#emc | Logs for 2011-05-28

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[00:01:15] <andypugh> Night all
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[00:18:10] <Tom_itx> well the numbers don't make much sense but it's working better
[00:18:38] <Gensor> try using letters
[00:18:49] <Tom_itx> greek?
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[00:54:53] <Tom_itx> that seems alot better
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[01:05:58] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what sort of velocity to expect from a stepper but this is much better than the original control
[01:21:17] <Tom_itx> could somebody point me to the description for the variables found in the 7i43xxx.ini files?
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[01:22:40] <Tom_itx> i think i'm making good progress but going about it blind
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[01:28:27] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: How are you with microstepping config? I'm not sure I understand what's valid for my machine. Apparently my drivers are set for a microstepping of 25, but I only seem to get close to real measurements when I use 10 as a microstepping value.
[01:29:08] <Tom_itx> i don't have good drivers yet so i'm not sure
[01:32:07] <Tom_itx> use what works
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[02:35:45] <FinboySlick> I have to learn to stop trusting that chinese documentation. Turns out the drivers were set to a microstepping of 10 :P
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[02:41:24] <noick> hello all
[02:41:38] <FinboySlick> noick: Yo.
[02:42:21] <noick> anyone got 5mins or so to learn me up on drive modes ?
[02:58:02] <FinboySlick> noick: I have 5 min but I'm not even at knowing what drive modes are yet.
[03:08:49] <noick> hi
[03:09:10] <noick> I'm wondering about hwo to set up servo drives with EMC2
[03:09:40] <noick> if EMC is going to close the loop, I'm not sure how to set up the drives themseves
[03:11:04] <noick> do I somehow relinquish control to EMC and the drives go into a dumber mode of sorts ?
[03:11:29] <noick> as if I keep them closing the loop also then their loop is 'closer' to the motor than EMC will be
[03:11:51] <noick> so EMC ends up closing a loop that is already closed so to speak
[03:12:00] <noick> loops within loops
[03:13:16] <noick> I may as well run EMC in a stepper kind of fashion but with the encoders still going in to check the drives are still behaving - or is this in effect what is happening anyway >?
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[03:19:17] <pcw_home> If you run servo drives its probably better to run the drives in velocity mode and let EMC close the position loop
[03:19:40] <noick> PEter ?
[03:19:50] <pcw_home> Yes
[03:20:05] <noick> Gidday, I have your 5i22 and 7i33 here
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[03:21:19] <noick> muddling my way through it all - sometimes the hardest part is keeping all the various manuals and wiki together so you dont lose your place ;)
[03:21:48] <noick> thing is, I dont recall ever setting which mode EMC runs in
[03:21:53] <noick> I know how to set my drives
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[03:22:34] <pcw_home> I think it makes it easier if the tuning is done in one place
[03:22:37] <pcw_home> Although unless you use a bare Hbridge the drive will always
[03:22:39] <pcw_home> run the current (torque) loop and may run the velocity loop
[03:22:43] <noick> but dont recall ever chosing in EMC2 which mode it runs in - pncconf for instance
[03:23:25] <noick> I'm running various BLDC and ACservo motors
[03:23:41] <noick> (with their own drives)
[03:25:47] <pcw_home> EMC just runs a single position PID loop. This will work for velocity, torque or voltage (Hbridge) drives
[03:25:49] <pcw_home> but the tuning will be quite different for the different modes. Also velocity mode drive can get away with
[03:25:50] <pcw_home> slower update rates, a 1 KHz thread would be fine for CNC systems with velocity mode drives
[03:25:52] <pcw_home> but you may need 2-4 KHz for a torque mode drive
[03:26:06] <noick> What I've never really understood about position and velocity modes is that although they are ituitively different things they are 'integrally' connected (literally and figurativily)
[03:26:55] <noick> since the time periods involved are set then the difference is just a matter of math
[03:27:02] <pcw_home> Well since the PID loop has both position (P) and velocity feedback (D) it can do both
[03:28:50] <noick> ahhh, so the PID params you set in your HAL file for EMC to play with will need adjustment if you change drive modes in drives ...
[03:29:15] <noick> EMC is 'blind' to the drive mode -
[03:29:17] <noick> ?
[03:31:06] <noick> so an Hbridge drive is the closest that EMC2 will get to being directly in control of a motor ?
[03:34:35] <pcw_home> Yes but it has some limitations (ideally EMC would need to know the power supply voltage to apply the correct FF1 amount)
[03:35:06] <noick> Say I tuned my nice 'expensive brand automation supplier' drives really well for an application then ran a really tame/simple motion profile in EMC - would EMC ever even see any following error for its loop to work with ?
