#emc | Logs for 2011-05-01

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[01:10:22] <Connor> Someone said something about Tramming the head on the mill.. Is that the process of making sure it's parallel to the table ?
[01:26:33] <Jymmm> A rite of passage for mill owners is the tramming process, where the head is adjusted to be (almost) perfectly perpendicular to the table. .
[01:27:22] <Jymmm> I'd prefer to use a string bobbin, but I've never done it on a mill
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[01:51:20] <atom1> that double dial tool looked nice for that
[02:02:21] <toastydeath> tram should be checked pretty much every time the mill is used?
[02:02:30] <toastydeath> you get pretty fast at it in time
[02:03:57] <toastydeath> I just use one of my dti's
[02:04:16] <toastydeath> using a double indicator seemed excessive
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[02:05:29] <toastydeath> you don't really need more than +/- .030" to tram a mill head
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[03:01:14] <atom1> it may be excessive but it looked neat. i use an indicator as well
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[03:38:54] <Connor> Looking at the way the G0704 is setup.. Looks like it can be used as a make shift lathe... That's cool
[03:43:55] <toastydeath> i want to make a manual swiss lathe
[03:43:59] <toastydeath> i think that would be neat.
[03:44:09] <toastydeath> or even a multislide emc swiss lathe
[03:44:12] <toastydeath> one day.
[03:45:28] <ds3> emc???? not cam controlled?
[03:46:09] <toastydeath> cam control is a pain in the ass for small runs
[03:46:57] <toastydeath> there are many cnc swiss lathes now, but they usually only have one or two slides per chuck rather than the 7-8 on cam driven ones
[03:51:12] <Connor> What the heck are you all talking about?
[03:52:26] <toastydeath> ?
[03:52:34] <ds3> make it so it can use an acrylic cam...then laser cut them as needed
[03:52:52] <Connor> no cam controlled ?
[03:56:08] <toastydeath> ds3, they're usually milled
[03:56:30] <toastydeath> but even so, it's insane to make a set of cams for so few parts
[03:57:24] <toastydeath> when i could just fire up mastercam or whatever and load a program into a lathe that way and cut the four parts
[03:57:41] <toastydeath> Connor, there are some machines that use cams, like your car's valves use cams
[03:58:11] <toastydeath> instead of using screws to drive the axis, the cams rotate in sync with the spindle, and the axes ride back and forth on the cam
[03:58:12] <Connor> As programming?
[03:58:19] <toastydeath> yeah
[03:58:30] <toastydeath> these machines are much faster than cnc
[03:58:46] <Connor> Yea, that sounds like something you use if your make 1000's of the same thing.
[03:58:51] <Connor> factory or something.
[03:58:53] <toastydeath> yes
[04:01:49] <toastydeath> but some types of cam driven machines have interesting design features that make them useful for specific types of part turning
[04:02:07] <toastydeath> like swiss lathes can turn very very long, skinny parts easily
[04:02:25] <toastydeath> because the tools stay still and part moves past them, through a support
[04:04:24] <Connor> Two options with the 704. Make a tool holder that bolts to Head.. and remove the head and place it on the table.. that allows the use of a end stock.. OR.. bolt the tool holder to the bed.. Either would work.. depends on operation and how easily you need to change everything otu.
[04:05:18] <toastydeath> Connor, what machine are you talking about
[04:05:34] <Connor> Grizzly G0704..
[04:05:38] <Connor> Or BF20
[04:05:43] <Connor> which ever you want to call it.
[04:07:13] <toastydeath> you ideally want to mount a bunch of toolholders.
[04:07:37] <toastydeath> you could use that machine for very light chucker type work
[04:09:05] <Connor> Yea.. aka Mini Lathe..
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[05:35:25] <Gensor> any circuit wizards that are comfortable with high voltage power supplies?
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[05:43:19] <awallin> Gensor: not if it's a switching-mode psu and you are talking 100+ Volts...
[05:43:42] <Jymmm> 10,000 Volts
[05:43:48] <awallin> :)
[05:43:59] <Jymmm> typically
[05:57:40] <Gensor> http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=53801
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[07:31:53] <mrsunshine> hmm, never thought of it, but i dont actualy think my end mills are "drilling" bits ...
[07:31:55] <mrsunshine> hmm
[07:32:04] <mrsunshine> no wonder in that case it lifts the head when i plunge :P
[07:49:27] <archivist> you need a slot drill to mill and plunge
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[07:58:29] <mrsunshine> archivist, its mills that cuts on the sides, but do not have an extended flute i think for plunging
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[08:10:16] <Eartaker> sooo why EMC over Mach 3?
[08:10:34] <Gensor> closed loop
[08:11:30] <Eartaker> ?
[08:11:36] <archivist> 9 axis capability
[08:11:44] <archivist> and srew cutting
[08:11:48] <archivist> screw
[08:12:14] <archivist> and better gcode language looping
[08:12:51] <Eartaker> I will never use over 4 axis and I thought you could do thread milling on Mach 3? I have always looked at EMC but never relly understood why to change over
[08:12:57] <archivist> more devs and open source
[08:13:25] <archivist> I have 5 axis on one machine
[08:13:26] <Eartaker> hmm, I like how Mach in all is one screen in EMC the same?
[08:13:40] <Eartaker> you have a 5 axis CNC?
[08:13:48] <archivist> yes
[08:13:52] <Eartaker> nice
[08:14:19] <Eartaker> Im working on a ZX-45 right now.... 3 axis with pnumatic crawbar
[08:14:34] <Eartaker> pneumatic
[08:14:46] <Eartaker> drawbar
[08:14:53] <Eartaker> I will eventualy add a 4th axis
[08:15:30] <archivist> when I added the 4th I noticed how often I wanted the 4th tilted, then the 5th
[08:15:57] <Eartaker> what kind of machine did you mod?
