#emc | Logs for 2011-08-31

[00:02:42] <PCW> With the single error (bot no start) port_state is 0x01
[00:03:13] -!- theorb [theorb!~theorb@] has joined #emc
[00:03:17] <andypugh> 1 is normal runnng
[00:03:28] <andypugh> So the driver _thinks_ the board is running
[00:03:39] <andypugh> show thread
[00:03:42] <andypugh> Sorry
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[00:05:19] <andypugh> Which red LED? I might have the same thing here, but with no error messages at all
[00:05:57] <PCW> Yeah but the link is not up (no serial data red LED on, green LED off)
[00:07:27] <andypugh> I have red and green, but the yellow indicator LEDs aren't lighting.
[00:07:47] <PCW> If you have red your dead
[00:08:22] <PCW> good means two green LEDs
[00:09:07] <PCW> I think I have the 7I64 watchdog set for 200 ms as well
[00:10:38] <PCW> (W4 up W5 down) = 210 mS
[00:12:30] <andypugh> Hmm, I pulled the cable and no error messages!
[00:12:54] <Tom_itx> what would the associated file be for the PIN_SVST2_7I47_8.vhd?
[00:13:08] <PCW> well that pretty good signal integrity over the ether
[00:13:25] <PCW> maybe with a 48 on the end
[00:13:42] <Tom_itx> err yes
[00:14:05] <Tom_itx> you said there are a pair of files for each
[00:14:21] <PCW> SVST2_4_7I47_48.vhd?
[00:14:53] <PCW> No both the MD and PD are in that file (since they have to match)
[00:14:56] <andypugh> I am starting to wish that the EMC2 machine wasn't upstairs, wasn't on the floor in the corner, and had a mouse and keyboard attached. This is being rather too much effort
[00:15:18] <Tom_itx> alright
[00:15:37] <Tom_itx> so if i added a 2nd 7i47 to the 7i43 is that possible?
[00:15:38] <PCW> Yeah I just doubleclick on the penguin
[00:15:42] <Tom_itx> and would i need to patch the functions to the upper pins?
[00:15:57] <Tom_itx> from 24..47
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[00:16:18] <PCW> YOu need to block copy the top 24 pins over the bottom and edit the MD to match
[00:16:30] <Tom_itx> yeah
[00:16:46] <Tom_itx> both being in the .vhd file
[00:17:10] <Tom_itx> i found about 6 of those files in various directories in the zip
[00:17:16] <PCW> ( change the number of modules)
[00:17:17] <PCW> also you need to change the channel #s of the new 24..47 pins
[00:17:44] <Tom_itx> this is purely academic...
[00:18:21] <PCW> well it will either not compile or the driver will barf if things dont match
[00:19:20] <Tom_itx> like the encoders etc
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[00:20:54] <Tom_itx> like the stepgen channels would move from 0..2 to 3..5
[00:20:55] <Tom_itx> for example
[00:21:08] <PCW> well for example the original has 4 encoders, if you duplicate the 7I47 function, you need to change the 4 to an 8
[00:21:35] <PCW> (in the MD)
[00:21:36] <PCW> Yes in the PD
[00:22:16] <PCW> I thnik that pinout has 4 stepgens /7I47 and 2 PWMgens
[00:23:16] <PCW> so when you are all done you have something like SVST4_8_7I47X2_48
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[00:24:29] <Danimal_garage|2> hmm i think it's time to rebuild the arm on my toolchanger
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[00:25:50] <atom1> logger[psha],
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[00:25:52] <Danimal_garage|2> i doubt anyone has pulled it apart in 30 years
[00:26:53] <Tom_itx> damn irc
[00:27:02] <Danimal_garage|2> i got booted too
[00:27:10] <Tom_itx> logger[psha]
[00:27:28] <Tom_itx> always happens at the best times too
[00:28:29] <Tom_itx> MD being the module description and the PD being the pin description i presume
[00:28:36] <PCW> Yes
[00:28:47] <Tom_itx> doesn't look that difficult
[00:28:54] <PCW> its not
[00:29:58] <Tom_itx> then what is added to the firmware.txt file so it gets recognized and compiled?
[00:30:11] <PCW> the MD stuff could be more automated so you only change the PD and the MD gets built
[00:30:26] <PCW> Not sure since I dont do it that way
[00:30:31] <Tom_itx> not on my watch :)
[00:30:40] <Tom_itx> i'm a mere rookie
[00:30:52] <andypugh> PCW: I checked out master and recompiled, and this time it worked.
[00:31:01] <atom1> i43_400 SV8 SVST4_12 SVST4_4 SVST4_6 TPEN4_5
[00:31:02] <andypugh> Let me try a few more times
[00:31:14] <Tom_itx> that for example builds the basic set of pin files
[00:31:53] <Tom_itx> maybe a SVST2_4 ?
[00:32:19] <PCW> That I do not know...
[00:32:33] <Tom_itx> gotcha
[00:32:51] <Tom_itx> i wonder who put that setup together
[00:32:51] <Tom_itx> they would know
[00:33:10] <PCW> Andy its intermittent might start 10 times and then fail to start 3 times in a row
[00:33:48] <PCW> You could also look at the python scripts
[00:34:03] <andypugh> exit
[00:34:29] <andypugh> Wrong window...
[00:34:32] <Tom_itx> if i knew more about what i was looking for i would.. all in time i suppose
[00:34:57] <Tom_itx> ok, thanks for getting me this far
[00:35:16] <PCW> dose the readme say much about the build process?
[00:35:24] <PCW> does
[00:35:38] <Tom_itx> i honestly haven't had time to read thru it all
[00:35:47] <Tom_itx> i was lucky to get xilinx working last night
[00:36:11] <Tom_itx> on the 10.04 install
[00:36:18] <PCW> Its Jeplers work
[00:36:50] <PCW> I have enough fights with ISE I dont need any more...
[00:36:56] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:39:46] <andypugh> Recompiling v2.5 now, then I will check it with the non-24 width port patch. The paranoid in me is wondering if there is a problem allocating the sserial pins with the new patch
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[00:42:44] <Danimal_garage|2> wow, the innards of this toolchanger are pretty cool
[00:43:03] <Danimal_garage|2> definitely some cool engineering for the early 80's
[00:43:04] <Tom_itx> don't get lost in there
[00:44:47] <Tom_itx> prior engineering got us to the moon
[00:46:01] <Danimal_garage|2> so they say
[00:46:27] <andypugh> I don't think mechanical engineering has moved on a lot since the 1950s, really.
[00:46:51] <Tom_itx> somewhat my point
[00:47:24] <andypugh> Product engineering has, rather, I suppose.
[00:47:30] <mikegg> I did it
[00:47:41] <Tom_itx> you're to blame then
[00:48:01] <mikegg> i copied and pasted things in the VHD file and was able to get a bit file that has part of what I need
[00:48:04] <Danimal_garage|2> yea, lazy old people
[00:48:39] <Tom_itx> mikegg, did you change the name at all in the firmware.txt file?
[00:48:54] <mikegg> now, does a PWMGEN need to be tied to certain pins to work with a 7i33? yes, methinks
[00:48:55] <Tom_itx> i'm curious how to add files to that
[00:49:24] <mikegg> I took out everything but SVTP6_7I39 I think
[00:49:29] <Tom_itx> check it's pin functions but probaly so
[00:50:13] <mikegg> *and i20
[00:50:46] <Tom_itx> i'm just wondering how the descriptors there match up to the actual files
[00:52:06] <mikegg> I copied a line from another VHD from the MD section with somethings about PWMGEN that I noticed wasn't in SVTP6_7I39
[00:52:39] <mikegg> then I coped some things about PWMGEN in the next section and stuck it where I thought it made sense
[00:53:25] <mikegg> I had to change some "0A" and "0B" things to "00" and "01"
[00:53:34] <mikegg> and it worked
[00:53:44] <mikegg> time for some celebratory ramen
[00:54:47] <andypugh> PCW: The problem my end appears to be the latest changes I have made to the 5i25 support patch. It's rather tedious to test, though. (correlation between different compiles..)
[00:54:55] <Danimal_garage|2> this thing was pretty dry on grease, sure that wasn't helping
[00:56:10] <andypugh> PCW: No, the evidence is that somehow the 5i25 patch (latest version that only I have) breaks smart serial.
[00:57:30] <mikegg> Tom_itx: we need to put this stuff in the wiki. been talking about it for like four days now. heh
[01:11:39] <mikegg> ah, I think the descriptors in firmwares.txt match up one to one with the PIN_*.vhd files
[01:12:31] <Tom_itx> i was reading the script and see that
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[01:51:05] <KimK> frysteev: Are you around?
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[01:54:18] <Tom_itx> ok that appears to have worked
[01:56:42] <mikegg> cool
[01:57:01] <KimK> Tom_itx: I'll look forward to chatting with you about Xilinx and related items sometime. I'm interested in learning more about that.
[01:57:28] <Tom_itx> well if i can do it i believe anyone can. i'm such a noob at this
[01:57:52] <Tom_itx> it's rather straighforward once you find the pieces
[01:58:28] <KimK> And 9.2 is what you want? To avoid missing out on the older ones?
[01:58:33] <Tom_itx> i haven't done alot with xilinx
[01:58:39] <Tom_itx> yes
[01:58:50] <Tom_itx> newer ones exclude the 5i20 i believe
[01:59:05] <Tom_itx> it's documented in the readme i think
[01:59:12] <KimK> OK, thanks. I think I had them send me the 14.2(?) DVD, but I haven't done anything with it yet.
[01:59:25] <Tom_itx> there are a couple the 9.2 won't build
[01:59:30] <Tom_itx> newer board probably
[01:59:40] <Tom_itx> so it depends on your setup
[01:59:49] <KimK> I guess you can have multiple versions installed at one time?
[01:59:59] <Tom_itx> no need to really
[02:00:12] <Tom_itx> i suppose you could but i haven't tried
[02:00:19] <KimK> OK.
