#emc | Logs for 2011-06-20

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[00:20:25] * JT-Shop is a full and tired puppy
[00:23:35] <Tom_L> i don't think i like the estop there
[00:23:50] <Tom_L> i'm afraid it's gonna get moved to the top
[00:24:01] <JT-Shop> too big?
[00:24:09] <Tom_L> did you see it?
[00:24:20] <JT-Shop> no, been cooking crawfish
[00:24:23] <Tom_L> it's a small button
[00:24:38] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant7.jpg
[00:24:47] <Tom_L> but i had to make a boss for clearance
[00:25:46] <JT-Shop> that's a pain to do
[00:26:01] <Tom_L> alot of material removal
[00:26:20] <JT-Shop> your making it from aluminum?
[00:26:25] <Tom_L> i may
[00:26:33] <Tom_L> that or 3d printer
[00:26:37] <JT-Shop> just make a threaded riser
[00:27:03] <Tom_L> i'm trying to brush up on cad too
[00:27:10] <Tom_L> so it's a dual purpose exercise here
[00:27:28] <JT-Shop> I understand how that works :)
[00:27:30] <Tom_L> i may not make this one
[00:27:56] <JT-Shop> I got my motherboard changed out today
[00:28:07] <Tom_L> the memory problem?
[00:28:12] <JT-Shop> seems to be working well now
[00:28:35] <JT-Shop> no this computer didn't have a floppy header and I need a floppy for the Discovery 308
[00:28:43] <Tom_L> oh
[00:28:50] <JT-Shop> and the other motherboard was slow....
[00:29:06] <Tom_L> did you ever figure out your memory issue?
[00:29:10] <JT-Shop> I have the exact same setup at the other shop and like it
[00:29:27] <JT-Shop> I think the memtest was making it hot but not positive.
[00:29:48] <JT-Shop> I need to put a fan on it and run the memtest again
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[00:33:12] <Tom_L> i wonder how long it'll take to hog that out on my sherline
[00:33:45] <JT-Shop> if you had 2.5 you could have my cycle timer and run a sim on it
[00:34:13] <Tom_L> if i set up my feeds and speeds in my cam i can do that with it too
[00:34:21] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html/man/man9/time.9.html
[00:34:41] <Tom_L> it gives a time when it generates the gcode
[00:34:53] <JT-Shop> does it take into account acceleration and deceleration?
[00:35:02] <Tom_L> i doubt it
[00:35:14] <Tom_L> i'm not sure how it calculates it
[00:35:14] <JT-Shop> you do know that the raw time is in Axis when you load a file?
[00:35:25] <Tom_L> nope
[00:36:06] <JT-Shop> load any file the check out File/Properties
[00:36:10] <Tom_L> i might end up making it from hdpe
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[00:39:58] <Tom_L> i should work on a machine define for emc too
[00:40:30] <Tom_L> i haven't done one of those in quite a while either
[00:40:44] <JT-Shop> machine define?
[00:41:06] <Tom_L> tells it how to post the gcode
[00:41:55] <Tom_L> for whatever control you have
[00:42:24] <JT-Shop> ah, for your cam software
[00:42:30] <Tom_L> yeah
[00:43:09] <Tom_L> there's already a bunch in there
[00:44:13] <Tom_L> boss 3..10, deckel, dynapath, heidenhain, fanuck, mazak to name a few
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[01:03:04] <Tom_L> looking at it, you can adjust the calculated time to match actual run times
[01:03:23] <Tom_L> i didn't bother setting all those parameters on my sherline
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[01:55:10] <factor> Does emc have a bunch of hardware designs.
[01:55:19] <factor> trying ti find which design I want to use.
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[02:52:21] <LucaW7> Hello
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[03:51:24] <KimK> factor: Machine hardware or interface hardware?
[03:51:45] <KimK> LucaW7: Hi back
[03:52:03] <elmo40> KimK: ... one hour later...
[03:52:04] <elmo40> ;)
[03:52:30] <moopy> i think i got halitosis
[03:52:34] <KimK> Sorry, I had the general message beeper shut off.
[03:53:37] <KimK> moopy: Why's that?
[03:54:18] <moopy> I think we talked about it a few days ago
[03:54:54] <moopy> a univeral hal configuration tool
[03:55:50] <moopy> universal
[03:55:53] <KimK> Ah, OK. I do recall a tool used to draw up HAL connection schematics with Eagle Schematic/PCB. Would that help?
[03:56:24] <moopy> that would be interesting
[03:56:45] <moopy> where is this eagle schematic tool?
[03:57:20] <KimK> Try looking on the Cadsoft.de site (I think) and look under the user-contributed-scripts or whatever they call it.
[03:58:12] <KimK> Maybe it's Cadsoft.com in the US? I'm probably wrong, but it should be easy to figure out where I goofed up.
[03:59:27] <Tom_itx> cadsoftusa.com
[04:01:32] <KimK> You can install a free version of Eagle with limitations. Small PCB, what 80x100mm? One page schematics only. Maybe others. I used to think I'd buy it someday, but now I'm on Free/Open tools only, so I'm looking at gEDA and OpenPCB, two similar forks of the same original project. I forgot which is which.
[04:02:28] <moopy> i dont see any tools for creating hal schematics???
[04:03:14] <KimK> Did you find the user scripts? Over 100 I'll bet, when I looked at it several years ago. Maybe 200?
[04:03:50] <moopy> actually its not universal it only configures serial stacked kinematics joints
[04:04:23] <moopy> I dont know much about parallel kinematics
[04:04:56] <KimK> Kinematics? Oh, I wasn't thinking of that kind of HAL connection, sorry. I was thinking electronic connections, the "normal" HAL hookups.
[04:05:29] <moopy> what are the normal HAL hookups??
[04:05:53] <KimK> If you're looking for an automatic kinematic file generator, I don't know what to tell you.
[04:06:15] <moopy> i cannot grep any mention of 'hal' or 'emc' on the userscripts web pages
[04:06:21] <KimK> Just the usual HAL "wiring".
[04:06:30] <KimK> What's the link?
[04:07:03] <moopy> I dont understand 'wiring'?
