#emc | Logs for 2011-08-02

[00:00:28] <PCW> we typically have only a few hundered bytes of free space in the remotes for this info
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[00:08:47] <andypugh> PCW, anonimasu: Perhaps that jump after homing is why I had the drive-offset parameter defaulting to 90, rather than the suggested zero. You could try experimenting...
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[00:32:08] <L84Supper> http://www.edmundoptics.com/products/displayproduct.cfm?productID=1844 trying to find a good use for the X-Y 0.5" travel stage
[00:32:30] <L84Supper> no longer need it for the microscope
[00:32:47] <L84Supper> maybe convert to a real-mini-mill
[00:34:15] <Tom_itx> become a watch maker?
[00:34:32] <L84Supper> any ideas?
[00:35:01] <Tom_itx> not much travel
[00:35:04] <L84Supper> 80 tpi screws
[00:37:12] <L84Supper> micro-machine
[00:37:36] <L84Supper> 0.5 micron accuracy
[00:38:08] <L84Supper> runout max 1.5 micron
[00:38:44] <L84Supper> I've never searched for micro spindles
[00:39:23] <Tom_itx> pager motor?
[00:39:26] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:40:15] <L84Supper> http://www.micromanufacturing.com/showthread.php?t=1096
[00:43:24] <L84Supper> allows the EDM turning of diameters down to 0.05mm (.002") with surfaces to Ra 0,2. http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/Rotary-Spindle-enables-EDM-turning-of-microstructures-493896
[00:44:33] <L84Supper> http://www.hirschmannusa.com/images/Rotary/H80R-MNCMa.jpg
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[01:50:14] <jrshaul> Does anyone here know if you can use the same tooling for metal and HDPE?
[01:50:35] <Tom_itx> i don't see why not
[01:50:39] <Tom_itx> HDPE cuts like butter
[01:50:45] <Tom_itx> needs to be sharp
[01:51:29] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/jig1.jpg
[01:51:39] <Tom_itx> i just cut those a couple days ago with regular endmills
[01:52:04] <jrshaul> Hmm.
[01:52:17] <jrshaul> Question #2: Does HDPE work for molding urethane resin?
[01:52:38] <Tom_itx> it probably would
[01:52:45] <L84Supper> if you use a release
[01:53:05] <Tom_itx> it's pretty slick, you might not need to do much with it
[01:53:11] <Tom_itx> but a release would be a good idea
[01:53:42] <Tom_itx> jrshaul, soft urethane?
[01:53:49] <L84Supper> you might get some bonding between polymers + urethane is pretty generic, you really don't know what they used in it
[01:53:49] <Tom_itx> like shore 20-30?
[01:54:34] <jrshaul> Hard urethane - shore ~55, I think.
[01:54:59] <jrshaul> The local hackerspace was donated about 300 gallons of it.
[01:55:02] <Tom_itx> it would work as a mold but i'd use a release agent
[01:55:06] <L84Supper> heh, fun
[01:55:36] <Tom_itx> use your imagination for release agents :D
[01:57:37] <l0st1nsp4c3> lard
[01:57:55] <l0st1nsp4c3> crisco...pam...butter....bacon grease?....local potato joint used oil!
[01:57:56] <L84Supper> finally a use for that leftover bacon fat
[01:58:00] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/sumo_files/sumo_wheelmold_index.php
[01:58:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> L84Supper hahaha same idea lol
[01:58:14] <Tom_itx> i added some screws to part the halves but i really didn't need em
[01:58:31] <Tom_itx> that's shore 30 using plexiglas as a mold
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[01:59:04] <l0st1nsp4c3> while milling lexan or plexiglass and hdpe anything toxic about it?
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[01:59:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> hdpe i doubt but lexan? plexiglass that i dunno
[01:59:29] <L84Supper> jrshaul: pour some onto the hdpe, see how much it sticks
[01:59:41] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:59:50] <Tom_itx> run a test piece if you're not sure
[01:59:56] <L84Supper> molding a large solid shape vs small thin features?
[02:04:50] <l0st1nsp4c3> i guess not?
[02:04:56] <jrshaul> Tom_itx: Nice!
[02:11:30] <Tom_itx> where is 'the local hackerspace' ?
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[03:27:54] <yk2> can someone with experience in emc and robotic arms help me?
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[04:42:16] <IG-garage> anonimasu: hello
[04:43:00] <IG-garage> Finally, have split the video with Lives to huge AVI files and encoded it to ogg, now uploading it to Youtube
[04:43:51] <Connor> okay, so, I opened up my parts bag for my new vice.. It has the two bolts with sides cut for the table... but, it had to smaller rectangular nuts and 2 small slotted screws.. (that don't fit the nuts).. any idea what those are for ?
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[04:47:18] <IG-garage> Connor: there are not many of them at *this* time (they are probably from the U.S.)
[05:14:26] <IG-garage> anonimasu: http://www.youtube.com/user/mainflower9#g/u
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[06:16:53] <Loetmichel> moin
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[06:29:00] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: howdy
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[06:59:56] <IG-garage> heh, going to talk to my boss (where have I been a month) or will go to the previous plant, another job (steam boilers).
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[07:13:46] * Loetmichel is just showing the apprentice how to Draw,cncmill and bend sheet brass parts for EMI shielding... LOOONG work... :-)
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[07:38:38] <archivist> Loetmichel, dont forget the accidental slot antenna :)
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[07:44:12] <Loetmichel> archivist: first part made entirely by my apprentice: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12195
[07:44:49] <Loetmichel> (EMI shielding fpr a laser board of a laserprinter
[07:45:37] <archivist> bending looks ok
[07:46:21] <awallin> why brass and not alu?
[07:46:29] <archivist> solderable
[07:46:37] <Loetmichel> cause one can solder brass
[07:46:45] <Loetmichel> exactly
[07:47:01] <archivist> mostly tinplate in production
[07:48:16] <archivist> was he supposed to have the huge gaps at the corners
[07:49:52] <Loetmichel> yes, ther will be a second part set in from above, effectively clamping the laserPCB
[07:50:34] <archivist> what max freq are you testing for
[07:50:43] <Loetmichel> archivist: bending is cheated, i told him to cut a 0,7mm wide slot at the bending places, 0,3mm depth
[07:50:54] <Loetmichel> (0,7mm thick brass))
[07:51:03] <Loetmichel> 3GHz
[07:51:13] <archivist> ew... low
[07:51:34] <Loetmichel> mil level1
[07:53:27] <archivist> my toys, I dont do it for a job http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2002/2002_05_09_Portacabin_Electronics/P1010017.JPG
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[08:07:44] <Loetmichel> archivist: i am working for a company which makes military PC and pheriperials
[08:08:18] <Loetmichel> i.e. modifies existing components too met amsg702B
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[08:18:40] <Loetmichel> archivist: but the CNC is my private one, normally we have no metalworking workshop.
[08:20:10] <Loetmichel> that has starteed as i got this job, 'cause i cant see the nbenefit of runnung to some metalworking contractor for each and every prototype.
[08:20:29] <IG-garage> oh, damn machine is bigger than my garage! Plasma, maybe.
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[08:21:08] <Loetmichel> with my little cnc and some filing skills we can make the prototypes ourselves and only the series will run externally.
[08:21:14] <Loetmichel> with my little cnc and some filing skills we can make the prototypes ourselves and only the series will run externally.
[08:21:28] <IG-garage> have finally changed the job, even new photos are needed for HRM department
[08:21:35] <Loetmichel> MUCH faster developement turnaround ;-)#
[08:23:57] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: your little cnc mills mild steel, after all, but this reminds the engraving than contemporary milling?
[08:24:14] <IG-garage> *usual milling
[08:25:18] <IG-garage> usual milling is relatively slow (depends on the way the detail is clamped) and the end mill or shell mill meets various height of cut
[08:29:22] <Loetmichel> IG-garage: right, in mild steel i usually cut depths of mabout 0,1 mm
[08:29:56] <Loetmichel> so its very slow to go through 10mm steel ;-)
[08:30:41] <Loetmichel> boss is hooked, though: if enough spare money is present we woll buy a haase AL1065
[08:30:49] <Loetmichel> for the company
[08:31:29] <Loetmichel> so we can mill 1000*650mm sheets of aluminium and brass and mild steel an a little faster
[08:32:40] <Loetmichel> my little cnc was build for making some model parts for my Hobby. it is not intended to do 24/7 work ;-)
[08:38:54] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: wow, I thought of 0.5 mm/pass with relatively slow feedrate, but 0.1 mm/pass sounds OK for almost any machine
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[08:39:23] <IG-garage> uhu...
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[08:40:34] <IG-garage> i think i will have to learn everything from zero. I know some tricks, but this professional drilling here... Will learn the machine while actually drilling.
[08:41:30] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: with what horizontal and vertical feed rates do you cut the 0.1 mm per pass in mild steel?
