#emc | Logs for 2011-06-05

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[01:05:51] <elmo40> very interesting. 'additive manufacturing' http://qurl.org/N91
[01:06:17] <elmo40> seems like they renamed prototyping ;)
[01:06:53] <Valen> not really its just a different operation
[01:07:16] <Valen> some of them are getting closer to milled parts in terms of mechanical properties
[01:07:29] <elmo40> because they use metals.
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[09:40:41] <The_Ball> JT-Shop, jthornton, your instructions from http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant works very well, however the reversal of axis part is overly complicated. It's possible to reverse direction of the axis using input.0.XXX.scale and changing that to a negative value
[09:40:59] <The_Ball> It seems only you/admin can edit the page though
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[10:01:41] <mrsunshine> gah now i want to build
[10:01:43] <mrsunshine> build build build
[10:02:04] <mrsunshine> but first i need a plane face or whatever so i can fix the stupid mill .... sigh
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[10:37:48] <jthornton> The_Ball: anyone should be able to edit the page
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[11:44:20] <Loetmichel> re@home from LandKamp...
[12:01:33] <JT-Shop> The_Ball: I've fixed the wiki page, thanks for the info
[12:03:21] <The_Ball> JT-Shop, sweet, btw page read "read-only" for me;
[12:03:32] <JT-Shop> strange
[12:04:28] <JT-Shop> back when I did that I knew much less about EMC than I do now... and it was the only thing I could get to work
[12:06:15] <JT-Shop> I just fixed my plasma up and it does simplify the code a lot
[12:07:52] <The_Ball> rtfm! "and in the box marked 'Administrator Password' enter 'emc'" that might help
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[12:20:31] <The_Ball> JT-Shop, btw I'm using the exact same Logitech rumble pad, but wireless, very handy
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[12:41:09] <JT-Shop> I need a wireless one, the cord is a PIA
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[13:58:58] <syyl> hmm
[13:59:24] <syyl> is there a simple way to change the maximum spindle speed via a button in the axis interface?
[13:59:37] <dave_1> where can I find documentation on the velocity to dac pseudotach that cradek put on his machine?
[13:59:41] <syyl> like, toggle between 3000 and 6000 as maximum
[14:05:13] <JT-Shop> might be something in halui syyl
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[14:18:37] <dave_1> good morning anders
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[14:36:04] <mrsunshine_> hmm, this cant be "good", 610 rpm is aparently the lowest rpm i can go with the lathe
[14:38:21] <syyl> that begs for a vdf :D
[14:38:38] <syyl> vfd Oo
[14:38:53] <mrsunshine_> syyl, have one extra but it needs a cabinett
[14:39:23] <syyl> had that one on my mill sit on the table for over one year :D
[14:39:28] <syyl> no housing
[14:39:55] <syyl> was always a bit scarry because of the chips
[14:40:02] <mrsunshine_> syyl, hehe :P
[14:40:14] <mrsunshine_> and i have to look up how to hook it up etc etc
[14:40:21] <syyl> (dont try this at home)
[14:40:22] <syyl> :D
[14:40:22] <mrsunshine_> danfoss for 1.5kw motors =9
[14:40:55] <syyl> should be suitable for that lathe :)
[14:41:13] <mrsunshine_> i think the motor on the lathe is about 0.75kw
[14:42:28] <mrsunshine_> that would make for two vfds in my little machine shop ... got a small one for the mini mill also =9
[14:42:30] <mrsunshine_> =)
[14:43:43] <mrsunshine_> its either a vfd or make some pulley system to draw down the speed
[14:43:51] <mrsunshine_> what would be the lowest speed required for a lathe? :)
[14:46:09] <syyl> 100rpm
[14:46:19] <syyl> for a bigger lathe even slower
[14:46:59] <syyl> when youre threading or using big drills, you need the lower speeds
[14:47:15] <syyl> also when unsing a countersink or a reamer
[14:48:04] <mrsunshine_> i would need a pulley on the lathe that is about 700mm diameter to get it down to 100 rpm on the lowest :P
[14:48:50] <syyl> my chinese 9x20 has a "backgear"
[14:49:03] <syyl> with a toothed pulley/belt
[14:50:35] <mrsunshine_> and the gears on the lathe sounds like hell and back again ... three times :/
[14:50:54] <syyl> are gears only for the leadscrew?
