#emc | Logs for 2011-06-28

[00:00:10] <Tom_itx> i suppose most tool grinders do
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[00:05:39] <Valen> whats a good online computer parts store in the UK?
[00:08:14] <archivist_emc> for what definition of good
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[00:10:31] <andypugh> www.aria.co.uk
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[00:10:46] <andypugh> Well, not in the sense of having a working web page today.
[00:10:59] <andypugh> But I have always done OK with them.
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[00:12:02] <Valen> reputable
[00:12:13] <archivist_emc> hmm sentences are in a different order on my two pc's
[00:12:15] <Valen> ordering from overseas for delivery in country
[00:12:37] <jonasthomas-> hello.. I'm a bit of a newb at this, so please forgive a potentially really stupid questions. I having some issues with stepconf. I want to modify and existing hal file to tune up my results but stepconf doesn't seem to be loading custom.hal which contains my charge_pump info. I think I should be able to do this without manually disabling the charge pump right??
[00:12:51] <andypugh> ebuyer have good prices, but there is absolutely no way to talk to a human, which is a bit offputting. I don't know anyone who has actually had a problem with the computer-mediated support though.
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[00:13:53] <archivist_emc> jonasthomas-, stepconf is one way so after you edit stepconf trashes your edits
[00:14:04] <andypugh> stepconf works from its own database file, rather than by back-interpreting the HAL file, so any changes made manually will disappear and need to be re-added
[00:14:08] <archivist_emc> a bug imo
[00:16:56] <jonasthomas-> I think thats what custom.hal does. Matt Shaver was showing me that a the CNC workshop.
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[00:18:27] <jonasthomas-> I suppose I should this try this... Can I load halrun from terminal, add the charge pump and than open another terminal to run stepconf?
[00:19:58] <jonasthomas-> To answer my own question....No....
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[00:42:11] <jonasthomas-> andypugh- I'm a bit confused here..
[00:42:13] <jonasthomas-> In my ini file, I have a
[00:42:14] <jonasthomas-> HALFILE =m_toy_mach.hal (created by stepconf)
[00:42:16] <jonasthomas-> HALFILE= customer.hal (that contains the charge pump info, for the reasons that you stated.)
[00:42:19] <jonasthomas-> So... If I want to start optimizing my system, max speed, stops, etc.... Should I not be using stepconfig?
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[00:52:25] <jonasthomas-> so.. If I have something that basically works I should be backing up my hal and ini files before messing with stepconf. It appears that I need to manually disable the charge pump before messing with stepconf? Does that sound correct?
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[02:08:02] <aggrav8d> hi, emc. I built a robot and I'm trying to make it run gcode. I'm working on drawing arcs at the moment. anyone in here written low level code like that?
[02:08:36] <aggrav8d> and by "Drawing" i mean "making the end effector follow the path of an"
[02:09:48] <elmo40> 'low level code' ?
[02:09:57] <elmo40> is that gcode?
[02:09:58] <aggrav8d> drivers on the controller.
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[02:12:06] <Tom_itx> have you talked to rue about his stuff?
[02:12:13] <alex4nder> aggrav8d: you mean firmware that will understand gcode, and manage the motors?
[02:12:23] <aggrav8d> yeah, i'm writing the firmware.
[02:12:42] <aggrav8d> Tom_itx - he came by my booth at the maker faire yesterday when i wasn't around. friggin' polkaroo.
[02:12:55] <Tom_itx> orly
[02:12:59] <alex4nder> aggrav8d: grab a copy of RS274D and go to town.
[02:13:53] <alex4nder> aggrav8d: also read the EMC2 code,.. the way the code models the interconnected pieces is worth understanding.
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[02:15:17] <aggrav8d> thanks
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[02:35:16] * elmo40 drools! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb9GUoiT3ts&NR=1
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[03:10:10] <Connor> Mach3 and EMC are by far the most commonly used options.
[03:10:11] <Connor> EMC is free, but runs in Linux.
[03:10:11] <Connor> Mach3 is $175
[03:10:11] <Connor> TurboCNC (running DOS) is $60
[03:10:11] <Connor> CNC Zeus (running DOS) is $100
[03:10:11] <Connor> Lots of other options over $1000
[03:10:19] <Connor> My response...
[03:10:29] <Connor> Let me correct that for you: EMC is free, and best of all, it runs on Linux, which is Free also!
[03:11:53] <jdhNC> I thought windows was free, it comes with every computer I have
[03:12:05] <Connor> ROFL.
[03:12:25] <Connor> jdhNC: You get your G0704 ?
[03:12:30] <jdhNC> hell no
[03:12:35] <Connor> WHAT ?
[03:12:37] <jdhNC> they did call the other day and ask if I still wanted it
[03:12:44] <Connor> WTF ?
[03:13:24] <jdhNC> still supposed to ship July1
[03:13:58] <jdhNC> on the bright side, I can actually pay for it now since my scooter was $1k cheaper than planned.
[03:14:27] <Connor> I got mine a few weeks ago now...
[03:14:33] <Connor> didn't you order yours before mine ?
