#emc | Logs for 2011-05-11

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[00:06:48] <JT-Shop> next to git rid of the $8.95 blue garage door and put up a real one...
[00:07:11] <Tom_itx> nice insulated one?
[00:07:19] <JT-Shop> R12.9
[00:07:20] <marcin_ose> Basic shapes like shown here - http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/DXF_to_G-code_Conversion_Tutorial
[00:07:50] <marcin_ose> Just have to get my axes scaled properly, and use a pen for plotting the path first before torching.
[00:08:03] <JT-Shop> for basic shapes I'd give ngcgui a whirl but you need at least 2.4 for it...
[00:08:10] <Tom_itx> mpg comes tomorrow
[00:08:15] <JT-Shop> sounds like your making progress
[00:08:19] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: cool
[00:08:28] <Tom_itx> mesa stuff friday
[00:08:44] <Tom_itx> then i suppose i'll have no excuses
[00:09:10] <JT-Shop> I got a coaxial centering indicator today... pretty sweet for round parts on the mill and the 4-jaw on the lathe
[00:09:18] <JT-Shop> yep you will have to get with it...
[00:09:33] <Tom_itx> is that one of those things you put in the spindle?
[00:09:43] <JT-Shop> yea, usually
[00:09:45] <Tom_itx> with a dial
[00:09:56] <Tom_itx> yeah those are nice
[00:10:11] <JT-Shop> yea, the feeler spins but the dial stays still
[00:10:16] <Tom_itx> yup
[00:10:51] <JT-Shop> I put it on my collet holder of the lathe to center up some stock on the 4-jaw worked fast and good
[00:11:51] <Tom_itx> http://www.travers.com/skulist.asp?RequestData=CA_Search&navPath=All+Products%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch1%3Dcenter+finder&q=block+id+37205+and+class+level3+id+29042&minPrice=$22.49
[00:11:58] <JT-Shop> I have a lift and rotate device that I designed for assembly lines that needs a bolt hole pattern on a round part so there you go
[00:12:37] <JT-Shop> yep, but a Fowler for < $200
[00:12:52] <Tom_itx> yeah that was the first hit i found
[00:13:24] * JT-Shop hears the dinner bell ringing :)
[00:13:41] <JT-Shop> I'm heading inside now talk to you later
[00:13:46] <Tom_itx> k
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[00:28:07] <emcrules_mill> hello all it's been a while
[00:28:47] <emcrules_mill> anyone around been playing with ngcgui?
[00:29:14] <JT-Shop> yes
[00:29:39] * Tom_itx thinks JT-Shop missed dinner
[00:30:09] <JT-Shop> it was delayed for 15 minutes
[00:30:16] <emcrules_mill> when i run a create a feature i get a error that it cant find the sub.
[00:30:24] <JT-Shop> 2.4?
[00:30:33] <JT-Shop> quick it really is dinner time now
[00:30:36] <Tom_itx> does that work on mills too?
[00:30:37] <emcrules_mill> problem in the preamble perhaps
[00:30:41] <Tom_itx> or mostly for lathes
[00:30:41] <emcrules_mill> yep 2.4
[00:30:49] <JT-Shop> for anything
[00:30:59] <Tom_itx> i might have to look at it
[00:31:01] <JT-Shop> put your subs in the nc_files directory
[00:31:22] <JT-Shop> I'm working on some subs for my plasma cutter
[00:31:41] <JT-Shop> call me anything but don't call me late for dinner :)
[00:31:43] <emcrules_mill> emc2 ncfiles dir?
[00:31:49] <JT-Shop> yea
[00:32:00] <JT-Shop> be back after chow
[00:32:06] <emcrules_mill> later
[00:32:15] <JT-Shop> emcrules_mill: check out the subroutine section of the forum
[00:32:42] <emcrules_mill> worked like a charm
[00:33:17] <West0n> So has anyone got emc^2 running of usb with any sort of converter or anything?
[00:33:39] <Jymmm> West0n: No, and never will.
[00:35:20] <West0n> Why?
[00:35:45] <Jymmm> Becasue USB does polling and has big latency
[00:36:36] <West0n> D:
[00:36:46] <West0n> What happens with a usb converter?
[00:43:20] <KimK> You sell it on eBay?
[00:43:45] <Jymmm> West0n: it gets worse
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[01:07:31] <West0n> Will it still function jymmm?
[01:13:14] <JT-Shop> emcrules_mill: ngcgui working now?
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[01:28:49] <emcrules_mill> JT yep
[01:29:36] <emcrules_mill> just modifying cradeks probing routines to work with ngcgui
[01:32:54] <emcrules_mill> JT-Shop, Hows the shop coming along?
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[01:48:27] <West0n> Anyone know of a quick way to test a laptop parallel port to see if it will work with cnc machine software?
[01:48:34] <West0n> Scope it out?
