#emc | Logs for 2011-05-31

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[01:09:49] <Tom_itx> oh man, that is so much better
[01:10:17] <Tom_itx> i should have known better than to trust anyone else's engineering ability
[01:10:45] <Tom_itx> silly stepper mount was draging on the Z axis thrust washer
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[01:54:50] <Tom_shop> ok when you calculate pulley ratio is it from the id or the od?
[01:54:55] <Tom_shop> or does it matter?
[01:55:03] <Tom_shop> v pulley
[01:57:18] <jdhNC> isn't it as long as both sheaves are the same, it doesn't matter. You measure from where the belt rides.
[01:57:25] <jdhNC> s/isn
[01:58:17] <Tom_shop> top of the belt?
[01:58:32] <jdhNC> yes
[01:58:45] <Tom_shop> if i keep the current profile it probably wouldn't matter so much
[01:58:56] <Tom_shop> i just wanna speed up the spindle a bit
[01:59:09] <Tom_shop> and sherline want's $80 for a pulley set
[01:59:37] <jdhNC> might not be a bad deal for an oddball size
[01:59:51] <Tom_shop> it's like a sewing machine belt
[02:00:56] <Tom_shop> i've got em both all measured for the current ones. i'll figure the ratios i have now and the published rpm and go from there
[02:01:17] <jdhNC> higher spindle speed might need new bearings?
[02:01:25] <Tom_shop> i don't think so
[02:01:31] <Tom_shop> i'm not gonna go crazy with it
[02:02:53] <Tom_shop> i could put a tach on the spindle so i know the rpm
[02:03:18] <Tom_shop> hardly worth it on this thing though
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[03:34:34] <aggrav8d> hi, emc.
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[03:35:59] <aggrav8d> i finally installed a test -x limit switch. I thought I would be able to hit home and the machine would find the -x limit, then advance back a fixed distance to be at 0. nope! I tried setting it to -x AND home. That time when I hit "home" it tried to move towards the +x limit where there is no switch. What gives?
[03:38:53] <willburrrr2003> what is the propper way to set up tooling with EMC? I have added my tools to the tool table, then I touched off the tools to the point of my dead center cucked up in the lathe. I used the touchoff to tool table tab for both x and y for both my tools. When I try to run a test part, I get told by AXIS that my mouve would be outside of machine coordinates... any idea on what I am doing wrong?
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[03:39:47] <willburrrr2003> <aggrav8d> sounds like you have the switch set up for the opposite end of your travel than you think.
[03:41:48] <cradek> aggrav8d: emc doesn't know which way to move to find the home switch unless you tell it. you tell it by setting the sign of the homing velocities. see the homing docs.
[03:42:48] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_homing.html
[03:43:18] <Tom_itx> .
[03:44:17] <willburrrr2003> <cradek> Thanks for the point toward that link the other day, it answered all my home and limit questions and now I have both my x-axis, and z-axis home and limits working :D
[03:44:26] <cradek> yay
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[03:45:42] <willburrrr2003> <cradek> any chance you can point me to the manual that explains touching off tools?
[03:46:04] <cradek> unfortunately I don't think it's carefully described in the manuals
[03:48:17] <willburrrr2003> do I just touch off to the tip of my dead center for X and Z for the tool? I already have it set up in my tool table with the number entered for lathe tool position.
[03:48:48] <cradek> if you set tool touch off to fixture, yes, that will work
[03:49:38] <cradek> or, otherwise, you have to make sure you have no offsets in effect when you do it
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[03:49:46] <cradek> good night...
[03:49:47] <willburrrr2003> how do I set it to fixture?
[03:50:01] <cradek> um actually that might be new in 2.5
[03:50:08] <cradek> so use the second piece of advice for now
[03:50:23] <willburrrr2003> good night :) ok, will do :D
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[03:53:36] <aggrav8d> willburrrr2003 - so this is something not handled by the config tool?
[03:54:15] <willburrrr2003> for my tooling setup, or your homing issue?
[03:56:03] <aggrav8d> willburrrr2003 homing. i'm not dealing with tooling.
[03:56:07] <aggrav8d> that's cradek.
[03:56:19] <aggrav8d> er, no.
[03:56:20] <aggrav8d> :P
[03:56:32] <aggrav8d> i'm not qualified to help you with tooling yet.
[03:56:51] <aggrav8d> when i get the outside machine coordinate, i find that touch off helps.
[03:57:16] <aggrav8d> also it's often a sign i've done something wrong in writing my gcode and I should heed the warning.
[03:57:59] <willburrrr2003> homing direction is designated as Cradek said, by the polarity of the home search velocity....if it is + number it heaads towards the positive end of the axis, if it is a - number it heads toward the - end of the axis
[03:58:34] <aggrav8d> right. when i say "what gives?" i mean "why can't i set this up from the config app?" instead of having to monkey with config files.
[03:58:46] <aggrav8d> next time i go to mod the settings it'll blow up my changes.
[03:59:21] <willburrrr2003> you can just open the INI file for your machine and change it there without loosing your other changes
[03:59:43] <willburrrr2003> you can set it up in the config to begine with
[04:00:18] <willburrrr2003> but you will loose your other changes to your file since you made it with the config program
[04:01:45] <willburrrr2003> when you setup the home switch input for an axis, it give your additional parameters under is axis configuration page. The spot for search velocity is where the + or - polarity tells EMC which direction to head to for homing
[04:03:15] <willburrrr2003> you can either go through the config again or open your INI file for your machine, and go to the axis your working with. then change the + or - of the search velocity value to change direction EMC searches for home on that axis.
[04:07:22] <willburrrr2003> for example, my right most switch on my z axis is on the positive side of my table , so my switch is set to be gome + max limit positive, and my searve velocity is a positive number to tell emc to head toward teh positive end of the axis to find the switchy
[04:09:24] <willburrrr2003> wow my typing sucks tonight, that was "home + max limit z" and "search velocity" that I misspelled.
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[07:45:03] <monode> hey there.
[07:45:34] <monode> i'm trying to write my own cnc controller and i haven't got a lot of help from other channels (namely math and physics).
[07:46:03] <monode> what i've done so far is make some hardware that can generate a known number of pulses at a fixed frequency.
[07:46:14] <archivist> why bother :) just use emc2
[07:46:34] <monode> because i don't want to use a computer in the end, and to have my own stuff :)
[07:47:21] <archivist> cnc=computation...you need a computer
[07:47:54] <monode> i'm using an arm and probably some fpga substrate
[07:48:35] <monode> i'm not very clear how accelerations should work
[07:49:08] <archivist> you can look at the trajectory planner
[07:49:17] <monode> consider the following case, i've got a line 10000 pulses long on a single axis, the machine can do 500steps/sec top speed and can accelerate
[07:49:22] <monode> at 100steps/sec^2
[07:49:36] <monode> if it's a problem that i'm asking, i can leave..
[07:50:03] <archivist> the trajectory planner is a realtime activity
[07:52:11] <archivist> it would make more sense to join in the port of EMC to a beagle board
[07:53:11] <monode> i'm striving to make something that's os independent, and isn't tied to specific boards
[07:54:42] <monode> i know there are a lot of solutions out there and i'll probably never make something as good as those, but I'd like to give it a try
[07:55:02] <monode> anyway, my specific problem seems to be i can't understand accelerations in discrete time
[07:55:12] <archivist> you can look at the trajectory planner
[07:55:30] <archivist> thts the emc part doing that
[07:55:53] <monode> i did.
[07:56:40] <monode> one of the reasons why i like doing my own stuff as opposed to hacking through other people's code is that i wrote it, and i know what's there to manage, as opposed to spending hours and hours trying to understand what others did
[07:57:15] <monode> tl;dr - i didn't understand a lot from the emc sources :)
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[07:57:51] <monode> i was hoping someone here could do a better job at explaining me how a planner works
[07:58:01] <archivist> http://www.anderswallin.net/category/cnc/emc/
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[07:58:50] <archivist> the trajectory planner is not trivial
[08:00:30] <monode> are you familiar with it?
