#emc | Logs for 2011-07-27

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[00:04:40] <IG-garage> "just too slow" slow as my former boss on bicycle, hah
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[00:12:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> hey guys i wanna level my bed (well a top plate i put on the bed) but I only have a fish tail cutter...anybody leveled with that instead of flat top?
[00:13:08] <andypugh> Not entirely sure what you mean.
[00:13:59] <l0st1nsp4c3> gimme a sec
[00:14:12] <l0st1nsp4c3> i'll try to reformulate my sentence in a more coherent manner
[00:14:18] <l0st1nsp4c3> right after the break!
[00:17:59] <l0st1nsp4c3> nvm found me a straight bit
[00:18:17] <l0st1nsp4c3> i think
[00:19:21] <l0st1nsp4c3> yup double flute straight bit
[00:19:40] <l0st1nsp4c3> ok so that kinda nulls and voids previous question
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[00:26:17] <l0st1nsp4c3> any good bed leveling g-code maker
[00:26:35] <l0st1nsp4c3> i'm looking at clanzers right now
[00:27:23] <jthornton> andypugh: you see this? http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.b.d.willis/bonelle_tcg.htm
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[00:29:24] <andypugh> It's very nice, but I hate to think how many lifetimes the payback is..
[00:29:34] <jthornton_> logger[psha]: log
[00:29:58] <jthornton> yes, it would only be for a fun project
[00:30:16] <jthornton> rather make a steam engine I think
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[00:30:49] <l0st1nsp4c3> hum i cannot fully level my bed since cutting area is smaller then bed any tips/tricks to this?
[00:31:17] <andypugh> How big are the borders?
[00:31:32] <andypugh> Can you reach all the way with a flycutter?
[00:32:05] <l0st1nsp4c3> eugh 1 1/4 and 2 1/2
[00:33:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> and unfortunetly i'm a newb so I haveno flycutter anyways
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[00:39:02] <l0st1nsp4c3> plus my bosch colt doesn't have a superpid so it would be running that fly cutter in the 16 000rpms
[00:39:23] <l0st1nsp4c3> that's kinda too scary for me lol
[00:44:06] <andypugh> What sort of machine is it?
[00:45:05] <andypugh> I would suggest putting a dial indicator in the chuck and seeing how much out of-of-true the table is. It might not need any attention.
[00:45:15] <l0st1nsp4c3> it's home made
[00:45:20] <l0st1nsp4c3> and it's outta true lol
[00:45:59] <l0st1nsp4c3> bed being plywood and it was from the middle of the sheet = it has a nice bend to it in the middle
[00:46:03] <l0st1nsp4c3> kinda like a camel hump
[00:47:52] <andypugh> You could flatten what you can reach, then finish of the border with hand-tools to be sub-flush. It isn't like you will be machining anything mounted on those sections of the table, if the cutter won't reach.
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[00:53:55] <l0st1nsp4c3> that's what i was contemplating
[00:54:00] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh what machine do you use?
[00:54:39] <andypugh> I don't really. I have been converting a mill for a bit over a year, but keep getting distracted by software.
[00:54:58] <l0st1nsp4c3> i'd love to have a real mill
[00:55:05] <l0st1nsp4c3> but hard to find a good cheap one
[00:56:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> i build my wannabe cnc out 3/4 plywood some thompson linear bearings and a bosch colt gecko 540 and some 387oz 1.8degree stepper
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[00:58:46] <l0st1nsp4c3> gecko g540 sorry typo
[00:59:40] <andypugh> Send the plywood to a foundry as a pattern, and you have a cast-iron machine..
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[01:00:08] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[01:00:22] <l0st1nsp4c3> once i get to machine some real stuff learn some cad and cam
[01:00:31] <l0st1nsp4c3> then I play on making one out of 8020 alum
[01:00:44] <l0st1nsp4c3> or maybe something else I dunno
[01:00:54] <l0st1nsp4c3> but I didn't feel like dishing out $$$ on something I didn't understand
[01:01:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> and by building one I've learned alot...alot of things i wouldn't do the same way now
[01:02:00] <l0st1nsp4c3> well i lied there is a back piece made from oak lol
[01:02:32] <l0st1nsp4c3> if i'm leveling the bed with a 1/8 bit what should i use as stepover?
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[01:19:01] <danimal_garage> maybe 30%?
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[01:31:27] <l0st1nsp4c3> hum
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[01:33:38] <elmo40> ho-hum
[01:33:45] <l0st1nsp4c3> indeed
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[02:24:44] <KimK> skunkworks, skunkworks_, are you around?
[02:26:23] <IG-garage> he was here couple of hours ago, he maybe sleeps right now
[02:31:10] <KimK> IG-garage: Ah, OK, thanks. I'll try him again some other time then.
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[02:44:30] <skunkworks> for a little bit
[02:45:05] <KimK> skunkworks: Hi Sam, I didn't expect you back.
[02:45:22] <skunkworks> brushing teeth :)
[02:47:36] <KimK> I have an opportunity to make a spindle encoder, and I wondered what you thought of the various ways available that I might do this. Is there a relatively high-res way to do it magnetically? I'd rather work with alum, since there's a lot of it here, but I could get steel. Optically I think I could get 100 or 200 lines, so 400 or 800 counts, maybe? What could I do non-optically?
[02:50:18] <Tom_itx> magnetic ain't gonna be aluminum
[02:50:23] <Tom_itx> nor is hall effect
[02:51:31] <KimK> I think I'm talking a split collar of about 75mm ID and about 104mm OD. Height maybe 0.75 in to 1.25 in, dealer's choice.
[02:51:39] <l0st1nsp4c3> i wouldn't go anywhere near hall effect for precision
[02:52:08] <l0st1nsp4c3> magnetic fields are not the most precise things in the world
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[02:52:34] <KimK> I was hoping that Sam had some high-res magnetic suggestions for me? He's done some of this, I think.
[02:52:48] <l0st1nsp4c3> i would go optical
[02:53:08] <Tom_itx> hall or optical interrupter probably
[02:53:11] <l0st1nsp4c3> a cheap laser led mouse has an optical scanner usualy able to spew out 800dpi or more very fast
[02:53:44] <Tom_itx> optical is more subject to contamination
[02:54:07] <l0st1nsp4c3> true
[02:54:12] <L84Supper> on which surface would you be able to print lines? the 75mm ID or the 104mm OD?
[02:54:21] <Tom_itx> hall sensors are used on flywheel and wheel encoders on automobiles
[02:54:24] <l0st1nsp4c3> but cheaper to build and more readily available
[02:54:43] <l0st1nsp4c3> yes abs sensors are hall effects
[02:54:49] <l0st1nsp4c3> but they are not precision based
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[02:56:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> unless you are using like the head of a hard drive or something crazy expensive
[02:56:06] <KimK> Yes, the contamination is what I was thinking of, although I could also live with optical, it's not too bad where it is.
[02:58:34] <l0st1nsp4c3> cheap and inexpensive i think is optical
[02:58:46] <l0st1nsp4c3> but that's also the down side it will be cheap
[02:59:44] <l0st1nsp4c3> as for magnetic way you will need to have a very sensitive hall effect sensor and some very thin lines and some electronics to magnifie pulses so they can be read correctly
[03:00:51] <L84Supper> you could print your own optical strip and get ~3K counts at 75mm dia
[03:01:56] <l0st1nsp4c3> yup
[03:02:43] <KimK> What would be your detector in this system, and what is the strip like (material, etc.)?
[03:04:33] <l0st1nsp4c3> you could make a laser with a photodiode
[03:04:45] <l0st1nsp4c3> you could use a laser led mouse optics
[03:09:32] <fenn> aroo
[03:09:47] <fenn> put a bunch of ball bearings in a tube and do LVDS!
