#emc | Logs for 2011-08-14

[00:02:48] <mikegg> later fellas
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[00:04:57] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Depends on the motor. Probably not ideal for a 5V nominal motor, but fine for a 400V one.
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[01:24:41] <Jymmm> What it the tolerances for off-the-shelf hardware store extruded aluminum typically?
[01:25:07] <Jymmm> 1/4" wall 2" angle
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[01:25:41] <Jymmm> or even 1/8" or 1/16"
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[01:28:47] <andypugh> It is probably +0 -0.01378
[01:28:50] <Danimal_garage> cant imagine it being too bad
[01:29:10] <andypugh> ie, it will be very close to either 1/4" or 6mm.
[01:29:52] <Jymmm> Ok, just wasn't sure.
[01:30:24] <Jymmm> I might have to get/find architectural extrusion instead
[01:30:59] <Tom_itx> take your screen door apart
[01:31:23] <Jymmm> No, it's too much of a PITA to asemble and it's steel =)
[01:32:03] <Jymmm> Besides it's not extruded, it's formed.
[01:35:44] <frysteev> anyone know how to syncronize an asea irb6 s2?
[01:35:50] <frysteev> :P
[01:36:18] <andypugh> Servo motor?
[01:39:51] <frysteev> ya
[01:40:04] <frysteev> just got it wired up,
[01:40:10] <frysteev> i njeed to dfind the manual for this thing :P
[01:40:53] <andypugh> What sort of motor is it?
[01:42:20] <andypugh> And what drive are you connecting to?
[01:45:11] <frysteev> its with its stock controller,
[01:47:40] <andypugh> In that case, doesn't it just work?
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[02:12:20] <Danimal_garage> wow, i just lined up this 24" long plate within .003" over 24" by eye
[02:12:49] <andypugh> You are a freak of nature, or your DTI is seized
[02:13:02] <Danimal_garage> lol
[02:13:14] <Danimal_garage> i usually have a pretty good eye
[02:13:22] <Danimal_garage> but this was just luck
[02:13:53] <Danimal_garage> of course it's too far to one side, so i have to move it anyways so it'll be within the travel
[02:15:03] <andypugh> Ah, so perfectly aligned in the wrong place?
[02:15:18] <Danimal_garage> yea haha
[02:20:54] <Danimal_garage> .007" the second time
[02:21:29] <andypugh> You are losing your Superpower.
[02:21:55] <Danimal_garage> yea, i wont dare try for a third
[02:22:28] <Danimal_garage> i'm making the base plate for my cnc engraver
[02:22:43] <Danimal_garage> 3/4"x17"x24"
[02:23:09] <andypugh> Is it a Bird? Is it a Plane? No! It's Metal Stock Alignment Man!
[02:23:19] <Danimal_garage> ha
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[02:24:07] <andypugh> Danimal_garage: Have you seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01xasUtlvw
[02:25:24] <Danimal_garage> haha yea
[02:25:32] <Danimal_garage> good one
[02:27:25] <andypugh> Rather fun to see what a really nice bike looked like then.
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[02:29:06] <Danimal_garage> old bikes are back in style
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[02:44:08] <Danimal_garage> it would be really cool if i can finish this plate tonight. I'd like to test the machine out
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[03:09:33] <Danimal_garage> probably didn't need this many tapped holes in the plate, but whatever
[03:09:49] <Tom_itx> i did 1" grid
[03:09:56] <Tom_itx> not sorry either
[03:10:01] <Tom_itx> but it's a small mill too
[03:11:12] <Danimal_garage> i'm doing 2.5" grid, staggered
[03:11:23] <Danimal_garage> 1/2"-13 threads
[03:11:40] <Danimal_garage> in reality, i'll probably only use one
[03:11:49] <Tom_itx> only thing would be if you need special holes for some job and they get in the way
[03:12:14] <Danimal_garage> eh, all i make is the same parts over and over
[03:12:30] <Tom_itx> i forget what we did on the large machines when we put plates on the table
[03:13:11] <Danimal_garage> 1/2-13 is way overkill for an engraver, but i wanted to be able to use my mill fixtures
[03:13:22] <Tom_itx> i figure
[03:13:23] <Tom_itx> d
[03:15:12] <Tom_itx> the clamps might get in the way
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[03:16:30] <Danimal_garage> no clamps
[03:17:04] <Tom_itx> just studs or bolts?
[03:17:26] <Tom_itx> i figured a 'standard' set
[03:17:39] <Danimal_garage> fixtures
[03:18:10] <Danimal_garage> not a clamp set
[03:18:18] <Tom_itx> ok
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[03:46:14] <Danimal_garage> yay, like 40 holes drilled and tapped
[03:46:56] <Danimal_garage> now i just need to drill and bore a few locating holes, counter bore a few holes, and drill and tap some small holes for the leveling screws
[03:47:22] <Danimal_garage> should be done by tomorrow
[03:47:49] <Danimal_garage> almost 9, time to close it down, night
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[05:04:26] <factor> What type of parallel port does EMC run on? I have mine in bi-directional mode
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[05:15:11] <frysteev> anyone here use servos?