[04:07:05] <KimK> Tom_itx: Thanks!
[04:07:47] <KimK> Connecting HAL components together to achieve the desired result, whatever that is.
[04:08:20] <moopy> but how would eagle be used??
[04:09:10] <moopy> surely you mean the eagle script will integrate a physic pinout diagram to the hal signal interface within emc2???
[04:10:04] <moopy> you mean it would generate a parallel pinout connection schematic??
[04:10:18] <KimK> You would use Eagle schematic to draw the HAL wiring, which would have two benefits: 1) It would generate the HAL file info automatically. 2) You would end up with a nice, neat, schematic drawing of what is really going on. (Which admittedly is sometimes hard to tell from looking at a HAL file. )
[04:10:54] <moopy> you have lost me?????
[04:12:00] <KimK> No, this would have nothing to do with the parallel port(s), but there's nothing to stop you from using a schematic package to draw up whatever you're doing there too.
[04:12:05] <moopy> do you mean you can give a hal configuration file to the eagle script and it analyses the logical connections and hal logic gates, then draws a connection schematic???
[04:12:17] <KimK> No, the reverse.
[04:12:53] <KimK> You enter a schematic of what you want HAL to do, and it generates the HAL commands.
[04:13:10] <KimK> (Plus gives you a nice drawing!)
[04:14:54] <moopy> it sort of sounds like it does something useful, but I am not quite sure how it actually would be useful???????
[04:15:46] <moopy> what happens if you create a schematic that hal could not handle??
[04:15:59] <KimK> Oh, sorry, duh! It was on our own wiki: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Eagle2HAL
[04:16:22] <KimK> HAL would no doubt give an error.
[04:17:43] <moopy> does the script analyse what logic gates are used and remove analog components etc??
[04:17:54] <LucaW7> Is there an IDE i can use to explore the source code of EMC2?
[04:18:17] <KimK> Thanks for reminding me of this, I should see what it would take to change it to gEDA and/or OpenPCB.
[04:21:19] <moopy> the wiki page looks interesting
[04:21:45] <moopy> I like the schematic example on the wikipage
[04:21:47] <KimK> Not really an IDE, but you can clone your own git repo to browse it locally, or you could just browse online using gitweb: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb If you put "git" in the Wiki search box from the Eagle page earlier, it will give you a wiki page on git.
[04:22:33] <moopy> I think eagle maybe overkill though???
[04:22:53] <LucaW7> Thanks
[04:22:54] <KimK> You can also put in something to get a complete list of entries, was it "*" or was it a blank line? I'll let you try it.
[04:23:11] <moopy> halitosis is supposed to be for idiots
[04:23:29] <moopy> its supposed to be like stepconf wizard
[04:23:43] <KimK> OK, well, whenever you're ready to submit it just let me know.
[04:24:30] <moopy> I hope to pack it up tommorrow, I have found what looks like the last edited code
[04:24:33] <KimK> Also if you're using Ubuntu, the gEDA suite is available in Synaptic
[04:25:15] <KimK> Just search for gEDA and install everything that looks reasonable
[04:25:21] <moopy> would be nice to get a schematic output from a hal config
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[04:26:30] <KimK> Yes, especially as a fault-detection method. Just remember the old saying: "It's impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious."
[04:29:33] <moopy> do you know of any code that will produce schematics from a circuit definition language?????
[04:29:53] <moopy> i seem to remember something called spice???
[04:30:18] <moopy> there maybe tools for vhdl to create schematics??
[04:31:30] <KimK> Yes, there are a lot of Spice variants available in Synaptic. Xilinx has a big free/gratis non-free/libre download/DVD. I think there are some free/libre VHDL tools too.
[04:32:09] <KimK> You can certainly create a netlist easily enough, maybe that would let you "back" into a schematic?
[04:33:21] <KimK> ("netlist" as related to schematics and PCBs and ratsnests, not a net list as having anything to do with HAL.)
[04:33:49] <KimK> Although you might be able to make it work that way, eventually.
[04:35:47] <moopy> a schematic of hal connections would be quite useful
[04:36:11] <KimK> Yes, indeed it would.
[04:36:51] <moopy> but halitosis hopes to create a hal from just joint definitions and will not handle extra logic
[04:37:27] <moopy> I am not going to develop it further, I finished with it last year.
[04:38:26] <moopy> I may look at it again when I have finished some other stuff, though I never managed to finish anything so far
[04:39:26] <KimK> Yes, see, now you're confusing me. But that's OK, I guess it's my turn, lol. I never think of HAL as for kinematics. When you say schematic, do you mean "wiring diagram" or "lengths of robot arms, distance between joints, etc."?
[04:39:47] <moopy> I just stop working on most things when i get bored and i have a proof of concept
[04:41:57] <LucaW7> I want to connect a 3 Axis CNC machine to a PC with ubuntu and emc2, and make my own interface for emc2, where is a good point to start, and from the start point then where should i move on too?
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[04:42:12] <MuPie> and also can import a 3d graphic of the machine joint
[04:42:52] <MuPie> then it creates a full hal file with vismach simulation
[04:43:15] <MuPie> also with virtual controls
[04:43:41] <LucaW7> should i start study HAL?
[04:43:51] <KimK> Did I mention that I had not yet worked with vismach? Maybe it's something you could use if you're trying to simulate a machine.
[04:44:03] <MuPie> the vismach never worked quite right though
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[04:44:40] <MuPie> I got a bit stuck on turning the DH params into openGL coordinates
[04:45:12] <MuPie> it should be a couple of hours work for someone that understands the vismach drawing code though
[04:45:59] <KimK> LucaW7: Hi, welcome. Before you try to make your own hardware, maybe you should take a look at the great hardware that's already available? Check the wiki at: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[04:46:00] <MuPie> I should fix it myself but it just seemed like it would take me 20 hours or more to understand it all
[04:47:03] <KimK> OK, sure, we have some gurus that can handle that. (I'm not yet one though, lol)
[04:47:19] <MuPie> also I almost got interested in parallel kinematics enough to think about adding parallel kines to the halitosis config
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[04:47:49] <MuPie> I just dont have time though
[04:47:52] <KimK> LucaW7: Or is there some special hardware you need for your machine? What kind of machine is it?