[01:48:50] <Tom_itx> check the voltage out too
[01:48:50] <skunkworks> run emc's latency test first
[01:49:26] <skunkworks> laptops more times than not have crappy realtime performance
[01:50:26] <jdhNC> how about a laptop and a 7i43?
[01:52:52] <West0n> I thought they pwm'ed the pins or something to save power
[01:53:12] <West0n> This is a win 95 laptop. You think its even cabible of running emc?
[01:53:28] <Tom_itx> doubtful
[01:53:54] <West0n> I will try it on the house computer then I guess
[01:54:15] <West0n> Right now I am using cnc software that runs on a microcontroler
[01:54:23] <Jymmm> w95 would bearound a P2 iirc
[01:54:29] <SWPadnos> what are the CPU and memory of the laptop?
[01:54:34] <West0n> As its only a laser cutter, I might stay with that
[01:54:46] <Tom_itx> 98 se might be a better choice for it
[01:54:54] <Tom_itx> if it would work at all
[01:55:20] <Jymmm> West0n: what cpu and ram ?
[01:55:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Welcome Home
[01:55:47] <SWPadnos> thanks
[01:55:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: when you get in?
[01:56:01] <SWPadnos> last Friday :)
[01:56:15] <Jymmm> 4 or 5 day conf?
[01:56:17] <West0n> Don't know. Its low though
[01:56:30] <SWPadnos> 4 days, M-T, flew back on Fri
[01:56:36] <Jymmm> ah
[01:57:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You know that luggable, I think I'll toss in this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-131-697
[01:57:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: But I have to get the angle grinder out and do some mods first
[01:57:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:57:50] <SWPadnos> wait until they get all the good stuff rolled into CoreBoot
[01:57:59] <Jymmm> coreboot? who?
[01:58:04] <SWPadnos> then you can have instant on (more or less)
[01:58:10] <SWPadnos> formerly LinuxBIOS
[01:58:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, my lil system on th left of my desk is dying, I need to replace it soon
[01:58:42] <SWPadnos> replaces the BIOS, boots in almost no time, can directly load the kernel for you (instead of using GRUB/LILO)
[01:58:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: who is doing this?
[01:59:10] <SWPadnos> the LinuxBIOS people ...
[01:59:24] <SWPadnos> http://www.coreboot.org/
[01:59:24] <Jymmm> and what supports it?
[01:59:31] <archivist> JT-Shop, yes, the Denford atc is the same
[01:59:53] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: oh, they must have been at the conf =)
[01:59:57] <Jymmm> brb
[01:59:59] <SWPadnos> AMD just said that they're going to make sure that CoreBoot works on all their future chips, and many existing ones
[02:00:04] <SWPadnos> no, I don't think so
[02:00:14] <SWPadnos> though I did talk to some of the guys at FOSDEM this year
[02:01:04] <SWPadnos> and don't forget http://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom for reflashing your BIOS chip
[02:02:17] <Jymmm> back
[02:04:00] <Jymmm> I hae that nic, but it dont have a ZIF socket =)
[02:04:05] <Jymmm> have
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[02:05:11] <SWPadnos> it'll burn just about anything, if you have a socket for it
[02:05:48] <SWPadnos> they even talk about booting up, popping a ROM out of the running system, putting in the one you want to program, and swapping back before you reboot
[02:06:08] <Jymmm> heh
[02:06:14] <SWPadnos> it kind of doesn't care what's at the end of the pipe, only that it knows how to twiddle the pipe, and what to do with what's at the other end
[02:06:28] <Jymmm> and via ssh, cool
[02:06:42] <Jymmm> so can it do PIC's too?
[02:06:56] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[02:07:14] <Jymmm> What game ROM's
[02:07:17] <SWPadnos> there's AVRDude for AVRs, and something else for PICs I'm sure
[02:07:36] <Jymmm> cool, it supports DOS!
[02:07:56] <Jymmm> skunkworks: ereaders are cheao now
[02:08:00] <Jymmm> cheap
[02:10:18] <Jymmm> skunkworks: the PanDigital Novel is nice
[02:11:22] <Tom_itx> i've used an old cdrom board to program as well
[02:11:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yeah, but you're sadistic that way, so it doens't count =)
[02:11:45] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/mtkflash/flash_howto_index.php
[02:12:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: (That's NOT necessarily a bad thing either =)
[02:13:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: the Rear I/O plate on the luggable is 14ga steel, so I have to cut it out to the "standard" size
[02:13:41] <Jymmm> ^insert
[02:13:43] <SWPadnos> nibble nibble nibble
[02:13:47] <Jymmm> 14ga
[02:13:58] <SWPadnos> strong wrists
[02:14:05] <Jymmm> angle grinder
[02:14:08] <SWPadnos> and thumbs and hands and stuff
[02:14:10] <SWPadnos> wimp
[02:14:13] <Jymmm> with cutting wheel
[02:14:20] * Tom_itx snickers
[02:14:34] <Jymmm> besides most dont do this thick
[02:15:08] <Jymmm> I also need to find some very low profile 3.5 sata removable trays
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[03:42:00] <ssi> hooray
[03:42:04] <ssi> spindle speed control is working
[03:42:16] <ssi> but my spindle encoder has quit, so can't do PID yet
[03:42:25] <ssi> also I'm not sure my encoder will keep up with high spindle speeds for PID
[03:42:28] <ssi> it was designd for threading
[03:42:51] <ssi> also, I think I'm going to have to get on designing a system wide e-stop
[03:43:02] <ssi> because when I shut down EMC2, the spindle goes to full-speed reverse :P
[03:49:35] <Valen> lol thats not a good thing
[03:50:24] <ssi> nope!
