#emc | Logs for 2011-05-27

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[00:23:39] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, weather messin with your connection?
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[00:24:16] <Tom_itx> gonna attempt a 'push on' push off' button. we'll see how far i get
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[00:43:07] <l0st1nsp4c3> i'm a little confused i have the same settings on my machine with my old motors and controllers (except for microstepping) with my new g540 i understand you put 10 in microstepping...but somehow emc things it's travelled 2 the length could this be speed related?
[00:57:19] <awallin> Tom_itx: this? http://www.anderswallin.net/2010/10/axis-with-pyvcp-pauseresume-button/
[00:59:45] <Tom_itx> a real button
[01:01:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> anybody got any ideas?
[01:02:19] <l0st1nsp4c3> i changed motors and controller (motors are same 200steps/rev 1.8degree) only thing different is the g540 which from what i understand is suppose to be 10microsteps (vs my crappy 1 on old controller)
[01:09:27] <grommit> 10st1nsp4c3: You are saying it travels further than it should?
[01:12:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> no
[01:12:09] <l0st1nsp4c3> half of what it should
[01:12:27] <grommit> Do you have SCALE set correctly in your hal file?
[01:12:55] <l0st1nsp4c3> grommit hum not sure i used stepconf wizzard
[01:13:03] <l0st1nsp4c3> let me fire up the pc
[01:13:48] <grommit> ini file, not hal
[01:13:56] <l0st1nsp4c3> weird tho worked fine with old controllers and motors
[01:14:03] <l0st1nsp4c3> thus why i thought maybe the job speed
[01:14:38] <l0st1nsp4c3> thus emc thinks it's going faster then it could actually go
[01:14:43] <l0st1nsp4c3> brb gonna check scale
[01:16:29] <l0st1nsp4c3> scals is set to 20,000.0
[01:16:36] <l0st1nsp4c3> errr
[01:17:13] <l0st1nsp4c3> scale is steps * microsteps * thread per inch right?
[01:17:58] <grommit> Here I think: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html
[01:18:29] <grommit> I think your scale should be 40,000?
[01:19:07] <l0st1nsp4c3> well it's a 1.8degree motor so 200steps per rev
[01:19:18] <l0st1nsp4c3> it's a 10 tpi rod so ten turns per inch
[01:19:30] <l0st1nsp4c3> and supposedly the g540 is a 10microstep
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[01:24:13] <l0st1nsp4c3> mmmm
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[01:26:56] <l0st1nsp4c3> can max speeds and accel mess with distances travelled since it's possible i thinks it's going faster then it can
[01:30:01] <grommit> I don't think so.
[01:31:26] <l0st1nsp4c3> mmm
[01:31:57] <grommit> You have a 10 tpi screw which is .1in pitch (one rev, .1 in). You have 200 steps per rev, so .1/200= 0.0005 in per step. 1/.0005 = 2000 steps per in. This is your SCALE, no?
[01:32:21] <l0st1nsp4c3> no
[01:32:26] <l0st1nsp4c3> scale is 20,000
[01:32:36] <l0st1nsp4c3> since g540 is supposed to be 10 microsteps
[01:33:27] <l0st1nsp4c3> so it should be 2000 like u said * 10 for the microsteps no?
[01:38:22] <grommit> Right, it should be .1/2000... and SCALE should be 20000. So are you sure microstepping is on?
[01:38:35] <grommit> not familiar with 540
[01:38:45] <l0st1nsp4c3> according to what i read
[01:38:52] <elmo40> how do you step smaller then 1.8deg/step?
[01:38:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> by default it's 10 microsteps
[01:39:13] <l0st1nsp4c3> and the controller by itself will chose how to microstep ornot
[01:39:30] <l0st1nsp4c3> but still want the 10 microsteps to be sent and it decides if it half steps full steps etc etc
[01:40:03] <Jymmm> Leadscrew_tpi * motor_spr + microstepping 10 * 200 *10
[01:40:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> depending on speed
[01:40:20] <Jymmm> Leadscrew_tpi * motor_spr * microstepping 10 * 200 *10
[01:40:45] <l0st1nsp4c3> so if i have a 10tpi and 1.8degg(200steps/rev) and a 10microstep my scale is indeed correct
[01:40:48] <Jymmm> and * for any gear ratios as well
[01:41:17] <l0st1nsp4c3> 1:1
[01:41:22] <l0st1nsp4c3> lovejoy style couplings =)
[01:42:08] <Jymmm> try 10000 and see if that works
[01:42:24] <l0st1nsp4c3> that would mean microsteps would be 5
[01:42:27] <Jymmm> I might be forgetting something here
[01:42:36] <Jymmm> just try it for shits and giggles
[01:42:44] <elmo40> play with it. if it make it work then it made it work.
[01:43:01] <Jymmm> and place a ruler on the machien and command it to move 1"
[01:43:33] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[01:43:41] <elmo40> lol nothing.
[01:43:47] <Jymmm> and then another inch, and then another.
[01:44:12] <elmo40> or... do you have it set up for mm but giving an inch command?
[01:44:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> setup in Inch
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[01:44:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> the only part of the equation i can see different from the previous configuration is the microstepping
[01:44:55] <l0st1nsp4c3> but like you said at this point
[01:45:01] <l0st1nsp4c3> might as well just try and see what makes it tick
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[01:45:44] <grommit> How are you generating pulses?
[01:47:17] <grommit> Also, what drivers were you using before 540?
[01:47:38] <l0st1nsp4c3> some cheap mechatronics very very slowwww
[01:48:12] <l0st1nsp4c3> as for pulses emc is generating them and sending them via parport...no in between fpga is that what u mean?
[01:48:21] <grommit> yeah
[01:49:04] <grommit> what is your base period and what are your stepgen parameters? Could you be losing pulses?
[01:49:11] <l0st1nsp4c3> let me reboot check bios see if i'm in epp
[01:49:23] <l0st1nsp4c3> grommit it's possible let me reboot and check a few things
[01:55:39] <l0st1nsp4c3> ok
[01:57:27] <l0st1nsp4c3> grommit on my other controllers i had to setup step time step space direction hold and etc etc to make no steps loss but te g540 is prebuild in emc and i don't set anything for it
[01:58:04] <l0st1nsp4c3> is that what you mean or?
[01:58:18] <grommit> Well, you mean that Stepconf Wizard set them?
[01:58:27] <l0st1nsp4c3> yes
[01:58:42] <l0st1nsp4c3> by selecting the g540 driver
[01:58:50] <grommit> understood
[02:00:11] <grommit> out of curiousity (my own - on a related front). Can you post stepgen.0.steplen and stepgen.0.stepspace, stepgen.0.dirhold and stepgen.0.dirsetup values from hal file?