[08:01:02] <archivist> no, but I do know very few fully understand
[08:06:07] <archivist> about monthly we see someone trying to re invent the wheel, its hard work
[08:06:53] <monode> well, i've done some motion planning for simpler stuff, namely foam cutter and engravers
[08:07:28] <monode> albeit at a very primary level, initially they had no accelerations, and later version had accelerations implemented as a velocity profile with several steps
[08:08:42] <monode> i suppose that once you understand how stuff works, 'reinventing' it is simply a matter of time and planning, but i don't quite understand how they should work, that's why i'm here
[08:10:23] <archivist> its done in realtime too, so has to plan ahead a bit
[08:11:01] <monode> yep, lookahead planner as to blend succesive lines within a tolerance range
[08:11:45] <monode> here's what i'm trying to do, in case someone might drop a hint
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[08:12:35] <monode> i wrote some stm32 software that can create 6 independent pulse trains, and some software to control these pulses in simple fashion: +X 100 pulses 400 Hz
[08:13:35] <monode> then i wrote a simple file which covers some squareish shapes, this file containing several lines, each made out of succesive small lines as different speeds, and at some points, the lines were blended together.
[08:13:54] <monode> of course, this was rather tedious since i 'thought' the speeds by myself.
[08:14:38] <monode> i ran the file and it worked well, except for the acceleration profile done in several steps, where the machine 'hums' several tones before reaching full speed :)
[08:14:39] <archivist> its position at a point in time, not pulse counts, remember emc can deal with servos too
[08:16:00] <monode> well, my position is expressed as the minimum step the machine can take
[08:16:23] <monode> hmm, i guess this might be a problem though, since linear equations won't work for discrete stuff so well.
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[08:18:04] <monode> whoops, dropped.
[08:25:34] <monode> is it a bad approach if i'm consider units directly as steps?
[08:26:02] <mrsunshine> hmm, thinking of building a small sheet metall saw using hacksaw blades =)
[08:27:19] <mrsunshine> or just build a bandsaw
[08:27:21] <mrsunshine> hmm :P
[08:29:17] <archivist> a band saw here a few miles away went for £28
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[08:49:30] <awallin> anyone up to speed on SSD drives? for example kingston SSDNow V-series vs. newer V100 ?
[08:53:13] <awallin> looking at a kingston SV100S2/64G for 99euros...
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[10:49:30] <nicko> *ello all
[10:51:22] <nicko> anyone done any press fits lately where they used heat on the outer part ?
[10:52:01] <jthornton> used to do that on gears that were about 6' across
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[10:53:47] <nicko> I've got a 40mm (1.5") tough steel shaft that I need to press fit aluminium part around
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[10:55:12] <nicko> its a 3.3" square 'around' the shaft and 2.5" long along the shaft (i.e. it'd be pushed on that far)
[10:55:24] <nicko> I've never done it
[10:56:00] <nicko> it's not required to transfer any torque between the two parts
[10:56:16] <jthornton> you would have to work very fast as soon as the two parts touch the hot one will cool
[10:56:20] <nicko> its simply so that they are aligned with each other
[10:56:31] <nicko> nice and snug
[10:56:56] <jthornton> you might do some searching to see how much the aluminum will grow when heated
[10:57:14] <jthornton> that is pretty small so I don't think it will grow much when warm
[10:57:48] <nicko> yes, I have been - but the online calculators are quite full on - thought better to simple ask from experience for a ballpark
[10:58:23] <nicko> I wonder: what heat fro the alloy, put the steel in the freezer (greater diffirential)
[10:58:42] <nicko> and how much do I undersize the bore on the alloy part ?
[10:58:51] <AC-130U> uh. how are you going to protect against galvanic corrosion?
[10:58:58] <nicko> ok,
[10:59:37] <nicko> I dont know about that - is it something to do with two different metals not behaving in close vicinity ?
[10:59:42] <jthornton> the sizing is the critical part and has to be calculated
[11:00:40] <AC-130U> yes... 2 different metals creating a small voltage potential and it causes corrosion
[11:01:08] <nicko> hmmmm
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[11:01:54] <AC-130U> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
[11:02:13] <nicko> ok, how does one protect against galvanic corrosion ? would you use lube in the press fit operation that could double duty as a potective sheild ?
[11:02:39] <AC-130U> the wiki tells you how
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[11:07:03] <nicko> depending on the type of steel that it is, it might not be so bad
[11:07:20] <AC-130U> yeah... can you clad it somehow?
[11:07:24] <cncbasher> aluminium .. anodise it
[11:07:58] <AC-130U> should work... that way you dont get a pissed-off customer after X months or years that they used the part
[11:08:05] <AC-130U> quality all the way through
[11:08:41] <nicko> hmmmm,
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[11:10:22] <nicko> I wonder if the extra thicker layer of alu oxide from the anodizing is enough to create the push fit I need - as in bore to size then anodize
[11:10:39] <nicko> I am the customer by the way ;)
[11:11:17] <AC-130U> could experiment :)
[11:11:59] <AC-130U> may want to make it a bit thicker than normal (the anodizing) because im sure tiny amounts will be scraped off inthe press fit
[11:15:16] <cncbasher> a 10 min anodise is about a 2 micron coating , but best to find by coating and trial fit etc
[11:15:36] <AC-130U> hmm ok
[11:16:36] <cncbasher> if it's an outside company , give them a sample of the same grade of ali , cut to a defined size and measure afterwards
[11:17:00] <cncbasher> as each different company will give you different values
[11:17:15] <cncbasher> dependant on their procedures
[11:17:48] <cncbasher> different grades also will give different amounts
[11:18:18] <jthornton> will the parts be exposed to moisture?
[11:18:22] <cncbasher> also heat treating the steel part will help too
[11:21:53] <nicko> moisture yes
[11:22:08] <nicko> according to a bit of maths and reading up
[11:23:37] <nicko> aluminium will incread in length (a linear measurement) by 0.01" (0.25mm) if I heat it up by 300deg C
[11:24:51] <nicko> but thats for a shaft of 40mm diameter
[11:25:07] <nicko> not sure if the same holds for a *hole* inside a larger part
[11:25:44] <nicko> I cant treat the steel part
[11:26:08] <nicko> its a lathe live tool holder - VDI40 style thing
[11:27:22] <nicko> rather than try to machine into it and destroy my tooling I'm clamping it with an alloy block which I can tap into and so on
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[11:44:43] <anonimasu> anyone have a clue about laser marking?, what a typical system might cost?
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[11:46:06] <jthornton> Jymmm: has a laser
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[11:55:28] <cncbasher> what are you looking at laser marking ?
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[12:00:53] <anonimasu> a laser marker
[12:00:55] <anonimasu> for marking metals
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[12:01:07] <anonimasu> they seem goddamn expensive
[12:01:09] <anonimasu> like 30k eur
[12:04:12] <cncbasher> depending on size and material a small one will set you back around $5,000
[12:04:28] <cncbasher> but no good for anything else other than marking
[12:04:59] <cncbasher> mine cost me £30,000
[12:05:51] <cncbasher> and even then it struggles on stainless
[12:06:19] <cncbasher> we coat the stainless first before marking , which helps
[12:07:49] <cncbasher> you need for marking around 300w , and a pulsed beam , anything above 400w and you'll start cutting
[12:08:26] <cncbasher> theirs small machines on ebay , good for marking but thats about it
[12:08:32] <awallin> this is a CO2 laser at 10.6 um ?