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[08:48:21] <Loetmichel> vertical: 120mm/min, horizontal : about 600-1000mm/s
[08:48:30] <Loetmichel> mm/min
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[09:02:52] <Loetmichel> hmmm... *knack* that was the second 1mm TC mill bit... the apprentice is getting expensive ;-) (my private tools)
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[09:53:45] <archivist> get the boss to pay for disposables!
[09:55:38] <anonimasu> it's the cost of doing buisness :)
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[10:16:45] <anonimasu> how many poles does the mesa aio cable have? (anyone knows without opening a manual)
[10:17:15] <anonimasu> 50pin.
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[10:37:23] <IG-garage> anonimasu: What do you think of such a workflow (video in 4 parts): http://www.youtube.com/user/mainflower9#g/u
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[10:48:22] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: and 'TC mill bit' is?
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[11:09:27] <anonimasu> PCW: I found 2 47ohm resistors at work at 50w
[11:09:39] <anonimasu> actually i found a box of 20
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[11:35:25] <Loetmichel> IG-garage: Tungsten carbide mill bit, 1mm cylindrical, 1/8" shank
[11:35:43] <Loetmichel> about 5 eur/piece
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[11:37:35] <Loetmichel> archivist: i will. but forst wait if the apprentice breaks more stuff, dont want to go for two bits, maybe later the invoice will be higher ;-)
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[12:09:21] <anonimasu> masu> how many poles does the mesa aio cable have? (anyone knows without opening a manual)
[12:09:24] <anonimasu> 12:17 < anonimasu> 50pin.
[12:09:26] <anonimasu> 12:18 -!- pingufan [~rainer@goliath.hantsch.co.at] has joined #emc
[12:10:43] <Tom_itx> ?
[12:10:50] <Tom_itx> anonimasu, it's a scsi cable
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[12:15:58] <Tom_itx> anonimasu, there's the pn if you need some plugs: http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/1658623-6/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtsLRyDR9nM18mJd%252baLxMG9Gx9l0SA0kMI%3d
[12:19:59] <anonimasu> i found them already and I do have some scsi cables around :)
[12:20:32] <anonimasu> managed to random paste
[12:20:58] <Tom_itx> i figured
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[12:37:38] <anonimasu> masu> how many poles does the mesa aio cable have? (anyone knows without opening a manual)
[12:37:41] <anonimasu> 12:17 < anonimasu> 50pin.
[12:37:44] <anonimasu> 12:18 -!- pingufan [~rainer@goliath.hantsch.co.at] has joined #emc
[12:37:53] <anonimasu> wtf.. again.
[12:38:04] <syyl> made my cables for the mesa card myself :D
[12:38:24] <anonimasu> i will for mine also
[12:38:33] <syyl> im a bit on the cheap side ;)
[12:38:34] <anonimasu> i got a steel shipment today some shafts for a machine
[12:38:56] <anonimasu> they didnt have the usual carbon steel shafts so they sent another one
[12:39:02] <anonimasu> it was a bit harder
[12:39:09] <syyl> a bit much?
[12:39:22] <anonimasu> my saw cut 1cm into it
[12:39:28] <anonimasu> then it was over.
[12:39:38] <syyl> motor stoped?
[12:39:41] <syyl> blade blunt?
[12:39:47] <anonimasu> c45
[12:39:51] <anonimasu> SS1650
[12:39:55] <anonimasu> blade went blunt
[12:39:57] <syyl> hu
[12:40:06] <syyl> c45 is not THAT strong Oo
[12:40:12] <syyl> or hard
[12:40:36] <anonimasu> it cuts worse then hardox.
[12:41:09] <syyl> strange
[12:41:29] <anonimasu> does it work harden?
[12:41:38] <syyl> c45?
[12:41:42] <syyl> not realy
[12:41:47] <syyl> its a carbon steel
[12:41:58] <syyl> with 0,45% carbon
[12:42:21] <anonimasu> it looks like it ought to cut better with saw then hardox..
[12:42:57] <anonimasu> maybe my saw blade was just dull
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[12:46:33] <syyl> it can be hardened
[12:46:39] <syyl> but does not workharden
[12:47:47] <syyl> i cut it dry on a bandsaw ;)
[12:47:51] <syyl> not to fast
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[13:22:09] <ktchk> Hi kimk
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[13:45:02] <hatch789> anyone know if PCW is around or is he afk?
[13:47:23] <anonimasu> hatch789: probably sleeping but if you ask he might show up or someone else might be able to help you
[13:49:06] <OpenSpace> hello people. Anyone knows how to set default limits on ssh login for non-root user? I am able to run emc as root trough ssh -X but can't set ulimit -l as non-root or set pam to do it for me
[13:52:45] <cradek> lots of clues here: http://www.google.com/search?q=emc2+memlock
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[13:59:16] <OpenSpace> yes, I know for such settings, at local login it would probably work but this is ssh and I just cant set limits for ssh user other than root
[14:01:42] <cradek> Either you are mistaken that the limits.conf settings only affect local logins, or your system is different from other users'. I hear lots of people run over ssh.
[14:02:38] <OpenSpace> I cant even set 'ulimit -l' as normal user over ssh
[14:03:27] <OpenSpace> this is debian squeeze rtai 3.8.1
[14:04:20] <cradek> a non-root user can never raise his limits
[14:04:25] <OpenSpace> now I can use it only if I login as root over ssh
[14:04:27] <OpenSpace> I know
[14:04:34] <cradek> it has nothing to do with ssh
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[14:05:20] <OpenSpace> but those settings for pam limits are just not working here
[14:05:39] <cradek> why don't you say what you have done
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[14:14:01] <OpenSpace> ok, installed diskless and headless box, debian squeeze, kernel, rtai 3.8.1, all trough ssh (there is no graphic card), all that works except settings for limits for normal user trough ssh
[14:14:26] <OpenSpace> http://pastebin.com/m3zrkBuc
[14:15:32] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
[14:15:39] <cradek> have you tried * - ... instead of * hard ... ?
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[14:17:14] <OpenSpace> ok, trying...
[14:19:28] <OpenSpace> works, thank you very much
[14:19:33] <cradek> yay
[14:19:44] <OpenSpace> I've been trying to hack pam
[14:19:45] <OpenSpace> hehe
[14:20:00] <OpenSpace> neko@less:~$ ulimit -l
[14:20:00] <OpenSpace> 20480
[14:21:55] <anonimasu> hello
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[14:31:22] <ktchk> hi kimk
[14:35:36] <IG-garage> anonimasu: did you see those videos (10 min, 3, 8 and 10 minutes) ?
[14:37:02] <IG-garage> video in 4 parts how I have edited the file in CAM software, used postprocessor to create the g-code program, and have tweaked the g-code program
[14:37:03] <IG-garage> http://www.youtube.com/user/mainflower9#g/u
[14:39:43] <anonimasu> strive to fix that problem that makes you require tweaking
[14:41:08] <anonimasu> it's not _safe_
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[14:43:26] <IG-garage> anonimasu: what, edit the way postprocessor is working? maybe, but it's too hard. Also, I arrange the feedrates for roughing and finishing
[14:48:19] <anonimasu> no it's not too hard
[14:48:23] <anonimasu> it's the way you should do it
[14:48:28] <anonimasu> hand tweaking leads to errors
[14:49:57] <anonimasu> and usually they might be _not_ good ones
[14:49:58] <anonimasu> :)
[14:54:20] <IG-garage> anonimasu: but you visualize this tweaked g-code in EMC then
[14:55:09] <IG-garage> anonimasu: in SprutCAM, postprocessor file can be edited, but I don't know how to do it.
[14:57:02] <anonimasu> there shoudld be a tutorial/gide something on the net you can get
[14:58:07] * anonimasu looks at a haas vf3
[14:58:11] <anonimasu> they cost like a new car. :p
[14:58:13] <IG-garage> well, maybe. but unless I'm sure we are using this proprietary commercial stuff, I do not get in it
[14:58:36] <IG-garage> 'vayfarer three' is suzuki or so
[15:00:34] <anonimasu> isnt proving it works good a reason to use comercial stuff
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[15:05:57] <IG-garage> anonimasu: I would prefer to use heeksCNC for turning if the Turning would be implemented. For a while, I think these companies pay to hackers for them to restrict the use of unregistered copies. Russian SprutCAM does something. Have to use 2007 version for learning it.
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[15:06:37] <IG-garage> So, it will be tricky to visualise certain g-code program in EMC if the code isn't of RS274NGC standard.
[15:07:00] <anonimasu> i think that's bs, about being paid not to do stuff it's not as simple as it seems creating a cam program
[15:07:01] <IG-garage> The machine is like a garage in size, anonimasu
[15:07:10] <IG-garage> I have seen it today occasionally
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[15:09:07] <IG-garage> In nearest city, illegal installations for the cost of about USD 1750 become illegal 'de-facto' and lead to bribe, or money.
