#emc | Logs for 2011-04-15

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[00:09:59] <West0n> So I assume a fair amount of you have made your own cnc's?
[00:10:24] <West0n> Anyone have advice on linear slides?
[00:10:26] <cradek> I've retrofitted machines that were originally nc/cnc
[00:11:01] <cradek> what kind of advice do you mean?
[00:11:23] <cradek> one of my machines uses rails
[00:11:23] <West0n> What type of slides to use for the table
[00:11:47] <cradek> oh, I have no clue - they came on it
[00:12:03] <West0n> I was thinking one of the shaft and linear bearing systens
[00:12:04] <cradek> surely the answer depends on what kind of machine you are building and what your requirements are
[00:12:24] <West0n> I am building a laser cutting cnc
[00:12:44] <West0n> Right now I am thinking of using a moving table
[00:12:54] <cradek> cool, laser means no cutting force.
[00:12:57] <cradek> why moving table?
[00:12:58] <West0n> To keep beam peramaters constant
[00:13:23] <West0n> Because with flying optics the beam radius changes
[00:13:46] <cradek> I see
[00:13:52] <West0n> Which leads to different cut quality as the cuting area is farther away
[00:13:54] <cradek> is the laser itself hard to move?
[00:14:06] <West0n> Co2 laser tubes are 1 meter for the small ones
[00:14:10] <West0n> And water cooled
[00:14:14] <cradek> I have no clue about lasers, but it seems like they would be lighter than a table and workpiece
[00:14:20] <West0n> And require 30kv
[00:14:28] <West0n> So I don't want to move it
[00:14:39] <West0n> Is moving table design that bad?
[00:14:52] <West0n> I know you get 1/4 of the area as usable
[00:15:05] <cradek> yeah it sure takes more space
[00:15:10] <cradek> how big a workpiece do you want to handle?
[00:15:28] <cradek> for 4x8' sheets, moving table is right out
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[00:15:50] <West0n> Yah
[00:15:58] <West0n> Its for cutting plexi
[00:16:04] <jdhNC> I used to have a 5kw laser at work, we used a big fiber optic cable from the laser
[00:16:10] <West0n> Small ish stuff like control panels
[00:16:20] <West0n> I assume it was a yag?
[00:16:26] <jdhNC> yep
[00:16:31] <West0n> No fiber aviable for co2 :(
[00:16:51] <jdhNC> made for a highly inefficient water heter
[00:16:55] <West0n> I think 11 by 8.5 inch cutting area would be adaquate?
[00:17:10] <West0n> You can make a lot of cool crap in that area
[00:17:21] <West0n> And the travel speed on a co2 isint fast
[00:17:37] <West0n> So I would want a more powerfull laser first anyways
[00:17:51] <cradek> for no cutting force and 11" of travel, I think I'd use whatever rails showed up cheap on ebay
[00:18:14] <West0n> I was thinking of using ground rods and busshings from mc master
[00:18:25] <cradek> or delrin on TGP
[00:18:26] <West0n> Its about $15 for each rod
[00:18:39] <West0n> And $5 each bearing
[00:18:50] <West0n> Or slide. They are actualy ptfe
[00:19:22] <West0n> Does ebay have good prices for slides?
[00:19:32] <West0n> I saw a few cart/rail systems
[00:19:57] <West0n> But not much in the way of plain round slides and busshings/bearings
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[00:21:38] <Connor> My CNC router is 12" x 18"
[00:21:44] <Connor> It's a nice size.
[00:22:11] <West0n> What type?
[00:22:13] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/2010-10-31_17-52-13_194.jpg
[00:22:45] <cradek> I made this device for help with some software development. the nut isn't shown there but it's just delrin that slides on the drill rod
[00:22:52] <cradek> it's surprisingly decent
[00:23:48] <Connor> West0n: Mine? DIY
[00:23:49] <Paragon39> Weston: Just caught this topic. I fabed a CO2 laser about eight years ago. Made the tube by hand and used inferior pub gas co2. It worked quite well. The power supply was an old neon sign 15Kv supply from memory.
[00:24:35] <jdhNC> pcb spark gap?
[00:26:08] <West0n> Just co2?
[00:26:18] <West0n> No nitrogen/helium?
[00:27:02] <Paragon39> Yep just co2... Most modern tubes are now self contained I think they have a mixture of co2 and argon?
[00:28:23] <Paragon39> No just CO2... It wasn't very efficient but worked as an experiment.
[00:29:23] <Paragon39> Used this book as a starting point http://www.amazon.co.uk/Build-Working-Infrared-Space-age-Projects/dp/0830627243/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302827332&sr=8-1
[00:29:58] <West0n> I am geting a sealed one :)
[00:30:11] <danimal_garage> my tools are lasting much longer with the spindle encoder hooked up on the lathe
[00:30:14] <West0n> $120 buks for 40 watts
[00:30:34] <West0n> What did you use for mirrors?
[00:30:35] <elmo40> danimal_garage: :) always a nice thing, eh?
[00:30:50] <Paragon39> Sealed = Defiantly the way to go. $120 chinese?