[02:00:33] <l0st1nsp4c3> http://www.onel.se/all_files/gecko_g540.html <-- similar to mine except for some inversions and MM instead of inch
[02:00:38] <l0st1nsp4c3> gimme a sec for that
[02:02:22] <l0st1nsp4c3> hum
[02:02:23] <l0st1nsp4c3> weird
[02:03:05] <l0st1nsp4c3> 1 then 0 then 15200 then 15200
[02:03:41] <grommit> Thnxs
[02:04:10] <l0st1nsp4c3> ithink i'm gonna kill the config and remake it see if something went haywire
[02:04:28] <grommit> Did you use 15200 for base jitter?
[02:04:44] <grommit> sorry, max jitter, I mean
[02:05:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> max jitter is in the 15000 yes
[02:05:17] <elmo40> l0st1nsp4c3: did you get it working?
[02:05:27] <grommit> interesting
[02:05:38] <grommit> (not in relation to your issue, but in mine)...
[02:06:22] <l0st1nsp4c3> elmo40: i'm gonna recreate the config from scratch and see if that helps if not
[02:06:25] <grommit> elmo40: no, I have been distracting him....
[02:06:29] <l0st1nsp4c3> i'm gonna start messing around with stuff
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[02:06:43] <l0st1nsp4c3> grommit: why what's your base jitter?
[02:06:49] <elmo40> dammit grommit, let him work on it ;)
[02:07:22] <grommit> It is a very long story...
[02:07:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
[02:07:31] <l0st1nsp4c3> grommit: do tell!
[02:08:51] <grommit> I will just caution you to NOT read the documentation on stepgen.N.steplen and dirhold, etc. 'Cause it appears say something completely different than working configs seem to indicate.
[02:09:45] <Tom_itx> steplen works for me
[02:09:56] <elmo40> l0st1nsp4c3: why didn't you just change the 20,000 to 10,000 and test it out?
[02:10:04] <grommit> in what way does it work?
[02:10:16] <grommit> what value to do you have for steplen?
[02:10:21] <grommit> a 1?
[02:10:29] <Tom_itx> it sets the pulsewideth for the step
[02:11:24] <Tom_itx> yours is set to 1?
[02:12:01] <Tom_itx> STEPLEN = 10000
[02:12:05] <grommit> No, but 4 configs that I have now looked at have it set to 1, even for a Type0 stepgen. And they all work - mine doesn't
[02:12:05] <Tom_itx> STEPSPACE = 40000
[02:12:46] <Tom_itx> and in the hal file it's mapped to the [AXIS_x]STEPLEN
[02:13:23] <grommit> That is in nanoseconds. That is a huge steplen (10,000).
[02:14:01] <grommit> BTW, that is just the "on time".
[02:14:07] <Tom_itx> that's not my current file btw
[02:14:09] <Tom_itx> it was handy
[02:14:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> elmo40: I will after I redo config and see it still doesn't work lol
[02:14:36] <Tom_itx> default settings from the mesa file
[02:15:26] <l0st1nsp4c3> elmo40: i understand the thinker until it works methodology but i'm a firm believer in the understand why and what went wrong lol
[02:17:39] <grommit> I tried setting various steplen and stepspace setting today and they have no effect (on my system anyway). Then I started looking at some other configs and I see that they don't seem to use steplen and stepspace as defined in the docs for Type0 stepgen.
[02:18:22] <grommit> They have stepgen=1 and stepspace=0 ( as does 10st1nsp4c3's config from Stepconf Wizard).
[02:18:45] <grommit> And they use the jitter in the dirhold and dirsetup fields.
[02:19:44] <elmo40> l0st1nsp4c3: when you tinker to get it working then you go backwards and see why the numbers don't 'add up'.
[02:19:49] <elmo40> gives you a starting point
[02:21:25] <grommit> I dunno. I started using the tinker method and have now pulled out every one of my hairs. I am now going back to the beginning. So I am kinda leaning towards 10st1nsp4c3's methodology (in spite of his name ;-)
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[02:23:37] <Tom_itx> grommit, i've had my share of problems gettin mine goin too
[02:24:06] <AC-130U> hmm
[02:24:44] <AC-130U> for a complete beginner, what would be a good way to get my foot in the door with regard to machining jobs? (other than schooling, which is what im trying to secure, but failingthat...)
[02:25:08] <Valen> as in getting paid work for a machine you own, or working in a machine shop?
[02:25:37] <AC-130U> preferably the latter for now as i dont have my own machine at this time
[02:26:02] <Valen> turn up and offer to sweep floors probably a good place to start
[02:26:03] <cradek> get hired sweeping chips, show you're aa good worker, observe everything and learn
[02:26:11] <Valen> lol snap
[02:26:26] <Valen> sweeping is actually a big job at most machine shops
[02:26:27] <AC-130U> hmm
[02:26:30] <AC-130U> yeah
[02:26:33] <grommit> true enough
[02:26:35] <cradek> go to work every scheduled day on time
[02:26:44] <AC-130U> sweep not only the floors, but also the machines (when they are not being used)
[02:26:46] <AC-130U> gotcha
[02:26:48] <cradek> that alone will put you in the top 10%
[02:26:50] <Valen> i knew a guy who knew a guy, took him 4 hours to sweep the shop
[02:27:04] <Valen> bos liked him because it took the last guy 8
[02:27:11] <AC-130U> hrm
[02:27:34] <grommit> It's tough to start at the top ;-)
[02:27:41] <Tom_itx> i got a kid a job just like that. he started with the floors and ended up being one of their best machinists
[02:27:44] <AC-130U> well, i aint starting at the top, i know that much
[02:28:03] <Valen> tell them what you want to be too
[02:28:13] <AC-130U> *nod*
[02:28:22] <Valen> say your interested in everything, show them anything you have made/learnt
[02:28:40] <AC-130U> i know i want to start with manual machining/turning... that way i can have a strong foundation for cnc machining
[02:28:56] <cradek> that sure does help
[02:29:06] <AC-130U> hell, i might even throw in OJT with tooling u at that job, see what they say
[02:29:37] <Valen> you could also look into apprenticeships
[02:29:40] <AC-130U> "i wouldnt mind sweeping floors and cleaning machines when they are not in use... and if you need an extra man on the machine, I'm willing to learn on the job"
[02:29:50] <Valen> though they usually pay *shit*
[02:29:54] <AC-130U> yeah
[02:30:07] <AC-130U> right now im hoping i can find a shop that runs 2 shifts
[02:30:24] <AC-130U> first shift is my normal electronics job, then 2nd would be atht emachine shop
[02:30:27] <AC-130U> bbiab
[02:31:14] <Tom_itx> they're not gonna put you on 2nd as a beginner
[02:31:33] <l0st1nsp4c3> define electronics job?