[03:53:54] <Valen> perhaps a seperate spindle enable to estop?
[03:54:12] <Valen> yes there is a spindle on signal I believe you could use
[03:54:26] <ssi> yeah, that's probably the way to do it
[03:55:02] <ssi> I'm using a hex inverter to buffer signals for the pwm to analog converter
[03:55:07] <ssi> maybe I'll swap that out for an or gate
[03:55:09] <Valen> (because you will want the spindle off and to jog the table around)
[03:55:20] <ssi> and or my pwm signal against spindle-on
[03:55:45] <Valen> I'd use the spindle on to give power to the thing somehow
[03:55:51] <Valen> I don't know the details of your setup
[03:56:03] <ssi> well the VFD has at least one input that I can use
[03:56:09] <ssi> i know it has an e-stop input
[03:56:14] <ssi> but I'd like to save that for an actual e-stop
[03:56:31] <ssi> if it has a separate enable signal that I can drive directly against spindle-on, then I'll use it
[03:56:32] <Valen> does it have an enable input?
[03:56:50] <Valen> otherwise I'd use the estop wired up as a diode OR or something
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[04:02:46] <Valen> (don't be afraid to use estop to mean stop, generally they are the same things)
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[04:34:56] <Connor> on a MPG, I should be able to give it 5v, G, and wire the 2 pins straight into a parport without any additional stuff?
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[07:56:32] <Guest557> hello, i am setting up a cnc router and i had a question about which stepper moters to use. i was stongly looking at http://cgi.ebay.com/3-x-Brand-New-VEXTA-2A-stepper-stepping-motor-PK266-02A-/300530137260?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f8fdf8ac
[07:57:41] <Guest557> and these http://cgi.ebay.com/226-6-oz-in-ds-IC-STEPPER-MOTOR-CNC-MILL-LATHE-ROBOT-/110483521608?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19b954c048
[07:59:09] <Jymmm> One option http://www.geckodrive.com/g723-280-p-45.html
[07:59:37] <Guest557> if nether of those would be suitable then i will most likely go with the G723-280-4 from geckodrive
[07:59:55] <Guest557> what do you all think would be the best thing for me to do?
[07:59:57] <Jymmm> the vexta are only 123 inoz
[08:01:30] <Guest557> it is a small router 8"x6"4" i wasnt sure if they would be big enough but since my machine is so small i thought it may work
[08:02:20] <Jymmm> Here's my take on that.... If the physical size (NEMA23) is going to be the same either way...
[08:03:49] <Jymmm> you can get motors with lower torque for about $30, or the same size with more torque for about $50. If you need more torque for some reason you can't just go up. But if you need less you can go down.
[08:04:14] <Jymmm> You can always use the motors on another/newer project down the road too
[08:04:46] <Guest557> i ment big as in torque. but with price in mind, do you think the 226 oz/in would be as good as the steppers from gecko?
[08:04:46] <Jymmm> It all really depends on your current/future needs and budget
[08:05:39] <Jymmm> I really can't say. They are used that's for sure.
[08:06:14] <Jymmm> the seller gives a non-DOA fwiw
[08:06:33] <Jymmm> I'd look at the torque curve and compare
[08:08:31] <Guest557> im looking but not really sure how to find that
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[08:13:19] <Guest557> i guess really theres only about 45USD differance so i would be best off to play it safe and fo with the gecko stepper
[08:13:45] <Jymmm> where you at?
[08:14:12] <Guest557> Texas
[08:15:00] <Jymmm> you might ask tomorrow during the day, I'm sure there are a few others that know where to pickup steppers from besides ebay
[08:15:39] <Jymmm> I can't find that EXACT PN to look at tit's specs
[08:15:42] <Jymmm> it's
[08:16:21] <Guest557> ok. i work 2shift so i get off kinda late here. ebay just lets me be lazy
[08:16:32] <Guest557> but thankyou for the help
[08:16:37] <Jymmm> np
[08:17:28] <Jymmm> http://www.interinar.com/vexta-pk266-02a.html
[08:19:03] <Jymmm> http://www.surpluscenter.com/
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[08:36:56] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html
[08:37:03] <Tom_itx> Connor, yes
[08:37:43] <Jymmm> Damn.... nema23 w/ 495 ozin... nice
[08:38:39] <Tom_itx> i got #3 for my sherline
[08:39:44] <Tom_itx> the ones you linked look more like the ones i replaced them for
[08:39:52] <Jymmm> lol
[08:40:04] <Jymmm> That's why I mentioned that he should ask others.