[05:16:14] <IG-garage> guys do you sharpen drill bits manually on the grinding wheel?
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[05:17:16] <toastydeath> I did at work, yes
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[05:17:57] <IG-garage> they may not center well after that.
[05:17:58] <factor> I use steppers.
[05:18:48] <toastydeath> if you are relying on a jobber drill to center in the first place I think i may have found another, more serious problem
[05:18:59] <IG-garage> toastydeath: For drilling with d70mm pre-drilled d 32 mm, what RPMs and feed rate (per revolution) would you use?
[05:19:13] <toastydeath> drilling in what
[05:19:52] <frysteev> im just curious, how do dc servos stay still, do they just send them ac?
[05:19:53] <IG-garage> steel, .45% of graphite
[05:20:56] <toastydeath> depends on the steel, but something between 150-300 sfm on the spindle, and probably .003"-.005" per rev
[05:21:02] <toastydeath> you will have to convert that to metric
[05:21:32] <toastydeath> for a mild steel, closer to 300 feet per minute
[05:21:40] <toastydeath> for something like stainless, a lot slower
[05:21:57] <toastydeath> even down to 100 feet per minute if it's particularly tough material
[05:22:19] <IG-garage> toastydeath: these holes are later milled precisely, because spindle of this console-type drilling machine isn't rigid
[05:22:43] <toastydeath> k?
[05:22:56] <IG-garage> 100 feet = 300 x 100 = 3 meters per minute
[05:23:46] <toastydeath> that doesn't really change how i'd do it, i've never experienced a major change in drilling performance or accuracy based on the machining paraterers
[05:23:50] <toastydeath> *parameters
[05:25:00] <IG-garage> toastydeath: why such a little feed rate per revolution?
[05:25:47] <IG-garage> why not 56 RPM, 0.22 mm per revolution?
[05:25:59] <toastydeath> because i've snapped more than a few drills in steel taking too much per rev
[05:26:14] <toastydeath> the big chips clog the flutes very quickly
[05:26:36] <toastydeath> unless you're using a very large drill I tend to keep the chip load conservative
[05:26:46] <toastydeath> twist drills
[05:26:51] <toastydeath> insert drills I'll go a lot more
[05:27:09] <IG-garage> well, i think when I choose 0.22 mm per rev. it is in fact quite slower (if you measure the time)
[05:27:27] <toastydeath> the time isn't what matters
[05:28:11] <IG-garage> yeah, but this is probably not 0.22 mm per rev. but maybe 0.12 or so
[05:28:13] <toastydeath> also, 30 meters per minute
[05:28:17] <toastydeath> not 3
[05:28:28] <IG-garage> how, so much?
[05:28:42] <toastydeath> ?
[05:29:15] <IG-garage> you mean surface speed?
[05:29:18] <toastydeath> yes
[05:29:27] <IG-garage> and rpms would be ...
[05:30:19] <toastydeath> 435ish
[05:30:22] <toastydeath> rpm
[05:30:28] <IG-garage> 435 RPM?
[05:30:39] <IG-garage> for 70 mm in diameter drill?
[05:30:48] <toastydeath> oh, i did the math wrong
[05:30:52] <toastydeath> i thought it was a much smaller drill
[05:31:02] <toastydeath> seeing as how i machine exclusively in english
[05:31:13] <toastydeath> and don't have a sense of how big an mm is
[05:31:29] <toastydeath> for a 70mm drill do whatever you feel like
[05:31:40] <IG-garage> for 7 mm drill i would use same 315 RPM and 0.1 mm per rev
[05:31:43] <toastydeath> you could probably take .010-.015
[05:32:00] <IG-garage> inch = 25.4 mm
[05:32:14] <toastydeath> knowing the conversion factor doesn't help me get a grasp of physical size
[05:32:24] <toastydeath> which is what causes me problems
[05:32:35] <IG-garage> 70 mm drill is like a huge tow truck
[05:32:48] <toastydeath> yes, now that i typed it into google
[05:33:02] <toastydeath> you can go quite fast with it if you want
[05:33:11] <IG-garage> not really
[05:33:25] <toastydeath> not spindle speed, i meant feed
[05:33:37] <IG-garage> i go with 56 RPM and 0.22 mm per revolution, in pre-drilled 32 mm hole
[05:34:00] <IG-garage> yeah, but at some moment it all starts to vibrate
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[05:35:45] <IG-garage> 0.22 mm = about 0.09 "
[05:36:07] <IG-garage> no, wait
[05:36:09] <toastydeath> then don't go that fast
[05:36:10] <toastydeath> also .009
[05:36:23] <toastydeath> if you're machine limited, go with it
[05:37:16] <IG-garage> yes
[05:37:49] <IG-garage> yeah, takes a lot of time
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[14:56:32] <syyl_> hmm
[14:57:07] <syyl_> can i change the pwmgen.00.scale while emc/axis is running?
