#emc | Logs for 2011-06-26

[00:00:00] <robin_sz> MuPie, a new screw from MarchantDice on ebay?
[00:00:22] <MuPie> yeah, i got a quote of as much as the machine cost
[00:00:30] <robin_sz> MuPie, we tossed out two Beaver NC25's recently, for £1000 each
[00:00:35] <robin_sz> fully working
[00:00:49] <MuPie> I am waiting on some special size bearings to refill the nut
[00:00:54] <Valen> i didn't say I knew more than you did i?
[00:00:59] <robin_sz> you assumed
[00:01:08] <Valen> no i didn't
[00:01:11] <robin_sz> whatever
[00:01:14] <Valen> I disagreed with you saying that EMC can only be used as a toy
[00:01:26] <MuPie> I assume everyone knows nothing
[00:01:57] <MuPie> i only use emc as a toy
[00:02:01] <robin_sz> I said I wuold not put it on a machine in a production situation, o replace a working control on a machine I might want to sell
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[00:02:27] <robin_sz> but for personal projects, it can;t be beat
[00:02:58] <Valen> right so windows on anything important it is
[00:03:13] <Valen> you can use linux to play with
[00:03:21] <MuPie> I would rather use linux than windows for important stuff
[00:03:29] <robin_sz> you are, sir, an idiot. welcome to my ignore list.
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[00:03:48] <Valen> lol
[00:04:06] -!- theorbtwo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[00:04:06] <robin_sz> MuPie, I run linux all day, every day and have done since .. ohh, 98 or so
[00:04:10] <MuPie> I never have any important stuff though
[00:04:13] theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:04:22] <Valen> see my belief is that a company who depends on things should be able to support themselves
[00:04:28] <MuPie> is this a pissing contest?
[00:04:47] <MuPie> I use linux since 1994
[00:04:49] <Valen> MuPie: no, i think that i just feel differently to robin_sz and as such i'm stupid
[00:05:32] <robin_sz> MuPie, so, anyway, you are in the UK?
[00:05:37] <MuPie> I think people use what they know and trust, its hard work getting people to change their ways
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[00:05:56] <MuPie> I am in the UK
[00:06:09] <robin_sz> same, nr Worcester
[00:06:21] <MuPie> I live in the deep south
[00:06:28] <robin_sz> poor you :)
[00:06:45] <robin_sz> we picked the mill up from Wiltshire
[00:06:59] <MuPie> I dont think I have ever been north of oxfordshire
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[00:07:09] <JT-Shop> I have a customer that uses only Allen Bradley and Fanuc only because their 100+ techs know that hardware and to teach all the old dogs new tricks is not cost effective
[00:07:14] <robin_sz> gah! ... the best bits are north of Oxford
[00:07:43] <Valen> JT-Shop: sounds fair
[00:08:01] <MuPie> ooop north they all use lathes and mills
[00:08:08] <JT-Shop> then I have other customers that don't know a plc from a linear actuator and I use what I want
[00:08:10] <MuPie> we are all bankers down south
[00:08:23] <robin_sz> JT-Shop, exactly. for home, hobby, or single-owner shop use, where the guy who is runing the place can sort it out if it goes wrong, EMC would be a great choice
[00:09:04] <robin_sz> would I want it on the shop floor of a a shop 100 miles away and im the only one who knows what to type when it goes wrong? not thanks.
[00:09:43] <robin_sz> MuPie, ah, there is that. so why not just buy a new mill on your £0.5m easter bonus?
[00:10:12] <MuPie> I am still trying to distribute my emc2 hal configuration system, but the latest problem is ssh is telling me there is a man in the middle attack????
[00:10:32] <Valen> MuPie: you have sshed to that machine before
[00:10:38] <Valen> then reinstalled or some such
[00:10:41] <robin_sz> mmm, probably just the host signature changed
[00:10:45] <JT-Shop> yea my DB9 bulkhead fittings are done time for dinner
[00:10:48] <Valen> or your machines have changed address
[00:11:09] <robin_sz> MuPie, delete the entry from you .ssh/known_hosts file, the error will tell you which is the offending line
[00:11:13] <MuPie> yes, I contacted the server tech support and they said the server key had not changed
[00:11:20] <Valen> just delete the line in .ssh/known_hosts that it tells you about
[00:11:53] <MuPie> but I am worried my system may be compromised
[00:11:57] <Valen> is it a shared server or some such your connecting to?
[00:12:07] <robin_sz> its unlikely to be a man-in-the-middle attack, and its only EMC, not state secrets :)
[00:12:13] <MuPie> I was told the ssh server had not changed key
[00:12:31] <MuPie> I like to get to the bottom of problems
[00:12:31] <Valen> it may not have but it may be running through a pool of ip addresses
[00:12:37] <robin_sz> acessing by name or ip?
[00:12:43] <Valen> and as soon as it reuses an address it will barf
[00:13:01] <MuPie> its a vmware image, running bridged ip
[00:13:20] <MuPie> access by name, the server ip is the same as it was
[00:13:25] <robin_sz> yes, but did you access it by a dns name, or an ip address?
[00:13:29] <robin_sz> right
[00:13:36] <Valen> download the new key and see if it matches
[00:13:39] <robin_sz> have you used that name for somehting else before?
[00:13:57] <MuPie> name and ip match what was used last time i ssh in to the server
[00:14:42] <MuPie> If I download the new key I would be downloading the man in the middles key!
[00:14:59] <Valen> yes and see if it matches something else in you .known hosts
[00:15:05] <robin_sz> ssh into the server and check its key fingerprint
[00:15:19] <Valen> you don't need to actually connect to it to do that
[00:15:23] <MuPie> the server i am ssh into is a service providers webhosting server
[00:15:42] <Valen> so wheres the VMware thing come into play?
[00:15:56] <Valen> oh your bouncing your connection?
[00:16:08] <MuPie> I run my emc devel in an emc image run on my windows system
[00:16:15] <robin_sz> well, somehow you got an entry in your know_hosts file for a machine of that name
[00:16:20] <robin_sz> shudder
[00:16:39] <robin_sz> and it works?
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[00:17:01] <Valen> if he only runs sim it should work fine
[00:17:04] <MuPie> it is only for devel, i have never tried actual interfacing via the parallel port
[00:17:16] <robin_sz> i would have expected the realtime stuff to be totally screwed
[00:17:21] <robin_sz> ah right
[00:17:24] <Valen> sim has no realtime
[00:18:13] <MuPie> I just find it easier to run it as a virtual machine, then I can run it anywhere, if I upgrade my laptop
[00:18:24] <Valen> I do the same for my dad
[00:18:32] <robin_sz> mmm, for code devel, that will be fine
[00:18:35] <Valen> he checks all his gcode in a vmware image running sim
[00:19:00] <Valen> the drag+drop support for file xfer is good... when it works
[00:19:16] <MuPie> as I only code and test, I only have two emc machines and they are in the work shop, not nice to sit infront of and write code
[00:19:27] <robin_sz> nope :)
[00:19:52] <robin_sz> when you say "code and test" .. you mean emc software or GCODE?
[00:20:00] <MuPie> emc software
[00:20:04] <robin_sz> right
[00:20:08] <Valen> I need to setup the reverse, get a copy of the CAD working on the mill ;->
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[00:20:30] <robin_sz> i wonder if anyone writes gcode by hand still? I suppose someone must somewhere
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[00:20:43] <Valen> its easier for small things sometimes
[00:20:54] <Valen> or to tweak it by hand when the CAM is being daft
[00:20:57] <MuPie> I have never actually writen any gcode
[00:21:13] <robin_sz> well, I have in the past, but it's some years now
[00:21:33] <robin_sz> use the Trumpf software for the lasers
[00:21:40] <robin_sz> and visual mill for the mill
[00:21:46] <MuPie> I have only ever run my cnc mill once properly, even though I been using emc for 4 years
[00:21:59] <Valen> MuPie: why not lol?
[00:22:06] <MuPie> Its only a hobby
[00:22:20] <robin_sz> actually, we found some excellent software for the router, windows, but meh.
[00:22:30] <robin_sz> vectric.
[00:22:36] <MuPie> I seem to get things completed, then take them apart cause I see an improvement
[00:23:02] <robin_sz> hehe
[00:23:12] <MuPie> I started with a chester lathe/mill/drill combi machine
[00:23:34] <MuPie> cnc the x and y tested it
[00:23:59] <MuPie> then pulled it apart and tried to get the z cnc
[00:24:02] <robin_sz> mmm, I did a router .. but that was .. oh, ages and ages ago .. 96?
[00:24:29] <robin_sz> and after that, built and sold EMC powered plasmas
[00:25:01] <robin_sz> although I did build a few Mach2 powered plasmas
[00:25:10] <MuPie> getting the z vaguely accurate took almost a year, then I took it all apart and put ballscrews on two axes
[00:25:13] * robin_sz tries to wipe the memory
[00:25:25] <robin_sz> heh, good call
[00:25:26] <MuPie> chinese machines can be really shit
[00:25:30] <robin_sz> ballscrews are your friend
[00:25:35] <robin_sz> no kidding
[00:25:39] <robin_sz> like chinese power amps
[00:25:49] <robin_sz> I love the chinese! ...
[00:26:02] <MuPie> they are cheap, but worth every penny
[00:26:04] <robin_sz> forever sending crap power amps over here to make ours look good :)
[00:26:22] <robin_sz> <bang> ... oh there went another one
[00:27:06] <MuPie> I actually got some fairly reasonable stepper drivers from china, direct through ebay
[00:27:14] <robin_sz> really?