[08:16:48] <archivist> I built a mill from bits of machines and scraps
[08:17:12] <Eartaker> oh
[08:17:21] <archivist> the spindle is a lathe headstock
[08:17:28] <Eartaker> lol nice
[08:18:18] <Eartaker> my tore off my new mill will have a 2HP motor ran by VFD
[08:18:48] <Eartaker> ughh... digard "my tor off"
[08:19:02] <Eartaker> started to say something else byt erased most of it
[08:19:06] <Eartaker> but
[08:22:52] <anonimasu> Eartaker: the biggest reason to change over is that emc does true closed loop
[08:22:54] <archivist> the other real difference is servo control is implemented in emc
[08:23:03] <anonimasu> real servo control with feedback
[08:24:13] <anonimasu> it's a different ballgame then mach3.
[08:27:48] <Eartaker> wht do you mean by closed loop?
[08:27:59] <Eartaker> my new machine uses 1100oz servos
[08:34:48] <Eartaker> I huess i need to just give EMC a try
[08:34:51] <Eartaker> guess
[08:36:04] <Eartaker> downloading now
[08:42:28] <archivist> how are your servos controlled
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[08:56:15] <mrsunshine> ahh seems they are center drilling .. good =)
[08:57:20] <anonimasu> Eartaker: it's not quite plug and play with that setup
[08:57:36] <anonimasu> Eartaker: the difference is that with closed loop the control has position feedback from the motors
[08:58:17] <anonimasu> Eartaker: it's not just plugging and playing without special hardware with that kind of setup
[08:58:39] <anonimasu> if you use mach now, then you have a step servo system most likely and that's not really anything different then steppers
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[09:17:54] <mrsunshine> i wonder what the cost would be to get special stuff casted in cast iron =)
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[13:14:27] <JT-Shop> and the sheetrock party resumes
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[14:50:30] <archivist> demo ngc files must state tooling and machine needed to make else embarrassing videos get put up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDOWhg4R8a0
[14:51:11] <archivist> the pawn bit me too on my little lathe too, it only just managed it
[14:54:39] <Gensor> anyone using a usb sata hard drive docking station with ubunta?
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[14:58:40] <anonimasu> heh...
[14:58:44] <anonimasu> archivist: user stupidity
[14:58:52] <anonimasu> that's a _light_ cut
[14:59:10] <archivist> not for a tine machine
[15:00:40] <anonimasu> now is we had a roughing cycle instead.. then the user could set max depth of a pass..
[15:01:22] <anonimasu> *hint*
[15:01:55] <atom1> toastydeath i ran a row of 'cam' machines for a while
[15:01:59] <atom1> old ww2 stuff
[15:02:08] <atom1> 6 and 8 p
[15:02:11] <atom1> spindle
[15:03:10] <atom1> definitely production machines
[15:03:31] <anonimasu> tho, my little lathe could do that kind of cut, barely...
[15:03:40] <atom1> (reading the morning log)
[15:03:44] <anonimasu> but in the _real_ world :D they are normal ones
[15:07:59] <atom1> http://nova-machinery.com/inventory/picture/101830-2.html
[15:08:13] <atom1> http://nova-machinery.com/inventory/picture/101830-5.html
[15:08:58] <atom1> cross slide for every position
[15:09:11] <atom1> we had a couple blocked off for special operations
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[15:09:23] <atom1> one had a drill and tap cross slide
[15:09:37] <atom1> the spindles have brakes
[15:09:45] <atom1> for individual positions
[15:10:17] <SWPLinux> Gensor: yes, I have used both USB and ESATA docking stations with Ubuntu
[15:11:06] <SWPLinux> the only problem I have had was with a USB3 device, in that it didn't want to stay in USB3 mode (it would still work, but at USB2 speeds)
[15:13:37] <Jymmm> SWPLinux:
[15:14:41] <Gensor> SWPLinux: are you using the ATOM 510 with a docking station?
[15:15:10] <SWPLinux> no
[15:15:15] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: yes?
[15:15:28] <Jymmm> docking station? on an atom system?
[15:15:43] <SWPLinux> USB connected drive bay
[15:15:54] <Jymmm> oh
[15:15:56] <SWPLinux> I don't see any reason why it shouldn't wokr
[15:15:57] <SWPLinux> work
[15:16:09] <Gensor> ya, a pci express card on an atom 510 that supports 2 esata connection for docking station with ubunta???
[15:16:25] <Jymmm> they have usb LCD's now
[15:16:30] <SWPLinux> that's not the same thing as your original question :)
[15:16:47] <SWPLinux> you asked about a USB SATA hard drive dock ...
[15:16:50] <Gensor> I know, im trying to figure out some options
[15:16:56] <SWPLinux> for what?
[15:17:05] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: you eating in la?
[15:17:09] <SWPLinux> I wouldn't use one as my main boot drive, if that's what you're thinking
[15:17:09] <Gensor> enhanced multi boot
[15:17:39] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: I'll have a few hours at the airport, but there isn't much there that's fit to eat (unless you leave security, which I won't want to do)
[15:17:49] <SWPLinux> so I may want a light bite after I arrive in SJC
[15:18:02] <Gensor> so thumbs up using the usb conection for sata dock with ubunta
[15:18:14] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: side O beef it is!
[15:18:24] <Jymmm> the whole side
[15:18:30] <SWPLinux> sure, just look at the reviews and make sure you don't get one where people say "doesn't work with Linux"
[15:18:34] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: ok, sounds good
[15:18:46] <SWPLinux> who needs shrimp or chickens anyway
[15:18:57] <SWPLinux> (too heavy for me_
[15:18:59] <SWPLinux> )
[15:18:59] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: LEt me see whats open on a sunday that late
[15:19:01] <Gensor> I'll take some
[15:19:47] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: 7:00-ish, shouldn't be too late
[15:19:57] <Jymmm> ok
[15:20:15] <SWPLinux> brb - gotta get some more coffee
[15:24:36] <SWPLinux> man. I like Embassy Suites, but they may be getting too "family friendly"
[15:24:58] <SWPLinux> too many shrieking kids playing "elevator tag"
[15:26:11] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: just give them an evil stare
[15:26:35] <SWPLinux> well, it was a bunch of nice cute little girls, so I couldn't really do that
[15:26:56] <SWPLinux> actually, the shriekers and the ones playing tag were different sets of kids
[15:27:28] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Taquiera
[15:28:32] <SWPLinux> www.taqueriassanjose.com ?
