#emc | Logs for 2011-07-06

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[00:10:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: run over it in a monster truck?
[00:11:25] <Tom_itx> just take aim with a 50 cal at it
[00:12:25] <Jymmm> he said hillbilly, wouldn't that be buckshot?
[00:12:37] <Jymmm> or rock salt
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[00:44:00] <tom3p> my new d510mo is offline and i want to use a usb thumb to get updates. is there a list to refer to?
[00:44:56] <tom3p> i can only guess that http://linuxcnc.org/emc2/dists/lucid/ is >all< and not >updates<
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[03:02:34] <West0n> Anyone here use servos?
[03:02:56] <West0n> I am thinking of trying to use cordless drill motors in a servo system for a cnc
[03:03:15] <West0n> The encoder should compensate for the backlash in the gearbox
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[03:03:38] <elmo40> encoders don't compensate anything. only tell the computer what went wrong :P
[03:03:53] <West0n> In a control loop they do
[03:04:09] <West0n> The gearbox is in the control loop and gets compensated for
[03:04:12] <jdhNC> then you need two encoders per axis
[03:04:51] <elmo40> so you want to use a sloppy motor AND a gearbox with backlash connected to an encoder? you think this will solve the issue? enjoy ;)
[03:05:21] <jdhNC> so, first you overshoot, then you make up for it by going the other direction, where you overshoot again?
[03:06:03] <elmo40> sounds like fun
[03:06:21] <jdhNC> oscillation is fun
[03:06:22] <elmo40> I can't wait to see a circle pocket ;)
[03:06:37] <jdhNC> we all want cheap servos
[03:06:49] <jdhNC> well, I do... anybody else?
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[03:07:16] <Tom_itx> naw i wanna pay as much as possible
[03:07:28] <jdhNC> could you buy me three then?
[03:07:33] <elmo40> me too!
[03:07:37] <Tom_itx> i ordered 4
[03:07:37] <Jymmm> NOTHING truly makes up for mechanical precision, electronics just kinda mask whatever underlining issue there may be.
[03:07:47] <Eartaker> what are we ordering ill take 6
[03:07:55] <elmo40> only 6?
[03:07:56] <jdhNC> I got an email about 2 mins ago saying grizzly finally shipped my mill
[03:07:57] <Jymmm> Eartaker: pregnancy test
[03:08:00] <Eartaker> lol
[03:08:00] <elmo40> hexapod, eh?
[03:08:14] <jdhNC> they still haven't fixed the price though.
[03:08:23] <Tom_itx> Eartaker, you still need 6?
[03:08:24] <Eartaker> G0704?
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[03:08:26] <Tom_itx> one for each?
[03:08:44] <jdhNC> Ear: yeah, finally (original order Dec. 12)
[03:08:48] <Eartaker> lol nah im good tom
[03:08:52] <Tom_itx> heh
[03:09:14] <Eartaker> jdhNC, nice
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[03:09:33] <Eartaker> I need a rotary index
[03:09:35] <Tom_itx> it sux they jacked you on the price
[03:09:45] <jdhNC> they will fix it
[03:09:56] <Tom_itx> oh, what's wrong with their collet set?
[03:10:02] <Tom_itx> just crappy?
[03:10:12] <jdhNC> or I'll cancel the CC charge and let them come and pick it up.
[03:10:18] <Eartaker> collet set?
[03:10:28] <elmo40> ER collets?
[03:10:50] <Eartaker> 5C collets?
[03:10:59] <elmo40> so, my new place of employment... all BIG SHIT! our machines are only CAT50.
[03:11:01] <Tom_itx> i think it was him commenting on the grizzly collets earlier
[03:11:06] <Eartaker> ahh
[03:11:19] <Tom_itx> elmo40, yeah we had 40 and 50 taper
[03:11:31] <Eartaker> heh... R8 for me :-P
[03:12:04] <Tom_itx> only one with a palley changer
[03:12:04] <elmo40> we are getting a new lathe, capable of holding 80,000Lbs! just nuts!
[03:12:23] <Eartaker> wtf are you making there?
[03:12:41] <Tom_itx> pallet*
[03:12:53] <Tom_itx> 2 toumbstones
[03:14:58] <elmo40> Eartaker: have you seen steel mills? or the large gravel/dirt drums? we make stuff for that
[03:15:04] <toastyde1th> yeah, i was going to say
[03:15:17] <toastyde1th> the only people who rate lathes in pounds are shops that make rolls
[03:15:18] <elmo40> when the ore is mined it gets crushed in a huge iron oscillator. we make those
[03:15:27] <Tom_itx> ahh
[03:15:30] <Tom_itx> yeah those are big
[03:15:42] <Tom_itx> not cast?
[03:15:53] <elmo40> then it goes through a perforated drum, 20feet in dia and 50feet long. we make those as well
[03:15:54] <toastyde1th> forged usually
[03:16:24] <Eartaker> nice
[03:16:38] <elmo40> well, the centre 'hammer' is a cast piece, but everything else is machined to a shine ;)
[03:16:57] <Tom_itx> so the rock can beat it all to crap.
[03:17:08] <elmo40> it is cast, just not cast iron ;) some hard nickel mixed alloy
[03:17:20] <elmo40> a bitch to turn!
[03:17:25] <Eartaker> any ideas on how to mark and angle on a round piece without having an index?