[00:27:26] <robin_sz> microstepping?
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[00:27:40] <Valen> we use chinese ballscrews in place of the chinese acme screws our mill came with ;->
[00:27:56] <Valen> but we put .001mm glass linear scales on the axes and use that for the feedback
[00:28:04] <MuPie> £30 for a 3 axis 1/16th micro step, and not blown up yet
[00:28:20] <robin_sz> ah, I suspect I know what chip
[00:28:24] <robin_sz> 35V?
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[00:28:28] <Valen> also we got a 2.2Kw spindle and VFD and they haven't even blown up yet
[00:28:38] <MuPie> yeah 35v
[00:28:44] <Valen> the bearing in them is surprisingly large and works well
[00:28:47] <robin_sz> the Thompson chip
[00:29:07] <robin_sz> 35V istn really enough to get the best out of modern steppers, but if its cheap enough
[00:29:24] <robin_sz> then no worries
[00:29:29] <MuPie> i think the chips were tb5560??? cant quite remember??
[00:29:36] <robin_sz> yep
[00:29:43] <robin_sz> I like the gecko stuff myself
[00:30:00] <robin_sz> got lots of geckos :)
[00:30:05] <MuPie> to get decent speed you need a higher voltage
[00:30:10] <robin_sz> yes
[00:30:18] <MuPie> but for hobby use they are cheap and they work
[00:30:21] <robin_sz> and to keep torque at decent speeds
[00:30:49] <robin_sz> I have spun a stepper VERY fast with decent voltages
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[00:30:59] <robin_sz> I think Marris managed 3000rpm
[00:31:19] <MuPie> I am not sure but I think the drives may be modifyable to higher voltage??
[00:31:26] <robin_sz> nope
[00:31:30] <robin_sz> not on that chip
[00:31:33] <robin_sz> AFAIK
[00:31:55] <robin_sz> soon as you said 1/6th ... I guessed what it was :)
[00:32:23] <MuPie> I would not think it was worth trying to mod them
[00:32:31] <robin_sz> the trick with steppers is to gear them so they spin fast
[00:32:50] <MuPie> probably the motor inductance is important
[00:33:06] <robin_sz> all too often ppl go "oh, it stalls sometime, must be spinning too fast, I'll gear it down"
[00:33:19] <robin_sz> the real answer is to gear up and let it spiiiiiin
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[00:33:23] <MuPie> at high speeds the reactance is much higher, so you need higher voltage to get the right current
[00:33:31] <robin_sz> yep
[00:33:58] <robin_sz> a stepper produces maximum power at its "corner frequency"
[00:34:10] <robin_sz> and cosntant power above there
[00:34:24] <robin_sz> yes, the torque curve slopes off
[00:34:30] <robin_sz> as the revs go up
[00:34:45] <MuPie> yeah i'm sure I read something about that mid band reasonance
[00:34:49] <robin_sz> but if you do the maths, the power output is actually constant
[00:34:58] <robin_sz> on the slope bit
[00:35:30] <robin_sz> so, you need to spin fast ebnough to use the motors power potential
[00:35:39] -!- Tom_itx [Tom_itx!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #emc
[00:35:43] <MuPie> I don't think anyone really needs to know all the tech unless they are designing a drive
[00:35:50] <robin_sz> no
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[00:35:57] <robin_sz> but, you do if you are desinging a machine
[00:36:06] <robin_sz> as you have to choose the gearing
[00:36:29] <MuPie> I thought about designing a drive, but it did not interest me enough
[00:36:36] -!- GabeW_ [GabeW_!63c374f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #emc
[00:36:41] <robin_sz> I did one once
[00:36:41] <MuPie> I got more interested in robots
[00:36:45] <robin_sz> hehe
[00:36:53] <robin_sz> did you indeed :)
[00:37:01] <robin_sz> can I sell you one?
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[00:37:16] <MuPie> only if its exceptionally cheap
[00:37:16] <GabeW_> Hello all, i come here in hopes of some quick help in a spindle issue i seem to be having. Anyone interested?
[00:37:34] <robin_sz> just ask, dont ask to ask :)
[00:38:08] <GabeW_> just trying to be polite i didn't want to interrupt conversations. :)
[00:38:11] <robin_sz> MuPie, 6 axis Comau Smart2, low hours (demo time only) fully working, £800?
[00:38:24] <MuPie> i got a scara for 35, a puma for 45 and another puma for 15
[00:38:31] <robin_sz> wow
[00:38:37] <robin_sz> OK, not that cheap
[00:38:57] <MuPie> they are only small and had no control boxes
[00:39:16] <robin_sz> this is a full 2m reach, 15kg head load thing, full control cab, totally mint
[00:39:24] <MuPie> I got one going, and lost interest and time to do the other two
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[00:40:10] <MuPie> yeah I think only the larger puma I have could possibly handle 15kg
[00:40:25] <robin_sz> im never quite sure what they mean by that
[00:40:26] <MuPie> but they are only hobby projects
[00:40:35] <robin_sz> this one can pick my weight up
[00:40:47] <robin_sz> as I tried hanging off it when it was moving :)
[00:40:48] <GabeW_> I have this Driver http://www.sei-automation.com/products/Brushless/BLDC-5015A.html, i tried using stepconfig to set it up, What seems to happen is i can get the the spindle to rotate in one direction. But when i load emc2, it starts the spindle really slow. I press spindle ccw and spindle turns, i am able to adjust speed. I press spindle cw spindle stops. I press spindle stop spindle turns really slow. I am really new to emc2, but
[00:41:02] <Connor> anyone have any idea what a good hall effect sensor would be for determining if a AC line had current running through it? I don't need anything fancy. just a simple one that I can put next to the HOT on a AC line to determine if current is flowing.
[00:41:02] <Connor> making a automatic switch to turn on vacuum if other device is running.. so dang many hall effects.. I have no idea what to look for.
[00:42:28] <robin_sz> Connor, there is only really one sensor to use for AC line measurement, google "LEM modules" .. the rest are junk
[00:42:29] <Tom_itx> http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/3503/
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[00:44:07] <Connor> robin_sz: Don't need to measure the current.. just detect it..
[00:44:39] -!- crazy_imp has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[00:44:48] <robin_sz> http://i.cmpnet.com/powermanagementdesignline/2008/02/LEM2.jpg
[00:44:50] -!- MuPie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[00:45:17] <moopy> I doubt the end actuator could handle 15kg, probably 4 or 5 at the most
[00:45:22] <robin_sz> then any hall IC,
[00:45:38] <robin_sz> moopy, on what? a puma?
[00:45:47] <moopy> yeah puma
[00:46:00] <robin_sz> yeah, that would be about right for a puma, 4 or 5kg
[00:46:07] <robin_sz> my thing is rated 15kg
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[00:46:18] <Tom_itx> Connor, this tells how to make one: http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/GizmoPicAxeCharger.asp
[00:46:26] <moopy> I think it is an ex university type machine
[00:46:31] <robin_sz> yep
[00:46:46] <moopy> I just found a youtube of the Comau Smart2, looks huge
[00:46:50] <robin_sz> they dont like stuff big enough to kill students )
[00:46:56] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/hall/Hall1.jpg
[00:46:59] <robin_sz> its 2.5m reach or soemthing
[00:47:05] <moopy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwiT4jY6WH4
[00:47:17] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/hall/HallSensor3.jpg
[00:47:36] <Connor> Tom_itx: what sensor did you use ?
[00:47:44] <robin_sz> moopy, yeah, exactly that
[00:47:50] <moopy> It would be a fun hobby project, but no way I have room or enough cash
[00:47:52] <Tom_itx> the one i linked
[00:48:02] <Tom_itx> only it's obsolete now, get a newer ver
[00:48:07] <Connor> A1302
[00:48:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/hall/Hall_Sch.png
[00:48:18] <Connor> Yea.. mouser doesn't have it... Need to place order from them.
[00:48:32] <robin_sz> moopy, that one is a welding bot, you can tell ny the extra high cab on top of the main control cabinet
[00:48:51] <Connor> making switch for vacuum.. need about a 5-7 second delay on the off...
[00:49:47] <robin_sz> moopy, Ihave one sitting in a store doing nothing, I keep trying to seel or loan it
[00:50:11] <robin_sz> I almost convinced Andy Pugh onhere to have it
[00:50:17] <robin_sz> but he chickened out :)
[00:50:24] <moopy> i think i have video of the small puma I fitted, I will look
[00:50:52] <robin_sz> Alex Joni is the one for bots ... his are scary
[00:51:19] <moopy> http://www.youtube.com/user/mungkie1#p/u/1/h-ePCfHmitk
[00:52:15] <moopy> I think i chatted with alex joni last year, when I was writing the stacked kines configurator
[00:52:45] <GabeW_> anybody?
[00:53:14] <moopy> I think the video is not worth watching until the end where the robot is
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[00:53:44] <robin_sz> GabeW_, so what signals is the spindle controller expecting?
[00:53:50] <robin_sz> direction and?
[00:54:15] <robin_sz> moopy, sure this is the right vid?
[00:54:31] <robin_sz> moopy, theres two girls .. and some baby oil?
[00:54:44] <robin_sz> oh wait, right, theres the robot
[00:55:03] <robin_sz> moopy, nice!
[00:55:22] <GabeW_> it has an enable, to turn spindle on(shorted to ground turns spindle on), it has a f/r-forword and reverse, to change directions -5v runs ccw, +5v runs clockwise. It also has a pwm imput.
[00:55:57] <GabeW_> i feel like enable is being shorted to ground as soon as the parport is enabled.