[03:14:40] <jdhNC> Dec. 12 original
[03:14:53] <jdhNC> but they cancelled the order (twice)
[03:15:05] <Connor> So, what the effective order date?
[03:15:48] <Connor> I ordered mine on 4/29/11
[03:16:11] <Connor> was shipped on 6/8
[03:16:35] <Connor> and Delivered on 6/10
[03:16:51] <jdhNC> 2nd order was Feb 14, they cancelled it too
[03:16:57] <Connor> Man their fulfillment process sucks.
[03:17:56] <jdhNC> that order should have 'stuck' since they converted it to an in-house thing of some sort -- shipment date was supposed to be 4/29 then
[03:18:30] <jdhNC> it's mainly just amusing now. I have no place to put it and it's too damned hot
[03:18:53] <Connor> Some guy on CNCzone ordered is like nov or dec, Got it, and it was damaged in shipping.. One of the handwheels was broken.. lord knows what else was damaged
[03:19:12] <jdhNC> and I ended up with a 9x20 lathe a week or so also
[03:19:19] <Connor> He's having to wait till end of July.
[03:19:28] <Connor> That's cool.
[03:19:35] <jdhNC> I'll inspect mine, put it on some harbor freight dollys and try to put it out of the way
[03:20:09] <Connor> My little workspace is AC'ed somewhat.. I need to add a exhaust fan since the room doesn't have a return.
[03:20:18] <Connor> But, it still gets hot... :(
[03:20:24] <Connor> well.. for me..
[03:21:08] <Connor> I got Hoss's CNC conversion videos.. I now need to get a few end mills and find a local place to get some Alum from.
[03:22:49] <Connor> Of course, we do have Alcoa near by.. don't know if they have a way to buy direct from them or not...
[03:24:55] <Tom_itx> what was the big deal about the 704 over some of the others?
[03:25:32] <Connor> Larger Table, stronger frame... Tilting Head. (Over the X3)
[03:25:56] <Connor> better price (when I ordered.. now is the same or $100 more).. but also came with a stand.
[03:26:27] <Tom_itx> i wish it had more Y travel
[03:27:10] <jdhNC> that alcoa plant makes can stock
[03:27:52] <jdhNC> 30,000 lb coils of aluminum, carried around on automated vehicles
[03:28:52] <Connor> they make nothing now.. I think they shut most of it down.
[03:29:49] <jdhNC> wow
[03:31:28] <Connor> Maybe it was temp.. I don't recall.. was something a while back..
[03:31:35] <Connor> Tom_itx: You can extend the Y a bit..
[03:31:47] <Connor> I think Hoss added a inch or so to it..
[03:32:00] <Connor> and reworked the Z for allot more
[03:32:10] <jdhNC> I know a bunch of people that work[ed] there... I did a some contract stuff there in the early 90's (VAX & ModComp)
[03:32:57] <Connor> http://www.alcoa.com/tn_operations/en/news/releases/090329_tva_editorial.asp
[03:35:15] <Connor> It may have been just the Smelting they shutdown...
[03:35:56] <jdhNC> I spent a few years at Rohm & Haas too... are they still around?
[03:36:43] <Connor> Dunno.. quick google search took me to Dow Chemical.
[03:37:44] <Connor> Yup. April 1st, 09 Down completed the acqusition
[03:40:12] <jdhNC> one of the old warehouses there used to be a machine shop or something. Had ceiling mounted shafts/pulleys with big leather belts coming down to distribution places
[03:40:33] <Connor> Cool
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[07:31:31] <mrsunshine_> scrapefest in the machine room
[07:31:38] <mrsunshine_> but damn, my elbow is not good :/
[07:31:41] <mrsunshine_> stupid computer usage
[07:32:01] <mrsunshine_> atleast found one way to do it getting quite good results and getting close to the work at the same time =)
[07:32:14] <mrsunshine_> put the scraper against my choulder and lean forward while sitting =)
[07:34:38] <mrsunshine_> but as usual, no camera no before and after pictures :P
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[08:03:44] <mrsunshine_> hmm, due to the nature of the dovetails that i feel is made the wrong way on this chinease mill i can only scrape the short part using the surface plate not the long part, can i still use the short part as "master" for the long part ?
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[08:13:57] <mazafaka> this junction shall be tight afterwards
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[11:51:25] <jthornton> cradek: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,10584/limit,6/limitstart,24/lang,english/#10909
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[13:51:18] <alex_joni> https://www.surplex.com/de/maschinen/ansicht,7,oelze-granitmessplatte-104476.html?auction_id=176&lotnr=305
[13:52:29] <alex_joni> skunkworks: is this bigger than the K&T? https://www.surplex.com/de/maschinen/ansicht,7,butler-newall-elgamill-he-510-fahrstaenderfraesmaschine-103692.html?auction_id=176&lotnr=95
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[14:56:33] <mazafaka> LOL, this tiny one for probably BMX is the most funniest: http://www.ihatebikes.net/site/blog/backyard-full-of-awesome/
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[15:18:10] <skunkworks> alex_joni: yes - a bit. looks like something stuart would have :)
[15:18:53] <syyl> isnt it nice?