[12:08:38] <cncbasher> yes
[12:09:18] <cncbasher> mine max's out at 600w , so only good to cut say 1/4" steel
[12:09:58] <anonimasu> hm, they said about 50w for marking
[12:10:02] <cncbasher> for marking you need to pulse the beam at around 150w
[12:10:14] <cncbasher> yea for wood and plastic
[12:10:47] <cncbasher> and to get anywhere near a good finish on steels , you need a lot more
[12:11:19] <cncbasher> thin materials you'd probably get away with it
[12:11:41] <cncbasher> ours cuts plastics at 200w
[12:11:43] * Loetmichel hat checked the 80W CO2 of a friend: 0,2mm mild stell: ok
[12:11:52] <Loetmichel> 0,3mm Stainless: no chance
[12:12:15] <cncbasher> stainless reflects the beam , so you coat it first
[12:12:47] <cncbasher> but takes a lot more to mark
[12:13:15] <cncbasher> you need to increase the power more , then pulse the beam
[12:14:08] <anonimasu> yep
[12:14:14] <cncbasher> for example marking brass , you need at least 1Kw
[12:16:25] <cncbasher> and to say cut 0.5mm stainless you'd need 400w
[12:18:00] <anonimasu> yep, but for marking zinc:ed steel
[12:18:17] <cncbasher> marking say plywood and plastics ( model stuff etc ) you can do with 40w
[12:18:25] <anonimasu> 5000$ is very sane
[12:18:39] <anonimasu> or even $10k
[12:18:47] <anonimasu> but not 30k eur...
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[12:19:14] <cncbasher> depends if your doing it all day long
[12:19:26] <anonimasu> well, part of a production line
[12:19:30] <cncbasher> ours runs 8 hours everyday
[12:19:39] <anonimasu> maybe 24h/day
[12:19:57] <cncbasher> it may well be cheaper outsourcing it
[12:20:13] <anonimasu> well, i need process dependent numbers on my parts
[12:20:37] <anonimasu> configuration info
[12:21:13] <anonimasu> needle marking is the other option
[12:21:14] <cncbasher> foil stickers perhaps
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[12:21:40] <anonimasu> rough enviorment for the parts so it wont last too good like that
[12:21:52] <cncbasher> what metal is it your marking and what thickness
[12:22:01] <anonimasu> zinc plated steel
[12:22:15] <anonimasu> I dont know thickness yet
[12:22:53] <cncbasher> hope you got ventilation
[12:23:07] <jthornton> :) http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,24/id,10220/lang,english/
[12:23:09] <cncbasher> for the cyanide
[12:23:14] <anonimasu> well, designing a process to do stuff, and I need marking...
[12:23:35] <anonimasu> so, im free to set that up as requirement
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[12:23:53] <cncbasher> how large are the parts
[12:23:59] <anonimasu> 4x2cm
[12:26:35] <cncbasher> look for thermark
[12:28:07] <cncbasher> it's a coating that helps for marking
[12:28:08] <jdhNC> or cermark
[12:28:16] <cncbasher> thanks John
[12:28:28] <cncbasher> i was trying to think of that one
[12:28:45] <jdhNC> http://www.cermarc.com/
[12:29:12] <cncbasher> you probably could get away with making a small laser to do the job
[12:29:45] <cncbasher> but the laser it's self wont be cheap
[12:30:08] <cncbasher> and keep away from the chinese tubes , with a barge pole
[12:30:19] <anonimasu> indeed,
[12:30:21] <cncbasher> you need an american one
[12:30:23] <anonimasu> haha
[12:30:27] <anonimasu> or german...
[12:30:39] <anonimasu> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[12:30:40] <anonimasu> bbl...
[12:30:41] <cncbasher> yea german ones are fine
[12:31:01] <cncbasher> anything to do with Lasers is $$$$$$$$
[12:31:29] <cncbasher> drop the lens and say good buy to $300
[12:31:35] <anonimasu> heh
[12:31:37] <anonimasu> that's not too bad
[12:31:44] <anonimasu> milling tools are about the same and they wear
[12:32:01] <jdhNC> we didn't offset a weld and the reflection burned a $70k fiber
[12:34:59] <cncbasher> we are lucky as the laser is not heavily used we get through about 4 lens a year at $500 each
[12:35:21] <jdhNC> have you considered the alternative?
[12:35:37] <jdhNC> quit dropping the lens.
[12:35:42] <The_Ball> cncbasher, I have no idea about lasers, what's wrong with the chinese "barge pole" lasers?
[12:37:08] <cncbasher> The_Ball > the laser gas is not as pure and the build quality is rubbish and because they are sealed tubes , nothing you can do .
[12:37:23] <cncbasher> and the mirrors are not as good
[12:37:45] <cncbasher> an american tube will last 5 times longer
[12:38:16] <cncbasher> it's all in the fine detail with lasers
[12:39:12] <cncbasher> yes the chinese ones work , but usualy at a lower wattage than it's marked at
[12:39:36] <cncbasher> and running them at full power shortens the life considerably
[12:40:18] <cncbasher> but they are cheap , so if you can stand throwing the tubes away , thats fine
[12:40:22] <The_Ball> cncbasher, so on higher quality tubes you would actually replace the gass/refil?
[12:41:04] <cncbasher> depends on if it's a sealed tube or not , sealed tubes throw them away
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[12:41:46] <cncbasher> as the mirrors would detorate by the time the life limit is reached
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[12:42:16] <cncbasher> open systems are much better , but more maintance of course
[12:42:25] <cncbasher> in maintaining the gas pressures
[12:42:36] <cncbasher> and vacuum seals
[12:43:30] <cncbasher> mose high end systems are open tubes , so are fed with gas mix and held at pressure
[12:44:29] <cncbasher> and then the gas is slowly left to escape into air
[12:44:38] <cncbasher> through valves
[12:44:50] <cncbasher> controlling the rate ,
[12:45:07] <cncbasher> so a lot more complex than a sealed tube system
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[13:08:07] <The_Ball> cncbasher, interesting stuff
[13:08:52] <cncbasher> haha yes it can be until it all goes pearshaped
[13:09:21] <cncbasher> finding a leak in a vacuum is a darn harder than a pressurised system
[13:10:07] <jdhNC> hook a mass spec up to it, pull the vacuum through it, leak helium near all the fittings. The leak then becomes obvious
[13:10:24] <cncbasher> then you have the job of adjustments of the mirrors , to give you an idea , their fitted with micrometers
[13:10:45] <cncbasher> got a spare mas spec spare ?
[13:10:56] <jdhNC> of course
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[13:11:43] <cncbasher> probably 5 times the price of a laser
[13:12:01] <TekniQue> :D
[13:12:35] <cncbasher> think it's time to retire to an easy life
[13:13:32] <cncbasher> and why the hell did i pick engineering and electronics for a living
[13:14:05] <cncbasher> should have picked being a banker
[13:15:42] <ssi> because then you'd be boring
[13:15:46] <ssi> rich maybe, but boring
[13:17:05] <cncbasher> yea , and i can sleep at night
[13:17:08] <Tom_itx> naw, they're fat and lazy
[13:18:09] <cncbasher> at least if i have a heart attack , a quick look in the box and make a defib
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[13:45:33] <cpresser> i need some hints regarding feed-rate and cut-depth in steel. i got a two flute 3mm carbide endmill and want to mill some pockets into a 3mm thick sheet of steel. minimal cooling with cooling-fluid is available.
[13:46:05] <cpresser> would it be wise to cut the 3mm in one pass? what would a reasonable chip-load be?
[13:46:16] <JT-Work> gee, if I was at my shop I could punch the numbers in my feed calculator
[13:47:03] <cpresser> <- never has done steel bevore. so i have to ask :/
[13:47:08] <Loetmichel> cncbasher: i meant : CUTTING 0,2mm mild steel sheet is possible with 80W c02, 0,3mm stainless sheet will only get "scratched" about 0,1mm depth, regardless of velocity of the laser head.
