#emc | Logs for 2011-07-21

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[00:47:59] <mikegg> 0.3 Ohms is low for measuring between two secondary coils isn't it?
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[00:49:51] <John_f_> between two coils of what?
[00:50:40] <mikegg> sorry, a transformer
[00:51:15] <John_f_> well if it is low voltage and high current mabe not
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[00:51:25] <John_f_> maybe
[00:52:01] <mikegg> I thought I was going to do a series deal of 30 volts
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[00:52:36] <mikegg> going to have to rethink my strategy
[00:52:45] <John_f_> oh from one winding to another?
[00:52:52] <mikegg> yes
[00:52:55] <John_f_> then you have a problme
[00:53:04] <jeramee> do you have to run a CNC with Gcode ?
[00:53:20] <John_f_> no
[00:53:23] <jeramee> can you just send signals to x, y and Z
[00:54:01] <John_f_> but if you want to use EMC you probably
[00:54:05] <John_f_> do
[00:54:13] <mikegg> I guess I'll take it out of the case, plug it in and see if it smokes again
[00:54:54] <jeramee> hmm
[00:55:10] <jeramee> so maybe program pic to understand g code then?
[00:56:23] <John_f_> sounds like re inventing the wheel
[00:56:48] <John_f_> a lot if work goes into a g code interpreter
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[00:58:34] <jeramee> really
[00:58:52] <John_f_> what kind of machine do you want to control?
[00:59:04] <jeramee> any canned Code for Pic or AVR
[00:59:21] <jeramee> small machine with stepper motors on tracks
[00:59:28] <jeramee> with bearings
[00:59:44] <jeramee> moved by ball and cable or acme threads
[01:00:27] <John_f_> why not use EMC2?
[01:01:28] <jeramee> do I need to interperate Gcode
[01:01:31] <jeramee> to use
[01:01:40] <mikegg> can you wire two transformer secondary windings in series? is it just a matter of getting the phase right?
[01:02:11] <jeramee> or just send directions and full or half step
[01:02:13] <John_f_> yes as long as the voltage is not too high
[01:02:17] <PCW> yep they will add or subtract
[01:02:18] <jeramee> pulses
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[01:03:10] <John_f_> EMC2 will interperate the Gcode and make the pulses
[01:03:33] <John_f_> you don't have to invent anything
[01:04:14] <jeramee> nice
[01:04:45] <jeramee> does it send out direction, half, full step?
[01:05:09] <jeramee> what about input from encoder or limit switch or speed?
[01:05:13] <John_f_> it can send out direction and step
[01:05:35] <jeramee> I have read documentation and still unclear on a lot.
[01:05:55] <John_f_> you don't need encoder feedback with steppers
[01:06:04] <jeramee> hard to know where to begin, I have power supply designed and put together
[01:06:17] <jeramee> and my buddy has the frame 75% done
[01:06:39] <jeramee> just need to work on the interface and drivers
[01:06:44] <John_f_> you need stepper drives that take pulse and direction inputs
[01:06:46] <mikegg> i think the voltage shouldn't be higher than 30 volts pk-pk on these legs . has two other coils that go higher..
[01:07:34] <mikegg> would getting the phase wrong cause a transformer to smoke?
[01:07:39] <John_f_> mikegg: then series should be ok. it is best if the windings are the same
[01:07:43] <mikegg> I think I let some smoke out...
[01:07:53] <John_f_> no you wont get any voltage
[01:07:57] <mikegg> just a little bit!
[01:07:59] <John_f_> if the phase is wrong
[01:08:08] <jeramee> I have some that I can send pulses A -A B -B
[01:08:16] <jeramee> they were free
[01:08:27] <jeramee> and they go with the 3 amp motor
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[01:09:31] <John_f_> A -A B -B should go to the motor
[01:09:37] <jeramee> I could program pic to interpret the direction and send the proper pulse to the motors
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[01:10:33] <jeramee> is there an easy way to do than with pics
[01:11:01] <jeramee> I just was going to do it that way cause I know more about programming the pics than designing the circuits
[01:12:11] <PCW> mikegg if these are primary windings, yes wrong phasing on a spit primary will make a almost dead short
[01:12:25] <PCW> s/spit/spilt/
[01:12:45] <PCW> s/spilt/split/
[01:13:14] <jeramee> you know smoke runs the chips right?
[01:13:42] <jeramee> is why they stop working when you let the smoke out, lol
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[01:14:53] <jeramee> no seriously though Mikegg, I am not a master of electronics and perhaps my power supply will not work at all, idk.
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[01:15:17] <jeramee> But I ran all the math formula's and according to the numbers it will work.
[01:16:07] <jeramee> I will tell you what I built and maybe others that are more experienced than me can tell you if this is the proper way or not
[01:16:54] <jeramee> big transformer, bridge rectifier and some capacitors
[01:17:10] <jeramee> then on the other end make a switched mode power supply
[01:17:18] <mikegg> http://www.antekinc.com/pdf/AN-4458.pdf
[01:17:33] <mikegg> brown/brown and orange/orange are secondaries, no?
[01:18:01] <jeramee> put 3 switched mode power supply in parallel to the main power
[01:18:34] <jeramee> in theory if 1 or 2 motors are on the other will route current through diode
[01:18:50] <John_f_> mikegg: yes those are secondaries
[01:19:23] <jeramee> and if the current gets too high it will the switched power boards will route power through diode as well
[01:19:24] <John_f_> how did you connect the primarys red black
[01:19:45] <jeramee> the other way to do it is to use thermal shutdown powersupply
[01:19:48] <Tom_itx> jeramee, you do know there is code for avr to interpret gcode?
[01:20:00] <mikegg> i don't understand why it smoked. I wired one of the browns to one of the oranges. and went to measure between the other two. and it started smoking
[01:20:04] <John_f_> connect red to red and black to black
[01:20:09] <jeramee> spends more energy with thermal though.
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[01:20:17] <mikegg> they are all open now. no smoke
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[01:20:29] <jeramee> I will go check on that schematic mike see if I can help
[01:20:47] <jeramee> <---- not all that knowledgeable though
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[01:21:48] <John_f_> mikegg: what you described soiunds OK
[01:22:26] <John_f_> did you apply 120V to the red and black?
[01:22:32] <mikegg> yea
[01:23:08] <John_f_> green and blue wires un connected?
[01:23:32] <mikegg> I have those wired in parallel. I surmise
[01:23:44] <mikegg> blue to blue and brown to brown
[01:23:52] <mikegg> ooooh maybe that smoked
[01:24:31] <mikegg> but I left that stuff hooked up and it didn't smoke just now
[01:24:42] <John_f_> brown to brown would be a shorted secondary
[01:24:48] <mikegg> right
[01:25:34] <John_f_> I would disconnect all secondaries then hook up the primary to power
[01:25:52] <John_f_> then measure each seconday winding and see if you get the correct voltages
[01:26:15] <John_f_> if not then you may have an internal shorted turn or turns and it will get hot
[01:29:29] <jeramee> oh tom stll here?
[01:32:47] <jeramee> i really only program pics been meaning to get into avr though cause usually you run out of pins on projects Pics tend to have more program memory etc but less pins
[01:33:00] <Tom_itx> i used to do pic
[01:33:21] <jeramee> people been saying AVR is good and easier to work with so I am thinking of changing
[01:33:32] <jeramee> if nothing else just for the extra pins
[01:33:34] <Tom_itx> avr have free tools and i think are better
[01:34:13] <Tom_itx> i've done up a programmer for em
[01:34:36] <jeramee> yeah I stay on Ubuntu and I downloaded a compiler that works in my code blocks so I am thinking of giving AVR as spin
[01:34:56] <jeramee> did you build from scratch and if so do you have any tips?