[03:17:30] <Tom_itx> does it work harden easily?
[03:17:42] <Eartaker> I have a hole on the seide and need another hole at a 45deg
[03:17:46] <Eartaker> side
[03:17:58] <Tom_itx> yeah i have a similar issue
[03:18:21] <Tom_itx> i want to make a touch probe but no good way to index 120 deg for the holes
[03:18:27] <Eartaker> yeah
[03:18:28] <toastyde1th> Eartaker, drill the holes in square stock
[03:18:30] <toastyde1th> turn it round
[03:19:19] <Eartaker> toasty wish I would have thought of that before I turned this piece down
[03:19:35] <Eartaker> all need are the holes and its done
[03:19:40] <toastyde1th> make a two part clamp in wood or aluminum
[03:20:12] <toastyde1th> square clamp
[03:20:15] <Tom_itx> i'll come up with some sort of fixture since i don't have an indexer
[03:20:15] <toastyde1th> drill
[03:20:30] <elmo40> Eartaker: measure it... you know the Dia, find the location for 45deg and measure it with a tape.
[03:20:44] <toastyde1th> another option is to make a pin fixture
[03:20:48] <toastyde1th> using compression pins, which are cheap
[03:20:49] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:20:57] <Valen> backlash in a servo system will own you
[03:21:05] <Eartaker> hmm
[03:21:13] <Valen> we are using linear scales for positioning on our mill
[03:21:30] <Valen> if there is any backlash the thing oscillates and generally makes horrible noises
[03:21:48] <elmo40> Valen: should never oscillate
[03:21:53] <Valen> because the motor will be moving but the system is getting no feedback about it, so it gives it more power
[03:21:57] <elmo40> all our machines have linear scales on the X
[03:22:12] <elmo40> when it goes sloppy it gives an error and stops :P
[03:22:13] <Valen> then it runs out of the backlash and the motor is doing a bazillion rpm
[03:22:17] <Eartaker> this is what im working on... im on shee 5
[03:22:20] <Valen> so it overshoots
[03:22:20] <Eartaker> sheet 5
[03:22:21] <Eartaker> <Valen> backlash in a servo system will own you
[03:22:21] <Eartaker> <Eartaker> hmm
[03:22:21] <Eartaker> <Valen> we are using linear scales for positioning on our mill
[03:22:21] <Eartaker> <Valen> if there is any backlash the thing oscillates and generally makes horrible noises
[03:22:24] <Eartaker> oops
[03:22:33] <Eartaker> http://modelenginenews.org/plans/BollAero18.pdf
[03:22:43] <elmo40> tiny!
[03:22:50] <elmo40> we couldn't even make a part that small, lol
[03:22:51] <Valen> you can tune it to minimise it but its bad
[03:23:16] <Valen> if you must use a sloppy transmission put an encoder on the motor and on the axis
[03:23:17] <elmo40> our tables use 3/4" threads for hold downs :P
[03:23:59] <Valen> must be pretty crappy machines if they cant hold a tolerence of an inch
[03:24:22] <Valen> it might be silly to do so, but I imagine that it'd be able to make it
[03:39:15] <elmo40> Eartaker: interesting, they use 2024 T3 for the connecting rod. I would much rather use an H-style Titanium piece. it would be thinner and lighter. ;)
[03:39:54] <Tom_itx> it bangs the crank harder too
[03:40:12] <Tom_itx> we tried some in race engines and got away from them
[03:40:37] <elmo40> so the Al absorbs the impact? it is 'softer' ?
[03:40:45] <Tom_itx> moreso than ti
[03:40:49] <elmo40> I see
[03:41:00] <Tom_itx> these were small 2 stroke like that only bigger than his
[03:41:02] <elmo40> so, make the bearing areas out of better material
[03:41:19] <Eartaker> elmo40, im using 7075 T6 for everything
[03:41:30] <Tom_itx> yeah that would work
[03:41:31] <elmo40> k
[03:41:54] <Tom_itx> we replaced the crank bearing housing with a turned 7075 piece
[03:42:09] <elmo40> I am not a member... how can I get the plans for the 'Sparey" In-line Twin? :)
[03:48:15] <Eartaker> you have to buy the dvd... im not a member either
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[04:24:24] <ssi> Eartaker: wrap a strip of paper around your cylinder, mark where it overlaps
[04:24:48] <ssi> measure it (that's your circumference), divide by 8 and mark that distance
[04:24:57] <ssi> then use the paper strip to mark your holes 45 degrees apart
[04:27:43] <Eartaker> ssi, I got it now
[04:28:20] <Eartaker> I drew a circle. and marked it then adjusted the part over it and scribed it
[04:29:10] <ssi> :D
[04:29:30] <ssi> spindex or rotab makes life more gooder from here on out
[04:29:46] <Eartaker> yeah... i need one
[04:30:14] <ssi> I want to build some kind of tiny engine :P
[04:32:27] <Eartaker> this it my first one
[04:32:42] <Eartaker> its simple just takes a tittle time
[04:33:46] <ssi> yea
[04:34:46] <ssi> I love the scale radials people build
[04:34:57] <ssi> I've never seen anyone do a scale lycoming flat four... that'd be fun
[04:36:54] <ssi> http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/PK85a.jpg
[04:36:58] <ssi> :D now we're cookin
[04:37:32] <Eartaker> I want a scale v8
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[04:41:31] <Valen> where do you get the 7075 from? people here look at you funny when you ask
[04:43:00] <Valen> have you thought about making the conrod "wiggly" if you want some shock absorbtion
[04:44:41] <ssi> http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/KnappCastingPW.jpg
[04:44:44] <ssi> amazing what people do
[04:45:27] <Eartaker> im close to a boeing plant so its everywhere
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[04:49:13] <Valen> Eartaker: don't spose shipping some to australia would be possible? ;->
[04:49:31] <Valen> ssi that is one complex bit of sand
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[05:24:11] <Jymmm> Valen: You an aussie?
