#emc | Logs for 2011-04-06

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[01:00:11] <tom3p> aggrav8d is this true? " appears to return to origin after cut (i just run g0 x0 y0 z.1)" AND repeatable? (many times )?
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[01:34:34] <tom3p_> aggrav8d, i'd guess you really dont return to 0,0,0 and need better drive configuration.
[01:34:36] <tom3p_> if you do return to 000 then you got a special program that doesnt execute as you'd expect, but does that unexpected path very repeatedly
[01:34:44] <tom3p_> its the former tho isnt it?
[01:36:22] <tom3p_> without good measuring tools you could drill a hole in some scrap, run your program, then go back to the drilled hole and 'see' if it was the same position
[01:36:43] <tom3p_> not very accurate but practical
[01:36:48] <tom3p_> htt
[01:36:51] <tom3p_> hth
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[02:01:29] <ries> aggrav8d: It's hard to check if you don't have the equipment, but you can see if you have a proper up (5V) and a proper down voltage on your stepper drivers. And from your documentation see if you send teh step and direction pulses properly with correct timing
[02:02:12] <jdhNC> I thought it worked fine with a sharpie
[02:16:38] <Jymmm> drill a hole, cover it with tape, drill the same hole, if the hole in the tape isn't round, it's not in the exact same position.
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[02:20:31] <aggrav8d> i do have proper voltage.
[02:21:30] <aggrav8d> jymmm - i'm losing steps or something so i doubt I'll get the same values twice. I do know I can return to origin without trouble but while cutting the machine gets...stupid.
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[02:26:21] <SWPadnos> if you are losing steps, then a command to go to 0,0,0 will not return to 0,0,0
[02:26:28] <SWPadnos> unless you have (and use) feedback
[02:26:55] <jdhNC> feedback is for rich people
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[02:28:08] <aggrav8d> i don't have feedback. I don't even have home & limit switches.
[02:29:02] <SWPadnos> in that case, if the machine goes back to 0,0,0 when commanded (with G0/G1/G2/G3), then lost steps aren't likely to be the problem
[02:29:30] <aggrav8d> all i know for certain is that without cutting i can travel around the table and back and return to origin. maybe I should test that again, just to be sure.
[02:29:36] <SWPadnos> unless you always lose the same number of steps in each direction, which is a remote possibility
[02:29:56] <SWPadnos> good idea
[02:30:35] <aggrav8d> a circle pattern should be enough, yes?
[02:32:57] <SWPadnos> no, not necessarily
[02:33:19] <SWPadnos> you should do some semi-random MDI moves, and then a return to 0,0,0
[02:33:39] <SWPadnos> the trouble is that you may have e.g. an error that happens for one step every reversal
[02:33:47] <aggrav8d> i have a pattern of some text and a golden section.
[02:34:33] <SWPadnos> which means your parts will be wrong, but you will still return to 0, since you're likely to have the same number of lost steps in each direction if you just jog around
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[02:34:42] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:35:11] <aggrav8d> so... wait. if i use the complex drawing i was just talking about... i won't prove anything?
[02:35:25] <SWPadnos> dunno
[02:35:37] <SWPadnos> if you don't get back to 0,0,0, then it shows that you are losing steps
[02:35:46] <SWPadnos> if you do, then it's indeterminate :)
[02:35:52] <aggrav8d> ah, it has a potential for a false positive.
[02:36:18] <aggrav8d> (positive in this case meaning no problemo)
[02:36:29] <SWPadnos> right
[02:36:49] <aggrav8d> well... i'll try it after dinner and see. back in an hour or so.
[02:37:30] <SWPadnos> ok. I'll be in bed. good luck with it
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[06:17:47] <bzzzz> wow
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[10:09:26] <anonimasu> anyone here?
[10:09:32] <anonimasu> that knows a bit about hte mesa boards?
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[11:05:00] <Eik0> ok
[11:05:03] <Eik0> oops
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[12:54:00] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/127206
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[13:15:53] <Jymmm> Looks like a case of plagiarism to me =)
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[15:20:37] <paragon36> Hello All, I am attempting to add a second parallel port and have followed the following but am having difficulties. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/examples_pci_parallel_port.html insmod failed. returned -1 ?
[15:23:12] <bill_> afaik if you have a first parallel port already , the kernel module would already be inserted.
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[15:24:04] <JT-Shop> did you try using the port index http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui_image-to-gcode.html
[15:25:38] <jdhNC> right url?