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[15:00:11] <awallin> sure why not but it might be dangerous...
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[16:02:14] <factor> http://iamfirst.dipdive.com First robotics event going to be on in 7 hours on ABC
[16:02:20] <factor> should be pretty cool to see
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[17:01:18] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[17:02:05] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the world
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[17:08:54] <IchGuckLive> Today the Race CAR of EMC² has won his 4th race in a row
[17:10:48] <Jymmm> Too bad their products dont live up to that
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[18:14:35] <frysteev> how do encoders communicate with emc?
[18:15:14] <archivist> more than one way, you have choices
[18:21:25] <frysteev> there is some intercface between the encoder and the pc,
[18:21:52] <frysteev> cuz i imagine having the software take a quadrature input would waste cpu
[18:22:24] <archivist> most use a mesa card
[18:23:03] <frysteev> hmmm,
[18:23:16] <frysteev> and the mesa card interface directly with the encoders?
[18:23:21] <Tom_itx> yes
[18:23:41] <frysteev> im new to servos and closed loop
[18:23:49] <Tom_itx> i have a 7i43 and a daughter card for it
[18:23:55] <Tom_itx> but i'm using steppers, not servos
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[18:24:28] <frysteev> im sussing out my robot arm, hoping to replace the old computer in it, and reuse the servo stuff,
[18:24:43] <frysteev> just trying to figure out the i/o thats needed
[18:25:13] <frysteev> im going to put encoders on it, it currently has resolvers, (been looking at converters and such too)
[18:26:29] <archivist> some are using resolvers with emc
[18:27:26] <frysteev> is there a direct interface method for that? ive seen people using converters that take the resolver info and spit out a quadrature type signal
[18:28:06] <JT-Shop> the resolver may go to the drive not the controller
[18:28:39] <frysteev> ill know that in an hour or so, im workoing on the wiring atm, ill go figure it ou then come back
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[18:45:47] * JT-Shop just ordered the air piping for the shop :)
[18:46:11] <Tom_itx> overhead drops or along the wall?
[18:48:18] <JT-Shop> along the wall about 6" from the top with a drop every 4'
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[19:38:23] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: what kind of pipe?
[19:38:38] <Danimal_garage> i just used black pipe from home depot
[19:39:08] <Danimal_garage> black metal pipe, not pvc
[19:40:06] <JT-Shop> black metal pipe
[19:40:22] <JT-Shop> with push on hose connections in the corners
[19:42:16] <Danimal_garage> i just put a tee every 6 feet and put an air fitting there so i can hook up air hoses
[19:42:49] <JT-Shop> angle brackets lagged into the wall studs with a conduit hanger holding the pipe http://www.fdsons.com/images/elect/steel_conduit_hanger.jpg
[19:43:09] <JT-Shop> I'm putting a tee every 4'
[19:44:10] <Danimal_garage> opps it looks like mine's every 4 feet too
[19:44:35] <Danimal_garage> i just got the pipe from home depot, threaded one each end
[19:45:03] <Danimal_garage> i have a hose reel in the ceiling too
[19:45:12] <JT-Shop> I just ordered it all from mcmaster carr
[19:45:32] <JT-Shop> I have a hose reel for the center near the garage door sorta
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[19:46:01] <Danimal_garage> works good, it doesnt leak. i used the plumber's paste on all the threads
[19:46:42] <JT-Shop> I got some pipe fittings from Homless Depot and they had pitting in the threads and you could not seal them off :/ I was pissed
[19:46:53] <Danimal_garage> really?? wow
[19:47:07] <Danimal_garage> my dad calls it homo depot
[19:47:25] <Danimal_garage> real politically correct lol
[19:47:54] <JT-Shop> yea, I tend to not care much about being politically correct
[19:48:39] <JT-Shop> someone told me once that I was not much of a people person... I told him that ain't about to change at this stage of my life :)
[19:50:26] <Danimal_garage> haha, really? you're more of one than i am
[19:52:40] <Jymmm> Crap Depot or Borg
[19:52:59] <Jymmm> (Star Trek reference)
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[19:54:44] <JT-Shop> I got the plasma moved into the shop yesterday :)
[19:55:22] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: i think its nearly impossible to get a pipe with a tapred thread and hemp not sealed
[19:55:32] <Loetmichel> even with very bad pitting
[19:55:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hey, as long as you have BBQ & Beer when I arrive, you're alright in my book no matter what Danimal_garage says about you!