[13:47:14] <cradek> 3mm is about 1/8. 100 sfm is 3000 rpm.
[13:47:26] <Loetmichel> cutting plywood is possible up to 8mm with this laser
[13:48:49] <Loetmichel> cpresser: depends. MY machine isnt capable of more than about 0,1mm depth in mild steel becaus of not rigid enough
[13:49:38] <cradek> whether you can do it in one pass depends on your machine. I'd certainly try it
[13:50:04] <cradek> what material is your cutter?
[13:50:09] <cpresser> carbide
[13:50:21] <archivist> there are maximum depth widths recommented
[13:50:27] <Loetmichel> [15:18:01] <cncbasher> at least if i have a heart attack , a quick look in the box and make a defib <- you can substitute a defib with some cabling plugged right into the 230V and some guts on the side of the person doing the CPR ;-)
[13:50:41] <cradek> ok then you can spin it much faster than 3000
[13:51:10] <Loetmichel> cpresser: kress spindle?
[13:51:15] <cpresser> Loetmichel: yes
[13:51:21] <Loetmichel> how rigid is your machine?
[13:51:27] <cpresser> but the 'newer' one with lower RPM
[13:51:42] <cncbasher> Loetmichel> great ! , you want to give it a go , heart attack coming up
[13:51:50] <cpresser> ists quite rigid, okay for aluminium.
[13:52:35] <Loetmichel> cncbasher: thanks, but no, thanks, did it unwillingly more times i can cout to myself... ;-)
[13:52:52] <Loetmichel> count
[13:54:06] <cpresser> archivist: good idea. i thumbed trough a tool catalouge and found a table for recommended paramters
[13:54:28] <Loetmichel> cpresser: i would try about 8kRPM, 0,2-0,5mm depth and about 300mm/min
[13:54:39] <Loetmichel> with a 2 flute carbide
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[13:55:00] <Loetmichel> but that is only gut feeling
[13:55:02] <JT-Work> 8k is way too fast for steel
[13:55:32] <cradek> might be ok if carbide?
[13:55:41] <archivist> which steel too
[13:56:11] <JT-Work> I use 80-100 SFM for steel with carbide
[13:56:18] <JT-Work> with flood coolant
[13:56:51] <cradek> you can easily cut steel with HSS at those speeds
[13:56:58] <cpresser> that is surface feet per minute?
[13:56:59] <Loetmichel> cpresser: you are german?
[13:57:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.gis-tec.com/deutsch/d_fraeser__i_parameter.htm
[13:57:02] <cpresser> Loetmichel: yes
[13:57:16] <JT-Work> slotting with an 1/8" end mill I'll do about 0.025" DOC
[13:57:17] <Loetmichel> calculate yourself ;-)
[13:58:44] <cpresser> thanks for all the input guys. ill clamp down the workpiece now and will start milling.
[13:58:48] <Loetmichel> and if possible: use a endmill with can cut over the middle, not one which tip is "fishtail" ground
[13:59:02] <cpresser> its your fault if i break the tool :D
[13:59:16] <cradek> how many end mills do you have?
[13:59:29] <cpresser> there are 3 left in stock
[13:59:47] <cradek> good - you should be able to do it with 3 :-)
[13:59:50] <Loetmichel> cpresser: 1 have about 1,5kg broken carbide mill bits laying around...
[13:59:50] <cradek> 2, I'd worry
[14:00:00] <Loetmichel> and thats only from three years ;-)
[14:00:14] <cpresser> its just a test, notn the real project.
[14:00:39] <cpresser> Loetmichel: there are people which buy that stuff. i also collect, but i am still below 1kg
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[14:01:41] <Loetmichel> cradek: i KNOW that feeling: "oh, last [insert type her] mill bit.... have to ge careful to get the job at hand done (saturday evening).... " Start the Machine: *KNACK*
[14:02:38] <cpresser> I use to buy more then double the amount of tools i predict to break. just to be sure ;)
[14:02:45] <Loetmichel> cpresser: i know. but i use them mostly as "gravierstichel" after grinding them free hand with a dremel and diamond disc ;-)
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[14:04:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/pce/Stichelschleifen.avi
[14:04:56] <Loetmichel> looks like this afterwards: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8958
[14:05:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8961
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[14:21:54] <FinboySlick> Since a lot of you likely retrofit older mills and lathes I was wondering if anyone has good ideas for restoring rusty tools.
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[14:22:41] <cradek> FinboySlick: I saved this link long ago but have not tried it: http://www.oldengine.org/members/orrin/rustdemo.htm
[14:24:05] <FinboySlick> Eesh... That's a bit harsh.
[14:27:34] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: try citric acid
[14:28:52] <FinboySlick> When live throws you lemons... Use 'em to de-rust your tools ;)
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[14:29:06] <Loetmichel> exactly ;-)
[14:29:18] <FinboySlick> I'll give it a go.
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[14:29:58] <FinboySlick> It's not super-rusty but it's been left somewhere it shouldn't have and I don't want to damage it more than I have to. It's got precision ground faces and laser engraving.
[14:31:16] <FinboySlick> I also read something about rubbing with a burnt cork. That's interesting. Carbon picking up oxygen from the rust I imagine.
[14:33:16] <Valen> i find that oil and a nylon scourer seems to do the job
[14:33:47] <Valen> i mean we arent talking high polish
[14:33:51] <Valen> but it'll stop the rust
[14:34:17] <Valen> assuming its just surface rust
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[14:35:38] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: in a german forum: http://www.cncecke.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=38670&stc=1&d=1297517993
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[14:36:36] <Loetmichel> 4 liters 60c water, 4 table soppn of citirc acid (crystals)
[14:37:06] <Loetmichel> 3 h athed in the solution (heat to stay at 60c)
[14:37:12] <Loetmichel> bathed
[14:37:42] <Loetmichel> looks ok for me;-)
[14:43:36] <FinboySlick> Then I assume distilled water to wash it off?
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[14:55:45] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: exactly
[14:56:04] <Loetmichel> and then slight oil fpr rust protection
[14:58:37] <TekniQue> I've been wanting to try the "safe rust remover" for a while
[14:59:02] <TekniQue> http://www.safestrustremover.com/overview.asp
[14:59:03] <TekniQue> this stuff
[14:59:13] <TekniQue> rust soap they call it
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[15:08:59] <jdhNC> Connor: any word from Grizzly?
[15:09:31] <Connor> Nothing new.. Last word was late July.
[15:09:44] <jdhNC> ahh... same as mine.
[15:10:00] <Connor> I did learn they had 46 units on backorder and had 80 coming in.
[15:14:27] <jdhNC> I have found that the G0704 Mill/Drill is expected to arrive in our warehouse on approximately July 1, 2011. Once received, backorders are processed and shipped to arrive in approximately three to five business days.
[15:14:35] <jdhNC> (laura@grizzly)
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[15:51:09] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[15:54:54] * cpresser finished milling my first steel project. yay :) http://ca.rstenpresser.de/~cpresser/tmp/pictures/unsorted/steel-milled.jpg
[15:55:23] <Loetmichel> looks loke aluminium fropm here
[15:55:43] <Loetmichel> but great finish
[15:55:57] <cradek> agreed, looks great
[15:55:57] <cpresser> thats what i thought when i first saw the chips. but its steel. i can tell by the weight :)
[15:56:09] <cradek> did you cut it in one pass?
[15:56:19] <jdhNC> powder coated steel for a panel?
[15:56:32] <cpresser> no. each pass 0.65mm, then one finishing-pass over 3.3mm
[15:56:47] <cpresser> yes, its a front-panel for a 19" rack
[15:56:50] <Loetmichel> feedrate?
[15:56:56] <Loetmichel> spindlespeed?
