#emc | Logs for 2011-05-21

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[03:20:36] <Tom_itx> ok at least i'm getting step and dir out the board
[03:20:52] <Tom_itx> gotta figure out this old driver box a bit more
[03:21:39] <Tom_itx> i can see the accel and decel on the pulse train start and end
[03:23:04] <Tom_itx> 40Ás pulse sound about right?
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[12:13:09] <nullie> Hello. I have Micro V3 gantry, it uses 2 motors for X axis. Something wrong with the config, only one motor works when I try to home X axis
[12:14:17] <jthornton> how did you connect the two motors?
[12:14:55] <nullie> they are on different axis of controller
[12:16:31] <nullie> config has something to connect two axii, but somehow it doesn't seem to work
[12:17:09] <nullie> setp gantrykins.joint-6 0
[12:18:17] <jthornton> when you jog only one motor moves?
[12:18:28] <nullie> yes
[12:19:23] <jthornton> did you use stepper-gantry configuration as your starting point?
[12:19:56] <nullie> I use config from lumenlabs site
[12:21:19] <jthornton> link?
[12:21:44] <nullie> http://www.lumenlab.com/d/sites/default/files/V3.NoHome.emc2_.4.tar
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[12:25:11] <jthornton> how is the physical wiring done? one plug, many wires?
[12:25:57] <jthornton> #this is a beta release .hal file for micRo v3 with syncRo v3 and home switches
[12:25:59] <jthornton> #please report any problems to support@lumenlab.com or www.lumenlab.com/forums
[12:26:00] <nullie> wiring is ok, when I attach different axis to this output, it works
[12:26:29] * fragalot has always wondered how 2 stepper motors could cooperate alongside eachother without the use of an encoder :/
[12:27:11] <cpresser> basically not a problem, as long as you dont loose steps :)
[12:27:15] <Loetmichel> fragalot: not a problem
[12:27:27] <fragalot> not even in it's initial "I have nfc where I am" state?
[12:27:47] <Loetmichel> but you should have a connection between the two with at least 2 steps "slack"
[12:28:01] <fragalot> Loetmichel: figured as much
[12:28:08] <jthornton> nullie: when you connect a different motor to X2 it works?
[12:28:43] <Loetmichel> fragalot: made it this way on my last machine:
[12:29:27] <Loetmichel> (searcehing the fotos, moment)
[12:29:34] <fragalot> jthornton: I think he means when he configures another axis to use that motor it works
[12:29:37] <fragalot> Loetmichel: k
[12:29:42] <nullie> jthornton, no, when I change config to connect Z to X2 output, that motor works
[12:29:48] * fragalot wins
[12:30:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7068
[12:30:10] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7071
[12:30:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7074
[12:30:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7080
[12:30:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7086
[12:30:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7083
[12:30:43] <fragalot> That is.. uhm. shiny.
[12:31:17] * jthornton reads back and wonders about this line in the ini file this is a beta release .ini file for micRo v3 with no home switches
[12:31:33] <fragalot> Loetmichel: is that with 2 steppers, or 1 stepper & 2 drive shafts?
[12:31:41] <Loetmichel> 2 steppers
[12:32:03] <Loetmichel> but on the same output pins
[12:32:10] <nullie> hm
[12:32:19] <fragalot> right
[12:33:20] <nullie> oh, I found the problem
[12:33:41] <nullie> "If in the View tab, you have the Joint Mode toggled on, when you try to move the X axis by clicking/holding the (+) or (-), only one of the X stepper motors will run, causing the Y carriage to misalign"
[12:33:44] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4591 <- same machine front
[12:33:53] <fragalot> nullie: >.< oops
[12:34:29] <fragalot> Loetmichel: i'm assuming there are bits missing under the machine table? (looks like it'd flex a lot otherwise :p)
[12:34:59] <Loetmichel> ?
[12:35:01] <Loetmichel> no
[12:35:04] <fragalot> that aluminium slab
[12:35:13] <fragalot> looks like it spans quite a large distance :/
[12:35:30] <Loetmichel> 1500*1020*160mm travel
[12:35:47] * cpresser was thinking the same. doesnt it bend to much under its own weight?
[12:36:02] <Loetmichel> fragalot: the machine table inside: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4053
[12:36:05] <fragalot> I just expected the table to bow a little bit on an unsupported span that long
[12:36:14] <Loetmichel> there is NO flexing!
[12:36:14] <fragalot> Aah, so it IS supported.
[12:36:37] <Loetmichel> not even a thou
[12:36:54] <fragalot> the machine I bought (tiny desktop) doesn't flex either... but it's got shitloads of play & a .2mm misalignment to compensate for that.
[12:36:57] <fragalot> >.>
[12:38:47] <Loetmichel> that are aboput 300kg if a Plywood called "siebdruckplatte", which is like "normal plywood" but more thinner sheets of wood and a resin as adhesive, not wood glue
[12:39:36] <Loetmichel> so the "wood" is water resistant and doesent gets thicker if in contact with water
[12:39:44] <fragalot> what cpresser and me were talking about was the (looks like) aluminium in the top left of the picture you linked earlier
[12:39:59] <Loetmichel> which one?
[12:40:05] <fragalot> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4591
[12:40:20] <Loetmichel> HIHI
[12:40:24] <fragalot> :P
[12:40:26] <Loetmichel> that was the workpiece
[12:40:37] <Loetmichel> the machine stats at the stepper motors
[12:40:37] <fragalot> makes sense, lol
[12:40:43] <cpresser> :D
[12:41:00] <Loetmichel> 12mm thick sheet 2900mm*900mm carbon fibre
[12:41:44] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4588 <- better look at it
[12:41:46] <fragalot> Nice, heard those things are damn hard to find
[12:41:51] <cpresser> its quite interesting to see that different people all use a similar technique when working with huge parts. i also shift my workpieces along the x-axis throught te mill :)
[12:41:57] <Loetmichel> was the first workpiece for this machine
[12:42:30] <fragalot> cpresser: Is there another technique on a gantry mill?