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[15:09:26] <anonimasu> i started working on cam stuff with awallin a long time ago, and while the algorithms arent extremely impossible to implement, everything around that's nescessary turns out to be alot of work
[15:09:38] <IG-garage> so, everybody are stopping to install illegal Windows for money here in Russia.
[15:09:58] <tom3p> anonimasu, were you interested in sinus 2 ttl? i found old prints,2 chip solution
[15:10:31] <IG-garage> anonimasu: e.g. HeeksCNC already has photos of algorithms for turning on its website.
[15:12:00] <ktchk> hi kimk
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[15:38:19] <pcw_home> Brrr 56 degrees in N cafilornia
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[15:45:09] <skunkworks_> heh - 80 here
[15:45:16] <skunkworks_> and humid
[15:45:20] <skunkworks_> yeck
[15:46:54] <JT-Work> 100F here today
[15:47:33] <skunkworks_> JT-Work: how is the air working in the shop?
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[15:48:09] <JT-Work> great, it keeps it at 68-70 without much effort
[15:48:38] <awallin> http://www.springerlink.com/content/kt34074n82634205/
[15:48:47] <JT-Work> only 12k btu for 1000 ft sq
[15:51:01] <skunkworks_> yah - the new air units are pretty sweet.
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[16:21:20] <anonimasu> im very tempted to set up my lathe with sealed way covers with positive pressure so could do ID and OD grinding at it later.
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[16:34:13] <tom3p> how can I use mesa 7i65? ( esp. for 8 single ended analog inputs) do i need a special branch? firmware for 5i20?
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[16:39:30] <pcw_home> Theres an uncommited patch to support the 7I65 (from Andy Pugh)
[16:40:07] <pcw_home> Would not suggest it for 7I43 (too many I/O cycles)
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[16:49:42] <tom3p> pcw_home, thx, i'm using a 5i20. what's 'too many cycles'? how many thread cycles are needed?
[16:50:32] <tom3p> ^^^ should i direct the Q to Andy?
[16:51:49] <anonimasu> I need the damn lathe so i can make taper lock couplers for my timing belt gears.
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[17:00:37] <pcw_home> Its just that there are like 50 or more 32 bit read and write cycles and the 7I43 takes like 6-8 usec per cycle
[17:03:02] <pcw_home> (so 5I20 is fine, 7i43 will end up using 25% of CPU doing I/O cycles vs maybe 3% for 5i20)
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[17:08:38] <anonimasu> the big question is if aluminium will do for motor mounts..
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[17:09:28] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: there are match different ALU available
[17:09:38] <IchGuckLive> AL74 is grasy
[17:09:44] <anonimasu> 6061-t6
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[17:09:53] <IchGuckLive> Duran aluminum 1600 will hold as Steel
[17:09:55] <anonimasu> 20mm thick
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[17:13:10] <anonimasu> yeah im wise enough to know steel will be better, but aluminium would be easy as I have stock cut already and doing it from steel requires waiting for tomorrow so i can flame cut the rough shape
[17:14:50] <IchGuckLive> i try to find a Datasheet of your material BUT if you have this in stock and you woudt not like to wait go for it
[17:15:16] <anonimasu> or should simply rough it out of 40mm plate on the oxyfuel and machine everything into it instead of making spacers for the motor.
[17:15:37] <IchGuckLive> whats the KW of the motor
[17:15:45] <anonimasu> 1.9
[17:16:02] <IchGuckLive> holding diameter Flanche?
[17:16:11] <anonimasu> 93mm flange
[17:16:17] <anonimasu> err 95
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[17:16:29] <anonimasu> 4x m10 on a 115mm bc
[17:16:46] <IchGuckLive> datasheet http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061t6
[17:17:00] <anonimasu> screw it, i'll flame cut them tomorrow, then I have a drilling op and some counterboring to get done
[17:17:33] <IchGuckLive> 276MPa
[17:18:06] <anonimasu> mhm, more stable then mild steel would be.
[17:18:56] <IchGuckLive> That Equals N/mm²
[17:19:24] <anonimasu> yep mild steel would be about 250n/mm2
[17:19:24] <IchGuckLive> or 27,6KG/mm²
[17:19:39] <anonimasu> or I should cut it out of the 20mm hardox plate to make sure :D
[17:20:11] <anonimasu> 1000n/mm^2 yeild strength..
[17:20:25] <anonimasu> :]
[17:21:12] <anonimasu> i'll rough it out of steel, tomorrow
[17:21:21] <anonimasu> then i can rough the spacer part in the same setup
[17:23:02] <IchGuckLive> i calculatad a safty Factor on the given Numbers to 4.3 so go for it !!!
[17:24:20] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: B)
[17:28:22] <anonimasu> flame cutting it would land me +1mm or so worst case :)
[17:28:43] <IchGuckLive> go for the ALU
[17:29:18] <anonimasu> it's kindof pointless, it'll be faster to flame cut it for me, i'll have a sheet of 15mm steel to cut tomorrow anyway
[17:29:33] <anonimasu> then 4 holes, and machining of the the spacer id
[17:29:38] <anonimasu> err 6 holes..
[17:30:27] <IchGuckLive> do what ever you want end of Conv.!
[17:31:36] <syyl_> go for steel
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[17:31:50] <syyl_> flame cutting is much cooler than anything else :D
[17:33:58] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:34:19] <IchGuckLive> syyl_: LASER _cut
[17:34:36] <syyl_> oxy/acetylene is more fun
[17:34:52] <IchGuckLive> underwater ?
[17:35:28] <syyl_> underwater, use plasma...
[17:36:31] <skunkworks_> we used whatever we could find. The x/y axis is a steel plate - the y axis is aluminum + some cast
[17:37:12] <syyl_> uhm
[17:37:21] <syyl_> what will the plate be used?
[17:38:10] <syyl_> don't get why you are refering to strenght...
[17:38:23] <syyl_> machines are designed by stiffness, not strenght
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[17:45:10] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/x-z_servomount.jpg
[17:45:27] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/x-zservo_mount.jpg
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[17:47:18] <IchGuckLive> the U-Frames are Nasty
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[17:51:02] <anonimasu> i think steel is perferable as alu tends to resonate alot more.
[17:51:15] <Tom_itx> use lead
[17:51:16] <anonimasu> syyl_: but the yeild strength is proportional to stiffness
[17:52:36] <anonimasu> sorry. wrong
[17:52:43] <anonimasu> modulus of elasticity.. im talking about
[17:52:50] <anonimasu> steel has 3 times of Al
[17:53:16] <syyl_> jep
[17:53:31] <syyl_> and all steels have the same modulus of elas...
[17:53:59] <syyl_> but anyway, go for steel :D
[17:54:10] <syyl_> if you have the possibility to flame cut it..
[17:54:54] <anonimasu> that's what im thinking also, and i wont have to rough the rounded part around the edge either
[17:55:56] <anonimasu> :)
[17:56:36] <anonimasu> http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/mount.png
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[17:58:00] <syyl_> rough it out, touch up with the big anglegrinder, then drill and counterbore :D
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[18:00:13] <anonimasu> yep :)
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[18:00:33] <anonimasu> since I have more parts I can tweak them so the texture will be near perfect
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[18:17:35] <anonimasu> http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/mount2.png
[18:17:40] <anonimasu> the second part is more heavy tho
[18:17:40] <anonimasu> :)
[18:17:59] <Tom_itx> busy making motor mounts?
[18:18:28] <anonimasu> busy designing them
[18:19:30] <syyl_> i see a welded and machined part
[18:19:31] <syyl_> ;)
[18:19:53] <anonimasu> haha no way
[18:20:09] <syyl_> why? :D
[18:20:19] <syyl_> cut the two plates, weld, machine
[18:20:41] <anonimasu> that wouldnt look too good :p
[18:20:52] <syyl_> anglegrinder ;)
[18:21:18] <syyl_> makes everything nice
[18:21:25] <syyl_> or machine it from solid...
[18:21:34] <syyl_> my prefered way for anything ;)
[18:22:36] <Tom_itx> anonimasu, make sure you use a bull nose cutter on the inside of the flange for strength
[18:23:32] <anonimasu> haha
[18:23:36] <anonimasu> im not doing htat
[18:23:37] <anonimasu> that
[18:23:47] <anonimasu> 45mm steel plate?!