[03:10:28] <fenn> skunkworks' machine uses a bunch of pins all stacked up as the LVDS elements
[03:10:34] <fenn> but it sounds like a pain to manufacture
[03:10:35] <L84Supper> current Lexmark inkjets use a 600 dpi black cartridge, it's easy to generate a bitmap with alternating black lines and white spaces 1/600in. ea
[03:10:55] <fenn> L84Supper: magnetic gets arbitrary (analog) resolution
[03:11:11] <fenn> but optical is convenient
[03:11:14] * fenn shrugs
[03:11:31] <L84Supper> print on photopaper, coat with acrylic, use a mouse sensor
[03:11:32] <l0st1nsp4c3> magnetic = alot of tinkering for someone who doesn't know how to
[03:11:35] <l0st1nsp4c3> and alot of expensive stuff
[03:12:05] <l0st1nsp4c3> L84Supper or on projector transparency and use a laser and a photo diode
[03:12:26] <l0st1nsp4c3> mind you i prefere the paper and mouse optics
[03:13:01] <L84Supper> or inkjet transparency + coat with clear acrylic
[03:13:03] <KimK> Any kind of paper or film I don't think would do to well in this location. I'm already a little worried about optical slots.
[03:13:20] <L84Supper> what's the problem with film?
[03:13:40] <KimK> It would be attacked by oil, eventually.
[03:13:44] <l0st1nsp4c3> kimk what's your budget
[03:13:55] <l0st1nsp4c3> maybe you're better of buying premade optical linear encoders
[03:14:00] <L84Supper> nah, coat with acrylic
[03:14:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> or magnetic linear encoders if you want
[03:14:33] <L84Supper> you can buy an inkjet encoder strip for ~$10
[03:14:46] <l0st1nsp4c3> will it be long enought for what he needs
[03:14:49] <l0st1nsp4c3> that's the question
[03:15:06] <L84Supper> inkjet printers have them up to a few meters wide/long
[03:15:55] <L84Supper> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-Designjet-CP-Series-Encoder-Strip-c4704-60224-/180393619960?pt=COMP_Printers&hash=item2a004c31f8 for example
[03:17:00] <L84Supper> I would coat it in polyester resin, it will hold up to any cutting oils
[03:17:53] <KimK> How do I get the ends to match up?
[03:18:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol that's for a plotter but ok
[03:18:37] <l0st1nsp4c3> i had desktop printer in my mind
[03:26:38] <KimK> I can do optical, maybe something like this, but I wondered what else I could do? http://imagebin.org/165065
[03:27:57] <L84Supper> check out the optical mouse hacks
[03:28:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> KimK: what's that cad software?
[03:28:21] <l0st1nsp4c3> alot of them use the scroll button for those things
[03:28:30] <l0st1nsp4c3> mind you the mouse into a scanner was pretty nifty
[03:28:58] <KimK> LibreCAD, the new Qt4 fork of Qcad. Free and Open. And soon to be in major distros near you!
[03:29:08] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[03:29:12] <l0st1nsp4c3> like libre office i guess
[03:29:26] <l0st1nsp4c3> except this has nothing todo with sun being bought by oracle
[03:29:37] <l0st1nsp4c3> just a normal run of the mill QT issues i guess lol
[03:29:44] <L84Supper> you could also wrap the spindle with a magnetic tape and use a tape head or hard disc head
[03:30:18] <l0st1nsp4c3> L84Supper: i already talked about hard disc heads
[03:30:24] <l0st1nsp4c3> but
[03:30:30] <l0st1nsp4c3> wrapping something magnetic on a spindle
[03:30:44] <l0st1nsp4c3> unless it's air driven....you will pickup magnetic field from a electric spindle
[03:30:58] <KimK> Well, some people felt that Ribbonsoft was dragging their feet on improvements to Qcad Free, in order to promote the sales of Qcad Pro. And that's fine, if that's their business model. But someone got tired of it, and since it was GPL'd...
[03:30:59] <L84Supper> you expect me to read every comment? I'd be here all week!
[03:31:21] <l0st1nsp4c3> L84Supper yes yes and yes
[03:31:27] <l0st1nsp4c3> just kidding =)
[03:32:00] <L84Supper> thats why you record with a bias frequency to the tape
[03:32:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> ac or dc...and in any case
[03:33:04] <l0st1nsp4c3> how do you protect the tape from errant magnetic field degredation
[03:33:25] <L84Supper> good design
[03:33:49] <l0st1nsp4c3> well you'll need some sorta shielding
[03:35:13] <L84Supper> if you mounted a small slave or monkey inside the spindle to keep it clean ..... it might help
[03:35:33] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[03:35:52] <KimK> http://librecad.org/cms/home.html I plan to make a PPA for 10.04 when I have time. There's an existing one, but it's borked. So eventually 10.04/EMC2 fans won't have to build, they can just click in Synaptic or use apt-get.
[03:36:38] <l0st1nsp4c3> ah but compiling is so fun
[03:36:59] <l0st1nsp4c3> that's why i love slackware all the missing dependencies and mishmashing funfun
[03:39:51] <L84Supper> http://www.ikonics.com/ikonics_iis/dtxjet think it's worth $250K?
[03:40:42] <l0st1nsp4c3> sure looks like it
[03:41:54] <L84Supper> whats the gantry worth?
[03:42:12] <l0st1nsp4c3> i'm guessing 75k
[03:42:42] <KimK> Out of my price range. I can only afford the Candyfab: http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/candyfab
[03:42:50] <L84Supper> 36" x 48" +/- 5 micron repeatability accuracy a bit better than that
[03:43:31] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[03:43:37] <l0st1nsp4c3> i remember the candyfab
[03:43:47] <L84Supper> plywood rails
[03:44:19] <l0st1nsp4c3> thats what i got
[03:44:21] <l0st1nsp4c3> =P
[03:44:38] <KimK> And I don't even have one of those!
[03:44:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> plywood rail =P
[03:45:36] <L84Supper> I don't know how they get $250K for this http://www.dimatix.com/divisions/materials-deposition-division/materials-printer-dmp-5005.asp
[03:46:05] <KimK> Well, it looks like skunkworks has gone to bed, I'll chat with him tomorrow. Thanks for your input too, guys.
[03:46:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> rich ppl dont care how much they spend
[03:46:19] <l0st1nsp4c3> u just gotta have the only solution and u can charge whatever u want
[03:47:04] <L84Supper> not true in this case however
[03:47:15] <L84Supper> many sources
[03:48:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> pirce fixing?
[03:48:30] <l0st1nsp4c3> all in same price range>?
[03:49:18] <L84Supper> heh.... the inkjet world is all about price fixing
[03:49:19] <l0st1nsp4c3> ala lcd or ram style
[03:49:44] <l0st1nsp4c3> inkjet ink = more costly then gold per weight lol
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[04:20:39] <L84Supper> http://www.amazon.com/Wheelmate-Laptop-Steering-Wheel-Desk/product-reviews/B000IZGIA8/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_summary?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
[04:20:47] <L84Supper> read the reviews!
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[06:02:03] <Jymmm> What version of EMC came with Ubuntu 8.x?
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[06:09:57] <psha[work]> 2.3?
[06:11:07] <Jymmm> and the current release version of emc?
[06:11:55] <Jymmm> well, that doens't matter much actually.
[06:12:06] <Jymmm> I just need to find the latency test =)
[06:17:04] <psha[work]> 2.4.6
[06:18:43] <Jymmm> max jitter... 220K
[06:18:48] <Jymmm> oh well
[06:19:53] <Jymmm> I guess I won't be using this box for EMC =)
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[07:11:24] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[10:08:00] <psha[work]> jthornton: around?
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[10:32:33] <jthornton> psha[work]: I am now
[10:38:33] <psha[work]> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,48/id,11873/lang,english/
[10:38:49] <psha[work]> do you think that this thread belongs to HAL Components subforum?
