#emc | Logs for 2011-06-29

[00:01:14] <robin_sz> andypugh, useful steel place, not too far for me to get bits if needed
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[00:28:23] <West0n> Anyone know much about 3d printing through powder sintering?
[00:28:39] <West0n> Thinking of making a machine to print metal parts
[00:28:45] <jdhNC> doesn't that really need pressure?
[00:28:50] <jdhNC> like MIM?
[00:29:21] <West0n> Nope
[00:29:25] <West0n> Not for 3d printing
[00:29:51] <West0n> It selectively sinters the metal powder with a laser
[00:29:59] <jdhNC> I meant for strength... would you print over-size?
[00:30:23] <West0n> Over-size?
[00:30:58] <robin_sz> i think hes thinking of conventional pressure sintering
[00:31:07] <robin_sz> where you press and then oven
[00:31:12] <West0n> Ah
[00:31:21] <robin_sz> that you do oversze
[00:31:25] <West0n> Often a post treatment is required for parts
[00:31:30] <robin_sz> alway
[00:31:44] <West0n> Anyone have sugustions for the powder size?
[00:31:56] <West0n> Mesh size?
[00:32:00] <robin_sz> West0n, yes, >< this big
[00:32:05] <West0n> Or materials to start from?
[00:32:11] <West0n> I was thinking of nickel
[00:32:13] <jdhNC> I was thinking smaller
[00:32:23] <West0n> What mesh size?
[00:32:27] <robin_sz> I would search the 3d sinterers for their materials catalogues :)
[00:32:38] <robin_sz> you thinking CO2 or YAG?
[00:32:54] <West0n> I have a 40 watt co2 in the garage
[00:32:59] <West0n> Thought I would try it out
[00:33:01] <robin_sz> k
[00:33:14] <robin_sz> I would try fibre coupled hag, but whatever
[00:33:17] <robin_sz> *yag
[00:33:24] <robin_sz> fibre coupled hag never works
[00:33:31] <West0n> They commercialy print titanium, Al, and steel
[00:33:42] <West0n> Titanium will be a bitch
[00:33:45] <West0n> Its flamible
[00:33:53] <West0n> And reguires very good sheilding
[00:33:56] <robin_sz> will need argonm then
[00:33:58] <West0n> And is $$$$
[00:34:11] <robin_sz> steel and ally sound good
[00:34:13] <West0n> Yah. But you need almost perfect o2 free enviroment
[00:34:18] <robin_sz> I expect ally needs argon
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[00:34:21] <jdhNC> heh, I've seen some nicely burned steel (after an accident with an oxygen booster)
[00:36:15] <West0n> For titanium TIG they use a sealed box
[00:36:18] <West0n> Gtg, brb
[00:37:19] <danimal_garage> i started my lathe on fire a couple times cutting ti
[00:37:23] <danimal_garage> my bandsaw too
[00:37:48] <danimal_garage> but the saw was a welding splatter that ignited the ti
[00:38:09] <robin_sz> yeah, ti turnings are like that
[00:38:20] <danimal_garage> yep
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[00:38:51] <danimal_garage> havent had that issue in a while
[00:39:02] <danimal_garage> switched to a water solulable coolant
[00:39:35] <danimal_garage> and i have an encoder on the spindle now so the speed/feed is a little closer
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[00:56:40] <elmo401> what kind of speeds do you run at?
[00:56:48] <Tom_itx> revised plan. living in an aircraft town, i found an aluminum box so i made a face for it for my pendant
[00:56:51] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[00:56:52] <elmo401> and do you use special Ti ground tooling?
[00:57:01] <Tom_itx> not the prettiest work but it'll get the job done
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[00:57:29] <elmo401> lovely!
[00:57:49] <elmo401> I am going to miss those perks when moving to a new job :( No Ti or Al available.
[00:57:50] <elmo401> oh well
[00:57:56] <elmo401> the things you do
[00:58:11] <Tom_itx> and the wrong bit for doing text
[00:58:20] <Tom_itx> i used a tiny center drill
[00:59:02] <Tom_itx> i'll try filling the txt with black paint
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[01:04:50] <West0n> Back
[01:05:04] <West0n> So iron might be ok to try to 3d print
[01:05:13] <West0n> Its sure cheep
[01:05:34] <West0n> Any advice on the min/max particle size?
[01:05:49] <West0n> Small particles will dust up the optics
[01:06:12] <West0n> Large ones.... I don't know
[01:06:24] <West0n> At a point it will limit the resolution
[01:06:48] <West0n> And if I say... used 1" al blocks
[01:06:54] <West0n> Would not melt completely
[01:07:40] <West0n> I am thinking 4 times smaller then the beam/layer size?
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[01:47:00] <elmo401> West0n: let me catch up here... you are trying to laser sinter?
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[02:03:17] <mikegg> you guys remember your first chemistry kit? learning about what happens when iron fillings *ahem rapidly oxidize?
[02:04:06] <alex4nder> laf
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[02:11:41] <Valen> in the presence of aluminium?
[02:11:53] <mikegg> thats thermite isn't it?
[02:12:19] <Tom_itx> pretty close to it
[02:12:53] <Valen> iorn oxide + al
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[02:19:12] <West0n> Yes elmo401
[02:19:26] <West0n> I was looking at metal prices and MSD sheets
[02:19:44] <West0n> Seems like plain iron powder would be the best (cheepest) bet
[02:19:49] <West0n> That won't kill me
[02:21:30] <elmo401> tastes ok
[02:21:32] <elmo401> :P
[02:22:09] <West0n> I wonder if 40 watt co2 is enough
[02:22:14] <West0n> I might start with plastic
[02:22:31] <West0n> I can make abs/hdpe powder in a blender easy :p
[02:23:05] <elmo401> not so easy. I tried
[02:23:16] <elmo401> what is your source? beads? or recycling box ;)
[02:23:19] <mikegg> hah, lol
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[02:38:57] <West0n> Milk bottles and stuff elmo401
[02:39:03] <West0n> Why did you try?
[02:39:09] <West0n> And what was your method?
[02:39:42] <elmo401> the Magic Bullet ;)
[02:39:54] <elmo401> cut into small squares. pressed down
[02:40:01] <elmo401> just jumped all over the place
[02:40:10] <elmo401> wash the plastic first! LOL
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[02:58:33] <aitalmac> i want to jog an axis using an encoder, can you help me?
[02:58:56] <aitalmac> i need to setup the hal file manually i think, but i don't understand much
[02:59:14] <Tom_itx> parport?
[02:59:21] <Tom_itx> or other card
[02:59:23] <aitalmac> yes
[02:59:26] <Tom_itx> yes what
[02:59:30] <aitalmac> parport
[02:59:41] <aitalmac> I connect a and b to 2 pins
[02:59:45] <Tom_itx> you're welcome to look over mine but i'm using a 7i43
[03:00:11] <Tom_itx> the names would be different but the idea the same
[03:00:11] <aitalmac> Where can i find yours?
[03:00:30] <Tom_itx> i'll have to put it somewhere
[03:01:00] <aitalmac> Right now i'm trying to net encoder.0.phase-A <= parport.0.pin-10-in
[03:01:33] <Tom_itx> actually, mine wouldn't do you much good since my board drivers have encoder support
[03:01:46] <Tom_itx> you can look
[03:03:25] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/my_jog.hal
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[03:06:13] <aitalmac> but i need use 2 pins
[03:06:32] <Tom_itx> i did too
[03:06:47] <aitalmac> i don't see your pin in
[03:07:41] <Tom_itx> yeah, it's mapped in the board firmware driver
[03:07:43] <Tom_itx> i think
[03:08:00] <aitalmac> i'm really new with hal
[03:08:11] <Tom_itx> i'm not far ahead of you
[03:08:38] <Jymmm> I might actually have to try this out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxCUWKy_28E&feature=player_embedded#at=18
[03:10:17] <Jymmm> Or not, read the reviews...http://www.harborfreight.com/5-doublecut-saw-68316.html
[03:11:06] <aitalmac> loadrt encoder num_chan=3
[03:11:08] <aitalmac> net countX encoder.0.counts => axis.0.jog-counts
[03:11:08] <aitalmac> net encoder.0.phase-A <= parport.0.pin-10-in
[03:11:08] <aitalmac> net encoder.0.phase-B <= parport.0.pin-15-in
[03:11:08] <aitalmac> setp encoder.0.position-scale 1
[03:11:08] <aitalmac> setp encoder.0.x4-mode
[03:11:09] <aitalmac> can you see what i'm doing wrong?\
[03:13:27] <elmo401> aitalmac: use a pastebin to post what you have. someone might see something
[03:19:45] <Tom_itx> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hooking_Up_A_MPG_Pendant
[03:22:54] <Tom_itx> aitalmac, you might look that over
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[03:37:10] <aitalmac> http://pastebin.com/AzvuEABm
[03:37:16] <aitalmac> you mean like this?