[15:28:47] <Jymmm> Close =)
[15:29:07] <Jymmm> a lil hole in the wall I ve been going to for years
[15:29:17] <SWPLinux> ok
[15:29:50] <Jymmm> around the corner from downtown
[15:30:08] <SWPLinux> ok, sounds good to me
[15:31:27] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: They have a serious salsa bar too
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[15:32:24] <Jymmm> WB
[15:32:33] <SWPLinux> argh. stupid wifi
[15:32:45] <SWPLinux> thanks
[15:32:54] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: They have a serious salsa bar too
[15:33:04] <SWPLinux> cool. I like that
[15:33:27] <SWPLinux> you do mean the sauces, not the dances, right?
[15:33:30] <SWPLinux> :)
[15:33:37] <Jymmm> yes
[15:33:43] <SWPLinux> cool. I like that
[15:34:43] <SWPLinux> so, I'll be on United flight 6519. should arrive at 6:44, but you never know. If anything changes, I'll call you
[15:34:53] <SWPLinux> same number as earlier this year?
[15:36:11] * robin_sz perks up
[15:36:25] <robin_sz> is there a emc fest going on?
[15:36:49] <SWPLinux> nope, Embedded Systems Conference
[15:36:56] <robin_sz> ah righty
[15:36:58] <SWPLinux> I'm attending, and Jymmm lives there
[15:37:02] <robin_sz> got it
[15:37:13] <robin_sz> I played with a few neat ones this last year
[15:37:28] <robin_sz> the Bluewater systems "snapper" stuff is good
[15:37:33] <SWPLinux> neat whats?
[15:37:39] <robin_sz> embedded stuff
[15:38:23] <SWPLinux> ah
[15:38:32] <robin_sz> and I played a lot with the TI Stellaris stuff too
[15:39:33] <robin_sz> OLED + RFID reader + GSM module + stellaris micro => web app, you can probably work the rest out
[15:39:37] <SWPLinux> yeah, I've seen that stuff around
[15:39:50] <robin_sz> the bluewater stuff is very very good
[15:39:58] <robin_sz> but non cheap
[15:40:13] <robin_sz> the stellaris stuff is cheap good and fast, but non linux
[15:42:09] <robin_sz> http://www.designarm.com/products/snapper-single-board-computers/snapper-9260.html
[15:42:33] <robin_sz> got a couple of those in for evaluation, very impressed ... full linux system on a SODIMM card
[15:42:38] <SWPLinux> heh. it's amaxing how many ARM chip and board variants there are these days
[15:42:43] <robin_sz> yep
[15:42:43] <SWPLinux> or amazinv
[15:42:45] <SWPLinux> g
[15:42:49] <robin_sz> that
[15:42:53] <SWPLinux> more or less :)
[15:43:06] <robin_sz> I was just stunned how much it would do
[15:43:24] <robin_sz> I was going to write some crappy basic webserver for the user interface
[15:43:43] <robin_sz> ended up running thttpd + php + sqlite
[15:43:51] <robin_sz> no problems, 200ms page load
[15:44:24] <robin_sz> and some C to talk to a fingerprint reader
[15:44:41] <robin_sz> (proper one)
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[16:04:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: bouncy bouncy
[16:06:25] <SWPLinux> yeah
[16:06:30] <SWPLinux> it's getting painful
[16:07:05] <SWPLinux> I may not have a chance to (IRC) chat later - the lounges are all on TMobile, which is blocked or something
[16:07:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Time for 4G?
[16:07:17] <SWPLinux> so I'll call you later
[16:07:19] <SWPLinux> might be
[16:07:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: use the webchat
[16:07:36] <SWPLinux> I'll wait until July, when I'm eligible for a discounted new phone
[16:07:41] <SWPLinux> it also doesn't work
[16:07:58] <Jymmm> you sure?
[16:08:01] <SWPLinux> it's just a java client, so it still runs on the local PC, not the server
[16:08:13] <SWPLinux> yep, I tried it when I first had the problem in the lounges
[16:08:18] <Jymmm> oh
[16:08:40] <SWPLinux> coincidentally, verizon mobile was also blocked, so I couldn't use my phone either
[16:08:45] <SWPLinux> I think that's working now though
[16:08:48] <Jymmm> http://webchat.freenode.net/
[16:09:06] <SWPLinux> oh. I haven't tried that one. I was talking about the browser client on linuxcnc.org
[16:09:32] <Jymmm> try it now
[16:09:34] <SWPLinux> I'll try webchat from the LAX lounge
[16:09:50] <SWPLinux> it won't tell me anything now, since I can connect with chatzilla from here
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[16:10:38] <Jymmm> ah
[16:12:14] <Gensor> it locked up my browser
[16:14:04] <SWPLinux> "it"?
[16:14:15] <Gensor> your webchat
[16:14:32] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: will there be a computer store open this evening? I may need to buy a new travel mouse (the cable on this one is funky)
[16:14:48] <SWPLinux> webchat on freenode or the client on linuxcnc.org?
[16:15:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: frys closes at 7pm
[16:17:18] <Gensor> the webchat on freenode
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[16:17:55] <Gensor> later
[16:18:36] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: ok. maybe another day
[16:19:02] <SWPLinux> Gensor: interesting. when did it lock up? (after you entered the username/captcha info?)
[16:19:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: bluetooth?
[16:19:22] <SWPLinux> no
[16:19:32] <SWPLinux> USB with retractable cable
[16:19:48] <SWPLinux> and a wheel (I haven't found one that also has extra buttons for forward/back)
[16:19:48] <Jymmm> you no like bluetooth?
[16:19:56] <SWPLinux> no. I sometimes use it on airplanes
[16:20:03] <Jymmm> ah
[16:20:54] <Jymmm> pink?
[16:21:00] <SWPLinux> hmmm. no
[16:21:08] <Jymmm> wearable?