[08:40:08] <Tom_itx> 135 in oz but i got by with them for a long time
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[08:40:29] <Jymmm> Yeah, just seems too low for a NEMA23. NEMA17 sure.
[08:42:00] <Tom_itx> http://www.ultimachine.com/content/kysan-1124030-nema-17-stepper-motor
[08:42:30] <Jymmm> whats that in inoz
[08:42:43] <Jymmm> 4.8ohm - ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[08:42:44] <Tom_itx> Holding Torque: 5.5Kg.cm
[08:42:59] <Jymmm> and in in/oz?
[08:43:12] * Tom_itx hands Jymmm a calculator
[08:43:26] <Jymmm> no thanks, just need the ozin
[08:45:17] <Jymmm> 76ozin
[08:46:24] <Tom_itx> dude was using them for a project but i don't know if it was a reprap or something else
[08:46:49] <Jymmm> ah
[08:47:24] <Tom_itx> kelinginc has decent prices
[08:47:40] <Jymmm> do they have torque curves too?
[08:47:47] <Tom_itx> he does
[08:48:14] <Jymmm> 'he'?
[08:48:23] <Tom_itx> kelinginc
[08:49:44] <Jymmm> ah
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[08:57:28] <Jymmm> Heh, I hope I did that right =)
[08:57:53] <Jymmm> It says it's the right size =)
[08:59:21] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: know anything about freebsd?
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[14:03:31] <ssi> hrm
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[14:32:58] <JT-Work> hidey hoe
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[14:35:22] <aggrav8d> so i just put some epoxy on the rods and then put the sprockets back on. with luck this will stop the slippage and finally let me run the damn thing.
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[14:36:00] <aggrav8d> met a dude at the maker faire meeting last night who rapids 2000 and cuts 1600. good god that's fast.
[14:36:13] <aggrav8d> (for a home built machine?)
[14:41:51] <theorbtwo> I've finally got some progress on my reprap mill conversion -- that is, converting a reprap into a mill. Is there a simple way to run just the gcode-generating bits of emc?
[14:42:22] <ssi> why don't you just use your reprap to print a mill? :D
[14:43:13] <TekniQue> is the reprap anywhere near sturdy enough to do milling?
[14:43:28] <theorbtwo> ssi: Size.
[14:43:35] <theorbtwo> TekniQue: I'm about to find out.
[14:43:40] <ssi> they say size doesn't matter
[14:44:04] <theorbtwo> ssi: I mean that I have space on my bench for a mill or my overbuilt reprap (actually a shapercube), not both.
[14:44:04] <TekniQue> theorbtwo: keep us updated
[14:44:09] <ssi> ohhh
[14:44:10] <ssi> heheh
[14:45:06] <theorbtwo> If I can get halfway reasonable results with just swapping out the toolhead and using a different gcode generator, and maybe adding some extra stiffening bits...
[14:45:31] <theorbtwo> Most of the machine is 5mm watercut alumnimum panels, though, so the basic structure is pretty stiff.
[14:45:42] <TekniQue> ok
[14:45:49] <ssi> what are you wanting to cut?
[14:45:54] <TekniQue> so it's not the typical 6mm plywood reprap then
[14:46:24] <theorbtwo> TekniQue: Nah. Those aren't technically repraps either, they are makerbots.
[14:46:44] <theorbtwo> A shapercube is *much* sturdier stuff. Also, harder to set on fire.
[14:47:05] <TekniQue> oh yeah, I got the names mixed up
[14:47:11] <theorbtwo> I'm not 100% sure I could burn alumnium if I tried, but I am 100% certian that I can't without trying.
[14:47:14] <theorbtwo> TekniQue: No big.
[14:47:50] <TekniQue> some of the guys at the university built a printer out of some 8mm screws
[14:47:54] <TekniQue> and a 12mm plywood base
[14:47:57] <theorbtwo> ssi: I'm planning on starting by drilling an array of holes in an mdf bed, so I can easily bolt down whatever I try next.
[14:48:07] <ssi> that's a good start!
[14:48:21] <ssi> do you know what you're going to use as a spindle?
[14:48:38] <TekniQue> very unstable
[14:48:58] <TekniQue> doesn't even have bearings
[14:49:19] <theorbtwo> ssi: I've got a drill cable and a normal electric drill. It's got surprisingly little runout, considering.
[14:49:41] <ssi> I dunno how well that'll take side loads from milling
[14:50:12] <TekniQue> I learned the hard way how much side loads are involved
[14:50:14] <theorbtwo> The torque required to turn it in a circle is worryingly variable, though.
