#emc | Logs for 2011-06-23

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[00:16:59] <kbarry> wh
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[01:15:23] <Grandixximo> hello everyone, anybody can give me hand?
[01:15:47] <Tom_itx> i need both mine
[01:15:52] <Grandixximo> xD
[01:15:58] <Tom_itx> ask
[01:16:03] <Tom_itx> and someone will reply
[01:16:10] <Grandixximo> I know just kiddin
[01:16:29] <Grandixximo> I have connect a CNC 3 axis to EMC2 the axis move fine
[01:16:39] <Grandixximo> I want to connect the spindle now
[01:16:48] <Grandixximo> but i don't know where to connect it
[01:16:53] <Grandixximo> which pin is used
[01:17:17] <Grandixximo> i have use the sherline default configuration
[01:17:58] <Grandixximo> Is there a file where i can check wich pin is for what?
[01:18:04] <Tom_itx> dmesg
[01:18:12] <Tom_itx> may give you some info
[01:18:15] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure
[01:18:20] <Grandixximo> is a command?
[01:18:32] <Tom_itx> from the terminal
[01:18:48] <Grandixximo> ok i'll try that
[01:19:36] <Tom_itx> you want on/off or pwm control?
[01:20:00] <Grandixximo> pwm you mean control the speed?
[01:20:05] <Tom_itx> yep
[01:20:27] <Grandixximo> i want speed control
[01:21:43] <Grandixximo> i'll check the dmesg command and get back to you from another PC
[01:21:50] <Grandixximo> tty in a minute
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[01:25:55] <aitalmac> I'm back, i have write dmesg and loooots of stuff appear
[01:26:00] <aitalmac> what i need to look for?
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[01:31:11] <ktchk> Hi kimk are you there
[01:31:43] <KimK> Hi ktchk, yes I am, and I just saw your email.
[01:32:33] <ktchk> The zh-TW.po is ready what to do with it?
[01:36:04] <KimK> ktchk: Why don't you try to attach it to an email and post it to the emc-developers mailing list first? Or if that doesn't work, there are other things we can try.
[01:36:12] <aitalmac> how can i find what pin to connect to control a spindle pwm?\
[01:36:43] <Tom_itx> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Closed_Loop_Spindle_Speed_Control
[01:36:49] <Tom_itx> i'm not entirely sure
[01:37:42] <ktchk> kimk: ok i will email it to the list
[01:38:58] <KimK> ktchk: When it appears, take a look at the copy you get back and see if it looks correct or if something went wrong.
[01:41:51] <KimK> ktchk: AFK, I'll be back in a few
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[02:04:03] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/rotorytable.JPG
[02:04:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: EEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAaaaaaaaaaaaa http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Video-Two-cycles-dance-in-the-funniest-wreck-of?urn=nascar-wp2122
[02:06:28] <Valen> guy looked pissed
[02:08:07] <KimK> ktchk: OK, back
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[02:14:29] <ktchk> kimk: see my email to the list?
[02:18:04] <KimK> ktchk: I only saw your first one (no attachment) at :18 minutes. Your second one (with attachment) hasn't arrived yet.
[02:20:30] <ktchk> Kimk: it was out hktime 9.45 and in the modulator holding
[02:21:49] <KimK> ktchk: Still nothing here. I'll check every so often.
[02:23:36] <ktchk> KImk: i receive an email telling me the post was held by the modulator
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[03:32:01] <Jymmm> Does anyone know if glycol is electronics safe?
[03:32:49] <Jymmm> re: http://www.pugetsystems.com/aquarium-computer.php
[03:34:30] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Could be but I wouldn't bet on it.
[03:34:54] <FinboySlick> I'm thinking it could be a tad hostile to the varnish on pcbs.
[03:35:05] <Jymmm> Well, I wouldn't have ever placed a whole system in mineral oil either, but...
[03:35:31] <Jymmm> maybe food-grade glycol
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[03:37:32] <Tom_itx> question is, how conductive is it
[03:39:20] <Jymmm> "Minor uses of ethylene glycol include the manufacture of capacitors, as a chemical intermediate in the manufacture of 1,4-dioxane, and as an additive to prevent corrosion in liquid cooling systems for personal computers. "
[03:40:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardware/articles/29941.aspx
[03:42:14] <Tom_itx> i know about distilled water
[03:42:30] <Tom_itx> tap water is conductive
[03:42:35] <Jymmm> I wouldn't use water at all.
[03:43:18] <Jymmm> food grade glycol is easy to get in bulk, all the wineries around here use it.
[03:44:41] <Jymmm> I'd still love to try LN2 though.
[03:45:18] <Jymmm> could you imagine how much you could OC
[03:45:55] <Tom_itx> until you boiled it dry??
[03:46:11] <Jymmm> Well aybe in a sealed system
[03:49:10] <Tom_itx> need a pressure relief then
[03:51:56] <Jymmm> Eh, too much work =)
[03:52:13] <Jymmm> I don't need LN2 squirt out all over the place
[03:52:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It's kinda scarry already that my Nitrogen tank is 2000PSI
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[06:00:10] <KimK> ktchk: Thanks for letting me know you sent it. I have still not seen your attachment arrive, so the moderator must still be holding it. Did you send it to emc-users or emc-developers?
[06:07:20] <ktchk> Kimk: I sent it to emc-developers
[06:08:56] <psha[work]> i've not seen attachment either...
[06:08:58] <psha[work]> logger[psha]: .