[02:33:31] <elmo40> over the years I have learnt that you don't need a background in 'manual' machining to do cnc.
[02:33:46] <elmo40> cnc pushes the envelope further then manual will ever do.
[02:33:55] <elmo40> speeds and feeds are totally different.
[02:33:57] <Tom_itx> depend whether you wanna be a button pusher or a machinist
[02:34:11] <elmo40> Tom_itx: not my point
[02:34:17] <elmo40> I mean the entire process
[02:34:22] <Tom_itx> somewhat
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[02:34:30] <elmo40> a cnc part is only as good as the setup, same with manual
[02:34:56] <Tom_itx> most cnc shops will have both
[02:35:21] <Tom_itx> i agree you can do more on a cnc
[02:36:50] <grommit> You don't necessarily NEED a background in manual machining, but it sure does help in many situations.
[02:37:43] <Valen> I reckon its mainly training your ear that manual machining helps with
[02:38:26] <Valen> its why i hate music over machining clips on youtube
[02:38:34] <drray> It seems to me that if you can't cut metal by hand wihtout makeing mistakes then you'll be no good at cnc.
[02:38:35] <Valen> you cant hear how well its cutting
[02:39:03] <Valen> cutting stuff by hand without mistakes and by CnC are really different things
[02:39:22] <Valen> your not going to gouge a part by hand unless your really daft
[02:39:23] <grommit> music over machinging clips? You mean like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0re79zEX5A
[02:39:26] <elmo40> drray: not true.
[02:39:27] <Tom_itx> alot of cnc's use alot higher spindle speeds which mess with the 'tone' of machining
[02:39:53] <elmo40> you have no feel in cnc, other then that speeds and feeds are trial-by-ear (and broken tooling ;) )
[02:40:06] <Valen> grommit: my mill cant do that ;-> servo machine
[02:40:14] <grommit> :-)
[02:40:29] <Valen> elmo40: you can still hear things like rubbing vs cutting and chatter etc though
[02:40:58] <Valen> which gives you indications on feeds and speeds
[02:41:26] <Valen> grommit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfsBlcH4ao&NR=1 lol
[02:41:44] <Tom_itx> not always, especially if you're forced to use long tooling
[02:42:11] <grommit> Love it.
[02:42:31] <Tom_itx> we cut out the nose on a blower once using some 8 and 10" long cutters
[02:42:48] <Valen> nothings perfect obviously
[02:42:56] <Tom_itx> yup
[02:43:01] <Valen> sometimes the only way is breaking tools :-<
[02:43:21] <Tom_itx> we did the inside first
[02:43:24] <elmo40> Tom_itx: how long was the flute? 6" should it have been done with an extended holder and inserts?
[02:43:34] <grommit> The program that plays Daisy (cradek wrote it), is pretty sophisticated. I still need to spend some time to play some other tunes in it. Perhaps I will try Mario :-)
[02:44:07] <Valen> I saw one once that played the music whilst actually making a cut i think
[02:44:29] <grommit> that would be a trick!
[02:44:32] <Tom_itx> then filled it with ballast to do the outside
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[02:52:51] <grommit> 10st1nsp4c3: any progress?
[02:55:40] <l0st1nsp4c3> well
[02:56:46] <l0st1nsp4c3> sorta
[02:56:52] <grommit> do tell
[03:00:41] <l0st1nsp4c3> well
[03:00:57] <l0st1nsp4c3> 10,000 scale obviously fails it's even less distance travelled
[03:01:08] <l0st1nsp4c3> 40,000 seems to work but....that of course means something is f00bared
[03:01:29] <l0st1nsp4c3> making me questions everyones setting of 10.0 microsteps in emc2 for their g540
[03:02:30] <grommit> and you are not losing half your steps with a period that is too small?
[03:02:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> i have not yet tested if steps are lost or not
[03:03:05] <l0st1nsp4c3> i wanted to see which scale would get me from one end of the axis to the other
[03:03:16] <l0st1nsp4c3> 40,000 gets me the full 15,5 inches
[03:04:30] <l0st1nsp4c3> so something is wrong with the microsteps
[03:05:12] <grommit> Something is wrong, it may or may having anything to do with microsteps.
[03:05:40] <grommit> Did you run the latency test on your system?
[03:06:30] <l0st1nsp4c3> yup
[03:06:41] <grommit> what value did you get?
[03:06:48] <grommit> for max jitter, I mean
[03:07:07] <l0st1nsp4c3> was in the 15000 if i remember correctly
[03:07:52] <grommit> And what do you have BASE_PERIOD set to in .ini file?
[03:08:31] <l0st1nsp4c3> good question
[03:11:07] <l0st1nsp4c3> 25,000
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[03:31:49] <grommit> Seems reasonable. Are you 100% sure of your leadscrew pitch?
[03:32:12] <grommit> Just grasping at straws :-)
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[03:34:20] <l0st1nsp4c3> yes
[03:34:22] <l0st1nsp4c3> 10tpi
[03:34:24] <l0st1nsp4c3> like i said
[03:34:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> when i was using the same machine
[03:34:36] <l0st1nsp4c3> with mechatronics controllers and cheap motors
[03:34:53] <l0st1nsp4c3> without calculating backlash i could do 1inch motions very well
[03:35:18] <l0st1nsp4c3> motors were 1.8deg and new motors are 1.8deg so 200steps/rev so that didn't change
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[03:35:27] <grommit> perhaps the gecko is 5 microstepping.
[03:35:29] <l0st1nsp4c3> what changed is the gecko g540 is a 10-microstep drivers
[03:35:36] <l0st1nsp4c3> grommit that's what I was thinking
[03:35:46] <l0st1nsp4c3> http://www.geckodrive.com/g540-p-39.html
[03:36:07] <grommit> You can call Gecko support and talk with Mariss. It will be incredibly enlightening. He is very helpful.
[03:37:37] <l0st1nsp4c3> marcus?
[03:39:12] <grommit> Well, I talked to Mariss today, but I have email Marcus...
[03:39:23] <grommit> he is also helpful
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[03:41:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> interesting
[03:47:25] <l0st1nsp4c3> well i give up for tonite
[03:48:11] <AC-130U> welp. no overtime work for me tomorrow... lil plumbing fuckup with the new tub, called the landlord and theyre having someone come out look at it first thing inthe am
[03:48:21] <AC-130U> after that, im looking for a 2nd job in a machine shop
[03:49:07] <l0st1nsp4c3> AC-130U: u said u had a job in electronics?