[01:35:28] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[01:36:03] <Tom_itx> based on the lufa usb stack done up by dean camera
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[01:37:56] <jeramee> tom do you really think i need a pwm to send to my data lines on driver chips
[01:38:15] <Tom_itx> i wasn't following the thread
[01:38:24] <Tom_itx> just got in on the tail end of it
[01:38:27] <jeramee> can't i just use time delay like 1 what 5 sec
[01:38:38] <jeramee> or 0 wait 5 sec
[01:38:49] <jeramee> no one said i did on here
[01:39:09] <jeramee> just me and my buddy was talking about it last week
[01:39:29] <Tom_itx> for steppers?
[01:39:37] <mikegg> i gotta read up on this stuff. night fellas. thanks for your help
[01:39:53] <jeramee> yeah
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[01:45:49] <Tom_itx> step and direction
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[01:49:19] <jeramee> yeah like if i send x forward = 1, x pulse =1, then i just send the pulse stream to A, -A, B, -B in the proper order based on the direction info
[01:49:44] <jeramee> if x pulse or x full step
[01:50:06] <jeramee> then no need to send pulses
[01:50:32] <jeramee> not sure if this is how EMC2 works
[01:50:42] <Tom_itx> if you're using a stepper driver you send it a pwm pulse and a direction
[01:51:03] <Tom_itx> unless you're generating the step pulse yourself
[01:51:44] <jeramee> i am generating the step pulse myself cause this is the chip that went with the motor
[01:52:03] <jeramee> a -a b -b
[01:52:18] <jeramee> so i would need 4 PWM outputs?
[01:52:57] <Tom_itx> http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/index.html
[01:55:45] <jeramee> you build reflow ovens tom?
[01:56:09] <jeramee> and btw thanks for link that is really helpful
[01:56:21] <Tom_itx> np
[01:56:23] <Tom_itx> and yes
[01:56:28] <Tom_itx> i built one
[01:58:16] <jeramee> you should build ones that are mountable to assembly line
[01:58:24] <jeramee> and pick and placement machines
[01:58:48] <jeramee> hack a day has 1 that is buildable for under 1 k
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[02:23:20] <jeramee> does anyone recommend dynamic breaking for unipolar stepper motors?
[02:24:00] <jeramee> as I realize that torque is already an issue with stepping motors I am guessing no
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[02:30:56] <jdhNC> I'd guess it couldn't work with a stepper and even if it could, it would make it lose position
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[02:43:00] <jeramee> i think tom is afk
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[07:12:41] <MrSunshine> http://www.bastli.ethz.ch/index.php?page=bastli_circularsaw oo i like =)
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[08:24:34] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:43:47] <nicko> evening
[08:53:40] <mazafaka> heh, 4 o'clock
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[09:00:00] <nicko> just read this after a google search: "For
[09:00:28] <nicko> My spindle drive can output analog signals of the current draw ...
[09:00:31] <nicko> VERY NICE
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[09:37:32] <IG-garage> trying to make shared folders for windows in virtual box, and linux
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[16:03:01] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:22:31] <pcw_home> cricket.wav
[16:24:21] <skunkworks> just means either - no one is using emc anymore - or it is working so well - no one has questions...
[16:25:07] <syyl> second one :D
[16:25:08] * archivist_emc admits to playing with his manual lathe and milling machines....
[16:25:29] <skunkworks> NOOOoooooo
[16:25:45] <syyl> *throws a rock*
[16:25:50] * skunkworks now writes a program to cut a 2X4 to length
[16:26:14] <syyl> emc controlled circular saw?
[16:26:40] <psha> skunkworks: all questions are on russian forums :)
[16:26:55] <psha> last week one guy was building contact rotrary scaner
[16:27:12] <Loetmichel> syyl: YOU of all peope throwing stones?
[16:27:25] <Loetmichel> for using manual machines?!?
[16:27:30] <syyl> of course :P
[16:27:41] <archivist_emc> I have been thinking of a cnc controlled microfiche scanner
[16:28:16] <archivist_emc> but cannot afford the camera I want yet
[16:28:17] <Loetmichel> syyl: you see me in total disbelief ;-)
[16:28:40] <syyl> im a cnc machinist finaly :P
[16:28:41] <Loetmichel> archivist_emc; microfiches?
[16:28:47] <syyl> at work and home..
[16:28:59] <Loetmichel> a 5Mpix webcam should be sufficient
[16:29:10] <Loetmichel> for ONE fice at a time
[16:29:21] <archivist_emc> Loetmichel, I think 10mp
[16:29:43] <Loetmichel> hmm, i think tahts not necessary
[16:29:49] <archivist_emc> some are smaller than others
[16:29:57] <psha> archivist_emc: microfiches?
[16:30:24] <Loetmichel> a single picture on a MF is as much information as on a legal sheet of paper
[16:30:39] <Loetmichel> so 5MPix should be enough
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[16:31:13] <archivist_emc> psha http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H-D-PARTS-MICROFICHE-1986-1990-XLH-MODELS-99451-90M-/190464246785?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item2c588dc401
[16:31:25] <Loetmichel> and cheap usb-webcams have the advantage that the optics are easily adapte to macrofunction
[16:31:36] <archivist_emc> Loetmichel, fold out diagrams and in the denser format
[16:31:53] <psha> archivist_emc: ah, got it
[16:32:05] <psha> Loetmichel: cheap webcam is crap :(
[16:32:12] <Loetmichel> depends
[16:32:13] <psha> it's built from crap sensor
[16:32:17] <psha> and crap optics
[16:32:22] <psha> glued using melted crap
[16:32:27] <archivist_emc> been practicing with 7mp camera and its not up to the job
[16:32:34] <Loetmichel> i have an old 3,3 mpix mustek digicam
[16:32:37] <psha> archivist_emc: get some canon camera with chdk
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[16:32:43] <Loetmichel> which has a webcam mode
[16:33:04] <archivist_emc> I know I want webcam mode
[16:33:04] <Loetmichel> and that little fella isnt so bad as it sounds
[16:33:33] <Loetmichel> (for about 30$ it has decent optics)
[16:33:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=111
[16:33:53] <archivist_emc> some fiche are at 24X some at 48x magnification
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[16:34:11] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=578
[16:34:13] <archivist_emc> so I know already 5mp wont cut it
[16:34:32] <psha> archivist_emc: maybe you need to project it somehow?
[16:35:27] <archivist_emc> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/fiche_experiments/50mm_on_stand/IMG_1063.JPG
[16:35:43] <archivist_emc> that is not a full coverage on 7mp
[16:36:12] <archivist_emc> canon 300D
[16:36:41] <Loetmichel> hmm, i dont have any microfiches to test
[16:37:00] <Loetmichel> but i think a better Webcam would do
[16:37:05] <archivist_emc> I have 600 ish to scan
[16:37:20] <Loetmichel> have heard there are now some with 8mpix on the market
[16:37:28] <archivist_emc> oops 0 missing 6000
[16:38:04] <archivist_emc> I have seen 10mp microscope cameras, cannot afford though
[16:38:40] <Loetmichel> hmm, maybe it would be better to buy a cheap usb dia scanner and adapt the optics?=
[16:38:41] <archivist_emc> getting the camera stand solid enough is another problem
[16:39:34] <syyl> use more steel
[16:39:37] <syyl> ;)
[16:40:17] <Loetmichel> and then dont project the image but use some steppers to move it on the scanning surface of the dismantled diascanner directly?
[16:40:19] <archivist_emc> psha, I did take a pic of one projected in a microfiche reader. poor light coverage
[16:41:24] <psha> archivist_emc: btw your 300d has macro mode?
[16:42:02] <archivist_emc> psha, I added a close up, also done an experiment with lens on a tube
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[16:47:17] <anonimasu> mhm
[16:47:29] <anonimasu> it's cleaner around the mill at work then in my kitchen -_-
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[16:47:51] <archivist_emc> to enable ocr on the resultant one needs an effective 400 dpi across the original page, the image is 9mm wide ish for that double page I linked
[16:48:21] <jtektool> anyone got any tips on homing maybe just slow it down?