[06:09:32] <psha[work]> ktchk: you need to run 'make'
[06:09:49] <psha[work]> rules in makefile will catch every *.po file in src/po directory and build corresponding .mo file
[06:11:27] <ktchk> psha: path of is the make file?
[06:13:04] <ktchk> psha: is it in the emc2-dev/src?
[06:13:31] <psha[work]> yes
[06:13:35] <psha[work]> main make file
[06:13:39] <psha[work]> and one in src/po
[06:13:43] <psha[work]> Submakefile
[06:14:02] <psha[work]> you don't need to change them - language list is not hardcoded
[06:14:03] <ktchk> which is better?
[06:15:06] <psha[work]> you need to run 'make'
[06:15:13] <psha[work]> build emc2
[06:16:20] <ktchk> I always use ubuntu prebuild emc2 it is new to me to build under ubuntu I am from gentoo so ebail look after every thing
[06:18:06] <psha[work]> see wiki for instructions - you need to satisfy build deps, run configure and make
[06:18:13] <KimK> psha[work]: Is a "make clean" needed first, to re-do language lists or something?
[06:18:36] <psha[work]> no
[06:18:43] <KimK> OK
[06:18:56] <psha[work]> see Submakefile in src/po - $(wildcard po/*.po)
[06:19:07] <psha[work]> there is no such thing as 'language list'
[06:19:14] <psha[work]> it's ephimeral
[06:19:21] <ktchk> If I have to do it where is 2.5 under git?
[06:19:24] <KimK> OK, great.
[06:21:05] <KimK> That would be a version/branch that you checkout, wouldn't it? So in the same file tree location, but it might look different under/in a different branch.
[06:21:46] <KimK> git checkout v2.5_branch
[06:22:48] <KimK> More on git here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Git
[06:24:06] <ktchk> I am doing it now thanks
[06:25:38] <ktchk> no v2.5_branch in git
[06:26:57] <KimK> You might want to look at "6. Work with branches", maybe you have to do an extra step or two the first time, but after that it's just "git checkout v2.4_branch" or "git checkout v2.5_branch" or "git checkout master" or whatever.
[06:28:18] <psha[work]> ktchk: git checkout -b v2.5_branch origin/v2.5_branch
[06:28:25] <psha[work]> KimK: v2.5 is remote branch
[06:28:31] <psha[work]> is it's origin/v2.5_branch
[06:28:47] <psha[work]> maybe you may omit '-b v2.5_branch' - i really don't remember
[06:28:59] <psha[work]> when git was young it was needed
[06:30:27] <ktchk> i got "fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git"
[06:31:08] <psha[work]> you need to do it inside emc2 source tree (that you've previously cloned)
[06:33:51] <ktchk> thanks
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[06:40:40] <aitalmac> I have connect a spindle to EMC2 and i'm having some problem at controlling the speed, the motor works i can change the speed, but i cannot give an output to the inverter of more than 20HZ, and at 20Hz the spindle is not at half of his max speed
[06:41:00] <aitalmac> i have try modify the hal file
[06:41:02] <aitalmac> loadrt pwmgen output_type=0
[06:41:02] <aitalmac> addf pwmgen.update servo-thread
[06:41:02] <aitalmac> addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread
[06:41:02] <aitalmac> net spindle-speed-cmd motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
[06:41:02] <aitalmac> net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
[06:41:03] <aitalmac> net spindle-pwm pwmgen.0.pwm => parport.0.pin-09-out
[06:41:04] <aitalmac> setp pwmgen.0.scale 1800 # Change to your spindle’s top speed in RPM
[06:41:20] <aitalmac> where it say to change the with RPM of my motor
[06:41:38] <aitalmac> but it change nothing max 20Hz
[06:44:22] <aitalmac> i'm doing something wrong?
[06:44:34] <aitalmac> You think is a problem with the inverter?
[06:49:27] <mrsunshine> hmm, anything one can use to spread persian blue except for a rubber roller? :)
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[06:58:54] <KimK> aitalmac: What type of signal is your inverter looking for? You say you cannot go above 20Hz, but is the inverter looking for (for example) zero to +10 VDC?
[07:00:09] <aitalmac> no control by PWM mode
[07:00:14] <KimK> mrsunshine: If you're spreading on granite, maybe just a paper towel?
[07:01:14] <aitalmac> sine wave
[07:01:52] <aitalmac> the inverter is a yaskawa f7
[07:02:25] <KimK> Your drive is PWM duty-cycle controlled, but with a sine wave? I'm confused. Is there a PDF manual available online?
[07:03:40] <aitalmac> yeah
[07:03:55] <aitalmac> www.elevatorcontrols.com/downloads/files/DRIVES/F7_Manual.pdf
[07:04:21] <aitalmac> should i make one axis more to control it?
[07:04:55] <KimK> Let me look over the manual for a bit first, hold on a moment...
[07:07:48] <KimK> Are you using the 2CN board, and is there a PDF manual for that?
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[07:17:06] <aitalmac> What is the 2CN board?
[07:17:11] <aitalmac> i did not use any board
[07:17:28] <aitalmac> dirctly pin9 to the PWM input of the inverter
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[07:24:37] <KimK> Pin 9 of your parallel port? And what pin of the Drive?
[07:27:22] <aitalmac> RP
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[07:30:09] <aitalmac> if i write 9000 in the pwmgen.0.scale and i set the override to 1000% the motor reach the 20Hz top at about 500-600% and then it goes slower as i increase the override to 1000% where it almost stop
[07:39:21] <KimK> Do you have drive pin AC (analog common) connected to parallel port common?