[10:39:56] <jthornton> yes
[10:40:25] <psha[work]> moved
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[11:13:21] * anonimasu yawns
[11:13:23] <anonimasu> parts parts parts
[11:13:51] <anonimasu> psha[work]: btw the tool i made yesterday is mutilated... kindof :p
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[11:27:46] <Loetmichel> ssoo, now the leatherman cant get lost... (i have to get some smaller engraving tools, though) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12183
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[11:57:34] <L84Supper> http://www.austriamicrosystems.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Linear-Encoders/NSE-5310 why 0.488 micron rez and not 5?
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[12:17:49] <scanf> hi, for a db25 parport cable for emc on a simple xyz step/dir + estop config, is it okay if ive tied pins 21-25 together and grounded them?
[12:19:11] <archivist> L84Supper, binary bits from 2mm magnet spacing, its interpolated I think
[12:20:51] <archivist> although later it says 1mm
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[13:46:17] <skunkworks> KimK: sorry - I got side tracked
[13:48:35] <skunkworks> I have not tried these - but I have them on hand.. JonE is using them on his bridgeport for rigid tapping
[13:49:36] <skunkworks> KimK: http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
[13:49:47] <skunkworks> You would need a steel gear.
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[14:38:36] <skunkworks> KimK: I was seriously thinking about doing that on the k&t spindle - but the gear on the spindle didn't have enough teeth
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[15:26:57] <IG-garage> "bull gear" = driving or driving gear?
[15:27:14] <IG-garage> *or driven
[15:33:11] <Connor> Hey guys, I'm putting together a list of tooling from Shaars.com.. someone care to look it over? I need to add a set of V-blocks and end mills to it (need help deciding what size v-blocks and which end mills)
[15:33:51] <Connor> here is the list thus far, 202-1022, 202-8004, 202-8015, 404-7146, 303-7201
[15:34:24] <IG-garage> most of mentors are sleeping
[15:34:28] <Connor> 5x4x1-1/2" Vise, 3/4" shank for the 3" Boring head, with a set of boring bars, and 18" stell parallels set.
[15:34:48] <Connor> Bah, it's almost noon! :)
[15:34:55] <IG-garage> they all sleep right now, try about 6-8 hours later
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[15:35:51] <IG-garage> so they're probably having *relationships* with their female bosses at the moment
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[16:01:38] <KimK> skunkworks, skunkworks_: Thanks, I appreciate the info. No ready-made gear in this case, though. I'll think about it a bit more first.
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[16:06:21] <newbynobi> Hallo @all: I am building a glade surface and I am using button with an image. Is there a posibility to stretch or shring the images automaticly to fit the given button size?
[16:07:09] <pcw_home> how many teeth on the gear? A spindle may not need a very hi-res encoder as its acceleration is normally limited
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[16:14:59] <pcw_home> If drive and load accelerations are limited the velocity estimate/position interpolation should be pretty good
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[16:17:53] <anonimasu> pcw_home: looks like im stalled in wait for adapter for the sincos decoder chips
[16:18:12] <anonimasu> pcw_home: got any remote idea how to solve that in a different way?
[16:24:44] <pcw_home> Adapter?
[16:28:23] <anonimasu> the sincos chips by iq-nc
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[16:37:59] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:38:58] * Loetmichel is just eating a selfgrown cucumber... we must have made something wrong, on the seedpackage was written: "Mini-cornichons" ... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12186
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[16:42:38] <anonimasu> pcw_home: they need a biss adapter to be configurable
[16:42:49] <anonimasu> pcw_home: and without it i cant check what error message they give for my signal
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[16:48:26] <IG-garage> why the hell have you peeled it, Loetmichel
[16:50:20] <Loetmichel> 'cause the one side had scars (from the balcony railing) which are hard and not so good in taste
[16:50:40] <Loetmichel> other side was still with green ;-)
[16:53:37] <IG-garage> ok then
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[16:54:41] <anonimasu> im looking at some people using oscillating toolpaths for laths's
[16:54:45] <anonimasu> to break chips
[16:54:58] <anonimasu> tho, it's a shitty hack
[16:55:07] <Jymmm> anonimasu: jackhammer effect?
[16:55:18] <anonimasu> it's a on a haas tl3 i think
[16:55:26] <anonimasu> and they cant push the cutter good enough to make chips :D
[16:55:31] <anonimasu> instead of strings
[16:56:57] <anonimasu> :]
[16:56:58] <anonimasu> weak.
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[16:58:22] <IG-garage> Loetmichel: take the ccunbers when they are little, this way others will come up soon
[16:59:18] <IG-garage> ow do you push the cutter even faster to get chips? you would better get fine surface which sustains fatigue better
[16:59:34] <anonimasu> huh?
[16:59:43] <anonimasu> I use the manufacturer data on the lathe, and the recomended depth of cut
[16:59:47] <anonimasu> and it gives me chips instead of strings
[17:00:01] <anonimasu> 0.5-1.5mm/pass
[17:00:25] <anonimasu> if I cut less I get a stringy mess
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[17:02:11] <skunkworks> pcw_home: on the k&t it was like 40 teeth or something like that.
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[17:04:14] <IG-garage> there can be strings 1,5 mm thick, depends on the cutter
[17:04:34] <pcw_home> Seems like 40 (160 counts) would be enough
[17:05:22] <IG-garage> 80 or 160
[17:05:54] * JT-Shop goes to find out if the wife's bike really gets 82MPG like they claim or not...
[17:07:39] <pcw_home> With a tailwind?
[17:07:49] <skunkworks> The courser the tap - the worse the following...
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[17:08:00] <Loetmichel> PCW: where's the problem?
[17:08:48] <Loetmichel> my 50cc bike used to have a mpg of about 95mpg ;-)
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[17:09:40] <alex4nder> hey
[17:09:42] <IG-garage> where are the files with kinematics?
[17:10:00] <pcw_home> A friend had a Honda 50 at it was close to 200
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[17:11:04] <anonimasu> pcw_home: i cant configure or see errors that the chips gives me unless i have a biss adapter
[17:11:12] <anonimasu> that was supposed to be included with the boards with them
[17:11:21] <Loetmichel> gilera is claming here in germany to sell a 50ccm bike with direct injection and about 1,5l/100km (156mpg)
[17:11:41] <IG-garage> if gallon = USD 4, I can get thru 50 miles on mtb on bananas for these money
[17:13:11] <Loetmichel> a us gallon is 3,79 liter
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[17:13:33] <pcw_home> As I recall the Honda 50 wouldn't go more than about 45 MPH
[17:13:34] <pcw_home> but its 1st gear was so low ther was no trouble hauling passengers up steep hills (at 7 Mph)
[17:13:36] <Loetmichel> and in germany the liter gas costs about 1,70Eur
[17:13:46] <Loetmichel> so more than 4$ ;-)
[17:14:06] <syyl> where do you pay 1,70? Oo
[17:14:11] <IG-garage> so i would get through 75 miles
[17:14:26] <syyl> not even superplus is that much here..
[17:14:48] <IG-garage> where are the files with kinematics (formulas)
[17:14:56] <Loetmichel> syyl: i put diesel in my tank... last tiome i lokked it was 1.699
[17:15:10] <syyl> Oo
[17:15:13] <Loetmichel> is it actual less?
[17:15:19] <syyl> way less iirc
[17:15:27] <Loetmichel> super i mean
[17:15:33] <IG-garage> syyl: USA is bad, it spends all the fuels of earth
[17:16:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.benzinpreis-aktuell.de/
[17:16:31] <Loetmichel> ok, 98roz is at 1579Eur/liter at the moment
[17:16:36] <IchGuckLive> ölpreis lö
[17:16:37] <Loetmichel> 1,579
[17:16:47] <IchGuckLive> Euro
[17:16:55] <Loetmichel> yes
[17:16:55] <syyl> ah
[17:17:00] <syyl> holidays start...