[19:56:04] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: dryseal pipe threads don't need pipe dope or tape
[19:56:19] <JT-Shop> that's what I said too Jymmm
[19:56:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: So fuck em if they can't take a joke =)
[19:57:38] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: ok, i thought "normal" zinced steep pipe with tapered tube thread
[19:58:12] <JT-Shop> yea, NPT threads need sealer to hold air
[19:58:49] <JT-Shop> NPTF (Dryseal) threads are modified NPT threads which are less likely to leak without a sealant.
[19:59:25] <Loetmichel> ... if the are not pitted badly ;-)
[19:59:27] <Loetmichel> i see
[19:59:43] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: more likely to have tritip and beer when you show up
[20:00:04] <Danimal_garage> i'm pretty sure Jymmm drinks smirnoff ice
[20:00:23] <Danimal_garage> anyone who spells their name like that drinks smirnoff ice
[20:00:43] <JT-Shop> LOL
[20:00:51] <Danimal_garage> or wine coolers
[20:01:11] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: Tequilia and Dos Equis Lager
[20:01:19] <Danimal_garage> yuck
[20:01:28] <Jymmm> wimp
[20:01:32] <Danimal_garage> not much for the Mexican drinks
[20:01:56] <Jymmm> more for me
[20:02:06] <Danimal_garage> Stone IPA is one of my favs
[20:02:20] <Danimal_garage> especially since i can ride my bike to the brewery
[20:03:33] <JT-Shop> Remy Martin on cold evenings, Dry Red Wine, Kolsch, Hefe, Wit or the funny beer in the clear bottle
[20:03:46] <factor> ANyone have a good design for motor axis connectors to gear axis from sheet metal?
[20:04:12] <JT-Shop> say that again?
[20:04:12] <factor> normal it is done with block metal, but only have access to thick sheet metal.
[20:04:31] <Danimal_garage> not a big fan of wit
[20:04:44] <JT-Shop> I only like the one I make
[20:05:40] <JT-Shop> factor: for a stepper?
[20:06:37] <factor> sorry was afk
[20:06:43] <factor> yes for a stepper
[20:06:55] <JT-Shop> toothed belt drive?
[20:06:59] <factor> the motor axle to gear axle bracket
[20:07:08] <factor> worm gear
[20:07:37] <JT-Shop> should be simple enough to make... just slot the motor mount a bit so you can adjust the backlash
[20:08:14] <JT-Shop> worm gear could have too much backlash for an axis I think
[20:08:26] <factor> -| |-
[20:08:28] <JT-Shop> just depends on the machine I guess
[20:08:40] <factor> like that with bolts along the outter rim
[20:08:47] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: did you get the axle yet?
[20:08:53] <factor> viewed from side
[20:09:14] <JT-Shop> Danimal_garage: no, he is taking it out... just waiting for his call
[20:10:24] <Danimal_garage> ah
[20:10:35] <Danimal_garage> do you have your plan together for the most part?
[20:11:30] <JT-Shop> sort of... I'll build a fixture using the old axle housing to line things up as I fabricate the new housing
[20:11:55] <JT-Shop> using it as a guide to build the fixture
[20:13:07] <JT-Shop> it has drum brakes so I'm not sure what I want to do with that
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[20:13:54] <Danimal_garage> ditch them lol
[20:14:45] <JT-Shop> yea, I kinda had that thought too
[20:14:48] <Danimal_garage> maybe get some motorcycle rotors and callipers
[20:15:12] <JT-Shop> there is a motorcycle junk yard about 30 miles from here...
[20:15:14] <Danimal_garage> rear callipers, you don't want fronts, way overkill since you'll have 2
[20:15:24] <factor> http://www.turbocompressori.net/motoring_coupling.htm Like these parts , but only have sheet metal to build them
[20:15:33] <factor> motor couplings
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[20:16:23] <JT-Shop> should be simple to make if you have a welder handy
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[20:17:04] <factor> Yes I have mig and arc and plasma
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[20:17:09] <JT-Shop> I'll have to go and have a look over there when I get a little closer
[20:17:25] <factor> mig is fine for this stuff , arc is too powerful
[20:17:58] <factor> using the plasma to cut the parts out.
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[20:18:32] <JT-Shop> just fab up a box with one side open for access to the coupling
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[20:19:43] <factor> was just going to the use the tightening screws to press against the axle
[20:19:59] <factor> on each side
[20:20:25] <factor> --+-| |--+--
[20:21:00] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: almost done with my engraver's subplate
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[20:21:51] <Danimal_garage> i put in threaded holes near each hole that attaches it to the machine so i can level it to the x/y travel
[20:23:00] <Danimal_garage> i should be able to try the machine on some actual parts pretty soon, maybe a few hours
[20:25:01] <JT-Shop> Neat!
[20:25:55] <JT-Shop> Danimal_garage: have you seen the leveling bolts with a fixing bolt in the center?