[07:39:58] <aitalmac> No don't have
[07:40:18] <aitalmac> I'm waiting for a card to send 10V analogic
[07:41:05] <KimK> OK. The RP input pin is referenced to the AC common pin. So that would be worth fixing first, and trying again.
[07:41:32] <KimK> A card to go between the parallel port and the drive?
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[07:47:11] <aitalmac> sorry common
[07:48:48] <aitalmac> i have the AC common connected to pin 19
[07:49:53] <aitalmac> from before, it's working now if i change the H6-03 parameter
[07:50:26] <aitalmac> it let me override what i get for input
[07:51:00] scanf- is now known as scanf
[07:51:01] <aitalmac> But i don't think the RPM EMC think are the same as the motor so i'll have to adjust
[07:51:17] <KimK> Yes, I was going to ask you about the H6-01 through H6-07 parameters, what are they set to?
[07:52:59] <aitalmac> H6-01 to 0
[07:53:10] <aitalmac> h6-02 32000
[07:53:15] <aitalmac> 03=1000
[07:53:18] <aitalmac> 04=0
[07:53:21] <aitalmac> 05=0.1
[07:53:29] <aitalmac> 06=0.2
[07:53:36] <aitalmac> 07=1440
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[07:56:32] <KimK> And what is E1-04 set to?
[07:57:19] <aitalmac> 100
[07:57:26] <aitalmac> this is max frequency
[07:57:53] <KimK> OK. Your power line is 50Hz where you are?
[07:58:08] <aitalmac> yes
[07:58:27] <KimK> OK, so you are x2, no problem.
[07:58:59] <aitalmac> at how many x do i start to have problem?
[08:00:04] <KimK> Haha, well, I don't know, but probably not at x2, unless your motor is very large.
[08:00:25] <aitalmac> 9Kw motor
[08:01:24] <KimK> 12 HP, not too big, probably OK.
[08:02:03] <KimK> What kind of machine?
[08:02:32] <aitalmac> 3 axis CNC
[08:02:39] <aitalmac> For milling
[08:02:44] <aitalmac> stone
[08:03:13] <KimK> Ah, a mill, OK. Oh, stone, interesting. And you're running EMC2? How old a mill is it?
[08:03:45] <aitalmac> We make machine
[08:03:55] <aitalmac> we are devolping it
[08:04:00] <aitalmac> It's new
[08:04:02] <aitalmac> xD
[08:04:35] <aitalmac> We want use EMC2, personalize it to work on wit our machines
[08:05:05] <aitalmac> we have to rebuild interface to respect internation standards
[08:05:15] <KimK> Oh, OK, great, please tell us the brand name when you are ready to announce, won't you? We would like to know the manufacturers that supply EMC2 as the control on new machines.
[08:05:18] <aitalmac> CE standards mostly
[08:05:30] <aitalmac> My name
[08:05:40] <aitalmac> is the name of the company
[08:05:55] <aitalmac> But we are still developing
[08:06:02] <KimK> Ah, OK, thanks. I'll look it up later.
[08:06:21] <KimK> What country?
[08:06:37] <aitalmac> I'm italian but the company is in China
[08:06:50] <KimK> OK.
[08:06:55] <aitalmac> It's a chinese-italian mixed company
[08:07:15] <aitalmac> where are you from?
[08:07:26] <KimK> Central USA
[08:08:17] <aitalmac> How can i see the RPM EMC thinks the motor is running
[08:08:28] <aitalmac> on the interface i just get some + buttons
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[08:08:37] <aitalmac> + - and override
[08:08:59] <KimK> Are you running the axis gui?
[08:09:04] <aitalmac> yes
[08:09:14] <aitalmac> the default one
[08:09:23] <aitalmac> with sherline files changed
[08:09:42] <aitalmac> to run with our machine
[08:10:36] <KimK> Machine --> Show HAL Configuration will let you monitor all the HAL values. You may have to hunt for them at first.
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[08:11:16] <aitalmac> ok
[08:11:53] <KimK> For H6-03, why did you pick 1000% instead of 100%?
[08:13:14] <aitalmac> the value i see is what?
[08:13:18] <aitalmac> RPM?
[08:14:04] <aitalmac> rps i see
[08:15:25] <KimK> Percentage of output (E1-04) when input is at max
[08:16:42] <KimK> I would have thought 100% would be less confusing, but if there's some reason why 100% is better, that's fine. There must be some kind of x10 or x 0.1 scaling factor involved?
[08:17:07] <KimK> s/why 100% is/why 1000% is/
[08:20:01] <aitalmac> i'm going to see if i can adjust parameters and i'll let you know what i have do or if i have problems, thank you very much for your support
[08:21:34] <KimK> Anyway, I think your problem is this: pwmgen is able to put out PWM or PDM signals, but your drive is looking for a variable frequency
[08:22:23] <KimK> So you would be much better off, in my opinion, to wait for your analog converter board, and send 0 to +10 VDC to your drive.
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[08:25:40] <KimK> pwmgen has a ...pwm-freq parameter, but it's only a parameter, not a pin. So it makes things difficult to put out a variable frequency.
[08:26:07] <KimK> Instead, you might try siggen. You can "man siggen" for more information.
[08:26:58] <KimK> But the 0 to +10VDC is still a much more popular standard to follow.
[08:27:30] <KimK> aitalmac: I hope that is of some help to you.