[00:30:55] <West0n> I saw a few designs using standard metal with a hole in one for the oc
[00:30:58] <West0n> Yah
[00:30:58] <danimal_garage> yea, i was going nuts this week, i kept stalling the spindle and burning up tools
[00:31:09] <West0n> $60 shipping :/
[00:31:16] <danimal_garage> the material was a bit harder than normal i think
[00:31:25] <Paragon39> and if faulty :-( :-(
[00:32:09] <Paragon39> West0n: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasercc2.htm
[00:32:30] <Valen> stall the spindle and you only burn a tool?
[00:32:46] <Valen> it'd snap em for us before it ferrord out probably lol
[00:32:53] <West0n> Yah. I've read most of that
[00:33:04] <West0n> What did you end up using as a oc?
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[00:34:37] <Paragon39> From memory znse.
[00:35:01] <Paragon39> HR was silicon.
[00:35:36] <West0n> Ah
[00:35:44] <West0n> Its a pain getting optics
[00:36:08] <West0n> I want a long focal length lense for large depth of cut
[00:36:33] <Paragon39> Yes I remember getting them from someone in israel!
[00:36:51] <West0n> But all the ebay sellers sell short focal length ones for engraving
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[00:37:09] <West0n> One guy on ebay has 3" focal length ones for $100
[00:37:43] <West0n> The chinese ones are $60 so I might contact a seller who has longer focal length lenses on his website
[00:38:41] <Paragon39> wonder if this is the same company I got them from back in the ... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-CO2-Laser-ZnSe-Focusing-Lens-Optics-CNC-cutting-/160363511722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255668ffaa
[00:40:42] <West0n> That one has a good price and focal length
[00:40:54] <West0n> Small diamater though :/
[00:41:04] <elmo40> how large is your beam?
[00:41:09] <Paragon39> BTW you may find it easier and cheaper to move the head rather than the table. The motors can drive the head by belt.
[00:41:30] <West0n> The head is 1m plus
[00:41:34] <West0n> For a small laser
[00:41:55] <West0n> If I upgrade to a 80 watt or something it will hit the celing almost
[00:42:00] <West0n> And it would require a lot of support
[00:42:05] <elmo40> laser should stay fixed. use mirrors on a moving column.
[00:42:13] <Valen> how hard is it to couple it into fiber?
[00:42:26] <Paragon39> Can't use fiber.
[00:42:42] <elmo40> you could... many machines use fibre
[00:43:35] <Paragon39> I was under the impression IR at this power would burn the fibre no?
[00:44:04] <West0n> You can't use fiber for co2 lasers
[00:44:08] <West0n> Its too deep ir
[00:44:18] <West0n> No fiber transmitts
[00:44:27] <Paragon39> Right.
[00:44:34] <West0n> And I was first considering using moving mirrors
[00:44:43] <Jymmm> galvo
[00:44:57] <West0n> But because of the divergence, the beam with expands with distance
[00:45:13] <West0n> And you gett worse cut quality at farther distance
[00:45:49] <Jymmm> it all depends on what your doing with it
[00:46:09] <Valen> divergance for a monochromatic source over the distances your talking about should be minimal
[00:46:33] <elmo40> depends on how good the co2 is.
[00:46:54] <Valen> and lenses
[00:46:59] <elmo40> besides, the beam should be minimally focused before it gets to the head
[00:47:11] <Jymmm> since when
[00:47:20] <Valen> http://www.jtingram.com/id10.html btw
[00:47:56] <Paragon39> elmo40: that correct for better quality the beam should widen then narrow.
[00:47:59] <West0n> Tem00 beam, which is what you idealy get with co2 would exmapnd the beam from 2mm to 10mm over 1 M
[00:48:09] <elmo40> on our 6x14' table the beam is about 3" leaving the chamber, going down the length of the bed. it hits the first mirror and then a lens to give slight focus. the rest is all done in the 'head'
[00:48:33] <West0n> For tighest spot you want wide beam
[00:48:40] <West0n> For cutting you want small beam
[00:48:48] <Jymmm> elmo40: what 1KW ?
[00:48:48] <West0n> So the feild of cut is greatest
[00:48:48] <Valen> yah you dont want to be sending a 2mm beam around the place
[00:48:59] <Valen> thats going to be hazadous
[00:49:00] <West0n> What's wrong with 2mm beam?
[00:49:10] <Valen> the smaller the beam the more it will diverge
[00:49:11] <West0n> Its covered :)
[00:49:32] <Valen> you generally ship the beam around as wide as you can tollerate
[00:49:40] <Valen> tradeoff is mass in the head
[00:50:14] <elmo40> Jymmm: not sure, exactly... but the entire chamber makes a lovely glow when you turn it up ;)
[00:50:34] <Jymmm> elmo40: you sure it's not a Yag laser?
[00:51:19] <West0n> the max mirror/lense combo I can get is 1" wide
[00:51:27] <West0n> So that kinda limits things
[00:51:39] <elmo40> co2 laser. plenty of heat coming from it. possibly 1.2kW
[00:52:56] <elmo40> mitsubishi controller
[00:53:35] <Valen> ionising the air itself ftw?