[15:57:06] <Tom_itx> ipt?
[15:57:12] <Tom_itx> fpm?
[15:57:14] <Tom_itx> rpm?
[15:57:25] <Tom_itx> wtf?
[15:57:36] <Loetmichel> stop it wiht the TLA!
[15:57:37] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[15:57:45] <Loetmichel> with
[15:58:22] <cpresser> gcode: http://nopaste.info/e705bfe6cc.html
[15:58:28] <Tom_itx> chip load probably around .002 - .003" per rev
[15:59:30] <cpresser> around ~0.02mm per flute.
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[16:18:08] <Tom_itx> cpresser, i would typically use a 4 flute on steel and 2 flute on alum
[16:20:25] <JT-Shop> I was thinking about drilling not milling
[16:21:23] <Tom_itx> oh and be sure it's center cutting if you plan to drill with it :P
[16:21:51] <JT-Shop> 0.125 2F FPT 0.0005", SFM 500, IPR 0.001 RPM 15,280, IPM 15.3
[16:21:52] <Tom_itx> i sometimes do that for recessed hex head bolts
[16:23:02] <Tom_itx> i still can't believe how screwed up that poor little sherline was
[16:23:35] <JT-Shop> mechanically or other?
[16:23:57] <Tom_itx> they retrofitted stepper mounts and on the z axis it was against the thrust bearing
[16:24:11] <Tom_itx> which was doing nothing all this time except rubbing
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[16:24:36] <jcizek> Morning JT... have a quick question on your configuration you shared with me.... i can't figure out where you hooked up your Z float switch !
[16:25:00] <jtektool> my machine thinks up is down down is up right is left left is right where to change sign in hal conf?
[16:25:09] <Tom_itx> i cut a relief in it and made the hole bigger so i could put a spacer between which let the collar push against it and the thrust bearing
[16:25:11] <JT-Shop> I just returned my Gold Wing to the local Honda dealer... they broke the TPMS whem they put the new tires on :/
[16:25:25] <JT-Shop> motion probe in
[16:25:27] <Tom_itx> quality workmanship
[16:26:26] <JT-Shop> and to top that off they used 29 cent wheel weights that don't match the curve of the rim
[16:26:27] <Tom_itx> jtektool, they told me to change the sign on the 'scale'
[16:26:37] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna try a couple different ways
[16:26:38] <jtektool> oh ok
[16:26:56] <JT-Shop> yea, sorry missed that, was eating peanuts
[16:26:56] <Tom_itx> i'll try that as well as .invert_output on the actual io pin
[16:27:01] <Tom_itx> see what works
[16:27:10] <jtektool> btw getting much better results with encoders on shaft than on motors
[16:27:12] <Tom_itx> both should
[16:27:16] <jtektool> thanks
[16:27:42] <JT-Shop> jtektool: the Z move is just a normal probe move
[16:28:36] <Tom_itx> i came up with a counterweight for the z since it's got that motor hung off the side of it too
[16:29:01] <jtektool> how is that working for you
[16:29:09] <Tom_itx> i haven't tried it yet
[16:29:18] <Tom_itx> just fixed all their screwups yesterday
[16:29:34] <jtektool> hmm well thanks im going to try now...
[16:29:48] <jtektool> be back in a few on a different box
[16:29:59] <Tom_itx> i had a chunk of alumbronze i think i'll use for counterweight
[16:30:11] <Tom_itx> until i need it for something that is..
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[17:19:31] <willburrrr2003> Good morning all
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[17:21:37] <syyl> yesterday we had a new renishaw probe...
[17:21:45] <syyl> today we have a broken one..
[17:22:50] <syyl> the service technician rammed it down into the vice...
[17:23:31] <pcw_home> $$Ouch
[17:23:46] <syyl> jep
[17:24:28] <willburrrr2003> sitting here contemplating my tool touch off procedure, and think I know why I was getting errors trying to run a part. I had offsets cleared when I touched off my tools, the x-axis works great....but my z-axis was giving me an overtravel alarm. I touched off my tool to the point of my dead center, chucked up in the spindle. When I touched it off I told EMC that this was 0.0 and that I think is my error. The number should h
[17:24:53] <willburrrr2003> <syyl> wow, sorry to hear that...is the tech replacing it?
[17:25:02] <syyl> of course :)
[17:25:33] <willburrrr2003> <syyl> glad to hear it, al least your not out the tool completely, just delayed from using it
[17:26:02] <syyl> the delay is not THAT of a problem for us
[17:26:24] <syyl> we had never bevore a 3d probe
[17:26:41] <syyl> did all of our work without
[17:26:48] <syyl> but now its a nice to have
[17:26:56] <syyl> and there was money free to spend
[17:26:58] <willburrrr2003> <syyll> what kind of work do you do?
[17:27:13] <syyl> prototyping work
[17:27:27] <willburrrr2003> nice, I hear there is good $ in doing that
[17:27:39] <syyl> yes :)
[17:27:45] <syyl> and very interesting
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[17:28:43] <Jymmm> cncbasher: jdhNC FWIW, There ARE some good lasers coming out of china now.
[17:29:39] <JT-Shop> willburrrr2003: 2.4?
[17:29:47] <willburrrr2003> yes
[17:30:16] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop, 2.4.3 I think
[17:30:51] <JT-Shop> the procedure I used for 2.4 is to change to an unused coordinate system, touch off the Z tool table to a fixed point (spindle face) by using a dowel
[17:31:56] <JT-Shop> this is the 0.0 offset for the tool table. then select the g54 (if that is the one you use) and touch off the end of the material with just about any tool and set the G54 offset
[17:32:31] <JT-Shop> so if I use the dowel for G54 I just set it to the size of the dowel (0.375" in my case)
[17:32:54] <willburrrr2003> isis that your x or your z setting?
[17:33:03] <JT-Shop> Z
[17:33:26] <JT-Shop> X is set only in the tool table by taking a cut and measuring
[17:33:48] <JT-Shop> I never (unless I make a mistake) have an X G54 offset
[17:34:11] <JT-Shop> make any sense?
[17:34:12] <willburrrr2003> should my z 0.0 position be near the spindle face? I have it at the other end of my table
[17:34:36] <JT-Shop> the machine coordinate?
[17:34:39] <willburrrr2003> yes
[17:34:54] <JT-Shop> mine is at the other end
[17:35:09] <willburrrr2003> the spindle end?
[17:35:26] <JT-Shop> if I had a tailstock it would be on that end
[17:35:46] <willburrrr2003> ok , same as mine
[17:35:52] <JT-Shop> but that won't make any difference
[17:36:23] <JT-Shop> if you set the Z tool table with a G54 offset you don't get what you expect :)
[17:36:43] <willburrrr2003> I found that out, I cleared all the offsets and re-touched off my tools
[17:37:04] <JT-Shop> did you touch off all your tools to a fixed point?
[17:37:10] <JT-Shop> in the tool table
[17:38:08] <willburrrr2003> I touched them off to the tool table z using the dead center I had chucked up in the spindle and called that z0.0
[17:38:53] <JT-Shop> that will not be repeatable unless your dead center only goes in the same distance each time
[17:39:43] <willburrrr2003> it's tapered and the hole in the 3 jaw chuck is not. Only goes in the same distance each time
[17:39:55] <JT-Shop> ok, that works then
[17:40:33] <JT-Shop> now you can take almost any tool and touch off your G54 to the material end and all your tools will have the correct Z length
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[17:41:16] <willburrrr2003> so I have to be in an unused coordinate system, instead of being in machine coordinate system for the touch off to tool table?