[16:48:41] <jtektool> im getting +-.005 on homing position
[16:48:41] <anonimasu> jtektool: trip the sensor make a slow move when going bck
[16:48:43] <anonimasu> back
[16:49:04] <psha> very slow latch velocity don't help?
[16:49:10] <psha> maybe your sensor is not ideal?
[16:49:17] <archivist_emc> and make sure the switch is a good one
[16:49:22] <jtektool> hmm just using defaults now i just ran my first art two days ago
[16:49:29] <jtektool> *part
[16:49:50] <jtektool> they are origial anilam sensors
[16:50:26] <jtektool> prolly just need to slow it down a little in the ini right
[16:51:01] <psha> jtektool: there are two velocities - search and latch
[16:51:07] <jtektool> aha
[16:51:09] <psha> you need to lower latch
[16:51:10] <psha> not search
[16:51:15] <psha> search is initial part of homing
[16:51:19] <jtektool> gotcha
[16:51:25] <jtektool> thanks a billion
[16:51:30] <psha> there is very good scheme describing this process in docs
[16:51:33] <psha> in Homing section
[16:51:37] <jtektool> cool
[16:51:47] <jtektool> just excited just got this thing working
[16:52:02] <jtektool> sometimes its just quicker to ask;)
[16:52:32] <jtektool> anyways youtube.com/jtektool
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[16:53:35] <jtektool> and yes im running parallel port cuz this is the only job this machine will ever do i have two more to rebuild using mesa cards
[16:54:04] <jtektool> it just going to drill these rails that go on the sides of wave solder pallets all day long
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[16:57:36] <IchGuckLive> Hi all in the Hot USA
[16:57:51] <Tom_itx> 106F today yessir
[16:57:59] <IchGuckLive> 55000 people this morning in the german life stream of the shuttle landing
[16:58:09] <kb8wmc> hello IchGuckLive
[16:58:15] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: hi
[16:58:23] <jtektool> grr heat
[16:58:29] <pcw_home> Cool and foggy this Morning in SFBA
[16:58:32] <jtektool> 120 in the shop
[16:58:47] <IchGuckLive> here in Germany rain and only 20Deg Celcius since 1 week
[16:59:10] <jtektool> 9/5*20+32=?
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[16:59:46] <jtektool> 68 degrees? what
[17:00:01] <pcw_home> only 64 here ATM
[17:00:16] <IchGuckLive> 68F here in Ramstein AFB
[17:00:53] <jtektool> its been like 90 degrees and 90 % humidity for two months here
[17:01:12] <skunkworks_> finally cooled off a bit here
[17:01:13] <jtektool> we get like 4 days a month in the 70s
[17:01:13] * anonimasu has a infinite stream of one off parts
[17:01:25] <IchGuckLive> in spring we also got 16weeks with no drop of rain and 100f here
[17:01:42] <kb8wmc> yikes
[17:02:14] <pcw_home> Yow!
[17:02:45] <anonimasu> :)
[17:02:50] <IchGuckLive> Phenix with new Sand storm
[17:03:04] <IchGuckLive> good for car repair
[17:03:23] <IchGuckLive> and of cause carwash
[17:03:47] <IchGuckLive> is there also school holiday in the USA
[17:03:50] <jtektool> time to hide in the front office and pretend im programming
[17:04:16] <jtektool> :)
[17:04:24] <IchGuckLive> jtektool: link
[17:04:40] <anonimasu> http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/IMAG1530.jpg
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[17:04:44] <jtektool> like this link
[17:04:45] <anonimasu> my new hammer ^_^
[17:04:54] <jtektool> youtube.com/jtektool
[17:05:04] <jtektool> or jtektool.com
[17:05:09] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: copper to the other side !
[17:05:25] <anonimasu> brass
[17:05:35] <anonimasu> i dont have any copper stock
[17:05:54] <anonimasu> it's kind of heavy and the shaft is springy, but it was intentional
[17:05:59] <IchGuckLive> jtektool: only 2 vids
[17:06:09] <anonimasu> so whatever you slap dosent hurt you
[17:06:20] <IchGuckLive> brass is not good for tooling anonimasu
[17:06:39] <anonimasu> hmm, it should be alot softer then the steel im machining
[17:07:32] <jtektool> yeah new setup
[17:07:33] <anonimasu> jtektool: before you know it you'll have big servos with encoders and 10m/min rapids :]
[17:07:55] <jtektool> hmm i got two new machines to do i just finished that one
[17:07:59] <IchGuckLive> jtektool: Monitor more worth then the hole mashine
[17:08:09] <jtektool> hah
[17:08:17] <jtektool> it just drills rails
[17:08:34] <anonimasu> wouldnt it be better to drill them faster :D
[17:08:37] <IchGuckLive> is ther only one driver stage
[17:08:39] <anonimasu> zip zip zip
[17:09:12] <jtektool> yeah that was a first run so i slowed everything way down cuz i get paranoid
[17:09:26] <jtektool> if i break a tool or something someone will hang me
[17:09:32] <anonimasu> why?
[17:10:00] <IchGuckLive> its yout tol so break as mutch as you want
[17:10:09] <jtektool> no its my dads tools
[17:10:16] <jtektool> we run the shop together
[17:10:27] <IchGuckLive> ah
[17:10:28] <anonimasu> you know, you cant really be cheap on tools or be scared to break them if you intend to be machining stuff
[17:10:31] <anonimasu> take my word for it
[17:10:44] <anonimasu> it's the cost of buisness :)
[17:10:45] <IchGuckLive> onky one tool in the shop thats good to the envirermant payment
[17:11:02] <jtektool> yeah that was the first time running that post processor in mastercam too
[17:11:22] * anonimasu sums up the broken tools of today 1 insert edge.. -_-
[17:11:32] <anonimasu> it went better then my first run
[17:11:32] <IchGuckLive> ah use heekscnc this will reduce the cost by 100%
[17:11:34] <jtektool> 4/cutter speed /diameter i know
[17:11:45] <jtektool> 4*cutter speed / diameter
[17:11:58] <anonimasu> mhm, chipload * speed = feed
[17:12:17] <anonimasu> for everything up to 5-20mm that works pretty good
[17:12:17] <jtektool> right not much chipload in fiberglass
[17:12:39] <IchGuckLive> V=d*PI*n to get n
[17:12:40] <syyl> forgott number of tooth, anonimasu
[17:12:47] <jtektool> correcto
[17:12:56] <anonimasu> I did
[17:13:06] <anonimasu> mhm, chipload * speed * teeth = feed
[17:13:07] <anonimasu> sorry.
[17:13:08] <anonimasu> :)
[17:13:12] <syyl> :)
[17:13:17] <jtektool> :)
[17:13:18] <IchGuckLive> thees*chipload*n 0 speed
[17:13:22] <syyl> or you use only flycutters :D
[17:13:33] <anonimasu> I never ever use thoose
[17:13:42] <anonimasu> most stuff I cut with my indexable 20mm cutter
[17:13:57] <IchGuckLive> and kep the chipload low for real good cost efficency
[17:14:02] <anonimasu> long overhang so it chatters a bit, but not enough to destroy the inserts
[17:14:17] <anonimasu> like 80mm overhang..
[17:14:17] <archivist_emc> psha, do you know which canon 10mp powershot does work with chdk, dont want to buy n cameras to find a working one
[17:14:17] <anonimasu> :)
[17:14:22] <syyl> hu?