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[08:33:24] <aitalmac> yes you were greatly helpfull
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[09:07:44] <mrsunshine> yeey today my scraping journey begins :P
[09:08:37] <KimK> mrsunshine: Are you going to blog and take pictures? I hope so. (Or get a friend to take pictures if your hands are all blue!)
[09:09:02] <mrsunshine> KimK, hehe gonna try, have to find the charger for the camera tho :P
[09:09:17] <mrsunshine> remember tho that all ive seen of scraping is youtube :P
[09:09:25] <mrsunshine> so relay hope i can make the mill a bit better :P
[09:10:16] <KimK> We'll look forward to watching your progress. Are you starting on a real part or are you going to practice on a throwaway part first?
[09:11:20] <KimK> And are you hand-scraping or power-scraping?
[09:13:37] <mrsunshine> hand
[09:16:32] <mrsunshine> KimK, hell starting on the mill :P
[09:16:34] <mrsunshine> why not =)
[09:16:52] <mrsunshine> if it goes to hell its not like im gouging out 1mm flakes so i guess i could face it off again ;P
[09:17:06] <mrsunshine> maybe start on the mill bed to have something to practice on =)
[09:17:34] <mrsunshine> tho i need to change the bench in the workshop, it moves around far to much :/
[09:17:38] <mrsunshine> to light :P
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[10:49:46] <mrsunshine> gah trying to come up with a blog name :P
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[11:02:28] <nicko> 'Mind Over Chatter'
[11:02:31] <nicko> take it
[11:02:38] <mrsunshine> hahaha :P
[11:03:16] <nicko> 'Words and Sorcery'
[11:03:38] <nicko> 'My Karma Ran over my Dogma'
[11:04:17] <nicko> 'Cleared the Bowel Problem, Working on the Consonants'
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[13:43:21] <skunkworks> http://www.tormach.com/blog/?p=2363
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[13:46:49] <Valen> why do they say you cant use a touch probe?
[13:51:25] <skunkworks> no clue
[13:53:51] <skunkworks> I would like to know how they made a custom compiled version of xp 'MachOS is a cus­tom com­pile of the Win­dows XP Embed­ded Sys­tem co-created by Tor­mach and Art­Soft'
[13:54:13] <skunkworks> that is impressive ;)
[13:55:15] <SWPadnos> XP embedded isn't the same thing as XP
[13:55:52] <skunkworks> you can 'compile' it?
[13:56:09] <skunkworks> seems like something windows would not want people to do
[13:56:16] <cradek> I don't know what a "CNC Scanner" is, but the rest of that stuff probably just needs configuration that they haven't chosen to spend the time on
[13:56:30] <SWPadnos> the embedded versions are customizable
[13:57:02] <skunkworks> cradek: agreed
[13:57:38] <SWPadnos> that's true. I thought I had put the probing stuff in the PCNC1100 config, but maybe not
[13:58:09] <cradek> surely it's just one line of hal to hook up their probe input
[13:58:13] <archivist_emc> please remind them of the truths :)
[13:58:31] <skunkworks> cradek: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/rotorytable.JPG
[13:58:32] <cradek> "CNC Scanner" is a spindle-mount camera
[13:58:45] <SWPadnos> plus software to "measure" things in the resulting image
[13:58:46] <cradek> it takes many images and stitches them together - neato
[13:58:53] <archivist_emc> I did like "You can­not find a workaround for a cur­rent bug or lim­i­ta­tion in Mach3"
[13:59:23] <cradek> skunkworks: are you CNCing it?
[13:59:29] <skunkworks> not yet.
[13:59:35] <skunkworks> 21"
[13:59:57] <skunkworks> troyke - dad has all the toys
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[14:02:58] <skunkworks> http://www.tormach.com/document_library/TD30204_PrinterCableIO.pdf
[14:03:02] <skunkworks> looks simple enough
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[14:03:24] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: I thought I remember them doing someting hokey that you had to figure out.
[14:03:35] <SWPadnos> no, they told me about it :)
[14:03:40] <skunkworks> heh
[14:04:28] <SWPadnos> there are a couple of odd things. one, the spindle speed is controlled by some silly hardware that expects a Mach3-sourced pulse stream. I had to make EMC pretend to be like Mach for that to work
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[14:05:01] <SWPadnos> the other thing is that there is only one "spare" I/O, so all accessories attach to the same "aux port"
[14:05:17] <SWPadnos> so no lathe plus probe, since the lathe spindle is an accessory and so is a probe
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[14:08:15] <SWPadnos> ah well, gotta run. see you later
[14:08:30] <skunkworks> drive/fly whatever safe!
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[14:22:11] <alSMT> skunkworks, he said run
[14:23:58] <skunkworks> ;)
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[14:47:43] <skunkworks> hmm - wonder if my pallet swap routine still works. find out toninght. ;)
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[14:59:25] <mrsunshine> argh dammit, the indicator was broken when it arived :/
[14:59:32] <mrsunshine> need to wait another week to get a new one :(
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[15:06:48] <factor> that always sucks
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[15:08:34] <mrsunshine> yeah, already talked to the company so a new one ariving as soon as they get one from their supplier =)
[15:08:39] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:40:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I found you an adapter
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[17:25:18] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
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[17:31:54] <IchGuckLive> there wars a Video for Face image from Image to Emc someone nowes the link to this it wars via GIMP and Incscape and pycam
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[17:34:52] <tiberQ> Hi EMC folks, I'm on my way to buy a CNC milling machine and I wanna use EMC cause I'm a linux user in general...I may check the haase CUT 2500
[17:35:31] <tiberQ> Does someone anyone experince with this machine and EMC?
