#emc | Logs for 2011-07-04

[00:00:01] <toastydeath> a finishing bit for Al is almost too dull
[00:00:06] <toastydeath> and steel will certainly not work
[00:00:53] <toastydeath> plastic also likes to compress and ride under the tool bit instead of cutting, so take a good amount off at once even for finishing passes
[00:01:12] <toastydeath> I don't recall ever taking less than .050" off the diameter no matter what I was doing
[00:01:23] <toastydeath> if you can, take the whole thing at once (.200, .300 off the diameter)
[00:01:57] <toastydeath> with a wide tool bit you can get a good feed per rev, .007 or so
[00:02:03] <toastydeath> don't drop under .005
[00:02:13] <toastydeath> this is all in english however, not metric
[00:03:09] <Valen> andypugh: try a "sharp" tip
[00:03:12] <toastydeath> I also don't think i used anything less than 1/16th tool nose radius
[00:03:15] <Valen> cutter rather
[00:03:23] <toastydeath> i never ever got a good finish in any plastic using a sharp tip
[00:03:27] <Valen> so you cut it like a knife
[00:03:55] <andypugh> Wood-turning style?
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[00:04:08] <Valen> something like that i spose
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[00:04:22] <Valen> HSS may be better than carbide, it can be sharper
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[00:05:08] <Valen> well theres your advice, 180 degrees lol
[00:05:11] <toastydeath> if you look at tool bits for cutting optical plastics, they have a lot of rake and are almost spherical.
[00:05:22] <toastydeath> rather than a triangular/diamond insert
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[00:05:36] <Valen> oh Connor you can used compressed air for cooling/chip clearing too
[00:05:41] <Valen> can use
[00:05:55] <Valen> toastydeath: haven't seen them
[00:06:09] <Valen> i'm probably more used to sticker plastics than poly
[00:08:42] <Valen> toastydeath: got a url handy?
[00:08:53] <toastydeath> the problem with sharp (in the nose radius sense) tools is that they leave a diffractive surface in the material, whereas a wide tool nose wipes the ridges off, leaving a very wide and shallow scallop
[00:09:02] <toastydeath> rather than a high frequency ridge
[00:09:11] <toastydeath> I don't
[00:09:51] <toastydeath> that's why facemills and other things where you want a good finish have one or two wiper inserts
[00:10:11] <toastydeath> and many finishing tools for lathes have a wiper land even with small tool nose radii
[00:11:20] <toastydeath> experimenting is cheap, though
[00:11:59] <Valen> the problem we have had with plastics and a blunt tool is that the plastic deforms and rips rather than being cut
[00:12:12] <Valen> you can still have a rounded shape with a sharp tool
[00:12:25] <toastydeath> what you are referring to is rake
[00:13:15] <toastydeath> and yes, plastics are usually cut with something more than 25 degrees of rake
[00:13:23] <toastydeath> which, for machining, is a very sharp tool
[00:13:54] <Valen> sounds fair
[00:16:20] <toastydeath> also in that vein, is edge radius (not nose radius) - a polished, uncoated cermet insert will be the sharpest thing you can get at a reasonable price
[00:16:41] <toastydeath> they're fragile but that doesn't matter in plastic
[00:18:05] <andypugh> The inserts I got from RDG with the holder (no-name) are incredibly fragile. I keep thinking I should use HSS more.
[00:18:42] <andypugh> I lost half the top of one insert jogging out of a cut where I changed my mind.
[00:18:53] <Valen> we were using a 12mm carbide in some MDF for verifying a toolpath
[00:19:09] <Valen> was going great until we hit a screw
[00:19:17] <toastydeath> andypugh, that sounds like a defective batch
[00:19:19] <Valen> only 15mm into a bit of MDF
[00:19:26] <Valen> the rest was hanging out
[00:19:34] <andypugh> toastydeath: They were very cheap.
[00:19:43] <Valen> destroyed every tooth on the cutter
[00:19:57] <Valen> fancy coated one too :-<
[00:20:05] <Valen> didn't bother the screw
[00:21:10] <KimK> andypugh: Are you finding the polycarbonate kind of "rubbery"? Are you having heating or melting issues? I saw one place where they had a "coolant nozzle" that went on and off with M8/M9 as usual, but it was compressed air, mostly for cooling, maybe some for chip tossing.
[00:21:13] <andypugh> DCMT 07 @ £20 for 10. About 25% of the cost of a name-brand.
[00:22:03] <andypugh> KimK: To be honest, it was a one-off part, and is now installed (new blow-off valve for the compressor)
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[00:22:28] <KimK> Ah, excellent, job's over then?
[00:22:53] <KimK> On to the next problem, lol
[00:25:36] <andypugh> Which reminds me: I have a job-lot of inserts I bought, and no holders. I probably want the CCMT, but the others I am prepared to ship out for postage. https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhjJW1-T6n7CdDhtaFBsSEh6MFVXNkFSZ2VkU2kwSlE&hl=en_US#gid=0
[00:26:30] <andypugh> Wild, I shared it with the whole web, and an anonymous user was looking before I even posted the URL
[00:27:47] <KimK> Let me know if you have any left, I'll ask John if he can use them.
[00:28:27] <andypugh> Also a lot of huge (20mm +) drill inserts.
[00:30:04] <Connor> okay, so no diamond-cutters.. so, 1/8 2 flute for hardwoods & softmedia, 1/8 2 flute for non-ferrous ZrM coated, or 2 flute 1/8 spiral upcut?
[00:30:21] <Connor> I also have a 1/4 spiral upcut, I think that one is for wood.
[00:30:49] <Connor> high feed rate will be hard since I will be doing this on the manual mill.
[00:30:57] <andypugh> up to about 63mm. http://www.alliedmaxcut.com/products_structural_steel.php
[00:31:01] <Connor> spindle speed tops out at 2500RPM
[00:31:17] <andypugh> I doubt my machine can even push them
[00:34:55] <andypugh> random: Very cute, but no graduations at all. A baize-lined box for a milling machine seems wrong. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140572292189#ht_500wt_1256
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[00:37:43] <KimK> I guessed but Googled it anyway, to be sure. Baize is what we in the US call felt.
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[00:38:45] <KimK> I wonder how those two very different words came about? (No, I'm done Googling on it, lol.)
[00:39:10] <Connor> Probably different language.
[00:40:38] <KimK> Yes, was it H.L. Mencken that called England and the US, "Two countries, separated by a common language"?
[00:40:40] <andypugh> I don't think they are the same
[00:41:03] <andypugh> I think baize is woven
[00:41:14] <Valen> nice drills
[00:41:54] <Valen> we sometimes need to drill some hard steels, they could be handy
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[00:42:20] <andypugh> Yes, baize is a woven cloth, and is used to cover snooker and pool tables. Felt is made rather in the same way as paper, no weaving.
[00:42:52] <KimK> Oh, and you think felt is just compressed and not woven? Hmm, I don't know, Google said Baize was used to cover billiard tables. Did I jump to the wrong conclusion? We call "billiard cloth" felt. Maybe there are two kinds of felt?
[00:43:16] <Valen> felt is just pressed, no weaving as far as i'm aware
[00:43:53] <KimK> I mean maybe we use the same word (felt) for two different kinds of cloth? I don't know.
[00:43:55] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felt Vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baize
[00:44:15] <Valen> i think its one of those things that might be called felt by some but its really not
[00:45:27] <Valen> you can see the difference in the pictures
[00:46:46] <Valen> the pool tables in the pubs here are covered with felt, though i have seen some that look like that baize
[00:47:53] <KimK> In any case I can safely say I've never heard of baize before now. Thanks for the education, Andy, Valen.
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[00:51:26] <andypugh> Back to topic. Why do you think that the Mesa Resolver interface will require changes to EMC2?
[00:52:02] <Valen> KimK: i hadn't heard of it before either
[00:52:41] <Valen> andypugh: i cant think why it'd need changes to emc
[00:52:57] <Valen> oh there was some guy having difficulty with his BLDC + EMC setup
[00:53:55] <andypugh> Who? Where?
[00:54:16] <andypugh> It's a complicated subject, and I don't claim to have tried all combinations.
[00:54:30] <Valen> in here a day or 3 ago
[00:54:32] <Valen> lemme see
[00:55:06] <Valen> on the first a guy called sagc
[00:55:25] <andypugh> Bit hard to help if he is offline.
[00:55:31] <Valen> rather
[00:55:46] <Valen> was an odd problem
[00:55:59] <Valen> it'd move ok during "init" phase
[00:56:15] <andypugh> If he comes back, send him to the mailing list or forum.
[00:56:17] <Valen> but when he went to home/jog it would just put out its 3A and not commutate
[00:56:50] <andypugh> You will get that if the index isn't where you tell bldc is is.