[14:50:54] <theorbtwo> Well, my initial plan is more CNC drilling then proper milling, partly because I don't have the right bits at all for doing it yet.
[14:51:11] <theorbtwo> After that, I'll move to mill-and-drill PCBs.
[14:51:57] <TekniQue> yeah you should easily be able to do that
[14:52:30] <The_Ball> anybody know if you can use a driver like 26LS31 or similar EIA-422 line levels in a multi drop setup?
[14:52:39] <JT-Work> pretty fast for sure
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[14:54:34] <The_Ball> ah, wiki says 1 driver 10 receivers, sweet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-422
[15:00:13] <ssi> anyone know what the 7i43's internal pullup value is?
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[15:08:17] <skunkworks_> ssi: I don't think the 7i43 has pull up reasistors. read page 3 of the 7i43 manual
[15:08:58] <skunkworks_> wait - yes it does when it is enabled by jumpers. wow - I should read more than the first sentence.. ;)
[15:08:59] <ssi> the board doesn't, but the fpga does
[15:09:04] <ssi> and they're 50-100k
[15:09:54] <ssi> I'm going to solve my runaway spindle problem with a 10k pulldown on my pwm and dir signals
[15:10:04] <ssi> when the board is unconfigured, those signals go weak high
[15:10:16] <ssi> 10k should pull them down to 10-20% of Vh, which is .33-.66v
[15:10:35] <ssi> they're feeding a 74hc14 at 5v, and its worst case low transition value is .9v, so that should be fine
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[15:23:22] <The_Ball> ssi, ah sounds like you got your pwm board somewhat working
[15:23:30] <ssi> yeah
[15:23:43] <ssi> put it on the bench and figured out why it was being an ass
[15:23:51] <ssi> the inputs are supposed to be optoisolated
[15:24:03] <ssi> but for whatever reason, output voltage at the analog terminal is directly related to input voltage at the opto
[15:24:15] <ssi> not just current, buffering at 3v3 didn't entirely work
[15:24:18] <ssi> I ended up having to buffer at 5v
[15:28:14] <The_Ball> sounds a bit odd, but if it works don't complain
[15:28:18] <ssi> yup
[15:28:42] <The_Ball> I think my vfd is at the post office for collection tomorrow, we'll see if I have better luck
[15:29:11] <ssi> the vfd itself was pretty simple
[15:29:18] <ssi> the first issue I had was the motor came wired wrong
[15:29:23] <ssi> and I had to decipher that mess
[15:29:34] <ssi> has drawings in the box for "high voltage" and "low voltage"
[15:29:38] <ssi> and came wired for "high voltage"
[15:29:46] <ssi> took me a while to realize that high voltage meant 460v
[15:29:52] <ssi> rewired it for low voltage and it worked MUCH better
[15:29:56] <ssi> :P
[15:30:08] <The_Ball> oh, not 220/110
[15:30:11] <ssi> right
[15:30:17] <ssi> 230/460
[15:30:36] <The_Ball> 230 is "high voltage" enough when you touch it
[15:30:41] <ssi> yep!
[15:30:54] <ssi> it's definitely not what springs to mind when I think "low voltage"
[15:31:00] <Jymmm> ssi: When all else fails... READ THE FUCKING WARNING STICKERS ;)
[15:31:52] <ssi> don't think there were any warning stickers!
[15:32:04] <ssi> 3 phase wiring is goofy
[15:32:29] <ssi> at any rate, it's done now, and I'll know better for the next one
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[15:34:47] <Jymmm> ssi: There weren't any stickers/labels that said the voltage ratings?
[15:39:03] <ssi> yea the nameplate itself says 230/460
[15:39:09] <ssi> which is why I decided to rewire it for 230
[15:39:24] <Jymmm> tiny type or BIG FAT LETTERS ?
[15:39:30] <ssi> tiny type
[15:39:34] <ssi> on the nameplate
[15:39:36] <Jymmm> I hate that.
[15:39:37] <ssi> by the serial number
[15:39:38] <ssi> heh
[15:39:57] <ssi> I imagine they ship it wired for 460 because it's safer to put 230v into a motor wired for 460 than the other way around
[15:40:02] <ssi> it just doesn't work for crap
[15:43:21] <cpresser> are you sure its 460Volts? Where does an AC-Line have such a Voltage?
[15:44:26] <anonimasu> industrial 3 phase
[15:45:06] <cpresser> which country?
[15:45:39] <skunkworks> we have 460 here in the us. Scares the crap out of me.
[15:46:00] <Jymmm> skunkworks: and you test the voltage with your tounge
[15:46:40] * cpresser need to read wikipeadia..
