#emc | Logs for 2011-05-23

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[01:05:59] <Gensor> what is the cost of changing a bridgeport from 3phase to 1phase?
[01:09:43] <Tom_L> a transformer
[01:10:06] <Gensor> somewhere under a $1000?
[01:10:27] <Tom_L> not sure
[01:10:27] <Tom_L> never had to get one
[01:10:57] <toastydeath> how are you doing it
[01:10:57] <Tom_L> you don't want to use a phase inverter?
[01:11:32] <Gensor> you got me... that is why I am asking
[01:11:41] <toastydeath> manual bridgeports don't give a shit about how clean the power is and will run off an RPC
[01:11:48] <toastydeath> which are largely a homebrew item
[01:13:05] <Gensor> bridgeport interact
[01:13:45] <Gensor> what is an rpc
[01:13:53] <Tom_L> don't use me as a last word here but my bud started out his shop using a phase inverter
[01:13:59] <Tom_L> and depending on how many machines he had on, he would change the tap on it
[01:14:58] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, i think i got things working here finally. mapped all my selector switches and mpg and tested it. got output on all axis
[01:14:58] <Tom_L> woot!
[01:15:01] <Gensor> Im assuming the cheapenst route would be to use a VFD on the spindle and try to rewire the other circuitry for 220v
[01:15:09] <toastydeath> vfd is the most costly option
[01:15:34] <Gensor> tom: good for you!
[01:15:50] <Tom_L> i'm thinking a phase inverter might be the cheapest route
[01:16:00] <toastydeath> rotary phase converter is the cheapest
[01:16:12] <toastydeath> since it uses a cheap 3ph motor
[01:16:15] <Tom_L> i'm not sure how it's done but you can make one from an old motor
[01:16:28] <toastydeath> if you have a 1 hp bridgeport, you need a 2 hp motor
[01:16:36] <Tom_L> converter*
[01:16:38] <toastydeath> 5 hp sprindle, 10 hp motor
[01:17:07] <toastydeath> VFDs that will take 1ph and spit out 3ph are expensive in any actual size
[01:17:29] <Tom_L> http://cgi.ebay.com/7-5-HP-Rotary-Phase-Converter-CNC-Balanced-HD-/310319251753?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item4840780129
[01:18:09] <toastydeath> balance is very, very important
[01:18:12] <Tom_L> some cnc's don't like them
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[01:18:29] <Gensor> thanks for the info
[01:18:38] <toastydeath> industria/commercial cnc gear is very intolerant of power problems
[01:18:51] <toastydeath> and most rpcs have power problems of varying descriptions
[01:19:05] <toastydeath> voltage imbalance being prime among them
[01:19:22] <Gensor> If you see a bridgeport interact for under 3000, please let me know!
[01:19:31] <Tom_L> http://cgi.ebay.com/10-HP-Rotary-Phase-Converter-CNC-Balanced-HD-/260785675069?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item3cb8099b3d
[01:19:34] <Tom_L> 10Hp
[01:21:08] <Tom_L> don't they need a load to work?
[01:21:12] <Tom_L> i can't remember
[01:23:43] <Tom_L> we ended up changing the transformer in a Fadal because it didn't like the converter
[01:23:47] <Connor> I've hear of.. or seen, someone use a 2nd 3-phase motor to provide the 3rd phase..
[01:24:06] <Tom_L> the old bridgeport boss5 and tracer worked fine
[01:25:32] <toastydeath> Connor, that is what is being discussed
[01:26:35] <Connor> oh, sorry... didn't read far enough up.
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[02:08:04] <willburrrr2003> Has anyone used the NGCGUI file backlash.ngc?
[02:08:06] <Gensor> what linux is the best full feature (non-ubuntu)
[02:08:36] <willburrrr2003> when I try to use it it tells me there is an m# used that it doesn't recognize....
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[02:11:06] <willburrrr2003> I see an m2 2 n the file and an m110 in the file
[02:11:27] <toastydeath> m110 is probably the retarded line
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[02:12:07] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Does it go to a SPECIAL skool and ride the short bus?
[02:12:25] <toastydeath> probably but i wouldn't want to assume
[02:12:34] <Jymmm> lol
[02:12:51] <willburrrr2003> any Idea what it should be, or what it is trying to do? the routine came with ngc under the testsuite folder...possibley just a mill function instead of a lathe function?
[02:12:51] * Jymmm used to DRIVE the short bus.
[02:13:21] <toastydeath> willburrrr2003, you are using emc right
[02:13:25] <toastydeath> i don't think there is an m110
[02:13:30] <toastydeath> but you should look that up.
[02:13:38] <willburrrr2003> I don't know about the short bus but I think it wears a padded helmet....
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[02:13:50] <willburrrr2003> yes emc 2.4.3 i think
[02:14:20] <toastydeath> isn't there a list of emc g and m codes
[02:14:37] <toastydeath> m2 better be on there, m110 is a special function if it exists at all
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[02:15:37] <willburrrr2003> m2 is end program, m101-199 are user defined M-codes
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[02:17:01] <toastydeath> where does emc define user defined codes
[02:17:05] <willburrrr2003> the backlash.ngc was in with the mill fioles, so possibly in its sample ini is the m110 setup
[02:17:23] <willburrrr2003> I would assume in the ini file?
[02:19:19] <toastydeath> does it call some function
[02:19:22] <toastydeath> or is it blank
[02:19:33] <willburrrr2003> don't see it in the ini....hmmm will have to read up on it
[02:20:34] <willburrrr2003> i am thinking it is a custom M-code function having to do with a 1" dial indicatior, since that is what the routing uses for the backlash measuring in the function
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[02:21:53] <Gensor> when does ubuntu update?
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[02:35:38] <elmo401> Gensor what do you mean update?
[02:35:42] <elmo401> between versions?