[16:21:11] <SWPLinux> though I would be able to tel lit's mine
[16:21:20] <SWPLinux> no, not necessary
[16:22:36] <Jymmm> spongebob?
[16:22:41] <SWPLinux> no
[16:22:45] <SWPLinux> absolutely not
[16:22:48] <SWPLinux> never
[16:23:03] <Jymmm> Pretty Pretty Princes?
[16:23:17] <SWPLinux> better than spongebob
[16:23:29] <Jymmm> http://www.frys.com/product/6228040?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
[16:23:45] <Jymmm> http://www.frys.com/product/6228070?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
[16:25:31] <Jymmm> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104384
[16:25:52] <SWPLinux> the second one is more or less what I have (I have the Gigaware version, from Radio Shack)
[16:28:10] <Jymmm> Mice are subjective things, just giving options
[16:29:46] <SWPLinux> yep
[16:31:35] <Jymmm> I love my trackballs =)
[16:34:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: http://us.kensington.com/html/17912.html
[16:34:40] <SWPLinux> ok, time to head out. see you later. on IRC if webchat works, and by phone if not
[16:35:02] <Jymmm> k
[16:37:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: one of by land, two if by sea
[16:37:21] <Jymmm> s/of/if/
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[17:11:06] <mrsunshine> hmm, gonna make a new lost foam casting but its alot more complex then it usaly is :/
[17:11:21] <mrsunshine> if something goes wrong its crap! :P
[17:11:25] <mrsunshine> dammit i hate this =)
[17:13:34] <DaViruz> no you don't
[17:13:40] <DaViruz> or you wouldn't be doing it
[17:13:58] <mrsunshine> huh ? :P
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[18:12:52] <JT-Shop> done
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[18:54:02] <mrsunshine> baaah i hate the freakin "cutting length" of mills
[18:54:09] <mrsunshine> i need bigger, 25mm does not cut it
[18:54:12] <mrsunshine> nor does 10
[18:54:21] <mrsunshine> when the shank is bigger then the freakin cutting surface ...
[18:54:22] <mrsunshine> :/
[18:55:45] <archivist> thats when you need 5 axis and come in at a different angle
[18:57:39] <mrsunshine> mm :P
[18:58:05] <mrsunshine> but then the machine would cost well ... my both right and left hand and maybe my head + that the software would cost most of my internal organs
[18:58:47] <archivist> nope, build it yourself as you are now
[18:59:02] <archivist> just takes longer
[18:59:38] <mrsunshine> archivist, yeah ... but still my little mill has cost me about 4200 usd so far... given that i had to start totaly without tools and everything ... and its not even complete :P
[19:00:00] <archivist> I had missing axes when I started
[19:00:04] <Connor> What kind of mill do you have?
[19:00:12] <mrsunshine> its a small X1
[19:00:15] <mrsunshine> that im converting
[19:00:23] <Connor> 4200 USD ?
[19:00:30] <mrsunshine> thing is that i do not have any of the machines that i need at home
[19:00:33] <Connor> What the heck did you spend it all on ?
[19:00:33] <mrsunshine> so have to borrow etc
[19:00:36] <archivist> I was gear cutting with 2 axes at the start, hand working z
[19:00:49] <mrsunshine> Connor, tools etc for the mill, electronic.. as in motors, cnc computer, drivers
[19:01:23] <archivist> my cost was steppers and drivers too, plus some scrap costs
[19:01:24] <mrsunshine> the actual mill and electronics doesnt add up so much, but with totaly no tools to use with it it has cost me to buy stuff for it also :P
[19:01:28] <Connor> I was going to ask.. What's needed to tap using a CNC ?
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[19:01:35] <mrsunshine> and if i build something else im sure there will be some other taper etc etc :P
[19:01:45] <Connor> Yea, I don't consider tooling as part of the machine cost.
[19:01:57] <archivist> Connor, feedback from the spindle
[19:02:05] <Connor> I went with a R8 based Mill.
[19:02:24] <archivist> and some control of the spindle motor
[19:02:27] <Connor> archivist: Speed Only, or quadratic ?
[19:02:36] <mrsunshine> Connor, well just the electronics etc for it has cost me about 1300 usd + the actual mill for like 1000 usd :p
[19:03:16] <Connor> I'm waiting for mine to show up.. I'll see how much I end up spending on it when it's said and done.
[19:03:17] <archivist> best is a,b and z full feedback fo rtapping
[19:03:22] <mrsunshine> ahh and more, 300 usd for the vfd
[19:03:34] <mrsunshine> then new spindle motor, pulleys etc for that
[19:03:36] <archivist> I scrounged vfd's
[19:03:48] <mrsunshine> "scrounged" .. what is that ?
[19:03:50] <archivist> free motor too
[19:04:01] <archivist> obtained for 0 cost
[19:04:06] <mrsunshine> ok the motor was actualy free for me also, just had to change bearings in it :P
[19:04:26] <mrsunshine> it all adds up :/
[19:04:49] <atom1> what sort of head is handiest for an A axis rotary head?
[19:04:54] <atom1> collet or other?
[19:04:58] <archivist> spread over time the cost does not feel so bad
[19:05:15] <mrsunshine> archivist, nah .. but i want it working :P
[19:05:29] <mrsunshine> now im working on like 5th iteration of motor mount for it also :P
[19:05:34] <archivist> atom1, depends on work you indent doing
[19:05:37] <mrsunshine> so more pulleys needs to be bought and toothed belt :P
[19:06:25] <atom1> archivist yeah i know. just trying to get a little feedback on what ppl have really
[19:06:55] <archivist> I used a vertex, it has a morse taper hole
[19:07:12] <atom1> 2 or 3 taper?
