#emc | Logs for 2011-07-03

[00:00:25] <pcw_home> I think you must have the latest 7I29 with the 2 pin green AUX power connector
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[00:00:50] <danimal_garage> hi
[00:01:00] <tehnorm> ok. we have both - got in the middle of the last rev.
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[00:03:51] <KimK> pcw_home, andypugh: Am I holding you guys up on the 7i49? I got involved with the docs editing and I thought that would take maybe a week. Ha. But I'm approaching the end now, I can get my build time back up to above 18 minutes, that's good, it was as low as 1.5 mins at one point. I expect to return to the 7i49 before too much longer.
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[00:04:33] <andypugh> KimK: Not a problem to me, but hatch789 has a mill to convert, and the 7i49 looks like a good fit.
[00:04:55] <andypugh> He has made enthusiastic noises about doing the driver himself
[00:05:56] <tehnorm> pcw_home: without detailing all the pins, getting high Ohms on a lot of the pins on the older board: ~3.85kOhm
[00:06:14] <pcw_home> Note encoder header pins are numbered:
[00:06:16] <pcw_home> 2468A
[00:06:18] <pcw_home> 13579
[00:06:34] <tehnorm> on the newer board, ~500kOhm on some pins
[00:06:55] <tehnorm> the newer board has never had aux power - only the backwards flat cable connector
[00:07:00] <pcw_home> No 0s?
[00:07:14] <tehnorm> a few 0s, do you need to know which ones?
[00:07:20] <KimK> andypugh: OK, duly noted. I'll try to hurry. Oh, if he does work on the driver, that's great too, but it will take more than just the driver. There are EMC2 mods to do as well.
[00:08:20] <KimK> andypugh: Well, I take that back, maybe he could get by for now as an "incremental encoder".
[00:08:44] <pcw_home> This is from AUXV+ to encoder V+ it shouls be a short circuits so 2.5V on encoder and 4.93 and V+AUX should not be possible
[00:09:01] <andypugh> I was imagining Hostmot2 having a "resolver counts, integrated" pin.
[00:10:08] <andypugh> The firmware can assume that a full 360 between servo threads is unlikely, and wrap round when it sees the angle go from 340 to 40 (for example)
[00:10:25] <tehnorm> AUXV+ to encoder pin 1 = 3.85kOhm
[00:10:36] <andypugh> But perhaps I have not thought about it hard enough>?
[00:10:41] <tehnorm> AUXV+ to encoder pin 6 = 0.3Ohm
[00:11:05] <hatch789> Thank you for the help Andy and for the input PCW ...so it looks like I need 1 part: 7i43-U-4 and then one more part 7i49? so that I can hook my current servo motors up to EMC2
[00:11:23] <hatch789> both boards from Mesa
[00:12:14] <pcw_home> Sure you have the encoder connect pins in the right order?
[00:12:55] <tehnorm> pretty sure...everything works out as expected on the bench without the 7i29
[00:14:10] <tehnorm> on the newer 7i29, which is AUXV+, top or bottom? i can't find an updated manual for it
[00:15:28] <pcw_home> Its pin one (the square pin) You can also cross check this by Ohming out to fkat cable oin 49 (flat cable power)
[00:16:16] <andypugh> KimK: Where are you? I guess if you are anywhere near hatch789 then you could work in the 7i49 together, as he has the hardware.
[00:16:26] <andypugh> (the resolvers, that is)
[00:18:42] <tehnorm> so high Ohms from AUXV+ to encoder V+ = blown 7i29?
[00:19:51] <pcw_home> Maybe but if you have low ohms from auxV+ to any encoder connector pin you may just be using the wrong pinout
[00:20:16] <tehnorm> but this is without the encoders connected?
[00:20:27] <pcw_home> YES
[00:21:57] <pcw_home> Nothing connected, just a bare 7I29, ohmmeter from AUXV+ to each of the 10 encoder pins, find and list any that are ~0 Ohms
[00:22:32] <tehnorm> surething - checking now
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[00:24:52] <tehnorm> only encoder pins 3 and 6 are ~0 ohms
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[00:27:19] <pcw_home> so you have the encoder connector pinned out wrong...
[00:27:50] <tehnorm> how so?
[00:28:25] <pcw_home> You are looking at it like IC pins not a double row header
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[00:29:13] <tehnorm> so then does the top row read 1-3-5-7-9?
[00:29:28] <pcw_home> Yep
[00:29:55] <tehnorm> ah haaa...
[00:30:01] <pcw_home> the row starting with pin 1 (square pad) does I should say
[00:30:14] <andypugh> No pin 0?
[00:30:28] <Tom_itx> :/
[00:30:37] <pcw_home> Only for special C connectors
[00:30:51] <Tom_itx> logic starts at 0 physical generally starts at 1
[00:33:16] <tehnorm> pcw_home: ok, this makes much more sense. would it be possible to have the 7i29 docs updated to reflect that? so the next set of folks don't stumble the same way?
[00:33:56] <andypugh> you are the only one to ever make that error :-)
[00:34:13] <tehnorm> also really appreciate you stepping through it - swapping connector pins now
[00:34:49] <andypugh> (Actually, I agree, I have stared at the docs for quite a while trying to figure out pin1 on the Mesa cards.
[00:35:44] <tehnorm> andypugh: yeah - it must be inherent EE knowledge but a few labels would do wonders!
[00:39:14] <tehnorm> also the square pad - think on the back? is about impossible to see when the board is fastened to the case
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[00:41:33] <KimK> andypugh: Currently, Omaha, Nebraska (central USA), although that could change. I have one or two resolvers myself, and I know someone that I can borrow a handful from. And I may have to work with you just a bit at first, until I get the hang of the Mesa basics. SPI, maybe?
[00:44:38] <pcw_home> tehnorm: Yeah its easy to forget that not everyone knows how headers are pinned out
[00:44:40] <pcw_home> The pin one end of the connector is labled on top which is sufficient if you know the standard
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[00:45:47] <pcw_home> A can add a top view numbered picture of the encoder connector
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[00:52:26] <andypugh> KimK: I think we can ignore the fact that the 7i49 uses SPI, we don't need to know. All the driver needs to do is put the velocity and position values direct from the registers on to a pin (and store the latter in a U64)
[00:53:15] <andypugh> Effectively the interface to EMC2 will be identical to the current encoder interface, with an extra velocity pin.
[00:53:52] <pcw_home> Right the SPI is hidden from the host (all handled by the DSP)
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[00:55:11] <andypugh> Is there a GTAG for resolver?
[00:56:17] <tehnorm> pcw_home: perfect!
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[00:56:56] <andypugh> tehnorm: I told you you would have to try harder than that to blow up a Mesa board.
[01:07:27] <pcw_home> Yes the resolver interface has its own GTAG
[01:08:55] <KimK> AFK for a while, but I'll scroll back.
[01:10:46] <tehnorm> this is much refreshing - re soldering pins now - should be able to test in a few
[01:18:17] <andypugh> The pressure relief valve on my compressor died. The little 1960s green plastic ball lost its plasticity.
[01:20:38] <skunkworks> pcw_home: question. have you played with tach simulation with amc drives?
[01:21:01] <skunkworks> and will the +/-10v output handle 10k impeadence?
[01:23:09] <skunkworks> amc drives have a 50kohm in series with a 10k for the tach input. This is based on 60v tach voltage max. Using thier formula for calculating the resistor to put in series with the 50k to make it work with 9.5ish volts I get a negative resistance :) (10v calculates out to 0 ohms)
[01:24:00] <skunkworks> *parallel with the 50k
[01:24:08] <pcw_home> No, have not played with tach simulation and yes 5K load is fine for 7I33 even lower is OK for 7I48 as it has a beefier PS
[01:24:10] <pcw_home> Sounds like 10V is default
[01:25:06] <pcw_home> well 60V default and 10V easy by shorting the 50K out
[01:25:26] <skunkworks> do you think it would work Ok?
[01:25:44] <skunkworks> I want to try simulated tach as on of the old tachs is acting goofy.