[20:26:28] <Danimal_garage> yea, i think i have those on my cnc mill
[20:26:49] <Danimal_garage> except much bigger
[20:26:59] <JT-Shop> no side pressures
[20:27:03] <Danimal_garage> yea
[20:27:29] <Danimal_garage> the mounting screws are 10-32, and the plate is 3/4" thick, i doubt it'll be a huge issue
[20:27:47] <JT-Shop> yea, I think your right :)
[20:28:15] <Danimal_garage> i'll probably throw some shim stock under it when i get it level
[20:28:23] <Danimal_garage> just to spread the load
[20:29:51] <Danimal_garage> i may rebuild the z axis to stiffen it up a bit, it does have a little flex
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[20:30:11] <Danimal_garage> use another linear slide or something
[20:30:21] <JT-Shop> not much side load on an engraving bit
[20:30:23] <Danimal_garage> it's not horrible though
[20:30:28] <Danimal_garage> exactly
[20:31:30] <Danimal_garage> however it'll help with tool life i think, especially on ti and stainless
[20:31:30] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:31:30] <Danimal_garage> the thing is pretty fast though, i was pretty stoked
[20:31:36] <Danimal_garage> i may try to increase the acceleration, it's at 90 now
[20:31:49] <JT-Shop> you going to use air or flood on it?
[20:31:52] <Danimal_garage> 600ipm velocity
[20:32:04] <JT-Shop> damm that is fast
[20:32:11] <Danimal_garage> probably nothing, maybe a dab of oil
[20:32:21] <Danimal_garage> i wont be going deep
[20:32:27] <Danimal_garage> just a few thou
[20:32:49] <Danimal_garage> just keep my mini shop vac near by
[20:33:22] <Danimal_garage> i haven't tried increasing the velocity or accel yet, i just went by the catalog's specs for the velocity
[20:33:31] <Danimal_garage> just guessed on the accel
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[20:35:06] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: how much do you think your slab cost, all things included?
[20:35:25] <Danimal_garage> for the shop
[20:35:29] <JT-Shop> just a sec
[20:35:33] <Danimal_garage> ballpark
[20:36:28] <Danimal_garage> i'm seriously considering jumping on some land while it's cheap(er)
[20:37:03] <Danimal_garage> some decent lots in the .5-.75 acre range for like 20-30k out here, which is cheap for socal
[20:41:51] <JT-Shop> 4k for 30x32
[20:42:13] <Danimal_garage> hmm not bad
[20:42:24] <Danimal_garage> what was the most expensive part?
[20:42:34] <Danimal_garage> rebar?
[20:42:39] <JT-Shop> I have about 12k in the whole shop doing all the work myself on the building
[20:42:48] <Danimal_garage> wow that's great
[20:42:54] <Danimal_garage> REALLY good
[20:43:02] <JT-Shop> I just got the one bill from the concrete guy
[20:43:07] <Danimal_garage> cheaper than a steel building i think
[20:43:20] <JT-Shop> I'm sure the concrete is the most expensive part
[20:43:24] <Danimal_garage> including wiring and insulation?
[20:43:28] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:43:32] <Danimal_garage> wow
[20:43:37] <Danimal_garage> screw the steel building
[20:43:59] <Danimal_garage> it was about 10k for the steel building with no doors or insulation or anything
[20:44:05] <JT-Shop> 960 sq feet
[20:44:08] <Danimal_garage> nice
[20:44:21] <Danimal_garage> about 10 yards of cement?
[20:44:24] <JT-Shop> just depends on material costs in your area
[20:44:42] <JT-Shop> took two trucks as I recall
[20:44:56] <Danimal_garage> ok over 10 yards then
[20:45:03] <Danimal_garage> 10 yards per truck
[20:45:07] <JT-Shop> plus one for the footer but I don't know how much they had on them each trip
[20:45:19] <Danimal_garage> yea, i wouldnt need a footer
[20:45:30] <andypugh> My half-baked plans for a dedicated workshop (throwing swarf all over the bikes is sub-optimal) envisages something 8' x 10'
[20:45:50] <ds3> cargo container on concrete slab?
[20:45:53] <Danimal_garage> our slabs are flat here lol
[20:46:14] <JT-Shop> from the photos it took two full trucks for the slab
[20:46:20] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/foundation/foundation.xhtml
[20:46:22] <Danimal_garage> wow
[20:46:45] <Danimal_garage> about 70-100 per yard usually i've read
[20:46:49] <andypugh> Anyhthing I do will have to be brick with a tile roof.
[20:46:50] <Danimal_garage> $
[20:46:55] <JT-Shop> they got about 1/2 done with the first truck
[20:47:23] <JT-Shop> yea I think in the $80-90 a yard range
[20:47:45] <andypugh> Which is easy compared to my parent's area, where their outhouse is random stone, with a stone roof.