[02:37:01] <elmo401> take a look : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/8acad6facd1e945d9b6995263bf4133d.png
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[02:41:54] <Tom_L> i've been testing a bit here and can't figure something out. mesa board with steppers attached. i can send a G0 command and rapid up around 200 ipm but when i enter a G1 Fxx the best i can get before the steppers start stalling is around F75 or so
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[02:44:39] <Tom_afk> and of course irc disconnects me
[02:44:54] <Tom_shop> ping
[02:45:10] <elmo401> pong
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[02:45:44] <Tom_itx> terrible lag between the 2 pcs
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[08:16:44] <Tom_itx> logger[psha]
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[08:55:52] <Loetmichel> moin!
[08:56:08] <Loetmichel> ehm, sorry, good morning!
[09:01:03] <Loetmichel> *grrr* I HATE our Engineers. The had the monitor ddc lines grounded by default for EMI reasons... No problem with 17" or 19", computer recognizes a "std vga non-plug&pla-monitor" and you can switch to at least 1280*1024. But bad if you have a 24" 1920*1200 monitor. :-(
[09:01:58] * Loetmichel is fixing it by desoldering the ddc eeporm and soldering it into the (fixed mounted) VGA plug on the monitor. *shitshitshit*
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[11:43:59] * jthornton thinks a hard drive works much better if both ends of the cable are plugged in :/
[11:44:37] * SWPadnos agrees
[11:45:52] <Tom_shop> logger[psha]
[11:45:59] <archivist> also make sure the unit is switched on
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[11:47:24] <Tom_shop> any ideas on why G00 works fine up around F200 but G1 craps out at much over F75?
[11:47:37] <jthornton> now I have proof that if you plug both ends of the cable in it is much more likely that the drive will be seen by the system
[11:48:10] <jthornton> describe "craps out"
[11:48:20] <SWPadnos> also describe "works fine"
[11:48:22] <Tom_shop> stepper buzzes and stops
[11:49:24] <archivist> over optimistic expectations of top speed
[11:49:35] <jthornton> are both moves identical except for the G0/G1?
[11:49:41] <archivist> bad acceleration curves
[11:50:35] <archivist> and after a comment the other day do you have backlash compensation set
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[11:54:14] <Tom_itx> yes, i'm bench testing a stepper before i hook it up to the machine trying to get the software all set up. ie buttons pendant etc
[11:54:38] <Tom_itx> i mdi G00 x3 then mdi G01 x0 Fxx
[11:55:01] <Tom_itx> no compensation yet
[11:55:58] <Tom_itx> pretty damn bad when you gotta read the log to keep up with your conversion on irc
[11:56:32] <archivist> you have to accelerate a stepper correctly or you may get problems going through resonance
[11:56:48] <jthornton> try running the step test http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html#r1_3
[11:57:04] <jthornton> to find your maximums then run again in the machine
[11:57:15] <Tom_itx> i will
[11:57:46] <archivist> things will change a lot on the machine with added mass and friction
[11:57:55] <Tom_itx> i figured i'd mess with it on the bench and get used to setting it up then tune it on the machine
[11:58:04] <Tom_itx> archivist, i knwo
[11:58:06] <Tom_itx> know*
[11:58:40] <Tom_itx> it's just easier to work with it and get used to the software etc at my desk
[11:58:52] <Tom_itx> i'll tune it on the machine
[12:00:46] <jthornton> acceleration set too high is a typical reason for stalling a stepper
[12:03:03] <jthornton> Tom_itx: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Motor_Speed_Limitations
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[12:14:55] <Tom_itx> i started with pretty much default settings
[12:15:15] <SWPadnos> there are no default settings :)
[12:15:28] <SWPadnos> (or at least, the numbers there are irrelevant to any real machine)
[12:15:35] <jthornton> ^^ what he said
[12:15:41] <Tom_itx> well i know that
[12:16:06] <Tom_itx> i meant i'm using what was loaded as software defaults
[12:16:13] <SWPadnos> did you always do G1 X3 / G0 x0?
[12:16:13] <Tom_itx> for the most part
[12:16:30] <Tom_itx> no, i did the linear moves as pairs and rapids as pairs
[12:16:32] <SWPadnos> vs. using G0 to move "right" and G1 to move "left"
[12:16:34] <SWPadnos> ok
[12:16:46] <Tom_itx> G00 x3 Fxx G00 x0 Fxx
[12:16:53] <Tom_itx> err G1^^
[12:16:58] <Tom_itx> then the rapids
[12:17:04] <SWPadnos> ok
[12:17:13] <SWPadnos> I was going to say, F is irrelevant for G0 moves
[12:17:22] <Tom_itx> the rapids have a much smoother acceleration curve
[12:17:46] <SWPadnos> and you changed the maxvel setting in the ini file to change G0 speed?
[12:17:51] <Tom_itx> and i probably could have gone well past F300 on them
[12:17:59] <Tom_itx> set with the slider in emc
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[12:18:14] <SWPadnos> which slider?
[12:18:20] <Tom_itx> i don't have it on atm
[12:18:21] <Tom_itx> sry
[12:18:25] <SWPadnos> ok
[12:18:30] <Tom_itx> gotta leave in a few
[12:18:50] <Tom_itx> iirc it was max velocity
[12:18:57] <SWPadnos> hmm
[12:19:08] <Tom_itx> and i was curious why it overrode the file settings
[12:19:26] <SWPadnos> it do4esn't
[12:19:28] <SWPadnos> err
[12:19:30] <SWPadnos> -4
[12:19:38] <Tom_itx> i'll check all the settings later today
[12:19:43] <Tom_itx> and have better info
[12:19:58] <SWPadnos> the only slider that I'm aware of, which affects G0, is one that may reduce the G0 speed
[12:20:03] <SWPadnos> not increase
[12:20:18] <Tom_itx> well there's one that maxd out around 600
[12:20:28] <Tom_itx> i moved it down to about halfway
[12:20:51] <Tom_itx> i forget what it was called but it was the bottom slider mdi
[12:20:56] <SWPadnos> well, I don't know what's going on, but I suspect it isn't what you expect :)
[12:21:01] <Tom_itx> default emc screen
[12:21:26] <Tom_itx> i'm not expecting anything yet, just trying to figure out the settings
[12:21:54] <jthornton> did you use the StepConf Wizard to generate your config?