[03:37:18] <noick> would it just see propation delay maybe - that would fit into a hysteresis/dead band anyway ?
[03:40:20] <pcw_home> If you used step/dir and relied on the drives tuning that might be the case, if you used step/dir with encoders you could just verify the error
[03:40:22] <pcw_home> was below your limits. But if you are going to use feedback anyway, I think I would just let EMC close the loop the normal way
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[03:41:06] <noick> yes, I plan to
[03:41:27] <noick> this nested loop thing kinda threw my logic for a whiel
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[03:43:13] <noick> the impression I get/got of EMC when I first looked into all the options was that it had **control** over the drives - like it was at the front lines of battle
[03:43:28] <noick> but I now see it more like the battle command
[03:43:47] <pcw_home> EMC controlling the loop may have some advantages for the feed-forward terms as well
[03:44:02] <noick> but with a much better overview of the situation than say mach3
[03:44:14] <noick> (not to mention a heap of other good stuff)
[03:44:52] <noick> feed forward is something I get in theory or maybe just in a half correct metaphorical sense
[03:45:06] <noick> will read up on it in due course
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[03:45:49] <pcw_home> Plus EMC is open so you alway have the ability to look at/change the source
[03:46:33] <pcw_home> Feed forward is important (feedback is good but always too late)
[03:47:46] <noick> yup, prettymuch the reason I'm here - looong term goal is to develop my own GUI - take it away from G-code and have more of an animation paradigm, SMPTE timecode input to run timing etc...
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[03:48:33] <noick> maybe just use your softDMC for a while - EMC no longer involved
[03:48:40] <noick> will see
[03:49:46] <pcw_home> One way of looking at feed forward is that it centers the operating point (that the PID works on)
[03:49:48] <pcw_home> around the current velocity and acceleration (which can come from the TP so are known)
[03:50:08] <noick> TP ?
[03:50:33] <pcw_home> Trajectory Planner
[03:51:05] <noick> as I understand it feedforward is a bit of a misnomer
[03:51:55] <noick> you need to observe the system and learn from its peculiarities in order to define FF parameters
[03:52:11] <noick> which in a sense is 'feedback'
[03:52:42] <noick> I'm being a little abstract though
[03:52:44] <noick> ;)
[03:52:45] <pcw_home> Kind of modeling
[03:53:58] <noick> maybe next year I'll be doing control theory at uni
[03:54:23] <noick> It'll be GREAT
[03:55:04] <noick> time to my taxes
[03:55:06] <noick> ugh
[03:55:46] <noick> ok, so thank you very much for the chat, cemented a little more knowledge in place for sure !
[03:55:59] <pcw_home> For example a bare HBridge (voltage mode) need FF1 set so that the Hbridge generate a voltage equal to the motors back EMF at a particular velocity
[03:56:01] <pcw_home> have fun with you taxes...
[03:56:30] <noick> good example - yup, I got the understanding on it
[03:56:45] <noick> but when a config wizard asks you for FF:
[03:57:05] <noick> and you seem to able to plug in any dang float you like it gets a little scary
[03:57:30] <noick> but there aint no units! waaaaah !! help
[03:57:33] <noick> ;)
[03:57:36] <noick> see you !
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[04:35:55] <FinboySlick> Alright, I figured out most of the spindle magic, I'm a bit confused when it comes to homing though. To keep things simple... Should keyboard jog (left,right,up,down,pg-up,pg-down) all match the directions of a standard 3 axis mill? Eg: hitting left moves the table left, etc.
[04:36:21] * FinboySlick uses a fraction more brain...
[04:36:49] <FinboySlick> Now I'm thinking it ought to be the reverse, since we're moving the tool relative to the part.
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[05:20:52] <noick> hello all again
[05:21:02] <noick> anyone here using the D510MO motherboard ?
[05:38:58] <L84Supper> several are, just not here right now
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[06:16:28] <noick> hmmm
[06:17:28] <noick> The PC I'm using wigth EMC is a bit laggy in UI responsiveness - would like something newer...
[06:17:49] <noick> I've read that a few people using them with EMC are going all solidstate
[06:18:35] <L84Supper> solidstate vs tubes (crt)?
[06:19:22] <noick> Apart from the interest in having a completely silent machine are there any benefits of avoiding a cheaper and larger capicity HD and going to solid state drives ?
[06:19:32] <noick> I'm talking HDD's
[06:20:52] <psha> noick: do you need all capacity of hdd?