[03:49:14] <AC-130U> yeah i do
[03:49:20] <l0st1nsp4c3> what do u do?
[03:49:47] <AC-130U> basically everything: assembly, testing, repair, automated optical inspection
[03:50:09] <AC-130U> i work with mainly through hole but when i repair i work with SMT and throughhole
[03:50:13] <l0st1nsp4c3> assembly?? soldering?? hot air rework?? wave soldering??
[03:50:48] <l0st1nsp4c3> kk
[03:50:56] <l0st1nsp4c3> what company do u work for?
[03:51:06] <AC-130U> precision assembly, in orem UT
[03:51:23] <AC-130U> i use the wave solder machine from time to time... sometimes i hand solder when i assemble
[03:51:41] <AC-130U> those boards that call for selective soldering on the selective-solder machine, are the ones i hand solder
[03:51:57] <AC-130U> imma go zone out with the wife
[03:52:35] <l0st1nsp4c3> have fun =)
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[04:01:47] <l0st1nsp4c3> well guys thanks for your input
[04:02:01] <l0st1nsp4c3> i will try to figure out wth is going on later
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[06:51:02] <Loetmichel> moin
[06:51:34] <Gensor> huh
[06:55:55] <Gensor> hello
[07:00:22] <mrsunshine_> hmm eat then try and get the lathe to its bench
[07:00:25] <mrsunshine_> gonna be interesting
[07:01:21] * mrsunshine_ needs a realy "nerdy" show to watch, that is not like mythbusters, prototype this etc but more in depth stuff of how they build etc =)
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[07:11:47] <Gensor> PCW: Thanks!
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[07:23:48] <Loetmichel> [09:00:05] <mrsunshine_> hmm eat then try and get the lathe to its bench <- eat some power meal, get your arms around the lathe, LIFT, place it on the bench. Problem? No Problem! ;-)
[07:24:30] * Loetmichel got his lathe used out of a cnc forum.
[07:25:04] <Loetmichel> got to the seller. He asked: "How to get it from the basement to your car?"
[07:25:47] <mrsunshine_> dont know about you but i do not lift 200kg of steel at a off center location of my body
[07:25:53] <mrsunshine_> hell i cant even lift that in deadlifts =)
[07:25:54] <Loetmichel> <- gripped the lathe frirmly, lifted it-> "would you be so kind to open the basement door?"
[07:26:10] <mrsunshine_> not built like a forklift :P
[07:26:11] <Loetmichel> the face of him was like .oO
[07:26:26] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[07:26:38] <Loetmichel> my lathe is only about 70kg
[07:27:05] <mrsunshine_> 70kg i could just lift up =)
[07:27:19] <mrsunshine_> hell just the foot to this one thats on the floor is 100kg+ =)
[07:27:38] <mrsunshine_> atleast feels like it :P
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[07:33:39] <archivist> only ever lift one end at a time
[07:34:45] <archivist> and use a lever now max weight can reduce to 20kgs, just need more operations to move
[07:35:35] <archivist> and remove off centre high up weight if you can
[07:36:52] <mrsunshine_> archivist, ye im gonna go with the pallets like you said yesterday =)
[07:37:06] <mrsunshine_> archivist, have to disconnect the motor for that :/
[07:37:17] <mrsunshine_> no biggie realy but =)
[07:38:28] <archivist> having planks of wood around are very useful too
[07:50:01] <mrsunshine_> oh well, time to hit the chamber
[07:50:03] <mrsunshine_> bbl =)
[07:58:03] <Loetmichel> mrsunshine_: this is my new/used lathe: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11462
[07:58:04] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[07:58:36] <Loetmichel> (right next to my miniature CNC mill: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11492
[07:59:11] <Loetmichel> (and my other machinery stuff: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11465 )
[08:04:10] <archivist> shelf support in the way fail :)
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[08:40:00] <Loetmichel> archivist: nothing a angle grinder with cutting wheel cant fix ;-)
[08:41:00] <Loetmichel> the shelves are for .5 ton per shelve element, so the steel tubes are neccesary for support
[08:41:42] <Loetmichel> and if you look how much mess ther is in it: better noct cutt the cvertical beams ;-)
[08:42:14] <archivist> I do understand the too much stuff error too
[08:42:31] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8764
[08:42:43] <archivist> need more sheds :)
[08:43:00] <Loetmichel> that is in my Flat, not in the shed...
[08:43:36] <Loetmichel> i have no (usable) basement, just the 12 square meters room beside my kitchen ;-)
[08:44:09] <Loetmichel> ask my wife about noise from the machinery ;-)
[08:44:56] <archivist> I was looking at door alignment in the front bedroom, something to do with the 40 boxes of manuals in front I think
[08:45:21] <Loetmichel> hihi
[08:45:27] <archivist> each box os about 12kgs
[08:45:33] <archivist> is
[08:45:39] <Loetmichel> ask me about it.
[08:48:40] <Loetmichel> last time i moved (from wuppertal/germany to Offenbach/germany) i had a 7,5 ton Truck full to the ceiling AND 12 tours with my opel Omega caravan car
[08:49:22] <Loetmichel> that were abput 52 boxes 60cm*45xm*35cm full with stuff from my workshop alone ;-)
[08:49:35] <Loetmichel> about
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[08:51:48] <archivist> moving is not an option for me unless I get rich
[08:52:52] <Loetmichel> had to move: wife got a no job in different spot of germany
[08:53:03] <Loetmichel> s/no/new
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[09:18:07] <mrsunshine_> so the spindle disassembled, the front bearing was worn, 0.7mm give or take as i did it with a caliper and couldnt get into the cavity
[09:18:12] <mrsunshine_> so, new bearing needed i guess
[09:19:00] <mrsunshine_> what is the tolerances needed off bronz/brass bearing ?
[09:19:17] <mrsunshine_> that is, how much does it have to have in clearance not to bound if it heats up
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[09:49:30] <archivist> depends on expansion ratios of spindle and housing, also is the spindle worn does it need grinding before bearing are made to fit
[09:50:50] <archivist> a google of "precision running fit" shout get you somewhere
[09:51:01] <archivist> should
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[11:21:56] <mrsunshine_> archivist, hmm, looks like it has taken a beating atleast, but its round :P
[11:21:58] <mrsunshine_> the spindle axle
[11:26:21] <jthornton> got a photo of that beast?