[00:54:05] <elmo40> it is all sealed.
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[00:54:19] <elmo40> has a vacuum pump going to make sure the chamber is only co2
[00:54:32] <elmo40> uses nitrogen for something, cooling the tip?
[00:55:11] <Paragon39> elmo40: 40W you mentioned. Is it for engraving?
[00:55:31] <elmo40> cuts 3/8 mild steel
[00:55:48] <Paragon39> sorry I meant to send it that last message to West0n ...
[00:55:49] <elmo40> nah, maybe only 1/4"
[00:56:40] <elmo40> I am working on a home built table. 6x10'
[00:56:49] <West0n> Its for 1/4 acrylic
[00:56:56] <West0n> Cutting and engraving
[00:57:25] <elmo40> one side will have a plasma torch, the other will have a low wattage laser for etching or plastics
[00:57:29] <elmo40> wood
[00:57:35] <elmo40> other stuff that plasma is no good for
[00:58:02] <elmo40> thin sheetmetal. how many watts do I need for that? 500W?
[00:58:02] <Paragon39> c02 lasers love acrylic
[00:59:08] <Paragon39> I think 100w would cut thin sheet metal...
[00:59:25] <Paragon39> but i am no authority...
[01:03:00] <West0n> Is air assist needed?
[01:04:07] <Paragon39> dam missed out on this... up the road from me to. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330548520998&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
[01:05:45] <Paragon39> West0n: not sure but a fume extractor would be I would think.
[01:08:35] <West0n> Fume extraction? Bleh
[01:09:30] <Paragon39> lol... Right, Im off to my bed! It's 2:00am here....
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[01:10:47] <West0n> Night
[01:10:53] <Paragon39> night
[01:10:57] <West0n> Is moving table design that bad?
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[01:17:43] <West0n> I see a lot of mills on instructibles using it
[01:18:02] <West0n> The bad side it that I can't directly cut full sheets of plexi then
[01:29:38] <jdhNC> 10v is marginally weird
[01:29:45] <jdhNC> <urk>
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[02:39:43] <Connor_CNC> How do you change the default units in emc ? It always comes up in mm, but I want it to be in inches.
[02:43:33] <cradek> it defaults to the units your machine is configured in (ini setting units)
[02:44:02] <Connor_CNC> yea.. I want to leave it native mm, but come up displaying in inch so I don't have to change the view everytime.
[02:44:20] <elmo40> crazy metric world
[02:44:39] <Connor_CNC> no, crazy imperial world..
[02:45:12] <Connor_CNC> metric much easier.. but, everything in the us is imperial.. and my poor brain can't think in mm very easily..
[02:45:31] <cradek> oh god not this discussion
[02:46:02] <Connor_CNC> nah.. Is their a way for it to come up with "view" defaulted to inch vs mm, but leave the config native mm ?
[02:46:35] <cradek> that's still not really what you want
[02:46:55] <Connor_CNC> why not?
[02:46:56] <cradek> because MDI G0 X1 will give you X 0.0394 in the readout
[02:47:25] <cradek> you've got your display units, your machine units, and your gcode units
[02:47:34] <cradek> they can all be different
[02:47:56] <cradek> er more precisely, they can EACH be either inch or mm
[02:48:13] <cradek> you've chosen machine units mm
[02:48:22] <cradek> this means your tool table is in mm, for instance
[02:48:51] <cradek> it means your display and gcode units also default to mm (but you can change these)
[02:49:25] <cradek> if you want to work primarily in inches with inch tools, you will want an inch ini file, if for no other reason than to get tool lengths/diameters specified in inches
[02:50:00] <cradek> otherwise - quick - what are .25 and .375 and .5 tool diameters in mm?
[02:50:22] <Connor_CNC> normally, I just do G20 and make sure all my g-code is in inches... and toggle view to inches.
[02:50:29] <cradek> 12.7, 6.35, and ... uh ... :-)
[02:50:32] <Connor_CNC> Not really making use of the tool table..
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[02:51:18] <cradek> why do you want a mm ini file when you work primarily in inches?
[02:51:48] <toastydeath> because you enjoy hunting down vauge unit conversion problems
[02:51:58] <toastydeath> a job at NASA is virtually guaranteed
[02:52:02] <Connor_CNC> well, for one, the screw pitch is in mm.. two, it's already setup that way and I don't feel like trying to go through and convert all the settings...
[02:52:21] <cradek> ah
[02:52:42] <Connor_CNC> screw pitch is the biggest thing though..
[02:52:56] <cradek> well scale does not have to be an integer, so this does not hurt you at all
[02:53:06] <cradek> what's the scale on it?
[02:53:38] <Connor_CNC> 40 for x and y, 640 for Z
[02:54:00] <cradek> 40/mm is 1016/inch, no problem
[02:54:16] <cradek> 640 also gives a nice integer
[02:54:47] <cradek> my mill has 25400/inch scale, no big deal
[02:55:08] <cradek> but even if it was 3333.333333333333 that's a fine scale in emc
[02:56:08] <Connor_CNC> I thought it would be a simple matter of just saying VIEW = INCH or something.... Lot of changing stuff around.. Would have to change the MAX and Min settings, the velocity.. etc etc.. what a pain...
