#emc | Logs for 2011-04-17

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[00:00:30] <SWPadnos> you should make sure that you don't have some other problem also
[00:00:32] <andypugh> If you have $300 to waste, just give it to me.
[00:00:38] <marcin_ose> Yes, but that hasn't been changed since the time that we got the machine to work properly over a year ago.
[00:00:38] <Jymmm> marcin_ose: Yeah, if you just want to save headaches diagnosing the xylotex
[00:00:49] <SWPadnos> but the G540 only needs a real parallel cable to work, nothing else
[00:01:05] <Jymmm> and has mid band compensation
[00:01:10] <SWPadnos> what has changed since the thing worked a year ago?
[00:01:22] <andypugh> You will look foolish if you spend the money and find that the Gecko doesn't work either, because the problem is that the laptop parallel port is not at 0x378
[00:01:37] <SWPadnos> laptop. eek
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[00:02:14] <andypugh> Aparently the latency is checked and OK.
[00:02:42] <marcin_ose> How do I check the parallel port location on the Ubuntu 8.04?
[00:03:11] <andypugh> lspci -(some switch I can't recall)
[00:03:17] <SWPadnos> -v
[00:03:35] <andypugh> lspci -v
[00:03:38] <andypugh> (Then)
[00:03:39] <SWPadnos> or -vv (up to 3 or 4 "v"s I think)
[00:03:57] <andypugh> V for Verbose verbiage?
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[00:04:28] <andypugh> Where can I buy just the garter spring from an oil seal?
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[00:05:51] <mozmck> SWPadnos: have you tried Gnome3 yet?
[00:05:59] <SWPadnos> nope
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[00:06:20] <mozmck> I'm not liking what I read about it yet.
[00:06:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:06:47] <SWPadnos> it's different, so you should expect to hear a lot of complaints, regardless of how good or bad it is
[00:07:01] <mozmck> tried to boot it on virtualbox and it says the graphics card isn't good enough to run the full experience.
[00:07:09] <SWPadnos> bummer
[00:07:22] <SWPadnos> set it to 128M
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[00:07:44] <mozmck> I did, and gave it 3d access.
[00:08:12] <mozmck> What about Unity that Ubuntu is going to?
[00:09:38] <SWPadnos> no idea. maybe I should download Natty beta 2 and play with it this week
[00:09:43] <mozmck> As of 11.04 Ubuntu will use Unity instead of Gnome.
[00:09:47] <SWPadnos> though I won't have any tools with me on my trip :)
[00:09:59] <SWPadnos> by default
[00:10:02] <mozmck> tools?
[00:10:08] <SWPadnos> you can always use kubuntu instead :)
[00:10:13] <mozmck> yeah.
[00:10:19] <SWPadnos> yeah, screwdrivers so I can swap hard drives in my laptop
[00:10:40] <cradek> http://www.tux-planet.fr/public/images/screenshots/gnome-mockup/gnome-mockup-13.jpg
[00:10:42] <mozmck> I just looked at kde again, and I think I could get used to it now.
[00:11:01] <cradek> first screenshot I found has a floating michael jackson head and ridiculous transparent stuff everywhere
[00:11:06] <mozmck> I also installed debian 6.0.1 with LXDE, and that looks promising.
[00:11:11] <cradek> also, it's not in english, which is a real usability problem
[00:11:23] <mozmck> heh
[00:12:26] <mozmck> debian has a pretty good graphical installer now ( probably has for a while, but I've only done incremental upgrades for years now - no new installs)
[00:12:30] <marcin_ose> on LSPCI, am I looking for PCI bridge? There's 2 listed.
[00:13:00] <andypugh> Transparent. Good in windows in the side of your house. Pointless in windows on your computer.
[00:13:16] <andypugh> You should see the parallel port listed.
[00:13:35] <andypugh> Just bung put the whole output onto pastebin.com
[00:15:11] <marcin_ose> I see PCI bridge, USB Controller, ISA bridge, IDE interface, SMBus, Multimedia audio, Modem, VGA controller, CardBus, Network Controller, FireWire, Ethernet.
[00:15:24] <marcin_ose> Did my parallel card go out?
[00:16:02] <andypugh> I don't know what Stepconf does if the parport isn't there.
[00:17:23] <marcin_ose> http://pastebin.com/Eb2EM3j2
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[00:21:39] <SWPadnos> it looks like some stuff is missing from the top
[00:22:01] <SWPadnos> is the parport built in or cardbus?
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[00:23:08] <SWPadnos> mozmck, actually, we (my wife and I) will be in Dallas Monday and Tuesday
[00:23:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm sorry
[00:23:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: (about ebing in TX that is)
[00:23:39] <SWPadnos> well, part of Monday, all day Tuesday, and "until we feel like leaving" on Wednesday
[00:23:42] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah
[00:23:45] <atom1> u got a problem with tx?
[00:24:00] <SWPadnos> but after the wind and the snow/hail squalls we had here today, I think it might be OK
[00:24:16] <atom1> where is here?
[00:24:53] <SWPadnos> Vermont
[00:25:14] <mozmck> SWPadnos: Give me a holler if you need something, or we could meet up anyhow.
[00:25:24] <mozmck> Been pretty nice here.
[00:25:27] <SWPadnos> will do, if we have the time
[00:25:37] <SWPadnos> I think we'll be at the Arboretum most of the day Tuesday
[00:25:57] <SWPadnos> dunno about the other days (though my wife hasn't ever seen the camera rig, so we'll stop in to the studio for a bit)
[00:26:30] <andypugh> I don't recall JR ever going to an arboretum.
[00:26:55] <mozmck> I'm supposed to be programming Monday, but it's flexible. Never been to the Arboretum. The Dallas Aquarium is pretty neat though.