[00:57:16] <Valen> i'm somewhat interested to use hobby bldc motors with EMC + mills
[00:57:23] <andypugh> (assuming he was homing to index)
[00:57:24] <Valen> hence the curiosity
[00:57:29] <Valen> nfi
[00:57:44] <Valen> I tried to tell him to turn homing off and just jog around
[00:57:59] <Valen> but why would it not commutate?
[00:58:02] <andypugh> Depends what his motor has.
[00:58:55] <andypugh> If it is encoder only, and set to home to index, and the index offset isn't what he has programmed, then it won;t work
[00:59:35] <Valen> i can see it not working but it just seems odd to me that it'd commutate and rotate during init, but then not move at all during actual motion
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[00:59:57] <andypugh> Most common problem is clockwise encoder and anticlockwise motor. They converge and stop, rather than the magnetic angle chasing the electrical angle.
[01:00:37] <andypugh> It very much depends on how he was initing, too.
[01:00:44] <Valen> i did get him to reverse the motor wires
[01:00:50] <Valen> and it inited in the opposite direction
[01:01:17] <andypugh> Switching the encoder scale would have a similar, but slightly different effect
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[01:02:09] <andypugh> to be honest, if you don't have hall sensors then you really have to understand motors to make the bldc component work.
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[01:03:26] <andypugh> It almost needs a companion program to try stuff until the motors start to spin.
[01:04:06] <andypugh> Damn. I wish I hadn't hust thought of that.
[01:04:43] <KimK> Would it help if there was a "learn" mode where you have to spin the motor by hand once? Ha, too slow, you're way ahead of me, lol.
[01:08:41] <andypugh> Even just flipping through all the hall modes would help.
[01:11:39] <KimK> Not counting the usual suspects (eBay,CL,etc.) you don't know of anyone who's unloading BLDC motors of at least "medium" size, do you? Oh, well, doesn't matter, too low on cash anyway.
[01:13:13] <andypugh> CL is hopeless in the UK. You can only look at a particular city.
[01:14:12] <KimK> Oh, "Crazed List" doesn't work there? I never tried to select outside the US.
[01:14:41] <andypugh> It works, but I would prefer to search my whole country, not just one city
[01:16:36] <KimK> Well, we can almost do that here, but (we are warned) if you select to aggressively, CL will detect the unusual load. I've always gone with "major cities" and been OK, though, probably 90% of the populated areas of the US? http://www.crazedlist.org/
[01:16:47] <KimK> s/ to / too /
[01:18:23] <andypugh> I get: http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/gb
[01:18:31] <andypugh> I want "all of the above"
[01:18:32] <KimK> Yes, there's a "search worldwide" tab, followed by "UK/Ireland all"
[01:19:15] <andypugh> "Sorry, but as far as i know there is no way to disable referrers in Safari, so this site will not work for you. "
[01:20:26] <andypugh> To be honest, there is more eBay than cash in my account..
[01:21:21] <KimK> Huh, they must redirect? I'm trying a search for "CNC" now on the UK/Ireland/All, I'll let you know in a minute or so.
[01:21:28] <KimK> Yes, me too, lol
[01:27:45] <KimK> Interesting, but pricey: http://london.craigslist.co.uk/for/2456574908.html http://london.craigslist.co.uk/for/2465181177.html These, not so much? http://london.craigslist.co.uk/for/2456279946.html http://london.craigslist.co.uk/for/2466520362.html
[01:31:03] <andypugh> Those Proteo things look interesitng
[01:35:58] <KimK> If you have some favorite searches for UK CL, Maybe I can run them for you, "bespoke" (that's one I do know, lol.)
[01:37:24] <KimK> Yes, that Proteo is interesting, if not very big. And that Fagor control I happen to know is very modular and self-contained, easily resold, the back of it is covered with DB-37's was it? Maybe DB-25's, I forgot.
[01:38:27] <andypugh> Not big is good.
[01:38:34] <KimK> It talks of a C axis also
[01:39:04] <KimK> I didn't notice a mill or live tool, though.
[01:39:47] <andypugh> I need to do more research. And 1800 is a lot for a machine I don't need.
[01:41:56] <KimK> Yes, I can certainly understand that. I haven't kept up, what's that, about $3600 US?
[01:42:13] <andypugh> A bit less. $3000?
[01:43:09] <KimK> OK. Still pricey. Slick, but pricey.
[01:43:17] <andypugh> Actually, according to ww.xe.com: 1,800.00 GBP = 2,891.69 USD
[01:44:38] <KimK> Plus, what, another 500-1000 BP to move it?
[01:44:59] <KimK> Unless you think you can trailer it or something?
[01:46:05] <andypugh> I have no idea where it is. It might be next door.
[01:48:26] <KimK> Good news on the docs. I just discovered you cannot use French accented characters in the AsciiDoc links, it spoils the build. So now perhaps the last chapter is falling into place? Keep your fingers crossed.
[01:50:21] <andypugh> Considering that HTML was invented in France, (or maybe Switzerland) that seems odd.
[01:51:39] <KimK> I didn't expect it. I suppose I could have missed the "real problem"? I'll keep my eye out.
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[02:15:34] <Valen> KimK: hobby city for bldc motors
[02:16:09] <Valen> they are hobby not industrial
[02:16:23] <Valen> and you may need to add sensors unless you can use the encoder for it
[02:16:34] <Valen> but they come in any size and bargin basement prices
[02:17:42] <KimK> Valen: Ah, that was to be my first question, are these closer to the CNC/servo type or the RC airplane/car type? But worth a look, anyway, although the voltage is probably too low for my purposes.
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[02:59:49] <aitalmac> hello everyone
[03:00:58] <aitalmac> I would like to use touchy as interface, right now i use stepconf wizard to make my hal and ini file, can i use this files, or is there a stepconf for touchy?
[03:01:17] <aitalmac> or an easy way to change from axis to touchy?
[03:03:22] <aitalmac> Can someone paste an example touchy.hal for move axis 0 with pin 2 and 3 of parport 0 "0x378"
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[03:36:01] <Valen> edit ini and change where it says axis to touchy?
[03:36:38] <willburrrr2003> I am trying to generate a spindle PWM signal, but nothing is showing on my pin with the halscope when I try and test it out, can anyone help me sort this out?
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[03:39:05] <willburrrr2003> the only signal I am using is setting parallel port pin 1 to spindle PWM, but like I said it shows nothing on the halscope when I test it out. I have tried setting freq for spindle to 1000, 500, 200... all no go
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[04:17:27] <alex4nder> yoh
[04:39:19] <aitalmac> when i edit the display from axis to touchy the interface does not startup
[04:41:33] <aitalmac> i think i should edit the hal file
[04:41:34] <aitalmac> also
[04:41:52] <aitalmac> because in the hal file there are connections to axis interface
[04:42:07] <aitalmac> so i should change those connections to touchy but i have no idea how to do it
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[05:08:07] <Jymmm> willburrrr2003: Did you try an led ?
[05:16:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn... http://www.thepostgame.com/features/201107/daredevil-squirrel-performs-ultimate-lambo-leap
[05:24:17] <willburrrr2003> Jymmm: No I didn't try LED , hooked output (parallel port pin 1) up to my speed controller card and when I got no response, I checked the pin with halscop, and saw now indication of it triggering at all
[05:24:57] <willburrrr2003> and I used stepconf wizard to set it up
[05:29:31] <aitalmac> I also used stepconf wizard to set my spindle, i checked that it was working with show hal configuration
[05:30:21] <willburrrr2003> what pins did you setup for your spindle control aitalmac?
[05:31:29] <willburrrr2003> mabey I am missing a pin i need?! so far I only have 1 pin (spindle PWM) setup , as that is all I am using on my driver board
[05:32:06] <aitalmac> i use 2 pin
[05:32:14] <aitalmac> one for spindle cw
[05:32:20] <aitalmac> and the other for pwm
[05:32:47] <aitalmac> 14 and 16
[05:32:55] <aitalmac> 14 for PWM
[05:33:02] <aitalmac> 16 spindle CW
[05:34:26] <willburrrr2003> direction control is left wired as original on my mini-lathe, I am just replacing the pot on the llathe with a c6 controller board for cnc4pc to drive the 0-10v signal, and the c6 board runs of a parallel port PWM signal, which I have setup for pin 1
[05:35:01] <willburrrr2003> I figured I should see a waveform with Halscope going out to that port pin.... am I wrong in thinking this?
[05:35:34] <aitalmac> i don't see any halscope signal on my spindle
[05:35:54] <aitalmac> to check that is running i go on hal configuration
[05:35:56] <aitalmac> under pin
[05:35:58] <willburrrr2003> does emc need a direction pin for spindle contro to work, even if my driver board is not using it?
[05:35:58] <aitalmac> motion
[05:36:09] <aitalmac> i don't think you need it
[05:36:35] <willburrrr2003> ok, what value should I see under hal configuration in the pins section?
