#emc | Logs for 2011-06-02

[00:00:58] <jdhNC> oh, I guess I really need the device for the schematic first
[00:01:07] <Tom_itx> opto?
[00:01:21] <jdhNC> nope, TI ADS1100
[00:02:00] <jdhNC> I haven't used eagle in over a year and I wasn't very good at it then.
[00:02:09] <Tom_itx> just ask
[00:02:46] <jdhNC> do you have to do the schematic first, or can you just layout a board with whatever things you want?
[00:03:00] <Tom_itx> you're better off doing a schematic
[00:03:08] <Tom_itx> because you get error checking if you do
[00:03:29] <Tom_itx> you can just do a board if you want
[00:03:31] <Tom_itx> i never do
[00:04:12] <jdhNC> what do you call the parts in the library that you add to the schematic?
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[00:04:39] <Tom_itx> symbols
[00:04:55] <Tom_itx> not sure what you mean
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[00:05:17] <jdhNC> if I go to teh TI site, find the part, will they have a symbol for eagle?
[00:05:26] <Tom_itx> no
[00:05:36] <Tom_itx> you probably have to draw it
[00:05:48] <Tom_itx> unless you can find a TI lib
[00:06:00] <Tom_itx> or go to cadsoftusa.com and search their libs for one
[00:06:00] <jdhNC> there is a TI lbr, but no ads1100
[00:06:10] <Tom_itx> ^^
[00:06:26] <jdhNC> it is really an SOT-23, but I put them on some 6pin carrier boards
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[00:07:13] <jdhNC> can eagle import any other symbol format?
[00:08:19] <Tom_itx> i never have tried
[00:08:26] <jdhNC> how do you searcH?
[00:10:20] <Tom_itx> go to add a part in the schematic and it will have a search dialog
[00:10:24] <Tom_itx> i don't use it much
[00:11:48] <jdhNC> so, there is no symbol for this ADC, do I have to make one?
[00:12:08] <Tom_itx> probably
[00:12:14] <Tom_itx> find another adc and use the symbol
[00:12:21] <Tom_itx> adjust the pins
[00:12:58] <jdhNC> but, I need another one with the same package?
[00:13:16] <Tom_itx> all you want it the symbol right now
[00:13:21] <Tom_itx> is*
[00:22:08] <Tom_itx> anybody know of a pulley / belt app that will calculate different pulley ratios with the same belt length?
[00:22:42] <Tom_itx> same distance or close between centers
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[02:35:14] <willburrrr2003> what is absolute distance mode?
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[02:38:26] <Tom_itx> not incremental
[02:38:34] <Tom_itx> everything is from a reference point
[02:38:39] <Tom_itx> instead of additive
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[02:39:39] <willburrrr2003> like from my z0.0 touch off spot?
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[02:44:08] <willburrrr2003> I'm running the OD.ngc subroutine and I can't get it to cut even Z-05.0 , gives me a - z limit error. The subroutine sets absolute distance mode. I was wondering if this was causing my problem? My facing subroutine runs great, but can't get the machine to turn down my stock now that it's faced....
[02:44:57] <Tom_itx> i'm smart enough with emc to get us both into trouble
[02:45:07] <Tom_itx> better wait for someone else
[02:45:37] <willburrrr2003> :-p
[02:45:50] <willburrrr2003> hehe, no worries
[02:47:04] <Tom_itx> absolute mode i believe would always reference back to zero
[02:47:21] <Tom_itx> incremental would start from the current position
[02:48:06] <willburrrr2003> I did get to make a nice facing cut on a 4" piece of aluminum roundstock...the original face was from a horible portaband cut ;) took awhile going slow and light cuts to get through the nasty...but it looks fantastic now :D
[02:48:52] <willburrrr2003> do you mean that it would reference back to machine zero, or touched off zero?
[02:49:30] <Valen> where would I get shielded power cable by the meter?
[02:49:31] <Tom_itx> that's an emc thing. you better ask somebody else
[02:49:34] <Valen> for mah VFD
[02:49:51] <Tom_itx> how much power?
[02:50:22] <Valen> theoretically 10A, but i havent seen over 3
[02:50:24] <willburrrr2003> Valen, where are you located?
[02:50:45] <Valen> sydney australia
[02:51:09] <Valen> willburrrr2003: when you say absolute mode what do you mean?
[02:51:42] <willburrrr2003> ahhhh, sorry a bit to far for me to help you out ... I work in a control panels for a living and have wire supplies at my disposal ;)
[02:52:10] <Valen> well the closest place to me wants $30 for shipping anyway lol
[02:52:24] <Tom_itx> somebody wanna check my math: i've got a 1.625" pulley and i need a ratio of ~1.785:1 ... i get the smaller pulley as .910" diameter
[02:52:37] <Tom_itx> sound about right?
[02:52:51] <willburrrr2003> a subroutine I am trying to run is setting absolute mode, so first I was asking what absolute mode was and second if it may be generating the error I am getting
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[02:53:37] <Valen> best bet with this stuff is to google the gcode
[02:53:46] <Valen> i believe absolute mode is normal
[02:54:13] <Valen> ie g1 x10 moves to x10, in incremental mode it moves the tool 10mm further along x regardless of where it is
[02:55:03] <willburrrr2003> Tom_tx, I get 1.62435
[02:55:24] <Tom_itx> the larger pulley is given
[02:55:29] <Tom_itx> at 1.625"
[02:55:51] <Valen> sounds somewhere near it to me Tom_itx
[02:55:55] <Tom_itx> ok
[02:55:56] <willburrrr2003> Valen, that makes sense. Sounds like the mode I want it working in
[02:56:05] <Tom_itx> i rounded the result a bit
[02:56:08] <Valen> i've never seen anything done in incremental
[02:56:14] <Tom_itx> really?
[02:56:27] <Tom_itx> all the stuff we ever ran was incremental
[02:56:31] <Valen> everybody uses cam, it does everything in absolute
[02:56:48] <Tom_itx> well, you're upside down too
[02:56:59] <Valen> otherwise you could get rounding errors building up and other weirdness to my mind
[02:57:00] <willburrrr2003> i'm using NGCGUI subroutines to generate my code
[02:57:25] <Valen> well if its saying its going below the z limit its saying your going to run out of machine
[02:57:40] <Valen> IE the g code moves the tool further than your machine can go
[02:57:58] <willburrrr2003> yes, so I tried increasing my softlimits by 4" and it still gives me the error
[02:58:28] <Valen> solving this kind of thing is usually fairly straight forward
[02:58:33] <willburrrr2003> there is 3.5" of actual space before my z hits it's negative limit switch
[02:58:45] <Valen> you need to run through the g code line by line and see whats causing the problem
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[02:59:00] <Valen> or if it gives you a line number that is causing the error
[03:00:21] <willburrrr2003> it gives me a line number, so I saved the g-code that was generated and opened it in editor, there is no line 52 in it....would it be a line in the subroutine that the g-code file is calling maybe?
[03:00:39] <Valen> i don't know how the subroutine stuff in EMC works
[03:00:46] <Valen> does it load the file anyway?
[03:00:54] <cradek> willburrrr2003: yes it may be that
[03:01:08] <willburrrr2003> it loads the file just fine, just won't run it past loading the tool
[03:01:23] <Valen> look at the display in axis and see what its doing
[03:01:54] <Valen> i believe the coordinates are shown to the side
[03:02:19] <willburrrr2003> Valen, the tool symbol jops to the far right of my screen but the cooridinates don't change
[03:02:21] <Valen> so you will be able to see how much Z height its using (from z 10 to z-14 on the scale)
[03:02:31] <willburrrr2003> Jumps*
[03:02:34] <Valen> yeah don't look at the tool itself yet
[03:02:44] <Valen> look at the white trace of what it wants to cut
[03:02:54] <Valen> and the red measurements outside that
[03:03:05] <Valen> they show what it wants to cut
[03:03:06] <willburrrr2003> nope
[03:03:16] <cradek> a change in tool offset will cause position to jump, but the coordinates stay the same
[03:03:19] <willburrrr2003> no measurements outside the red box
[03:03:31] <Valen> http://www.britishideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/axis-small.thumbnail.gif
[03:03:43] <Valen> see the 120.8 in that image?