[14:51:55] <mrsunshine_> yeah i guess, for threading etc also
[14:51:57] <mrsunshine_> changeable
[14:52:06] <mrsunshine_> the one that is milled into the spindle is very worn ...
[14:52:20] <syyl> i disengage my gears, when not in use...
[14:52:24] <syyl> chinese gears...
[14:52:35] <syyl> they are made with a chissel :D
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[14:56:39] <mhaberler> hi
[14:57:36] <mrsunshine_> syyl well i do also, but i like the power feed =)
[14:58:09] <mrsunshine_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngu9j08VUfM&NR=1 <-- that is how the belt assenbly is supposed to look i guess, but they have removed the first stage
[14:58:22] <mrsunshine_> coupling the motor directly to the spindle
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[15:00:38] <syyl> hope you clean your lathe a bit better :D
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[15:02:59] <syyl> yeah
[15:03:08] <syyl> got my vfd hooked up to emc :D
[15:12:36] <The_Ball> syyl, good stuff, modbus or analog?
[15:12:58] <syyl> analog via the 5i20
[15:13:30] <syyl> emc is like a puzzle for me
[15:13:30] <The_Ball> I'm just about to hook mine up, but I think I'll try the modbus hal component
[15:13:44] <syyl> as i am more the mechanics guy...
[15:13:55] <syyl> electronics are a book with seven seals for me...
[15:14:26] <The_Ball> well one piece of the puzzle at the time
[15:15:32] <syyl> thats how i get it done :)
[15:15:44] <syyl> and a lot of reading and asking..
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[15:18:12] <syyl> but i like emc so far
[15:18:18] <syyl> used mach3 before...
[15:18:28] <syyl> but thats only ugly :D
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[15:26:30] <The_Ball> cool, just learned about G64 Px.xxx (blend tolerance mode), that's going to speed up pcb2gcode's 90degree pixelated moves a huge amount
[15:27:13] <syyl> had always problems with pcb2gcode
[15:27:27] <The_Ball> what do you use now then?
[15:27:37] <syyl> milloutlines.ulp
[15:27:48] <syyl> then convert it to dxf
[15:27:54] <syyl> clean it up in qcad
[15:28:08] <syyl> create the toolways in sheetcam
[15:28:18] <syyl> not THAT simple at all :D
[15:28:22] <The_Ball> Is .ulp a Eagle thing?
[15:28:27] <syyl> yeah
[15:28:46] <syyl> the milloutlines script is included by default
[15:28:58] <The_Ball> ah, I've been using geda so that's not an option
[15:29:09] <syyl> oh
[15:29:10] <syyl> ok
[15:33:49] <The_Ball> syyl, did a test cut yesterday, still dialing things in after converting to a 5i23 http://wigen.net/workshop/cnc/20110604-2142d.jpg
[15:34:20] <The_Ball> Looks like I used slightly too much overlap between pases and perhaps a little too deep
[15:35:13] <syyl> do you use a engraver?
[15:35:18] <syyl> or a endmill
[15:35:35] <The_Ball> a 60 degree carbide bit in a dremmel at 30k
[15:36:03] <syyl> you should try a single lip engraving cutter
[15:36:08] <syyl> they cut much cleaner
[15:36:19] <The_Ball> what width do you get them in?
[15:37:01] <syyl> they are also availabe in different angles, i normaly use a 60deg one
[15:37:24] <The_Ball> do you have a link?
[15:37:54] <syyl> http://www.datron.de/typo3temp/fl_realurl_image/gravierstichel-03-38.jpg
[15:38:23] <The_Ball> ah, that kind of tool
[15:38:38] <syyl> love them :D
[15:38:47] <The_Ball> oh good, it cuts gold, that's always a problem
[15:38:47] <syyl> very cheap
[15:38:54] <syyl> hehe
[15:40:29] <The_Ball> what sort of feed rates do you use?