[20:48:08] <JT-Shop> and Andy would have to support the planning commission first to get approval I bet
[20:48:33] <Danimal_garage> there's a 2.5 acre lot not too far from here, i think they want like 50k, about twice what i wanted to spend, but may be worth it
[20:48:33] <JT-Shop> does it have 3 phase?
[20:48:33] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: improved land?
[20:49:28] <Danimal_garage> prob gunna be hard to get 3 phase no matter where i go
[20:49:28] <Danimal_garage> improved land?
[20:49:28] <ds3> andypugh: not in earthquake country, I take it?
[20:49:28] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: Does it have sewer, water, electricity?
[20:49:28] <andypugh> No, no earthquakes in the UK.
[20:49:29] <JT-Shop> you don't run anything big so phase converter is an easy solution
[20:49:40] <Danimal_garage> Jymmm: nearby, yes
[20:49:53] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: i hate to be limited
[20:49:56] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: Nearby isn't necessarily the same thing.
[20:49:58] <Danimal_garage> i want a decent sized vmc
[20:50:12] <Danimal_garage> Jymmm: close enough
[20:50:14] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: ok
[20:50:39] <JT-Shop> Dan is it a rural area?
[20:50:39] <Danimal_garage> septic at most of the lots i've browsed
[20:50:47] <andypugh> I guess the 100 tons of sandstone slabs that make up my parent's roof would be scary in earthquake country. http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/Front.JPG
[20:50:50] <Danimal_garage> semi rural
[20:51:15] <Danimal_garage> outskirts of the cirty
[20:51:37] <JT-Shop> andypugh: are they drilled and pegged?
[20:51:42] <andypugh> Yes.
[20:52:26] <andypugh> And it's a hell of a job. We did it al ourselves. It is like dry-stone walling with two more degrees of freedom.
[20:53:22] <andypugh> In progress: http://www.bodgesoc.org/roof2.jpg
[20:53:29] <JT-Shop> Danimal_garage: my VMC is a smaller one X 18", Y 12" Z 16" but the spindle is only about 7.5hp so works fine on the phase converter
[20:53:59] <JT-Shop> ah ok furring strips under the leading edge
[20:54:23] <JT-Shop> is that about an 8-12 pitch roof?
[20:57:01] <andypugh> JT almost exactly 45 degrees. Sticky trainers can almost, but not quite, stand on it.
[20:57:06] <Danimal_garage> i just hate phase converters
[20:57:37] <andypugh> We think it is the right pitch for thatch, rather steeper than normal for stone.
[20:57:56] <andypugh> The barn to the right of the second picture has a more usual pitch.
[20:58:46] <JT-Shop> wow that is a 12-12 pitch
[20:59:55] <andypugh> That side has the eaves 5' off the ground, but is about 2' deeper inside.
[21:01:38] <andypugh> If you look here: http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/Hall3.JPG that window is practically at ground level in the other photo.
[21:02:47] <JT-Shop> that's some huge timbers framing the roof
[21:03:11] <andypugh> There is a lot of weight to hold.
[21:03:58] <andypugh> The rafters are actually 3x the depth they appear, as there is insulation and plasterboard between them
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[21:04:41] <andypugh> It's not a terribly _practical_ building.
[21:05:54] <JT-Shop> a few sailing ships did not get built to build buildings like that
[21:06:57] <andypugh> That house was built 100 years before the spanish Armada, they had a new crop of oaks by then.
[21:07:49] <andypugh> The main A-frame you see might even be 200 years older than that.
[21:08:10] <JT-Shop> that's old and must have been built to stay
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[21:09:31] <JT-Shop> I'm heading out so I talk to you guys later
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[21:16:59] <Danimal_garage> adios
[21:39:22] <Danimal_garage> yay, the sub plate is done
[21:39:28] <Danimal_garage> time to mount it up
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[21:53:00] <Tom_itx> Danimal_garage, don't forget.. things are cheaper in swampeast Mo than Ca
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[21:59:46] <Danimal_garage> not really
[21:59:54] <Danimal_garage> probably more
[22:00:14] <Tom_itx> you think?
[22:00:14] <Danimal_garage> too much competition here
[22:00:16] <Danimal_garage> i know
[22:00:20] <Tom_itx> i think concrete is about the same as here
[22:00:25] <Danimal_garage> i've lived elsewhere
[22:00:25] <Tom_itx> ~80/yd or so
[22:00:40] <Danimal_garage> san diego is cheap for labor
[22:00:56] <Danimal_garage> plus i have a friend who's a GC so i can get his discounts
[22:01:06] <Tom_itx> well, i suppose that could be since he's in the middle of nowhere
[22:01:29] <Tom_itx> they probably won't let you stick build though
[22:01:30] <Danimal_garage> yea, even car insurance is cheaper here
[22:01:35] <Tom_itx> block or metal?
