heater?
[18:59:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, we have birds. So having a CO source plus propane indoors is a bit risky.
[18:59:59] <Jymmm> Using a radiator indoors, the worse issue we have is water leak.
[19:00:14] <Jymmm> keep the water heater and propane tank outside.
[19:00:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.amazon.com/Heater-MH18B-Portable-Big-Buddy/dp/B0002WRHE8/
[19:01:06] <andypugh> Electric heater not an option? You can get portable oil-filled electric radiators.
[19:01:38] <cradek> yeah those are nice. they are silent, and can't ignite curtains etc
[19:01:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: That dont output enough BTU's and I cna only run one little 1500W ceramic heater with my generator.
[19:02:10] <Jymmm> cradek: you have one?
[19:02:27] <cradek> I've got 2 or 4, depending on how you count
[19:02:41] <Jymmm> cradek: of the MR Heater Big Buddy?
[19:02:52] <cradek> when on propane at the old place, electric was cheaper heat
[19:02:57] <cradek> (weirdly)
[19:03:04] <Jymmm> cradek: Not here
[19:03:49] <Jymmm> cradek: you have THAT model propane heater?
[19:03:59] <cradek> what
[19:04:07] <cradek> I have used electric heaters
[19:04:23] <Jymmm> cradek: You have this model: Mr Heater MH18B ?
[19:04:39] <cradek> no
[19:04:46] <andypugh> I suspect cradek was replying to the comment from me immediately above his.
[19:04:46] <Jymmm> oh, just ones like it,
[19:04:52] <cradek> electric
[19:05:11] <cradek> yes what andypugh says
[19:05:15] <cradek> sorry for confusion
[19:05:19] <Jymmm> np
[19:05:28] <andypugh> I am fairly sure I could ignite curtains with a Mr Heater
[19:05:35] <Jymmm> This is basically emergency heating
[19:05:58] <cradek> a wood stove is nice for that
[19:06:02] <Jymmm> Furnace goes out at 9pm on a satuday of a three day week.
[19:06:11] <Jymmm> cradek: For aviary.
[19:06:15] <cradek> the problem with a wood stove is you still have it the rest of the time
[19:06:38] <Jymmm> We rent, so this has to be a portable solution, UNvented
[19:06:41] <cradek> Jymmm: what kind of furnace do you have?
[19:06:57] <Jymmm> cradek: gas wall furnacne
[19:07:17] <cradek> electric igniter? if so, get a spare igniter
[19:07:35] <Jymmm> Nope,it has to be 40 years old
[19:08:04] <Jymmm> The landlord is non-existant is the main issue.
[19:09:10] <Jymmm> We looked at this at first http://www.amazon.com/Heater-MH18B-Portable-Big-Buddy/dp/B0002WRHE8/ but the 20# external tank need to go outdoors
[19:09:57] <Jymmm> It's suppose to be "indoor safe" un-vented heater.
[19:10:13] <Jymmm> illegal in calif, but eh.
[19:10:48] <Jymmm> it's just the CO that I'm concerned with
[19:11:35] <Jymmm> Remember, the coal miners used to carry a cnary in the mines to tell them of a gas leak - same principal.
[19:11:43] <Jymmm> canary
[19:13:54] <andypugh> Odd bird, the canary. Named after a dog.
[19:14:07] <Jymmm> heh, never knew that
[19:15:34] <andypugh> Yeah, the Canary Islands are called after the latin for "Isle of Dogs" and the bird is named after the island.
[19:16:03] <Jymmm> Is it native to the Island?
[19:17:02] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, i wonder if it would be possible to write the current tool to a file and read it again on startup
[19:17:26] <Tom_itx> there should be any number of ways to write a file and read it
[19:18:07] <Tom_itx> i wish somebody with a fresh install would test my tutorial
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[19:20:52] <andypugh> Jymmm: Yes. They live wild there
[19:21:38] <Jymmm> k
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[19:31:08] <Tom_itx> don't tell them they're dogs
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[19:36:24] <Jymmm> we have bird dogs, and now dog birds!
[19:48:09] <andypugh> PCW will the ioport modules always be earlier in the idrom than the sserial modules?
[19:48:43] <andypugh> Or do I need to set up a "check and come back later if not"?
[19:48:55] <andypugh> (just noticed an assumption waiting to bite me)
[19:49:04] <PCW> No guarantee but I think ther are all like that (by chance/copy/paste)
[19:49:16] <andypugh> OK, I will check it explicitly.