[12:21:59] <Tom_itx> no
[12:22:17] <Tom_itx> the default stuff for the mesa boards
[12:22:41] <jthornton> oh, I forgot you have a mesa board
[12:22:51] <Tom_itx> i've got time to post the hal and ini files then i probably gotta go
[12:23:07] <jthornton> I've got to head out too
[12:23:23] <jthornton> do you know your stepper drive timing ?
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[12:23:56] <SWPadnos> see you later
[12:24:34] <Tom_itx> 10s
[12:24:38] <Tom_itx> on the pulse
[12:24:58] <Tom_itx> default was 40 with the default file
[12:25:10] <Tom_itx> my old controller had it around 6s
[12:26:00] <jthornton> so really knowing the drive timing you just need to work out the max rpm and acceleration
[12:26:58] * jthornton heads out
[12:27:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/
[12:27:13] <Tom_itx> those should be current
[12:30:20] <Tom_itx> jthornton, ya.. if you're a math whiz
[12:31:56] <Tom_itx> figuring the table mass and what it takes to move it isn't something i'm used to doing on a regular basis
[12:36:40] <anonimasu> Tom_itx: trial and error works best
[12:37:46] <anonimasu> set your maxvel sanely high and try increasing your accel until it stalls
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[13:03:24] <Valen> ey anybody seen morfic around?
[13:03:37] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKjKfyxD79E
[13:03:52] <Valen> I was wondering how a hunk of cobalt would go as a point on something to punch holes in hardened steel
[13:04:06] <Valen> (think an ice pick into steel and you get the idea)
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[13:04:24] <Valen> or if anybody else has a suggestion for the best material to make the point itself out of
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[13:08:21] <archivist> Valen, how many times, eg production or 10 off, there are books on press tool design and forces
[13:08:45] <archivist> or is this robot wars
[13:09:12] <anonimasu> Valen: it's not too heavy
[13:09:22] <anonimasu> it's a matter of applying hooke's law
[13:09:40] <anonimasu> and you need to apply force to a point that exceeds the material you want to punc's shear force
[13:09:48] <Valen> robot wars
[13:10:02] <anonimasu> while keeping the force on the tool by material choice under the strain limit
[13:10:10] <Valen> a spinning disk is hitting an angled plate of armor
[13:10:15] <anonimasu> Valen: cobalt is kind of brittle...
[13:10:23] <Valen> we want the tooth sticking out of the disk to bite in to the armor
[13:10:34] <anonimasu> you want a steel with a high modulus of elasticity and a high toughness
[13:10:50] <Valen> doesn't have to punch through (though that is cool) but it must grab
[13:11:07] <Valen> thing is the armor is these days high hardness steels
[13:11:22] <anonimasu> got numbers?
[13:11:38] <anonimasu> you need a toigher steel to punch through them
[13:11:40] <anonimasu> tougher...
[13:12:18] <anonimasu> brittle might do, but it probably wont survive the moment after
[13:12:32] <Valen> chrome://downloads/home/jake/Downloads/Bisplate_400.pdf
[13:12:42] <Valen> doesn't need to survive too many rounds
[13:13:03] <anonimasu> err that's a local file
[13:13:11] <Valen> duh sorry
[13:13:23] <Valen> http://www.bisalloy.com.au/files/Bisplate_Pdfs/Bisplate_400.pdf
[13:13:23] <anonimasu> how thich?
[13:13:25] <anonimasu> thick
[13:13:29] <Valen> stoopod chrome
[13:13:31] <Valen> varies
[13:13:38] <Valen> 3mm is standard
[13:13:50] <anonimasu> holy crap.
[13:13:55] <anonimasu> punching that will be heavy.
[13:14:46] <Valen> currently its achieved with a ~1m titanium bar spinning at 3000RPM with 2x 500 gram S7 tool steel teeth hanging off it
[13:15:10] <anonimasu> i think that's as good as it gets
[13:15:47] <anonimasu> what's the problem with the current design?
[13:16:00] <Valen> doesn't do as much to the biz
[13:16:05] <Valen> just scrapes off it
[13:16:09] <Valen> doesn't bite in
[13:16:42] <anonimasu> you need a force down into the floor i gues
[13:16:43] <anonimasu> s
[13:17:08] <anonimasu> the force you can give with that configuration is only angular momentum
[13:18:23] <anonimasu> I'd say to pierce that you need a hammer...
[13:18:38] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H36YjKvsTe8
[13:18:47] <Valen> the goal isnt to punch a hole through them
[13:18:55] <Valen> its not going to work
[13:19:12] <anonimasu> well, if you want to hook to them that is how it'll have to work
[13:19:46] <anonimasu> cant make anything attach to a flat surface
[13:21:16] <anonimasu> just my 5c
[13:21:18] <pcw_home> suction cup?
[13:21:30] <Valen> when people used mild steel for armor it would dig in
[13:21:35] <Jymmm> crazy glue + acetone
[13:21:47] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m5Hi9cjajo&feature=related this is a competition that would be nice to win
[13:23:15] <anonimasu> pcw_home: indeed but where to get vaccum from :)
[13:24:27] <anonimasu> Valen: how does the tooth look?
[13:24:44] <jdhNC> anyone ever seen a paxtonpatterson cnc'ed sherline mill or lathe?
[13:24:51] <anonimasu> _\ ?
[13:25:09] <anonimasu> can you get it below them?
[13:25:55] <Valen> current tooth design http://www.robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=74
[13:26:02] <Valen> not my bot, but a good indicator
[13:26:19] <anonimasu> I see..
[13:26:28] <anonimasu> you would need alot more point to make damage..
[13:26:30] <anonimasu> or hook
[13:27:06] <anonimasu> simply you cant get enough force on that point to dig in...
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[13:31:35] <anonimasu> from a mechanical perspective
[13:31:54] <anonimasu> 200g spinning at 3000rpm dosent give enough power to do that
[13:33:24] <The_Ball> I might be using the wrong search terms, but I can't find any info on hooking up a tool touch off switch to EMC, is there any info on the wiki?