[03:37:44] <aitalmac> I'll look that wiki, looks promising
[03:37:47] <aitalmac> thanks
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[05:56:29] <aitalmac> i did it thanks Tom for your help
[05:56:33] <aitalmac> :)
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[06:04:51] <mazafaka> What difference between steppers and AC motors when I assign or choose the feedrate and acceleration - what should I know?
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[06:06:27] <KimK> AC motors? AC Brushless servo motors?
[06:07:52] <mazafaka> maybe...
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[06:29:14] <mazafaka> I have never choosed the feedrate for any existing CNC machine. I worked only manually, on mill and lathe. I myself think I don't need to constantly hit the level of maximal acceleration and velocity.
[06:31:13] <psha[work]> mazafaka: maximum acc/vel is what you may achieve without load
[06:31:21] <psha[work]> without loosing steps/small ferror
[06:31:41] <psha[work]> feedrate under load is much smaller then max vel/acc
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[06:32:40] <mazafaka> yeah.
[06:32:44] <KimK> Usually a person would get the maximum speed from the various data sheets and minimum anticipated line voltage, and set the maximum speed so you can't overdrive it. With steppers though, you may have to give up a little bit more speed/accel to get reliability (no missed steps).
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[06:34:47] <mazafaka> So, I shall not think I am driving the mill machine as a granny if everything is already OK and the speed is relatively high?
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[06:35:16] <mazafaka> Because it's not cool to be granny in the shop :)
[06:37:15] <mazafaka> OK, I'm just joking. I will be just careful for the machine's state, and I always will think myself and I always can ask you.
[06:38:10] <KimK> If you're happy with the speed, great. If it's a stepper, you might want to try the torture test (tort.ngc) and use some kind of measuring device (turns counter? witness mark and degree wheel? dial indicator?) to see if it always returns to exactly the same place as it started.
[06:39:24] <mazafaka> And if it's a stepper, it will do the same even under the load, right?
[06:40:56] <KimK> Well, steppers generally perform better when slow feeding, even if there's a load (as long as you're not trying to cut too much at once, run some calculations). Usually with steppers, it's no-load rapiding that is the problem.
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[06:42:35] <mazafaka> With no load, stepper may make wrong amount of steps, right?
[06:44:06] <mazafaka> Thanks a lot for info. When there was some lessons on the electricity in the university, I had to miss and work for money... :( Do you know this all from some sort of courses, or just from reading?
[06:44:13] <KimK> It's not so much the lack of load, but the high speed. Steppers generally put out less and less torque as the RPM goes higher and higher. Eventually they stop completely.
[06:44:36] <mazafaka> OK
[06:45:12] <KimK> I'm an electronics engineer. I used to do CNC retrofits. Still do, but with EMC2 now.
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[06:46:09] <KimK> Also automated production, custom machines, etc.
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[06:47:24] <KimK> Good luck with your machine, when you get to it.
[06:47:50] <mazafaka> I also turned to work with machines at the moment. I recently worked on some small power plant which suffered from lack of money. Walls of steam boilers had holes, there were no bricks and metal sheets, dust, CO...
[06:48:50] <KimK> Yes, everyone wants to make something out of nothing, we have that problem too.
[06:49:18] <mazafaka> We maintained telphers and cranes. Now, at this job, my diploma of mechanical engineer is more needed.
[06:49:53] <KimK> Excellent, mechanical engineering is a good thing.
[06:50:41] <mazafaka> I even had got additional hairs in my nose at that time, now I am pretty as I used to be. I feel good, ah ah-hah-hah... I feel good..
[06:51:57] <mazafaka> yeah, good. But Ia am lacking knowledge of electrical machines. I missed some lessons.
[06:52:27] <KimK> Well, this is a good place to ask. Are you anywhere near psha?
[06:53:27] <mazafaka> I am preparing some serioes of videos on MTB and BMX for local ftp server. I want to proclaim some affordable sports. There are many people around who just drink beer and look at American lifestayle and beauty cars on TV.
[06:54:22] <mazafaka> Total Commander consumes 100% of CPU when I upload or download by ftp. I used to work with Linux, not with Windows.
[06:57:30] <KimK> And you're using Windows today? Sorry, I don't know Total Commander. Maybe you can try FileZilla, they have it for Windows and Linux, maybe Mac too? As for me, I use Ubuntu 10.04 LTS for everything because of EMC2, I use what they use.
[06:57:32] <mazafaka> Can not go to my new job today, I am officially at another city right now, where some offcicial documents are being made (that's cheating for life) - and I can not be at two places simultaneously.
[06:58:19] <KimK> FileZilla is a free/open FTP client.
[06:58:59] <mazafaka> I am using Windows at the moment. And I used EMC in Ubuntu 8.04 and 9.04, I think EMC2 is powerful and of the good old-fashioned sort, solid :)
[07:00:54] <mazafaka> Other Ubuntu versions (newer ones) do not work properly on this laptop. I need to disassemble this laptop and clean its pins. It was subjected to the dust. Now its DVD-RW is defined as DVD-ROM, and there are also other mistakes. I will later disassemble it and clean, but now I need it working.
[07:00:55] <KimK> If you have an empty flash drive to play with, you might visit http://portableapps.com/
[07:02:22] <mazafaka> yeah, you bet! I can install ubuntu to my 8 GB Kingston USB flash drive. But at the mometn, I'm using EMC's wiki pages a bit, and plan to work with SprutCAM in the evening.
[07:02:49] <psha[work]> mazafaka: 4gb with gnome is enought
[07:04:39] <KimK> Yes, many people have complained about all the recent changes to Ubuntu. I see that http://distrowatch.com has Mint has climbed to #2, just behind Ubuntu, and looks poised to take over number one, we'll see. http://linuxmint.com/
[07:04:54] <mazafaka> yeah. I just like standart machines, do not want to care of the prudence of data, be it USB flash drive or something. External hdd (IDE, SATA, and something third else) is the storage for all data I have.
[07:06:34] <KimK> Sounds like me, "I just want it to work". That's another reason I stick with the LTS version. So I hope Ubuntu has everything fixed again by the time 12.04 LTS comes around.
[07:06:56] <mazafaka> That's just something bad planned to Ubuntu side. Ubutu 8.04 is very, very nice. It only lacks implemented installation from USB.
[07:09:28] <KimK> I might end up doing something like that too. 10.04 LTS is working great for me, so if 12.04 LTS is looking questionable, I guess plan B would be to wait and see if 14.04 LTS is any better? That's too far ahead to worry about right now though.
[07:10:08] <mazafaka> I think my laptop of 2008 year is broken a bit. New version of Ubuntu shall work on it just fine. Need to clean it from dust.
[07:11:54] <mazafaka> We only now have cable Internet access. Recently, weird small distributions of Linux were scaring me because of my mobile Internet access. Hooking up the phone to computer... Oh...
[07:12:55] <mazafaka> I sometimes do not reboot my laptop for 2 weeks (It's Windows XP, free Avast antivirus, BitTorrent works just constantly).