[17:41:24] <JT-Shop> but you want to test it a few times to be sure you did it correctly
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[17:41:53] <JT-Shop> yes, you can't "be in" the machine coordinate system
[17:42:34] <Jymmm> You must be one with the machine
[17:43:46] <willburrrr2003> ok, I will give it a shot again tonight :) spent hours messing with it last night....would get it to work, thinking I fixed the problem and change part only to have the overtravel alarm again...was fun and frustrating at the same time hehe
[17:44:54] <willburrrr2003> I appreciate the walk-thru JT-Shop, makes things clearer on the procedure as not much seems to be in the docs for touching off the tooling
[17:46:25] <JT-Shop> np
[17:46:50] <JT-Shop> I was trying to make a video but gave up :/
[17:54:22] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop : speaking of videos, was looking at yours on youtube...there was a short one that looked like a creash into the spindle, did it do much damage?
[17:59:44] <JT-Shop> not much except my pride
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[18:02:34] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop : I can understand that, did the same thing about a week ago...except didn't get it on video...but had a bunch of my friends that were over witness it :-|
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[18:55:42] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you use your machine zero as your x y fixture offset as well?
[18:57:30] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I'm not sure what your asking
[18:58:11] <Tom_itx> i'm used to entering values in for G54
[18:58:17] <Tom_itx> and not leaving x y zero
[18:58:36] <Tom_itx> unless i misread ^^
[18:59:14] <Tom_itx> <JT-Shop> I never (unless I make a mistake) have an X G54 offset
[18:59:51] <JT-Shop> my lathe :)
[18:59:58] <Tom_itx> OH!
[19:00:20] <Tom_itx> that makes more sense
[19:00:34] <Tom_itx> does emc allow you to make a boundary box around your lathe work?
[19:00:47] <Tom_itx> so no tool will gouge something it's not supposed to
[19:00:48] <JT-Shop> by mistake I might have the X axis checked off when I want to do Z
[19:00:58] <JT-Shop> no
[19:01:11] <Tom_itx> the little okuma kadet i worked with had that.
[19:01:13] <Tom_itx> it was nice
[19:01:33] <Tom_itx> being paged... bak later on
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[19:10:48] <mrsunshine> yeey, had the lathe running today, it runs beatifully =)
[19:10:57] <mrsunshine> it just sucked down the oil from the oil hole :P
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[19:14:03] <mrsunshine> tho the gears on it sounds like hell =)
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[19:20:24] <JT-Shop> [08:55] JT-Work 8k is way too fast for steel
[19:20:37] <JT-Shop> never listen to that guy when recalling from memory ^^
[19:25:36] <mrsunshine> http://www.youtube.com/user/myfordboy#p/u/2/q9bbYM8z2Aw oo i want that blade =)
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[19:37:56] <syyl> that looks scary :D
[19:38:15] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0_6VmY6mns&feature=related
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[19:42:59] <syyl> i love it, when such work is done on a lathe :)
[19:43:58] <syyl> in a not THAT common way
[19:44:11] <syyl> or should i say, almost forgotten way..
[19:46:11] * mrsunshine needs a day in the chamber now, to fix up the stuff for the lathe, rebuild stuff on the mill and get it all together so they can work in harmony =)
[19:47:25] <mrsunshine> now i can start building serious stuff atleast =)
[19:47:38] <mrsunshine> no more running around half the world borrowing a lathe each time i need something round :P
[19:48:12] <syyl> now you got a lathe, you can start making tools to make tools to make...
[19:48:32] <mrsunshine> haha =)
[19:48:33] <mrsunshine> yeah :P
[19:48:40] <JT-Shop> got your bearing sorted out?
[19:48:51] <mrsunshine> aye
[19:48:56] <mrsunshine> made a new one =)
[19:49:41] <mrsunshine> now only thing is, what oil to use :/
[19:49:50] <mrsunshine> atm i have put in some oil that i have in the moped gear box :P
[19:50:16] <syyl> plain bearing of a small lathe?
[19:50:35] <syyl> most use a very light oil
[19:50:37] <JT-Shop> any oil is better than none, but spindle oil might be a good choice
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[19:57:28] <mrsunshine> syyl, 47mm brass bearing
[19:59:23] <syyl> friend of mine has a boley 4L
[19:59:46] <syyl> that has tapered bronce bearings almost around the same size
[20:00:04] <mrsunshine> tapered also? :)
[20:00:08] <mrsunshine> mine are just plain
[20:00:32] <syyl> can you adjust the clearance in some way?
[20:00:47] <mrsunshine> in the bearings ?
[20:00:52] <syyl> yes
[20:00:56] <mrsunshine> there is a bolt to tighten them yes
[20:01:03] <mrsunshine> i guess that one realy needs shims tho
[20:01:14] <syyl> ah ok
[20:01:16] <mrsunshine> as as soon as i touch the bolt head it binds :P
[20:01:22] <mrsunshine> alot of stuff missing on the lathe :/
[20:01:39] <mrsunshine> felt holder on the thingie that goes back and forth, shims, oil cups
[20:01:53] <andypugh> The taper ones are often in pairs, or into taper bores, and you screw them in to take up slack. But you knew that.
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[20:02:37] <andypugh> tbh even though my dad has two perfectly good plain-bearing lathes, I only want one with Gamet bearings.
[20:02:48] <syyl> keep the oilers well filled and it will work for a long time :)
[20:02:50] <mrsunshine> nop, dont know much about thsi at all, most is just guess work but the stuff i read :P
[20:03:16] <mrsunshine> syyl, thing is that its like a black hole when i fill the holes with oil :P
[20:03:25] <mrsunshine> it just pulls it all down, so i guess i have to add it bit by bit :P
[20:03:25] <syyl> like my aciera
[20:03:31] <syyl> or my little shaper
[20:03:45] <syyl> dont know where all the oil goes :D
[20:03:49] <syyl> but
[20:04:06] <syyl> i prefer a bit to much oil over worn ways..
[20:04:47] <mrsunshine> its just a hole straight down into the bearing and throught to the axle, from the look of the other small cups on it it should be something similiar there, its a very small one with a little lid on it
[20:05:03] <mrsunshine> syyl, well the oil on the lathe goes into my face :P
[20:05:15] <mrsunshine> as it works its way out and gets slingshotted around :P
[20:05:24] <syyl> gives a soft skin
[20:06:00] <mrsunshine> http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/45390.jpg like those =)
[20:07:07] <jtektool> xorg.conf missing in ubuntu??? huh im a little confused where is etc/X11/xorg.conf
[20:07:14] <jtektool> <<gentoo user
[20:07:22] <jtektool> mostly
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[20:08:23] <andypugh> Ubuntu doesn't use xorg.conf any more, unless you ask it to.
[20:08:26] <mrsunshine> jtektool, most is autodetected these days
[20:08:36] <jtektool> thats gay
[20:08:39] <mrsunshine> if you have a xorg.conf it will use it if im not mistaking
[20:08:42] <mrsunshine> if you want to tinker
[20:08:48] <mrsunshine> jtektool, works great =)
[20:08:52] <jtektool> autoconfig makes us stupid
[20:09:29] <andypugh> I like being stupid. I use a Mac mostly.
[20:09:42] <jtektool> i like my vim editor and doing things manually or at least from example configs
[20:10:00] <jtektool> ubuntu = linux for girls
[20:10:05] <andypugh> http://www.osguides.net/operation-systems/217-how-to-create-xorgconf-in-ubuntu-910.html
[20:10:13] <jtektool> thanxs
[20:10:25] <andypugh> If you have a problem with girls, and/or gays, then feel free to use a different OS>
[20:10:31] <cradek> yeah haha because girls are stupid amiright huh
[20:10:42] <mrsunshine> jtektool, been using gentoo for many years, but then i figured, fuck it i do not have time to sit by the computer for hours on end just configuring useflags and recompiling stuff :P
[20:10:45] <jtektool> yeah well not saying theyre stupid
[20:10:55] <cradek> well sure you were
[20:11:19] <jtektool> not saying i have a problem with gays either, im just neither one
[20:11:20] <mrsunshine> nothing turns on a girl like a cnc mill!
