#emc | Logs for 2011-06-13

[00:00:30] <KimK> I'll check, BRB
[00:00:41] <Aero-Tec> how would one uninstall 10 and install 8?
[00:00:45] <Aero-Tec> ok
[00:01:05] <Aero-Tec> I am a linux noob
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[00:04:08] <KimK> You don't really have to uninstall, if you have nothing on the drive worth saving, just reinstall over the old install.
[00:05:22] <KimK> It might take a "Are you sure you want to overwrite the currently installed system?" [YES]
[00:06:59] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:07:02] <Aero-Tec> ok
[00:07:05] <KimK> The wiki says that 2.4.6 and 8.04 are OK. I'm not sure if the coming 2.5.0 will run on 8.04, I don't know. If anybody knows, please jump in. But you can continue to run 8.04, it just might not have all the latest features and fixes.
[00:07:14] <Aero-Tec> looks like 8 is way better then 10
[00:08:13] <KimK> On latency results, on your system, possibly.
[00:08:14] <Aero-Tec> 8.6K as compared to 182K for jitter
[00:08:40] <Aero-Tec> huge differance
[00:09:10] <KimK> Now there might be things you can do to help that, check the wiki. SMI issues, LAPIC, is it? Some other things. I'll bet you can improve it.
[00:09:24] <Aero-Tec> there must be something running on 10 that one could shut down and get better jitter
[00:11:27] <KimK> There are things running on the motherboard that can cause that, possibly. Check the wiki, maybe here first: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues Then go to the wiki and put in "latency" and see what you can find.
[00:12:17] <KimK> If I were you, I'd work on 10.04 before you give up on it. You might be surprised.
[00:13:54] <KimK> Oh, don't forget your video chipset. The wiki says , sometimes a used $5 video board (of a different type) will solve a lot of problems.
[00:14:27] <Aero-Tec> one thing I remember
[00:14:47] <Aero-Tec> on version 8 I had to mod a file
[00:15:03] <KimK> OK. What kind of file?
[00:15:04] <Aero-Tec> could be something to do with SMI
[00:15:18] <KimK> Ah, there you go!
[00:15:38] <Aero-Tec> I installed the version 8 many months ago
[00:15:46] <Aero-Tec> 10 was not out
[00:16:00] <Aero-Tec> I forget what file and what I did
[00:16:40] <Aero-Tec> I am running mach and want to switch over to EMC2
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[00:16:58] <KimK> OK. Well, there's nothing wrong with 8.04 if that's all your PC can manage. But if you tweak it a little, I'll bet you can get 10.04 to be happy.
[00:17:03] <Aero-Tec> setup the one computer to play and get a feel for EMC2
[00:17:10] <KimK> Excellent, welcome.
[00:17:20] <KimK> Do you have a lathe, is that it?
[00:17:34] <Aero-Tec> Lathe and mill
[00:17:49] <Aero-Tec> with a second lathe and mill to come on line soon
[00:18:30] <Aero-Tec> will have 4 soon, that is the plan anyway
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[00:18:50] <KimK> OK. I have heard about threading issues with mach so I can understand why you'd be looking at EMC2. Same with rigid tapping for mills, although that's more of a luxury than threadin on a lathe is, that's a requirement!
[00:18:58] <Aero-Tec> now to remember what file, and what I did
[00:19:20] <Aero-Tec> yep
[00:19:44] <Aero-Tec> and run aways in mid run
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[00:19:55] <Aero-Tec> I was doing a production run
[00:20:22] <Aero-Tec> had pounded out about 15 or so
[00:21:13] <Aero-Tec> was doing 16 or what ever and in mid run the bit took off full speed into the work piece
[00:21:24] <Aero-Tec> pissed me off to no end
[00:21:58] <Aero-Tec> it also does other weird and wacky things
[00:22:33] <KimK> Yikes! Runaway, now was this a servo system on mach? I didn't know mach offered servo, I thought it was just step/dir? If you can't remember what file you adjusted, you can probably figure it out again, just follow along with the wiki guides and see how it goes.
[00:22:46] <Aero-Tec> what you talk to them they say its your machine or you to negative or some other BS
[00:23:37] <Aero-Tec> the is servo with geckos
[00:23:43] <Aero-Tec> so step and dir
[00:24:11] <Aero-Tec> mill, the one that took a hike is stepper
[00:24:39] <KimK> And does mach usually connect by parallel port or by something else?
[00:24:42] <Aero-Tec> so no encoder problems or any other thing to go wrong for hardware
[00:24:50] <Aero-Tec> PP
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[00:25:03] <Aero-Tec> they can use smooth stepper
[00:25:14] <nicko> ello all
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[00:25:36] <Aero-Tec> but that is another can of worms
[00:25:50] <Aero-Tec> and will not work with lathe
[00:26:05] <nicko> anyone got the Live CD on a USB stick so they install Ubuntu/EMC on a DM510 ?
[00:26:11] <Aero-Tec> well no threading and other stuff with lathe
[00:26:12] <KimK> Ah, yes, those are the "servo steppers" aka "phony servos". Those can work on EMC2, but they are not recommended, as you are discarding a lot of helpful features of EMC2 if you use them .
[00:26:40] <KimK> But you can use them if you insist.
[00:27:03] <Aero-Tec> I want to get setup with a good system and EMC2
[00:27:19] <Aero-Tec> get the control boards and do it right
[00:27:21] <KimK> nicko: I can't help you there, but maybe someone will jump in, hang around awhile
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[00:27:33] <nicko> cheers Kim
[00:27:38] <nicko> I know some have done it
[00:28:08] <KimK> Some of the usual crowd are at supper.
[00:29:22] <KimK> Aero-Tec: OK, great, there's lots of help available if you need it. Welcome to EMC2!
[00:29:26] <davef> KimK, I went back to 384 meg ram. I couldn't boot with 512 M.
[00:29:56] <davef> Kernel panic--- not syncing, whatever that means.
[00:30:18] <davef> Then it would hang.
[00:30:24] <Aero-Tec> If I use the control boards, will this jitter thing still be a problem?
[00:30:37] <KimK> davef: OK. I was going to suggest using an install disk to get "memtest+" going from the disk menu. But your way works too.
[00:30:57] <Gensor> Kim: I found my needle
[00:31:08] <KimK> Gensor: Excellent!
[00:31:27] <Aero-Tec> speaking of hanging, mach hangs on a regular basis
[00:31:38] <davef> I have one. Can I do that without messing up the current installation or my files?
[00:31:38] <Aero-Tec> all computers I have run it on
[00:31:52] <Tom_itx> well i got a set of mesa boards to use on my little mill
[00:32:12] <Aero-Tec> so is EMC2 known to hang much?
[00:32:42] <davef> Aero-Tec never in my experience.
[00:32:57] <Gensor> Kim: it was odd the brightness was not the same as the other pair, I setup a pair of diodes to watch it change current direction
[00:32:59] <KimK> Aero-Tec: If you use the control boards, you can achieve higher step rates than just by the PP. But you still need to get to the bottom of "huge" latencies like the 182k you have there. With cards, 10k vs 30k is not such a big deal.
[00:33:00] <Tom_itx> i've heard it's far better than mach3
[00:33:40] <davef> Been using it for years
[00:33:54] <Aero-Tec> tom.. me to that is why I am switching
[00:34:18] <Aero-Tec> got to not like mach
[00:34:21] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Have you been here much before? Do you know of Stuart and his shop?
[00:34:23] <Tom_itx> i'm using parport with a 7i43 and an io buffer board
[00:34:29] <Aero-Tec> hate to rewrite my Gcode
[00:35:04] <Aero-Tec> KimK: no have not heard of him
[00:35:06] <Tom_itx> shouldn't be much to change
[00:35:19] <Aero-Tec> I have been here a few times
[00:35:23] <Aero-Tec> not much
[00:35:29] <davef> KimK thanks again. Bye...
[00:35:51] <KimK> Aero-Tec: EMC2 gcode is pretty much Fanuc-like, Haas-like, all the usual suspects. But with lots of handy features.
[00:35:59] <Aero-Tec> so whats the word on Stuart and his shop?
[00:36:00] <KimK> davef: bye!
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[00:37:00] <Aero-Tec> so when I use a CAM program, what machine do I tell the program to gen code for?
[00:37:23] <Aero-Tec> you keep using like
[00:37:35] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna mod mine for emc
[00:37:44] <Tom_itx> i've tweaked it for several controls
[00:38:21] <KimK> Oh, EMC2 is good if they offer it, if not, RS274NGC is good, Fanuc is good, Haas is good, many of them will work.
[00:39:14] <Gensor> kim: Im going to stretch you thin, how about my 6 remaining outputs and a big gage black wire
[00:39:44] <Aero-Tec> KimK: so what about Stuart and his shop?
[00:40:07] <KimK> Gensor: try them one at a time with a 4700 pullup to 5V.
[00:41:46] <KimK> Stuart has a big CNC shop in Wichita. He has converted several machines to EMC2 including this 5-axis Cincinnati: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M
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[00:42:02] <Tom_itx> ahh i know where that is
[00:42:13] <Tom_itx> i should swing by and see it
[00:42:23] <Tom_itx> KimK, where do you reside?
[00:42:33] <Gensor> wow, I have one of those in my basement but larger
[00:42:45] <KimK> Here he is doing some early 5-axis calibration on the Cinci: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1bJ3YAQdI
[00:43:25] <KimK> Tom_itx: I'm in Omaha. But I'm willing to consider other offers, lol.
[00:43:41] <Tom_itx> i lived there as a kid
[00:43:42] <KimK> Let me know if you hear of anything.
[00:44:05] <Tom_itx> i'm about a mile from Stuart's shop
[00:45:06] <KimK> Tom_itx: Well, if Stuart ever hosts a gathering again, I hope to see you there!
[00:45:13] <Gensor> too cool, thanks for the link
[00:45:34] <KimK> But that's not the really amazing thing.
[00:47:18] <Aero-Tec> what is more amazing then that machine?
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[00:47:32] <Aero-Tec> man it is big
[00:48:03] <KimK> He also has a big gantry mill called a Viper. http://www.mpm1.com/viper.html Bigger pix at http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/viper-BCbridge/pictures/S1030246.JPG
[00:48:35] <Aero-Tec> looks like it can eat you whole and not think twice about it
[00:50:19] <Gensor> Kim: Other than a signal, should I be getting a variable voltage per rotation
[00:50:21] <KimK> The Viper has a perfectly good control on it now, a Fanuc 18M, I think it was. Stuart is ready to pull the existing control off and put on EMC2. He is only holding back until he has all the connectors, information, etc, so the Viper will only be down for a week, then he'll do it. He wants to convert ot EMC2 so hec do some 5-axis error correction like he did on the Cinci.
[00:51:01] <KimK> s/hec/ he can/
[00:52:47] <KimK> Gensor: Not variable, more digital high-low, but it should be easy to find, obvious, not like hunting for that @#$% index pulse, lol! Only a small number of division per rotation, 8 or 16 usually.
[00:52:51] <Tom_itx> the current control won't do that?
[00:54:04] <KimK> Well, I don't know, maybe it can, but it's proprietary. So I think the dealer has to come out and enable that bit for a fee if you want to use that feature.
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[00:54:46] <Tom_itx> yeah they charge out the wazoo on some things
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[00:57:21] <KimK> But I'm betting it can't even for a fee. For example, Stuart has a correction built into the Cinci now just on XY because X isn't square to Y. It was 0.002" out over almost 10 feet, I think it was. But he had some aircraft parts that were almost 10 feet long and had +/- 0.002" location specs.
[00:57:33] <Gensor> Kim: nothing acting different with a pullup resistor, I do have two wires with a strong on single though
[00:59:35] <KimK> So he was using up his whole error budget on the part on Cinci errors. So he used EMC2's kinematics feature to introduce a correction. Now Y creeps about 0.002" as X moves back and forth about 10 feet. I think that's pretty cool.
[01:00:26] <Tom_itx> i wonder what parts needed that much accuracy over 10'
[01:00:29] <Gensor> that is cool, now I know what kinematics brings to the table
[01:00:32] <KimK> He's got other corrections going too that are harder to describe, being 5-axis, 3-D and all. But he can tell you all about it.
[01:00:49] <Tom_itx> we'ver run wing spars but they weren't that accurate
[01:01:06] <Tom_itx> flap tracks are another high accuracy part that are big
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[01:03:22] <KimK> Gensor: so are you seeing any of the wires that are on the low side of the pullup resistor get pulled down as you rotate? (It should be pretty obvious this time around, I imagine your eyes hurt after that needle-in-haystack routine.)
[01:04:20] <elmo401> has anyone written a resignation letter before? just wondering what to say.
[01:04:27] <Tom_itx> i quit
[01:04:30] <KimK> Gensor: Yes, kinematics are usually used to describe robot geometry, or hexapod geometry, etc. But that's not all they can do.
[01:04:35] <elmo401> been with the place for 5 years now but someone else has offered a better job
[01:04:40] <elmo401> Tom_itx: lol
[01:04:43] <elmo401> too simple
[01:04:45] <elmo401> I love it
[01:04:46] <Tom_itx> heh
[01:04:56] <Tom_itx> i quit because you don't pay enough
[01:05:03] <elmo401> that too
[01:05:21] <elmo401> new place is less drive & more money. a win-win situation
[01:05:43] <Tom_itx> tell them that they were a wonderful stepping stone in your career
[01:05:46] <elmo401> plus I will be programming more and less shop floor time :)
[01:05:55] <elmo401> has anyone used GibbsCAM? any pointers?
[01:06:07] <Tom_itx> never heard of that one
[01:06:53] <Gensor> Please accept this as two weeks formal notice of my resignation from Sanmina-SCI Corporation. My final day of employment will be February 1st, 2006.
[01:06:53] <Gensor> I have thoroughly enjoyed the work environment and professional atmosphere at SSCI. Your management, direction, guidance, and counseling have been the source of great personal and career satisfaction, and I am grateful. The experience and knowledge gained during my association with SSCI has provided significant career growth for which I shall always be appreciative.
[01:06:53] <Gensor> In order to continue this same progression of professional growth, I have already accepted a new position which I believe will significantly contribute to my continued career development.
[01:06:53] <Gensor> Bob, in order to further assure our continued longstanding relationship, I wish to strongly communicate my intentions to be as helpful as possible in this transition and in the transference of current responsibilities to those who will be assigned to these tasks.
[01:07:41] <KimK> elmo401: It's in writing, so it's good to be nice. Tell them you've been offered a better opportunity, tell them how long you can work, thank them.
[01:08:08] <KimK> Gensor: Ha! You've been there, done that, and got the T-shirt, lol!
[01:08:27] <Jymmm> Um, 2006?
[01:08:57] <KimK> Jymmm: It's beyond the 5-year limit now, lol.
[01:09:01] <elmo401> cut'n'paste ;)
[01:10:18] <KimK> elmo401: Good luck with the transition. Let us know how it's going.
[01:10:19] <Gensor> Its yours to use as you wish, I am proud regarding how much sunshine it blows in all directions
[01:10:21] <elmo401> Gensor: sounds lovely. too bad I have to lie about the management part :P
[01:11:05] <Aero-Tec> lol
[01:11:16] <Aero-Tec> ask for a raise
[01:11:19] <Gensor> its best you do, I purchased some JD's as a going away gift... and told them I would not stay even if they doubled my salary... :)
[01:11:24] <Aero-Tec> a big one or your walking
[01:12:03] <elmo401> I may give it some thought (about the asking of a raise... but I have had enough). time to move on.
[01:12:18] <elmo401> besides, I will be programming. less setup and machining
[01:12:20] <KimK> elmo401: Also (depending on the company) be prepared to be *immediately* escorted to your desk to clean it out and then to the front gate. Companies vary, but it happens sometimes.
[01:12:54] <Gensor> do not be offended if they do, bad apples ruin it for us all
[01:13:10] <Aero-Tec> ask for raise and promotion to programmer
[01:13:14] <elmo401> ya, this place has kept people working the full 2 weeks... but I am brining my truck just in case (I have a 250lb tool box! )
[01:13:23] <Aero-Tec> you have nothing to loose at this point
[01:13:38] <Tom_itx> make sure you have your keys to lock it
[01:13:39] <KimK> Yes, "don't take it personal", as a friend of mine says.
[01:14:29] <elmo401> nothing is personal, it is all business... people should never loose sight of that.
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[01:14:44] <Aero-Tec> did you talk to any of the workers at the new place?
[01:14:51] <elmo401> yes
[01:14:55] <Aero-Tec> see what they say about the bosses?
[01:14:56] <elmo401> took a full tour.
[01:15:00] <Gensor> Kim: 5v->4700ohm->outputsignal->330ohm->ground with red->5v and red/white to ground right???
[01:15:54] <Aero-Tec> hope it all works out great for you
[01:15:59] <Tom_itx> Gensor, are you trying to make a voltage divider?
[01:16:09] <elmo401> Aero-Tec: the place is smaller, 1/10th the size. people on the floor were all welcoming. second and third in command seemed rather nice. no clue on the head honcho (never actually met my current head honcho)
[01:16:11] <Gensor> wait.... before you give notice try to figure out when the last day is to get your full month of medical insurance :)
[01:16:43] <elmo401> Gensor: I am in Ontario, no company medical insurance issues to deal with
[01:16:49] <KimK> Gensor: I think I'd skip the 330 to ground, that will limit your signal swing quite a bit. Maybe just a 4700 to +5. other end to the wire under test and a voltmeter.
[01:16:52] <Gensor> it was the 1st of the month the paid the policy for the next 30 days
[01:17:19] <elmo401> I start the new place on the first Mon in July.
[01:17:27] <Aero-Tec> Gensor: you sure know how to blow smoke, and you do it so well
[01:18:01] <Aero-Tec> thing is I can not see how they fall for that BS
[01:18:13] <Gensor> thanks :) years of practive and being around sales who are a slippery fish
[01:18:39] <KimK> Gensor: Or you can use your 4700 & LED combo, that would work too. Use it as a pullup resistor. Connect it so the LED will light if the low end is grounded.
[01:19:02] <Gensor> mosts exists are painful for management, if you can make it easier they will be greatful
[01:19:18] <Aero-Tec> ok
[01:19:45] <KimK> s/mosts exists/most exits/ Help, I can't stop editing!