[19:49:25] <PCW> s/ther/they/
[19:49:39] <PCW> that would be better
[19:50:40] <PCW> Finishing up the 7I69 manual which documents the discovery scheme
[19:51:17] <andypugh> Do you feel like making two bitfiles, one with sserial before ioport, and one with no ioports, or should I just assume my coding is flawless?
[19:51:49] <andypugh> (no ioports with sserial, that would need to be)
[19:51:55] <PCW> Nothing like writing a manual to find out that "boy thats dorky way to do things"
[19:52:03] <PCW> thats a
[19:52:13] <Tom_itx> manuals are fun
[19:52:39] <andypugh> Only if you are an organist
[19:52:56] <Tom_itx> or a car buff
[19:53:09] <PCW> I dont think it would even compile without I/O ports but I'm not sure
[19:53:54] <PCW> Ill make a 5I23 sserial config with IO ports last ( may take a bit of time)
[19:55:47] <PCW> "The packing of outgoing process data elements into these interface registers and unpacking of process data elements
[19:55:49] <PCW> from these interface registers is done in the order of process data descriptors listed in the PTOC"
[19:55:50] <PCW> That ought to scare off the users
[19:58:27] <andypugh> I have been struggling since monday with Seb's pathalogical test idroms. The 5i25 driver has been working all week, but crashing badly in the test suite.
[19:58:52] <andypugh> Freezing the whole PC style of crash...
[19:59:13] <andypugh> Oh, the joys of hacking kernel drivers ;-)
[19:59:48] <PCW> But since you dont have a 5I25 how far can you actually test?
[20:00:40] <andypugh> Well, I was relying on you for most of it.
[20:00:52] <PCW> (We just got our first 50 cards so I will send one with your SSERIAL bunch of cards)
[20:00:54] <PCW> only had the one proto before
[20:01:23] <andypugh> What I mean is that the 5i23 is working with a driver that now knows about the existence of 5i25
[20:01:54] <andypugh> To be honest, I don't think there is any need for me to have a 5i25. (and I can do without paying the import duty on cards I don't need)
[20:01:56] <PCW> Yeah that was may experience (5I20 also)
[20:02:25] <PCW> we _will_ send them as samples (0 value)
[20:02:34] <andypugh> That would be a big help.
[20:02:39] -!- theos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[20:03:42] <andypugh> Though I am going to need an 8i20 (to use). Perhaps I can order that and have the package declared value as the 8i20 value?
[20:04:03] <andypugh> As long as Lily doesn't do what she did last time and randomly double the value of everything!
[20:05:19] <PCW> We can just send you one but we are out now
[20:05:21] <PCW> (I'll have to watch Lily carefully (and Tess too she just sent out some 5I23s with brackets upside down)
[20:06:18] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: that is one option we had discussed. (saving the tool number to a file and re-reading it at startup)
[20:07:09] <cradek> I recommend saving the chain position after each successful move, and reading it when you need to
[20:07:30] <cradek> "at shutdown" and "at startup" aren't really the appropriate times
[20:07:51] <skunkworks> it would also be for calling the previous tool. (say I am only using 2 tools)
[20:07:53] <cradek> saving state only at successful happy program exit is a sure way to misery
[20:08:26] <skunkworks> I am not understanding...
[20:08:30] <Tom_itx> my point was to save to disk, you can read it when you wish but keep the file current
[20:08:47] <Tom_itx> T1 M6 .. write to file
[20:09:16] <Tom_itx> some machines have prefetch too
[20:09:32] <Tom_itx> something like that might work
[20:09:56] <Tom_itx> that's coming from the gcode file though
[20:10:28] <skunkworks> cradek: oh - I see - save only when there is a successful find of the tool. sure.
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[20:13:21] <skunkworks> it would also only be read when the tool prep is called.
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[20:32:38] <JT-Shop> Samson and Linus are home but the damm hoe won't start to get them off of the trailer :/
[20:33:21] <danielfalck> what are Samson and Linus?
[20:33:29] <danielfalck> big mills ?
[20:33:34] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop's been shopping i bet
[20:35:10] <skunkworks> back hoe?
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[20:37:13] <danielfalck> maybe they're big, lazy dogs :)
[20:38:43] <cradek> I imagined donkeys first
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[20:57:23] <skunkworks> cradek: one more issue... Do I know what tool is in the spindle? here is the situation. I bring the machine up - I don't know what tool is in the spindle. prep the next tool - say T1000 and do a tool change. what tool is now in the prep location?