[07:13:13] <psha[work]> KimK: take a look at debian
[07:13:18] <KimK> I'm a little less afraid of 11.04 and Unity now that I know 11.04 has a "Classic Gnome" option available, although I don't exactly know how to activate it. "sudo apt-get install classic-gnome" maybe? I hope it's that easy.
[07:13:43] <mazafaka> I cleaned walls from old dirty lime, and this dust is still inside of my laptop...
[07:14:25] <psha[work]> as a grandparent of all ubuntu,mint and lot of other distros it is stable and conservative
[07:15:06] <KimK> psha[work]: Thanks, I already have Debian 6 installed in Vbox to get acquainted with it. To me it's not too different-looking from Ubuntu, maybe a little plainer. That's OK.
[07:15:29] <KimK> I see they've brought out a 6.02 update.
[07:15:38] <mazafaka> Oh, I will have tried this portableapps dot com
[07:15:41] <psha[work]> yes, it lacks some of ubuntu eye candiness but it's base system is nearly equal to ubuntu
[07:16:04] <psha[work]> incorrect, ubuntu base is nearly equal to debian :)
[07:16:30] <psha[work]> however debian is great not only as 'stable' distro but also as 'rolling release'
[07:16:34] <psha[work]> debian/testing
[07:16:50] <psha[work]> debian 6.0 is debian/stable - frozen set like ubuntu 10.04, ...
[07:16:59] <KimK> Haha, toe-MAY-toe, toe-MAH-toe, lol
[07:18:02] <mazafaka> I'll go cycle to the garden, need to hose it.
[07:19:15] <KimK> Yes, if we changed to Debian, that would be OK. Maybe Mint has more "other stuff", mp3, DVD, etc., which is good for living with a main desktop for 2 years, but I can see why some would say, "Why would I want that on my CNC machine?" So you can't please everybody.
[07:20:50] <KimK> Are you and mazafaka anywhere near each other?
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[07:21:14] <mazafaka> Who? I'm in Russia, it's afternoon already.
[07:21:28] <KimK> mazafaka: meet psha[work]
[07:21:36] <KimK> psha[work]: meet mazafaka
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[07:22:06] <mazafaka> where's he? I would bette meet Kayley Ashworth and kiss her, accidentally.
[07:22:12] <mazafaka> :)
[07:22:43] <KimK> I believe psha[work] is somewhere near Moscow?
[07:23:19] <psha[work]> moscow
[07:23:32] <KimK> (he's at work so he comes and goes) Oh, there he is!
[07:24:02] <psha[work]> KimK: yea, problem with ubuntu is lot of bells and whistles - i'm currently cleaning CNC installation from them
[07:24:15] <psha[work]> sound, update-notifer, etc
[07:24:25] <psha[work]> already installed dwm instead of gnome...
[07:24:51] <psha[work]> so user will power-on machine, wait for 30s and get started control GUI
[07:25:01] <KimK> Ha, you *really* wouldn't like my desktop then. One word... "medibuntu", lol!
[07:25:28] <Jymmm> medi WHAT?
[07:26:10] <Jymmm> mediabuntu??
[07:26:12] <KimK> It's the add-on for mp3's, DVDs, Microsoft fonts, all the stuff that Ubuntu has licensing issues with.
[07:27:02] <Jymmm> ah
[07:27:03] <KimK> So the medibuntu people put all that stuff on a server somewhere (that has nothing to do with Ubuntu) and they make it real easy to install.
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[07:28:08] <psha[work]> KimK: like debian-mulitmedia repo
[07:28:13] <KimK> Mandrake used to have something like that that they called the Penguin Liberation Front, lol!
[07:28:40] <Jymmm> I thought mediabuntu was an "official" variant
[07:28:50] <Jymmm> k,x,etc
[07:29:12] <KimK> psha[work]: Ah, Debian has one too? Excellent, if I have to live with Debian as my main desktop for two years.
[07:29:19] <psha[work]> KimK: i'm fan of Terminus font (monospace)
[07:29:29] <psha[work]> it has some issues but it's readablity is great
[07:30:00] <KimK> OK, I'll look at it, thanks. I don't know if I have it, I've never looked.
[07:30:04] <nicko> ello all
[07:30:12] <KimK> Hi nicko
[07:30:14] <Jymmm> you dont need an addon for a single font
[07:30:17] <nicko> Colombo RC90 spindle
[07:30:30] <nicko> prob going to get one soon
[07:30:45] <nicko> 7HP - ATC - air or water cooled
[07:30:54] <KimK> Jymmm: No, but I've got a bunch of fonts already, so I'm thinking I've got it already, if I just look.
[07:30:57] <psha[work]> Jymmm: what's addon? extra repository? PPA? it's not like 'service pack', it's like extra package source i bet
[07:31:06] <nicko> but I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the brand ?
[07:31:26] <Jymmm> KimK: Not as many as I do I'll bet =)
[07:31:32] <nicko> ISO25 (ER20)
[07:32:05] <KimK> Jymmm: I'll yield to you in fonts, lol.
[07:32:25] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Well, I'm talking a ~40KB font file vs entire "addon" orwhatever you ant to call it.
[07:32:35] <Jymmm> KimK: Good, you'ld lose! lol
[07:33:03] <Jymmm> KimK: (last count 61K)
[07:33:07] <psha[work]> Jymmm: it's not 40kb i bet...
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[07:33:15] <psha[work]> Installed-Size: 1920
[07:33:18] <psha[work]> xfonts-terminus
[07:33:47] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Hense the ~ (worse case scenario) I was giving the benefit of the doubt
[07:34:08] <KimK> nicko: I don't know anything about Colombo spindles myself, but if it's a fast one, and if you can get it water cooled, that would be a good idea, water is a great transporter of heat. Do they offer a chiller? You have to do something with the heat eventually.
[07:34:09] <Jymmm> KimK: Might be 68K. I stopped counting after a while
[07:36:19] <Jymmm> KimK: I'm just a ram and font whore =)
[07:37:13] <KimK> Fontmatrix says I do not have Terminus. I'll check Synaptic.
[07:37:29] <nicko> no chiller no - but it sounds like something for the summer
[07:37:50] <Jymmm> http://fractal.csie.org/~eric/wiki/Terminus_font
[07:37:51] <nicko> big bucket of ice, chuck in some beers for the visitors
[07:38:08] <KimK> Oh, yes, there it is. Getting it now.
[07:38:17] <nicko> spindle is 5000 to 32,000 RPM
[07:38:54] <nicko> I'll use my AC servo mated with the lathe live tool for servo and lower RPM functions (rigid tapping etc...)
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[07:44:39] <KimK> I guess I had the Terminus for console, just not for X. Also getting a couple of new (big) updates, Vbox and Opera.
[07:44:39] <Valen> our mill went wonky today :-<
[07:44:52] <Valen> something went sproing by the sound of it and now X is oscilating
[07:45:04] <aitalmac> Where can i find an exemple of hal file for an automatic tool change, the tools are on fixed positions, and the spindle has an index to find position and a clamp to get the tools
[07:45:28] <aitalmac> or something where i can start from
[07:46:15] <KimK> Valen: Broken helical coupling in X? Sometimes they can break but "stick together" so it just looks like a bit of backlash has appeared.
[07:46:30] <Valen> rofl, chinese mill
[07:46:35] <Valen> no helical couplings there
[07:46:46] <KimK> Ah, a smaller unit then?
[07:47:08] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JakeAndRussells
[07:47:30] <KimK> Is it a tabletop size? Ah, a photo, excellent. Looking...
[07:48:15] <nicko> Oh hey!
[07:48:39] <nicko> Valen... thats your RF35
[07:48:49] <nicko> machinery house - are you in Aus ??