[00:56:29] <Connor> Crap. Digi Key doesn't have them in stock.
[00:56:33] <GabeW_> i have all my stepper motors working this is the last dang thing
[00:56:45] <robin_sz> I would start by making sure I could get the spindle to do what I woant by applyuing the right signals
[00:56:56] <robin_sz> using resistors to the 5V line
[00:57:09] <robin_sz> get emc and the parport out of the equation
[00:57:29] <robin_sz> when I was happy the spindle functioned as I hoped it did, I would wire to parpaort
[00:57:54] <GabeW_> can i use 5v off my power supply?
[00:58:01] <moopy> has anyone written a standard testing fault and error finding manual for emc?
[00:58:15] <robin_sz> I would probably bung some LEDs on the parport, before that, to make sure EMC was going to do what I hoped too
[00:58:23] <robin_sz> GabeW_, 1 sec, let me check docs
[00:58:33] <moopy> most of the stuff you need to do gabe is fairly standard procedure
[00:58:55] <moopy> I was going to suggest LEDS
[00:59:03] <robin_sz> GabeW_, the driver needs no resistors in series with 5V of drive
[00:59:31] <robin_sz> GabeW_, so use any 5V you can get your hands on easily, eg, the 0V and +5V on the disc drive plug
[00:59:44] <moopy> basically isolate different modules of the system and test them with the correct inputs
[00:59:50] * robin_sz nods
[01:00:00] <GabeW_> standard procedure? i don't think anything that goes driving a cnc or automated machine from a pc is standard procedure lol. Our cnc come with controllers and drivers, thats already work. Thats standard procedure!
[01:00:20] <robin_sz> GabeW_, also, how are you driving this? jusy conecting those pins direct to parport?
[01:00:34] <factor> What are thoes pieaces called that hold the axles? usually a round block with screws that tighten to the axel
[01:00:50] <GabeW_> no i have a power supply, i tested the motor using the pot feature of the driver its working properly.
[01:00:51] <Tom_itx> coupler
[01:01:01] <robin_sz> mmmm
[01:01:04] <factor> the ends of the axel
[01:01:09] <moopy> are the input levels correctly matched??
[01:01:12] <robin_sz> I would use the computers +5V line
[01:01:12] <factor> couple is two axels
[01:01:17] <Tom_itx> coupler
[01:01:26] <robin_sz> remember the parport is an open collector output
[01:01:28] <Tom_itx> flange
[01:01:40] <moopy> hub
[01:01:51] <robin_sz> so will sink OK, need to use the PC earth if using an external PSU
[01:01:54] <GabeW_> okay, i have a oscope handy also to test my ports. But i feel its a stupid error with wiring on my part, for all the other motors are working as expected.
[01:02:15] <robin_sz> I would test the spindle with plain old 5V and wires first
[01:02:19] <factor> oscopes area really useful to catch dirty signals.
[01:02:40] <robin_sz> then when happy, test with EMC and scope or meter the signals
[01:02:45] <GabeW_> ya the oscope was the best purchase i have made in electronics... pricey but worth it
[01:02:58] <robin_sz> you need to pull 10ma probably through each opto isolator
[01:03:07] <factor> I had bought mine decades ago for like 20 bucks
[01:03:12] <robin_sz> yep
[01:03:13] <factor> maybe 50 been a while
[01:03:19] <factor> 20mhz
[01:03:26] <robin_sz> I like Tektronix for benchwork
[01:03:32] <robin_sz> and Hameg for shop work
[01:03:40] <factor> was at my electronics class when a guy pulled up wanting to sell his electronic stuff
[01:03:51] <moopy> I like cheap chinese
[01:03:54] <factor> Elenco is what mine is
[01:03:59] <factor> heh
[01:03:59] <moopy> but only cause its cheap
[01:04:10] <robin_sz> got a tek 2445B for the bench, love it!
[01:04:41] <robin_sz> damn 2am
[01:04:45] <GabeW_> uni-t 81b interfaces with the computer using usb
[01:04:48] <moopy> I tried getting a hameg on ebay, but they seem to go for more than a new chinese scope
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[01:06:48] <factor> flange block is the name of it, thanks
[01:08:00] <factor> or the smaller version of it was the jesus clip.
[01:08:23] <factor> when you pry them off and fly somewhere you usually hear "JESUS!"
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[01:08:42] <factor> c clips I think the name of them are
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[01:11:40] <Connor> Tom_itx: Having hard time finding the A1302
[01:20:44] <cpresser> Connor: allegro ships samples :)
[01:20:53] <cpresser> at least they did a few years ago.
[01:21:28] <GabeW_> how come when i enable spindle on under pinouts of stepconfig, allong with a ccw, cw, and pwm it comes up with an error that spindle motion on already exist in hal?
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[01:29:32] <factor> using blender as my model designer. Although I have used it before , actually using it with bolts positions
[01:29:56] <factor> to make sure I dont end up with bolts too close and at different angles.
[01:30:13] <factor> Will do one of those animation builds
[01:30:25] <factor> to show you how to put it together.
[01:30:38] <factor> cutaway diagram or what have you.
[01:31:22] <factor> many times I have just thrown a 3d model to gether and ran out and tried to make it, only to end up adding a lot of hacks to get it to actually work
[01:32:13] <factor> looked at a lot of other CNCs this time as well.
[01:34:44] <factor> noting this , because just found and fixed some parts that would have been a pain if I went ahead and made it.
[01:36:59] <factor> also built it as a paper model first , that was really cool and worked well.
[01:37:09] <factor> easy to chop and rearrange
[01:37:23] <factor> looked on the net for basic polygons paper parts.
[01:37:32] <factor> and modified them from that.
[01:38:12] <factor> actually helped out a lot.
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[01:41:57] <robin_sz> GabeW_, you need to test the spindle with plain old 5V before worrying about PWM
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[01:42:06] <GabeW_> i did
[01:42:08] <GabeW_> i figured it out
[01:42:11] <robin_sz> OK
[01:42:32] <robin_sz> now, re the PWM ... you will need a R C low pass filter
[01:43:12] <robin_sz> to convert the PWM signal into an analogue voltage to feed to the speed control
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[01:44:12] <robin_sz> feeding a PWM signal into a sense input that may well be being sampled at a different frequency could result in all sorts of oddness
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[01:45:36] <GabeW_> according to the driver it can accept 0-5v or a pwm at 1khz sampling rate
[01:49:34] <robin_sz> fair enough
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[02:29:50] <ktchk> Hi KimK
[02:30:13] <KimK> Hi ktchk, What's up?
[02:30:47] <ktchk> How about put the zh_HK to 2.4.6?
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[02:33:17] <KimK> Ah, not yet, I think. I had to pull them back for a while. They (or at least one) was stopping my 2.5 build due to "missing msgstr", I think it said. I know you were working on all that, so I decided to just wait until you had everything sorted out.
[02:34:08] <ktchk> OH I have an other one that is fix that I compile ok.
[02:34:20] <KimK> Apparently there can be no missing strings? I was going to look at one of the other existing files, but I haven't had time yet.
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[02:37:02] <KimK> ktchk: If you have newer files with no missing strings, I would be happy to try again.
[02:37:13] <ktchk> KimK: ok i just email it to you and at your convienience put it into 2.4.6
[02:38:54] <KimK> I'm sure I can get it into 2.5.0 and 2.4.7 and master. But 2.4.6 is already out, so I'll have to ask for advice from the experts first on that one. Maybe, maybe not.
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[02:40:12] <KimK> ktchk: You never said how you wanted to be credited?
[02:41:14] <KimK> I have just received the HK file. Was the TW file OK, I never checked?
[02:43:15] <ktchk> kimk:when will the 2.4.7 out in ubuntu? credit? just for translation I am not in software business, no needed.
[02:43:46] <ktchk> For zh_TW just rename it the content will be same.
[02:46:50] <KimK> We don't have a specific release date for 2.4.7, the only schedule we have is "as soon as we can". Same for 2.5.0. OK, I will set both files to the same content.
[02:47:52] <KimK> And I can understand why you might want to be anonymous, so if that's what you want, that's fine.
[02:48:08] <ktchk> kimk: I just have to know the timing so that my friends can start update for chinese fonts.
[02:49:20] <KimK> ktchk: OK. I will keep you posted as progress continues on all these things.
[02:49:39] <ktchk> thanks
[02:50:11] <KimK> Thank *you* for the files.
[02:51:06] <ktchk> you are wellcome keep up good works on emc
[02:51:42] <ktchk> bye I have to go.
[02:51:56] <KimK> Bye, come back anytime and visit us.
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[08:07:39] <mazafaka> Finally changing my job from manual milling machine to somewhat computer-operated. Will be learning it, and drilling all this time with a little bit less wage.
[08:10:39] <mazafaka> It has taken one and half a week to leave previous job and get the documents and official stuff for this work. I'm worried a bit about what if they say "Where had you been going all this time?"
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[13:08:17] <Farthen> does emc have support for tool length measurement devices?
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[13:21:39] <elmo40> Farthen: there is probe support
[13:22:00] <Farthen> ah, that's what they are called
[13:22:02] <elmo40> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ClassicLadderExamples#Single_button_probe_touchoff
[13:22:15] <Farthen> thanks a lot :)
[13:22:48] <elmo40> anytime
[13:23:05] <elmo40> mazafaka: I too am changing jobs. start a new one next month.
[13:23:32] <elmo40> less on the floor and more in the office (programing) :) I hope it works out.