[11:27:23] <mrsunshine_> the lathe or the spindle? :)
[11:27:48] <jthornton> yes
[11:28:19] <mrsunshine_> on both then i guess :P
[11:28:35] <mrsunshine_> can take some later today when i get down into the basement again =)
[11:29:00] <jthornton> ok
[11:29:28] <mrsunshine_> hate it that i need a mill to build a mill, and i need a lathe to build a lathe
[11:29:31] <mrsunshine_> or rebuild a lathe :P
[11:29:38] <mrsunshine_> stupid chicken and egg every time :P
[11:31:13] <mrsunshine_> hmm, axial roller bearings should be better then ball axial bearings for a lathe right? :)
[11:32:03] <jthornton> I believe tapered bearings are used in spindles
[11:33:31] <mrsunshine_> jthornton, well they have two bronz bushings as actual bearings, then a axial bearing at the end that is pulled towards a piece on the headstock or what it is called to get the axial play eliminated
[11:34:21] <mrsunshine_> best would be to put a boring bar there, and do indents for tapered bearings or similiar insted of going with new bronz bushes, atleast alot easier to change them later :P
[11:34:43] <mrsunshine_> and get my hands on, got a friend who work at a cnc industry and he can make me new bushings atleast =)
[11:34:44] <jthornton> are the plain bearings worn out?
[11:35:29] <mrsunshine_> jthornton, the bronz bearing was worn so the axle was about 0.7 - 1mm off center to the back :P
[11:35:56] <mrsunshine_> there is no plain bearings in it atm more then the axial one that is full of dirt :P
[11:36:51] <jthornton> sounds like time for new bronze bearings
[11:37:41] <mrsunshine_> yes, its the one im going to change, but then i dont know how exact the actual spindle axle has to be, if i need to regrind it to get smooth and good surfaces
[11:37:48] <mrsunshine_> the front one looks a bit torn up =)
[11:37:56] <MarkusBec> http://bambuser.com/channel/MarkusBec/broadcast/1691758
[11:40:07] <mrsunshine_> haha, a cnc cam ? :)
[11:40:13] <jthornton> I would guess you could not find the proper sized roller bearing of any kind to fit where a bronze bearing was
[11:40:30] <mrsunshine_> JT-Shop, nah the walls is just about 5mm thick
[11:40:36] <mrsunshine_> of the bearing
[11:44:17] <mrsunshine_> looks like they have been running the lathe without oil anywhere for a long long time :P
[11:45:28] <mrsunshine_> oh well, time to hit the shower and go to my mothers for a while =)
[11:46:24] <MarkusBec> mrsunshine_, first person milling
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[13:26:46] <skunkworks> tgif
[13:28:49] <alex_joni> it's weekend not friday :)
[13:29:16] <alex_joni> at least overe here
[13:29:27] <Valen> alex_joni: kiwi?
[13:29:41] <alex_joni> Valen: nope, europe
[13:29:46] <Valen> sydney here
[13:29:55] <Valen> still friday for half an hour
[13:29:56] <alex_joni> I think I remember that
[13:30:04] <alex_joni> it's 4:30 pm here
[13:31:11] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog-files/photography/01306502100/IMG_3838.JPG
[13:33:22] <Valen> 4:30pm on sat?
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[15:16:10] <grommit> alex_joni: Thanks for info on steplen and stepspace you posted the other day. I just saw it in the archive.
[15:23:25] <skunkworks> grommit: did you get it staitened out?
[15:23:54] <grommit> Not yet, but just need some more time with it.
[15:24:34] <grommit> One thing I am a bit baffled about it that I am getting realtime errors when I set my base period to something that should be completely reasonable for this machine.
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[15:25:36] <grommit> I have three threads, base, servo and a third for my charge pump. The charge pump thread is running at 125000 and I am wondering if this is causing me to get realtime errors (the addition of another thread)?
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[15:27:46] <skunkworks> I don't knwo
[15:28:20] <grommit> What are you working on now that the K&T is running flawlessly ;-)
[15:28:37] * Tom_itx takes grommit's threads and gives him some rope
[15:29:05] <skunkworks> grommit: yard work... :)
[15:29:10] <grommit> advice would be worth more than rope at the moment :-)
[15:29:21] <Tom_itx> yeah just came in from weeding the garden
[15:29:36] <grommit> it's been to wet for yard work here. Unless building an ark is considered yard work
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[15:32:20] <skunkworks> In MI?
[15:32:24] <grommit> yeah
[15:32:40] <grommit> rain, rain, and more rain. and more rain after that.
[15:32:45] <skunkworks> we had a small tornado go though lacrosse last week (WI)
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[15:32:56] <grommit> exciting!
[15:32:58] <grommit> yikes
[15:33:00] <skunkworks> took some roofs off of buildings
[15:33:05] <skunkworks> no one hurt
[15:33:32] <grommit> Tornados suck. And blow.
[15:34:30] <skunkworks> grommit: have a probe I need to get hooked into emc2
[15:34:47] <skunkworks> be nice to be able to find edges of things automagically
[15:35:20] <grommit> What kind of probe? I would LOVE to find edge autom...
[15:36:05] <skunkworks> I think it is a renishaw knock off.. but seems to be built well http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/probe/DSCF1507%5b1%5d.jpg
[15:36:11] <grommit> I am terrible (at repeatability) with wiggler or an led one I have.
[15:36:30] <grommit> Wow, cool. Where did you find that?
[15:37:02] <skunkworks> With a bunch of 1-2 offs on the k&t - I have been having good luck using a dowel and the jog wheel. within a .001 or so
[15:37:06] <skunkworks> ebay
[15:37:13] <grommit> I think that is bigger than my whole spindle though :-(
[15:37:21] <skunkworks> it was mounted in a 50 taper..
[15:38:21] <skunkworks> *1/2 dowel pin
[15:38:47] <grommit> How do you use a dowel pin?
[15:39:09] <grommit> electrical contact?
[15:39:33] <skunkworks> for z - jog it in untill the dowel doesn't roll under. slowly jog it back out .001 at a time until the dowel pin slips under.
[15:39:52] <grommit> and for side?
[15:40:06] <skunkworks> similar for edge. I don't remember who I saw doing that - either cradek or jmk
[15:40:15] <grommit> interesting
[15:40:30] <skunkworks> same thing - you just have to have enough room or spin the mill so you are sure to touch a flute
[15:41:21] <grommit> So you touch off for each tool?
[15:41:23] <skunkworks> I mean spin by hand
[15:41:42] <skunkworks> I have been mostly - because I have not cataloged them yet..
[15:41:50] <skunkworks> too much fun milling things :)
[15:41:50] <grommit> i see
[15:42:06] <grommit> yeah there is always that tradeoff on what to spend time on...