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[03:04:09] <willburrrr2003> yes I see it
[03:04:13] <Valen> http://www.bambachcables.com.au/emc.html is better
[03:04:25] <Valen> see how you can see the 116.1 on there
[03:04:41] <Valen> and at the left end of the line 00, and the right again the 116.1
[03:04:53] <Valen> that is like a bounding box for the moves it wants to make
[03:05:22] <Valen> it sounds like that box is going outside your machine limits
[03:05:27] <willburrrr2003> Yes I went outside earlier and it shows the measurement in bold red until it's corrected
[03:07:25] <Valen> you need to find what movement in your code is going too far and fix that
[03:07:36] <Valen> also check that your touched off in the right place
[03:07:57] <Valen> ie the 0,0,0 in the gcode matches the 0,0,0 in the real world
[03:08:00] <willburrrr2003> cradek, do you mean that even though coordinates stay same because the axis hasn't moved, that the new tools position changes because I touched off my tools and it knows where each one sits
[03:08:13] <cradek> yes, that's the whole point
[03:08:29] <cradek> the end of the tool is somewhere else on the machine, but you want the coordinates to stay the same
[03:09:04] <willburrrr2003> ok, makes a lot of sense
[03:10:06] <willburrrr2003> I just tried it again, and it drew the tool paths this time but gives the same error, none of the paths go outside the bounding box...will have to dig deeper into the code
[03:10:14] <cradek> wellll maybe I'm thinking about it wrong
[03:10:18] <cradek> I think it might be late
[03:10:45] <cradek> the coordinates should change if you change the tool but don't move the machine
[03:10:58] <cradek> in AXIS, relative will show a change - absolute will not
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[03:12:15] <willburrrr2003> Ok, Cradek: I believe that they are doing just that on a tool change
[03:14:08] <willburrrr2003> Valen I am using a g54 z00. offset from the face of my work. relative cooridinates show z0.0, but machine coordinates are -6.###
[03:14:10] <cradek> sorry about the misinformation - jeez
[03:14:59] <willburrrr2003> no worries, you have been a lot of help as I have been trying to get this machine running and its much appreciated
[03:19:28] <willburrrr2003> the file cancels tool lenght offset...could this be the issue?
[03:27:13] <willburrrr2003> cradek, turns out I was wrong, when I run the program, the z makes a massive jump to positive 7.5, motors don't move and the tool on screen shoots off to the left outside the red box
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[03:27:52] <willburrrr2003> the line trace it makes for the move is yellow, like I was jogging
[03:29:31] <cradek> sounds like your tool offset is bogusly large
[03:29:39] <Valen> check what cordinate system its using too
[03:30:23] <willburrrr2003> I set my tool offsets using g56, and had no offsets in effect
[03:31:13] <willburrrr2003> offset for tool is -0.6614526
[03:31:52] <cradek> then maybe the tool you had loaded before that one had a bogus offset
[03:32:30] <willburrrr2003> the one before was my facing tool, it worked great. it's ofset is -5.725
[03:32:37] <willburrrr2003> eeeek
[03:32:43] <willburrrr2003> -.5725
[03:33:04] <cradek> switching from -.5 to -.6 won't cause a 7 inch jump
[03:33:14] <willburrrr2003> I agree
[03:33:35] <cradek> if they are T1 and T2, MDI yourself some G43H1 and G43H2 and see what it does
[03:33:41] <Valen> its not something like inches and mm is it?
[03:34:38] <willburrrr2003> nope working in inches, and giving measurements in inches
[03:34:56] <Valen> just checking your gcode doesn't change it or anything silly
[03:35:22] <willburrrr2003> I appreciate the thought, nothins silly until I get it working ;)
[03:36:08] <willburrrr2003> g43h1 makes the massive jump, but motors don't move
[03:36:56] <cradek> g43h1 / g49 makes a big jump?
[03:37:02] <willburrrr2003> g43h2 goes from where g43h1 ended and went a small jump down and to the right
[03:37:02] <cradek> then T1 has a big offset
[03:38:59] <willburrrr2003> the .6### number I posted above is right from the tool table z offset before I re-loaded emc now its 6.5 and my tool one is 6.5#### too
[03:39:40] <willburrrr2003> so now both tools are -6.5ish
[03:45:38] <billhome> is Pycam decent for simple 2D routing paths?
[03:46:00] <Tom_itx> there was something else...
[03:46:06] <Tom_itx> sheetcam or something like that
[03:46:15] <Tom_itx> for sheetmetal or flat patterns
[03:46:21] <Tom_itx> i forget the name of it
[03:53:06] <willburrrr2003> things still not right on the screen, but it's making the cut now
[03:54:54] <willburrrr2003> i need to ground my shielded wires to my limit switches, I get an intermittant limit switch trip...guessing stray signal noise
[04:10:02] <billhome> I removed my limit's for just that reason.
[04:15:47] <pcw_home> A small capacitor (say .01 uF) across the sensing input can usually fix this (or use the debounce comp)
[04:21:32] <willburrrr2003> I'll try grounding the shields on the wires tomorrow and see it that fixes the problem, them maybe the debounce if grounding the shields doesn't fix it
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[07:18:33] <Loetmichel> elmo401: which cases?
[07:18:46] <Loetmichel> good morning btw.
[07:31:45] <mrsunshine> yeap like i thought, its a southbend clone with some differences =)
[07:31:50] <mrsunshine> anyone have a southbend lathe? :)
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[07:33:54] <mrsunshine> fromt he pictures i can find it looks like those realy small oil cups to put a couple of drops in now and then
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[07:40:19] * Loetmichel is cleaning his miniature CNC mitt and C0-lathe to put them in the trunk of my car: going to a helicoptermodel-convention... may be convenient to have some CNC there to replace broken parts ;-)
[07:40:31] <Loetmichel> s/mitt/mill
[07:40:54] <Loetmichel> 4 days, 100++ people with quadcopters....
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[08:27:35] <mrsunshine> hmm, can oil desolve plastic? :)
[08:35:41] <Loetmichel> of course
[08:36:02] <mrsunshine> thinking of how to make the oil cups, i want them to be see throught :P
[08:40:25] <Loetmichel> make them out of PC
[08:40:34] <Loetmichel> that should be oil resistant
[08:43:11] <mrsunshine> pc ?
[08:46:22] <mrsunshine> polycarbonate ?
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[09:01:48] -gibson.freenode.net:#emc- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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[09:23:55] <Paragon39> Hello All, is pwmgen capable of the following? I wish to set the pwm output to 80Hz (12.5ms period) with an on width duration ranging from 8%-9.8% (1ms-1.225ms) of the pwm?
[09:43:28] <Loetmichel> mrsunshine: polycarbonate
[09:43:35] <Loetmichel> should be oil resistant
[09:43:47] <Loetmichel> also called macrolon or lexan
[09:46:32] * Loetmichel is sitting in the bath tub, installing the cad and postprocessor on my new x60s and watering t be clean for the Convention... still have to loas the CNC and lathe in the trunk , tent and some material and then i woll go to the helicopter-convention...