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[05:26:40] <Valen> yeah
[05:27:11] <Jymmm> Oh, I guess I just didn't realize that is all.
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[06:42:08] <mazafaka_> ssi: try to normalize it with food. avoid fattty fried stuff and so forth
[06:43:12] <mazafaka_> don't think it's because of age or so, it's because of injustice!
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[06:49:05] <Loetmichel> good morning
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[06:54:02] <mazafaka_> goo' mornin'
[06:54:16] <theos> morning
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[07:12:56] <nicko> 'ello all
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[07:20:15] <mazafaka_> 'ello a'
[07:20:56] * mazafaka_ becomes fatty since he starts to know more
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[07:33:39] <Grandixximo> To activate Z compesation on tools after manually loaded with M6 Tx i should have G43 command to read the compensation in the tool.tbl file???
[07:34:07] <Grandixximo> Is this the right way to activate tool compensation?
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[08:03:54] <Grandixximo> should i write G43 H or only G43?
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[08:34:27] <Tom_itx> Grandixximo i think you should specify the offset location as well
[08:34:31] <Tom_itx> 'H'
[08:36:18] <Grandixximo> I want to take the offset from tool table
[08:36:22] <Grandixximo> and i have read on the forum
[08:36:38] <Grandixximo> that if you do not specify H it will keep the offset of the current tool
[08:36:50] <Grandixximo> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,20/id,10350
[08:36:57] <Grandixximo> G43 without a H-word will apply the offset of the currently installed tool.
[08:37:39] <Tom_itx> ok
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[08:55:01] <Grandixximo> I'm working with glade VCP and python on the touchy interface, i have a problem, the keyboard is disabled in some way in the interface
[08:55:06] <Grandixximo> i don't understand how
[08:55:12] <Grandixximo> keyboard does not work
[08:55:35] <Grandixximo> Anyone knows how to enable keyboard in touchy interface?
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[09:15:50] <Grandixximo> I'm working with glade VCP and python on the touchy interface, i have a problem, the keyboard is disabled in some way in the interface
[09:15:56] <Grandixximo> i don't understand how
[09:15:59] <Grandixximo> keyboard does not work
[09:16:03] <Grandixximo> Anyone knows how to enable keyboard in touchy interface?
[09:27:36] <Valen> watch the position of your mouse
[09:31:21] <Grandixximo> what you mean?
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[10:17:20] <jthornton> why do you want a keyboard with a touch screen?
[10:17:35] <jthornton> oh heck he is gone
[10:19:41] <psha[work]> jthornton: touchy is nice even for mouse
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[10:20:18] <jthornton> hi psha[work]
[10:20:37] <cncbasher> hi all
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[10:52:41] <psha[work]> jthornton: hi
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[12:33:57] <skunkworks> Well - looks like one of the drives was flakey
[12:43:11] <skunkworks> y axis really started failing on startup, It would just drop. The mesa card was sending out 10 saying 'hey move the other way!'
[12:43:27] <skunkworks> we swapped it out with one of our extras and so far so good.
[12:43:33] <skunkworks> *10v
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[12:55:35] <skunkworks> I think in the proccess of trouble shooting - one of the couplers slipped in the y axis. Home was not where it should have been.
[12:55:50] <skunkworks> I don't understand why they used them
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[12:57:44] <skunkworks> in the y drive train there are 3 of these type of couplers http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/coupling.JPG
[12:59:23] <skunkworks> but the touch probe made it easy to re-calibrate home - just have to keep an eye on it. we do have replacements (they are little aluminum tapered pieces)
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[13:20:54] <JT-Shop> some kind of compression coupling?
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[13:21:09] <skunkworks> logger[psha]:
[13:21:37] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: yes
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[13:37:12] <jimbo132> Picking up a YAM 14x30 gap bed CNC lathe today it has an AH HA controller, gecko drives, servos and encoders. It also has an encoder on the spindle. looking at changing to emc2.
[13:38:24] <skunkworks> sweet
[13:40:52] <jimbo132> Can you setup emc2 to operate in amanual mode with dual encoders. Carraige and crosslide.
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[13:50:06] <cradek> do you mean one jog wheel per axis? sure.
[13:50:15] <cradek> VERY useful for a lathe I bet
[13:50:32] <cradek> I intend to do that to mine ... someday
[13:51:54] <jdhNC> fly-by-wire turning
[13:53:22] <jdhNC> anyone have a .us source for the tiny V belts on 9x20 lathes?
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[14:11:11] <jimbo132> Is there a way to automate a g33 on a single button (feed per rev) to simulate Manual turning.
[14:11:40] <psha[work]> jimbo132: run MDI command on single button?
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[14:12:30] <cradek> can you be more specific about what you want it to do?
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[14:14:09] <JT-Work> jimbo132: you can have a button execute a mdi command, is that what you mean?