[02:56:33] <Connor_CNC> Oh well.. I guess I'll just switch the view when I startup.
[02:56:47] <cradek> whatever works!
[02:59:02] <West0n> Does g code for laser cutting make provions for laser power? As in there is a gcode command to set the power of a laser?
[03:08:28] <ds3> I use the spindle speed for power
[03:09:06] <ds3> does EMC have a way of straightening out non ortogonal x/y axises?
[03:11:02] <cradek> I wrote a kinematics module that did that. I never heard back from the guy I gave it to.
[03:11:28] <cradek> if he was smart, he got a new machine instead of using it, haha
[03:13:41] <cradek> hey I even found it: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/skewkins.c
[03:13:44] <toastydeath> isn't there an axis error thing
[03:13:48] <West0n> You have a laser cnc ds3?
[03:13:57] <cradek> there's screw comp, which does not do what he asks
[03:14:06] <toastydeath> no no, i meant like, an axis error table
[03:14:15] <West0n> I don't think that any cad package alows you to engrave/cut at the same time with laserm
[03:14:31] <toastydeath> i.e. when position x=4.0", y= +.002"
[03:14:40] <cradek> nope
[03:14:46] <toastydeath> oh
[03:14:57] <cradek> screw compensation: when X=4.0 it's actually X=4.0002
[03:15:13] <cradek> it's per joint - they don't know about each other
[03:15:15] <toastydeath> right, not what i am referring to though
[03:15:33] <cradek> but the thing you're saying doesn't exist :-)
[03:15:46] <toastydeath> right, which is why i asked if emc had it
[03:16:06] <toastydeath> it does exist, just not in emc
[03:16:27] <cradek> ok
[03:16:52] <cradek> anyway, skewkins might fix this problem, but it is untested and unsupported
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[03:36:14] <ds3> West0n: yes
[03:36:39] <West0n> Specks? Is it diy?
[03:36:48] <ds3> refitted import cutter
[03:36:54] <toastydeath> ds3, can you align the doodad
[03:37:03] <ds3> in theory, axis adjustment is just pure trig
[03:37:18] <toastydeath> in practice it's not, can you loosen the rails and whack it with a hammer?
[03:37:20] <ds3> toastydeath: I donno, trying to avoid taking it all apart given that it is an import PoS
[03:37:41] <ds3> I tried wacking without loosening but htat'd be the next step if there is no sw to doit
[03:38:03] <West0n> Controled with emc?
[03:38:09] <ds3> worse case, I write a perl script to map it ;)
[03:38:13] <ds3> West0n: yep
[03:38:17] <West0n> What do you generate the g code with?
[03:38:25] <toastydeath> ds3, do you have an error map
[03:38:42] <ds3> I wrote G code by hand or via a C program I write (for engraving bitmaps)
[03:39:03] <ds3> toastydeath: no, I am assuming it is linear since rectangles are coming up as parallelograms
[03:39:31] <toastydeath> how bad are the diagonals off?
[03:40:08] <West0n> You post bitmap to g code online? :)
[03:40:15] <West0n> What's the specks on the laser?
[03:40:24] <West0n> Does it use flying optics?
[03:40:59] <ds3> West0n: no, it isn't useful for others since I hand tune it
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[03:41:27] <ds3> toastydeath: well, on a ~5x5 rectangle, placing it on a square shows the extremes to be almost 1/8" off
[03:41:34] <toastydeath> jesus
[03:41:52] <ds3> West0n: basic 40W CO2 with a moving mirror head
[03:42:05] <toastydeath> if you cut the parallelogram in negative, does it come out straight?
[03:42:21] <ds3> toastydeath: that gets annoying. I thought it was lash but I reprogrammed and got the same thing
[03:42:23] <ds3> nope
[03:42:40] <West0n> So moving optics?
[03:42:47] <West0n> Is there a beam expander?
[03:43:00] <West0n> I was thinking of moving optics for mine
[03:43:04] <ds3> I cut it by doing - move to home, cut along X, go on Y. got back to home, go down Y and over X... Should avoid lash
[03:43:17] <ds3> West0n: yes and yes, there is a lense to focus the beam
[03:43:22] <toastydeath> no no, i meant cutting the parallelogram in reverse, so that a square comes out
[03:43:33] <West0n> But because of beam divergence the cut quality would change
[03:43:48] <West0n> Can you cut 1/4" acrylic?
[03:44:01] <toastydeath> and then checking the square's geometry to make sure your error is mostly linear
[03:44:05] <ds3> West0n: most I have tried is about 4mm acrylic
[03:44:18] <ds3> hmmmmm, I have not tried that
[03:44:56] <West0n> Does it work?