[06:21:01] <noick> I know the motherboard in question is fanless - that and the fact they were talking about solid state drives meant that maybe a linux machine with no moving parts helped with latency or something - intuition says 'no', but I dont much about this stuff
[06:21:54] <noick> The machine will be a windoze/linux dual partition and will work on other jobs than just sitting next to a mill running EMC
[06:22:14] <psha> install windows to hdd, make "common" fat partition there
[06:22:14] <noick> so a larger capacity drive would be good
[06:22:43] <psha> and use small CF card for linux root partition
[06:23:15] <psha> my (not very old) dev machine uses 1.5Gb (excluding home)
[06:23:17] <noick> I guess my question is - what is it exactly about these specific motherboards and CF cards/solid state drives that makes them good for EMC ?
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[06:23:27] <psha> nothing special
[06:23:45] <psha> truly speaking if you have already started emc every critical piece is locked into memory
[06:24:12] <psha> so disk io occurs only for extra userspace applications
[06:24:20] <noick> you're talking about the RTAI stuff huh ?
[06:24:24] <psha> os if you want better responsibility from system - add more memory
[06:24:41] <noick> the D510MO can take 4Gb of RAM
[06:24:50] <psha> they'll be cached shortly and you'll get better response time
[06:24:58] <psha> 2Gb is enought
[06:25:01] <psha> even 1 is nce
[06:25:02] <psha> nice
[06:25:34] <noick> I'm going to get 1x2Gb - leave a slot free ...
[06:26:46] <noick> My impression of the motherboards was that for some reason (that I dont know) they weren't prone to the real time issues that newer motherboards were prone to (compared to older machines)
[06:27:00] <noick> so thats just an assumption ?
[06:28:16] <psha> hm, i've missed your point
[06:28:35] <psha> what do you call 'new' and what old?
[06:28:37] <psha> logger[psha]: .
[06:29:48] <noick> new... um, ok newer than 5 years
[06:30:06] <psha> it's hard to tell
[06:30:19] <psha> new mobos are not working with older kernels and vice versa (usually)
[06:31:19] <noick> The D510MO - if its nothing special, then why is it... er, special ?
[06:31:30] <psha> it's known to work :)
[06:31:45] <psha> nothing special == good! :)
[06:32:00] <noick> heh heh - I see your point - and its cheap too
[06:32:03] <psha> most of "special" parts of mobo may kill jitter
[06:32:26] <psha> since usually vendor uses some bios/hw hacks to enable "special" features
[06:32:27] <noick> kill jitter = make it bigger right ?
[06:32:31] <psha> yea
[06:32:41] <noick> right, I;m getting the vibe here
[06:33:21] <psha> d510mo and friends are "nothing special" - well supported onboard intel graphics, well supported chipset etc
[06:33:30] <noick> I was hoping there would be a motherboard listed in the hackintosh sites (running OS X on x86) that could run RTAI with low latency
[06:33:35] <noick> I bet there is...
[06:33:50] <noick> but I dont want to spend the $$$ finding it
[06:34:11] <psha> surely there are some - rtai will run on most x86... but results may vary
[06:34:42] <psha> as you already noticed 510 is cheap - thats why it's so widely tested
[06:35:09] <psha> even i made one computer based on this board to control firends mill
[06:35:27] <noick> I think I'll get the D510MO - then get a hackintosh system with only consideration to OS X later - try EMC2 on it - maybe I'll get lucky
[06:35:32] <psha> but i've home router based on d510 - so first i've just tested that it works
[06:36:28] <noick> I'll be running Mesa 5i22 and one or two 7i33 cards
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[06:42:00] <noick> I cant find the boards current draw
[06:43:30] <noick> the mesa cards are 2A and 2*100mA
[06:43:47] <noick> 12V supply = around 30W requirement
[06:44:02] <noick> the recommended 12v supply is the 80W
[06:44:06] <noick> hmmmm
[06:44:20] <noick> might go higher ? no idea from Intel so far
[06:47:09] <psha> about d510 consumption?
[06:47:10] <psha> ~25W
[06:47:19] <psha> typical is less
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[06:52:03] <noick> cool
[06:52:25] <noick> thanks for that - so I'm in the range with a bit to spare
[06:57:00] <noick> the 'small CF card' for the linux root partition ...
[06:57:34] <noick> do you mind showing me exactly what I'd need to get that going here:
[06:57:35] <noick> http://www.mini-box.com/Flash-Storage
[06:59:51] <noick> these ones: http://www.mini-box.com/SATA-Flash-Modules ?
[07:00:06] <psha> unfortunately d510mo lacks IDE connector
[07:00:33] <psha> so you cheap ide2cf would not work
[07:00:45] <psha> sata flash are not cheap...
[07:00:52] <noick> I see that!