[15:47:02] <cpresser> european mains are 220/360Volts, so i figured yours would be 110/180
[15:47:17] <Jymmm> 110/220
[15:47:35] <TekniQue> 220/380
[15:47:43] <TekniQue> or 230/400 rather
[15:47:46] <Jymmm> 36-24-36
[15:47:56] <TekniQue> it's the root of 3
[15:47:57] <ssi> http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/192051/
[15:47:59] <ssi> that's the motor
[15:48:14] <skunkworks> normal house is 110/220 ish single phase. industrial could be 230/208/460 ish
[15:48:16] <ssi> 60/50Hz interchangeability (60Hz 230/460 V & 50Hz 200/400V)
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[15:52:24] <cpresser> just out of curiostity: in germany, main-power consits of three 'phase-lines' and one 'zero-line'. phase to zero is 230Volts, voltage between each of the pases is ~360-400Volts (the square-root of 3)
[15:53:11] <cpresser> so how is it possible to have 110, 220 and 460Volts at the same time?
[15:53:35] <ssi> we don't have 460v except in industrial facilities
[15:53:40] <cpresser> is there additional wiring for industrial?
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[16:12:30] <anonimasu> yes
[16:12:41] <anonimasu> because for normal house power you tap 2 phases
[16:12:53] <anonimasu> 115v per line
[16:13:13] <anonimasu> ~340v here in sweden
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[16:22:53] <TekniQue> anonimasu: in a delta system yes
[16:23:09] <TekniQue> but that is mostly used in very installations
[16:23:37] <TekniQue> for the past 40 years or so they've preferred a Y system
[16:23:53] <TekniQue> where normal users go to one phase and ground
[16:27:48] <cpresser> huh, i didnt think electrical installtions would differ so much across the world
[16:30:33] <TekniQue> they differ a lot
[16:30:45] <TekniQue> sometimes even within the same country
[16:30:57] <TekniQue> IIRC, Japan is part 60Hz and part 50Hz
[16:31:14] <jdhNC> with an AC-DC-AC bridge in the middle
[16:31:39] <TekniQue> and in Italy, the north uses Schuko sockets like Germany
[16:32:00] <TekniQue> while the south uses a 3 pin plug
[16:50:23] <cpresser> thats one good thing about the EuropeanUnion. these ancient legacy plugs are doomed to vanishe. even france now uses schuko :)
[16:50:39] <cpresser> but they have their own name for it^^
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[17:05:09] <Tom_itx> anonimasu
[17:12:11] <anonimasu> Tom_itx: ?
[17:12:21] <Tom_itx> 1 mpg arrived
[17:12:24] <anonimasu> nice
[17:16:07] <anonimasu> how long until the mesa boards arrive?
[17:17:52] <Tom_itx> friday
[17:17:57] <Tom_itx> brb
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[18:03:55] <Tom_itx> ok at 5v in, it puts out 3.48v
[18:04:31] <Tom_itx> A&B are normally low switching between detents. -A&-B are nomally high switching between detents.
[18:05:04] <Tom_itx> so it should be 3.3 or 5v tolerant
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[18:06:01] <Tom_itx> and of course the phase inverts depending on the direction
[18:06:30] * Tom_itx sends the storms toward JT-Shop
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[18:14:50] <Tom_itx> i wonder if i got the last one. they're out of stock now
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[19:06:33] <mrsunshine> shouldnt senind a pwm signal be more efficient then trying to sena 0 - 10v signal ? :)
[19:06:37] <mrsunshine> over cable that is
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[19:06:51] <mrsunshine> or what is more efficiant, trying to descide where to put the vfd control circuit stuff
[19:07:01] <mrsunshine> in the vfd cabinett or in the cnc controller cabinett =)
[19:07:10] <cradek> what do you mean by efficient?
[19:07:26] <ssi> as far as signals transmission, I don't think it makes a difference
[19:07:29] <ssi> wire count, however...
[19:07:42] <ssi> I have three lines from my mesa to my pwm->analog converter
[19:07:44] <ssi> pwm, dir, gnd
[19:07:55] <ssi> but four lines from the converter to the vfd
[19:08:02] <ssi> no, five actually
[19:08:10] <ssi> 0-10v speed signal with its own ground
[19:08:18] <ssi> then a fwd line, a rev line, and a common for those two
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[19:12:10] <mrsunshine> cradek, well, i dont want to send 1V and get out 0.8V :P
[19:12:17] <mrsunshine> voltage drops etc
[19:12:52] <mrsunshine> ssi, hmm, didnt think of that i need the fwd and rev also =)
[19:12:58] <mrsunshine> and maybe a stop also
[19:13:12] <mrsunshine> to cut the power to the spindle if emc tells a fault
[19:14:04] <ssi> yeah that's my next big project on my lathe... gotta get a system wide e-stop setup
[19:15:26] <mrsunshine> got a realy nice cabinett for the vfd now, can fit all i need in it + that it has 20A key operated power switch etc =)
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[19:15:42] <mrsunshine> so i can use that to get the power to the rest of the mill, so a key is needed to power it up =)
[19:17:05] <ssi> that's a good idea
[19:22:30] <skunkworks_> mrsunshine: the 10v is control. there should be very very little voltage drop as there is no real load.