[15:41:43] <syyl> 40000rpm / 1500mm/min
[15:42:14] <syyl> but they also work at 6000rpm / 150mm/min
[15:42:25] <mrsunshine_> hmm
[15:42:59] <mrsunshine_> a potentiometer for speed dialing and just a fwd, stop, rev button should be enough to get the lathe running with this vfd then
[15:43:19] <syyl> yeah
[15:43:36] <mrsunshine_> but would like a cabinett ... but atleast i can try it without :P
[15:43:39] <syyl> emergency stop wouldnt be to bad :D
[15:44:13] <mrsunshine_> well isnt that just on the line in ? :P
[15:44:16] <mrsunshine_> slam it and cut all power
[15:44:26] <syyl> you can do it
[15:44:48] <syyl> but some vfds have a seperate input for a e-stop
[15:45:02] <syyl> as long as it stops... :D
[15:45:16] <The_Ball> is it the output of a VFD you can't switch? magic smoke comes out
[15:45:31] <syyl> some vdfs dont like it :D
[15:45:31] <mrsunshine_> The_Ball, huh ?
[15:45:50] <mrsunshine_> syyl, well an emergency stop i dont realy care about the vfd, cause then my arm is being pulled into the lathe
[15:45:50] <syyl> put a switch between motor and vfd
[15:46:11] <The_Ball> mrsunshine_, my vfd has strict warnings about disconnecting the motor while the vfd is operating, basically "it will blow up"
[15:46:14] <syyl> and some manufacturers vfds will burn up
[15:46:27] <syyl> siemens for example
[15:47:12] <mrsunshine_> havent played much with vfds at all
[15:50:57] <Loetmichel> Vfds CAN blow um when disconnected from a running motor
[15:51:57] <Loetmichel> but if the vfd is put in "disable" milliseconds before the opening of the spitz most likley the VFD will survive
[15:52:08] <Loetmichel> s/spitz/switch
[15:53:27] <The_Ball> is it related to coils inside the VFD still passing current and when interrupted generate huge voltage spikes?
[16:08:25] <Loetmichel> yes
[16:09:03] <mrsunshine_> gah i find vfds confusing :)
[16:09:25] <mrsunshine_> trying to figure out how many control wires i need from the vfd to the lathe
[16:09:41] <mrsunshine_> but cant figure out what is stop, start, rev ... as they all seem to mix to left and right :/
[16:09:55] <mrsunshine_> speed ref is simple, 3 cables .. +10v, ref, com
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[16:11:29] <mrsunshine_> and should it be quick stop, stop, dc injection ?
[16:12:12] <Loetmichel> that depends
[16:13:19] <mrsunshine_> seems it wants a connection from terminal 12 to 27, when programmed for stop the vfd will go into stop mode if that connection is broken, and wait for a new start command
[16:13:36] <Loetmichel> for "emergency stop" i would stet the VFD to ""quick stop with dc injection" and cut the power TO the vfd AFTER the Motor has stopped via delay relais
[16:13:44] <Loetmichel> NOT switch the motor of
[16:13:45] <Loetmichel> f
[16:14:35] <mrsunshine_> gah, i cant do this kind of stuff :/
[16:14:36] <mrsunshine_> i hate it
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[17:16:08] <syyl__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvthbWNVAc8
[17:16:10] <syyl__> works :D
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[17:35:04] <JT-Shop> neat!
[17:45:17] <mrsunshine_> hmm, think im starting to figure it out but dont get if start needs to be down while rev is engaged
[17:45:44] <mrsunshine_> or if reverse is like start but in different direction ... that is, if its "1 1" for rev, "1 0" for ordenary operation
[17:47:22] <syyl> you can set that in the parameters
[17:47:26] <syyl> on the most vfds
[17:58:15] <mrsunshine_> hmm looks like its atleast by default that you put the rev either 1 or 0, then start
[17:58:24] <mrsunshine_> and it will go the given direction
[17:58:55] <syyl> that was also default on my siemens
[17:59:50] <JT-Shop> after weighing all my options I have come to the conclusion that a nap is the best option at this point in the day
[18:00:07] <syyl> hr
[18:00:10] <syyl> sounds good
[18:00:47] <syyl> i am going for the bathtub
[18:12:32] <mrsunshine_> hmm i should connect this thing up and try stuff with it
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[18:20:40] <mrsunshine_> so 7 cables in total, +10v, ref (back), com.. and then +24V, stop, start, start rev (impulse starts)
[18:20:49] <mrsunshine_> that would fit a tp cable =)
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[18:30:36] <tom3p> anyone know of an example of AsciiSTL class in Vismach ? I'd like to model a turbine blade
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[18:47:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: CODE WORD
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[19:32:38] <Gensor> I have several multimeters, however I would like to purchase one with a logic indicator. Can someone recommend a good source. Thanks!
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[19:42:59] <Gensor> for use in determining UVW outputs as you turn the shaft of the motor. Can I assume a cheap-o will work???