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[15:43:45] <skunkworks> exactly
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[16:04:09] <skunkworks> grommit: just because your latency is xxxxxx - it doesn't mean that you can run your base thread that low. It depends on how much 'stuff' is running in all of your threads. (the way I understand it anyways)
[16:05:14] <SSN-21> crap. all the machine shops are closed today
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[16:05:55] <AC-130U> most businesses are closed on fri here in utah. suckage.
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[16:10:51] <grommit> skunkworks, I agree, but given a max jitter of lt 11,000, I ought to be able to run a base thread of, say, 25,000. The lowest I can go is 30,000 which seems too high to me.
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[16:47:34] <tom3p> the emc2 nurbs branch by aros robo is neat, they use a chinese brsk stroke font to show off the nurbs http://youtu.be/EwfhjVV7D7Q
[16:49:10] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:52:27] <tom3p> they use a different scara kins art_scarakins.c by author sagar behere now studying in Stockholm at KTH uni
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[16:58:18] <tom3p> ara robot nurb series ini files have new entry MAX_JERK
[16:59:05] <tom3p> the 4 joints that allign to xyza are all LINEAR, yet are a SCARA robot
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[17:04:50] <tom3p> interesting their ini file has separate stanzas [AXIS_n] and [JOINT_n]
[17:07:32] <psha> tom3p: ja3 branch?
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[17:08:12] <tom3p> psha, maybe you can tell https://github.com/artek/emc2
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[17:10:29] <ssi> JAY TEEEEEE
[17:11:33] <JT-Work> lol
[17:12:06] <tom3p> psha, maybe... a note says 'joint_axes3-ysli' so ja3-ysli ?
[17:14:32] <psha> tom3p: cloning to check merge commits
[17:17:10] * JT-Work heads to the shop now
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[17:18:45] <tom3p> psha i see they have brand new gcode G6.2 , their own version of G5.2 so I cant test w/o building thier version
[17:21:02] <psha> tom3p: looks like it has ja* branch inside
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[17:23:18] <IchGuckLive> hi all over the big blue World
[17:24:31] <IchGuckLive> Today i managed to mill all the PCB parts for the new EMCMill Handhold control
[17:24:34] <IchGuckLive> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/270511192339_pendant_V1_parts.jpg
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[17:26:11] <ssi> haha I got a quote from a rigger to move that little lathe
[17:26:16] <ssi> $235/hr, 4 hr minimum
[17:26:17] <ssi> PASS
[17:26:54] <IchGuckLive> get your self a bigger car for 45$ /hr
[17:27:18] <IchGuckLive> or better ask your local Car Repair tow truck
[17:27:27] <ssi> I have a friend with a rollback
[17:27:33] <ssi> I'll buy him some beer
[17:27:40] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:27:51] <IchGuckLive> but after the Job
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[17:28:01] <ssi> barring that, I'll bring a trailer down and then have another more different friend bring over a front loader that he's got forks for
[17:28:03] <IchGuckLive> other it will be 2 lates at the ariving
[17:28:10] <ssi> yeah, after the job, definitely
[17:28:38] <IchGuckLive> a big barbeque also
[17:29:56] <psha> barbeque: $235/hr, 4 hr minimum
[17:31:08] <ssi> hey that's a good idea
[17:31:44] <tom3p> IchGuckLive, nice looking pendant, is that blue sphere a track ball with 4 buttons?
[17:33:10] <tom3p> testerday I saw a HUD at goodwill for 99$ http://www.tekgear.ca/index.cfm?pageID=90&prodid=247&section=83 i just read its retail at 1400$ CA !
[17:33:50] <tom3p> but only 320x240 60hz ( hell gimme half the refresh rate & 4x the rez dangit )
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[17:39:44] <IchGuckLive> tom3p: no 5 buttons
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[17:43:46] <ssi> I used to work with those head-mount monitors way back in the day
[17:43:55] <ssi> I did a bunch of work on wearable computing with gatech
[17:44:21] <ssi> that plus a twiddler keyboard and a singleboard computer slung in a messenger bag made for the absolute best girl repellent ever
[17:50:20] <tom3p> the twiddler wasnt that a chording keyboard? like 3 to 5 fingers squeezed btns to make a letter?
[17:53:41] <tom3p> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Septambic_key_numbering.jpg but mine was on a big plastic ball
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[18:13:00] <bzzzz> just realized that the past four vfds i bought use identical expansion slot connectors
[18:13:33] <bzzzz> i wonder if they all use the same protocol to interface with the option cards. and if it's documented. anyone know?
[18:23:30] <ssi> tom3p: yea usually up to 3 fingers
[18:23:35] <ssi> I still have one somewhere
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[18:38:18] <FinboySlick> ssi: I see my beer strategy is taking root.
[18:38:28] <The_Ball> I'm thinking of buying this motor for my mill's spindle http://wigen.net/dropbox/motor.jpg but why doesn't this motor have a fan like other induction motors?
[18:40:41] <skunkworks> andypugh: after 'calibrating' the resolver converter the pulses seem more consistant. sounds like it would peak at 255 for quite a distance initally. Anyway - what kind of low numbers are you seeing? dad was saying around 40 is where it would dip to
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[19:06:50] <mrsunshine_> hmm, i wonder how fast the spindle bearing will wear if i get a new one and put there without regrinding the axle
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[19:26:23] <andypugh> skunkworks: It sort of depends :-)
[19:26:52] <mrsunshine_> how are these oilite bearings compared to just turned brass bearings? :)
[19:27:30] <skunkworks> andypugh: :)
[19:27:33] <andypugh> You would hope that the max and min would be symmetrical around 128, but the code compensates. You see the zero-excitation values as the first numbers printed.
[19:27:58] <andypugh> (back to the workshop)
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[20:03:20] <JT-Shop> FINALLY! the weekend arrives after perfecting the leveling foot pick up tool Mk15!
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[20:10:13] <tom3p> you can watch the THC go up & down as it moves over the step block http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txGP-Qbii2E
[20:10:54] <tom3p> mo betta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoHJ_rVxjhw&NR=1
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[20:23:33] <andypugh> My attempts to machine my ballscrew ended in ignominy.
[20:23:42] <andypugh> I need a bigger lathe.
[20:24:23] <andypugh> basically there is too much flex 120mm from a centre and 300mm from the chuck.
[20:24:44] <JT-Shop> can you cobble up a following rest?
[20:25:23] <andypugh> I don't see how you can have a CNC following rest (unless it is active...)
[20:26:33] <andypugh> A 3-point steady might have been an option.
[20:27:07] <andypugh> But it is going to be simpler to head into that London and use the Colchester Student.
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[20:33:14] <JT-Shop> my first thought was something to back up the area being turned but fixed
[20:34:11] <andypugh> But the diameter changes as you machine it, and the cross slide moves about.