[15:25:51] <JT-Shop> no
[15:25:52] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:26:19] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_parallel_port.html#r1_1_1
[15:26:29] <JT-Shop> try that one :)
[15:26:57] <paragon36> config string '0x0378 0xd480'
[15:26:58] <paragon36> [14250.608307] PARPORT: ERROR: port parport0 claim failed
[15:27:15] <paragon36> it's showing as paraport0 and not 1
[15:27:37] <aggrav8d> morning!
[15:28:17] <JT-Shop> did you use "0xnn 0xnn" the dbl quotes
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[15:28:48] <paragon36> JT-Shop, thanks for the link! Yes used ""
[15:29:26] <paragon36> how do you tell if it should be 0x278 or 0x0378?
[15:29:33] <JT-Shop> try using the port index cfg="0 1"
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[15:30:04] <JT-Shop> I just use to guess till port index came available
[15:30:45] <paragon36> where do I set the port index? addf parport.1.read base-thread 1 is the one on the end?
[15:31:23] <JT-Shop> loadrt hal_parport cfg="0 1 2" instead of loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x278 0x378 in 0x20A0 out"
[15:31:50] <paragon36> Oh OK I'll try that...
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[15:40:04] <paragon36> ok I've managed to load paraport1 with loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x278 0xd480" but how do I also load 0x378?
[15:40:13] <paragon36> for paraport0?
[15:40:43] <JT-Shop> the port index didn't work?
[15:41:07] <paragon36> No it didn't.
[15:41:50] * JT-Shop wonders why
[15:44:10] <paragon36> loadrt hal_parport cfg="0 1 3" Error= config string '0 1 3' [15313.204448] PARPORT: ERROR: port parport0 claim failed
[15:44:54] <JT-Shop> you only have two right?
[15:45:26] <paragon36> yes I tried it with "0 1" also failed.
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[15:45:53] <JT-Shop> does just 0 by it self work?
[15:46:14] <JT-Shop> ie, linux might not recognize the second port
[15:47:08] <paragon36> No 0 does not work on it's own (Failed to claim paraport0) lspci -v shows the card.
[15:47:15] <aggrav8d> have you tried using a multimeter to test the port? i mean, can you prove it's mechanically sound before you tinker with software?
[15:48:00] <JT-Shop> so 0x278 is one and 0x378 is the other one what is 0xd480?
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[15:51:28] <paragon36> Mmmm the a good point.. the lspci -v shows d480,d400,d080,d00,cc00,c880 the 0x278 I just tried and it did not error cant seem to see 0x278 in the lspci output though!
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[15:52:03] <JT-Shop> try each one, one at a time till you find the right one
[15:52:13] <pcw_home> 0x278 is a non PCI port so will no show up with lsPCI
[15:52:20] <pcw_home> not
[15:53:14] <JT-Shop> YEA! Peter is here :)
[15:53:32] <paragon36> Ok why does 0x378 show as port0 and 0x278 as port1 I only have one physical paraport on the motherboard.
[15:54:39] <pcw_home> maybe theres a 2 port chip, you can probably futz with MB port locations in the BIOS setup
[15:55:47] <paragon36> Oh I see similar to having to serial ports but only one header to the outside world.
[15:56:05] <paragon36> Ok trying the list of ports I mentioned earlier...
[15:57:50] <aggrav8d> so... forgive me, I don't know the etiquette in this chan. should I wait for paragon's challenge to be fixed before I ask my series of questions?
[15:58:43] <paragon36> aggrav8d, Feel free to go ahead... from my account :-)
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[16:01:49] <JT-Shop> its more fun to have several conservations at once
[16:01:53] <aggrav8d> so... yesterday I was getting some AMAZING help from the experts here. I made some proper clamps for my stock, I tightened every part of the machine to get rid of previously-undetected backlash, and I ran some tests.
[16:02:16] <aggrav8d> the last one I ran was a comlicated drawing that returned to origin, only to find it was off by about 1mm on x and y.
[16:02:35] <aggrav8d> also, something seems to have come loose in my wiring because now the z only goes up, even when told to go down.
[16:02:57] <aggrav8d> so immagonna fix that z problem, but I don't know what to do about the rest.
[16:03:10] <JT-Shop> I would guess your direction pin is not getting a signal
[16:03:13] <aggrav8d> when I tell the machine to cut diagonals & arcs it wobbles all over.
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[16:03:29] <aggrav8d> jt - it's happened once before on Z. it's my shitty wiring job.
[16:03:32] <mikeggg> shore it up with some angle iron
[16:04:01] <aggrav8d> i got these plugs that are just garbage, they even have metal casings. I'm going to switch to molex ASAP.
[16:04:38] <aggrav8d> mikeggg - ??
[16:04:49] <aggrav8d> i sense you are making a joke but I don't get it.
[16:04:53] <aggrav8d> kind of a noob.