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[13:44:38] * JT-Shop is going to the River Ridge Winery today :)
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[13:52:36] <mazafaka> Does your employer know about it? Does your new employer wait for you on your new job? I probably could start working for them in the middle of last week. And I only go on the lant tomorrow morning.
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[14:02:01] <elmo40> I gave my current employer 2.5 weeks notice
[14:02:09] <elmo40> this Wednesday is my last day
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[14:03:16] <JT-Shop> I'm self employed...
[14:03:36] <ziyadb> is there an EMC storage channel?
[14:03:49] <ziyadb> even if not EMC. Just storage focused.
[14:05:20] <JT-Shop> what do you mean by storage channel?
[14:05:21] <Spida> not here
[14:06:01] <Spida> JT-Shop: ziyadb is talking about http://www.emc.com/
[14:06:15] <JT-Shop> ah
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[14:20:55] <Tom_itx> better self employed than unemployed but not by alot
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[14:23:56] <jthornton> LOL
[14:25:57] <Loetmichel> yeah, in germany we have a word: "selbststndig => selbst und stndig arbeiten!" (self employed => work yourself and always)
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[15:44:06] <ktchk> psha: are you familia to translation?
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[15:55:38] <mazafaka> I am familiar with English and Russian.
[15:56:44] <elmo40> is there a wiki page to get EMC working on a Mac?
[15:57:02] <elmo40> or are there no rtai kernels for Mac hardware?
[15:57:39] <Loetmichel> elmo40: the mac hardware is intel?
[15:57:52] <elmo40> sadly, no ;)
[15:58:02] <Loetmichel> then: problem ;-)
[15:58:08] <elmo40> no doubt
[15:58:38] <Loetmichel> and with intel hardware: no LPT port ;-)
[15:58:54] <Loetmichel> (IIRC)
[15:59:10] <mazafaka> no rtai kernel means simulator mode
[15:59:42] <elmo40> on the main page:
[15:59:43] <elmo40> RTAI supports several architectures:
[15:59:43] <elmo40> x86 (with and without FPU and TSC) x86_64 PowerPC ARM (StrongARM; ARM7: clps711x-family, Cirrus Logic EP7xxx, CS89712, PXA25x) m68k (supporting both MMU and NOMMU cpus)
[15:59:45] <mhaberler> I use a Mac, and develop on it - I run virtualbox and EMC/Linux inside
[15:59:50] <mhaberler> simulator only
[16:00:27] <elmo40> it says powerpc on rtai.org.
[16:00:51] <elmo40> but yes, a lack of parport is an issue :P
[16:01:02] <elmo40> can't use firewire, eh? LOL
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[16:48:14] <ktchk> mazafaka: I am doing translation from english to chinese. Can you translate the "world" and "joint"?
[16:52:24] <KimK> ktchk: Hi, welcome back. I can't help with Chinese, but I can talk about it in English if that will help?
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[16:53:02] <ktchk> KImK: the meaning of "world" and "loint
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[16:54:12] <ktchk> "joint" I know but the translation to chinese does not have the same meaning world is world not thing pointing to the coordination system
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[16:55:41] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[16:56:04] <IchGuckLive> Germany leads in soccer WorldCup 2011 vs Kanada
[16:56:53] <ktchk> KimK: at the moment I kept the english words , but I want to know how the others translat it.
[16:56:58] <KimK> ktchk: "World" refers to the world coordinate system, the real XYZABCUVW coordinates that the gcode is laid out in. "Joint" refers to the individual movable parts of a machine, like a robot's "waist" joint, "shoulder" joint, "wrist" joint, etc.
[17:01:23] <KimK> In machines with "trivial" kinematics, joints exactly match axes, so there is no difference between joints and axes. In machines like robots, with "waists", "shoulders", "elbows", "wrists", etc. you can switch modes to jog each joint individually, without regard to what that does to the real-world coordinates.
[17:03:42] <mazafaka> I do not know these words in Chinese.
[17:04:15] <mazafaka> ktchk: ask at ##English - there are many good folks who learn English, some of them live or lived in China
[17:04:21] <ktchk> mazafaka: how do you translate them to rusian?
[17:06:20] <mazafaka> joint is a coupling or hinge (шарнир), world coordinate means normal XYZ coordinate, or some "global" coordinate - in contrast to some local coordinates.
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[17:10:07] <ktchk> mazafaka: Is it simular to "waist" or "knuckle"
[17:10:14] <mazafaka> joint = шарнир or сочленение, world coordinates = absolute coordinates = абсолютные координаты
[17:11:23] <mazafaka> joint = joint; connection; junction
[17:13:39] <mazafaka> "Joint" means some mechanical structure which makes it possible for two or more parts to rotate or move along each other.
[17:14:21] <ktchk> mazafaka: knuckle how do you think?
[17:14:28] <mazafaka> Oh, yeah, wait. Scientifically, "joint" = degree of freedom
[17:14:42] <KimK> ktchk: Also, "world" has a connotation of all the joints cooperating to perform some desired programmed motion. "Joint" has a connotation of individual pieces moving separately, one-at-at-a-time, without working together.
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[17:16:38] <KimK> How about "swivel"? It's not as good as "joint", though.
[17:17:15] <mazafaka> ktchk: "joint" means degree of freedom and either particuclar mechanical connection or joining
[17:18:50] <ktchk> Kimk:still thinking if i put the translation into the chinese .po I have to explain all those you mentioned ......
[17:18:52] <mazafaka> ktchk: In English, "joint" is joint and it may have several meanings. In Chinese, "joint" will refer to some certain engineering term.
[17:20:29] <KimK> Let's go down the street to this joint that has some good food.
[17:20:54] <mazafaka> In English, you do not need to further explain what the joint in CAM is. In Chinese, for the translation to be adequate, you need certain techinal term, which meaning is as wide as "joint" on English.
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[17:22:43] <ktchk> mazafaka: joint in chinese is a connection means "electrical" "string" "glue things togather" too common
[17:23:02] <KimK> ktchk: If mazafaka's ##English suggestion doesn't help you, maybe you can look up some Chinese robotics literature and see how they write it?
[17:23:39] <ktchk> KImk: that is what I want to do CAM experts
[17:24:00] <archivist_emc> ktchk, joint is also used like that in english, not uncommon for a word to have multiple meanins
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[17:24:06] <archivist_emc> meanings
[17:25:13] <ktchk> archivist_emc: Then you need a book to explain the meaning of joints in CAM condition
[17:25:16] <archivist_emc> add a definition of the use of the word joint to clarify
[17:25:46] <KimK> Yes, in English we talk of gluing two pieces of wood together as a "joint". It doesn't move though, lol.
[17:26:13] <archivist_emc> sure some joins move/slide
[17:26:57] <KimK> Well, not the parts that are glued together, I mean, lol.
[17:27:10] <archivist_emc> :)
[17:27:24] <ktchk> It is like a juntion
[17:27:34] <KimK> Yes, exactly.
[17:27:44] <toastyde1th> joint, noun - A point at which parts of an artificial structure are joined.
[17:28:05] <KimK> s/juntion/junction/
[17:28:30] <ktchk> ok next week I will put up some questions in chinese sites see if I can get some response in chinese
[17:28:30] <toastyde1th> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joint
[17:29:14] <archivist_emc> also the contact area/axis is known as a "mate"
[17:29:20] <ktchk> sorry I am asking translate to chinese
[17:29:48] <KimK> ktchk: No problem, I look forward to receiving your improved translation, thanks very much for all your hard work.
[17:30:23] <archivist_emc> we know, but us english speakers can only give word definitions/concepts so you can choose the best word
[17:30:44] <mazafaka> ktchk: Then there is another word in Chinese for our meaning.
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[17:32:40] <ktchk> no so I only cut the line and put it into google translater and pick the on close to CAM needed
[17:34:36] <mazafaka> There are many so-so translations all around the world, don't get it too serious. Technicians will have understood.
[17:34:43] <ktchk> mazafaka: that is the one come back fro google translater "joints" make me uncertain
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[17:35:54] <ktchk> mazafaka: that is why at the moment i kept them in english.
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[17:36:49] <KimK> For "joints", I think if you pick a word that implies "movable part" or "one of the parts that moves", that should be OK.
[17:36:59] <mazafaka> ktchk: You need a proper Chinese word for it. Try to find it somewhere.
[17:37:30] <ktchk> That will b thw work of next week
[17:37:57] <KimK> ktchk: OK, great. Thanks again for working on it.
[17:38:14] <mazafaka> joints may refer to the degrees of freedom. There should be a proper term.
[17:39:02] <ktchk> degrees of freedom is a phase not a word
[17:41:27] <ktchk> It is late in my area i have to get some sleep bye
[17:41:29] <KimK> s/phase/phrase/ (Sorry, it seems that I can't stop editing, lol!)
[17:41:35] <KimK> Bye
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[17:43:01] <KimK> Thanks, mazafaka , archivist_emc , toastyde1th
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[17:45:55] <mazafaka> KimK I was involved in translations earlier. Hard to find proper word. Is it really needed?
[17:46:39] <archivist_emc> depends on local use I think
[17:46:44] <mazafaka> You may add a tag in the text, then edit this part of the text when you will become familiar with the terminology.
[17:46:46] <IchGuckLive> why do you need trunslation if all stuff is in eglish good readable ?
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[17:47:09] <mazafaka> is
[17:47:11] <mazafaka> C
[17:47:16] <KimK> Well, I suppose if a person is going to do a job it should be done right. So it's a good thing that he's working on it, I think.
[17:47:19] <mazafaka> IchGuckLive: that's it
[17:47:48] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:48:43] <mazafaka> he also need to do the rest of the translation, he can become acquainted with this word later just by chance, and current non-sleeping is absolutely useless.