[17:35:44] <IchGuckLive> its easy to use and have a nice build on your needs
[17:35:59] <tiberQ> U mean the haase?
[17:36:30] <IchGuckLive> i work with the big Haas VF mills
[17:37:20] <tiberQ> I'm working with rhino3d and rhinocam to generate the g-code, but cnc milling and the software is new for me...
[17:38:25] <tiberQ> u mean this comp right?
[17:38:26] <tiberQ> http://www.team-haase.de
[17:38:42] <IchGuckLive> rhino has a bad G-code
[17:38:58] <IchGuckLive> but no matter emc will follow this easy
[17:39:23] <tiberQ> I mean this www.rhinocam.com/
[17:39:30] <tiberQ> which is like visualmill
[17:39:47] <IchGuckLive> yes i now i got a castomer that works with RHino 4
[17:39:50] <tiberQ> I now that march3 will work fine with this g-code
[17:40:07] <IchGuckLive> emc even bettewr
[17:40:24] <tiberQ> What do you mean with bad code
[17:41:02] <IchGuckLive> after every G81 its a G80 and move to the next hole via 5 more sentences
[17:41:17] <IchGuckLive> this is realy bad
[17:41:20] <tiberQ> In general I'm currently not 100% sure If I will buy the cut2500L
[17:41:27] <tiberQ> a good idea?
[17:41:29] <IchGuckLive> so lots of lines
[17:41:49] <tiberQ> strange
[17:41:51] <IchGuckLive> what are you going to do
[17:42:15] <IchGuckLive> milling Steal or wood
[17:42:31] <tiberQ> Curently I will mill reliefs, large scale sculpters in parts, etc.
[17:42:43] <tiberQ> wood, and styro
[17:42:45] <IchGuckLive> thats good to this
[17:42:48] <tiberQ> PU
[17:43:00] <tiberQ> Ureol
[17:43:02] <tiberQ> etc
[17:43:06] <IchGuckLive> why not building your own for less then 1/4
[17:43:39] <tiberQ> Cause I'm a newbie with cnc-milling machines...not a good idea
[17:43:39] <IchGuckLive> in the messurments that fit your place
[17:44:18] <tiberQ> back to the code what does this means...I have to delete those lines?
[17:44:21] <tiberQ> and IF not?
[17:44:37] <IchGuckLive> no
[17:44:43] <IchGuckLive> it will work
[17:44:54] <IchGuckLive> there is nothing to delete
[17:45:01] <tiberQ> aha...but?
[17:45:07] <IchGuckLive> maybee the Oxxxxx
[17:45:29] <IchGuckLive> http://www.sammellothar.de/x-rahmen.mpg have a look on the selfmade setup under 300 Euros
[17:45:41] <IchGuckLive> including notbook
[17:47:11] <IchGuckLive> the mashine is 4200Euros here haase2500 the equal frome posen 1.200
[17:47:35] <IchGuckLive> the kress is not the best Spindel
[17:47:57] <IchGuckLive> but its extra not includet i read
[17:48:03] <tiberQ> yep
[17:48:33] <IchGuckLive> tiberQ: did you ever looked on ower free opensource CADCam Heekscad ?
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[17:48:51] <IchGuckLive> this is near Rhino and has a mutch better DXF handling
[17:49:24] <IchGuckLive> tiberQ: witch country are you from Germany Here
[17:49:47] <tiberQ> I design In other 3d applications, and due the my previous work I used rhinocam to generate the code...
[17:49:55] <tiberQ> No, I will checlk
[17:50:07] <tiberQ> austria
[17:50:35] <IchGuckLive> oh there are cnc centers in Austria tht provide better mashines for less
[17:50:51] <IchGuckLive> Bichling near insbruck
[17:51:27] <tiberQ> It's a company?
[17:51:39] <IchGuckLive> no its the town
[17:51:57] <tiberQ> and whats there?
[17:52:17] <tiberQ> what do you mean with cnc center?
[17:53:08] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAVkVawm6pM this is a littel tutorial how fast you got the G-code out of heekscad
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[17:53:34] <IchGuckLive> tiberQ: there is a elektronik store that has cnc mashines in the showroom
[17:54:48] <tiberQ> thx. I will mill 3d stuff a bit more complicated
[17:54:56] <tiberQ> but I'm note sure
[17:55:11] <tiberQ> about the code
[17:55:17] <tiberQ> and the output
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[17:56:39] <IchGuckLive> no problem Rhino generates all in Lines
[17:58:07] <tiberQ> I know about rhino, I mean the heekscad ...
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[17:58:19] <IchGuckLive> sdoes the same
[17:58:35] <tiberQ> So you mean, there will be other cnc milling possibilities except the haas
[17:58:46] <tiberQ> cheaper and better?
[17:58:59] <tiberQ> I also found BZT, cnc-step, etc.
[17:59:03] <tiberQ> crap?
[17:59:40] <IchGuckLive> offcause 4.200 is realy expensive if you see the Drivers for 50Euros or less and the Steppers for 25Euros
[17:59:43] <tiberQ> MY firts challenge is to decide the right milling machine...
[18:00:06] <tiberQ> Indeed..
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[18:01:02] <IchGuckLive> therfore the little ALU and the bearing is 120 Euros somwhere around you is a Mechanical Tool shop that can make thew 8 Holes and your up to
[18:01:50] <IchGuckLive> as you see in the animation there is no part that needs big mashines to be produced
[18:02:21] <IchGuckLive> the Driving tread is 12x3 mm "Trapez" 5Euros at Madler in Austria
[18:02:42] <tiberQ> Yes,but why do you use the haase?