[00:26:56] <SWPadnos> clearly, he was uncivilized
[00:27:05] <SWPadnos> that seems strange
[00:27:18] <SWPadnos> (that an aquarium would be any good there :) )
[00:27:57] <mozmck> :) Actually, it's the South American part I like. More like a zoo, with a river in the middle and critters everywhere.
[00:28:15] <mozmck> they wouldn't let me shoot any though :(
[00:28:20] <SWPadnos> it's like ordering sushi in Dallas - it's about as far from any ocean as you can get in North America :)
[00:28:43] <marcin_ose> SWPadnos - it's the parport that came with the computer, on the back.
[00:28:53] <mozmck> ? Gulf of Mexico isn't too far south!
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[00:28:55] <SWPadnos> ok, built-in then
[00:29:03] <SWPadnos> that's true
[00:29:04] <andypugh> Can you try to get the while of lspci into the pastebin>
[00:29:15] <andypugh> (There is a way to increase the buffer length)
[00:29:25] <marcin_ose> while of lspci?
[00:29:26] <SWPadnos> I guess Dallas is the middle of Texas, not the middle of the continent :)
[00:29:38] <SWPadnos> lspci -vvv > somefile.txt
[00:29:42] <SWPadnos> whole
[00:29:48] <marcin_ose> Ok.
[00:29:50] <andypugh> Yes, that pastebin seemed to have stuff missing from the top
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[00:30:27] <marcin_ose> SWPadnos - how do I show you the text file?
[00:30:46] <SWPadnos> load it in an editor, then copy/paste all of it into pastebin
[00:30:58] <andypugh> You can paste the text file to pastebin, if you open it in an editor and copy from there.
[00:31:58] <andypugh> Cool, I have only been playing linux/emc2 for a couple of years, and already I sound just like SWP.
[00:32:23] <SWPadnos> you just need to work on the speed :)
[00:32:26] <atom1> so there might be hope for me?
[00:32:28] <SWPadnos> (but I understand it's late for you)
[00:32:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Speed Kills
[00:32:36] <SWPadnos> atom1, don't get uppity
[00:33:19] <atom1> how many of you were linux guru's already?
[00:34:10] <andypugh> I certainly wasn't. I had pretty much only ever used Macs.
[00:34:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: Zealot!
[00:34:27] <SWPadnos> I had been dabbling with Linux since about 1993/1994 at least, and had used other kinds of UNIX before that (Xenix, Irix, some Compaq thing, ...)
[00:34:34] <Jymmm> ;)
[00:34:41] <atom1> how do you get root access in ubuntu?
[00:34:49] <andypugh> What, no 42nix on the Whitechapel?
[00:34:51] <atom1> i'm more used to debian with no gui
[00:34:53] <Jymmm> atom1: You dont, you use sudo
[00:35:10] <atom1> surely there can be root access
[00:35:23] <Jymmm> atom1: Yes, but you'll fuck up ubuntu if you do
[00:35:33] <Jymmm> atom1: use sudo
[00:35:42] <atom1> hmm
[00:35:45] <andypugh> v
[00:35:47] <andypugh> http://xkcd.com/149/
[00:35:52] <Jymmm> atom1: theres no reason NOT so use sudo on ubnti
[00:35:58] <Jymmm> ubuntu
[00:36:21] <atom1> does it run apache2?
[00:36:32] <SWPadnos> by default, Ubuntu has no password set for the root account, and has root login disabled
[00:36:33] <andypugh> (sorry about the "v" there, the Mac is booted into Windows at the moment while I do some Autodesk Inventing. Ctrl and Command have swapped places.
[00:36:35] <Jymmm> atom1: What?
[00:36:39] <SWPadnos> you can do "sudo bash" though
[00:36:44] <atom1> for web stuff
[00:36:50] <Jymmm> atom1: You NEVER EVER run httpd as root - EVER
[00:36:54] <SWPadnos> and you can also set a root password and turn on root logins
[00:37:52] <atom1> probably not recomended
[00:37:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sure, but it'll fuck up updats and crap
[00:38:13] <marcin_ose> SWPadnos - http://pastebin.com/BptSeGEU
[00:38:23] <Jymmm> If you want root, dont use ubuntu
[00:38:30] <atom1> so when you update what's the procedure? sudo apt-get?
[00:38:37] <SWPadnos> well, the question was whether it was possible. it's your own damned fault if you screw things up ;)
[00:38:38] <Jymmm> atom1: correct
[00:39:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: But, nobody ever tells yu it'll fuck things up, just how to fuck up your system
[00:39:20] <Jymmm> Here's the knife, now go kill yourself
[00:40:19] <atom1> linux is good about that
[00:40:34] <SWPadnos> marcin_ose, well, I don't see the parallel port at all
[00:42:09] <SWPadnos> dunno how to fix that, except maybe by looking at BIOS settings
[00:44:38] <andypugh> I wonder if it is worth trying "0" as the base address and seeing if Stepconf can find the port?
[00:44:57] <SWPadnos> I don't remember if that worked in 2.3.0
[00:45:15] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I forgot that part.
[00:45:38] <andypugh> In fact, I keep forgetting that most folk are not even on 2.5 yet.
[00:45:42] <pcw_home> If the port is a local LPC port it wont show up, maybe the output of dmesg would help
[00:46:24] <SWPadnos> yeah, maybe /proc/ioports or /proc/interrupts might have some useful information (unless the parport driver is disabled)
[00:46:33] <SWPadnos> or is it /proc/ports?
[00:51:17] <pcw_home> Is this a plug in parallel port card?
[00:51:25] <mozmck> laptop
[00:51:34] <mozmck> builtin
[00:51:38] <andypugh> but built-in at least
[00:52:30] <andypugh> is the command cat /proc/ports? (In Windows here, so can't try it)
[00:53:06] <pcw_home> OK so the BIOS setting should be checked if it doesn't show up in dmesg
[00:53:50] <andypugh> boot-time dmesg, or would there be a clue from running stepconf?