[17:48:54] <IchGuckLive> oh are you discussing C to Python stuff ?
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[17:49:33] <mazafaka> IchGuckLive: English to Chinese translation on a CAM-related subject.
[17:50:03] <KimK> IchGuckLive: A fellow is working on some additional Chinese translation files for EMC2.
[17:50:24] <mazafaka> "subject matter"... "We need a subject matter expert, and who're YOU? >: It still sounds in my mind... :(
[17:50:38] <IchGuckLive> oh chineese only use the Broken Mach3 Code the Custom Service here checks all deleveries for the full version of this
[17:51:30] <archivist_emc> when they see translated EMC docs they may change
[17:51:36] <KimK> IchGuckLive: I don't understand, could you explain further?
[17:52:43] <IchGuckLive> Arcsoft has the Copyright for the Full all Axis Version thats is 170Dollar but all chineese drivers are shipt with the full cracked version
[17:53:32] <KimK> Ah, I see. So customs is watching for the cracked version?
[17:54:39] <IchGuckLive> yes in Germany im ordert 2Times to open the Box
[17:54:58] <IchGuckLive> but i now this so i ask for the trial CD
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[17:55:37] <KimK> mazafaka: Re: "subject matter... It still sounds in my mind", did you have a bad experience about this?
[17:56:38] <IchGuckLive> no it is on the nown issues here as it says on the sellers homepage
[17:57:04] <IchGuckLive> i do not use mach3 i use emc for python scriot reaseon
[17:57:56] <KimK> IchGuckLive: If there were German manuals for EMC2, would you be willing to review them?
[17:58:21] <IchGuckLive> no
[17:58:49] <KimK> OK.
[17:58:50] <IchGuckLive> KimK: the trunslacion is normaly the most bugy docu you can read
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[17:59:15] <IchGuckLive> KimK -> http://stores.ebay.de/BestChoose702?_rdc=1
[17:59:36] <IchGuckLive> the bestchoose702 has some nice parts
[18:00:50] <IchGuckLive> 3AxisDriver 3AxisDisplay and handheld for 70Dollars
[18:02:02] <IchGuckLive> i think in the USA the shop is not at thie same products
[18:02:35] <IchGuckLive> need to go By
[18:02:42] <KimK> Bye
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[18:11:24] <mazafaka> KimK I hadn't got any money for translations, only several licenses for some software.
[18:11:43] <skunkworks> flood coolant is nice!
[18:12:04] <mazafaka> Does it cools the flood?
[18:12:12] <mazafaka> :0
[18:12:18] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, what type of machine is it on?
[18:12:25] <Tom_itx> fully enclosed or open?
[18:14:09] * KimK hears the sound of a picture coming closer...
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[18:17:34] <archivist_emc> should be a motion picture !
[18:19:11] <mazafaka> If yes then surely not :(
[18:20:37] <Tom_itx> there's a guy in #avr that lives in china that might be able to help with some translation
[18:20:57] <Tom_itx> wormfood, but he's not there right now
[18:21:10] <Tom_itx> i'm sure he wouldn't mind helping
[18:21:39] <archivist_emc> I remember wormfood from #mysql too
[18:24:33] <mazafaka> wormfood also appearsin ##English
[18:25:02] <mazafaka> I always thought of him as WarmFood
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[18:28:29] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: open
[18:28:32] <skunkworks> so far
[18:30:00] <Tom_itx> i'd like to set up a mist system i think
[18:30:08] <Tom_itx> with water based coolant
[18:30:39] <Tom_itx> i doubt you can get that small quantity of water based though
[18:31:01] <skunkworks> We got it by the gallon a few years ago
[18:31:08] <skunkworks> using up the last of it
[18:31:11] <Tom_itx> this is on a sherline
[18:31:13] <Tom_itx> :)
[18:31:32] <Tom_itx> i hope i can eventually get some type of tabletop
[18:31:46] <Tom_itx> i miss working on the big ones
[18:32:13] <skunkworks> this has only 38",36",24" travel ;)
[18:32:27] <Tom_itx> that's not bad
[18:32:43] <Tom_itx> 24 Z ?
[18:33:02] <skunkworks> yes
[18:33:06] <skunkworks> horizontal
[18:33:11] <skunkworks> and the table rotates
[18:33:16] <Tom_itx> ah
[18:33:18] <Tom_itx> ahh
[18:33:33] <skunkworks> I am sure you have seen videos... I spew them on here all the time
[18:33:41] <Tom_itx> i'm sure
[18:33:55] <Tom_itx> i can't keep track of who has what
[18:34:33] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
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[18:35:03] <skunkworks> you just need the right tin in the right location - and most of the coolant drains back ;)
[18:35:12] <skunkworks> wonder how the fest is going
[18:35:32] <Tom_itx> where?
[18:35:49] <Tom_itx> yeah i've seen that one
[18:35:56] <skunkworks> michigan
[18:36:15] <Tom_itx> i'm waiting for them to come back to the dude's shop here
[18:36:18] <skunkworks> ann arbor
[18:36:28] <skunkworks> wichita?
[18:36:30] <Tom_itx> i forget his name
[18:36:31] <Tom_itx> yes
[18:36:44] <Tom_itx> his shop is only a mile or two from me
[18:36:49] <skunkworks> stuarts shop - yes - that isn't quite as far for me
[18:37:10] <Tom_itx> he doesn't get on here does he?
[18:37:23] <skunkworks> not often. he is on the mailing list though
[18:38:16] <Tom_itx> how old is that machine? late 60 - early 70's?
[18:38:51] <skunkworks> it was delivered in 68 to a local company
[18:38:59] <skunkworks> the prints are dated 62+
[18:39:01] <Tom_itx> heh, good guess
[18:39:30] <Tom_itx> did you have trouble getting prints?
[18:40:21] <Tom_itx> there used to be a boeing surplus here that had stuff from time to time
[18:40:37] <skunkworks> well - it came with quite a few of the manual.. we where able to get an explotion manual right from whoever bought out k&t - but that was quite a few years ago.
[18:40:41] <Tom_itx> but the bulk of boeing left a couple years back
[18:41:06] <Tom_itx> they sold the factory to 'Spirit'
[18:42:42] <skunkworks> I think we got them late 80's and got one running in about 1990 using the original control
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[18:43:19] <Tom_itx> are you in the auto industry?
[18:44:33] <Tom_itx> i'd feel backwards working on a HMC
[18:44:34] <skunkworks> heh - no. we are a hobby shop.
[18:44:39] <Tom_itx> oh
[18:45:16] <archivist_emc> hobbies dont have to be small :)
[18:45:36] <Tom_itx> no but the support buildings aren't cheap
[18:46:01] <skunkworks> archivist_emc: exactly. some people have boats..
[18:46:27] <Tom_itx> have you been to stuart's shop?
[18:46:34] <skunkworks> yes - 2 years ago
[18:46:38] <Tom_itx> cool
[18:46:47] <skunkworks> or whenever the first get-together was.
[18:47:15] <Tom_itx> there's alot of cnc shops in that area but i wasn't aware of his
[18:47:54] <Tom_itx> i was in one once where security followed you around
[18:48:13] <Tom_itx> they were making F117 parts
[18:49:02] <Tom_itx> i think we went over to check out some software they were using or something
[18:50:14] <skunkworks> neat
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[18:51:24] <Tom_itx> parts is parts
[18:56:13] <elmo40> ya, parts is parts.
[18:56:47] <elmo40> I make Waterbomber parts, LearJet parts, JSF parts...
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[19:18:16] <skunkworks> cradek: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mori_mills/130078-mori_mvjr_mx2_control_trouble.html :)
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[19:34:24] <skunkworks> andypugh: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=48592
[19:37:38] <andypugh> Sounds like he is doing it the hard way. ie, not using EMC2
[19:39:48] <andypugh> The guy talking about Rack Hobs is talking out of the wrong Orifice.
[19:41:21] <skunkworks> heh
[19:41:45] <andypugh> As is JS
[19:42:11] <andypugh> Wrong angle will _not_ give a helix unless you also advance the timing to sui
[19:42:11] <skunkworks> looks like he kinda got it straitened out in the end.
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[19:48:24] <andypugh> Clamping the hob to the dovetails is an interesting idea.
[19:49:04] <skunkworks> looks solid
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[19:53:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping
[19:53:56] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, ayr
[19:53:58] <SWPadnos> err
[19:54:00] <SWPadnos> aye
[19:54:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I found you a cigar/airplane adapter
[19:54:31] <SWPadnos> oh - cool
[19:54:38] <SWPadnos> which one?
[19:54:54] <Jymmm> let me get the link again
[19:55:23] <Tom_itx> anyone know where there's a model for a DB25 cutout?
[19:55:36] <Tom_itx> chassis punchout
[19:56:19] <mrsunshine_> Tom_itx, model or just measurments? :)
[19:56:23] <SWPadnos> you mean the outline?