[05:36:38] <aitalmac> I just put to turn on my spindle, otherwise i have to push the tun button on inverter
[05:36:53] <aitalmac> *run button
[05:37:06] <aitalmac> depends what speed you set
[05:37:16] <aitalmac> the more you go up with speed the bigger number
[05:37:36] <willburrrr2003> ok, makes sense
[05:38:11] <willburrrr2003> will go and try itchecking in hal configuration, back in a few mins
[05:38:12] <aitalmac> watch on spindle speed out or spindle speed out rpm
[05:38:57] <aitalmac> someone available to help me make hal file for touchy?
[05:39:01] <willburrrr2003> I haven't set up anything to see spindle speed, will it still have a value for them if I haven't set them up?
[05:39:14] <aitalmac> i try
[05:40:26] <aitalmac> you have set the rate?
[05:40:32] <aitalmac> PWM rate?
[05:41:07] <willburrrr2003> that I set in the wizard, but I don't have anything on my axis screen showing current spindle setting
[05:41:41] <aitalmac> i don't too
[05:42:05] <aitalmac> You see in the hal configuration at what speed the spindle is working
[05:42:09] <willburrrr2003> ok, thanks for the info :) I will go play with it more to see if I can find out anything
[05:42:22] <aitalmac> no problem
[05:42:53] <aitalmac> Again anyone can help me make an hal file for touchy interface?
[05:49:05] <aitalmac> http://pastebin.com/2PTkry8a
[05:49:46] <aitalmac> this is a pastebin of the error i got when i try start emc2, after changing display to touchy
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[06:20:52] <KimK> (Note: the following is not just for Americans, but is indeed for everyone. Enjoy.) Let me be the first to wish everyone a happy Fourth of July. "...And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
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[06:32:07] <aitalmac> Anyone can help me with touchy?
[06:32:20] <aitalmac> I have the machine running on axis
[06:32:28] <aitalmac> i want try touchy what should i do?
[06:32:42] <aitalmac> changing display settings in INI file gives me error
[06:32:50] <aitalmac> http://pastebin.com/2PTkry8a
[06:33:12] <KimK> OK, looking...
[06:35:17] <aitalmac> thanks KimK
[06:36:13] <KimK> And the only change you made was to the ini file, where you changed DISPLAY = AXIS to DISPLAY = TOUCHY ?
[06:38:49] <aitalmac> yes
[06:40:34] <aitalmac> i wrote touchy not TOUCHY, if i write it with capslock it gives me error can't load touchy
[06:41:37] <aitalmac> change back to "DISPLAY = axis" everything works fine
[06:42:19] <aitalmac> if you want i can send you my config file for stepconf
[06:48:14] <aitalmac> https://0fkdwg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pOZ1_SPhfv9qkzTc5l7F0Ig8hBGQYTtkeYAohQ7OUCTJquAbS-nZB4Xd3_Jl-G7oA8yXmCVw9Bvwsutt4cFiSdw/AitalMAC.stepconf?download&psid=1
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[06:49:39] <aitalmac> http://www.mediafire.com/?va90ey1aoisrhud
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[06:50:34] <aitalmac> I have the machine running on axis
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[06:50:39] <aitalmac> i want try touchy what should i do?
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[06:50:45] <aitalmac> changing display settings in INI file gives me error
[06:50:48] <aitalmac> http://pastebin.com/2PTkry8a
[06:50:53] <aitalmac> http://www.mediafire.com/?va90ey1aoisrhud
[06:51:02] <aitalmac> last is my stepconf file
[06:51:46] <psha[work]> you've just replaced DISPLAY=axis with DISPLAY=touchy?
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[06:53:15] <aitalmac> yes
[06:53:26] <aitalmac> should i do any other change?
[06:53:51] <aitalmac> i have installed 2.6 on run-in-place
[06:54:21] <aitalmac> axis is working
[06:54:59] <psha[work]> i guess you don't need to change anything except DISPLAY=
[06:54:59] <aitalmac> before i was with stock emc 2.4.6 from CD installation and it did the same thing
[06:55:35] <psha[work]> HALFILE= variables in your .ini file
[06:55:46] <psha[work]> it looks like it's trying to insert trivkins twice
[06:56:22] <aitalmac> [HAL]
[06:56:22] <aitalmac> HALFILE = AitalMAC.hal
[06:56:22] <aitalmac> HALFILE = custom.hal
[06:56:22] <aitalmac> POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal
[06:56:36] <aitalmac> custom and postgui are empty
[06:56:58] <aitalmac> AitalMAC.hal is from stepconf wizard only change display=touchy
[06:57:12] <psha[work]> do you have file 'touchy.hal'?
[06:57:49] <ds3> anyone here do end to end designs?
[06:58:16] <KimK> ds3: which end to which end, lol?
[06:58:26] <psha[work]> KimK: good morning
[06:58:41] <ds3> KimK: from product envisionment to product in hand
[06:58:46] <ds3> basically idea to product
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[06:59:38] <ds3> trying to see what people's work flow is like
[06:59:46] <psha[work]> aitalmac: it looks like you have touchy.hal with some duplication in it
[07:00:31] <aitalmac> ok i'll search and delete everything i got in touchy.hal
[07:01:28] <psha[work]> not everthing
[07:01:36] <psha[work]> but duplication with main .hal file
[07:01:59] <aitalmac> well i deleted everything and now interface opens
[07:02:01] <aitalmac> but
[07:02:04] <KimK> psha[work]: Hi, thanks for helping aitalmac
[07:02:07] <aitalmac> nothing moves
[07:02:42] <psha[work]> heh, restore touchy.hal from touchy.hal.example :)
[07:02:46] <aitalmac> spindle is workin
[07:02:51] <aitalmac> how do i jog axis?
[07:02:57] <psha[work]> src/emc/usr_intf/touchy/touchy.hal.example
[07:03:05] <psha[work]> axis? with MPG!
[07:03:05] <psha[work]> :)
[07:03:06] <aitalmac> i deleted that one too
[07:03:12] <aitalmac> xD
[07:03:14] <psha[work]> git checkout src/emc/usr_intf/touchy/touchy.hal.example
[07:03:19] <KimK> ds3: That's a long road, not many go all the way up and down the whole length of it.
[07:03:46] <psha[work]> or... there are ways...
[07:03:56] * psha[work] looks around for c r a d e k...
[07:04:01] <ds3> KimK: yes and there doesn't seem to be many tools for that either
[07:04:10] <psha[work]> you may place gladevcp panel with controls and hook them into touchy
[07:04:12] <aitalmac> so to move machine with touchy must have an MPG
[07:04:25] <psha[work]> i've not told you that :)
[07:04:38] <aitalmac> what are the X Y Z button and the jog button for?
[07:04:52] <psha[work]> xyz are for changing selected axis
[07:05:04] <aitalmac> ok i get it thanks
[07:05:13] <psha[work]> you select axis with touchy and then turn mpg jog
[07:05:42] <Jymmm> Does something look wrong with that relay? http://d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/23000103/images/al1012ulxb-02.jpg
[07:06:54] <psha[work]> aitalmac: if you want to use touchy with keyboard/mouse you may add panel with desired controls
[07:07:21] <archivist_emc> ds3 and there are side turnings and dead ends
[07:07:46] <psha[work]> i hope you have external estop?
[07:08:58] <ds3> archivist_emc: I am not even considering the case of the end product not working... consider the first part - what kind of cad package do people use to draw it? and will it integrate with simulators and the electronics stuff to let you do a virtual verification before committing to the real world
[07:09:37] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:09:42] <archivist_emc> ds3 I often dont simulate electronics I go direct to hardware
[07:10:21] <archivist_emc> partly to debug other issues you only see in the real thing TM
[07:10:26] <ds3> archivist_emc: not even checks to see if it will fit where you think it goes? i.e. connector spacing/size
[07:10:41] <Loetmichel> archivist_emc: brother in mind ;-) $me develops hardware also in hardware... ;-)
[07:11:07] <aitalmac> " psha[work] you select axis with touchy and then turn mpg jog" i don't get it
[07:11:19] <aitalmac> oh i get it
[07:11:21] <aitalmac> sorry
[07:11:24] <Loetmichel> ds3: First test is usally in Experimental boards
[07:11:28] <psha[work]> aitalmac: touchy was designed to be used as a part of larger control
[07:11:28] <KimK> ds3: Take a look at the gEDA suite, free/open, and lots of options.
[07:11:33] <archivist_emc> there are so many error sources in design, simulation wont find some/all
[07:11:36] <psha[work]> external estop, external jog etc
[07:11:41] <psha[work]> external 'run' button
[07:11:51] <Loetmichel> ant at the point the ciruit runs as expected one designs the PCM
[07:11:54] <Loetmichel> wPCB
[07:11:57] <Loetmichel> grrr
[07:11:58] <Loetmichel> PCB
[07:12:03] <aitalmac> i can add job button in there if i want to
[07:12:05] <ds3> Loetmichel: That still requires committing time and parts and it assumes you can fit it on such a board
[07:12:15] <ds3> KimK: does that output a 3D model?