[07:00:59] <psha> for my router i've used compressed image on usb flash
[07:01:14] <psha> for cnc it would suffice too but it's not easy to setup
[07:01:15] <noick> howabout:http://www.mini-box.com/Wintec-Solid-State-Drive-32GB
[07:01:33] <psha> however it's bulletproof solution
[07:01:39] <psha> since root is RO in memory
[07:01:45] <noick> I'm such a mac user I;ve never built my own PC - sorry if I'm asking wally questions
[07:02:07] <psha> no problem
[07:02:51] <noick> as far as I can tell the D510MO has two sata connectors
[07:03:03] <psha> yes
[07:03:49] <noick> so one goes to the http://www.mini-box.com/Wintec-Solid-State-Drive-32GB (32Gb solid state drive) and the other to the 250Gb 2.5" HDD
[07:04:18] <noick> 32Gb would be enough to get me going though huh - maybe just linux only for a while ...
[07:04:27] <psha> yes, but don't forget that if you'll use small chasis you need some place for that :)
[07:04:40] <noick> ah yes
[07:04:59] <psha> mobo is 17x17 with height of ~5cm
[07:05:05] <psha> very large heatsink
[07:06:01] <noick> Yeh, was wondering about that - I know there are PCI risers and whatnot - but is there such a thing as a PCI extension lead - so I can see the LEDS on my mesa card without farting about with fibreoptics ?
[07:06:24] <noick> and the same for SATA so I can make space ?
[07:07:51] <psha> sata? heh, sata uses flexible cables
[07:08:05] <psha> so you may place your diskes whereever you want
[07:09:53] <psha> if you are using sata dom's then you need to plug them directly but they consume not much space
[07:10:02] <psha> DOM == disk on module
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[07:21:01] <noick> hmmm, what does '10,000 Write/Erase Cycles' mean with solidstate drives ?!
[07:21:45] <Jymmm> Exactly what it says.
[07:22:02] <psha> that you'd better won't use it as swap partition ;)
[07:22:10] <Jymmm> or logging
[07:22:31] <Jymmm> or database
[07:24:15] <noick> or a Linux/EMC2 install ?
[07:26:13] <psha> for linux install you may use even half-dead usb sick
[07:26:23] <psha> question is in amount of tuning :)
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[07:32:54] <psha> depending on level of paranoia you may: use tmpfs for /tmp, /var/run, /var/tmp; use non-journaled FS; use slow-synced log partition; use most of ssd read-only; etc...
[07:33:33] <psha> it's just depends on your skills (desire) and voices in your head
[07:35:08] <noick> voice in my head just ordered one
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[07:38:38] <noick> gah, ok heres a dumbo question:
[07:38:56] <noick> this will give me wireless internets with this motherboard on linux ?
[07:38:56] <noick> http://www.mini-box.com/802-11-b-g-Wireless-Lan-PCI-E
[07:39:14] <noick> 802.11 tick
[07:39:16] <psha> it may kill latency
[07:39:22] <psha> but may not
[07:39:36] <noick> I can pull it out if need be
[07:39:37] <psha> no way to say it in advance (if someone else have not checked)
[07:39:49] <noick> my surrent machine is a PITA with no interent
[07:40:13] <psha> this mobo has nice on-board gigabit ethernet port
[07:40:46] <noick> yes, true - but where so I plug in the air ?
[07:40:59] <noick> its going to travel about some
[07:41:11] <psha> that's problem with wired network ;)
[07:41:22] <psha> but in return you'll get nice speed and reliabilty :)
[07:41:27] <noick> this is why shopping for PC's rubs me the wrong way sometimes:
[07:41:41] <noick> "miniiPCI express format (mini card)" / "Works with any board equipped with mini PCIe."
[07:41:55] <noick> aaaaaaand also:
[07:41:57] <noick> "Excellent for embedded projects with USB interface"
[07:42:07] <noick> "Host interface supports USB.2.0"
[07:42:46] <noick> so is it USB or mini-PCI ? - pic looks like miniPCI
[07:43:22] <noick> off topic I guess
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[07:43:43] <psha> minipci connector has 4(?) lanes for USB
[07:43:51] <psha> so it's internally USB but with minipcie connector
[07:43:57] <psha> pcie lanes are not used
[07:44:14] <noick> right, ok - this is stuff i dont know about (yet)
[07:45:59] <noick> so - I've got motherboard, RAM, SS-HD, 12v power supply (it'll run off the same AC-DC adaptor that'll run the drive logic carry on), internet thingy
[07:46:29] <noick> as for a case, I'm building my own ... screen, keyboard, mouse and whatnot dealt with
[07:47:07] <noick> in terms of the insides - what else is there to get a linux/EMC install up and going ?