[02:00:47] <Tom_itx> i should dump it all now and see if i can recreate it
[02:01:26] <Tom_itx> the problem i was having the other day was more access than anything
[02:01:39] <Tom_itx> i'm not used to linux so much
[02:01:50] <Tom_itx> the whole sudo thing got me
[02:02:20] <Tom_itx> i may try building it in windows next
[02:03:31] <KimK> Oh, sudo, sure. I imagine someone has shown you the famous XKCD cartoon on sudo by now? http://xkcd.com/149/
[02:04:04] <KimK> (hover your mouse for the punch line)
[02:04:04] <Tom_itx> my server is pure debian so i wasn't used to that loading ubuntu
[02:04:18] <Jymmm> KimK: Make me a steak biotch!
[02:04:36] <KimK> Jymmm: No.
[02:05:07] <KimK> You forgot sudo (wouldn't have helped anyway, lol)
[02:05:12] <Jymmm> KimK: Put a cap in yo ass... Make me a steak biotch!
[02:05:53] <KimK> sudo steak & lobster?
[02:06:40] <Jymmm> KimK: for you, canned tuna and round smeet
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[02:06:45] <Jymmm> ground
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[02:08:17] <Tom_itx> what board is TPEN4_* ?
[02:08:25] <KimK> I went to a Mexican fast food restaurant lately. You know it's a good one when you order beef tacos and they ask, "shredded or ground"?
[02:08:56] <Danimal_garage|2> they ask that at taco bell
[02:09:16] <Tom_itx> they just ask. you don't really get it
[02:09:23] <KimK> Really? I haven't been there in a long time. I should go and check it out.
[02:09:41] <Jymmm> KimK: and you pay 10x more for it too
[02:09:46] <Danimal_garage|2> well i don't think you're actually supposed to ask for a "beef taco"
[02:10:01] <KimK> Tom_itx: I don't know what board that is.
[02:10:06] <Danimal_garage|2> usally i think they say carne asada or something
[02:10:15] <Jymmm> Taco Bell doens't have shredded beef
[02:10:17] <KimK> Tell us when you find out
[02:10:24] <Jymmm> It beef in a bag
[02:10:26] <Jymmm> it's
[02:10:32] <Tom_itx> YO PCW!
[02:10:35] <Danimal_garage|2> kinda like you :)
[02:10:40] <Jymmm> pre cooked
[02:10:57] <Jymmm> open bag, dump in steam table, serve.
[02:11:03] <Danimal_garage|2> mmmmm
[02:11:11] <Danimal_garage|2> you're making me hungry
[02:11:32] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: You ever hit Chino?
[02:11:42] <Danimal_garage|2> nope
[02:11:54] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: Ontario, any of that area?
[02:12:05] <Danimal_garage|2> not so much
[02:12:25] <frysteev> ola, someone rang?
[02:12:34] <frysteev> KimK: ing?
[02:12:35] <Danimal_garage|2> that's riverside county, right?
[02:13:11] <KimK> frysteev: After looking things over with Andy last weekend, I can see it taking me a month or two of weekends to get it done. So if you're in a hurry, maybe go encoders. But if you don't mind waiting, then there you go.
[02:13:18] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: In Chino, off Hwy 60 and Central Ave, there's a place called Plaza Guardalajara, Go sometime and ask for a red all beef burrito. No, San Bernardino County.
[02:13:55] <frysteev> KimK: thanks for the status update
[02:14:16] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: It's one block North of Hwy 60 on Central Ave.
[02:14:18] <Danimal_garage|2> same difference, both suck lol
[02:14:23] <KimK> frysteev: If anything changes, I'll let you know.
[02:14:43] <Danimal_garage|2> never really go through there, and if i do, i drive fast and lock the doors
[02:14:46] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: SB Co is the largest county in the country .
[02:15:00] <KimK> frysteev: And please let me know what you decide, so I know how much pressure is on, lol.
[02:15:11] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: Dude, that's LA Co, not SB/Riv
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[02:15:37] <KimK> Back to the shop for a bit.
[02:15:43] <frysteev> well, im stuck with resolvers, so i may have to do resolver to encoder converters and use the 7148,
[02:15:44] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: I10 near LAX you have have kevlar
[02:15:55] <Tom_L> KimK, you still in town?
[02:16:02] <Danimal_garage|2> i don't go to LA either
[02:16:10] <Danimal_garage|2> i stick to San Diego lol
[02:16:16] <frysteev> right now still trying to figue out how much of the existing servo drives and controls can be salvaged
[02:16:17] <KimK> Tom_L: Yes, still here.
[02:16:29] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: SD has its areas too.
[02:16:35] <Tom_L> must be some project you're working on there
[02:17:25] <KimK> frysteev: Probably motors and drives usable, usually are anyway.
[02:17:52] <KimK> Tom_L: You're here too?
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[02:18:12] <KimK> Ah, one and the same.
[02:18:20] <Tom_itx> as is atom1
[02:18:32] <Danimal_garage|2> i'm not worried about the ghettos
[02:18:33] <KimK> OK, thanks.
[02:18:49] <Danimal_garage|2> i just don't want to breathe that dirty ass air
[02:19:03] <KimK> frysteev: What city are you in?
[02:20:03] <KimK> frysteev: maybe order your Mesa stuff the last thing, after everything else is ready?
[02:20:15] <frysteev> toronto,
[02:20:44] <KimK> OK. Any other EMC users there to help you?
[02:20:48] <frysteev> all the existing boards have some old 16 bit isa type backplane we may try and hack in there
[02:21:26] <frysteev> the old cpu in it has a TON of i/o. but the cpu is garbage
[02:21:58] <KimK> OK. We can chat about it more later. I've got to get back to the shop for a bit.
[02:22:24] <frysteev> cool ttyl
[02:22:32] <Danimal_garage|2> ugh, i can't believe how much air can hide in a 2x6" hydraullic cylnder
[02:22:49] <Danimal_garage|2> takes days to bleed this damn thing
[02:23:10] <atom1> anybody pluggin stuff in might like these http://au.element14.com/fci/65801-006lf/socket-idc-planar-6way/dp/1103977?Ntt=1103977
[02:23:18] <Tom_itx> idc to ribbon
[02:25:17] <Tom_itx> i suppose most apps here use screw terminals though
[02:26:28] <Danimal_garage|2> must be making progress, it FINALLY finished the entire stroke without any help
[02:26:55] <Danimal_garage|2> transmission fluid seems to be better than power steering fluid
[02:27:05] <Valen> Danimal_garage|2: counterweight?
[02:27:23] <Danimal_garage|2> huh?
[02:27:28] <Tom_itx> try normal hydraulic fluid
[02:27:33] <Danimal_garage|2> there's no counterweights
[02:27:51] <Danimal_garage|2> Tom_itx: i called hydraulic places and they said to use tranny fluid
[02:28:09] <Valen> people use hydraulics and such to "counterweight" their z axis
[02:28:36] <Danimal_garage|2> ah, no, it's the cylnder that moves the toolchanger arm
[02:29:01] <Danimal_garage|2> it's rather finiky
[02:29:19] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage|2, it could also depend on what type of seals are in the cylinder
[02:29:25] <Tom_itx> as to the fluid use
[02:30:44] <Danimal_garage|2> well i called 3 places, they all said tranny fluid
[02:31:12] <Tom_itx> go for it then
[02:31:24] <Danimal_garage|2> there's no data online, it's a 30 year old unit
[02:34:21] <Danimal_garage|2> i'm really not sure if i'm even bleeding it right
[02:34:49] <Danimal_garage|2> it's pneumatic powered
[02:35:28] <Danimal_garage|2> there's a line going from one of the hyraulic cylnder to the other, with a flow control valve in the middle
[02:35:58] <Danimal_garage|2> there's a tee on one end, and it goes to a small reservour with a check valve
[02:36:49] <Danimal_garage|2> i've been cycling it back and forth and it sucks down some oil from the reservour every once in a while
[02:37:04] <Danimal_garage|2> i just keep cycling it and topping that off
[02:37:33] <Danimal_garage|2> if i open the check valve, it seems to release some pressure, along with some air bubbles
[02:38:09] <Danimal_garage|2> it fills the reservour again (or overflows it). then it sucks the fluid back down as i cycle it again
[02:38:44] <Danimal_garage|2> not sure if i should be cracking that check valve open at all
[02:39:23] <Danimal_garage|2> i can push it down with a screwdriver to open the check vallve
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[03:20:09] <Danimal_garage|2> seems like it's getting better....
[03:21:35] <mikegg> cncbasher: were you asking about spindle speed / pyvcp the other night?
[03:24:11] <Danimal_garage|2> yay, i think it's good now.
[03:24:27] <Danimal_garage|2> the arm finishes the cycle every time now
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[05:28:59] <RyanS> so with a CNC mill, lets say you clamp your workpiece in position X, you program the software to start at position X, but actually you clamped the workpiece 0.05mm from where you told the software it was.... question is how can the software know whether workpiece is? is not like you have sensors or some sort on the spindle unless you have something really advanced
[05:30:06] <RyanS> *where the workpiece is
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[05:30:21] <ds3> you could use softjaws to setup stops
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[05:32:06] <RyanS> You mean a way of clamping where you finish up placing your part in the same spot each time?
[05:32:20] <ds3> no
[05:32:26] <ds3> install soft jaws
[05:32:46] <ds3> put in a cutter. cut the softjaws to hold your stock
[05:33:18] <ds3> as long as the vise is not moved, you know the edges are 1 Radius of the endmill away from where you cut it
[05:36:51] <RyanS> So you position the spindle with an edge finder, 'zero out' the software so as far as the software is concerned all measurements start from where you zero it out?
[05:39:42] <ds3> if you are using an edge finder, it shouldn't matter... only an error on the edge finder would get you really off
[05:41:38] <RyanS> hmm would you say getting your workplace correctly aligned is more critical in CNC than manual ?