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[13:35:36] <jdhNC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Touch_Probe
[13:36:04] <The_Ball> jdhNC, ah, thanks mate
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[13:40:53] <jdhNC> connor?
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[13:44:47] <archivist> oscilloscope
[13:45:02] <archivist> oops wrong keyboard :)
[13:45:30] <jdhNC> beat your opponents 'bot with an old Tek scope?
[13:45:56] <archivist> I still have one
[13:46:01] <archivist> or three
[13:46:28] <jdhNC> I had a 465B, sold it and bought a cheap chinese one that isn't so painful to use
[13:47:22] <archivist> there is a discussion on the classiccmp mailing list at the moment where 465 gets mentioned
[13:48:04] <jdhNC> for use as a large weight?
[13:48:25] <jdhNC> I never had desk space to leave it out.. my little owon sits on top of some other stuff.
[13:48:54] <jdhNC> http://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2010/09/18/dso-quad-is-forming-make-a-wish/
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[13:54:42] <archivist> cant see wrist mount doing that well
[13:55:02] <jdhNC> nah, that was just the 'wish list' part
[13:55:03] <Jymmm> "Scotty, beam me up"
[13:55:07] <archivist> bugger missed the Harrogate model engineer show!
[13:55:46] <jdhNC> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/preorder-dso-quad-4-channel-digital-storage-oscilloscope-p-736.html?cPath=174&zenid=811c7adcb088bd11a3aadc5ea96055ad
[13:55:57] <jdhNC> I'd like to have one just to be easy to carry around
[13:56:33] <jdhNC> 4 digital channels would be nice though
[13:57:20] <Jymmm> jdhNC: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ds0201-2-8-lcd-pocket-mini-oscilloscope-v1-5-device-micro-sd-tf-card-slot-39750 There are other variations of it up there too
[13:58:24] <Jymmm> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ds0201-2-8-lcd-pocket-mini-oscilloscope-v1-5-complete-kits-micro-sd-tf-card-slot-39749
[13:58:30] <jdhNC> yep, lots of those types around the other has 2 analog + 2 digital
[13:59:12] <Jymmm> Is that a scope in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me
[13:59:46] <Jymmm> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/dso1060-5-7-lcd-60mhz-2-channel-handheld-scopemeter-oscilloscope-with-usb-host-device-35971
[14:00:40] <Valen> anonimasu: well the weapon has about the same KE as a .50 armor piercing rifle bullet so one would assume they could do the job
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[14:01:54] <anonimasu> and you also have the trajectory as issue
[14:02:23] <anonimasu> I doubt you really do have that kinetic energy becaust it would defenetively pierce
[14:03:09] <Valen> well you can do the maths your self
[14:03:23] <anonimasu> also you have tungsten tip on thoose
[14:03:58] <anonimasu> and sacrifical material to get inside
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[14:05:06] <anonimasu> and last of all surface area...
[14:05:09] <anonimasu> -_-
[14:07:00] <pcw_home> I can see the momentum possibly, but nowhere near the KE as a bullet (KE proportianal to velocity ^2)
[14:08:06] <jdhNC> almost 1km/sec
[14:10:17] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrFEmTnMzV8
[14:10:51] <pcw_home> both the shooter and the target get the same momentum but the target gets the KE (in ratio of square of gun/bullet mass I think)
[14:11:40] <jdhNC> 18000 j, better to not be the recipient
[14:11:51] <The_Ball> skunkworks, recycled parts, sweet
[14:12:25] <cradek> skunkworks: that sure is easy to appreciate if you've ever drilled a pcb by hand
[14:12:34] <The_Ball> I really like the RC servo Z servo
[14:14:03] <anonimasu> anyway it dosnet matter as the impact depends on the surface area of the hammer
[14:14:14] <anonimasu> their area is pretty big compared to the bullet one
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[14:14:31] <anonimasu> so unless they have a sharp tip they wont have nowhere near the n/mm^2 they need to penetrate or make anything
[14:15:24] <jdhNC> what provides the force?
[14:17:42] <skunkworks> cradek: exactly
[14:19:37] <Loetmichel> anonimasu: but a hammer has a much bigger mass than a bullt
[14:19:42] <Loetmichel> bullet
[14:20:10] <Loetmichel> and if the hammer has a fin it will have LESS iimpact area than a blunt bullet
[14:20:11] <elmo401> the force is provided by the velocity.
[14:20:14] <elmo401> and the mass
[14:20:29] <elmo401> raise either one and you increase impact
[14:20:58] * Loetmichel had schot a .45 colt peacemaker faksimilie
[14:21:01] <anonimasu> their hammer dosent
[14:21:11] <anonimasu> it has a \/ notch with a long sharp tip
[14:21:21] <Loetmichel> with ammunition wihich has 1040m/s
[14:21:34] <Loetmichel> and of coures ~30gr lead...
[14:21:40] -!- krushia has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[14:21:42] <Loetmichel> THAT has a high impact force ;-)
[14:22:31] <Loetmichel> teh bullet penetrates 38mm carbon stell says the manufacturer
[14:22:32] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:22:35] <Loetmichel> steel
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[14:23:14] <The_Ball> jdhNC, for the quad dso: "target price >150$" you think that's supposed to be <?
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[14:36:52] <jdhNC> The_Ball: they are $199 I think
[14:36:57] <jdhNC> see the next url
[14:37:17] <The_Ball> jdhNC, ah, still pretty sweet
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[16:06:09] <nullie> all my joints are homed, but I can't switch to world mode. Are there some hidden joints?
[16:09:39] <Connor> What kind of error you getting?
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[16:22:23] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKjKfyxD79E
[16:22:44] <skunkworks> forgot to metion - read the whole description
[16:23:17] <syyl> that looks very cool :o
[16:24:26] <The_Ball> skunkworks, yeah I want a extruder head
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[16:24:57] <skunkworks> Right now - that is pretty low on the priority list. some day.,..