[19:56:28] <Tom_itx> just measurements
[19:56:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, these guys have a lifetime warranty on their ram, not sure about their other products. They are here locally (Santa Clara), you could call their 800 number if you have questions... http://www.oempcworld.com/OEMPCworld-com/AA.html
[19:56:41] <SWPadnos> go to digikey, select a DB25 connector, and download the datasheet
[19:56:49] <SWPadnos> it should have the recommended panel cutout
[19:56:55] <Tom_itx> oh i'm sure :D
[19:57:10] <Jymmm> cradek has a db25 files dxf gcode
[19:57:11] <Tom_itx> i was having a lazy moment
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[19:58:20] <SWPadnos> images only, but cool: http://purcellbrackets.com/dbcutouts.asp
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[19:59:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: At least those are bigger than the DX 'fire waiting to happen' ones
[19:59:49] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.goelectronic.com/HI-CAPACITY+AA-C15RP.html
[19:59:52] <SWPadnos> oh - DealExtreme
[20:00:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I googled the PN and found that last link
[20:00:24] <SWPadnos> ah
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[20:00:49] <Jymmm> http://www.goelectronic.com/HI-CAPACITY_AUTO_AIR_ADAPTERS.html
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[20:01:08] <Jymmm> seems cheaper too, but never dealt with them before
[20:02:43] <Tom_itx> db25A must be female
[20:02:49] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'll be damn... http://www.hi-capacity.com/compguide/
[20:02:56] <Tom_itx> S is bigger
[20:03:28] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, wow. that's great
[20:03:39] <SWPadnos> they even have my Asus laptop in their database
[20:04:07] <SWPadnos> not that you can click on the products that come up from the search ...
[20:04:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: They sell on newegg so they say
[20:04:38] <SWPadnos> interesting
[20:05:46] <SWPadnos> apparently the brand name is "NBattery-Biz" on NewEgg
[20:05:49] <SWPadnos> -N
[20:06:04] <Jymmm> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834993041
[20:06:23] <SWPadnos> AC only though, no auto/air
[20:06:46] <Jymmm> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834993347
[20:06:55] <Jymmm> auto/air/ac
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[20:07:26] <andypugh> Dell make a nice auto/air/ac adapter.
[20:07:36] <andypugh> (Though it only works with Dell)
[20:08:41] <andypugh> Same price as the newegg one, but with much better reviews. http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=310-8814&baynote_bnrank=1&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch
[20:09:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, I'll let you do your shopping. Let me know what you find out =)
[20:09:39] <SWPadnos> heh. thatnks for the pointers
[20:09:41] <SWPadnos> err
[20:09:43] <SWPadnos> you know
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[20:10:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: np. if you find one at a reasonable price for thinkpad/idea pad let me know
[20:10:26] <SWPadnos> ok, will do
[20:10:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I need at least 16.0VDC
[20:10:51] <SWPadnos> 16-19 or something?
[20:10:52] <Jymmm> 19V better
[20:10:55] <Jymmm> yeah
[20:10:57] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:11:20] <Jymmm> 15.4 volts will power, but not charge.
[20:11:37] <Jymmm> ask me how I know this for sure =)
[20:11:44] <ds3> is this on a Dell?
[20:11:49] <SWPadnos> I dimly remember a conversation ...
[20:11:53] <SWPadnos> Thinkpad
[20:12:11] <ds3> the thinkpad will charge with just the right voltage?
[20:12:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 20VDC@2A is the AC brick ratings
[20:12:25] <ds3> Newer Dell's won't
[20:12:44] <SWPadnos> that's it? weird, that sounds pretty low
[20:12:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: it's a netbook
[20:12:54] <SWPadnos> even my Asus, which sips power, has a 65W adapter
[20:13:01] <SWPadnos> sure
[20:13:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I can power it at 12VDC actually, just won't charge though
[20:13:37] <SWPadnos> aure
[20:13:39] <SWPadnos> sure
[20:14:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It's nice for road trips.... 10" GPS =)
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[20:16:03] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834994229
[20:16:08] <Jymmm> WTH doesn't ups deliver 24/7 for free damnit!
[20:16:36] <Jymmm> only two voltages?
[20:17:01] <SWPadnos> the other ones (Hi-Capacity or Battery Biz) didn't seem to have an adjustment
[20:17:02] <Roguish> hello all. gotta a good new error. any clues out there?
[20:17:04] <Roguish> [ 47.070161] hm2: loading Mesa HostMot2 driver version 0.15
[20:17:06] <Roguish> [ 47.088215] hm2_pci: loading Mesa AnyIO HostMot2 driver version 0.6
[20:17:06] <SWPadnos> just a 2V range
[20:17:07] <Roguish> [ 47.088272] hm2_pci: discovered 5i20 at 0000:04:00.0
[20:17:09] <Roguish> [ 47.088394] hm2_5i20.0: firmware: requesting hm2/5i20/SVST8_4.BIT
[20:17:10] <Roguish> [ 47.100530] hm2_5i20.0: FPGA did not reset: /INIT = 1, DONE = 1
[20:17:12] <Roguish> [ 47.100549] hm2/hm2_5i20.0: failed to reset fpga, aborting hm2_register
[20:17:13] <Roguish> [ 47.100558] hm2_5i20.0: board fails HM2 registration
[20:17:20] <Jymmm> Roguish: PASTEBIN
[20:17:21] <Jymmm> Roguish: PASTEBIN
[20:17:22] <Jymmm> Roguish: PASTEBIN
[20:17:30] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, pastebin
[20:17:38] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:17:39] <Jymmm> No, I'm yelling
[20:17:48] <SWPadnos> yeas. my ears hurt now
[20:18:05] <Roguish> ok. sorry. never seen this 'failed to reset....'
[20:18:27] <SWPadnos> huh. that Duracell one actually looks great. only 3/4 pound even, which would be nice
[20:18:34] <Roguish> '....did not reset.....'
[20:18:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: and removable cords too
[20:18:43] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:19:01] <SWPadnos> Roguish, any changes to the system or the config?
[20:19:33] <Roguish> just the config. but only minor tuning parameters.
[20:20:02] <SWPadnos> ok. try loading the 5i20 sample config (with the machine powered down)
[20:20:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://www.duracellpower.com/adapters/laptop-adapters/acdc-laptop-adapter.aspx
[20:20:33] <Roguish> i've rebooted, removed the ribbon cables and rebooted, and tried a sample config. same error.
[20:20:53] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: PSD Tech Specs http://www.duracellpower.com/documents/tech-specs/laptop-acdc-adapter.pdf
[20:20:57] <Jymmm> PDF
[20:21:28] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. if you haven't updated the software or the FPGA bitfiles, then I'd suspect that the card is bad
[20:21:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: HAHAHAHA, look at the footer in the PDF
[20:23:03] <SWPadnos> one other thing to try though - shut down the computer and unplug it (or turn it off at the ATX power supply), to make sure that standby power isn't keeping anything half-powered
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[20:23:37] <SWPadnos> leave it off for a few minutes, or, while it's unplugged, press the power button (the one you usually use to turn the PC on and off)
[20:23:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:23:57] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, that is funny
[20:26:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: but duracell will easily honor their warranty being the difference
[20:26:42] <SWPadnos> yeah. I noticed the 3-year warrantee
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[20:29:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Heh, top left corner... http://www.duracelldirect.com/part_dracdc5101.aspx
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[20:31:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Scroll down to the reviews... http://www.amazon.com/DURACELL-Universal-Adapter-Interchangeable-DRACDC5101/product-reviews/B003ICXALS/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
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[20:35:50] <robin_sz> ahh andypugh, how did the sailing go
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[20:39:46] <andypugh> Pretty good. I
[20:40:01] <andypugh> 10th in class. 512th overall.
[20:40:08] <andypugh> (out of 1905)
[20:40:55] <andypugh> Bit windy. The VHF was frantic, with 5 MoB, 2 dismastings, 3 flipped trimarans, 2 medivacs..
[20:41:26] <robin_sz> sounds .. exciting
[20:41:33] <robin_sz> 2 demastings?
[20:41:58] <robin_sz> not good really
[20:43:06] <andypugh> Oh, and three rudder failures (possibly related to the 15' log bobbing about in the Needles Channel
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[20:43:28] <andypugh> Flipped trimarans are quite bad too. They don't come back without a crane...
[20:43:56] <tom3p> congrats on the class
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[20:44:58] <robin_sz> this was the morgan cup?
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[20:59:28] <andypugh> Yes. (Round the Island Race)
[21:00:53] <andypugh> I think a lot of the folk out there have the impression that to go fast you put up all the sail you can, and lean right over.
[21:01:50] <jdhNC> or crank up the diesels
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[21:02:47] <jdhNC> Andy: you are a materials science guy?
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[21:05:54] <andypugh> I have been, yes
[21:06:49] <jdhNC> my son just got back from a week long materials science engineering camp at NC State Uni, looked like fun.
[21:07:10] <andypugh> It's much undeer-appreciated
[21:08:31] <jdhNC> they got to play with a transmission electron microscope, liquid N2, gold nano-particles, got to break lots of stuff
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[21:14:09] <tom3p> halscope shows me a input.0.abs-z-position at .058nnn when at rest,
[21:14:11] <tom3p> i use the input.0.abs-z-offset to compensate, but what is a unit? i had to use "140" !
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[21:20:22] <andypugh> Yeah, I like TEMs. I used to use one rather a lot. SEMs show nice pictures, but TEM does more science.
[21:23:04] <jdhNC> he didn't come home too excited about materials science
[21:23:20] <jdhNC> but, he really didn't want to go at all, and did end up having a good time
[21:32:05] <tom3p> crap, using offset clips the range (max when nulled is 0.90196 , should be 1.0 , all analog joy inputs to hal are +/- 1 )
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[21:36:50] <SWPadnos> tom3p, what is that input.x from? (ie, what component makes that pin)
[21:37:27] <robin_sz> andypugh, yeah, it takes people a while to reallise the heeled over is not fast
[21:37:46] <tom3p> Logitech joypad used to fake a discharge gap on laptop hal_input input.0.abs-z-position
[21:37:53] <tom3p> SWPadnos, ^^^
[21:37:57] <SWPadnos> ah
[21:38:10] <SWPadnos> thanks, I was wondering what the heck that would be :)
[21:38:28] <robin_sz> andypugh, most good yacht helmsmen cut their teeth on dinghys, you learn an awful lot from dinghy sailing
[21:38:35] <andypugh> It feels exciting, but yeah, the boat works better in the water.