[01:26:55] <skunkworks> pcw_home: cool - I will use the 7i48 then
[01:27:22] <skunkworks> (I have both on the machine and a lot of extra +/-10v outputs on the 7i48
[01:28:10] <pcw_home> You may need to bump up the servo thread rate a bit for stability,
[01:28:12] <pcw_home> depends on how tight your tuning is and what your mechanical bandwidth is
[01:28:35] <skunkworks> pretty big machine
[01:28:40] <skunkworks> large old servos
[01:28:59] <skunkworks> and pretty high count encoders (2540)
[01:29:21] <skunkworks> so 60kish counts per inch
[01:29:31] <andypugh> 2540? That's a rather random count
[01:29:59] <skunkworks> I figured it was a metric thing
[01:30:16] <pcw_home> Are you already using the new PID comp with derivitive feeback input port?
[01:30:19] <skunkworks> yes
[01:30:51] <andypugh> Hmm, 7.0555555.. counts per degree
[01:31:57] <andypugh> But yes, nice convenient micron-per-count on a 10 TPI leadscrew...
[01:33:22] <tehnorm> gentlemen... we have lift off! http://imgur.com/s7clN
[01:34:39] <andypugh> Looks more promising
[01:34:39] <tehnorm> encoders on the x axis are functioning!
[01:35:08] <tehnorm> thank you all for the help!!!
[01:36:11] <skunkworks> tehnorm: what are you converting?
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[01:36:53] <tehnorm> an old CompuMill 2500 3 axis mill
[01:42:12] <skunkworks> neat
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[01:48:10] <skunkworks> hmm - the amp has a input called velocity input that has a range of +/-10v
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[01:49:00] <skunkworks> looks like I can just use that. thier circuit show that it goes right into the same input as the tach with only 10k in series
[01:49:47] <pcw_home> So already set up for +-10V
[01:50:50] <skunkworks> neat
[01:51:09] <theos> hmm
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[02:33:13] <skunkworks> well - I have one of the dac's set so max velocity outputs 9.5v. so now all I need to do is wire it up and test. but I think it is time to go home.
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[02:41:27] <KimK> You guys didn't say much, I'm back and things haven't scrolled off the screen yet, lol.
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[03:14:35] <alex4nder> KimK: what up
[03:17:41] <KimK> Not much, alex4nder, what's up there? Having a good 4th of July weekend?
[03:30:52] <theos> :)
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[03:37:43] <alex4nder> KimK: yah, it's good.. I'm epoxying inserts into a granite base, to mount my mill on.
[03:37:55] <alex4nder> I almost just epoxied the mill to the base though, so you gotta be careful. ;)
[03:39:00] <KimK> alex4nder: Oh, granite, nice base. How big a base, how big a mill?
[03:39:41] <alex4nder> KimK: small mill, a taig,.. 12"x12"x3.5" base.
[03:40:23] <alex4nder> I'm trying an experiment to cut down on any transmitted vibration, by using granite plates (tiles) insulated from each other using silicone.
[03:41:28] <hatch789> KimK you still online?
[03:41:34] <KimK> Well, it'll have a nice base, for sure. Oh, OK, let us know how that part works out.
[03:41:45] <KimK> hatch789: Yes, still here
[03:41:52] <hatch789> you don't happen to live in PA do you?
[03:42:20] <KimK> No, NE, sorry.
[03:42:42] <hatch789> darn it would be awesome to have an expert near me
[03:43:28] <KimK> Maybe I can be of help remotely, we'll see the next time you get stuck.
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[03:43:45] <toastydeath> question - why do you care about transmitted vibration
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[03:44:19] <KimK> hatch789: Sounds like you already got unstuck earlier, so you're probably OK for now?
[03:44:24] <toastydeath> securing all but the largest machine tools to a good surface provides minimal benefits
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[03:53:09] <hatch789> KimK: I would agree that I am unstuck but only from the position of not knowing whether or not the items in my Tree 200R were usable in a modern EMC2 deployment. Before today I wasn't even sure that my motors were servos. I was only making an educated guess. LOL
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[03:54:20] <KimK> hatch789: I call that good progress for one day.
[03:55:09] <hatch789> I'm trying to come up with a good solution that will balance cost / effort properly for me. I don't have a lot of cash but I am fairly resourceful and eager to learn. I'm also a programmer by trade so writing a driver should be at least familiar work for me if I have some examples to use first
[03:55:29] <hatch789> the biggest thing I want to ensure is that the pieces I order will work with my hardware.
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[03:56:06] <hatch789> I don't want to order incorrect boards
[03:57:35] <hatch789> if I put my scope some of the wire pairs that andypugh believes are my resolvers... will that tell us for sure we're headed in the right direction?
[03:58:29] <KimK> I'm coming to this late, I'm just now finding your picture link, looking now...
[03:58:31] <hatch789> he believes page 7 (pics 3 - 5) are my resolvers: http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_My_Projects/_Shop_Projects/Tree%20Journeyman%20200R%20Milling%20Machine&PageNum=7
[04:02:46] <hatch789> ok if you refresh page 7 I have added some text just now
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[04:06:42] <KimK> hatch789: Yes, looks like a resolver to me (six light wires, three pairs?). On your motor, you said four wires, two heavy and two light? Can you see the four brush holders, brushes replaceable from the outside of the motor? (not the two little ones on the tach.) OK, text good, except the resolver is attached directly to your ballscrew, not your spindle. Unless I don't understand what I'm looking at there.
[04:10:32] <KimK> hatch789: In your case the resolver appears to be directly coupled too, that's good. Sometimes they have a gear train coupling, that's less desirable, IMHO.
[04:10:41] <hatch789> http://oupower.com/_My_Projects/_Shop_Projects/Tree%20Journeyman%20200R%20Milling%20Machine/2011_0619_220008.jpg
[04:11:17] <hatch789> look at the servo motor you can see 1 of the 4 brush holes. They are replaceable from the outside.
[04:12:06] <hatch789> The resolver has a coupling that looks like thin wall rubber in a sort of figure 8 shape though the top of the figure 8 is 90 degrees to the bottom part
[04:12:42] <KimK> OK, excellent. And is that a ballscrew or an acme screw? It's too dark under the table there.
[04:12:42] <hatch789> it would basically keep the spindle from noticing any wobble from the ball screw in this case and it would keep vibration to a minimum
[04:13:05] <hatch789> not sure what the diff is ...I'll have to google them to see what they are
[04:13:14] <hatch789> I only said ball screw because you said it :)
[04:13:16] <KimK> The spindle? You mean the resolver spindle?
[04:14:42] <hatch789> the resolver spindle is linked with the rubber figure 8 thing to what I was calling the X axis spindle
[04:15:40] <hatch789> check page 7 pic 4 ...click it for hi-res
[04:16:55] <KimK> OK, it's just that you're confusing me with all these "spindles", I'm used to there being just one, lol. Oh, and on the earlier control electronics picture, is that a Westamp four-place amp filled to three places? It looks like it from the 1.5 or so I can see there.
[04:19:01] <hatch789> which pic? There is mention in my book on several pages of the Westamp product. sorry what do you call the thing like a leadscrew in the X and Y table axis?
[04:20:15] <hatch789> I don't see much difference in a ball screw vs acme screw accept acme screws seem more like a blunt thread squared off where a ball screw comes to a finer point at the top of each thread? Is that the difference? Also the ball thread looks more articulated
[04:22:31] <KimK> Take a look here, these guys are big on ballscrews and make a few acme screws too: http://www.nookindustries.com/home.cfm
[04:24:51] <KimK> The big practical difference is that generally if someone went to the trouble and expense of putting in a ballscrew, they probably also put in a double-preloaded ball nut, which means that there should be zero play in the screw/nut, which is great for CNC, of course.
[04:26:15] <KimK> With acme screws they generally only put in a single nut (so can't preload it against anything) and you're left with quite a dew thousandths of play between the nut and the screw. Not good for a lot of reasons.
[04:26:39] <KimK> s/ dew / few /
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[04:27:11] * KimK has been known to do the "Dew", though.
[04:31:09] <KimK> By now you've probably spotted a diagram, but ballscrew is short for recirculating-ball-bearing-screw, very low friction and very low inefficiency, both good things.
[04:33:02] <hatch789> ok cool it's really the piece that attaches to the screw that makes all the difference
[04:33:14] <hatch789> the screw threads themselves look quite similar
[04:33:34] <hatch789> I would have to go look tomorrow to see if it's a ballscrew or acme screw
[04:34:12] <hatch789> this was a CNC machine before and TREE didn't screw around so it was probably the best that could be had at the time. This was a 38K piece of hardware back when it was new in 83'
[04:34:21] <KimK> The nut? Yes, exactly. Well, no, acme threads have straight sides, ballscrew threads have an "arch" groove, usually, to contact the ball in two places.