[20:11:29] <mrsunshine> milling them a heart right out of solid steel! ;P
[20:11:30] <andypugh> He could be saying that the OS uses colours like fuchsia and taupe, that boys can't even name ;-)
[20:11:56] <jtektool> like i said im no biggot
[20:12:01] <cradek> uh what OS should gays use? I don't keep up with the rules/stereotypes
[20:12:11] <jtektool> i just cant find very many girls to give gentoo a go
[20:12:35] <andypugh> cradek: MacOS of course! doh!
[20:12:41] <cradek> oh damn
[20:12:42] <jtektool> i have a lot of gay friends actually and they use the adjective "gay" freely
[20:12:53] <jtektool> for MAC OS
[20:13:25] <jtektool> like thats "gay"
[20:14:18] <jtektool> how many women/homosexuals are on here right now...nuff said
[20:14:49] <andypugh> You can tell from screen names?
[20:14:55] <cradek> yeah - if there were any we could tell from their typing
[20:15:05] <cradek> the girls type in pink and the gays in purple
[20:15:07] <jdhNC> I'm a lesbian
[20:15:08] <willburrrr2003> I'm a lesbian trapped in a mans body...does that count (sw)
[20:15:29] <jtektool> ok so not actually a girl or the gays to whom i was talking
[20:15:55] <cradek> (what's that expression about when to stop digging?)
[20:15:59] <jtektool> ^lesbian
[20:16:09] <jtektool> ahahhahahah
[20:16:30] <willburrrr2003> hehe
[20:16:33] <jtektool> well i dont want to get into why people are gay either
[20:16:41] <jtektool> look into the disappearing male
[20:17:03] <jtektool> its a video about how pcbs are shrinking penises
[20:17:13] <jtektool> try that on for size
[20:18:10] <jdhNC> it's the interwebbes, I can be whatever I want to be
[20:18:16] <jtektool> BPA and Phtahlates (sp???)
[20:18:41] <jtektool> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCoQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationliberation.com%2F%3Fid%3D26130&ei=70zlTcjwJozegQeCq-GTBg&usg=AFQjCNFvuXTQOGte96RbYuOCvP1_9wo06A
[20:19:19] <jtektool> anyways way deeper than i wanted to get into ubuntu is still kinda lame
[20:19:26] <jtektool> IMHO
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[20:20:49] <jtektool> yeah well sorry if i pissed anyone off im just old school and i like text editors and command shells
[20:21:26] <jtektool> auto magick stuff will dumb you down quicker than drugs
[20:21:44] <jtektool> <<<^^^just my philosophy
[20:21:56] <jtektool> thats why i left windows world in 1997
[20:22:08] <mrsunshine> jtektool, well im more in the console then in the gui me to so =) still they have made it easy for stuff to just work, its not a bad thing realy =)
[20:22:39] <mrsunshine> its like walking over the atlantic when there is planes :P
[20:22:48] <jtektool> it is when you take sabayon for instance there is no easy way to make a static ip without writing a script
[20:23:25] <jtektool> yeah but jesus could walk on water LOL
[20:23:42] <jtektool> do you wan to be jesus or just an angel LMFAO
[20:24:09] <syyl> got big shoes..
[20:24:16] <syyl> can walk on water
[20:25:28] <jtektool> its like people have a hard time doing math now because everyone has a calculator in their pocket...
[20:28:04] <jtektool> anyways peace, all that for how to write a xorg.conf......sheesh 'nix people (self included)
[20:29:18] <mrsunshine> haha =)
[20:29:30] <jtektool> what happens when you plug in a new video card does it automatically figure it out....
[20:29:42] <jtektool> cuz my drivers acting crazy
[20:30:03] <jtektool> and i cant even find my xorg.conf
[20:30:58] <jtektool> btw my latency went from 14898 to 12626 by plugging in a matrox millenium card but it acts haywire
[20:31:06] <Tom_itx> andypugh, did you get your windoz boot back
[20:31:21] <Tom_itx> fdisk /mbr
[20:31:39] <andypugh> Yes, I found an application called WInClone specifically for cloning BootCamp partitions.
[20:32:05] <jtektool> doesnt anybody just use dd anymore...???
[20:32:08] <andypugh> jtektool: That link shows how to generate an xorg.conf
[20:32:30] <andypugh> dd doesn't make the partition bootable in Windows.
[20:32:43] <Tom_itx> ^^ will
[20:36:00] <jtektool> yes it does
[20:36:09] <jtektool> bs = 512 count = 1
[20:37:23] <jtektool> dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/home/you/thisfile.whatever
[20:37:26] -!- psha has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[20:38:19] <Tom_itx> that's too much to remember
[20:38:27] <jtektool> dd if=/dev/sda of=/home/you/thisfile.whatever bs=512 count=1
[20:38:52] <jtektool> are you kidding me this is why i say auto magick makes us stupid
[20:39:03] <jtektool> man dd
[20:39:53] <Tom_itx> from a window or cmd prompt? :D
[20:40:13] <jtektool> pop in a linux live iso like insert linux
[20:41:02] <jtektool> or easy cheezy = clonezilla
[20:41:35] <jtektool> oh i give up
[20:41:52] <jtektool> but thats how i backup my viper 950 and viper 1100 machines
[20:42:05] <jtektool> (OLD WINDOWS 95 BOXES)
[20:42:34] <jtektool> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-copy-mbr/
[20:42:34] <Tom_itx> i'm sure it would work. i didn't grow up on linux
[20:42:54] <Tom_itx> i'm trying to pick it up a little at a time
[20:43:02] <jtektool> me neither, i just left the windows world a decade ago cuxz i was a dos maven in the 80s
[20:43:22] <Tom_itx> i still use 6.22 some
[20:43:37] <jtektool> best os ms ever made
[20:44:22] <jtektool> in linux terminal cd is just like dos
[20:44:31] <jtektool> but the command ls replaces dir
[20:44:51] <jtektool> and now you have forward slashes
[20:45:01] <jtektool> like cd /mnt/sda1
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[20:45:26] <jtektool> for change directory to /mnt/(serial device #1)
[20:45:47] <jtektool> if you know those two commands you can do almost anything
[20:45:55] <jtektool> (like dos)
[20:46:15] <jtektool> ./filename executes it
[20:46:49] <jtektool> d
[20:47:03] <jtektool> (/ is kinda like the c drive)
[20:47:10] <jtektool> it is called root
[20:47:51] <jtektool> <<<<gotta go work on my machine c u later
[20:48:00] <Tom_itx> mkay
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[21:53:45] <JT-Shop> seems to be 5 o'clock here
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[22:00:43] <Tom_itx> straight up
[22:04:07] <JT-Shop> Corona with a bit of lime
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[22:20:41] <Tom_itx> what's max rpm on a standard bridgeport spindle?
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[22:26:27] <JT-Shop> mine is 4200
[22:26:37] <JT-Shop> but I don't like the sound above 3k
[22:27:34] <JT-Shop> and I've been through the head many times replacing parts and looking for the source of the extra loud spindle
[22:28:53] <Valen> column / spindle itself out of whack?
[22:29:00] <Tom_itx> just trying to get a feel for where to head with this pulley change i'm doing
[22:29:21] <Valen> more rpm is never bad
[22:29:28] <Valen> until you blow your bearings
[22:29:47] <Tom_itx> right now it advertises 2800 max
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[22:30:05] <Tom_itx> and the motor to head ratio is 2:1 on that
[22:30:27] <JT-Shop> Valen: I think the speed pulley is a bit worn even though I changed the liner
[22:30:35] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't think the motor was spinning 5600
[22:31:11] <Valen> ac induction motors usually run ~1200 or 2400 or so rpm
[22:31:22] <Tom_itx> this is a 90v dc motor
[22:31:27] <Valen> wergh!