[01:20:11] <Aero-Tec> but still it was layed on thick
[01:20:41] <Gensor> makes it harder for them to be ah's :)
[01:20:52] <Aero-Tec> nice to leave on a good note in case you need to come back
[01:21:21] <Aero-Tec> I also live in Canada
[01:21:28] <Gensor> especially in this economy... right Kim?
[01:21:31] <Aero-Tec> west coast
[01:21:39] <KimK> Yes, indeed!
[01:22:16] <Aero-Tec> I am glad I do not have to deal with it
[01:22:41] <Aero-Tec> I am the head honcho lol
[01:22:59] <Tom_itx> the only honcho?
[01:23:01] <Aero-Tec> can have a face to face with him any time I want lol
[01:23:06] <Aero-Tec> lol
[01:23:12] <KimK> "It's good to be the king" --Mel Brooks
[01:23:15] <Aero-Tec> yea the only one
[01:23:39] <Gensor> kim: Im mentally challanged and am not a EE. can you help define the circuit for the challened. Thanks!
[01:23:43] <Aero-Tec> I am the one and only
[01:24:09] <Aero-Tec> I work alone
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[01:24:34] <Aero-Tec> the down side is if I do not do it it done not get done
[01:24:49] <Aero-Tec> does
[01:25:05] <Aero-Tec> the upside
[01:25:31] <Aero-Tec> no one can wreck things and I do not argue with anyone
[01:26:11] <Aero-Tec> no gov labor guys
[01:26:25] <Aero-Tec> or any other hassle
[01:26:35] <Aero-Tec> small shop
[01:26:36] <KimK> Gensor: The hall effect outputs (there are probably three?) are likely to be pull down outputs (like a switch closure to ground). So you need a pullup resistor or an LED/resistor combo to see if anything is happening. Does that help?
[01:26:55] <elmo401> soo... no GibbsCAM people? http://www.gibbscam.com/ I have spoken to a few programmers at work and they claim it to be more advanced then MasterCAM.
[01:26:57] <Aero-Tec> digi key is out of them
[01:27:00] <elmo401> my new place uses Gibbs
[01:27:34] <Gensor> kim: 5v->4700ohm->led->outputpin
[01:28:07] <Aero-Tec> anyone know a good place to get the gear tooth sensors?
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[01:28:34] <Aero-Tec> digi key will have them in 3 months
[01:28:54] <Aero-Tec> was hoping to get them sooner
[01:29:11] <KimK> Gensor: Correct. Provided that if you disconnect the LED from the output pin and connect it to ground that the LED lights up. Otherwise the LED is in backwards and you won't see anything.
[01:30:54] <Gensor> kim: excellent work instruction
[01:32:17] <KimK> Gensor: Thanks. Seeing any blinking as you rotate the shaft?
[01:33:10] <KimK> It should be obvious, maybe 8 or 16 divisions, easy to spot.
[01:33:42] <elmo401> the new place has larger machines but less complicated work (well, my quick tour kinda revealed that.) my current place is aviation parts, many funky 3D profiles and tight tolerances, this new place is, well, less in the 3D ;)
[01:34:23] <KimK> Gensor: Actually coarser than that even, more like 1/3 on 2/3 off (or vice-versa) with each lead shifted 120 degrees.
[01:35:12] <Aero-Tec> Avago ATS667LSGTN-T
[01:35:33] <Aero-Tec> is this the best sensor to use?
[01:36:14] <KimK> Avago, aren't they related to HP somehow?
[01:36:43] <KimK> Or am I thinking of somebody else?
[01:38:13] <Aero-Tec> http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
[01:38:34] <Aero-Tec> here is a writeup about using it
[01:38:51] <Aero-Tec> thing is digi key is out of them
[01:39:19] <Aero-Tec> 3 months before they will be in stock again
[01:39:27] <Aero-Tec> so they tell me
[01:40:06] <Aero-Tec> would like to use them or something better
[01:41:37] <KimK> Well, there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat. There might be a similar part in stock with just a little bit different mounting or something. Or you could use a rotary encoder if you have a place to mount it. Maybe some other ways too.
[01:43:27] <KimK> Some people have painted white/black stripes on their lathe spindle pulley. Many tricks available.
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[01:46:59] <KimK> A rotary encoder of some kind is best (highest resolution) but there can be no good place to mount one sometimes. The "gear teeth" encoder Jon showed is lower resolution than a rotary encoder, but probably adequate, and can solve some kinds of mounting issues. White/black paint and optical pickups is easy to do, but it's low-res, and can get dirty and need cleaning or re-do.
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[01:48:31] <elmo401> our rotary encoder uses an XL belt driven 1:1 from the spindle.
[01:49:31] <KimK> elmo401: That's an excellent way to do it. It does require some forethought from the manufacturer, though.
[01:51:42] <elmo401> many of our machines are like that. different manufacturers, too.
[01:52:05] <Gensor> kim: no pulses with full rotation, will try to do a pull down version
[01:53:56] <KimK> Gensor: I'm confused. What did you try first and what are you trying second? I thought you were already trying a pulldown version.
[01:56:31] <Gensor> kim: resistor was connected the +5, now am trying with res connected to ground
[01:59:45] <Gensor> hmmmm... 7 wires left, could one or many be additional grounds needed for the hall?
[01:59:55] <KimK> Gensor: Well, that would be unusual but possible. That's a pullup version. In that case, connect the LED/resistor so that if the LED lead (loose end) is connected to +5 instead of the output lead, the LED will light up. Otherwise LED's backwards, you won't see anything etc.
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[02:01:27] <Gensor> some light up... but no flashing with full rotation
[02:02:07] <Gensor> so the hall is 3 sets of pairs more than likely? maybe I trashed the circuit
[02:02:27] <KimK> Gensor: Yes, it is possible that the Halls have their own +V, -V. The outputs at minimum are A, B, C. If it also had !A, !B, !C that would make 7, but let's not jump to conclusions.
[02:03:47] <KimK> It could also be A, B, C, D, E, F. That's less likely, but possible.
[02:03:56] <Gensor> well, tomorrow or later I will test pull up and pull down with an auxilary ground scenario and see if something flashes
[02:04:43] <KimK> Good find on that index pulse, BTW. Was it hard to spot?
[02:04:56] <KimK> (Once you knew where to look, I mean?)
[02:04:58] <Gensor> no bad
[02:06:31] <Gensor> I had another pair for reference on brightness, however the single tick per revolution was about 1/10 as bright as the reference, I was more confident using a pair of LED's though wired opposing eachother
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[02:15:32] <Gensor> kim: there is documentation that indicates the hall is active for a partial secon on startup
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[02:18:29] <Gensor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/granite_devices/38111-sanyo_denki_p5_motor_pinout.html
[02:30:28] <KimK> Gensor: I see that the PDF shows: U-Black/Green- A V-Black/Blue-B W-Black/Red-C so that should help.
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[02:36:54] <jdhNC> anyone know if a jet 9x20 would be a good CNC candidate?
[02:37:10] <Tom_itx> i think jet are decent
[02:37:19] <Tom_itx> i was looking at one a while back
[02:37:23] <Tom_itx> not sure what model
[02:37:56] <Tom_itx> Y is one you always want more of
[02:38:02] <Tom_itx> and seldom get
[02:39:07] <jdhNC> seems like you would be better off by making a replacement slide/tool holder?
[02:39:24] <Gensor> Kim: what is meant by "combined" encoder/commutation output", and is commutation the same as hall?
[02:39:26] <jdhNC> on pretty much any lathe?
[02:43:27] <KimK> Gensor: Yes, commutation is the job or task that the Hall-effect detectors (a type of magnetic field detector) are there to do.
[02:44:27] <Gensor> kim: the link says "Some Sanyo Denki motors have a "combined" encoder/commutation output, where the commutation signals are output for about a second after power is applied to the encoder, then the outputs are switched to the encoder signals."
[02:44:36] <nicko> ello all
[02:44:51] <nicko> anyone here know much about installing EMC on Solid state drives ?
[02:47:39] <KimK> Gensor: That would argue for a separate power for the Halls, although I'm not sure there would be a great deal of power saved by cutting them off. The encoder would be higher res than the Halls though, and that's a good thing.
[02:47:46] <cradek> I used a CF-IDE adapter on my mill
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[02:55:01] <Gensor> kim: hmmmmmm ive tried pull up and down while and searching for a second ground, then tested all at the same time trying to see if things behaved differently for the first second. all-in-all no blinking led's
[02:55:29] <Connor> jdhNC: I got my mill Friday.
[02:56:06] <jdhNC> cool, open it up yet?
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[02:56:16] <jdhNC> easy to move around
[02:56:19] <jdhNC> ?
[02:56:23] <Connor> Chuckle.. Opened, dude, it's already on the stand and broken.
[02:56:33] <jdhNC> heh, broken?
[02:56:34] <Connor> broke in
[02:56:35] <Connor> not broken.
[02:56:50] <KimK> Gensor: OK. If there's a separate power lead for the Halls, then the Halls may all be dead (as in lacking power) anyway.
[02:58:01] <Connor> I have a little 2 to 3" step to get into my shop.. The mill was on a pallet in a crate.. so, I torn down the crate.. and the was able to slide the bottom of the crate into the shop .. then I used my Engine hoist to raise it up and sit it on the stand.
[02:58:12] <Aero-Tec> need to edit a file
[02:58:18] <Aero-Tec> can not su
[02:58:36] <jdhNC> I hope to never have need for an engine hoist... can I pick it up by hand?
[02:58:49] <Connor> if you take it apart..
[02:58:51] <Aero-Tec> the rtapi file is read only
[02:58:54] <Connor> I didn't want to try.. Bad back.
[02:59:01] <Connor> and expensive machine and all.
[02:59:08] <jdhNC> what's it weigh?
[02:59:09] <KimK> Gensor: If we assume that the extra power lead is not the previously mentioned Black/Green, Black/Blue, Black/Red, what does that leave us?
[02:59:23] <jdhNC> can't be that much?
[02:59:39] <Connor> Shipping weight said 349 or so.. I think the mill is around 256lbs.
[02:59:49] <jdhNC> more than I can lift
[02:59:56] <Aero-Tec> what is the SU password for a live cd install
[02:59:57] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Ubuntu uses sudo instead of su. Or for graphical apps, you can use gksu.
[03:00:17] <Connor> Yea, I wouldn't recommend trying it..
[03:00:21] <Aero-Tec> ok, so how?
[03:00:31] <Connor> and I don't think your suppose to two-man lift it either (using the bed).. It probably wouldn't be good for it.. I.E. bend or warp it.
[03:00:33] <Aero-Tec> and do I need a pass word?
[03:01:05] <jdhNC> guess I can make something to lift it
[03:01:17] <Connor> The truck driver was nice enough to use his pallet jack and bring it up my driveway. I helped push.
[03:01:32] <jdhNC> both parts on one pallet?
[03:01:33] <Connor> and even waited till I unboxed the stand.. Which had no damage.
[03:02:04] <Connor> stand strapped to top of crate. (in cardboard box)
[03:02:21] <KimK> Aero-Tec: for example, if you wanted to edit a root file with vim, you might say, "sudo vim filename". Or to use gedit, say, "gksu gedit filename". Either way it will ask you for your password (as the initial installer, you are an authorized su user, others you have to add manually.)
[03:02:24] <Aero-Tec> KimK: never heard of gksu, also whats the best way to sudo?
[03:02:44] <Connor> I didn't know this, but, the mill only goes 1/2 speed in reverse direction.
[03:03:01] <jdhNC> it only works in low? or just a different range?
[03:03:08] <Aero-Tec> ok
[03:03:18] <Connor> Just 1/2 speed. works in low and high. but half the RPM.
[03:03:21] <Connor> kinda strange.
[03:03:37] <Aero-Tec> so what if I wanted to use the text file editor in the GUI?
[03:03:48] <Aero-Tec> I have the file open
[03:03:59] <Aero-Tec> do I close it and open it some other way?
[03:04:05] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Usually just open a terminal. Or you can change screens with Ctrl-Alt-F1 through F6. Ctrl-Alt-F7 will get you back to the desktop.
[03:04:35] <Aero-Tec> will try it
[03:04:36] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[03:04:42] <Connor> In the manual.. the tell you to put the machine in low, run it @ 600RPM for 10 minutes, then at 1000RPM for 10 more minutes, then 2200RPM for 10 more.. then 1000 in reverse...
[03:05:00] <KimK> If it's a root file, you'll probably have to close it and re-open it with your sudo'd app.
[03:05:07] <jdhNC> until you break the gear and put in a belt replacement
[03:05:08] <Connor> never tell you to take it to high gear for the 2200RPM, and you can't get 1000 RPM in Reverse on low.
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[03:05:51] <Connor> I think I'm going to do allot of those mods Hoss did.. Belt drive, new bearings,
[03:06:30] <jdhNC> I'm going to stick steppers on teh stock lead screws and try it as-is
[03:06:32] <Connor> I'm debating about direct drive vs in-direct... I want my Y stepper to be on the back.. but I have the machine up against the wall (with a few inches of room)
[03:07:01] <Connor> The screws have a little bit of backlash..
[03:07:07] <KimK> Aero-Tec: BTW, I use terminal all the time, so one of the first things I do on a new install is hold Ctrl and drag a copy of the "terminal" icon up to the top taskbar, so it's handy.
[03:07:09] <jdhNC> don't you need 30" of space behind it according to the manual? :)
[03:07:18] <Connor> Umm.. Yea..
[03:07:36] <Connor> So, Indirect for Y, Direct for Z, Not decided about the X..
[03:08:36] <Connor> The Chip guard has a kill switch in it.. if you swing it out of the way.. it kills the machine..
[03:08:59] <Connor> and, that switch they have on that thing.. is waked.. I don't like it.
[03:09:08] <jdhNC> bypass it
[03:09:17] <Connor> Chip gaurd? yea..
[03:09:34] <Connor> It'll get reworked.
[03:10:05] <Connor> Okay, so, I have a question. I want a lathe chuck that I can use on the R8 spindle
[03:10:15] <KimK> Gensor: I see that the PDF diagram says +A, +B, +C. So if we further assumed that the wires that are paired with the above are -A, -B, -C, then what does that leave us for remaining wires?
[03:10:27] <Connor> Any idea where to find something like that?
[03:11:12] <jdhNC> got a lathe?
[03:11:16] <Connor> No.
[03:11:21] <Connor> That's why I want it. :)
[03:11:40] <cradek> you'll probably have to make it
[03:11:45] <Aero-Tec> the dosu is to run a program in su mode
[03:12:03] <Aero-Tec> what it the program is running and I want to su
[03:12:06] <KimK> Aero-Tec: sudo, yes
[03:12:10] <Gensor> kim: 7 wires with no home right now
[03:12:32] <Aero-Tec> also when I su it asks for pass word
[03:12:50] <Aero-Tec> I entered the pass word I entered when setting it up
[03:13:05] <Aero-Tec> it says not the right password
[03:13:10] <Aero-Tec> so whats up
[03:13:14] <KimK> You can open another one with sudo if the app is that kind. Some apps you can only open one of at a time.
[03:13:48] <Aero-Tec> why is the pass word I used to set it up not working for the su command?
[03:14:00] <jdhNC> wonder if you could get a big boring head or something and mount the lathe chuck to it
[03:14:26] <KimK> I don't know, it should want your user password, whatever you said when you installed. Do you have caps lock pushed? I thought it would warn about caps lock, though.
[03:14:51] <Connor> Or perhaps a chuck that'll go on a arbor...
[03:15:07] <Aero-Tec> I tried that thinking the same thing
[03:15:14] <Aero-Tec> caps did not help at all
[03:15:59] <jdhNC> only ones I've seen are bolt-on so they have the through hole
[03:17:05] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Do you have your install set to ask for a password on bootup, or just log you in directly?
[03:17:23] <Aero-Tec> directly
[03:17:39] <Aero-Tec> was no need for password for startup
[03:17:46] <Aero-Tec> one man show here
[03:17:56] <jdhNC> connor: http://cgi.ebay.com/160599405956
[03:18:00] <KimK> OK. I was going to suggest rebooting to see what happens next, but nevermind.
[03:18:27] <Connor> Yup. that's what I want. :)
[03:18:43] <Aero-Tec> so did I mess up doing that?
[03:18:54] <Aero-Tec> lock myself out somehow?
[03:19:51] <KimK> No, I don't think so. Wait, is this 10.04 or 8.04?
[03:20:02] <Aero-Tec> 10.04
[03:20:12] <KimK> OK.
[03:20:32] <Aero-Tec> I am using the text editor
[03:20:49] <Aero-Tec> not the fancy word processor
[03:21:38] <Aero-Tec> I could try to root
[03:22:02] <KimK> What happens if you click on System / Administration / Update Manager? Try to do an Update and see what happens with passwords.
[03:22:05] <Aero-Tec> but if su will not take my password I guess root will not
[03:22:29] <Aero-Tec> it is not connected to the net right now
[03:22:50] <Aero-Tec> I need to setup a network to them
[03:22:53] <KimK> Oh, OK. Wait, that shouldn't matter (I hope).
[03:22:58] <Aero-Tec> but I can try it
[03:23:02] <KimK> Try it anyway.
[03:23:09] <Aero-Tec> will do
[03:23:48] <KimK> All I want to do is get it to ask you for your password by a different path.
[03:28:02] <Aero-Tec> it worked
[03:28:07] <Aero-Tec> not the update
[03:28:13] <Aero-Tec> but it took my code
[03:28:44] <Aero-Tec> the update did the error as there was/is no net
[03:29:04] <KimK> OK, great, maybe do some updating first? I know there were a lot of changes and the 10.04 ISO is up to 10.04.02 now, I think.
[03:29:24] <Aero-Tec> also tried the terminal su and still no work
[03:29:31] <KimK> Ubuntu's ISO, I mean.
[03:29:38] <KimK> Oh, still no-go?
[03:30:13] <KimK> OK, try this, open a terminal and say, "passwd yourusername"
[03:30:25] <Aero-Tec> I would have to connect it
[03:30:34] <KimK> Where yourusername is whatever your user name is.
[03:31:04] <Aero-Tec> ok
[03:31:36] <KimK> It should take you through a password-change dialog, what's your old PW, new PW, new PW 2nd time, etc.
[03:32:02] <Aero-Tec> cool
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[03:34:16] <KimK> I don't remember, it might be "finicky", it wants so-many characters, cant use a PW you've used before, etc. Have to use letters numbers and punct? I don't remember how "fussy" it is.