[09:51:57] <Loetmichel> OHA. Installing coreldraw8 from cd is drawing HEAVY on the laptop battery ;.)
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[10:00:55] <maximilian_h> Hello
[10:01:12] <maximilian_h> is there a way to have a "Home All" button in axis ?
[10:01:52] <maximilian_h> Right now is have to order the homing of each axis seperately
[10:02:10] <maximilian_h> s/is have/I have/
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[10:10:37] <jthornton> maximilian_h: yes
[10:10:56] <maximilian_h> Please, I can't see anything in the wiki
[10:11:05] <maximilian_h> I found HOME_SEQUENCE
[10:11:09] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[AXIS]-section
[10:11:14] <jthornton> yep that is it
[10:11:36] <maximilian_h> I have setHOME_SEQUENCE to = for all axes
[10:11:41] <maximilian_h> moment
[10:11:50] <maximilian_h> let me read the page you send me
[10:12:21] <jthornton> do you have home switches set up?
[10:12:48] <maximilian_h> I have linear scales and home switches
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[10:13:11] <maximilian_h> ok I have read the section
[10:13:39] <maximilian_h> ok, I have HOME_SEQUENCE = 0 on all axes
[10:13:54] <jthornton> they should all home at the same time then
[10:14:06] <maximilian_h> what am I missing to get a "Home All" button ?
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[10:24:27] <jthornton> ?
[10:24:28] <maximilian_h> i.e. will the axes all home when I home any axis ?
[10:24:59] <jthornton> if you don't have the home all button you have to home each axis after selecting it
[10:25:30] <maximilian_h> I am sorry if I am not clear ... I want to have a home all button
[10:25:43] <maximilian_h> but since I haven't actually gotten it
[10:25:56] <maximilian_h> I don't know if it's possible at all
[10:25:59] <jthornton> look around line 2845 in axis.py
[10:26:13] <maximilian_h> thanks I will do that
[10:26:37] <jthornton> it might be that having 6 axis but only having a homing sequence for 3 is the problem
[10:26:48] <maximilian_h> back to the source code. Thanks a lot for the help jthornton
[10:26:51] <jthornton> what happens when you use the keyboard shortcut?
[10:27:39] <maximilian_h> you mean ctrl-home ? Haven't tried yet, I found it before asking here and the machine is on the shop floor while I am at the office now
[10:27:50] <maximilian_h> but I have a ssh connection
[10:28:15] <jthornton> yes, that is what I mean ctrl-home
[10:28:28] <maximilian_h> I will try that too
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[10:29:05] <maximilian_h> but the employes using the machine proably will forget about ctrl-home in a matter of weeks. Whereas a home all button stays
[10:29:57] <maximilian_h> ok, I will have a look at axis.py now.
[10:30:15] <jthornton> also check then if halui.home-all exists, if so a pyvcp Home All button can be added
[10:30:34] <maximilian_h> A, good idea too !
[10:30:49] <maximilian_h> I will try that too
[10:31:33] <maximilian_h> ok, bye and a big thanks!
[10:31:56] <jthornton> np
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[12:46:21] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/02/skunkworks_to_develop_e_petitions_system/
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[13:19:29] <Loetmichel> HA! IT LIVES!!!! [mad scientist laughter] -> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/fraese_in_auto.mp4
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[13:19:46] <Loetmichel> NOW i can got to the model helicopter convention ;-)
[13:20:58] <jdhNC> me too!
[13:21:21] <jdhNC> well, I could, if I wanted to. and if I knew hwere it was, and had a reason to go.
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[13:22:53] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: i just wanted to share taht my nimi cmc mill is able to run in the trunk of my car... so i can repair the broken parts at the convention ;-)
[13:23:10] <jdhNC> cool, sounds like more fun than sitting at work
[13:23:15] <Loetmichel> that... mini cnc
[13:23:36] <Loetmichel> work?
[13:23:43] <Loetmichel> where do you come from?
[13:23:51] <jdhNC> .nc.us
[13:23:58] <Loetmichel> in germany is a holiday today
[13:24:11] <jdhNC> what holiday?
[13:24:43] <Loetmichel> "fathers day" Christ ascension
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[13:25:39] <jdhNC> do non-christians have to work?
[13:25:44] <Loetmichel> no
[13:26:09] <jdhNC> do they get FSM-ascension day off?
[13:26:21] <Loetmichel> yes
[13:26:30] <jdhNC> I'd make that every Friday
[13:26:38] <Loetmichel> hihi
[13:27:26] <jdhNC> "and on friday, the Flying Spaghetti Monster ascended to the heavens, waving his noodily appendages"
[13:29:28] <syyl> ;)
[13:34:05] <alex_joni> R'amen
[13:36:05] Tech_Talk is now known as Birdman3131
[13:38:54] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: no, the FSM-ascension day will be put on the same day as chsit ascension fpor conveniance of the Employers ;-)
[13:39:18] <Loetmichel> thats how german government do it
[13:39:26] <Loetmichel> (every time ;-)
[13:39:40] <Loetmichel> s/do/does
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[14:30:42] <JT-Work> YEA! I have a garage door in my hands
[14:31:40] <skunkworks> yay!
[14:34:08] <syyl> and you can still type?
[14:34:30] <JT-Work> ok, it is sitting in the back of my truck
[14:34:41] <syyl> ;)
[14:36:23] <JT-Work> I'm excited to get that installed, it is well sealed and insulated to R12.6
[14:36:34] <JT-Work> and 95F ouside
[14:39:24] <Tom_itx> git r done
[14:41:58] <JT-Work> gotta get some work done like billing customers
[14:42:28] <Tom_itx> gotta pay to play
[14:42:54] <Tom_itx> i just finished all that
[14:43:01] <Tom_itx> end of month crap
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[15:47:50] <willburrrr2003> Well I kinda worked past the errors that emc was givin me lastnight, was able to start turning down the 4" piece of aluminum roundstock I have. In the process I wound up illing the cutting edge of my carbide insert....next time , more oil :-p Once I changed the insert, I didn't get the chance to run it again as it kept giving me a limit switch error though I wasn't near the switch...will have to troubleshoot that tonight. I
[15:48:09] <ssi> you killed a carbide insert turning aluminum?
[15:48:37] <skunkworks> heh. maybe it is stuff he casted...
[15:48:54] <JT-Work> willburrrr2003: you get your touch off sorted out?
[15:49:56] <willburrrr2003> thats all I could think was the problem...each pass was going great, then the chips became wisps of chips,then it startting cutting hard and bogging down the spindle....tried slowing down the speed and it would cut for a moment thn bogg dow again and stall my spindle.
[15:51:57] <willburrrr2003> JT-Work: I am doing the ouch off proceedure as have been told and as I found in the docs, tool table gets a value of about .6ishfor the tooling on the z , then after a few cuts...when I reset the z 0.0 for a new workpiece, my tool makes a massive jump to the right of the screen...and when I look at the tool table the offset has become 6.5ish
[15:52:54] <willburrrr2003> I am working in g54, and setting tooling in g56 with no offsets loaded.....not sure what I am doing wrong
[15:53:27] <JT-Work> when touching off a new workpiece touch off in G54
[15:53:46] <JT-Work> when touching off a new tool use G56 and tool table in the touch off window
[15:54:02] <willburrrr2003> I do, I touch off the tools in an unused corridinate system g56, and workpiece in g54
[15:57:11] <willburrrr2003> looking at the changelog for emc2.4.6 I see the "fixed iocontrol : fix current tool information after reloading table" , I am wondering if I am experiencing th bug that the fixed in this release as I am using emc2.4.3....
[15:57:21] <JT-Work> so just to be perfectly clear when you touch off your new tool you do G56 in the mdi window, position the tool to some fixed point, touch off Z to the tool table then do G54 in the mdi window to change back?