[03:44:59] <toastydeath> in the ideal case, if it is pure misalignment, you should be able to just cut from x0, y0 to x-.125, y5.125 or whatever
[03:45:04] <toastydeath> and have it come out dead square
[03:45:27] <ds3> toastydeath: I will try that to confirm it is a simple linear transform
[03:45:43] <toastydeath> and until you get your stuff hammered out, you can just offset like that
[03:45:48] <ds3> West0n: the 4mm cuts just fine
[03:46:17] <ds3> I can write G-code in perl then have it do the linear transforms... it would suck if I have to share it ;)
[03:47:03] <toastydeath> on lathes it's super easy and common to do
[03:47:14] <toastydeath> because you can enter a relative and absolute value on the same line
[03:47:27] <ds3> ah
[03:47:47] <toastydeath> so like a boring move will start at z0 and go to "Z-2.0 X.005"
[03:47:54] <toastydeath> er, U .005
[03:47:59] <ds3> does EMC let me do that with a ``mill''? something like G00 X5 I0.125 or like?
[03:48:03] <toastydeath> i don't know
[03:48:09] <ds3> what's U relative to?
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[03:48:21] <toastydeath> UVW sit on top of XYZ on most lathe controls, and are relative moves
[03:48:27] <toastydeath> there is no g90/g91 on lathes
[03:48:45] <ds3> ah... same function as IJK?
[03:48:48] <toastydeath> EMC runs with the mill convention, so i don't know if there's a quick thing
[03:48:52] <toastydeath> no, ijk are different
[03:49:00] <ds3> right, g90/g91 means something else... like CSS, IIRC
[03:49:10] <ds3> oh?
[03:49:18] <toastydeath> like, on a lathe, if you type "X10.; U1.0"
[03:49:29] <toastydeath> it'll move to 10" inches on x
[03:49:34] <toastydeath> and the another inch in the positive x direction
[03:49:46] <ds3> and what would IJK/ do?
[03:49:55] <toastydeath> they're parameters for canned cycles
[03:50:03] <ds3> ahhhhhhhhhh
[03:50:15] <ds3> what got me was G02/G03 uses IJK for centers
[03:50:21] <toastydeath> yeah, that's the common notation
[03:50:31] <toastydeath> g02 <endpoint> <relative center>
[03:50:47] <toastydeath> xyz and then ijk, respectively
[03:51:00] <toastydeath> but if you just issue an ijk-something on a random line, nothing happens
[03:51:11] <ds3> I see
[03:51:13] <toastydeath> whereas uvw move the machine immediately
[03:51:31] <ds3> easy enough to simulate that with a preprocessor script
[03:51:36] <toastydeath> yeah
[03:51:54] <ds3> I already write a perl script to generate my G code so I can do fancy math
[03:53:11] <toastydeath> nice
[03:53:58] <ds3> no $$$ for mastercam :(
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[03:54:22] <toastydeath> if i had a machine i would be trying to use those open source apt compilers
[03:54:38] <ds3> apt compilers?
[03:54:45] <toastydeath> old school way of doing cam
[03:54:55] <toastydeath> it's a high level language, compiles to gcode
[03:55:04] <toastydeath> does lofting, mathematically defined curves
[03:55:04] <toastydeath> etc
[03:55:17] <ds3> I see.
[03:55:24] <ds3> perl is easier for me
[03:58:05] <West0n> Ds3, pm
[03:58:32] <ds3> for a lot of stuff, it is easier to write a script
[04:00:17] <toastydeath> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?AptProgrammingForEMC
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[09:18:10] <Gensor> anyone up?
[09:19:55] <archivist> no
[09:20:23] <Gensor> hehehe do you know much about the atom 330
[09:20:51] <archivist> ask the breal question and a lurker can answer if they know
[09:20:55] <archivist> real
[09:22:04] <Gensor> Ive searched the archives and it appears the atom 330 is now king, however no one has referenced a specific motherboard as best or most suggested
[09:22:18] <archivist> people also look at their scroll window so a reply can take hours
[09:23:29] <Gensor> somewhat new to the latency issue, but appears you can shut down components to decrease latency
[09:24:08] <awallin_> not may of the newer 5xx atom's on the list yet... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[09:25:49] <awallin_> someone should make a version of latency-test that automatically gathers cpu, mb, ram, etc. information and sends it to an online database
[09:25:51] <Gensor> I also want to keep my options open, ie LVDS support. Please help point me in the best direction
[09:26:43] <Gensor> yes... that would be nice, that web page is lacking
[09:27:27] <awallin_> an atom motherboard with a mesa pci-card would be plenty good for most machines. what do you want to control?
[09:29:35] <Gensor> servos, spindle, joysticks, fluid... strobe light, I am looking to make a mule system since I have bad habits
[09:30:08] <awallin_> the atom boards are all limited to only one pci-slot afaik. which is bad if you really want to expand...
[09:30:37] <Gensor> I thought mesa cards could work around that
[09:30:58] <awallin_> with one card you get 72 or 96 TTL I/O lines
[09:31:09] <awallin_> but if you need more you would want another card and another pci-slot
[09:32:13] <Gensor> one pci slot will work for my initial needs
[09:35:01] <Gensor> Ive also gathered 512mb ram and 4gig+ sdd with some better read/write speeds is acceptable? Is this still true?