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[03:35:22] <KimK> I think just give it whatever it wants and as soon as things are back on track you can go back in as root and set it to whatever you like.
[03:36:32] <KimK> But you probably want to get those updates sooner rather than later. It's about a CD worth, so I hope you've got a good connection there.
[03:36:54] <Aero-Tec> I have a good connection
[03:37:08] <KimK> OK, good.
[03:37:20] <Gensor> kim: pretty sure there not a seperate 5v
[03:37:33] <Aero-Tec> can I download it once and save it to disk and use it on other computers?
[03:38:00] <Aero-Tec> I did su my username
[03:38:06] <Aero-Tec> it worked
[03:38:23] <Aero-Tec> but then it still only opens file in read only
[03:40:14] <KimK> Yes, there's a way to download like that, I forgot how it works, maybe check http://help.ubuntu.com/ and look for updating a PC that is not connected to the internet? Also you might be able to DL the Ubuntu 10.04.02 ISO and get most of the changes from that?
[03:40:15] <Aero-Tec> how on earth do I edit the rtapi.conf file?
[03:40:24] <Aero-Tec> it is owned by root
[03:41:07] <Aero-Tec> last time I did this I logged in as root on the 8 version
[03:41:26] <KimK> like I said, "gksu gedit filename" or "sudo vim filename" is the way to do it.
[03:41:49] <KimK> gksu for GUI apps and sudo for terminal apps
[03:42:16] <Aero-Tec> last time I did this I logged in as root on the 8 version
[03:42:17] <KimK> although many GUI apps will accept sudo as well
[03:42:57] <Aero-Tec> will try it your way
[03:43:04] <KimK> You logged in as root? What, your user name was root? 8.04 allowed that?
[03:43:20] <Aero-Tec> so how would I log in as root with the auto login?
[03:43:42] <Aero-Tec> it did, was not easy but I did it
[03:43:51] <Aero-Tec> wished I remembered how
[03:44:00] <KimK> I don't think you can auto-log-in as root. At least I hope you can't. Yikes!
[03:44:33] <Aero-Tec> someone told me the root pass word for it
[03:44:49] <KimK> Well, if it would take "root" as a user name, I don't know what to say then.
[03:44:56] <Aero-Tec> it can be done if you know how
[03:45:39] <KimK> Ha, like carrying a beat-up credit card to slip between the door frame, lol?
[03:46:42] <KimK> Well, I hope that doesn't work after all the updates are properly applied, anyway.
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[03:49:35] <KimK> Here's a well-known cartoon about sudo. Apologies to all those who have seen it before.
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[03:50:04] <KimK> http://xkcd.com/149/
[03:53:13] <KimK> Here's a little more helpful explanation of sudo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudo
[03:55:29] <KimK> Or these: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sudoers https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
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[04:15:50] <Gensor> kim: 6 wires left, the heavy gage black wire is grounded to the servo frame. Thanks and good night
[04:16:28] <KimK> Gensor: hey, that's progress at least. OK, goodnight, more later.
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[06:09:55] <nicko> ello
[06:10:08] <nicko> PnCConf anyone ?
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[07:12:32] <nicko> ello all again
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[15:28:28] <jdhNC> http://wilmington.craigslist.org/tls/2436171990.html any thoughts?
[15:28:56] <awallin_> stand looks nice :)
[15:29:59] <Connor> Looks a bit Rusty.
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[15:30:22] <jdhNC> looks a bit better in person, but a little rusty. Everything seems to move well
[15:30:54] <Connor> What do you do for the rust? You can't sandblast it, that will mess up the ways and stuff... Right ?
[15:31:17] <Connor> I have a little Router Table that's gotten some rust on the top.. I need to clean off..
[15:31:35] <jdhNC> phosphoric acid maybe?
[15:32:01] <jdhNC> I think most of this will clean off pretty well.
[15:32:19] <Connor> $400 isn't bad...
[15:32:20] <jdhNC> 9x20 is about the biggest thing I have room for.
[15:32:24] <Connor> if you've seen it and it runs.
[15:32:59] <jdhNC> runs fine, lots of tooling, lots of chucks/rests/etc
[15:33:14] <Connor> Tooling might be worth the $400.00 alone..
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[15:38:04] <syyl> 9x20 is a nice size to work with
[15:38:24] <syyl> and i bet, most of the rust can be wipped of with a rag or fine steel wool
[15:39:19] <archivist_emc> or a scraper if bad
[15:40:53] <syyl> yep
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[15:41:38] <archivist_emc> looks a heavy chuck with a lot of overhang, may get some chatter
[15:42:37] <Loetmichel> hi!
[15:43:00] <jdhNC> that's one of 6 chucks, it's huge
[15:43:14] <syyl> 6 chucks?
[15:43:22] <syyl> they are almost worth 400 bucks :D
[15:43:51] <Loetmichel> cam someone help me: I need a plt or DXF 2d of a Gear with 500 inwards teeth and 490mm diamater (about module1)
[15:44:12] <Loetmichel> my gear generator soft goes only up to 255 teeth
[15:44:38] <Loetmichel> (want to motorize my wife's rolling chair)
[15:45:31] <jdhNC> how about a hub motor?
[15:45:46] <Loetmichel> motors already here
[15:46:04] <Loetmichel> two times 2,2kW brusless ;-)
[15:46:15] <Loetmichel> (LITTTLE oversized ;-)
[15:47:08] <Loetmichel> i only need 2 gears for the rims of the wheels so i can step down the 5000 rpm of the motors to convenient 10kmh maximum ;-)
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[15:48:04] <Loetmichel> direct coupling, so the 8 teeth gear on the motor can stay coupled in even if my wife moves by hand
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[15:48:55] <archivist_emc> you still have the motor in a low gear wont be easy to turn by hand
[15:50:13] <Loetmichel> it will
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[15:50:47] <Loetmichel> tested that already, the motors have nearly zero "rastmoment" means the dont "click" from one step to the next
[15:51:36] <Loetmichel> and she will not move so fast by hand that the generated voltage willstatr to charge the battery ;-)
[15:51:37] <archivist_emc> last time I designed an inside gear profile I used the gearing mate in solidworks to "generate" the profile
[15:51:54] <Loetmichel> archivist: i am not rockefeller by name
[15:52:07] <Loetmichel> i have only corelDraw to construct ;-)
[15:52:20] <KimK> Loetmichel: An 8-tooth gear? I thought there was some technical reason why "proper" gears had to have a minimum of 10 (or was it 11?) teeth?
[15:52:39] <Loetmichel> KimK: yes, wear for starters
[15:52:50] <archivist_emc> KimK, black and decker used 4 teeth
[15:52:55] <Loetmichel> but i have a cnc mill, so i can rebuild the gears ;-)
[15:53:36] <Loetmichel> and 4.4kW is MORE than enogh to cope with some gear losses ;-)
[15:53:41] <archivist_emc> Loetmichel, how are you going to cut an inner gear
[15:53:50] <KimK> I don't know if I'd hold up Black & Decker as an example of "proper", lol. Now, Milwaukee, maybe.
[15:53:58] <archivist_emc> :)
[15:54:01] <Loetmichel> flat, with a 0,6mm mill
[15:54:26] <archivist_emc> ew, how many years cutting time
[15:55:12] <Loetmichel> oh, that is relatively fast: last time i had about 10 minutes for a 20 teeth module1 in 4mm aluminium
[15:55:25] <archivist_emc> width of gear face
[15:55:56] <Loetmichel> and in PC or POM it is even faster ;-)
[15:56:31] <Loetmichel> archivist_emc: width of WHAT?
[15:56:51] <Loetmichel> english is not my native language
[15:57:10] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: I think he's referring to your 4mm material thickness.
[15:57:15] <syyl> a module 1 gear, that can cope with 2,2kW with a speed that low has to be pretty broad
[15:57:17] <KimK> Loetmichel: What is your preferred OS?
[15:58:14] <Loetmichel> XP
[15:58:20] <Loetmichel> ah
[15:58:22] <Loetmichel> ok
[15:58:53] <Loetmichel> last gears i cut for the CNC of ma kolleague:
[15:59:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11714
[15:59:19] <Loetmichel> (to get the stepper to 100steps/mm straight)
[15:59:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11711
[15:59:43] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: That's pretty cool.
[15:59:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11651
[16:00:01] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Did it introduce significant backlash?
[16:00:11] <Loetmichel> non measureable
[16:00:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11648
[16:01:52] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: How did you plan the tooth profile? Did you do the math or did you just approximate it?
[16:01:53] <Loetmichel> the material there was 1/4" pertinax (paper infused with resin)
[16:02:11] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: i have a tool called gear generator
[16:02:24] <Loetmichel> but it has a hard limit at 255 teeth :-(
[16:02:53] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: I think I heard of it. Isn't it an add-on for solidworks or somesuch?
[16:03:00] <Loetmichel> no, standalone
[16:03:17] <Loetmichel> http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html
[16:03:24] <Loetmichel> you can buy it here
[16:04:32] <KimK> Loetmichel: OK. You said you only have CorelDraw, may I recommend that you get LibreCAD? It is the newly available free/open fork of Qcad. Uses DXF (2000?) as its native format. Available for Windows here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/librecad/files/
[16:04:55] <Loetmichel> KimK: why should I
[16:05:02] <Loetmichel> 2d is ok on corel
[16:05:14] <Loetmichel> and 3d isnt aviable in small budget
[16:05:21] <Loetmichel> AND easy to use
[16:05:41] <KimK> Also available for OSX, same place. Linux is a little more troublesome, have to build, no PPAs yet, maybe soon.
[16:07:12] <KimK> Because then you could design your own gear in DXF, which was what you originally wanted to do, I thought. Just design one tooth or several, and duplicate and rotate.
[16:07:51] <jdhNC> do it in draftsight with an array
[16:08:29] <archivist_emc> you need a gear mate to rotate the two parts in sync to generate the form
[16:08:32] <KimK> Ha, if you're not a free/open purist, that works too.
[16:08:58] <archivist_emc> or know the maths and do it in gcode
[16:09:54] <KimK> There you go, archivist_emc has a good suggestion, skip the DXF and go right to EMC2 g-code.
[16:09:55] <Loetmichel> KimK: the tooth for is dependant on the diameter of the Gear
[16:10:28] <Loetmichel> so no chance to generate a gear with less teeth and then just "duplicate" it with bigger diameter
[16:10:33] <KimK> for = form?
[16:10:42] <Loetmichel> yes
[16:10:53] <Loetmichel> <- sausage fingers ;-)
[16:11:17] <KimK> You are correct, you must design one tooth "properly". Then you can duplicate and rotate.
[16:11:54] <KimK> But archivist_emc's suggestion saves you a step. Or two!
[16:11:56] <archivist_emc> I have done external generation in gcode
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[16:12:27] <Loetmichel> yes. but i am electronican, my "tabellenbuch Metall" is somewhere whrere i dont find it and to design a gear myself from scratch is to much risk of error in this case
[16:12:32] <salvarane> hello
[16:13:13] <KimK> You can get from DXF to gcode if you had the DXF?
[16:13:24] <jdhNC> I could
[16:13:32] <Loetmichel> archivist: i cant because i have to mill the big inwards Gear in 10 parts and the glue/screw the parts to a whole gear
[16:13:45] <archivist_emc> Loetmichel, its simple, you only need to follow the 8 tooth form to generate the internal gear, not the 8 tooth gear is rotating
[16:13:50] <Loetmichel> my mill can only move 200mm by 110mm by 110mm
[16:14:02] <archivist_emc> not/note
[16:14:18] <KimK> What's the ID/OD of this gear?
[16:14:34] <Loetmichel> so i have to desing the parts bevorehand with interconnects to each other
[16:14:35] <KimK> Hi salvarane, hang on just a moment
[16:14:47] <archivist_emc> but give up now as your width and materials are not up to 2kw
[16:14:50] <Loetmichel> mounting circle is 550mm diamater
[16:15:02] <Loetmichel> inside this: any Diameter you want ;-)
[16:15:27] <Loetmichel> archivist: 2kw ohna wheelchair is not recommendet
[16:15:40] <KimK> Exactly 550mm on the mounting screws?
[16:15:53] <KimK> How many mounting screws?
[16:16:05] <Loetmichel> the motors a jus so big because the are modeling brushless, and not buuild for more than 6 minutes of continous power
[16:16:11] <salvarane> Yes I saw your message Thanks but I compiled Heekcad unfortunately the library opencascade not link the HeeksCAD object, the errors are /usr/local/src/heekscad/src/HeeksCAD.cpp:851: undefined reference to `HGear::ReadFromXMLElement(TiXmlElement*)'
[16:16:19] <Loetmichel> i WILL limit the ESCs to about 300W
[16:16:34] <Loetmichel> KimK: 5
[16:17:31] <Loetmichel> and no, have to measure it exactly, just a moment ;-)
[16:17:51] <KimK> Five mounting screws is inconvenient for putting together (at least five?) short arcs, did you plan on a sub-plate?
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[16:18:51] <archivist_emc> with a person being involved I do believe construction needs to be of a higher quality
[16:19:05] <Loetmichel> its 254mm from the center of the hub ti the chenter of the 5 Hand bar mounting screws
[16:20:24] <Loetmichel> KimK: i planed on 10 short arcs, overlapped some 30% and then mounted every second joint and screwed and glued the other 5
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[16:20:50] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[16:21:14] <Loetmichel> archivist: its just a test if its possibe to build some means of propulsion into the wheelchair and NOT get it unlauadable in the car
[16:22:16] <Loetmichel> cause you CAN buy electric wheelchairs.... with about half a ton and to big to handle alone by handicapped (hip joint worn beyond repair) person
[16:22:46] <Loetmichel> so i want to build her a lightweight propilson on her folding chair:
[16:23:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9015
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[16:23:08] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9059
[16:23:42] <IchGuckLive> IM DONE !! FIRST Light with the Pendant -> http://kleinwindkrafttechnik.de/pendant_V1.jpg
[16:24:18] <salvarane> Ok I opened a bugzilla for this imprevist, thanks
[16:25:23] <KimK> Your radius of 254mm is exactly 10 inches. You know, if you had a friend with even a slightly bigger machine, all your problems would go away. Even a Bridgeport-2-sized machine has 15 inches of Y-travel. You could make half the ring, flip it over, and do the other half. No segments, do it all in one piece, one solid ring!
[16:25:41] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: do you now where i can bay engraving sheet material 2colors for the Text layer in Germany
[16:26:16] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: every Mister minit ;-)
[16:26:28] <Loetmichel> but beware of the prices ;-)
[16:26:32] <KimK> IchGuckLive: At a plastics supply wholesaler?
[16:27:07] <IchGuckLive> i think i will try to do it with the laser
[16:28:23] <Loetmichel> how much power?
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[16:28:38] <IchGuckLive> 250W Co2
[16:28:47] <IchGuckLive> but thats way to mutch
[16:28:56] <Loetmichel> try 0,5mm aluminium sheet with black color on it
[16:29:02] <willburrrr2003> Good Morning all, I was able to get emc working enough to make my first usable part in my now setup maching room in the garage :D I made a spindle encoder so that I can get speed RPM's
[16:29:12] <IchGuckLive> i do not now if they can put this down to engrave 0.1mm ALU
[16:29:16] <Loetmichel> ant evaporate just the color
[16:29:19] <KimK> willburrrr2003: Congrats!
[16:30:23] <willburrrr2003> Thanks KimK :D i am very happy with my first part, gimme a sec will post link
[16:30:52] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7uj-6KgyE
[16:31:17] <KimK> Uh-oh, what's Sam up to now, lol?
[16:31:45] <skunkworks_> random youtube video
[16:31:50] <skunkworks_> ;)
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[16:33:12] <willburrrr2003> here is my newly made encoder disc , slipped onto the end of the spindle for test fit... http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5265/5826970013_022eb2971b_z.jpg
[16:33:46] <Loetmichel> willburrrr2003: nice
[16:33:48] <willburrrr2003> I started with a 2.5" solid roundstock
[16:34:15] <Loetmichel> made something a while ago out of pertinax fpr a DC servo i never got finished:
[16:34:22] <willburrrr2003> Thanks, it was a heck of a learning experience figuring out the steps to make it, the tooling to use, and finally how to put it all together to make the part
[16:34:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=711
[16:34:41] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=708
[16:34:46] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=705
[16:34:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=702
[16:36:04] <willburrrr2003> Loetmichel, thats pretty cool :)
[16:37:16] <Loetmichel> there is such a inconvenient thing as a clock... one more of my projects i never found time to finish :-(
[16:37:30] <willburrrr2003> Can someone point me to the man pages for setting up a spindle speed encoder? I am having issues finding it in the docs...
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[16:38:08] <West0n> So does anyone here know about using drill rods for linear slides?
[16:38:12] <willburrrr2003> Loetmichel, I have several of those....one was my lathe but it moved steadily forward over last couple years and is now making parts :D
[16:38:22] <West0n> And if linear bearings will bind?
[16:38:49] <Loetmichel> drill rods?
[16:38:52] <Loetmichel> whats that?
[16:40:48] <KimK> willburrrr2003: Try page 225 in the 2.4 Integrator Manual. It should be on your pick menu if you're using the standard install.
[16:41:42] <willburrrr2003> Ok Kimk, will look there :) thanks
[16:43:21] <West0n> Basicaly just ground rods
[16:43:29] <West0n> But for cutting drill bits out of
[16:43:37] <Loetmichel> ah, hardened?
[16:43:49] <Loetmichel> HSS?
[16:44:18] <Loetmichel> should work with ball bearing linear slides
[16:44:26] <Loetmichel> and with the gliding ones
[16:44:50] <Loetmichel> but: stickslip ist a problem of ALL gliding linear bearings
[16:45:36] <willburrrr2003> No go on that section of the integrators manual, all I see there is for setting up a multi phase encoder....
[16:45:43] <West0n> Drill rods are +- 0.013mm
[16:45:46] <Loetmichel> even some niear ball bearings have stick because of the platic rings which remove drit from the slide
[16:45:57] <KimK> West0n: Usually linear slide bars are chrome plated for convenience, otherwise I suspect you'd be wiping down the drill rod with oil all the time. Would catching dust on the oil be a problem?
[16:46:17] <West0n> Its for a 3d printer kimk
[16:46:20] <West0n> So not realy
[16:46:58] <KimK> How would you thread or drill the drill rod for mounting?
[16:47:18] <West0n> Clamps
[16:47:28] <KimK> OK.