[15:58:10] <JT-Work> oh crap I forgot to bill for $48k to a customer
[15:58:36] <willburrrr2003> Yes JT-Work, that is what I am doing
[15:58:51] <willburrrr2003> JT-work....I hate it when that happens hehe
[15:59:54] <JT-Work> then you select a tool say #1 with T1 M6 G43 then touch off the Z end of the material in the G54 in the touch off window?
[16:00:02] <willburrrr2003> I'm putting together O&M manuals for panels we built, the customer is holding another $47k (remainder owed on project) until the manuals are delivered
[16:00:51] <JT-Work> we get from a few customers but not many
[16:01:48] <willburrrr2003> Yes JT-Work, I do just that...select tool while in g54 and touch off my z to the end of material
[16:02:02] <JT-Work> and the G43 too?
[16:03:16] <willburrrr2003> hmmmm no g43 command when I change tool, but I believe g43 is already in effect as my g-code sets it to use the tool length offsets
[16:03:32] <JT-Work> you have to do G43 after a tool change
[16:03:52] <JT-Work> other wise your still on the last tool's offset
[16:04:25] <willburrrr2003> ok, will remember that tonight :)
[16:05:09] <JT-Work> you will be a happy guy if you do Tn M6 G43 for tool changes :)
[16:05:18] <willburrrr2003> sweeet
[16:05:37] <willburrrr2003> hope that ets rid of some of the issues I am still seeing
[16:06:04] <JT-Work> it will drive you nuts if you don't do it correctly...
[16:06:14] * JT-Work heads to "The Shop"
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[16:09:33] <skunkworks> I had ruined a few circuit boards because of that issue.
[16:09:59] <skunkworks> (using previous tool offset because I didn't command a g43)
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[16:33:43] <willburrrr2003> Skunkworks: I coud see that being frustrating.... I didn't ruin anything just lots of wierd errors going on
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[17:02:49] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, do you specify it on the tool line or the first move below it?
[17:03:19] <Tom_itx> my sherline does the G43 on the next line where it moves to z position
[17:03:41] <Tom_itx> ie G43 Z0.1 H1
[17:03:50] <JT-Shop> the tool change line I use it Tn M6 G43
[17:04:06] <Tom_itx> my tool line is just a Tx M06
[17:04:23] <JT-Shop> if you miss the G43 you could be in trouble
[17:04:24] <Tom_itx> may have to adjust my template for emc
[17:04:43] <Tom_itx> it's always the next line after the coordinate system setup
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[17:05:06] <Tom_itx> G17 G00 G90 X-0.689 Y-0.0491 S10016 M03
[17:05:08] <Tom_itx> G43 Z0.1 H1
[17:05:42] <Tom_itx> that "S" word must be wrong
[17:05:50] <Tom_itx> i don't have spindle speed anyhoo
[17:07:02] <Tom_itx> i was gonna try one of my files once i get it all set up and see what adjustments i need to make
[17:07:45] <JT-Shop> don't think there is a H1 anywhere in EMC
[17:07:46] <Tom_itx> it's been a while since i messed with my templates. i'm a bit rusty
[17:07:57] <Tom_itx> matches the tool number
[17:08:03] <Tom_itx> T1 M6
[17:08:04] * JT-Shop hands Tom_itx some lube
[17:08:06] <Tom_itx> xxxxxx H1
[17:08:26] <Tom_itx> the H word doesn't follow the T in emc?
[17:08:43] <willburrrr2003> g17, my sub routines set g18? should I be using g17?
[17:08:57] <Tom_itx> depends what workplane you want
[17:09:21] <willburrrr2003> x and z work plane
[17:09:24] <Tom_itx> xy yz xz
[17:09:42] <JT-Shop> usually on your lathe G18 but some won't work like drilling subs so you have to use G17 for them
[17:10:08] <Tom_itx> does emc have any canned cycles defined?
[17:10:09] <willburrrr2003> ok thanks for the clarification, I'm learning all this on the fly so to speak ;)
[17:10:17] <Tom_itx> like peck drill , dwell etc?
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[17:11:14] <JT-Shop> the H is used to use an offset from the tool table that may or may not be the currently loaded tool
[17:11:44] <JT-Shop> dwell is G4 and several canned cycles yes
[17:12:03] <willburrrr2003> I'm gonna re-install my emc distrobution tonight with the 2.4.6 release, can I just copy my config folder and ncfiles folder, then past them back into the new system once it's up and running?
[17:12:18] <Tom_itx> should do
[17:12:21] <Tom_itx> i did it
[17:12:32] <willburrrr2003> cool, will give it a shot then
[17:14:04] <willburrrr2003> I my get started moving my machine from my bedroom to my garage tonight as well.... made lots of chips lastnight and they are everywhere hehe, desk and floor .... project has outgrown my bedroom now that its mostly running...
[17:14:17] <Tom_itx> jt, i should send you my cam for these pulleys and have you whip em out
[17:14:35] <Tom_itx> i'll be whittling on the ole manual mill hopefully today
[17:16:17] <Tom_itx> this is just a cross section of what i was considering. the 2 on the right are the current ones http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pulley.png
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[17:22:09] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[17:22:16] <willburrrr2003> Hi :)
[17:23:30] <willburrrr2003> is your cam program for linux?
[17:24:23] <JT-Shop> looking to speed the spindle up?
[17:24:43] <IchGuckLive> 150.000 jt
[17:24:57] <IchGuckLive> this gives nice sound O.O
[17:25:23] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: 2.3 to 2.4?
[17:26:00] <IchGuckLive> and if the wrong ball bearings is used also nice colors
[17:26:34] <IchGuckLive> willburrrr2003: use HeekscadCam its free and we all develop the needs
[17:27:31] <IchGuckLive> willburrrr2003: look at my Hortow video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAVkVawm6pM
[17:28:19] <IchGuckLive> willburrrr2003: witch os are you using 10.04 or higher
[17:29:12] <willburrrr2003> i am using 10.04
[17:29:20] <willburrrr2003> with emc 2.4.3
[17:29:28] <willburrrr2003> upgrading tonight to emc 2.4.6
[17:30:36] <willburrrr2003> I saved the video link, will watch it on my next break as I am at work
[17:30:41] <IchGuckLive> so use this script http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/wiki/BuildWithCmakeOnUbuntu
[17:31:01] <willburrrr2003> I can't, no net connection to my linnux box yet
[17:31:02] <IchGuckLive> then you get the perfect new and EMC2 optimized CAD/CAM
[17:32:43] <IchGuckLive> willburrrr2003: what is your major to use EMC PCB or pure milling
[17:33:06] <willburrrr2003> running mini-lathe
[17:33:33] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: ok, should just need to copy your config files then
[17:33:51] <IchGuckLive> ah yes , if awakllin is here he takes part of the rotation CAM
[17:37:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, yes
[17:39:33] <willburrrr2003> nice JT-Shop, that means I don't have a lot of software re-setup once installed
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[17:57:07] <IchGuckLive> by and have a nice day all over the world
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[18:16:55] <Anthro> can someone take a look at my 'first time milling in aluminium'-result? done with DIY machine, 2 flute 3mm carbide end mill (for ALU) 16K rpm 500mm/min feed, climb milling. due to the light it looks rougher than it actually is. now my Q: is this the expected result or am I doing something wrong? [for reference the ALU plate is 8mm thick]
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[18:19:35] <Anthro> dont know what alloy it is, I assume 6061
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[18:24:07] <skunkworks> do you have a picture?
[18:25:21] <JT-Shop> my guess without looking is machine is not rigid enough if it is homemade
[18:28:32] <jdhNC> DOC?