[18:03:00] <IchGuckLive> also the Timing Belt Zahnriemen
[18:03:06] <IchGuckLive> no HASSE Haas
[18:03:10] <tiberQ> ahh
[18:03:18] <tiberQ> cheap?
[18:03:32] <IchGuckLive> http://haascnc.com/lang/home.asp?intLanguageCode=1031
[18:03:58] <tiberQ> ok. industrial style
[18:04:23] <IchGuckLive> big ones fast strong and cheep
[18:04:25] <tiberQ> Do you know a good howto?
[18:04:33] <IchGuckLive> of what
[18:04:41] <tiberQ> building a cnc
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[18:05:12] <IchGuckLive> yust start its on your needs to what you end up
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[18:06:05] <tiberQ> thx for ya infos
[18:07:55] <IchGuckLive> ther are ony a view Thinkings needet how mutch power do you neet tho drive tru the material what precission do you need <0.01mm
[18:08:17] <IchGuckLive> so go for it its worth a Dry 150Euros and mutch fun
[18:09:07] <IchGuckLive> http://stores.ebay.de/BestChoose702/CNC-Driver-Controller-/_i.html?_fsub=1998084012&_sid=934335342&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
[18:09:27] <IchGuckLive> there are the parts low cost and what you need for the start
[18:09:43] <tiberQ> brilliant - thx
[18:10:14] <IchGuckLive> tiberQ: http://cgi.ebay.de/CNC-3-Axis-Driver-display-module-handle-controller-kit-/270763006415?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0abb99cf
[18:10:18] <mrsunshine> sucks that i actualy payed 3x the price for my drivers and they are identical :P
[18:10:22] <IchGuckLive> this is what you need
[18:10:53] <IchGuckLive> depending on the Stepper Phase Ampers you can choos 2,5 or 3,5 Version
[18:11:28] <IchGuckLive> if you go only for the Driver its 38Euros without the Handhald and the Digit unit
[18:12:22] <IchGuckLive> depending on the power i go 1500mm/min with a 5mm cutter on this Driver
[18:12:32] <IchGuckLive> in ureol
[18:12:43] <IchGuckLive> 3x8mm
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[18:13:16] <IchGuckLive> so ineed to go
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[18:37:49] <jdhNC> grizzly just called and said my mill is still scheduled for July1
[18:46:30] <ssi> 704?
[18:47:11] <jdhNC> yep
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[18:53:39] <ssi> sweet :D
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[18:59:37] <West0n> Anyone here use camworks?
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[20:01:43] <West0n> Anyone here messed with a chain based drive system?
[20:01:52] <West0n> I was wondering what the backlash is like
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[20:02:48] <FinboySlick> With dual chains, you can probably bring it down a fair bit, but I'm not sure just how much.
[20:03:17] <FinboySlick> Single-chain, I doubt you can get anything useful.
[20:03:35] <archivist_emc> West0n, you would need it to be in tension always
[20:04:28] <West0n> Dual chain?
[20:04:32] <FinboySlick> I guess one could design 'low-backlash' sprockets where teeth are wedge-shaped.
[20:04:35] <West0n> How would that work?
[20:04:53] <archivist_emc> FinboySlick, then you get another error :)
[20:05:00] <West0n> Wouldent just deeper teeth on the sproket reduce backlash?
[20:05:14] <West0n> Chains seem relatively tight
[20:05:21] <archivist_emc> chain would not be on pcd
[20:05:34] <FinboySlick> West0n: You have one chain driving in one direction and the other trying to 'pull' in the other direction.
[20:05:48] <archivist_emc> there is a step error as each link contacts
[20:05:52] <FinboySlick> Basically, you twist one of the sprockets until both chains are tense.
[20:06:42] <archivist_emc> no twist needed just look how belts are tensioned in a printer
[20:06:53] <FinboySlick> They sort of do something similar on large telescope gears where they have two opposite motors working together during movement then against eachother when it's time to hold a position.
[20:07:36] <FinboySlick> archivist: But then you nee sprockets that mesh perfectly with your chain, no?
[20:08:07] <archivist_emc> there is no such thing as "perfect" and chain at the same time
[20:08:36] <archivist_emc> depends on ones accuracy needs
[20:09:49] <West0n> I think I will use timing belt drive then
[20:10:16] <FinboySlick> West0n: To avoid backlash, it's probably more sane to do so, yes.
[20:10:45] <West0n> Will it work over a 3' span?
[20:11:47] <archivist_emc> depends!, size of belt, construction quality else yes
[20:11:51] <FinboySlick> West0n: Depends on the belts. I remember designing a sorting robot and getting some pretty good results with a belt drive that spanned roughly that distance.
[20:12:35] <archivist_emc> and job the machine is designed for
[20:13:01] <West0n> Its a low force application
[20:13:12] <West0n> Moving mirror mounts for a laser cutter
[20:14:18] <FinboySlick> This one had a couple platters on the same linear bearing rail and they had to meet perfectly without hitting each other during the cycle. I wouldn't have wanted to stick my finger between 'em but they did pretty awesome. That said, that was some very expensive AC servo machinery.
[20:15:30] <FinboySlick> West0n: For low force, timing belts are pretty good, you're less likely to stretch them and they can be very good on backlash too.