[16:24:57] <Connor> Dang it. Got bumped.
[16:25:07] <Connor> what did I miss?
[16:25:44] <jdhNC> some guy was giving away 2 free geckos, but you missed it.
[16:25:55] <Connor> Yea. Figures. :)
[16:27:54] <Connor> I'm half tempted to switch my order for the G0704 to the G0463 (X3) if they have them in stock.. but.. I really like the 704... and it has the stand..
[16:28:12] <jdhNC> I don't think the stand is very good
[16:28:28] <Connor> Why not?
[16:28:30] <jdhNC> but, it is there, and better than nothing I suppose.
[16:28:48] <jdhNC> half the posts I've seen say the stand was damaged/bent/etc
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[16:29:06] <jdhNC> X3 doesn't have near the travel
[16:29:11] <Connor> That's from poor shipping.. Nothing a rubber mallet can't fix.
[16:29:21] <Connor> year.. that't he thing about the X3.. is the travel.
[16:29:35] <Connor> and DRO for the speed either.
[16:30:12] <jdhNC> that won't matter after you add an encoder
[16:30:55] <Connor> table size: 7 1/8" x 26 5/8 vs 6 1/4" x 21 5/8" (X3)
[16:31:21] <Connor> X3 has more Z and Quill travel.
[16:31:31] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:31:47] <Connor> Hoss Flipped his over and got even more..
[16:32:29] <Connor> OH. the head on 704 90 degree.. no go on the X3
[16:32:44] <jdhNC> I can't see ever wanting to screw with that
[16:33:00] <jdhNC> unless you CNC'ed the rotation
[16:33:11] <Connor> I don't have a lathe... So.. Was planning on using that for mini lathe.
[16:33:19] <Connor> and yea.. that's a possibility too.
[16:33:52] <jdhNC> dunno if you could make a swivel mount rigid enough for that and not have it way oversized for the rest of the machine
[16:34:27] <Connor> Hoss got a 8" Rotary table that fits perfect.
[16:34:51] <jdhNC> yeah, well... he talks funny, so there.
[16:35:09] <Connor> Sorry.. Don't mean to sound like I'm worshiping Hoss.
[16:35:22] <Connor> He's just done a heck of allot with his..
[16:35:31] <jdhNC> yep, that's why I'm getting one.
[16:35:41] <jdhNC> but, he still sounds funny :)
[16:35:48] <Connor> His voice?
[16:36:00] <jdhNC> yes
[16:36:18] <Connor> Sounds like a country boy to me.. but then again, I live in TN.. I've hear ALLOT worse.
[16:37:06] <jdhNC> I lived in knoxvegas for 12 years... chatt/nashville for 20 before that.
[16:37:31] <Connor> Yea, I think I remember you saying something about that.
[16:37:44] <Connor> and of course, your in NC now.. hence your nick on IRC
[16:38:13] <jdhNC> yeah, I'm not so creative (my usual jdh was taken)
[16:38:36] <Connor> I've went by Connor for years and years.
[16:38:48] <Connor> Very rare that I don't get it..
[16:39:24] <jdhNC> the jdh that is registered here might be be, but I don't remember
[16:39:31] <jdhNC> err... might be me.
[16:40:46] <nullie> Connor, error was "all joints must be homed before going into teleop mode"
[16:41:10] <Connor> how many Axis do you have and how many does EMC say ?
[16:41:10] <jdhNC> I've seen that message and never knew what it meant
[16:41:26] <jdhNC> everything still worked though and I have no idea what teleop mode is
[16:41:44] <nullie> Connor, it's three axis, with two motor on X axis
[16:42:06] <nullie> Connor, config defines seven axes though
[16:42:13] <Connor> Ay, yea.
[16:42:16] <Connor> there is your issue.
[16:42:28] <Connor> you need to change the line in EMC file to only have XYZ
[16:42:31] <Connor> or XXYZ
[16:42:41] <nullie> hm, hever though about XXYZ
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[16:43:20] <Connor> I'm not exactly sure what that does for you...
[16:43:25] <Connor> I don't have 2 on my X..
[16:45:00] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[TRAJ]-section
[16:47:09] <Connor> Which are you calling your X and which are you callling Y ?
[16:47:25] <Connor> X should be side to side, Y is back and forth, and Z is up and down..
[16:47:46] <Connor> Double motor's are normally on Y for the gantry.
[16:48:02] <Connor> When I started out, I got my X and Y backwards..
[16:48:08] <Connor> but, that's all fixed now. :)
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[16:49:28] <Tom_itx> logger[psha]
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[17:14:39] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: are you still around?
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[17:30:50] <IchGuckLive> Hi all from the sunny Germany
[17:31:04] <IchGuckLive> someone around tornado ally ?
[17:31:45] <JT-Shop> just to the east of it on the other side of MO
[17:32:11] <IchGuckLive> Hard to belive here
[17:32:15] <Tom_itx> on the swamp east side
[17:32:25] <Tom_itx> i'm dead in the middle of it
[17:32:29] <JT-Shop> yep
[17:32:51] <JT-Shop> jeff city?
[17:32:52] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive why di you ask?
[17:32:59] <cncbasher> hope it's not too bad John .. think we are getting the backwash of it 80mph winds here in the uk
[17:33:04] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, who?
[17:33:05] <Tom_itx> not me
[17:33:29] <JT-Shop> in the middle of MO?