[07:47:32] <psha> nothing - that's enought
[07:47:38] <noick> thought so
[07:47:40] <noick> sweet
[07:47:43] <psha> bare minimum is mobo, ram and hd
[07:47:50] <psha> everything else is optional
[07:47:53] <noick> hope you've got shares in the company ;)
[07:48:38] <psha> installation is done from usb stick - that's more reliable that burning cd
[07:48:42] <psha> and now i've to go :)
[07:48:44] <psha> good luck
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[07:48:49] <noick> cheers mate -
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[14:23:08] * Tom_itx stretches
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[14:33:49] <syyl> i
[14:35:19] <Jymmm> Hola!
[14:35:45] <syyl> ahoi :)
[14:36:06] <Tom_itx> here's to a 4 day weekend!
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[17:17:36] <andypugh> Well, with a smaller cut, my ballscrew machining went much better, and turned out rather well.
[17:18:12] <syyl> ah
[17:18:17] <syyl> wat did you use?
[17:18:23] <syyl> pcd?
[17:18:29] <syyl> or carbide
[17:18:59] <Tom_itx> unless it's a really good ball screw it's just case hardened
[17:19:14] <Tom_itx> once you get past that the going should be easier
[17:22:32] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: i said that yesterday
[17:22:43] <andypugh> I used CBN
[17:22:49] <Loetmichel> but he didn't listen i think
[17:23:06] <andypugh> And I am just starting to get through the hardening at 18mm dial on a 25mm dia screw
[17:23:45] <Loetmichel> that sounds right
[17:23:48] <andypugh> It's still very hard at 20mm (which is the register diameter)
[17:24:00] <Tom_itx> what's the target diameter?
[17:24:09] <Loetmichel> about 2-3mm are hardened, but measured from the bottom of the ball grooves
[17:24:17] <andypugh> You do get a lovely finish with hard turning, it looks like it has been ground.
[17:25:08] <andypugh> Now to see if the 19.05mm dia is soft enough to mill serrations in to.
[17:26:38] <syyl> should be no problem with a carbide endmill and a sturdy machine
[17:27:26] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs?pli=1&gsessionid=A7iGWIAonrW3OL-Euejhrg#5611819836865630514
[17:28:21] <andypugh> Yes, that is what I don't have. The mill is far from sturdy. In fact that is the reason I am doing the work, as part of a conversion of a real milling machine, rather than a cheap toy.
[17:28:32] <syyl> nice surface, at least in the hard part of the material
[17:28:56] <Loetmichel> andypugh: you CAN anneal the ends of the ballscrews to soften then, you know?
[17:29:44] <andypugh> You can just see the surface starting to not be quite as nice on the smaller (middle) diameter, where it is getting through the case.
[17:30:31] <Loetmichel> how did you clamp the spindle?
[17:30:50] <andypugh> Yes, I know (I am a metallurgist :-) But I don't want to soften the ball track. I might well end up softening the serrated part though.
[17:31:19] <andypugh> In the lathe, you mean?
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[17:31:36] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[17:31:39] <Loetmichel> how did you warrant that the bearing is concentric to the ball grooves?
[17:31:54] <andypugh> I did it between centres.
[17:32:16] <Loetmichel> and the ballscrew had predrilled center holes?
[17:32:27] <andypugh> No, you spotted the flaw in my plan :-)
[17:32:42] <andypugh> The centres are as good as the lathe and 3-jaw chuck at work.
[17:32:57] <Loetmichel> I meant: on a rolled ballscrew it isnd guaranteed that the outside of the screw is centric to the ball grooves
[17:33:17] <IchGuckLive> ej folks i aleays use Halfstep on bipolar today the HK driver with th TB6560HQ arived can i go for 1/8 with the bipolar 4Wirer steppers to ?
[17:33:21] <syyl> you could mill the seration on the lathe, with a dividing head on the bedslide and little improvisation
[17:33:39] <andypugh> It doesn't actually matter that much in this case. This is a stationary screw with a rotating nut in CNC mode.
[17:33:48] <Loetmichel> ah, ok
[17:34:05] <andypugh> The bearing and serrations are so I can retain manual operation.
[17:34:26] <syyl> forgett manual operation on a cnc :D
[17:34:33] <Loetmichel> i learned that the hard way: i have a 16*4mm ballscrew with one end 0,2mm out of center :-(
[17:34:52] <Loetmichel> bevcause of the chuck clamping on the outside of the Spindle
[17:34:52] <andypugh> This is the Z-screw, and I don't want to be writing a program just to drill a quick hole.
[17:35:05] <syyl> ah, no quill?