[17:20:13] <alex4nder> I think I paid 0,70 euro for a liter of 95 RON yesterday
[17:20:21] <alex4nder> and that's really expensive for the US
[17:20:28] <anonimasu> -_-
[17:20:42] <anonimasu> waging war to get oil seems to pay off.
[17:21:00] <alex4nder> well yah, but we also don't tax the shit out of it like they do in europe.
[17:21:55] <syyl> and now you are bankrupt ;)
[17:22:00] <alex4nder> haha you're next.
[17:22:15] <syyl> i invest in machines
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[17:22:26] <alex4nder> I'm from California.. we have the 7th/8th highest GDP of any country, and we're stil bankrupt.
[17:22:27] <syyl> money goes, cast iron stays
[17:22:33] <anonimasu> good point :)
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[17:25:04] <Loetmichel> so now it is a little less silly why my car runs on diesel ;-)
[17:25:37] <Loetmichel> ... which is at 1.427eur/liter in germany at the moment AND the car uses less of it
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[17:26:55] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: you could be in venezuela.. it's .02 euro a liter
[17:27:05] <alex4nder> but then you'd have to live in venezuela.
[17:27:35] <IchGuckLive> http://benzinpreis.de/international.phtml WORLD Fuel price
[17:27:48] <Loetmichel> my 2,5l 6cyl turbocharged diesel 150hp gets about 26mpg, the same car with a 2,5l gas engine with 180hp gets about 18mpg ;-)
[17:28:07] <andypugh> PCW: Do any of your daughter cards do simple breakout to screw terminals + 0-10V on one channel for a spindle?
[17:30:01] <KimK> andypugh: Would the 7i33 (among others) do? It's capable of +/-10, but you don't have to.
[17:30:54] <KimK> andypugh: I have a Q for you too.
[17:31:14] <andypugh> 7i33 seems to have A/D on a few too many channels, really.
[17:32:03] <KimK> andypugh: Can you tell me a little about the sensors and circuits you added to your mill spindle encoder?
[17:32:44] <KimK> 7i33 has four channels, yes. You only need one, is that it?
[17:32:46] * anonimasu just plugged the 8i23
[17:32:47] <anonimasu> :)
[17:33:16] <anonimasu> but it looks like my aio cables are a meter too short
[17:33:17] <anonimasu> :/
[17:34:04] <andypugh> KimK: I am not sure I can remember :-)
[17:36:05] <KimK> andypugh: I need to do a spindle encoder, probably optical at this point, and I'd like to not totally re-invent the wheel.
[17:37:34] <andypugh> Let me see if I can find a circuit diagram. If I made one.
[17:38:48] <pcw_home> Andy no but we are working on a SSERIAL device like that
[17:39:53] <andypugh> Ah, yes... I wonder if I could hook my Arduino UARTS into a sserial port?
[17:40:38] <IchGuckLive> is EMC capable to lock the spindel at a serten point ?
[17:40:57] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: Yes, if your drive is.
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[17:41:17] <yOyOeK1> hi
[17:41:58] <IchGuckLive> there are very cheep encoders with deselectable main phases so only index is for rotation RPM and if i need a position i can select the phases o i got 2400Pulses/rev
[17:43:14] <pcw_home> andy Sure but they need to run at 2.5 MBaud (well you can change this if needed but thats a good speed for low time delays)
[17:43:15] <danimal_garage> hi
[17:44:07] <IchGuckLive> IG-garage: some wildfirers around You ?
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[17:44:21] <IG-garage> no fires
[17:45:16] <andypugh> PCW: It seems that the Arduino tops out at 2Mb
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[17:45:37] <pcw_home> I suspect the arduino is pretty slow as well
[17:47:18] <andypugh> I am tempted to try the Arduino with the UART driver.
[17:48:05] <Loetmichel> PCW: depends
[17:48:26] <Loetmichel> there ARE avrs which can be clocked with 40Mhz ;-)
[17:48:54] <pcw_home> but stilll slow...
[17:48:59] <alex4nder> that's not slow
[17:49:19] <alex4nder> a 40 MHz micro with specific firmware to do a certain real-time task can be better than a 2GHz PC
[17:49:24] <pcw_home> Is it 40 Mips?
[17:49:27] <alex4nder> when the PC isn't running an RTOS
[17:49:53] <andypugh> I think pcw is comparing it to what an FPGA can do.
[17:50:00] <IchGuckLive> Xatmega is at 40Mhz
[17:50:05] <danimal_garage> would a flakey harddrive give me an unexpected realtime delay error?
[17:50:35] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: atXmega
[17:50:37] <Loetmichel> yes
[17:50:58] <Loetmichel> danimal_garage: if it has a read error and clicks: yes
[17:51:15] <alex4nder> andypugh: right, apples to apples (similar cost) 40 MHz uC vs. FPGA, the FPGA could potentially do some tasks faster, but the second you start adding a lot of complexity (e.g. building some form of instruction executor) you start losing ground to hard silicon.
[17:51:44] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: flaky?
[17:51:44] <alex4nder> especially if you're executing native instructions on the silicon, and not paying interpretation overhead.
[17:52:12] <danimal_garage> Jymmm: it gives a disk error everytime i restart
[17:52:17] <danimal_garage> and it does weird things
[17:52:24] <danimal_garage> like the mouse will stop working
[17:52:33] <danimal_garage> emc will shut down out of the blue
[17:52:35] <danimal_garage> etc
[17:52:48] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: Ah, yes, it'll attempt to reread sectors. Replace it asap
[17:52:56] <Loetmichel> danimal_garage: what does smartmon say?
[17:53:04] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: BEFORE it dies complately
[17:53:08] <danimal_garage> who's a smartmon?
[17:53:17] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: are the breakout boards available in europ ?
[17:53:21] <Loetmichel> Jymmm_ that was my thought, too
[17:53:22] <pcw_home> actualy a FPGA base CPU will eat moist micros alive (200 MHz is easy in Spartan 6)
[17:53:27] <danimal_garage> Jymmm: it's backed up, i don't care if it dies
[17:53:40] <alex4nder> pcw_home: how much does a spartan 6 cost in quantity 1?
[17:53:43] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: then get rid of it already
[17:53:56] <danimal_garage> why? i might get another week out of it!
[17:53:58] <Loetmichel> PCW: if you get a spartan, you have to compare it with a arm9 or similar
[17:54:01] <danimal_garage> j/k
[17:54:14] <pcw_home> maybe $13 for on that will fit 16 or so uProcs
[17:54:18] <Loetmichel> and then the "eat alive" isnd so eating ;-)
[17:54:18] <danimal_garage> next time i go to fry's i'll grab one
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[17:55:45] <alex4nder> pcw_home: you think you can fit 16 micros with the capability of an AVR at 200 MHz on a $13 Spartan 6?
[17:56:21] <alex4nder> if so, I know someone who will hire you right now.
[17:56:23] <alex4nder> if you need a job.
[17:57:17] <pcw_home> Not as much code space but much better peripherals :-)
[17:57:19] <andypugh> <Guffaw>
[17:57:37] <alex4nder> well of course, you get to make your custom peripherals. ;)
[17:58:05] <andypugh> Is somebody going to let alex4nder into the secret of what PCW does for a living?
[17:58:14] <anonimasu> haha
[17:58:15] <anonimasu> :D
[17:58:34] <JT-Shop> looks like the GZ250 gets 66MPG with a fat guy riding up and down hills so 82 might be possible with someone that is 100lbs lighter and a bit more aerodynamic on flat ground
[17:59:03] <alex4nder> andypugh: whatever he does, he can't bend the laws of physics. ;)
[17:59:14] <IchGuckLive> spartan6 is only 100Mhz !