[17:33:33] <Tom_itx> ks
[17:33:49] <JT-Shop> middle north/south ah
[17:34:02] <Tom_itx> we've had straight line winds blow over the big turnpike signs like tinker toys too
[17:34:07] <Tom_itx> Wichita
[17:34:12] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: saw the picture in TV with obamas wive holding a Ebglish Beer
[17:34:42] <Tom_itx> there must be something i missed about that
[17:34:55] <cncbasher> yea i bet they dont drink it though
[17:34:59] <Loetmichel> [grin] hier in the midst of german its sunny , steel blue sky, 23,4c and not the slightest sight of air movement
[17:35:07] <Loetmichel> ... and humid :-(
[17:35:15] <Loetmichel> [19:34:42] <Loetmichel> ... and humid :-(
[17:35:22] <Loetmichel> (in the evening)
[17:35:23] <Tom_itx> google greensburg ks if you wanna see what can happen
[17:35:29] <Tom_itx> you'll find plenty of pics
[17:35:39] <IchGuckLive> her its 27Deg around Ramstein USAFV
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[17:38:09] <Tom_itx> wtf is up with the interweb lately
[17:38:21] <Tom_itx> google haysville ks to see another good one
[17:38:26] <Tom_itx> haysville / andover
[17:38:46] <Tom_itx> iirc that one was on the ground for around an hour
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[17:50:58] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: yes?
[17:51:41] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: did you ever get submicro up and running?
[17:52:23] <Tom_itx> ok. stepper time
[17:52:35] <cncbasher> not yet john
[17:52:58] <cncbasher> the guy in newcastle , got his working ok
[17:53:57] <cncbasher> i noticed submicro started a new thread or no steppers running
[17:54:06] <cncbasher> rather than stick with the first
[17:55:10] <cncbasher> i can't see a problem with the hal , although i notce he has no switches
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[17:55:54] <cncbasher> configured , so presume he cant initialise and home etc
[17:56:09] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, is that stepper test part of the ncfile examples?
[17:56:39] <Tom_itx> meh, i don't see it there
[17:57:06] <JT-Shop> I don't think so it is in the manual
[17:57:17] <JT-Shop> the Getting Started Manual
[17:57:31] <Tom_itx> what parameters am i gonna be tuning with?
[17:58:19] <Tom_itx> max_velocity and max_acceleration?
[17:59:57] <The_Ball> My internet has been really bad, I asked a question and don't know if anybody answered...: There's a treadmill dc motor for sale which is 3.5HP, 180V DC, any issues using that for a spindle motor?
[18:03:41] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yes
[18:12:17] <IchGuckLive> someone nowes the place wher to change the isolation around the pads in EAGLE
[18:13:51] <Tom_itx> it's part of the settings
[18:14:41] <IchGuckLive> net classes ?
[18:14:49] <IchGuckLive> or design rules
[18:14:58] <Tom_itx> design rules i believe
[18:15:21] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:15:33] <Tom_itx> there's all sorts of settings you can fiddle with there
[18:16:21] <Tom_itx> are you talking about the mask or the distance between copper?
[18:17:55] <Tom_itx> you should probably save it with an optional name if you change it
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[18:23:27] <IchGuckLive> the netclas clearence is the key
[18:30:17] <IchGuckLive> Question for milling PCB on a Vacum Plate is it enove to get vacuum out of a Positiv negativ vent ?
[18:31:19] <Tom_itx> rephrase that
[18:31:35] <IchGuckLive> lets say 40psi into the PN-Vent
[18:32:48] <Tom_itx> not sure what pn-vent is
[18:33:08] <Tom_itx> vacuum is measured in inches of mercury though
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[18:34:32] <IchGuckLive> is there festo also in the usa or is there a different Neumatic supply ?
[18:34:36] <Tom_itx> you could also use double back tape
[18:35:37] <skunkworks> some sort of syphon device? fast moving air causes a vaccum? (sort of like a venturi?)
[18:35:46] <Tom_itx> i would set the board against 3 dowel pins for alignment and stick it down with double sideed tape
[18:36:02] <Tom_itx> we used a vacuum pump
[18:36:23] <JT-Shop> I use Piab for vacuum
[18:36:25] <skunkworks> I have had good luck with a vaccum pump - but ours is a 1hp vane type - works freat
[18:36:37] <Tom_itx> but we were milling large surface area aluminum parts
[18:36:38] <skunkworks> great even
[18:36:49] <Tom_itx> and used neoprene rope as a seal
[18:37:07] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: has a vacuum cliner thats very noicy
[18:37:09] <Tom_itx> noisy as hell but yeah they work great
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[18:38:01] <Tom_itx> the tape would be a cheap alternative
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[18:38:26] <Tom_itx> and once again the interweb wins again
[18:39:27] <Loetmichel> *sigh*
[18:39:38] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, do you happen to have that stepper tuning page handy again pls?
[18:39:41] <Loetmichel> i dont think the Festool is very loud
[18:39:57] <Loetmichel> but like microsoft produicts: it SUCKS ;-)
[18:40:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/vakuumFEST.avi
[18:40:17] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[18:40:17] <Tom_itx> i would hope it did suck
[18:40:36] <Tom_itx> it should suck alot
[18:40:58] <Loetmichel> yes, very much ;-)
[18:41:25] <Loetmichel> enough that i didn' neet do cover the free parts of the vacuum plate
[18:41:39] <Loetmichel> didn't need
[18:41:54] <Tom_itx> keep in mind, if you use coolant it will suck that into the pump as well
[18:42:45] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: the top plate on my vacuum table is from MDF (WAS wood, fine fibres pressed with heat)
[18:43:00] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html
[18:43:09] <Tom_itx> ty sir
[18:44:22] <Loetmichel> so: no coolant or the plate will triple in thickness ;-)
[18:44:31] <Tom_itx> and fall apart
[18:44:36] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:45:19] <Loetmichel> but to mill carbon and glass fibre and wood and Engrave pcbs you dont need coolant ;-)
[18:46:10] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: the great point on the MDF: its open to Air, so no drilling neccesary(sp?) ;-)
[18:46:36] <Loetmichel> the inside of the Plate: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8211
[18:46:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8214
[18:46:44] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8217
[18:47:22] <Loetmichel> all made out of 3mm FR2
[18:48:17] <Loetmichel> (Phenol + paper)
[18:50:09] <cradek> what is it?
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[18:52:12] <Loetmichel> cradek: a vacuum plate witrh 1000mm*600mm
[18:52:19] <Loetmichel> look the video
[18:52:28] <Loetmichel> [20:39:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/vakuumFEST.avi
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[19:11:58] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, i can't run the step conf wizzard on the mesa ini files
[19:12:11] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[19:12:23] <Tom_itx> or i woudl
[19:12:28] <JT-Shop> no
[19:12:50] <JT-Shop> why do you say that?