[00:55:00] <SWPadnos> it seems to be /proc/ioports
[01:04:52] <andypugh> I am not sure he is still there...
[01:05:35] <SWPadnos> still attached
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[01:14:42] <andypugh> Anyone have any feel for typical cutting forces on a Bridgeport sized mill?
[01:16:06] <andypugh> My Y ballnut mount looks a but delicate, and with the full rated load of the ballscrew the FEA says 373MPa stress. However, that is 9kN (call it a ton of force), which seems high.
[01:16:58] <SWPadnos> the stock Y ballnut holder is a bit weak. there's an aftermarket of stiffer ones available
[01:17:31] <andypugh> This is actually my Harrison, I am trying to replace a bronze acme nut.
[01:18:05] <SWPadnos> the motors I got, which are from an Anilam conversion kit, are 27 in-lb continuous, they normally go to a 2:1 reduction, and then a 5TPI ballnut. you can figure the force from there
[01:18:16] <SWPadnos> peak torque is 4x continuous
[01:18:46] <andypugh> Of course, I can calculate the force from motor torque! Doh!
[01:18:50] <pcw_home> you probably dont want your servos peak torque to be able to bust your ball-screws
[01:18:58] <SWPadnos> or the mounts
[01:19:15] <pcw_home> tooling yes
[01:23:57] <pcw_home> man these deer are brazen, they used to run when we let our dog out now they dont even bother getting up
[01:29:36] <Paragon39> Just caught up with chat...
[01:30:38] <Paragon39> atom1: you can use sudo -s to get a root access rather than typing sudo <command>
[01:30:58] <andypugh> Looks like no more than 5kN force on the screws
[01:31:43] <pcw_home> sounds fairly safe
[01:34:28] <andypugh> But i need to go to a smaller ballscrew.
[01:34:46] <andypugh> The OE acme is 15mm (or imperial close to that)
[01:35:01] <andypugh> There isn't quite room for a 16mm ball nut.
[01:35:10] <SWPadnos> that's half the diameter of a BP screw
[01:35:15] <SWPadnos> I hope the machine is tiny
[01:35:28] <andypugh> It's not huge.
[01:35:30] <SWPadnos> (less than half, they're 1.25
[01:35:32] <SWPadnos> "
[01:35:34] <SWPadnos> )
[01:35:58] <Jymmm> ( . ) ( . )
[01:36:13] <Jymmm> (.) (.)
[01:36:34] <andypugh> 1.25 is the knee screw. X is about .75", Y a little smaller still.
[01:37:08] <andypugh> But then, do the BP ones need to be 1.25"?
[01:38:03] <andypugh> a 12mm ball nut is rated 6kN dynamic and 10kN static (for 10E6 revs)
[01:38:27] <andypugh> I would like to find a 14mm one though.
[01:41:50] <andypugh> The 8mm balscrew in my lathe saddle is holding up OK (and was, scarily, bigger than the OE leadscrew). It looked like a toy, but nothing else would fit.
[01:43:30] <marcin_ose> SWPadnos and team - what do you recommend on the parallel port?
[01:44:24] <andypugh> cat /proc/ioports was the last suggestion.
[01:44:30] <marcin_ose> SWPadnos - i have a newer laptop with Ubuntu 10.04. It doesn't have a parallel port. Can I use that laptop with a USB-Paralled converter cable?
[01:44:43] <andypugh> No, nay, and never.
[01:45:10] <andypugh> They just don't work. And USB messes up all the timings
[01:45:17] <marcin_ose> Hmm...
[01:45:39] <andypugh> Have you cecked that the P-Port is enabled in the BIOS?
[01:46:53] <Paragon39> A few pics of my Denford Starmill Conversion...
[01:47:03] <Paragon39> From This ... https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B53oJoJXbpkCY2U5NzZjNTYtNTUwZS00ZTkxLTk0MmUtMDNiMjUwNGYwMWY5&sort=name&layout=list&num=50
[01:47:45] <Paragon39> to this temporarily this... https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B53oJoJXbpkCMjI0ZWI0N2MtYmQzZC00YWQxLThiMDItOWY1YzkyNWY2ZmYz&sort=name&layout=list&num=50
[01:48:09] <Paragon39> and now to this https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B53oJoJXbpkCYWI2MDE1OTgtNzgzOS00YTI2LWFiYzItMzVlNmJkOTdkYzc0&sort=name&layout=list&num=50
[01:48:41] <andypugh> Not getting anything at those links
[01:49:10] <Paragon39> Still need to add Spindle control and opto isolators for the the limit switch / home switches... Will cut the pcb's on the machine...
[01:49:18] <Paragon39> andypugh: Nothing?
[01:49:46] <andypugh> "Sorry, the page (or document) you have requested is not available.
[01:50:29] <Paragon39> Oh, OK... Probably permissions. Im new to google docs.
[01:51:18] <Paragon39> Mmmm it says anyone who has the link can view! Scratching head!
[01:52:21] <Paragon39> andypugh: still nothing?
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[01:55:05] <andypugh> Are you copying the link from the address bar, or from a "link to this doc" link?
[01:55:49] <Paragon39> Link to this page (paste in email or im) link on the right had side.
[01:56:18] <andypugh> OK, it works now. Bizarre.
[01:56:47] <Paragon39> I have just opened the first two links to public.
[01:57:57] <Paragon39> Sorry the first link is public the others are still with link. Can you see them all?
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[02:01:19] <andypugh> I can see 1 and 2 but not 3
[02:02:05] <andypugh> marcin_ose Have you tried the dmesg and /proc/ioports ideas yet?
[02:04:02] <Paragon39> how strange the link shows as shared in one window but private in the other...