[20:17:49] <alex4nder> wl
[20:17:52] <alex4nder> er
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[21:05:12] <chille> sm7xvd: men jag funderar på att skita i det och skaffa en thailändska istället :
[21:05:16] <chille> wtf, wrong channel
[21:05:44] <chille> darn keymap that make me switch channel wehen trying to do a pipe character :|
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[22:04:41] <andypugh> On the return stroke of internal threading (can't recall if I have seen it in external) does the tool move diagonally , ie to the new start point? I was surprised to see the diameter changing during the return pass.
[22:14:14] <JT-Shop> andypugh: between passes?
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[22:14:40] <andypugh> yes
[22:15:15] <JT-Shop> seems to me I recall it moving in a parallel path back to the start point
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[22:15:58] <andypugh> that was what I expected
[22:16:14] <andypugh> it does on the spring passes
[22:16:44] <JT-Shop> it might be moving the drive line or something like that the depth of the next pass?
[22:17:30] <andypugh> Perhaps, but what if thread depth is greater than drive line offset?
[22:17:31] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G76:-Threading-Canned
[22:17:44] <JT-Shop> look at the screen shot and yes it does move
[22:18:07] <JT-Shop> but I never noticed it before
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[22:19:26] <JT-Shop> I want to put a passage hole in the shop wall to pass air hoses and extension cords about 2" in diameter... brain storming ideas on how to construct it...
[22:19:55] <JT-Shop> outside needs to be kind of like the old dryer vents with the little shed dormer to shed rain
[22:20:37] <JT-Shop> some sort of breech lock plug to fill it up when not in use...
[22:20:55] <JT-Shop> unless someone all ready makes something like that
[22:22:39] <andypugh> Looks like it is important that J < I then.
[22:22:43] <Tom_itx> use a regular conduit connect box
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[22:23:20] <Tom_itx> not permanent?
[22:23:20] <JT-Shop> I don't know how that could work
[22:23:30] <JT-Shop> yes a permanent install
[22:23:54] <JT-Shop> I'm thinking some pvc pipe with some kind of ends on it to close it off when not in use
[22:24:24] <JT-Shop> open it up and pass your cord through to charge the battery on the backhoe or some other temporary use
[22:24:42] <JT-Shop> like a mini port hole or something
[22:24:51] <andypugh> http://www.asc-soundproof.com/cablepassthru.htm
[22:24:52] <Tom_itx> put receptacles on the outside and call it good
[22:25:09] <andypugh> (Or another google hit for "cable pass through"
[22:25:35] <JT-Shop> ok that is cool
[22:26:04] <andypugh> I wouldn't be affording that if I was you, but I might steal the design.
[22:26:06] <JT-Shop> receptacles don't have air fittings or may not be 240v or whatever I want
[22:28:43] <Tom_itx> that seems like a rather expensive hole in the wall
[22:28:53] <andypugh> Memory foam cushion.. http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Memory-Foam-Seat-Cushion-Pad-Sandwich-Mesh-Cover-/260787736424
[22:29:14] <andypugh> The flap-up door and foam sandwich is pretty cool though.
[22:29:22] <JT-Shop> yea
[22:31:04] <Tom_itx> i think it would wear out quick pulling cables and hoses thru it
[22:33:00] <JT-Shop> I think I found what I want threaded adapter (like sink drain kind) with plugs... just unscrew the nut and pass my what ever through
[22:33:15] <Tom_itx> doggy door
[22:33:33] <JT-Shop> not well insulated or sealed
[22:36:44] <JT-Shop> even better plastic low pressure test plugs $4 each and a chunk of pvc
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[23:07:31] <DustyDingo> hm, took me ~6 houres to put this together: http://atommuell.mum.jku.at/~aurel/my_linear_axis_01.jpg
[23:08:09] <DustyDingo> without planning, i just started to build and used stuff, which was lying around my room
[23:10:28] <andypugh> An austrian milk delivery platform?
[23:13:18] <factor> nifty
[23:13:33] <factor> building up my design in a paper 3d model right now.
[23:14:04] <factor> use blender to render and design it but still much better to make it in 3d paper model
[23:14:17] <factor> at least for me
[23:14:38] <DustyDingo> hm, blender is pretty bad imho for this kind of modelling
[23:14:41] <andypugh> There's a lot to be said for just building.
[23:15:10] <DustyDingo> but i stick to it too for nearly everything 3d related
[23:15:21] <andypugh> Yeah, the engineering CAD modellers are better for mechanisms and machined pars.
[23:15:37] <andypugh> Have you tried Alibre CAD?
[23:15:45] <DustyDingo> nope
[23:15:50] <factor> I have not does it work on linux
[23:16:21] <andypugh> Actually, as you are a student (guessing from the web url) you can probably get Autodesk Inventor for free.
[23:16:36] <andypugh> which I used to use 8 hours a day, and quite like.
[23:16:44] <DustyDingo> hm, on this axis, i used PE, to be not too riggid, so i can build it with more tollerance
[23:16:54] <factor> autodesk does not work on linux does it
[23:16:58] <DustyDingo> but in the end, which will be very wobbly and unprecise i guess
[23:16:59] <jdhNC> .edu can get a 13month license for all autodesk
[23:17:01] <andypugh> No.
[23:17:24] <factor> I only have linux, have not used windows , at home for decades
[23:17:46] <factor> almost 2 decades :)
[23:18:08] <factor> linux turning 20 years old this year, I did not start using it until a few years after that
[23:18:09] <DustyDingo> also, any ideas how to cheaply do a muff for the stepper?
[23:18:20] <DustyDingo> currently i use shrinkwrap and some glue :)
[23:18:34] <andypugh> DustyDingo: http://students.autodesk.com/
[23:19:00] <andypugh> AutoCAD is horrible, but Inventor is nice.