[04:48:07] <KimK> MuPie: Ha, yes, the time factor.
[04:48:17] <MuPie> I am away, hope I should upload the halitosis package tomorrrow
[04:48:37] <MuPie> bye bye
[04:48:43] <KimK> OK, I'll look forward to it. Will you host it, or send it to me?
[04:51:56] <LucaW7> It's a 3 Axis machine with stepper motor, i have already search for some hardware on the web http://img02.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i2/11481359/T27JVeXm9_VdNXXXXX_!!11481359.jpg
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[04:53:28] <LucaW7> and i want to use this to move manually the machine http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=9175876523
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[04:58:06] <LucaW7> i think i get how to connect the machine, i just want to know how can i make my own interface, and add option like standby to it
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[04:59:01] <elmo40> standby?
[05:00:24] <KimK> Well, if you want to use the parallel port, many vendors use some kind of multiplexing scheme to allow more data, otherwise you run out of pins pretty fast.
[05:01:26] <KimK> What do you mean by standby? Put the stepper drives on reduced current when not moving for awhile?
[05:02:25] <LucaW7> i mean put all speed to zero with a button
[05:02:32] <LucaW7> so the machine is in standby
[05:02:53] <LucaW7> it does not move, but i can go on if i start again
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[05:06:31] <LucaW7> like stop but i don't have to start all over again
[05:06:56] <KimK> OK, I think I see. EMC2 already offers a feedhold function, but I am not sure what the effect on ramping up and down steppers to avoid losing steps, etc. Maybe that would work for you?
[05:07:42] <KimK> I hope that the feedhold works "gracefully" with steppers, but I don't know that for sure.
[05:08:20] <LucaW7> i really want to make my own interface, add my own functions, manage the input output my way
[05:09:15] <KimK> Anyway, I work with CNC machines too, sometimes, and I like to have a feedhold button with a red light and a cycle start button with a green light. It's the traditional way, lol.
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[05:13:13] <KimK> If you want to manage things your way, take a look at the Mesa system http://www.mesanet.com/ . Look at their "Anything I/O" system. You get one mothercard that attaches to the PC someway (parallel, PCI, PCIx, more?) and that gives you the number of "Anything I/O" ports you need. You buy daughtercards to connect to the ports as needed, depending on what you want to do. A very flexible system.
[05:13:17] <LucaW7> Yes a feedhold button would work the same, thanks for telling me emc2 has one, but still i'd like to customize the interface, maybe make it more user friendly
[05:13:51] <KimK> Virtual Control Panel or Real Control Panel?
[05:14:26] <LucaW7> Virtual
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[05:16:31] <KimK> OK. Lots of ways to do that, two main ones. There has been for awhile now, PyVCP where you describe your panel in xml. Now there's GladeVCP, where you can work more graphically to create your panel.
[05:16:59] <KimK> Both will work, your choice.
[05:17:01] <LucaW7> ok thank you i'll look into it, thanks so much
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[05:18:18] <KimK> You bet. Come back anytime with questions, but please be patient in case nobody is around. Someone will eventually answer.
[05:19:18] <LucaW7> for sure i will
[05:20:19] <LucaW7> i have some more questions, will it be difficult to put the system on ARM, and is much different using stepper or servo motor?
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[05:24:14] <KimK> An ARM processor board? I only know that there are some people working on using various small boards, some are running them now, some haven't finished yet. Yes, servos and steppers are very different. At least assuming that you are not using one of those "servo stepper" systems that uses servo motors controlled by step/dir signals. Those will work, but they are not the best thing to use with EMC2, because EMC2 can't really control them directly. T
[05:24:14] <KimK> hey just seem to be steppers.
[05:24:18] <KimK> Oops.
[05:25:54] <KimK> If it was me, CNC machines are pretty big, hot, and take a lot of power anyway. I'd just use a regular PC motherboard and be done with it.
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[05:27:08] <KimK> Hey, Loetmichel, how are you? Morning in Germany already?
[05:27:24] <Loetmichel> yes
[05:27:34] <Loetmichel> 07:27 over here
[05:27:47] <KimK> OK, off to work then? Have a nice day.
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[05:28:07] <Loetmichel> no, i'm on holiday this week
[05:28:39] <KimK> Ah, OK, maybe we'll see you on the channel then sometimes?
[05:28:53] <Loetmichel> i AM here ?
[05:29:02] <KimK> Haha, so you are.
[05:53:23] <Loetmichel> and it will stay that way. even if i on vacation, VNC makes it possible ;)
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[06:09:48] <Loetmichel> *grrrr* shitty windows...
[06:10:27] <Loetmichel> had to reboot, mouse moving, but no reaction, even the clock was frozen
[06:10:45] <KimK> Which version?
[06:11:03] <Loetmichel> xp
[06:12:05] <Loetmichel> i'm coping with a USB flas my wife has gave me... pulled while writing -> "please insert media"
[06:13:40] <Loetmichel> which isnt so good since it is a not so cheap kingston 16gb stick
[06:14:07] <Loetmichel> i think there was the problem which froze the PC
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[06:30:28] <Loetmichel> *grrr* third time now...
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[06:50:47] <factor> trying to find a good build for my cnc , just a small one ,small steppers
[06:50:55] <factor> build a bigger one after this
[06:51:12] <factor> going to sleep now
[06:51:23] <KimK> OK, bye
[06:51:40] <factor> :)
[06:51:49] <factor> looksing at all the cnc's on youtube
[06:51:53] <factor> looking^
[06:52:05] <KimK> OK. Come back with questions.
[06:52:13] <factor> want all my gear overhead, classic cnc puts some below
[06:52:44] <factor> made a test one with lego works now moving up
[06:52:46] <archivist_emc> you want the gear in the right place for the right reason
[06:53:03] <factor> lego axis pieces only 2 inches max
[06:53:37] <factor> I want the gear all up top because I want the piece submerged in water.
[06:54:12] <KimK> Oh, you're building a wire EDM?
[06:54:16] <factor> will just be a 2d cut for this model ,ceramic blocks for cutting
[06:54:34] <KimK> Ah, cutting ceramics, my bad.