[04:34:29] <hatch789> I have the original receipt LOL...
[04:34:49] <hatch789> ok
[04:35:03] <hatch789> so like I said before it looked like the ballscrew threads came to more of a point or peak
[04:35:12] <hatch789> where acme screw threads were much more square
[04:35:18] <KimK> I'll keep me fingers crossed that you have ballscrews, and you probably do.
[04:35:36] <hatch789> Also I just found in the book where it mentions that resolver coupling and resolver
[04:35:44] <hatch789> so those little 6 wire things are definitely resolvers
[04:35:54] <KimK> s/ me / my / (I didn't mean for this to be "talk like a pirate day", lol.)
[04:36:07] <hatch789> lol
[04:36:10] <hatch789> no problem
[04:36:32] <hatch789> ok so we can assume I have 2 resolvers in my system and 2 servo motors
[04:36:54] <hatch789> it appears that my servo motors have tachometers on the rear end of each
[04:38:05] <hatch789> it also appears to me that the servo motors are driven from AC power since it looks like they tie direcely into the X and Y transformer (page 5 first pic)
[04:39:44] <KimK> Yes, flexible couplings (of a variety of designs) are commonly seen when two rigidly mounted shafts meet. Two shafts never meet perfectly, not as perfectly as the ball bearings they're mounted in, anyway. And so if there wasn't a flex coupling in between, the ball bearings would beat each other to death, and the smallest one would lose.
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[04:40:06] <hatch789> if they are indeed driven from rectified AC current can I simply keep whatever is coming through the large wires (page 8 pic 1) the same and not mess with that?
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[04:43:18] <KimK> I'd take a look at that again. Westamp (and others) used an output smoothing inductor which is necessary, but can be ignored for purposes of analyzing the circuit. I'm guessing your heavy red and heavy black from the motor both go back and "feed through" the double-series inductor that you're calling a transformer (and with good reason, they do look very much like a transformer).
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[04:46:05] <hatch789> page 5 pic 1 is what I'm calling transformers but maybe they're double series inductors, as you say
[04:46:08] <KimK> Hopefully they were nice to you and had a red input going to a red output, and a black input going to a black output. That will make things easy to follow. If not, it can be confusing.
[04:46:40] <hatch789> either way I would imagine I can keep this side of things (the power side) the same and not change anything there ...right?
[04:48:35] <hatch789> ok so in your opinion where would I go from here. Is there some testing that I should do first to ensure that a 7i43-U4 and a 7i49 will be right for me?
[04:48:36] <KimK> Yes, you should not have to change anything there. And your WTF box is indeed the spindle contactor, as you guessed it might be.
[04:48:51] <hatch789> lol
[04:49:30] <KimK> Well, hopefully, someone has already given you a caution about runaway, that's the most important thing.
[04:49:39] <hatch789> ok then it's the low side (driver side) of the relays that contact the 3 phase
[04:49:49] <hatch789> runaway?
[04:50:54] <KimK> Yes, in this case 120VAC coils pulling in the spindle contactor, which will be (generally, in the US) either 240VAC or 480VAC, three-phase.
[04:51:31] <KimK> s/the spindle contactor/one side or the other of the spindle contactor/
[04:51:49] <hatch789> ok I think they're pulling in the contactors (relays) for the 3 phase on page 4 (pic 4 and 5) would you agree those are the true 3phase contactors for the spindle motor?
[04:53:02] <KimK> Yes, I would, although there is almost certainly a smaller relay (24vdc?) between the CNC control and the coils.
[04:53:19] <hatch789> something in this department isn't working right because my spindle only goes in forward right now reverse does nothing
[04:53:27] <KimK> s/a smaller/a pair of smaller/
[04:53:38] <hatch789> it's the buttons themselves on the front panel I think
[04:53:58] <hatch789> which is why I pulled that set of buttons (the whole panel) out to take a pic of it
[04:53:58] <KimK> Oh, I forgot to ask where are you getting your three-phase from, a rotary?
[04:54:26] <hatch789> yes rotary but it was confirmed by the guy I bought it from that reverse has not worked for some time. He said I think something is wired wrong
[04:54:50] <hatch789> I think it's just a bad or stuck relay or a poor contact... something stupid
[04:54:58] <hatch789> something easily fixed once I identify the issue
[04:55:14] <hatch789> maybe even the main reverse button on the front panel itself
[04:55:23] <KimK> OK. Well, that's easy to fix, anyway. If you *had* to pick one problem from a list, you picked the right one, lol.
[04:55:46] <hatch789> I'm not even worrying about that at this time
[04:55:50] <hatch789> I am focusing on the CNC.
[04:56:07] <hatch789> what's runaway?
[04:56:44] <KimK> Yes, I see that there are only two westamp cards, and only two output inductors, is this a 2-axis mill? With a hand quill only? Can anything be done about that?
[04:57:17] <KimK> It would be nice if you could computerize Z too.
[04:57:51] <hatch789> sure
[04:58:12] <hatch789> the Z axis could be put on the spindle I bet. Right now it's a hand control like a drill press
[04:58:16] <KimK> Did they leave you a quill motor? Any pictures of that area?
[04:58:27] <hatch789> but I bet it could be geared
[04:58:36] <hatch789> yeah page 2 -4 I think
[04:58:47] <KimK> looking...
[05:00:01] <hatch789> page 2 last pic
[05:00:03] <hatch789> enlarge it
[05:00:52] <hatch789> The knee is already powered by a 3phase motor so it may be possible to swap this standard motor with a servo motor?
[05:04:36] <KimK> Well, that's possible, but it's not a great option for a lot of reasons. Is there air assist?
[05:05:30] <hatch789> you mean compressed air helping it move?
[05:05:40] <KimK> Yes, air counterbalance?
[05:05:45] <hatch789> no
[05:05:51] <KimK> OK.
[05:05:52] <hatch789> just a 1/2 HP motor
[05:06:35] <hatch789> if I put it on the spindle I'd have 5 inches of Z travel
[05:06:40] <hatch789> is that pretty poor?
[05:09:51] <KimK> On the quill, you seem to have a rotary stop, much like Bridgeport's "Spindle Wizard' did. You'll probably have to lose that. The left side I can't see too clearly, but maybe you could get a timing pulley on the quill axle for plan B? Plan A would be better, but is a lot more work. You'd have to add your own Z motion ballscrew, and connect it to the quill, maybe with the quill gear removed, maybe not. But no quill handle.
[05:11:15] <KimK> Five inches isn't bad for the quill on a knee mill. You can have the quill as Z and have the knee as W on a DRO if you like. More axis inputs to consider though.
[05:11:55] <KimK> Does the knee still have a hand-crank for final tweaking?
[05:12:01] <hatch789> yes
[05:12:05] <KimK> OK.
[05:12:41] <hatch789> I already thought of doing that. I could let the 5" be CNC and if I need to go deeper have my part PAUSE. move the knee up 4" or so to an exact spot and resume
[05:13:41] <hatch789> if I'm careful to always load the backlash properly when starting pieces then this should work fine ...right?
[05:13:44] <toastydeath> retouch after moving it
[05:13:58] <hatch789> or there's that :) yup
[05:13:59] <toastydeath> not in xy
[05:14:00] <toastydeath> but in z
[05:14:04] <hatch789> I know
[05:14:18] <hatch789> so I like the idea of keeping the knee powered the way it is
[05:14:21] <hatch789> no changes there
[05:14:31] <hatch789> putting auto Z on the spindle seems far less painful
[05:15:09] <hatch789> I can probably change that knurled wheel on the left side for a timing belt pully
[05:16:26] <hatch789> At any rate I can mess with Z later ...right?
[05:17:38] <KimK> I was laughing about this problem with someone else recently, your situation is even worse because of the No-Z/Quill/Knee situation. You start out saying, OK, I have a two axis mill, so I need a two-axis control. But then, wait, maybe I can add Z, so that's three. Oh, and I want to do rigid tapping and/or "lathe" threading (part in chuck), so I want a spindle encoder, that's four. And a DRO on the knee, that's five. And a handwheel, that's six axe
[05:17:38] <KimK> s. Now, did I forget anything, lol?
