#emc | Logs for 2011-04-08

[00:00:14] <aggrav8d> nope.
[00:00:38] <JT-Shop> cup point set screws?
[00:00:43] <aggrav8d> ?
[00:00:53] <aggrav8d> and one of the shafts is decidedly not round. i had to dremel it to get the bearing & sprocket on.
[00:01:00] <JT-Shop> hmmm how do I describe that...
[00:01:21] <aggrav8d> picture
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[00:01:45] <aggrav8d> i found one. yes.
[00:01:55] <JT-Shop> http://www.radax.com/store.asp?pid=15198
[00:02:43] <aggrav8d> also i think the teeth (?) are damaged, or my alan keys are wrong size. I can tighten to a certain point and after that my key just "pops".
[00:02:58] <JT-Shop> that is about as good as you can get then without flats on the shaft, unless they are worn out then some new ones might help
[00:03:10] <JT-Shop> yea, they are trash
[00:03:11] <aggrav8d> they're brand new.
[00:03:30] <JT-Shop> then get a new allen wrench LOL
[00:03:31] * aggrav8d sighs
[00:03:41] <aggrav8d> alen keys?
[00:03:43] <JT-Shop> and replace the now damaged screws
[00:03:48] <JT-Shop> yes
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[00:04:02] <aggrav8d> damnit.
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[00:05:21] <JT-Shop> it does sound like the method of fixing the sprockets to the shafts is not a secure enough connection... any way to put at least one small flat on the shaft?
[00:05:44] <JT-Shop> careful filing comes to mind
[00:05:45] <aggrav8d> i don't have any reliable way. i have only the most rudimentary tools.
[00:06:12] <JT-Shop> you can do it with a file if you take your time and are careful
[00:07:18] <JT-Shop> it does not take much of a flat, just enough for the cup point to sit in
[00:07:41] <aggrav8d> http://buildyourcnc.com/images/drive%20sprocket-25%20200.JPG drive sprocket #24.
[00:07:48] <JT-Shop> so instead of sliding around the shaft it has to climb a small hill to move so very difficult
[00:07:59] <aggrav8d> er, #25. 9 teeth at 1/4"/tooth and 1/4" bore.
[00:08:15] <JT-Shop> it's on a screw or a shaft?
[00:08:20] <aggrav8d> shaft.
[00:08:28] <aggrav8d> screw is just for comparison.
[00:08:39] <JT-Shop> a small flat will improve the holding power a lot
[00:09:02] <JT-Shop> as well as getting a new allen key and replacing the now damaged screws
[00:09:30] <JT-Shop> my neighbor would weld it on...
[00:09:52] <JT-Shop> but I never buy anything he has worked on either :)
[00:09:57] <aggrav8d> you have fun neighbours.
[00:10:14] <JT-Shop> yes I do and for the most part we get along
[00:11:14] <JT-Shop> a good neighbor is one you can't see from your deck... so all mine are good sorta
[00:14:19] <aggrav8d> I can see several neighbour's homes... but never the people.
[00:14:27] <aggrav8d> it's a bit like living in a ghost town.
[00:20:11] * JT-Shop heads inside now and calls it a night out in the shop
[00:20:11] <JT-Shop> good luck
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[00:58:15] <unaHm_> thanks sumpfralle
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[02:33:22] <aggrav8d> http://imgur.com/a/IkQBK#HXIwr
[02:33:28] <aggrav8d> success!?
[02:33:55] <elmo40> the centre one? ;)
[02:34:06] <elmo40> what is it for?
[02:38:57] <jdhNC> cool, what all did you do?
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[02:51:57] <atom1> wtfbbq
[02:51:59] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/lightseeker/light_wheel1
[02:52:07] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/lightseeker/light_wheel2
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[03:12:46] <aggrav8d> jdhNC - tightened everything down, resquared it, and suddenly this time it decided to play ball.
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[06:34:16] <Connor> okay, so, question, what does everyone do with the extra wire on the stepper motors? My motors came with the wires loose, and not in insulation.. I'm using 4 conductor stranded alarm wire for hookup.. I have it in a drag chain, but, don't like the idea of the loose wires being in it, and my splice being exposed..
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[07:08:36] <Jymmm> split-loom tubing, spiral wrap, and/or shrink wrap.
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[08:24:11] <atom1> i took the shrinkwrap route
[08:26:45] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/stepper10.jpg
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[09:14:46] <Paragon39> pastbin.ca down?
[09:15:25] <Paragon39> sorry pastebin.ca down?
[09:19:15] <Paragon39> I have knocked up an a quick and dirty optocoupler board with eagle could you let me know if it appears OK? http://imagebin.org/147136
[09:22:07] <archivist> probably, not a lot to go wrong
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[09:23:50] <Paragon39> I was a little concerned about the out section which is on the header side btw with regards to the single resistor.
[09:24:02] <archivist> not enough info to say yay/nay
[09:24:17] <Paragon39> Output Left input on the right of the image.
[09:25:27] <Paragon39> Would a single resistor for the output be adequate or should I have a resistor for each output?