[12:42:43] <cpresser> not one i am aware of
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[12:43:01] <cpresser> perhaps gettin a bigger mill :)
[12:43:01] <fragalot> last huge parts I saw people work on on my summer job was along the Y axis... not that that makes any difference at all, lol
[12:43:09] <fragalot> cpresser: or a hexapod mill!
[12:43:10] <fragalot> :3
[12:43:36] <Loetmichel> that was a machin i buildt for my last employer
[12:43:37] <syyl_> or a mobile mill, which can be mounted on the part to be machined
[12:43:38] <syyl_> :)
[12:43:50] <cpresser> similar setup: http://ca.rstenpresser.de/~cpresser/tmp/pictures/unsorted/aussenwerbung/fertigung.jpg
[12:43:51] <Loetmichel> now i have only left my little one
[12:43:56] <fragalot> syyl_: the hexapod i'm referring to is a mobile one :P
[12:44:02] <fragalot> it just walks around & mills stuff..
[12:44:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11450
[12:44:22] <syyl_> yeah, but thats not what i call a serious setup :D
[12:44:54] <syyl_> in flames? :D
[12:44:54] <Loetmichel> carsten: where in germany you are from?
[12:45:13] <cpresser> Loetmichel: north of the saarland
[12:45:16] <cpresser> you?
[12:45:23] <Loetmichel> Offenbach am main
[12:45:57] <cpresser> only about 2hours to drive. i am a regular customer at 'batschkapp' in offenbach to attend metal concerts :)
[12:46:05] <Loetmichel> hihi
[12:46:33] <Loetmichel> i know that. 'cause my apprentice plays in a band there sometimes ;-)
[12:47:19] <syyl_> ah
[12:47:30] <syyl_> also got a picture of a large workpiece, different setup :P
[12:47:32] <syyl_> http://gtwr.de/fp2.jpg
[12:47:56] * Loetmichel is working at a cheap mill series. should have about 600*400*120mm travel and i want to sell it for less than 1000 eurs ready for Plug into the PC and go
[12:48:27] <fragalot> Loetmichel: Neat. What materials can it take?
[12:48:29] <Loetmichel> syyl_: what do you do in the middle of the piece?
[12:48:37] <syyl_> nothing
[12:48:39] <syyl_> :P
[12:48:43] <jthornton> what "turns on" joint mode/world mode in the view menu of Axis?
[12:48:46] <Loetmichel> fragalot: like all my mills: depends on your time
[12:49:13] <Loetmichel> even stel is possible, but only with about 1/10mm steps in z
[12:49:16] <fragalot> Loetmichel: heh.. I know mine can't do yellow copper (fixed 28k rpm 350W spindle)
[12:49:17] <syyl_> or just go over to one of the datron machines
[12:49:18] <Loetmichel> steel
[12:49:20] <syyl_> :P
[12:49:38] <Loetmichel> fragalot: jellow copper?
[12:49:57] <Loetmichel> you mean Brass?
[12:50:04] <fragalot> it's a type of brass alloy
[12:50:16] <syyl_> ah
[12:50:54] <syyl_> not like the normal, brittle brass?
[12:51:03] <fragalot> it's much harder
[12:51:05] <Loetmichel> fragalot: here a video of doing Aluminium 99,9 (o4r whatever Alfer uses for its tubes):
[12:51:23] <fragalot> iirc it's only forgeable when hot
[12:51:50] <syyl_> there are a lot of brass and copper alloys that can ruin your day :D
[12:52:19] <Loetmichel> grrr..,. searchein again
[12:53:23] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/jumpjetkopterteile1.avi <- found
[12:53:36] <fragalot> syyl_: especially when your spindle is fixed at 28k rpm
[12:53:42] <syyl_> hehe
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[12:54:08] <fragalot> and there's no cover so coolant sprays everywhere :P (my original intention was to only use the machine for engraving)
[12:54:28] <syyl_> tried a spray mister?
[12:54:32] <Loetmichel> fragalot: do you have a photo of your machine?
[12:55:22] <fragalot> syyl_: only have those things: http://www.rvspaleis.nl/6073-10801-large/snijolie.jpg
[12:55:30] <fragalot> Loetmichel: SOMEWHERE... :P hold on
[12:55:48] <syyl_> hihi
[12:56:15] <syyl_> try a mister, with aluminum and copper, thats a large improvement
[12:56:25] <fragalot> http://ompldr.org/vN3dwaw
[12:57:03] <Loetmichel> fragalot: hihi, CUUUTE ;-)
[12:57:03] <syyl_> cute :D
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[12:57:06] <fragalot> syyl_: I don't really plan on doing much more than .05mm thick copper sheets ontop of fibreglass anyway really :P
[12:57:16] <syyl_> oh
[12:57:18] <syyl_> ok :D
[12:57:21] <Loetmichel> but: that seems to be a normal Wood router motor
[12:57:39] <Loetmichel> you CAN use a normal "dimmer" ther
[12:57:41] <Loetmichel> there
[12:57:50] <Loetmichel> to change the speed
[12:57:52] <fragalot> Loetmichel: Yeah. Shame that it's crap though :P Need to spend some time to see if I can fix the play on the Z axis along the X-axis, and the misalignment along the Y axis in the Z direction
[12:58:08] <fragalot> Loetmichel: I thought about trying that but wasn't too sure if it'd work
[12:58:14] <Loetmichel> just have to be a one which can cope with Haloge Transformators
[12:59:59] <fragalot> I'll give that a go at some point then
[13:00:10] <fragalot> first i'd like to see it properly aligned etc
[13:00:32] <Loetmichel> fragalot: any motor with brushes can be regulated by phase angle
[13:01:11] <fragalot> the Z moves along the X axis by as much as 1mm when drilling >.<
[13:01:32] <fragalot> it's a bit much, considering it's costed me 1200 euro
[13:02:33] <cpresser> 1mm definitely is to much. does this depend on the plunge-rate while drilling?