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[14:17:40] <jimbo132> I am looking to make emc to work in CNC and also in manual mode. IE use your dual encoders to move carriage and slide, touch work, dial in the amount of material to remove and then press button to start turn.
[14:20:19] <cradek> actually continuous jog works pretty well for that, and it's trivial to use
[14:27:08] <jimbo132> Makes sense. Use a switch to engauge SPDT up carriage, Down crosslide. I am looking for something that a non cnc person can use. Thanks.
[14:27:54] <cradek> I like center-off toggles with momentary in both directions
[14:28:02] <cradek> mount one horizontally for Z and vertically for X
[14:28:25] <cradek> then you will never confuse them or go the wrong way
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[14:33:59] <jimbo132> cradek: makes sense.
[14:34:33] <cradek> on my mill I have vertical for Z, horizontal for X, and halfway in between (rotated 45) for Y
[14:35:03] <cradek> I've never jogged the wrong way using them
[14:35:45] <cradek> my previous mill had + and - buttons, and another one that cycled X->Y->Z->X->... and it was just plain awful
[14:39:54] <jimbo132> cradek: on my mill I used an encoder and rotary switch to select axis. I will look at the jog switches as well.
[14:40:30] <jimbo132> Can't have enough switches and stuff.
[14:45:15] <cradek> rotary is better than xyzxyzx button
[14:48:37] <jdhNC> MPG per axis with haptic feedback based on servo current
[14:50:16] <ssi> I like that idea
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[15:18:07] <jdhNC> connor: did you get a (working) tracking number for your mill?
[15:18:16] <Connor> yea.
[15:18:34] <Connor> Mine was via saia.com
[15:18:57] <jdhNC> I got a shipping email last night (ups ltl). The number still doesn't track
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[15:19:47] <jdhNC> and no response to two emails about them fixing the price.
[15:20:03] <Connor> Callem
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[15:20:21] <jdhNC> yeah... that's so last century though
[15:20:39] <Connor> Yea, but, sometimes, you have too.. I almost always get better response these days.
[15:20:47] <Connor> Email is so impersonal.
[15:21:01] <jdhNC> it should be efficient though
[15:21:27] <jdhNC> they have had since friday afternoon to think about responding
[15:21:59] <Connor> Yea, but.. who knows.. spam filters... holidays.. lord only knows if they got it.
[15:22:53] <jdhNC> I'll give them until this afternoon
[15:23:02] <jdhNC> I'd hate to have to refuse delivery
[15:23:28] <Connor> Yea, no joke.. especially after waiting all this time.. how much did the over charge you?
[15:23:38] <jdhNC> almost $200
[15:23:59] <Connor> I noticed they raised the price of it a few weeks ago.
[15:24:26] <jdhNC> I'd settle for a inhouse credit
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[15:30:49] <MrUnshine> hmm, could i make a "straight edge" or prism or whatever for scraping out of anything or is cast iron just plainly the best material for it ? :)
[15:35:55] <ssi> granite's better
[15:36:03] <ssi> but cast iron is easier to make yourself
[15:36:20] <ssi> just want something that's dimensionally stable
[15:36:25] <jdhNC> a granite scraper?
[15:39:04] <MrUnshine> no a prism
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[15:40:51] <willburrrr2003> good morning all :)
[15:41:44] <MrUnshine> i wonder what a camelback is named in swedish :P
[15:42:15] <willburrrr2003> what determines the max frequency genereated in the stepgen module?
[15:44:29] <cradek> you can have at most one step per base period run
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[15:51:50] <willburrrr2003> so if I had a base period of say 8000ns, then every 8000ns it would generate an output pulse...if I was telling to go max speed?
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[15:54:26] <ktchk> Hi kimk
[15:55:45] <willburrrr2003> I am trying to unerstand the process by which I can set an output frequency for my spindle to 50khz at max speed using the stepgen module....so trying to wrap my brain around all these new concepts ;)
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[15:56:51] <cradek> 50 kHz is pretty fast but might be doable
[15:57:45] <willburrrr2003> just remembered I am not running off the base time, I am running my signal off the sevo time at the moment
[15:58:06] <cradek> you definitely need a base thread to get that fast
[15:58:29] <cradek> do you have just bare parport, or do you have some smart hardware?
[15:59:40] <willburrrr2003> I am taking the pin straight out of the parport into to the c6 speed controller, it takes a freq input. 50khz is max freq input.
[16:00:31] <KimK> ktchk: Hi, how are you?
[16:00:32] <cradek> ok then 20000 base thread it is
[16:01:01] <ktchk> kimk: I just email the latest zh_HK.po to you.
[16:01:34] <KimK> ktchk: Excellent, thank you, I'll watch for it.
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[16:04:00] <KimK> ktchk: OK, it has arrived. Thanks!
[16:04:33] <ktchk> kimk: the emcinfo of the wiki build up of the emc-dev "git checkout v2.5.0" must be git checkout v2.5.0-pre0" to download the source
[16:08:57] <KimK> ktchk: Well, right now we are still on "v2.5_branch", we don't have any 2.5.x releases, so I think "v2.5.0-pre0" is automatically assumed by the system. If you're interested in the latest 2.5 (still unreleased), try "v2.5_branch".
[16:10:09] <ktchk> kimk: checkout 2.5.0 does not find anything
[16:10:39] <willburrrr2003> Cradek: how do I take that 20000 base period and get it to become 50khz on my output pin through the stepgen?