[17:14:26] <syyl> hold the chipload up
[17:14:30] <syyl> the cutter wants to cut
[17:14:32] <syyl> not rub
[17:14:38] <anonimasu> then i tweak the speed to make it not chatter in cut
[17:14:44] <syyl> needs something to bite ;=
[17:14:54] <jtektool> anyways we have tool libraries in mastercam that just saves it all but i have know library for this machine every machine seems to have nuances
[17:15:10] <jtektool> like a 30 year old machine
[17:15:22] <syyl> every job has its nuances...
[17:15:24] <psha> archivist_emc: there is extensive list on chdk dev wiki
[17:15:30] <psha> better to check there
[17:15:49] <syyl> some parameters that work on one job, sometimes don't even close work for another
[17:16:16] <IchGuckLive> syyl: agree
[17:16:34] <jtektool> and then theres the different kinds of stainless
[17:16:40] <jtektool> i hate machining stainless
[17:16:42] <anonimasu> I cut pretty much only flame cut steel
[17:16:56] <syyl> i cut plastics most of the time.. ;)
[17:17:09] <IchGuckLive> 1.2316 is the most hate to me
[17:17:44] <anonimasu> IchGuckLive: that seems neat compared to the hardox :D
[17:17:47] <jtektool> man one time this dude was eying this piece of stainless and a molten hot chip flew of and burned his face
[17:17:49] <syyl> stuff like that..
[17:17:49] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-07-12_07-28-37_715.jpg
[17:17:51] <jtektool> permanent scar
[17:17:54] <syyl> typical workpiece for me
[17:18:04] <syyl> or that
[17:18:05] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-07-06_12-10-05_63.jpg
[17:18:30] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-05-26_10-58-07_370.jpg
[17:18:31] <syyl> ...
[17:18:32] <anonimasu> syyl: neat!
[17:18:35] <syyl> the fun never ends :D
[17:18:48] <anonimasu> indeed
[17:18:56] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: but i found a new one its only in Böhler M303 that is better and more millable but more prici 2
[17:18:58] <anonimasu> I cut a piece for a furnace the other day
[17:19:12] <anonimasu> IchGuckLive: what if you factor in tool cost?
[17:19:22] <anonimasu> does it even out?
[17:19:44] <anonimasu> syyl: what amazing fun fixturing that must have been
[17:19:44] <anonimasu> :D
[17:19:46] <IchGuckLive> tool is ok
[17:19:57] <Loetmichel> syyl: is that really plastics?
[17:20:04] <IchGuckLive> 68Euros for a 7Teeth 10mm cutter
[17:20:09] <anonimasu> looks like black acetal
[17:20:10] <Loetmichel> i thought more of pressed ceramics?
[17:20:39] <Loetmichel> no acetal
[17:20:40] <syyl> nothing special, anonimasu
[17:20:43] <jtektool> how about 2000 dollars for a 4x8 piece of fiberglass
[17:21:03] <jtektool> composite materials are expensive
[17:21:05] <Loetmichel> jtektool: feet?
[17:21:08] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-05-26_13-40-58_563.jpg
[17:21:10] <jtektool> c`orrect
[17:21:11] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: www.bohler-international.com/M303DE.pdf
[17:21:13] <syyl> thats the fixture ;)
[17:21:33] <anonimasu> neat!
[17:21:35] <syyl> just pressed in and secured with a drop of ca-glue
[17:21:45] <syyl> Loetmichel, its sustapeek
[17:21:49] <anonimasu> what are they throttle cams?
[17:22:02] <syyl> with a little fibreglass added
[17:22:14] <Loetmichel> anonimasu: parts for Circuit breakers i assume
[17:22:18] <syyl> very hard and can be machined to extremy sharp contures
[17:22:21] <syyl> yes
[17:22:21] <Loetmichel> knowing where syyl works ;-)
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[17:22:48] <syyl> they move something in a large breaker
[17:22:55] <syyl> dont have seen the complete device so far
[17:23:05] <syyl> as it only exists as a 3d model
[17:23:11] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:23:17] <IchGuckLive> syyl: this looks like UREOL 600
[17:23:19] <anonimasu> that kindof sucks
[17:23:27] <syyl> the brown stuff?
[17:23:33] <IchGuckLive> yes
[17:23:38] <anonimasu> well, time to flush some chips away and walk the dog
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[17:23:41] <anonimasu> bbl!
[17:23:43] <syyl> its renshape
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[17:23:46] <syyl> almost like ureol
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[17:24:14] <Loetmichel> jtektool: last time i looked my ex-boss has payed about 2000 Eur for a sheet Carbon fibre in 2800mm*1100mm*20mm
[17:24:15] <IchGuckLive> i got a modell builder in town that sells this for 2,5Euros per KG
[17:24:35] <syyl> we use it always for milling fixtures as its pretty cheap and can be machined easylie
[17:24:44] <Loetmichel> but glass fibre shoud be about a tenth the price
[17:24:56] <IchGuckLive> syyl: as here 2
[17:25:02] <syyl> :)
[17:25:14] <syyl> also doing prototyping work?
[17:25:40] <IchGuckLive> prototyping below 10000 parts in DuranAluminium
[17:25:42] <Loetmichel> hmmm,i am still searching for a souce in germany for spmaal parts of ureol/renshape
[17:25:51] <Loetmichel> but more the heavy stuff
[17:25:57] <Loetmichel> with less air
[17:26:05] <syyl> hehe
[17:26:12] <Loetmichel> source
[17:26:19] <syyl> we do below 10 parts...
[17:26:20] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: size ?
[17:26:22] <Loetmichel> small
[17:26:38] <Loetmichel> about 200*200*20-100mm
[17:26:40] <IchGuckLive> 100x100x300
[17:26:49] <Loetmichel> would be ok also
[17:26:56] <Loetmichel> cutoffs and such
[17:28:28] <Loetmichel> and maybe some parts in 210*120*40 or bigger and a density which can accomodate a spax screw without bulging
[17:29:01] <syyl> the higher grades dont take wood screws
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[17:29:07] <Loetmichel> as a replacement for the wood here: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11450
[17:29:24] <Loetmichel> syyl: the last one was additional
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[17:30:22] <Loetmichel> i am generally searching for the heavy qualitys but the lighter stuff would be great as a coolant proof replacement for the wooden mounting plate on my CNC
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[17:30:40] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: querry
[17:30:49] <Loetmichel> seen it
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[17:33:07] <Loetmichel> as i have two ppl here wich have experience with this stuff: is it possible to get a double sided tape fixed on the lighter densitys AND peel it off without damaging the plate or the need to shave the glue off by milling it some tenths?
[17:33:37] <syyl> with a good grade of double sided tape, yes
[17:33:45] <syyl> just peel of and be happy
[17:34:00] <syyl> its my standard sacrificial milling plate
[17:34:18] <syyl> cheap tape leaves glue
[17:35:34] <syyl> the 99ct stuff wont work...
[17:35:53] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/Picture%20079.jpg
[17:36:03] <syyl> we use a pretty expensive one from tesa, with paper carrier material
[17:36:12] <syyl> so far, the only one, that works
[17:37:12] <syyl> neat!
[17:37:18] <syyl> but
[17:37:21] <syyl> what does it?