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[09:38:38] <Gensor> Time for me to crash, and look forward to some feedback. Enjoy!
[09:38:43] <awallin_> Gensor: I would go with at least 1g ram, preferably more. I don't remember how much space a minimal install takes, but 4G might be just barely enough(?)
[09:40:18] <Gensor> Thanks awallin
[09:42:06] <Gensor> Price of these components is not much of a consern, but also dont need to build a 4 terabyte system when all that is being used is 4gig+
[10:05:28] -!- jthornton [jthornton!~chatzilla@216-41-156-49.semo.net] has joined #emc
[10:12:22] <Gensor> http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Single-Unit-ATOM330-D945GCLF2D/dp/B001UK0WRK
[10:20:05] <jthornton> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121399&Tpk=d510mo
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[10:26:43] <Gensor> what are the latency differences?
[10:37:54] <awallin_> there might be latency test values in the mailing list archives for the newer 510 or 520. I think it's quite ok.
[10:38:31] <awallin_> the 330 is fine for running emc, but if you start compiling something you notice how dead slow it is compared to an i7 or some other recent fast cpu
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[13:10:06] <Paragon39> How does .01 - .015 seem for spindle run out?
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[13:10:10] <Paragon39> mm
[13:11:58] <jthornton> how did you fix it?
[13:15:46] <Paragon39> jthornton: I havent yet. I just measured the spindle ID TIR without the collet's and the above is the figure I am seeing. This should be adequate with regards to spindle right?
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[13:16:27] <jthornton> yep that is good to me
[13:18:13] <Paragon39> So it's got to be the Chinese imported crappy R8 - ER25 collet holder or the equaly cheap crappy chinese imported collet. Off to do some more investigation.
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[13:21:50] <Paragon39> Heres another question... I have a couple of those belkin ethernet mains transmission devices. I use one in the workshop due to no wireless reaching it. When I power up the mill stepper drivers they loose contact with each other due to noise from the drivers. What would be a good solution to minimise the line noise from these drivers? Ferrite beads of some sort im presuming but were to...
[13:21:51] <Paragon39> ...locate them?
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[13:30:21] <jdhNC> isolation transformer
[13:30:49] <jdhNC> other than the stepper noise killing them, how do they work?
[13:32:48] <archivist> throw them away and use real network cable
[13:33:10] <skunkworks> ditto
[13:33:10] <jdhNC> I'd do that, but it would involve crawling under my house
[13:33:20] <skunkworks> good exersize
[13:33:25] <skunkworks> ;)
[13:33:49] <archivist> around house or over house or drill holes in walls
[13:34:13] <alex_joni> get some proper wifi cable
[13:34:54] <Paragon39> jdhNC: They work surprising well when the steppers drives are off. They are rated at 200Mbs. I use another to stream movies from a server to my TV.
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[13:35:18] <jdhNC> that's what I wanted to do. My bluray wifi doesn't work so hot
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[13:41:51] <Paragon39> jdhNC: I thought they were Belkin but infarct they are Netgear HDX101 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Netgear-Powerline-Definition-Ethernet-Adapter/dp/B000GG4PYA
[13:42:39] <Paragon39> What the Infarct!? ;-)
[13:43:11] <jdhNC> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10501&cs_id=1050106&p_id=6999
[13:43:20] <jdhNC> $66/pair, wonder if they work
[13:44:22] <Paragon39> Looks like a good deal if they work.... Right off to workshop, Back soon!
[13:49:09] <jdhNC> I have a PCI wifi card in my EMC box, the external antenna seems to help
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[14:27:33] <Paragon-WS> Ok... I've cured the problem with the Netgear connection. Should have read the manual! I had one end plugged into a 4way gang It worked ok for day to day needs so never really thought about it. Anyway the simple fix = plug the device directly into a wall socket. Getting 9.49 Mb with stepper drives on and 37.16Mps with drives off so can live with that :-)
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[14:36:27] <jdhNC> cool, maybe I'll order a pair
[14:36:55] <jdhNC> to make up for having my router/wap located badly
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[14:45:30] <Paragon-WS> The Made In Great Britain R8 Collets now fit the spindle after a little Dremmel grinding of the pin locating groove. :-)
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[15:49:06] <Paragon-WS> I have put a 3/8 endmill an R8 holder and the dti is showing .04mm runout how does this fair?
[15:50:57] <Paragon-WS> Re measured it .035mm
[15:55:36] <cradek> is this a weldon endmill holder, or a collet?
[15:56:12] <Paragon-WS> its a collet
[15:56:25] <cpresser> how long is the tool?
[15:57:08] <cradek> wonder if it's the collet or the spindle
[15:57:58] <archivist> re mount and re measure look at variation
[15:58:20] <archivist> and clean first
[16:00:28] <Paragon-WS> i am measuring about 4 mm from the collet on the shank of the endmill seeing about .035mm runout then raising the spindle by 10mm and am seeing .05mm runout.