[15:18:54] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-06-27_14-50-22_297.jpg
[15:18:58] <syyl> just a row of deckels :D
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[15:28:57] <tom3p> dmg is now >50% mori seiki ( recent stock acquisition )
[15:29:32] <syyl_> doesnt bother me
[15:29:43] <syyl_> as i dont like the new dmg machines that much :D
[15:29:48] <syyl_> i prefer the classic ones
[15:30:36] <tom3p> KimK the links on http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html/gui/gladevcp.html are broken (all afict ) they point to main wiki page as #blahblahblah )
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[15:34:16] <tom3p> KimK should chg to http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html/gui/gladevcp.html#blahbalhblah from http://www.linuxcnc.org/#blahblahblah
[15:34:25] <tom3p> dang page isnt editable!
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[15:38:36] <ssi> urgh
[15:38:40] <ssi> goddamned airplanes D:
[15:52:14] <moopy> is KimK here?
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[16:01:52] <KimK> tom3p, moopy, I'm here now
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[16:03:04] <tom3p> hello ( u popular guy eh?)
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[16:03:24] <KimK> Ha, sometimes.
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[16:10:52] <tom3p> KimK the links ar ebroken on http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html/gui/gladevcp.html becasue the javascript "Table Of Contents generator" is scragged, it forgot to include the correct base url
[16:11:37] <tom3p> the result is the viewer is passed back to the home page by default
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[16:13:25] <tom3p> maybe someone else can test those links ( me on Namaroka )
[16:14:09] <KimK> Apparently we have a variety of troubles on the home page. OK, I'll mention it to someone. Thanks for reporting it.
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[16:19:34] <KimK> Funny, the links in Chapter 2 (about 25% of the way in) seem to work, but the table of contents links up front don't.
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[16:22:07] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:30:54] <tom3p> KimK youre right, the link IN chapter 2 work ( not in the index but IN chapter 2 ) and the fault is the clever dick javascript auto generation, not the home page.
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[17:02:59] <mazafaka> What if I assign too high feedtrate for the traectory, will EMC2 reduce it to be within tolerance?
[17:06:13] <KimK> mazafaka: Yes, you should not be able to exceed the MAX_VELOCITY = ? setting in the .ini file.
[17:09:50] <mazafaka> What if this MAX Velocity I've assigned is actually too high?
[17:11:11] <KimK> You can reduce the feedrate on the fly using the feedrate slider. Does that help?
[17:11:39] <mazafaka> I'm just learning it, there's no any machine around.
[17:11:48] <KimK> OK.
[17:14:31] <KimK> On the other hand, when I run sim to debug gcode, I like to (also) have a version that has all the velocities turned up about x20. Is that a realistic sim? No, but I can (grossly) examine an hour's worth of gcode in about 4 minutes, so that is handy sometimes too.
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[17:15:59] <mazafaka> yeah, simulation machine can have high feedrate in its settings.
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[17:36:18] <Loetmichel> brb, antivir DEMANDS reboot ;)
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[17:44:08] <mazafaka> Am I right to think that not super-high feedrate is actually much more safe for trajectory, even despite the long time of making out the detail?
[17:46:23] <mazafaka> Or since I have found the acceleration and speed with which machine does nt make wrong steps, I can safely decrease these levels by 50% and thinking it's OK now, The speed is good enough but safe for tolerances to be fine.
[17:48:29] <mazafaka> Do I normally need to investigate with the speed, especially in high-speed cutting (when small amount of material is cut off), or may feel comfortable with my small numbers on MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION lines?
[17:51:43] <mazafaka> People at some forums which I have occasionally read say electric motors can overheat or heat up too fast when they move heavy cross arm of the milling machine at high feedrate with high acceleration.
[17:53:20] <JT-Work> so are you talking about steppers or AC motors?
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[18:49:42] <danimal_garage> hi
[18:54:41] <danimal_garage> anyone use KVIrc?
[18:56:49] <danimal_garage> yawn
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[19:08:07] <JT-Work> HI DAN!
[19:11:36] <danimal_garage> Hey John!
[19:11:40] <danimal_garage> how's it going?
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[19:29:34] <ssi> nuts nuts nuts....
[19:29:55] <ssi> heh now that I have a pretty nicely outfitted shop, the idea of paying a machine shop $80/hr to do anything just makes me die inside :(
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[19:30:30] <jdhNC> then you have to buy stock, tooling, sharpen stuff, clean up, "oh crap, I'll just make another one"
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[19:35:20] <ssi> :P
[19:35:31] <ssi> I have to have valve guides replaced on an airplane cylinder
[19:35:37] <ssi> even if I wanted to do it myself, it's not legal
[19:35:54] <ssi> but dammit, $500 to replace one burnt valve D:
[19:36:09] <jdhNC> I'll sell you an A&P license for $100... paypal is fine.