[19:54:21] <Gensor> Can someone explain the process to debug the wires on a servo?
[19:55:38] <archivist_emc> debug or reverse engineer to understand what they are
[19:55:52] <Gensor> reverse engineer
[19:56:46] <JT-Shop> take the end cap off
[19:56:49] <Gensor> I am looking for an overview at this time, to determine if I can do it with my digital multimeter, or if I need a logic indicator etc
[19:56:59] <archivist_emc> no 1 google for manuals/info
[19:57:22] <Gensor> I already have a guestimate of the pinout, but will try to confirm
[19:57:45] <archivist_emc> removing the cover as jt says to confirm
[20:00:54] <tom3p> found one! apt-get opencascade-examples, theres an example propeller in STL format
[20:04:40] * JT-Shop feels like a door man
[20:06:39] <tom3p> and free-cad views it ok ( now to hack off 3 props and the hub & crank ) its a real airfoil, a twisted concave form
[20:14:59] <pcw_home> Gensor: I think a couple3 LEDs with series resistors would be easier to interpret than a meter if you are checking encoder output wires
[20:15:16] <mrsunshine_> hmm
[20:15:37] <mrsunshine_> cant descide on what to go with, impulse start or just start stop rev without impulse
[20:17:13] <syyl_> got a switch or a button?
[20:18:32] <Gensor> PCW: Thanks
[20:18:33] <mrsunshine_> i have a switch that goes fwd, stop, rev on the lathe
[20:18:45] <mrsunshine_> so i was thinking of using that, then just put a big old pot to dial in the speed
[20:19:00] <syyl_> then it should be start / rev without impulse
[20:20:57] <mrsunshine_> but also i want a closed loop, so would have to hack a tachometer together somehow :P
[20:21:08] <mrsunshine_> so i can get 0 - 10V
[20:22:54] <syyl_> hrhr
[20:23:14] <mrsunshine_> but then where do i put the e-stop ... damn stupid thing
[20:23:23] <mrsunshine_> i could just put it to cut the power to the switches tho
[20:23:27] <mrsunshine_> as that would stop it :P
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[20:55:47] <Roguish> hey all. what pins (or signals) are the F1 and F2 keys linked to? yes, F1 is estop, but what pin precisely. F2 is 'power on', but what pin?
[20:55:57] <Roguish> In Axis GUI.
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[20:56:49] <mrsunshine_> Roguish, i guess what you have set E-stop to to be in the configuration ?
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[20:58:07] <Roguish> the Estop is ok. i'm doing a remote physical switch.
[20:58:31] <Jymmm> O_o
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[20:59:04] <Roguish> it's primarily the Power On I what to get at. again for a remote button, such that the GUI button and the remote button need to be set together.
[20:59:09] * Jymmm hopes that's a non-computer estop switch
[20:59:39] <Roguish> Jymmm: heck no. I believe in physical buttons for Estops !!!!! and limits.
[20:59:51] <Jymmm> Roguish: safety relay?
[21:00:44] <Roguish> no, not a real safety relay for the installation, just a red mushroom. though I have used safety relays in another system.
[21:01:34] <Jymmm> double pole at least?
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[21:09:33] <skuhnkworks> Roguish: look at the wiki with classic ladder examples.
[21:11:17] <Roguish> yes. CL is fine. I would like to find the pin or signal for the F2 'Power On' function. any clues?
[21:11:25] <skuhnkworks> like http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Sample_HAL_And_ClassicLadder
[21:13:16] <Roguish> all i can find are: halui.machine.on & halui.machine.off & halui.machine.is-on
[21:14:45] <skuhnkworks> I seem to use emcmot.00.enable (which turns on when f2 is hit (or machine on))
[21:15:52] <skuhnkworks> or do you want to turn the machine on exteranlly>?
[21:16:39] <skuhnkworks> then it probably is a halui pin of some kind
[21:17:43] <Roguish> i would like the machine to 'power on' when BOTH an external switch and the GUI button are on.
[21:22:07] <Jymmm> is that to prevent accidental GUI fubarness?
[21:22:19] <Roguish> yes.
[21:22:37] <Roguish> using the realtime comp 'and2'.
[21:22:47] <Jymmm> I'd replace that "switch" with a "button" and safety relay personally.
[21:23:07] <Roguish> i have my external switch no problem. just need to add in the screen button.