[09:25:58] <archivist> outputs dont need a resistor for the SD2 drives
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[09:26:28] <Paragon39> archivist: Well that answered my question :-)
[09:26:50] <archivist> and more important is basic wiring and circuit
[09:29:07] <archivist> 6 optos are they all the same physical way round
[09:29:22] <Paragon39> Thanks archivist.. Gotta say I'm struggling a little today, a little to much guinness last night :-)
[09:30:13] <Paragon39> Yes all the same way. The image shows six but they are actually 3 8pin ILD74's.
[09:41:59] <archivist> are your input led's forward biased
[09:48:11] <Paragon39> archivist: Sorry for the delay in replying I was just pulled away.. Yes they are forward biased.
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[11:22:25] <atom1> Paragon39, why are the 2 center outputs tied together?
[11:23:38] <atom1> maybe that's a common feed for the optos
[11:25:20] <atom1> make sure the optos don't have any polarity issues
[11:25:59] <atom1> i can't tell much about them from the board file
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[11:32:14] <atom1> you don't need resistors on the input leds?
[11:32:30] <atom1> 60ma seems like alot to drive
[11:32:36] <atom1> x 12
[11:32:49] <atom1> err 6
[11:35:39] <atom1> i would use 6 instead of 1 i think
[11:38:58] <archivist> the parport cannot drive 60 ma
[11:43:24] <atom1> i'd also use smt resistors and make the board smaller
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[12:44:34] <anonimasu> anyone here with a understanding of the mesa 7i43
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[12:45:41] <micges_cnc> anonimasu: what is the problem?
[12:46:14] <anonimasu> my output works but I cant toggle it manually
[12:46:43] <anonimasu> I have a 7i47-com board on my second poart of the 7i43 and I cant get anything out
[12:46:55] <anonimasu> but with my old config it makes the outputs stuck as soon as i start emc
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[12:47:17] <anonimasu> it might simply be me setting the wrong port
[12:48:00] <micges_cnc> what is lspci saying about your lpt port address?
[12:48:08] <anonimasu> my boards work i can jog around
[12:48:17] <anonimasu> but I cant use the gpio board
[12:48:21] <anonimasu> (I dont know how)
[12:48:49] <anonimasu> what do I need to set? (do i need to set the gpio.040.is_output before I send stuff to gpio.040.out
[12:50:07] <micges_cnc> yes you must
[12:50:28] <anonimasu> and just halcmd setp it?
[12:50:32] <micges_cnc> mesa pins are inputs by default
[12:50:50] <anonimasu> I see
[12:50:50] <micges_cnc> halcmd or better hal file
[12:52:34] <anonimasu> can i load a halfile through halcmd?
[12:53:22] <anonimasu> nvm
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[12:53:46] <micges_cnc> halcmd -f [filename]
[12:53:57] <anonimasu> still nothing
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[12:54:12] <anonimasu> 38-43 as outputs now
[12:56:01] <micges_cnc> wait
[12:56:08] <micges_cnc> you use 7i47?
[12:56:12] <anonimasu> yes
[12:56:20] <anonimasu> oh
[12:56:21] <anonimasu> no
[12:56:40] <anonimasu> 7i43 + a 7i47 and a 7i37com
[12:57:00] <anonimasu> i want to get output on the 7i37
[12:57:05] <micges_cnc> ok
[12:58:31] <anonimasu> connected to p4
[12:59:35] <micges_cnc> it seems that you have outputs on 40 to 47 pins
[13:00:09] <micges_cnc> or 16 to 23 if it is on first port
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[13:00:37] <micges_cnc> and those pins you have set is_output ?
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[13:02:08] <anonimasu> yes
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[13:03:35] <anonimasu> not for all tho
[13:03:59] <micges_cnc> I understand
[13:04:01] <anonimasu> let me fix that
[13:04:50] <anonimasu> done
[13:06:04] <anonimasu> its on out0 or out1
[13:07:26] <micges_cnc> it's works now?
[13:07:30] <anonimasu> no
[13:07:32] <anonimasu> still the same
[13:07:53] <anonimasu> I have a file with gpoi.xx.is_output for 40-47 = true
[13:08:00] <Eik0> gpoi~
[13:08:31] <anonimasu> and I setp it makes no difference for the outputs if i do so
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[13:17:44] <anonimasu> I get 0.408v out
[13:18:09] <SWPadnos> is-opendrain?
[13:18:43] <anonimasu> I dont know about that do i need to toggle that too?
[13:19:08] <SWPadnos> you probably want it off
[13:19:46] <SWPadnos> also, make sure you aren't enabling any special features that might be on that port (like stepgens, encoders, PWMs ...)
[13:20:00] <anonimasu> i have that on another port
[13:20:22] <SWPadnos> are you running two 7i43?
[13:20:26] <anonimasu> only one
[13:20:30] <anonimasu> with two daughtercards
[13:20:32] <SWPadnos> ok, just making sure
[13:20:39] <anonimasu> standard config
[13:20:45] <anonimasu> my machine moves with the default stepgens
[13:21:10] <SWPadnos> I don't know the pinout of the 7i43 advanced features, so I can't tell you if something is on the second header
[13:21:28] <SWPadnos> you have the pinout in dmesg I think, you could look at what the driver thinks is there
[13:22:44] <anonimasu> one second gonna compare to the datasheet
[13:23:11] <SWPadnos> what is on your loadrt line (the one with num_stepgens)?
[13:23:41] <anonimasu> 3
[13:23:53] <anonimasu> and one encoder
[13:24:00] <anonimasu> (not added yet)
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[13:27:10] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[13:28:37] * anonimasu sighs
[13:28:40] <anonimasu> what the hell is wrong.....