[05:17:42] <KimK> Oops
[05:18:19] <toastydeath> how are handwheels axes
[05:18:28] <toastydeath> or dros
[05:18:33] <KimK> Well, I'm counting inputs here.
[05:18:40] <KimK> "encoder inputs"
[05:18:54] <KimK> True, no output needed.
[05:18:58] <hatch789> yeah you're tired
[05:19:14] <hatch789> speaking of DRO's I have 2
[05:19:24] <hatch789> the glass things
[05:19:50] <hatch789> they're on my enco mill that I purchased but someone took the DRO readout unit off of the mill before I got to buy it
[05:19:57] <hatch789> they left the glass things
[05:20:02] <KimK> (No output needed on the handwheel, anyway, maybe you *do* need an output on the DRO, if you decide to try to close the loop on that knee, lol!)
[05:20:31] <hatch789> can I plug those into my PC (25 pin connector) somewhere?
[05:21:25] <hatch789> it would be great to not need the expensive DRO box and just use EMC2 instead to read those glass scales
[05:21:35] <KimK> Using those scales on the knee could be kind of difficult in your situation, I suspect the Y scale is too short for the knee (but maybe I'm wrong?) and the X scale is way too long for the knee.
[05:22:00] <hatch789> oh well
[05:22:02] <hatch789> it was a thought
[05:22:11] <hatch789> I'll have to measure tomorrow
[05:22:21] <hatch789> not going out to the shop at this hour
[05:22:22] <KimK> But yes, I imagine that EMC2 can read them using most encoder inputs you might buy.
[05:22:30] <hatch789> cool
[05:22:42] <hatch789> ok so where do I go from here
[05:22:45] <hatch789> before I fall asleep
[05:23:06] <hatch789> do I need to do some resolver tests or something before I can settle on buying the 7i43-U-4
[05:23:15] <hatch789> and 7i49 boards?
[05:23:21] <KimK> You could even incorporate them into your system, which means you now want two more encoder inputs for eight total, lol!
[05:24:02] <hatch789> ...I have to keep costs down. Money is a large problem for me working on my shoestring budget
[05:25:30] <KimK> I could direct your attention to this on the wiki where Stuart used two input devices: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Combining_Two_Feedback_Devices_On_One_Axis
[05:26:27] <KimK> Sure, we're all fighting the money problem. That's one of the reasons I like the Mesa system, it's very flexible and expandible.
[05:29:30] <hatch789> I will read that wiki. tomorrow :) Sounds interesting
[05:30:12] <hatch789> do I need to do some resolver tests or something before I can settle on buying the 7i43-U-4 and 7i49 boards or is it pretty much known now from the pieces we know of my system; that these 2 parts are what I will need?
[05:34:11] <KimK> Well, you could think about that for awhile. You can get two kit encoders for less money than you'd pay for the 7i49. Actually, $184 / $87.97 = x2.09 And if you got the 7i49, everything would have to be resolvers, Z, spindle, etc. No glass scales, no handwheels, etc. Unless you got a second card.
[05:34:37] <KimK> You'd be shopping for more resolvers, got any?
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[05:35:23] <hatch789> no I don't have any more
[05:35:49] <hatch789> and the resolvers are a bit problematic from what I have read or at least semi-complicated
[05:36:40] <KimK> OK, well, this might be a good time to sleep on it? I'll be around this weekend for more Q's, no holiday stuff for me that I know of yet, anyway.
[05:36:52] <hatch789> but the glass scales are probably shorter than my TREE. They're coming off of a 42" enco
[05:37:20] <hatch789> and the scales are expensive
[05:37:37] <hatch789> whereas I have 2 working encoders already
[05:38:03] <hatch789> hand wheels are no big deal to me if I have an easy jog system. The computer keyboard jog system is awesome
[05:39:28] <hatch789> I could mill with jog better than I could by hand anyway. Smoother so long as I get the feed rate right
[05:40:47] <KimK> OK. Maybe you can sell the scales if you can show that they work (with your scope). And don't forget to ask about runaway. Short version: Servomotors can "take off by themselves", and you don't want to hit a mechanical stop and ruin your nice ballscrews, so leave the motors out at first, until you've got your ducks in a row.
[05:41:15] <hatch789> I will
[05:41:44] <hatch789> plus i plan on hard-wiring the electronic switch stops in a manner that would kill power to the servo's anyway
[05:44:02] <KimK> That's good, but there's still a lot of rotating energy to brake off, and fast, usually. There may be a "dump" relay on your motors, we'll have to look later.
[05:44:38] <hatch789> ok night for now
[05:44:44] <hatch789> thanks for the Q/A session
[05:44:56] <KimK> OK, goodnight. No problem.
[05:44:57] <hatch789> this stuff has me so excited
[05:45:06] <KimK> Ha, its' fun.
[05:45:13] <hatch789> I am so ready to get this hooked up
[05:45:26] <hatch789> I was running the EMC2 tonight just the computer by itself
[05:45:34] <hatch789> just to see what it was doing. It's amazing
[05:45:39] <hatch789> all of this power for free.
[05:46:00] <hatch789> and with Linux I should be able to install a CAD system and CAM system all on the same PC
[05:46:20] <KimK> Yes, it's pretty slick. Plus, I don't use Windows anymore, I use 10.04 LTS for everything now.
[05:46:21] <hatch789> so I could tweak parts right on this same computer, re-cam them and run them right through EMC2 then
[05:46:40] <hatch789> I have (believe it or not) 7 or 8 linux servers running right now
[05:46:54] <hatch789> I ONLY use windows at work because we have to and here at home for gaming
[05:47:21] <KimK> I hope to have a PPA for installing HeeksCNC on 10.04 LTS, but not till after I finish the 7i49 and some other stuff.
[05:47:43] <hatch789> plus I have 3 or so VBox installs of Linux at work just to mess with stuff when I'm learning
[05:47:59] <KimK> Excellent, what distros?
[05:48:18] <hatch789> PCLinuxOS is my workhorse for every day use
[05:48:25] <hatch789> and CentOS for my web servers
[05:48:41] <hatch789> my first Ubuntu install was with EMC2 distro 2 days ago
[05:50:10] <hatch789> had to put the alternate libgl-mesa package on instead because my AXIS kept locking up my whole system as soon as it started
[05:51:11] <hatch789> I've also done Mandrake Linux and a bit of RedHat (not much though).
[05:51:21] <KimK> OK, great. Welcome to Ubuntu and EMC2. For your Ubuntu desktop (but maybe not your CNC machine, lol) you might look into Medibuntu, an add-on for DVDs, MP3s, etc.
[05:51:54] <hatch789> ok I'll take a look at it
[05:52:09] <hatch789> right now my EMC2 install is the only Ubuntu distro I have running
[05:52:10] <KimK> All the stuff Ubuntu has licensing issues with they throw in there.
[05:52:21] <hatch789> lol cool
[05:52:36] <hatch789> I figure there's free CAD and CAM software for Linux also
[05:52:42] <KimK> "We don't know anything about that."
[05:53:08] <hatch789> heh right :)
[05:54:19] <KimK> HeeksCNC is getting pretty good, but the (built) Linux version is sometimes behind the Windows version, some build it themselves, but I suspect many don't bother.
[05:55:01] <KimK> A friend said a year ago it was "unusable" for what he wanted to do, now he says it worked great (for him).
[05:55:31] <KimK> OK, goodnight.
[05:56:29] <hatch789> night
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[06:14:54] <alex4nder> sick, it looks like my new base works.
[06:14:59] <alex4nder> the epoxy set enough to bolt the machine down.
[06:21:57] <toastydeath> alex4nder, what are you hoping to accomplish by bolting the machine down
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[06:38:48] <MrUnshine> hmm, a cold saw cutter blade .. the round ones that is, what would they be made off ?
[06:38:52] <MrUnshine> its hard like hell atleast =)
[06:40:26] <alex4nder> toastydeath: having a machine that won't tip over easily.
[06:40:41] <alex4nder> if I can cut down on vibration transmitted through the table, that'd be a bonus.,
[06:40:47] <MrUnshine> hss
[06:41:11] <toastydeath> mount it elevated on grouted in bolts
[06:41:18] <toastydeath> in your new table thing that you are making
[06:41:23] <Jymmm> KimK: Can you think of a purpose for a luggable computer?