[17:37:22] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/Picture%20062.jpg
[17:37:46] <jtektool> these are what ligns up backup cameras in all ford gm hummer nissans
[17:38:53] <anonimasu> a weird thing
[17:39:13] <jtektool> actual goal is to automate these knobs with servos and emc in the future
[17:39:56] <jtektool> the deal is there is a photosensor on the chip which must align exactly on the lens or they dont work
[17:40:44] <jtektool> cant give up pictures of the automated one yet cuz we have only one finished and therez some serious trade secrets but i can tell you that
[17:41:26] <jtektool> it aligns lens to photosensor and takes a picture of target and references a jpeg
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[17:42:30] <jtektool> at which point it injects uv sensitive epoxy and seals it all together with these fiber optic uv thingies
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[17:42:39] <anonimasu> it dosent sounds like a whole lot of black magic :)
[17:42:48] <jtektool> no not really
[17:42:57] <jtektool> i just dont want trouble from ford
[17:43:50] <anonimasu> good point :D
[17:44:16] <jtektool> but hey where linux dudes i like sharing
[17:44:21] <jtektool> we're
[17:45:25] <anonimasu> I wouldnt like people giving away how my stuff works inside either ^_^
[17:46:22] <jtektool> its funny tho therez not much secrets just a very standard camera with a very standard 12v signal
[17:47:10] <jtektool> and a very standard signal i use a rca cable to hook up to that tv in the picture and a computer psu with a load resistor across 5v
[17:47:26] <jtektool> (for testing
[17:48:19] <jtektool> you can actually c that in the picture
[17:49:25] <jtektool> <<havent actually signed any contracts so the engineering is all ours anyways
[17:49:41] <jtektool> just wouldn't want to lose customers
[17:50:01] <syyl> *steals the idea*
[17:50:03] <syyl> *runs*
[17:54:19] <jtektool> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35965228/Picture%20082.jpg
[17:54:28] <jtektool> haha your really far behind dude
[17:54:43] <jtektool> that was 2007 were we beyond that
[17:54:52] <jtektool> *way
[17:55:06] <syyl> damit :D
[17:55:19] <jtektool> lol
[17:55:22] <syyl> then i need to find another way to get rich
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[17:56:48] <jtektool> so anybody got any idea about licensing issues if i do you emc in custom machines?
[17:57:27] <jtektool> i know people prefer bsd license for selling things i wouldnt really be selling the software
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[17:58:16] <newbynobi> jtektool: You dont sell the software, but your technical solution.
[17:58:22] <jtektool> but if i build a machine and use emc as a control (with some added custom python widgits) can i get in trouble for selling the hardware
[17:58:27] <jtektool> right
[17:58:29] <alex4nder> jtektool: that alignment is cool, I worked on a project where our camera had 3 CCDs, and each one was offset from the other by half a pixel (north/south, east/west)
[17:58:33] <newbynobi> So there should not be a problem
[17:59:03] <alex4nder> jtektool: so the CCDs had to be aligned down to a half pixel, and then glued in place.
[17:59:26] <newbynobi> No, I don't think you get trouble, but you are forced to give all changes as open source
[17:59:51] <jtektool> what about python widgets
[18:00:25] <jtektool> i really dont care all these guys are so scared of linux anyways and i like sharing
[18:00:30] <newbynobi> If they are includes in the software, you have to open all the source
[18:01:01] <jtektool> yeah prolly just will anyways i dont want any legal snafus
[18:01:12] <alex4nder> it also depends on how you tie the python code into the existing source
[18:01:18] <jtektool> but we got ideas for hexapods and such
[18:01:37] <alex4nder> but if you GPLed your Python, anyone who you sold it to, would have to give back to the changes if they distribute it.
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[18:01:51] <jtektool> aha
[18:01:57] <jtektool> thats what i dont want
[18:02:10] <alex4nder> don't want what?
[18:02:11] <jtektool> i dont want someone changing stuff and then reselling it
[18:02:17] <alex4nder> then don't use the GPL
[18:02:18] <IchGuckLive> id Go open or Go Home !
[18:02:23] <jtektool> we get a lot of that
[18:02:28] <alex4nder> because you don't have a choice in that case.
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[18:03:01] <alex4nder> if you ship modified EMC, and your code is part of the EMC application, people could potentially resell the changes you've made.
[18:03:22] <alex4nder> but I mean, you got EMC for free with that stipulation, so it's just part of the process.
[18:04:00] <jtektool> well we do a lot of first run engineering and theres so much backstabbing in the game right now
[18:04:38] <jtektool> stuff ends up in china and then these guys call us like we cant get this to work...can you fix it for us...
[18:04:44] <alex4nder> haha
[18:05:15] <newbynobi> What about writing your own comp file. I donn't thing this ones mus be open source, because the are not integratet in EMC
[18:05:16] <alex4nder> that's when you name your price
[18:05:39] <jtektool> lol
[18:05:48] <alex4nder> newbynobi: I've never heard that config files used by GPLed code inherit a GPL license.
[18:06:11] <alex4nder> but then again, the GPL is kind of hazy on how it applies.
[18:06:18] <anonimasu> no it's not hazy on that part
[18:06:23] <jtektool> yeah so what about xmls that add buttons to axis and such
[18:06:27] <anonimasu> you can write closed source components that links with gpl code
[18:06:31] <alex4nder> hahaha
[18:06:35] <alex4nder> anonimasu: no you can't.
[18:06:42] <alex4nder> that's the whole point.
[18:06:54] <anonimasu> as a matter of fact you are allowed i think in lgpl2 or something
[18:07:01] <alex4nder> the LGPL isn't the GPL
[18:07:16] <anonimasu> or was it gpl2
[18:07:21] <jtektool> oh so confusing
[18:07:31] <jtektool> i think thats the diff between 2 and 3
[18:08:04] <jtektool> i just want to build stuff
[18:08:27] <alex4nder> jtektool: the GPLv3 is more expansive than the GPLv2,.. it doesn't let you link binaries either.
[18:09:04] * anonimasu sighs
[18:09:23] <anonimasu> I think you can use gpl software commercially but only if you ship the source with whatever you distribute
[18:09:46] <jtektool> The GPL does not require you to release your modified version, or any part of it. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.
[18:10:03] <jtektool> got that from gpl site^^^
[18:10:09] <anonimasu> that's nice
[18:10:18] <alex4nder> jtektool: if you ship your software to someone else, it's no longer used internally.
[18:10:30] <alex4nder> e.g. if you sell a product based on the GPL to someone, and give them the product.
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[18:12:21] <jtektool> Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money? answer coming
[18:12:40] <jtektool> Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)
[18:13:01] <jtektool> so i am confused
[18:13:10] <alex4nder> what's confusing?
[18:13:16] <anonimasu> it's pretty clear
[18:13:22] <anonimasu> you need to provide the sourcecode on request
[18:13:43] <alex4nder> you have to give people the same rights you got.
[18:14:09] <jtektool> yeah so i can sell it to them but they can redistribute it to anyone?
[18:14:40] <alex4nder> yes
[18:14:44] <jtektool> this a totally academic discussion by the way the plan is to give the software and sell the hardware
[18:15:21] <jtektool> which was by the way how all computer hardware was before microsuck
[18:15:21] <anonimasu> you can always patent the mechanical part of a process
[18:15:35] <jtektool> for 8,000
[18:15:37] <jtektool> $
[18:15:55] <anonimasu> or "design" protect it
[18:16:02] <jtektool> we had a situation once where we didnt patent something and the company we sold it to did
[18:16:10] <anonimasu> so nobody can build a machine that looks similiar
[18:16:19] <anonimasu> you couldnt show prior art?
[18:16:46] <jtektool> yeah and as a matter of fact its a linux box hookt to ntp
[18:16:49] <jtektool> server
[18:17:00] <anonimasu> you can trademark how things look also...
[18:17:15] <anonimasu> if you want to protect them a bit, but you dont want to have a full parent
[18:17:17] <anonimasu> patent
[18:18:19] <jtektool> said situation is why i brought all this up cuz business people just seems slimy to me as an engineer/programmer
[18:18:39] <alex4nder> jtektool: business people think they're better than you at business.. because they probably are.. so they exploit that.
[18:19:42] <jtektool> yeah well of course they are i'm thinking on how to actually build something it goes back to a sort of tesla/edison debate
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[18:20:27] <jtektool> if im long gone and people are using something i built then better for all the people
[18:20:28] <alex4nder> jtektool: you ever read The Four Steps To The Epiphany
[18:20:29] <alex4nder> ?