[17:35:09] <IchGuckLive> there is also the Backlash in the INI Loetmichel
[17:35:12] <andypugh> No, not on this machine.
[17:35:32] <IchGuckLive> so you can set this for forward backwart pricise operation
[17:35:35] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Sleeve and re-machine?
[17:36:02] <syyl> but, a electronic handwheel is also very nice for drilling :D
[17:36:26] <andypugh> syyl: I will probably have that too.
[17:36:30] <syyl> :)
[17:36:50] <IchGuckLive> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/270511192339_pendant_V1_parts.jpg
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[17:37:05] <IchGuckLive> this in case for a handweehl
[17:37:15] <syyl> only problem is, that you dont get any feedback from the handwheel...listen close to the cutter, or get shrapnel
[17:37:21] <syyl> learned it the hard way at work :D
[17:37:27] <andypugh> I think you could clock up to the bottom of the ball groove if you set up the Z axis to the spindle encoder of the lathe.
[17:37:33] <IchGuckLive> there is a handwheel 100ipR on ebay for 25Euros
[17:37:52] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: hmm?
[17:38:16] <IchGuckLive> http://cgi.ebay.de/Drehencoder-Handrad-Type-SM80-/19053534364
[17:39:06] <Connor> Umm.. That's in German?? and something about 90 days I think... no product..
[17:39:09] <IchGuckLive> this is to big for my low price HandGHold Pendant
[17:39:10] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i resolved the plroblem this way: i got some brass wire with diameter same as the balls, winded it around the ballscrew and clamped that in the chuck
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[17:39:41] <Loetmichel> this way i got the clamping on the inner diamater of the screq, wich is precision ground
[17:40:10] <Loetmichel> and the brass wire is about 0,01mm in diameter tolerance ;-)
[17:40:46] <Connor> IchGuckLive: I just got mounting my MPG and switches to make temp enclosure.. I'll be mounting the LCD today and putting it all together.
[17:40:48] <Connor> nice start.
[17:40:57] <Loetmichel> Connor: it wrtes: the offer was removed or is older than 90 days
[17:41:02] <Connor> You have eagle file for the rotarty switch PCB ?
[17:41:18] <Connor> Loetmichel: Yea. That's what I figured.
[17:41:24] <Connor> pretty standard ebay response..
[17:41:38] <Connor> didn't feel like running it through google translate.
[17:42:05] <IchGuckLive> Connor: its on the Datasheet
[17:42:07] <Loetmichel> http://cgi.ebay.de/Drehencoder-Handrad-Type-SM80-/190535343640?pt=Gartenbauwerkzeuge&hash=item2c5cca9e18
[17:42:11] <Loetmichel> this is the same one
[17:42:27] <IchGuckLive> there is also a eagle lib for this switches
[17:42:39] <Connor> I have code for the arduino and a simple python script for EMC for the DRO and buttons. I'm hardwiring the MPG
[17:43:01] <Connor> That the 80mm ? I have the same in 60mm
[17:43:10] * Loetmichel uses his silicone keyboard as a pendant
[17:43:11] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:43:21] <Connor> IchGuckLive: What data sheet?
[17:43:46] <IchGuckLive> MFG A is on Int2 and the B is on a Dig pin so if int accourd check the B if high CW if low CCW
[17:44:25] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Yea.. I tried that.. issue I had was the serial was too slow for rapid jogging..
[17:45:20] <Connor> IchGuckLive: and I meant a eagle file for the PCB you MADE for the switches.. nice looking setup.
[17:47:00] <IchGuckLive> yes but its only the positeniing 25mm in square
[17:47:22] <IchGuckLive> http://www.reichelt.de/Kurzhubtaster/TASTER-3FTL6/index.html?;ACTION=28;LA=3;ARTICLE=79697;GROUPID=3278;SID=13TaM7HX8AAAIAABDXV4Ua87770fe5f31a03aa256ba5acb126fb2
[17:47:32] <IchGuckLive> here is the datasheet
[17:48:54] <Connor> Huh?
[17:49:13] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Sorry.. I'm still not sure you understand what I'm asking.
[17:49:21] <Tom_itx> do you?
[17:50:03] <Connor> Tom_itx: I was asking about the PCB that he has the 2 Rotary switches mounted on, has two resistor networks and a dip socket in the middle.
[17:50:05] <IchGuckLive> the courser switch ?
[17:50:14] <IchGuckLive> Connor:
[17:50:36] <IchGuckLive> STUFENSCHALTER !