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[18:24:34] <anonimasu> I need the spacer so I can machine it thinner until alignment is perfect
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[18:24:55] <anonimasu> or im gonna have to make a spacer so I can make the gear alignment on the motor shaft perfect
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[18:25:48] <anonimasu> Tom_itx: it's not a life support device :D
[18:26:42] <Tom_itx> it might be
[18:27:06] <anonimasu> so your suggesting that I cut it out of 50mm solid stock
[18:27:17] <anonimasu> no oxyfuel cutting or anything since that might create stress
[18:27:18] <anonimasu> :)
[18:27:27] <skunkworks_> wow - this has come a long way http://youtu.be/QU_O_Z7Vv8c
[18:27:53] <skunkworks_> I think I forget the amount of work that was involved. It was easy! ;)
[18:28:13] <anonimasu> haha I feel like O_O when I see what's ahead to get the lathe working
[18:28:25] <anonimasu> but every piece i get stuck there makes it feel easier and easier
[18:29:10] <anonimasu> what will you make with that monster?!
[18:29:45] <Tom_itx> anonimasu, yes and pay close attention to the grain direction when you do
[18:30:36] <anonimasu> baby mills?
[18:30:39] <danimal_garage> hi
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[18:31:19] <anonimasu> you could probably machine yourself a vmc on that :D
[18:31:30] <danimal_garage> mills for babies?
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[18:34:16] <danimal_garage> i got my home and limit switches wired up last night... just gotta wait for my 7i33 to come
[18:35:24] <danimal_garage> then the magic happens :)
[18:35:55] <danimal_garage> ok this computer sucks, brb
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[18:40:28] <skunkworks_> anonimasu: so far it has been my projects and parts for itself.. :)
[18:42:30] <skunkworks_> I think I have the tool changer working better - every once in a while the arm would not line up perfectly with the pocket/spindle. All it really took was a short delay when the arm was vertical so it would settle.
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[19:17:11] <Danimal_garage> thats better.
[19:17:30] <Danimal_garage> different computer, just a touch faster
[19:18:23] <skunkworks_> skosh?
[19:19:10] <Danimal_garage> skosh?
[19:19:48] <Jymmm> a little but faster == skosh
[19:19:51] <Jymmm> bit
[19:19:59] <Danimal_garage> ah
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[19:22:23] <Danimal_garage> it's a windows machine though
[19:22:33] <Danimal_garage> was my htpc
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[19:32:56] <Jymmm> Does anyone know some airflow website I can read about CFM/SP and sizes of ducts openings etc?
[19:33:01] JT-Shop_ is now known as JT-Shop
[19:34:16] <Jymmm> Hi JT
[19:36:17] <anonimasu> skunkworks_: no limit switches?
[19:36:23] <anonimasu> err switches on toolchanger position?
[19:36:45] <anonimasu> skunkworks_: in general it's way better to write plc code so that you check against a input, then try to do stuff by timing
[19:37:08] <anonimasu> and even if then add a diagnostic timeout so you can diagnose errors :)
[19:37:29] <skunkworks_> yes - but it is all hydraulic. So it hits the switch and then would pull the arm back in. THe problem is sometimes when it would spin around it would bounce against the hardstop. (why I put the delay in)
[19:37:56] <anonimasu> sounds like a geometrical problem of the toolchanger design
[19:38:11] <skunkworks_> so now it sees the switch - waits .5 second - pulls tool in.
[19:39:45] <skunkworks_> you can kinda see it here. The arm acutally slows down before it hits the limit with a flow control valve.
[19:39:47] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh4YD0d071c
[19:40:19] <anonimasu> if you have proportional control you might be able to kick the slide in reverse to make it stop
[19:40:28] <Danimal_garage> skunkworks_: i have issues with timing on my toolchanger too. It's mostly hyraullic and pneumatic
[19:40:41] <Danimal_garage> when it's cold out, it moves too slow
[19:40:56] <anonimasu> you just peak it for a few ms in reverse to make the slide unstick
[19:40:58] <Jymmm> You need a hydraulic 555 ;)
[19:41:05] <skunkworks_> heh
[19:41:07] <Danimal_garage> i used up most of the timer modules in classic ladder in just my toolchanger alone lol
[19:41:21] <anonimasu> typically response time for the huydralics range into 100's of ms..
[19:41:22] <archivist> no, you need a constant viscosity oil
[19:41:43] <skunkworks_> heh - I have very few timers... the machine has a switch for everything it seems..
[19:41:54] <Danimal_garage> archivist: it takes days to bleed this thing, whatever's in there is staying in there lol
[19:42:09] <archivist> hehe
[19:42:26] <Danimal_garage> i even have a timer relay wired in for the power drawbar
[19:42:48] <Danimal_garage> so the drawbar doesn't start spinning till the spindle brake is completely activated
[19:43:36] <Danimal_garage> one thing i'd like to do is have the power drawbar shut off when it reaches a certain current draw
[19:43:45] <Danimal_garage> but i have no clue how to do that
[19:43:47] <anonimasu> hehe :D
[19:44:18] <Danimal_garage> or at least i have no clue how to measure the current draw and report it to emc
[19:44:27] <anonimasu> shunt resistor and a opamp
[19:44:50] <Danimal_garage> i know what neither of those are lol
[19:44:51] <archivist> hall effect current sensor
[19:44:58] <anonimasu> better option
[19:45:28] <Danimal_garage> archivist: is that wired in, or is it along the lines of a clamp on current meter?
[19:46:02] <archivist> like a clamp on yes
[19:46:46] <archivist> a lot of clamps on now use hall effect rather than the old coil
[19:47:00] <Danimal_garage> cool
[19:47:06] <Danimal_garage> that might work
[19:47:37] <Danimal_garage> i wonder if i can get an accurate enough reading from an electric impact gun.... i'm sure it fluxuates a lot
[19:48:52] <Danimal_garage> i think it would be safer for the drawbar if it shut off at a certain torque instead of running on timers
[19:49:25] <archivist> yup and an error is the high torque is too early
[19:49:30] <archivist> is/if
[19:49:31] <Danimal_garage> i wonder if the current will relate to the torque enough to rely on it
[19:49:43] <archivist> not at start up
[19:50:15] <archivist> or yes you will see the starting torque too, so ignore that
[19:50:30] <Danimal_garage> yea easy enough
[19:52:10] <archivist> Im wondering if I dare rewire a 2speed 440 3phase motor to a single speed 240 v 3 phase
[19:53:01] <Danimal_garage> have a not so close friend plug it in for you
[19:53:13] <archivist> hehe
[19:53:21] <archivist> an enemy you mean
[19:53:25] <Danimal_garage> or an unwanted cousin
[19:53:40] <archivist> left hand drawing possibly http://hobby-machinist.com/index.php?topic=1188.0
[19:53:41] <Danimal_garage> not an enemy, more of a frienemy
[19:53:57] <Danimal_garage> why, is it smeared?
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[19:55:05] <Danimal_garage> ohhh... nevermind, i thought you meant a lefty drew it
[19:55:10] <Danimal_garage> :)
[19:55:56] <archivist> no, its just missing some damned coil end numbers
[19:56:19] <archivist> I think I have to get inside the thing
[19:56:54] <Danimal_garage> one of my old coworkers is working at a place that manufactures solar pannels
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[19:57:05] <archivist> far cheaper using a free 240 vfd than buying a 440 inverting from 240 vfd
[19:57:32] <Danimal_garage> he's trying to get me some work through them, maybe trade for some solar pannels :)
[19:57:41] <Danimal_garage> would be sweet for the van
[19:58:00] <archivist> I fancy some solar but far to expensive to buy
[19:58:18] <Danimal_garage> yea
[19:58:21] <Danimal_garage> same here
[19:58:35] <Danimal_garage> i'd like one for the van, for camping
[19:58:43] <Danimal_garage> maybe 120w or so
[19:59:15] <Danimal_garage> so i can run the radio and tv
[19:59:28] <archivist> I would like enough for average house load
[19:59:30] <Danimal_garage> without killing the batteries
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[19:59:53] <Danimal_garage> haha same here, but after seeing last month's electric bill, i don't have enough roof space
[20:01:36] <archivist> or I would settle for enough work that the electricity does not feel expensive
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[20:23:39] <Danimal_garage> am i the only one who thinks widescreen monitors suck?
[20:23:57] <Danimal_garage> seems like a waste of space
[20:24:22] <Danimal_garage> i'd rather have multiple 4:3 displays
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[20:28:59] <icekille-> hi
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[20:31:05] <anonimasu> Danimal_garage: for cad they sure suck, as the aspect ratio goes wrong..
[20:31:39] <Danimal_garage> they seem to suck for everything except movies maybe
[20:31:56] <Danimal_garage> but yea, i didn't like them for mastercam
[20:31:59] <PCW> Always thought the main purpose of widescreen was to sell you less screen area at the same price
[20:32:14] <IceKiller> i'mw ondering if anyone here knows at which file the actual commands are send to the LPT port
[20:32:16] <Danimal_garage> PCW: agreed
[20:32:22] <IceKiller> (source)
[20:33:03] <Danimal_garage> the hal file?