[17:59:19] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: You can get the Mesa breakouts from cncready.at and duzi.cz
[17:59:26] <alex4nder> andypugh: and yes, I know what he does. ;)
[18:00:17] <JT-Shop> danimal_garage: you find a motherboard for your new machine?
[18:00:56] <pcw_home> No way we have stuff running at 250 MHz
[18:01:29] <andypugh> KimK: http://imagebin.org/165156
[18:03:01] <anonimasu> pcw_home: im amazed at your boards, they look so damn simple. and work nice.
[18:03:28] <anonimasu> i expected the 5i23 to be stuffed :)
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[18:05:50] <anonimasu> bbl...
[18:07:33] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: see the elephant(s)?
[18:08:02] <JT-Shop> yea, seen it before
[18:08:05] <Jymmm> k
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[18:09:09] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop: not yet
[18:09:26] <danimal_garage> just looking for a complete pc on craigslist
[18:09:33] <danimal_garage> i need a monitor
[18:09:50] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
[18:09:54] <andypugh> KimK: But the slotted ones i used on the mill spindle are not OPB702, they are OPB830. The comparator serves to square-up the waveform and lets you adjust the mark-space ratio.
[18:10:17] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: by monitor you mean an LCD or CRT ?
[18:10:24] <danimal_garage> lcd
[18:11:29] <KimK> andypugh: Thanks! But is yours reflective? I thought it was interruptive?
[18:12:50] <pcw_home> KimK do you have a gear that a Hall would work on?
[18:13:05] <andypugh> I re-used the circuit I used for the lathe spindle (which uses reflective)
[18:13:39] <andypugh> opb702 on the lathe, opb830 on the mill.
[18:13:54] <KimK> pcw_home: Unfortunately not, everything is smooth and round.
[18:14:02] <andypugh> And PCW is right, Halls on a gear would work too.
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[18:14:20] <andypugh> You can use a strip of stripy paper...
[18:14:57] <andypugh> Or possibly some tiny reflective optos on the teeth of a toothed-belt pulley
[18:15:21] <andypugh> (Or Halls if it is an iron pulley)
[18:15:32] <pcw_home> It would be neat if you could laser engrave the encoder (chuck up a normal encoder in the spindle and have it pulse the laser)
[18:16:33] <andypugh> How about a very special dataset on a CD-R?
[18:17:18] <andypugh> Using a CDR and a non-tracking laser you could create a serial-absolute encoder :-)
[18:18:23] <pcw_home> Andy: Did you just print on paper for your encoder?
[18:18:39] <KimK> andypugh: That would be a great idea, except in this case I have in mind a split-collar mount.
[18:19:54] <danimal_garage> some guy on cl clearing out a bunch of computers, hopefully he answers my email
[18:20:50] <danimal_garage> he had like 7 p4 dell computers and 4 lcd 17" monitors all for $200
[18:21:08] <danimal_garage> i can build a bunch of machines with those!
[18:21:10] <JT-Shop> neat
[18:23:58] <danimal_garage> my mesa stuff will be here tomorrow
[18:24:28] <JT-Shop> you'll be making chips on Saturday
[18:24:43] <danimal_garage> lol dunno about that...
[18:25:40] <danimal_garage> shouldnt be too hard to wire though, there's a circuit board right in the center with all the wiring marked out. I just have to swap it out for the 7i33 and 7i37
[18:25:50] * JT-Shop cracks open a tube of Alex Plus to finish up caulking the west wall
[18:26:08] <danimal_garage> is your shop better insulated than your house?
[18:26:11] <JT-Shop> yea, I saw the photo... looks easy
[18:26:17] * Tom_itx thinks JT-Shop is stalling to move in now
[18:26:28] <danimal_garage> i agree
[18:26:30] <archivist> cnc bed
[18:26:36] <danimal_garage> he keeps looking for little stuff to do
[18:26:41] <JT-Shop> the house and shop both have R43 in the ceiling and R19 in the walls
[18:27:06] <archivist> and a cnc bar for his beer
[18:27:13] <JT-Shop> the garage is R19 walls and R13 ceiling
[18:27:20] <Tom_itx> linear slide for a bar
[18:27:23] <danimal_garage> next thing you know, he'll be planting flowers
[18:27:32] <JT-Shop> yea, make a EMC2 controlled bar tender
[18:28:01] <JT-Shop> your lucky if I mow the grass once a month LOL
[18:28:13] <archivist> whats grass?
[18:28:13] <Tom_itx> goats
[18:28:28] <JT-Shop> the previous owners had goats here
[18:29:13] <danimal_garage> lemme guess, they came with the house?
[18:29:40] <JT-Shop> only thing on the property was a pole barn with no door when I bought it
[18:30:06] <JT-Shop> we built all the rest
[18:30:26] <archivist> keep putting up sheds till you run out of land :)
[18:30:33] <danimal_garage> a pole barn?
[18:30:40] <danimal_garage> a barn for polocks?
[18:32:03] <JT-Shop> archivist: that would take a long time
[18:32:16] <JT-Shop> the barn was for the goats
[18:34:08] <IG-garage> you have a pond if they come
[18:34:28] <IG-garage> JT-Shop: try to search for pond on your property then
[18:34:33] <IG-garage> ;)
[18:34:40] <JT-Shop> ?
[18:35:44] <IG-garage> the goats
[18:36:27] <IG-garage> you have a pond if they come | try to search for pond on your property then
[18:37:20] <JT-Shop> I'm sure that I don't understand what your trying to say
[18:37:25] <IG-garage> pond — noun: 1. An inland body of standing water, either natural or man-made, that is smaller than a lake, 2. . . .
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[18:38:19] <IG-garage> you probably have a pond on your land if goats come, and "try to search for the pond" was a joke
[18:38:39] <mikegg> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/dso-quad-4-channel-digital-storage-oscilloscope-p-736.html?cPath=174
[18:38:42] <mikegg> I want
[18:39:32] <IG-garage> JT-Shop: i thought goats are somewhat like ducks or geese, true goats come for the grass
[18:39:41] <JT-Shop> yea, I know what a pond is I have one on my other property
[18:40:00] <JT-Shop> no wild goats around here only pets
[18:40:19] <JT-Shop> don't know, never had any goats
[18:40:37] <JT-Shop> I do know a guy that has sheep, does that count?
[18:41:20] <IG-garage> well, it is important in certain case referring to it.
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[18:47:07] <andypugh> pcw_home: I did print my first encoder, yes. But when it started to peel off, I made a metal one.
[18:48:02] <danimal_garage> well i found a computer
[18:48:17] <JT-Shop> cool
[18:48:36] <danimal_garage> nothing too fancy, but i think i'm going to replace my home theater pc with it and use my home theater pc for my machine
[18:48:56] <danimal_garage> my home theater pc was my old lathe's pc
[18:51:40] <alex4nder> danimal_garage: which board/chip is your HTPC?
[18:53:09] <danimal_garage> it's an old dell desktop, pentium 4
[18:53:37] <danimal_garage> the new one's a dell, but it's a core duo
[18:54:38] <alex4nder> I'm going to buy an AMD E-350 board and stick a PCIe parallel port on it, and see what happens.
[18:54:42] <danimal_garage> it's just for streaming netflix
[18:54:56] <danimal_garage> nice
[18:55:02] <danimal_garage> bbl, gotta go pick it up
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[19:50:25] <newbynobi> @All: I am getting crazy learning Python, was is wrong with If label == "Rel." I am getting an Syntax Error
[19:54:26] <Guest861> ha ha ha.... same with me..i just hate this language..
[19:56:03] <andypugh> colon at the end?
[19:56:07] * JT-Shop checks what channel is on... nope it is not #crazyPython
[19:56:34] <andypugh> single quotes?