[20:58:15] <cradek> if you reinvent the random toolchanger, you're being silly
[20:58:39] <cradek> I think you should choose between needing no information about what tool is where (what you have now), or keeping exact full information about the location of every tool, which is what random does already
[20:58:53] <skunkworks> that is want I wondering too - does random tool changer = 1 get me anywhere
[20:59:02] <cradek> then your prep-the-pocket-that's-already-there will cause no motion
[20:59:50] <cradek> well you might have to home your chain, depending on how it would sense position
[20:59:55] <cradek> so you might trade one problem for another
[21:00:30] <skunkworks> I wonder if it would matter. would emc care how the tool was retreved? (in random tool changer mode)
[21:01:06] <skunkworks> it would keep track of the pockets - but in reality - the pocket would not matter to the chain.
[21:01:38] <cradek> interesting question. in random mode, I think iocontrol gives you both requested pocket and requested tool upon prep.
[21:01:59] <cradek> so, you could use either one, I guess
[21:02:05] <cradek> I'm having trouble thinking it through
[21:02:16] <skunkworks> And I would still use requested tool to find it - and let emc swap pockets
[21:02:28] <skunkworks> so am I ;)
[21:02:38] <cradek> and it will put the requested tool into pocket 0, which is information that's maintained
[21:02:43] <skunkworks> seems like it might be just what I need
[21:02:55] <cradek> I'm not sure it solves your problem of a full chain revolution upon startup, though
[21:03:09] <skunkworks> who cares what pocket in the chain emc thinks it is in
[21:03:24] <cradek> I've lost track of what problem you're trying to solve
[21:03:31] <skunkworks> probably not - but it gets me a lot closer
[21:03:52] <skunkworks> I think I have come up with a few.
[21:04:23] <skunkworks> I might have to goof around with this if I get a chance this weekend.
[21:05:14] <andypugh> With random=1 the tool table contains the mapping between pocket numbers and tool numbers. That means that if you know what tool is at the reader you know what pocket is at the reader, so you know what pocket is at the change position, so you know what tool is at the change position.
[21:06:07] <cradek> bbl
[21:07:24] <andypugh> Keeping the table and the tools synchronised is left as an exercise for the student. But the solution might involve a routine to re-map the chain whenever you rearrange the tools in the chain.
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[21:08:53] <skunkworks> If initally I made the tool number and the pocket number the same - would I now know what tool is in the chain by what tool is in the spindle? it might be too late in the day to think like this
[21:09:28] <skunkworks> or would it be the other way around...
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[21:12:04] <andypugh> Don't ask me :-)
[21:15:20] <skunkworks> oh well - bbl
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[21:29:15] * Tom_itx gives skunkworks a rubicks cube
[21:29:39] <JT-Shop> Samson is in the building... whew
[21:29:56] <Tom_itx> so what did you get exactly?
[21:30:36] <JT-Shop> my manual lathe and phase converter from the other shop
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[21:36:04] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/170733
[21:36:36] <Tom_itx> i may reload my atom from the live cd to test my tutorial
[21:36:46] <Tom_itx> so i know i have a fresh install
[21:37:00] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You know that's a really nice workshop. DO you want to adopt me?
[21:37:15] <JT-Shop> sure
[21:37:27] <JT-Shop> bring your own beer though
[21:37:29] <Tom_itx> i'm closer
[21:37:43] <Tom_itx> is it first come first serve?
[21:37:52] <JT-Shop> there is room for all
[21:37:59] <Tom_itx> so you say for now
[21:38:17] <JT-Shop> the photo does add a few pounds you know
[21:38:43] <andypugh> Yeah, from this angle is looks fairly unergonomic
[21:39:03] <andypugh> (ponder) has anyone ever seen a left-handed lathe?
[21:39:11] <Tom_itx> nope
[21:39:45] <Tom_itx> those pics you posted were though weren't they?