[06:55:03] <factor> EDM is that plasma
[06:55:16] <factor> my dad has a plasma I want to have a version for it as well
[06:55:21] <KimK> Electrical Discharge Machining
[06:55:31] <factor> but this one will just use the smaller steppers. 30 cm work area.
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[07:32:44] <nicko> hello all
[07:33:17] <KimK> Hey nicko
[07:33:44] <nicko> Oh hey Kim
[07:34:03] <nicko> I'm just reading up on connecting single-ended source signals to differential pair inputs
[07:34:18] <nicko> its a really hard thing to search for in google
[07:35:00] <KimK> Yes, maybe I can help you there. Is your single ended output from an encoder?
[07:35:32] <nicko> but - as far as i can tell you simply send the -ve input of the differential input to common ground between it and the source ground *and* the cable shield is also connected to that ground
[07:35:58] <nicko> not in this case - the 7i33 can take differential pairs and the ultra300 supplies them - all good
[07:36:20] <KimK> What's your single-ended output from?
[07:37:02] <nicko> the analog command from the 7i33 is single ended - the ultra3000 has a differential pair input for analog command
[07:37:52] <nicko> this .pdf seems to outline it all: http://www.bustec.com/support/papers/difinput/connecting_signals.pdf
[07:37:56] <KimK> That's fine. Just use both inputs.
[07:38:20] <nicko> *both* inputs ? wont they subtract to be noise ??
[07:39:01] <nicko> ideally I'd invert/mirror the analog command at the drive end then send it
[07:39:06] <nicko> but I'm cheap ;)
[07:40:35] <KimK> Do it like his figure 1. He got off to a good start, but I don't like his figures 2, 3, 4, etc.
[07:41:21] <mrsunshine> mooorning!
[07:41:44] <nicko> yeh but what I;m saying is that I dont have a differential/inverted output like he has in figure one
[07:41:47] <KimK> Morning, mrsunshine
[07:41:55] <nicko> I have a single ended output only
[07:42:16] <nicko> which is the case he outlines in figure 2
[07:46:07] <KimK> Yes, you have a single-ended output. So pretend that his signal source is single-ended too. Only the ground is noisy. How do you get the amp to ignore the noise? Connect the inverting input pretty close to the single-ended output's ground. Like he shows in figure 1. The other thing I like more about figure 1 is that he only grounds one end of the shield, which is correct.
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[07:48:05] <KimK> Hope all that makes sense
[07:51:36] <nicko> so +ve input gets single ended signal .... -ve input gets the ground from the source ... these form the twisted pair .... the sheild is connected to input devices ground ?
[07:57:46] <KimK> The shield is better connected to ground/earth, unless ground/earth is noisy in your location. Second choice would be circuit common. The idea is you want to give any interfering signals a place to go, once they enter the shield. And earth is a good place.
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[08:06:34] <nicko> The ultra3000 drive has "Motor Encoder Ch I+" output and the 7i33 has "ENCX1" input (among ENCA1, ENCB1)
[08:06:50] <nicko> I'm assuming ENCX1 is index ?
[08:07:39] <nicko> its listed as "IDX1" in the 7i33 manual though - InDeX ?
[08:09:29] <KimK> Ha, yes, manufacturers seem to agree on A & B, but they can't seem to agree on C / I / Z.
[08:10:37] <nicko> PCW cant seem to agree with himself !
[08:10:39] <KimK> Don't forget there's probably an IDX0 too, maybe you want that one?
[08:11:16] <nicko> ah yeh, I get the start at 0 thing in this case ... its just easier on the terminals using 1 and 3
[08:11:36] <KimK> Oh, in front, sure. OK.
[08:11:40] <nicko> is index actually required ?
[08:12:03] <nicko> cables can be shorter and clearer in this case ;)
[08:13:29] <KimK> No, but it's a good thing if you have it. The index makes your system accurately repeatable, to one encoder count. (Well, +/- one or something, but way better than just a home switch alone.)
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[08:39:25] <Tom_itx> nicko, the 7i47 is differential
[08:42:44] <mrsunshine> i wonder what tolerances are needed for a pulley to run fine
[08:43:07] <mrsunshine> i have a 20mm axle that needs to be turned down to 19 or something for the pulley
[08:43:38] <Tom_itx> or use a reamer on the pulley
[08:44:01] <mrsunshine> from 19, or i even think its 18 to 20 ?
[08:44:27] <mrsunshine> mm this is
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[08:45:01] <Tom_itx> 1mm would be quite a bit for a reamer
[08:45:18] <mrsunshine> yeah
[08:45:26] <mrsunshine> thats why i was thinking to turn down the axle insted :P
[08:45:38] <mrsunshine> but do i need -+ 0.001 or 0.01 or 0.1 :P
[08:45:49] <Tom_itx> closer the better
[08:45:53] <mrsunshine> that is, the roundness
[08:45:57] <mrsunshine> compared to the rest of the axle
[08:45:59] <mrsunshine> or wahtever :P
[08:46:01] <mrsunshine> offcenter :P
[08:46:03] <LucaW7> hello again, I have been trying to get gladevcp to run in the last few hours, i can't get it to work, in the readme it say that if i want to install gladevcp system-wide i have to link a folder share/glade3 wich i don't find anywhere, also i don't know what to do to link it
[08:46:11] <mrsunshine> Tom_itx, yeah ... true :P
[08:46:34] <nicko> The pulley ... what dia ? whats it running ?
[08:46:39] <mhaberler> LucaW7: which linux version, which emc version?
[08:47:04] <mrsunshine> nicko, its a pulley for the lathe
[08:47:05] <nicko> will it encounter fleet ?
[08:47:07] <mhaberler> what exactly do you mean by "system-wide"?
[08:47:09] <LucaW7> i got EMC from the GIT and i have install ubuntu 10.04 with EMC2 CD
[08:47:15] <mhaberler> very good
[08:47:17] <mrsunshine> dia is 4 different :P
[08:47:31] <mhaberler> so, run-in-place or install in /usr/bin?