[19:57:01] <Guest861> i dont knwo much about python but it looks like scripting language.. i dont know why LinuxCNC people promoting it more and more.. i think C/C++ are best for this type of projects ;)
[19:57:04] <andypugh> (Just guessing, I have never actually used Python, just reading a web page about it :-)
[19:57:21] <Guest861> which is your fav language andypugh??
[19:57:27] <andypugh> C is a bit painful for string handline.
[19:58:16] <andypugh> I think that is why EMC2 uses python for texty things and UI
[19:58:58] <andypugh> I rather like Matlab. But <whisper> I am also quite fond of VB.
[20:00:00] <andypugh> All the EMC2 coding I have done has been in C, but I wouldn't claim to actually _like_ it. I like a bit more hand-holding from my programming laguage.
[20:01:46] <Loetmichel> hihi
[20:02:03] <Loetmichel> thats the reeason why i never have learned C
[20:02:18] <Guest861> ha ha ha .. same here VB ....
[20:02:18] <archivist> C is easy compared to python
[20:02:52] <Loetmichel> basic, div. assembler, pascal, modula and a bit java should be sufficient ;-)
[20:03:50] <Guest861> Loetmmichel , i think you are from EUROPE
[20:04:39] <Guest861> andypugh, one question for you.. you know the core architecture for EMC2 if we use keystick or xemc like gui than is it Possible to remove python from build LIST??
[20:05:11] <Guest861> i mean is PYTHON present in Core CODE?? like traj planning HAL etc??
[20:05:56] <andypugh> I have written a 10,000 line program in VBA which basically turns Excel into a completely different application, but one that can be distributed as a "Spreadsheet". It redefines all the toolbars and menus, all it keeps is some of the grid page structure (which suits the application). It then hooks into either of two external programs (using class abstraction) and into a dynamometer controller using serial or ethernet (class
[20:05:56] <andypugh> abstraction again) and runs automated engine tests based on the data in the spreadsheet cells. Tweaking engine timing, fuelling or anything else, while running aquisition of emissions data, load, temps from the Dyno.
[20:07:14] <PCW> Python is not used for any real time code
[20:07:57] <Guest861> so its possible to remove python if we forget AXIS or other gui, right, PCW??
[20:08:29] <Guest861> thats great andy... but why VBA.. you can use VB and Excel components??
[20:08:43] <Guest861> i mean MSGrid or similar
[20:11:30] <andypugh> Guest861: No VB license. :-) I didnt intend to write that, I just wanted to change 5 engine parameters at a time, quickly, and it grew. If I was starting again I would import Excel components into VB, yes. But apart from anything else I didn't know anything about that sort of thing when I started. Everything I know about OO is from VBA too.
[20:12:30] <andypugh> Guest861: Looking at which files are python, I think you might be able to manage without it. hal_manualtoolchange is python, though.
[20:13:49] <andypugh> http://pastebin.com/pCCWy4Xv is a list of all the python files in EMC2
[20:13:52] <mhaberler> Guest861: what exactly are you trying to achieve with a Python purge djihad? not having to learn it ?
[20:13:54] <Guest861> hey andypugh, is there any nice Documentation fro newbie.. like how to start EMC-Development.. it is huge package,one can write book on EMC2 Development.. i observe that newbies just stuck up with lots of source code files
[20:14:37] <andypugh> I am still a newbie with EMC2 development :-)
[20:14:42] <Guest861> you are quite active in answering questions for new comers thats why i am discussing this with you...
[20:14:52] <Guest861> but quite experienced....
[20:15:37] <andypugh> Well, I had never touched C until I started playing about with EMC2 drivers about 18 months ago.
[20:17:57] <Guest861> i am not talking about language.. but a guide line.. for example see any linux/unix book..first start from login command --- shell commands, diff shells , shell prog, than adavance topic like networking and all
[20:18:19] <Loetmichel> [22:04:01] <Guest861> Loetmmichel , i think you are from EUROPE <- yes, i am, germany. why?
[20:19:01] <Guest861> Loetmichel :you wrote pascal so i guessed...
[20:19:15] <Loetmichel> hihi
[20:19:23] <Loetmichel> and an old one, too
[20:19:33] <andypugh> Well, there is a developer manual, but I am not sure how much that helps really: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Developer_Manual.pdf
[20:20:07] <Loetmichel> <- knows assembler for z80, 6502/6510, 68000 and avr ;-)
[20:20:38] <andypugh> I just started reading the code of the small area I was interested in, and expanded from there as other areas came to be of interest. There are large tracts of coda-incognito out there still for me.
[20:20:40] <Guest861> andypugh , i read it ..most of the pages are left blank and there is no FLOW... linuxcnc should remove it.. it really terrifies newcomers ..
[20:21:37] <Guest861> yes i know ... i did the same..but from our experiences and with the help of good documentation maker... i think we can make that developer manual suitable for all...
[20:22:09] <andypugh> If you want to volunteer...
[20:22:30] <Guest861> yes but i dont know EMC architecture as much as you..
[20:22:51] <Guest861> i just tweaked xemc and tried to mimic it in gtkmm
[20:23:43] <Guest861> if people shares their experience how they started EMC2 development than we can do something..
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[20:24:12] <Guest861> i am not talking about core developers but the developers like you and me..
[20:24:24] <andypugh> Manual writing is a fairly thankless task, nobody who knows enough to write it needs it, so it has to be done purely as an altruistic act. JT-Shop has put in an enormous amount of work to make the manuals as good as they are, for no real advantage to himself. All the stuff I have coded has been stuff I wanted to use. Very different motivation.
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[20:25:49] <JT-Shop> I'm just defective that way :)
[20:26:01] <Guest861> ok andypugh... is it possible to port this to Anjuta Like IDE.. it really makes a difference from MS platform programmers like myself..
[20:26:29] <Guest861> no JT-Shop .. you did really good job.. i am sorry for whatever i wrote from documentation..
[20:26:47] <JT-Shop> I'm just making a joke :)
[20:27:38] <andypugh> I don't know. I do all my development in XCode on my Mac, with a remote-mounted filesystem on the LinuxPC for compiling and git-ing via ssh. I am pretty sure I could move the Git stuff to the Mac too, but there is no real advantage.
[20:27:44] <Guest861> sorry port is wrong word. can we make any anjuta project using all this source files. i tried onces.. than i need to read AUTOMAKE AUTOGEN etc ;) so i left...
[20:28:55] <Guest861> you know what i did.. i deleted code from xemc.cc and wrote there only main reason behind this was .. i didnt want to touch AUTO*.* part .. let it be AUTO only ;)
[20:30:08] <Guest861> hey andypugh you use XCode as texteditor only or created project in it???
[20:30:46] <andypugh> I created a project in it.
[20:31:21] <andypugh> Nothing clever, I just imported the whole source tree.
[20:31:32] <Guest861> i dont knwo much about XCode.. you mean to say Cross compiling??
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[20:33:26] <andypugh> No, I suppose I am only using it as a text editor, but one that is code-aware, can indent, can search up the tree for references etc etc.
[20:34:03] <andypugh> The compile is done on the Linux box. I suspect that I could probably start it from Xcode as an external target, though.
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[21:30:26] <danimal_garage> yay got my pc
[21:30:40] <danimal_garage> now to figure out which one goes where
[21:31:08] <FinboySlick> danimal_garage: What motherboard did you use?
[21:31:23] <danimal_garage> i dont know
[21:31:29] <danimal_garage> it's just a dell
[21:31:46] <danimal_garage> didnt care, it's just for my HTPC
[21:32:00] <FinboySlick> danimal_garage: Oh. I thought you meant to use it as an EMC controller.