[05:47:19] <ds3> nope. it is just the same
[05:47:33] <ds3> tram head. align vise
[05:48:04] <ds3> put edge finder in spindle. locate back of vise as the 0 for Y.
[05:48:15] <ds3> put in stock. locate edge of stock as X 0
[05:48:38] <ds3> slowly lower tool til a dowel pin just passes.
[05:48:59] <ds3> only diff. for manual is I might be able to do a touch off instead of an edge finder
[05:52:11] <RyanS> ok.
[05:54:11] <RyanS> ouch, I was somewhat dismissive when I read that Wabeco machines are out of reach for most people - until I discovered their basic mill is $7,000
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[06:08:44] <awallin> I think they started at 3-4000 euros a few years back. but that may well translate to 7k us...
[06:11:13] <Jymmm> What do you guys think of a radiator heater with a propane burner for emergency heating?
[06:11:29] <RyanS> I wonder how much of that has to do with a) European products generally being expensive, b) the 'German engineering' factor
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[06:28:36] <awallin> funny thing seen on chinese import stuff: "germany quality"
[06:28:56] <awallin> when they can't get away with a "made in germany" sticker then that's the next best thing :)
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[06:44:30] <RyanS> can you get better value for money sourcing stepper motors, electronic kits etc and adding them to a manual mill, rather then turnkey? I'm guessing you could
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[07:14:55] <automata> RyanS, The problem with retro-fitting is the machine will never feel right...
[07:15:40] <automata> The lead-screws were never meant to be motor driven... and the bed will also feel wrong when you retro-fit.
[07:16:45] <automata> As many people have mentioned in this channel and elsewhere, I will just echo their sentiment: Get a secondhand CNC mill which has a broken controller
[07:16:58] <automata> and replace the broken controller with EMC
[07:17:22] <cncbasher> mikegg; yes
[07:18:29] <RyanS> so your probably not saving any money retrofitted, taking into account the hassles involved
[07:18:54] <automata> I have been dissuaded to try this by many people...
[07:19:38] <automata> I still tried this once and ended up with an un-usable manual mill and no CNC goodness
[07:20:38] <automata> it was a disaster.. But you have to take into account that I am not a very deft mechanical engineer... so the project was over-ambitious for me to start with...
[07:20:50] <archivist> my 5 axix mill is made of manual stuff with added steppers, cheap maybe but it has all the warts of backlash
[07:22:10] <archivist> my lathe being a real cnc before I got it already had ballscrews, so the retrofit was simple
[07:23:23] <RyanS> yeah i see.. actually I'm looking at a desktop machine for use in a study so nothing hulking big, I just dont know if small model engines have any need for mild steel
[07:26:11] <RyanS> and conversion kits including ball screws still have issues?
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[07:37:47] <RyanS> eg: http://www.cncfusion.com/minimill1.html
[07:38:32] <Valen> the biggest problem I see with conversions is most of the time people start with crap
[07:38:34] <Valen> like us
[07:39:32] <Valen> also awallin i have heard of "mad in germany" stickers on chinese stuff
[07:39:42] <Valen> they opened a factory and named it germany
[07:40:03] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JakeAndRussells is our conversion
[07:40:14] <Valen> if we had our time over we would just make a mill instead
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[07:42:17] <archivist> RyanS, also what is your helpers skill level
[07:44:00] <Valen> I wouldn't say dont convert something, but if you start with crap adding CnC will just make it CnC crap ;->
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[07:45:59] <archivist> RyanS, what country ?
[07:48:02] <RyanS> helper is fairly competent with most tools, soldering, welding actually I live with parents but Dad bought one of those combo lathes which is ok, but the mill is crap, cant get the spindle keyway to lock
[07:48:09] <RyanS> Australia
[07:49:09] <RyanS> hes never used the mill, but has done a bit on lathe
[07:49:44] <archivist> ok some clue and interest, that helps
[07:50:54] <Valen> RyanS: where in aus?
[07:50:57] <Valen> sydney here
[07:51:04] <RyanS> Melbourne
[07:51:12] <Valen> bit of a hike
[07:51:37] <Valen> you should look at joining robot wars if your into this stuff ;-.
[07:51:44] <Valen> www.robowars.org/forum
[07:51:50] <RyanS> why are machine tools so pricey here..
[07:51:56] <Valen> they are heavy
[07:52:02] <RyanS> ok
[07:52:11] <Valen> thats why we don't have all these nice old bridgeports that everybody else has
[07:52:14] <Valen> bastards
[07:52:23] <archivist> I still think an old Boxford or Denford cnc mill, they come with ballscrews and steppers fitted just need to upgrade the software and possibly the electronics
[07:52:42] <RyanS> but they need to be imported into the US too (chinese stuff)
[07:52:50] <Valen> archivist: theres probably like 4 of them in the entire country ;-P
[07:53:05] <Valen> if its chinese stuff buy it off the net, ebay or something like that
[07:53:23] <archivist> bit rare then, they fight for them on ebay here
[07:53:54] <Valen> I've been looking on ebay, i've seen one bridgeport in the past ~2 years
[07:55:13] <Valen> sometimes a tafe or something like that will get rid of their old machines
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[07:56:51] <RyanS> hmm, see I could get a large machine (as in RF-45) and put it in shed. but because its inconvent (cold, detached from house) means I would get far less use than indoors & desktop
[07:57:38] <Valen> it really comes down to what you want to do with it
[07:57:50] <Valen> also the 2nd job you want to do will be too big for any given mill
[07:58:01] <automata> Hi Does anyone know how to get axis to display Angular jog speed as is shown in http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Pjm
[07:58:27] <automata> I went through the ini and hal files on that page but could not tell...
[07:58:56] <Valen> what do you want to cut RyanS?
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[07:59:45] <awallin_> automata: did you config emc2/AXIS with an A-axis already? I thought that deg/min slider comes automatically when you specify an A-axis
[08:00:15] <RyanS> ok, well eg http://www.stirlingengine.co.uk/high-temperature-differential-stirling-engines-37-c.asp mostly Alu, brass, copper plastic
[08:00:18] <automata> Huh... I want to make my Y Axis rotary.. is there a way to do that?
[08:00:42] <Valen> desktop might be enough then
[08:00:51] <Valen> but most of the desktop ones I've seen are torys
[08:00:54] <Valen> toys
[08:01:13] <awallin_> I think the conventional naming is A rotates around X-axis, B-rotates around Y-axis, and C-rotates around Z-axis. maybe?
[08:01:38] <awallin_> automata: there are settinsg in the INI for having an axis be rotation instead of translation
[08:02:12] <RyanS> could you drill & do some small parts in mild steel in moderation?
[08:02:29] <automata> I did try that.. I specified axis_1 type as ANGULAR
[08:03:23] <automata> So according to that convention, a lathe would have X Z and A??
[08:03:34] <automata> A for the spindle?
[08:03:53] <Valen> RyanS: more than likley ;->
[08:04:05] <awallin_> a spindle that can do positioning is called C-axis. I think.
[08:05:10] <awallin_> automata: did you try putting axis_3 type ANGULAR ? it might be that AXIS wants the first three ones to be x,y,z translation..
[08:05:25] <automata> I will try that now...
[08:09:45] <Loetmichel> moin
[08:09:57] <Loetmichel> s/moin/mornin'
[08:10:10] <RyanS> Also I like kind of ornamental stuff (so in that case it's not super accuracy I'm looking for), artwork things in brass, copper: http://people.howstuffworks.com/steampunk3.htm or antique style brass scales or instruments
[08:13:24] <RyanS> http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-16579150/stock-photo-antique-scale-with-weights-isolated.html this is an idea I have for a project.. I reckon most of that could be done on a desktop 4 axis machine.. if not the column could be finished off on the manual lathe we have
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[08:17:18] <automata> Can I change the max acceleration for a trajectory using maybe a HAL Component?
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[08:20:19] <RyanS> Or perhaps a slightly less impressive version of http://www.en.boehm-stirling.com/hb17.html
[08:21:32] <RyanS> Although that's stainless steel, I cant see why aluminium wouldnt work
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[08:47:22] <RyanS> Is this incredibly overpriced for what you get? http://taig.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67&products_id=434
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[08:50:01] <Valen> does look kinda lightweight
[08:50:12] <Valen> bbl
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[08:51:58] <archivist> not even ballscrews at that price!
[08:52:41] <RyanS> really?
[08:53:06] <archivist> see 1/2 inch 20 pitch Cr-Mo lead screws with adjustable split bronze nuts on all axes.
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[08:58:05] <RyanS> In that case, is there really any other choice than an X2 and a bolt on conversion kit? http://www.cncfusion.com/minimill1.html Mill = $800, kit = $579, motors, controller = $1000? CNC rotary table = $800? so approx $3100 with plenty of change for some tooling?
[09:01:02] <archivist> yes, second hand
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[09:01:53] <Tom_itx> in the end, double your machine cost for tooling
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[09:05:50] <RyanS> I have calipers, dial test, collet set, HSS endmills a face mill, indexed plunge mill bit, toolmakers vice, clamp kit, parellels (all imports ofc, but they appear to be reasonable quality)
[09:06:57] <RyanS> arch second-hand ex industrial or buy from a hobbyist?
[09:13:43] <archivist> RyanS, educational cnc, its in between, good enough for some real work, has the case on for indoor work and can be small enough
[09:15:53] <RyanS> Any particular brands/models that I should look out for?