[13:28:48] <anonimasu> it turns on stuck with my old config
[13:29:02] <anonimasu> it complains about parport mode might that be the issue?
[13:29:10] <anonimasu> because it works I can move the axews
[13:29:13] <anonimasu> axes...
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[13:47:14] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, which update functions are added to threads?
[13:47:23] <SWPadnos> there is a separate update-gpio function, I believe
[13:49:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm. no, read and write should do it all
[13:50:23] <FinboySlick> On that topic, is gpio typically better than standard PC parallel port for step generation?
[13:50:36] <SWPadnos> no, a stepgen is
[13:51:36] <SWPadnos> are you talking about GPIO like a ComputerBoards or other I/O card?
[13:52:21] <FinboySlick> Mostly just built-in GPIO as found on some motherboards and usually embeded SBCs.
[13:52:56] <SWPadnos> I haven't tried any of those as yet. I have some Mini-ITX boards that have some, like a Jetway or two
[13:53:19] <SWPadnos> as long as it's simple port reads/writes, it should be OK (electrical characteristics aside)
[13:53:53] <FinboySlick> Yeah, these tend to be 3.3v, no? And parport 12v, right?
[13:54:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Did you see those multi I/O atom boards someone was talking to you abouty last week?
[13:54:18] <SWPadnos> yes, I think it was FinboySlick :)
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[13:54:29] <SWPadnos> multi ethernet, with pass-through modes
[13:54:36] <Jymmm> yeah
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[13:55:17] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Yeah... I'm not just 'someone', you know. Mpf...
[13:55:30] * FinboySlick kids, of course.
[13:55:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Did you see those multi I/O atom boards some bitch was talking to you about last week?
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[13:56:02] <SWPadnos> no. the person seemed to be an idiot, so I ignored him
[13:56:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Gotcha, I concur
[13:56:38] <SWPadnos> anyway :)
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[13:57:04] <FinboySlick> I'd take no offence at 'idot' actually. As far as EMC goes, I readily admit to being one.
[13:58:35] <SWPadnos> eh. it's not that hard, it's just detailed (if you don't want something simple that can be configured with stepconf)
[13:59:07] <ries> Paragon39: if you can make the tracks a bit thicker, that usually helps during soldering, better connections, more 'rugged' etc.
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[14:06:03] <FinboySlick> SWPadnos: I'm sure I'll figure it out relatively well. It's mostly lack of experience right now. Between dayjob and just the physical setup of my mill I barely had time to toy with it. I hang around here to catch blurbs of information and file them for later.
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[14:08:35] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: That's not being an idiot, that's just not knowing (ignorance), which can be easily resolved, just take s a little time to absorb it all and then one day you'll go "Oh, I get it now" =)
[14:09:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You seen Thunderbolt yet?
[14:11:34] <SWPadnos> the phone?
[14:12:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Thunderbolt == External PCI-E I/O
[14:12:32] <SWPadnos> no, not under that name
[14:12:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 10Gbps
[14:12:46] <SWPadnos> Is that the "Light Peak" implementation in the new Macs?
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[14:12:51] <SWPadnos> ok
[14:12:57] <SWPadnos> yes, I have heard of it
[14:13:11] <Jymmm> http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/index.htm
[14:13:33] <SWPadnos> yeah, it used to be called "Light Peak"
[14:13:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, cool, so when can I expect YOu to create a Thunderbolt i/O bridge for cnc ?
[14:14:12] <SWPadnos> 2937, late October
[14:14:15] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: jsut the standard
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[14:14:22] <anonimasu> i using the default stuff
[14:14:22] <SWPadnos> (and no, the 9 is not a typo)
[14:14:39] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: so i dont know about the gpio update stuff
[14:14:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Since you can daisychain, should be easy to have 20 axis and no timing issues
[14:15:05] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, it looks like the standard read/write should update I/O along with everything else
[14:15:39] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, 10Gbps doesn't say anything about latency or turnaround, as you should well know by now (after all our discussions about USB)
[14:16:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sure, but it's direct PCI-e interface, no latency issues as should be faster than PCI even
[14:17:19] <anonimasu> no damn clue :S about this
[14:17:30] <tom3p> limbo limbo how low can you go? how low is "Low latency with highly accurate time synchronization"
[14:22:37] <SWPadnos> I guess Mesa already has Thunderbolt products then :)
[14:23:10] <SWPadnos> since they have external cabled PCIe cards. All you'd need is a converter box to change the electrical connections to standard PCIe
[14:26:44] <pcw_home> PCIE is not a robust field bus ( the noise from a drive will knock it for a loop) its great for getting out of the box however
[14:27:49] <SWPadnos> there were several companies with PCIE networking (and storage) interconnects at RTECC this year. it was interesting
[14:28:19] <SWPadnos> 80 Gb/s speeds with multiple lane cabling, 8-port PCIe switches (like a network switch)
[14:28:28] <pcw_home> Yes i thnk it will kill Infiniband
[14:28:50] <SWPadnos> probably, since it was 10x faster and 1/3 the cost (or something like that)
[14:29:44] <pcw_home> If Intel had just not added that silly 30 KHz beacon business it could have been transformer coupled
[14:29:54] <SWPadnos> I wonder what the Thunderbolt controller chips will cost (and what they'll need on the device end as far as I/O bandwidth)
[14:30:03] <pcw_home> oh well
[14:30:31] <SWPadnos> huh - is that a cable/connection detection mechanism or something?