[22:01:50] <Danimal_garage> stick build?
[22:01:56] <Tom_itx> wood
[22:01:58] <Tom_itx> 2x4 etc
[22:02:01] <Danimal_garage> there's wood houses here, i live in one
[22:02:09] <Tom_itx> but for a shop..
[22:02:10] <Danimal_garage> they're all wood for the most part
[22:02:23] <Danimal_garage> it'll be a garage
[22:02:29] <Danimal_garage> as far as they know
[22:02:57] <Tom_itx> well, that's how my friend got started
[22:03:08] <Danimal_garage> it's actually cheap to live here, other than house prices
[22:03:21] <Danimal_garage> you don't really need heat or a/c
[22:03:38] <Danimal_garage> so much competition, it's always cheap to buy stuff
[22:04:00] <Danimal_garage> half the web based stores are here, so i can get the same prices locally
[22:04:27] <Danimal_garage> labor is cheap because mexico is 40 miles away
[22:04:48] <Tom_itx> we have plenty of that here as well
[22:04:55] <Danimal_garage> where?
[22:04:59] <Tom_itx> Ks
[22:05:03] <Danimal_garage> h
[22:05:04] <Tom_itx> but probably not as much
[22:05:06] <Danimal_garage> ah*
[22:06:36] <Danimal_garage> i pay my gardener $12 an hour, and he works really hard
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[22:12:47] <andypugh> I wonder what colour my mill is?
[22:13:02] <Jymmm> hot pink
[22:13:16] <Danimal_garage> color*
[22:13:26] <Tom_itx> no, he's english
[22:13:27] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5600023876027435058
[22:13:30] <Tom_itx> it's colour
[22:13:41] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: He's British, but I don't hald against him (too much)
[22:13:47] <andypugh> It's an english mill too, and probably a BS paint code.
[22:13:48] <Jymmm> hold
[22:14:06] <Tom_itx> battleship grey
[22:14:14] <andypugh> However, it isn't the original colour.
[22:14:19] <Danimal_garage> color*
[22:15:13] <Danimal_garage> I'm going to start throwing extra letters into words and say i'm british
[22:15:16] <Danimal_garage> :)
[22:15:33] <Danimal_garage> jk
[22:15:50] <andypugh> The 7i65 driver gets "analogue input" pins and there is nothing you can do about it :-)
[22:16:47] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: No worries, I just wait till Brits go to write html/css using "colour" and laugh my ass off =)
[22:16:55] <andypugh> Anyway, I don't think it is any of the coulouroues here; http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Machinery-Colours/
[22:17:24] <andypugh> You sure that doesn't work? HTML was invented by a brit..
[22:18:52] <Danimal_garage> haha
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[22:22:39] <andypugh> You might not be so far off with the Battleship Grey: Possibly Admiralty Grey
[22:22:46] <andypugh> http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/BS381C-Paints.html
[22:23:06] <Danimal_garage> greuy*
[22:23:37] <Tom_itx> well, i wasn't really joking about it :)
[22:23:42] <Danimal_garage> forgot what i came out here four....
[22:23:45] <Tom_itx> it was a common color
[22:23:51] <Tom_itx> fore
[22:24:07] <Danimal_garage> four, it's the british way of saying for
[22:24:12] <Tom_itx> ahh
[22:24:16] <Tom_itx> you damn brits
[22:24:20] <Danimal_garage> haha
[22:24:23] <andypugh> Well, the actual colour of battleships is a lot darker.
[22:24:26] <Danimal_garage> i actually am british
[22:24:39] <Danimal_garage> last name is Wilcox
[22:24:46] <Danimal_garage> apparently i have a castle somewhere
[22:24:47] <Tom_itx> true
[22:27:21] <Tom_itx> i wonder how small i can get this probe and still have it work good
[22:28:46] <andypugh> Danimal_garage: You might be Welsh. http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/BS381C-Paints.html
[22:28:49] <andypugh> Doh!
[22:29:00] <andypugh> http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,357967.0.html
[22:29:22] <Danimal_garage> ha
[22:29:39] <Danimal_garage> as long as i'm not Polish
[22:29:50] <Danimal_garage> oh shit, i am...
[22:30:01] <Danimal_garage> anyone have a gun?
[22:32:13] <Tom_itx> not for hire
[22:33:22] <Jymmm> what he said
[22:33:36] <Jymmm> unless the price is right
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[22:38:14] <factor> Was trying to find a good way to make a coupler. Just went to Lowes and bought a thick 5/8ths rod will drill holes at each end and a side hole for each side for tightening/locking screws.
[22:38:32] <factor> Think that should world
[22:38:36] <Danimal_garage> wowsers, glad i put leveling jacks on this sub plate, it's way off
[22:38:38] <andypugh> Badly.