[23:19:16] <andypugh> You mean a shaft coupling?
[23:19:27] <DustyDingo> yeah
[23:19:34] <andypugh> Hose and hose clips?
[23:19:52] <DustyDingo> i don't know much engineering terms ;)
[23:20:20] <DustyDingo> hm, it's a M6 thread
[23:20:22] <andypugh> http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/epr4.jpg
[23:20:32] <DustyDingo> and the shaft of the stepper is slightly smaller
[23:20:54] <andypugh> Ah, then you won't get Jubilee clips small enough.
[23:21:01] <DustyDingo> hose clips would be too large i guess
[23:21:12] <andypugh> Tube, string and the Constrictor Knot.
[23:21:43] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrictor_knot
[23:22:09] <DustyDingo> ah
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[23:22:53] <DustyDingo> but at the moment all these don't seem much better than shrinkwrap + epoxy
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[23:25:38] <factor> trying to finish up the z axis here, gets harder to find spots for stuff as you get to z
[23:26:11] <factor> trying to build a ceramic cutter. just a smaller version right now, or just a paper modle right now
[23:26:30] <factor> the ceramic will be submerged in water so need all my gear up top
[23:26:51] <factor> keep the parts away from the water except the bit and splash guard
[23:27:02] <factor> will keep the bit cool best that way
[23:27:55] <factor> and circulating water will help keep that cut clean
[23:29:11] <factor> making the z larger than needs be , may chop it down for only what I need, since I will mostly be working with tile. but would like to work with figurines 3d ceramic molds etc.
[23:29:17] <andypugh> DustyDingo: What tools do you have?
[23:29:33] <DustyDingo> andypugh: what do mean?
[23:29:54] <DustyDingo> i life in a 20 square meter room, so i got the tools, which fit in here ;)
[23:29:56] <andypugh> I can think of lots of ways to make a shaft coupling. But I would use my CNC lathe...
[23:30:14] <DustyDingo> na, i actually build this to move a camera
[23:30:32] <DustyDingo> i know, that i can't use something like this for millig etc.
[23:30:49] <andypugh> Do you have any taps and dies?
[23:31:38] <DustyDingo> hm, nope
[23:32:06] <DustyDingo> also no pillar driller etc.
[23:32:30] <andypugh> That makes it hard to think of any easy way to clamp a coupling to the shaft.
[23:32:42] <DustyDingo> :)
[23:33:35] <DustyDingo> hm, i need to get a bearing anyway, so maybe i can get something cheap
[23:36:56] <DustyDingo> hm, 32cm travell, i guess that's ok for what it is
[23:38:36] <DustyDingo> the end switches are also nice,... i buyed 5 kg of cables once and there was a bunch ob those, already wired included
[23:38:49] <DustyDingo> *bought
[23:38:57] <andypugh> Buy an M3 tap, and you can make something like this with hand tools: http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrical-Power/Fans-Motors/Accessories/In-line-shaft-couplers/64479/kw/43-1054?source=googleps&utm_source=googleps
[23:40:02] <DustyDingo> hm, looks easy
[23:41:01] <andypugh> You will probably need taps a lot in the future, and they are not that expensive.
[23:41:31] <DustyDingo> well, working with metal is kind of hard in your bedroom you know ;)
[23:41:43] <DustyDingo> that's the real issue
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[23:42:55] <DustyDingo> but atm every tool i get is an enrichment and enables me to do new stuff
[23:43:24] <DustyDingo> i couldn't have done this axis halph a year ago, just laked some really basic tools
[23:43:54] <JT-Shop> adapt improvise and overcome!
[23:44:23] <DustyDingo> :)
[23:44:32] <andypugh> The only problem with working with metal in your bedroom is getting the bits out of the carpet before you walk on them with bare feet.
[23:45:03] <DustyDingo> hm, wooden floor, no carped
[23:45:22] <JT-Shop> I once used some hydraulic hose and hose clamps and a home made adapter plate to fit a lawnmower engine to a broken outboard motor
[23:45:39] <DustyDingo> (carpet floors aren't common in austria)
[23:45:53] <JT-Shop> I did have an electric hand drill at the time but not much more
[23:46:56] <andypugh> I have spent quite a lot of time in Austria, but assumed the lack of carpets was to be ski-boot proof.
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[23:50:02] <andypugh> DustyDingo: This could be a good bargain if it doesn't get bid a lot higher: http://cgi.ebay.at/PROFI-BOHRER-GEWINDEBOHRER-KERNLOCHBOHRER-SET-14-TLG-/330580072257
[23:54:02] <andypugh> The same guy has some with no bids at €1 and no bids.
[23:54:53] <DustyDingo> hm, i use this stepper for now: http://cgi.ebay.de/NEU-Schrittmotor-Howard-IND-PIN-1-19-4100-12v-DC-3-6-/150594422820
[23:55:00] <DustyDingo> tho i payed 3 euros for it
[23:55:20] <andypugh> I think you paid a better price.
[23:55:37] <alex4nder> DustyDingo: with which mill?
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[23:56:50] <DustyDingo> alex4nder: no mill, just one axis for moving a camera
[23:56:57] <DustyDingo> http://atommuell.mum.jku.at/~aurel/my_linear_axis_01.jpg
[23:57:49] <DustyDingo> but i build it flexible enough, that i can put another or a bigger stepper in, when it is necessary
[23:58:17] <alex4nder> cool