[07:12:17] <Loetmichel> yes
[07:12:23] <psha[work]> aitalmac: do you have touchscreen or just keyboard/mouse?
[07:13:13] <Loetmichel> ds3: sometimes i dont even use a board.
[07:13:14] <aitalmac> i have keyboard and mouse
[07:13:20] <archivist_emc> I do PCB early, that part of the design problem
[07:13:52] <KimK> ds3: I don't recall if it does or not, sorry.
[07:13:56] <psha[work]> so you may add extra tab to touchy with desired controls
[07:14:09] <ds3> archivist_emc: so you don't do any check to make sure it fits the way you want it to in the enclosure?
[07:14:12] <psha[work]> you may look into config/gladevcp/ for example
[07:14:13] <archivist_emc> ds3 kicad can do 3d
[07:14:23] <Loetmichel> i HAVE (although a a bet) build a complete microcomputer with z80, ram, rom, video, i/o as a ball of wires and chips ;-)
[07:14:27] <aitalmac> so for send an MDI like G0 x100 i should press an externa run button that i do not have?
[07:14:32] <ds3> archivist_emc: really? more then just a PoV rendered picture?
[07:14:40] <psha[work]> aitalmac: yes
[07:14:47] <psha[work]> or trigger it with pyvcp/gladevcp button
[07:15:02] <psha[work]> ah, i may be wrong
[07:15:10] <aitalmac> do you know what i should trigger?
[07:15:12] <psha[work]> to run/pause/stop program you need external button
[07:15:26] <psha[work]> not sure about mdi commands
[07:15:37] <aitalmac> well i want run an MDI command but i don't see enter button
[07:15:38] <archivist_emc> ds3 never had to be that tight in 3d with a pcb yet, also brain can be quite good at visualisation
[07:15:42] <psha[work]> look in the docs - all needed pin names are listed there
[07:15:44] <KimK> ds3: Here's the gEDA homepage, maybe it's in the FQ? http://www.gpleda.org/index.html
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[07:16:45] <aitalmac> Can you link me to the exact document
[07:16:46] <aitalmac> ?
[07:17:02] <aitalmac> there are so many sometime it's really hard to find the right one
[07:17:09] <psha[work]> gui/touchy.html
[07:17:16] <aitalmac> thanks\
[07:17:49] <psha[work]> - Cycle start button (momentary contact) connected to `touchy.cycle-start`
[07:18:07] <psha[work]> but i don't know if it's related to MDI or only to program
[07:18:41] <aitalmac> i think i need to install documentation
[07:19:16] <psha[work]> it's available on the web
[07:19:53] <psha[work]> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/touchy.html
[07:20:09] <aitalmac> thank you so much
[07:20:19] <KimK> psha[work]: Touchy has it's own I/O? It doesn't use halui.whatever ?
[07:20:52] <psha[work]> KimK: yes, for some operations it has own code
[07:21:15] <KimK> psha[work]: Well, whaddya know?
[07:22:22] <KimK> psha[work]: Learn something new every day.
[07:22:58] <psha[work]> KimK: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/usr_intf/touchy/hal_interface.py;h=f53808f36837327c6c1723ccfdf5aa8cd1875f86;hb=HEAD#l17
[07:23:42] <psha[work]> it's really better some times to implement simple operations inside UI then to offload it on halui
[07:23:58] <psha[work]> since you get finer control and ability to block parts of UI during jog (for example)
[07:24:21] <mazafaka> What is 'contact angle = 45' in the options? The tools seems to be parallel to Z-axis ( http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/image-to-gcode.html )
[07:24:44] <KimK> Yes, but halui lets you connect real buttons and lights, lol.
[07:25:22] <psha[work]> KimK: some touchy controls are designed same way - no ESTOP button at all
[07:25:33] <psha[work]> you need to hook one from outside
[07:27:39] <psha[work]> hm, with estop i'm not correct i suspect - there is external control for it
[07:27:41] <ds3> hmmm not much on it there
[07:27:47] <KimK> Yes, I agree, E-stop should always be a non-computer thing, except EMC2 can be in the loop too, like all the other fault detectors, that's a good thing. Just not in charge of the loop, lol!
[07:28:08] <psha[work]> s/there is/there is no'
[07:29:16] <psha[work]> KimK: however there is no much UI-independent stuff done in touchy - most of things are better to keep in UI and not in halui
[07:34:17] <KimK> mazafaka: "Contact angle" is for when you are carving an image, if there's a strong contrast, you'll have to move the tool sharply uphill or downhill. So the question is, what is the dividing line between a steep hill and a shallow hill?
[07:34:55] <mazafaka> yeah, relates on 'lace bounding'
[07:35:54] <mazafaka> you have won the trial. i'm giving you a degree of mentor in EMC, untill 3:00 PM :)
[07:36:14] <mazafaka> next challenge is withing next hour ;)
[07:36:49] <KimK> Ha, I presume you're talking to psha[work] ? He helped you the most, I think.
[07:37:42] <mazafaka> no, i'm just kidding you
[07:38:12] <KimK> It's great that you guys are doing and trying all of these different things. Lots of interesting stuff happening here and there.
[07:40:32] * mazafaka also cries from happiness, and optionally eats an apple
[07:40:40] <KimK> ds3: Oh, i forgot to give you this one, symbols: http://gedasymbols.org/
[07:45:44] <mazafaka> imageTk for image-to-gcode, what .deb file shall i install to get it?
[07:46:44] <KimK> It
[07:46:48] <KimK> oops
[07:46:57] <KimK> It's not already installed?
[07:47:27] <psha[work]> i guess python-imaging-tk
[07:47:35] <mazafaka> oh
[07:47:45] <psha[work]> but may be not right
[07:48:56] <psha[work]> http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/i386/python-imaging-tk/filelist
[07:49:00] <psha[work]> looks like
[07:49:00] <mazafaka> yeah, and its size is about 9.5 bytes
[07:49:17] <mazafaka> it's linux mint 11
[07:49:26] <psha[work]> mint is debian derivative
[07:49:39] <psha[work]> so core packages are same
[07:50:45] <psha[work]> mint: http://community.linuxmint.com/software/view/python-imaging-tk
[07:53:32] <mazafaka> python-imagin-tk is great :)
[07:53:39] <mazafaka> lol
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[07:57:42] <mazafaka> Bad carma after the jokes, the computer has just stalled!
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[09:04:10] <MrUnshine> facinating how mirror like finnish one gets from a scraped surface, was looking at the guideways at an angle to the table, and its like a freakin mirror =)
[09:06:20] <Valen> guess its fairly flat then ;->
[09:06:52] <alex_joni> a mirror isn't necessarely flat
[09:08:18] <Valen> it generally is at the small scale ;-p
[09:16:56] <MrUnshine> if the image isnt distorted it should be flat right? :)
[09:18:12] <cpresser> better: the planar projection along the viewing-vector should be flat :)
[09:18:36] <cpresser> err not quite.. a projection is always flat
[09:19:39] <Spida> cpresser: *ping*
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[11:17:42] <HDB10> psha[work] Hi there how are you doing :-)
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[11:26:46] <psha[work]> nice
[11:26:48] <psha[work]> working :)
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[12:11:56] <HDB10> psha[work] That's good you have more work. I'am up to my eye balls also. Will catch you down the track.
[12:12:05] <HDB10> Bye for now.
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[12:14:13] <psha[work]> HDB10: bye :)
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[13:27:58] <mazafaka> Have just found G5.2 to G5.3 block for NURBs
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[13:45:30] <mazafaka> Exact Stop Mode <-- Does machine stop before changes its trajectory?
[13:46:27] <Loetmichel> no, but decelerates and accelerates according ti the change of trajectory to hold the head exact on trajectrory
[13:47:37] <Loetmichel> in "continous speed" (is it called so?) the mmachine will try to hold a constant speed and will take some deviation from the exact path for that
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[13:47:59] <Loetmichel> (i.e som bulges at 90░ corners and such)
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[13:48:41] <mazafaka> oh, ok.
[13:49:25] <Loetmichel> you can imaginge a hovercraft driving over a complex path.
[13:49:47] <mazafaka> Justa.... Code from HeeksCNC has some arcs where there are only lines. I have changed the options of the program to Exact Stop Mode, but these arcs at corners appears, anyway
[13:50:10] <Loetmichel> you can either decelerate before a corner or get full speed, then you will have to "round" the corner out
[13:50:33] <mazafaka> yeah, machine also can straighten the curves with polylines within the given tolerance
[13:50:41] <Loetmichel> yes
[13:52:03] <mazafaka> My demo G-code for my employer will be created and checked and edited -- and recorded with XvidCAP, so I am checking everything before the performance.