[21:32:17] <danimal_garage> i'm taking my old htpc and using it for emc
[21:32:28] <danimal_garage> that's an older dell, p4
[21:32:37] <danimal_garage> i used it on my lathe before i got a smaller one
[21:32:49] <FinboySlick> OK.
[21:32:58] <danimal_garage> it'll work fine with emc, it had decent latency
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[21:49:41] <JT-Shop> it's quite possible that I can put my sheetrock tools away now until I start something else :)
[21:50:20] <JT-Shop> it's not even 5 O'clock at danimal_garage house but I'm having a beer anyway
[21:50:47] <danimal_garage> haha well you deserve it!
[21:51:18] <JT-Shop> I'm glad someone important thinks that I do
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[21:52:07] <danimal_garage> important, HA!
[21:52:08] <JT-Shop> danimal_garage: you do the movie download thing?
[21:52:23] <danimal_garage> i stream via netflix
[21:52:44] <JT-Shop> is that only movies or can you get other channels?
[21:53:00] <danimal_garage> movies and tv shows if they have the series
[21:53:41] <danimal_garage> it's not bad, been using it instead of cable for years
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[21:54:40] <JT-Shop> so for things like the outdoor channel and weather channel I need to keep my dish service?
[21:55:10] <danimal_garage> yea
[21:55:40] <danimal_garage> i get a couple channels through the antenna, other than that, i don't watch tv
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[21:56:11] <JT-Shop> I like watching things like Two Fat Ladies from UK
[21:56:24] <danimal_garage> lol i wont ask
[21:57:06] <JT-Shop> cooking show
[21:57:11] <danimal_garage> ah
[21:57:16] <JT-Shop> one does look a bit evil
[21:57:57] <danimal_garage> lol
[21:58:00] <JT-Shop> the ride around on a Triumph with a sidecar
[21:58:18] <danimal_garage> why don't you go on master chef?
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[21:59:28] <danimal_garage> hmm this old p4 doesnt have bad latency
[21:59:41] <JT-Shop> so, prime, prime, paint, wire up outlets and for all practical purposes I'm done with the inside and can start organizing and moving in...
[21:59:52] <danimal_garage> but it gets bogged down easilywhen i have firefox open and stuff
[21:59:56] <JT-Shop> LOL, I need my recipe book to cook
[22:00:15] <danimal_garage> wonder if it'd still be a decent candidtate for emc
[22:00:28] <JT-Shop> short of memory?
[22:00:35] <danimal_garage> 2 gigs
[22:00:56] <JT-Shop> just not enough horsepower?
[22:01:00] <danimal_garage> it's an old 2.53ghz p4
[22:01:21] <JT-Shop> you using 8.04 or 10.04?
[22:01:22] <danimal_garage> shouldnt be that bad
[22:01:26] <danimal_garage> 10.04
[22:01:29] <andypugh> I was talking to the neighbour today, he might want to swap garages with neighbour no2. If so, I might try to make it a 3-way swap so I get the garage that backs on to my garden. So all my painting and electrical work might need to be repeated.
[22:01:49] <JT-Shop> but you get the near one then?
[22:02:44] <andypugh> Yes, and then I can consider extending it into my garden, to have separate garage and workshop.
[22:03:13] <JT-Shop> have I been inspiring you to add on?
[22:03:43] <andypugh> It was always the plan when I bought the house, then I found that it didn't have the garage that one might logically expect.
[22:04:01] <JT-Shop> how did that come about?
[22:04:17] <andypugh> A different logic to mine, I assume.
[22:05:06] <JT-Shop> garage a separate title from the house?
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[22:06:27] <JT-Shop> seems odd to me unless it is some kind of condo thing
[22:06:44] <andypugh> No, it is part of the same property. If we want to swap garages it might cost a fairbit of money in solicitor fees.
[22:07:13] <andypugh> It seems that the google camera car has been down our street!
[22:07:15] <andypugh> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=SS13+1rt&hl=en&ll=51.58205,0.504774&spn=0.000281,0.000945&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=19.438227,30.981445&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=51.58205,0.504774&panoid=rZOJU49mF6V3gJL1eIcgCA&cbp=12,175.05,,0,5.96
[22:07:15] <danimal_garage> weird
[22:07:45] <danimal_garage> my garage is attached to the house, it would be really weird if someone else owned it lol
[22:08:21] <JT-Shop> the garages with the green doors?
[22:08:46] <andypugh> There is a block of three garages out the back, for the three houses at the end of the row. The middle house gets the middle garage, despite the fact that a different garage forms the end-wall of the that garden.
[22:09:16] <andypugh> No, you can only see our garages in the overhead view, they are through the archway on the left.
[22:09:45] <andypugh> I used to live in the white house over a garage, there was no ambiguity there.
[22:10:24] <danimal_garage> servo thread on this pc is 8318
[22:10:33] <andypugh> (I can imagine all the US guys thinking "those houses, they are tiny!")
[22:10:36] <danimal_garage> with glxgears running
[22:11:12] <danimal_garage> 10059 base thread
[22:11:40] <danimal_garage> not bad but i'm just worried about it's slowness
[22:12:06] <JT-Shop> I lived on a 24' sail boat for a year... can't get much smaller than that :)
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[22:13:20] <danimal_garage> really?
[22:13:22] <danimal_garage> wow
[22:13:31] <danimal_garage> that must had smelled after a while lol
[22:13:33] <JT-Shop> yea, in the Gulf of Mexico
[22:13:45] <danimal_garage> were you a pirate?
[22:13:57] <JT-Shop> I took showers in the marina
[22:14:12] <JT-Shop> no, I was single and worked offshore
[22:15:22] <danimal_garage> pirate would have been cooler
[22:15:26] <JT-Shop> cold showers too
[22:15:40] <andypugh> 24' by yourself sounds OK, I am going to be spending a month on a 68' with 17 other people. (and about half the people are spending a whole year on the boat)
[22:15:42] <danimal_garage> yuck
[22:15:53] <danimal_garage> greenpeace?
[22:16:14] <Jymmm> and only bath once a year
[22:17:36] <andypugh> (Round the World yacht race, starts on sunday)
[22:17:39] <JT-Shop> yea, that is 4' per person, much smaller than 24'
[22:18:19] <JT-Shop> neighbor just called and wants to sit on the porch and drink some wine and shoot guns... be back later
[22:18:22] <Jymmm> What is "BBC 1" ?
[22:18:35] <andypugh> It's a television station?
[22:18:44] <Jymmm> Is is a paid service?
[22:18:55] <andypugh> The first television station, I think?
[22:18:58] <Jymmm> What makes it different than BBC ?
[22:19:46] <andypugh> Well, they eventually found that one television station wasn't quite enough, so launched BBC 2, and then the existing station became BBC 1
[22:20:53] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I'm trying to find seasons 5+ of the show 'Hustle', but netflix stops at season 4
[22:21:26] <Jymmm> wikipedia says the show moved to BBC1 *shrug*
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[22:23:22] <andypugh> It's not currently on iPlayer or being broadcast.
[22:23:33] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hustle_episodes
[22:23:56] <Jymmm> there seems to be a year gap at season 5
[22:25:48] <andypugh> You could look on http://www.thebox.bz/login.php
[22:26:01] <Jymmm> Oh great... they havne't release Seasons 5-6 in Region 1 (North America) yet is why *sigh*
[22:26:15] <Jymmm> DVD that is
[22:26:37] <Connor> Hey guys, I'm putting together a list of tooling from Shaars.com.. someone care to look it over? I need to add a set of V-blocks and end mills to it (need help deciding what size v-blocks and which end mills)
[22:26:58] <Connor> here is the list thus far, 202-1022, 202-8004, 202-8015, 404-7146, 303-7201 (5x4x1-1/2" Vise, 3/4" shank for the 3" Boring head, with a set of boring bars, and 18" steel parallels set.)