[06:41:30] <alex4nder> toastydeath: it's a done deal.. my base works
[06:41:34] <toastydeath> oh, nice
[06:42:10] <alex4nder> there's also the issue, I didn't want to drill bolt holes if i go to flood coolant.
[06:42:39] <alex4nder> every taig setup I've seen where they drill through their catch, they have to slather on sealant.
[06:42:48] <KimK> Jymmm: No, but I've got one I'm still hanging onto too! You go first.
[06:43:01] <Jymmm> I have one of these, adn I'm not sure if I want to keep or sell... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360363411316
[06:43:09] SSN-21 is now known as AC-130U
[06:46:50] <Jymmm> KimK: Is the the kind you have?
[06:48:18] <KimK> Jymmm: Ha, no, yours is much more recent than mine, mine is more in the "vintage collectible" category, lol. Yours actually has some prospective uses.
[06:49:34] <Jymmm> KimK: Ah, ok. I also have a rolling case for it too
[06:50:00] <Jymmm> KimK: like the kind that ppl carry on planes, but slightly bigger
[06:50:17] <Jymmm> telescoping handle, wheels etc
[06:50:25] <Jymmm> pockets for cables
[06:50:26] <KimK> Sure, that should help.
[06:50:53] <Jymmm> KimK: Yeah, I'm just not sure what to do with it is all.
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[06:57:30] <Jymmm> KimK: I thought about tossing in a modern mobo for I/O, wiring in a KVM switch, and maybe even a WRT54GL for shits and giggle
[06:58:07] <Jymmm> KimK: Then add a hotswap tray for HDD's
[06:58:49] <KimK> Jymmm: Sure, it would be handy for several things. Well, at least you're not burdened with one of these. This was about the first portable computer built in almost-recognizable "laptop"(?) form. But at 14 lbs, it won't stay on anybody's lap long. Built-in B&W LCD display with 6:1 contrast ratio (no, that's not a typo). Fortunately, you could plug a VGA monitor into it (640x480, Woo-Hoo!) http://search.ebay.com/250847474573
[06:59:52] <Jymmm> Well, this is limited to 1024x768
[07:00:11] <KimK> See, now that's usable at least.
[07:00:17] <Jymmm> true
[07:00:23] <Jymmm> But for WHAT =)
[07:01:28] <Jymmm> It's still a PS/2 kybd/mouse
[07:01:44] <KimK> Especially since there's the R and R (randr) thing where you can have it maje a virtual desktop that pans and tilts, I did that to mine for when things *still* won't fit, I can go up to 4096 x 4096, I think.
[07:02:35] <KimK> s/maje/make/
[07:03:09] <Jymmm> Ew
[07:03:24] <Jymmm> I've alwasy disliked that
[07:03:44] <Jymmm> the whole virtual resolution thing
[07:04:31] <KimK> How about a portable EMC2 system? Does it have a PCI slot? Or a parallel port? (Yes, I dislike it too, I keep it off (level 0) unless I need it. I can go levels 1,2,3 if I do.
[07:05:56] <Jymmm> KimK: 6 PCI, 1 ISA, 1 AGP, 1 Paraport, 2 Serial
[07:07:49] <KimK> Excellent, so a little portable EMC2 demo deal, and a little servo-in-a-box (or built-in?) and a little-stepper-in-a-box (or built-in) and you're good to go?
[07:07:51] <Jymmm> P3 733
[07:08:34] <Jymmm> KimK: Well, I'm actually getting ready to sell my router.
[07:08:59] <KimK> Oh, well, does your router come with a control?
[07:09:09] <Jymmm> a pc
[07:09:13] <Jymmm> and a laptop
[07:09:33] <KimK> Ah, OK. Don't need this then.
[07:10:07] <KimK> Well, I'll think about it, maybe something will come to me.
[07:10:22] <Jymmm> And I have another laptop for the laser, so don't need it for that either
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[07:12:10] <Jymmm> KimK: =)
[07:12:37] <KimK> Yeah, he didn't stay long, did he?
[07:12:46] <Jymmm> nope
[07:12:58] <KimK> I need a water/ice refill, back in a couple of minutes.
[07:13:04] <Jymmm> k
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[07:19:22] <KimK> back
[07:19:26] <Jymmm> KimK: WB
[07:19:50] <Jymmm> KimK: I figure someone that needs a "whole" PC instead of a laptop
[07:22:19] <KimK> Jymmm: Getting a bigger router? Or getting out of routing?
[07:24:18] <Jymmm> KimK: I got discouraged with mine, even after I bought all the parts to build a new controller. It takes a LOT of room, and I have a laser now. I may keep a few choice controller components for the future, but that's about it.
[07:24:56] <Jymmm> KimK: I'd rather bough the G540 for any future projects/needs. It's small and I have a PERFECT portable enclosure for it.
[07:25:43] <KimK> OK. Got any machine tools over there? Any of them on EMC2?
[07:26:06] <Jymmm> No, just the router
[07:26:36] <KimK> OK. Was your vacuum deal for router dust or laser smoke?
[07:27:06] <Jymmm> the dust collector and air scrubber? Those were for the laser
[07:27:46] <KimK> OK, I guessed it was probably one or the other.
[07:32:06] <Jymmm> KimK: I have *SO* much stuff around here I've held on forever, it's just time to let some of it go (probably to make room for new junk I'll hold onto forever =) lol
[07:33:10] <KimK> Hey, fun, if you put it on eBay or Craigslist, let us know.
[07:33:39] <Jymmm> KimK: What, you interested in it?
[07:34:39] <KimK> No, I don't need a router, but I like to look at at all kinds of stuff.
[07:34:54] <Jymmm> KimK: Oh, I meant the luggable.
[07:35:00] <Jymmm> ^thought you
[07:36:38] <KimK> I don't myself, but I'll keep it mind, maybe I'll think of something or someone that needs it. Plus in low-budget mode here.
[07:36:58] <Jymmm> ok, cool
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[08:43:49] <MrUnshine> damn carbide bites alot better in hard material then tool steel =)
[08:44:28] <MrUnshine> tried just with a carbide lathe tool to scrape the surface and it realy cuts it well even tho the tool steel just glides over it
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[12:10:18] <jthornton> I hope everyone is having a nice weekend and those of us in the USA are having a longer weekend
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[12:37:19] <HDB10> Hi All, looking for someone to do a small piece of programming in hal for a project I am working on will pay for the work?
[12:40:02] <jthornton> what are you trying to do?
[12:45:40] <HDB10> I have a project where I am placing rubber in glass. A simple opto device will detect if it is the correct position. If not the A axis will move as 10 deg and back again.
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[12:46:14] <jthornton> just use a probe routine
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[12:47:34] <HDB10> I am using this now and this will not work as there is more to it than that unfortunately.
[12:49:34] <jthornton> your description must be lacking some critical details
[12:49:40] <HDB10> I need to make conditional functions for this process.
[12:50:02] <jthornton> O calls do that
[12:50:24] <HDB10> Yes I would prefer to contact you by Email if possible.
[12:51:19] <jthornton> I'm sorry but I don't really have time to spare right now
[12:51:28] <jthornton> is this top secret?
[12:51:52] <HDB10> Do you know of someone that could assist please ?
[12:52:43] <HDB10> I intend to be lodging a patent shortly.
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[13:26:45] <jthornton> so if I create the crucial code for your patent I'll be one of the patent holders and be a millionaire and can retire?
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[13:34:54] <HDB10> Hahaha ! I wish :-)
[13:41:08] <theos> :P
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[13:53:42] <JT-Shop> I want to be a millionaire too :)
[13:57:12] <HDB10> Yep I been at it for years. Never had much luck at doing it. :-)
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[13:58:45] <HDB10> I think I'll go to bed as it is getting a bit later now. Catch up with you in a day or two. Cheers H.....
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[14:05:32] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog/photography/01309635537
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[14:33:42] <JT-Shop> alex_joni: cool photos
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[15:14:32] <Tom_itx> another failed get rich quick scheme?
[15:14:46] <Connor> ?
[15:17:06] <Tom_itx> <jthornton> so if I create the crucial code for your patent I'll be one of the patent holders and be a millionaire and can retire?