[19:22:44] <mrsunshine> ahh true =)
[19:32:34] <ssi> my vfd allows me to switch between high impedance 0-10v control and 4-20mA control
[19:33:26] <ssi> so lets say we have ten feet of 24 ga wire for the control signal
[19:33:33] <ssi> 0.2567R per 10'
[19:33:50] <ssi> V = IR, 0.2567R * .020A
[19:34:09] <ssi> would drop 5mV for your 10v 20mA control signal
[19:34:14] <ssi> 0.995V
[19:34:15] <ssi> :D
[19:34:20] <ssi> er, 9.995V
[19:35:17] <jdhNC> get the special oxygen free Monster(tm) 00 gauge VFD control cable
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[19:41:52] <archivist> that costs more than the vfd he is driving :)
[19:42:11] <jdhNC> so does their high speed modem cable
[19:42:27] <archivist> jdhNC, and dont forget the Denon network cable
[19:44:01] <archivist> http://usa.denon.com/us/Product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=5840d55c-4077-4d9e-9421-36f204fb4587&SubId=85958de8-a123-4213-8ae1-bb6afaee9a97&ProductId=f7d26b3a-05a6-4724-a5c1-2a63642a6206
[19:44:23] <jdhNC> the arrows help
[19:44:33] <ssi> lord
[19:45:01] <ssi> don't forget audio grade power
[19:45:02] <ssi> http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/109/124
[19:45:10] <archivist> jdhNC, you need the arrows so the electrons dont lose their way
[19:45:27] <jdhNC> helps with attenuation
[19:47:43] <archivist> ssi, that reminds me, before gold plated mains plugs were around I was taking the p of an audiophile in the pub, a few months later he came in with a photocopy...I should have patented them
[19:50:13] <tom3p> tweek a liguid to make connections better ( sell to fisherman or audiophiles, they'll buy anything )
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[19:51:04] <anonimasu> tom3p: I figured my real problem out
[19:51:11] <anonimasu> tom3p: dirty scale + water in connectors
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[19:54:00] <tom3p> anonimasu, yes if you had that much cutting fluid in the zipper lipped scales, then the connectors also could get wet
[19:54:26] <tom3p> the zipper lips close before and behind the reader head
[19:56:49] <anonimasu> yep :)
[19:56:55] <anonimasu> I got errors on X also..
[19:56:56] <anonimasu> :D
[19:57:06] <anonimasu> but after cleaning my y is running very smooth
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[20:08:28] <Connor> What the heck is a Audio grade outlet ?
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[20:19:31] <ssi> Connor: a device designed to liberate foolish people from their money
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[20:19:51] <Connor> I guess so.
[20:19:57] <Connor> That's crazzy.
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[20:26:37] <ssi> think I could scrape in a 36" lathe bed with a 24" granite straightedge?
[20:26:51] <anonimasu> yes
[20:27:01] <ssi> good
[20:27:08] <ssi> cause a 24" granite straightedge is $160
[20:27:14] <ssi> but a 36" one is closer to $1000
[20:27:25] <anonimasu> but care is needed
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[20:27:55] <ssi> whoa andy's back
[20:28:08] <andypugh> Ahoy me hearties!
[20:28:15] <ssi> how was your trip?
[20:28:27] <andypugh> Great. Much better than I expected.
[20:28:31] <ssi> excellent :)
[20:28:33] <JT-Shop> YEA! Andy is back :)
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[20:30:49] <andypugh> 524 miles in 4 days. Gosport-Alderney-Lizard Point-Eddystone-Brighton-Gosport. Working 3 hours on, 3 hours off, 24 hours a day. With no showers. No, I have no idea why it was fun.
[20:33:29] <JT-Shop> must have been something interesting going on
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[20:35:24] <andypugh> http://lecture.umd.edu/detsmediasite/SilverlightPlayer/Default.aspx?peid=dae7b8b7686a4639a0faa0f58ebd08651d
[20:36:13] <andypugh> (Probably hard to view in Ubuntu as it needs Silverlight (Or Moonlight)
[20:40:48] <andypugh> Fascinating drive system, just lengths of string with enough wound on the drums for 60 seconds of flight.
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[21:04:44] <JT-Shop> crap, I can't do anything without fsaking it up any more... I need a brain transplant or a lobotomy or something :/
[21:06:02] <Connor> What did you frack up now ?
[21:09:56] <Tom_itx> Connor have you hooked up your mpg yet?
[21:10:13] <Connor> Not to the machine.. I had it hooked up to my Arduino play around with it..
[21:10:21] <Connor> Made a sudo DRO setup..
[21:10:57] <Connor> debating weather to try to use the serial to send stuff to EMC, or just use parport inputs and have the pendant handle the DRO and switch settings.
[21:11:02] <Tom_itx> i gotta find my quad code
[21:11:12] <Connor> quad code ?