[08:47:32] <mrsunshine> gonna move the motor and have an extra axle with pulleys inbetween the motor and the lathe
[08:47:37] <Tom_itx> mrsunshine, i just made a pulley for my spindle last week
[08:47:42] <LucaW7> if i run in place it works
[08:48:02] <LucaW7> i write gladegvp and it writes something like -h -help ecc...
[08:48:04] <Tom_itx> it runs rather true and hads a snug fit on the spindle
[08:48:06] <mhaberler> you probably have to remove the installed EMC packages
[08:48:33] <LucaW7> when i start glade it gives me lots of warning
[08:48:45] <mhaberler> glade or gladevcp?
[08:48:48] <LucaW7> that it does not find lots of widget files
[08:48:53] <LucaW7> i start glade
[08:48:54] <mhaberler> ok, likely glade
[08:49:13] <LucaW7> i do not need to start glade?
[08:49:36] <LucaW7> i think it says that for modify gladevcp files i have to use glade
[08:49:40] <mhaberler> glade is the UI editor. Gladevcp runs UI's prepared with glade.
[08:49:47] <mhaberler> aha.
[08:49:55] <mhaberler> you want to modify an existing UI?
[08:50:02] <LucaW7> or make a new one
[08:50:26] <LucaW7> how do i open an existing UI?
[08:50:55] <LucaW7> I think first i need to get the gladevcp widget working on glade am i right?
[08:50:56] <mhaberler> try 'glade <uifile.ui>'
[08:51:11] <mrsunshine> gah, i need to have the mill running so i can make a key slot on the axle also
[08:51:21] <mrsunshine> but the mill is dissassembeled on the floor :P
[08:51:40] <mhaberler> the install process places some widgets and python code in a glade-accessible directory, probably that is lacking in your setup
[08:51:48] <mhaberler> what does 'glade --version' report?
[08:52:04] <mhaberler> mine says "glade3 3.6.7"
[08:52:31] <LucaW7> yes mine too
[08:52:46] <mrsunshine> is set screws enough to hold a pulley on an axle firmley?
[08:53:41] <LucaW7> this command glade <uifile.ui> gives error
[08:54:04] <mhaberler> I cannot read your error message telepathically, would you please post it
[08:54:31] <mhaberler> like on pastebin.com
[08:54:34] <LucaW7> yes i have it on another PC so i'm writing it down for you give me a sec
[08:55:16] <LucaW7> syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
[08:55:38] <LucaW7> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
[08:55:48] <mhaberler> ???
[08:56:00] <LucaW7> that's the error that it give me
[08:56:01] <mhaberler> what was the command you typed in
[08:56:07] <mhaberler> give to what?
[08:56:18] <LucaW7> [4:51:36 PM] Toniolo Luca (grandixximo): glade <uifile.ui>
[08:56:22] <LucaW7> glade <uifile.ui>
[08:56:51] <mhaberler> you need to replace '<uifile.ui>' by some existing filename, not type that literally
[08:57:05] <mhaberler> forget this - just start glade without argument for now
[08:57:09] <LucaW7> i mean the shell writes that error when i write the command
[08:57:16] <mhaberler> sure
[08:57:36] <mhaberler> just type 'glade' for now
[08:57:48] <LucaW7> If i start it it gives me many warnings, and i cannot make a new file
[08:59:02] <LucaW7> project has no deprecated widget
[08:59:03] <mhaberler> what did you try to "make a new file"
[08:59:18] <LucaW7> make a new project
[08:59:26] <LucaW7> it's the first thing that open up
[08:59:31] <LucaW7> i should close it?
[09:00:23] <mhaberler> It would help if you go through a glade tutorial first, this is not an EMC issue
[09:00:36] <LucaW7> Ok sorry
[09:01:00] <LucaW7> Can you help me with glade?
[09:01:00] <mhaberler> like this: http://www.micahcarrick.com/gtk-glade-tutorial-part-1.html
[09:01:37] <mhaberler> I can help you once you get through your first glade example, and try to use HAL widgets
[09:02:17] <LucaW7> but i do not have the HAL widget
[09:02:27] <LucaW7> i think it didn't install right
[09:02:40] <mhaberler> I think so too.
[09:03:23] <mhaberler> look - try to work through a glade (without EMC and all) tutorial, and understand what is happening. Then move on to play with HAL widgets in glade.
[09:05:35] <LucaW7> You think the fact that i have EMC2 and EMC2 DEV, and EMC2 in a folder in the desktop is creating issues?
[09:06:02] <LucaW7> maybe i should keep only the one from the git rops?
[09:06:06] <mhaberler> I think the fact that you have *two* EMC installations is creating an issue
[09:06:12] <LucaW7> ok
[09:06:19] <LucaW7> thanks
[09:06:21] <mhaberler> exactly - remove the EMC packages with the pacage manager
[09:06:40] <mhaberler> then build EMC from source and install into /usr/bin
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[09:08:08] <mhaberler> run-in-place will not get you very far with glade as far as I remember, I think it insists on files being installed in /usr/somewhere
[09:21:36] <LucaW7> what version of emc you suggest?
[09:26:28] <mhaberler> master should be fine
[09:33:30] <LucaW7> so i download the edm2-dev then put it usr/bin renamete as em2, what instruction should i follow to build, i have to use the emc2-install.sh, or the configure make are ok?
[09:33:59] <mhaberler> you follow the wiki
[09:34:01] <LucaW7> ./autogen.sh
[09:34:01] <LucaW7> $ ./configure
[09:34:01] <LucaW7> $ make
[09:34:02] <LucaW7> $ make install-menus
[09:34:02] <LucaW7> $ sudo make setuid
[09:34:35] <LucaW7> in the wiki i can install it in many ways
[09:34:44] <mhaberler> yes, hold on
[09:36:24] <mhaberler> did you remove the emc packages alreaddy?