[16:47:28] <syyl> normal drill rod isnt hard by default
[16:47:32] <West0n> Look at the reprap mendel-prusa design
[16:47:35] <syyl> can be machined
[16:48:21] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: why are you putting a gear inside the Servo not using a belt system
[16:48:24] <KimK> willburrrr2003: Wasn't that what you wanted?
[16:48:31] <Loetmichel> if it is for a mendel: should work
[16:49:10] <Loetmichel> on a cnc mill : no way because the milling force will bend the rods a little: less accuracy
[16:49:56] <IchGuckLive> timing belt is cheeper then gear systems
[16:50:19] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: that shoud be a drop in replacement for 56mm steppers with integrated electronics: connenct power and step/dir and be happy
[16:50:26] <willburrrr2003> I am not sure, I have a ir led, and an ir photo-transister to generate pulses into my driver card for speed indication so I think I am not multi-phase?, would I set it up like it says for that multi phase encoder?
[16:50:46] <willburrrr2003> and just use one phase?
[16:51:05] <IchGuckLive> all the big mashines are on timing belts between servo and axis
[16:51:14] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: read!
[16:51:22] <Loetmichel> drop in replacement!
[16:51:43] <IchGuckLive> ok its up to you
[16:52:13] <Loetmichel> the painting gives a hint: the case of the "servo" has the same size and mounting holes as a 56mm stepper
[16:52:20] <IchGuckLive> by thill tomorrow
[16:52:21] <Loetmichel> nema xx
[16:52:36] <IchGuckLive> 34 is good enoph for miling steel
[16:53:20] <Loetmichel> i wantoed to sell them for the "hobby mill" users which are tired of step loss
[16:53:55] <IchGuckLive> ir all dependa on the Controll and Driver
[16:54:24] <IchGuckLive> i milled all the pcb with no step loss in 2.5Houres
[16:54:36] <Loetmichel> controller/driver should be INSINDE of the servo
[16:54:46] <IchGuckLive> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/030611193848_EMC2-Pendant_v1_all_pcb.png
[16:54:51] <KimK> willburrrr2003: You only have one detector? Can you add a 2nd one? Well, I guess you don't have to if you don't mind giving up direction detection. OK, "man encoder" and scroll down to "encoder.N.counter-mode" set that to = true.
[16:55:26] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: I have no problems with step loss
[16:55:32] <Loetmichel> but ohters have
[16:55:33] <IchGuckLive> ok
[16:55:49] <Loetmichel> so i wanted to help them
[16:56:02] <IchGuckLive> agree the most of us here dont need this but alot of L297/298 ones do
[16:56:04] <willburrrr2003> KimK, re-read the section and yes that is what I want, now the question is do I need both the Spindle index pulse (once per rev) AND the Phase A pulses? If so I need to modify my encoder wheel to add the index pulse (add extra hole and 2nd pulse input setup)...
[16:57:04] <IchGuckLive> the New TB6560HQ is perfect for no steploss and driver price well below 50Euros for 3Axis
[16:58:31] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: My CNC has L297/298
[16:58:37] <Loetmichel> never had problems witrh step loss
[16:59:03] <Loetmichel> IF you know the linits of your machine and stay well within there is no problem
[16:59:07] <IchGuckLive> mechapro in use i now this is realy good stuff
[16:59:22] <Loetmichel> but the most USERS dont know how to tweak such a system
[16:59:39] <IchGuckLive> therfore is this channel
[16:59:46] <Loetmichel> so i wanted to build a replacement fpr the motors which can be installed by "kefthanders"
[16:59:48] <Loetmichel> left
[17:00:20] <KimK> willburrrr2003: If you add the index pulse, your machine will be repeatable. You could, for example, re-rigid-tap the same hole twice. Otherwise, no. If you add the B phase, your detector can figure out direction, so it can give you true velocity (with a sign). Otherwise it's limited to ABS(velocity).
[17:01:09] <Loetmichel> willburrrr2003: just mount a second IR gate
[17:01:26] <KimK> Loetmichel: And a third, lol!
[17:01:31] <Loetmichel> AND make the holes in the disc 50%
[17:01:38] <Loetmichel> KimK: yes
[17:01:42] <Loetmichel> for index
[17:01:56] <IchGuckLive> by Thanks for all the infos !
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[17:02:13] <Loetmichel> willburrrr2003: for 2 phase index you need 2 IR gates 90° phase shift
[17:02:26] <KimK> Loetmichel: I'm asking willburrrr2003 to do a lot of work. Maybe I should be paying him?
[17:02:30] <Loetmichel> so if one gate is closed the ohter shoud be open and vice versa
[17:02:57] <Loetmichel> KimK: he want to have it perfect, so he has to work for perfect.
[17:03:06] <Loetmichel> why YOU should pay him?
[17:03:23] <Aggrav9d> kimk - i finally ran your code last night. the circles were all perfect, but the arcs were way off.
[17:04:44] <KimK> Actually, A & B won't be always on/off or off/on. Some times they will be on/on or off/off. That's why they call it quadrature, four states.
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[17:06:02] <KimK> Aggrav9d: Great, I was wondering how it would work out. Now, what do you mean about the arcs and circles? Tell us more.
[17:07:14] <Loetmichel> KimK: a/b are 2 square signals with 50% Pulse widh and 90° phase shifted
[17:07:24] <Loetmichel> 2 bit gray code
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[17:07:57] <Loetmichel> so yes, four states
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[17:09:26] <Aggrav9d> kink - http://imgur.com/a/477Rf#Fm2y2
[17:09:36] <KimK> Loetmichel: Correct. And also, you're right, I shouldn't be paying him. It's *his* machine, lol!
[17:09:37] <Loetmichel> if you make the dark/open spaces in the Encoder disc equal width and shift ONE if the two gates 50% of the dot widht you have the desired signal
[17:09:49] <Aggrav9d> the table wasn't perfectly flat, so it fades out on one side.
[17:10:02] <Aggrav9d> also: getting it to start where I wanted? Really annoying.
[17:10:28] <KimK> That's why I added the fixture offset for you.
[17:10:28] Aggrav9d is now known as Aggrav8d
[17:10:43] <willburrrr2003> hmmmm could I just add a single index pulse in line with my phase a holes (resolution)? I just counted holes on my encoder (for resolution) and I have 15... not sure how that happened I took the diameter of the hole path and divided it by 16....?
[17:10:50] <PCW> If 4 counts per spindle turn is enough you need only 2 sensors for A/B/index
[17:11:17] <willburrrr2003> I am hoping I don't have to re-make the encoder....
[17:12:07] <PCW> Well if you dont have index, you would need to add a index track (although this could be simulated in HAL)
[17:12:09] <syyl_> how many pulses/rev has your spindle encoder?
[17:12:30] <Aggrav8d> kimk - once i figured out how to, it wasn't so bad. before that I kept trying to touch off to adjust position.
[17:12:38] <willburrrr2003> I have 15 pulse holes in my encoder
[17:13:00] <skunkworks_> PCW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOi51ogqels
[17:13:35] <syyl_> just for closed loop speed controll, or are you aiming for riggid tapping?
[17:13:46] <willburrrr2003> PCW, I can add an index hole that will pulse once per rev
[17:14:14] <willburrrr2003> Syyl, I am just looking to be able to do threading operations and get speed feedback on screen
[17:15:32] <syyl_> hm, i would be worried, that 15 pulses is not enough for threading
[17:15:40] <PCW> Yeah I think thats all that required for threading (rigid tapping needs quadrature so you can reverse)
[17:17:15] <PCW> 15 should be fine, the maximum deviation from path is roughly proportional to the inverse square of counts and people almost get by with 1 count/turn
[17:18:01] <PCW> skunkworks: Neat
[17:18:03] <skunkworks_> when that low though - be sure to use interpolated postion from the encoder counter.
[17:18:30] <skunkworks_> PCW: seems to work great so far. no phantom trips
[17:18:39] <willburrrr2003> so should I use the 15 pulses per rev as my index pulses, or does the index pulse have to be a single pulse per rev?
[17:18:54] <PCW> Once per rev
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[17:19:27] <willburrrr2003> ok will do, and for the phase a I can double the pulse count to 30 relatively easy
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[17:20:04] <willburrrr2003> Skunkworks, what do you mean using Interpolated position?
[17:20:34] <PCW> I think someone (maybe Andy P) made a synthertic index (as long as you do not need absolute spindle orientation this should be fine)
[17:21:53] <willburrrr2003> PCW, do you mean that he simulated the index by generating pulses inside emc2? and then used the encoder wheel pulses for his phase a?
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[17:24:24] <PCW> Yes, the synthetic index is just a (mod encoder_count) function
[17:24:52] <PCW> Beware that if you stop and start EMC this will fail
[17:25:09] <PCW> so a real index is better
[17:25:45] <cradek> index can't be easily generated with count mod counts-pre-rev in hal, since EMC expects to be able to tell an encoder to reset at index time
[17:25:50] <cradek> -per-
[17:26:35] <PCW> I think maybe this was all put through a comp (count and all)
[17:26:45] <cradek> (or maybe it can if you use two software encoder counters?)
[17:26:59] <cradek> oh sure, you could do it with a custom encoder counter module
[17:27:01] <skunkworks_> willburrrr2003: yes
[17:28:37] <willburrrr2003> ok , sounds like I will re-make my encoder with 30 pulses per rev for Phase A, and an index pulse 1 pulse per rev as well.
[17:29:01] <willburrrr2003> seems like the best way to go to have real live index pulse
[17:29:15] <Loetmichel> *HRHRHRH* ich war grade an der Tanke kippen holen... Hab das richtige feuerzeug gefunden für auf fotos als größenvergleich von kleinteilen: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12064 ;-)
[17:29:34] <Loetmichel> oh sorry
[17:29:50] <willburrrr2003> and I assume I should line up the index pulse with one of the phase A holes?
[17:30:40] <Loetmichel> in english: *Hrhrhrhr* were just at the gas station, buing cigarretes. Found the PERFECT lighter to use as size comparsion fpr small parts in photos: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12064
[17:31:09] <Loetmichel> and the gag: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12067
[17:32:15] <PCW> Not sure how the software encoder handles index some hardware has the option to gate index with A/B or some combination
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[17:38:04] <KimK> Aggrav8d: So what do you think this is telling us about why your machine is not repeatable? You're sure it's not losing steps? If not, it must be "loose", slipping coupler, maybe?
[17:38:57] <KimK> Loetmichel: That's a funny cigarette lighter, good gag.
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[18:08:11] <Aero-Tec> yo
[18:08:25] <Aero-Tec> so a p4 box
[18:08:40] <skunkworks_> is a rectangle..
[18:08:44] <Aero-Tec> what sort of jitter should it get
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[18:08:50] <Aero-Tec> lol
[18:08:55] <Aero-Tec> very funny
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[18:10:08] <archivist_emc> we cannot give specific numbers, too many variables, P4 should be ok though
[18:10:12] <Aero-Tec> i can get as high as around 35K
[18:10:35] <Aero-Tec> with version 10.04
[18:10:36] <KimK> Hi Aero-Tec, have your tweaking efforts made any improvements?
[18:10:45] <Aero-Tec> yes
[18:10:59] <Aero-Tec> down from 182K to 35K
[18:11:06] <Aero-Tec> still high
[18:11:21] <KimK> Hey, that's a big improvement.
[18:11:29] <archivist_emc> my P4 is less than 20k iirc
[18:11:31] <Aero-Tec> as the same model computer running varsion 8 is 12K
[18:12:05] <Aero-Tec> so is there more tweeking I can do?
[18:12:32] <KimK> Do you have a different but compatible video card to try?
[18:12:38] <Aero-Tec> I did the smi mod with the rtapi.conf file
[18:13:14] <KimK> Oh, good, you were able to get in and edit it?
[18:13:25] <Aero-Tec> may have one floating around
[18:13:33] <Aero-Tec> yes
[18:13:47] <Aero-Tec> thanks for your help
[18:14:45] <Aero-Tec> funny thing is one of the computers will not run the jitter program with the rewrite mod done
[18:14:53] <Aero-Tec> runs it fine with out
[18:15:13] <KimK> You bet. Hopefully 10.04 will figure out your new video card by itself, if not ask here for help.
[18:15:23] <Aero-Tec> you click on the jitter test and nothing at all happens
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[18:16:10] <KimK> How about if you say "latency-test" (or whatever it's called) from a terminal?
[18:16:12] <Aero-Tec> so why would the jitter test fail to run with mod?
[18:16:44] <Aero-Tec> have not tried that
[18:16:48] <SWPadnos> rewrite mod?
[18:16:54] <Aero-Tec> I did
[18:16:58] <KimK> I don't know. If anyone knows, jump in.
[18:17:02] <Aero-Tec> then changed it back
[18:17:15] <skunkworks_> I was wondering the same thing...
[18:18:27] <SWPadnos> I believe the HAL latency test is called "latency-test", and it can be run from the command line
[18:18:42] <skunkworks_> cradek: what is the switch time of your probe?
[18:18:43] <SWPadnos> this will show you any error messages
[18:19:12] <skunkworks_> I get pretty close to the same numbers while it is probing fast vs the final probe.
[18:19:31] <skunkworks_> wintin a tenth or two
[18:19:53] <SWPadnos> skunkworks_, what are the fast and slow speeds you're talking about?
[18:19:53] <Aero-Tec> SWPadnos: the rewrite mod is the rewriting of the rtapi.conf file for the smi
[18:20:01] <SWPadnos> Aero-Tec, ah, ok
[18:20:46] <Aero-Tec> so any ideas why it will not run?
[18:20:57] <SWPadnos> no, but a run from the terminal might shed some light ;)
[18:21:04] <skunkworks_> 25 vs .1
[18:21:06] <skunkworks_> ipm
[18:21:10] <Aero-Tec> will do
[18:22:09] <Aero-Tec> do I nned to be in a dir to run it?
[18:22:17] <skunkworks_> hmm - now that I have the probe - I could actually check to see how far off my scaling is.
[18:22:17] <SWPadnos> skunkworks_, are you using Mesa hardware? if so, does it matter? :) (I thought they had some secondary index or special probe input thing)
[18:22:18] <Aero-Tec> or will any dir work?
[18:22:19] <SWPadnos> no
[18:22:35] <SWPadnos> it should work from anywhere, I thikn
[18:22:37] <SWPadnos> think
[18:22:38] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: no - not yet. they tried to work on that but could not get it to work
[18:22:41] <SWPadnos> ah
[18:22:51] <Aero-Tec> ok, thanks
[18:23:06] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: so I am at the mercy of the servo cycle
[18:23:13] <skunkworks_> and switching time
[18:23:14] <SWPadnos> nonetheless, 25 IPM is ~0.4 IPS, which is 4 tenths per millisecond
[18:23:37] <SWPadnos> so the error (or the difference) should never be more than that
[18:23:45] <skunkworks_> heh - I should have done the math.
[18:23:49] <SWPadnos> yep ;)
[18:24:06] <skunkworks_> the module that I have it hooked into is like 25us switchin time
[18:24:10] <skunkworks_> so that really should not matter
[18:24:38] <SWPadnos> no. you have one cycle of jitter, the module response time just adds to the window in which that jitter will matter
[18:25:59] <skunkworks_> It looks good either way - the pobe seems to consistantly trip at +/-.0001
[18:26:19] <SWPadnos> cool
[18:26:25] <skunkworks_> very happy
[18:27:10] <PCW> Some of the fancy (accelerometer+DSP) probrs have long delays (2 mS I believe)
[18:27:17] <PCW> probes
[18:28:15] <skunkworks_> I don't know what is in the actual tip (didn't take it appart) but I think it is just a raw ball and rod setup
[18:28:47] <PCW> So that part is pretty much instantaneous
[18:28:55] <skunkworks_> right
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[18:34:00] <Aero-Tec> it worked
[18:34:05] <Aero-Tec> got the error messages
[18:34:10] <Aero-Tec> will post
[18:34:18] <SWPadnos> cool
[18:38:05] <PCW> Random lazy question: Does EMC actually measure the thread timing in normal operation (not just the latency test)?
[18:38:18] <SWPadnos> sort of
[18:38:41] <Aero-Tec> usb drive is acting up
[18:39:05] <cradek> PCW: you can even plot it with halscope
[18:39:14] <JT-Shop> it would have to measure it to be able to give off the warning about latency
[18:39:16] <SWPadnos> latency?
[18:39:27] <cradek> motion thread actual period
[18:39:29] <SWPadnos> I know you can plot thread execution time, but not latency
[18:39:31] <SWPadnos> right
[18:39:41] <cradek> no, I'm talking about period, not execution time
[18:39:47] <SWPadnos> oh, interesting. is that from motion?
[18:39:48] <PCW> This relates to a question on the forum about the effect of jitter on servo systems, If the actual time is known, the jitter can be "servoed" out
[18:39:51] <cradek> yes
[18:39:54] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[18:40:15] <cradek> PCW: interesting idea
[18:40:18] <davef> It's OT but could somebody please help me get my ubuntu 8.04 LTS back online? I moved my HD to a dinosaur PII yesterday. I can't connect, and Firestarter FW always says eth2 is not ready. Somehow I went from eth0 to eth1 and now I have an eth2. I've tried taking everything out of /etc/network/interfaces, rebooting, etc. Somehow eth2, which is never ready, persists.
[18:41:02] <cradek> long int this_run = (long int)(now - last);
[18:41:03] <cradek> emcmot_hal_data->last_period_ns = this_run * 1e6 / cpu_khz;
[18:41:35] <PCW> so instead of commanded position, you use extrapolated commanded position
[18:41:42] <cradek> davef: check /etc/udev/rules.d/*persistent-net*
[18:42:11] <SWPadnos> pcw, yes, in theory. also, PID could (in theory) use the actual period in its calculations
[18:42:22] <cradek> yeah that's what I was picturing.
[18:42:28] <cradek> important for derivs
[18:42:29] <davef> cradek, OK thanks.