[07:48:53] <Valen> HM45 but they are all the same
[07:48:54] <Valen> yeah
[07:49:06] <nicko> I have the ZX45 - I'm in NZ
[07:49:09] <Valen> we replaced the head on it recently
[07:49:14] <nicko> HEAVY
[07:49:25] <nicko> I was considering converting mine
[07:49:34] <Valen> i wouldn't bother
[07:49:36] <nicko> interesting reading your page there
[07:49:37] <Valen> just make a new one
[07:49:39] <nicko> (yes)
[07:49:47] <nicko> the Z is a major issue huh
[07:49:59] <Valen> its pretty crappy
[07:50:21] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html might be interesting to you
[07:50:28] <Valen> after we put that on it got alot better
[07:51:24] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/129454-water_cooled_chinese_spindle_disassembly.html is the guts of one of those chinese spindles btw
[07:51:29] <Valen> rather better than we expected
[07:51:59] <nicko> I have a PDS Colombo 7HP spindle on offer at the moment
[07:52:46] <nicko> about the same and a bit more as one of the more expensive chinese ebay spindles
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[07:54:08] <Valen> sounds pretty good
[07:54:42] <nicko> Phenolic huh
[07:54:44] <nicko> interesting
[07:54:57] <Valen> not really
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[07:55:00] <nicko> too much info for now - I;m on quick scan as I should be doing other things
[07:55:01] <Valen> but PB sounds good
[07:55:11] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136210&d=1307853864 is what its got now ;->
[07:55:33] <nicko> ha ha
[07:55:41] <nicko> that is one modified 45 !
[07:55:50] <Valen> somewhat
[07:56:01] <nicko> mine is still manual as - could do with a DRO, but I spend all my cash on the CNC instead
[07:56:18] <nicko> I use the manual for roughing stock and facing it etc...
[07:56:44] <nicko> drill press - actually I use it quite a bit - DRO would be sweet
[07:57:06] <nicko> Are you in Melbourne ?
[07:57:17] <Valen> sydney
[07:57:37] <nicko> Ah, well, I was working there a year ago
[07:57:43] <nicko> Sydney and Melbourne
[07:57:53] <nicko> mpoving back to Melbourne end of the year
[07:58:59] <nicko> my ZX45 is ER40 - silly too big for the machine really
[07:59:06] <nicko> I mean MT4
[07:59:44] <nicko> it makes some ugly noises with boring heads on it
[08:01:45] <nicko> Does the alloy help cool the spindle a heap ? I guess hard to prove without a time consuming test, but its obvious it should
[08:03:38] <Valen> which alloy?
[08:03:44] <Valen> the mounting blocks?
[08:03:54] <Valen> the spindle is water cooled
[08:04:09] <Valen> you can see the radiator in the bacround
[08:04:25] <Valen> also the fan for the radiator blows on the Z axis motor, keeps it cool
[08:04:46] <nicko> the mount yeh
[08:05:07] <Valen> nfi, it doesn't even get warm with the water cooling
[08:05:23] <nicko> if the heat from the spindle made its way to the spindle body the alloy would wick away a fair amount of heat
[08:05:42] <nicko> 'cool'
[08:05:44] <nicko> ;)
[08:06:16] <Valen> the most we have seen is ~3-4C above ambient
[08:06:20] <Valen> that was before we had the fan
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[08:27:54] <aitalmac> i need with tool change, the tools are on a fixed station, where can i write all the positions where to go take the tools, and where to write the process the machine has to do to take the tools, and how to write it?
[08:28:01] <aitalmac> need help
[08:36:57] <KimK> There are probably many ways to do this. One way that occurs to me is to use M100-M199 instead of M6? Maybe M101 is get tool #1, M102 is get tool #2, etc. Then M100 could be put the current tool back? It's just an idea. Maybe someone else will have a better idea?
[08:37:55] <KimK> Wait, maybe subrs would be better.
[08:38:15] <Gensor> Kim: morning
[08:38:35] <aitalmac> What's subrs?
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[08:38:47] <KimK> subroutine calls
[08:38:58] <KimK> Gensor: good morning
[08:39:19] <aitalmac> i wan
[08:39:34] <KimK> You could have o<get_tool_01>, o<get_tool_02>, etc.
[08:39:55] <aitalmac> will it work with gcode?
[08:40:40] <KimK> Sure. Then have o<save_tool_01>, o<save_tool_02>, etc.
[08:40:58] <aitalmac> can i put on and off some output during tool change? like open cover of the tool change, lock index of spindle, open/close spindle clamp
[08:40:58] <KimK> Would that work for you?
[08:41:43] <KimK> I think so, what, M62? Let me look...
[08:41:53] <psha[work]> aitalmac: yes, it's possible
[08:42:03] <psha[work]> there are M-codes for setting digital outputs
[08:42:11] <psha[work]> s/digital//
[08:42:24] <aitalmac> so what documentation should i read?
[08:43:15] <aitalmac> Where should i write the tool change sequence i want to create?
[08:43:24] <KimK> Yes, M62-M65 look promising
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[08:46:19] <KimK> Write it in individual files. get_tool_01.ngc, save_tool_01.ngc, get_tool_02.ngc, save_tool_02.ngc, etc. In your ini file, you can create a separate subroutine directory under the nc_files directory. Put all your tool change files there, then they won't bother you, you won't have to look at them when you're working with regular gcode files.
[08:46:53] <aitalmac> ok and how do i recall them?
[08:47:29] <aitalmac> and how do i make m62 to open the input i want, i have to write it in the custom hal file?
[08:48:42] <KimK> In your part program, if you want tool 7, say "o<get_tool_07.ngc>" on one line by itself. When you're done with tool 7, say "o<save_tool_07.ngc>" on one line by itself to put it back.
[08:49:45] <psha[work]> KimK: o<get_tool_07>
[08:49:47] <psha[work]> without .ngc
[08:50:02] <aitalmac> Oh
[08:50:04] <aitalmac> I think i get it
[08:50:44] <aitalmac> But then i cannot use the standard t2m6 code right?
[08:51:07] <KimK> psha[work]: Thanks!
[08:51:43] <aitalmac> i would have to write in my CAM postprocessor that for change tool the commands are 0<get_tool_07> eccc
[08:52:21] <KimK> aitalmac: psha[work] is right, I made a mistake there, sorry to confuse you. The files are named foo.ngc, but when you call them, just say foo. It knows they're .ngc.
[08:52:41] <aitalmac> yeah i get it
[08:52:55] <aitalmac> Thanks
[08:53:05] <KimK> On the M62, looking...
[08:53:15] <KimK> M64 I mean...
[08:54:16] <KimK> No, I take it back, maybe M62 is better.
[08:54:53] <KimK> You could probably use either one, but I think M64 might be a little better.
[08:55:23] <KimK> Ha!, I mean M62 (Now I'm confusing myself, lol!)
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[09:00:22] <psha[work]> KimK: M62 really looks better - control clamp syncronized with motion
[09:00:28] <KimK> OK, the M62-M65 codes control motion.digital-out-00 through motion.digital-out-03. So you could have 4 different tool covers, 2 left and 2 right, maybe?
[09:00:37] <psha[work]> but M64 is also suitable - there is no need to set exactly when you want
[09:01:13] <KimK> Yes, that's what I thought, but M64 could work too, with a pause or something, no big deal.
[09:02:20] <aitalmac> So i should write T2M64 and the machine will process the NGC code to go get the tool?
[09:02:33] <aitalmac> tool 2???
[09:04:08] <KimK> Anyway, if you had "cover 0" through "cover 3" (I won't call them 1-4 here, you can if you want) to open "cover 3" you might say "M62 P3". To close "cover 3" you would say "M63 P3".
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[09:05:48] <KimK> No, you won't be using T numbers or the M6 toolchange code. If I understand your tool holders correctly. They're basically just a rack of toolholders, right? Withdraw sideways, probably?
[09:06:08] <aitalmac> yes
[09:06:35] <KimK> Power drawbar? Retention stud?
[09:06:54] <aitalmac> just a fixed thing
[09:06:58] <aitalmac> with many tools on it
[09:07:18] <aitalmac> the tools are insert from side, into clamps
[09:07:33] <KimK> How does the spindle retain the tool?