[13:54:50] <mazafaka> it's pretty simple booster for V-brakes of cross-country mountain bicycle. It's not sophisticated with capability to be used with the frames of various sizes.
[14:01:21] <KimK> mazafaka: Exact stop is still giving you rounded corners?
[14:01:25] <mazafaka> I have details for two albums and three singles. There also will be an album with remixes if people will love my arse in my noisy videos. Uh, no... If people will like the way I am working.
[14:01:56] <mazafaka> KimK: HeeksCNC software gives me arcs at junction of lines.
[14:02:22] <KimK> Ah, OK. Not an EMC2 problem then?
[14:03:13] <mazafaka> No, EMC only visualises the code. [ I will have soon downloaded the video of my desktop. I'll go buy some chocolate, tired from lots of info. ]
[14:04:41] <mazafaka> electronik MCs da supermarket yeaah
[14:04:52] <mazafaka> :)
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[14:23:07] <cpresser> mazafaka: maybe your cam-software has tool-compensation. if you cut outside of a line you will get arcs around the corners
[14:23:56] <mazafaka> exactly! poor me engineer!
[14:24:53] <Loetmichel> my cam makes diagonal moves at straight corners, not arcs... but that would be nitpicking ;-)
[14:25:18] <mazafaka> closed contour, choices outside / inside
[14:27:14] <mazafaka> HeeksCNC is freeware, here's the script which installs it from SVN http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/wiki/BuildWithCmakeOnUbuntu
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[15:16:18] <JT-Shop> It's a good day for bon fires here
[15:23:10] <robin__> I need either a furnace or a 50 cal
[15:23:32] <robin__> this f****ing GSXR has done it one last time
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[15:37:24] <JT-Shop> GSXR?
[15:38:11] <JT-Shop> you can borrow my 50 but you have to use your own ammo that stuff is expensive
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[15:38:24] <mazafaka> i am about to upload my video
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[15:42:44] <JT-Shop> Yawn
[15:42:58] <IchGuckLive> Hi and Happy Ho,yday,independenceday,4th of july to all in the USA
[15:43:26] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/macy-s-fireworks live from NY
[15:44:10] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[15:47:23] <syyl> happy-blow-something-up-day? :D
[15:53:35] <mazafaka> i'm uploading my demo video he-he
[15:53:50] <mazafaka> fireworks are dangerous
[15:54:09] <syyl> i was told that...
[15:55:16] <JT-Shop> shhhh, it is nap time
[15:55:52] <syyl> *ignites a chinacracker*
[15:55:54] <theos> hmm
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[16:08:06] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[16:08:17] <theos> hmmmm
[16:09:01] <Loetmichel> firecrackers...
[16:09:26] <Loetmichel> there should be some left from new years eve...
[16:10:06] <Loetmichel> ... where did i stash them? ... ahhh, there they were...
[16:10:40] * Loetmichel ignites some serious Firecracker for the "American brothers" ;)
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[16:19:56] <mazafaka> So, comment the workflow QCAD > HeeksCNC > EMC. The video is on the top of the page. http://ilya-e-g.ya.ru Sorry for some light erotic hint at the rest of the page :)
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[16:29:50] <mazafaka> Starting from tomorrow, with a new job, I will try to do some thingies from this riding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o
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[16:32:15] <TekniQue> mazafaka: new job gives you health insurance?
[16:33:24] <mazafaka> rather starvation insurance
[16:35:46] <mazafaka> need money to eat, to buy new cranks with gears for my good old Norco Mountaineer
[16:38:11] <IchGuckLive> can i simulate the A-axis in the emc axis module ?
[16:38:31] <IchGuckLive> or does just run the value of the axis
[16:40:01] <mazafaka> no idea
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[16:40:32] <IchGuckLive> the values does the correct thing but the path is only on the G17 plane
[16:40:48] <IchGuckLive> 1 time
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[16:41:14] <IchGuckLive> i use the Axis)-axis sim module includet to 2.5.0pre
[16:41:22] <IchGuckLive> 9Axis
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[16:54:51] <IchGuckLive> no i did not found anything that can make it a real sim i will use opencascade for sim
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[17:21:56] <mazafaka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAVi4NfRVhc
[17:22:02] <mazafaka> What is it?
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[17:30:03] <willburrrr2003> good morning all :) has anyone used the c6 speed controller board from cnc4pc, I am trying to get mine working and having trouble
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[17:43:13] <psha> mazafaka: is it opengl bugs on video? or invalid capture?
[17:43:38] <mazafaka> Compiz in its activity
[17:44:05] <mazafaka> 'composite' is enabled
[17:44:25] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: describe "having trouble"
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[17:44:38] <mazafaka> don't really know what exactly option to uncheck
[17:44:47] <psha> heh, it's better to disable it before recording videos
[17:44:52] <psha> gnome?
[17:44:55] <mazafaka> yeah
[17:45:04] <mazafaka> Linux Mint 11 - gnome
[17:45:29] <psha> wait a bit, i'll load emc livecd
[17:46:08] <willburrrr2003> JT-shop, first I tried to setup spindle control with stepconf wizard, I set pin 1 as spindle pwm , I get an active high on the spindle pin when I try and adjust speed. I re-read docs on c6 board and realized PWM will not work, has to be a frequency.
[17:46:39] <willburrrr2003> so I tried to add the example hal change modding pins for my own and such, but keeps crashing when I try and load emc
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[17:48:03] <JT-Shop> revert back your changes until EMC will load, which example are speaking of?
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[17:48:20] <psha_> system - preferences - appearance - visual effects
[17:48:26] <mazafaka> ok
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[17:49:10] <mazafaka> ha-ha, there is no 'Visual Effects' tab in Linux Mint
[17:49:13] <willburrrr2003> looking to find it, just a sec
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[17:49:23] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: are you speaking of the CNC4PC modification to your hal file?
[17:49:55] <psha> mazafaka: what tabs do you have?
[17:49:58] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop, yes I am
[17:50:02] <mazafaka> only three
[17:50:38] <JT-Shop> your using a stepgen wizard config?
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[17:50:58] <willburrrr2003> http://cnc4pc.com/Files/EMC2.txt is the file I was using, I changed the stepgen line in my original hall to add a 3rd stepgen (instead of the 5th they do in the example)
[17:51:16] <mazafaka> 'Theme', 'Background', 'Fonts', and also Menu > 'Preferences' > CompizConfig Settings Manager
[17:51:31] <willburrrr2003> I tried youing the stepconf wizard, but it makes a PWM signal instead of the needed freq signal
[17:51:33] <psha> ah, they've split them
[17:51:37] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: you only have 2 axis?
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[17:51:49] <willburrrr2003> yes it is a lathe I am modding
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[17:52:18] <JT-Shop> ok, open stepgen and remove pwm and get your config to work
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[17:53:08] <JT-Shop> the example is flawed and does not show everything
[17:53:50] <willburrrr2003> ok so I shoul be going through the stepconf wizard then? how do I remove the PWM to make it a freq?
[17:54:33] <JT-Shop> just remove it so your config will work less the speed control, then we will add that to your working config
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[17:55:44] <willburrrr2003> ok, will go make changes and be back in a few mins
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[18:00:15] <Guest504> Anyone know how to have ubuntu run EMC at start up ie:hide all the desktop stuff?
[18:00:35] <Guest504> just the EMC interface showing
[18:00:49] <Guest504> or a link to where its done
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[18:00:56] <psha> Guest504: yes
[18:01:05] <psha> install dwm and write simple .xsession file
[18:01:17] <mazafaka> psha: when i disable composite, the title bar altogether with _ +X dissapears
[18:01:18] <SWPadnos> there are descriptions on the web on how to auto-login and also on how to auto-run programs
[18:01:32] <SWPadnos> or ask in #ubuntu - it's more of an OS question than an EMC one
[18:01:44] <Guest504> Ok thanks.
[18:02:25] <mazafaka> it's rather general linux question, someone from #ubuntu-offtopic may give a hint - a link
[18:03:08] <SWPadnos> one keyword you might not think of is "kiosk mode" - that's a very similar thing
[18:03:13] <psha> SWPadnos: hey! i was preaching in the honor of DWM church!
[18:03:29] <SWPadnos> Distressed White Male?
[18:03:37] <psha> Guest504: or you may ask just here :) i was setting up 'kiosk mode' last week :)
[18:03:37] <SWPadnos> Do What I Mean?