[09:16:48] <archivist> well over here Denford and Boxford, dont know if there are any local AU makes
[09:18:53] <RyanS> Here is a nice bedroom unit http://www.plantmachinerysales.com.au/buy/details.aspx?R=9474729&__Qpb=1&Cr=0&__Ns=p_StockRankSort_Int32|1||p_Make_String|0||p_Model_String|0||p_Year_Int32|1||p_StockPrice_Decimal|1&__N=1552%201713%20%20%201715%204294950196%2082%201602%201601&silo=1701&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=2&__sid=1322140DF3B5
[09:18:56] <Valen> i dont know that there were any lcally made
[09:18:56] <RyanS> :P
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[09:19:49] <Valen> only other issue with old machines is they generally have slow spindles
[09:20:02] <RyanS> Valen what sort of machine have you managed to get in NSW?
[09:20:11] <Valen> and the newer carbides and fine detail stuff people want to do wants higher speeds
[09:20:21] <Valen> we got a hm-45 from hare and forbes
[09:20:32] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JakeAndRussells
[09:20:51] <Valen> and now we have done this to it http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html
[09:20:57] <Valen> and it doesn't suck ass so much any more
[09:21:12] <Valen> basically we got a very expensive and crappy XY table lol
[09:21:18] <archivist> ew ebay.au is covered in those little pcb router thingies
[09:22:03] <Valen> one of my friends got a lumenlabs one of something like that
[09:22:14] <Valen> all plastic and steppers
[09:22:40] <Valen> he got a chinese stepper driver for it and had to replace it with a gecko in order to get it to work at all
[09:23:29] <RyanS> Is that a Rong-fu RF? 45 - the hare & forbes one?
[09:23:44] <Valen> they are all clones of each other i think
[09:24:31] <Valen> are you doing it to make money or for the fun of it all RyanS?
[09:24:56] <RyanS> Just a hobby
[09:25:11] <Valen> I'd really reccomend making your mill then
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[09:25:25] <Valen> we are actually planning on making some to sell
[09:25:32] <Valen> benchtop ones that arent toys
[09:25:38] <RyanS> I don't have tooling to make one
[09:25:54] <Valen> you don't need it, thats the great thing about living in the modern era ;->
[09:26:13] <Valen> look at the phenolic basalt head stuff we did to our mill
[09:26:59] <Valen> you hack up MDF to make your mould, fill it with resin and rocks, (which btw is basically how all the new top of the line mills are made, though without the MDF ;->)
[09:27:15] <Valen> then bolt cheapish high quality linear rails and ballscrews to it
[09:27:28] <Valen> ok cheapish, and not crap linear rails ;->
[09:29:03] <RyanS> I really would prefer to get something a little more "turnkey".
[09:29:28] <Valen> do that and you wind up with a ridgid, low vibration, neat looking machine that costs about the same as the off the shelf manual mills except its not crap lol
[09:29:55] <Valen> i have had a beer, so i'm probably rambling more than i should
[09:29:55] <Valen> there is a bit of a gap in the market at the moment
[09:29:56] <Valen> there are turnkey desktop routers
[09:29:56] <Valen> there are manual mills and cnc conversions
[09:29:59] <Valen> (both of which suck in their own way as a rule)
[09:30:08] <Valen> and then there are real CnC machines
[09:30:24] <Valen> if you have some cash take a look at the tormach (i think?) stuff
[09:30:45] <Valen> i think they are probably the best your going to get in terms of $ for small scale CnC
[09:31:47] <Valen> theres not much in the not crap and not eleventy million dollars and kg
[09:31:55] <Valen> region
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[09:34:00] <RyanS> yeh, but I was saying before I want to make brass, copper, alu model engines and small gadgets... and my budget is probably $5k max... I have a disability so someone else would set up the work, I would do the designing and programming of parts and run them
[09:34:58] <Valen> keep in mind too with your budget, the tooling and accessories will add a decent amount to your costs ;->
[09:35:20] <Valen> what tool chain do you have in mind to make your gcode?
[09:37:43] <RyanS> well I do a lot of CAD in Solidworks as a hobby, but I don't know if it has CAM, it's probably an add on..
[09:38:42] <RyanS> How do you get from CAD drawing to G-code? is that where CAM software comes in?
[09:38:54] <Valen> yeah
[09:38:57] <Valen> there is solidcam
[09:39:02] <Valen> i havent used it though
[09:39:59] <Valen> there are probably a few other cam plugins for solidworks too
[09:45:14] <Valen> our HM-45 had one of the screws to tighten the gib not actually tapped all the way through
[09:45:22] <Valen> so you could do the screw up really tight
[09:45:29] <Valen> but it didn't affect the gib at all
[09:45:37] <Valen> it was short by 10mm or so
[09:46:28] <RyanS> http://clients.rasvisual.com/welcome/ - my temporarily website has been temporarily for a year :)
[09:46:58] <RyanS> yeah so do H&F to sell the machines
[09:47:04] <RyanS> as is
[09:47:31] <RyanS> or cleaned out and aligned?
[09:47:40] <Valen> see what i said above
[09:48:03] <Valen> looks nice, have you had a look at blender say?
[09:48:47] <RyanS> ah so it's usually just minor problems... ?
[09:48:54] <Valen> though i'm not sure how well it'd do for stuff like that, my understanding its modelling capabilities are more artsy than doing dimensoned stuff
[09:49:03] <Valen> thats kind of a big deal
[09:49:10] <Valen> they don't even give it a coat of paint
[09:49:56] <RyanS> hmm, where can I buy a 'fixed-up' import?
[09:50:16] <RyanS> Blender is awful
[09:50:25] <RyanS> I can't use it
[09:52:38] <Valen> nowhere that i know of
[09:53:36] <RyanS> aliexpress :)
[09:53:56] <awallin_> roughly $20k for a Haas toolroom mill is not that bad when you start to add up linears, ballscrews, servos etc. that it takes to do a proper cnc-conversion of a manual machine
[09:55:28] <RyanS> divide that in 4 for my budget :)
[09:57:29] <awallin_> so team-up with 3 other guys and get the big machine? or, at $50/hour buy 100 hours of machining time somewhere? maybe..... just sayin that if you really want to build a machine then build a machine. if you really want parts then buy a ready made machine or machining-time
[09:59:37] <elmo40> I'd buy a haas toolroom machine (used, save a few bucks) ;)
[10:00:21] <elmo40> because not only do you add linears, servos, cabling... but the rigid framing! all that weight adds up in price.
[10:00:30] <RyanS> bargain! http://www.plantmachinerysales.com.au/buy/details.aspx?R=10731137&__Qpb=1&Cr=2&__Ns=p_StockRankSort_Int32|1||p_Make_String|0||p_Model_String|0||p_Year_Int32|1||p_StockPrice_Decimal|1&__N=1552%201713%20%20%201715%204294956107%201602%201601&silo=1701&__No=0&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=30&__sid=1322140DF3B5
[10:00:31] <Valen> elmo40: big old machines don't really exist here
[10:00:57] <Valen> RyanS: get 2
[10:00:58] <elmo40> RyanS: try a tinyurl next time, ok?
[10:01:23] <RyanS> Valen but at least we have the metric system :)
[10:01:32] <RyanS> ok ill try
[10:01:47] <elmo40> what? 200k for a 3 year old machine? too much
[10:02:07] <elmo40> metric system :P
[10:02:30] <elmo40> I had to convert 760mm to see how large the machine is, lol
[10:03:13] <RyanS> That's Aussie prices for you
[10:03:56] <RyanS> You could get any parts you want manufactured as a hobbyist for the rest of your life for $200k
[10:04:28] <Valen> if you do want stuff made in the mean time let us know
[10:04:29] <RyanS> Although I was quoted $600 for a Styrofoam mould CNCd
[10:04:33] <elmo40> my life isn't 200 years long
[10:04:49] <RyanS> huh?
[10:04:55] <elmo40> what? made with nuclear powered servos?
[10:05:35] <RyanS> I didn't say anything about 200 years old ? I'm confused
[10:05:56] <elmo40> now if this was in Ontario I would buy it up! Looks like a great EMC retrofit http://www.plantmachinerysales.com.au/buy/details.aspx?R=10782710
[10:06:56] <RyanS> All looks a bit ratty
[10:07:47] <elmo40> that is nothing.
[10:08:20] <elmo40> add oil here... scrape of rust there... and you have a great hobbyist machine for a fraction of that 200k you were talking about
[10:09:49] <elmo40> plus, it is a horizontal with a rotating axis
[10:10:35] <Valen> that would be handy to be sure
[10:11:12] <Valen> kinda large though lol
[10:11:23] <elmo40> build a garage around it ;)
[10:11:40] <Valen> string a tarp from the z axis pillar and call it done ;-P
[10:11:49] <Valen> its bigger than my shed i think
[10:12:12] <archivist> machine a new shed on it
[10:12:45] <Valen> dunno, the shipping on the billet might be a bit much
[10:13:53] <archivist> use smaller billets and bolt together
[10:14:12] <elmo40> make shed from plastic. those are cheaper
[10:14:41] <Valen> pfft if your going to mill a shed it might as well be out of one billet
[10:17:41] <RyanS> Okay if you won lotto, and you want to set up the ultimate home CNC shop (so 3phase power would be a stretch) I not talking about building supertanker crankshafts.. but something that can manage model engineering parts as well as car parts. What would you get, you won $15 mill and after building a mansion in buying a Ferrari you decide to set aside $1 mill for the workshop
[10:18:17] <Valen> I reckon i'd still make mine, just for the fun of it
[10:19:02] <RyanS> I don't like cars so I would buy something reliable but unremarkable
[10:19:19] <cpresser> if not DIY, i would check DMG machines
[10:19:38] <RyanS> nah something turnkey I would find it frustrating to DIY
[10:19:51] <elmo40> DMG for the win!
[10:19:55] <elmo40> that is what I would buy
[10:20:03] <Valen> I'd use the mill to make my car ;->
[10:20:20] <Valen> long stroke billet Al V12 ftw
[10:20:37] <RyanS> Is that a machining centre or would you get a separate lathe?