[18:32:18] <Anthro> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/imag0688p.jpg/ DOC is 2mm and 4mm
[18:33:58] <Anthro> other view http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/imag0687.jpg/
[18:34:20] <jdhNC> does it look better at 250mm/min?
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[18:36:19] <Anthro> at 250mm/m the distance of the grooves are just closer together (as you would expect) leaving a cleaner finish yes. but then my chip load is too small, no?
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[18:40:09] <Anthro> I just dont know what to reference to as i never milled alu before, so does it look OK or bad to you guys?
[18:41:34] <anonimasu> Anthro: one second
[18:42:30] <Anthro> ok
[18:42:59] <jdhNC> I'm not a machinist, I'm a programmer who carries a screwdriver.
[18:43:53] <anonimasu> http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/IMG_6290%5B1%5D.JPG
[18:44:31] <anonimasu> depending on your spindle it might be ok
[18:45:10] <Anthro> ok that one you show there is silk smooth compared to mine
[18:45:19] <Anthro> i'm using a Kress FME800
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[18:46:33] <Anthro> ah maybe worth mentioning: I didnt use coolant or lubrication
[18:46:54] <ssi> how much tool stickout
[18:47:21] <Anthro> tool was sticking out approx 20mm
[18:47:41] <ssi> 20mm stickout on a 3mm tool?
[18:47:44] <ssi> that's probably it
[18:48:20] <Anthro> can i stick it in with a part of the flutes as well or will i damage my collet
[18:48:30] <fragalot> I wouldn't :/
[18:49:18] <ssi> what's the biggest tool you can use?
[18:49:19] <Anthro> correction it was only 15mm
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[18:49:37] <Anthro> 8mm shank is the biggest collet I can hold (and i have)
[18:50:43] <Anthro> i must also say that i have a rather big Z travel so thats probably also an issue
[18:50:56] <ssi> well rigidity is important to surface finish
[18:51:10] <ssi> if the machine or the tool is flexing away from the work, you'll get chatter, and that's what's causing the surface finish issues you have
[18:51:35] <ssi> if you can run an 8mm tool with maybe 10 or 12mm stickout, you ought to see a pretty big improvement right away
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[18:51:53] <Anthro> and the fact i'm climb milling doesnt help as well i think
[18:52:57] <ssi> well that depends
[18:53:03] <ssi> I think climb milling is actually better for deflection
[18:53:04] <Anthro> ok, i'll do some shopping for a 8mm tool, I need one anyway cause I need to pocket a 62mm hole and that would take ages with a 3mm mill
[18:53:35] <ssi> I'm running the numbers on your tool and it looks like you'd have as much as .1mm deflection at the tool
[18:54:13] <Anthro> wow thats a lot
[18:54:27] <ssi> yeah
[18:54:35] <Anthro> and thats only tool, not machine
[18:54:35] <ssi> for comparison
[18:54:46] <ssi> an 8mm tool with 25mm stickout would deflect more like .005mm
[18:55:15] <Anthro> ok thats quite a diff ;)
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[18:55:32] <ssi> I hate working with tiny endmills
[18:55:45] <Anthro> can i still get the surface speed low enough, think my lower limit is 8K RPM on the KRess
[18:56:03] <JT-Shop> logger[psha]: log
[18:56:04] <ssi> I have a drawerful of .125" (~3mm) endmills because they break way too easily
[18:56:38] <Connor> Why use such a small tool unless you need to?
[18:56:41] <syyl_> i hate small endmills, to
[18:56:45] <syyl_> but i need to use them :D
[18:56:53] <Anthro> well, i didnt break anything yet so i keep my fingers crossed
[18:56:59] <syyl_> http://gtwr.de/fraeser.jpg
[18:57:02] <ssi> Connor: I only use them when I need to
[18:57:05] <syyl_> :D
[18:57:08] <ssi> and it's usually for slotting
[18:57:13] <ssi> which is the hardest damn op on a tiny endmill
[18:57:36] <syyl_> lot of air while machining helps
[18:57:43] <Anthro> even when accidentially doing a rapid move in my alu today when i mistyped G0 iso G1, it went through like butter
[18:57:44] <syyl_> or air/mist
[18:58:06] <ssi> Anthro: 8mm at 8krpm is ~200smm
[18:58:14] <ssi> high, but for aluminum it'll probably work great
[18:58:33] <Anthro> so i will need carbide for that
[18:58:43] <ssi> it'll help!
[18:58:45] <ssi> carbide loves fast
[18:58:51] <Anthro> good, i love fast too
[18:59:06] <ssi> your biggest problem is going to be chip clearing
[18:59:10] <Connor> What material you slotting?
[18:59:13] <Connor> Alum ?
[18:59:17] <ssi> nah, steel
[18:59:32] <Anthro> 2 flutes or 1 flute for that 8mm ssi?
[19:00:07] <ssi> oh I dunno, I've never used 1 flute mills
[19:00:14] <ssi> 2 is prolly fine
[19:00:23] <Anthro> ok good
[19:00:25] <syyl_> 2 flute cutter works fine in steel
[19:00:29] <ssi> you'll have to feed faster
[19:00:39] <ssi> numbers I'm coming up with are:
[19:00:40] <syyl_> gives you more room for chips
[19:00:55] <ssi> 8mm 2 flute, 4mm depth, 4mm width, 8krpm, 500mm/min
[19:01:16] <ssi> chipload of .03mm/tooth
[19:01:25] <Anthro> sounds like ball park figures for my machine
[19:01:28] <syyl_> sounds fine
[19:01:39] <ssi> .011mm deflection at the tool with 25mm stickout
[19:01:52] <ssi> and requires 250W spindle power
[19:02:04] <syyl_> how do you determine the tool deflection?
[19:02:09] <syyl_> bob warfields tool?
[19:02:16] <ssi> yup
[19:02:28] <anonimasu> do you have any runout?
[19:02:44] <Anthro> got 800W and i think it puts out 360W of energy at the tool if I remeber correctly
[19:02:49] <anonimasu> and are your machine able to handle the torque of the cut?
[19:03:03] <anonimasu> like, are you pulling the axes away in cut?
[19:03:14] <anonimasu> ssi: aim for 0.06mm/tooth
[19:03:42] <anonimasu> err Anthro
[19:04:04] <Anthro> im going to mill 6060-T6
[19:04:07] <anonimasu> that should give you better finish also, but really the chip cleareance is alot heavier...
[19:04:11] <ssi> if I pump it up to .06mm/tooth, I get double the feed, double the required power, and double the deflection
[19:04:12] <anonimasu> this is 6061-t6
[19:04:28] <anonimasu> or you can simply slow down to half speed
[19:04:32] <ssi> aw crap you know what
[19:04:38] <ssi> I've been giving you numbers for 1018 steel :D
[19:04:45] <Anthro> lol ssi
[19:04:49] <anonimasu> I cut with the same feed per tooth...
[19:04:57] <anonimasu> it turns out nice and shiny that way
[19:05:01] <ssi> ok for 6061 it's giving me:
[19:05:09] <ssi> 8mm tool, 8krpm, 200smm
[19:05:14] <ssi> .077mm/tooth
[19:05:18] <anonimasu> that was with a 8mm
[19:05:21] <ssi> 1228mm/min
[19:05:29] <anonimasu> or 10 at 2000rpm
[19:05:32] <ssi> requires 187W
[19:05:35] <Anthro> is that for a 2 flute?
[19:05:40] <anonimasu> that's not for slotting is it?