[14:31:14] <pcw_home> And will they be "logo licenced" like Apple stuff
[14:31:16] <pcw_home> yes detection, kind of like the 1.5k USB resistor
[14:33:36] <pcw_home> I think the beacon business is about detecting the other end without firing up the (power hungry) PLL/PHY
[14:35:46] <geo01005> so I have a quick question about realtime hal component and the log function... It looks like the log function is not supported in rtapi_math.h
[14:36:37] <geo01005> is there a technical reason? or just nobody has ever needed to perform a log function in a realtime component?
[14:39:54] <SWPadnos> geo01005, I think it just hasn't been necessary. I don't know of any technical reason why it couldn't be added to rtapi_math.h (or rtapi_math_i386.h)
[14:40:57] <SWPadnos> though I haven't looked at the i386 instruction set to see if that's a library call or an intrinsic function. if it's an intrinsic, it's OK. library call, not so much
[14:40:58] <geo01005> I see, I was trying to make a quick thermistor linearization component that requires a log function.
[14:41:13] <SWPadnos> how fast is your thermistor?
[14:41:34] <SWPadnos> they're usually not all that fast response devices, so a userspace linearization might suffice
[14:41:37] <geo01005> My component dosen't have to be realtime, it just makes me feel better.
[14:41:38] <JT-Shop> there not that fast
[14:42:29] <geo01005> I just don't have a good feel for what the worst practical case delay in userspace is.
[14:42:49] <geo01005> Of course it depends on the hardware...
[14:42:55] <SWPadnos> well, look at it this way - what is using the thermistor output?
[14:43:15] <SWPadnos> barring terrible things, you're looking at a few milliseconds
[14:43:17] <geo01005> heater control, I was looking at using emc to close the loop.
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[14:43:33] <Jymmm> Thermal nuclear device
[14:43:42] <SWPadnos> ok, so it will be a PID, which will happen to be in realtime since that's where our PID is
[14:43:49] <geo01005> yeah.
[14:43:59] <Jymmm> Thermal nuclear device controlled by EMC
[14:45:07] <geo01005> At the moment the analog signal from the thermistor will be coming in on the usb bus anyway, so it doesn't mater if it is realtime, there will still be delays.
[14:45:17] <Jymmm> and ESCape is futile!
[14:45:18] <SWPadnos> it's not realtime then
[14:45:39] <SWPadnos> there is no EMC USB driver that is realtime, so it's going through hal_input or something else in userspace anyway
[14:45:44] <geo01005> I just wanted to make the thermistor component realtime for other applications that might have a realtime signal.
[14:46:34] <geo01005> Of course if I can just make a lookup table in the realtime component and perform the calculation before compile time.
[14:47:10] <Jymmm> Couldn't you just use serial port and have other applcations just pole /dev/ttyx as needed?
[14:47:32] <geo01005> USB serial port on a arduino.
[14:48:14] <SWPadnos> I don't see a log10 instruction (in my very brief search), but there is a log2 instruction, and you can multiply by the appropriate constant to get log10 (and there's an instruction to push that constant on the FP stack as well, I think)
[14:48:19] <Jymmm> I eant shoving the theritor on the serial port directly
[14:49:01] <SWPadnos> so log10 would be a 3-instruction assembly snippet in rtapi_math_i386.h: log2, push, multiply
[14:49:04] <geo01005> well, I need log base e
[14:49:20] <SWPadnos> ok, there's probably an ln function :)
[14:49:37] <SWPadnos> which should make it a single instruction, much like some of the others in that file
[14:49:56] <geo01005> yeah, that would require compiling EMC source though right?
[14:50:24] <SWPadnos> huh. nope, just log2 (weird)
[14:50:52] <SWPadnos> at least as described on this terribly old looking web page: http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA/Windows/HTML/RealArithmetica2.html
[14:50:55] <tom3p> if its of any use rtai's ilogb function http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/php/tjuerges/ALMA/RTOS-3.7.1/api/s__ilogb_8c-source.html
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[14:54:00] <geo01005> well, there are several easy ways to solve my problem, I mostly wanted to know if there was some existing way of doing the ln function.
[14:54:07] <tom3p> you need base e? forget the int func then
[14:56:08] <geo01005> Currently I have a userspace component and I'll live with that until I have some real reason to use a realtime component.
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[15:25:50] * FinboySlick has to share this one: http://failblog.org/2011/04/07/epic-fail-photos-ipod-fail/ (laser engraving is semi on-topic anyway, no?)
[15:28:30] <Jymmm> lasers suck!
[15:29:33] <Jymmm> Well ok, the blower connected to my laser sucks that is!
[15:30:52] <FinboySlick> To quote Spaceballs: "Oh no! She went from 'Suck' to 'Blow'!"
[15:30:59] <FinboySlick> Or something along those lines anyway.
[15:34:52] <Jymmm> =)
[15:39:23] <tom3p> i run a rip of EMC2 - 2.6.0~pre, & theres a 'timer' comp in 2.5, (http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?SimpleCycleTimer) , i cannot man timer
[15:39:29] <tom3p> what am i doing wrong?