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[22:31:44] <andypugh> Have you seen the guys selling CNC kits on eBay?
[22:31:49] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111-Pc-Techniks-CAT-40-CNC-Mill-Tooling-Kit-Haas-Fadal-/220820219910 for example
[22:32:10] <Connor> Holy smoke
[22:32:28] <Connor> That's a bit $$$
[22:32:39] <andypugh> There are smaller sets
[22:33:03] <Connor> and they're also in the uk.
[22:33:28] <andypugh> No, I just searched from the UK.
[22:33:33] <Tom_itx> the long holders are limited use imo
[22:33:33] <Connor> oh.
[22:33:51] <elmo40> that is cheap
[22:34:07] <andypugh> There are other folks selling other kits, that was just an example.
[22:34:20] <alex4nder> hey
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[22:34:33] <Tom_itx> are the yellow packs the retention knobs?
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[22:34:57] <elmo40> ER collets
[22:35:12] <elmo40> ER16 and ER32
[22:35:17] <Tom_itx> oh i see the knobs in front center
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[22:35:56] <andypugh> But I do like this collet design from the Shars site http://www.shars.com/products/gallery/8371/
[22:36:21] <andypugh> Might be handy for my limited-daylight mill
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[22:38:19] <andypugh> Connor: Or, for cheaper (and the delivery is faster than you might expect, about a week) http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/StoreFront
[22:39:22] <elmo40> ya. just got a flyer with this new setup
[22:39:28] <Connor> Biggest thing I'm trying to figure out is buy a set of end mills, or just a few.. I'll mostly be doing Aluminum.
[22:39:29] <elmo40> very stubby indeed
[22:39:50] <andypugh> I get all my tooling from eBay.
[22:40:08] <andypugh> Much of it used, but cheap.
[22:40:45] <Connor> Not done much with a Mill, so, I don't want to get the most expensive ones.. but, ones that works good.. so, either order a set from Shaars.com or grizzly, or pick a few from shaars to add to my order.
[22:40:56] <Connor> and then the V-blocks.. I'm not sure which ones to get..
[22:41:06] <Connor> http://www.shars.com/product_categories/search/?search=V%20Block&&page=2
[22:41:34] <Connor> they have 4 I'm looking a, 5207, 5209, 5211, and 5213
[22:42:29] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOBLOT-75-END-SLOT-MILLING-CUTTERS-ENGINEERING-TOOLS-/200633515510 ? (Or similar locally)
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[22:43:48] <andypugh> I was amazed how much sharper a Dormer milling cutter was that far-eastern no-name, and how much better it cut. So I would suggest buying just a couple of really good cutters to start.
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[22:58:50] <Tom_itx> http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/
[22:58:55] <Tom_itx> i think JT-Shop likes those
[22:59:02] <Tom_itx> i haven't tried any yet
[23:01:27] <andypugh> I am trying to decide how much I want a left-hand turning tool by tomorrow night. I do have a job that would be much easier with one, that has t be finished tomorrow night for a friday delivery (to a boat that is setting off round the world).
[23:03:29] <andypugh> Connor: V-blocks are almost never too big, but the 2.75" is so much more expensive I think that, if it was my money, I would get the 1.5/8" Having said that, I don't have any.
[23:03:47] <Tom_itx> heh
[23:04:37] <Tom_itx> i would probably go with the smaller one too although i don't have any large mills
[23:05:19] <Tom_itx> andypugh, why lefthand? righthand won't fit where you need it?
[23:05:46] <andypugh> Indeed, need to turn two rounded shoulders.
[23:06:04] <andypugh> I could turn the work round and do two setups.
[23:06:29] <Tom_itx> that's always a pita
[23:06:56] <Tom_itx> manual or cnc?
[23:08:30] <andypugh> CNC.
[23:08:38] <andypugh> But no more than 2 parts.
[23:08:50] <Tom_itx> i'd get the holder, you can always use it
[23:09:07] <Tom_itx> but if you need it out the door quick you may not have time
[23:09:09] <andypugh> well, yes, it isn't the first time I have wanted one.
[23:09:25] <Tom_itx> i would be lost without a left and right on my manual mill
[23:09:36] <Tom_itx> i had a center as well but seem to have lost it somewhere
[23:10:03] <andypugh> I can buy one for £44 including 10 inserts from somewhere 200 yards from my front door. Or pay £26 mail order. (but no inserts)
[23:10:11] <Tom_itx> i don't think you'd regret getting one
[23:10:38] <andypugh> Yes, I can see myself stopping off on the way to work tomorrow.
[23:15:07] <Tom_itx> wow. 110F out today
[23:16:33] <Tom_itx> record high for this day
[23:16:40] <Tom_itx> previous was 106
[23:17:31] <Tom_itx> 43.3C
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[23:30:34] <danimal_garage> i find that tool dealers tend to be cheaper and better than msc or similar sites
[23:30:48] <danimal_garage> i get all my stuff through my local tool dealer
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[23:38:07] <Connor> How about this set for a starter set ? Nice, Cheap, 1/8 through 1/2" http://www.shars.com/products/view/3970/1812quot_HSS_Two_Flute_Single_End_Mill_Set
[23:40:46] <andypugh> Too cheap.
[23:41:40] <Connor> I would like a 1/8, 1/4, and 1/2 for alum work mostly..
[23:43:16] <Connor> and I would prefer they all have the same shank size.
[23:44:31] <andypugh> These look better: http://www.shars.com/product_categories/view/2101405/M42_8_Cobalt_Single_End_Mills
[23:44:46] <andypugh> And why do you want all the same shank size?
[23:44:59] <Connor> Don't have to change the collet out as much.
[23:45:06] <andypugh> What sort of toolholding system does your machine have?
[23:45:20] <Connor> Just standard R8 Collets ATM.
[23:45:22] <Tom_itx> on my sherline i try to get 1/2" shank and if you're gonna do alot of aluminum, i'd get some ti coated ones
[23:45:50] <Connor> Allot of these area 3/8"
[23:46:19] <Tom_itx> maybe mine are 3/8, i'd have to go look
[23:46:37] <Tom_itx> i'm betting they're 1/2
[23:47:48] <Connor> Okay, So, What's the deal with Tin vs M42 vs Carbide etc etc?
[23:47:53] <andypugh> R8 is a bit of a pain to swap, they are so very long. I can see your point.
[23:48:26] <Tom_itx> carbide are costlier
[23:49:26] <andypugh> M42 is a higher grade HSS, TiN is a pretty coating that can be put on cheap chinese tools to make them look more technical, or on high quality tools to make them better. Carbide is harder, much stiffer, and won't take quite the same edge, or handle being dropped.
[23:50:16] <Tom_itx> won't dull as fast
[23:50:27] <Tom_itx> will chip much faster
[23:50:28] <Connor> 2 Flute for Alum best?
[23:50:34] <Tom_itx> yup
[23:50:52] <Connor> I've seen 3 Flute.. but.. 2 Flute is the concensus.
[23:51:01] <Connor> dinner, back in a bit.
[23:51:14] <Tom_itx> i've used 3 flute but prefer 2
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[23:54:30] <FinboySlick> While on the topic of tools and holders... Anyone recommendations for sets of ER11? I have a few of both metric and inch but if the price is right, I'd just grab a full set of each.
[23:54:40] <FinboySlick> (collets, that is)
[23:56:11] <FinboySlick> Well, looks like Shars has a nice imperial set.
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[23:58:28] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Don't get an Imperial set of ER. Get a metric set. Metric sets will take any diamter in the range, but Imperial ones won't
[23:58:58] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Interesting idea.
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[23:59:39] <andypugh> (Check though. It's defnitely true for ER32)
[23:59:45] <FinboySlick> Finding metric tools around here isn't all that easy though. Canada might be officially metric but it sure isn't in practice ;)