[19:05:42] <ssi> .0085mm deflection
[19:05:47] <ssi> no that's for 50% engage
[19:05:49] <ssi> 2 flute
[19:05:58] <ssi> 4mm DOC, 4mm WOC
[19:06:14] <ssi> slotting is the same feeds and speeds but more spindle power req'd
[19:06:16] <Anthro> 1200mm/m is my rapid speed atm
[19:06:31] <ssi> yea I dunno that I'd necessarily recommend cutting at 1200
[19:06:41] <ssi> MRR is 40cc for a slot
[19:06:47] <ssi> that's a lot of material to remove from a slot
[19:06:50] <anonimasu> also, coolant sometimes makes the cut look worse...
[19:07:03] <ssi> Anthro: what rpm are you running the 3mm bit at?
[19:07:25] <ssi> lemme run the numbers for the cut you made
[19:07:34] <Anthro> i dont have feedback on the rpm but i put it 'halfway' on the speed dial and that should end up around 16k rpm
[19:07:44] <ssi> 150smm
[19:07:48] <ssi> you said 4mm doc?
[19:07:49] <anonimasu> did you say that your using 2 flute?
[19:07:50] <ssi> what width?
[19:08:19] <Anthro> 2mm
[19:08:49] <ssi> 2mm width is 66% engage
[19:08:53] <ssi> .1mm deflection
[19:09:03] <ssi> chipload is pretty low
[19:09:07] <ssi> .0156mm
[19:09:22] <ssi> although for a mill that small, that might be appropriate
[19:09:59] <ssi> if you can get your stickout down to 10mm on that 3mm endmill, the deflection numbers stop being angry red colored
[19:10:04] <ssi> goes down to .0069mm
[19:10:56] <Anthro> well for this 8mm piece thats fine but i need to mill a 12mm next and a 20mm after that :/
[19:11:22] <ssi> I definitely suggest you use a bigger mill for as much as possible
[19:11:38] <ssi> if you have 1.5mm radiuses or <3mm slots that you need to cut, do them in a separate operation
[19:12:40] <Anthro> i need to mill a 6.35mm hole and then some 2.5mm holes and also some 14mm pockets
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[19:13:59] <Anthro> 2.5 i will probably just drill, I have a 1.5mm end mill but thats deflection inferno probably :)
[19:15:56] <Anthro> still need to figure out how to do a toolchange and keep my Z ok in EMC, probably just split it up into separate .ngc's ?
[19:16:26] <Anthro> i read somewhere you cannot do jogs in pause mode
[19:17:02] <JT-Shop> if you need to touch off at each tool change just split your code up
[19:17:37] <Anthro> ok
[19:17:45] <JT-Shop> there is no advantage to doing manual tool changes with touch off inside of one large program
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[19:19:03] <Anthro> yes i noticed, only gets you gray hair faster ;)
[19:19:44] <JT-Shop> yep :)
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[19:22:05] <Anthro> this is the part im trying to make: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/demper56mm.png/ and top part: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/demper56mmtoppart.png/
[19:22:49] <mrsunshine> making guns are you ? :P
[19:23:44] <Anthro> it looks a bit like its meant for bullets but its a mechanical damper (put ball bearing in the holes) and attach the part to your motor/leadscrew
[19:24:34] <Anthro> then i can up my rapid speed hopefully, 1200mm is OK but getting some 'almost resonance
[19:24:41] <Anthro> soundm and that scares me :p
[19:26:12] <mrsunshine> humm
[19:26:15] <mrsunshine> dont get it =)
[19:27:20] <Anthro> how it works?
[19:28:06] <mrsunshine> yes, i dont get it from what you wrote =)
[19:30:08] <Anthro> ok so if you combine the 2 parts im making you end up with a cylinder with ball bearings inside. mount that onto your stepper motor axle (i have axle sticking out of the back of the motor), so when it rotates the bearings will fly outward storing kinetic energy
[19:30:34] <mrsunshine> bearing as in just balls ?
[19:30:39] <Anthro> yes the balls
[19:30:45] <Anthro> 12.7mm ball
[19:30:48] <Anthro> steel
[19:31:02] <Anthro> pocket is 14mm
[19:31:09] <Anthro> so it has some free space to move in
[19:31:53] <willburrrr2003> Anthro, sounds like theold washing machines, they had a centrifical pully, that worked that way for low speed and high speed....used them on several go-karts growing up ;)
[19:32:03] <mrsunshine> Anthro, but why not just a flywheel? :P
[19:32:39] <Anthro> it is part flywheel, because it has mass and it rotates on the motor axle
[19:32:40] <willburrrr2003> I would assume because flywheel takes more energy to get going than what h is trying to do?
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[19:33:37] <Anthro> heavy flywheel will limit your acceleration, it also buffers energy so it will dampen and reduce resonance
[19:34:27] <Anthro> so thats quite ok but by adding bearings that are free moving you get the extra effect of reducing recoil (= damping resonance)
[19:35:01] <Anthro> you know those hammers with little lead balls inside ? when you hit a hard surface the hammer doesnt bouce back at you?
[19:35:10] <mrsunshine> mm
[19:35:12] <mrsunshine> hmm
[19:35:15] <mrsunshine> interesting =)
[19:35:18] <Anthro> no recoil hammer
[19:35:37] <mrsunshine> tho as a hobby blacksmith i want recoil in hammers ;P
[19:35:54] <mrsunshine> but its interesting
[19:36:01] <mrsunshine> as resonance is a pita =)
[19:36:16] <syyl_> those hammers are also known as "hellish pain when your finger is hit by it"
[19:36:47] <Anthro> doesnt that apply for all kinds of hammers? :)
[19:37:27] <syyl_> my experience is, that the recoiless hurt a little more :D
[19:37:51] <Anthro> yes thats true, because all the kinetic energy goes into the object it hits
[19:38:13] <Anthro> ie less is lost in recoil
[19:38:41] <Anthro> so that concept now in a rotating flywheel on your motor/leadscrew
[19:40:43] <Anthro> so all your energy goes into the direction you want it to rotate, canceling backward energy (=keeping you out of resonance - a point where your forward and your recoil energy is equal, stalling the motor)
[19:41:31] <Anthro> now all that for theory, If it actually works I
[19:41:36] <Anthro> 'll be happy
[19:42:21] <syyl_> mmh
[19:42:25] <syyl_> sounds interesting
[19:42:48] <syyl_> the balls have a little play in the holes?