[02:05:12] <Paragon39> Try the last link now andypugh.
[02:06:13] <marcin_ose> Andypugh - on the ioports - http://pastebin.com/STmv1ZrW
[02:07:05] <andypugh> I think your parport must be off in the BIOS.
[02:07:35] <andypugh> I can't see mine in lspci, but it is clearly there in cat /proc/ioports
[02:08:11] <Paragon39> would the port show if it was blown?
[02:08:28] <Paragon39> dmesg for any errors ..
[02:08:29] <andypugh> Paragon39 No, working now. Pretty purple braiding.
[02:08:59] <Paragon39> Yeah I thought I'd bring a bit og bling to the party :-)
[02:09:11] <andypugh> I am not sure that the system would know that the parport was broken, it would probably tru to use it anyway.
[02:09:53] <andypugh> marcin_ose Have you checked the BIOS setup?
[02:11:02] <andypugh> In any case, it's 3am. I need to log off. Check your bios, then use the proc/ioports and you ought to get the Parport base address, then use that in stepconf.
[02:11:12] <andypugh> Night all.
[02:11:14] <marcin_ose> Andypugh - how do i check the bios setup?
[02:11:25] <andypugh> I don't know, it's your computer...
[02:11:34] <marcin_ose> What am I looking for?
[02:11:38] <andypugh> Maybe F2 during boot?
[02:11:58] <marcin_ose> Yes, but what am I looking for? Installed ports?
[02:12:01] <andypugh> Google for (Model of laptop) and BIOS setup...
[02:12:23] <andypugh> No idea, I am a Mac man, we don't have BIOS. :-)
[02:12:26] <Paragon39> andypugh: Here is a picture of the stepper motor upgrade from single stack to double. Used some box section to mount it. https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B53oJoJXbpkCZTA1YTBhNjYtZDNiNy00MzJhLWFlZTgtNWViZDNjZDAxNWRi&hl=en
[02:13:06] <andypugh> But yes, probably something like "legacy IO ports"
[02:13:17] <Paragon39> marcin_ose: Thinkpad right? Bios = http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/YAST-3JWKJX.html
[02:14:24] <Paragon39> marcin_ose: What model is it?
[02:15:13] <Paragon39> andypugh: Macbook?
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[02:17:29] <Paragon39> Right off to bed ... it's 3:17 am here! night all
[02:18:56] <Jymmm> Paragon39 wuss
[02:19:07] <Paragon39> :-)
[02:19:53] <Paragon39> Jymmm: Need the beauty sleep!
[02:21:33] <Jymmm> Paragon39: Oh, in that case.... Take some prozac and sleep for 3-4 weeks!
[02:25:15] <marcin_ose> Paragon39 - IBM Thinkpad T40 series
[02:26:35] <marcin_ose> Backing up - what am I checking for in the BIOS? Whether the parallel port is visible?
[02:27:18] <marcin_ose> We're just trying to find the parallel port address, right?
[02:27:23] <pcw_home> If its enabled and what its address is
[02:27:35] <Jymmm> Base address of thinkpad is 037F
[02:27:41] <Jymmm> typically
[02:33:32] <Gensor> is latency a function of the printer port, or the whole motherboard? Will Mesa card pci card turn a slow latency setup into a good one?
[02:34:44] <pcw_home> No, latency is mainly a Motherboard/BIOS issue
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[02:35:27] <Gensor> does anyone have a good link for a diy robot arm?
[02:41:24] <marcin_ose> Glory!!!!! Base port was not the 378 default as in Stepconfig Wizard - but 3BC, as I found by looking into BIOS settings for the Thinkpad . Thanks, all. Now I'll see if I could slice me some metal with the torch table. BTW, check out my TED Talk, it's related to this: http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html
[02:45:12] <mozmck> hey marcin, that's pretty neat! I would be a farmer myself if I could.
[02:45:57] <mozmck> I've raised gardens and lived in the country all my life.
[02:46:14] <atom1> Paragon39, what drivers are those?
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[02:48:43] <atom1> they look like the 2nd one on this page http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html
[02:49:10] <atom1> or one of them anyway
[02:52:19] <atom1> aww crap, that darn sleep thing again
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[05:40:41] <smellsofbikes> I've never used IRC before tonight, somehow.
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[05:41:28] <smellsofbikes> But anyway: I'm here because I'm having weirdness trying to set up an Atom D525 as an EMC controller and it's acting very oddly. Anyone else ever worked with this hardware?
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[09:22:04] <archivist> time lapse of a gantry mill build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geMHGydIvqI
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[10:52:33] <jthornton> pretty cool gantry build
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[10:56:49] <andypugh> logger[psha]
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[11:58:20] <Paragon39> Catching up on the post I missed last night it apears like marcin_ose sorted his issue with his drivers (Wrong base io port), at least it wasn't the driver cards! So thats good news.
[12:02:06] <Paragon39> atom1: To your question I missed due to my beauty sleep the drivers are MSD542 http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com/drives/msd542-microstepping-drive.php?cat=2 they do look similar to the ones you mentioned at http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html (which are cheaperthen the UK ones)...
[12:03:22] <archivist> badged chinese drives, similar to the arc euro trade I think
[12:04:51] <Paragon39> On further inspection they apear to be the same as KL5042
[12:05:15] <Paragon39> archivist: They must be badged by the look of things.
[12:05:34] <archivist> I did find the source one day a while ago, cant remember the name though
[12:06:12] <jthornton> maybe I can get some with my name on them :)
[12:06:59] <Paragon39> They appear to be good drives though. Had them for about three years now and no problems... Dam have I just put the mockers on them ;-) I have a 4th drive laying around for the 4th axis when I around to it.
[12:07:09] <archivist> capital to start up and buy enough to create a business stops me
[12:07:23] <Paragon39> archivist: If you find the source would you let me know please?