[09:07:50] <aitalmac> the spindle to take the tool come from up
[09:07:55] <aitalmac> and it has a clamp
[09:07:58] <aitalmac> to clamp it
[09:08:17] <KimK> A stud that is at the top of the taper?
[09:09:15] <KimK> Oh, maybe it's not a taper, maybe it's a straight-shank, like the Tormach?
[09:15:22] <KimK> aitalmac: This machine is a little fancier than yours, maybe, but is this the general idea? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaR2UQKvr4M
[09:27:51] <KimK> aitalmac: You would also have to include fixturing in your subrs. You would probably use #9/G59.3 for your "machine", the tool racks, touching off tools, etc. Then use #1/G54 - #8/G59.2 for all your part fixturing. When you need a tool change, the G54 (say) would be cut off, and you'd use G59.3 to find the tool rack. Then back to G54 to find the fixture again.
[09:29:09] <KimK> I would put the G59.3's in the subrs and then hit a G54 - G59.2 after I got back from the tool change.
[09:29:41] <KimK> But there are probably many ways to skin the cat, maybe you'll have a better idea.
[09:34:58] <psha[work]> KimK: you may pass slot number as paramter to O-sub
[09:35:09] <psha[work]> i mean aitalmac may :)
[09:35:28] <psha[work]> so really only get_tool and set_tool subs are needed
[09:36:10] <KimK> Have one big subr? Yes, I guess that would work too. There you go, aitalmac (he must be at work too?)
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[09:37:53] <KimK> If the subr handled the opening and closing of covers (if any) that would save a lot of bother too.
[09:38:21] <psha[work]> only bad thing you'll need is to translate pocket index to coordinates
[09:38:30] <psha[work]> everthing else will be same
[09:39:29] <KimK> Can you just write it all out and start running at the selected spot until you find "endsub"?
[09:40:18] <KimK> That's ugly but simple.
[09:40:47] <KimK> His other choice is pretty but complicated.
[09:42:08] <KimK> Did you and mazafaka ever figure out if you're anywhere close to each other?
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[09:46:02] <aitalmac> Sorry i was AFK
[09:46:16] <aitalmac> I don't get your Gcode talk :(
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[09:49:31] <aitalmac> The tool change is simple, there are 20 clamps on a tube, the tools are inserted and taken out of the camps from the side, the motor to catch the tools come from above and catch them with a clamp built in the motor
[09:49:31] <aitalmac> then it comes out
[09:49:31] <aitalmac> The motor has also an index to lock it in a certain position
[09:49:32] <aitalmac> the clamps hold the tools automaticly so i don't need input output for those
[09:49:53] <psha[work]> KimK: not yet
[09:50:55] <aitalmac> I may put a protecting cover over the tools so i may need to control it, and i need to control the clamp of the spindle, the index of the spindle, and i need to set the different positions of the tools
[09:51:42] <aitalmac> And if possible the machine has to go take the tool 2 for example when from MDI i write T2M6
[09:52:23] <KimK> aitalmac: OK. Read back when you have time and come back with questions. You have four digital outputs under M62/M63. You'll have to figure out what to do with them, or get more from somewhere else.
[09:52:50] <psha[work]> KimK: more outputs are available - 4 is just default value
[09:53:47] <KimK> I think under MDI you can write "o<get_tool> [6]" - - did I do that right, psha[work] ?
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[09:54:37] <psha[work]> num_dio=xxx in loadrt motion
[09:54:45] <psha[work]> KimK: yes
[09:55:17] <aitalmac> I connect pin to controll my output in the parport
[09:55:27] <psha[work]> then in get_tool convert 6 to coodinates (using if-else?) and using that coordinates move/pickup/etc
[09:55:48] <psha[work]> also you may place coordinates into variables and then get them with offset
[09:56:08] <aitalmac> Do you have an example?
[09:56:10] <KimK> aitalmac: You'll have to get used to the idea of letting go of M6 and T9 and so forth. You won't be using those.
[09:56:34] <psha[work]> KimK: do you aware of state of O-sub toolchanger?
[09:56:40] <psha[work]> mhaberler was working on it
[09:56:51] <KimK> No, I know nothing about it.
[09:57:02] <psha[work]> it's typicaly what we're currently discussing but bound to Tx M6
[09:57:10] <aitalmac> Why can't i use them?
[09:57:27] <psha[work]> aitalmac: M6 is hidden deep inside toolchanger
[09:57:30] <KimK> Oh, really? Well, aitalmac would certainly be interested in that.
[09:57:42] <psha[work]> in emc2.4 it's not possible to bind your own O-sub to M6 command
[09:57:55] <psha[work]> but i don't remember state of that work for emc2.5
[09:58:35] <aitalmac> I don't want to let go lol
[09:58:36] <aitalmac> I think i'm using the 2.6
[09:58:37] <aitalmac> Is it possible with that?
[09:58:38] <aitalmac> 2.4.6
[09:58:44] <aitalmac> sorry
[09:59:17] <KimK> That's still emc2.4 (2.4.x)
[09:59:30] <psha[work]> but 2.5 is avaiable from buildbot :)
[09:59:48] <psha[work]> i've installed 2.5 for my customer since i need gladevcp for UI
[10:02:09] <aitalmac> yes i get it
[10:02:09] <aitalmac> So no chance of getting it to work with M6 command, instead i have to use the o word
[10:02:10] <aitalmac> right?
[10:02:11] <aitalmac> I'll probably have to install 2.5 here too
[10:02:39] <aitalmac> Right now i'm happy i got the machine to move with an MPG pedant
[10:02:49] <aitalmac> :)
[10:03:12] <psha[work]> aitalmac: as i already mentioned i don't remember state of that work :(
[10:03:45] <aitalmac> It works very good, i did my first custom hal file and i'm starting to understand how hal works
[10:03:51] <KimK> Here's another similar tool changer, although you don't see the tool changer until about 1:40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBz_HQ6vcT8
[10:04:23] <aitalmac> I'm sorry KimK but i do not get youtube from China
[10:04:39] <aitalmac> :(
[10:04:45] <KimK> Ah, OK.
[10:06:51] <aitalmac> Can i do automatic tool change with a custom hal file?
[10:07:41] <mazafaka> KimK: I don't smoke neuther drink so much to figure out such themes.
[10:09:37] <KimK> mazafaka: So the vodka industry is unhappy with you, then?
[10:09:40] <aitalmac> someone has some example files for automatic tool change?
[10:10:16] <mazafaka> yeah
[10:10:43] <KimK> mazafaka: Well, good for you, anyway.
[10:10:54] <mazafaka> yeah, why not good.
[10:13:17] <KimK> aitalmac: You would just write out the steps needed to do a tool change, as if you were doing it from the MDI panel.
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[10:14:14] <aitalmac> you mean in the hal file?
[10:14:58] <aitalmac> I really don't get how the process will work, where do i write the commands, how do i process the commands from the axis ui
[10:16:10] <psha[work]> aitalmac: first you need to do it manualy
[10:16:20] <psha[work]> start axis, go to MDI panel and run commands
[10:16:33] <KimK> No, in gcode. G59.3, M19 (maybe?), get tool out of way of covers opening, open covers, wait for covers to open, go get tool, go get out of the way of the covers, close covers, wait for covers to close, return from tool change. Did I miss anything?
[10:16:41] <psha[work]> then copy commands to separate file and call them with o<filename>
[10:17:01] <aitalmac> yes a lot
[10:17:29] <aitalmac> You missed i have to round the motor at low rpm and insert the index to lock the motor at a certain position
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[10:17:52] <KimK> M19 should handle that for you. Do that in HAL if you can.
[10:18:35] <aitalmac> then i have to get the tool by opening the clamp move down and close the clamp
[10:18:41] <KimK> M19 is modal with M3-M4-M5
[10:18:47] <aitalmac> how do i connect a gcode to command my output?
[10:19:35] <KimK> That's in HAL in those digital outputs I mentioned earlier
[10:19:48] <aitalmac> ok
[10:19:55] <KimK> You're talking about M62 and M63, right?
[10:20:08] <aitalmac> do you have documentation that can help me doing this?