[19:37:09] <Tom_itx> a friend of mine's dad refurbished old stearmans from the ground up
[19:37:25] <Tom_itx> got alot of engine parts from tanks
[19:37:41] <ssi> my buddy's an A&P
[19:37:50] <ssi> but I think you have to have a repair station cert to do stuff like cylinder work
[19:37:51] <ssi> I may be wrong
[19:38:04] <ssi> either way, I don't WANT to try to do it myself heheh
[19:38:10] <ssi> I just want to gripe about paying for it
[19:41:10] <alex_joni> http://cheesycam.com/sandisk-media-huge-deals/
[19:41:17] <alex_joni> in case anyone needs some SD/CFs
[19:41:19] <jdhNC> I don't even have an airplane cylinder
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[19:42:19] <ssi> I have four of them! :D
[19:42:24] <ssi> but one has a burnt valve
[19:42:54] <jdhNC> don't you have 7 others?
[19:43:12] <Tom_itx> who said it was 8 cyl?
[19:43:18] <jdhNC> 4
[19:43:45] <ssi> I need all my valves!
[19:43:54] <jdhNC> just get emery cloth and clean it up... maybe a little jb weld for the low spots
[19:44:03] <ssi> problem is the guide is sloppy from the heat
[19:44:08] <ssi> and the spring is too short, also from the heat
[19:44:15] <Tom_itx> i bet it's an exhaust valve
[19:44:17] <ssi> yup
[19:44:29] <Tom_itx> intake are self cooling
[19:44:46] <ssi> not sure why it burnt... might have a leaking induction seal
[19:44:52] <Tom_itx> lean
[19:44:56] <Tom_itx> for whatever reason
[19:44:57] <ssi> I'm replacing all the induction seals and intake gaskets while I'm in there
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[19:45:28] <Tom_itx> what engine / plane?
[19:45:36] <ssi> o320-e3d on a cherokee 140
[19:46:11] <Tom_itx> who made cherokee? i forget
[19:46:14] <ssi> piper
[19:46:31] <Tom_itx> first two guesses were beech or cessna
[19:46:48] <Tom_itx> they used to build those here i think
[19:47:03] <Tom_itx> bee dee was close by too
[19:47:18] <jdhNC> kansas or something like that?
[19:47:21] <ssi> piper's in vero beach
[19:47:22] <Tom_itx> ys
[19:47:25] <ssi> almost everyone else is in wichita
[19:47:36] <ssi> beech and cessna for sure
[19:47:37] <Tom_itx> well years ago i thought they were here
[19:47:52] <Tom_itx> beech, cessna, learjet, boeing
[19:48:09] <jdhNC> I'd rather be in vero beach
[19:48:22] <ssi> :D
[19:49:17] <Tom_itx> too humid
[19:49:19] <ssi> trying to get my airplane together cause I'm going to oshkosh at the end of july
[19:49:31] <jdhNC> where are you?
[19:49:44] <ssi> I'm in atlanta
[19:49:54] <jdhNC> I'd rather be in vero beach
[19:50:02] <Tom_itx> i was stuck there for 10 hrs once
[19:50:06] <Tom_itx> that was enough
[19:50:35] <jdhNC> can you get me 5 really good braves tickets for july 28?
[19:50:46] <ssi> probably
[19:50:52] <jdhNC> free?
[19:50:52] <ssi> I have a voucher book worth about $250
[19:50:58] <jdhNC> <-cheap bastard
[19:51:11] <ssi> at work they have days when I can buy tickets with them for double face value
[19:51:16] <ssi> so $500 worth of tix
[19:52:08] <jdhNC> my wife is making us go to a braves game and six flags... I'm pretty sure July 29 will be the hottest day ever in atlanta.
[19:52:42] <ssi> oh I'm sure it will
[19:52:45] <ssi> I'll be in wisconsin :D
[19:53:49] <jdhNC> camping?
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[19:54:58] <ssi> ya, north 40 camping
[19:55:04] <ssi> taking either the cherokee or a friend's aztec
[19:55:07] <ssi> I'm hoping for the aztec
[19:55:24] <ssi> 170kt makes it a 4 hour trip
[19:55:33] <ssi> $1400 in fuel vs $750 tho
[19:55:33] <ssi> :(
[20:04:12] <jdhNC> $175 for fuel if you drive a corolla
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[20:06:45] <psha> ssi: you drive tank?
[20:35:46] <mrsunshine_> scraped so much today my finger wont wake up again
[20:35:55] <mrsunshine_> and DAMN the bed of the mill is not good
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[20:43:56] <danimal_garage> yuck, scraping ways does not sound fun
[20:48:23] <mrsunshine_> well it is when i so fast can see the improvements at making it flat
[20:48:28] <mrsunshine_> tho the dovetails wont be fun :P
[20:48:45] <mrsunshine_> do not have enough measuring equipment for doing those either :/
[20:49:28] <danimal_garage> i need to scrape my manual mill
[20:49:46] <danimal_garage> but i barely use it so i probably never will
[20:51:44] <danimal_garage> i finally build another computer for the garage so i have irc again!