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[18:03:52] <psha> SWPadnos: i guess Dumb Window Manager
[18:04:05] <psha> one of many ratpoison WM's out of there
[18:04:21] <SWPadnos> psha, you wouldn't happen to know how to position programs on multiple desktops, would you? (like --geometry=, but including the desktop and the position/size)
[18:04:24] <SWPadnos> ah
[18:04:47] <psha> SWPadnos: it depends on WM
[18:04:54] <psha> with metacity - no, i don't
[18:05:08] <SWPadnos> devilspie won't work, since that uses the program or window name, and I want 12 terminals on 6 desktops
[18:05:10] <SWPadnos> ok, thanks
[18:05:34] <psha> look at tiling WM's
[18:05:37] <SWPadnos> I just stuck an icon on the desktop that opens two terminals in the right places, and I run it on the 6 desktops
[18:06:05] <SWPadnos> well, the thing is I'd like to run a script, and have these windows open on non-focused workspaces
[18:06:09] <psha> currently i'm using ion3 and waiting when notion will land in debian repo
[18:06:46] <psha> heh, instead of pre-opening terminals i'm using Alt-F2 shortcut for new term :)
[18:07:09] <psha> with urxvt (even in standalone mode) it takes small amount of time to start
[18:07:11] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop: I have reverted back to my working config files before I tried to add the speed control.
[18:07:27] <JT-Shop> working now?
[18:07:41] <SWPadnos> the 2-terminal icon is pretty good - it only takes about 5-10 seconds to open all the terminals and have them positioned and sized correctly
[18:08:03] <willburrrr2003> yes it is working again, loads and runs fine moves the machine around goo again
[18:08:09] <ds3> use xterms with the geometry option.. no position or resizing needed
[18:08:10] <willburrrr2003> good*
[18:08:20] <JT-Shop> ok, change your stepgen line and make sure that works
[18:08:27] <SWPadnos> geometry doesn't take a desktop number, AFAIK
[18:08:51] <SWPadnos> the script does use geometry to set the size and position of two terminals, but I need to run it on 6 desktops
[18:09:10] <psha> ds3: xterm has very limited support for Alt-* keys
[18:09:33] <ds3> yes, virtual desktops is an illusion created by the wm
[18:09:38] <SWPadnos> heh, yep
[18:09:50] <psha> SWPadnos: heh, 5-10 seconds?! what terms are you using?
[18:10:00] <ds3> psha: when do you need to use the Alt-* keys in a terminal?
[18:10:12] <psha> ds3: all time i use terminal
[18:10:18] <SWPadnos> that includes me selecting the icon, flipping between desktops, and running the script on each of the 6 desktops
[18:10:26] <ds3> Wonder if you can give each session a name and have the wm bind it to a desktop
[18:10:29] <psha> Alt-B, Alt-D for example
[18:10:48] <ds3> Eh? Alt-* doesn't map to standard stuff in the shell
[18:11:07] <SWPadnos> ds3, hmmm, maybe. then devilspie or similar might let me put things on the other desktops
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[18:12:42] <psha> ds3: i guess at least for bash they map to 'go one word back' and 'delete word'
[18:12:51] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop: stepgen line changed and working
[18:13:00] <psha> at least this work both in urxvt and in standard console (tty)
[18:13:14] <ds3> psha: Usually that is CTRL-something if you are in emacs mode
[18:13:19] <ds3> and no modifiers if you are in vi mode
[18:13:51] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: add your scale function and make sure it works
[18:13:53] <JT-Shop> loadrt scale count=1
[18:13:55] <JT-Shop> addf scale.0 base-thread
[18:13:57] <psha> ds3: no, emacs use same Alt-* sequences, bash borrows lot of keybindings from emacs
[18:14:14] <psha> yes, for vim most of them are useless however some are working too
[18:14:42] <psha> at least Alt-B
[18:15:07] <ds3> psha: odd... it is ctrl-* in all the systems I have used... *shrug*
[18:15:31] <psha> ds3: heh, there not enought keys to be used with ctrl :D so they are using Alt-* for some operations
[18:15:58] <ds3> I wonder... if you are talking about the meta key?
[18:15:59] <MrUnshine> hmm, got my new dial indicator today, tho the tip is giving alot of resistance to moving when doing it by hand ... is this good or bad?
[18:16:03] <psha> ds3: yes
[18:16:12] <MrUnshine> im thinking good as the spring will hold the tip to the surface
[18:16:13] <ds3> oh..that can be remapped to other stuff
[18:16:21] <psha> surely it can :)
[18:16:26] <ds3> in any case, I am vi user... can't stand emacs :P
[18:16:46] <psha> same here, but i've used emacs some times ago for haskell programs - vi haskell mode is poor :(
[18:17:12] <psha> so i'm a bit emacs user too :)
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[18:18:02] <ds3> I'd sooner contour surfaces w/o CNC then use emacs :P
[18:18:51] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop:that one crashes
[18:19:19] <JT-Shop> which line crashes
[18:20:21] <willburrrr2003> how do I see which of the two new lines crashed it? not good at reading error file yet
[18:20:41] <psha> ds3: heh, i understand that i've sold my soul to devil but emacs haskell mode was really much better then vim... :)
[18:21:21] <JT-Shop> try the loadrt first
[18:21:24] <ds3> can't stand vim either :P
[18:21:33] <willburrrr2003> ok, will do
[18:21:47] <JT-Shop> comment out the addf line with #
[18:23:42] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop: it is the addf line crashing it
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[18:23:56] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: just a sec let me look
[18:24:03] <willburrrr2003> k thanks
[18:26:17] <JT-Shop> change it to servo-thread
[18:26:44] <willburrrr2003> ok off to garage to change it brb
[18:26:48] <JT-Shop> ok
[18:29:20] <willburrrr2003> JT-shop: that worked
[18:29:50] <JT-Shop> ok, follow this adding a few lines at a time to make sure it loads and change to suit http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,11151/lang,english/#11151
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[18:31:49] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: I think something is missing still just reading the example, let me know how it works out
[18:32:14] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop, thanks alot :D I will give it a go, printing that out to take into garage with me... I tried to search the forums earlier, but couldn't get any of the threads to show on my screen, page never would load
[18:32:33] <willburrrr2003> I will be back soon as I can get things typed in, will let you know in a few
[18:32:58] <willburrrr2003> back downsairs and to the garage....getting my exercise today hehe
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[18:40:21] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: when you get back I've changed the last line to add missing bit
[18:50:59] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop, with 2 changes that worked good
[18:53:29] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: so your spindle speed control works now?
[18:53:58] <willburrrr2003> it had the line addf scale.0 servo-thread in 2 place, causing a crash...removed the second one and got past the crash, second issue I had was when I changed the line for my freq out for pin 1 "net spindle-out <= stepgen.4.step => parport.0.pin-14-out" was changed to "net spindle-out <= stepgen.2.step => parport.0.pin-01-out"
[18:54:14] <willburrrr2003> yes the c6 driver card is responding nicely now
[18:54:20] <JT-Shop> Sweet!
[18:54:35] <willburrrr2003> nexst step is adjust the voltage output of the c6
[18:55:06] <willburrrr2003> what is the mdi command for turning the spindle on to a certain speed and then off ? my max speed is 1250
[18:55:47] <JT-Shop> same as the g code command
[18:56:13] <JT-Shop> S is speed, M3,4,5 are spindle control
[18:56:47] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop: BTW , a great big thanks for all your help! Been trying to get through it on my opwn for 2 days, and was getting frustrated
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[18:57:19] <willburrrr2003> ok I will go testing now :) can I change speeds while it is running or do I need to stop in between changes?
[18:57:23] <JT-Shop> that's why you do it step by step making sure each step works before you progress to next step
[18:57:36] <JT-Shop> you can change it as it runs
[18:57:55] <willburrrr2003> I learned a lot this morning about changin the HAL hehe been a good experience all around
[18:58:25] <willburrrr2003> ok, off to test and calibrate my card now...hopefully very soon running the spindle off of it :D
[18:58:59] <willburrrr2003> will let you know how it goes shortly if your still on
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[18:59:29] <JT-Shop> I'll be around somewhere
[19:11:09] <alex4nder> yoh
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[19:14:58] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop, just finished testing the scaling of my speed controller, I was expecting to get max voltage out of it with s1250, but instead max voltage is not until s3300...how can I change scaling so that s1250 gives freq for max voltage instead of s3300?
[19:16:07] <willburrrr2003> I set "setp stepgen.2.maxvel 1250" and thought that should do it , but no go
[19:24:48] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: you might have to adjust your scale offset or gain
[19:25:16] <willburrrr2003> ok, will give it a shot :) thanks
[19:25:46] * JT-Shop goes to grade the driveway
[19:41:44] <danimal_garage> hi
[19:41:48] <danimal_garage> happy 4th
[19:46:31] * Loetmichel is sitting in the battub ;-)
[19:46:46] <Loetmichel> +h
[19:47:00] <Loetmichel> *drip
[19:47:03] <Loetmichel> *drip*
[19:47:42] <Loetmichel> (good ibm x60, draining channes underneath the keyboard ;-)
[19:54:10] <danimal_garage> it's friggin hot
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[20:03:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You still alive?
[20:04:14] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, cleaning my office. should surface again in a few days :)
[20:04:46] -!- micges [micges!~ddd@cff34.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #emc
[20:04:49] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: doubtful =) You going to be around in a bit?