[13:03:03] * cpresser had some issues when the touch-off-speed was to high.
[13:03:14] <fragalot> not much, no
[13:03:56] <fragalot> the minute you counter the axis' weight it moves. it just hinges on it's bearings I think... hoping to see a loose bolt or something like that when I get 'round to opening it up
[13:04:07] <fragalot> then put something under the table to tilt it a little bit so it's aligned well..
[13:04:45] <Loetmichel> fragalot: i am working on the cheap series for about 3 jears now
[13:04:52] <Loetmichel> time flies ;-)
[13:05:00] <fragalot> haha :P
[13:05:09] <fragalot> I think i've had that machine for nearly a year now
[13:05:22] <fragalot> never had the time to fix it :/
[13:05:51] <Loetmichel> momentary state:
[13:05:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8872
[13:05:57] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8875
[13:06:03] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[13:06:13] <Loetmichel> need to get the portal buildt
[13:06:25] <Loetmichel> and then the electronics
[13:06:31] <fragalot> again. shiny.
[13:06:50] <fragalot> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884 <= is it me, or does the top of this one look a little bit... off
[13:06:54] <Loetmichel> s/portal/gantry
[13:07:12] <fragalot> closest to you, top part looks like it's bowed a little bit
[13:07:40] <Loetmichel> yes, but that was fixed by banging on it-> ther was a segment of the walls not "clicked" into the grooves cut into the top plate
[13:07:48] <fragalot> haha ok
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[13:08:41] <Loetmichel> the design is like "lego"
[13:08:47] <Loetmichel> you can see it here:
[13:09:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=359
[13:09:11] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=320
[13:09:16] <fragalot> o.O
[13:09:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=335
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[13:09:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=323
[13:09:39] <Loetmichel> it just clicks in place
[13:10:03] <Loetmichel> but the glass fibre plates were to expensive so i switched to Plywood
[13:10:16] <fragalot> yeah was just going to ask you where you got those from lol
[13:10:37] * Loetmichel worked at a company for model planes
[13:10:51] <Loetmichel> so i sat at the well
[13:10:53] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:11:03] <fragalot> explanes (lol) the X shapes for the inserts :P
[13:11:34] <Loetmichel> that are just weight reduction
[13:11:53] <fragalot> yeh but most people cut an O out of it
[13:12:19] <Loetmichel> <- playful constructer ;-)
[13:12:22] <fragalot> :P
[13:13:45] <Loetmichel> if you look at my helicopters you will see that i have a thing for lattice beams ;-)
[13:14:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11789
[13:14:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8244
[13:14:56] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[13:22:29] <fragalot> Ooo I almost forgot I mounted a laser to my machine & haven't yet modified my breakout board for it
[13:22:34] <fragalot> ... I'll do that later xD
[13:23:08] <fragalot> Loetmichel: why squares and not trangles in that 'copter for the beams? :P
[13:23:38] <Loetmichel> squares?
[13:23:48] <Loetmichel> that are trapezoids
[13:24:01] <Loetmichel> and that wasnt one if my sharpest ideas
[13:24:28] <Loetmichel> the new ones are beck to triangles
[13:24:29] <fragalot> Loetmichel: they're square lattice beams aren't they?
[13:24:37] <Loetmichel> ah
[13:25:00] <fragalot> Exactly :p
[13:25:06] <Loetmichel> 'cause triangle tubes a not buyabele
[13:25:29] <fragalot> shame :/ it could reduce weight without altering the structural strength too much
[13:25:33] <Loetmichel> but square rubes are in every hardware store
[13:25:46] <Loetmichel> for cheap
[13:26:00] <fragalot> local stores here are crap
[13:26:02] <Loetmichel> i thoght you meant the cutouts
[13:26:12] <fragalot> even the RC shops.. most don't even stock simple servo's
[13:26:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8238&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- THIS coutouts were to much and trapezoid
[13:27:15] <Loetmichel> one hard "landing" and the beams look like this:
[13:27:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8626
[13:28:04] <Loetmichel> so i am back to this:
[13:28:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11741
[13:28:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11753&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[13:28:56] <Tom_itx> temper the material after machining
[13:29:10] <Tom_itx> i bet the square tubing is pretty soft when you buy it
[13:29:31] <Loetmichel> its nearly 99,99% aluminium
[13:29:44] <Tom_itx> alum can be tempered too ya know
[13:29:49] <Loetmichel> ist soft as hell and smears on the drillbit ;-)
[13:30:06] <Tom_itx> it's "O" material
[13:30:13] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: to much hassle for a "consumable"
[13:30:19] <Tom_itx> you need T3 or T5 etc
[13:30:23] <Tom_itx> not really
[13:30:36] <Tom_itx> they might not be so consumable if you did
[13:30:52] <fragalot> Loetmichel: Aah you buy square tubes & then cut the pattern yourself... makes sense when you said "any hardware store" now :P
[13:30:53] <Loetmichel> the beams on the copters are like the Propellers something you have in spare on the Airfield ;-)
[13:31:05] <Tom_itx> heat them up in your oven and quench them
[13:31:13] <Tom_itx> read about hardening aluminum
[13:31:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11744 <- fragalot
[13:32:48] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: 'cause at the evening after a full day of flight you WILL have some bend and broken ;-)
[13:33:11] <fragalot> Loetmichel: you might not have that if you temper them.