[22:39:03] <Tom_itx> factor, use a reamer
[22:39:07] <andypugh> (I have a real downer on grub screws for holding shafts)
[22:39:34] <factor> Tom_itx, a reamer is for threads correct
[22:39:40] <Tom_itx> no
[22:39:46] <factor> this is just a 5/8ths rod
[22:39:48] <factor> oh
[22:39:51] <Tom_itx> for the shaft holes
[22:40:01] <factor> the reamer that comes with tap and die kits?
[22:40:19] <Tom_itx> no
[22:40:30] <Tom_itx> the reamer that is the right size for each shaft
[22:40:34] <andypugh> I have never seen a reamer with a tap and die set
[22:40:41] <Tom_itx> nor i
[22:41:30] <andypugh> Reamer: http://www.thesurfacegrinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Reamer.jpg
[22:41:56] <andypugh> For making holes exactly the right size. Probably only costs about 4x the price of a coupling..
[22:42:14] <Tom_itx> factor, drill the hole ~ .005 to .010" undersize then ream the hole
[22:43:01] <andypugh> factor: Do you have a lathe?
[22:45:04] <Tom_itx> q.
[22:45:18] <Tom_itx> if you had neither, would you buy a lathe or a mill first?
[22:46:46] <andypugh> Lathe
[22:47:28] <factor> sorry was afk , catching up
[22:48:03] <factor> Ok I know what that is .
[22:48:09] <factor> My dad has one around
[22:48:32] <andypugh> The chances of it being the right one are slim.
[22:48:46] <factor> No lathe on hand , would have to dig my dads out
[22:49:22] <andypugh> That would be the best way. With a lathe you don't need a reamer, just bore to the correct diamter.
[22:49:58] <factor> k
[22:50:42] <andypugh> You could even make something like this: http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/266520734/sell_Clamp_Rigid_Coupling.jpg
[22:51:13] <andypugh> (You can actually make that with a drill and a hacksaw, though probably not as neatly)
[22:51:21] <Tom_itx> yeah, that would be better than the grub screw approach
[22:51:54] <factor> andypugh, yes that is what I am going for
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[22:52:40] <andypugh> Draw a sketch first, you need a lot more diameter than you think to fit the threads and countebores in.
[22:52:42] <factor> but will have the screw press against the shaft. coupler is 5/8ths shaft is 5mm
[22:53:15] <Tom_itx> maybe not enough beef there
[22:53:24] <andypugh> Screw pressing against the shaft isn't very strong, damages the shaft, and pushes the shaft off-centre.
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[22:53:42] <andypugh> What sizes of tap and bolt do you have?
[22:54:05] <factor> will have to check the taps
[22:54:20] <andypugh> <pause while Autodesk Inventor starts up)
[22:54:21] <factor> will try to match them as close first to the 5mm and 7/16 axles
[22:57:23] <andypugh> Drill all the way through with the smaller size, then back-drill the larger. At least that way the holes should be in line.
[22:58:26] <Danimal_garage> got the sub plate indicated in the best i can... it's within a couple thou over 24"x17"
[22:58:45] <Danimal_garage> flat within a couple thou i should say
[22:58:56] <Danimal_garage> seems to have a little dish in the center
[22:59:03] <Danimal_garage> could be the linear rails
[22:59:32] <Danimal_garage> it was a mile off at first though
[22:59:44] <Danimal_garage> probably .05"
[22:59:50] <factor> sounds good
[23:00:11] <andypugh> Skim it true with the actual machine?
[23:01:57] <factor> Watching the first robotics games on ABC now
[23:02:44] <Danimal_garage> cant, it's only a router
[23:02:49] <andypugh> In what sense "first"?
[23:02:57] <Danimal_garage> it'd just make a mess
[23:03:43] <Danimal_garage> now i just need to make a reducer collet for the engraving bit, since i can't seem to find 1/8" collets anywhere for my router
[23:04:10] <Tom_itx> andypugh, on those clamps you need what.. about .250" wall?
[23:04:13] <Tom_itx> or not quite
[23:04:40] <andypugh> Youneed enough to fit the clamp threads in.
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[23:12:09] <Danimal_garage> i wouldn't try and make couplers, you're just asking for bearing issues in the motor and the machine
[23:12:28] <Danimal_garage> plus it'll likely come loose on you all the time
[23:12:47] <Tom_itx> those split couplers would probably be ok
[23:12:54] <Tom_itx> not like andypugh showed..
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[23:21:38] <atom1> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=16274&GroupID=52
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[23:24:45] <andypugh> McMaster Carr have a range, and are cheaper, I think.
[23:24:58] <andypugh> However, they won't let me look without creating a login.
[23:24:59] <Tom_itx> yeah i just knew where those were :)
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[23:56:57] <andypugh> factor: I think you can fit clamp screws into your 5/8"