[18:20:34] <jtektool> no
[18:20:43] <jtektool> <<<looking up that now
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[18:22:46] <jtektool> will read it later
[18:22:49] <jtektool> got pdf
[18:23:35] <jtektool> thanks for the insight im going to go build something!!!
[18:23:39] <alex4nder> cool
[18:24:06] <jtektool> maybe the heat will chill out now
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[19:43:40] <danimal_garage> PCW: are you around?
[19:44:28] <danimal_garage> i gotta figure out what mesa board to get
[19:54:16] <PCW> The most expensive!
[19:54:25] <fragalot> obviously
[19:54:57] <syyl> one of every type
[19:55:11] <fragalot> then give the ones you don't need here
[19:55:12] <fragalot> :P
[19:55:14] <danimal_garage> i got that little mini mill, so i was going to get a 7i33 and a 7i37
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[19:56:25] <danimal_garage> but then i was thinking, i don't really have enough channels on the 7i33 or outputs on the 7i37 for my big mill, so i thought maybe there was an option to upgrade that machine and use those cards for my mini mill
[19:57:03] <skunkworks> that sounds like a plan - get a 5i20 or such for you big mill
[19:57:14] <danimal_garage> i have a 5i20 on there
[19:57:21] <danimal_garage> i'm out of room
[19:57:27] <skunkworks> oh - really - and you used all the i/o up?
[19:58:01] <danimal_garage> i have a 7i42 and a 7i37, and they're mostly full
[19:58:13] <danimal_garage> all the outputs are used on the 7i37
[19:59:07] <skunkworks> I am using 2 5i20's on the K&T
[19:59:07] <danimal_garage> i'm using all the analog outputs on the 7i33, so i can't add a 4th axis without expanding
[20:00:38] <danimal_garage> i thought he had mentioned a 6 channel analog servo interface board, but i didnt see it
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[20:04:15] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: yes - 7i48 I think.. I am using it
[20:04:53] <danimal_garage> ah!
[20:04:57] <danimal_garage> now i see it
[20:05:31] <danimal_garage> is there a larger version of the 7i37?
[20:05:39] <skunkworks> works awesomely.
[20:05:52] <danimal_garage> sweet
[20:06:46] <danimal_garage> the firmware supported it?
[20:07:09] <danimal_garage> or did you have to download newer firmware
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[20:16:25] <skunkworks> umm - I don't remember. I think it is packaged with emc.
[20:17:18] <andypugh> danimal_garage: 7i64 big enough for you? You can have 24 of them on a 5i20 (in theory)
[20:17:25] <danimal_garage> whats with the 7i64?
[20:17:30] <danimal_garage> ah
[20:17:33] <danimal_garage> beat me to it
[20:18:13] <danimal_garage> how do i connect that? do i need a 7i50 or something to connect it to the 5i20?
[20:18:35] <andypugh> 7i44
[20:19:09] <andypugh> I think you could just use wires, but the 7i44 lets you hook it all up with ethernet patch cables
[20:19:27] <andypugh> Which reminds me, I need a 4" patch cable for mine.
[20:20:26] <danimal_garage> ouch! i'm looking at like $400 in boards
[20:24:19] <danimal_garage> maybe i just get the 7i48 for now
[20:24:34] <danimal_garage> PCW: got any 7i48's in stock?
[20:25:26] <danimal_garage> i think the engraving machine can just get away with a parport e-stop button
[20:26:29] <danimal_garage> i wonder what the i/o board and servo interface board is that came in this machine
[20:26:46] <danimal_garage> i forgot the computer when i picked it up, so i gotta go back for it
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[20:39:04] <anonimasu> PCW: any chance you happen to know about a order sent to sweden from you?
[20:39:05] <anonimasu> :]
[20:41:11] * anonimasu lacks order confirmation
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[20:43:49] <danimal_garage> i heard him say something about banning all orders from Sweden because his Volvo broke down
[20:44:27] <danimal_garage> :)
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[20:46:52] <PCW> 7I44 is a a 8 channel RS-422 interface (with RJ45 connectors using our pinout)
[20:47:23] <PCW> anonimasu, yes I think its been sent out
[20:47:35] <anonimasu> ^_____________^ perfect! thanks
[20:48:53] <danimal_garage> PCW: do you have any 7i48's in stock?
[20:49:13] <PCW> Yes
[20:49:53] <danimal_garage> sweet
[20:50:03] <danimal_garage> i'll order one soon
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[20:51:04] <danimal_garage> i wish i could find a spindle that would run on single phase 115v
[20:51:28] <danimal_garage> i wanted to put my mini mill in my office but i don't have 220v in there
[20:53:11] <PCW> You will need EMC 2.5 for the 7I48 (and 7I48 is a little different, than 7I33: needs PWM mode 2 @24 KHz)
[20:54:07] <danimal_garage> i have 2.5 pre
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[21:04:34] <IG-garage> Can i write "g01 x- z- f-" as "g01 z- x- f-"?
[21:04:56] <anonimasu> yes
[21:05:44] <JT-Shop> is bluetooth usually only found on laptops?
[21:06:01] <anonimasu> by default yes, but there's a million usb adapters for it
[21:06:50] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll just use my wife's laptop to download some photos from my phone and quit looking on all the rest of the computers
[21:07:08] <IG-garage> What if I draw in XY plane (with QCad) a detail, and pathes for cutter, then create G-code for it as it's a profile (in HeeksCAD), and manually edit it, what would you guys say, "it's OK for hobby stuff" or "it's stupid at a firm which does milling and turning"?
[21:07:33] <anonimasu> it's ok, but it's not cost efficient
[21:08:00] <IG-garage> JT-Shop: USB bluetooth dongle can be added to any computer
[21:08:17] <anonimasu> IG-garage: i'd say that you should spend a hour or two tweaking until it works flawlessly
[21:08:18] <IG-garage> anonimasu: i thought the same :)
[21:08:25] <JT-Shop> yea, I just need to download some photos, I'll use the wife's laptop
[21:08:44] <IG-garage> yeah, exactly, i'm tweaking after SprutCAM about 15 minutes only
[21:09:00] <anonimasu> IG-garage: also, it opens space for errors(expensive ones)
[21:09:40] <danimal_garage> how's the move going, JT-Shop?
[21:10:07] <JT-Shop> getting ready to finish off the west wall and the last 8' of the ceiling
[21:10:19] <danimal_garage> still painting?
[21:10:21] <JT-Shop> got a few more things to move like my 1500lb workbench
[21:10:41] <danimal_garage> nice
[21:10:42] <IG-garage> anonimasu: no, i'm using EMC to clearly see the paths of cutters, and i edit g-code from postprocessors a bit with assistance of EMC
[21:10:42] <JT-Shop> I have some mudding to do now on the last couple of rows of sheetrock
[21:10:56] <danimal_garage> cool
[21:11:05] <danimal_garage> btw, i got that little cnc machine
[21:11:10] <JT-Shop> have you seen the last photos Dan?
[21:11:14] <danimal_garage> no
[21:11:32] <JT-Shop> I saw that, cool did it turn out want you thought it might be?
[21:11:43] <danimal_garage> yea, it was pretty nice
[21:11:48] <danimal_garage> all ball screws
[21:11:49] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/inside/inside.xhtml
[21:12:00] <danimal_garage> pretty damn solid
[21:12:00] <JT-Shop> last row is real recent
[21:12:23] <JT-Shop> cool, got a spindle spotted yet?
[21:12:55] * JT-Shop wanders inside to download some photos
[21:12:56] <andypugh> Bosch Colt is 115V..
[21:12:57] <JT-Shop> brb
[21:13:00] <danimal_garage> that looks awesome!
[21:13:04] <JT-Shop> thanks
[21:13:13] <danimal_garage> no spindle yet
[21:13:21] <danimal_garage> andypugh: will it last?