[13:33:31] <Loetmichel> and the good part is: the beams absorb the energy, so the electronix in the mittle stays ok
[13:33:31] <Tom_itx> he don't believe me
[13:34:10] <Loetmichel> i believe you, but its cheaper to change some 5 eur beams than a 300 eur Electronics
[13:34:11] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:34:26] <fragalot> for 300 euro they should be able to take a beating :P
[13:35:37] <Loetmichel> fragalot: no
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[13:35:55] <fragalot> :s
[13:36:03] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11486 <- especially HAD "landling"
[13:36:24] <Loetmichel> that is wha i build the hexa on the last pictures
[13:36:24] <fragalot> generally when I make electronics if the cost goes above 100 euro you should be able to throw it out of a building & have it survive :/
[13:36:43] <Loetmichel> the electronics and motos were send to me fom a frustrated friend
[13:36:49] <fragalot> that looks... fairly crappy lol
[13:36:51] <Loetmichel> that WAS an octocopter
[13:37:33] <fragalot> Loetmichel: the electronics boards look like they wuld have survived if a) they used different capacitors that aren't that tall, b) were mounted on a better casing
[13:37:36] <Loetmichel> i was able te revivive the center electronics and 7 of 8 brusless controllers
[13:37:45] <Loetmichel> so i buildt him a hexacopter
[13:38:05] <fragalot> should 've been a septacopter :P
[13:38:17] <Loetmichel> the frame broke so the Bruslesscontrollers bent
[13:38:17] <Tom_itx> and if you want to get into exotic metal treatment look into cryogenics
[13:38:24] <Loetmichel> fragalot: not possible
[13:38:40] <fragalot> Loetmichel: Sure it is. just need better firmware
[13:38:48] <Loetmichel> yopu have to have teh same count of right turning and left tuning rotors
[13:38:54] <Loetmichel> no, physics
[13:39:05] <fragalot> Aah right
[13:39:29] <fragalot> you could counter that by tilting a few in certain angles, no?
[13:39:33] <Loetmichel> sto the torque cancles itself out
[13:39:42] <Loetmichel> one could
[13:39:47] <Loetmichel> but not me
[13:39:48] <fragalot> possible.
[13:39:49] <fragalot> :3
[13:39:53] <Loetmichel> not much of a programmer here
[13:40:00] <Loetmichel> to change the firmware for it
[13:43:36] <Tom_L> http://www.secowarwick.com/htdb/htdb.htm
[13:43:43] <Tom_L> heat treating data book
[13:44:20] <Tom_itx> P.27
[13:45:19] <syyl_> oh
[13:45:22] <syyl_> thats free?
[13:45:28] <Tom_itx> OH!!
[13:45:40] <Tom_itx> ebook is
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[13:45:45] <syyl_> nice
[13:46:00] * cpresser also saved the pdf :)
[13:46:16] <Tom_itx> i figured a few 'smart ones' might :D
[13:46:48] <Tom_itx> i just found it so i don't actually know how useful it is
[13:47:20] <cpresser> unfortunately, the naming '2000 alloy' is not used in germany
[13:47:31] <syyl_> yes :\
[13:47:36] <Tom_itx> i doubt the industry is gonna give out proprietary information on their refined processes
[13:47:39] <syyl_> but the surrounding information is usefull
[13:48:07] * Loetmichel has to buy food now
[13:48:13] <Loetmichel> brb
[13:48:41] <Tom_itx> cpresser, that might be found in the machinery's handbook
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[13:48:58] <cpresser> Tom_itx: that is what i am currently seraching for...
[13:48:59] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure if it lists the acutal chemical makup of the alloys
[13:49:11] <Tom_itx> it should
[13:49:41] <syyl_> you coul also get the datasheet for your steel/alloy
[13:49:46] <Tom_itx> 6061 is a common alloy
[13:50:01] <syyl_> that normaly lists heat threating
[13:50:06] <Tom_itx> high silicon content
[13:50:19] <mozmck> What is a good laptop for linux with enough power to run VirtualBox well. The larger the screen/higher resolution the better.
[13:52:02] <Tom_itx> syyl_, steels start on P38
[13:52:55] <cpresser> found it: AW-6061 is a MgSi alloy. The EN754 name is "AlMg1SiCu"
[13:53:59] <syyl_> almg1sicu is here the more common name
[13:54:18] <cpresser> according to the 'tabellenbuch metall'
[13:54:30] <cpresser> its not the best choice for milling and turning
[13:54:35] <Spida> mozmck: depends on what you want to do with it
[13:54:43] <syyl_> the allmighty bible of the machinist :D
[13:55:09] * cpresser has three of these books :P
[13:55:11] <Tom_itx> no but it's better than some
[13:55:42] <Tom_itx> 70xx is pretty good stuff too
[13:55:45] <syyl_> i prefer free cutting alloys, with lead
[13:55:48] <Tom_itx> 75xx
[13:56:11] <syyl_> short chips, easy to machine and stong enough in most cases
[13:56:14] <mozmck> spida: development mostly. I use Eclipse a bit, which is huge and slow like most java stuff. VirtualBox with windows for some dev work I have to do.
[13:56:48] <cpresser> since i get most aluminium i mill out of other peoples junk boxes, i dont really care what alloy it is
[13:57:04] <syyl_> hehe
[13:57:11] <Tom_itx> if you found a crappy one you would
[13:57:33] <syyl_> or get something like a alumium bronce
[13:57:41] <syyl_> looks like alumium, machines like hell :D
[13:57:54] <Tom_itx> aluminum bronze?
[13:58:40] <Tom_itx> interesting stuff
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[13:58:54] <syyl_> pretty tough bearing material
[13:59:04] <syyl_> some look like brass, some like alumium
[14:00:10] <Spida> mozmck: it helps if the cpu has virtualization support (VT), and you have neough ram for both systems simultaneuosly... if eclipse is in the deal, that most certainly means 4GB ram or more.