[19:07:36] <archivist> there is some backlash so I write my gcode carefully
[19:08:15] <archivist> 2 iirc
[19:08:25] <atom1> i was thinking maybe of a cog belt driven with reduction to a stepper
[19:08:53] <atom1> for better resolution but the belt might cause too much backlash too
[19:09:21] <archivist> also you may be able to rotate the stepper with cutting force
[19:09:38] <atom1> that's one reason for the reduction
[19:09:59] <mrsunshine> Connor, and remember .. im from sweden .. i get to pay about 3x the amount for stuff that you do :P
[19:10:01] <atom1> maybe a worm might be better
[19:10:19] <mrsunshine> ok i dont know where you are from but :P
[19:10:22] <archivist> there is no possibility of reverse drive through the vertex, it has a 90 to 1 reduction
[19:10:45] <atom1> heh that's some serious reduction
[19:10:59] <Connor> I'm in the US
[19:11:17] <archivist> higher reduction is better, there can be serious worm errors too
[19:11:20] <mrsunshine> yeah, so then i pay 2 - 3 times the amount for like everything :P
[19:11:23] <mrsunshine> it feels like =)
[19:11:32] <mrsunshine> never been shopping so cheap as when i was to the us
[19:11:47] <mrsunshine> hell i could buy 4 pairs of jeans for the same as maybe 1 here ...
[19:11:49] <mrsunshine> etc =)
[19:12:23] <mrsunshine> and problem with buying over seas is that i first get to pay alot of shipment then i get to pay our taxes + tolls ...
[19:12:34] <mrsunshine> :/
[19:17:38] <Connor> But the upside is.. You probably have a better health care plan than I do. :)
[19:18:15] <mrsunshine> heh :P
[19:18:24] <mrsunshine> problem is that i never get sick enough to go to that damn place :P
[19:18:35] <mrsunshine> its like once every 5 years i have to go in for something
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[19:18:37] <atom1> don't pay for it then
[19:18:39] <Connor> and probably longer/better vacation time.
[19:18:43] <mrsunshine> atom1, no choice :P
[19:18:52] <mrsunshine> taxes ... :)
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[19:57:06] <JT-Shop> sheetrock done-check, insulation done-check, nap-done-check, cold beer check!
[19:57:38] <archivist> yo mekin me thirsty!
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[19:59:07] * JT-Shop hands archivist a pint
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[20:04:21] <JT-Shop> I'm one step closer to moving into the new shop :)
[20:04:38] <Jymmm> take two and you'll be there faster
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[20:51:47] <WesBaker> I've got an existing implementation of emc. I retrofited a controller on a CNC router a year or two ago. It works well. However, I can't get it to run smooth toolpath and maintain programmed velocity when the program generates hundreds of near-tangential short line moves around a curve.
[20:52:23] <WesBaker> how can I make it look ahead and realize that the direction of the vectors is not changing so the machine doesn't need to slow down as if it were making right-angle turns?
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[20:56:01] <WesBaker> I'm at the machine and can test any ideas on-the-spot and provide feedback.
[20:57:51] <archivist> look at http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G61,-G61.1,-G64:
[20:58:17] <archivist> use G64
[20:58:55] <archivist> or something in between to suit your work
[20:59:29] <JT-Shop> WesBaker: G64Pn is what you want
[21:00:03] <WesBaker> OK, I will go to that doc now and read. Like I say, I'm at the machine. I have a "rough" program that demonstrates the smooth curve from a bunch of segments. I can test and report back quickly.
[21:01:43] <JT-Shop> WesBaker: and read this short page http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_User_Concepts.html
[21:03:53] * JT-Shop opens a couple of pints and passes one to archivist
[21:04:10] <archivist> I cant reach :(
[21:06:00] <WesBaker> Sweet. Magic.
[21:06:01] <Jymmm> the pint or the url?
[21:06:18] <Jymmm> nm
[21:12:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: it doesn't mention HAL
[21:13:20] <JT-Shop> what doesn't?
[21:13:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the link you gave.
[21:13:49] <JT-Shop> it's not supposed to
[21:14:31] <Jymmm> Oh, it's a good writeup and explanation, thought HAL would be a good addition to it
[21:14:55] <JT-Shop> we don't want to confuse things...
[21:15:32] <Jymmm> Isn;t that a "EMC Concepts" page?
[21:16:15] <JT-Shop> USER Concepts
[21:16:55] <Jymmm> o-tay panky =)
[21:18:55] <Jymmm> Should tool wear be on there too?
[21:19:06] <Jymmm> backlash?
[21:19:25] <Jymmm> I really liked it, just think it should be expanded some.
[21:21:01] <WesBaker> Oh my gosh. Now I've done it. I let ubuntu update all the packages it wanted to and now emc won't start at all!
[21:21:20] <JT-Shop> did you update from 2.3 to 2.4?
[21:22:12] <WesBaker> I don't know. I just let ubuntu's "synaptic package manager" do it's thing. And now I'm toast.
[21:22:20] <WesBaker> Does this text mean anything to somebody:
[21:22:24] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/5i20.ini
[21:22:24] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/5i20.ini.bak
[21:22:24] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/autosave.halscope
[21:22:24] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/axis0halscope.log
[21:22:24] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/axis1P1halscope.log
[21:22:24] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/axis1P2halscope.log
[21:22:24] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/axis1P4halscope.log
[21:22:25] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/axis1P5halscope.log
[21:22:25] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/axis2.halscope
[21:22:26] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/axis2halscope.log
[21:22:26] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/axis3p20halscope.log
[21:22:27] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/Axis0.halscope
[21:22:27] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/Axis1.halscope
[21:22:28] <WesBaker> /home/wes/emc2/configs/hm2-servo/emc.nml
[21:22:28] <JT-Shop> or did you update the OS from 8.04 to someghing
[21:22:40] <WesBaker> ignore paste. let me try again to paste the error
[21:23:48] <WesBaker> the emc dialog box says 2.3.5 in the lower left corner -- before it throws the error
[21:24:18] <mhaberler> are you on 8.04 or on 10.04 LTS?
[21:24:30] <JT-Shop> pastebin the error and post a link here
[21:24:32] <mhaberler> it might be you went beyond the 'LTS' release
[21:24:57] <WesBaker> I am on 8.04
[21:25:10] <WesBaker> I don't know what LTS means
[21:25:46] <mhaberler> 'long time support'
[21:25:58] <WesBaker> I'm afraid I'd have to have some description on "pastebin" too. I think you are asking for a screen-shot.