[09:36:44] <LucaW7> yes
[09:36:52] <LucaW7> i removed everything
[09:37:06] <LucaW7> I redownloaded the git
[09:37:08] <mhaberler> so follow the steps in 2.2 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Building_emc2_realtime
[09:37:14] <mhaberler> sudo apt-get install git-core gitk git-gui
[09:37:28] <mhaberler> in your home directoy, do this: git clone git://git.linuxcnc.org/git/emc2.git emc2-dev
[09:38:11] <mhaberler> then follow step 2.4, except: when running ./configure do like so:
[09:38:20] <mhaberler> ./configure --prefix=/usr
[09:38:26] <mhaberler> rest as per wiki
[09:38:37] <LucaW7> ok thanks a lot
[09:39:11] <mhaberler> with that you should be able to run a sample config, and glade too, hopefully
[09:47:38] <nicko> KimK>> the 7i33 outputs I think 5V drive enable
[09:49:05] <nicko> most drives I have talk in 12v to 24v - is there an easier way than some kind of little circuit to get 12v from the 5v signal ? some like trick ?
[09:49:37] <KimK> I'm not sure, that's a good Q for the 7i33 manual. It might be open collector, which would help.
[09:50:52] <KimK> Then you don't care, treat it like a switch closure to common.
[09:51:13] <KimK> Might need a pullup to some voltage.
[09:51:21] <nicko> I dont know what that means - mayeb I do, but I dont know the right language (hard to search in google then huh!)
[09:51:31] <KimK> Or maybe not, if it's just sinking an LED
[09:51:35] <nicko> manual: "5V CMOS active high enable output"
[09:51:50] <nicko> the drive enable input wants 12v+
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[09:53:00] <KimK> If it were me, I'd skip the 7i33 enable output and get it from GPIO instead, then you don't have to worry about the voltage.
[09:53:00] <LucaW7> @mhaberler: after i do the prefix thing do i have to move to the usr folder to do make?
[09:53:23] <mhaberler> no, you done move things manually - stick to the wiki
[09:53:38] <LucaW7> i have done but it's not working
[09:53:40] <mhaberler> sudo make install
[09:53:51] <LucaW7> oh yeah sorry
[09:53:56] <LucaW7> - - stupid me
[09:54:09] <nicko> KimK>> does the 5i22 supply 12v ???
[09:54:56] <nicko> manual says no
[09:55:39] <KimK> The 5i22 (and several others) does have a very tiny +/- 10 or 12 or 15 volt supply, but it's just for the analog I/O, sorry. Manual is correct. Use GPIO, you'll be happier.
[09:56:44] <nicko> so I have my spindle moving now - its all a bit wrong though
[09:57:08] <nicko> spindle speed says '0.1' in EMC - its going for it though
[09:57:39] <nicko> cant seem to get more or less than +/- 5v from it EMC though
[09:57:44] <nicko> hmmm
[09:57:51] <LucaW7> make install-menus gives me this message
[09:57:58] <LucaW7> make: Entering directory `/home/yy/emc2-dev/src'
[09:57:59] <LucaW7> make: *** No rule to make target `install-menus'. Stop.
[09:57:59] <LucaW7> make: Leaving directory `/home/yy/emc2-dev/src'
[09:58:26] <psha[work]> LucaW7: why not to grab packages from buildbot?
[09:58:44] <LucaW7> what's buildbot?
[09:58:47] <psha[work]> do you need to change something in code?
[09:58:59] <psha[work]> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[09:59:00] <LucaW7> Yeah probably in the future
[09:59:34] <psha[work]> buildbot provides packages for not yet released versions
[09:59:41] <psha[work]> 2.5 branch and tip of 2.4 branch for example
[10:00:20] <psha[work]> building from source is needed in two cases - you want to try new version in RIP mode without touching installed one
[10:00:31] <psha[work]> and if you want to change core emc components
[10:00:40] <psha[work]> otherwise packages are better suited
[10:00:50] <psha[work]> s/otherwise/in other cases/
[10:00:59] <LucaW7> i want to make my own virtual interface
[10:02:48] <LucaW7> using gladevcp
[10:03:08] <psha[work]> then you don't need emc source - just package
[10:07:31] <LucaW7> ok i'll delete everything again and install from package
[10:08:48] <psha[work]> installing to /usr from source is bad idea - you'll get lot of files not controlled by package manager
[10:09:07] <psha[work]> with package you always may delete package and replace it with older/newer version
[10:09:10] <psha[work]> with manual install - no
[10:09:35] <psha[work]> you may get lot of files hidden in different places
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[10:49:26] <LucaW7> i have install from emc2-dev configure make install, it works now, but still give me a lot of warning messages, i don't think they are important...
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[10:57:37] <psha[work]> LucaW7: most of warnings are not important
[10:57:52] <psha[work]> they are just 'hey, where is my shiny icon!?'
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[15:33:07] <skunkworks> come on now - people need to be talking about emc stuff.
[15:33:46] <jdhNC> ok. my inside circles have flats on them now, how do I tell (with EMC) what is wrong.
[15:34:58] <archivist_emc> backlash/play in the machine
[15:35:35] <jdhNC> is there any sample code that will make it obvious what direction it is in?
[15:36:14] <archivist_emc> how many flats
[15:36:22] <jdhNC> one flat
[15:36:40] <jdhNC> not sure what orientation it was in when I cut it, it is symmetrical
[15:36:54] <archivist_emc> how you came into the cut and dwelled at one point
[15:38:05] <jdhNC> it was CAM'ed, but the code looked fine (4 G2's for the circle)
[15:38:19] <archivist_emc> or you did a sharp turn and the trajectory planner caused a curve, use exact path mode
[15:38:44] <jdhNC> does exact path mode have any downsides?
[15:38:52] <archivist_emc> slower
[15:39:46] <jdhNC> slower due to cpu/computation,or slower max speed due to trajectory?
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[15:40:36] <cpresser> jdhNC: due to your machines acceleration
[15:41:06] <cpresser> i use G64Pxxx as a compromise between speed and accuracy
[15:42:28] <jdhNC> I was thinking of cutting square, then 2x2 internal squares, each starting in a different corner, and then all the diagonals. I assume backlash would show up in that?
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[15:44:46] <archivist_emc> I would test backlash by moving onto a dti from both directions to the same point
[15:45:15] <archivist_emc> within the dti's travel of course :)
[15:45:27] <cpresser> or use a dial indicator?