[14:00:58] <anonimasu> cpresser: if it's critical that you have the same throw it at a lab to analyze whatever that material is
[14:01:05] <Spida> mozmck: more cores help, too
[14:01:39] <mozmck> Spida: that helps. What about hardware support in linux? are there brands that are better? I've heard a lot of good about Lenovo, but not much linux specific
[14:03:38] <cpresser> anonimasu: if that would be critical, i would order new stuff :)
[14:03:47] <Spida> I have made good experiences with dell, too. but (a) you need to call them, and don't use the webshop. usually, if you get a competent seller on the phone (which is not that easy), he may get you up to 30% discount... and offer options that are generally NOT available like NOT buying windows. (b) buy a long on-site service package
[14:04:09] * Spida has the third display in his laptop
[14:04:31] <mozmck> third display?
[14:05:05] <Spida> mozmck: yes, the first two broke some time during warranty
[14:05:21] <mozmck> Oh, I see.
[14:05:29] <Spida> there are special sites that collect information on linux on mobiles like http://tuxmobil.org/
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[14:07:10] <Spida> for my part, I believe in notebooks whit metal case like dell latitude and precision or lenovo thinkpad, t-series.... I carry my laptop to university each day in my backpack, together with a bottle of water an various books and papers.
[14:07:46] <Spida> backpack is like 10 kg, laptop is below all other stuff and survived the last 6 years.
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[14:17:34] <cncbasher> Hi John
[14:21:26] <JT-Shop> hi
[14:22:00] <cncbasher> iv'e just sent a msg to the guy having problems setting up
[14:22:25] <JT-Shop> guy on the forum?
[14:22:27] <cncbasher> if he shouts i'll ring him and talk him through , asi belive he's in the UK
[14:22:30] <cncbasher> YEA
[14:22:37] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[14:22:45] <cncbasher> sent you an email too
[14:23:03] <cncbasher> managed to fix the speed controller on the Hardinge at last
[14:23:04] <JT-Shop> toolchanger?
[14:23:10] <cncbasher> yea
[14:23:18] <JT-Shop> just looking at it now
[14:23:26] <cncbasher> what a pain of a job it was too
[14:24:27] <JT-Shop> is the encoder gray code?
[14:25:06] <cncbasher> on the toolchanger , i know i'm missing the obvious , i was thinking of reading the 3 switches into bcd or reverting to a turrent number etc , or writing a modbus prog for it
[14:25:26] <JT-Shop> bcd was what I was thinking
[14:25:27] <cncbasher> yes it's grey code
[14:25:35] <cncbasher> as far as i can make out
[14:25:46] <cncbasher> see the attached pic's
[14:25:48] <JT-Shop> let me look at my CHCN a sec
[14:27:40] <JT-Shop> I used wsum and have 4 outputs from my turret encoder
[14:28:23] <cncbasher> can you mail a snip of how you did it
[14:30:42] <JT-Shop> I used the wsum to convert the bcd inputs to a station number then used classicladder to do the tool change... I'll have to make a screen shot of it then send it to you
[14:31:51] <cncbasher> ok thanks John
[14:32:03] <JT-Shop> better yet I'll send the .clp file and you can open it up with axis and look at it
[14:32:13] <cncbasher> ok
[14:32:32] <cncbasher> the guys contacted me . so he'll ring me shortly
[14:32:52] <cncbasher> easier to ask questions and point him in the right direction
[14:33:07] <cncbasher> should not take long to solve it for him
[14:37:49] <cncbasher> he's only 20 mile from me haha
[14:40:22] <JT-Shop> he can walk to your house in a couple of hours :)
[14:41:59] <cncbasher> he's ringing me in 20 mins
[14:42:12] <JT-Shop> sent you e-mail
[14:42:18] <cncbasher> ok
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[14:43:09] <cncbasher> got thanks John , if u find the grey code one , send it on
[14:51:02] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[14:52:56] <Valen> heh if you can make logic gates in classicladder you should be able to do *anything* in it
[14:53:09] <Valen> free beer to the first person to make an 8086 in it
[14:53:33] <Valen> 2 beers if you let me use the computer that can run it
[14:55:01] <Loetmichel> Valen: i think there is a limitation in the amount of logic gates ;-)
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[14:56:50] <JT-Shop> bit of a power surge here :/
[14:57:13] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: thats what an UPS is for ;-)
[15:00:03] <cncbasher> cant beat a stack of truck batterys either
[15:04:20] <JT-Shop> my internet is so unreliable a power blink don't bother me any more
[15:04:39] <Loetmichel> hihi
[15:08:35] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: I found the greycode mux
[15:10:40] <JT-Shop> what Ubuntu package is needed to enable personal file sharing on a LAN?
[15:11:23] <cncbasher> samba John
[15:13:10] <JT-Shop> thanks
[15:14:06] <JT-Shop> hmm it is installed all ready
[15:15:04] <JT-Shop> I'll reinstall it and try again
[15:15:19] <SWPadnos> or you could enable file sharing
[15:15:37] <JT-Shop> I have that enabled on several directories
[15:17:57] <JT-Shop> it's something to do with 10.04 as they both won't allow me to open up a directory but my 8.04 works as expected
[15:18:52] <JT-Shop> both 10.04 machines give me an enter network password with Logon failure: unkown user name or bad password
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[15:24:26] <cncbasher> hang on john i'll check my config here
[15:24:46] <cncbasher> are you going between linux boxes or across to windoze
[15:25:17] <SWPadnos> are you trying to share files from Ubuntu to Windows or the other way around?
[15:25:48] <SWPadnos> I have 10.04 communicating just fine with a Windows share, but I haven't bothered with it in the other direction (that I can remember)
[15:26:23] <JT-Shop> yes both Ubuntu and Winblows 7
[15:27:57] <cncbasher> try installing winbind
[15:28:13] <JT-Shop> on Ubuntu?