[16:01:15] <Paragon-WS> I measured about 0.015mm from inside the spindle.
[16:02:13] <archivist> I tested some chinese collets and they were not that good at all
[16:03:08] <Paragon-WS> This is an old Made in Great Britain when we was proud of it collet. ;-)
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[16:04:24] <IchGuckLive> Hi all !
[16:04:27] <archivist> but has it had twenty decades of abuse
[16:05:04] <IchGuckLive> is there a company with the name of oure Enhanced mashine controller 2 ?
[16:05:07] <IchGuckLive> http://www.life4sports.de/motorsport-adac-gt-masters-2010-mit-sven-hannawald/
[16:05:18] <Paragon-WS> God knows it looks in good order and cost me £25.00 ;-)
[16:05:26] <IchGuckLive> picture shows the name as a sponsor in german Grandprix
[16:06:24] <Paragon-WS> I going to try the R8 / er25 holder with a unused 6mm collet. Chinese though! See what i measure with that.
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[16:14:40] <Paragon-WS> jeez thats giving me .12 runout! :-(
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[16:24:23] <Paragon-WS> Ok tried another er25 nut and am now seeing .05mm 4mm from collet and .08mm 14mm from collet. Scratching head..
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[17:39:17] <Guest85744> re
[17:39:23] Guest85744 is now known as slime2k
[17:39:32] <slime2k> need a little help
[17:40:17] <slime2k> changed my servo controller firmware to use a step multiplyer
[17:41:08] <slime2k> the question is which parameter i have to change in .ini
[17:41:16] <slime2k> sthe SCALE option?
[17:41:25] <Paragon-WS> Think I've sussed out the Chinese ER25 collet runnout issue! I've got zero runnout or at leased unmeasurable on my .01mm graduated DTI. Measuring a 3mm router bit 15mm from collet mouth. :-)
[17:42:21] <slime2k> i allready made custom changes to my ini files, so i dont want to use the stepconf wizard
[17:45:34] <Paragon-WS> slime2k: I am no authority and it's been a while but I think its SCALE in the AXIS's sections...
[17:46:11] <Paragon-WS> (it's been awhile since I edited the .ini file)
[17:46:52] <slime2k> ok, but half or double the value
[17:49:03] <Paragon-WS> not sure sure... I'm guessing it depends on how much you've multiplied your steps..
[17:52:16] <Paragon-WS> slime2k: I think you will find what you need in the EMC Integrators Manual (page 19) if not I am sure someone with a little more experience than I will assist.
[17:55:28] <Paragon-WS> slime2k: You could try and play with the number in stepperconf and save the output to another file (or take a copy of the original .ini).
[18:02:41] <slime2k> i think half the value was right
[18:02:44] <slime2k> looks good
[18:08:31] <JT-Shop> slime2k: SCALE is the number of steps per user unit... so if you changed from a single step to double step you need to double the SCALE
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[18:16:35] <slime2k> i changed from 1024 counts/rev
[18:16:41] <slime2k> to 512 counts
[18:19:25] <JT-Shop> so your firmware now gives you 2 steps out for each step you give it?
[18:19:50] <slime2k> yes
[18:21:02] <JT-Shop> yea, I do that with panasonic step and direction drives to increase the servo speed :)
[18:21:21] <slime2k> :D
[18:21:33] <slime2k> thats what i want to do
[18:22:56] <slime2k> that was the first step
[18:23:28] <slime2k> next is to seperate the logic and motor supply
[18:23:44] <slime2k> at this moment i use 27V
[18:24:40] <slime2k> the new transformer has 51V
[18:25:02] <slime2k> but i think this will blow up the 7805 for the avr
[18:25:05] <slime2k> :D
[18:28:13] * JT-Shop wanders inside to take a nap
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[18:30:42] <Jymmm> Using a lightbox (such as when they put your xrays up on) as a light source, can anyone think of a way to give the perception of depth (3 levels) using a flat (paper thin) surface?
[18:31:57] <Jymmm> the lightbox itself can be one of those levels
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[18:42:22] <FinboySlick> I've been toying with an idea for a little while. Servos typically provide quadrature encoding and are pretty fast. However they usually only keep track of relative (incremental/decremental) positioning. Couldn't some sort of slow absolute positioning measurement be easily coupled with a servo encoder to have awareness of an axis' absolute position even from a cold start? It would only have to be accurate within the relative motion of a full quadrature ro
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[18:57:43] <andypugh> So, if my existing Acme screw is 28mm, should the replacement ballscrew be 25mm or 32mm?
[19:00:00] <Jymmm> 10 TPI is 10 TPI
[19:00:51] <Jymmm> be it 10mm, 28mm, or 32mm
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[19:10:17] <andypugh> I am indifferent about the pitch. The question is related to strength and stiffness.