[15:45:54] <archivist_emc> the square test also tests other aspects of the machines faults/accuracy
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[16:18:54] <JT-Shop> jdhNC: backlash shows up best with a dial indicator
[16:20:46] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: Scheduled Delivery:Tuesday, 06/21/2011, By End of Day
[16:23:00] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: thanks a bunch!
[16:25:03] <jdhNC> I tried a dial indicator on X, but didn't have a way to reliably hold it.
[16:25:31] <JT-Shop> np
[16:25:56] <jdhNC> do you stay on the indicator and measure, or go way off and just look for return to teh same spot
[16:27:12] <JT-Shop> I just move in one direction till the needle moves then move back 0.001" at a time till the needle moves again and the distance you had to move was your backlash
[16:28:31] <jdhNC> doesn't that add in scaling errors, stepper errors ?
[16:28:38] <jdhNC> or do you care what causes it.
[16:29:27] <jdhNC> If I tell it to move 0.001", I feel it will be less accurate than telling it to move 1.000" inches
[16:31:02] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: are you working off a set of cad drawings or just pulling it out of your head?
[16:32:14] <JT-Shop> scaling errors is a whole nuther subject...
[16:32:42] <JT-Shop> if you have to move it 20 x 0.001 before the needle moves then you have 0.020" backlash
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[16:37:11] <jdhNC> I set the indicator, moved off an inch, moved back an inch, it came back within needle width
[16:37:53] <JT-Shop> great your scale is correct
[16:38:06] <JT-Shop> but you don't have a clue about your backlash from that test
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[16:38:17] <jdhNC> no
[16:39:58] <tom3p> put indicator base on nut housing, put indicator tip on flank of screw thread, push pull slide to see lash between nut and screw. repeat for thrust bearing to screw.
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[16:54:06] <skunkworks_> JT-Shop: I am cadding it as a get the raw materials.
[16:54:18] <skunkworks_> (pulling it out of my A$$
[16:54:20] <skunkworks_> )
[16:58:17] <JT-Shop> LOL
[16:58:33] <archivist_emc> jdhNC, it is important to come to your set point from both directions move +.1" and back then move -.1" and back
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[17:24:16] <JT-Shop> I love this reply "There is a concept of balance in beer, and you put a fat kid (hops) on the teeter totter with a skinny kid (malt, sweetness)."
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[17:38:16] <IchGuckLive> Hi all the Pneumatik treads are they special not UNC ?
[17:38:37] <IchGuckLive> G1/8 is in mm Drill Hole ?
[17:38:48] <syyl> some are metric M5 / M7
[17:38:54] <IchGuckLive> Does anyone have a list ?
[17:39:43] <syyl> maybe on the festo webpage
[17:39:48] <syyl> or smc
[17:39:55] <IchGuckLive> i messure 8.6mm hole but where to find this messurment's withwoth is Tube
[17:40:56] <syyl> G1/8 has a core diameter of 8,566
[17:41:01] <IchGuckLive> http://www3.festo.com/__C1256CAF00299230.nsf/0/FB0C27850F8B8515C1256C600048EC91?OpenDocument#NT0000096E
[17:41:09] <IchGuckLive> Got it Thanks
[17:41:40] <syyl> oh
[17:41:47] <syyl> *print*
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[18:12:42] <IchGuckLive> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Dunn Jackass passed away Today after heavy Car accident !
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[18:14:59] <awallin> darwin award?
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[18:20:28] <skunkworks__> JT-Shop: I forget - what was the aprox outside diameter of that pipe?
[18:21:59] <JT-Shop> 8.750
[18:23:03] <JT-Shop> actually more like 8 11/16"
[18:25:22] <skunkworks__> thanks!
[18:26:14] <skunkworks__> and aprox 3/8 wall thickness?
[18:26:18] <skunkworks__> offset
[18:26:20] <skunkworks__> heh
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[18:29:18] <JT-Shop> approximately 0.3065" wall thickness
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[18:51:46] <skunkworks__> JT-Shop: thanks again!
[18:53:13] <Tom_itx> approx?
[18:55:59] <JT-Shop> yea, I used calipers
[18:56:19] <JT-Shop> instead of putting the little ball ends on the micrometer
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[20:00:40] <syyl> anybody knows if 1-2-3 blocks with metric threads exist?
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[20:17:16] <Aero-Tec> I have installed linux on my CNC computers and networked then into the rest of my computers
[20:17:47] <Aero-Tec> now the linux machines can see the windows machines
[20:18:05] <Aero-Tec> but the windows machines and nor see the linux machines
[20:18:30] <Aero-Tec> so how does one get the windoes machines to see the linux machines?
[20:18:45] <Aero-Tec> windows
[20:19:11] <alex4nder> what do you want them to see?
[20:19:41] <Aero-Tec> I looked on the linux machines to see if there was some sort of way but did not see one
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[20:20:00] <alex4nder> what do you want the Linux machines to provide to your Windows machines?
[20:20:13] <Aero-Tec> the files system or at least a dir on the linux systems
[20:21:07] <alex4nder> so you need to make your Linux machines some type of file server.. probably using samba if you want the Linux machines to 'act' like Windows machines.
[20:21:17] <Aero-Tec> I want to use my windows machines to edit Gcode and gen Gcode and then put in into the linux machines so they can run the code
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[20:21:49] <syyl> i use dropbox for that purpose (and other)
[20:22:45] <archivist_emc> Aero-Tec, google samba
[20:22:59] <Aero-Tec> so you use a web based file service and use a browser on both computers to see your files?
[20:23:33] <archivist_emc> you can file share with samba or enable ftp or....
[20:23:33] <syyl> not a browser
[20:23:40] <Aero-Tec> the question was meant for syyl
[20:23:47] <Aero-Tec> FTP?