[15:28:49] <cncbasher> yes and also smbfs
[15:28:55] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:28:59] <cncbasher> if you dont already have it
[15:30:14] <JT-Shop> nope neither one is installed
[15:30:16] <JT-Shop> installing now
[15:30:28] <cncbasher> samba should give you file share across networks
[15:32:04] <JT-Shop> I had samba and can share between the 10.04 computers fine
[15:32:12] <JT-Shop> did you get my email?
[15:33:32] <cncbasher> got the hardinge clp email ok
[15:37:33] <JT-Shop> some parts will be the same
[15:38:54] <cncbasher> what are you trying to share across John , i presume youv'e shared the folders etc
[15:43:13] <JT-Shop> just trying to be able to copy and paste back and forth from the winblows computer and the lathe 10.04
[15:43:29] <JT-Shop> I've shared the folders with full sharing
[15:44:51] <JT-Shop> I think I've found something
[15:48:29] <cncbasher> should work fine John , have the same working here
[15:49:35] <cncbasher> mind you it's a right pain with win 7
[15:50:53] <cpresser> install unix-services for windows. that enables windows to use nfs
[15:51:14] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:53:30] <JT-Shop> heh, that will take a while :/ to download
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[16:01:07] <Jymmm> And completely insecure, not that it matters for JT-Shop.
[16:02:05] <cncbasher> why has he stooped so low as to use windoze
[16:04:22] <JT-Shop> SolidWorks and OneCNC only run on winblows
[16:04:24] <AC-130H> solidworks/mastercam
[16:04:41] <AC-130H> i'd sneakernet it *shrug*
[16:04:50] <cncbasher> i'll let him off in that case ( add me too )
[16:05:21] <anonimasu> dont try to run cad in vmware..
[16:05:22] <anonimasu> or virtualbox
[16:05:24] <anonimasu> :)
[16:05:26] <JT-Shop> I make my living with SolidWorks so it's a must have
[16:05:33] <cncbasher> if it was not for sw and mcam , i'd throw windows as far as possible
[16:05:41] <anonimasu> same here
[16:05:53] <JT-Shop> same here
[16:06:26] <cncbasher> i use solidcam too in the mix
[16:08:23] <JT-Shop> LOL, all I had to do was use the username guest with no password
[16:09:02] <cncbasher> glad ur working John
[16:09:24] <cncbasher> it's the simple things that always screw up
[16:09:32] <JT-Shop> I just kept searching on google till I found the answer
[16:09:40] <JT-Shop> just sent you another email
[16:12:51] <cncbasher> noting yet
[16:13:18] <JT-Shop> takes a while to get there I assume
[16:13:55] <cncbasher> probably flooded the lines under the atlantic
[16:14:14] <JT-Shop> so in ladder you could run the motor till you see the right tool number come back from the encoder then back up for a time then announce that the tool change is done to EMC
[16:14:19] <cncbasher> got it
[16:15:28] <JT-Shop> did you look at ArcEye's boxford toolchanger comp?
[16:16:20] <cncbasher> thaks john , yes looking at ArcEye's comp as well
[16:16:33] <JT-Shop> does his read the encoder?
[16:16:57] <JT-Shop> oh his is for a stepper drive
[16:16:58] <cncbasher> no he just uses the index and then a stepper
[16:17:18] <cncbasher> whereas mine has a dc motor , but essentialy identical hardware
[16:17:23] <JT-Shop> you don't need that complication with a motor and absolute encoder
[16:18:17] <JT-Shop> in my ladder you might notice I return tool change done if the encoder is in the right position and don't bother spinning the turret
[16:19:21] <cncbasher> yea thats probably where i'm making a easy job , more complicated
[16:20:32] <JT-Shop> all you need is the gray code comp to spit out an integer for each position
[16:21:56] <JT-Shop> hmm, yours is not gray code but some other variant
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[16:22:33] <cncbasher> the boring positions are odd numbers on the turret
[16:23:31] <cncbasher> i'll have to refresh my grey matter with grey code in that case
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[16:24:32] <JT-Shop> it's gray after some guy named Gray but I've found yours it is BRCG 3-bit binary-reflected Gray code
[16:24:40] <cncbasher> the toolchanger is using a reflective disk with 3 opto sensors
[16:24:49] <cncbasher> arh
[16:25:18] <JT-Shop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_code
[16:25:29] <JT-Shop> see Position encoders
[16:26:48] <JT-Shop> so you just need a BRGC comp :)
[16:26:54] <cncbasher> yes thats it identical wheel
[16:28:13] <cncbasher> and the question is
[16:28:48] <cncbasher> now to find one
[16:32:20] <JT-Shop> should be fairly simple to do...
[16:38:22] <cncbasher> http://www.morkalork.com/mork/article/74/How_to_understand_and_use_Gray_code.htm
[16:39:32] <archivist> easy, just one bit changes at a time
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[16:45:28] <cncbasher> found an implemtation in python
[16:51:52] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: just send you a brgc comp
[16:51:57] <JT-Shop> sent
[16:53:49] <cncbasher> thanks john your a star !