[12:08:06] <Paragon39> How many would one need to purchase do you think?
[12:08:20] <archivist> dunno
[12:08:43] <Paragon39> How longs a piece of string I guess!
[12:08:45] <archivist> there are many models, arc euro just has two models iirc
[12:10:35] <Paragon39> archivist: http://kinco-electric.en.made-in-china.com/product/XbeJxdSPEiVh/China-Stepper-Motor-Drive-Driver-2M880N-.html
[12:11:41] <archivist> looks similar dont remember the kinko name though
[12:12:06] <archivist> its possible they copy each other though
[12:12:16] <Paragon39> true
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[12:36:48] <JT-Shop> anyone have any milling subroutines laying about like facing, pocket etc...
[12:44:16] <JT-Shop> I found one place that has a few but he put his copyright on it yuck! I can't understand why someone would want to do that then publish it on the web... it ain't like it's a novel or somethign
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[13:38:11] <Gensor> JT, do you have time to chat?
[13:39:56] <atom1> jt, i let my cad cam do the work or if it's a simple pocket just do a multi step wall offset and repeat it in z
[13:48:08] <JT-Shop> Gensor: I pass by here every little bit :)
[13:48:30] <atom1> http://cgi.ebay.com/Bridgeport-2hp-Variable-Speed-Mill-w-Kurt-vise-DRO-/280660190575?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4158a6a56f
[13:48:41] <JT-Shop> atom1: if you don't have cam software...
[13:49:06] <atom1> how complex are the pockets?
[13:49:22] <atom1> islands etc?
[13:49:23] <JT-Shop> simple pockets I assume
[13:49:54] <JT-Shop> fellow on the forum is looking for milling subroutines like the lathe ones I posted
[13:50:06] <atom1> oh
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[13:50:20] <JT-Shop> on my lathe I can do most ops without any programming very quickly
[13:50:28] <JT-Shop> using ngcgui
[13:50:33] <JT-Shop> and subroutines
[13:50:39] <atom1> yeah, lathes are alot easier
[13:50:46] <atom1> we did most of our jobs mdi
[13:51:34] <JT-Shop> I use canned cycles a lot on my DX32 control on my VMC
[13:52:09] <JT-Shop> most used is facing, then next maybe circular pocket for the things I make
[13:53:24] * JT-Shop puts his electrician hat back on
[13:54:13] <Gensor> jt, you said you are an engineer?
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[14:06:59] <JT-Shop> yea I play one for my day job
[14:07:18] <atom1> electrician by night?
[14:07:35] <Gensor> mechanical here
[14:08:32] <Gensor> When you guys need a rock solid servo encoder setup, where do you turn?
[14:08:40] <archivist> define engineer
[14:09:12] <Gensor> 5years of math, physics, and applications of it
[14:11:12] <JT-Shop> Panasonic
[14:11:40] <JT-Shop> atom1: nights/weekends or whenever I need to be one :)
[14:15:40] <Gensor> jt: do you use their drivers also, or go with a cheaper solution
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[14:16:29] <JT-Shop> they are matched so yes we get the pair
[14:16:37] <JT-Shop> for linear motion we use Tolomatic
[14:17:12] <JT-Shop> for pick and place operations they have one that the motor and drive is on the actuator and is very easy to program and use
[14:17:21] <JT-Shop> they=Tolomatic
[14:18:25] <Gensor> and you tie all this to emc?
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[14:19:14] <JT-Shop> no, the factories use AB plc's mostly Compact Logic
[14:20:16] <JT-Shop> Panasonic has servo drives that take step and direction inputs and we use them with Panasonic plc's
[14:21:18] <JT-Shop> what are you looking to do?
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[14:24:04] <Gensor> good question, i am pondering the logistics of an EMC solution vs a turnkey solution with plc programming. Where I live is considered a low labor cost state and am pondering the investment time/$ to automate some production
[14:26:46] <JT-Shop> for automation I would use a plc, they are designed to do power on self checks as well as a bunch of other stuff.
[14:27:17] <JT-Shop> depending on the I/O needed the smallest Panasonic plc is about $100
[14:27:29] <JT-Shop> what state are you in?
[14:27:35] <Gensor> sd
[14:28:20] <JT-Shop> what process are you thinking of automating?
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[14:29:32] <Gensor> plasma cutter to welding
[14:32:08] <Gensor> food for thought?
[14:34:43] <JT-Shop> a pick and place operation?
[14:35:07] <Gensor> yes
[14:37:59] <Gensor> jt: I must go, but am curious what your thoughts would be
[14:38:28] <JT-Shop> ok holler at me later
[15:04:27] <JT-Shop> crap, I'm going to run out of 12-3wg before I get all my home runs done :(
[15:06:06] <atom1> stretch it out
[15:07:29] <JT-Shop> that's what is normally done around here :)
[15:07:51] <JT-Shop> banjo string tight looking like spaghetti in the attic
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[16:00:57] <IchGuckLive> someone effected with this hoorble tornados ?