[15:39:45] <JT-Shop> tom3p: what are you trying to do?
[15:39:49] <tom3p> man timer
[15:39:58] <tom3p> just for info
[15:40:10] <JT-Shop> it will be in your dev directory so you have to provide the full paht
[15:40:12] <JT-Shop> path
[15:40:17] <JT-Shop> to man
[15:40:56] <tom3p> ok i just set env ( cd emc2-dev; . scripts/emc-environment; man timer )
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[15:41:13] <JT-Shop> ah yea that too :)
[15:41:28] <JT-Shop> I keep forgetting about that
[15:41:38] <tom3p> i did that, ng, can you man timer? or is 2.5 newer than 2.6.0~pre ?
[15:41:40] <JT-Shop> I use it on my lathe for a cycle timer
[15:41:59] <anonimasu> im gonna hm..
[15:42:00] <tom3p> newer/different
[15:42:01] <anonimasu> i found the output
[15:42:10] <psha> tom3p: ~pre is newer then any lower versions
[15:42:11] <anonimasu> but it seems like somewhere this pinout is moved all around
[15:42:12] <anonimasu> :(
[15:42:19] <psha> 2.5 and 2.6 have already diverged a bit
[15:42:23] <anonimasu> so my old wiring dosent work
[15:42:36] <tom3p> psha JT-Shop ok thx
[15:43:02] <anonimasu> PCW: are you around?
[15:44:04] <tom3p> JT-Shop do you have time-to-go and/or time-elapsed?
[15:44:20] <JT-Shop> time elapsed
[15:44:32] <JT-Shop> time to go is very hard to figure out
[15:45:44] <pcw_home> yes
[15:46:52] <tom3p> i was thinking some digital markers in the gcode at a known distance along path would give a good estimate ( like at 10% of path length, using m62...69 )
[15:47:30] <tom3p> cad system would need to calc path total len, and some tool to set markers into (near) points of gcode
[15:47:43] <Jymmm> isn't there a ETA in axis once you load a file?
[15:48:08] <Jymmm> under properties or some such thing
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[15:56:25] <JT-Shop> tom3p: if you can calculate the length, commanded speed, acceleration/deceleration time for each move you can get close unless you use the naive cam detector then that throws all that out the window
[16:02:57] <tom3p> JT i was think more pragmatic, know the time at 10% of path and display estimate of the 90% to be done. based on markers >like< M64 P1 whatever the immediate one was
[16:04:02] <tom3p> set the flag when that point gets executed, measure the time till that flag, estimate the timetogo based on what actually happening now ( feed speed acc deacc all included )
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[16:09:58] <JT-Shop> would it not be an easier task to have a post processor that calculated the estimated time and when running display the time left with a count down timer... and I'm just thinking out loud atm
[16:11:53] <JT-Shop> tom3p: have you looked at file properties in Axis?
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[16:19:17] <Paragon39> Can EMC2 run more than one instance of itself on the same PC? For example one instance to run a lathe the other for the mill?
[16:19:38] <tom3p> JT-Shop thx i never looked at that before, interesting. The timer could divide that , or ignore it and use the actual time and distance done ( isnt that some old song? ;)
[16:19:55] <SWPadnos> Paragon39, not at the same time
[16:20:13] <SWPadnos> you can of course have multiple configurations, and use one or the other depending on which machine you want to use
[16:20:30] <SWPadnos> but you can't run two machines at the same time with two instances of EMC
[16:20:59] <Paragon39> I thought that was the case. Sorry for jumping in tom3p didn't realise there was a confirmation taking place.
[16:21:51] <JT-Shop> tom3p: yea, you could look at that enter the time and have it count down if you liked
[16:22:44] <tom3p> Paragon39, theres been a lot of talk about that recently, I'd like to try to get a pair (seperate boxes)to interoperate (using M62...66) like for handing parts off
[16:22:53] <tom3p> and np on the discussion thread
[16:23:49] <tom3p> JT-Shop, i gotta read how that was calculated, i dont doubt it, just surprised it was there
[16:24:27] <SWPadnos> tom3p, I think the estimate is a simple "multiply the distances by the programmed feedrates" thing
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[16:24:58] <tom3p> distance of an arc tho
[16:25:00] <SWPadnos> no accel or other factors are taken into account (and of course, in real life you have things like feed override and the like to deal with)
[16:25:15] <tom3p> i know how to calc it but running the entire program thru it...
[16:25:28] <SWPadnos> well, the preview runs the whole program ...
[16:25:46] <tom3p> yeh this emc2 thing is fast ;)
[16:26:13] <SWPadnos> ok, back to accounting (ugh)
[16:26:43] <tom3p> yeh back to how M64...66 work ( just studying now ) and what M69 is
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[16:30:55] <bzzzz> god, i hope my new cm3 works with openocd
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[16:52:24] <JT-Shop> tom3p: I have to assume it grabs the max velocity from the ini or something to calculate the rapids so if that is the case then the accel could be grabbed too...