[10:20:49] <cpresser> anyway, the first step would be to build a nice shop
[10:20:51] <elmo40> one of these: http://us.dmg.com/us,milling,dmcu
[10:21:18] <Valen> there was some european composite mill i really liked the look of
[10:21:34] <RyanS> nah I don't want American rubbish :)
[10:21:36] <Valen> a gantry style but the tracks were on top of walls
[10:21:41] <elmo40> and one of these: http://us.dmg.com/us,turning,gmx
[10:21:49] <Valen> so all the moving parts were out of the crud
[10:22:03] <RyanS> No that's Japanese?
[10:22:31] <elmo40> german
[10:22:32] <archivist> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Bearbeitungszentrum_Schnittmodell_Hermle_01.jpg
[10:23:05] <elmo40> Mazak has a similr setup
[10:23:13] <RyanS> Can you get 3 phase power at a residence?
[10:23:20] <elmo40> not easily
[10:23:32] <TekniQue> 5 axis, fick ja
[10:23:39] <elmo40> depends if the lines outside are already there... but for a million dollars you could move :P
[10:24:12] <RyanS> yeh moving, OF COURSE :)
[10:25:06] <RyanS> your getting a new place with a tall ceiling workshop
[10:25:37] <RyanS> no probs, but do you need 3P ?
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[10:25:51] <RyanS> for 5 axis CNC
[10:25:55] <Valen> thats the one archivist
[10:26:08] <Valen> most of the higher power stuff needs 3 phase
[10:26:20] <Valen> you cant get more than ~3hp from 1 phase
[10:26:39] <Valen> and the variable frequency drives dont go much more than 1Kw with 1 phase input
[10:26:48] <cpresser> RyanS: in europe 3phase power is a default setup :)
[10:27:01] <Valen> you don't need 3ph for 5 axis, but most 5 axis machines have big spindles on them ;->
[10:27:12] <RyanS> but I don't think the cost to get 3P in Australia and how it's going to be prohibitive for a millionaire
[10:27:37] <Valen> 3ph hookup isn't that expensive here
[10:27:44] <Valen> i think ~$1k or so
[10:28:01] <elmo40> if the wires are outside!
[10:28:08] <RyanS> ok how about <3hp, but spending on precision and quality
[10:28:13] <elmo40> most residential areas have single phase
[10:28:27] <elmo40> < 3Hp? what for? you have a million bucks :P
[10:28:33] <Valen> don't you guys all have transformers on the house or something?
[10:28:38] <elmo40> I wouldn't buy a mchine with less then 10Hp!
[10:28:43] <RyanS> Because of the power
[10:28:59] <elmo40> Valen: sure, I have a transformer... but only 2 lines are out on the pole in the street!
[10:29:18] <Valen> nasty lol
[10:29:46] <RyanS> But I guess you can build your manson close to 3P.. or would you just buy an off-site workshop in an industrial area and go there and your helicopter?
[10:29:53] <elmo40> they take three phase and split each up into zones of residential areas... Red goes here, White goes there and Blue somewhere else. They try to even the load.
[10:30:09] <elmo40> no offsite for me.
[10:30:13] <elmo40> want it all at home ;)
[10:30:54] <RyanS> nah, you want to want next to the living room, ok now I'm watching TV, now I go on the computer, now i CNC, wait I feel like a cocktail or 3
[10:30:59] <Valen> what voltage is the high side?
[10:31:13] <Valen> put the CnC a few rooms away from the tv
[10:31:16] <Valen> things be loud!
[10:31:20] <elmo40> but I gotta jet... wurk wurk wurk! RyanS: good luck on the million dollar setup. don't forget to add one of these: http://www.cmmxyz.com/category/6/48/30.html
[10:31:51] <elmo40> 15,000V on this strip of lines.
[10:31:57] <RyanS> farken quintuple glazed window and doors
[10:32:17] <elmo40> completely separate building! insulated for winter ;)
[10:32:19] <Valen> i reckon you could hack up a 15Kv > 240v 3 phase in silicon pretty well ;->
[10:32:30] <Valen> elmo40: reverse cycle AC
[10:32:38] <Valen> gotta maintain a constant temp for accuracy
[10:33:17] <elmo40> I am not going to generate 3phase... it would be pointless. I would only be able to make enough for a 3Hp motor (what will drive it, a gas engine????)
[10:33:37] <RyanS> yeh and a measurement thingbob, plus everything from Mityotoyo's catalogue
[10:33:46] <elmo40> man I hate how prices are NEVER on websites, unless it is rock bottom cheap.
[10:34:12] <RyanS> fuck it why not install a gas turbine three-phase generator outside?
[10:34:16] <archivist> I do have a 60a per phase generator in the garden
[10:35:07] <elmo40> RyanS: that is a thought!
[10:35:13] <RyanS> can one person actually operate a machining centre?
[10:35:23] <elmo40> tap into the methane from the dump... and you have 'free' electricity
[10:35:30] <elmo40> RyanS: sure, why not?
[10:35:31] <RyanS> Without killling oneself
[10:35:45] <elmo40> get a crane for the heavy parts ;)
[10:35:58] <RyanS> What if you want to idk change the chuck
[10:36:03] <elmo40> RyanS: how long have you been machining?
[10:36:20] <elmo40> you can pick up the tool holder in your hands.
[10:37:11] <RyanS> I can even use tools :) I just like reading about it... I have a disability, so I will probably get an industrial robot and control it from the computer to load things into the machining centre
[10:37:11] <elmo40> all our machines are CAT50. heavy bitches. but they take the abuse that a CAT40 would warp with :P
[10:37:45] <RyanS> So all the automation would have to go into my budget
[10:37:49] <elmo40> not the same... your robot would need to be programmed for each item you want to make.
[10:38:18] <Valen> elmo40: nah your thinking of it wrong
[10:38:27] <RyanS> nah, a custom-made robot I could control on the fly
[10:38:30] <Valen> RyanS: straps on the glove then the robot arm mimicks his movements
[10:38:53] <RyanS> I don't think robot arms are possible yet?
[10:39:03] <Valen> theres a few of them around the place
[10:39:06] <RyanS> I would probably dislocate my shoulder :P
[10:39:20] <RyanS> I don't think it's very flexible
[10:39:38] <RyanS> A robot that not actually attached to me
[10:39:41] <RyanS> Remote control
[10:41:22] <RyanS> Perhaps I would just invite people around "hey you want to have a go on my machining centre, but please don't drool on my collets" which wouldn't be possible because I'd have an automatic tool changer
[10:41:25] <Valen> thats what i was initally referring to
[10:41:45] <Valen> telepresence robot arms have been around for quite some time
[10:41:58] <Valen> they use them for nuclear reactor stuff
[10:42:04] <RyanS> That sounds like they can read your mind
[10:42:21] <Valen> nah you hold an arm thats not articulated
[10:42:32] <Valen> and as you move it around the big one copies your movements
[10:42:38] <RyanS> but I would have had to spend probably an extra 1 mill for robotics
[10:42:40] <Valen> at a diferent scale if your keen
[10:43:00] <Valen> meh, get a cheap robot arm from the car factories in the states ;->
[10:43:11] <Valen> add EMC and a hacker mix well and add beer
[10:43:50] <RyanS> or just befriend a home machinist who would love to have a sqiz in my workshop, but could never afford superior tools
[10:44:22] <Valen> pay some hot chick to do your "tool changes" for you
[10:44:26] <Valen> everybody wins
[10:45:21] <RyanS> It's like private pilots, they would love to have a PC-12 or a TBM850... screw it a G650, but could never afford on their wage
[10:45:43] <RyanS> The home machinist is in a similar conundrum
[10:46:55] <RyanS> ahh the harsh truth that Metropolitan train drivers earn more than pilots
[10:47:12] <RyanS> Except for senior airline captains
[10:49:33] <RyanS> those DMGs look a bit boring,,, can't you take the cover off, its for sissys.. saftey.. pffft
[10:51:34] <cpresser> RyanS: german engineering and security standart. but you can always rigg something :P
[10:52:39] <RyanS> I think I like this cute precision one http://us.dmg.com/us,milling,hsc20linear?opendocument
[10:56:23] <awallin_> RyanS: here's a small one made by some local finnish company http://www.kolibri.us/ not sure but I think the prices started at 30k
[10:57:00] <RyanS> Not expensive enough :)
[10:57:06] <awallin_> hm, there's even a machining video there
[10:58:36] <RyanS> 50k RPM!?
[10:59:30] <awallin_> small parts -> small tools -> high rpm
[11:00:08] <awallin_> that's one thing speaking against conventional VMCs... a 6krpm or 8krpm isn't fast enough if you use 2mm or 3mm mills all day long
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[12:19:24] <Jymmm> When you re-jet a carb for high elevation, are you increasing or decreasing the port?
[12:19:35] <Tom_itx> are you?
[12:19:40] <Tom_itx> less oxy
[12:19:51] <Tom_itx> less fuel
[12:19:54] <Tom_itx> less power
[12:20:19] <Jymmm> whaaaaaat?
[12:20:27] <Tom_itx> on the up side, water boils quicker
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[12:21:26] <Jymmm> so you're decreasing the port size?
[12:21:54] <Tom_itx> if by port you mean the fuel jets yes
[12:21:58] <Jymmm> k
[12:22:17] <Tom_itx> the air is thinnner
[12:22:40] <Tom_itx> it would be like turning on the choke at the same elevation if you went the other way
[12:23:05] <Tom_itx> they frown on smog in your state
[12:23:11] <Tom_itx> so don't try it
[12:23:27] <Jymmm> I'm researching tri-fuel conversion kits for my Honda EU2000 generator, and just came across a high-altitude article.
[12:23:50] <Tom_itx> are you gettin ready for the apocalipse?
[12:24:04] <Tom_itx> your heater, genny etc
[12:24:26] <Tom_itx> they sell propane kits too
[12:24:29] <Jymmm> They had three jets available: 62, 60, 58 and I didn't know if those represented jet sizes too.