[20:51:44] <danimal_garage> actually it was the lack of a monitor that was holding me up
[20:52:12] <danimal_garage> i installed linux on this one, it's my first non-windows computer, aside from my 2 emc2 powered machines
[20:54:10] <danimal_garage> i already like thunderbird a little better than windows live mail
[20:57:30] <danimal_garage> i just need to get the file sharing working properly between this machine and windows
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[21:03:36] <mrsunshine_> hmm thinking of sand blasting the mill, but how do i protect the ways so they dont get damaged
[21:03:37] <mrsunshine_> hmm
[21:03:59] <mrsunshine_> as the chinease doesnt even care about cleaining the castings before painting
[21:04:10] <mrsunshine_> alot of cast sand included in the paint and even thick layers painted in
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[21:12:17] <danimal_garage> tape
[21:12:28] <mrsunshine_> but wont that just blast away? :)
[21:12:53] <danimal_garage> not usually unless you go nuts with it
[21:14:21] <mrsunshine_> hehe, so tape as in masking tape or just ordenary electrician tape? :)
[21:15:24] <danimal_garage> masking
[21:15:54] <danimal_garage> just be careful around the edges so it doesnt blow under it
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[22:01:25] <JT-Work> I'm doing good danimal_garage, I've almost got my new shop complete
[22:02:14] * Tom_itx plans a hostile takeover
[22:07:45] <danimal_garage> nice JT-Work!
[22:07:47] <danimal_garage> pics?
[22:13:29] <danimal_garage> JT-Work: all those tornados miss your area?
[22:14:00] <danimal_garage> sounds like they missed your shop at least
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[22:48:32] <andypugh> I might just have written a driver for http://www.artisan-scientific.com/67475.htm
[22:48:42] <andypugh> It's hard to be sure, I don't have one :-)
[22:50:36] <elmo401> umm-kay
[22:50:46] <elmo401> want me to buy one and try to make it work? ;)
[22:51:08] <andypugh> It looks like quite a reasonable card if you have an ISA bus.
[22:51:12] <elmo401> oohh, can I use that card for my encoder?
[22:52:28] <elmo401> says ttl-level digi input.
[22:52:43] <andypugh> Well, the "driver" is a simple bit of comp, and so only currently support parport speeds. I wonder if the onboard counter functions could be used for encoders?
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[22:56:54] <elmo401> says it has a 1MHz base clock. isn't that fast enough?
[22:57:34] <danimal_garage> you guys are still goofing around i see
[22:57:57] <elmo401> never
[22:58:13] <andypugh> I am only using the digital IO, it is more of a high pin count parport
[22:58:20] <elmo401> I am still in the midst of getting my work to sneak in a few parts on the laser bed ;)
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[22:59:07] <elmo401> going to modify my BBQ... nothing says back yard cooking like custom pieces made from aircraft titanium
[22:59:45] <andypugh> LOX jets. Every BBQ needs lOX jets.
[23:01:29] <andypugh> How to make a 12mm deep hole with 1mm corner radiuses?
[23:01:40] <elmo401> my rotisserie is a little weak. making brackets to bring it up more so it can hold a pig
[23:02:27] <danimal_garage> EDM
[23:02:31] <elmo401> nice
[23:02:42] <elmo401> waterjet? that is only 1/2"
[23:02:51] <andypugh> blind-ended
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[23:03:10] <andypugh> I have some lovely little boring bars, but no way to hold them.
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[23:03:45] <elmo401> vice grips?
[23:03:48] <elmo401> >_<
[23:04:15] <andypugh> supermini 105 http://www.phorn.de/en/products/grooving/
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[23:05:03] <andypugh> (I wonder how many people bore 0.2mm holes on a lathe?)
[23:05:18] <elmo401> that is tiny!
[23:05:26] <andypugh> It's not big.
[23:05:35] <elmo401> what is the tolerance on those holes. 0.005mm?
[23:05:42] <JT-Shop> I can't even spell 0.2 mm holes on a lathe
[23:05:48] <elmo401> lol
[23:06:04] <elmo401> my new shop, 0.2m is the norm
[23:06:16] <JT-Shop> hot damm I got me a worker bee to paint the shop
[23:06:22] <elmo401> nice
[23:06:26] <elmo401> paid in food?
[23:06:37] <elmo401> speaking of food... time for a beer
[23:06:47] <ds3> 0.2mm is about 0.005
[23:06:48] <danimal_garage> paid in tacos?
[23:06:50] <JT-Shop> minimum wage
[23:06:54] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan
[23:06:56] <ds3> Hmmm
[23:07:04] <danimal_garage> hi John
[23:07:08] <JT-Shop> elmo401: your 3 behind me now
[23:07:17] <ds3> the guys making nozzles for a 3D printer might be doing that size
[23:07:27] <JT-Shop> have you seen the shop photos Dan?
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[23:07:53] <danimal_garage> not recently!
[23:08:12] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/machine-shop.xhtml
[23:09:06] <andypugh> I wonder if Mach users get a brand-new driver within 18 hours of asking?
[23:09:50] <elmo401> JT-Shop: did you negotiate over a beer?
[23:09:57] <robin_sz> is Mach still going?
[23:09:59] <elmo401> andypugh: they get drivers?