[21:13:27] <JT-Shop> 66°F in there too... just right for an old fart
[21:13:44] <IG-garage> anonimasu: cd-rom of my laptop couldn't handle bootable cd with windows xp, and this night I had to install virtual box into linux mint 11, and installed windows into virtual machine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4I2ICC6PLI
[21:13:58] <andypugh> I don't know. I believe that they are quite commonly used on hobby routers.
[21:13:58] <danimal_garage> perfect temp for working
[21:14:16] <danimal_garage> andypugh: thanks! i just want to use it for engraving
[21:14:19] <anonimasu> IG-garage: I guess for a one off, and nothing more it'd be ok but anything more and I'd consider the tweaking
[21:14:27] <anonimasu> how well does heekscnc work?
[21:15:19] <Connor> I use a Bosch colt in my router.
[21:15:22] <Connor> ccn router.
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[21:15:39] <danimal_garage> i dont even need a vfd, i wont need to change rpm's much
[21:15:44] <IG-garage> anonimasu: it works just fine (produces various g-codes for EMC, and 'standard ISO output'), but doesn't make turning
[21:15:44] <danimal_garage> Connor: how loud is it?
[21:16:11] <anonimasu> mhm, I wonder if I could force it to post heidenhain..
[21:16:24] <Connor> danimal_garage It can be loud at max RPM.. But, I have it in a enclosure.. with the door to my office closed, my wife can't here it in the bed room (next room over)
[21:16:29] <IG-garage> anonimasu: in HeeksCNC, context menu on 'Program' offers to choose the type of the g-code produced
[21:16:48] <danimal_garage> Connor: thanks! was it easy to mount?
[21:16:51] <Connor> and that's with the vacuum running too. (which is in a cabinet underneith it)
[21:17:12] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc
[21:18:03] <Connor> The movies has good shot of the mount.
[21:18:09] <Connor> the other pics area of a older design.
[21:18:09] <IG-garage> anonimasu: And mastercam... Does it have a postprocessor which is compatible wth EMC (my old sprutcam version only have some strange postprocessors)
[21:18:16] <danimal_garage> ok thanks, i'll take a look
[21:18:28] <anonimasu> i think there's one very similiar
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[21:20:22] <danimal_garage> that should work good for what i need
[21:20:42] <Connor> yea, I think I used 2.5" hole for the mount.. then cut a slit in it.
[21:20:53] <danimal_garage> sweet, all i need is a servo interface card to get this thing working
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[21:21:09] <Connor> using steppers or servos ?
[21:21:14] <danimal_garage> servo
[21:21:28] <Connor> Really? how big is it?
[21:21:31] <Connor> the machine
[21:22:04] <danimal_garage> approx 3 feet square
[21:22:23] <Connor> Servo seems overkill for that.. unless you already have'm
[21:22:38] <danimal_garage> i got it off of craigslist
[21:22:48] <danimal_garage> it's complete minus spindle
[21:22:51] <Connor> ah
[21:22:57] <Connor> pictures ?
[21:24:10] <danimal_garage> the ad was deleted and i havent taken any yety
[21:24:17] <Connor> k
[21:24:26] <danimal_garage> it's still in my van
[21:24:27] <Connor> custom built? or standard machine?
[21:24:44] <anonimasu> how reliable is the code heeks posts?
[21:25:01] <danimal_garage> it was an industrial part marker, it had a printer head on it
[21:25:03] <anonimasu> or how can I change the post it uses?
[21:25:10] <danimal_garage> it was made by a company
[21:25:37] <danimal_garage> very heavy duty though, it weighs a couple hundred lbs, and has ball screws and linear bearings
[21:26:41] <danimal_garage> http://www.jetec.com/brochures/lms_series.html
[21:26:48] <anonimasu> actually how do i change the post?
[21:26:49] <andypugh> PCW: I can't really think of a good way to integrate the UART FIFO into TRAM addressing. Can you?
[21:27:00] <danimal_garage> Connor: that's the machine
[21:27:10] <andypugh> low-level reads and writes seem more sensible.
[21:27:49] <andypugh> danimal_garage: Is it rigid enough for engraving? I would imagine that a printer exerts zero force.
[21:28:02] <danimal_garage> yes
[21:28:04] <Connor> danimal_garage: interesting.
[21:28:14] <skunkworks> andypugh: I think there is a #cam channel that is related to heeks
[21:28:21] <danimal_garage> it's a pretty heavy duty steel frame
[21:29:45] <danimal_garage> i don't anticipate any issues
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[21:30:09] <anonimasu> I can tweak the post, but will heeks crash my machine?
[21:30:27] <danimal_garage> looks like it can feed 600ipm
[21:30:31] <danimal_garage> not bad
[21:31:28] <IG-garage> have just pour off the tea (green, no sugar) around the laptop. From a 0.5 cup.
[21:32:01] <anonimasu> well, todo for another day, set up heeks to work with the heidenhain at work
[21:32:38] <IG-garage> heeks only produces g-code, revide this obtained g-code in EMC in simulation mode, with config file similar to your machine specs
[21:32:48] <anonimasu> im not running emc at work :/
[21:33:00] <anonimasu> did it ever machine your table on it's own?
[21:34:15] <IG-garage> i only dealt with manual mill and lathe, made a couple of precise details on lathe (for my bike)
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[21:39:58] <PCW> andypugh: no stream stuff is awkward. for packet stuff its probably better to use SSERIAL
[21:40:34] <andypugh> I don't want to spend too long on it really, either.
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[22:03:02] <andypugh> PCW: Thinking about it, Isssy is going to know exactly how many bytes he wants to send each cycle, so we probably can use TRAM.
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[22:19:38] <IG-garage> anonimasu: HeeksCNC moved to git (from svn), and they have turning.py and maybe something else. i plan to install it from github.com
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[22:34:32] <IG-garage> anonimasu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1vlG5CP_00
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[22:34:44] <IG-garage> HeeksCNC's postprocessors
[22:34:58] -!- jthornton has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[22:35:23] <IG-garage> no, wait need another video, not all the postprocessors :)
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[22:41:18] <IG-garage> here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBfLINAn4Jo
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[22:44:23] Nick is now known as Guest90838
[22:58:30] <IG-garage> oh, going to take a ride in the morning with no moaning! sweater, shorts and knee pads on.
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[23:26:16] <JT-Shop> finally the internet is back up
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[23:27:41] <Guest90838> anyone here using adaptive feed control ?
[23:27:56] <JT-Shop> for?
[23:28:19] <Guest90838> adapting their feed ?
[23:28:34] <JT-Shop> to what?
[23:28:48] <Guest90838> exactly ...
[23:29:00] <Guest90838> I'm wondering what for
[23:29:30] <JT-Shop> well I use voltage feedback to control my Z axis position
[23:29:41] <Guest90838> yeh ?
[23:29:49] <Guest90838> voltage feedback from ?
[23:29:55] <IG-garage> CAM software have adaptive feeds through implemented data about chip load and amount of flutes and material. IT generates the G-code afterwards. You may change feed rates it produces though.
[23:30:25] <Guest90838> IG>> that is the analogy of 'open-loop' feed control
[23:30:27] <Guest90838> ?
[23:30:27] <JT-Shop> tip voltage
[23:30:36] <IG-garage> I mean, it offers feed rate, but you also can assign it yourself.
[23:30:56] <Guest90838> tip voltage huh - ooh, for ... um, yeh whats that ?
[23:31:07] <JT-Shop> plasma
[23:31:19] <Guest90838> ahhh - right ok
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[23:32:00] <IG-garage> do you mean velocity of movements or any hardware thingies?