[15:17:14] <JT-Shop> LOL
[15:17:32] <jdhNC> connor: any progress with your mill?
[15:17:54] <Tom_itx> finally got my pendant mostly wired
[15:18:16] <Connor> Not much.. Saving up $$ at the moment.. I ordered some alum stock for the conversion.. Got a 4" Lathe Chuck with R-8 shank on it..
[15:18:39] <Connor> I've not cut the first thing with it.. still shopping for the vise and end mills.
[15:18:51] <Connor> but, slow and steady wins the race. :)
[15:19:00] <jdhNC> yep
[15:19:06] <Tom_itx> unless it's over before you start
[15:19:28] <Connor> Endmills, Vice, boring head, and some lath bits.. all on my shopping list..
[15:19:31] <jdhNC> supposedly, mine has been handed off to the shipping company
[15:19:38] <Connor> That's good.
[15:19:53] <Connor> I need to get a electrican to go under my house.
[15:19:55] <jdhNC> I had to reorder, then they internally swapped my order around
[15:20:04] <jdhNC> when I reordered, it came up $200 more
[15:20:11] <Connor> Oh geez.
[15:20:41] <jdhNC> I emailed them friday to make sure they adjust the total.. no work back yet though.
[15:20:49] <Connor> I had 2 circuits running into my shop. (Was a launder room), but in a efert to save money.. I had the plumber try to re-use the 220 line..
[15:21:13] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: you got a photo of your pendant?
[15:21:14] <Connor> but, after they cut the line, it was too much work to move it vs running a new one..
[15:21:20] <jdhNC> heh
[15:21:24] <Tom_itx> not complete
[15:21:28] <Connor> so, it's just hanging their.. dead..
[15:21:39] <Connor> and I can't really get too it.. I tried.. too big.. and bad back.
[15:21:47] <JT-Shop> that's why you don't have your plumber do your electrical work
[15:21:59] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[15:22:02] <jdhNC> a 100ft roll of 10/3 used to be practically free
[15:22:08] <Connor> so, need a skinny electrician.. I didn't. I just needed them to move the line.. I wired it in.
[15:22:49] <Tom_itx> call jt, he'll wire it
[15:23:07] <Connor> I have it wired to opposite phase that the other circuit is on. dedicated 20amp.. 120 now..
[15:23:16] <Connor> just need to have it spliced together.
[15:23:40] <jdhNC> find a local high school kid :)
[15:23:46] <Connor> and while they're under their.. I'm going to have them run a CAT5E for me.. and do my Rapid Run HDMI cable for bedroom TV.
[15:24:26] <Connor> My Insulation under the house it coming down.. looks like a total mess underneith.
[15:24:40] <Connor> okay.. back in a bit, running to Waffle house to pick up our to-go order.
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[15:30:38] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: Looking Good!
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[15:31:03] <JT-Shop> did you use TTT for the engraving?
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[15:32:39] <Tom_itx> ttt?
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[15:33:16] <Tom_itx> it was a rush job to get it done
[15:33:23] <Tom_itx> i used my cam and a tiny centerdrill
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[15:33:52] <Tom_itx> i should have ground a single point cutter for it
[15:34:18] <Tom_itx> it would have turned out better
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[15:38:32] <jthornton> True Type Tracer, but after looking I see the text in an arc and you can't do that with TTT
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[15:41:34] <hatch789> test
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[15:42:57] <GermainAdrian> hi everyone
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[15:49:53] <JT-Shop> test failed... reset igniter
[15:55:12] <GermainAdrian> guys, whats the easiest way to make a sliding rail?
[15:55:35] <jthornton> get a drawer slide from Homo Depot
[15:55:35] <GermainAdrian> can you order them at all? or is it always custom for the application
[15:55:47] <GermainAdrian> jthornton: too short
[15:55:57] <jthornton> how precise and how long does it have to be
[15:55:57] <Tom_itx> you can order anything
[15:55:58] <GermainAdrian> and it would be in vertical position, drawer slides wont work like that
[15:56:11] <jthornton> need more information
[15:56:13] <GermainAdrian> jthornton: not very precise, im building a motorized sit-or-stand desk
[15:56:24] <GermainAdrian> so there will be to rails on each side, powered by linear actuators
[15:56:30] <jthornton> tube in a tube?
[15:56:34] <GermainAdrian> to make the desk less flimsy, i'd like secure rails
[15:56:47] <GermainAdrian> yes, but would that be fitted closely enough not to wobble?
[15:56:56] <jthornton> that's up to the builder
[15:56:56] <GermainAdrian> and yet not too much friction so that it can slide
[15:57:14] <jthornton> that too is up to the builder how he fits them up
[15:57:28] <GermainAdrian> yes, but can i order this kind of parts?
[15:57:31] <GermainAdrian> i cant think of anything
[15:57:34] <GermainAdrian> that would be similar
[15:57:35] <jthornton> for example you could make some delrin parts to take up the slack at both ends
[15:57:44] <jthornton> yes you can buy it from McMaster Carr
[15:58:36] * jthornton continues the search for the missing tube of super glue
[15:58:44] <GermainAdrian> thanks jthornton
[16:00:09] <GermainAdrian> wow mcmaster carr has everything. and ofc they wont ship to canada. damn.
[16:01:24] <JT-Shop> you have to find a buddy in USA and ship to him then ship to you or find a Canadian mcmaster carr
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[16:02:20] <GermainAdrian> well, im not too far away from the border, but it would be a 2hr trip
[16:02:33] <GermainAdrian> and there are warehouses that specialize in that sort of thing
[16:04:30] <jthornton> LOL, I'm 2 hours from anything here in swamp east missouri
[16:05:01] <GermainAdrian> there has to be a supplier near me, but its so difficult to find anything locally, it doesnt make sense
[16:05:21] <GermainAdrian> just 20 mins of me there is a city of warehouses, and i cant find local suppliers for stuff all the time
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[16:30:20] <ries> GermainAdrian: I consider that close, I am lucky if I can find anything in this country :D
[16:34:35] <GermainAdrian> what country is it
[16:34:48] <GermainAdrian> your ip doesnt look cdn
[16:36:21] <ries> GermainAdrian: Ecuador
[16:37:03] <Connor> Tom_itx let me see your pendant
[16:37:30] <Tom_itx> i went the 'get it done' route
[16:38:11] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[16:38:22] <Connor> Cool.
[16:38:25] <Tom_itx> found an alum box at the surplus so i went with it
[16:38:32] <Connor> Nice.
[16:38:38] <syyl> yeah
[16:38:43] <syyl> it has all you need
[16:38:48] <Connor> Mine is in a giant radio shack box ATM
[16:38:50] <syyl> no fancy displays etc
[16:38:54] <syyl> like it :)
[16:39:03] <Tom_itx> i might add a couple leds above the buttons
[16:39:07] <Connor> Mine has fancy display. :)
[16:39:12] <Tom_itx> but really not needed
[16:39:23] <syyl> and it looks as robust, as you could hammer a nail into the wall with it :)
[16:39:59] <Tom_itx> it's going on a sherline for now so it's probably more rugged than the mill
[16:40:17] <syyl> hrhr
[16:41:01] <Tom_itx> it's got 1/2 a parport cable on it now
[16:41:01] <GermainAdrian> ries: at least labour is cheap in equador, i'd just hire somebody to make it custom for me
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[16:51:18] <ries> GermainAdrian: You would think that, except that cannot work according to specification and they don't have the tools
[16:51:58] <ries> For example a pinion(module 1.5, 22 tooth) would cost here about 45 USD, and will not be according to spec!!
[16:53:16] <GermainAdrian> why cant they make it properly
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[16:54:42] <ries> GermainAdrian: I have been wondering that myself...
[16:54:55] <ries> I guess tools and lack of education
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[17:32:58] <IchGuckLive> Hi all in the Width World
[17:33:15] <IchGuckLive> tomorrow big 4th of July party
[17:37:04] <psha> logger[psha]: .
[17:50:24] <hatch789> hey guys how do you het stuff from heekscad into gcode for emc to use?