[16:01:06] <atom1> always
[16:01:13] <atom1> i live in tornado alley
[16:01:28] <IchGuckLive> keep your windows Shut O.o
[16:01:28] <atom1> it would be boring without them
[16:01:38] <atom1> no, open them all to save your house
[16:02:07] <IchGuckLive> Tornadocasers Spaecial today here in TV in Germany
[16:02:31] <atom1> google greensburg kansas
[16:02:39] <atom1> for a treat
[16:02:55] <atom1> 1.7 miles wide
[16:03:18] <atom1> oh and also the haysville / andover tornado
[16:03:25] <atom1> 45 min on the ground
[16:03:35] <atom1> 2 worst on record
[16:03:39] <IchGuckLive> the greenest city in the world -> 2020
[16:03:55] <atom1> it's still a ghost town though
[16:04:29] <IchGuckLive> what is EF-5
[16:04:33] <atom1> bad
[16:04:46] <IchGuckLive> standing for
[16:05:11] <atom1> http://www.spc.noaa.gov/efscale/
[16:05:55] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ultimatechase.com/chase_accounts/Images/051007_Greensburg_Tornado_Damage/051007_Greensburg_Kansas_Damage_150.jpg boh EJ
[16:05:59] <atom1> now you see it, now you don't scale
[16:08:17] <IchGuckLive> where our Baufort ends Fujita starts
[16:09:02] <IchGuckLive> with all the Forest arround me B9 is still a Beast
[16:09:49] <IchGuckLive> The Harvesters are Still Taking trees from 2001 B10 Storm
[16:11:48] <IchGuckLive> But Kansas is a realy nice place to live
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[16:43:27] <atom1> IchGuckLive, in Feb we had -14F to +70F temps
[16:45:32] <IchGuckLive> B)
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[16:48:51] <aggrav8d> hi! last week some of you were making recommendations for alternatives to cambam. Now I can't remember the names and I'm looking to do more research. Can you please remind me what they were called?
[16:49:10] <atom1> IchGuckLive, http://www.kansas.com/static/slides/050507tornadoaerials/
[16:49:50] <atom1> bob cam?
[16:50:03] <aggrav8d> vcarve! found it in my history files.
[16:50:04] <atom1> dan cam?
[16:50:51] <IchGuckLive> the Tornadochasers maybe not online with a cam cause of selling the pictures
[16:52:46] <atom1> the green structure in 25 was the water tower
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[17:01:34] <EDocToor> does anyone here know what a cnc is?
[17:02:03] <atom1> no, what is it?
[17:02:39] <EDocToor> sorry to bother you.. I am on the wrong channel
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[17:40:27] <IchGuckLive> Edoc seams to be wright but had a realy bad stART
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[17:53:57] <Shabbir> lp tried to release parport
[17:54:47] <Shabbir> hello
[17:55:13] <JT-Shop> YIPPIE! the last circuit in the shop has been wired :)
[17:56:09] <kb8wmc> good going JT-Shop ,
[17:56:46] <JT-Shop> thanks... I'll never be more than 2' away from a outlet :)
[17:57:11] <atom1> feeling wired?
[17:57:11] <kb8wmc> sounds like you will have great electrical coverage
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[17:58:02] <JT-Shop> yea, 20 120v circuits and each quad outlet is 2 circuits in each one and only 2 quads share the same circuit
[17:58:31] <atom1> no wonder you burned thru the wire
[17:58:44] * JT-Shop goes to count how many outlets are in the shop
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[17:59:56] <JT-Shop> 39 outlets counting the ones in the ceiling for the retractable cord and the garage opener
[18:00:40] <JT-Shop> atom1: I think I used about 500' of 12-3 w/g and 4' of 12-2 w/g
[18:01:24] <Shabbir> is there anyone
[18:01:28] <JT-Shop> from the attic to the boxes is thhn so if i need something different I can pull it out and pull something bigger in like for a 240v outlet
[18:01:53] <JT-Shop> Shabbir: just ask your question
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[18:59:07] <mrsunshine__> http://www.youtube.com/user/alpinekat#p/u/2/j50ZssEojtM best rap ever :P
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[19:16:43] <Gensor> how friendly is emc when used with robot arms
[19:20:07] <psha> friendly enought - robot arm will greet you when you are coming home and maybe prepare some food for you
[19:21:18] <MOGLI> if it is so. send me one robot too.. i will install emc myself... ha ha ha..
[19:22:01] <MOGLI> is there anyway to use Encoder with Pluto-P ??
[19:22:10] <MOGLI> if anybody knows please tell me...
[19:22:24] <Gensor> is there a friendly way to "teach" emc the motion created by a human
[19:23:27] <MOGLI> Gensor: i am not sure but i think you need something like POST Processor which can convert human motion in GCode
[19:24:10] <Gensor> can you suggest a web page so I can do some research
[19:25:44] <aggrav8d> sorry, no. i'd love to see one, though.
[19:25:51] <aggrav8d> do you have a 6 axis arm to play with?
[19:26:17] <MOGLI> http://www.motoman.com/products/software/program/G-CODE%20EG.php it converts GCOde to MOTOMAN you need MOTOMAN to gcode;)
[19:27:45] <MOGLI> can anyone guide me on Pluto-P?? i think jepler wrote the code for the same..
[19:29:04] <Gensor> sorry, im just trying to find out what my options are
[19:30:47] <Gensor> I would think one could throw on some encoders at each joint, remove the belts, and a trigger on and off would provide source data for gcode etc
[19:31:18] <MOGLI> can anyone guide me on Pluto-P??
[19:34:05] <JT-Shop> Gensor: you would have to write g code to control your robot just like anything else
[19:35:15] <Gensor> you are not aware of an off the self app that would record encoder information
[19:35:45] <JT-Shop> like during jogging?
[19:37:07] <Gensor> nope.... eg a limp robot arm with no belts, and moved by hand, with encoders at each joint
[19:39:20] <archivist> make it so, use a normal robot arm but put a sensor on the arm and make a comp to record the offsets to keep the sensor centred
[19:39:21] <JT-Shop> seems to me I recall a learn or teach function somewhere but you could just write the positions down
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[19:40:28] <Gensor> good point assuming the movements are not to dynamic
[19:40:29] <archivist> bit like your Z thing for the plasma but recording
[19:42:17] <MOGLI> archivist: can i use encoder for threading with Pluto-P??
[19:42:26] <MOGLI> stepper version...
[19:42:52] <archivist> MOGLI, I know nothing about pluto
[19:43:00] <MOGLI> :( ok..