[18:42:56] <SWPadnos> though I think the period value passed to every HAL function is the actual ideal period (which may differ from the requested period due to clock source limitations), not the actual
[18:43:12] <SWPadnos> ... measured period
[18:43:52] <SWPadnos> so, on another topic, you can buy a complete 20"+ multi-touch PC for less than an iPad
[18:44:09] -!- Techrat has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[18:44:35] <SWPadnos> I only mention this because I know someone who recently purchased 3 iPads for use in kiosks, which seems like it was a stupid thing to do
[18:44:41] <cradek> SWPadnos: I have equal use for both
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[18:44:56] <SWPadnos> hey, a touch computer could actually be useful :)
[18:45:06] <cradek> yeah, in my pocket it sure is
[18:45:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:45:15] <SWPadnos> I don't want to know ;)
[18:45:31] <cradek> why you'd make that same thing too big to fit in my pocket and expect me to pay even more, I dunno
[18:45:44] <andypugh> Well, colour me "baffled" http://imagebin.org/158096
[18:45:45] <SWPadnos> plus a subscription
[18:46:09] <andypugh> cradek: iPad?
[18:46:32] <cradek> and oh yeah - take out the phone part to make useless for navigation etc
[18:46:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:47:20] <andypugh> Anyway, anyone got any ideas how I have screwd up my Lathe?
[18:47:38] <cradek> I am having trouble guessing what you want me to see in this image
[18:47:48] <andypugh> g0x17, doesn't?
[18:47:56] <andypugh> nor does G0z40
[18:48:19] <davef> cradek there are entries for eth1 and eth2 there, as well as eth0. Is it safe to just delete them?
[18:48:31] <cradek> yes delete them all whenever you move to different hardware
[18:49:05] <davef> OK I'll try that. Thanks.
[18:49:55] <andypugh> I thought that a G0 move should always end with the DRO showing the number that you type in?
[18:50:57] <andypugh> It was like this last night, I have rebooted since. Seems i have a sticky problem.
[18:50:57] <cradek> andypugh: I'm not seeing the problem either
[18:51:44] <andypugh> You mean you don't see that I have a problem, or you don't see what the problem is?
[18:52:01] <cradek> I don't see the cause of the behavior, studying the active gcodes
[18:52:52] <jdhNC> is R the spindle?
[18:52:54] <cradek> also I shudder to see that R: on that DRO tab means both rotation and radius
[18:53:14] <andypugh> No idea what R is, I hadn't seen it before.
[18:53:29] <cradek> top one is DTG Radius, the bottom one is G54 Rotation
[18:53:34] <andypugh> FWIW touch-off of Z to 0 leaves the DRO reading -10.235
[18:54:00] <cradek> that's the "amount of confusion"
[18:54:08] <JT-Shop> what happens when you issue G55
[18:54:15] <cradek> run machine/emc status and see if you see that number anywhere
[18:54:55] <cradek> that behavior of touch off might be fine if you're doing "to fixture"
[18:56:00] <andypugh> Actually, that isn't necessarily true. I now have Preview DRO saying Z is -10.235 and conventional DRO saying Z is 29.765. This is viewing via VNC though, let me just check the live screen
[18:56:27] <cradek> I'd be pretty surprised to see they don't match
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[18:57:45] <willburrrr2003> Is tere any way to generate a stepcong file for my machine? seems I missed that file when I backed up my machine config, as it doesn't show up in the stepconf window to select it... I have all my other config files (hal,ini,etc)
[18:58:24] <cradek> no, you can't generate a stepconf file from your hal/ini files
[18:58:27] <cradek> the only way is using stepconf
[18:58:44] <andypugh> They do once you jog a fraction. It seems that only the active Previwe/DRO tab updates on a touch-off
[18:58:56] <willburrrr2003> was afraid you would say that hehe, guess I will be editing all manually ;)
[18:59:24] <andypugh> You can copy the values from the INI into a new stepconf. But manually is better anyway.
[18:59:27] <cradek> andypugh: I didn't understand what you just said
[19:00:13] <andypugh> With the preview active, touch-off changes the DRO on that tab. The other DRO-only tab values don't update until the axis moves.
[19:00:40] <andypugh> Or, at least, that was the behaviour I just saw.
[19:01:51] <cradek> andypugh: I think your build is really old
[19:02:03] <andypugh> Actually, it is a little more complex. Touch-off button with DRO updates both, Touch-off button with Preview only updates Previes.
[19:02:16] <andypugh> Yeah, I am considering a pull and rebuild
[19:02:32] <cradek> what git version do you have currently?
[19:02:32] <andypugh> But I am not sure what I will lose if I do.
[19:02:39] <cradek> bugs, hopefully
[19:02:59] <cradek> you should probably pull v2.5_branch
[19:03:42] <andypugh> Yeah, but I can't remember if I have any uncommitted changes to drivers. I will certainly lose my SMI patch, and also end up with the bad Pyvcp textbox entry behaviour.
[19:04:28] <Aero-Tec> win 7 does not like my usb mem sticks
[19:04:59] <andypugh> The only thing likely to be in that build, thinkign about it, is the more-than-two gears gearchange, and that was rejected anyway.
[19:05:12] <cradek> andypugh: well you ought to be able to use git to keep changes you want.
[19:05:28] <andypugh> _you_ might be competent enough to do that :-)
[19:05:51] <cradek> only after long suffering
[19:06:45] <andypugh> I am in a branch called hm2fix. Sounds ominous.
[19:07:47] <skunkworks_> I think after 2.5 is released - I will put the k&t back on normal installed emc
[19:07:59] <skunkworks_> that should have all the changes that I need in it.
[19:08:51] <Aero-Tec> ok
[19:08:58] <Aero-Tec> xp reads it fine
[19:09:21] <Aero-Tec> linux version 8 and 10 read it fine
[19:09:36] <Aero-Tec> win 7 can not read it at all
[19:10:08] <Aero-Tec> anyone know what I can do to get win 7 to read my usb mem stick?
[19:10:12] <cradek> if you could save up and buy more Linux licenses, you could solve all your problems
[19:10:16] <SWPadnos> andypugh, at worst, you should be able to get a patchset out of git with the differences between your current HEAD and whatever it was based on. Those patches might apply reasonably easily to a later version
[19:10:32] <cradek> Aero-Tec: this probably isn't the place to get a (helpful) answer to that
[19:10:41] <Aero-Tec> thought linux was free
[19:11:06] <SWPadnos> those extra licenses should be easy to afford then :)
[19:11:08] <Aero-Tec> the mem stick has my error info from jitter test
[19:11:15] <andypugh> cradek seems to have learned sarcasm. Quite a feat for an American.
[19:11:33] <Aero-Tec> and I am on a win 7 machine right now
[19:11:38] <cradek> my feet look normal enough to me
[19:13:11] <SWPadnos> andypugh, we get it from "Monty Python", "Fawlty Towers", and "Are You Being Served"
[19:13:25] <archivist_emc> Americans cant see their feet!
[19:14:03] <SWPadnos> sure we can. it's easy when you're in a reclining chair
[19:14:07] <Aero-Tec> I love" yes minister"
[19:14:10] <SWPadnos> that's why they call them EX chairs
[19:14:13] <SWPadnos> err
[19:14:15] <SWPadnos> EZ
[19:14:22] <SWPadnos> you know
[19:14:31] <cradek> our fingers are too fat to type too
[19:14:41] <andypugh> So, sorry to be dumb, but how do I checkout the v2.5 branch?
[19:14:57] <cradek> by asking an american to help you figure it out?
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[19:15:26] <Aero-Tec> the double and triple talk the non elected guys use on the nood ministers is so funny
[19:16:13] <cradek> andypugh: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Git#Work_with_branches
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[19:19:08] <andypugh> I am looking for an origin/v2_5-branch
[19:19:35] <cradek> it's spelled v2.5_branch
[19:21:08] <andypugh> "does not match any file known to git"
[19:22:51] <JT-Shop> git branch --track v2.5_branch origin/v2.5_branch might be what you want
[19:22:52] <andypugh> I see RELEASE_2_0_3 which is subtitled v2.5.0-pre0
[19:23:46] <JT-Shop> what does teach.py do?
[19:24:29] <andypugh> I wonder if I am linked to the correct repository? Did it move?
[19:24:45] <skunkworks_> only a couple of inches to the left...
[19:25:27] <Aero-Tec> lol
[19:25:29] <SWPadnos> branch and checkout are local operations. if you haven't pulled (and you don't have a 2.5_branch in your local repo), you can't switch to it
[19:25:52] <SWPadnos> from that wiki page, "git branch -r" will list all the remote branches
[19:25:53] <Aero-Tec> I thought it moved to the right, my bad...LOL
[19:26:02] <SWPadnos> (ie, those on master)
[19:26:18] <SWPadnos> or origin, whatever it's called :)
[19:28:11] <andypugh> is origin/master 2.5 or 2.6?
[19:28:24] <andypugh> Or is that an "it depends"?
[19:28:34] <cradek> 2.5_branch is a branch off master a while back
[19:28:37] <cradek> there is no 2.6
[19:29:08] <andypugh> So, if I checkout master and pull, I can probably then branch to 2.5?
[19:29:29] <cradek> you want to checkout v2.5_branch
[19:30:41] <andypugh> Indeed, I do.
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[19:31:26] <andypugh> But I am too dumb to figure out how.
[19:31:49] <JT-Shop> do you have master now?
[19:32:08] <JT-Shop> JT-Shop git branch --track v2.5_branch origin/v2.5_branch
[19:32:20] <JT-Shop> git checkout v2.5_branch
[19:32:24] <andypugh> "git checkout v2.5_branch" gives the error "error: pathspec 'v2.5_branch' did not match any files(s) known to git"
[19:32:54] <JT-Shop> git branch -r
[19:33:09] <SWPadnos> checkout and branch aren't the same thing though
[19:33:47] <JT-Shop> andypugh: did you track it first?
[19:34:19] <andypugh> I am really desperate to be making parts :-(
[19:34:31] <andypugh> I have folk waiting.
[19:34:44] <andypugh> and a broken fire engine.
[19:35:06] <cradek> JT-Shop> JT-Shop git branch --track v2.5_branch origin/v2.5_branch
[19:35:51] <JT-Shop> http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/pro-touch-off-gage.html
[19:36:27] <Aero-Tec> thank god for networks
[19:36:41] <Aero-Tec> stan@stan-desktop:~$ latency-test
[19:36:43] <Aero-Tec> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/rtai_hal.ko': -1 File exists
[19:36:44] <Aero-Tec> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/emc2/threads.ko': -1 File exists
[19:36:46] <Aero-Tec> lat.hal:1: exit value: 1
[19:36:48] <Aero-Tec> lat.hal:1: insmod failed, returned -1
[19:36:50] <Aero-Tec> See the output of 'dmesg' for more information.
[19:36:51] <Aero-Tec> ERROR: Removing 'rtapi': No such file or directory
[19:36:53] <Aero-Tec> ERROR: Module rtai_smi does not exist in /proc/modules
[19:36:55] <Aero-Tec> ERROR: Removing 'rtai_fifos': Device or resource busy
[19:36:56] <Aero-Tec> ERROR: Module rtai_sched is in use by rtai_fifos
[19:36:58] <Aero-Tec> ERROR: Module rtai_hal is in use by rtai_fifos,rtai_sched
[19:37:00] <cradek> you can't run it while EMC is running
[19:37:01] <Aero-Tec> stan@stan-desktop:~$
[19:37:03] <Aero-Tec> the error mesage
[19:37:36] <Aero-Tec> cradek: are you talking to me?
[19:37:37] <cradek> JT-Shop: looks useful - not sure about the implementation though
[19:38:09] <JT-Shop> might be a bit better than the dowel... let you know
[19:38:22] <cradek> seems like the top (and bottom) should be hardened/ground
[19:38:35] <JT-Shop> hard anodized
[19:38:40] <cradek> that would mean more to me than PRO in the name...
[19:38:52] <Aero-Tec> that was the error message from trying to run the jitter test
[19:40:21] <Aero-Tec> the test runs fine with the unmoded rtapi file
[19:40:22] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: You get that when HAL fails to clean up properly. It's annoying but the only option I know is to reboot.
[19:40:22] <SWPadnos> Aero-Tec, yes, I think that was intended for you. "error -1 ... File Exists" usually means that the realtime system is already loaded
[19:40:50] <Aero-Tec> cool
[19:40:52] <Aero-Tec> ok
[19:40:55] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[19:41:05] <SWPadnos> sudo /etc/init.d/realtime stop might also do it
[19:41:20] <Aero-Tec> so how often does hal not clean up properly?
[19:41:37] <andypugh> Never tried that one SWPadnos . I know halrun -U rarely works.
[19:41:55] <SWPadnos> oh. well I think that does the realtime stop thing, so you never know :)
[19:42:01] <mozmck> SWPadnos: Jon mentioned talking with you about a Pick and Place machine - y'all working on making one work with EMC or something?
[19:42:08] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Generally only when I have messed up a driver and segfaulted. No idea why it would happen with an actual released version.
[19:42:28] <SWPadnos> mozmck, no, not necessarily with EMC. more for actual production
[19:42:38] <mozmck> Ah. You have one?
[19:42:43] <SWPadnos> (ie, I don't want to tinker with it)
[19:42:49] <SWPadnos> no, thought about buying some though
[19:42:56] <Aero-Tec> I am having trouble with one of my computers locking up
[19:43:06] <Aero-Tec> run windows great
[19:43:08] <mozmck> I have 2 older panasonic machines.
[19:43:33] <SWPadnos> there's a company in Mass. that went out of business, so all their stuff is on eBay. like 3x Fuji machines at ~24K parts/hour for $50k total
[19:43:35] <Aero-Tec> but has locked up running the jitter test
[19:43:39] <SWPadnos> (that's 24k each)
[19:43:54] <mozmck> Have one almost working, but it seems to have some issue with a linear encoder I think.
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[19:44:16] <SWPadnos> interesting
[19:44:17] <mozmck> I paid *way* less for the two machines I got with enough spare parts to almost build another!
[19:44:37] <SWPadnos> well, "almost working" isn't exactly what I'm looking for :)
[19:45:06] <skunkworks_> Aero-Tec: what hardware?
[19:45:07] <SWPadnos> this is a business thing. the company that would use them currently sells ~150k units/year, and has to place ~10M parts/year
[19:45:31] <Aero-Tec> IBM thinkcenter
[19:45:33] <mozmck> It uses servos with 500 line encoders, and linear encoders on the X and Y axes. When jogging the axes it will jump forward in places - sometimes backwards too!
[19:45:37] <davef> Well this is really strange. I got rid of eth1 and eth2. I am back online. But, when I run Firestarter, it says the network device is eth0. But when I click start firewall, it still refuses, saying eth2 is not ready. I ran the firewall wiz and it sees only eth0. Any ideas? I don't want to run without a firewall...
[19:45:37] <SWPadnos> with the equipment selling for pennies on the dollar, setting up an SMT line starts to compete with outsourcing to China
[19:45:43] <Aero-Tec> desktop unit
[19:45:43] <mozmck> Ah. Not for yourself?
[19:46:06] <SWPadnos> well, probably not, but maybe
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[19:46:54] <SWPadnos> ie, if they're too slow to decide for themselves, I may look at making a business of it. I don't have the $250k or so that would be needed to start up, but that's peanuts when you look at the possibilities
[19:47:21] <SWPadnos> I'm not much of a risk taker with that much money though, so I'd want some clients lined up first
[19:47:25] <mozmck> Yeah. I've thought of setting up to build boards for folks myself.
[19:47:44] <mozmck> But I think I could do it with a lot less up front - for several reasons.
[19:47:48] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140562250098
[19:47:54] <skunkworks_> davef: have you tried #ubuntu?
[19:48:05] <SWPadnos> check out the sellers other auctions too
[19:48:33] <SWPadnos> it can be done for less, but I always look at something close to a worst-case scenario when planning
[19:48:41] <mozmck> I've seen that one. I'm sure it's a good deal.
[19:48:49] <mozmck> Yeah.
[19:49:03] <SWPadnos> yeah, I think they're $500k to $1M machines new
[19:49:33] <andypugh> I have got lazy with make in 2.6
[19:49:41] <mozmck> One thing you can get into is that the company won't even talk to you without a $12k support contract I've heard.
[19:49:44] <andypugh> (well, master technically, I guess)
[19:49:56] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's part of the startup and operating costs :)
[19:50:01] <mozmck> Something to check on when looking at a machine.
[19:50:10] <andypugh> what's the incantation? make clean / . ./autogen.sh / and something with configure?
[19:50:21] <davef> skunkworks_ yes, testerday. Not a lot of help but I can try again. Seemed most interested in explaining that my OS GUI was no longer supported. I haven't had much luck there in the past
[19:50:43] <SWPadnos> I did a quick analysis and figured that it would cost roughly $500k/year to run a real assembly house, for the number of products I would expect to need to produce
[19:50:53] <skunkworks_> davef: or - if you post on ubuntuforums.org
[19:50:53] <mozmck> I've thought of running one of my machines with EMC at some point - especially if it winds up with unrepairable hardware problems.
[19:51:15] <SWPadnos> EMC could do it, I'd just be concerned about the overall speed
[19:51:35] <mozmck> Ouch! That's probably right though. How many employees does that figure on?
[19:51:38] <SWPadnos> since it's meant for contouring, not point-to-point
[19:52:01] <SWPadnos> one manager, 3 line workers, space and power
[19:52:10] <SWPadnos> a mid-sized oven is 30 kW
[19:52:33] <mozmck> Hmm, I figured it would take a bit of modification. Maybe just use some basic parts and build a new top end on it (EMC that is)
[19:52:36] <SWPadnos> and maybe a purchaser as well - I think there was a total of 5 people
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[19:53:12] <SWPadnos> sure, you could easily use classic ladder or something similar to it instead of motion, but still use the lower HAL layers for actual control
[19:53:25] <mozmck> Sounds about right. Board inspection and touch up may require a little more manpower.
[19:53:51] <SWPadnos> yep. I included some inspection and rework stations in the fit-up costs
[19:54:08] <mozmck> I bought a used oven that uses maybe 30 amps.
[19:54:15] <davef> dave
[19:54:19] <davef> kaboodle
[19:54:57] <SWPadnos> gorp fnark schmegle
[19:54:59] <mozmck> How are taxes up there?
[19:55:07] <SWPadnos> worse than Texas :)
[19:55:12] <SWPadnos> but no inventory tax, which is nice
[19:55:17] <mozmck> That's what I've heard.
[19:55:23] <davef> SWPadnos, yes.
[19:55:25] <SWPadnos> and I don't think there's an equipment tax either
[19:56:23] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[19:56:25] <mozmck> That's good!
[19:56:48] <mozmck> Business personal property tax is what they call it here. A pain it is.