[22:31:28] <Valen> lol
[22:31:59] <Tom_itx> and i just took the dimensions off the pulleys yesterday
[22:32:09] <Tom_itx> going off their advertized specs for rpm
[22:32:31] <Valen> if its a DC motor then 5600RPM is entirley feasable
[22:32:50] <Valen> what diameter is it?
[22:33:52] <Tom_itx> what/
[22:33:55] <Tom_itx> ?
[22:34:39] <Valen> the motor
[22:34:59] <Tom_itx> 3" approx
[22:35:30] <Valen> yeah that'd probably run to like 10K rpm if its well built
[22:35:30] <Tom_itx> i'm lookin for their pulley upgrade to see what it's supposed to do
[22:35:39] <Tom_itx> i doubt it's that well built
[22:35:47] <Tom_itx> it could be but i doubt it
[22:36:12] <Valen> (the speed limit for dc motors is the point where the windings are flung from the rotor due to centrifugal force)
[22:37:26] <willburrrr2003> JT-Shop, I ordered a set of 3/8" indexable turning tools. the tools are TAR,TAL,TBR,TBL, and TE...can you tell me what these tool abreiviations mean ?
[22:38:19] <willburrrr2003> I recieved them a couple weeks ago, and now that lathe is up and running would like to know what each tool is for so I can use them for the correct applications....
[22:38:26] <Tom_itx> last letter is Right or Left i bet
[22:38:45] <JT-Shop> I'd guess triangle, right, left, dunno the rest... maybe one neutral one other two might be facing tools
[22:39:16] <JT-Shop> got a link?
[22:39:19] <willburrrr2003> sounds like a good gues, as they are triangle carbide inserts
[22:39:32] <willburrrr2003> yea, just a sec I will post it
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[22:40:00] <willburrrr2003> here is the link http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1669&category=1208242246
[22:40:53] <JT-Shop> the middle one is neutral for turning OD features
[22:41:38] <willburrrr2003> k, that makes sense
[22:41:48] <jcizek> JT-Shop: Got time for a quick question? I'm getting very close to having your config work!
[22:41:53] <JT-Shop> the other 4 are OD tools as well just different angles.
[22:41:57] <Tom_itx> 10,000 rpm pulley set: $380
[22:41:58] <JT-Shop> neat!
[22:42:22] <JT-Shop> jcizek: yes
[22:42:25] <Tom_itx> err that's with the motor
[22:42:31] <Tom_itx> the pulleys are $80
[22:42:37] <Tom_itx> but that tells me the ratio
[22:43:01] <elmo40> how much Hp for 10,000?
[22:43:15] <Tom_itx> they use the same motor
[22:43:26] <jcizek> jt: so i think i have all the pins connected up (hopefully right!!) but can't get EMC to start due to rror: no pyvcp element in file! error. I have removed all the references to volts in both the xml file and the postgui... what might i be missing?
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[22:44:21] <JT-Shop> you don't have <pyvcp> </pyvcp> surrounding your buttons etc in the xml file
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[22:45:20] <JT-Shop> jcizek: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_pyvcp.html#r1_2
[22:47:17] <jcizek> I have a <pyvcp> and </Pyvcp> at the top and bottom of file respectively... (actually YOU do since it's your file I am modifying!!) Do you need them before and after each element?
[22:48:14] <JT-Shop> no only once... it the last one Pyvcp?
[22:48:34] <jcizek> second to last line is this exactly: </pyvcp>
[22:48:44] <JT-Shop> ok that is right
[22:49:13] * JT-Shop formulates another guess
[22:49:41] <JT-Shop> what is the exact error?
[22:50:03] <jcizek> Starting EMC2...
[22:50:04] <jcizek> Error: no pyvcp element in file!
[22:50:06] <jcizek> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[22:50:18] <JT-Shop> ok pastebin your xml file
[22:50:39] <willburrrr2003> ok, a bit more looking and now I have the answer , L and R are for left and right . a,b, and e indicate relative angle to the shank. A=0 deg, B=15 deg, and E=60 deg , with T being as JT-Shop suggested as being triangle.
[22:50:56] <JT-Shop> there you go
[22:51:23] <jcizek> JT: http://pastebin.ca/2072988
[22:51:48] <SWPadnos> get rid of <pre> </pre>
[22:51:51] <JT-Shop> oh crap take that <pre> tag out
[22:51:54] <willburrrr2003> just had to try a different search, this time used "lathe tool styles" as searching for lathe tool definitions never gave me the answer
[22:52:02] <jcizek> JT-shop: both the first and last?
[22:52:07] <JT-Shop> yes
[22:52:13] <SWPadnos> both, they go together
[22:52:44] <JT-Shop> it was an attempt by me to have it show up on the web formatted correctly but it is a failure :/
[22:53:27] <jcizek> jt-shop: ok, that did it.. i got some other failures, but it's pin names and I can fix that!! Gotta run, didn';t realize how late it was.. gotta take my pup to the very for his annual inspection!! Thanks JT, ill likely be back on a bit later!
[22:53:38] <Valen> Tom_itx: replace it with a 3Kw brushless motor for added win ;->
[22:53:52] <JT-Shop> ok, great give the puppy a hug when it gets a shot
[22:54:12] <jcizek> will do! he's a good dog :) cya
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[22:54:48] <JT-Shop> time to go play with mine now that you mention it
[23:00:37] <andypugh> willburrrr2003: I have seen that set all over the place, and resisted as most of the geometries look useless.
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[23:01:41] <andypugh> What _is_ useful is a holder for the 30 degree diamond-shaped tools, as they can squeeze in between the centre and the work..
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[23:05:31] <willburrrr2003> Andypugh: They were part of a set, came with the indexable tools, quick change tool post with two tool holders a boring bar holder and a partoff tool holder, center drills, boring bar set, tail stock drill adapter, and part off tool
[23:05:57] <willburrrr2003> I am sure I will get more variety of tooling as I progress though ;)
[23:06:16] * Jymmm waves to SWPadnos
[23:06:22] <SWPadnos> hi
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[23:22:31] <willburrrr2003> Well , getting ready to punch out and head off to home so I can play with my lathe some more :D have fun all!
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[23:25:31] * JT-Shop goes to see if the dog wants to play some more ya think?
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[23:38:35] <skunkworks> cradek: did the storms miss you guys>
[23:41:23] <Tom_itx> Valen, that would likely require a spindle bearing upgrade too
[23:43:08] <Valen> possibly
[23:43:13] <Valen> depends on how much you do with it
[23:43:34] <Valen> running bearings over their rated speed is not inherently a bad thing
[23:43:54] <Valen> provided you keep them cool they will even retain much of their lifespan
[23:44:25] <Valen> well much may be too strong a word but still
[23:44:58] <andypugh> Valen: There is a speed limit for PM DC motors you didn't mention, when the back-EMF is so high that you can't increase the voltage any more without arcing through the insulation.
[23:45:01] <Valen> put it this way, if you have decent bearings to start with, I'd run em untill they die
[23:45:02] <Tom_itx> it's not under continuous use anyway
[23:45:20] <Tom_itx> and they feel good and smooth right now
[23:45:30] <Valen> andypugh: generally the motors i've seen will overspeed before they overvolt ;->
[23:47:18] <Valen> that or the bush bearings they seem to use in the little ones catches fire
[23:47:46] <Valen> yeah keep em cool and don't go stupidly over speed and it should be ok
[23:50:39] <Tom_itx> i'll have to hunt down a belt for it too probably as the pulleys will be smaller
[23:51:01] <Tom_itx> well one will
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[23:55:13] <andypugh> Night all
[23:55:21] <Tom_shop> gnite
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