[10:20:20] <aitalmac> yes
[10:20:26] <aitalmac> m62 and m63
[10:20:27] <KimK> The User Manual and the Integrator Manual
[10:20:40] <KimK> Maybe the HAL Manual too.
[10:21:54] <aitalmac> So to do this i really need to get the whole package
[10:22:11] <KimK> Start with the O-codes section and the M62-M65 section.
[10:22:29] <KimK> What do you have now?
[10:22:48] <aitalmac> I mean i have to read all the documentation
[10:23:05] <KimK> Start with the O-codes section and the M62-M65 section.
[10:23:18] <aitalmac> Yes i will
[10:23:51] <aitalmac> I have read some things, but i'm not used to read books in english
[10:24:24] <aitalmac> Thank you so much for your help
[10:24:32] <KimK> Ah, OK. Sorry, we don't have a Chinese translation. Would French help?
[10:25:23] <KimK> You're welcome. Come back anytime with questions.
[10:25:45] <aitalmac> No i don't read chinese either i'm Italian
[10:25:46] <aitalmac> And i hate french
[10:25:46] <aitalmac> Like all Italians...
[10:26:10] <KimK> Haha, OK.
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[10:28:02] <KimK> psha[work]: Thanks for your help. I've got to go. Bye. Talk to you later.
[10:28:30] <psha[work]> ии
[10:28:30] <psha[work]> bb
[10:29:10] <mazafaka> ЩЪ
[10:29:35] <psha[work]> mazafaka: тсс, не пались
[10:30:03] <mazafaka> How had it happen you know English? Had to handle some documentation?
[10:31:04] <Jymmm> How do you cut this cleanly in half with minimal tools? http://www.rackmountnet.com/images/products/sr208/sr208_3.jpg
[10:31:05] <psha[work]> no, i'm programmer and technical english is crucial in my work
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[10:33:13] <moopy> hey KimK
[10:33:47] <psha[work]> mazafaka: also my grandmother is retired english teacher ;)
[10:35:10] <mazafaka> But you know crtain words from somewhere, not from your grandmother.
[10:35:57] <moopy> my granny taught me how to swear
[10:40:12] <mazafaka> *certain
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[10:42:32] <moopy> Who submits code to the git??
[10:42:34] <psha[work]> mazafaka: heh, working on OSS projects like emc involves lot of communication and thus boost language skills greatly ;)
[10:42:38] <psha[work]> moopy: you
[10:42:55] <psha[work]> git format-patch; git send-email emc-devel@...
[10:43:08] <moopy> can someone add a bit of code to the next release for me?
[10:45:11] <psha[work]> moopy: add it localy, test and send to emc-devel (or talk to somebody on #emc-devel)
[10:45:29] <psha[work]> it's typical process for features
[10:45:39] <mazafaka> my granny have taught me how to garden
[10:45:39] <psha[work]> bugfix path may be shortened
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[11:00:27] <moopy> there is no one in emc-devel
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[11:00:58] <moopy> I tried submitting a year ago, but I think no one is interested
[11:02:30] <psha[work]> moopy: why no one? there are many but they are silent :)
[11:02:56] <psha[work]> moopy: try again with explanation why it's important (needed)
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[11:23:12] <psha[work]> mazafaka: dunno, i've seen only steppers :)
[11:24:23] <mazafaka> oh...
[11:32:36] <moopy> there must be an excoder if you want accurate position
[11:46:52] <mazafaka> and due to low ratio of the drive, AC motor stops at a prooper time?
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[11:55:16] <psha[work]> mazafaka: no, due to PID loop it may be stopped in proper time
[11:55:21] <psha[work]> not due to low ratio
[12:11:58] <mazafaka> yes, but AC motor inlike stepper motor seems doesn't just stop just abruptly.
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[13:24:05] <cncbasher> anyone using a 7i43 with a 7i42 & 7i37 ?
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[13:42:54] <cradek> cncbasher: go ahead and ask your actual question - maybe someone can help whether or not they have that same combination of cards
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[13:47:59] <cncbasher> hi , looking to get my head around the actual pin connections
[13:48:52] <cncbasher> and relationship to each etc
[13:49:20] <cncbasher> as it's my first time with mesa cards
[13:49:48] <cradek> ok I see
[13:49:52] <cradek> what specifically?
[13:50:00] <cncbasher> and figuring out the inevitable connection tree
[13:53:18] <cncbasher> as the 7I42 is labeled as for example IO0 i am presuming this relates to io1 on the 7I43
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[13:55:20] <cradek> have you seen that if you load up emc, it will print into dmesg all the pinouts?
[13:56:00] <cncbasher> AR
[13:56:14] <cncbasher> arh no not looked at dmesg
[13:56:31] <cradek> try doing that
[13:56:36] <cncbasher> ok thanks
[13:57:01] <cradek> the pinouts change according to how you load the firmware (number of encoders, stepgens, pwmgens, etc) so just looking at the dmesg is the easiest way to see how you need to wire it up
[13:58:02] <cncbasher> thanks for that , yes the pinouts changing is where it became confusing
[13:58:57] <cncbasher> my first shot at using mesa cards , so the learning curve begins
[14:00:20] <Valen> are you using the mesa drivers as well?
[14:01:11] <Valen> as in motor drivers
[14:01:26] <cradek> cncbasher: it's easy - decide how many encoders/stepgens/pwmgens you need, load the firmware accordingly, look at dmesg and wire stuff up to the pins it says
[14:02:48] <cncbasher> no not using mesa drivers , yea think i can find my way round now
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[16:05:50] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[16:06:05] <IchGuckLive> Connor: http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/290611180450_V1_cambleFrame.jpg it Fits !
[16:06:21] <Connor> Nice
[16:06:58] <Connor> and each pcb has it's own I2C Mux chip ?
[16:07:12] <IchGuckLive> yes
[16:07:19] <Connor> Display too?
[16:07:33] <IchGuckLive> im down to 4ms to the main loop
[16:07:43] <IchGuckLive> so no problem with the speed
[16:08:01] <Connor> any way to combine some of those PCB's and reduce the I2C chips ?
[16:08:03] <IchGuckLive> the Jog has 30by30 steps
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[16:08:44] <IchGuckLive> Connor: no way you need all 24 Switches
[16:08:55] <IchGuckLive> on this version
[16:09:04] <Connor> Wow.
[16:09:12] <Connor> How many buttons do you have ?
[16:09:20] <IchGuckLive> but as we talkd you can do this with the Jog wheel Switch in one
[16:09:49] <IchGuckLive> one moment i will post the front view
[16:10:08] <Connor> Mine Have 4 soft buttons, 3 primary buttons (start,pause,stop) 2 tirggers and E-stop.
[16:10:35] <Connor> You had more soft buttons.. like 7 or 8, kinda staggered ?
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[16:12:50] <IchGuckLive> Connor: http://foengarage.de/V1_front_view.jpg
[16:13:20] <Connor> Oh okay. You have the same setup.. 4 soft + 3 for stop start and pause.
[16:13:30] <Connor> and then the rotary switches.
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[16:13:44] <Connor> I used resistor ladder for rotary switches with analog ports.
[16:13:58] <IchGuckLive> the E-stop is now the Topbutton not seen in the picture the red one and the JogSwitch
[16:15:03] <Connor> okay, so you hold the red one down to jog.
[16:15:34] <Connor> Cool
[16:15:38] <IchGuckLive> no jog is only anabled in parts of the flow programming
[16:15:47] <Connor> oh
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[16:16:01] <IchGuckLive> the main menue is Positining Manuell mill,Programm options
[16:16:35] <IchGuckLive> the interrupt of the PCF i2C is used to detect what happend
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[16:17:04] <IchGuckLive> the Jog interupt only sets variables Jog=1 Jogdir=0/1
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[16:17:35] <IchGuckLive> and if the jog is alowed in the part of runstate where we are it is processed
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[16:20:22] <IchGuckLive> ok by thill later
[16:20:33] <Connor> It looks good
[16:20:42] <Connor> look forward to seeing your code.