[19:43:16] <atom1> one of the smaller planets
[19:43:16] <archivist> but probably yes
[19:43:30] <JT-Shop> or stick a probe in the end effector and find the stopping point
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[19:45:18] <Gensor> mogli: google "pluto-p forum
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[19:47:26] <MOGLI> thanks Gensor, but no luck
[19:48:43] <Gensor> you might try some other search engines with the same keywords... but you are researching something with little support
[19:50:13] <JT-Shop> Gensor: usually for robots I just jog into position and record the location then after a few test runs make adjustments as needed
[19:50:34] <archivist> MOGLI, is this on a lathe with emc, do you have spare port lines available
[19:51:08] <DaViruz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRox-7OLZbw
[19:51:13] <DaViruz> lots and lots of steel to remove :(
[19:53:58] <archivist> no coolant and climb milling :)
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[19:56:25] <DaViruz> sandvik strongly advises against coolant with those inserts
[19:56:47] <atom1> the ones we used were with no coolant
[19:56:52] <JT-Shop> air blast is good
[19:57:08] <DaViruz> and why wouldn't i climb mill?
[19:57:17] <atom1> i would
[19:57:43] <JT-Shop> I would too, better life on the inserts
[19:57:50] <DaViruz> yeah
[19:58:01] <atom1> i watched a mori flycutting a steel plate at ~1/4" depth shooting white hot chips off
[19:58:20] <atom1> like butter
[19:58:59] <archivist> DaViruz, climb is best I know, just dont do it with crappy machines :)
[19:59:09] <DaViruz> well i know that
[19:59:28] <DaViruz> and i hope you're not insinuating that i have a crappy machine ;)
[19:59:32] <archivist> and I know about insert cracking with coolant
[20:01:46] <DaViruz> we asked the gas cutter to leave 5mm margin for cutting (H8 tolerance specified)
[20:01:53] <DaViruz> he left 15-25mm..
[20:02:30] <archivist> bit more to chew :)
[20:03:48] <JT-Shop> ouch
[20:04:44] <JT-Shop> what is it?
[20:05:36] <atom1> hope it didn't flame harden the edge
[20:06:10] <DaViruz> JT-Shop: i'm not entirely sure
[20:07:30] <DaViruz> some sort of lift anchor point for a steel converter furnace i believe
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[20:17:15] <JT-Shop> that makes sense
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[20:58:36] <danimal_garage> afternoon
[21:00:35] <JT-Shop> hi Dan
[21:01:28] <danimal_garage> hi John
[21:01:32] <danimal_garage> how goes it
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[21:04:50] <JT-Shop> good, just got done making up the panel in the shop. all the wiring is done and we are ready for the sheetrock party to start
[21:05:02] <JT-Shop> well I have to clean up first and make room lol
[21:05:03] <danimal_garage> sweet!
[21:05:22] <JT-Shop> I went nuts with outlets :)
[21:05:27] <danimal_garage> i bet your excited
[21:05:32] <danimal_garage> haha nice
[21:05:55] <JT-Shop> yea, as soon as the ceiling is in and insulated then I can install the garage door and turn on the AC
[21:06:36] <danimal_garage> i just insulated and drywalled a wall in my shop too, plus put in a bunch of outlets on that side of the shop
[21:06:41] <JT-Shop> have I told you how much I hate walking on cords and air lines for the last few years :)
[21:06:51] <danimal_garage> haha join the club
[21:07:17] <JT-Shop> I even put a quad in the ceiling for a drop down cord
[21:07:28] <danimal_garage> cool
[21:07:41] <danimal_garage> those are nice
[21:07:49] <mikegg> the other day I put one of those big eye hooks for bicycles in the ceiling of the garage to get the cables off the ground. then wifey came home and opened the garage....
[21:07:56] <mikegg> heh
[21:08:03] <danimal_garage> haha
[21:08:15] <danimal_garage> i have one i need to look out for when i open the door
[21:08:23] <danimal_garage> but i barely ever open it
[21:08:37] <danimal_garage> i actually put some 1.5" foam insulation on it
[21:08:54] <danimal_garage> the sun beats on that door later in the day so it helps a lot
[21:09:50] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop, i finally put a spindle encoder on my lathe the other day
[21:10:02] <JT-Shop> cool how did that work out?
[21:10:38] <danimal_garage> great, the tools are lasting a lot longer with the ti and stainless
[21:10:50] <JT-Shop> Sweet!
[21:11:07] <danimal_garage> better looking chips
[21:11:53] <danimal_garage> 1000ppr, should be ok for threading i think
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[21:13:46] <JT-Shop> yea should be great
[21:14:05] <JT-Shop> you do much threading?
[21:14:45] <danimal_garage> never lol
[21:14:49] <danimal_garage> but i will soon
[21:15:48] <danimal_garage> i just tested the spindle, it seems to be counting fine, i revved it up over 3krpm and it seems to keep count, judging by a line i drew on the spindle
[21:16:12] <JT-Shop> cool
[21:16:39] <danimal_garage> ubuntu is acting up on my lathe though
[21:16:49] <JT-Shop> how is that?
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[21:17:16] <danimal_garage> everything on the toolbars is gone, so if i minimize something, i can never get it back
[21:19:11] <danimal_garage> the clock is gone, along with the power button
[21:19:30] <danimal_garage> i lost power one day and it happened
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[21:23:22] <andypugh> Has anyone see the interesting thing that Piasdom is talking about on the forum, that every time he homes his axes, the displayed position increases by 1600.
[21:23:36] <JT-Shop> yes, I saw it
[21:23:59] <danimal_garage> weird
[21:24:05] <JT-Shop> danimal_garage: do you think something got corrupted on your hard drive?
[21:24:19] <danimal_garage> JT-Shop, no clue
[21:24:24] * JT-Shop wonders how piasdom did it
[21:24:28] <danimal_garage> i thought about reinstalling it
[21:24:45] <micges> alt + f2 is working?