[20:33:49] <anonimasu> I have my motor mount drawn up, it ended up being a simple flat 10mm piece with a circle in the center :)
[20:33:56] <anonimasu> im using the orginal mount and adapting
[20:34:07] <anonimasu> too lazy to make a new one when the old one will fit
[20:35:05] <Danimal_garage> wanna make me some mounts for my servos?
[20:35:09] <PCW> hal_parport.c?
[20:35:18] <IceKiller> wow information overflow ;)
[20:35:53] <anonimasu> Danimal_garage: pay for materials and tooling and shipping :)
[20:36:05] <Danimal_garage> i need to make some mounts so i can use gear reduction
[20:36:10] <anonimasu> unless you need 5 of them.. :)
[20:36:26] <Danimal_garage> i can use 3!
[20:36:36] <Danimal_garage> i want some bigger servos actually
[20:36:48] <anonimasu> (im in north sweden)
[20:36:55] <IceKiller> hm let me reask does anyone know what is send when you do, lets say G01 X1.10 Y=2.10 ?
[20:37:05] <Danimal_garage> these are only 1.5kw
[20:37:24] <anonimasu> IceKiller: it sends out step and direction pulses via a realtime hal comp
[20:37:49] <IceKiller> ok but is it just putting lpt pin 6&7 high (if 6&7 are x motor)
[20:37:55] <cradek> IceKiller: that depends on how the system is configured.
[20:38:01] <IceKiller> for the amount of time needed for it to do the distance?
[20:38:09] <anonimasu> yes
[20:38:15] <cradek> IceKiller: at least 4 kinds of hardware can use the parallel port for communication
[20:38:16] <IceKiller> or is it doing x highs
[20:38:25] <anonimasu> along with different rates for acceleration and slowdown of axes
[20:38:32] <IceKiller> ah
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[20:38:42] <anonimasu> (I assume your just using a straight paralell port hooked up to your drives)
[20:38:43] <IceKiller> hm
[20:38:50] <IceKiller> yea
[20:38:54] <IceKiller> i'll tell you want i'm trying to do
[20:38:57] <IceKiller> i cnc PCB's
[20:38:58] <cradek> good idea
[20:39:13] <IceKiller> and i solder a wire to the pcb in question & a hook @ the bit
[20:39:37] <IceKiller> i want it to go down 0,10mm each "run" and check if the "trigger" is true
[20:39:58] <anonimasu> why not use the probing routine for that?
[20:40:13] <IceKiller> if i answer that i'll be doing blasphemy ;)
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[20:44:47] <anonimasu> IceKiller: however im looking to give you a doc for the probing to see if it can be used like you want
[20:45:08] <IceKiller> the software isn't for me its for an older person
[20:45:13] <IceKiller> who is having problems (cancer tc)
[20:45:29] <IceKiller> so he asked me if it was possible to automate it (that part atleast)
[20:45:43] <anonimasu> are you trying to probe tool lengths?
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[20:45:58] <IceKiller> no
[20:46:05] <cradek> explain what problem you are trying to solve?
[20:46:10] <IceKiller> i'm trying to find the Zero point for my Z
[20:47:15] <anonimasu> if you have a input that connects something from the workpiece and a sensor wire on the spindle, probing will work fine
[20:47:18] <IceKiller> i'm trying to get the tool to hit the PCB to complete a circuit (that will look/act like an emergency trigger or smthng), so i want it to go down little step at a time and check if the loop is complete if it is stop.
[20:47:55] <anonimasu> however i dont know if you can limit the probe length.
[20:47:58] * JT-Shop throws away the last paint roller and pops the top on a cold one... it's 5 o'clock at my mamma's house
[20:48:00] <cradek> you want probing
[20:48:06] <IceKiller> hm
[20:48:14] <IceKiller> so i can best just hook up that circuit with E-stop
[20:48:20] <IceKiller> so it will auto stop
[20:48:39] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: congrats!
[20:48:48] <anonimasu> if your only probing conductive stuff use the normal probing routine's
[20:48:48] <andypugh> E-stop might be a bit extreme. How about feed-hold?
[20:48:56] <Danimal_garage> i'm guessing only this coat is done and you have 3 more to go? lol
[20:48:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You couldhave hired the kid next door for $10
[20:49:00] <JT-Shop> IceKiller: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G38.2:-Straight-Probe
[20:49:09] <JT-Shop> Dan, thanks
[20:49:16] <Jymmm> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/calendar/allyears.html
[20:49:21] <anonimasu> IceKiller: you just link your probe input to the hal pin and it will work
[20:49:30] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: he would not come over, thought I was too scarey
[20:50:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Oh, I thought you got rid of the hanging dolls head collection you have strung across the driveway and sold the viking horn helmet?
[20:50:42] <JT-Shop> well I still have the dog skeletons...
[20:50:43] <syyl> Oo
[20:51:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, yeah. I guess some just dont appreciate such things
[20:52:15] <Danimal_garage> were they his dogs?
[20:52:21] <syyl> its kinda special ;)
[20:52:23] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:52:27] <Danimal_garage> and were they actually dead before you got ahold of them?
[20:52:42] <JT-Shop> well...
[20:52:55] <IceKiller> hm k thx JT-Shop & anonimasu i'll have a look :)
[20:53:03] <syyl> change topic? :D
[20:54:16] <Danimal_garage> cat skeletons?
[20:55:06] <JT-Shop> cats are too mean to die, if you kill one it only makes them mad
[20:55:16] <Danimal_garage> haha so true
[20:55:53] <andypugh> The first 8 times, at least.
[20:56:22] <Danimal_garage> mountain lions scare the crap out of me
[20:56:37] <Danimal_garage> luckily i haven't run across any
[20:56:41] <Danimal_garage> only bobcats
[20:56:57] <alex4nder> hey
[20:57:01] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: nothing a lil gunpowder cant resolve
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[20:57:21] <Danimal_garage> Jymmm: i'm not carrying a gun while mountain biking
[20:57:33] * JT-Shop goes to paint the 40' of baseboard left...
[20:57:44] <Danimal_garage> haha i knew you werent done painting
[20:57:51] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: Dude, Triathalon bicycling, shooting, and swimming!!!
[20:58:14] <Danimal_garage> you'll still be painting 3 weeks from now
[20:58:17] <Jymmm> or is that cross country skiing, shooting,,,
[20:58:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: pay the neighbor kid $50, I bet you wont be as scarry
[20:58:44] <JT-Shop> I'll be done in 20 minutes
[20:58:49] <Danimal_garage> i save my bullets for drive-bys in the bay area
[20:59:01] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: bit me!
[20:59:05] <Danimal_garage> lol
[20:59:36] <Jymmm> Danimal_garage: It's SoCal that has the drive by's, we only have schol shootings here
[20:59:53] <Danimal_garage> they start young, huh?
[21:00:08] <Danimal_garage> we do have our fair share of gang bangers here
[21:00:19] <Jymmm> Heh, I went to Jr High and some kid had a .38 special
[21:00:37] <Jymmm> gang thug
[21:01:00] <Danimal_garage> yea, someone in my school got busted when i was in 6th grade
[21:01:03] <Jymmm> I'm just glad he liked me =)
[21:01:39] <Danimal_garage> show and tell i guess lol
[21:02:37] <Danimal_garage> lunch time, bbl
[21:02:41] <Jymmm> Yeah, I guess. He was a crib and this was Long Beach, so I just let him do his thing
[21:02:58] <Danimal_garage> crip
[21:03:02] <Danimal_garage> not crib
[21:03:07] <Jymmm> whatever
[21:03:24] <Jymmm> just duck and cover
[21:03:33] <Jymmm> thats all I needed to know
[21:03:36] <andypugh> I thought that, and just assumed I was wrong.
[21:03:45] <Jymmm> It's not just for earthquakes anymore!
[21:04:13] <Jymmm> oh, and you never wore red or blue, ever!
[21:04:47] <andypugh> Anyone know how to print to stdio from Python?
[21:10:36] <JT-Shop> andypugh: run from a terminal
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[21:10:55] <andypugh> <quizzical look>
[21:11:29] <JT-Shop> your wanting to print something to the terminal window?
[21:11:57] <andypugh> Yes. From Axis
[21:12:16] <andypugh> I think I might have figured it out.
[21:12:21] <JT-Shop> ok
[21:12:58] <JT-Shop> as soon as I get my brush cleaned up and the paint put away I'm going back to look at it too
[21:13:09] <andypugh> No, I haven't.
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[21:19:56] <JT-Shop> print "Hello, World!"
[21:21:06] <andypugh> Unfortunately I want to print out something meaningful.
[21:21:27] <ds3> whittle it out with a mill instead
[21:21:29] <JT-Shop> a variable?
[21:22:20] <andypugh> I am trying to add more parameters to the "exceed machine max" report, specifically what it thinks machine max is, and what it thinks the program max is.