[17:52:09] <MrUnshine> using heekscnc? :)
[17:53:31] <IchGuckLive> MrUnshine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAVkVawm6pM
[17:53:44] <MrUnshine> huh ? :P
[17:53:50] <MrUnshine> why to me? :)
[17:54:24] <IchGuckLive> i did the CRC programing for EMC2 postpro to Heekscnc
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[17:54:32] <IchGuckLive> MrUnshine: B)
[17:54:44] <IchGuckLive> sorry hatch789 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAVkVawm6pM
[17:55:41] <IchGuckLive> het stuff what does this mean
[17:56:50] <IchGuckLive> transfering ?
[17:57:25] <hatch789> I meant to say "get" not het
[17:57:45] <IchGuckLive> look at the simple tutorial
[17:58:03] <hatch789> I am now
[17:58:21] <IchGuckLive> hatch789: witch OS and witch Heekscad Version
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[18:04:51] <hatch789> I'm using Ubuntu 10.04 build (ISO)
[18:05:01] <hatch789> oh sorry that's eMC
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[18:05:03] <IchGuckLive> ok
[18:05:11] <hatch789> heekscad .18
[18:05:26] <hatch789> running on windows right now because I'm having trouble building the source in Ubuntu
[18:05:28] <IchGuckLive> did the tutorial work for you and gave you a idee Howtodo
[18:05:35] <hatch789> yes kind of
[18:05:41] <hatch789> wondering if I need some plugins
[18:05:54] <IchGuckLive> no
[18:06:20] <IchGuckLive> on windoes the Heekscnc has the heekscad includet
[18:06:27] <hatch789> ok I'll have to give it a try. I have bookmarked that video
[18:06:39] <hatch789> does that save the g-code as a file for you then?
[18:06:48] <hatch789> he kind of stopped right after the g-code was generated
[18:06:50] <IchGuckLive> what is you major miling wood or brass or steel
[18:07:05] <hatch789> http://OUPower.com you can see my new toys there
[18:07:25] <hatch789> I purchased (finally after 10 years of wanting them) a used mill and lathe
[18:07:33] <hatch789> took a loan from our house account to do it :)
[18:07:46] <hatch789> gotta pay that back out of my allowance money. but it was worth it
[18:07:54] <hatch789> just got done rebuilding my clutch in my lathe
[18:07:57] <IchGuckLive> yes g-code is exportet to a file you can make the Vew to Outpoot then you see the G-code generadet direkt into the screen
[18:08:02] <hatch789> now I'm working on the cnc for the Tree 200R
[18:08:32] <hatch789> ok I'm really new to all of this so it's exciting and a bit much to absorb it all
[18:08:59] <IchGuckLive> you got time
[18:09:00] <hatch789> I am in need of 2 boards from what I understand 7i43-U-4 and 7i49 ...these will enable me to interface my Tree 200R into EMC
[18:09:06] <hatch789> I know
[18:09:47] <hatch789> ok I'm going to head out to my shop I have something I am working on for my wife
[18:10:10] <IchGuckLive> dont forget the holiday tomorrow
[18:10:16] <IchGuckLive> http://www.seasideheightstourism.com/seacam/cam1.html
[18:10:17] <hatch789> yup :) woohoo
[18:10:40] <IchGuckLive> there is lots of place to fill on the beatch
[18:12:44] <IchGuckLive> Bye and have a nice 4th of July
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[18:58:56] <mazafaka> Can I think many programs (Mach, EMC) are somewhat the same. And if you know one, it takes not much time to get familiar with other?
[19:04:06] <syyl_> configuration is completely different
[19:04:23] <syyl_> but working with it is pretty similar
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[19:12:13] <JT-Shop> mazafaka: why do you ask?
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[19:13:15] <mazafaka> I have downloaded some demo versions... Now I think EMC is pretty serious software and I only need to work with it for a while
[19:14:04] <JT-Shop> ah, yes if you get familiar with the EMC sims the real thing is almost the same
[19:14:09] <mazafaka> Have to clean external HDD... I also want to have less on my mind, feeling myself trapped in this all
[19:14:17] <mazafaka> ok
[19:14:37] <JT-Shop> I don't understand?
[19:15:47] <mazafaka> no, you have said what i wanted to hear from somebody
[19:15:48] * Tom_itx puts his reflow hat on and gets ready to make another batch of boards
[19:16:01] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
[19:16:14] <mazafaka> ta-da, the drive is clean now
[19:16:58] * Tom_itx sees a nap in his near future first
[19:20:13] * JT-Shop is on the same wave length with Tom_itx and sees a nap real soon
[19:20:19] * Tom_itx gives JT-Shop a pack of sparklers
[19:22:38] * JT-Shop doesn't play with fire any more... and my hand is almost normal now :/
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[19:23:48] <Tom_itx> what's a good sensor to use for a spindle speed indicator?
[19:23:55] <Tom_itx> ir, hall.. ?
[19:25:05] <Tom_itx> i think i'm just gonna use an avr with a sensor and 7seg led readout
[19:25:10] <Tom_itx> just for a visual
[19:26:06] <archivist_emc> nah, do it properly then you can screw cut/tap
[19:26:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/led/7segtop.jpg
[19:26:26] <Tom_itx> got a couple of those locally
[19:26:50] <Tom_itx> archivist i doubt i could do a very good job on my little sherline really
[19:27:17] <archivist_emc> you would be surprised at what emc can do :)
[19:27:18] <Tom_itx> hardly worth investing the control stuff for it
[19:27:31] <Tom_itx> no i wouldn't, just dunno if it's worth it on that thing
[19:27:49] <archivist_emc> you only need a simple encoder and index
[19:27:54] <Tom_itx> it would be nice to have some sense of rpm though
[19:28:12] <Tom_itx> i'd need speed control on the motor then
[19:28:36] <archivist_emc> no, emc senses the motor speed and gears the saddle to it
[19:29:00] <archivist_emc> its sure helps to have speed control too though
[19:29:06] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:29:39] <syyl_> hmm
[19:29:44] <JT-Shop> yea, the sherline might be a bit weak to tap with
[19:29:52] <syyl_> how much signals per rev would i need for rigid tapping?
[19:29:55] <archivist_emc> my speed control is on a pot, emc does not control it
[19:30:08] <Tom_itx> same here
[19:30:08] <syyl_> to compensate dropping rpm etc
[19:30:24] <archivist_emc> I have an index and 48 slots iirc
[19:30:27] <JT-Shop> syyl_: the more the better
[19:30:35] <syyl_> ah, what i have thought :\
[19:31:08] <JT-Shop> archivist_emc: so you get 192 pulses per rev with your setup?
[19:31:58] <archivist_emc> only a single sensor so 96 edges
[19:32:25] <JT-Shop> how does that work for you for rigid tapping?
[19:32:28] <archivist_emc> or 24 and 48...its a couple of years ago since I set it up
[19:32:39] <archivist_emc> thats on the lathe
[19:33:02] <JT-Shop> so you use it for threading only?
[19:33:05] <archivist_emc> so only screw cutting
[19:33:09] <archivist_emc> yup
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[19:33:22] <JT-Shop> ah yea you need reverse to tap
[19:34:17] <skunkworks> So - I tried to increase the servo thread to 2khz and it looks like I get realtime delays with anything faster then 1khz
[19:34:45] <skunkworks> But the velocity from the encoder hooked right to the amc amps seems to work great
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[19:39:21] <skunkworks> it actually worked pretty well with the original settings. I tweeked them though. I had the scale the wrong polarity initally. ran away until it hit the following errror I set (.050) for tuning.
[19:40:07] <JT-Shop> the k&t?
[19:40:55] <skunkworks> yes -
[19:41:05] <skunkworks> I want to get rid of the analog tachs
[19:41:13] <skunkworks> 1 down... :)
[19:41:19] <JT-Shop> cool
[19:47:21] <skunkworks> these amc amps have a cool 'velocity' input that is made for +/-10v
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[19:55:44] <JT-Shop> heh what's that... oh it is a nap and I'm floating on a cloud to the bed
[19:57:41] <GermainAdrian> another noob question
[19:57:59] <GermainAdrian> whats the easiest way to cut sheet metal, for long cuts, like wood with a circular saw?
[19:58:41] <syyl_> steel?
[19:58:50] <GermainAdrian> thin steel or aluminum
[19:59:01] <syyl_> aluminum with a circular saw
[19:59:05] <skunkworks> bandsaw
[19:59:16] <syyl_> normal carbide tipped blade
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[19:59:30] <GermainAdrian> same circular saw that you use for wood, just different blade?