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[16:53:23] <tom3p> JT-Shop, in the code now, it seems to read the G0 & G1 , amd testing a pure G2 code to see if its true
[16:53:56] <tom3p> ~/emc2-dev/bin/axis is the src file
[16:59:02] <psha> tom3p: it's not src file :)
[16:59:33] <psha> src file is in $EMC_HOME/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis
[17:02:50] <tom3p> psha looks like src to me "g0 = sum(dist(l[1][:3], l[2][:3]) for l in o.canon.traverse)" but i dunno much
[17:03:23] <tom3p> or some meaning of the word src i dont quite get
[17:04:02] <tom3p> and it does account for g2 g3 distance traveled
[17:04:12] <fragalot> urgh.
[17:04:38] <fragalot> milling fine contours out of .5mm brass sheet is probably the most nasty material i've ever worked with sofar.
[17:04:51] <fragalot> so bloody hard >.<
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[17:05:42] <JT-Shop> tom3p: looks like it starts about line 1667 in axis.py
[17:05:44] <fragalot> .1mm pass, 4mm/min and the bloody bits still snap
[17:06:07] <tom3p> JT-Shop, yep thats the quoted line
[17:06:10] <tom3p> thx
[17:06:10] <JT-Shop> not enough rpm?
[17:06:17] <fragalot> JT-Shop: 28k
[17:06:27] <fragalot> can't go higher (or lower :P)
[17:06:34] <JT-Shop> gummy material?
[17:07:08] <fragalot> has to be (too fine to really see)
[17:07:52] <JT-Shop> you can see it will be stuck in the flutes
[17:07:54] <tom3p> re: mileage markers in gcode : i think.. the nested looping nature of emc2 gcode syats the markers will be very difficult to place, and in 'std' long gcode files (what posts put out ) not too difficult
[17:08:00] <fragalot> JT-Shop: there are no flutes :P
[17:08:15] <JT-Shop> heh
[17:08:22] <fragalot> it's an engraving bit (don't have end mills fine enough)à
[17:08:46] <fragalot> damn you neighbours' kid!
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[17:08:53] <JT-Shop> ah, a half one?
[17:08:57] <fragalot> he keeps snapping twigs in 2 and I keep thinking it's my bit :P
[17:08:58] <fragalot> JT-Shop: yes
[17:09:42] <JT-Shop> flood coolant?
[17:09:47] <fragalot> dunhas sadly
[17:10:07] <fragalot> don't know if i should use cutting oil on brass or something else :/
[17:10:18] <atom1> yes
[17:10:25] * fragalot tries
[17:10:54] <atom1> brass usually machines nice
[17:11:52] <atom1> you might try conventional over climb once too
[17:11:57] <anonimasu> tom3p: are you there?
[17:12:00] <atom1> see if it's grabbing the cutters
[17:12:37] <anonimasu> tom3p: question about heidenhain, got any idea what module to use to transfer data betweeen user programs and the plc?
[17:13:40] <fragalot> atom1: define "conventional over climb" ?
[17:14:00] * anonimasu is hacking tool lenght probing
[17:14:15] <fragalot> atom1: and yeah - i've machined 3mm brass pretty easilly
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[17:14:35] <fragalot> so this is either somekind of alloy or it's not actually brass >.>
[17:14:40] <JT-Shop> conventional the flute comes from the back side and climb the flute comes from the front side of the direction of travel
[17:15:21] <JT-Shop> climb is better on CNC and conventional is better on loose manual mills
[17:15:29] <atom1> i just thought it might not grab as much with conventional
[17:15:52] <atom1> i always try to climb cut if possible
[17:15:58] <atom1> in metal anyway
[17:16:07] <JT-Shop> actually when milling with climb there is less wear on the tool edge as you don't scrape as much when cutting
[17:16:10] <fragalot> ah - I tried both
[17:16:24] <IchGuckLive> ballscrews make both
[17:16:41] <IchGuckLive> chees router only climb
[17:16:48] <fragalot> but this doesn't make any difference really
[17:17:12] <fragalot> since i'm just contouring a shape out on a plate
[17:17:20] <atom1> yeah
[17:17:26] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:17:29] <fragalot> :P
[17:17:33] <atom1> :O
[17:17:51] <IchGuckLive> on heekscnc its just a click to change the direktion
[17:18:23] <fragalot> well the cutting oil sure made a difference
[17:19:33] <IchGuckLive> on the tool or on the part
[17:19:38] <IchGuckLive> O.o
[17:19:41] <atom1> both i presume
[17:20:37] <fragalot> It's like a little tornado of oil
[17:20:40] <fragalot> :P
[17:20:49] <fragalot> IchGuckLive: both
[17:21:16] <fragalot> managed to get it up to F26 too now
[17:21:32] <IchGuckLive> tornado we had today on the highay A19 with 10 Deth
[17:25:02] <Paragon39> I noticed when moving decreasing the % override it reduced the speed of the spindle motor is there a way to disable this feature so it only decreases the steppers?
[17:26:53] <Paragon39> When I say % override I am referring to the % overide bar in EMC2.
[17:26:57] <tom3p> fragalot, is the tool submerged in oil ( the tornado reference... like a whirlpool?)
[17:27:50] <IchGuckLive> Paragon39: there are 2 bars
[17:27:52] <fragalot> minimally
[17:28:02] <fragalot> the oil drags up a bit too & sprays off like a little tornado
[17:28:11] <fragalot> making a big mess of everything
[17:28:15] <IchGuckLive> Paragon39: the lower one for the steppers
[17:28:42] <fragalot> IchGuckLive: the lower one is the spindle override
[17:28:52] <IchGuckLive> fragalot: nice to clean up 1
[17:29:13] <fragalot> hey - if it cuts well...