[16:10:41] <KimK> That makes sense, since we haven't released a 2.5.0 yet
[16:11:16] <KimK> ktchk: That makes sense, since we haven't released a 2.5.0 yet
[16:11:18] <cradek> willburrrr2003: read the stepgen man page regarding velocity mode
[16:11:38] <willburrrr2003> ok pulling that man page up now
[16:12:21] <ktchk> kimk: "git checkout 2.5_branch" will be the latest version?
[16:12:23] <cradek> you will use velocity-cmd and position-scale
[16:12:39] <cradek> you can scale it so cmd is in rpm or rps or whatever you need
[16:12:58] <skunkworks> Dad said the k&t started no problems this morning! Yay
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[16:15:57] <KimK> ktchk: Correct. Or, at least it will be the latest version of 2.5, which will be the next version with major changes to be released. There is also "master", which is assumed will eventually become 2.6, and an assortment of other versions/branches.
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[16:16:45] <willburrrr2003> my setup is set to velocity mode, and type 0 for step/dir function, and I am running it though scale (looking for 10v at speed command of 1250 , 10/1250= .008 so I set .008 as my scale gain. but when I set speed to 1250 and turn it on I only get an output voltage of about .45v... not the 10v I am expecting. which is why I am trying to learn more about how all this works) still reading the man
[16:16:47] <KimK> ktchk: (But it's spelled with a v. "git checkout v2.5_branch")
[16:17:16] <ktchk> kimk: just test it thanks
[16:18:53] <KimK> ktchk: OK, great. Thanks again for your work. I'm making good progress on the docs, so I hope to commit your file soon. Thanks for sending the updated version, I'll commit that instead.
[16:19:28] <ktchk> KImk: welcome
[16:19:31] <cradek> willburrrr2003: it's not very clear to me how scale should be set for the frequency you want. check with halscope to see what frequency you are getting, and try changing scale accordingly
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[16:21:22] <KimK> willburrrr2003: Sorry if I missed the beginning of what you're working on, but 0 to +10? I thought you wanted a frequency or PWM output. Is there a frequency or PWM to analog converter involved here too?
[16:22:33] <skunkworks> cradek: the amc drive seemed to just not work some times. It would physically recieve 10v from the mesa card (emc saying - GO -Damn it!!) and nothing would happen. Except for the following error. :)
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[16:23:34] <KimK> skunkworks: What did you do to fix it?
[16:23:45] <willburrrr2003> KimK: My minilathe requires a 0-10v signal to set the speed, I have a c6 speed controller that takes an freq input from my parport, and converts it to 0-10v signal. I am trying to figure out how to get my output freq on the parport to be 50khz at max spindle speed
[16:23:59] <skunkworks> KimK: replaced the amp :)
[16:24:23] <skunkworks> If the problem does go away - we are going to look at the amp harder - maybe cold solder joints or such
[16:25:06] <KimK> willburrrr2003: Is there a link to a data sheet on your c6 speed controller?
[16:25:22] <skunkworks> this is awesome! (mailing list) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQO3IkQ0Lo
[16:25:27] <willburrrr2003> Cradek: will try and get my halscope to give me some useful information...lastnight I didn't see a waveform just a litle spike that drifts left to righ on the screen
[16:25:33] <KimK> skunkworks: Sounds like you've got it in the bag, congrats!
[16:26:15] <skunkworks> Hope so. kinda was a pain until it really stopped working :O
[16:27:20] <willburrrr2003> kimK: here is the link http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C6R6_User_Manual.pdf
[16:27:29] <archivist_emc> skunkworks, was just watching that!
[16:28:15] <willburrrr2003> Cradek, was going to read up on my halcop and get it figured out so I know how to use it right for situations just like this ;)
[16:28:40] <cradek> what exact kind of signal does your device want?
[16:28:58] <cradek> when you have lower than max frequency you will have small duty cycle with stepgen (obviously - it's generating steps)
[16:29:20] <cradek> if your device is frequency dependent and expects 50% duty cycle it'll be quite confused
[16:30:18] <willburrrr2003> my c6 board is expecting a frequency of 50khz for max speed
[16:30:34] <cradek> ok I know that - what does it expect for half speed?
[16:30:59] <willburrrr2003> half speed should be 25khz I think
[16:31:11] <cradek> what duty cycle?
[16:32:37] <KimK> willburrrr2003: cradek: This card expects 25kHz to deliver +10V out. There is a pot for trimming, but it doesn't say how much adjustment range there is. I'll go back and look for duty cycle, but I imagine anything near 50/50 would be fine.
[16:32:54] <cradek> ok
[16:33:16] <cradek> my point is that stepgen isn't going to give you anything like 50% duty cycle
[16:33:24] <cradek> it gives pulses at a certain frequency
[16:33:43] <willburrrr2003> I was thinking it was the 3usec min on state pulse width
[16:34:12] <skunkworks> according to this http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C6R6_User_Manual.pdf
[16:34:12] <willburrrr2003> and that on time doesn't have to equal off time?
[16:34:23] <skunkworks> it is 25khz for 10v
[16:36:00] <skunkworks> they even have a hal file http://cnc4pc.com/Files/EMC2.txt
[16:36:43] <willburrrr2003> the hal file is not right, worked through that with JT-shop to oget it to work
[16:37:07] <willburrrr2003> Now just trying to adjust it right
[16:38:45] <willburrrr2003> my numbers to get it to work in the scale module are way off from what the section on 233 of integrators manual says to should be with the calculation there....