[16:54:12] <cncbasher> pity i'm so far away
[16:55:08] <archivist> I think you are local
[16:59:45] <cncbasher> hartlepool
[17:00:20] <cncbasher> ok i know someone has to live here , it just had to be me
[17:00:21] <archivist> Burton upon Trent, local ish :)
[17:02:27] <cncbasher> yea
[17:02:48] -!- tom3p [tom3p!~tomp@74-93-88-241-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #emc
[17:02:49] <cncbasher> probably is local distances for John
[17:04:00] <JT-Shop> yea, local for me is <60 miles
[17:04:16] <JT-Shop> I briefly tested the comp
[17:04:23] <cncbasher> 170 mile
[17:06:39] * JT-Shop wanders inside for a nap
[17:06:45] <pcw_home> You mean GB is still there? its after 6PM
[17:07:18] <archivist> wah....when is the end anyway
[17:07:50] <pcw_home> Maybe a rounding error
[17:08:33] <archivist> hehe, all the loons predicting the "end is nigh" get it wrong
[17:09:26] <cncbasher> they been predicting it for all ever,must be using windows 7
[17:10:45] <anonimasu> pcw_home: I am receiving data from my encoder
[17:10:46] <anonimasu> :)
[17:10:46] <JT-Shop> well, so much for that idea... wife has engaged "cleaning mode"
[17:11:36] <JT-Shop> I hear that last piece of OSB calling me now
[17:11:45] <Tom_itx> run for your life
[17:11:49] <archivist> it reminds me of the soothsayer in Up Pompeii
[17:12:56] <Tom_itx> archivist, did the end happen without us?
[17:12:59] <anonimasu> pcw_home: I ordered a driver board from you in friday so we'll see when it arrives
[17:13:23] <archivist> Im still waiting for teh end
[17:14:57] <Tom_itx> will irc quit if it does?
[17:15:00] <pcw_home> anonimasu did you see my message about the ic-haus interpolators? They would give you more resolution if you need it
[17:15:02] <pcw_home> also if you can read the rotor position at startup, thats all the BLDC driver needs
[17:16:21] <pcw_home> The ic-haus interpolators would also be a good choice for older Heidehaine linear sine/cos scales
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[17:19:04] <pcw_home> The HostMot2 UART/7I44 would work for the hiperface RS-485 interface (if you turn the hiperface parity off)
[17:19:19] <tom3p> pcw_home, to decode sinus to ttl?
[17:19:33] <tom3p> ^^^ the ic_haus chip
[17:22:01] <anonimasu> pcw_home: I found them in my supplier so i'll get thoose
[17:22:18] <anonimasu> pcw_home: tho that gives me 2^14 counts per sine period
[17:22:41] <anonimasu> 16777216 counts/rev
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[17:23:32] <anonimasu> :)
[17:24:34] <pcw_home> tom3p: yes sine/cos to quadrature with x2 to x64 interpolation
[17:25:24] <tom3p> thx, are you talking about this for instance? http://www.ichaus.de/product/iC-MN
[17:26:15] <tom3p> (dang a Spanish eng. always talked about Nonius.... have to google that weird version of interpolation up )
[17:26:17] <pcw_home> No, the ic-tw2
[17:26:21] <tom3p> k
[17:27:36] <pcw_home> nonious gives absolute position with a vernier (2 1024 quadtrature track and a 1023 vernier track for instance)
[17:28:24] <tom3p> ok, so a typ Heid had a sinus every 10um so this interps 10/2^8 that oughtta be good enuf
[17:28:59] <tom3p> thx, so the nonius is a vernier track for abso osn... (looks to find some Battery back up feature )
[17:29:09] <tom3p> p osition
[17:29:12] <pcw_home> You don t get that much accuracy (maybe 32-50 x max or so)
[17:30:47] <pcw_home> but thats a lot better than the 2.5 u a comparator --> quad converter would give you
[17:31:48] <tom3p> still, 10 / (anything near 10) gets you 1u :)
[17:34:06] <pcw_home> A little PCB with a op amp front end for 11uA Heidenhain scales would be a nice thing for retrofitters (if they dont have the original interpolator)
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[17:36:13] <tom3p> or the newer 1vpp just to get away from sinus and back to ttl
[17:38:23] <pcw_home> Yeah a jumperable current/Voltage (90K feedback) front end would allow both
[17:41:54] <tom3p> i can send some 11ua linear scales for you to use till you're done looking at 'em
[17:42:22] <tom3p> dunno if i have any linear 1vpp. maybe rotary
[17:48:53] <pcw_home> think we have some 11 uA ones, probably not 1V
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[17:51:17] <pcw_home> Dont think I'd want to ship a linear glass scale unless it was pretty darn short
[17:52:01] <JT-Shop> have to pack it in a steel case so the UPS box manglers don't break it
[17:53:17] <tom3p> i might have as short as 28, maybe 24inches and the packing case from heid is what they use to ship. if it's scragged, dont worry, just collecting dust now
[17:53:27] <tom3p> 18-24"
[17:54:21] <tom3p> question is can you use it, dont worry about the shipping
[17:55:11] <anonimasu> hm, the sin/cos resolver chips seems like they can work for that
[17:55:33] <anonimasu> I saw someone hack togther arduino code for resolver interface too
[17:57:01] <pcw_home> Well i could only use it if we decide to make up some interpolator cards
[17:57:03] <pcw_home> resolver is different as it has a AC carrier and it would be tough/impossible to generate the MHz
[17:57:05] <pcw_home> quadrature output with a uproc
[17:58:02] <anonimasu> pcw_home: I have a idea about this stuff
[17:58:05] <AC-130H> what do the good servo motor controllers include?
[17:58:25] <anonimasu> pcw_home: (my motors)
[17:58:53] <anonimasu> im gonna stick a avr with the rs485 interface to decode error signals and transfer them to pc
[17:59:10] <pcw_home> a resolver interface only needs to track 1 sine/cycle per revolution,
[17:59:12] <pcw_home> an interpolator needs to interpolate fast enough to track 1000 or so cycles per rev at reasonable speeds
[17:59:24] <anonimasu> isnt this asic stuff?