[16:05:12] <mikeggg> it sounds like you have a lot of mechanical slop in your machine
[16:05:20] <mikeggg> yes, sort of a joke
[16:05:42] <aggrav8d> i really don't. i can lean on X and Y gantries and they don't move.
[16:05:44] <mikeggg> angle iron is generally cheap and easy to come by
[16:05:48] <mikeggg> oh
[16:05:48] <JT-Shop> yea, so the less side load on your spindle the better your cuts will be with a sloppy machine
[16:05:51] <mikeggg> well, nm
[16:06:40] <aggrav8d> if i lean on the spindle it flexes a little. I think that's limitations of the wooden frame and the length of the z carriage.
[16:07:01] <JT-Shop> as for loosing steps after you tightened up the machine it may well take more force to move so your acceleration and top speed might be too high now
[16:08:58] <paragon36> still having issues but need to reboot. Thanks
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[16:11:25] <aggrav8d> jt - i kept 'em real low just in case.
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[16:15:37] <anonimasu> usually the remedy is to take light cuts fast, but if your machine is not stable it dosent work either
[16:15:46] <anonimasu> as machine dynamics comes into play
[16:17:24] <JT-Shop> aggrav8d: you might also have some spots that are tighter than others without precision rails so when you hit a tight spot even low acceleration is not enough
[16:25:11] * JT-Shop goes inside to try and find a leftover half of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich from yesterday
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[16:56:20] <aggrav8d> JT-Shop - yeah, i think i know of one such spot already.
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[17:04:06] <JT-Shop> this seems to be a good chart for folks that thread on this side of the lake http://www.shender4.com/thread_chart.htm
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[18:15:56] <Paragon39> JT-Shop: Thought I'd let you know I've managed to get the second paraport running :-)
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[18:39:47] <Paragon39> Optocoupler output pull-up or pull-down?
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[18:40:13] * jdhNC votes... down.
[18:40:35] * archivist votes up
[18:40:54] <Paragon39> For what reasons either way?
[18:41:11] <archivist> depends what you are coupling too
[18:41:12] <Paragon39> 50/50 at the moment ;-)
[18:41:17] * Jymmm votes middle!
[18:41:27] <Paragon39> stepper drive
[18:41:43] <archivist> no the output is it open collector etc
[18:42:12] <archivist> and the input is ot already connected to either gnd or +ve
[18:43:55] <Paragon39> well the output pin from the para port is connected to A and gnd is connected to K
[18:44:07] <Paragon39> of the diode.
[18:47:00] <Paragon39> But am not sure if this is correct. I am also not sure how to connect output. Currently I connected the +5 to E and input to stepper drive to C it only works in one direction unless I have a logic probe touching one of the opto outputs.
[18:47:54] <Paragon39> Because the dir pin is always on the high side.
[18:48:11] <archivist> the output transistor needs a pull up too
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[18:50:09] <Paragon39> OK but do I have the +5v connected to the correct output pin? Most of the examples I have seen it is connected to the Colector not the Emmitter?
[18:51:01] <archivist> you can do it either way, it depends on requirements
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[18:52:09] <archivist> does the stepper drive have an internal pull up or not, internal opto or not...
[18:52:33] <archivist> does it source or sink current
[18:52:49] <Paragon39> archivist: What requirements would be for one way or the other? No the drive has no opto.
[18:53:13] <archivist> I cannot know without reading your drive manual
[18:54:36] <Paragon39> No problem I add the resistor and see how that go's... Thanks Chaps!
[18:55:29] <archivist> read the manual for the input it becomes obvious
[18:56:59] <Paragon39> archivist: That's the thing I don't have a manual. The drives were constructed in 1988 :-0
[18:57:17] <jdhNC> at least you don't have old ones.
[18:57:22] <Paragon39> They are Parker Digiplan SD2 cards
[18:57:25] <Paragon39> lol
[18:57:41] <Paragon39> L297 based.
[18:57:53] <jdhNC> Paragon: you can download the Parker PK2 manual, same driver in a different case
[18:58:00] <Paragon39> I think they are sinked...
[18:58:45] <Paragon39> PK2! Oh OK Thanks for that jdhNC :-
[18:58:47] <jdhNC> http://www.parkermotion.com/manuals/PK2.pdf
[18:59:27] <Paragon39> jdhNC: :-) looking at the manual now!