[19:42:59] <Anthro> yes they must have play
[19:43:21] <syyl_> the spindle is turning, stops
[19:43:30] <syyl_> and the ball hits "the other side"
[19:43:36] <Anthro> yes
[19:43:42] <Anthro> kicking it out of resonance
[19:43:48] <syyl_> ah
[19:43:50] <syyl_> ok
[19:43:53] <syyl_> that might work
[19:43:55] <Anthro> if you simplyfy it :p
[19:46:09] <Anthro> if you plot the kinetic energy in time , part is stored in the ball, part in the axle. axle stops or gets slown down due to recoil (near resonance) then a split second later the balls hit the other side releasing its stored kinetic energy into the axle again, breaking the energy balance in favor if your desired rotation direction
[19:46:57] <Anthro> that last 'if' needs to be 'of'
[19:48:25] <Anthro> you can even tune the damper by adding a liquid into the cavity
[19:48:52] <syyl_> thanks for the explanation
[19:49:10] <Anthro> controlling the time and rate of energy transfer from the ball to the axle, thick oil will cause it to move slow etc
[19:49:15] <syyl_> im only a bit worried, that you might see that *bump* of the balls in the surface
[19:49:31] <syyl_> but, as you said, with some liquid you could dampen that
[19:50:37] <Anthro> well it will never bump above a certain speed due to the centripetal force the balls will be pushed against the outer wall
[19:51:13] <Anthro> and a sudden stop of the axle will cause the balls to make a 'looping' inside the cavity keeping contact at all times
[19:51:28] <syyl_> ah, damn round holes
[19:52:23] <Anthro> ^^
[19:52:49] <Anthro> but at low speeds indeed you will hear 'rambling' of the balls
[19:53:07] <Anthro> potentially damaging the cavity
[19:54:13] <syyl_> hmm
[19:54:31] <syyl_> harden it and grind the holes ;)
[19:55:21] <Anthro> hehe
[19:56:39] <Anthro> guess a little damage inside the cavity will create some more 'randomness' in the movement of the ball, which is always a good thing - it will have less self resonance (yes even a damper has resonance :))
[19:57:09] <Anthro> im quitting now, its staing to sound like a sales pitch ;)
[19:57:14] <Anthro> *starting
[19:57:20] <syyl_> hihi
[19:57:28] <syyl_> na, quite interesing
[19:57:50] <syyl_> not a everyday application
[19:58:05] <Anthro> there is some thread on cnczone about this, with some youtube links and its quite astonishing what results some guys get
[19:59:48] <Anthro> this technique is also used in race/drag engines with very light flywheels (they need the acceleration, so a light 'race' flywheel is needed), and to combat the resonance they use a similar damper
[20:04:26] <Anthro> and if you really want to go nuts: there is a huge 800ton metal ball hung up at 380meter inside the Taipei 101 building to dampen the deflection of their 508meter high building. (tuned mass damper)
[20:04:57] <syyl_> mh, saw that one a while ago
[20:05:07] <syyl_> (pictures)
[20:05:37] <Anthro> I went for work to Taiwan so I had to see the ball myself, and its huge :D
[20:05:59] <syyl_> 800t..yes :D
[20:07:14] <Anthro> and the sphere is made of slices, like it was cnc'd with a rough Z step :)
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[20:07:43] <syyl_> thats maybe easier than machine it from solid :D
[20:08:00] <Anthro> i wonder how they got it up there, it doesnt fit the elevator thatf or sure LOL
[20:09:03] <Anthro> imagine the energy stored in that thing, 800 ton 380 meter high
[20:11:45] <Anthro> around 2982240000 Joules
[20:12:55] <cradek> I get 2704518700
[20:13:23] <Anthro> i did a rough one ;)
[20:13:51] <Anthro> anyway, it equals approx 0.75 Tonnes of TNT exploding
[20:14:13] <Anthro> quite a firecracker for the chinese :P
[20:14:36] <syyl_> they should drop it every year for chineses new year :D
[20:14:47] <syyl_> That would make an impression
[20:15:15] <Anthro> haha
[20:15:46] <syyl_> then they have 364 days to lift it up again
[20:17:07] <Anthro> it only needs 16.000 strong ppl to lift it
[20:17:32] <syyl_> sounds simple enough
[20:17:43] <Anthro> 1043mm / day
[20:17:52] <Anthro> heck my cnc goes faster
[20:17:53] <Anthro> :P
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[20:41:50] <pingufan> Hello, I am currently hand-editing my first (relatively simple) g-code jobs. I would like to simulate the job on Linux/KDE. Some useful free application to be recommended?
[20:43:26] <archivist> axis comes with emc!
[20:43:43] <Jymmm> pingufan: EMC has an simulation mode that you can do that with in AXIS
[20:44:10] <pingufan> On the machine I am working on (where I edit the files), I use openSuSE 11.4 with KDE
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[20:44:31] <pingufan> But Axis would be great.
[20:44:36] <Jymmm> you can run emc silution in a VM
[20:44:41] <Jymmm> simulation
[20:45:19] <pingufan> Nothing that runs directly (without a VM)?
[20:51:19] <cradek> you can build emc2 in userland simulator mode on any modern unixy system
[20:51:32] <cradek> especially any linux, and probably bsd as well
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[20:52:03] <archivist> I like to simulate by cutting air on the real machine
[20:54:47] <andypugh> Tool wear is higher that way (but still low)
[20:54:50] <pingufan> I edit G-Codes _manually_ and I am not very familiar. Therefore I want to see the result somehow to see if I will get what I want. Cutting air doesn't allow me zo zoom in and see the result of a longer job.
[20:55:24] <i_tarzan> why _manually ?
[20:56:47] <pingufan> I tried qcad. A nightmare. I learned AutoCAD many years ago and I would like to use something where the commands are identical, but This is a problem.
[20:57:21] <pingufan> And AutoCAD does not really work well in wine.
[20:59:12] <i_tarzan> would u keep on manual forever ?
[20:59:39] <pingufan> for simple things, yes.
[20:59:51] <Anthro> i run a Virtual machine with the linuxcnc iso installed onto that, works like a charm for simulation of your gcode
[21:00:05] <cradek> writing gcode can be a quick easy way to cut simple parts
[21:00:08] <Anthro> just download vmplayer and the iso, its free
[21:00:49] <Anthro> and for CAD, i'm using draftsight from dassault systemes, also free
[21:01:20] <pingufan> Is it similar to AutoCAD?
[21:01:35] <cradek> if you already have a linux system, using a VM is silly. building EMC in simulator mode on your system is the way to go.
[21:01:50] <pingufan> I had a try with QCad. This is a joke, no CAD.
[21:02:38] <Anthro> http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsight/free-cad-software/ take a look
[21:03:03] <Anthro> also runs on linux btw
[21:03:05] <pingufan> cradek: Therefore I want to learn the G-Code well enough. But I need finally an optical feedback
[21:03:59] <pingufan> Anthro: running on linux is essential. You know AutoCAD, too?
[21:04:11] <archivist> you are at a disadvantage if you think autocad is good, try to unlearn
[21:04:45] <pingufan> I can use it with closed eyes. I know all commands, etc.
[21:04:57] <archivist> I know its hard to change cad systems
[21:05:44] <pingufan> I used years ago linuxcad, but this guy never got it really working.
[21:06:05] <pingufan> He claimed to be 99.9% AutoCAD - nada.
[21:06:32] <Anthro> no havent used autocad
[21:07:09] <pingufan> That's sad. Then you cannot tell me how much it differs... :(
[21:07:46] <archivist> Im a solidworks user when I need to use cad, seriously faster to do stuff
[21:07:51] <Anthro> if you want autocad that bad, why dont you just buy/use it?
[21:08:10] <pingufan> I am on Linux now.
[21:08:21] <pingufan> And it runs badly on Linux
[21:08:46] <Anthro> autocad on virtual machine running windows?
[21:09:12] <pingufan> This is what I definitely don't want. In best case wine.
[21:10:16] <Anthro> ti would try draftsight, maybe it is like autocad , dunno?
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[21:11:10] <pingufan> Already downloading. Can not be worser than Qcad.
[21:11:15] <Anthro> haha true
[21:11:37] <Anthro> or Dia, also a quality tool :p
[21:11:47] <pingufan> How do I get g-code out from draftsight?
[21:12:38] <Anthro> you dont afaik, you save as DXF and then import that into your CAM program
[21:13:08] <andypugh> pingufan: This is from Autodesk, might work under wine, and its free: http://www.123dapp.com/
[21:13:08] <pingufan> Hmm - Can EMC import DXF?
[21:13:41] <Anthro> EMC is not a CAM, no?
[21:14:23] <andypugh> I hated AutoCAD though (I used it for a few years). I then switched to Inventor, which threw away all the bad parts of AutoCAD, and I rather like it. (Enough to keep a windows VM to run it on)
[21:14:28] <pingufan> Ok, so I need something which converts. Under Linux. What can you recommend (free software)?