[16:39:32] <willburrrr2003> the calculation says my scale gain should be .008, and my actual in the "working" config is more like 0.89
[16:40:08] <KimK> willburrrr2003: cradek: Would siggen be a better choice than stepgen in this particular case?
[16:40:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Interesting, I think I just found a purpose for my PicoITX... http://vortexbox.org/about/
[16:40:34] <cradek> I can't tell from the docs whether it cares about duty cycle
[16:41:05] <willburrrr2003> I don't know, I am still learning all this stuff...haven't even got to siggen yet hehe
[16:41:09] <cradek> if it's meant for mach, it probably means "step rate" when it says "frequency", and the stepgen setup is perfectly fine
[16:41:17] <jdhNC> Insufficient pulse width. It is possible
[16:41:17] <jdhNC> that the signal pulse width is not
[16:41:17] <jdhNC> enough to activate the optocouplers.
[16:41:34] <cradek> aha, more evidence agreeing
[16:41:36] <cradek> good find jdhNC
[16:41:41] <jdhNC> then gives directions to change pulse length in mach
[16:41:54] <cradek> so stepgen probably is the right thing to drive it
[16:42:20] <willburrrr2003> from an example they have on their webpage for setting up mach3, the say no less tat us, and no more than 5us
[16:42:22] <cradek> the step/dir output of stepgen is probably the only kind of signal mach can generate on the parport
[16:43:14] <willburrrr2003> sorry fumbly fingers, no less than 3us, and no more than 5us for te on signal
[16:45:46] <KimK> man siggen says siggen can put out a square wave, if that would help.
[16:45:57] <willburrrr2003> BTW I appreciate all you guys giving help, input, and insight on this I am working hard to not only learn all this but to understand what I am doing and wy it makes things work as well
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[16:50:59] <willburrrr2003> finally found the detailed section in integrators manual on stepgen, now to read it all hehe
[16:51:02] <KimK> I guess it wouldn't matter, so long as the LED on-time is adequate. Never mind.
[16:51:58] <willburrrr2003> I am sure this section of the man page will tell me how to chnge the on time? here's hoping ;)
[16:57:43] <KimK> willburrrr2003: Yes, I agree with you, the 3us minimum on-state is the lower limit. So 25kHz is 40us. Give it 10 to 20us on-time and you should be fine. What's your base thread speed?
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[17:08:36] <willburrrr2003> not sure kim, forgot to write it down before I left for work this morning
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[17:11:14] <willburrrr2003> ok, seems with stepgen tat steplen is the on time, and I remember I have that set for 20000
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[17:12:20] <willburrrr2003> page 72 of the integrators manual has a great diagram of stepgen timing for mode 0, shows what each cmponent of stepgen does for the ignal
[17:12:47] <IchGuckLive> Hi all tomorrow Bullrun in Pamplona Spain the town is full of CRAZY US Boys
[17:12:50] <willburrrr2003> I am mistaken, it is dirhold and dirsetup I think that are set at 20000
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[17:15:52] <willburrrr2003> just looked up the stepgen settings I used stepgen.2.position-scale 1 , stepgen.2.maxvel 1250 , stepgen.2. steplen = 1 , stepgen.2.stepspace 0 , stepgen.2.dirhold 20000 ,, stepgen.2.dirsetup 20000 , stepgen.2.maxaccel 200
[17:16:47] <willburrrr2003> steplen being the on time of the signal, should I raise that number for a longer on time?
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[18:43:59] <Connor> Anyone do anything with Hall Effect sensors? I'm looking for a schem to do a autoswitch when current is applied to a secondary device, and then turn off 5-7 seconds after the current goes away.
[18:45:54] <jdhNC> I have a time delay relay that does that, kind of.
[18:46:08] <Connor> I'll be using a SSR.
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[18:52:25] <ssi> I bought a bunch of SSRs (for quite a lot of money) to try to do a complex emc controlled spindle fwd/rev scheme
[18:52:38] <ssi> but I never used them, cause I went VFD soon after... much much much easier
[18:53:17] <Xolotl4> which one is the best touch screen for touchy?
[18:53:19] <ssi> but to your question... you could probably do a simple 555 timer one-shot
[18:53:41] <ssi> or a more complex (but easier for someone like me to implement) microcontroller
[18:54:28] <cradek> Xolotl4: mine is an Elo "intellitouch" technology screen and I am very happy with it
[18:54:47] <cradek> (surface acoustic wave)
[18:54:54] <cradek> it is glass so it holds up around oil/coolant
[18:55:03] <cradek> also does not scratch easily
[18:55:25] <cradek> the only problem is if you leave a wet coolant-fingerprint on it, it thinks that spot is pressed until you wipe it off
[18:55:46] <cradek> this has not caused me too much trouble, and I would happily use the same screen again
[18:56:03] <Xolotl4> do you know the model?