[19:14:33] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: you mean.. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_pncconf.html ?
[19:16:17] <Tom_itx> i figured i'd run it to see how the numbers came out
[19:16:54] <Tom_itx> not knowing the purpose of each parameter in the file
[19:17:15] <Tom_itx> or the units of them
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[19:19:36] <jdhNC> I got a 7i43 the other day, is there a good starting point in the docs I should look at?
[19:21:26] <Tom_itx> follow my log trail :D
[19:22:01] <Tom_itx> did you get one with 200 or 400 gates?
[19:22:01] <jdhNC> you should write it up :)
[19:22:05] <Tom_itx> naw
[19:22:08] <jdhNC> 200
[19:22:26] <Tom_itx> you'll want the '7i43-small.ini file
[19:23:27] <jdhNC> I have lots of time, I'm saving it for my G0704 that may or may not show up
[19:23:57] <Tom_itx> i'm using an old driver until i get my g203v's
[19:24:12] <jdhNC> I got a 7i37TA also, I assume I shouldn't use it for the steppers though
[19:24:29] <Tom_itx> an io card?
[19:24:57] <Tom_itx> i got the 47 but am using it for gpio instead of rs422
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[19:25:00] <jdhNC> it's a daughter/breakout board with terminals strips
[19:25:12] <Tom_itx> why not use it for steppers?
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[19:25:41] <jdhNC> looks more useful for io, isolated, 48vdc, etc.
[19:25:53] <jdhNC> I got a 47 also but don't remember why
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[19:26:04] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:26:15] <jdhNC> and ai34
[19:26:19] <jdhNC> err.. 7i34
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[19:26:56] <Tom_itx> i may either make or get an isolation card for the other header
[19:27:35] <jdhNC> the 47 is made for step/dir & encoders?
[19:28:03] <Tom_itx> i'm using it for all my io
[19:28:58] <jdhNC> the 37 has 16 in, 8 out, high current, isolated
[19:29:22] <jdhNC> and terminal strips.
[19:29:52] <jdhNC> I have a bunch of 50 pin terminal boards with 50pin cables
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[19:33:54] <jdhNC> it's too bad servo+drive+encoder costs so much
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[19:39:04] <skunkworks> jdhNC: it really isn't that bad if you go used
[19:39:35] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, that config wiz won't let me enter step gens
[19:39:47] <Tom_itx> it will allow pwm gens
[19:39:49] <jdhNC> perhaps, but I don't know enough about them to be able to buy used with confidence
[19:40:39] <mrsunshine_> operation move super X1 Y axis leadscrew =)
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[19:42:15] <mrsunshine_> cool, there is 8x12x3.5 bearings =)
[19:43:00] <mrsunshine_> but i need angular contact as i want to squeeze the leadscrew between two bearings to minimize it moving
[19:43:27] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: I have not used it.. You might want to ask on the mailing list. the guy how has been developing it is on there
[19:43:43] <Tom_itx> i'll spend the time in the ini file instead
[19:43:51] <Tom_itx> it's pretty close
[19:44:20] <Tom_itx> a page defining the setup parameters would be helpful
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[19:47:07] <mrsunshine_> how are deep groove bearings at axial loads?
[19:48:29] <ssi> mrsunshine_: cheap radials + cheap thrust bearings works pretty well :)
[19:48:32] <jdhNC> I have some radial bearings with thrust bearings on either side. Not as good as angular contact, but free.
[19:48:36] <archivist> the SKF databook has some info on life under that type of load
[19:48:40] <mrsunshine_> ssi, i hate combinations :P
[19:48:46] <ssi> I hate spending money
[19:48:57] <mrsunshine_> heh :P
[19:49:07] <mrsunshine_> ssi, well i like quality over cheap realy :P
[19:49:13] <mrsunshine_> as its going to sit there for a long time =)
[19:49:13] <JT-Shop> I hate making money it takes up all my time
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[19:49:19] <jdhNC> me too, when someone else is paying
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[19:49:32] <ssi> JT-Shop: amen, brotha
[19:49:56] * JT-Shop goes back to the printing press
[19:50:03] <mrsunshine_> ofc, i could do it in two steps, slightly undersize the axle at so it can move in a radial bearing, then the end hits a axial bearing, housed in the same assembly i could use the outer bearing as a particle shield :P
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[19:50:29] <mrsunshine_> angular contact becomes so big :/
[19:50:32] <mrsunshine_> 10mm inner, 30mm outer
[19:50:41] <mrsunshine_> so i guess a combo has to be it :(
[19:50:55] <alex_joni> Jymmm: around?
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[19:51:28] <ssi> I think I have everything I need to cut the shank end of some TTS holders tonight
[19:51:30] <ssi> program's written
[19:51:39] <ssi> finally have a tool that'll cut the clearance groove in the spindle face
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[19:51:51] <mrsunshine_> ofc, best would be axial + radial + o-ring
[19:52:09] <mrsunshine_> to realy get its full potential over a long run :P
[19:52:29] <mrsunshine_> o-ring -> oil seal
[19:53:11] <mrsunshine_> tho i cant fit a stupid oil seal :/ to big
[19:53:26] <mrsunshine_> hmm
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[20:06:33] <mrsunshine_> gah could use a grinder and a lathe right about now ... how the heck do you cut 8mm rod about 10cm long out from the chuck ? :/
[20:06:43] <mrsunshine_> rough turn it then grind it the rest?
[20:07:09] <JT-Shop> following rest
[20:09:24] <jdhNC> steady rest?
[20:10:03] <jdhNC> another chuck on the other end of the way
[20:10:49] <mrsunshine_> never used following rests etc :/
[20:12:09] <jdhNC> was it a green usb converter?