[23:32:05] <Guest90838> In trying to understand it I came up with the following idea: (can you tell me if I'm on the right track or not)
[23:32:18] <JT-Shop> finally the real question
[23:32:31] <Guest90838> its *a* question
[23:32:43] <Guest90838> I did want to know about other uses also
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[23:32:56] <Guest90838> shucks - I might just not ask it now ;)
[23:33:39] <Guest90838> anyways - cant resist:
[23:34:14] <JT-Shop> http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=103557&sid=a6c7fec0814d6ee7207b9f1b80ba27b5&view=unread#unread
[23:34:43] <Guest90838> ok, so you have a spindle that is tryign to maintain an RPM - when it loads up - the current will go up - you output a signal proportional to this
[23:34:56] <Guest90838> to EMC - via, I dunno a Mesa board ?
[23:35:19] <IG-garage> oh, this question is not to me.
[23:35:46] <JT-Shop> could be done but...
[23:35:58] <Guest90838> EMC2 can now propotionally modify the feed (the coodinated feed of all axes) so that the drive will never overload
[23:36:12] <Guest90838> or if set appropriately - the tooling wont break
[23:36:33] <JT-Shop> if g code is done correctly tooling will never break
[23:36:36] <Guest90838> this way, you can have a set load, rather than a set feed
[23:36:50] <JT-Shop> and proper examination of cutting edges before a job
[23:36:57] <Guest90838> this way, you dont have to set g-code correctly - which takes time
[23:37:10] <JT-Shop> no time at all to do it right the first time
[23:37:16] <Guest90838> also the feed rate will effectviely me maximised to whatever load you set
[23:37:24] <Guest90838> another time saver -
[23:37:30] <JT-Shop> tooling is not designed to be used that way
[23:37:44] <JT-Shop> and will wear out quicker wasting time
[23:38:03] <JT-Shop> good idea though
[23:38:04] <Guest90838> but you can set the load to be anything - minimal if you choose
[23:38:14] <Guest90838> *less* than normal ...
[23:38:32] <JT-Shop> that will wear out your tools real fast and cause breakage
[23:38:47] <Guest90838> ok, *optimised* for your tool
[23:39:34] <JT-Shop> then that is the proper SFM and FPT for the tool set by S and F
[23:39:34] <Guest90838> whatever it is about non-adaptive 'constant feedrate' that is better for tooling - you could program
[23:39:45] <Guest90838> yes
[23:40:10] <Guest90838> but your part isn't a series of linear moves in everycase
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[23:40:22] <JT-Shop> like I said earlier yes you can do it if you want
[23:40:59] <Guest90838> it might have turns and weird conventional to climb crossovers - ball mills on 5 axis etc...
[23:41:19] <JT-Shop> might be...
[23:41:49] <Guest90838> why woudl it " wear out your tools real fast and cause breakage " ?
[23:42:22] <JT-Shop> minimal feed rates will cause heat build up and destroy your cutting edges
[23:42:40] <Guest90838> ahh ok
[23:42:46] <Guest90838> yes agreed
[23:42:50] <JT-Shop> end mills are designed to remove material at a rate to also remove the heat build up from cutting
[23:44:01] <Guest90838> so is there any way or at least partial correration between 'proper' speed+feed and current/drive load ?
[23:44:11] <JT-Shop> yes, you can do it
[23:44:36] <Guest90838> but it aint the bucket of kittens I thought it was ? (I like kittens)
[23:44:47] <JT-Shop> so do I
[23:45:19] <Guest90838> so does what I'm talking about have any at least partial correlation to a bucket of kittens ?
[23:45:22] <andypugh> Guest90838: Yes, that is what adaptive feed is for, and EMC2 has a pin for it.
[23:45:24] <JT-Shop> it should not be much of a challenge to do with HAL
[23:45:41] <andypugh> motion.adaptive-feed I think..
[23:45:54] <JT-Shop> that in 2.5 Andy?
[23:46:11] <Guest90838> seems like its there in 2.4.x
[23:46:33] <andypugh> It's been there a while. Since at least 2,3
[23:46:36] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_emc2hal.html
[23:46:38] <JT-Shop> yep I see it in 2.4
[23:46:55] <Guest90838> just wondering who is using it this way ?
[23:46:59] <andypugh> M52 to turn it on.
[23:47:04] <Guest90838> yup
[23:47:05] <Valen> its probably cheaper than a copy of mastercam with enough addons to do it "right"
[23:47:24] <Guest90838> "right" ?
[23:47:25] <andypugh> I seem to recall hearing of it as the latest thing.
[23:47:32] <andypugh> (But that was 10 years ago :-)
[23:47:45] <JT-Shop> motion.adaptive-feed IN float
[23:47:47] <JT-Shop>
[23:47:49] <JT-Shop> When adaptive feed is enabled with M52 P1, the commanded velocity is multiplied by this value. This effect is multiplicative with the NML-level feed override value and motion.feed-hold.
[23:47:50] <Valen> the way JT-Shopwas talking about
[23:48:03] <Guest90838> ahhh
[23:48:31] <Guest90838> but that way seems to have a bit of a breakdown in the 'feedback' loop
[23:48:46] <andypugh> So, with a closed-loop spindle you could probably just hook direct into the P-term of the PID as your adaptive feed input :-)
[23:48:49] <Valen> in theory you should need no feedback
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[23:49:21] <Valen> in practise it might help prevent a gouge being a really bad day
[23:49:44] <andypugh> http://www.heidenhain.de/presentation/iTNC530/EN/index/N13A02/N13A57/N13A57.html
[23:49:50] <andypugh> It isn't just EMC2
[23:49:53] <JT-Shop> I'd bet it would be too late if you program G0 instead of G1
[23:50:18] <Tom_itx> who would do such a thing?
[23:50:25] <Valen> i dunno we seem to be able to take out a fair chunk before the tool snaps ;->
[23:50:28] <JT-Shop> let me find the photo
[23:50:41] <andypugh> I have thought about using it as a way to give a closed-loop stepper the chance to "catch up"
[23:51:22] <Guest90838> in saying you can program your moves so that feeds and speeds are perfect and you'll have no feedback is forgetting that the knowledge you used to program the part drew upon observations of previous work and applied it *yourself* - i.e. you were closing the loop ;)
[23:51:29] <Valen> it'd be usefull when optimising toolpaths
[23:51:38] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Machine%20Shop/HPIM0598.jpg
[23:52:13] <Valen> see that made a fair dent ;->
[23:52:26] <JT-Shop> HSS end mill too
[23:52:30] <andypugh> How about machining a natural material like wood, where there is piece-to-piece variation?
[23:52:41] <Guest90838> I wonder what they mean by "other process data" ->>>>"depending on the respective spindle power consumption and other process data"
[23:52:45] <Valen> we are doing some wood now
[23:52:51] <Valen> its *really* variable
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[23:52:58] <JT-Shop> that's where your ears and the FO knob come into play yes?
[23:53:20] <Valen> spindle power feedback is doing that automagically for you
[23:53:23] <Guest90838> yes! you are the feedback
[23:53:29] <andypugh> Well, yes, but adaptive feed means you fon't need ears.
[23:53:30] <Guest90838> in that case
[23:53:32] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, is that how you warm up your bbq?
[23:53:53] <JT-Shop> what's that Tom_itx ?
[23:53:59] <Tom_itx> the pic
[23:54:01] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I reckon you could braze that cutter back together, it still looks sharp.
[23:54:16] <Guest90838> Those two cutters in that pic are missing ends ...
[23:54:22] <JT-Shop> not really sharp any more
[23:54:44] <Guest90838> you'd need another two broken in just the same spots though ??
[23:54:58] <JT-Shop> I could make a rotary broach from the upper part...
[23:55:21] <Guest90838> reduced shank huh ?
[23:55:44] <JT-Shop> oh yea Kate Bush Coffee Homeground... I like that one
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[23:59:02] <Guest90838> so,
[23:59:24] * JT-Shop wanders inside to strap on the feed bag