[16:21:09] <IchGuckLive> the first tsts and programming also looks good it works in manuell mode also with the mashine
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[16:24:50] <Xolotl4> Hi is some body using EMC2 to control a Grinder machine?
[16:28:13] <JT-Shop> I'm sure someone does, what is your question?
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[16:33:21] <Xolotl4> does a centerless grinding machine needs a special kinematic or can it be used as a lathe?
[16:34:03] <JT-Shop> does it move like a lathe? X and Z?
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[16:36:27] <JT-Shop> only one axis moves?
[16:39:16] <JT-Shop> or does the regulating wheel tilt also move via CNC?
[16:43:30] <Xolotl4> for your questions it seems that you know more about the process that i do, so i thing is possible to use EMC, thanks
[16:43:51] <JT-Shop> I just looked it up on wiki :)
[16:44:21] <JT-Shop> should be a simple config with max of 2 axis
[16:45:57] <Xolotl4> ok
[16:46:37] <Xolotl4> were did you looked in the wiki?
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[16:51:07] <JT-Shop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centerless_grinding
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[17:10:56] <danimal_garage> mornin
[17:11:03] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan
[17:11:36] <danimal_garage> Hi John
[17:12:49] <danimal_garage> how goes it
[17:15:31] <JT-Shop> not bad, I have a little helper for a bit to paint and mow and stuff
[17:16:34] <archivist_emc> I need a little helper/slave here to mow and paint!
[17:16:38] <danimal_garage> cool, high school kid or something?
[17:16:43] <JT-Shop> get the inside of the shop finished off and start moving in
[17:16:56] <JT-Shop> yea, my partners kid
[17:17:21] <danimal_garage> i had an employee for a few months
[17:17:24] <FinboySlick> archivist_emc: I've been toying with the design of an EMC-controlled mower for a little while ;)
[17:17:55] <danimal_garage> kept scrapping stuff so i let him go
[17:18:17] <archivist_emc> Im more likely to make an EMC controlled microfiche scanner
[17:19:10] <JT-Shop> yea, that sucks when they cost you money to work for you
[17:19:20] <danimal_garage> and figures, as soon as i let him go, i get swamped
[17:19:35] <danimal_garage> literally like the next day i got busy again
[17:19:49] <danimal_garage> oh well
[17:20:18] <JT-Shop> I'd rather start from scratch if I ever hire anyone... no bad habits
[17:20:18] <danimal_garage> at least while he was here i had the chance to streamline some processes so i should be able to keep up on my own
[17:20:28] <JT-Shop> cool
[17:20:44] <danimal_garage> yea, he was "from scratch"
[17:21:04] <archivist_emc> you have to test aptitude though
[17:21:09] <danimal_garage> problem was he was an old hippie who probably smoked way too much weed
[17:21:34] <danimal_garage> he picked stuff up fast, but he would forget EVERYTHING the next time we ran those parts
[17:21:50] <danimal_garage> i even made him operation sheets but he'd find a new way to screw up
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[17:22:41] <JT-Shop> yea, up in smoke :)
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[17:22:46] <danimal_garage> yea
[17:23:29] <JT-Shop> I know that I forget so it is a habit to recheck on a new day
[17:23:37] <danimal_garage> when he made good parts he did well, but he was scraping in much $ in parts as i paid him every week
[17:25:29] <danimal_garage> oh well
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[17:44:08] <JT-Shop> I do like my new tool length setter
[17:44:16] <JT-Shop> Edge
[17:46:03] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: what did you get?
[17:46:23] <Jymmm> Herpies?
[17:46:57] <Jymmm> skunkworks: (just dont ask what units it's in ;)
[17:47:34] <JT-Shop> the touch off guage http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/
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[17:51:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I would have thought you would have wanted something digital so you could feedback into emc automagiaclly
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[17:53:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: that is pretty cool though, simple design.
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[17:57:29] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I don't have EMC on my VMC... yet
[17:57:36] <JT-Shop> works real slick
[17:58:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: cool, you should replicate it
[17:58:17] <JT-Shop> a lot faster than the dowel and less chance of damaging a cutting edge
[17:58:34] <JT-Shop> more cost effective to just buy one
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[17:59:10] <JT-Shop> I can't make one for anywhere near $60
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[18:15:23] <skunkworks> yay - my carbide end mills came in.
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[18:20:18] <JT-Shop> yea
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[20:24:45] <robin_sz> hmm, got to figure out how to set up the toolprobe on the haas now
[20:25:22] <robin_sz> I suspect there are some macros involved
[20:26:10] <danimal_garage> if it's anything like an anal probe, i'm sorry, i can't help.
[20:26:38] <JT-Shop> LOL
[20:27:46] <danimal_garage> i just put my first ad in a magazine. let's hope it pays for itself
[20:28:00] <JT-Shop> ad for parts?
[20:28:16] <danimal_garage> yes, my for my company
[20:28:19] <cradek> danimal_garage: awesome
[20:28:35] <cradek> more like hope it *more than* pays for itself
[20:28:59] <JT-Shop> cool Dan
[20:29:07] <danimal_garage> looks like the want to do a product test and review too, so that's bonus for me as well
[20:29:31] <JT-Shop> a biker magazine I assume?
[20:29:34] <danimal_garage> cradek: yea, totally, i hope it works out
[20:30:06] <JT-Shop> yea, you might have to hire Chong back :)
[20:30:08] <danimal_garage> yes, Bike Magazine
[20:30:24] <danimal_garage> haha i hope not!
[20:30:57] <JT-Shop> get more efficient to make more parts with less time
[20:31:04] <danimal_garage> turns out the publisher is local, i'm doing a bike ride tomorrow morning with him
[20:31:13] <JT-Shop> cool
[20:31:16] <archivist_emc> I knew a magazine owner and he said the add needs to be in for a number of issues, else it wont get noticed, could of been his sales pitch but I think he may have been honest
[20:32:08] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop: i'm working on that. I've been sending a bunch f stuff out for waterjet to save me some time
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[20:32:31] <JT-Shop> neat! how is the edge finish on water jet?
[20:32:37] <danimal_garage> archivist: possible. I'll be in at least 2 issues, hopefully that helps
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[20:33:04] <archivist_emc> he recommended three minimum iirc
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[20:33:37] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop: not bad, but i remachine most of it. i used to make these parts out of round stock, but i switched to plate and i have them waterjet out into doughnuts of different sizes
[20:33:44] <archivist_emc> Ive never done it though :)
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[20:34:12] <danimal_garage> so i save time on the lathe, and i don't have to bandsaw up 4" diameter stainless anymore
[20:34:41] <archivist_emc> we did all the clock gears from sheet too
[20:34:54] <JT-Shop> so you cut out 2 Ops with the water jet
[20:35:07] <danimal_garage> basically, yea
[20:35:14] <JT-Shop> cool
[20:35:49] <danimal_garage> plus i have them cut into diameters that are closer to the finished size, rather than just buying round stock that will fit the biggest size and wasting the rest
[20:35:53] <jdhNC> sounds like you need to buy a waterjet.
[20:36:09] <jdhNC> they are incredibly cool anyway
[20:36:15] <danimal_garage> eh, it's cheap enough to have it done
[20:36:58] <danimal_garage> the cost of the waterjetting is about 2/3 the cost of the saw blades i had to buy to cut it up from bar stock
[20:37:13] <danimal_garage> so it's nearly a wash
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[20:39:49] <danimal_garage> no room for a waterjet in here
[20:39:54] <danimal_garage> barely room for a chair
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[20:40:27] <JT-Shop> plus you save on material and time sizing
[20:40:55] <danimal_garage> yea
[20:41:31] <danimal_garage> i have some other parts that i have waterjetted too, saves me a ton of time
[20:41:34] <JT-Shop> the new shop is so empty atm it has an echo
[20:41:39] <danimal_garage> haha
[20:41:59] <danimal_garage> oh i insulated and drywalled one wall in my shop so far
[20:42:06] <danimal_garage> the wall that gets the most sun
[20:42:09] <JT-Shop> the garage has no room at all
[20:42:13] <JT-Shop> that's got to help
[20:42:20] <danimal_garage> made a big difference
[20:42:22] <JT-Shop> do you have a garage door?