[17:29:22] <fragalot> if it does I need to make 60 of these things >.<
[17:29:43] <fragalot> so i'd better get a better bit if this first one works out well so I can go a bit faster...
[17:30:37] <IchGuckLive> money waste go with the old
[17:31:00] <fragalot> IchGuckLive: at the moment it's taking about an hour for one......
[17:31:37] <fragalot> I don't mind paying for a decent bit if it means I can do the same in 5 minutes or less
[17:31:49] <Paragon39> IchGuckLive: I just noticed when loading up EMC2 the spindle % override, but it then disappears from the GUI leaving 3 bars feed overide, jog speed and max velocity.
[17:31:49] <IchGuckLive> change the G-code to a better performance
[17:32:03] <fragalot> I mean it's just a .5mm sheet, it should cut like butter
[17:32:09] <fragalot> IchGuckLive: the G-code is good...
[17:32:16] <fragalot> it's just 2 circles and 2 squares lol
[17:32:16] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:32:40] <IchGuckLive> 1houre increase the F
[17:32:48] <fragalot> then my bit snaps
[17:33:09] <IchGuckLive> mill faster with more Depth passes
[17:33:14] <anonimasu> I have a lingering suspicion that runout snaps small carbide bits because of uneven loading...
[17:33:21] <anonimasu> beacuse they are more brittle then hss
[17:33:43] <fragalot> anonimasu: likely
[17:33:55] <fragalot> hence the proposed investment in a decent hss bit
[17:34:09] <tom3p> ugh, carbide no like hammering ( runout ) likes constant pressure
[17:34:17] <IchGuckLive> Diamant cutters are most effective
[17:34:34] <IchGuckLive> 2.5mm at 1.9Euro
[17:34:48] <fragalot> 2.5mm is to big
[17:34:59] <IchGuckLive> oh bad
[17:35:06] <fragalot> i'm milling it with a 1mm 2 spiral end mill at the moment
[17:35:20] <fragalot> which is just on the verge of beeing too large
[17:35:21] <IchGuckLive> PCB engraving
[17:35:44] <fragalot> PCB engraving is easy
[17:36:02] <IchGuckLive> i use 0,6mm for that
[17:36:25] <fragalot> I use .1mm, .2 or .3 depending on...
[17:36:35] <fragalot> and 1mm to cut the countour
[17:36:42] <IchGuckLive> agree
[17:37:11] <IchGuckLive> but the 30deg engraver is on 8eur and the 0,6 is only 1,2
[17:37:15] <fragalot> can't mill out TQFP-144 footprints with .6mm
[17:37:22] <fragalot> IchGuckLive: my bits are 1 euro each..
[17:37:30] <fragalot> and for PCBs they work brilliantly
[17:37:46] <IchGuckLive> available in europ ?
[17:37:49] <fragalot> ebay
[17:38:05] <IchGuckLive> witch seller ß
[17:38:25] <fragalot> hold on
[17:39:11] <fragalot> supermario-cb
[17:39:19] <fragalot> IchGuckLive: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/SUPERWORKSHOP-BITBITWORLD?_rdc=1
[17:41:09] <IchGuckLive> delivery in ? Days
[17:41:23] <IchGuckLive> up to 50Days somtimes
[17:42:44] <fragalot> forgot
[17:43:11] <fragalot> I think it took about 2 weeks for me
[17:47:37] <IchGuckLive> i will test the 30Deg 0,2mm
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[17:48:01] <IchGuckLive> 5 for 8.5Eur
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[17:52:11] <IchGuckLive> by ned to go
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[19:46:17] <Connor> okay, so, question, what does everyone do with the extra wire on the stepper motors? My motors came with the wires loose, and not in insulation.. I'm using 4 conductor stranded alarm wire for hookup.. I have it in a drag chain, but, don't like the idea of the loose wires being in it, and my splice being exposed..
[19:49:34] <archivist> I heat shrink a sleeve to insulate and protect
[19:51:21] <Connor> How much wire do you use from the motor vs the new wire ?
[19:51:28] <Jymmm> split-loom tubing, spiral wrap, and/or shrink wrap.
[19:51:35] <Jymmm> like I said last night
[19:51:50] <Connor> I didn't see anything last night.. went to bed before I got a response.
[19:54:35] <tom3p> throw the xtra wire up in the air ( works great for a short time old cheech chong joke ;) really, cap it off any way you like, shrink tube or wire nut or butt splice or electricians tape.
[19:58:57] <mrsunshine> has anyone made themselfs high accuracy grinding machines? ... is it possible to cnc something like that to make special profiles? :)
[20:03:00] <tom3p> cnc grinder or cnc wheel dresser? its been a long time but there was interest in cnc grinding with emc2 ( may have been years now )
[20:03:33] <tom3p> and more recently, emc2 control of grinding for optics
[20:03:41] <tom3p> you'd have to search the logs
[20:08:27] <mrsunshine> tom3p, well im thinking something like having a small ball grinder or something to make rails for ball bearing stuff and so =)
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[20:20:27] <tom3p> ball bearing? thats uber precision, always was impressed by how cheap and how precise bearings are
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[20:30:21] <archivist> the secret is not making balls with cnc, its the measuring,grading and putting them back in the polishing/grinding machine
[20:35:21] <tom3p> agreed
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[20:56:08] <anonimasu> how much would some of you charge to make this kind of part with the tolerances -0.00mm +0.10mm http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/testpart.png
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[21:00:59] <anonimasu> in aluminium or acetal(maybe both)
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[21:02:32] <DaViruz> size?