[21:25:06] <andypugh> if o.canon.max_extents_notool[i] > machine_limit_max[i]:
[21:25:06] <andypugh> warnings.append("Program exceeds machine maximum on axis %s: min %i actual %i"
[21:25:07] <andypugh> , "XYZABCUVW"[i], machine_limit_max[i], o.canon.max_extents_notool[i])
[21:25:26] <andypugh> Gives me "append takes exactly one argument, 4 given"
[21:25:50] <ds3> isn
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[21:26:01] <mhaberler> warnings is a list, you need to collapse addenda ito a single szring
[21:26:02] <ds3> t there something like sprintf to dump it to a variable first?
[21:26:05] <mhaberler> string
[21:26:13] <anonimasu> gah.
[21:26:19] <anonimasu> howcome nobody sells taper lock for at3 gears.
[21:26:32] <andypugh> at3?
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[21:27:52] <anonimasu> some profile of the belts
[21:27:53] <andypugh> Originally the message had a _(" but that gave me translation errors, so I removed it. The "XYZ"[i] was always there, and it wasn't complaining of two arguments then.
[21:28:45] <andypugh> anonimasu: These are nice, and fit any bore: http://www.fennerdrives.com/keyless_bushings/trantorque_gt.aspx
[21:29:10] <cradek> andypugh: "%s ... %i ..." % (..., ..., ...)
[21:29:13] <anonimasu> but im in sweden!
[21:29:35] <anonimasu> :/
[21:29:59] <andypugh> http://se.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&lastSearch=&autoc=false&storedtfgList=&searchTerm=trantorque&x=0&y=0
[21:30:14] <andypugh> Thanks cradek
[21:31:05] <anonimasu> they dont have for my motor shafts :S
[21:31:22] <andypugh> What size are the shafts?
[21:31:36] <anonimasu> 19mm
[21:33:48] <andypugh> They probably expect you to use 3/4"
[21:34:34] <JT-Shop> this is interesting "String formatting in Python uses the same syntax as the sprintf function in C"
[21:34:40] <anonimasu> that'll fit
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[21:35:10] <andypugh> I hope Krone are small though, those prices look frightening.
[21:35:24] <JT-Shop> logger[psha]: log
[21:37:01] * anonimasu orders
[21:37:15] <anonimasu> it's alot cheaper then messing up a motor shaft :)
[21:37:44] <anonimasu> i were thinking of making them press fit and making holes for a extraction puller
[21:37:52] <anonimasu> or whatever they are called
[21:38:44] <andypugh> anonimasu: Make sure that there is enough pulley for the bore though..
[21:39:29] <andypugh> They are very effective, they survived in out robot without any attention at all. I think every other team using the same motor had problems.
[21:39:33] <anonimasu> I can, their datasheet says 3/4" 15-19mm metric
[21:39:57] <andypugh> I mean the hole in the pulley.
[21:40:36] <andypugh> You need a 1.5" hole in the pulley for the 3/4" ID size
[21:40:42] <anonimasu> there should be, im more willing to buy bigger gears if I need to make it fit
[21:44:28] <anonimasu> tho it looks like i can only gear 1:2 if i want to use thoose..
[21:46:24] <anonimasu> -_-
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[21:48:01] <andypugh> I think there are slimmer variants
[21:50:06] <andypugh> For my servo motor pinion I have made my own taperlock. There is a taper bore in the pulley with the narrow end towards the motor, and a split, tapered sleev pulled into that bore and tight against the motor shaft by a drawbolt in the (convenient) threaded hole in the shaft end.
[21:50:22] <anonimasu> im thinking of just that
[21:50:25] <andypugh> But that was to get a 12 tooth T5 pulley on a 12mm shaft :-)
[21:50:30] <anonimasu> only issue is how to machine that without a cnc lathe
[21:50:42] <andypugh> I used a CNC lathe...
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[21:51:00] <anonimasu> (for me)
[21:51:03] <andypugh> But you can machine a taper easily on a manual lathe.
[21:51:32] <anonimasu> i'd rahter not make everything new :p
[21:51:43] <anonimasu> more money then time i guess
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[21:54:00] <anonimasu> screw it, im ordering the right gearing that will fit.
[21:54:34] <archivist> andypugh, specially with the proper taper turning attachment :)
[21:55:09] <andypugh> anonimasu: http://www.fennerdrives.com/catalogs/keyless_bushings.pdf
[21:55:20] <archivist> I did a ISO taper the other day on the southbend, seems perfect
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[21:55:26] <andypugh> They have variants that are 19x27mm
[21:55:48] <anonimasu> that would fi tme
[21:56:11] <anonimasu> but where can i order that in sweden ;)
[21:56:42] <andypugh> Or Trantorque mini inch is much like the one you saw, but 0.75" x 1.25"
[21:57:05] <anonimasu> but rs dosent have them
[21:58:56] <anonimasu> 1'll have 1mm left from the gear flange for a 19mm shaft and no spacing for a bushing with a 30tooth gear
[21:59:21] <andypugh> http://www.fenixtransmission.se/
[22:00:04] <anonimasu> nehow can you find stuff easier then i can
[22:00:09] <anonimasu> google finds me nothing
[22:00:24] <andypugh> My google-fu is strong.
[22:00:57] <Tom_itx> or lucky
[22:01:10] <anonimasu> i need bigger gears anyway
[22:01:19] <anonimasu> since there's no way to fit my gearing on my shafts
[22:01:38] <Tom_itx> will 2 7i47's reside on a 7i43 ok?
[22:02:01] <andypugh> If you are anywhere near Norrkoping: http://www.jens-s.se/
[22:02:08] <anonimasu> nope
[22:02:09] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes.
[22:02:16] <anonimasu> it's very very far away
[22:02:45] <Tom_itx> what would be another good daughter board for GPIO?
[22:02:47] <andypugh> Was the other one any better?
[22:02:55] <anonimasu> no
[22:02:56] <anonimasu> :)
[22:02:59] <Tom_itx> basically just want protection
[22:03:02] <anonimasu> i'll go with the rsonline stuff
[22:03:02] <andypugh> Tom_itx: 7i64?
[22:03:59] <Tom_itx> that plugs into the 7I43
[22:04:28] <andypugh> Indirectly..
[22:04:29] <Tom_itx> that looks like a good board though
[22:05:15] <anonimasu> andypugh: pcw talked about that before that there werent a whole lot of io cycles left with that running on the 7i43
[22:05:46] <Tom_itx> so you'd hook that into the 7i47 rs422..
[22:05:56] <andypugh> Possibly into a 7i44
[22:06:02] <Tom_itx> that seems like it would eat alot of time
[22:06:43] <andypugh> It does have nive high-voltage, high-current drivers and inputs though.
[22:06:44] <Tom_itx> basically i just want to use the other connector on the 7i43 but have it protected
[22:06:54] <Tom_itx> i have the 47 on one of em
[22:07:15] <anonimasu> there's a fpga protector board i think
[22:08:29] <Tom_itx> what time is it in italy?
[22:08:59] <anonimasu> 00:08 maybe one hour earlier
[22:09:06] <Tom_itx> ok
[22:09:09] <Tom_itx> thanks
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[22:19:28] <anonimasu> my x axis motor is too big -_-
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[22:20:25] <anonimasu> the gearing i want wont fit.
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[22:22:38] <andypugh> Can you use a T5 belt instead? http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/5M_Taperlock_Timing_Pulley-1806-c
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[22:24:43] <PCW> Tom_itx: Normally for simple field I/O a 7I37TA is appropriate (thoughto slow for step/dir etc)
[22:24:56] <anonimasu> not for the y axis..
[22:25:07] <anonimasu> basically the issue that im trying to gear to get more resolution
[22:25:19] <anonimasu> since I cant interpolate my encoder signals
[22:25:32] <anonimasu> not torque
[22:25:44] <PCW> If you just want some protection. a 7I42TA will do (just an input protector)
[22:26:44] <Tom_itx> is it just bridged thru resistors?
[22:27:07] <andypugh> anonimasu: And the encoder is built in to the motor?
[22:27:09] <Tom_itx> oh.. it has diode clamps too
[22:27:51] <anonimasu> andypugh: yes
[22:27:56] <Tom_itx> i may just put some resistors inline for now, all i really need it for is limit switches and the touch probe stuff
[22:28:01] <andypugh> Do you have a lathe?
[22:28:08] <anonimasu> yes
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[22:29:02] <anonimasu> I have only 4096 counts and 5mm/rev screws
[22:29:15] <andypugh> You should be able to bore a taper in the pulley using the compound slide, with the big side nearer the chuck. Then you can machine a tapered sleeve at the same compound side setting.
[22:29:34] <andypugh> Then it is bound to fit.
[22:30:18] <andypugh> I think I would be making the tapered sleeve with a flange for a circle of bolts, into tapped holes in the pulley.