[21:39:01] <robin_sz> yep, and presents more sail to the wind
[21:39:10] <andypugh> I like the Folk Boats though, very appealing.
[21:39:20] <robin_sz> ah yes, the swedish thing
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[21:39:28] <robin_sz> seen a lot of those in the Aaland
[21:39:56] <tom3p> isnt the big downwind sail a jeroboam?
[21:40:02] <robin_sz> no
[21:40:04] <robin_sz> :)
[21:40:30] <andypugh> That's what you drink from when sailing downwind.
[21:40:31] <robin_sz> Genoa, spinnaker etc
[21:40:58] <mrsunshine_> hell yeah =) Tried out some scraping today =) tho i think i need to get the work a bit higher, very hard on the back =)
[21:41:11] <robin_sz> we have been crtisized in the past by fellow racers for the quatity of donwind beer seen being loaded onto the boat :)
[21:42:15] <andypugh> Well, it will slow you down.
[21:42:24] <mrsunshine_> tho i do not get the hang of where the edge is on the scraper :/
[21:42:29] <mrsunshine_> i scrape like everywhere =)
[21:42:46] <andypugh> What shape scraper?
[21:42:52] <mrsunshine_> what shape ?
[21:43:05] <andypugh> Aye, what is the shape of your scraper?
[21:43:19] <mrsunshine_> its a rectangular block, like 4mm thick and 20 or something wide, and its ground with a big radius on the edge with a small angle of "relieaf"
[21:43:33] <robin_sz> andypugh, technically, yes .. but imagine life without a downwind beer?
[21:44:22] <mrsunshine_> http://shop.otdtools.se/Shop/Image/Article/61420_jpg72og_Thumb.jpg
[21:45:27] <andypugh> OK, that looks about right. Interesting that none of the ones that google images shows for "engineer's scraper" is quite right.
[21:46:05] <mrsunshine_> tho i think i could grind it down to be thinner in the edge to see a little more what im doing :P
[21:46:08] <andypugh> The only ones I have used are the ones my dad made from old fils during his apprenticeship (as a machine fitter)
[21:46:45] <andypugh> It shouldn't actually have any relief, it should be completely square on the edge. You can use either side.
[21:46:56] <andypugh> And you sharpen it on the end.
[21:47:22] <andypugh> But the large radius is what is missong from all the ones I can find on the internet so far.
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[21:49:13] <mrsunshine_> trying to flatten an aluminium block atm, goes quite good tho i can understand what they mean with that it takes time :P
[21:49:29] <alex4nder> I need like a 6 foot wide table for a CNC-setup Taig mill
[21:49:32] <alex4nder> this is ridiculous.
[21:50:18] <andypugh> I like paragraph 5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_scraper
[21:50:58] <andypugh> alex4nder: Perhaps you can wrap the motors round?
[21:52:11] <alex4nder> andypugh: it's hyperbole, but it's damn wide. The mounts I have put the stepper motors inline with the screws.
[21:52:45] <andypugh> I haven't done many conversions, but so far I have never ended up with the motor inline with the screw
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[21:53:31] <andypugh> Partly because belts are rather cheaper than couplings, and more forgiving.
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[21:53:43] <alex4nder> right now I'm figuring out where I want it living permanently in my garage.. I think I want the spindle at chest height, for torquing the spindle.
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[21:56:11] <robin_sz> always the problem, machinery takes up space :)
[21:56:21] <robin_sz> andypugh, hey, we got the Haas going btw
[21:57:24] <andypugh> Great.
[21:57:35] <andypugh> Did you see Steven Brigg's new toy?
[21:57:43] <robin_sz> was a really big problem with the X zxis, going into over current
[21:58:00] <robin_sz> which is why it was cheap
[21:58:27] <robin_sz> turned out to be the bracket holding the X limit switch was bent, so X ran to the endstop
[21:58:36] <robin_sz> one bend later, all working :)
[21:59:01] <robin_sz> no, what did he get?
[21:59:44] <andypugh> Boxford TCL 240.
[21:59:52] <andypugh> With pneumatic chuck.
[22:00:03] <andypugh> £1500 I think.
[22:00:38] <robin_sz> not familair
[22:00:56] <robin_sz> slant bed?
[22:01:04] <andypugh> I am trying to steer him to EMC2 (away from the BBC Master controller) but he keeps mentioning Mach. I think I will persuade him.
[22:01:25] <robin_sz> ah, little training lathe?
[22:01:31] <andypugh> Yes, slant-bed training lathe. I dodn't know they existed until he asked
[22:01:42] <robin_sz> looks like the Denford ORAC
[22:02:20] <andypugh> I think it is rather a lot bigger.
[22:02:41] <robin_sz> hmm
[22:02:44] <robin_sz> I take it back
[22:02:59] <robin_sz> it looks like what I thought a denford looked like, but doesnt :)
[22:03:14] <robin_sz> im sure there was a denford traiing lathe
[22:03:16] <robin_sz> anyway
[22:03:22] <robin_sz> nice little thing to play on
[22:03:36] <andypugh> Boxford are in Halifax, Denford are in Brighouse. They were, at one time, the same people if not the same company.
[22:03:47] <robin_sz> right
[22:04:03] <robin_sz> could well be some "different names on same kit" going on
[22:04:08] <andypugh> Harrison are/were in Halifax too.
[22:04:15] <robin_sz> anyway, yes, would be a great EMC conversion
[22:04:21] <robin_sz> mm mharrison
[22:04:41] <robin_sz> my second fave lathe
[22:04:43] <andypugh> Harrison did a CNC converted M250.
[22:04:49] <robin_sz> yep
[22:04:56] <andypugh> What's your favourite?
[22:05:09] <robin_sz> I know someone with a manual/cnc harrison, very very nice
[22:05:23] <robin_sz> You need to ask? Hardinge HLV
[22:05:40] <andypugh> I hate the Colchester Student that the Motor Club have. Every time I use it I realise what a total waste of space my Chinese lathe is.
[22:06:09] <robin_sz> mmm trying to make sense of that
[22:06:26] <robin_sz> you hate the colchester becasue it makes you hate your chinese lathe?
[22:06:48] <robin_sz> I has a Colchester Student :)
[22:06:56] <robin_sz> was £350 on the bay
[22:07:00] <andypugh> Yes, it just exudes quality and competence, and that makes me feel foolish for spending so much on my conversion of a bad base machine
[22:07:08] <robin_sz> hehe
[22:07:12] <robin_sz> I loves mine
[22:07:37] <andypugh> I want to find a Willson slant bed at the right price.
[22:07:39] <robin_sz> bought it on ebay, loaded into transit. had been toolroom/development lathe at a medical devices company
[22:07:45] <robin_sz> got it home
[22:07:53] <robin_sz> wondered how to get out of transit
[22:08:11] <robin_sz> took transit back to hire shop with lathe in, looked foolish
[22:08:14] <robin_sz> etc
[22:08:16] <andypugh> Tie on rope. Position mattress. Drive van forwards fast?
[22:08:44] <robin_sz> mate at tool hire shop got it out on forks, brought it round on plant trailer
[22:09:26] <andypugh> When I bought my Harrison Mill I used a tail-lift and a pallet truck.
[22:09:26] <robin_sz> anyway, you can pick them up cheap if you keep your eye out
[22:09:36] <robin_sz> :)
[22:09:40] <robin_sz> umm,
[22:09:59] <robin_sz> we ended up using a pallet truck on the haas for a bit of final positioning
[22:10:32] <robin_sz> after we had lifted it off skate
[22:10:42] <robin_sz> suprisingly tough things pallet trucks
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[22:12:05] <robin_sz> a freind has a Harrison Alpha 400, very very nice kit
[22:12:17] <andypugh> 2 ton capacity is normal, and heavy duty ones are stronger
[22:12:30] <robin_sz> I would say for the amateur machinist, even better than a full blown CNC lathe
[22:12:35] <andypugh> Well, mine is just an olde manuale mille
[22:12:50] <robin_sz> Alpha 400 is the lathe thing
[22:12:59] <robin_sz> sort of manual
[22:13:04] <robin_sz> and cnc combined
[22:13:10] <robin_sz> the handles work the servos
[22:13:28] <ds3> how do you thread on that sort of lathe?
[22:13:40] <robin_sz> then it will replay what you did, or you can tweak it, or program it from pc if you want to
[22:14:05] <robin_sz> I think just select it as a function on the screen
[22:14:12] <andypugh> I actually find my current setup ideal. I just say "bore from where I left the tool to a depth of Z and a diameter of X"
[22:14:50] <andypugh> Or "here is the OD, pitch and length, thread it"
[22:15:03] <robin_sz> you can do that on the harrison
[22:15:06] <ds3> nice
[22:15:14] <ds3> and it will not crash on blind holes?
[22:15:49] <robin_sz> its the ergonomics of having two rotary encoders for jogging etc like real lathe handles I find nice
[22:16:01] <andypugh> ds3: Yes, of course it will crash on blind holes ;-)
[22:16:24] <alex_joni> howdy robin_sz
[22:16:28] <robin_sz> like this: http://machinery-manager.co.uk/images/machinery/11614-1.jpg
[22:16:38] <robin_sz> hey Alex, long time etc
[22:16:49] <alex_joni> indeed :)
[22:16:54] <alex_joni> just got back home
[22:17:01] <robin_sz> doing well? keeping the bots happy?