[18:56:08] <cradek> no
[18:56:29] <cradek> it's a panel mount model of "intellitouch" usb
[18:56:34] <cradek> it might not be current production
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[18:57:14] <cradek> http://www.elotouch.com/Technologies/IntelliTouch/default.asp
[18:57:28] <willburrrr2003> ok, I think I got it right in my head... stepgen's max freq is 1,000,000,000/(steplen+stepspace) with steplen the peak of the wave, and stepspace the valley. so If I set steplen to 40000, and stepspace to 0 I get a max freq of 25khz out from the stepgen
[18:57:30] <cradek> the exact model doesn't matter
[18:57:57] <Xolotl4> so is not a full monitor, just a sensitive glass cover?
[18:58:14] <cradek> mine is a full panel mount touchscreen with lcd display
[18:59:24] <Xolotl4> do you have some trouble with the linux driver?
[18:59:52] <cradek> it took me a bit of futzing to get it working correctly
[19:00:06] <cradek> it works right away when you plug it in, but is upside-down or backward or something
[19:01:50] <Connor> Do I even need a 555 ? Could I not simply use a Cap tied to the base of the main transisitor to hold the state until it's draiend.
[19:02:00] <ssi> perhaps!
[19:02:16] <andypugh> My touchscreen has the X and Y switched by default. It took some tinkering with Xorg.conf to get it right.
[19:02:46] <andypugh> Connor: What's the application? Can't you do it with a HAL oneshot or similar?
[19:03:26] <Connor> non CNC related.
[19:03:49] <Connor> this is a autoswitch for vacuum for my shop.. Will use with Drill Press and Bandsaw.
[19:04:18] <Xolotl4> thanks for the info
[19:04:31] <cradek> welcome
[19:04:53] <Connor> What sucks is I don't even have my hall effect sensor yet.. it'll be this coming Monday before I get it.. so, I need to simulate that with a button or something.. I guess I can play with a transistor and cap and see what I can come up with.
[19:05:05] <ssi> you're gonna try to use the hall effect to do what, detect motor motion?
[19:05:11] <ssi> or current
[19:05:13] <Connor> No. Current.
[19:05:32] <ssi> I'd probably be inclined to just do a high-impedance voltage switch
[19:05:38] <ssi> if there's voltage across the main power switch, then it's not running
[19:05:43] <ssi> if no voltage across the switch, it's running
[19:06:19] <Connor> I want the current detection to be passive, so, later on, I can build additional detectors for other equipment.
[19:07:13] <andypugh> They both sound like noisy machines....
[19:07:21] <Connor> Looks like I need to break out my breadboard and play with caps and transistors.
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[19:07:33] <Connor> andypugh: Noisy ?
[19:07:35] <andypugh> Of course, the flaw with that unspoken plan is that the vaccuum will latch itself on.
[19:07:59] <ssi> lololol
[19:09:02] <andypugh> Connor: http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Strip-Protector-Autoswitching-Technology/dp/B0006PUDQK
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[19:09:46] <Connor> Why does everyone do that? Point me to something that already exists...
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[19:10:00] <andypugh> Trying to save you trouble.
[19:10:05] <Connor> I know they exist.. I could have purchased one that's close to the what I want to do.
[19:10:12] <ssi> cause most people assume that we tinker because we're trying to solve problems
[19:10:23] <ssi> but sometimes one must tinker purely to tinker :D
[19:10:24] <Connor> It's not any trouble.. I like doing these kinds of projects
[19:10:46] <Connor> and, I want additional features that most of those autoswitches don't have.
[19:10:47] <andypugh> I wasn't suggesting you use it, I was suggesting that you cannibalise it for parts.
[19:11:32] <Connor> Well, I have the enclosure, the outlets installed in enlosure, the SSR, and a simple 120v to 5v PSU I built.
[19:11:45] <andypugh> There is probably an important turning point in life the first time you buy something intending to destroy it for parts as soon as you get home :-)
[19:11:54] <jdhNC> how about a current shunt and an adc
[19:11:58] <ssi> hahaha
[19:12:00] <Connor> The idea is, the Vacuum is powered from 1 circuit, the other devices use a different circuit.. so, the unit has too power plugs.
[19:12:28] <ssi> I bought a couple $6 harbor freight vibrating sanders once upon a time
[19:12:38] <ssi> the idea being to bolt drums onto them and make cheap vibratory tumblers
[19:12:44] <ssi> worked ok... noisy as hell
[19:12:54] <ssi> but the sanders running continuously managed to melt themselves into non-working
[19:13:00] <Connor> andypugh: Yup.. been their.. I purchased a perfectly good key-code dead bolt..Threw away everything but the mechanical motor part and used it with my custom RFID entry system. :)
[19:13:00] <ssi> fortunately they didn't melt themselves into a house fire
[19:13:53] <andypugh> Connor: Do you have the chip implanted under your skin too?
[19:15:00] <Connor> No.
[19:15:11] <Connor> Just a RFID tag on my keyring.
[19:15:41] <Connor> Was thinking about sewing one each of my jacket sleeves though.
[19:16:16] <andypugh> Connor: It would reduce the probability of getting locked out.
[19:16:33] <Connor> Has a keypad too.
[19:16:39] <Connor> and is on battery backup.
[19:16:45] <Connor> and has standard keylock as well.
[19:16:53] <andypugh> (Whereas an implanted one completely elimaninates it, assuming 100% reliablilty)
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[19:37:17] <jdhNC> grizzly says they will issue my $193 refund today.
[19:38:50] <willburrrr2003> jdhNC, what are you etting refunded for?
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[19:57:17] <FinboySlick> willburrrr2003: A very large bear!