[21:11:27] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna borrow the signals for the lcd display
[21:11:48] <Connor> I'm not following now...
[21:11:59] <Connor> what signals are you barrowing, and what quad code ?
[21:12:10] <Tom_itx> quadrature read for the avr
[21:12:12] <Connor> <--- Has had a bad day.
[21:12:26] <Connor> Ah. okay.
[21:12:34] <Tom_itx> just for the display
[21:12:56] <Connor> what does the code look like so far ?
[21:13:04] <Tom_itx> an empty file
[21:13:05] <Tom_itx> :D
[21:13:10] <Connor> Ha.
[21:13:16] <Tom_itx> i wrote some a long time ago i just need to find it
[21:13:38] <Tom_itx> using the 2 external interrups
[21:14:07] <Connor> I yanked some off of arduino.cc.. played around with A count, B Direction, (100 count) 200 count.. and full A+B
[21:14:44] <Connor> Yea. I found that even though the MPG has detents.. it's still possible to get missed steps or strange things if you don't do full A+B
[21:15:43] <Tom_itx> i viewed it on my analizer
[21:15:44] <Connor> So, I'm still trying to figure out if sending it via serial will work.. or if direct wired is best..
[21:15:56] <Tom_itx> it's a typical quadrature signal
[21:16:06] <Connor> Oh yea. 4 ticks per detent.
[21:16:15] <Tom_itx> i'm going to direct wire mine
[21:16:28] <Tom_itx> i'm not about to introduce any errors but i can borrow the signal
[21:16:49] <Connor> what signal are you borrowing ?
[21:16:54] <Tom_itx> like jt says, you're not fixed on the display when you're using it anyway
[21:17:16] <Tom_itx> so having the lcd isn't really critical for me, i just wanted to try it
[21:17:38] <Tom_itx> AB signals
[21:18:40] <Connor> okay. The other thing you might do.. is hardwire the E-Stop switch if your going to do one. I figure, if I'm going to direct wire AB, I might as well do E-Stop as well.. I'll get +5v and Gnd from the USB.
[21:18:55] <Tom_itx> i plan to
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[21:19:21] <Tom_itx> dinner
[21:19:40] <Connor> I've been looking to see if I could get a USB Type A to B with another cable siameased with it
[21:19:42] <Connor> siamesed
[21:20:56] <Connor> then again, I may use a proprietary connector and custom cable, and use a USB header on the mobo.
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[21:22:16] <Connor> question, can you have more than 1 pin on the E-STop in series, or would it be better to splice the estop wire and loop it through the pendant.. only issue I have with that is, if I unplug the pendant, the machine would be in E-Stop unless I make a by-pass plug.
[21:22:48] <Connor> or a make-break style connector that will auto bypass when you unplug, like some power jacks do.
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[22:18:30] <anonimasu> huh..
[22:18:44] <anonimasu> estop should be hardwired to kill power
[22:18:53] <anonimasu> no exceptions for that
[22:19:14] <anonimasu> tho, you could wire it through a relay so that when you plug the pendant the relay redirects the loop out on the pendant
[22:20:12] <andypugh> Killing the power might not always stop the machine fastest.
[22:20:56] <anonimasu> no, but the level 0 is required to do so
[22:21:02] <andypugh> Then you get into arguments about what is best, fastest or most dependable.
[22:21:05] <anonimasu> (if you are doing it per specs)
[22:21:50] <anonimasu> also on a crash there is the issue that a axis can get stuck and estop can fix that condition
[22:22:07] <anonimasu> so you can back your table away
[22:24:36] <Tom_itx> so mdi overrides estop?
[22:25:00] <anonimasu> no
[22:25:02] <anonimasu> never
[22:25:13] <Tom_itx> i didn't think so
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[22:59:41] <Gensor> Andy: 5i23, 7i44, and (3-4) 8i20s?
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[23:16:29] <andypugh> You need to talk to Pete really.
[23:16:45] <andypugh> But I do have exactly that combination working.
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[23:25:51] <Gensor> thanks andy
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[23:27:11] <Gensor> http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=53801
[23:27:40] <aggrav8d> yay! epoxy did the trick, I just cut 1/8" x 80ipm with a 1/8" 2 flute and 20 minutes later I had a perfect cut.
[23:31:13] <Tom_itx> nice. not extreme welding needed
[23:31:19] <Tom_itx> no*
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[23:52:51] <andypugh> Gensor: In that forum thread you failed to explain that the current limiting resistor was an NTC device, ie it starts off high-resistance, then falls to low resistance.
[23:56:21] <Gensor> Andy: true... what can I say, I am a fish out of water. I thought you might have some value for the discussion tho
[23:58:00] <andypugh> Sorry, no. I am prepared to risk frying myself with my incompetence, but not to suggest that others take the same risks with my ideas.
[23:59:33] <Gensor> honestly I do like the NTC option better