[20:06:14] <SWPadnos> we'll probably get tired by late evening
[20:10:13] <Loetmichel> SWPadnos; your nick plus cleaning the office had me reading SWPglados ;-)
[20:16:54] <JT-Shop> hi danimal_garage
[20:17:29] <danimal_garage> hi John
[20:17:33] <danimal_garage> how goes it
[20:17:47] <JT-Shop> not bad, getting ready to paint inside shop
[20:18:00] <danimal_garage> nice
[20:18:03] <danimal_garage> white?
[20:18:09] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:18:40] <JT-Shop> new construction primer first
[20:18:46] <danimal_garage> cool
[20:18:59] <danimal_garage> wanna paint mine hen you're done? :)
[20:19:03] <JT-Shop> it is a cool 66F in there
[20:19:16] <JT-Shop> ah, I have to move some equipment first
[20:19:27] <danimal_garage> 66? nice
[20:19:40] <danimal_garage> it's like 90 in here
[20:19:41] <JT-Shop> yea real cool
[20:19:47] <danimal_garage> i didn't turn the ac on in time
[20:20:14] <JT-Shop> it's 70 in the garage with almost no insulation except the ceiling
[20:20:35] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: where's here?
[20:20:49] <JT-Shop> 85 outside
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[20:23:55] <danimal_garage> san diego
[20:23:55] <danimal_garage> it's probably in the mid 90's here
[20:23:55] <danimal_garage> outside
[20:23:55] <danimal_garage> it's been hot as hell lately
[20:26:05] <Loetmichel> hmmm, here its about 27░c outside... and its about 10:24 PM ;-)
[20:28:02] <Loetmichel> (thats about 80F for the guys over the pond ;-)
[20:28:32] <danimal_garage> at least there's no humidity here
[20:29:05] <Loetmichel> danimal_garage: lucky one!
[20:29:22] * Loetmichel hat sweat today in the company like a waterfall
[20:29:25] <psha> yea, weather is very hot this year
[20:29:27] <psha> again :(
[20:29:33] <Loetmichel> had
[20:30:21] <psha> i guess in august we'll have lot of firest fires...
[20:30:36] <danimal_garage> i love global warming except for when it's hot out
[20:30:47] <Loetmichel> whe have visitors/customers from GD tomorrow so i had the workshop cleaned up and build some "potjemkin Villages"
[20:30:58] <Loetmichel> (looks like work now everywere ;-)
[20:31:24] <danimal_garage> i'm banking on the glaciers melting so i can have ocean front property
[20:31:44] <Loetmichel> and that with no AC in the building exŘpt in the RFI-chambers...
[20:31:52] <Loetmichel> and about90% humidity
[20:32:07] <Loetmichel> exept
[20:34:12] <psha> danimal_garage: heh, have you built high enought building to sit there when sea shore will come too close? :D
[20:36:03] <danimal_garage> no, i'm planning on it only rising as high as my street
[20:36:25] <Loetmichel> danimal_garage:optimist ;-)
[20:37:24] <Loetmichel> psha: he could also get some ideas from the Hawaiians: just get enough hydraulic cylinders in the walls of te building.
[20:37:30] <Loetmichel> problem solved ;-)
[20:39:56] <willburrrr2003> WEll things are going well with my speed controller. I have adjusted the scaling so that I get the voltage I need at my max rpm, and have hooked up my controller to my mini-lathe now. I can get it to vary speed nicely, and can reach what seems to be my max speed...however when I turn off the spindle, the motor still creeps along slowly. I don't think this is EMC2 causing this, I se a little over half a volt on the c6 speed co
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[20:46:52] <psha> Loetmichel: heh, also 4-6 legs and you'll get walking house :)
[20:48:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping
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[20:48:36] * Loetmichel is fishing for the shampoo bottle.. I should lay you all aside, 'cause the IBM x60 here ISND foamproof ;-)
[20:48:39] <Loetmichel> ISNT
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[20:56:51] <skunkworks> stupid random queston.. Can you use garlic fresh from the garden? Or does it have to be dried first?
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[21:02:36] <danimal_garage> for vampires, i believe it is effective imediately.
[21:03:27] <archivist_emc> it has to be milled on the cnc before use
[21:05:00] <alex4nder> skunkworks: you can use it fresh, but you have to be aware of the slight differences in flavor
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[21:05:11] <alex4nder> skunkworks: also the peeling is more of a pain
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[21:43:01] <andypugh> Hmm, from the forum:
[21:43:02] <andypugh> [ 644.874892] axis[1650]: segfault at 0 ip (null) sp bface17c error 4 in libnsl-2.11.1.so[110000+13000]
[21:43:13] <andypugh> That sounds unfortunate.
[21:43:29] <andypugh> EMC2 2.4.6
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[21:45:53] <mhaberler> it is about time we use decent execption handlers.
[21:46:35] <psha> andypugh: link?
[21:46:50] <mhaberler> I did a prototype which opens terminal with debugger window in that case
[21:48:33] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,9/id,6250/lang,english/
[21:48:55] <andypugh> Different exception handlers would remove all the mystery...
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[21:50:47] <mhaberler> what you mean by "different" - there are nobe
[21:50:50] <mhaberler> none
[21:51:35] <psha> andypugh: hm, i've anwsered that' question half year ago
[21:52:30] <psha> and in last question anwser is same - install libgl1-mesa-swx11
[21:52:55] <psha> exception handlers won't help in such cases... really
[21:53:58] <andypugh> psha: Ah, yes, I remember now.
[21:54:31] <mhaberler> it's called the "fly-by-night experience"
[21:54:40] LawrenceG is now known as ve7it
[21:54:54] <andypugh> Ah, I seem to have seen a post, with one new, and assumed it was a new post. Sorry chaps.
[21:56:04] <psha> i've replied but if somebody with more fresh head will guide him a bit it would be great
[21:56:07] <psha> now it's time to sleep
[21:56:18] <psha> i hope i've fixed all issues found by customer
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[21:56:31] <psha> and tomorrow i'll finish that project...
[21:57:11] <mhaberler> http://pastebin.com/dvdbVy4H
[21:57:24] <mhaberler> for you C-├Âlanders
[22:01:40] <skunkworks> alex4nder: Thanks!
[22:03:05] <psha> mhaberler: heh, in one of my first projects segv handler was responsible for lot of work :)
[22:03:17] <skunkworks> our y axis is still acting goofy. Need to dig into it. It F-errors mosting after it has been sitting for a while. The simulated tach sure made it smoother - but we still get a error after sitting. or sometimes when first up,
[22:03:24] <psha> since i've not found root cause of segvs i've added workaround to shutdown properly and start new instance :)
[22:03:28] <mhaberler> please define "work"
[22:03:57] <mhaberler> oh. Thats "standard procedure"
[22:03:59] <psha> in conjunction with watchdog process it gives us "nearly working" solution :)
[22:04:02] <skunkworks> We have an extra amp - so might just swap it out. It is either the amp or the servo. ;) It develops quite a ring
[22:04:30] <skunkworks> (oscillation)
[22:04:48] <psha> we have small conflict regarding state of code and licensing with my customer (and later boss) and since he desided not to disclose sources i've really lost any motivation :)
[22:05:12] <skunkworks> what makes me think it is the amp - twice now I have turned down the loop gain on the amp and it has gone away. maybe a dirty pot or something
[22:05:30] <psha> now i feel shame about that piece of code (it's even hosted on sf.net) but it's too late... :)
[22:06:38] <danimal_garage> skunkworks: isn't your y axis counterweighted or something?
[22:06:54] <skunkworks> yes
[22:07:07] <danimal_garage> could it be an issue with that? stiction or something?
[22:07:24] <skunkworks> maybe - will look into that too..
[22:07:26] <skunkworks> thanks
[22:07:33] <danimal_garage> that's a lot of weight
[22:07:48] <skunkworks> these are pretty big servos :)
[22:08:08] <skunkworks> you can move the head up by hand - twisting the servo shaft.
[22:08:11] <danimal_garage> true, but if it's not balanced, it could make tuning a bitch i'd imagine
[22:08:16] <danimal_garage> ah
[22:08:32] <skunkworks> but still - it does go down easier than up :)
[22:08:49] <skunkworks> (falls down ;))
[22:08:50] <danimal_garage> resolvers or encoders?
[22:09:04] <skunkworks> encoders. has not once lost postion though. been doing a lot of machining
[22:09:19] <skunkworks> I would have noticed.
[22:09:24] <danimal_garage> hall sensors?
[22:09:36] <skunkworks> nope - good old fashon brushed servos
[22:09:40] <danimal_garage> or are they brushed
[22:09:41] <danimal_garage> ah
[22:09:50] <danimal_garage> nm then
[22:11:03] <danimal_garage> i still gotta make some brackets for my servos so i can put the pullies and belts on
[22:11:38] <danimal_garage> it's direct drive right now, it needs some reduction
[22:11:56] <skunkworks> has it been running ok?