[19:56:52] <Loetmichel> anyone: how to convert toot spacing to Module? (involute gears)
[19:56:57] <Loetmichel> tooth
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[19:58:36] <syyl_> pi*module
[19:58:44] <syyl_> get a machinists handbook
[20:00:22] <Loetmichel> syyl_: i have one... but where....
[20:00:27] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:00:32] <andypugh> Loetmichel: It's pi*mod, as syyl_ says, bit only on the pitch circle.
[20:00:46] <Loetmichel> thx
[20:00:51] <Loetmichel> both of you
[20:01:13] <Loetmichel> got gear generator to work with 500 teeth
[20:01:22] <andypugh> The pitch circle is a bit higher than half-way up the tooth.
[20:01:29] <Loetmichel> (dont know whar happened earlier)
[20:02:22] <Loetmichel> so a 6,28 tooth spacing in ger genaerator should equal a module 2 gear?
[20:02:46] <Loetmichel> 6,28mm
[20:04:19] <Aero-Tec> the gov guys want to tax us to death so they can live in luxury
[20:04:36] <syyl_> yes
[20:04:41] <syyl_> ca.
[20:04:45] <Aero-Tec> they stay up at nights dreaming of new ways to tax us working guys
[20:04:50] <cradek> I hope we never switch to the metric system
[20:04:59] <andypugh> You really think that?
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[20:05:13] <syyl_> 1/32" is much more easier, hm? :D
[20:05:21] <tom3p> well if the those who cause the switch will buy me a new set of tools....
[20:05:21] <Aero-Tec> I am in Canada
[20:05:31] <Aero-Tec> we run half and half
[20:05:33] <cradek> automatic transmissions are for wimps
[20:05:34] * mozmck agrees with cradek
[20:05:35] <andypugh> Decimal inches are fine. Fractions are just stupid.
[20:05:41] <Aero-Tec> some metric and some the old way
[20:06:07] <Loetmichel> cradek: yes, and how many times fit a 5/32" rod into a one square " hole?
[20:06:09] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:06:19] <andypugh> I guess in Imperial, then calculate in metric.
[20:06:21] <Aero-Tec> I agree with Andy
[20:06:46] <jdhNC> how about that metric time
[20:06:55] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:07:04] <syyl_> here in germany we have still imperial mesurements with pipe fittings etc
[20:07:15] <Loetmichel> syyl_: not any more
[20:07:23] <syyl_> sure
[20:07:24] <mozmck> Fractions are perfectly fine if you are doing larger/non precision stuff like house building.
[20:07:33] <jdhNC> if you wanted to tell someone where you were for their ICBM, what metric units would you use?
[20:07:43] <Aero-Tec> we should join the rest of the world and drive on the left
[20:07:47] <andypugh> And nautical charts are in metres depth and nautincal miles horizontally. Nice mix.
[20:07:49] <Loetmichel> even the copper pipes and cable armament pipes have switched to metric lately
[20:08:00] <Aero-Tec> or convince them to drive in the right
[20:08:13] <Aero-Tec> or did I get that the wrong way around?
[20:08:17] <cradek> it's so easy to stop an inane politics conversation ... but look what happens
[20:08:25] <Aero-Tec> oops
[20:08:25] <syyl_> yes, but ci pipes are still inch
[20:08:31] <andypugh> No, everyone driving on the left is the best idea.
[20:08:35] <syyl_> or pneumatic fittings (also mixed with metric)
[20:08:40] <Aero-Tec> reverse that
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[20:08:50] <syyl_> pita to work with
[20:09:30] * Loetmichel had driven to GB lately...
[20:09:45] <andypugh> ISO pipe threads still have imperial names, but as the sizes were only ever nominal anyway, they are defined in metric. So, no part of a 3/8" pipe thread is 3/8"
[20:10:06] <Loetmichel> interesting: the driving on the "wrong" side wasnt so disturbing and easy to accomodate.
[20:10:16] <syyl_> yeah andy
[20:10:23] <syyl_> thats realy irritating
[20:10:36] <andypugh> Heck, even the inch is defined in metric.
[20:10:38] <Loetmichel> but ohn the way back to germany i had some near accidents because i nearly piced the wrong side
[20:10:42] <Loetmichel> picked
[20:11:10] <davef> Hey, I found a configuration file for firestarter. In it, it has eth2 as the connection name on two lines. I'd like to change that but it is read-only. How can I do that, and is there a dpkg reconfigure command of some kind for doing that?
[20:11:24] <Loetmichel> andypugh: a 3/8" pipe WAS 3/8" ID as it was made from steel
[20:11:26] <andypugh> Loetmichel: I drive about equally in the UK and DE. I drive an equal mix of LH and RH drive cars in each country. I never know which side to get in or which side of the road to drive.
[20:11:52] <Loetmichel> now that it is copper the walls are thinner so the Diameter is no longer 3/8"
[20:11:53] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:11:57] <andypugh> Loetmichel: It was nominally 3/8" internal diameter, for one particular wall thickness...
[20:12:07] <Aero-Tec> that would mess with your mind
[20:12:11] <Loetmichel> andypugh: exactly
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[20:24:14] <Aero-Tec> still no run with reboot
[20:24:21] <Aero-Tec> looks like same error
[20:24:32] <Aero-Tec> also may be a amd cup
[20:24:35] <Aero-Tec> AMD
[20:24:49] <andypugh> put the whole of the output of dmesg at www.patebin.org
[20:24:51] <Aero-Tec> has a AMD sticker on the front
[20:24:58] <SWPadnos> AMD CPUs don't need and can't use the SMI fix, IIRC
[20:25:01] <andypugh> www.pastebin.org I mean
[20:25:08] <Aero-Tec> but I was sure it was a p4
[20:25:14] <SWPadnos> there is no issue with AMD CPUs in general
[20:25:19] <SWPadnos> cat /proc/cpuinfo
[20:25:32] <Aero-Tec> cool
[20:25:54] <Aero-Tec> so I should look for AMD boxes then
[20:26:01] <Aero-Tec> not intel
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[20:26:16] <SWPadnos> I didn't exactly say that :)
[20:26:21] <Aero-Tec> you would think that intel would be the better choice
[20:26:35] <SWPadnos> either can be fine or not. it just isn't due to whether it's Intel or AMD
[20:26:39] <ds3> speaking of wierd boxes... does pci express work with RT at the moment?
[20:26:41] <andypugh> It probably is. SMI is more of a motherboard thing
[20:27:10] <Aero-Tec> ok
[20:27:21] <Aero-Tec> so no mod
[20:27:26] <SWPadnos> as far as I know, the shortest usable base period achieved was on an Athlon system (in the sub-10 uS range)
[20:27:49] <andypugh> Atom can do that.
[20:27:57] <PCW> PCIE works fine with RT
[20:28:15] <andypugh> is that Express or External?
[20:28:19] <ds3> cool
[20:28:27] <ds3> now to find a PCIe parallel port card
[20:28:36] <Aero-Tec> what happens if I set jitter to 15K and then a 35K jitter comes along?
[20:28:38] <SWPadnos> my point being that Intel isn't better or worse for RT, you would choose based on other factors, or based on whichever one works best for your application
[20:28:40] <PCW> Express, (internal or external are the same)
[20:28:43] <Aero-Tec> bad juju?
[20:28:56] <Loetmichel> btw: strange effect on my old CNC computer: installed http://www.linuxcnc.org/lucid/ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc1-i386.iso ... runs perfect, but: no Menu bars, not top not bottom ?!?
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[20:29:50] <Loetmichel> not really scaring 'cause the computer has also mach3 and pcnc-dos on it, and the new CNC-computer is nearly ready for swap, but interesting ;-)
[20:30:37] <Aero-Tec> I have a box that will run sub 10K till I do a HD text search inside all the files on the drive
[20:30:43] <ds3> what's the cheapest way to get faster rapids? I seem to recall a faster CPU doesn't necessarily help
[20:30:54] <Aero-Tec> is that working the box to hard for the jitter test?
[20:31:08] <PCW> Faster with step+dir?
[20:31:17] <ds3> yes, step+dir on a parallel port right now
[20:31:24] <Aero-Tec> the PP can only go so fast
[20:31:47] <Aero-Tec> so faster cpu will not make faster steps
[20:32:07] <Aero-Tec> not sure what the max is
[20:32:10] <ds3> I was told it isn't the faster step part...it is the jitter being the limiting factor
[20:32:24] <PCW> Its really the jitter and latency, not so much the PP speed
[20:32:44] <ds3> that same machine w/Mach can definite do a faster rapid
[20:32:45] <Aero-Tec> I have heard of the PP running at 100K
[20:32:56] <SWPadnos> latency is the biggest killer, since you can never get more than one step per interrupt
[20:32:59] <ds3> is there like a FPGA card that would solve this ?
[20:33:11] <PCW> Funny you ask...
[20:33:18] <ds3> i.e a 5V capable FPGA card with a DB25 that just happen to match the parallel port pinout? :D
[20:33:28] <PCW> Yep 5I25
[20:33:46] <SWPadnos> and those interrupts need to be spaced such that the worst case latency can happen, and then enough processing time left over to do all the work necessary without spilling over into the next period
[20:34:05] <Aero-Tec> how much and will it over come jitter?
[20:34:26] <PCW> $89 and has ~30 nS jitter
[20:34:33] <ds3> who sells it?
[20:34:43] <PCW> we do
[20:34:44] <andypugh> PCW sells it :-)
[20:34:47] <ds3> google is not turing up anything useful
[20:34:51] <ds3> PCW: got a website? :D
[20:34:58] <SWPadnos> 5i25 - I hadn't heard of that one
[20:34:59] <andypugh> www.mesanet.com
[20:35:00] <PCW> Not really
[20:35:21] <ds3> lasers can really use better rapids ;)
[20:35:28] <PCW> 5I25 is not on it yet, just got PCI core and HM2 working
[20:35:54] <Aero-Tec> so what is the max step and dir output of thatone can get with that card?
[20:36:01] <andypugh> Ah, vapourware!
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[20:36:19] <andypugh> Neat idea though, like a mega-souped-up PCI parallel card?
[20:36:20] <PCW> Not really, I have one working here
[20:36:41] <PCW> Yep, also dual port
[20:36:53] <Aero-Tec> so can I buy one now and use it with EMC2 or not?
[20:37:03] <PCW> eventually...
[20:37:30] <ds3> PCW: and it will directly plug into a DB25 originally for a parallel port?
[20:37:46] <ds3> PCW: you're local!
[20:38:15] <Aero-Tec> so when will it be available for use with EMC2 and how much for the dual port and will the dual port work with EMC2 as well?
[20:38:18] <PCW> I'm pretty pleased though, the proto has no artwork errors, got the PCI core running in 3 days
[20:38:19] <PCW> No its a low profile PCI parallel port card replacement
[20:39:03] <ds3> no no... I mean it will talk to my machine with a DB25 connector on it or do I need yet anoteher cable harness?
[20:39:47] <PCW> The are all dual port (db 25 on back, 26 HDR on card all 5V tolerant)
[20:39:48] <PCW> should work with any standard breakout (and we will be making a couple of our own)
[20:39:56] <Aero-Tec> pcw: so when will it be available for use with EMC2 and how much for the dual port and will the dual port work with EMC2 as well?
[20:40:36] <ds3> dual port as in total of 24 bits of I/O on a single DB25?
[20:41:14] <PCW> 34 bit of I/O total (17 per conn like PP)
[20:41:27] <ds3> Oh you do have 2 connectors
[20:41:53] <Aero-Tec> hate to keep asking but
[20:41:56] <Aero-Tec> so when will it be available for use with EMC2 and how much for the dual port and will the dual port work with EMC2 as well?
[20:42:06] <PCW> Yes, DB25 out back and 26 HDR like a normal dual port parallel card
[20:42:18] <ds3> gotcha
[20:42:40] <ds3> what's the target selling timeframe?
[20:42:45] <PCW> Dual port is same price (all are dual portm but I can charge you more if you like)
[20:42:46] <SWPadnos> ok, so it's a PCI bus, host controlled version of a SmoothStepper :)
[20:43:01] <ds3> presumeably it will need the special drivers in EMC2, right?
[20:43:44] <PCW> Well its running HM2 at the moment, driver is standard HM2 driver but with some minor differences
[20:43:45] <SWPadnos> it may not be much more than adding some PCI IDs to the driver
[20:43:51] <ds3> SWPadnos: have you or anyone manage to solve the USB problem?
[20:44:03] <SWPadnos> no, I think it may be intractable for USB < 3.0
[20:44:08] <ds3> <-- only knows how to use stepperconf at the moment
[20:44:17] <PCW> Yep PCI ids plus no download
[20:44:33] <SWPadnos> stepconf won't do it. you may need pncconf instead, once the new card has been added to it
[20:44:50] <ds3> so there is a idiots configuration util
[20:45:08] <SWPadnos> pnc - "point-n-click" :)
[20:45:29] <Aero-Tec> pcw so when can we use it with EMC2?
[20:45:30] <ds3> if I can get 20-30IPM's, I'd very happy =)
[20:45:32] <SWPadnos> I don't know what it supports, but IIRC it's at least parports and Mesa cards
[20:45:33] <Aero-Tec> any time frame?
[20:45:48] <SWPadnos> ds3, what's the step resolution?
[20:45:58] <PCW> I expect we will have cards in about 1 month
[20:46:07] <Aero-Tec> cool
[20:46:10] <ds3> SWPadnos: I think that machine is 1 step == 0.001 or half that
[20:46:11] <Aero-Tec> I need 2
[20:46:21] <SWPadnos> 30 IPM or 30 IPS?
[20:46:31] <ds3> the F paramter is in IPM's right?
[20:46:35] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:46:58] <Aero-Tec> will there be a long testing period?
[20:47:00] <ds3> so IPM... I want to do F30 and have it really work. right now, F10, F15, F20 all do the samething :(
[20:47:19] <Aero-Tec> or will they be solid and ready to buy in 1 month?
[20:47:20] <SWPadnos> you have a problem other than jitter then, unless your jitter is something like 2 ms
[20:47:48] <ds3> this is a crappy machine to start with... AMD K6-3 @ 533MHz
[20:47:50] <ds3> so...
[20:47:56] <SWPadnos> 30 IPM = 0.5 IPS, which is only 500-1000 steps/sec (at 0.001 or 0.0005 resolution)
[20:48:28] <SWPadnos> well, I have a celeron 500 (with integrated video, no less) that can do 25 uS base periods with no trouble
[20:48:33] <SWPadnos> that's 20-40 k steps/second
[20:48:37] <ds3> Hmmm
[20:48:51] <ds3> so many upgrading to a PIII-800 will do something useful?
[20:49:05] <PCW> We have to test them is a large range of PCs to make sure there are no PCI issues so that will take some of the time.
[20:49:06] <PCW> Also we would like to get our step and analog servo daughtercards avaialble
[20:49:11] <SWPadnos> you could run 50 uS periods and still get 20k with doublestep or 10k with normal stepping
[20:49:21] <ds3> FWIW, this same machine doesn't do well with the python UI...I am using tkemc right now
[20:49:25] <SWPadnos> probably not. what's the jitter number for the K6?
[20:49:37] <ds3> let me go power it up...bbiab
[20:52:57] <PCW> Neat thing with Spartan 6 HM2 is the high freq clock (for PWM etc) meets timing at 250 MHz
[20:54:57] <andypugh> ideal for 75 million RPM stepper motors.
[20:55:26] <Aero-Tec> so what is the best way to test jitter?
[20:55:31] <ds3> baser period max jitter: 50000
[20:55:38] <ds3> per stepconf
[20:55:49] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: CNC menu, latency test.
[20:56:05] <SWPadnos> ouch
[20:56:05] <Aero-Tec> is running a text search through every file in the box a tad extreme?
[20:56:07] <Aero-Tec> yes
[20:56:09] <SWPadnos> that is crap :)
[20:56:44] <ds3> so do I attack this with a faster CPU or PCW wonder blackbox? :D
[20:56:47] <andypugh> Well, 50k is pretty bad, but actually still usable.
[20:56:47] <SWPadnos> Aero-Tec, no, it's not. you want to exercise any subsystem that might be used while running a part
[20:56:49] <elmo401> sure, smile at the crap ;)
[20:56:56] <Aero-Tec> I was meaning what one should do with box while test was running
[20:57:28] <SWPadnos> ds3, I'm betting that you would be happier with a faster CPU. whether or not to add a Mesa card is a separate question
[20:57:29] <Aero-Tec> so it come out to about 35K
[20:57:45] <Aero-Tec> is that high for a p4 box?
[20:57:52] <PCW> Well 250 MHz means that things like UARTs and BISS, and SPI can run at high rates with lower jitter,
[20:57:53] <PCW> PWM can be higher resolution, plus embedded uProcs run faster
[20:57:54] <andypugh> ds3: A mini-ITX board with pico-PSU, 8GB22D and 1GB RAM will fit nicely in the machine case and cost about $150.
[20:57:57] <Aero-Tec> the AMD is around 15K
[20:58:04] <SWPadnos> 50k is usable, at ~100 uS base rate (giving 10k steps/sec max with doublestep), but it has a lot of jitter in the actual step stream
[20:58:07] <ds3> SWPadnos: happier maybe, but will it get me faster rapids?
[20:58:32] <andypugh> PCW handily enough, I made the BSPI driver so that it will work with any clock low
[20:58:42] <ds3> happiness doesn't matter if the part isn't cut right
[20:58:51] <SWPadnos> a $89 Atom mini-ITX board would most certainly be able to get you faster rapids than you're talking about, *if* the only problem is the jitter/CPU
[20:59:03] <ds3> andypugh: does that includ ethe parallel port?
[20:59:19] <andypugh> No, you need to budget $3 more for the p-port extender.
[20:59:31] <Aero-Tec> so where do you get them?
[20:59:32] <ds3> Oh so the mini ITX board have slots in it?
[20:59:37] <PCW> Yeah the clock constants are there so the driver can DDRT
[20:59:49] <PCW> Most have 1 PCI slot
[21:00:07] <Aero-Tec> do the Atom minis work well?