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[12:24:52] <Tom_itx> i don't remember but those could be wire size gage
[12:25:14] <Jymmm> No, just winter. Since we had such a cool summer, I'm expecting a cold winter.
[12:25:30] <Tom_itx> does it snow in Ca?
[12:26:12] <Jymmm> We rent, but the landlord is never to be seen, and last year i had to fix the wall heater. I can only imagine 9pm on Saturday of a three day holiday and no heat.
[12:26:37] <Tom_itx> i have a radiant heater in the basement that has saved me in the past
[12:26:43] <Tom_itx> and a generator
[12:26:59] <psha[work]> and a vault!
[12:27:13] <Tom_itx> shh
[12:27:20] <Jymmm> Not in my area, but we have birds we need to keep warm. There have very sensative respritaory systems (aka coal miners + parakeet == gas check)
[12:28:30] <Jymmm> I've been looking at "Indoor safe" portable propane heaters, but kinda iffy on the subject.
[12:28:50] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Heater-MH18B-Portable-Big-Buddy/dp/B0002WRHE8/
[12:29:23] <Tom_itx> radiant heat is about the cleanest you can get of those portable heaters
[12:29:25] <Jymmm> It runs on 1/2 one pound propane tanks or 20 pound external tank
[12:29:37] <Tom_itx> but it stands to reason that they put off fumes
[12:29:48] <Jymmm> CO, etc, yeah
[12:30:15] <Tom_itx> mine is a 3 burner
[12:30:28] <Tom_itx> wall mount
[12:30:45] <Jymmm> I was also thinking of making a radiator type heater... propane powered burner then water hoses to a radiator (heater core) + fan indoors.
[12:32:38] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: What ya think? Too ghetto?
[12:34:06] <Tom_itx> ask rue_more about that
[12:34:15] <Jymmm> why's that?
[12:34:16] <Tom_itx> he's making a wood burning system like that
[12:34:26] <Jymmm> OH
[12:34:36] <Tom_itx> in #robotics and such
[12:34:41] <Jymmm> ah
[12:34:52] <Tom_itx> runs rather efficient
[12:34:58] <Tom_itx> downdraft
[12:35:03] <Jymmm> Tell me what you think of this...
[12:35:06] <Tom_itx> no
[12:35:17] <Tom_itx> i gotta go make money
[12:35:27] * Tom_itx gets the ink bucket out
[12:37:18] <Jymmm> coil of copper tubing and a check valve tossed into an open fire. run water lines from the coil to load + one of those temp-safe mixing valves == camping shower hot water heater
[12:38:33] <Valen> heh dodgy++ Jymmm i like it ;->
[12:39:08] <Jymmm> Valen: You think so? I thought the anti-sclading valve and maybe a pressure release valve would "cover me"
[12:39:29] <Valen> oh probably work fine
[12:39:35] <Tom_itx> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/heatplant/p1020557.jpg
[12:39:35] <Valen> just rather home brew
[12:39:40] <Tom_itx> i couldn't find a good pic
[12:39:43] <Tom_itx> but it's all in that dir
[12:40:31] <Valen> I want to make a storage system
[12:40:43] <Valen> store heat during the day from a solar concentrator
[12:40:56] <Valen> and store coolth at night from radiators on the roof
[12:41:04] <Tom_itx> he ran tubes in his shop floor as well
[12:41:06] <Valen> or a car radiator under the house with a few pumps and fans
[12:41:06] <Tom_itx> gotta run
[12:41:08] <Jymmm> Valen: I've never seen one before, but got the idea from when I was fixing a drip coffee maker. the heating coil just has a one-way check valve. When the water boils it only has one way to go.
[12:41:14] <jdhNC> it's hard to beat $0.08/kwh
[12:42:09] <Valen> jdhNC: where do you get what that cheap?
[12:42:30] <jdhNC> NC
[12:42:30] <Jymmm> Valen: No pump, no fancy anything. real simple design that's been around for ages.
[12:42:44] <Valen> whats NC?
[12:42:55] <jdhNC> NorthCarolina.US.Earth
[12:43:07] <Jymmm> Valen: Fucked Up
[12:43:11] <Valen> and is that electricity or gas or something else?
[12:43:22] <jdhNC> electricity
[12:43:53] <Valen> thats really cheap
[12:44:06] <Jymmm> jdhNC: You're paying 0.08/KW ?!
[12:44:07] <Valen> its 27c/kwh here in australia
[12:44:15] <jdhNC> I think they are going up next month
[12:44:23] <Valen> so is ours
[12:44:35] <Jymmm> jdhNC: But I bet you have a BASELINE level too
[12:45:09] <Jymmm> Usage goes above baselin, price increases substancially
[12:45:25] <psha[work]> Jymmm: hmm, low usage = low prices!?
[12:45:33] <psha[work]> is not that strange?
[12:45:50] <jdhNC> nah, mine is flat rate. You can get time metered service where off-peak power is dirt cheap but on-peak is pretty pricey
[12:45:56] <Jymmm> psha[work]: It's all regulated here by CPUC
[12:46:31] <Jymmm> Though PG&E have the CPUC in their pockets, so eh
[12:47:24] <psha[work]> here we have lower prices for flats with electric stoves and higher for gas
[12:47:25] <Jymmm> Valen: Ok, is my water heater too ghetto or what? I could do the same thing with a turkey fryer and propane tank
[12:47:35] <psha[work]> (electricity prices)
[12:48:12] <Valen> Jymmm: personally I'd have some kind of circulation system so you don't actually boil the water
[12:48:25] <psha[work]> however i suspect they are regulated...
[12:48:38] <jdhNC> and I'd use enriched uranium to heat the water instead of propane.
[12:48:49] <Jymmm> Valen: camp fire coals == 1600F or there abouts
[12:49:26] <Valen> you know with enough temperature gradient you could make a thermal siphon pretty well
[12:49:46] <Jymmm> Valen: I'd like to have a way to "draw in" cold water for mixing, but I haven't seen such a thing yet
[12:50:06] <psha[work]> something like $0.12/kWh (with gas stove) and 0.08 otherwise
[12:50:15] <psha[work]> flat rate
[12:50:27] <Valen> you could have your hot water tank there with an input at the bottom
[12:50:30] <Jymmm> psha[work]: But gas is FAR more effeciant for producing heat than electricity is
[12:50:38] <Valen> run it through the coals and out the top
[12:50:42] <jdhNC> we are going to $0.09153/kWh in november
[12:50:46] <Valen> it'll run as a siphon
[12:51:04] <Jymmm> Valen: Tank? What tank?
[12:52:01] <Jymmm> Valen: Shove this into the camp fire coal http://www.capturedlightning.org/hot-streamer/jduva/images/primary.jpg
[12:52:07] <Jymmm> coals
[12:52:26] <psha[work]> Jymmm: hm, i've thought that heating is only area where current tech is efficient
[12:52:44] <Jymmm> Valen: Though this could probably work too http://images.orgill.com/200x200/6641336.jpg
[12:53:00] <psha[work]> however gas heaters are really _price_ efficient
[12:54:11] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Well, I have a 1500W Ceramic electric heater, it barely heats up and draws SO MUCH POWER, Where a propane heater can produce a hell of a lot more heat for the same bang-for-the-buck.
[12:54:51] <Jymmm> I can only run that one heater on my generator. Where if I used propane, I could output far more heat.
[12:55:03] <psha[work]> Jymmm: i bet your propane heater produces more then '1.5kW'
[12:55:39] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Sure, but I can run it far longer and output more using propane the electric.
[12:56:10] <Jymmm> And I could run the heater on propane and the generator too if I kit a tri-fuel kit.
[12:56:28] <Jymmm> get a
[13:03:41] <Jymmm> WooHoo, someone still uses waxed string.... Nice work http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/heatplant/dscn0163_relaybox.jpg
[13:04:23] <jdhNC> that's a lot of relays in a really ugly box
[13:05:10] <Jymmm> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/heatplant/dscn0172.jpg
[13:05:16] <Jymmm> doesn't look bad there
[13:06:53] <Jymmm> The guy is using junk yard parts, thats the BEST looking box ever!
[13:07:15] <Jymmm> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/heatplant/dscn0533.jpg
[13:08:08] <Jymmm> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/heatplant/latch-detail.jpg
[13:08:14] <jdhNC> he looks like he's waiting for "the day"
[13:08:38] <Jymmm> i think "the day" just arrived... http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/heatplant/p1000217.jpg
[13:09:10] <jdhNC> "I won't look so crazy when it happens"
[13:09:19] <jdhNC> but he might when the ATF shows up.
[13:10:03] <Jymmm> it's a heatplant, not a stile
[13:10:06] <Jymmm> still?
[13:10:30] <jdhNC> I meant for all the guns he has stockpiled inside that shed
[13:10:57] <Jymmm> guns?
[13:11:22] <jdhNC> is Cris still working?
[13:11:27] <jdhNC> <urk>
[13:11:37] <jdhNC> just random stereotyping
[13:12:12] <jdhNC> survivalist/off-the-grid/whackjob/gun-fiends
[13:12:17] <Jymmm> ah, well anyone who can wire a harness like that is alright in my book
[13:12:37] <jdhNC> yeah, that was pretty cool in an old-school sort of way
[13:12:56] <jdhNC> I like panduit, but you have to buy it.
[13:13:18] <Jymmm> old skool, new skool, that was an awesome wiring job.
[13:13:40] <Jymmm> I use panduit too, becasue I couldn't wire a job to look that good
[13:14:02] <Jymmm> though I do have a roll of waxed string
[13:14:10] <jdhNC> if you lived on the compound in montana, you might have enough time to do that.
[13:14:24] <Jymmm> the compound?
[13:15:58] <jdhNC> nevermind.
[13:16:51] <Jymmm> We dont have those here, the hippies just hide in the mountains and hit the flatlands when they want food.