[19:59:45] <syyl_> we use a large woordworkers saw at work for aluminum up to 40mm
[19:59:46] <skunkworks> I agree with syyl_ for aluminum.. you might want to keep some coolant on it. WD40 works good
[19:59:55] <syyl_> dry :)
[20:00:02] <syyl_> no cooleant at all
[20:00:16] <GermainAdrian> syyl_: are those specific blades for metal
[20:00:23] <GermainAdrian> or just regular blades, only carbide tipped
[20:00:56] <syyl_> the tooth look like that:
[20:00:57] <syyl_> the too
[20:01:00] <syyl_> http://www.saegeblatt-handel.de/bilder/Trapez-Flachzahn1.jpg
[20:01:07] <GermainAdrian> thx
[20:01:08] <syyl_> trapezoid/flat in change
[20:01:55] <syyl_> http://gtwr.de/qtl2_7.jpg
[20:01:59] <syyl_> thats the saw :D
[20:02:33] <syyl_> friend of mine uses a normal handheld circular saw
[20:03:08] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-06-27_14-51-29_776.jpg
[20:03:23] <syyl_> in that chopsaw we use a normal woodworking blade for aluminum extrusions
[20:03:36] <syyl_> its a bit louder, but works
[20:03:50] <GermainAdrian> heh a whole shop, what do u make?
[20:04:02] <syyl_> we are a small prototyping shop
[20:06:05] <syyl_> for steel i would go for an anglegrinder
[20:06:19] <syyl_> or a real sheetmetal shear if you have, space and money :D
[20:07:55] <GermainAdrian> yes i was thinking of using an anglegrinder
[20:08:03] <GermainAdrian> but wouldnt it have to be somehow mounted to something?
[20:08:12] <GermainAdrian> otherwise there is no way i'll cut anything in a straight line
[20:08:38] <syyl_> draw a line, use a thin cutoff disc and then go for it
[20:09:06] <syyl_> or cut along a piece of straight flatsteel
[20:11:15] <archivist_emc> how straight, how long needed, so many ways
[20:12:25] <archivist_emc> second hand http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/52-Sheet-Metal-Foot-Shear-Guillotine-very-little-use-/330580936580?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4cf828c784
[20:13:21] <syyl_> indeed, thats the perfect machine for sheetmetal :D
[20:13:37] <syyl_> we got a large hydraulic one at work, that scares everyone when used..
[20:14:00] <archivist_emc> or laser cutting or plasma or water jet or
[20:14:46] <toastydeath> turret press
[20:15:04] <toastydeath> that way you can dimple and do some cold forming as well
[20:16:13] <archivist_emc> put ear defenders on next to a well driven turret press :)
[20:16:47] <toastydeath> for sure
[20:16:53] <syyl_> *dang**dang**dang**dang*
[20:16:56] <toastydeath> sounds like a machine gun
[20:22:51] <mazafaka> EMC supports all M-codes?
[20:23:28] <archivist_emc> for what definition of all
[20:24:22] <mazafaka> I mean it can handle code with M-words, for certain type of machines
[20:25:22] <GermainAdrian> not long
[20:25:25] <GermainAdrian> maybe a meter or so
[20:25:49] <GermainAdrian> i'll just probably use a grinder.
[20:26:16] <toastydeath> mazafaka, emc supports the standard m-codes
[20:26:24] <mazafaka> ok
[20:27:06] <toastydeath> it does not support the custom m-codes other manufacturers often put in that are control and machine specific
[20:27:37] <mazafaka> ok, thanks
[20:33:13] <archivist_emc> mazafaka, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode.html
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[20:40:35] <MrUnshine> hmm just realized, if knowing scraping well one could buy cheap "precision" tools and make them into high precision tools :P
[20:40:45] <MrUnshine> like V blocks etc :P
[20:41:44] <Tom_itx> i think scraping is affecting your thought process
[20:41:59] <MrUnshine> haha :P
[20:42:01] <MrUnshine> yeah =)
[20:42:07] <MrUnshine> put alot of hours into it now :P
[20:42:20] <syyl_> sometimes people loose their mind while scraping
[20:42:20] <MrUnshine> but i am like this, i totaly snow in on one subject for a month or two, then i change :P
[20:42:25] <syyl_> they start to "like" it :D
[20:42:34] <MrUnshine> syyl_, but its fun =)
[20:42:38] <MrUnshine> and very relaxing
[20:42:43] <syyl_> yeah
[20:43:00] <syyl_> its interesting when you see the points apearing
[20:43:03] <MrUnshine> atleast as i get to know more and more how to do it ... it goes better and better faster =)
[20:43:04] <syyl_> *appear
[20:43:34] <MrUnshine> tho, aparently i had some kind of thing on the freakin plane surface ... so a big slit in the way last time i did a bluening ...
[20:43:36] <MrUnshine> not to fun :/
[20:43:42] <MrUnshine> or something fell of the piece (casting sand i guess)
[20:44:46] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: thansk
[20:44:48] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: thanks
[20:45:19] <MrUnshine> tho i think im gonna call it a oil groove and be done with it :P
[20:45:35] <syyl_> :D
[20:46:08] <syyl_> if the surrounding surface has enough high spots, it shouldnt be a problem
[20:47:15] <MrUnshine> it will have :P
[20:47:23] <syyl_> :)
[20:47:24] <MrUnshine> not done yet =)
[20:47:36] <MrUnshine> as i did the mistake of when fine scraping i still scraped off all the blue
[20:48:03] <MrUnshine> didnt know better, so now what ive read that i should only scrape the light spots in the blue when fine scraping a very nice and even pattern is appearing =)
[20:48:54] <MrUnshine> and tomorrow i get my brand spanking new dial indicator! =)
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[20:50:33] <MrUnshine> i so want to get this done tho so i can put the mill together and start learning the ins and outs of emc =)
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[21:26:06] <JT-Shop> seems like the only limits to EMC is your imagination...
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[22:04:44] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: That and the machine you plug onto it ;)
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[22:45:43] <hugomatic> Hello everyone. I'm upgrading to 2.4 (with the included Sherline config) and I am trying to use a gcode file that has a tool change. The file doesn't start and I'm not prompted to do anything. I have a tbl file setup. Can someone point me in the right direction? The user manual is not helping and the wiki page is too from 2008 so I don't trust it. thanks
[22:46:50] <hugomatic> I mean http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Tool_Changes is old... is it still valid?
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[22:53:02] <JT-Shop> yeppers
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[22:54:38] <Connor> Hey guys, I need to cut out a opening in a plastic box.. Thinking of using my mill to do it.. I've never cut plastic with it.. What RPM and type of bit? I have a few a 2 flute 1/8 spiral upcut..
[22:55:07] <Connor> a 1/8" fis-tail diamond-cut router bit (for PCB separation I think)
[22:55:30] <Connor> ZrN coated 1/8 for Non-Ferrus
[22:55:52] <Connor> and a 1/8 2-flute 1/8" for Hardwoods, soft media
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[23:06:00] <hugomatic> sorry, I'm having trouble with my irc client
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[23:35:12] <Valen> Connor: moderate RPM and a high feed rate
[23:35:35] <Valen> its pretty soft you need to make sure the chip takes the heat away or it'll just melt onto it
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[23:50:47] <cpresser> Connor: i would suggest not to use the diamond-cut bit. as valen stated you need to create rather large chips. depending on the type of plastic 0.1-0.2mm chipsize is the key for not melting it down :)
[23:53:29] <andypugh> Any advice for turning polycarbonate?
[23:54:17] <andypugh> I never seem to get a decent finish.
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[23:57:02] <toastydeath> andypugh, what kind of problems are you getting in the surface
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[23:58:56] <andypugh> It's generally just ripped and rough, with bits that are probably stuck back on.
[23:59:08] <toastydeath> tool nose radius and rake?
[23:59:10] <andypugh> I probably need to use the right tool geometry.
[23:59:30] <andypugh> Whatever the inserts are. Probably ideal for steel. :-)
[23:59:50] <toastydeath> i've never turned or milled polycarbonate explicity, but generally speaking plastics need a ridiculous amount of rake and a wide tool nose radius, not a sharp one