[21:25:09] * JT-Shop wonders if there is a utility to check the hard drive in Ubuntu?
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[21:25:58] <danimal_garage> alt+f2 seems to work
[21:26:06] <andypugh> I think it is probably that it is at 1600 G53 to G54 delta, and as it is a sim, with no switches or home movements, that he sees that behaviour.
[21:26:30] <andypugh> Or, he is adding 1600 to the axis position through some bizarre HAL mangling.
[21:26:35] <MOGLI> andypugh: its touch off problem i got the same problem. i cleared .var file i think so..
[21:27:37] <JT-Shop> I think you have it andypugh
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[21:31:18] <danimal_garage> thats why i look at hal examples lol
[21:31:45] <danimal_garage> otherwise neither machine would work
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[21:35:26] <MOGLI> anyone know abt Pluto-P encoders?? i want threading in Pluto-Step config
[21:35:56] <JT-Shop> MOGLI: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/drivers_pluto_p.html
[21:37:04] <andypugh> You have a Pluto-P that actually works? Remarkable!
[21:37:26] <MOGLI> thanks JT-Shop . but i dint find encoder in step config.. i was thinking if someone tweaked source code and got working..
[21:37:42] <MOGLI> andypugh: it really works nice since 5 months.....
[21:38:07] <MOGLI> and with EMC2.4.6 i dont need to restart whole pc...
[21:40:03] <MOGLI> pluto-p is very poor design. so i am thinking to implement this http://www.cnczone.com/forums/emc_linux_enhanced_machine_control/94563-pluto-p_schematic.html
[21:40:17] <MOGLI> can anyone guide me ?? will it work with EMC2 as it is???
[21:40:57] <andypugh> MOGLI: There are no encoders in the Pluto-step firmware. You might be able to use some of the digital input pins into a software encoder, but you will be limited to servo-thread (1 kHz)
[21:41:50] <andypugh> You know, a Mesa 7i43 is only $80 and does do step and encoder in the same firmware.
[21:42:31] <MOGLI> i know.. but want to learn FPGAs
[21:42:45] <MOGLI> and want to develop special purpose hardware
[21:44:50] <MOGLI> let me explain my thought.. ARM9(LPC3130) + pluto on the same board
[21:45:48] <MOGLI> i am not sure it will work or not.. but i think it should atleast theortically, xenomai supports ARM9
[21:45:50] <andypugh> Why not ARM + Mesa firmware on the same board?
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[21:48:04] <MOGLI> to be very frank i am much into software than electronics and i got schematics as well as pcb files for the both thats why...
[21:48:07] * JT-Shop has done enough work today and goes out to play
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[21:49:48] <MOGLI> for mesa i think i need to do something like this http://members.cox.net/ebrombaugh1/synth/mini_2440_fpga/index.html
[21:50:26] <MOGLI> m not sure but it seems much more complicated than pluto
[21:50:43] <MOGLI> electronics/pcb design point of view...
[21:52:28] <MOGLI> andypugh: are you electronics guy??
[21:52:52] <andypugh> Not really. I dabble.
[21:53:29] <MOGLI> ok.. anyone uses Xenomai with EMC2???
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[21:55:18] <andypugh> Making PCBs is easy nowadays, You can just send the artwork off, and PCBs come back. I had these made a few weeks ago: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ResolverToQuadratureConverter
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[21:56:08] <andypugh> Can you run Xenomai on a normal PC? It would be a good place to start.
[21:56:27] <MOGLI> andypugh: ExpressPCB????
[21:56:44] <andypugh> That was Seeedstudio.
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[22:53:12] <andypugh> Bah! Why is nobody on ebay UK selling 2.5" mild steel bar?
[23:03:41] <atom1> you make many boards?
[23:04:25] <andypugh> Who?
[23:04:29] <atom1> U
[23:04:37] <andypugh> What sort of boards?
[23:04:44] <atom1> pc boards
[23:05:52] <atom1> oh wait, i remember that board
[23:06:04] <andypugh> No. I have etched one myself (using a pen plotter) then had 1 made by Seeed.
[23:07:39] <atom1> how'd the pen plotter work out?
[23:08:45] <andypugh> Not bad. I just used normal OHP pens (Staedtler Lumograf). I read on the internet that the red ones worked best.
[23:09:09] <andypugh> But I just don't like messing with ferric chloride.
[23:09:23] <atom1> yeah it's kinda messy
[23:09:36] <atom1> i switched to sodium persulphate
[23:09:48] <atom1> it's cleaner but will still eat a hole thru your pants
[23:10:20] <andypugh> (but I did read that you can get a lot more control if you use a sponge and swap the PCB. No good for mass production, but for a one off it is good to concentrate the effect on the bits that need it)
[23:10:44] <atom1> sponge?
[23:11:12] <atom1> i'm gettin lazy too but i used to use toner transfer
[23:11:13] <andypugh> Yes. Wear gloves.
[23:11:19] <atom1> oh i see
[23:11:21] <atom1> for etching
[23:11:39] <andypugh> I tried toner transfer about 10 years ago. It was a partial success.
[23:11:42] <atom1> i use a bubble tank
[23:12:14] <andypugh> My sponge comment would have made more sense if I had typed "swab" in place of "swap"
[23:12:17] <atom1> but anymore i just let china make me
[23:12:19] <atom1> em*
[23:13:08] <andypugh> Aye, making a copper layer is one thing, double sided with plating, resist and silkscreen is something else.
[23:13:29] <andypugh> (I have no idea how to do plated-through holes at home)
[23:13:30] <atom1> i've done double sided ok but no silkscreen
[23:13:34] <atom1> wire
[23:13:55] <atom1> mostly you try to use stuff that would be thru hole anyway like a resistor wire etc
[23:14:04] <atom1> if possible
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