[22:30:55] <andypugh> (Which is a modification of the Fenner B103 taper fitting)
[22:31:34] <andypugh> Ah, no, I misremebered the number
[22:32:30] <anonimasu> yeah, issue is that my gearing i want dosent have enough space
[22:33:31] <anonimasu> i get 0,001220703125mm/count with my encoders on the x axis
[22:33:41] <anonimasu> 1:1 gearing, and it's kindof big
[22:33:48] <andypugh> Really?
[22:34:10] <anonimasu> allowing for +/- 2-3 counts of error in motion
[22:34:36] <andypugh> I am happy if I hit +/- 0.1 :-)
[22:34:48] <anonimasu> replacing the screw isnt a option either as it's a dual ballnut screw
[22:35:08] <anonimasu> this lathe hit +/-0.01mm with the orginal stepper motors :)
[22:35:29] <andypugh> Look at the top of page 24 here: http://www.fennerdrives.com/catalogs/keyless_bushings.pdf and imagine that the blue part is the actual pulley.
[22:35:29] <anonimasu> and the orginal denford control..
[22:35:59] <anonimasu> PCW: do you have any idea on how i could solve this sin/cos decoding stuff?
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[22:36:23] <anonimasu> if I could get more resolution from the encoders it wouldnt matter much
[22:36:28] <andypugh> Analogue voltages?
[22:36:31] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:36:48] <anonimasu> right now i just square them for 4096 counts/rev
[22:37:02] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ResolverToQuadratureConverter
[22:37:12] <anonimasu> too slow
[22:37:13] <anonimasu> :)
[22:37:32] <anonimasu> I had some interpolator chips supposed to give me 32k counts/rev
[22:37:43] <andypugh> That will take you to 4194304 counts per rev..
[22:38:02] <anonimasu> but they are impossible to configure because the adapter from the manufacturer needed to set them up is nonexistant in the whole world
[22:38:22] <anonimasu> yep
[22:38:38] <anonimasu> 0.001mm per count seems kindof large dosent it :)
[22:38:56] <andypugh> You only need the huge resolution at low speeds, I think.
[22:39:24] <anonimasu> I can count with a arduino up to like 500rpm out of 3800
[22:39:37] <andypugh> And emc2 can't use more than 1kHz update rate
[22:39:57] <anonimasu> but the mesa board can count up to 10
[22:39:59] <anonimasu> mhz
[22:40:11] <andypugh> The Mesa Resolver board, you mean?
[22:40:21] <anonimasu> no, the mesa 5i23
[22:40:29] <andypugh> I would use both.
[22:40:38] <PCW> For a torque mode drive you may well want more than 1KHz thread rate
[22:40:45] <anonimasu> because, these arent resolvers
[22:40:51] <andypugh> No, good point.
[22:41:08] <PCW> they are dc excited resolvers
[22:41:11] <andypugh> The Arduino could be used to give you an offset to the Mesa counts.
[22:41:51] <andypugh> PID input is encoder-position + (Arduino-position)/4096
[22:41:59] <anonimasu> also, they are absolute encoders
[22:42:21] <anonimasu> so I dont want to scrap them or hack to get another connected
[22:42:45] <andypugh> How do they output the absolute position
[22:42:53] <anonimasu> through rs485
[22:43:18] <andypugh> What resolution is the RS485?
[22:43:31] <andypugh> Does the Mesa Card UART module help at all?
[22:43:33] <anonimasu> 32768 counts/rev
[22:43:45] <andypugh> I have a realtime HAL UART driver...
[22:44:10] <anonimasu> maybe that could be used to comp position..
[22:44:45] <anonimasu> but still the theoretical limit of positioning accuracy would be between a few counts of the encoder
[22:44:50] <PCW> what baud rate?
[22:44:54] <andypugh> You already have a userspace module? Should be relatively easy to make that work with my realtime hal driver.
[22:45:04] <anonimasu> yes
[22:45:28] <andypugh> baud rate?
[22:45:36] <anonimasu> one sec
[22:45:42] <andypugh> That sounds slow :-)
[22:45:52] <PCW> for the absolute data
[22:45:55] <andypugh> I think men with flags bat one bit per sec :-)
[22:46:09] <anonimasu> 38400 is the max
[22:46:37] <andypugh> 16 bits?
[22:47:01] <andypugh> 2kHz-ish.
[22:47:12] <anonimasu> 12 bits
[22:47:43] <PCW> um 32678 cant be represented by 12 normal bits
[22:48:01] <andypugh> Just what I was thinking.
[22:48:04] <anonimasu> no, it's a 16 bit value
[22:48:24] <anonimasu> and the read time is 55/baud rate
[22:48:48] <PCW> 600 Hz ish
[22:49:08] <PCW> not made for control
[22:49:11] <anonimasu> + 4 bytes of position data
[22:49:23] <anonimasu> so 7 bytes for the reply
[22:49:32] <anonimasu> and 3 for transmit
[22:49:36] <andypugh> P on the quadrature, I on the serial?
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[22:49:48] <anonimasu> huh?
[22:50:25] <anonimasu> tho I can read _count_
[22:50:37] <PCW> possibly (P/D on quad)
[22:50:38] <anonimasu> in 5 ms
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[22:51:39] <PCW> Probably best to interpolate Even 4-8X would help
[22:52:01] <andypugh> Yeah, isn't position-interpolated any help here
[22:52:14] <anonimasu> perferably i'd like to have something like 0.0001 between counts
[22:52:58] <PCW> so what woul that be in max quadrature count rate
[22:53:03] <PCW> ?
[22:53:10] <andypugh> So, perhaps sum two PID controllers, one with zero I-gain looking at position-intepolated of the quadrature signal, and one with _only_ I-gain looking at the serial data.
[22:53:28] <anonimasu> 16384counts in quadrature
[22:53:39] <anonimasu> at 3800rpm
[22:54:00] <anonimasu> 62mhz :D
[22:54:07] <JT-Shop> it is frikkin bright in here with all the lights on :) great for old tired eyes
[22:54:21] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:54:32] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, have you moved machines yet?
[22:54:35] <PCW> 16384 is only 4X what you have now (62 M/minute)
[22:54:43] <JT-Shop> just this computer and my desk
[22:54:54] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:54:57] <anonimasu> 4.2mhz
[22:55:00] <anonimasu> 6.2
[22:55:10] <PCW> 1 MHz
[22:55:11] <andypugh> I think my Arduino code can capture and convert in 17uS. (at 8 bits) which is 58kHz
[22:55:34] <anonimasu> my arduino code can barely keep up for squaring the pulses fast enough
[22:55:35] <JT-Shop> I have the outlets on the west wall to do then start organizing a bit then the plasma is next
[22:55:49] <PCW> so about 16X faster than an arduino for 4X
[22:56:01] <anonimasu> yeah sounds like a dspic
[22:56:30] <andypugh> Yeah, the arduino will miss whole cycles
[22:56:38] <anonimasu> 100khz is the max encoder rate
[22:56:46] <anonimasu> of the sin/cos periods
[22:57:03] <PCW> I thing a DSPIC would be limited to 4-8X just not enough instructions between edges
[22:57:15] <anonimasu> 4x would be very good
[22:57:17] <andypugh> It's non-trivial to accurately measure voltages at that sort of rate.
[22:57:55] <anonimasu> 4x would give me 16384 counts to emc per rev
[22:57:55] <andypugh> anonimasu: So, have you considerd 4:1 gearing :-)
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[22:58:15] <anonimasu> andypugh: I did, but the gears are too small for my motor shaft
[22:58:23] <anonimasu> and the drive gear has a size limit of 60mm dia
[22:58:53] <PCW> Yep need to oversample and you need a DPLL on the position to guarantee that noise doesnt cause position loss
[22:59:03] <andypugh> A 15mm gear on a 19mm shaft is likely to be tricky, it's true
[22:59:22] <PCW> Hobb in into the shaft
[22:59:32] <anonimasu> haha :D
[22:59:33] <andypugh> Aye, that is what I was wondering.
[22:59:39] <andypugh> What sort of motor is it?
[22:59:50] <anonimasu> allen bradley mpl b420-mk22aa
[23:00:05] <anonimasu> 1.9kw servo
[23:00:39] <anonimasu> with 1:1 gearing they should be able to push the machine up to 19m/min
[23:00:49] <andypugh> Bolt it to the lathe bed, turn it on. Soon the shaft is smaller.
[23:01:15] <anonimasu> im more worried about the +/- 5-10 counts when positioning
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[23:01:38] <anonimasu> because if I want to turn something at ~0.01mm that will eat my +/- up
[23:02:20] <anonimasu> I have a set of chinese linear scales on a box, that would fit, atleast for the x axis..
[23:02:31] <anonimasu> emergency option.
[23:03:04] <andypugh> If you are adding a secondary feedback mechanism then it might as well be the serial/absolute data.