[21:00:11] <andypugh> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121399&Tpk=D510MO
[21:00:11] <ds3> the alternative is to move to a dual PIII board w/1 PIII CPU populated in there...cost for that is 0 but unless it really does help, that isn't very useful
[21:00:45] <andypugh> Is what I and many others are happily using. I think JT has a jitter of 7000nS
[21:00:54] <PCW> Yes the ATOM minis do workk well
[21:00:56] <PCW> I think the later intel Mini ITX's have a miniPCIE slot as well
[21:00:57] <ds3> a new Atom board means new power supply, new hard drive, new memory so it is yanking on a long chain
[21:01:24] <SWPadnos> ds3, if you have the PIII, try it out
[21:01:40] <SWPadnos> you might be able to just move the disk over, especially if the graphics card is the same (or you can move that too)
[21:01:59] <ds3> SWPadnos: last time I asked, the consensus is that won't help but I can try that easily
[21:02:03] <andypugh> Yeah, that was why I said $200 not $80. Though that is probably pessimistic, a $20 PicoPSU and $30 SSD + $20 of RAM is all it takes.
[21:02:36] <SWPadnos> use both CPUs, if you want the GUI to work better
[21:03:11] <SWPadnos> your K6-3 board doesn't use ATX power?
[21:04:16] <andypugh> mini-ITX has standard power connections, but it seems a waste of compactness to have a PSU which dwarfs the Mobo.
[21:04:32] <ds3> SWPadnos: nope. it is an AT form factor
[21:04:33] <andypugh> I like the way that mine runs totally passiely cooled with no moving parts.
[21:04:36] <SWPadnos> depends on whether space or money is a more important factor
[21:04:48] <SWPadnos> wow, haven't seen those in a while :)
[21:05:12] <andypugh> Well, no-fan seems good in a dusty machine shop environment.
[21:05:40] <SWPadnos> yeah, that is a nice thing
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[21:05:58] <ds3> the future is ARM
[21:06:03] <ds3> investing in x86 is a deadend ;)
[21:06:15] <SWPadnos> not the EMC future, at least for some time :)
[21:06:28] <SWPadnos> unless you'd like to assist in the RTAI porting efforts
[21:06:42] <andypugh> Arm is 20 geeks in a shed in Oxford.
[21:06:48] <ds3> is the RTAI porting effort stalled at the moment?
[21:06:54] <Aero-Tec> so when one does the rtapi mod on a intel box, does one need to turn the fan on all the time so it will not over heat?
[21:06:56] <cradek> the future is the heat death of the universe
[21:07:09] <ds3> damn you entropy!
[21:07:19] <Aero-Tec> the IBM has the option to run fan full boar all the time
[21:07:23] <SWPadnos> I haven't heard anything about it in several month
[21:07:28] <cradek> at least there will be parallel ports everywhere until the end
[21:07:38] <L84Supper> RTAI works on ARM
[21:07:42] <andypugh> Actually, 1700 geeks in a shed in Cambridge.
[21:07:58] <ds3> then where's EMC2 on ARM? ;)
[21:08:04] <tom3p_> the parallel port at the end of the univers ( The big bang Printer bar )
[21:08:07] <andypugh> Ask Jon Elson
[21:08:13] <SWPadnos> ds3, patches gratefully accepted
[21:08:26] <Aero-Tec> there was a warning about over heating when doing the rtapi mod
[21:08:26] <SWPadnos> maybe it was OMAP actually, JonE was targeting the Beagleboard
[21:08:27] <PCW> problem with ARM is that all systems are different without enough hardware commonality
[21:08:37] <L84Supper> most of the embedded ARM people are using Xenomai, not sure why they gravitated that way, probably just some support
[21:09:00] <PCW> a symptom...
[21:09:06] <L84Supper> we are porting coreboot to ARM
[21:09:25] <ds3> the nice thing about ARM is all the systems run a common binary ;)
[21:09:25] <Aero-Tec> does one need to watch for that, like is it a real problem that can bite you?
[21:09:29] <L84Supper> Marvell will be supported first then we'll get RTAI going
[21:09:45] <ds3> ewwwwwwwwwww Marvell.. *gag*
[21:09:57] <ds3> true ARMv7 please =)
[21:10:23] <L84Supper> ds3: what ARM platform did you want to run EMC on?
[21:10:25] <SWPadnos> Aero-Tec, yes. you should just set the fan(s) to run all the time
[21:10:49] <ds3> L84Supper: any of the TI Cortex-A8's
[21:10:50] <SWPadnos> technically, disabling SMI means that you're running the CPU out of spec, since SMI is meant to manage thermal issues
[21:10:54] <SWPadnos> among other things
[21:11:08] <L84Supper> ds3: try the pandaboard, then come back
[21:11:10] <ds3> Marvell's are AFAIK, bastardized ARMv5's
[21:11:14] <andypugh> Interesting number. 15 billion ARM cores have shipped. That's 2 each.
[21:11:23] <ds3> L84Supper: why would you want to throw SMP into the mix?
[21:11:24] <Aero-Tec> SWPadnos: could be way the computer was handing up when running test
[21:11:29] <L84Supper> ds3: good luck
[21:11:34] <Aero-Tec> over heated
[21:11:48] <Aero-Tec> hope it would not damage it
[21:11:49] <SWPadnos> posssible. I don't know if it's likely though :)
[21:11:52] <SWPadnos> posssible. I don't know if it's likely though :)
[21:12:17] <andypugh> I have been running the SMI patch on my lathe for over a year with no problems.
[21:12:22] <Aero-Tec> so why would it hang?
[21:12:32] <Aero-Tec> anything I should be looking for?
[21:12:39] <SWPadnos> I don't have enough information to determine why
[21:12:45] <Aero-Tec> any bios setting to look out for?
[21:12:49] <L84Supper> ds3: how will you interface to the TI boards? They don't have PCI or PCIe
[21:13:26] <ds3> L84Supper: GPIO
[21:13:27] <andypugh> well, I pulled and re-compiled EMC2. now it segfaults on launch. This isn't a great fix to my problem.
[21:13:29] <PCW> I dont think the Atom CPUs need aggressive thermal management, you might lose with a P4 though
[21:13:33] <Aero-Tec> is there any tools one can download that will help track down a computer hand problem?
[21:13:46] <ds3> L84Supper: or even onboard PWM generation HW
[21:14:17] <L84Supper> ds3: let us know how it all works out for you, we'll be around with actual factory support from Marvell
[21:14:44] <mozmck> ds3: better look at the GPIO closely, Jon found issues on the beagleboard with slow toggle times on the GPIO on that chip.
[21:14:44] <Aero-Tec> computer hang problem
[21:15:37] <ds3> mozmck: yes, it tops out at 4MHz
[21:15:53] <ds3> L84Supper: getting support for the part isn't a problem
[21:16:06] <Jymmm> ds3: MSI just bit me with the MArvel chipset
[21:16:07] <ds3> L84Supper: are you porting/working on RTAI or just a user?
[21:16:10] <mozmck> Ok, didn't remember what the value was, just so you were aware of it.
[21:16:10] <L84Supper> heh from TI?
[21:16:43] <ds3> mozmck: I have a hack in mind to work around it
[21:17:00] <L84Supper> ds3: the guy on the other side of the room is porting RTAI. I hate software
[21:17:27] <ds3> L84Supper: yes... miles better then Marvell. I have gotten better support staring into the ocean then support from Marvell
[21:17:48] <ds3> anyways
[21:17:59] <L84Supper> what was in the ocean?
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[21:19:08] <ds3> anything :D
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[21:20:31] <L84Supper> ds3: some possible platforms http://www.coreboot.org/ARM
[21:21:51] <L84Supper> ds3: Sitara might be a better fit if you want TI
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[21:25:07] <L84Supper> Sitara to Mesa 3x20 or 7i68 with PCIe
[21:26:11] <PCW> We will have lower cost PCIE soon as well
[21:26:55] <L84Supper> PCW : what about drivers for ARM Linux?
[21:27:20] <PCW> Should be pretty trivial to port
[21:27:43] <KimK> andypugh: I got invited to a late lunch, so now I'm struggling to scroll back and catch up. I see you re-compiled EMC2, so you must have gotten your "incantation" from an hour or two ago. (I've got it memorized now, after my docs fest, if you need it, lol!) I'm still not clear on what problem is shown in your screenshot, though.
[21:30:04] <mrsunshine_> gah all i need is some unobtanium to make it work
[21:30:49] <ds3> L84Supper: that's a member of the Cortex-A8 family
[21:31:01] <Aero-Tec> what is the best way to get GLXgears?
[21:31:16] <Aero-Tec> did a web search, that did not help me
[21:31:32] <KimK> "sudo apt-get install glxgears"?
[21:31:54] <ds3> L84Supper: I am trying to avoid going down the name dejour with their parts
[21:32:11] <L84Supper> ds3: yes, the Sitara's have PCIe so will get coreboot and RTAI support sonner than later
[21:32:17] <KimK> oh, wait, you're not online?
[21:32:18] <mrsunshine_> mesa-utils i think glxgears is in
[21:32:21] <mrsunshine_> not glxgears
[21:32:37] <KimK> OK, there you go!
[21:32:40] <mrsunshine_> Aero-Tec, if you use ubuntu, just type "glxgears" in terminal and it will tell you the package =)
[21:32:47] <ds3> L84Supper: why is PCIe so important?
[21:32:48] <mrsunshine_> if its not installed
[21:32:51] <Aero-Tec> cool
[21:32:54] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[21:33:21] <Aero-Tec> wow
[21:33:29] <Aero-Tec> no download needed
[21:33:30] <L84Supper> ds3: http://pandaboard.org/ but no PCIe but has cortex-a9
[21:33:31] <Aero-Tec> cool
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[21:34:13] <ds3> L84Supper: given that list, I'd assume it should work fine w/the non PCIe parts?
[21:34:21] <ds3> like the other sitaras
[21:35:53] <Aero-Tec> still not sure why one IBM think center running version 8 is got 12.2 K max jitter and the other think center running version 10.04 is got over 37K jitter
[21:35:55] <L84Supper> ds3: which "it" RTAI or?
[21:36:50] <Aero-Tec> will try to install version 8 into the version 10 unit and see if the jitter drops
[21:37:15] <KimK> Aero-Tec: You know you can install both, if you wish
[21:37:25] <Aero-Tec> cool
[21:37:29] <L84Supper> ds3: if you don't need an FPGA over PCIe then Atmel or Samsung has some really low caost arm9 or 11 parts
[21:37:30] <Aero-Tec> did not know
[21:37:35] <Aero-Tec> so how?
[21:37:48] <Aero-Tec> drop in the version 8 disk and say install?
[21:38:20] <andypugh> Well, I know what causes the problem, but no idea why.
[21:38:43] <Aero-Tec> would be cool if it were that easy
[21:39:16] <KimK> Just use gparted (you might have to install it) to resize your drive, maybe half-and-half plus a shared swapfile area. So maybe 49% one OS, 2% swap area, 49% other OS.
[21:40:03] <Aero-Tec> hoped it would have been easier then that
[21:40:13] <Aero-Tec> I am a nood to linux
[21:40:14] <ds3> L84Supper: yes, RTAI == it
[21:40:17] <andypugh> http://pastebin.com/manJCbkv
[21:40:19] <KimK> Oh, rather than install it, run it from another OS, maybe Knoppix
[21:40:21] <Aero-Tec> I know some of it
[21:40:23] <davef> BTW a few times I had big problems with EMC going bonkers and doing stuff like suddenly cutting a y-axis only vertical line when it was supposed to be a 45, stuff like that, and I finally discovered it happened randomly ONLY when I had a usb dflash drive plugged into the usb port. after removing it, all those problems went away...
[21:40:54] <Aero-Tec> did a fair amount of redhat work for web and internet servers
[21:41:03] <andypugh> all is fine on startup, then I run the code at the pastebin up to M0, then press stop. Then it ends up all messed up.
[21:41:46] <andypugh> So, something in the first 17 lines is the problem, or pressing "stop" in M0 is the problem.
[21:43:02] <Aero-Tec> basic stuff, like a trained money, I know what to do but not why to do
[21:43:04] <Aero-Tec> lol
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[21:43:10] <andypugh> (The named parameters lost their first letters as an experiment to see if that was the problem due to mharberlers introspection stuff. That was one straw firmly grasped)
[21:44:03] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Great, your previous Linux work will help. So if you resize you can install several Linux-type OSs. If you want to install a Windows OS, you can, but it's usually better if it's in a primary partition, and first in order.
[21:45:20] <andypugh> Anyone got a lathe they can try my code on?
[21:45:37] <ssi> I do, but I'm not home at the moment
[21:45:45] <KimK> I could try simming it, would that help?
[21:45:59] <andypugh> I guess I could too.
[21:46:51] <davef> andypugh I have a mini lathe with emc.
[21:47:50] <andypugh> Here is the situation. The code is meant to place the tool as an end-stop for the bar, then make the part. However my toolholder isn't repeatable enough, so I am trying to stop the code and do a test cut at the M0 and touch off. But then it all goes wierd as described earlier.
[21:49:53] <Aero-Tec> KimK: I already had windows installed
[21:50:01] <davef> Seems I had a problem like that too... I think I just divided the code into two separate programs. Not a very elgant solution.
[21:50:10] <Aero-Tec> I installed linux second
[21:51:08] <Aero-Tec> I have mach controlling the machines now
[21:51:33] <Aero-Tec> want to use EMC2 as I hear such good things about it
[21:52:11] <JT-Shop> andypugh: sure
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[21:53:07] <andypugh> I didn't intend to be working this way, I was hoping for better repeatability between tool changes
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[21:53:50] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Excellent, you're well on your way then. In that case resize to maybe 32% Win, 32% 8.04, 6% swap, 32% 10.04. If you think 3 OSs is enough, LOL. If not, then save space for one: 24% Win, 24% 8.04, 8% swap, 24% 10.04, 24% empty.
[21:54:35] <KimK> Oops, I guess my math is faulty on those, but you'll figure out my mistakes, lol.
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[21:54:45] <elmo401> andypugh: we do that quite a bit, using a flat end of the tool (or in the mill, using a pin in a chuck) as a material stopper. works rather well.
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[21:56:53] <KimK> Aero-Tec: When you resize though, you might not be able to resize the currently active drive, which is why I was thinking that a run from CD would be best then. Either an Ubuntu install disk or a Knoppix disk would be good.
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[21:58:45] <Aero-Tec> I could just over write 10 and install 8
[21:59:00] <Aero-Tec> keep it simple
[21:59:18] <Aero-Tec> as I do not care what one I use as long as it works well
[21:59:41] <KimK> Up to you. If you already have it installed and adjusted and working nice in latency, I'd hang onto it.
[22:00:27] <Aero-Tec> when the new boards are out in a month or 2 then upgrade if needed and use the new port boards coming out
[22:00:28] <KimK> It's nice to be able to jump back and forth to try different systems.
[22:00:57] <Aero-Tec> true
[22:01:27] <Aero-Tec> I just want a solid working machine
[22:01:33] <Aero-Tec> not asking for much
[22:01:34] <Aero-Tec> lol
[22:02:24] <andypugh> OK, it appears to be linked to the tool table...
[22:02:46] <KimK> Aero-Tec: But it's your setup, if you'd rather throw and go, that's fine too. Ha, yes, that's what we all want. The question is, how best to get that? That's why trying different OSs is nice.
[22:03:06] <andypugh> I get the same thing in sim with 2.4.6
[22:08:06] <Aero-Tec> not much to throw
[22:08:21] <Aero-Tec> I did not do much work on the version I have now
[22:08:32] <Aero-Tec> just the rtaip mod is all
[22:08:47] <Aero-Tec> BTW
[22:09:05] <Aero-Tec> would a update make a difference?
[22:09:26] <Aero-Tec> I have not done a update from the cd install
[22:10:22] <Aero-Tec> hope to get a wireless bridge tomorrow to connect the 2 networks
[22:10:50] <KimK> Aero-Tec: There were a *lot* of updates from 10.04 original. Ubuntu had to release 10.04.01 CDs and then 10.04.02 CDs. I'm sure there will be 10.04.03 CDs at some point down the line.
[22:11:28] <Aero-Tec> I just downloaded the ISO from the EMC2 web site
[22:11:39] <Aero-Tec> have no idea what version it is
[22:12:21] <KimK> I'm pretty sure it's the "...linuxcnc1..." version, which is 10.04 original, I'm pretty sure.
[22:12:42] <KimK> Oops, where's an editor when you need one.
[22:13:53] <KimK> Oh, if you're talking about the 8.04 ISO, then I think the "...aj13.." version is the latest.
[22:15:01] <KimK> We like to give different names to everything to keep everybody on their toes, lol.
[22:15:13] <davef> andypugh is there some way fior me to see your explanation of the problem you posted earlier?
[22:15:40] <andypugh> I am still trying to pin it down.
[22:15:44] <KimK> andypugh: I would like that too, Andy
[22:16:38] <davef> dumb question, but just to be clear, that surface speed IS meant to be 19 meters per minute, not mm/min right?
[22:16:39] <KimK> I saw the screenshot you posted and heard a "whoosh" sound as something went right over my head.
[22:17:45] <andypugh> Well, when you type "G0 Z40" you expect the motion to finish with the Z coordinate reading 40 in the DRO, don't you?
[22:18:13] <elmo401> meters/minute? sure, why not? that is only 748 IPM
[22:18:33] <elmo401> andypugh: unless you are in incremental mode ;)
[22:19:09] <andypugh> Bugger, I was just playing in the vnc screen forgetting there is a real machine out there, with stock and a tool loaded. I bet that is another dead tip :-(
[22:19:24] <elmo401> my latest new toy :) http://image.bayimg.com/nailaaadj.jpg
[22:21:55] <andypugh> Thing is, I want to be making parts, not exhaustively investigating the necessary steps to demostrate a problem.
[22:22:03] <davef> elmo401 yes I realize that.
[22:22:43] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Speaking of downloads, do you know about md5sum? And its newer friends sha1sum, sha256sum, etc.? Good for making sure you got a good download. And a good burn later, although there are some tricks to that part.
[22:22:55] <davef> andypugh do you need to turn off G95 when doing those g0's or does that happen automatically?
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[22:23:34] <andypugh> G95 doesn't affect rapids
[22:24:41] <Aero-Tec> yes I am some what, I know the theory and what is does but not exactly how to use it
[22:25:10] <Aero-Tec> wish I was more up on this stuff
[22:25:16] <andypugh> So, I can clear the problem with a G43.
[22:25:21] <Aero-Tec> love linux and what ir can do
[22:25:27] <Aero-Tec> it
[22:25:29] <andypugh> Maybe I have a corrupt tooltable?