[20:34:28] <andypugh> (To be honest, I have never worked out how you use a fixed steady)
[20:38:01] <Loetmichel> andypugh: outside your work-area ;-)
[20:38:53] <andypugh> sorry, I meant to say "how you use a travelling steady". I have used the fixed steady a number of times.
[20:39:20] <JT-Shop> yea, you might have to position it more than once as you turn the part
[20:39:52] <JT-Shop> that one is either before the cut or after and has to be adjusted after each cut
[20:40:17] <Tom_shop> are we havin fun yet?
[20:40:29] <JT-Shop> I am now :/
[20:40:33] Tom_shop is now known as Tom_itx
[20:41:04] <JT-Shop> finally got a shooting solution for the PIA machine that puts the leveling foot into the bracket
[20:41:45] <JT-Shop> trying to get a spinning hex into a stationary but not held fast hex plastic part sucks
[20:42:06] <JT-Shop> well it is easy now that I know how :)
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[20:42:30] <Tom_itx> seems most things are like that
[20:42:32] <andypugh> Teleportation?
[20:43:22] <JT-Shop> that might have been a faster solution to implement
[20:44:53] <JT-Shop> it took me 15 or 20 different tries to figure out the magic combination
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[20:47:31] <JT-Shop> biggest problem was finding a lead in shape that didn't make the hex have to lift up if behind center
[20:52:36] <JT-Shop> what do you use cermet inserts for?
[20:54:12] <Tom_itx> cast, tough stainless
[20:55:04] <JT-Shop> ah, ok never had the fun of those materials
[20:56:34] <Tom_itx> http://www.carbidestore.com/
[20:57:23] <Jymmm> If anyone cares, There's a 25% off coupon for HF this Memorial Day weekend.
[20:57:47] <Jymmm> -weekend
[20:57:54] <Tom_itx> http://cerabit.com/Product/Product_Info.asp?Pro_Kind_Code=20
[20:57:56] <Jymmm> Just MAy 30th only
[20:58:00] <Tom_itx> various apps
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[21:05:25] <andypugh> Interesting, Youtube will let me upload videos longer than 15 mins now.
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[21:06:54] <andypugh> This one won't be there for long... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPP4r3H2VO8
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[21:11:20] <Loetmichel> andypugh: normally ballscrews are only "skin-hardened" so if you get 2mm in one stroke you SHOULD be in the mild steel and it will turn easy
[21:11:22] <cradek> the insert failed when it stopped cutting?
[21:11:47] <cradek> I can't really see what happens
[21:12:23] <cradek> a follower you reset after every pass (just have it pause at the start so you can adjust it against what the last pass left) might work?
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[21:33:07] <andypugh> No, the insert still looks good. I think the vibration shuffled the work back in the chuck and loosened the centre...
[21:34:55] <JT-Shop> now you need to make a tool post grinder :)
[21:35:50] <andypugh> I have already made two. I need to make one for _my_ lathe.
[21:37:18] <andypugh> Some interesting operations here. Unusual use of live tooling and fixed cutters..
[21:37:23] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI5SRM_HAVw&NR=1
[21:44:41] <JT-Shop> how much trouble was it to make a tool post grinder?
[21:45:45] <andypugh> Not too bad. I found a 1/4 horse motor and inverter in a skip, which was a big help.
[21:46:08] <JT-Shop> what kind of RPM does it need to have?
[21:46:40] <andypugh> Then it was a welded frame and taper roller bearings for a geared-up spindle. Having access to my dad's horizontal borer was useful.
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[21:47:41] <andypugh> Typical offhand grinders are 6" and 3000rpm, so I assume about that SFM. The one I made had a 6"wheel.
[21:48:18] <JT-Shop> doesn't sound too bad
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[21:50:09] <andypugh> tbh I could just post it to my dad, he has the little brother of one of these http://www.machineco.com/Grinder_Cyl_10x24in_Churchill_1_stkN0878.jpg
[21:50:33] <andypugh> (the grinder, not the youth in the background)
[21:50:45] <JT-Shop> there you go even easier
[21:50:52] <andypugh> Typically for my dad, he paid £40 scra value for it.
[21:50:59] <andypugh> (scrap)
[21:51:38] <andypugh> Trouble is, he is hors de combat for 3 weeks after a knee upgrade.
[21:53:56] <andypugh> It's a nice machine. The grinding head moves up and down, in and out, and rotates on a vertical axis. The table swings for tapers. There is a dovetail on the front to mount an internal grinding spindle, and attachments for cutter sharpening. The work spindle also swivels independently of the bed.
[21:54:48] <andypugh> There are not many grinding operations it can't do.
[21:57:14] <JT-Shop> sounds neat
[21:57:56] <andypugh> Nearly as much fun as the horizontal borer, which makes a passable mill and 3' swing lathe too.
[21:58:05] <JT-Shop> my only grinding is a Dewalt 4 1/2 angle grinder or three, and a couple of bench grinders
[21:58:36] <andypugh> I do have a toolpost mount for a Dremel.
[21:59:44] <andypugh> You could probably get a long way clamping a bench grinder to the toolpost.
[22:00:02] <JT-Shop> yea, if you take light cuts
[22:00:24] <JT-Shop> Dremel for internal grinding?
[22:00:50] <andypugh> One thing I have learned about grinding, you actually need to do the infeed against the shoulder, with full wheel engagement. If you do it off the work then the leading edge wears to a taper.
[22:01:17] <andypugh> The dremel was actually for slicing up test-tubes.
[22:03:32] <JT-Shop> I used to operate a belt driven grinder to make cutters to make nail points... interesting little machine
[22:06:06] <andypugh> http://www.atp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/CanYouTellWhatItIsYet.jpg
[22:06:32] <andypugh> Was the final result of the test-tube slicing, with added lasers.
[22:07:11] <andypugh> It's actually a clock which projects a red and green laser line on the wall it is mounted to.
[22:09:14] <JT-Shop> neat
[22:10:07] <andypugh> It was actually disappointing in the end. And the clock mechanism became unreliable when I made it run backwards. It is on a shelf somewhere being forgotten about now.
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[22:21:26] * JT-Shop threatens to clean off the work table
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[22:33:09] <andypugh> Now you are just being silly!
[22:36:32] <JT-Shop> LOL
[22:36:47] <JT-Shop> it keeps calling my name
[22:37:25] <andypugh> Oddly, I never have that problem.