[13:19:04] <psha[work]> Jymmm: sounds scary :)
[13:19:45] <Jymmm> Nah, they're mostly harmless, just annoying and stinky
[13:20:06] <Jymmm> Though fun to freak watch from a distance
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[13:28:59] <JT-Shop> Yea! Lily sent me an e-mail
[13:30:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Is "Lily" an imaginary friend of yours by chance?
[13:37:16] <jdhNC> Lilly is a drug company, they make his Cialis.
[13:37:36] <Jymmm> ah
[13:37:52] <frysteev> lily works with sparkles at the um dance club i believe
[13:46:11] <JT-Shop> ah no, your all wrong
[13:47:39] <jdhNC> easy for you to say.
[13:48:11] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll be more specific your all wrong as to your guess about who Lily is
[13:48:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Lily is your newly adopted kid
[13:49:02] <JT-Shop> no, she does know what a 5i25 is though
[13:49:18] <jdhNC> "it's what you play with instead of me"
[13:49:51] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: mesa ordering gal?
[13:50:09] <JT-Shop> Jymmm wins the guessing prize
[13:50:21] <Jymmm> but thats no fun
[13:50:21] <JT-Shop> have a 6 pack on me
[13:51:06] <Jymmm> I retract my last answer, and place "shotgun wife" in it's place
[13:51:36] <jdhNC> I have a 5i23 here... what't the difference with a 5i25?
[13:51:45] <Jymmm> 2
[13:52:12] <frysteev> one tastes better?
[13:52:18] <jdhNC> I got a 7i34 also, but can't remember why
[13:55:12] <JT-Shop> the 5i25 uses a parallel cable to connect to the daughter card and cost $80 or so
[13:57:48] <jdhNC> is it new?
[13:59:22] <JT-Shop> yea, they are just making the first batch
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[14:00:22] <frysteev> are they better?
[14:01:00] <jdhNC> looks kind of better (and much cheaper) for what I need
[14:01:09] <jdhNC> but, fewer points
[14:02:03] <frysteev> pointy things
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[14:44:28] <Danimal_garage|2> mornin
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[15:14:16] <JT-Shop> morning Dan
[15:15:06] <Danimal_garage|2> Morning John
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[15:17:59] <JT-Shop> I get to write a G33 sub to cut pipe threads unless someone here has one to share...
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[15:20:54] <archivist> JT-Shop, I admit been too busy doing other stuff to have done the tapered thread code yet
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[15:21:13] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:22:55] <archivist> I still have the southbend and its real taper turning
[15:22:59] <JT-Shop> I found a spreadsheet a while back and he turns the taper then threads it
[15:23:55] <archivist> I know I have a boiler plug to thread soon
[15:24:47] <Danimal_garage|2> what about masterscam?
[15:25:10] <JT-Shop> I don't use masterscam :)
[15:25:49] <Danimal_garage|2> i do, just not sure if it does pipe threads
[15:26:39] <JT-Shop> I'd rather make a sub that I can use with ngcgui so it only takes seconds to program the next time...
[15:26:49] micges is now known as micges_garage
[15:27:37] <Danimal_garage|2> gotcha
[15:27:48] <alex4nder> hey
[15:34:36] <JT-Shop> the pitch difference between normal and the XZ path using G33 is 0.00001802... I don't think I'll bother with compensation for that
[15:35:51] <cradek> over the 5 or 6 threads that engage, that'll build up quite an error... like maybe even .0001 inches
[15:36:52] <JT-Shop> yea that is terrible, do you think the Chinese dies are closer than that?
[15:37:14] <cradek> surely so
[15:37:20] <cradek> be sure to try to get them started straight
[15:37:28] <JT-Shop> might have to use thread sealer... oh wait you need it anyway unless your making Dryseal threads
[15:37:44] <Danimal_garage|2> anyone know of a program where you could enter g code and subtract or add to the value of all x or all y or all z movements?
[15:38:06] <JT-Shop> I mean the dies and taps they use to make all the pipe fittings and pipe
[15:38:15] <cradek> can you use offsets somehow instead?
[15:40:22] <Danimal_garage|2> cradek: i can, but i'd rather change the program
[15:41:06] <Danimal_garage|2> for example, i make sprockets, and the lathe profile is the same, only the x changes. so i have to make a new program for every size
[15:41:34] <cradek> can you write a parametric program for the general case?
[15:41:43] <Danimal_garage|2> it would be nice to go into a program like gedit and change all x values so that they're +.158 for the next tooth size
[15:42:06] <cradek> or can you write it in G91 mode so you only have to change one number?
[15:42:32] <cradek> a program to edit gcode would have to understand all of gcode, which is a very hard task
[15:42:36] <Danimal_garage|2> i'd like to just have a seperate program, it's more idiot proof that way
[15:42:50] <archivist> I just have a constants at the beginning of the gcode the rest calculates as needed
[15:43:51] <archivist> I used to have a gear script that spat out gcode, that is nearly as easy
[15:44:05] <Danimal_garage|2> cradek: i'm, picturing something like the replace feature in gedit... search for all whole words beginning in x and change the value to +.158 of whatever it is
[15:44:25] <Danimal_garage|2> archivist: sprocketeer is decent
[15:44:52] <Danimal_garage|2> i use it to get my pitch diameters, but it will spit out the code for any sprocket you need
[15:45:24] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: search and replace? That sounds... icky
[15:45:30] <cradek> Danimal_garage|2: in the general case, that's not nearly good enough to edit a gcode program. consider your g10 commands, or g91 mode, or polar coordinates, or a hundred other things
[15:45:42] <jthornton> can you do that with a subroutine?
[15:45:49] <cradek> better to write your gcode flexibly to start with
[15:46:34] <Danimal_garage|2> i use mastercam, i don't write code lol
[15:46:40] <cradek> or write a script/program that spits out gcode according to your requirements
[15:46:45] <Danimal_garage|2> i HATE programing
[15:47:03] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: does it have a post procesor?
[15:47:10] <cradek> oh so you have no control over the output. I don't know how to help then.
[15:47:22] <Danimal_garage|2> Jymmm: yes
[15:47:36] <archivist> Danimal_garage|2, something like http://www.archivist.info/gear/index.php?name=&teeth=12&od=3&Type=1&design=true
[15:47:38] <cradek> no post is going to be flexible enough to let you generate parametric gcode to make sprockets
[15:47:47] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage|2: Maybe there's an API for that you could utilize.
[15:48:02] <Danimal_garage|2> cradek: yea, i can easily make a new program for every size, i was just thinking if there was an easier way
[15:48:26] <cradek> yeah there is - make one program that does every size - but you can't use mastercam to make it
[15:48:38] <cradek> probably
[15:48:47] <cradek> (I know nothing about mastercam)
[15:48:54] <alex4nder> Danimal_garage|2: for a braindead programatic search and replace, you can do arithemetic inside perl regular expressions
[15:48:56] <jthornton> the only thing that changes is the pitch diameter and the number of teeth?
[15:49:25] <Jymmm> Oh hell... Mastcam's API is either C# or VB.NET <rolls eyes>
[15:49:39] <cradek> alex4nder: braindead is right. that way leads to suffering...
[15:49:46] <archivist> regexp on gcode could be dangerous
[15:50:00] <cradek> archivist: that doesn't stop people from trying it
[15:50:04] <alex4nder> with great power comes great responsibility
[15:50:19] <alex4nder> .. and the ability to blow off your foot
[15:50:53] <archivist> parametric gcode is simple and is more fool proof
[15:50:56] <Danimal_garage|2> jthornton: i have a solidworks file that hase the tooth pattern, all i have to do is change the pitch diameter and do a circular pattern on the tooth, and i get a perfect sprocket blank that i can inport into mastercam
[15:51:10] <Danimal_garage|2> hase=has*
[15:51:28] <cradek> yarrgh solidworks and mastercam both
[15:51:38] <Danimal_garage|2> yes, i'm lazy
[15:51:43] <cradek> and rich
[15:51:46] <archivist> Danimal_garage|2, heh fis your solid works so you do even less
[15:51:50] <archivist> fix
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[15:52:04] <Danimal_garage|2> i have a friend at goengineer, i got a deal
[15:52:10] <Danimal_garage|2> but yea, still expensive
[15:52:51] <Danimal_garage|2> archivist: at this point, i have every tooth profile i need for the mill
[15:52:57] <archivist> I draw gears in solidworks but that as far as solidworks goes
[15:53:49] <Danimal_garage|2> yea, i may try to sell my seat, i havent needed it in a long time
[15:54:46] <Danimal_garage|2> cradek: when you use solidworks and mastercam for so many years, it's hard to settle for something less
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[15:56:39] <archivist> parametric gcode is not something less!
[15:56:57] <Danimal_garage|2> i'm saying less of a cad or cam program
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[15:58:51] <archivist> program a shape in gcode in a subroutine and then pattern/scale/offset it
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[16:08:17] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:50:17] * Tom_itx wonders if JT-Shop got his ratchet cut
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[16:56:41] <JT-Shop> no, I'm waiting on a 0.1255 reamer to show up...
[16:57:06] <Tom_itx> for the fixture?
[16:57:24] <JT-Shop> yea, all my pins are a smidge over 0.125
[16:57:47] <Tom_itx> nice press fit
[16:59:10] <JT-Shop> just a little hard to index it with a press fit
[17:00:46] <Tom_itx> heat the metal, ream it then let it cool to room temp
[17:01:18] <Tom_itx> my room temp has been around 100F lately :)
[17:01:23] <Danimal_garage|2> ha
[17:01:31] <Danimal_garage|2> it finally cooled off some here
[17:01:44] <Danimal_garage|2> it's been in the upper 90's in the house
[17:02:01] <Danimal_garage|2> almost had to go in the shop to stay cool lol
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[17:11:49] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: ?