[21:02:43] <anonimasu> 160mm x 30
[21:02:45] <anonimasu> mm
[21:03:59] <anonimasu> x15mm
[21:05:39] <jthornton> looks like you need a 5 axis machine to make that
[21:06:03] <anonimasu> it's a 4 axis past
[21:06:06] <anonimasu> part...
[21:06:26] <anonimasu> or 3 with flipping it around, letters have a 10 deg draft ange around
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[21:14:36] <DaViruz> with +0.1mm tolerance i get the impression that it can be done on a 3 axis
[21:14:59] <DaViruz> if the undercut on the text is below 0.1mm..
[21:15:27] <anonimasu> and text is not dimension critical
[21:15:44] <DaViruz> the short edges of the platau will probably be problematic too
[21:16:02] <anonimasu> i have no problem making it, just wondering :)
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[21:17:28] <DaViruz> i would have (problems making it)
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[21:21:22] <anonimasu> I have no idea what a shop would take to make that kind of part...
[21:22:11] <Farthen> did you do it for testing and want to sell it? :-P
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[21:23:18] <anonimasu> -_- no, im wondering how much a part like this goes for since im trying to figure out how much to charge
[21:24:31] <anonimasu> :)
[21:25:00] <anonimasu> since I really have no clue about how much mold insets and stuff cost to make
[21:27:16] <L84Supper> the quantity ordered affects the price
[21:27:31] <DaViruz> 4-500SEK /hour
[21:27:34] <anonimasu> let's say a run of 1-3 parts at a time random spacing
[21:27:49] <DaViruz> is what a friend of mine with a machine shop charges
[21:27:52] <anonimasu> of the runs
[21:30:46] <L84Supper> a few $K for setup and headaches + $250 ea
[21:32:05] <fragalot> DaViruz: still have to factor in tooling costs, material costs, setup time, time taken per part, number of parts, time taken to replace parts, time taken replacing worn tools...
[21:32:24] <fragalot> though not so much in small runs like that
[21:32:24] <fragalot> :P
[21:32:30] <anonimasu> with a 3 week deadline for the first run of parts
[21:32:57] <anonimasu> to sort out fixturing and stuff
[21:33:01] <DaViruz> fragalot: obviously
[21:33:23] <fragalot> anonimasu: I'd see how much time it would take to make everything to clamp it down with for a start
[21:33:51] <anonimasu> that should be about 2 hours I think..
[21:34:37] <fragalot> add in a margin, add parts, your setup time, tooling costs and runtime then
[21:34:47] <fragalot> add a profit margin, and you've got a rough price estimate
[21:35:38] <anonimasu> and the parts should take like 1 hour to cut..
[21:35:44] <anonimasu> maximum
[21:37:43] <L84Supper> http://www.designworldonline.com/articles/7046/4/Plastic-Bearings-and-Linear-Guides-Put-the-Moves-on-MRI-guided-Robot.aspx
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[22:22:48] <Eik0> anonimasu: +reminder that is for me = lower price :)
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[22:23:50] <anonimasu> for your boss :)
[22:24:02] <anonimasu> for you i'd make them for free ^_^
[22:24:13] <Eik0> sure thing ;)
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[23:01:08] <atom1> anonimasu what's up?
[23:01:19] <atom1> you gettin your mesa boards figured out?
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[23:39:23] <anonimasu> atom1: yeah slowly, but it seems the pinout from my old firmware is not the same as with the new one
[23:39:27] <anonimasu> that's why it dosent match
[23:39:40] <anonimasu> otherwise I'd all up and running since a week
[23:39:44] <anonimasu> (not the lathe tho)
[23:39:49] <anonimasu> the cutting machine at work for now
[23:39:50] <atom1> which firmware?
[23:40:20] <anonimasu> the one for the 7i43
[23:40:35] <anonimasu> the bitfile that emc loads into the board
[23:40:37] <atom1> you loaded a different config?
[23:40:53] <anonimasu> I got one from pcw because the included one wouldnt load onto my boards
[23:41:18] <atom1> is it better to use one from emc or download from mesa site?
[23:41:32] <anonimasu> the emc one i guess is the right one to use
[23:41:45] <anonimasu> but as to why the pins are different i have no clue about
[23:41:45] <atom1> i'd think they should be the same
[23:42:08] <anonimasu> bbl, gonna head to bed soon gotta get the stuff running tomorrow
[23:42:16] <atom1> ok
[23:42:23] <atom1> i'm still contemplating what to get
[23:42:27] <anonimasu> yeah, but there was something special that the emc one didnt work for my boards
[23:42:34] <atom1> haven't had much time to think about it really
[23:42:47] <anonimasu> I'd take the bigger boards(more headers) so you can expand as needed...
[23:42:47] <atom1> why did you get the daughter boards?
[23:43:06] <atom1> i'm thinking the 7I43
[23:43:29] <atom1> but if i want a jog wheel i'll have to add some stuff i think