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[22:39:55] <JT-Shop> I like stuff in it's place and a place for everything
[22:40:16] <andypugh> So do I, but can't afford the staff to make it happen. :-)
[22:40:31] <JT-Shop> and if I open a drawer and it's not there when I find it I put it in the first place I looked
[22:41:13] <JT-Shop> I'm the one armed paper hanger here... only staff want's to lick me all the time
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[22:51:11] <andypugh> I wish the project had an overbearing dictator. At least then you could get an idea of whether it was worth coding stuff or not.
[22:52:39] <l0st1nsp4c3> lol
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[22:54:13] <andypugh> l0st1nsp4c3: Not a name I recognise, new user?
[22:55:01] <ds3> project == emc?
[22:55:21] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh: you could say that
[22:55:31] <andypugh> ds3: Yes
[22:55:51] <ds3> isn't that what SWPados et al is suppose to be?
[22:56:23] <andypugh> The Board of Directors? I am not sure, they don;t seem to do much directing.
[22:57:34] <andypugh> (And why should they?)
[22:57:49] <ds3> what are you looking for?
[22:58:16] <andypugh> Guidance
[22:58:29] <ds3> what sort of guidence?
[22:58:54] <andypugh> which way to go with a feature.
[22:59:05] * JT-Shop understands andypugh
[22:59:11] <ds3> Hmm
[22:59:28] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh: as I am well versed in the art of receiving directions from higher up
[22:59:52] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh: first go left....then right...then up....then down....then when done come back to me so I can yell at you and tell you that you did it all wrong
[23:00:06] <l0st1nsp4c3> and then rince and repeat!
[23:00:55] <andypugh> As in, I can spend my long weekend recoding a driver, but if I head in the wrong direction, that is a weekend wasted.
[23:01:19] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh: sounds like many jobs i've had
[23:01:34] <andypugh> Yeah, but with a job, you get paid.
[23:01:39] <l0st1nsp4c3> but usualy going in the wrong direction is actually the boss telling you to do it that way lol
[23:01:43] <l0st1nsp4c3> and yes you also get paid
[23:01:45] <l0st1nsp4c3> and yelled at
[23:03:37] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh: i say do the best you can and see what happens
[23:03:49] <l0st1nsp4c3> andypugh: i will hope for the best for u =P
[23:08:55] <bzzzz> clever people know how to dodge yellings
[23:11:00] <Gensor> has anyone used twisted 10 pair 24gage shielded wire
[23:11:50] <andypugh> I am sure somebody has, or it would be much cheaper.
[23:13:04] <l0st1nsp4c3> bzzzz: if you say so
[23:14:13] <Gensor> how long of a run do you think I can use for servo with encoder etc
[23:14:55] <andypugh> Servo power and encoder in the same cable? I probably wouldn't.
[23:15:05] <Gensor> nope seperate
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[23:19:55] <andypugh> Is the endcoder differential?
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[23:20:20] <Gensor> absolute
[23:20:43] <Gensor> dunno if that answered your question
[23:20:45] <andypugh> That's the answer to a different question.
[23:21:28] <andypugh> Parallel or serial?
[23:22:36] <andypugh> Actually I don't know why I am asking, as I don't really know. What sort of distance are you talking?
[23:24:15] <Gensor> under 6ft
[23:24:39] <Gensor> I guess we will find out
[23:25:12] <Gensor> new question how best to ship a bridgeport sight unseen in US
[23:25:24] <Tom_itx> truck
[23:25:35] <Tom_itx> usps
[23:25:37] <Tom_itx> :D
[23:25:41] <Tom_itx> put a stamp on it
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[23:28:51] <andypugh> Gensor: 6'? I don't know why you are even asking. I guarantee it will be fine, and will buy you a pint if I am wrong. (you collect)
[23:31:43] <JT-Shop> Gensor: pick it up yourself, truck
[23:32:18] <JT-Shop> Gensor: What sort of distance are you talking?
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[23:33:14] <JT-Shop> I've shipped two LTL with no problems
[23:33:59] <JT-Shop> I drove to Michigan from Missouri to buy one took one look and drove home 24hrs on the road :/
[23:34:53] <Gensor> CA to SD
[23:35:07] <Gensor> Andy: Thanks...
[23:35:22] <Gensor> Ive never setup a less than truck load
[23:35:28] <JT-Shop> pretty good haul
[23:36:05] <JT-Shop> contact brokers in your area to see if they go to CA
[23:36:23] <JT-Shop> btw, what part of SD?
[23:36:35] <Gensor> rapid city west side
[23:36:51] <Gensor> close to sturgis :)
[23:37:09] <JT-Shop> we go pheasant hunting in Mitchell
[23:38:15] <Gensor> good deal
[23:38:41] <JT-Shop> is the seller a dealer or an individual?
[23:39:09] <Gensor> appears to be a dealer
[23:39:27] <JT-Shop> he should have some shippers to get prices from then
[23:39:38] <JT-Shop> a knee mill?
[23:40:14] <Gensor> 2000lb series 1
[23:41:02] <JT-Shop> I have a series 1, would not take much to haul it
[23:41:25] <JT-Shop> I doubt it weights 2k more like 1500 just guessing
[23:41:41] <JT-Shop> a CNC conversion?
[23:41:48] <Gensor> rigid ram
[23:42:16] <JT-Shop> oh, that might be heaver than the normal one
[23:42:16] <Gensor> sh... not purchased yet. am weighing options
[23:42:27] <JT-Shop> on flea bay?
[23:42:37] * Tom_itx looks
[23:42:41] * Tom_itx bids
[23:42:42] <Tom_itx> :D
[23:42:46] <JT-Shop> LOL
[23:43:05] <Gensor> can I have carrier hand over payment on pickup?
[23:43:11] <Tom_itx> if i did i'd have to hire you to build me a shop
[23:43:30] <JT-Shop> not heard of that option
[23:43:59] <JT-Shop> usually you wire it then pay the carrier for shipping when he/she/it delivers it
[23:44:02] <Tom_itx> if you made prior arrangements maybe
[23:44:05] <Tom_itx> if you trust them
[23:44:48] <Gensor> been burned once on ebay... trying to minimize risk
[23:45:04] <JT-Shop> I will only buy from flea bay if the seller has like 99.9999999999% or higher rating
[23:45:27] <Tom_itx> especially on somthing big
[23:45:32] <JT-Shop> if you suspect then take a road trip and bring a trailer
[23:45:55] <Tom_itx> pick jt up along the way to help you load it
[23:45:59] <Gensor> I would like to see the red wood forest again...
[23:46:17] <JT-Shop> I'll bring my sack-o-comealongs
[23:46:34] <JT-Shop> and sack-o-ratchetstraps
[23:47:10] <Gensor> ya... I hear ya
[23:47:14] <JT-Shop> got a link