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[19:59:36] <FinboySlick> Seriously though, I think Grizzly makes mostly vises no?
[20:00:08] <ssi> yeah
[20:00:11] <FinboySlick> Oh my, no, okay. They make lots of stuff.
[20:00:16] <ssi> but some of their vises come with machines attached
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[20:05:31] <Connor> Playing around with a 1000uf cap and a voltage divider and a npn transistor, I can adjust the decay of the LED and thus adjust the "delay"
[20:05:40] <Connor> I think that'll work fine.. no need for a 555 chip.
[20:06:30] <Connor> and from what I can tell with the hall effect, if it detects a current, it produces sends out 5v or so.. and when the magnetic field goes away, it stops.
[20:07:34] <andypugh> You probably don't need a hall sensor, why not use a coil of wire wrapped a few times round one conductor?
[20:11:23] <MrUnshine> hmm i wonder if i need to anneal the mill part, but im afraid it will warp on me :/
[20:12:48] <MrUnshine> hell i would be better of making a new mill from scratch then trying to make this mill better :P
[20:12:57] <andypugh> I know the feeling.
[20:13:55] <MrUnshine> its to freakin hard to scrape
[20:14:01] <MrUnshine> just cant get the scraper to take any :/
[20:15:26] <ssi> what mill
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[20:16:31] <MrUnshine> seig X1
[20:16:47] <MrUnshine> sieg?
[20:26:11] <MrUnshine> "because the annealing process tends to warp castings slightly" doesnt sound good :/
[20:27:43] <andypugh> They should be finish-grinding after annealing.
[20:28:25] <MrUnshine> well hard to grind inside the dovetails
[20:29:23] <andypugh> That's their job.
[20:29:51] <MrUnshine> well they didnt do it :)
[20:29:53] <MrUnshine> aparently
[20:30:04] <MrUnshine> as it has hardspots that tool steel cant move on it
[20:30:12] <andypugh> Hence you being able to afford the toy machine tool in question, to an extent.
[20:30:44] <andypugh> Guess why I am currently converting a Harrison miller?
[20:31:17] <andypugh> Because I have realsied that my Sieg-a-like will never be any good,
[20:31:52] <MrUnshine> =)
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[20:32:21] <MrUnshine> ofc, question is, how much can it warp
[20:32:29] <MrUnshine> is it in the thousands, hundreds, tenths ...
[20:33:00] <andypugh> That depends on the material and how careful they were with the heat treatment.
[20:33:59] <MrUnshine> mm true
[20:34:55] <andypugh> Could easily be tenths, but almost certainly isn't.
[20:36:55] <MrUnshine> sucks that i do not have a big gas powered forge yet
[20:38:26] <andypugh> You are planning to anneal your own milling machine? I think that would be a mistake. The ways are probably induction hardened for a reason. How do you propose to re-harden them?
[20:39:01] <MrUnshine> andypugh, they are not hardened
[20:39:14] <MrUnshine> its one spot on one of the ways that is to hard to scrape
[20:39:16] <andypugh> I thought you said they were too hard to scrape?
[20:39:22] <MrUnshine> just one spot, like 30mm wide
[20:39:35] <cradek> angle grinder?
[20:39:35] <MrUnshine> rest is soft enough
[20:39:51] <andypugh> Carbide scraper?
[20:40:05] <MrUnshine> expensive and i do not have one :P
[20:40:16] <MrUnshine> but wont carbide not like carbide? :P
[20:40:27] <MrUnshine> as from what i read, hardspots like these are formed of carbide in the iron :P
[20:40:39] <andypugh> I doubt that there is carbide embedded in the bed.
[20:41:07] <andypugh> There is a vast differnce between iron carbide and tungsten carbide.
[20:41:07] <MrUnshine> carbide is aparently formed from to fast chilling or something of the cast iron
[20:41:11] <KimK> A small piece of wet-or-dry sandpaper?
[20:41:12] <MrUnshine> true :P
[20:41:38] <andypugh> Yes, you probably have a spot of white cast iron. Which is a martensite.
[20:42:21] <MrUnshine> well i suppose a carbide scraper is what i have to buy anyways as the sharpening of this tool steel one is kinda annoying :ÍP
[20:43:16] <andypugh> Actually, it isn't a martensite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron#White_cast_iron
[20:44:43] <andypugh> You could try re-hardening your scraper and only fractionally annealing it.
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[20:47:27] <andypugh> OK, off to the workshop I go.
[21:08:46] <KimK> skunkworks: New product to manufacture: Air Conditioner Cages: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/07/05/thieves-in-chatham-targeting-air-conditioners/
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[21:19:30] <danimal_garage> ha, good idea, i need a new air conditioner
[21:19:41] <danimal_garage> off to hunt the neighborhood i go
[21:20:40] <kbarry> Anyone have a source for Recycles HDPE Sheeting (1/16 or 1/18)
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[21:33:01] <elmo401> I wonder what size motors I would need to convert this mill : http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/SpielBP1.JPG
[21:33:03] <elmo401> ;)
[21:34:24] <Loetmichel> Cellphone vibrators?
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[21:35:00] <danimal_garage> ha
[21:36:11] <danimal_garage> pretty damn good replica
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[23:09:21] <L84Supper> KimK : that has been going on for a few years, a friend had his central A/C unit swiped off of his 2nd story roof when away..... they even pull copper wire out of conduits
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