[22:12:48] <danimal_garage> yea but i keep it under 200ipm
[22:13:05] <skunkworks> heh - that is our max
[22:13:07] <danimal_garage> if i go over that, the drives warm up and it looses position (digital drives)
[22:13:22] <skunkworks> (we don't want to go above the original design)
[22:13:28] <danimal_garage> good call
[22:13:28] <skunkworks> (hard to get parts ;))
[22:13:31] <danimal_garage> yea
[22:14:43] <danimal_garage> i got encoders to mount on the ballscrews so i don't have to rely on the positioning feedback from the digital drives to EMC
[22:15:21] <danimal_garage> the servos have resolvers and the drives convert it to encoder outputs to go to the controller
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[22:20:34] <skunkworks> neat
[22:24:06] <danimal_garage> it's kinda hack i guess, but it's cheaper than buying new drives and servos
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[22:31:37] <skunkworks> we go with 'whatever works'
[22:32:04] <skunkworks> :)
[22:33:57] <danimal_garage> ha
[22:34:39] <danimal_garage> trying to finish the exhaust on my motorcycle
[22:35:08] <danimal_garage> i can't get some weld where i need it :/
[22:35:22] <tom3p> i think the notes for booting from cf would apply to a usb thumb drive, correct? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Install_To_CompactFlash
[22:35:33] <danimal_garage> yes
[22:35:36] <danimal_garage> i think
[22:35:38] <Jymmm> no
[22:35:43] <tom3p> hehe
[22:35:49] <danimal_garage> oh, booting, not installing
[22:35:54] <Jymmm> CF is electrically compatible with IDE
[22:36:08] <danimal_garage> ignore me
[22:36:36] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: did oyu say something?
[22:36:37] <tom3p> uh, i want to 'put' the live iso image on a thumb to get my new D150MO started
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[22:37:49] <Jymmm> tom3p: then try http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[22:38:12] <tom3p> ah, heard of that , thought it was windows tools, thx
[22:39:01] <Jymmm> tom3p: or get one of these... http://aphnetworks.com/reviews/zalman_zm_ve200
[22:39:06] <tom3p> cool, linux too ( saw that on SAIC website, the art institute of chicago was using emc2 :)
[22:40:29] <tom3p> really SSdrives are good? in Taiwan theyve tried to use CF for years, even invented the IndustrialCF 'std' they still fail...
[22:40:59] <tom3p> thx will try the unetbootin
[22:41:16] <Jymmm> they always will, there is a limited number of write cycles on CF/USB thumbdrives
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[22:48:22] <tom3p> http://blogs.saic.edu/axisofoutput/2010/09/17/cheap-cnc-linux-pc/
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[22:52:07] <tom3p> errr how big is the iso image 10.04 at http://www.linuxcnc.org/lucid/ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc1-i386.iso ???
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[22:54:20] <tom3p> 675.5 meg on a torrent site...
[22:59:27] <tom3p> df only reported 930meg free, so it was marginal
[23:01:59] <tom3p> no problem, namaroka crashed way before that :/
[23:03:13] <tom3p> wget!
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[23:20:54] <KimK> skunkworks: skunkworks_: Are you around? Happy 4th of July. Hope all is well there.
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[23:30:47] <andypugh> tom3p: That's quite a nice howto at saic
[23:31:37] <skunkworks> KimK: Thanks!
[23:31:44] <skunkworks> Same to you!
[23:33:42] <KimK> Hi Sam. Are you doing anything on SILC? (It's like IRC, only encrypted.) I saw a skunkworks channel or two there and I wondered about them.
[23:34:50] <skunkworks> no
[23:35:16] <andypugh> "skunkworks" sounds like the sort of name that encryption fans would like.
[23:36:15] <KimK> skunkworks: I realized that I could open a SILC account in Pidgin without registering anywhere, like IRC, so I decided to try it. I got it working, but I don't know any one to chat with outside their help windows, lol. Hi Andy.
[23:36:50] <andypugh> EMC2 does make nice tapers. For some reason it seems to make them better than a manual lathe, even if, on the manual, you don't move the compound.
[23:37:17] <skunkworks> heh
[23:37:59] <andypugh> I have a nice 3 degree taper on my ballscrew now with an M6 thread, and a nice 3 degree taper in a bearing seat, with an M8 thread. Can you see what it is yet?
[23:39:35] <KimK> andypugh: I'm afraid I have no guesses.
[23:39:54] <tom3p> its still not legal in many states
[23:39:58] <KimK> andypugh: A picture would give it away, I suppose?
[23:40:46] <andypugh> I can just tell that I will baffle myself with it in a few years. The idea is that I make an M8 grub-screw with an M6 section. That gets screwed all the way into the ballscrew. Then the bearing seat/extension is screwed on to the m8 section until the taper nearly makes up. Then I _unscrew_ the screw through a bore in the extension. Because M8 is coarser than M6, that pulls up the taper.
[23:41:55] <tom3p> can it pull more than 1 rev? ( it >is< clever)
[23:41:57] <andypugh> The reason is that there is no way to get a full-length ball-screw into the machine. And when it is in place there is no access. This way just needs a hex-key sized bore up the end of the shaft.
[23:42:28] <andypugh> I admit I stole the idea from Wohlhaupter.
[23:42:56] <andypugh> (though they use two drive pins, not a taper)
[23:43:41] <andypugh> It's quite a neat way to join two shafts without any extra diameter, or radial access.
[23:44:26] <Valen> andypugh: got a picture/diagram?
[23:44:46] <andypugh> So, a few years down the line, how likely am I to remember that there is a hex-socket down that hole, and that you turn it clockwise to release?
[23:45:42] <KimK> andypugh: Ha, you know you're going to have to buy two more of those Wohlhaupters now, don't you? One assembled, one disassembled/exploded, both mounted one above the other on a display plaque on your wall.
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[23:46:30] <andypugh> Valen: The Wohlhaupter version is this picture and the two that follow: https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5614119116650654722
[23:47:18] <andypugh> Imagine the same arrangement with with a tiny morse taper to join a ballscrew to an extension.
[23:47:18] <Valen> so the "bolt" has both left and right hand threads on it?
[23:47:35] <andypugh> No, they are both right-hand, but different pitches.
[23:47:47] <Valen> ahh
[23:48:05] <Valen> so as you turn it you move it .5 in on one side and .8 in on the other say
[23:48:20] <andypugh> So, effectively, it is being pulled up by a 0.25mm pitch thread, but one that is much stronger than a .25mm thread.
[23:49:51] <andypugh> In the boring head case, if you tried to do it with a conventional bolt, the head counterbore would remove all the drawbar thread. Doing it that way the hole only needs to be the size of the hex driver.
[23:50:28] <andypugh> It really is very clever, and I wish I had thought of it :-)
[23:51:02] <Valen> you could just use a bigger ballscrew ;-P
[23:51:42] <Valen> (wider that is)
[23:52:01] <Valen> any suggestions on straightening a ballscrew, ours seems a little wobbly
[23:52:25] <andypugh> V-blocks, dial indicator and a press.
[23:52:48] <Valen> now again with stuff that we have ;-P
[23:52:49] <andypugh> Just like motorcycle forks (or anything else)
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[23:53:16] <andypugh> Buy some V blocks, buy a dial indicator, buy a press...
[23:53:29] <Valen> not helping ;-P
[23:53:41] <Tom_itx> well then what have we to work with??
[23:53:43] <andypugh> Well, surely you have a dial indicator?
[23:53:49] <Valen> actually i'm not 100% sure where the issue is
[23:53:56] <Valen> i'm presuming its the screw
[23:53:57] <Tom_itx> step one
[23:54:00] <Tom_itx> figure out what's wrong
[23:54:06] <andypugh> And _everybody_ has V-blocks...
[23:54:09] <Valen> there is a cyclic error in ferror
[23:54:16] <Valen> on one axis
[23:54:38] <andypugh> Valen: Eccentric pulley?
[23:54:43] <Valen> as it spins ferror goes +ve and -ve in a 1:1 ratio with the screw
[23:54:47] <Valen> its direct drive
[23:55:01] <andypugh> Encoder or resolver?
[23:55:08] <Valen> linear scales
[23:55:49] <andypugh> it might be a lack of imagination, but I can't see a bent screw doing that.
[23:56:02] <Valen> its rather long
[23:56:05] <Valen> 800mm or so
[23:56:18] <Valen> i figured if it was bent it'd cause a varying load
[23:58:36] <andypugh> Hmm, and the load creates a second-order f-error?
[23:59:16] <andypugh> If you turn it by hand, can you feel it?
[23:59:45] <andypugh> I would have thought that it would need to be very stiff indeed to be noticable as an f-error.