[17:59:41] <anonimasu> (to be fast enough for that)
[18:00:02] <pcw_home> Yes, thats why an arduino wont cut it
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[18:03:34] <pcw_home> anonimasu The AVR would also need to read the absolute position at startup to tell EMC the rotor position
[18:04:43] <pcw_home> (the BLDC driver can keep track of it from the quadrature counts after startup )
[18:05:04] <anonimasu> pcw_home: my idea exactly
[18:05:13] <anonimasu> then transmitting that into emc but how that is supposed to work i have no clue
[18:07:24] <pcw_home> You may not need the AVR If you use HostMots2s UART
[18:28:47] <anonimasu> can I program that to read encoder status and things?
[18:37:45] <pcw_home> Should be possible but its would need a fairly complicated COMP
[18:40:01] <anonimasu> can I set up a comp and bit shift the value into emc?
[18:40:12] <anonimasu> from the avr
[18:40:21] <anonimasu> ir that bus i2c thing?
[18:40:40] <anonimasu> worstcase I'll run it in non realtime and just do it before I power on drives
[18:42:18] <pcw_home> No there a UART in hostmot2 that can do the RS-485 communication, the comp needs to load the xmit regs and read the recv regs (and set up baud rate etc)
[18:42:26] <pcw_home> theres
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[18:47:22] <anonimasu> I see, is there anyone that made something like that before?
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[18:51:15] <pcw_home> No...
[18:51:41] <pcw_home> Well maybe but their not sayin...
[18:52:29] <tom3p> i just built Rudy Du Preez's 5 axis vismach of a Hermle FW801. The trunnion animation is nice.
[18:52:30] <tom3p> His demo mills the junction of a cylinder meeting a sphere ( imagine the neck of an old timey diver's helmet )
[18:52:45] <tom3p> his code is a new kins file for XYZCA
[18:53:10] <pcw_home> they are not saying
[18:54:48] <anonimasu> hmm..
[18:55:08] <anonimasu> anyway worst case in userspace and then fetch the angle setp it into emc
[18:55:16] <anonimasu> :)
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[18:57:29] <pcw_home> At least the hiperface serial protocol is well documented
[18:57:38] <IchGuckLive> hi all !
[18:57:58] <IchGuckLive> O.O gerber 2 emc2 i made it
[18:58:03] <IchGuckLive> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/210511205522_Bildschirmfoto-25.png
[18:58:33] <IchGuckLive> aso now eagle PCB Text milling works !
[18:59:07] <IchGuckLive> do you think i shoudt put this into the wiki ?
[18:59:31] <IchGuckLive> its so nice to now get also milling the Text positiv not isolated
[18:59:46] <JT-Shop> yes
[19:00:17] <IchGuckLive> i will make a Youtube how it works and make then a wiki entry
[19:00:24] <tom3p> IchGuckLive, nice
[19:00:26] <JT-Shop> cool
[19:00:30] <tom3p> Rudy Du Preez's XYZAC video http://videobin.org/+4i3/4va.html
[19:01:35] <IchGuckLive> tom is this in pyvcp
[19:02:21] <IchGuckLive> see you tomorow same time !
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[19:16:42] <JT-Shop> 2 walls done 1 to go :)
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[19:35:31] <Jymmm> down? I thought you were CONstructing shop, not DEstructing one.
[19:39:38] <mrsunshine_> hmm, i wonder if cutting a slot in the base of the mill will weaken it much ?
[19:39:48] <mrsunshine_> need a slot for the leadscrew so i can move the motor :P
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[20:01:00] * JT-Shop debates going to homless depot for a few things or just keep working
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[23:41:29] * JT-Shop gives up on construction for the day and makes tool bit mk8...
[23:44:05] <i_tarzan> mk8?
[23:44:37] * FinboySlick guesses Mark 8 ?
[23:44:45] <JT-Shop> yea, the first 7 didn't work as well as expected
[23:45:01] <JT-Shop> FinboySlick: guesses correctly
[23:45:48] * FinboySlick makes yet another small step on the trecherous road away from Cluelessland.
[23:47:34] <FinboySlick> Now to figure out where that spindle watercooling pump is supposed to go :P
[23:47:48] <JT-Shop> high speed spindle?
[23:48:01] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Yeah.
[23:48:26] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: I have an obvious idea of where it goes. But I see no mounts or anything there so now I'm in doubt.
[23:48:29] <JT-Shop> cool, does it have a radiator or just a tank
[23:48:36] <FinboySlick> Just a tank.
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[23:50:58] <FinboySlick> I wonder why I haven't been raptured yet... I didn't even curse at it.
[23:51:29] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Where you at?
[23:52:38] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Eastern Quebec. No rapture people here but I figured I'd get in on the joke.
[23:53:29] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Unless, of course, you're seriously awaiting it. In which case... Don't loose hope brother.
[23:54:03] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Ah, Rapture is on GMT time, you're not scheduled till another few hours
[23:54:58] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: So Jesus moved to Greenwich or something?
[23:57:17] <Tom_itx> japan tsunami threw it all out of whach
[23:58:12] <JT-Shop> tell those guys up in the arctic circle making my garage door to hurry up :)
[23:58:29] <Tom_itx> sure hope it's not coming from Canada
[23:58:43] <JT-Shop> yea, just found out yesterday
[23:58:52] <FinboySlick> Assuming I get as good as it gets out of my parallel port, how many steps per seconds can I hope for?
[23:58:57] <JT-Shop> it's the only door that they don't make in IL
[23:58:58] <Tom_itx> their postal system is one of the worst in the world
[23:59:05] <Tom_itx> and they went on strike
[23:59:17] <JT-Shop> this is factory direct freight
[23:59:45] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Don't buy pre-assembled parts if they have to travel through Quebec roads!
[23:59:47] <Tom_itx> kidding about part 2 but part 1 is pretty accurate
[23:59:57] <JT-Shop> FinboySlick: open up the stepconf wizard and run a latency test then enter that number and you can see your step speed