[21:24:44] <Roguish> if i know where the screen button goes, i can intercept it and put it into the and2
[21:26:39] <Roguish> the external switch can be anything..... safety relay, button, switch, whatever. i just don't what the machine to start or stop 'cause of my fat, fumbling, fingers.
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[21:27:25] <JT-Shop> Roguish: take a look at motion.enable http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
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[21:28:54] <Roguish> JT-Shop: now that's looking pretty good.
[21:30:05] <Roguish> so that's a PIN. what do you reckon is controlling it?
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[21:32:07] <JT-Shop> it will be in your hal file
[21:32:30] <JT-Shop> I think
[21:33:58] <JT-Shop> uh, might be true by default
[21:34:31] <Roguish> no, don't find that one explicitly.
[21:35:01] <JT-Shop> looks like it is true by default
[21:35:33] <Roguish> think i can override the default with my external switch?
[21:36:12] <JT-Shop> looks like if you set it false you can't enable Axis
[21:38:11] <JT-Shop> so if you connect that pin to your parallel port input pin and it is off then you can't put Axis into run mode
[21:38:33] <Roguish> that's pretty much what i want to do. i'll try it.
[21:39:02] <Roguish> i'm running a 5i20 so i have lots of i/o's
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[21:40:36] <Roguish> and i just found i can save a 'watch list'. whoo hooooo.
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[21:49:31] <Tom_itx> ok the spindle pulley is done
[21:49:44] <Tom_itx> a bit tight since i got a used reamer for it
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[21:50:22] <Tom_itx> can't complain at scrap prices though
[21:50:26] <Roguish> JT-Shop: have it coded in hal and wired to a simple switch. works fine. does what i am after.
[21:50:35] <Roguish> thanks.
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[21:51:03] * Tom_itx JT-Shop is now known as JT_Coolshop
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[21:55:51] <JT-Shop> not till I get everything moved from hotgarage to coolshop :)
[21:57:15] <JT-Shop> if that is what your talking about??
[21:57:24] <Tom_itx> yup
[21:57:59] <Roguish> JT-Shop: definitely does what i want. thanks.
[21:58:03] <JT-Shop> it does stay nice in there and the AC rarely runs
[21:58:16] <JT-Shop> Roguish: your welcome
[21:59:08] <Tom_itx> get a swamp cooler
[21:59:15] <Tom_itx> would be rather fitting ehh?
[21:59:36] <JT-Shop> won't work in high humidity areas
[22:00:22] <JT-Shop> we are usually up in the 80's or so but today it is 40% so 95F don't seem so bad
[22:00:37] <Jymmm> no AC in the new shop?
[22:00:58] <JT-Shop> I have 2 AC's in the shop
[22:01:10] <Jymmm> big screen tv?
[22:01:17] <Jymmm> iced keg?
[22:01:18] <Tom_itx> once the machines fire up you may need em
[22:01:44] <JT-Shop> didn't think of the TV but the kegerator could go out there
[22:02:09] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: that's what I was thinking when I installed the second one
[22:02:11] <Jymmm> Oh and the leather recliners
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[22:03:07] <JT-Shop> when I switch on the magnetass switch in the recliner I want to be close to my bed :)
[22:03:21] <Tom_itx> now to figure out a layout for this pendant
[22:03:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: VERY VERY comfortable http://www.theclassyhome.com/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7375&furniture=Sonoma+-+Black+Rocker+Recliner
[22:03:47] <JT-Shop> now to figure out if I want to work on anything else today or not
[22:03:54] <Tom_itx> too damn hot
[22:04:17] * Tom_itx hands JT-Shop an iced mug
[22:04:26] <JT-Shop> I have a pair like that but with blue leather
[22:04:50] <JT-Shop> see the magnetass switch on the side?
[22:05:21] <Jymmm> the lever?
[22:06:58] <JT-Shop> yep
[22:07:06] <Jymmm> All I know is that I can take a nap in it and dont need any pillows to prop up my head
[22:07:17] <Jymmm> and I'm 6'4"
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[22:08:22] <Jymmm> and why do you call it a "magentass" switch/lever?
[22:16:30] <JT-Shop> once I pull that my ass don't want to get out of the chair like a magnet has me locked in
[22:19:36] <Jymmm> ROTFLMAO
[22:19:49] <Jymmm> I'll take that as an endorsment
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