[21:39:57] <Tom_itx> seems those brits do alot of things backwards
[21:40:24] <JT-Shop> yea, that is the back side with the splash pan off
[21:41:18] <Tom_itx> nice worktable
[21:41:33] <Tom_itx> mine's only 1/2" plate
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[21:42:42] <JT-Shop> yea, it weighs about 2500 lbs
[21:43:03] <Tom_itx> i actually got mine as a kid from the neighbor
[21:43:13] <Tom_itx> he worked for christopher steel before they closed
[21:43:20] <JT-Shop> 4" x 1/2" wall tubing and 1" top... was a brand new machine that got scrapped
[21:43:38] <Tom_itx> that's just a bit overkill
[21:44:07] <Tom_itx> ok, gotta give someone a ride. bak later
[21:45:26] <andypugh> Some web searching suggests that some watchmakers lathes were headstock-to-right.
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[22:06:49] <andypugh> Amazing machines, organs are. Basically a matrix, where each key on the manuals and footboards controls a row of pipes for each note, and each stop controls which columns of "voices" are enabled. A bit like a diode matrix. If you watch this video you can see how presets select selections of stops too.
[22:06:50] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MEvU5V_HEI
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[22:17:04] <StaticSyphon> Hello :)
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[22:21:20] <PCW> andypugh freeby.mesanet.com/backwards.bit is svss6_8 for 5I23 but with I/O ports last in MDs
[22:21:34] <andypugh> Aye, working on it now.
[22:22:04] <andypugh> Hi StaticSyphon
[22:22:43] <StaticSyphon> I'm having trouble installing the packaged ubuntu 10.x w/emc onto a machine with a raid. GParted shows the disk and I can partition it, but when I run the included installer from the desktop, no device appears at all.
[22:22:59] <StaticSyphon> Anyone have any thoughts or tips as to what the issue might be?
[22:23:12] <StaticSyphon> Again, this is a raid 1, using an Adaptec
[22:23:47] <StaticSyphon> Wondering if there is some kind of driver that might need to be enabled? Strange that GParted would see it though.
[22:40:45] <andypugh> Seems altogether odd
[22:41:18] <andypugh> The RAID ought to be irrelevant
[22:42:01] <andypugh> Are you using LiveCD or .deb?
[22:45:41] <Tom_itx> is 10.04 still the current LiveCD ver?
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[22:49:31] <andypugh> Yes
[22:49:49] <andypugh> And it will be for some time, 10,04 is an LTS.
[22:50:17] <andypugh> StaticSyphon: You still there?
[22:50:31] <jimbo132> When I press the home key to home the Z axis on emc setup as a lathe It homes the axis where it is at. The X axis is fine. confused
[22:51:36] <andypugh> jimbo132: I think it is likely that your INI file does not specify a Z home position, or the Z home_search)velocity is zero.
[22:54:18] <jimbo132> Both of those are set still no go
[22:55:39] <andypugh> You do know that Z is axis_2?
[22:55:53] <andypugh> (Not obvious with a lathe)
[22:56:06] <andypugh> There is no axis_1
[22:56:41] <andypugh> Do you also have axis.2.home-sw-in (or whatever it is called) connected in the HAL file
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[23:04:08] <StaticSyphon> andypugh, yes, still here :)
[23:04:33] <StaticSyphon> I've been doing research and it looks like I need a specific driver for the adaptec 1420sa raid card
[23:05:01] <andypugh> Do you have it working with your existing config? what is that config?
[23:05:19] <andypugh> (And, do you really need it?)
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[23:05:43] <StaticSyphon> Talking to me or jimbo132? ^^
[23:05:51] <andypugh> You (SS)
[23:06:18] <StaticSyphon> Ah, yeah, it's raid 1 and I want the fail over security
[23:06:48] <andypugh> I will warn you now that it is _very_ likely that you will want a separate, dedicated, cheap, disposable PC for the CNC controller in the future.
[23:10:07] <StaticSyphon> Yeah, I don't mind having a cheap setup, but this computer will be offsite and it will be hard to access it locally. So if something happens, I'll have to walk someone through "whatever" disaster recovery solution I have
[23:10:32] <StaticSyphon> meaning if I have a raid and can just restore, that will be the best way to save from immediate data loss
[23:11:22] <andypugh> The likely failure modes involve large lumps of metal and/or fire. I am not sure RAID is the best solution.
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[23:13:47] <andypugh> it might be better to store the ngc files on a remote RAID server and only have a static config on the controller. (that you can instantly re-image onto new hardware)
[23:15:31] <Mendelbilld> I have this cheap chinese TB6560 it has an output for spindle i cant find info about that output, could i use that output for controlling a relay for my DC spindle ?
[23:15:52] <StaticSyphon> Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean by "static config", just like a regular install on a basic hdd?