[20:23:49] <syyl> its integrated in the os
[20:23:54] <syyl> like a normal folder
[20:24:04] <skunkworks__> we use this a lot... http://cgi.ebay.com/1958-Kearney-Trecker-Milwaukee-Mill-Slide-Calculator-/360302364437?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e3b1c715
[20:24:11] <syyl> the files are storaged local and on the webservice
[20:30:06] <Aero-Tec> that drop box is cool
[20:30:36] <Aero-Tec> might be just the thing I need
[20:30:50] <Aero-Tec> thanks for sharing syyl
[20:30:50] <syyl> it a bit of a work-around
[20:30:55] <syyl> but i like it
[20:31:04] <syyl> as it works also for mobile phones etc
[20:31:06] <syyl> no problem :)
[20:31:45] <Aero-Tec> not sure if you can call it a workaround
[20:32:27] <Aero-Tec> with file syncing it can be just what I am looking for
[20:32:45] <Aero-Tec> do not want all my files stored in just one place
[20:32:56] <syyl> hehe
[20:33:05] <Aero-Tec> yet I need them to be updated
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[20:33:13] <Aero-Tec> is the update quick?
[20:33:32] <Aero-Tec> if I update one file how long before the others are updated?
[20:34:12] <syyl> depends on your upload
[20:34:30] <syyl> but normal nc files take only a few seconds
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[20:35:06] <Aero-Tec> I was fighting with what computer to store the most up to date files and how to sync then
[20:35:35] <Aero-Tec> cool stuff
[20:36:17] <Aero-Tec> thanks to the others as well for suggesting samba
[20:36:26] <Aero-Tec> will check that out as well
[20:38:40] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks, that tech maybe old but it is cool now such a simple thing like paper can be made so useful.
[20:40:45] <Aero-Tec> bet it is still just as useful today as the day it was invented, more so back in the day as they did not have the net and computers to help them find and use info
[20:41:23] <JT-Shop> syyl: they would not be 1-2-3 blocks if they were metric...
[20:41:36] <syyl> damn :D
[20:42:20] <syyl> those things are over here absolutely unknown
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[20:43:23] <syyl> maybe i need to make em by myself..
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[21:18:31] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,27/id,10683/lang,english/
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[21:32:47] <mrsunshine> yey my first handwritten gcode program works like a charm =)
[21:33:06] <mrsunshine> even added three pieaces to be milled and drilled using coordinate systems =)
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[22:27:02] <JT-Shop> mrsunshine: you get your parting off working?
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[22:51:54] <Tom_itx> heh, what *do* those europeans use for 123 blocks anyway...
[23:05:13] <JT-Shop> 1-2-3 cubits I think
[23:10:17] <JT-Shop> that does sound like a serious flaw in the metric system to me :P
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[23:16:38] <Tom_itx> maybe that's why they don't know what 123 blocks are
[23:20:43] <JT-Shop> I guess they would have 25-50-75 blocks
[23:21:40] <Tom_itx> i found a metric gage block set but nothing matching 123 blocks
[23:21:47] <andypugh> I have never seen them. Mine are 123
[23:22:01] <Tom_itx> 74mph gusts here
[23:22:16] <andypugh> 25:50:75 would be slightly more useful.
[23:22:30] <andypugh> Never figured out what the threaded holes are for on mine.
[23:22:43] <toastydeath> note to self
[23:22:59] <toastydeath> if i ever get into engineering succesfully, put random threaded holes in odd pitches on things
[23:23:01] <Tom_itx> mine are non threaded
[23:23:02] <toastydeath> just to confuse people
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[23:23:50] <Tom_itx> or a degree wheel where no holes align
[23:24:27] <Tom_itx> use wentworth
[23:25:35] <andypugh> my pneumatic drawbar is held together by a M14.75 x 0.9mm thread. You can do that when you have CNC. The thread was chosen to be exactly half of the two other diameters, and the thread pitch to be 1/3 the full thickness .
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[23:32:26] <JT-Shop> that must have been fun to figure out
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[23:33:15] <Tom_itx> who came up with that eagle thing for hal?
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[23:36:33] <JT-Shop> time to play with my girl friend...
[23:38:16] <andypugh> Tom_itx: There is a link to the author at the bottom of http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Eagle2HAL
[23:39:49] <Tom_itx> i wonder how many have used it
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[23:41:51] <andypugh> Probably very few. It's a bit like the Drake Equation. Number of users x probability of editing HAL x probability of being good with Eagle x probability of finding it in the Wiki x probability of being bothered
[23:42:29] <Tom_itx> i consider myself good with eagle
[23:42:38] <Tom_itx> but i'd never heard of it
[23:44:13] <Valen> lol ununsual spot to find the drake equation
[23:44:16] <Valen> what did i miss?
[23:44:20] <andypugh> Then there was crapahalic, another HAL Gui: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?HAL
[23:44:55] <andypugh> Valen, guessing the number of users of Eagle2HAL
[23:45:17] <Valen> never heard of it lol
[23:45:23] <Tom_L> heh
[23:45:54] <Tom_L> at this point i probably don't need it
[23:46:18] <Valen> it does look fancy i'll give it that
[23:46:52] <andypugh> There is a narrow band of HAL complexity between being easy to do by hand and being easier to write custom components where a HAL GUI wold be good.
[23:47:30] <MuPie> is there really intelligent life in the universe?
[23:47:51] <andypugh> Define "Intelligent"
[23:48:07] <MuPie> uses emc = intelligent
[23:48:20] <andypugh> In that case, at least 89 instances.
[23:48:37] -!- El_Matarife [El_Matarife!~El_Matari@adsl-68-88-198-51.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #emc
[23:48:59] <MuPie> i wonder if anyone is waiting for me to release halitosis??
[23:49:38] <andypugh> I am hoping that that is another HAL gui, and not a personal problem?
[23:49:57] <MuPie> unfortunatly I did not get round to testing it and packaging it up
[23:50:05] <Tom_L> not sure i'd want it either way
[23:50:31] <MuPie> life is too busy
[23:50:47] <MuPie> thats why i never get time to brush my teeth
[23:50:53] <andypugh> Is there a FOS equivalent of Eagle to steal the editor from?
[23:51:09] <Tom_L> fos?
[23:51:20] <andypugh> Free Open Source
[23:51:23] <Tom_L> you can use eagle free
[23:51:45] <andypugh> But can you edit the source?
[23:51:56] <Tom_L> the user language?
[23:51:57] <Tom_L> yes
[23:51:58] <MuPie> want to steal the schematic generator?
[23:52:45] <MuPie> I'm sure there are some free VHDL or spice codes that generate schematics from net lists