[22:17:11] <alex_joni> yeah, all is swell
[22:17:19] <robin_sz> excellent
[22:17:32] <robin_sz> same here, sold a business so having a little downtime
[22:17:41] <alex_joni> just got back from 2 weeks of sun in croatia
[22:17:51] <ds3> :P
[22:17:58] <andypugh> robin_sz: http://www.bodgesoc.org/lathe/lathe.html
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[22:18:34] <andypugh> And yes, that looks like a very useful tool.
[22:18:37] <ds3> I mean it will the nerve wrecking dis-engage leadscrew AND whip the cross slide out action when threading a blind hole :P
[22:18:57] <andypugh> Oh, absolutely.
[22:19:22] <andypugh> For me that is probably the best part of CNC, it is great at stuff down blind holes.
[22:19:44] <robin_sz> alex_joni, ah lovely. by the coast or inland?
[22:20:23] <ds3> nice, didn't know those semi-CNC controls can do that...my exposure to those was a refitted bridgeport mill and that you have to kind of it it once to teach it
[22:20:43] <andypugh> I did a blind hole on thursday making a BT30 adaptor for one of my Wohlhaupters. Just typed in 2mm pitch, 34mm length, 16mm OD and pressed "thread"
[22:20:53] <robin_sz> the good ones can do it any way yuo want :)
[22:21:27] <alex_joni> coast
[22:21:52] <robin_sz> excellent. they have some lovely coastline from what I heard ... lots of limestone
[22:22:03] <robin_sz> all you need now is a boat ;)
[22:22:27] <alex_joni> heh, now I need to recover from vacation
[22:22:33] <alex_joni> (with my 2yr old) :)
[22:24:33] <robin_sz> heh, ah yes, they are a bit demanding at that age
[22:24:39] <robin_sz> dont worry, it gets worse :)
[22:25:07] <alex_joni> haha :)
[22:25:14] <alex_joni> well.. good night all
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[22:25:31] <robin_sz> nice to see yu anyway,
[22:25:34] <robin_sz> bye
[22:36:04] <andypugh> I need to attach an extension to a ballscrew (it will mount the bearings and pulley). The reason for the extension is one of assembly sequence, rather than anything else.
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[22:38:17] <andypugh> I know how I will connect it axially, (I will steal an idea from Wohlhaupter) but I can't decide on the torsional coupling. A keyway would work, but I am sure they always have a little potential slop. cross-drilling the screw then a pin into a slot would work too. What I am tempted to try, though, is a taper. Any thoughts?
[22:38:58] <Tom_itx> andypugh do you have a good source for your belts and pulleys?
[22:39:08] <Tom_itx> other than stock drive products
[22:39:17] <andypugh> I tend to use RS or Bearing Boys
[22:39:36] <Tom_itx> what belt series?
[22:39:43] <andypugh> T5 or T2.5
[22:39:47] <Tom_itx> k
[22:39:58] <andypugh> T5 x 16 preferred
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[22:52:42] <ds3> holy stress risers..managed to shear the screw in the ikea chear right along a thread
[22:56:52] <andypugh> Screws made of Jarlsberger?
[22:57:18] <andypugh> (Yeah, OK, so I can't think of a swedish cheese)
[22:59:40] <ds3> might as well been
[23:00:03] <ds3> given it is ikea, it is probally metric so finding a placement could be a challenge :(
[23:13:22] <andypugh> Depends where you live..
[23:13:59] <andypugh> Shouldn't be that hard I can still find Whitworth when I need to.
[23:14:59] <andypugh> I might struggle to find a Holzapfel's thread
[23:15:31] <Tom_itx> whitworth hasn't been used in ages has it?
[23:15:49] <andypugh> Not for 20 years or more, no.
[23:16:07] <Tom_itx> i have a couple whitworth wrenches still
[23:16:19] <Tom_itx> not really sure why i had them
[23:16:29] <Tom_itx> maybe an old old mini cooper
[23:20:19] <andypugh> That would have been UNC/UNF threaded, so AF sanners
[23:20:24] <archivist_emc> camera thread is still whitworth!
[23:20:26] <andypugh> (spanners)
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[23:21:49] <andypugh> I am not enitirely sure that camera thread is still whitworth. It's certainly the same pitch and diameter, but I don't think it is 55 degrees
[23:23:51] <Tom_itx> one was 1/4 but it was more like US 1/2"
[23:23:55] <archivist_emc> I am :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripod_%28photography%29#Screw_thread
[23:24:15] <Tom_itx> wiki knows all
[23:24:35] <archivist_emc> I know that from other sources too
[23:24:50] <andypugh> I _have_ seen a spec that disagreed.
[23:25:01] <andypugh> I _used_ to know it :-)
[23:26:58] <archivist_emc> maybe another country tried to go metric but 1/4 whit won
[23:27:09] <archivist_emc> same with pipe threads
[23:27:36] <andypugh> http://www.diybanter.com/uk-diy/254530-tripod-camera-screw-thread.html
[23:27:59] <andypugh> (seems to settle on Whit)
[23:29:29] <andypugh> I like whit. I have dismantled whitworth parts that have spent 50 years in a field (using very ubdersize spanners) I have failed to dismantle 10 year old UNF.
[23:30:12] <ds3> try finding replacement whit fasteners
[23:30:52] <ds3> machinery related question - anyone have suggestions (besides eBay) on a US source for a B16 taper chuck?
[23:30:57] <archivist_emc> no problem, there are still people making whit for replacement
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[23:31:14] <ds3> archivist_emc: there are?! who?
[23:31:20] <andypugh> As I said, it is never a problem. What I do wish were cheaper are old-whit bolts with the bigger heads.
[23:31:57] <ds3> got a stalled restoration project that I am thinking of retapping for UNC
[23:32:03] <andypugh> http://www.namrick.co.uk/acatalog/Home_B_S_W_Bolts___Nuts__19.html
[23:32:21] <archivist_emc> http://ccsfasteners.co.uk/whitworth-stainless-steel-whitworth-bolts-c-14_15.html
[23:32:43] <archivist_emc> plenty if you google whitworth bolt
[23:32:44] <ds3> oh UK
[23:33:06] <ds3> that resembles my B16 problem... plenty outside the US
[23:33:12] <archivist_emc> we are in uk so google will give us uk suppliers first anyway
[23:33:31] <ds3> *nod*
[23:34:04] <archivist_emc> and whit forn carbide inserts are available, make whatever you need
[23:34:08] <andypugh> B16? (SOunds like a BSA?)
[23:34:56] <ds3> B16 is a taper... it is apparently used outside of the US whereas we use Jacob tapers...B16 is suppose to be like a MT2 female
[23:35:38] <andypugh> Ah, stub-morse?
[23:35:50] <ds3> from what I can tell, yes
[23:35:54] <archivist_emc> RDG tools probably
[23:35:58] <ds3> but it is female on a chuck
[23:36:19] <andypugh> http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html#JT
[23:36:40] <archivist_emc> http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/DRILL_CHUCK_S___NO_ARBOURS__.html
[23:37:14] <ds3> I can find them outside the US...the problem is this is for a drill press that costs about $60US new...add shipping and it doesn't make sense
[23:37:48] <andypugh> I buy from all over the place. Slow shipping is cheap enough.
[23:38:35] <ds3> andypugh: know of a place in europe that accepts US orders and will ship using the slower then molasses in January method?
[23:39:29] <archivist_emc> ds3, look at the hong kong tooling ebay suppliers
[23:40:11] <andypugh> That RDG link will ship you the chuck for £15 including shipping.
[23:40:34] <ds3> they will accept US orders?
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[23:41:30] <andypugh> They take paypal and ship to US addresses
[23:41:40] <ds3> oh nice...thanks!
[23:41:53] <andypugh> Or, direct from Hong Kong: http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-658/6MM-10MM-13MM-16MM/Detail
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[23:46:52] <ds3> Whoa....the HK place has ER nuts
[23:47:18] <andypugh> They have tapered cutters for pattern making too.
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[23:47:33] <andypugh> I think RDG do ER nuts too.
[23:49:06] <ds3> somehow I am not seeing these places when I am searching for stuff
[23:49:14] <andypugh> http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/ER32_Collet_Chucks.html
[23:53:27] <Tom_itx> i wonder which would work best for an A axis collet
[23:54:03] <andypugh> Big as they go, you can always put a little one in the big one.
[23:54:09] <archivist_emc> I use morse taper collets on my rotary
[23:54:23] <archivist_emc> longer grip too
[23:55:07] <andypugh> I like ER collets
[23:56:05] <andypugh> My A-axis is threaded the same as my spindle nose to take the lathe chucks, and then has an ER16 in front for teeny stuff.
[23:56:25] <archivist_emc> I checked ER to ER and they are not that good
[23:56:51] <ds3> ER is nice, I made a few ER chuck bodies when I had access to a big CNC lathe but couldn't find people selling just ER nuts
[23:57:24] <archivist_emc> also ER cannot properly grip short lengths
[23:57:39] <ds3> no collet really works for short lengths, AFAIK
[23:57:54] <andypugh> In theory, no it can't. In practice is seems to.
[23:57:55] <ds3> unless it is a softcollet machined to support short peices
[23:58:41] <archivist_emc> think how the inner part its springy on ER and not on morse
[23:59:01] <andypugh> I keep meaning to look into making an ER 32 _expanding_ collet.
[23:59:22] <ds3> you do lots of hollow stuff?