[23:10:01] <JT-Shop> he is a ute
[23:10:01] <elmo401> lol
[23:10:09] <elmo401> what is min-wage these days?
[23:10:15] <danimal_garage> nice JT-Shop!
[23:10:17] * JT-Shop looking
[23:10:22] <JT-Shop> thanks Dan
[23:10:39] <andypugh> robin_sz: Did you see that HLV on that eBay?
[23:10:49] <robin_sz> nope
[23:11:18] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hardinge-HLV-H-Lathe-/230638882253
[23:11:41] <JT-Shop> elmo401: $7.25 per hour in Missouri
[23:12:11] <robin_sz> nice
[23:12:21] <andypugh> Cheap (at the moment)
[23:12:26] <robin_sz> I suppose I could shove the Colchester up a few feet
[23:12:28] <JT-Shop> the communist stat of Illinois is $8.25hr
[23:12:33] <JT-Shop> state
[23:12:41] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, on you pendant, what resolution selections do you have?
[23:12:52] <JT-Shop> I don't have a pendant LOL
[23:12:54] <Tom_itx> is it .01 .001 .0001?
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[23:13:09] <Tom_itx> on your hardinge?
[23:13:13] <robin_sz> andypugh, there was a bit of a mixup when I bought that colchester student on ebay
[23:13:23] <robin_sz> andypugh, I was hoping for a blonde one
[23:13:28] <JT-Shop> on the CHNC the MPG is selectable to 0.1 0.01 0.001
[23:13:45] <Tom_itx> using 2 io
[23:13:52] <Tom_itx> default is .1
[23:13:53] <Tom_itx> ?
[23:13:58] <andypugh> I was about to formulate a humorous reply about the University of Essex and Blondes.
[23:13:59] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I lied your correct
[23:14:11] <robin_sz> andypugh, I was way ahead of you there
[23:14:20] <JT-Shop> default is 0.0001
[23:14:21] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna try to scribe some txt on the face
[23:14:48] <Tom_itx> so it goes .0001 .001 .01 clockwise?
[23:14:55] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-10.xhtml
[23:15:21] <JT-Shop> 0.0001 is no input
[23:15:37] <Tom_itx> what is 'off' then?
[23:15:44] <JT-Shop> no input
[23:15:59] <JT-Shop> I salvaged the switched from some machinery
[23:16:04] <robin_sz> andypugh, according to my wife, midnight is a non-suitable time to give a loud rendition of the B52s on bass, damn miserable people round here
[23:16:20] <danimal_garage> i have my mpg on my mill set to .01, .001, and .0001"
[23:17:10] <JT-Shop> I all most never use 0.0001
[23:17:13] <elmo401> on a ill? 0.0001" ? crazy.
[23:17:18] <elmo401> who needs that kind of accuracy?
[23:17:22] <andypugh> I admit to an ambition to have a house somewhere where experimenting with trebuchets at midnight is unlikely to upset anyone.
[23:17:39] <JT-Shop> ballista for me
[23:18:03] <JT-Shop> with interchangeable slides for round objects or bolts
[23:18:04] <danimal_garage> i use it for touching off tools.
[23:18:08] <robin_sz> andypugh, well, got 7 acres here ...
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[23:18:25] <Tom_itx> well if it's wrong, i'll just face mill the plate and start over
[23:18:27] <andypugh> OK for undersized trebuchets then
[23:18:32] <robin_sz> well yes
[23:18:47] <robin_sz> unless you aim it towards golfcourse
[23:18:57] <robin_sz> they (mostly) dont play at night
[23:19:18] <JT-Shop> LOL or anemic ones
[23:19:38] <robin_sz> andypugh, I saw rthis Hardinge . .. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HARDINGE-2-AXIS-CNC-OMNI-TURN-SECOND-OP-LATHE-/360375517041?pt=BI_Lathes&hash=item53e80dff71
[23:19:48] <robin_sz> would be a VERY easy conversion
[23:19:59] <danimal_garage> one less golfer wouldn't hurt. just aim for the politicians
[23:20:19] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop: did the tornados come close to you?
[23:20:33] <robin_sz> I could shout "fore" before I lobbed the piano over
[23:20:36] <andypugh> Yes, I saw that too. The Omni-turn is a bolt-on conversion for any lathe, AFAIK
[23:20:51] <robin_sz> pity its in the states
[23:21:10] <ds3> experimenting with trebuchets at midnight might be the only possible time in a lot of places ;)
[23:21:58] <robin_sz> i doubt they need a licence
[23:23:18] <ds3> what's units of the F parameter if a machine is in metric mode?
[23:23:26] <robin_sz> yes
[23:23:30] <JT-Shop> danimal_garage: kinda close yea
[23:23:54] <robin_sz> ds3, kinda depends on the machine
[23:24:05] <robin_sz> ds3, mills are often in mm/minute
[23:24:08] <ds3> robin_sz: okay, what about for EMC?
[23:24:19] <robin_sz> lasers and plasamas in m/min
[23:24:27] <JT-Shop> ds3: what ever you want them to be
[23:24:32] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop: i was wondering about that, i knew you were in that area
[23:24:32] <ds3> so mm/s is not common?