[21:26:05] <mhaberler> you are not supposed to upgrade beyond that
[21:26:15] <WesBaker> is there a way to go back?
[21:26:28] <mhaberler> I dont think so
[21:26:50] <WesBaker> how would I put the LTS release back on top of what I've done now.
[21:26:55] <JT-Shop> WesBaker: what does System/about ubuntu say
[21:27:04] <mhaberler> you *coul* upgrade to 10.04 LTS, see the wiki
[21:27:16] <mhaberler> not sure if that will work though
[21:27:22] <WesBaker> it says thank you for your interest in ubuntu 8.04 bla bla
[21:27:43] <JT-Shop> ok that looks good
[21:28:00] <archivist> unless was on 6
[21:28:37] <WesBaker> the version of firefox on this machine was old so I just did system/admin/update manager and let it do it's thing. That killed my emc.
[21:30:42] <JT-Shop> WesBaker: does the latency test work Applications/CNC/Latency Test
[21:32:23] <WesBaker> Print file information:
[21:32:23] <WesBaker> RUN_IN_PLACE=no
[21:32:23] <WesBaker> EMC2_DIR=
[21:32:24] <WesBaker> EMC2_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin
[21:32:24] <WesBaker> EMC2_TCL_DIR=/usr/share/emc/tcl
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[21:33:14] <WesBaker> am I back in?
[21:33:23] <WesBaker> OK, it let me in.
[21:33:45] <WesBaker> To answer the question, No. When I do the latency test, nothing at all happens.
[21:34:06] <JT-Shop> WesBaker: you must not have the real time kernal loaded
[21:34:18] <WesBaker> how do I load that?
[21:34:22] <mhaberler> type uname -a, what does it say?
[21:34:33] <mhaberler> did you reboot after upgrade?
[21:35:29] <WesBaker> when I type uname -a at a terminal prompt
[21:35:29] <JT-Shop> when you boot up and you see press Esc for menu do so
[21:35:29] <WesBaker> It says "linux pfrouter1 2.6.24 - 16 rtai #1 Tuesday .....
[21:35:54] <WesBaker> I did not reboot. (but I'm a windoze guy so I'm used to that.)
[21:35:57] <WesBaker> Should I reboot?
[21:36:19] <JT-Shop> that is the correct kernel
[21:36:19] <mhaberler> you'll have to eventually..
[21:36:42] <mhaberler> JT-Shop: yes, but for now..
[21:36:44] <mhaberler> reboot
[21:36:48] <WesBaker> I'm doing the IRC on the machine tool controller so if I reboot -- I will have to log back in.
[21:37:00] <WesBaker> OK, I'll reboot and report back in 5 minutes or less.
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[21:43:51] <WesBaker> OK, I'm back.
[21:44:00] <WesBaker> Reboot got my emc working again.
[21:44:28] <WesBaker> Just verified that the "rough" file was rough without the G64 P.010 and was smooth with it.
[21:45:03] <WesBaker> That scared me. I've got a job I have to run on this thing this week.
[21:45:20] <JT-Shop> did you read the link on user concepts?
[21:45:36] <WesBaker> Yes. And I understood it for the most part.
[21:46:54] <JT-Shop> ok, just wanted to make sure you didn't miss that link
[21:47:29] <WesBaker> One thing seems contradictory. I put in a G64 P.010 that (according to my understanding) allows it to vary from the programmed path as much as .010 to maintain machine velocity. That would make sense in my head if it was turning a 90 degree corner. But these lines are almost tangential so it really wouldn't have to miss the mark much to keep velocity. I'm going to experiment with settings as low as .001
[21:47:36] <WesBaker> I don't understand the Q parameter
[21:47:53] <WesBaker> And I don't understand how the documentation says the machine should be able to stop at the end of the next linear move.
[21:48:01] <WesBaker> No way could it do that on all these little moves.
[21:48:26] <JT-Shop> thats the reason for G64Pn
[21:49:06] <WesBaker> I know I sound like a kid asking a bunch of questions, but since you are here, can you tell me how to make EMC aware of a text editor so I can just fire it off from the emc menu rather than from the ubuntu menu and navigating to open/save each time?
[21:49:35] <JT-Shop> the Q word is for how far from the programmed path the naive cam detector can connect short arcs and lines together
[21:50:01] <JT-Shop> then then becomes the path that the trajectory planner uses and the P is the word for that
[21:50:03] <WesBaker> That sounds about the same as the P parameter.
[21:50:19] <WesBaker> OK, I see the difference
[21:50:22] <JT-Shop> same but different
[21:50:31] <WesBaker> I get it.
[21:50:46] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[DISPLAY]-section
[21:51:20] <JT-Shop> to do a file edit from EMC look down at the EDITOR ini item
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[21:54:11] <WesBaker> I got the EDITOR=gedit line added and restarted. Oh man is that going to be helpful!
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[21:55:19] <anonimasu> WesBaker: my big mill has the same option for moves with a certain deflection it tries to keep the speed as constant as it can
[21:55:29] <WesBaker> How about changing it to look for files of *.TAP extension by default.
[21:55:32] <JT-Shop> I know your like a kid in a candy store but you need to look at this now http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,40/id,8285/lang,english/
[21:56:10] <anonimasu> in the ini there's a setting for that on top
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[21:56:42] <atom1> what does that get you?
[21:56:55] <WesBaker> What does ngcgui do?
[21:57:01] <anonimasu> atom1: which thing?
[21:57:07] <atom1> the link
[21:57:28] <anonimasu> embedding ncgui in emc
[21:57:30] <JT-Shop> WesBaker: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[FILTER]-Section
[21:57:38] <WesBaker> anonimasu: what do you mean on "top".
[21:58:13] <JT-Shop> atom1: that makes programming so easy I hardly ever write by hand a program on my lathe
[21:58:48] <atom1> like mdi?
[21:58:54] <anonimasu> WesBaker: like in the first few lines of the file
[21:59:02] <anonimasu> just look for .ngc
[21:59:21] <JT-Shop> atom1: no, much more powerful than the mdi
[21:59:31] <atom1> for mill or lathe?