[21:14:54] <Anthro> if you do lines/polylines you can use pyCAM to convert DXF to Gcode for contouring and simple pocketing
[21:14:55] <andypugh> I think HeeksCAD/CAM is almost the only game in town.
[21:15:26] <Anthro> or heeks idd (however i got not the desired results with DXF inport in heeks)
[21:16:51] <pingufan> What I do not really understand: I can use cutter offset (G41+G42). But fur that i must know the direction of a move. How do I see that / define that in a CAD ?
[21:17:23] <Anthro> depends on what you are going to make, if its simple geopmetry you should be fine programming directly in Gcode (using self built macro's etc)
[21:18:02] <Anthro> conventional vs climb milling
[21:18:19] <pingufan> In most cases, I will be happy with manually G-coding.
[21:19:03] <Anthro> there is something like clockwise / counter clockwise in DXF i think
[21:20:07] <Anthro> i wrote my own macro's for pocketing, then you just call your macro with the parameters you want and it will do its thing :)
[21:20:44] <Anthro> in G code that is
[21:21:47] <andypugh> SheetCAM runs under Linux, and works pretty well for 2D curves like DXF. (You can define depths, so it is 2.5D ish)
[21:22:36] <pingufan> Phew - let's see. Currently I must try to learn g-code. This is done best without any cad/cam. My first big project ws milling a rectangular pyramide with rounded corners. Was a set of nested loops, I learned very much hereby.
[21:23:56] <pingufan> The most difficult thing is using cutter offsets - the lead-in and lead-out moves. Here I have still problems.
[21:23:59] <Anthro> for 3d objects you can also use pyCAM or heeksCAD/CNC as they have waterline algorithms
[21:24:52] <pingufan> So Sheetcam directly generates g-code then?
[21:25:27] <Anthro> yes, all CAM softwares do, its hteir main function to output gcode
[21:26:52] <Anthro> but again all depends on what you are trying to do, simple geometry (holes, pockets, slots, simple contours) are usually also 'simple' in gcode
[21:27:39] <Anthro> if you have irregular shapes the CAM will output a shitload of X Y coords with 0.0xx increments to match your drawing
[21:28:00] <mrsunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJjivsVwSsQ&NR=1 that dampening seems to have a huge impact =)
[21:28:33] <pingufan> The downloadable Sheetcam is limited to 150-180 lines of generated code?
[21:28:57] <Anthro> mrsunshine, thats the vid that i was talking about :)
[21:30:04] <andypugh> I suspect that part of the problem is poor-quality step trains from Mach
[21:30:12] <Anthro> from a failing 115 IPM to a resonance free 185IPM, nice improvement :)
[21:32:11] <Anthro> i now have a similar 'humming' sound , which is a nice warning, if i want to go faster im in trouble
[21:32:16] <pingufan> Oh, it's late here. Have a nice evening.
[21:32:31] <Anthro> gnite
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[21:32:43] <andypugh> Interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SozZ7af3wg&NR=1
[21:32:56] <andypugh> Looks like a stepper+encoder solution.
[21:35:18] <Anthro> yes this must be a closed loop system
[21:36:29] <jdhNC> closed loop steppers!
[21:37:16] <Anthro> and the drive is probably not PWM chopped, but current driven
[21:39:11] <Anthro> hence the smooth and quiet motion
[21:40:54] <archivist> may be sensing the back emf so he knows where he is
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[21:43:58] <Anthro> does that still work when you block the motor and jerk it around like on the movie?
[21:46:21] <Anthro> or they are running an 8 wire motor, using half the coils for sensing and the other half for driving
[21:48:45] <andypugh> I think I see an encoder.
[21:49:03] <andypugh> A stepper is identical to a very high pole-count brushless motor.
[21:49:54] <Anthro> yes the gray wire on the right one is probably the encoder
[21:49:57] <andypugh> If you have at least 600 encoder counts you can run a 200 step stepper as a BLDC.
[21:50:39] <andypugh> The drawback is that they won't actually go any faster than a stepper.
[21:51:27] <Anthro> not so rapid rapids :p
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[21:53:52] <andypugh> Actually, you need 1200 counts, and preferably a lot more. Though you _could_ use a special 3-wire absolute encoder that just outputs hall-codes. Hmm...
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[21:56:16] <Anthro> does EMC have support for servo/rotary?
[21:57:12] <andypugh> EMC has support for everything (some user-coding may be required)
[21:58:07] <Anthro> with user coding you mean HAL configs or source code adjustments and recompiling?
[21:58:23] <andypugh> But pretty much every sort of servo and brushless motor, and any sort of drive is catered for. (Including linear motors)
[21:59:14] <Anthro> nice :)
[22:00:04] <andypugh> The "glue" for the wierder combinations is http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html/man/man9/bldc.9.html
[22:01:27] <Anthro> cool
[22:02:43] <Anthro> i just found out today the stepconf wizard doesnt like more than one enable pin, if you select more then only X enable will be written in the hal config
[22:03:28] <Anthro> not that it matters much
[22:07:01] <andypugh> Yes. That is a small bug. You probably want to connect all your enables to X-enable if you need more than one physical pin.
[22:07:45] <andypugh> The amp-enable HAL signal for all the axes goes on and off simultaneously anyway.
[22:07:46] <Anthro> i modified the halconfig and added the yenable and zenable, it worked
[22:08:23] <andypugh> yenable nd zenable are just signal names anyway, you could call them "fred" and "charlie" if you wanted ;-)
[22:08:37] <Anthro> yes i know they were linked to axis 1 and 2 :p
[22:08:53] <Anthro> which happens to be Y and Z
[22:08:58] <Anthro> or fred
[22:08:58] <Anthro> :p
[22:10:28] <Anthro> my stepper board is crap, my motors sound like there is a toilet flushing when thet are static...
[22:11:34] <Anthro> and thats after i modded the thing, before it was totaly useless.. chinese ebay junk
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[22:13:25] <Anthro> think i'll go geckodrives next or custom homebuilt
[22:14:24] <andypugh> Servos.
[22:14:53] <Anthro> then i need a new cnc nachine as well
[22:15:34] <andypugh> You haven't realised that your hobby is now making CNC machines, not making things on your CNC machine?
[22:15:51] <Anthro> you have a point there
[22:16:29] <Anthro> now that i have a machine i could make parts for a better machine
[22:16:44] <andypugh> Noody here makes anything other than CNC machines any more. In fact many of us don't even do that, we code software for CNC machines as you get to sit down in the warm to do that.
[22:16:58] <andypugh> :-)
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[22:17:55] <Anthro> haha :D
[22:18:25] <Anthro> with code you mean gcode or custom EMC2 stuff ?
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[22:23:25] <andypugh> I mean standard EMC2. It's not finished yet.
[22:25:06] <Anthro> ah cool you're a dev for emc
[22:26:07] <Anthro> i should have known, this is #emc
[22:26:09] <Anthro> lol
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[22:28:55] <andypugh> I wouldn't call myself a dev, I am more of a contributor. However I see lots of the actual devs lurking in the list to the left.
[22:30:47] <andypugh> Time to log, getting rather late here.
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[22:50:00] <AC-130U> uh
[22:50:22] <AC-130U> i got this shuttle computer... wonder if itll be any good for emc
[22:50:33] <AC-130U> (not that it'd do me much good without a cnc mill
[22:50:34] <AC-130U> )
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[22:57:11] <Anthro> latencytest will tell you
[23:03:44] <JT-Shop> yep
[23:19:14] <Anthro> hope these shuttles have a parallel port
[23:19:15] <Anthro> :)
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[23:30:34] * Valen has had bad luck with shuttles
[23:30:47] <Valen> 3/4 of them had to be RMAes
[23:30:48] <Valen> ed
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