[23:03:15] <andypugh> (As already discussed)
[23:03:44] <anonimasu> yeah but that wont comp for backslash
[23:04:03] <andypugh> 600Hz is probably OK for a stationary axis. (and it is very unusual to care about diameter to 0.01mm on a non-parallel shaft section.
[23:05:12] <andypugh> I think that last part is an important point. You shouldn't have +/-10 counts dither when the axis is staionary.
[23:05:41] <andypugh> (and when it is, 600Hz update rate is fine)
[23:06:13] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: unfortunately the mill and the lathe share the same phase converter located inside of the lathe, so provisions must be made to provide power to the mill while the lathe is in motion
[23:06:31] <anonimasu> andypugh: and for turning tapers ;)
[23:06:48] * anonimasu just whines
[23:06:55] <JT-Shop> I have another (hopefully better) 15hp motor for another phase converter
[23:07:25] <Tom_itx> the electronics behave ok with the phase converter?
[23:07:39] <Tom_itx> we had some cnc's that didn't like it very much
[23:07:41] <Danimal_garage> i <3 vfd's
[23:07:50] <anonimasu> just trying to figure out how to get the most resolution since the screws are coarse so I'll have the means to tune the machine even tighter then +/- 5 counts in motino
[23:07:54] <anonimasu> motion
[23:07:55] <andypugh> Where's axis.py in an installed setup?
[23:08:17] <Danimal_garage> however vfd's aren't very usefull if you need to power 3 phase servo amps
[23:08:37] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yea, I just make sure the computer part is not on the generated leg and no problems
[23:09:37] <anonimasu> (I have no clue how many counts to expect)
[23:09:46] <JT-Shop> on my BP with Anilam CNC conversion on it I have a vfd for the spindle and plug the rest into the wall outlet
[23:10:11] <anonimasu> PCW: could you use the resolver interface for this?
[23:11:27] <Danimal_garage> thats how my machines are John
[23:11:38] <anonimasu> mhm, the interpolator chips of mine does spi.
[23:12:15] <JT-Shop> my lathe and mill want 3ph for the drives so the phase converter supplies that for them
[23:12:27] <andypugh> anonimasu: The Analog Devices resolver interfaces only go to 3125 rps.
[23:12:34] <Danimal_garage> main reason i haven't looked for a vmc yet
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[23:12:52] <Danimal_garage> i don't want a rpc
[23:13:03] <andypugh> anonimasu: Interpolator chip?
[23:13:03] <Danimal_garage> i have one, but i only use it for the surface grinder
[23:13:15] <Danimal_garage> since that's barely ever used
[23:13:38] <anonimasu> andypugh: ic-haus makes interpolator chips for this(the ones I have on my desk but cant use because they are inconfigurable
[23:14:05] <andypugh> How inconfigurable?
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[23:14:32] <anonimasu> they cant conjure a adapter to set them up(that was supposed to be included with the devel boars)
[23:14:35] <anonimasu> boards
[23:15:22] <anonimasu> https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/shIC-Haus_AD-Wandler_IC-NQ_EN.pdf
[23:15:59] <anonimasu> https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/sjIC-Haus_AD-Wandler_IC-NQ_EN.pdf
[23:15:59] <andypugh> Does it actually work at all at the moment?
[23:16:11] <anonimasu> yes im squaring the sin/cos
[23:16:23] <anonimasu> but the chip dosent do anything at all except for error
[23:17:25] <anonimasu> it kindof converts sin/cos to pulses but i get a error led lit that I dont know what it means
[23:17:57] <andypugh> THat isn't the only datasheet, surely?
[23:18:17] <anonimasu> the last one is that only
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[23:19:33] <anonimasu> it's a different fromt he first url, with more data
[23:19:51] <anonimasu> i beleive it's some calibration shit I need to do to get it working
[23:20:23] <anonimasu> and offset
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[23:21:36] <PCW> anonimasu no the resolver interface would not work, too slow (22 Usec for 6 Axis) and expecs only 5 or 10 KHz max carrier
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[23:22:30] <andypugh> Well, EMC2 can be persuaded to do SPI, but that looks like a lot of work to figure out.
[23:22:55] <PCW> the diference is a resolver goes thrrough only one (or a couple) cycles per rev, your encoder goes through 1024
[23:23:26] <PCW> much faster tracking is needed
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[23:25:00] <anonimasu> damn complex.
[23:25:05] <PCW> the resolver interpolates finer (and needs to) but is ~1000 times slower
[23:25:18] <anonimasu> if I could gear it down 5:1 it'd be fine.
[23:27:20] <anonimasu> anyway, bedtime..
[23:27:22] <PCW> is the input scalingto your interpolator approximately correct
[23:27:27] <andypugh> anonimasu: http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/spra496/spra496.pdf
[23:27:37] <anonimasu> that's the part I cant know
[23:27:49] <anonimasu> I thik it needs offset to be set up to work
[23:28:39] <PCW> ? maybe you could work around its setup with an analog front end
[23:29:00] <anonimasu> yeah, but the problem is that I have no means of knowing the default settings
[23:29:02] <PCW> setup issues. It must have some kind of defaults
[23:29:49] <PCW> not very friendly... how do they expect you to use the chips?
[23:30:10] <anonimasu> they were supposed to supply a adapter with the boards, but they failed twice
[23:33:33] <anonimasu> im looking at cortex m3 devel boards, if that would be a option
[23:35:10] <JT-Shop> 92 lumens per sq ft is brighter than I though it might be
[23:35:33] <andypugh> anonimasu: How fast can they sample an analogue voltage?
[23:36:02] <anonimasu> that's what im looking for now
[23:37:25] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: the light i use for mountain biking is 1400 lumens
[23:37:45] <Danimal_garage> however i don't know what that equates to per square foot
[23:37:55] <JT-Shop> I have a total of 88,320 lumens in the shop
[23:38:00] <PCW> DSPIC can do 2 MS/sec
[23:38:01] <Danimal_garage> damn!
[23:38:11] <Danimal_garage> you win! lol
[23:38:40] <Danimal_garage> how many lumens are those lights?
[23:38:42] <JT-Shop> it's freeking bright with them all on...
[23:38:45] <Danimal_garage> each
[23:38:46] <anonimasu> 1mhz
[23:39:15] <JT-Shop> 2750 per bulb
[23:39:50] <JT-Shop> opps 88,000 lumens
[23:40:07] <Danimal_garage> 4' bulbs?
[23:40:25] <JT-Shop> 4' T8 bulbs, 2 per fixture
[23:40:27] <anonimasu> PCW: but nobody makes arduino-dsp's :D
[23:40:36] <JT-Shop> $20 for a fixture and two bulbs
[23:41:08] <Danimal_garage> so i have 44000 lumens in about 500 square feet
[23:41:16] <PCW> TO get this to work thes not much hope of using any thing higher level than an assembler
[23:41:28] <JT-Shop> only use 64 watts per fixture
[23:42:03] <JT-Shop> Danimal_garage: you have T8 6500K bulbs?
[23:42:05] <Danimal_garage> i think i have the same lights
[23:42:24] <Danimal_garage> i believe so, i know at least one is
[23:42:31] <Danimal_garage> and i think they're all the same
[23:42:32] <anonimasu> PCW: tho, the cpu is at 70mhz.. so probably there whould be enough time for that to happen between adc cycles
[23:42:48] <fenn> fenner drives eh?
[23:42:52] <fenn> hmph.
[23:42:53] <Danimal_garage> it's definitely bright in here
[23:43:07] <JT-Shop> your about the same as me then
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[23:43:13] <Danimal_garage> i got 8 twin bulb 4 foot fixtures
[23:43:16] <fenn> put on some sunglasses 8)
[23:43:16] <anonimasu> it looks like this will be a long journey before it's done.
[23:43:19] <anonimasu> :)
[23:43:26] <JT-Shop> my girlfriend is whining now...
[23:43:43] * JT-Shop goes for a jaunt in the woods
[23:43:59] <Tom_itx> :O
[23:44:12] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: it's nice until you cast a shadow over whatever you're working on and your eyes cant adjust lol
[23:44:18] <PCW> so 1mhz is 5x oversampling (since you need to mux between sine/cos)
[23:44:20] <PCW> Also need to check if the A-D does simultaneous sampling
[23:44:26] <Danimal_garage> because the rest of the shop is so bright
[23:44:53] <Danimal_garage> I had to move some of the lights into specific areas
[23:44:54] <anonimasu> it does
[23:45:51] <anonimasu> anyway bedtime for today
[23:45:55] <fenn> hmm maybe some of you would appreciate this , makefile for eagle to generate gerbers: http://bardagjy.com/?p=524
[23:46:05] <PCW> 'Nite
[23:47:23] <Danimal_garage> JT-Shop: the white walls make almost more of a difference than the lights
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