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[20:17:01] <JT-Shop> centerless grinder works too
[20:20:10] <JT-Shop> pause/resume button works nice on the CHNC :)
[20:20:22] <Tom_itx> i noticed those
[20:21:03] <Tom_itx> i should add some to the pendant
[20:21:18] <JT-Shop> took me a year to figure it out but I never did a chap on the forum found something a chap in europe had done and I fixed it so it stays in sync with Axis
[20:23:35] <Tom_itx> too much 'cleaning' being done around here atm for me to get anything done
[20:26:30] <JT-Shop> crap, tornado watch to the south of us
[20:26:48] <Tom_itx> just keep it over there is all i ask
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[20:27:09] <skunkworks> we had a tornado run through lacrosse. (very small one...)
[20:27:28] <skunkworks> no one got hurt as far as I know
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[20:28:00] <Tom_itx> i've seen some pretty tall 'dust devils' in the fields around here too
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[21:07:43] <FinboySlick> I'm all bummed out. I had some pretty consistant > 7000us jitter when I tested this box with the livecd. Not so after the install. Enabling APIC in the bios makes things better. I'm pealing off the wiki but if anyone has hints I'd be grateful.
[21:14:43] <skunkworks> what is the jitter after install?
[21:15:10] <FinboySlick> about 18000
[21:15:53] <FinboySlick> There was a cheapo onboard RAID controller that really killed things so I disabled that, disabled audio, etc.
[21:16:12] <e3m> hello my new retrofit: http://frezowanie-toczenie-cnc.pl/cnc/
[21:17:03] <FinboySlick> skunkworks: there's an nvidia card in there, but I'm using nouveau... It was there when I tested off of the livecd too.
[21:21:41] <FinboySlick> I think I have a PCI G200 somewhere, I guess I could try that.
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[21:26:19] <FinboySlick> Oh boy, I started 'Appearance' to see if I could improve fonts and I jumped to 200000
[21:27:56] <micges> FinboySlick: dod you disable hyperthreading in bios?
[21:32:35] <FinboySlick> micges: Athlon XP 3200. No hyperthreading that I'm aware of.
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[22:05:19] <JT-Shop> FinboySlick: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
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[22:41:13] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Hmmm... I gess my results aren't all that bad considering. I just wish there was something a tad more methodical. Some sort of monitoring that would compare jitter spikes to interrupt calls or what not.
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[22:43:59] <JT-Shop> there is a strip chart one
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[23:05:12] <sarmeast> Need help trying to find a stepper motor.
[23:05:52] <sarmeast> I need something that's bipolar and has a current per phase of 2 amps.
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[23:16:44] <JT-Shop> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[23:17:47] <JT-Shop> rather http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motion_Control/Stepper_Systems/Motors_-z-_Cables
[23:19:26] <ssi> I'm having a hard time debugging this code I'm writing, because it seems like maybe it has an infinite loop in it
[23:19:34] <ssi> and emc doesn't handle it gracefully... it just hangs
[23:21:30] <JT-Shop> not much handles infinite loops well
[23:22:02] <SWPadnos> how could it tell before the end of time? :)
[23:22:04] <ssi> a language parser can be made to fairly trivially
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[23:22:51] <SWPadnos> no, it can't
[23:23:23] <JT-Shop> how can a language know your intent?
[23:25:05] <ssi> sigh
[23:25:08] <ssi> forget I said anything
[23:26:25] <ssi> http://tinyurl.com/3c9qt6y and all
[23:26:35] <ssi> now back to the impossible debugging session
[23:27:45] <SWPadnos> well, it may be possible to prove that certain functions *are* infinite loops, but it isn't possible to prove that a function *isn't* an infinite loop
[23:28:28] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
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[23:32:06] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, out of curiosity what made your halt/run buttons hard to dial in?
[23:32:25] <Tom_itx> pause / run
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[23:41:05] <FinboySlick> Okay, I got it down to a pretty steady < 6500 *unless* I go to the appearance control panel. So I'm guessing what's left is random video card burps.
[23:41:12] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: there are a couple of gotcha's with pause/run
[23:41:52] <JT-Shop> one is what to do and that is fairly straight forward... if running and button pressed pause... if paused and button pressed resume
[23:42:14] <JT-Shop> the hard one was the racetrack condition when the button is pressed
[23:43:06] <JT-Shop> Anders Wallin had a nice bit of code for that part... I just added the first part to his part and have a very well behaved pause/run button on the CHNC now
[23:43:57] <JT-Shop> the key I missed was toglle2nist http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/toggle2nist.9.html
[23:44:06] <JT-Shop> toggle2nist
[23:44:35] <JT-Shop> FinboySlick: let it run a while to be sure
[23:46:07] <JT-Shop> toggle2nist is one that I never understood and there is 0 documentation on it to explain what it does so I promptly forgot about it
[23:46:34] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Yeah.
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[23:48:40] <JT-Shop> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/components/toggle2nist.comp;h=db40037a1158d9d5af13bce3c67b67210792d23e;hb=HEAD
[23:49:29] <JT-Shop> no wonder awallin knows how it works he wrote it lol
[23:53:39] <Tom_itx> undocumented code is like no code at all
[23:54:46] <JT-Shop> can you make any sense of the comp?
[23:56:26] <JT-Shop> I think this is the key /* reset pins when we see the desired state */
[23:56:27] <JT-Shop> on will be only on for 1 or 2 cycles at the most
[23:56:27] <Tom_itx> if it doesn't match, find the state and toggle it
[23:56:52] <Tom_itx> that's the else condition
[23:56:57] <Tom_itx> if there wasn't a toggle
[23:57:19] <Tom_itx> if in != old_in... else
[23:57:33] <Tom_itx> the else is that in = old_in
[23:58:22] <Tom_itx> and if in that case it is on, turn it off
[23:58:41] <JT-Shop> I'll attempt to add some comments to it in the AM
[23:58:48] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:58:59] <Tom_itx> that code is relatively easy to follow
[23:59:05] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:59:36] <Tom_itx> it's the 'where it applies' that needs comments
[23:59:40] <JT-Shop> I think the is_on is the key to this working like it does