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[20:42:56] <danimal_garage> yea, i put 1.5" foam on that
[20:43:00] <danimal_garage> helped some
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[20:43:21] <danimal_garage> the garage is 78 degrees right now, the house is 83
[20:43:30] <JT-Shop> do you have the good lip seals on the outside?
[20:44:12] <JT-Shop> I added them to my garage and now I can keep it cool all day without much insulation on 3 walls
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[20:44:27] <danimal_garage> not that i know of
[20:44:33] <danimal_garage> i know a lot of sound leaks out
[20:44:44] <danimal_garage> maybe i should look into that
[20:45:06] <JT-Shop> I could not believe the difference that made... took about 30 minutes to install
[20:45:21] <danimal_garage> nice
[20:45:22] <JT-Shop> I could not keep the garage cool past 10am without them
[20:45:25] <danimal_garage> expensive?
[20:45:32] <JT-Shop> $1/foot
[20:45:43] <danimal_garage> not bad
[20:45:51] <JT-Shop> for 3 doors cost me $75... best $75 I ever spent
[20:45:56] <danimal_garage> easy to find at homo depot?
[20:46:36] <JT-Shop> if you have std size doors yea. I got mine from the garage door people, much better seals and cheaper than homo deopt
[20:47:09] <danimal_garage> hmm
[20:47:16] <danimal_garage> i'll look around
[20:47:23] <danimal_garage> thnks for the tip!
[20:47:28] <JT-Shop> np
[20:48:01] <JT-Shop> I would have never thought of it if the garage guy didn't mention it a couple of times when talking about door insulation
[20:48:32] * JT-Shop wanders over to the VMC to make a few chips
[20:51:18] <danimal_garage> me too, mill's running right now
[20:51:25] <danimal_garage> so is the lathe and my laundry
[20:51:46] <danimal_garage> my meter is moving so fast it's just a blur
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[22:08:27] <elmo401> when I weld my meter spins too fast.
[22:08:42] <elmo401> had a $700 electric bill one month! couldn't believe it
[22:10:27] <andypugh> Might not have been true, I am not sure how they cope with very high currents and/or wierd power factrors.
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[22:12:40] <danimal_garage> my bill is always about that much
[22:12:52] <danimal_garage> but i run machines all day
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[22:30:09] <danimal_garage> yawn
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[22:49:30] <elmo401> so it pays for itself
[22:49:57] <elmo401> still can't believe it costs that much to make the electricity... especially since Nuclear is very efficient.
[22:52:34] <danimal_garage> my water bill is more rediculous. i barely use anything and it's $100 a month or more
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[23:03:17] <danimal_garage> i should get a discount because i'm not one of the idiots with a huge lush grass lawn in the friggin desert
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[23:33:32] <andypugh> Anyone know the trick for getting taper rollers apart? I want to inspect the inner race.
[23:36:18] <ries> danimal_garage: well, I think that's teh advantage of the bills here in Ecuador, Water is 2usd, gas around 8 usd, electricity is expensive at 50 usd
[23:39:37] <elmo401> ries: I am moving! :P
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[23:40:06] <ries> wanne switch houses?? :)
[23:40:37] <ries> I want to move to the US and trying to figure out how to approach this
[23:41:30] <Tom_itx> andypugh, it's hard without tweaking the carrier
[23:41:48] <andypugh> Is it even possible?
[23:42:02] <Tom_itx> they got em together
[23:42:09] <Tom_itx> it's possible
[23:42:32] <Tom_itx> i have been known to bend them back in place
[23:42:40] <andypugh> I am trying to decide if the chatter that my lathe suffers from is headstock bearing related. before I blow £10 on a new set (quality lathe, this)
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[23:43:01] <Tom_itx> you should be able to inspect what you need without destruction
[23:43:20] <andypugh> Getting the outer races out is going to need a bar welding across therace to beat upon..
[23:43:30] <Tom_itx> you will see pitting or associated wear if it's the rollers
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[23:43:47] <Tom_itx> how big is it?
[23:43:53] <Tom_itx> several inches diameter?
[23:43:55] <andypugh> 32007
[23:44:02] <KimK> There are some type of bearings where you have to get all of the rollers/balls over to one side to get the races apart. But is there any play? Maybe there is a trick, I hope so?
[23:44:10] <Tom_itx> right
[23:44:21] <Tom_itx> but with the carrier you can't easily do that
[23:44:30] <KimK> Exactly
[23:44:36] <andypugh> Deep-groove balls need you to remove the cage, then push all the balls to one side.
[23:44:46] <Tom_itx> you just about have to tweak it a bit to get the first one out
[23:45:03] <andypugh> I can see how it might all snap together, but un-snappping is more tricky
[23:45:10] <Tom_itx> yup
[23:45:36] <Tom_itx> i would try close non destructive inspection first
[23:45:40] <KimK> Can you clean it with kerosene or some such and then inspect it by "feel", plus whatever you can "glimpse"?
[23:45:42] <andypugh> The rollers are discoloured.
[23:45:53] <Tom_itx> just hot lubricant probably
[23:45:59] <Tom_itx> or are they blue?
[23:46:08] <Tom_itx> if they're blue or grey they're shot
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[23:46:23] <Tom_itx> and you will start to see pits on the race
[23:46:37] <andypugh> As is the inner race. I know it ran without oil for a while because the builder didn't bother to drill the oiler hole all the way through the casting.
[23:46:49] <andypugh> Just a brown colour.
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[23:47:08] <andypugh> But on the surface of the rollers too. (and I would have expected that to polish off)
[23:47:29] <Tom_itx> brown is oil
[23:47:54] <Tom_itx> unless it's the start of heat discoloration on it's way to blue
[23:49:16] <andypugh> It gets warm in use. It once got properly hot (before I discovered the oiler problem). Nasty bit of design, oil drips in from an oil hole, and nothing keeps it there as there is only a plastic swarf-baffle, so it drains straight out again.
[23:49:53] <Tom_itx> http://www.nsk.com/services/maintenancerepairs/maintenance.html
[23:50:48] <KimK> andypugh: Does it look like any of these? (Google Images search "Bearing 32007") http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=911&q=Bearing+32007&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&oq=Bearing+32007&aq=f&aqi=&aql=undefined&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=3815l6939l0l13l13l0l5l1l0l197l1131l2.6l8
[23:51:55] <andypugh> Aye, could be any of the single row ones
[23:53:07] <Tom_itx> you just about have to tweak the fat side of the roller cage to get the first one out if that's the goal
[23:53:46] <Tom_itx> it's usually a softer metal and can bend back if you're careful
[23:53:58] <andypugh> I know what to look for once I have it apart. I need to reassemble to replace the plastic baffle that I broke dismantling though....
[23:53:58] <Tom_itx> if in doubt put a new bearing in it
[23:54:08] <Tom_itx> what do those cost?
[23:54:19] <andypugh> Cheap ones are £5 each.
[23:54:33] <Tom_itx> hardly worth salvaging it
[23:54:47] <andypugh> http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_result.php?sort=2a&search_in_description=0&keywords=32007&x=0&y=0
[23:55:19] <andypugh> No, but at the same time there is little point having the lathe apart for a few days waiting for parts if the existing parts are OK.
[23:55:41] <Tom_itx> order one first and you'll have a spare if you don't need it
[23:58:24] <andypugh> There are two in there.
[23:58:35] <andypugh> Also, getting the outers out is likely to be painful.
[23:58:48] <Tom_itx> just a punch and some patience
[23:58:58] <Tom_itx> or a puller
[23:59:01] <andypugh> They are up against a shoulder, each side of the headstock.
[23:59:40] <Tom_itx> there should be a notch or shoulder where you can access it. if not it's piss poor design