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[17:22:44] <JT-Shop> wow humidity is 57% here
[17:26:38] <Tom_itx> maybe i'll put together a how to for making bit files
[17:26:46] <Tom_itx> or how i did it
[17:28:26] <jthornton> that would be neat
[17:29:32] <Tom_itx> i suppose not everybody would want to install xilinx webpack though
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[17:42:37] <Danimal_garage|2> isn't that low for there jthornton?
[17:42:53] <JT-Shop> very low, usually in the 90's
[17:49:03] <Danimal_garage|2> thought so
[17:50:04] <Danimal_garage|2> hmm i wonder how bad Maine got hit by the hurricane
[17:50:32] <Danimal_garage|2> i can't get ahold of my parents, but i know they were going on a canoe trip after the storm
[17:50:52] <Tom_itx> thru the middle of town?
[17:51:22] <Danimal_garage|2> not sure if they actually did, or if the cell service is down
[17:51:30] <Danimal_garage|2> i doubt that
[17:51:38] <Danimal_garage|2> not really a flood zone
[17:52:06] <Danimal_garage|2> they're in southern coastal maine, but far enough from the coast
[17:52:22] <Danimal_garage|2> probably 15 miles
[17:52:40] <andypugh> hey micges_garage Does M67 work for you at the moment?
[17:53:00] <JT-Shop> it didn't work for me but M68 did
[17:53:19] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Which versions did you try?
[17:53:34] <JT-Shop> 2.5 I think
[17:53:46] <andypugh> OK, it is borked in 2.4.6 too.
[17:54:11] <JT-Shop> I take that back it was 2.4.6
[17:54:22] <JT-Shop> just read my own message on devel
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[18:26:42] <micges_garage> andypugh: it doesn't work in 2.4 and 2.5
[18:26:46] <JT-Shop> I'm assuming that 1 in 16 taper for NTP is OD and not the side
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[18:38:20] <Danimal_garage|2> yay, i think the toolchanger is working ok now
[18:38:59] <Danimal_garage|2> what a PITA the hydraulic cylnder is... wish i could ditch that somehow
[18:39:14] <Danimal_garage|2> hmm actually i could.... i just need a servo
[18:39:23] <Danimal_garage|2> and a digital drive
[18:40:19] <Danimal_garage|2> the cylnder just pushes a chain which drives some sprockets, i can ditch it and just drive the sprockets with a servo
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[18:45:28] <JT-Shop> I think the small end diameter and the pipe OD are the clues I've been looking for to calculate length of cut
[18:46:10] <Tom_itx> i think that's given on that page
[18:47:24] * JT-Shop pulls out the large print edition and looks
[18:53:30] <Tom_itx> i recall it gives the length of good threads and a few extra that aren't
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[18:58:44] <JT-Shop> yea, I'm still trying to sort it out...
[18:59:05] <Tom_itx> it's not all that clear without a plug gage
[18:59:16] <Tom_itx> we always used a go no go
[18:59:33] <Tom_itx> or ring gage
[19:00:17] <JT-Shop> LOL, I'm still trying to cut the taper... I've not got to the threading yet
[19:00:41] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:01:37] <JT-Shop> it should be dead simple but my mind is not working properly atm... I have the small end diameter and the pipe OD and that should be enough to calculate the end point from
[19:01:52] <Tom_itx> .0625 taper per inch?
[19:02:05] <Tom_itx> difference in diameter..
[19:02:16] <JT-Shop> yes
[19:02:29] <Tom_itx> so find the minor diameter
[19:03:42] <JT-Shop> I have the small end diameter from a chart
[19:04:16] <Tom_itx> what pipe is it?
[19:04:31] <JT-Shop> 1/8"
[19:04:49] <Tom_itx> .405 od on the pipe
[19:05:31] <JT-Shop> yes, chart says 0.3931 for the small end of the taper cut
[19:05:44] <Tom_itx> .363 i think is the small end root
[19:06:10] <JT-Shop> yea for the threads
[19:06:16] <Tom_itx> so .3931 is probably right
[19:07:06] <Tom_itx> overall thread length is .3924
[19:07:35] <mrsunshine> Danimal_garage|2, a solenoid?
[19:07:37] <mrsunshine> not strong enough ?
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[19:09:40] <Danimal_garage|2> not sure if i know what you mean
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[19:12:01] <mrsunshine> Danimal_garage|2, well isnt a solenoid kinda a hydraulic cylinder but on electricity ? :)
[19:16:49] * JT-Shop gives up and takes a mind cleansing bike ride to town...
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[19:21:29] <Tom_L> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/npt-national-pipe-taper-threads-d_750.html
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[19:22:07] <Tom_L> not that it's any different
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[22:16:16] <andypugh> I wonder how much capacitor I need for a 300V 10A PSU? I have 3 x 330uF, but 2x fits the box a lot better.
[22:18:51] * JT-Shop hands andypugh a capacitor stuffer
[22:19:41] <andypugh> I can squeeze 3 in, but it means things like having to wire the relay bases up before clipping to the DIN rail.
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[22:29:27] <JT-Shop> sounds like PVC... Panel Very Crowded
[22:34:58] <andypugh> I am trying to fit it in the machine base.
[22:37:54] <andypugh> At max design current I calculate 15V ripple with 2 caps and 10V with 3.
[22:38:35] <andypugh> The drives have voltage feedback, so I can spot undervoltage problems.
[22:40:08] <andypugh> PCW: Any more on the 7i64? I found out that my problem was with the 5i25 patch (not that I have located the source of the problem yet, but it was 100% correlation)
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[22:44:22] <Danimal_garage|2> JT-Shop or archivist: have you ever seen drills like these? http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/6101010774/in/photostream
[22:44:55] <Danimal_garage|2> cleveland drills, it says they're bit stock drills no. 13 on the can
[22:45:03] <Danimal_garage|2> i'm guessing somewhat old
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[22:46:03] <Danimal_garage|2> i've never seen anything that had a shank like that
[22:51:52] <andypugh> Danimal_garage|2: Old-school drills for a hand-brage
[22:51:57] <andypugh> hand-brace, even
[22:52:28] <andypugh> I might be able to find you a brace, but it needs a new handle :-)
[22:52:50] <Danimal_garage|2> ah, cool
[22:53:09] <Danimal_garage|2> almost a complete set, missing one drill
[22:53:16] <Danimal_garage|2> i wonder how old they are
[22:54:08] <JT-Shop> yea, I have a few of them for a brace i think they call it
[22:54:32] * JT-Shop reads back now
[22:54:55] <JT-Shop> I like the top of the can "ONE SET"
[22:56:20] <JT-Shop> at least the BikeMP3 worked in the wing
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[22:58:50] <andypugh> Danimal_garage|2: http://archives.tools.oneofakindantiques.com/3296_antique_tool_19th_century_bit_brace_1.htm
[22:59:50] <andypugh> Though I am pretty sure that that shank style is compatible with the 2-jaw chucks that modern braces have
[23:01:05] <andypugh> I think my grandad had one with a jacl-screw on the top to push it into metal. (He was a steam-engine fitter)
[23:07:55] <Danimal_garage|2> that's cool, i think i had one of those years back
[23:08:15] <JT-Shop> I have to pass a 1.125 x .5 plug from the trunk to under the seat... what a pia to seal that hole off
[23:08:55] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Cut the wire, then solder and heat-shrink?
[23:09:12] <JT-Shop> I'd rather not they are tiny
[23:09:19] <Danimal_garage|2> what are you wiring?
[23:09:43] <JT-Shop> the BikeMP3 player plugs into the CD changer plug under the seat
[23:09:54] <andypugh> What's the plug? Can you extract the pins, then re-insert?
[23:10:00] <JT-Shop> I wonder how Honda routs the wire
[23:10:06] <JT-Shop> that is possible
[23:13:21] <andypugh> Of course, with some connectors the pin-extractor costs more than the MP3 player.
[23:14:13] <JT-Shop> yea, I'm just looking in the 1000 page manual to see if they say anything about where the CD player would be stored
[23:15:01] <andypugh> On the WiFi-enabled support van?
[23:15:37] <JT-Shop> well it goes in the same cubby hole as the CB
[23:16:22] <JT-Shop> LOL if the van is in motion then it is full of people cause the weather is too rough for biking
[23:16:45] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yikes! http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/connector-tooling/2332731/
[23:17:21] <JT-Shop> wow
[23:17:32] <JT-Shop> makes you want to make your own
[23:21:03] <andypugh> This appears to be a normal W-crimper" http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/connector-tooling/0437083/
[23:21:27] <andypugh> 16AWG isn't big, is it?
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[23:22:15] <Danimal_garage|2> that's a decent size
[23:22:33] <Danimal_garage|2> not huge
[23:23:27] <Danimal_garage|2> but it's not small either (that's what she said)
[23:23:34] <andypugh> halrun
[23:23:37] <andypugh> Doh!
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[23:38:09] <mikegg> is it possible to use a 7i43 along with a 5i20?
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[23:42:36] <andypugh> Probably.
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[23:45:09] <andypugh> mikegg: I just tried it (without a 7i43) and the only complaint was that the 7i43 wasn't responding.
[23:46:46] <skunkworks_> here is an odd riddle... I have been doing a lot of cutting.. no following errors what so ever. I did a pecking cycle. (G83G98X0.0000 Y4.5620Z-.95R.05Q.05f.5) and if I have the MV set to anything over 30ipm - Y f-errors when it moves to the next hole. wierd
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[23:47:46] <andypugh> What's your normal speed?
[23:48:28] <andypugh> Wierd anyway, the move to the next hole is a rapid, so the feed shouldn't matter?
[23:48:54] <skunkworks_> max velocity is 200ipm
[23:49:42] <skunkworks_> MV caps the max velocity the machine will go.. ie - set to 30ipm - the max machine will move during any movement is 30ipm
[23:51:07] <andypugh> Ah, IK
[23:51:23] <andypugh> (That's a relaly thin "O")
[23:54:41] <skunkworks_> ?
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[23:56:41] <andypugh> Never mind. I see there is no pulling the wool over your eyes.
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