[17:50:41] <Connor> The ones that'll probably be used for XYZ selection and units multiplier
[17:50:48] <IchGuckLive> yes
[17:51:13] <IchGuckLive> its on i2c connected to the Arduiino
[17:51:28] <IchGuckLive> alll switches are on i2c via interrupt1
[17:51:50] <IchGuckLive> eatch pcb has its own PCF8574P
[17:52:23] <IchGuckLive> so int acours quick check 10ms witch switch is presst and take action
[17:52:24] <Connor> I used a resistor ladder and took them into Analog 1 and Analog 2
[17:52:43] <Connor> Then I used a Port Expander for all the other switches.
[17:52:52] <Connor> I2C port expander.
[17:53:06] <IchGuckLive> thats the pcf8574p
[17:53:27] <Connor> yea. I used a different chip, but same Idea.. I just didn't see the need for it on the rotary switches...
[17:53:31] <IchGuckLive> there is also one under the GLCD
[17:53:45] <IchGuckLive> so i only use 3 pins of the arduino
[17:54:10] <Connor> Right. I use 2 analogs, 2 more for the I2C, and the others are used to drive the GLCD on mine.
[17:54:27] <Connor> the MPG will be hardwired.. as will the E-Stop.
[17:54:55] <Connor> I'm using a Cat5 cable with jack on the machine side which will break it out to USB and the pins needed for the MPG and E-Stop
[17:55:14] <IchGuckLive> E-stop is checkt first within 5ms
[17:55:56] <IchGuckLive> all on the i2c
[17:55:56] <Connor> What happens if the Arduino locks up.. or the cable comes un-done or something ?
[17:56:26] <IchGuckLive> there is a E-stop on the mashine itself
[17:56:48] <IchGuckLive> there are now 12 e-stop in total
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[17:57:08] <Tom_itx> you must plan on crashing alot
[17:57:14] <Connor> I wanted mine to be truly failsafe... Arduino not in the mix on the Estop, and since I use NC for E-Stop, if it comes un-done, or cut or something.. trips.. also don't have to worry about if a wire comes loose.
[17:57:27] <IchGuckLive> i will go up to stop all the 14 CNC in the education room if one is presst
[17:57:58] <Connor> okay, Back in a bit, out to get lunch
[17:58:11] <IchGuckLive> by fore me
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[18:05:21] <syyl_> back in the machine shop
[18:12:31] <anonimasu> Tom_itx: great comment
[18:12:48] <anonimasu> Tom_itx: tho, I think the CE regulates that there have to be one that you can reach if you get stuck in the spindle
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[18:19:58] <Tom_itx> yeah, i pulled a guy out of a 20' vacuum mold machine once when he got his hand caught in a clamp and was headed for a 2000 deg oven
[18:20:17] <Tom_itx> he was kinda in a panic
[18:20:47] <Tom_itx> couldn't hear him screaming over the factory noise. i just happened to look up
[18:21:27] <Loetmichel> now he has tow times a year birthdayparty?
[18:21:32] <Loetmichel> two
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[18:32:05] <anonimasu> this is what protective laser curtains are for
[18:34:07] <syyl_> and full enclousure, etc...but sometimes that stuff has to be bypassed...
[18:34:45] <syyl_> we sometimes bypass the safety switch on the enlousure of our milling machines, if we got large pieces to machine
[18:34:54] <syyl_> or large quantities with low cycle times
[18:35:28] <syyl_> thats quite a potential for damage to personel
[18:43:56] <Loetmichel> anonimasu: you mean: with a laser curtain would TAHT not have happened? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2958
[18:44:06] <Loetmichel> (spioler: bloddy from here)
[18:44:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11127
[18:44:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11136
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[18:45:30] <Loetmichel> first pic is a xray of my thumb after a 2mm carbide mill bit @ 24kRPM got through.
[18:46:35] <Loetmichel> the last two are my thum lately after i tried tu cut a short pice of 20mm aluminium round stock in the bandsaw, holding it only with my fingers ;-)
[18:46:43] <Loetmichel> thumb...
[18:47:19] <Loetmichel> and every time the left thumb... poor boy... it gets all the damage ;-)
[18:48:32] <syyl_> no serious injuries in the last years while doing metalwork :P
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[20:28:00] <pcw_home> RIP Gil Scott Heron
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[20:58:50] <Jymmm> hey SWPadnos, slummin?
[20:59:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: or did you get new service?
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[22:22:24] <andypugh> Bead blasting a boring head? Sacrelige (and I think he has possibly ruined it) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190538447958
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[22:25:05] <noick> ello all
[22:25:27] <andypugh> Hi
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[22:27:29] <andypugh> Currently on the 4th attempt to cut this spline. It would be a lot better if I could arrange it so that the mating part could be tried for fit without taking the shaft off the machine.