[23:16:51] <andypugh> Pretty much, but with the custom config files too, all imaged and stored in several locations.
[23:17:35] <andypugh> Mendelbilld: Possibly, or it might be an analogue output.
[23:18:23] <StaticSyphon> Yeah, I'm doing that in addition to the RAID. I know it's totally overkill, but I need to have the redundancy.
[23:18:35] <andypugh> Trace the pin back through the tracks, what components are involved?
[23:18:44] <Mendelbilld> andypugh: its 3 connectors on it GND and MO and MIN, makes sense to you ?
[23:19:11] <Mendelbilld> its a relay there too, i can hear it click
[23:19:20] <Mendelbilld> when i activate spindle
[23:19:25] <andypugh> Motor Out, Motor IN>
[23:19:27] <andypugh> ?
[23:19:32] <StaticSyphon> How would the re-imaging process work, because again, I would have to walk someone through the process over the phone.
[23:20:00] <andypugh> I am not sure. Sorry.
[23:20:42] <StaticSyphon> No worries, I appreciate the ideas, not very familiar with recovery options on linux, let alone emc :)
[23:20:50] <andypugh> But I assume that there is a Linux equivalent of (for example) Acronis that can restore any HD to be a perfect copy of how another looked at one point in time.
[23:21:18] <andypugh> By the way "StaticSyphon"? Caver?
[23:21:20] <Tom_itx> ghost
[23:21:23] <Tom_itx> ?
[23:21:26] <Mendelbilld> andypugh:trying to figure out the manual but *lol* not much info
[23:22:03] <Mendelbilld> guess ill ad a spindle switch instead
[23:22:08] <andypugh> If you are lucky, it is providing the three terminals of a virtual potentimeter for a VFD.
[23:22:40] <StaticSyphon> Yeah, I'm familiar with ghost. That requires having a disk and walking someone through the interface on that is a little sketch. But, it definitely is on the disaster recovery list. haha
[23:23:01] <Mendelbilld> ;)
[23:23:23] <andypugh> StaticSyphon: Well, you can post them a fresh HDD..
[23:24:17] <StaticSyphon> Yep, that's also on the list, but low on the list because it requires a couple days of down time.
[23:24:43] <StaticSyphon> currently thinking 2 hard drives or raids that are both bootable
[23:24:57] <StaticSyphon> if one gets trashed, the secondary can be booted to
[23:25:05] <StaticSyphon> allowing me to log in remotely and fix the first one
[23:25:49] <StaticSyphon> Not sure if I would be able to fully recover the 1st just from remote access on the 2nd. Like if there are any boot screen options, then I couldn't do it completely remote...
[23:26:10] <andypugh> How paranoid do you want to be? A complete spare PC + interfaces is an option, especially if you get to charge for it.
[23:26:43] <andypugh> ssh can do an awful lot.
[23:27:17] <StaticSyphon> Yeah, that would be at the top of the list, along with a VM option.
[23:27:44] <StaticSyphon> also, making 2 hdd's
[23:27:51] <StaticSyphon> and just swapping the fresh one out
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[23:28:27] <StaticSyphon> I just want to be able to recover the data from the first drive, and I know ubuntu has a backup solution
[23:28:43] <andypugh> To back up, it seems that supporting RAID on the actual emc2 controller might be difficult (or, it might be trivial)
[23:30:31] <Valen> sorry i came in on the end of this whats up with raid?
[23:33:23] <andypugh> Apparently not supported in a LiveCD boot
[23:34:20] <StaticSyphon> Well it is to some extent
[23:34:23] <andypugh> I assume that setting up the builbot link and using apt-get doesn't install the patched kernel?
[23:34:27] <StaticSyphon> just no my card: adaptec 1420sa
[23:35:22] <StaticSyphon> Correct, it doesn't
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[23:57:54] <andypugh> StaticSyphon: If this is a commercial job, does it make sense to swap to a RAID card that is supportd by default?
[23:58:17] <StaticSyphon> Yeah, that's what I'm looking at doing now
[23:58:37] <StaticSyphon> Still adaptec, but they have a 6xx series that has a driver for ubuntu
[23:58:54] <StaticSyphon> just ridiculous though because they're like $500+
[23:59:07] <StaticSyphon> and as you said, it's just the controller haha
[23:59:21] <StaticSyphon> but I guess if the priority of the customer is no down time then, oh well