[22:26:08] <Aero-Tec> just have not had the time I would have liked to play with it
[22:26:54] <Aero-Tec> spent more time with windows and learning it then I liked, but the program I needed to run ran in windows
[22:27:10] <Aero-Tec> programs
[22:27:25] <Aero-Tec> to bad
[22:27:48] <Aero-Tec> resented to time I spent learning it
[22:28:53] <KimK> Aero-Tec: It's very easy. to check an ISO file, just say md5sum -b filename.iso The -b tells md5sum that this is a binary file (as opposed to a text file). You get back a checksum (aka hash code) in this format: "12345...(32 chars)...6789012 *filename.iso"
[22:29:02] <elmo401> andypugh: do you do a g40 before the g0 z40?
[22:29:34] <elmo401> err, g49 :P
[22:29:36] <andypugh> Problem description: Start machine, home, touch-off all work. Load a tool (M6 T4 G43) and all is well. Run that code, (http://pastebin.com/manJCbkv) and then stop it at the M0 (or later) and g0 Z0 moves Z to show -10.235 on the DRO. (note that 10.235 is _not_ the tool offset, that is 0.349424)
[22:30:19] <andypugh> elmo401: Do you need to? I don't normally. (the tool is still loaed)
[22:31:01] <elmo401> when you say "and then stop it at the M0 (or later) and g0 Z0 moves Z to" does that still retain the G54?
[22:31:37] <andypugh> You can get the same behaviour in the lathe sim under 2.4.6 but there the offset is exactly equal to the tool Z offset.
[22:32:07] <elmo401> oh, lathe... a little bit of a different beast ;)
[22:32:11] <andypugh> elmo401: If you mean what I think you mean, then yes. If you don;t mean what I think you mean, then maybe.
[22:32:20] <elmo401> love it :P
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[22:33:24] <andypugh> regardless of tool offsets and workpiece offsets (with the possible exception of tool radius compensation) G0 Z10 should leave the DRO reading 10, I am sure of that.
[22:33:39] <KimK> Aero-Tec: The first space is required. The second space can be an asterisk. The asterisk says that it's a binary file. Then the filename in question. So if you have one of these text string(s), you can ask md5sum to check your file(s) for you, so you don't have to look at the hash code(s). Just say, "md5sum -c filename.iso.md5" (or whatever it's called). The -c says check from a file. md5sum will say OK or FAIL.
[22:33:56] <andypugh> In both my real machine and the sim, issuing a standalone G43 makes the problem go away.
[22:34:14] <elmo40> I am not sure if 300W is a strong motor or not, but I would like to use it on the X-axis of my machine. too bad I don't have two of them (one for the Y)
[22:34:39] <andypugh> It's like G43 in MDI has a different effect to G43 in auto.
[22:34:45] <andypugh> <lightbulb>
[22:35:21] * KimK cues the "Ding!" sound effect...
[22:36:41] <andypugh> OK, so, is it a bug or a feature that G43 can't be on the same line as M6?
[22:37:01] <elmo40> the DRO, what is the numbers it displays? machine coordinate or WPC ?
[22:37:16] <Aero-Tec> KimK: cool, thanks, I will need to work more with a linux machine for all that as my windows machines do not sound like they will do that, must be some program one can get that will do it in windows
[22:37:31] <elmo40> well, I have never put it on the same line, since you can't set the height and change the tool at the same time
[22:37:45] <andypugh> I am so used to typing that as one line in MDI I hadn't considered the possibility that G43 might have to be on a separate line, but that does seem to fix the issue.
[22:37:59] <elmo40> on a mill, I do : T4M6; G43Z5.H4;
[22:37:59] <andypugh> elmo40: "relative actual"
[22:38:28] <elmo40> try on separate lines
[22:38:30] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Yes, you can get versions of md5sum for windows. And the checksums you are interested in are available here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/21/4/lang,english/
[22:38:40] <andypugh> I just did, it all seems to work as expected.
[22:39:03] <elmo40> do you do a z-motion along with the g43? or on the next line?
[22:39:10] <andypugh> That 10.325 looks to be the result of a very consistent race condition...
[22:39:57] <andypugh> (I do think it is probably a bug, actually)
[22:40:18] <andypugh> But I have parts to make.
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[22:41:26] <KimK> Really? I was about to say I think it's a feature. Since M6 is a tool change, and G43 is a tool length offset change, requiring them to be separate seems like a good idea.
[22:42:57] <KimK> Change your tool, then adjust it. Or adjust your tool, then change it. But don't try to adjust/change it.
[22:43:19] <PCW> If it doesn't work, the parser should barf though
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[22:43:48] <KimK> OK, now *that* I can certainly agree with.
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[22:45:34] <KimK> Does an "unexpected" (or inelegantly arrived) M6 cancel G43 back to G49, G41-42 back to G40, etc?
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[22:46:04] <KimK> Or at least post an error?
[22:47:18] -!- chester88 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[22:47:44] <KimK> "You're trying to change to a new tool, but you don't appear to be done with the current tool"
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[22:52:42] <Tom_itx> logger[psha]
[22:53:46] <Tom_itx> my cam puts G43 on the first linear move line with the H word
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[22:54:20] <Tom_itx> the H is on a separate line from the T word
[22:55:15] <JT-Shop> my cam puts Tn M6 G43
[22:55:40] <Tom_itx> T1 M06
[22:55:44] <Tom_itx> G17 G00 G90 X-0.689 Y-0.0491 S10016 M03
[22:55:50] <Tom_itx> G43 Z0.1 H1
[22:56:39] <Tom_itx> the z move is always a rapid move to the z clear feed point
[22:57:16] <Tom_itx> which is settable in the cad model
[22:57:43] <Tom_itx> per tool or individual move if necessary
[22:58:22] <KimK> Well, now that I think about it, that is pretty standard to say M6 G43. OK, I take it back. Except maybe for the MDI, maybe it's different there?
[22:59:26] <Tom_itx> that S isn't correct there either
[22:59:46] <Tom_itx> hard to tell how that got set since my sherline has no spindle control
[23:00:07] <Tom_itx> i probably just threw some numbers in to fill in the blanks on it
[23:00:07] <elmo40> working in the mill, over the last 10 some odd years... I have never seen those two on the same line. I haven't worked on a lathe in probably 5 years, maybe it is widely used there, can't remember.
[23:00:46] <KimK> Wait, shouldn't the MDI be looking out for you? OK, now I'm confused, lol.
[23:01:27] <Tom_itx> mdi is like taking the safety off a revolver and pointing it at your foot
[23:02:03] <JT-Shop> revolvers don't have safety's except for one that I know of...
[23:02:19] <Tom_itx> wondered if you'd pick up on that :D
[23:02:50] <KimK> It's the "Linux way", lol. (Who said that gun/foot quote anyway, I've been looking for that. Google didn't help.)
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[23:04:53] <JT-Shop> grumble, I guess I'll change the motherboard on this computer tomorrow....
[23:04:57] -!- Tom_L [Tom_L!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #emc
[23:05:02] <Tom_L> http://howto-pages.org/shootfoot.php
[23:05:08] <Aero-Tec> speaking of tool tables
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[23:05:21] <Aero-Tec> I need to set 2 of them up
[23:05:30] <Aero-Tec> one for mill
[23:05:32] <JT-Shop> why?
[23:05:38] <Aero-Tec> and one for lathe
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[23:05:59] <JT-Shop> two separate configs will have separate tool tables
[23:06:20] <Aero-Tec> 2 separate computers
[23:06:27] <JT-Shop> a mill lathe combo machine?
[23:06:40] <Aero-Tec> what is the best way to set them up
[23:06:45] <Aero-Tec> no
[23:06:52] * JT-Shop stays quiet and waits for the real question
[23:06:52] <Aero-Tec> one mill and one lathe
[23:07:08] <Aero-Tec> 2 separate machines
[23:07:38] <Tom_L> i'm trying to understand the logic in your pushbutton code
[23:07:40] <Aero-Tec> also is there good samples to use for setting them up
[23:08:25] <KimK> Somebody was comparing the Linux OS model (where the ranking is: user --> administrator ) to the Windows OS model (where the ranking is user --> administrator --> system ) and they said something like, "If Linux is a gun, and you point it at your foot and pull the trigger, Linux's job is to deliver that bullet as quickly and accurately as possible to your unsuspecting foot." I'd like to know who said that, and where, and when. I wasn't able to Go
[23:08:26] <KimK> ogle it up. Maybe you'll have better luck.
[23:08:33] <JT-Shop> yes, in the manual
[23:08:53] <Aero-Tec> is there a way to update the tool table inside emc2? or do you have to use a text editor?
[23:08:54] <KimK> Oops, flooding again, sorry. I really need that character counter, lol.
[23:09:11] <KimK> Yes, EMC2 has it's own tool table editor.
[23:09:17] <JT-Shop> Aero-Tec: what do you mean by update?
[23:09:58] <KimK> Just click on "edit tooltable" in the pull-down menu
[23:10:22] <Aero-Tec> cool
[23:10:53] <Aero-Tec> in mach there is a button you can push to update the tool table from the DRO
[23:10:54] * JT-Shop wonders why it has front and back angle with a gazillion zeros of precision
[23:11:09] <JT-Shop> yes, that is the tool offset button
[23:11:36] <Aero-Tec> guess you have to enter the numbers manual in EMC2
[23:11:37] <JT-Shop> you select the axis the tool touch off then select tool table
[23:12:08] <KimK> JT-Shop: I'll bet you a $0.9999999999 I know why, lol.
[23:12:10] <Aero-Tec> neat
[23:12:52] <JT-Shop> Aero-Tec: yes, you can enter your touch off gauge thickness or anything you want during touch off
[23:13:15] <JT-Shop> front angle 135.00000000000000000000000
[23:13:26] <KimK> JT-Shop: lol
[23:13:41] <JT-Shop> setp ranting false
[23:14:57] <KimK> We need that precise of an angle in order to pick out a particular dirt clod on the moon with our giant death ray. Doh! I wasn't supposed to say anything about that.
[23:15:27] <Aero-Tec> is there some video that shows the tool table being updated?
[23:16:21] <JT-Shop> I tried to make one on my lathe but gave up trying to get screen capture and video into Ubuntu
[23:16:49] <JT-Shop> Aero-Tec: does your lathe have a tool turret?
[23:17:07] <Aero-Tec> not yet
[23:17:13] <Aero-Tec> soon to have one
[23:17:18] <KimK> Certainly lots of EMC2 videos on YouTube, any good ones? I'll go see what I can find, you guys keep chatting.
[23:18:09] <JT-Shop> also remember that EMC2 is pretty smart and when cutter comp on a lathe it pays attention to the tool orientation you have for the current tool
[23:18:21] <JT-Shop> when using cutter ...
[23:18:43] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/lathe_lathe-user.html
[23:20:45] <Aero-Tec> I am playing around with my test unit here and getting the hang of it
[23:21:34] <JT-Shop> Aero-Tec: have you seen ngcgui and the lathe subroutines on the forum?
[23:21:57] <Aero-Tec> no
[23:22:02] <JT-Shop> I do 90% of my lathe parts with no programming at all
[23:22:04] <Aero-Tec> would like to
[23:22:16] <JT-Shop> you know where the forum is?
[23:22:40] <Aero-Tec> would have to look on the emc2 web site
[23:22:48] <JT-Shop> yep
[23:22:51] <Aero-Tec> that would be my guess as to where it is
[23:22:59] <JT-Shop> look in the subroutines section
[23:23:15] <JT-Shop> link on every page :)
[23:23:17] <Aero-Tec> will do
[23:23:30] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, can your pause/resume logic be applied to spindle on? or would that be a bad idea..
[23:23:51] <Aero-Tec> so what kind of work can you do with out any Gcode?
[23:23:57] <JT-Shop> would be a bit simpler for spindle on/off
[23:24:18] <KimK> Aero-Tec: Here's ngcgui on YouTube. No sound, as I recall. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn8T5Fw0ISs
[23:24:22] <Tom_L> i was trying to figure out the logic of the code. my head was mush last night
[23:24:29] <JT-Shop> everything except profiles that are not straight or simple angles
[23:24:33] <Tom_L> maybe i'll try again tonight
[23:25:10] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: it is a bit confusing at first as there is extra steps to make sure your running before a pause etc.
[23:25:15] <elmo40> is it difficult to setup a servo/stepper mixed machine?
[23:25:56] <Tom_L> do you mix your salad with desert too?
[23:26:18] <JT-Shop> yea, I just dump it all in the same bowl and chow down
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[23:27:32] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: the toggle2nist is the key for one button toggles and needs an is-on pin to work, so anything that has an is-on can be turned on and off with it
[23:27:37] <Aero-Tec> where on earth did all the extra tabs come from?
[23:27:43] <Tom_L> yeah
[23:27:48] <JT-Shop> ngcgui
[23:27:58] <Aero-Tec> mine just has 2 tabs
[23:28:22] <Aero-Tec> what else am I missing?
[23:28:28] <JT-Shop> if you embed ngcgui you can have as many as you need
[23:28:42] <Aero-Tec> what other cool things is there to add to EMC2?
[23:28:56] <JT-Shop> pyvcp and upcoming gladvcp
[23:29:01] <Aero-Tec> can it do threading as well?
[23:29:20] <JT-Shop> it does rigid threading very well
[23:29:29] <Aero-Tec> pyvcp?
[23:29:32] <JT-Shop> and internal and external as well
[23:29:43] <JT-Shop> python virtual control panel
[23:29:50] <Aero-Tec> some thing to do with python?
[23:29:54] <JT-Shop> you add things to the right side of Axis
[23:29:55] <Aero-Tec> ok
[23:30:12] <JT-Shop> it is python but you only use simple xml
[23:30:15] <Aero-Tec> so where can one go to find this stuff?
[23:30:18] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, would you toggle2nist.0.on, toggle2nist.0.off to the same signal?
[23:30:21] <JT-Shop> the manual
[23:30:57] <Aero-Tec> there is a ton of reading in them there manuals
[23:31:29] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/toggle2nist.9.html
[23:31:40] <Aero-Tec> was hoping to get the relevant info to just get things going and learn more later
[23:31:43] <Tom_L> well lookie there
[23:31:46] <JT-Shop> not near what they used to be
[23:32:28] <JT-Shop> Aero-Tec: if your building a machine read the Integrators manual, if you want to run it read the User manual
[23:32:42] <JT-Shop> at least in 2.4 you can follow that rule
[23:32:53] <Aero-Tec> that meant nothing to me
[23:33:06] <KimK> Aero-Tec: ngcgui is expected to be in the 2.5.0 release, whenever that is. Or you can add it yourself manually, if you are able.
[23:33:16] <Aero-Tec> I need more info before I can make heads or tails of it
[23:33:32] <JT-Shop> read the forum
[23:34:00] <JT-Shop> Tom_L: does it make more sense now?
[23:34:17] <Aero-Tec> is it hard to add ngcgui?
[23:34:30] <JT-Shop> there is a step by step on the forum
[23:34:31] <KimK> JT-Shop: You can still follow that rule. Plus the HAL manual.
[23:34:39] <Tom_L> well i'm pulling up hal config to look at something first
[23:35:35] * JT-Shop wonders why I have 5 Sharpies on this tiny makeshift desk
[23:36:28] <KimK> Aero-Tec: (re: ton of reading in the manuals) Yes, tell JT-Shop and I about it, right, JT? Nine manuals in two languages (so far).
[23:37:17] <KimK> Aero-Tec: JT and I are the docs volunteers
[23:37:37] <Aero-Tec> cool
[23:37:42] <KimK> (among other things)
[23:37:51] <Aero-Tec> it looks like a cool thing
[23:38:11] <Aero-Tec> it looks like it will take forever to learn
[23:38:17] <Aero-Tec> so much stuff
[23:39:01] -!- OoBIGeye has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[23:39:29] <KimK> It's not so bad. There are only 5 manuals in English, and one you won't need. One you'll read once (getting started). That leaves the 3 main ones: User, Integrator, and HAL.
[23:39:50] <Tom_L> this internet thing is not my friend right now
[23:39:53] <Tom_L> brb
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[23:45:36] <KimK> I'm going to see if I can mow the lawn before the sun goes down. Back in an hour or so.
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[23:46:57] <KimK> Oh, one more thing first.
[23:48:09] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, my thrown together test platform: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant.jpg
[23:49:34] <JT-Shop> neat!
[23:50:07] <elmo40> where did you get the mpg?
[23:50:09] <JT-Shop> what is the board on the left?
[23:50:21] <Tom_L> 7i43, 7i47
[23:50:43] <elmo40> is it powered by USB?
[23:50:49] <Tom_L> 47 used as single ended
[23:50:52] <Tom_L> yes for now
[23:51:01] <Tom_L> see the plug :)
[23:51:44] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, spindle has 'is-on' but what signal should i be toggling with nist?
[23:52:03] <Tom_L> there's several i could think of to choose from
[23:52:23] <Tom_L> stop, start, fwd, rev
[23:53:01] <JT-Shop> halui.spindle.start/stop
[23:53:39] <KimK> Aero-Tec: You were asking earlier about PyVCP (and the newer GladeVCP). Here's a screenshot of a knee mill with 24-tool changer I'm working on lately: http://imagebin.org/158147
[23:54:22] <JT-Shop> KimK: is supposed to be mowing the grass
[23:54:51] <Aero-Tec> I am playing with installing ngcgui
[23:55:05] <Aero-Tec> need to find the INI dir
[23:55:12] <Aero-Tec> or the dir with the INI
[23:55:13] <JT-Shop> it is really neat when you get it set up
[23:55:31] <KimK> JT-Shop: Yes, indeed! OK, now I'm off to mow the lawn. Back in a while.
[23:55:33] <JT-Shop> it is in with the rest of your config files
[23:55:46] <JT-Shop> how did you create the config?
[23:56:18] <JT-Shop> or look in emc2/configs/name-of-your-config directory
[23:56:18] <Aero-Tec> was it much work to do that?
[23:56:25] <Aero-Tec> looks nice
[23:57:07] <Aero-Tec> cool
[23:57:11] <JT-Shop> look in the Integrators manual for some samples
[23:58:59] <Aero-Tec> I am in etc/emc2 but see no configs dir
[23:59:13] <JT-Shop> no, not there
[23:59:21] <JT-Shop> did you create a config?
[23:59:24] <JT-Shop> somehow?
[23:59:36] <Aero-Tec> ok
[23:59:47] <JT-Shop> stepconf or pick a sample config
[23:59:49] <Aero-Tec> found it