[23:24:46] <robin_sz> ds3, in emc i believ its in units per minute
[23:24:55] <robin_sz> whatever your unit is
[23:24:58] <robin_sz> mm presumably
[23:25:03] <JT-Shop> yes, "user units per minute"
[23:25:05] <ds3> <-- trying to understand the reprap guys quoting mm/s all over
[23:25:33] <ds3> can't seem to do the multiple by 60 in my head quickly :(
[23:26:30] <robin_sz> mm/s ? meh
[23:26:38] <robin_sz> that makes chip calcs difficult
[23:27:07] <andypugh> Only if you are perverse enough not to set spindle speed in the natural units (rad/sec)
[23:27:17] <robin_sz> rads?
[23:27:26] <robin_sz> yuk. whats wrong with Tau?
[23:27:36] <ds3> S300pi
[23:28:20] <ds3> well, there are minor glitches with their dialect of g-code :( they don't implement G00 so G01/G00 are the same thing for them
[23:28:31] <robin_sz> eh?
[23:28:33] <jdhNC> happy Tau Day
[23:28:45] <robin_sz> ds3, who are these people?
[23:29:03] <ds3> robin_sz: reprap folks
[23:29:08] <robin_sz> reprap?
[23:29:10] <robin_sz> wassat?
[23:29:12] <ds3> 3D printer
[23:29:24] <robin_sz> ah,
[23:29:24] <ds3> www.reprap.org
[23:29:39] <robin_sz> wonder why they drive off gcode
[23:29:49] <ds3> *shrug*
[23:29:56] <robin_sz> would have thought one of the printer langs woudl have been better
[23:30:03] <JT-Shop> andypugh: cool comp you worked up for the artisan-scientific :0
[23:30:09] <ds3> I suppose it is better then inventing yet another lang
[23:30:10] <JT-Shop> :)
[23:30:12] <ds3> printer langs don't do 3D
[23:30:16] <TekniQue> robin_sz: is there a printer lang for 3D printing?
[23:30:48] <andypugh> Postscript?
[23:30:59] <robin_sz> TekniQue, well, there is nt a gcode for 3d printing, but like they adapated gcode, a simple adpatation of a common printerlang would have worked
[23:31:06] <robin_sz> yeah, ps for example
[23:31:11] <robin_sz> one sheet per layer?
[23:31:20] <TekniQue> I guess one could monkey postscript into doing it
[23:31:47] <robin_sz> anyway, they used gcode, or something that looks like gcode anyway ;)
[23:32:05] <ds3> that won't work
[23:32:09] <andypugh> one sheet per layer? (But I used HPGL generated from STL) https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5478341215134773746
[23:32:12] <robin_sz> hah!
[23:32:13] <ds3> they are still moving a tool head in 3 dimensions
[23:32:28] <robin_sz> they are?
[23:32:34] <robin_sz> weird printer then
[23:32:42] <ds3> this is used to tell where the head to go based on a CAM system deciding how thick to run the layers and what the fill pattern is
[23:32:44] <robin_sz> most only do 2
[23:32:51] <TekniQue> although Postscript is better at describing raster and photo apertures
[23:32:58] <TekniQue> than machine movements
[23:33:27] <ds3> you can make a 3D printer by taking their extruder head and slapping it on a mill
[23:33:27] <andypugh> Postscript defines vector outline, rasterised by the RIP...
[23:33:38] <robin_sz> ds3, the vast majority of 3d printers are 2.5d motion, 2 coordinmated axes and then a screw to lower the platform, but thats a non coardianted axis
[23:33:58] <ds3> robin_sz: yes, you are correct. 2.5D is a more accurate description
[23:34:07] <ds3> so refitting an old bridge port would be....
[23:34:19] <robin_sz> ?
[23:34:25] <TekniQue> what do you mean non coardianted?
[23:34:38] <ds3> i just wish everyone would try better to keep the G-code the same
[23:35:02] <andypugh> There is a nice machine at work. 3D-prints in bonded sand, then pours molten iron or ali into the cavity... Cylinder heads direct from CAD.
[23:35:03] <robin_sz> TekniQue, that you can make a move in x, Y and Z together and they hit the end poitn together
[23:35:11] <elmo401> I need to locate a stainless 3/8" square rod/tube about 18" long. any idea on price for such a thing?
[23:35:14] <ds3> no coordinated Z would imply something like you can't do a G03 type move in the X/Z or Y/Z plane
[23:35:21] <TekniQue> ah
[23:35:25] * robin_sz nods
[23:35:36] <JT-Shop> elmo401: what part of the world are you in?
[23:35:45] <robin_sz> in a 3d printer you never need to move Z when X and Y are moving
[23:35:48] <ds3> non coordinated A would probally mean you can't cut screws using the Z axis on an A
[23:36:31] <robin_sz> that
[23:36:46] <robin_sz> Haas do noncoordinated extra axes
[23:36:52] <robin_sz> that talk over RS232
[23:37:13] <ds3> never got a chance to try extra axises on any real machine
[23:37:30] <robin_sz> looking forward to playing with our 4th axis :)
[23:37:42] <ds3> going to make some turbine blades as demos?