[19:10:48] <Jymmm> more is better? stiffer, stronger
[19:11:03] <Jymmm> as long as you have the clearance for it that is
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[19:11:28] <cradek> my only thought is that the root diameter of a ballscrew is a lot bigger than the root diameter of an acme
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[19:31:45] <Jymmm> ArtCamExpress $149 USD http://www.artcamexpress.com/
[19:41:30] <jdhNC> looks vectric like but hard to tell what is actually included
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[19:57:05] <andypugh> I will have a bit of a struggle fitting a 32mm ballnut in. Even the 25 is going to need an interesting bearing arrangement.
[19:57:55] <cradek> if the 32 doesn't fit, you have an answer :-)
[19:58:16] <andypugh> Anything will fit, if i repalce enough parts.
[19:58:35] <andypugh> Currently the bearing is a 72x35 double angular contact bearing.
[19:59:52] <andypugh> I think I am likely to end up with a 50x70 ball thrust to take the weight, and a rather smaller needle-thrust to pull the knee down (in the unlikely event that it needs it)
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[20:08:51] <archivist> andypugh, how long do you require
[20:09:05] <andypugh> How long what?
[20:09:12] <archivist> ballscrew
[20:09:20] <andypugh> 400mm I think
[20:10:02] <archivist> hmm, I have one I got on fleabay, may be a bit on the fat side
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[20:10:37] <andypugh> Finding room for the nut is the problem. Specifically the nut flange.
[20:10:57] <archivist> this is a new one for a Huron iirc
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[20:14:20] <archivist> bit fatter than I remembered 40mm dia
[20:15:14] <andypugh> Sounds lovely, but a bit fat.
[20:17:02] <archivist> about 540mm screw plus another 100 ish for mounting
[20:21:47] <andypugh> What is the nut type?
[20:22:20] <andypugh> Actually, there is no way I could even get the screw down the hole into the base. Forget I asked.
[20:22:37] <archivist> round flange
[20:23:22] <archivist> this is a bit big but it looked lovely on ebay :)
[20:23:29] <andypugh> (Though I could re-visit my idea of mounting the servo motor on a bearing on the end of the screw, and having the motor travel up and down with the screw, with a reaction arm...)
[20:23:59] <archivist> its a warner electric/thomson one too
[20:24:07] <andypugh> Yes, I have done the same thing with a boring head and some capacitors "It didn't look anything like that big in the photo"
[20:25:58] <Paragon39> Guys not sure if this is new but I was entering some work in the 3 jaw chuck on the lathe but was having trouble getting repeatability and due to the fact I was also playing with some bearings etc I had a rare moment of insight. I fixed a 608 bearing on the end of piece of square stock so it the bearing was just hanging over the end. I then fixed it to the tool post, clamped a piece of round...
[20:26:00] <Paragon39> ...stock lightly in the 3 jaw and advanced the bearing to meet the side of stock once trued I then tightened the chuck and measured runnout it measured less than .005mm. and took about a matter of seconds! :-)
[20:26:23] <Paragon39> entering = centering
[20:28:01] <andypugh> I think that is how jewelers centre stuff in wax chucks. (And potters)
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[20:31:58] <Paragon39> On my watch makers lathe I normally centre by fingers and use shellac took quite a bit of practice though.
[20:32:36] <Paragon39> The bearing method above I used on the Boxford AUD.
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[21:33:16] <Paragon39> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgH7zf-xmE8
[21:33:58] <andypugh> For some reason I think archivist might like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnpLaEg1mLw&feature=feedrec_grec_index
[21:36:03] <Paragon39> LOL .... was that Fred Dibnah "Did You Like That?" Love it!
[21:37:41] <Paragon39> How the hell do they all know when to brake ;-)
[21:37:49] <andypugh> Paragon39: Nice, but a bit of a toy. This was made last year in Keighley: http://www.deansmithandgrace.co.uk/icms_assets/files/Travelling_Gantry_Machine.pdf
[21:38:30] <Connor> WooT, Grizzly haws the 704 back on their site.
[21:39:05] <jdhNC> did it ever leave?
[21:39:34] <Paragon39> andypugh: Very Nice... Just need to make room for it!
[21:39:51] <Connor> yea, they took it for a few weeks.
[21:40:41] <jdhNC> I ordered one in December, and again in January, and again in March
[21:40:55] <Connor> Still don't have it ?
[21:41:00] <jdhNC> nope
[21:41:12] <jdhNC> last word was april 29
[21:41:29] <Connor> They had issues with the spindle
[21:41:40] <Connor> and had to work out something with the factory about it..
[21:41:42] <jdhNC> since then, teh price has gone up $50 and my coupon has expired
[21:41:59] <Connor> nice long thread on CNCZone about it.
[21:42:11] <jdhNC> hte hoss one, or another?
[21:42:52] <Connor> the other one.. let me find it.
[21:47:24] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/124249-g0704_discontinued-8.html
[21:48:33] <jdhNC> pete from TN ordered his teh week after I did... but he got one.
[21:49:35] <Connor> When do they charge your account ?
[21:49:38] <Connor> when it ships ?
[21:50:04] <jdhNC> I guess, people report seeing the charge, then getting shipping info a few days laster
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[22:11:03] <JT-Shop> and all is quiet on the forum...
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[22:57:31] <andypugh> <tumbleweed>
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