[21:59:37] <atom1> or anything in general..
[21:59:43] <JT-Shop> you can program it for anything you like
[22:00:03] <WesBaker> Oh well. Duty calls.
[22:00:05] <JT-Shop> I use it on my lathe and plasma and if/when my mill gets emc on there too
[22:00:18] <atom1> i might not need it if i get a template for smartcam
[22:00:20] <WesBaker> JT-Shop: Thank you so much for the help!!
[22:00:25] <JT-Shop> np
[22:00:52] <atom1> the sherline template i did works darn good on it
[22:01:17] <MOGLI> JT-Shop where can i get ngcgui?? or it is inbuilt..sorry i came late so asking..
[22:01:27] <JT-Shop> for example on my lathe I pick facing fill in a few blanks, pick turn OD fill in a few blanks, pick drill ... pick tap then part off then it adds them all together into one program
[22:01:46] <JT-Shop> MOGLI: the link is in the post
[22:02:10] <JT-Shop> then I just press go and I'm off
[22:02:12] <MOGLI> http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/ngcgui/ i got this..but it says
[22:02:27] <MOGLI> Its unavailable due to great popularity...
[22:02:40] <JT-Shop> you will have to try back later
[22:02:52] <atom1> awww
[22:03:05] <JT-Shop> I'll contact Dewey and see if he want's me to mirror it for him
[22:03:35] <atom1> ok i gotta re arrange stuff here so i can set emc up to play with it i guess.
[22:03:44] <JT-Shop> neat
[22:03:46] <MOGLI> ok JT-Shop.. thanks....
[22:12:56] <jthornton> Jymmm: how do I make a link for a file to download?
[22:14:20] <atom1> link it like any url
[22:15:00] <jthornton> ok
[22:16:04] <atom1> <a href="USBTinyMkII_User_manual.pdf">
[22:16:06] <atom1> for example
[22:16:37] <jthornton> I just read that most browsers will automagiclly download a zip file
[22:16:58] <atom1> hmm. i dunno about that
[22:17:18] <atom1> i have some listed on my site but i do it ^^ that way
[22:17:39] <atom1> i pm'd the line
[22:17:47] <atom1> for that pdf
[22:18:06] <jthornton> thanks
[22:29:45] <jthornton> MOGLI: http://gnipsel.com/shop/emc2/emc2.xhtml
[22:31:58] <atom1> is that what you were editing?
[22:32:58] <atom1> lotsa broken links there
[22:33:00] <jthornton> I was just trying to make some files automagilly download when you click on them and seems like only zip is universal
[22:33:12] <jthornton> in my web page?
[22:33:14] <atom1> the .tcl work
[22:33:20] <atom1> yes the one you just linked
[22:33:39] <jthornton> which one doesn't work?
[22:33:39] <atom1> the .tcl also automatically pop up a save as box
[22:33:49] <atom1> .py
[22:33:53] <atom1> the first one
[22:34:07] <jthornton> lol that's funny
[22:34:14] <jthornton> let me add some pre tags
[22:34:31] <atom1> and the lathe subroutines just display
[22:34:35] <atom1> no save as box
[22:34:56] <jthornton> yea, I know that for them
[22:34:58] <atom1> plasma gallery not found
[22:35:10] <atom1> some will do that anyway. my .hex files just display
[22:35:14] <jthornton> opps that is not supposed to be there
[22:35:22] <atom1> heh
[22:35:27] <atom1> product of cut n paste
[22:37:09] <jthornton> maybe just a zip and a tar would be better
[22:37:18] <atom1> probably
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[22:45:14] <SWPLinux> so maybe webchat does work
[22:45:23] <jthornton> dunno
[22:45:37] <SWPLinux> apparently it does
[22:45:39] <MOGLI> jthornton: thanks for the link
[22:45:53] <jthornton> heh I've about got it all there
[22:46:12] <MOGLI> hey i am reading installation guide it says wget www.panix.com/~dgarrett/ngcgui/ngcgui.tgz
[22:46:32] <MOGLI> its the same as your .zip file or different???
[22:46:40] <jthornton> get it from my page after a referesh
[22:46:50] <jthornton> the zip is lacking at the moment
[22:46:57] <MOGLI> ok... thanks
[22:48:35] <jthornton> refresh the guide now too
[22:49:31] <atom1> woops
[22:49:36] <atom1> last 2 404
[22:49:43] <jthornton> yea that sucks
[22:51:00] <atom1> you should 'save as' on the .tgz
[22:51:01] <jthornton> MOGLI: this works wget gnipsel.com/shop/emc2/ngcgui/ngcgui.tgz
[22:51:08] <atom1> it tries to open in the brouser
[22:51:41] <jthornton> which ones are 404?
[22:51:48] <atom1> plasma.xml
[22:51:51] <atom1> postgui.hal
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[22:52:17] <jthornton> oh crap the are not supposed to be on that page
[22:52:21] <atom1> heh
[22:53:06] <MOGLI> hey got the files thanks...
[22:53:09] <atom1> ngcgui: Sorry, this page is currently unavailable due to its great popularity.
[22:53:09] <atom1> Please try again in a few days.
[22:53:12] <atom1> wtf
[22:53:13] <atom1> :D
[22:53:21] <atom1> i ain't got days dude
[22:53:31] <jthornton> which link?
[22:53:41] <atom1> 3rd
[22:53:45] <atom1> ngcgui
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[22:54:12] <jthornton> yea that is Deweys and it is down due to popularity
[22:54:20] <atom1> mirror it
[22:54:35] <atom1> i try to keep as many links local as i possibly can
[22:54:35] <jthornton> that's what I'm working on
[22:58:27] <jthornton> what a pia a linux machine will not download the zip file and you have to use wget to get the tarred and feathered file
[23:02:23] <SWPLinux> ?