[23:37:45] <danimal_garage> i want a 4th axis!
[23:37:48] <danimal_garage> and a 5th axis
[23:38:03] <andypugh> elmo401: Well, it exists: http://www.steelexpress.co.uk/non-ferrous/stainless-steel-tube.html
[23:38:16] <JT-Shop> I want to get my BP Series 1 over here and convert it to EMC2
[23:39:19] <robin_sz> andypugh, good resource
[23:39:41] <danimal_garage> anyone ever passivate stainless on their own?
[23:39:45] <robin_sz> yes
[23:40:01] <robin_sz> we used to on all tig and mig welds
[23:40:02] <danimal_garage> how?
[23:40:06] <robin_sz> two ways
[23:40:11] <robin_sz> 1) paste
[23:40:18] <robin_sz> 2) electrically
[23:40:37] <robin_sz> (using about 20VAC and phosphoric acid)
[23:40:42] <danimal_garage> how'd you do it electcially?
[23:40:44] <danimal_garage> ah
[23:40:52] <robin_sz> I have a machine for it :)
[23:41:22] <robin_sz> google "Fronius magiclean"
[23:41:36] <robin_sz> if you need to do a lot, I recommend it
[23:41:41] <robin_sz> safer than the past
[23:41:44] <robin_sz> paste
[23:41:49] <danimal_garage> cool, thanks
[23:41:55] <danimal_garage> i have to do it fairly frequently
[23:42:12] <danimal_garage> some parts i make on a regular basis are 410ss
[23:42:13] <andypugh> elmo401: Can you use 1/2"? http://cgi.ebay.com/STAINLESS-STEEL-SQUARE-TUBE-1-2-x1-2-x-062-x72-304-/260706202643
[23:44:46] <elmo401> no
[23:44:47] <elmo401> too large
[23:44:53] <robin_sz> danimal_garage, im not sure it technally counts as passivation
[23:44:55] <elmo401> would have to mill the entire length down :P
[23:45:19] <danimal_garage> hmm
[23:45:21] <robin_sz> danimal_garage, but it is used after tig welding to clean and preapre the metal to prevent it oxidising
[23:45:23] <elmo401> I would like tube, but don't think anyone makes it that small in square format. I will settle for solid
[23:45:36] <robin_sz> danimal_garage, its the accepted treatment post welding
[23:45:51] <robin_sz> danimal_garage, that, or paste. restores the properties of the metal
[23:46:04] <danimal_garage> i just dont want them to rust
[23:46:11] <robin_sz> danimal_garage, paste is cheaper, but not pleasant to work with
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[23:46:50] <robin_sz> danimal_garage, allow me to consult my plating expert tomorrow and get back to you
[23:47:12] <robin_sz> for welded stuff, this restores the metal
[23:47:21] <robin_sz> if you need more than that, it will be electrolytic
[23:47:39] <robin_sz> we did lots and lots of 316 marine stuff
[23:48:07] <danimal_garage> you don't have to ask, i can probably google it and find something
[23:48:15] <robin_sz> never had a problem with it after using either method
[23:48:20] <danimal_garage> i'm going to call caswell plating in the morning
[23:48:26] <robin_sz> right
[23:49:43] <robin_sz> I have a feeling its just nitric dip
[23:50:07] <robin_sz> the nitric eats away the iron, leaving an enhanced nickel layer
[23:50:33] <robin_sz> so may not even need volts
[23:50:55] <robin_sz> in which case the paste will work ... its a mix of HF and Nitric though
[23:51:31] <robin_sz> so, read the leaflet, and keep the antidote gel handy
[23:51:42] <robin_sz> HF is unpleasant
[23:51:53] <elmo401> 316 is preferred. 304 will suffice
[23:52:57] <JT-Shop> that does sound like some fun stuff
[23:53:23] <robin_sz> I hated having it in production
[23:53:32] * JT-Shop wanders in to start some dinner cooking
[23:53:37] <robin_sz> the fronius was MUCH better and safer
[23:53:48] <robin_sz> but costs ~800
[23:53:55] <robin_sz> gbp
[23:54:16] <robin_sz> danimal_garage, you in the UK?
[23:54:41] <danimal_garage> no, USA
[23:54:57] <robin_sz> in that case, you can;t borrow it easily
[23:55:03] <robin_sz> its sitting in the shed unused
[23:55:07] <danimal_garage> haha awww come on!
[23:55:19] <elmo401> ship is cheap.
[23:55:23] <elmo401> open borders
[23:55:26] <robin_sz> if you were local, you would have been welcome
[23:55:52] <robin_sz> make your own from a low voltage transormer and a tank of phosphoric :)
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[23:56:17] <danimal_garage> yea i'll figure something out
[23:56:56] <robin_sz> here: http://www.euro-inox.org/pdf/map/Passivating_Pickling_EN.pdf .. its from Inox, so will be right
[23:58:41] <danimal_garage> ahh cool thanks
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