[22:28:37] <andypugh> The problem is probably that it is tough steel and I am using a 6mm end mill protruding 30mm (otherwise it fouls the rotary axis chuck)
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[22:45:26] <FinboySlick> I'm having a bit of a mind bender trying to set up my X axis. I set home position at 0.0, travel from -130 to 130, home switch location at -130. When I tell emc to home X, it moves in the positive direction... It'll never touch the switch at -130 that way.
[22:45:49] <andypugh> Set your home search velocity to a negative value.
[22:46:36] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I see... Cute quirk.
[22:47:21] <andypugh> <gropes for a justification> It's a search velocity, not a search speed...
[22:48:33] <FinboySlick> No biggie. Just leads noobs like me to a bit of confusion. Could stepconf safely make that assumption (say, display a warning) when having a negative position for home switches?
[22:49:12] <FinboySlick> I'm very close to making chips now, pretty excited.
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[22:50:00] <andypugh> Aye, it might be a sensible thing for stepconf to guess at.
[22:54:24] <FinboySlick> Just so I don't have to mash the e-stop again, it'll start swinging positive after it homed at -130 to get to 0, right? It gave me quite a scare when it found the switch and then drove straight towards the end of the axis once it got there.
[22:56:06] <andypugh> I am not sure, you might need the latch velocity to be the opposite sign to the search velocity.
[22:56:39] <FinboySlick> I'll set everything real slow this time.
[22:58:51] <andypugh> Not the way I would have chosen to mount the ballscrew to machine the spline... https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs?pli=1&gsessionid=taAmhqph0ShY8Bf6OmrO0Q#5611904480713910226
[23:00:05] <Connor> needs a steady rest or something to keep it from wipping
[23:00:21] <andypugh> At 100 degrees per minute?
[23:00:31] <Connor> oh.
[23:00:33] <Connor> no.
[23:01:09] <andypugh> That's a rotary axis, I am milling a spline. (see the next pic)
[23:01:57] <andypugh> A tailstock would have been great, but nowhere to mount it, the rotary axis itself is twice as big as the milling "table"
[23:02:30] <andypugh> (Can't mount anything on the lathe bed, there are Y and X moves)
[23:03:23] <Tom_itx> i switched from my ssd to a hdd and now i get an error that linnux doesn't support mode4 on the parport
[23:03:38] <Tom_itx> plugged the ssd back in and it works fine
[23:03:49] <Tom_itx> epp selected in the bios
[23:04:31] <andypugh> Wierd.
[23:04:44] <andypugh> Booting from the same drive in both cases?
[23:04:45] <Tom_itx> i kinda thought so too
[23:04:50] <Tom_itx> no
[23:04:53] <Tom_itx> ssd and hdd
[23:05:01] <Tom_itx> i'm swapping the ssd out for a bit
[23:05:11] <Tom_itx> loaded the live cd on a fresh hdd
[23:05:26] <andypugh> I guess the OS installs are non-identical in some subtle eay.
[23:05:49] <Tom_itx> D525
[23:06:10] <Tom_itx> i'm running an update
[23:10:18] <Tom_itx> was 2f8 or 3f8 the default parport0?
[23:10:21] <Tom_itx> i forget
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[23:11:34] <andypugh> Neither sound right
[23:11:52] <Tom_itx> 2f8 38f 3bc i think were the first 3
[23:12:40] <Tom_itx> err 278 378
[23:12:48] <Tom_itx> sound better?
[23:13:51] <andypugh> cat /proc/ioports
[23:13:59] <andypugh> 0378
[23:14:03] <Tom_itx> i think 378 was the first one
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[23:26:23] <andypugh> Tom_itx: You know you can access the parports as numbers 0, 1, 2 etc? the driver interprets low integers as an index, not an address.
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[23:27:07] <Tom_itx> i was just gonna check the bios if i couldn't figure it out
[23:27:55] <Tom_itx> it's kinda odd
[23:27:59] <Tom_itx> they're both sata drives
[23:30:26] <Tom_itx> it loaded ok that time
[23:35:06] <andypugh> Time to sleep.
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[23:36:16] * JT-Shop just got back driving 310 miles for a pork chop
[23:36:27] <Tom_itx> hope it was a good one
[23:36:36] <Tom_itx> just had a plate full of ribs
[23:37:46] <Jymmm> Just finished making the red cabbage marinated salad
[23:37:46] <JT-Shop> mmmm, very good... now to debug the bike
[23:38:08] <syyl> damn
[23:38:10] <syyl> getting hungry
[23:38:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: debug? like the windshield I hope
[23:41:45] <JT-Shop> yep, before the magnetass switch gets tripped
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