[23:02:30] <SWPLinux> right click and "save link as"
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[23:12:29] <JT-Shop> I did that and nothing happened
[23:14:45] <atom1> use rar
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[23:18:20] <SWPLinux> I don't see any way for the file type to prevent downloading on some OSes
[23:18:50] <SWPLinux> the server could be configured to disallow clients that advertise they're on Linux from downloading certain things, but that would be a strange thing to set up
[23:20:40] <Jymmm> You mean compared to viewing the file?
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[23:22:52] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: LAX?
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[23:26:59] <jthornton> SWPLinux: I don't know why and I use firefox on both windblows and linux but clicking on the .zip file in windblows gets a save as link
[23:27:34] <Connor> What's the link?
[23:27:59] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/shop/emc2/emc2.xhtml
[23:28:24] <jthornton> there is a zip and a tarred and feathered version of ngcgui
[23:28:42] <Connor> He doesn't have his mime types set correctly in his webserver.
[23:28:50] <atom1> you should put the ver beside it
[23:28:57] <atom1> if it has one
[23:28:58] <jthornton> Connor: he is me
[23:29:03] <Valen> their server has mime times misconfigured
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[23:29:20] <Connor> jthornton: Your mime types isn't set correctly. :)
[23:29:27] <Jymmm> Just shift+click to download it
[23:29:34] <Valen> or right click
[23:29:35] <jthornton> ok, looking now for mime
[23:29:41] <Connor> this apache ?
[23:29:42] <Valen> or wget like the text suggests
[23:30:00] <jthornton> I'm logging in now
[23:30:26] <Jymmm> right click, save as...
[23:30:44] <jthornton> that doesn't work on linux with firefox for me
[23:31:17] <jthornton> Connor: where would I look for mime types
[23:31:19] <SWPLinux> jthornton: do you get the menu of options, is "save link as" grayed out, or does it just not work when you click it?
[23:31:29] <Connor> in your httpd.conf file..
[23:31:36] <Connor> should be something like..
[23:31:37] <Connor> AddType application/x-compress .Z
[23:31:37] <Connor> AddType application/x-gzip .gz .tgz
[23:32:23] <jthornton> server side includes and CGI?
[23:32:34] <Jymmm> no
[23:32:34] <Connor> Um No.
[23:32:42] <Jymmm> search for 'AddType'
[23:33:29] <Connor> you should also have a /etc/mime.types file too..
[23:33:48] <Connor> stock apache already has this turned on.. so, not sure why yours isn't.
[23:34:52] <Connor> you'll need to restart apache after adding those in.
[23:35:31] <jdhNC> can't just HUP?
[23:35:33] <jthornton> it's on webhost4life
[23:35:39] <jthornton> what is HUP?
[23:35:53] <Connor> That works too..
[23:35:58] <jdhNC> SIGHUP
[23:35:59] <Jymmm> Content-Type: text/html
[23:36:27] <jthornton> I found MIME TYPES
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[23:40:50] <jthornton> what the heck is MIME?
[23:41:06] <Connor> It tells the system what kind of file it is.
[23:41:12] <Valen> magic internet mojo eh?
[23:41:13] <Connor> and what header to send before sending the file.
[23:41:31] <Jymmm> Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions
[23:41:36] <jthornton> it wants to know what type of MIME\
[23:41:39] <Jymmm> Is what it stands for
[23:41:43] <Valen> mine sounds more realistic
[23:42:03] <Jymmm> jthornton: .tgz, application/x-compressed
[23:43:03] <jthornton> well hell it liked that
[23:43:09] <jthornton> what about zip?
[23:43:17] <Connor> zip looked like it was working.
[23:43:17] <Valen> zip seems to be working
[23:43:21] <Jymmm> .zip, application/x-zip-compressed
[23:43:22] <Valen> i wouldnt mess with it
[23:43:29] <jthornton> ok
[23:43:46] <atom1> naw, break it so you have something to fix
[23:44:01] <Valen> atom1: your a bad man
[23:44:04] <Jymmm> jthornton: start with atom1's neck
[23:44:05] <jthornton> yea go for the gusto
[23:44:24] <jthornton> well it liked that too
[23:44:34] <jthornton> anyone want to test it?
[23:44:40] <Jymmm> no
[23:44:46] <Connor> You restart it or HUP it ?
[23:44:57] <jthornton> no
[23:45:03] <Valen> need to do that first
[23:45:23] <Connor> apachectl -k restart
[23:45:25] <jthornton> I'm in some kind of dashboard thingy
[23:45:44] <Connor> oh. no clue.. you'll have to look around.
[23:46:32] <Valen> reload is also an option
[23:49:29] <jthornton> may take a while to trickle down
[23:50:44] <Jymmm> clear your browsers cache too
[23:51:28] <jthornton> I'll take all of it's cash
[23:52:31] <jthornton> what do you think of this for looking at cutting tools http://store.amscope.com/sw-2t13x.html
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[23:53:50] <Jymmm> VIRUS DETECTED IN: ngcgui_tst
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[23:55:46] <SWPLinux> Jymmm: I may be at SFO at 7:something. I'll find out soon whether I get on that plane or not (my original flight was canceled)
[23:56:08] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Oh joy
[23:56:34] <SWPLinux> yeah
[23:56:51] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: So what does that mean? They can just sell flights to ppl and cancel them?
[23:57:10] <SWPLinux> well, I'd rather have them cancel than fly a broken plane
[23:57:14] <SWPLinux> it's a service issue
[23:57:35] <SWPLinux> it's flight 798 to SFO, arrives at 7:11
[23:57:49] <SWPLinux> I have to go to the gate now to see if I get a seat. I'll call or IRC depending
[23:57:53] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: So do they shuttle you to SJC or what?
[23:58:00] <SWPLinux> otherwise, it's late night at SFO, and I'll get a shuttle
[23:58:18] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: Oh, ok
[23:58:22] <SWPLinux> no, they're close enough that they're considered the same destination. I'd get a SuperShuttle for $20 or whatever it is
[23:58:41] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: That's not right at all.
[23:58:55] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: If it's the "same place" the fee would be the same
[23:59:22] <SWPLinux> well, they offered to send me to SJC tomorrow morning, but I asked about other options for today. They're actually accomodating my request
[23:59:40] <Jymmm> what, red eye?