[19:00:30] <archivist> Paragon39, I use a uln2003 iirc to drive mine as they pull up to 12v iirc
[19:02:46] krushia_ is now known as krushia
[19:03:38] <archivist> dirn is internally pulled up
[19:04:53] <archivist> in fact all ar internally pulled up to 12 v so opto collector out to input and opto emitter to gnd
[19:06:12] <archivist> fig 2.5 page 20 of the pdf
[19:12:02] <jdhNC> http://www.denfordata.com/bb/files/sd2_179.pdf
[19:12:07] <jdhNC> a real sd2 manual
[19:12:42] <jdhNC> not a great drive anyway... the PK drives have power supplies though
[19:21:51] <Paragon39> Sorry for not replying sooner I switching sources on my monitor between Linux and WinXP
[19:23:51] <Paragon39> Thanks Guys... I've just come back to report it's now working like a charm as archivist just mentioned colector to out emitter to gnd! I had vcc going to the emitter ;-)
[19:25:34] <jdhNC> I have a bunch of PK drives, but got too much resonance for them to work for me.
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[19:27:54] <Paragon39> jdhNC: Not the best drives to todays standards what with micro stepping etc. I had three of these laying around after retro fitting my denford starmill to use EMC with newer motors. I am currently in the process of retro fitting my Denford Starturn to EMC and decided to use these drives for now. Will eventually upgrade to a later drive when budgets permit.
[19:28:54] <Paragon39> Dinner calling ... back soon!
[19:32:42] <archivist> one of my SD2 drives failed soon after I got the starturn, one of the chips failed with old age probably, replaced and its ok now
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[19:38:59] <jdhNC> there are some for sale on eBay
[19:42:11] <archivist> I just get the needed chips and fix
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[20:00:41] <aggrav8d> pfff... so i got some cable organizers to clean up all the wiring between the steppers and the drivers. just on a lark i recheck the connections. turns out at least three +5v leads from the controller were loose.
[20:00:55] <aggrav8d> haven't run the tests again, still have to supplement my income with my day job.
[20:04:43] <jdhNC> someone once offered to pay me for somethign I made for them, but I declined.
[20:05:06] <aggrav8d> ...why?
[20:05:25] <aggrav8d> nm, i think we are at different philosophical ends.
[20:05:40] <jdhNC> I made it out of scrap material and I took a month or two longer than needed.
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[20:15:14] <JT-Shop> if someone helps or wants to learn how to run a machine to make a part it is no charge, if they just want and leave then they get commercial rates
[20:17:59] <atom1> ile be over
[20:20:19] <Jymmmm> It's a riding lawnmower, does it really need power steering?! Eeeeesh
[20:20:34] <JT-Shop> come on down
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[20:49:30] <toastydeath> does anyone know much about reprap
[20:49:38] <toastydeath> their wiki seems to be rather sparse
[20:50:13] <bill20r3> I do.
[20:50:22] <bill20r3> I rep some rap like crazytown.
[20:50:32] <toastydeath> how do you generate your models?
[20:50:55] <bill20r3> STL files, with your cad of choice. OpenSCAD is all the rage.
[20:51:06] <toastydeath> are you also stuck with the reprap design?
[20:51:20] <toastydeath> or can you build a machine of any general description
[20:51:24] <bill20r3> you mean the hardware design? no, you can do whatever. (like I did)
[20:51:48] <bill20r3> such a machine is referred to as a "RepStrap" for "reprap bootstrap"
[20:51:53] <toastydeath> hm
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[20:52:31] <toastydeath> they mentioned other tools?
[20:52:32] <bill20r3> no reason to go with the reprap design, really. It's made with the design-goal of being replicating, so if you dont care about that, you can just use a conventional cartesian-whatever design.
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[20:53:21] <bill20r3> if you mean other tool-heads, they're mostly theoretical as yet. There's som epen-holders, and a frosting-dispenser, but nothing really compelling.
[20:53:31] <toastydeath> the main head seems to be fairly good for detail work - is it possible to use a high volume head to fill in a shell made by the main head?
[20:53:33] <toastydeath> hm
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[20:54:26] <toastydeath> one of the interesting things about 3d printing, to me, is the possibility of lost wax casting
[20:55:15] <bill20r3> supposedly you can do lost-plastic casting, with PLA.
[20:55:21] <toastydeath> but the current reprap speed seems to be way too slow
[20:55:25] <toastydeath> to have any strong application for it
[20:55:26] <bill20r3> but the detail isn't there for things like jewelry.
[20:55:35] <bill20r3> what size stuff to you want to cast?
[20:55:46] <toastydeath> I meant more for actual parts, like say you wanted to prototype some engine pistons
[20:56:18] <bill20r3> oh, sure. you could do that. but you'd have to print 6 of them,. (or however many you wanted to make)
[20:56:29] <toastydeath> yeah, that's the problem - the print speed is far too slow
[20:56:29] <bill20r3> keep in mind that parts can be made mostly hollow.
[20:56:33] <toastydeath> hm
[20:56:37] <bill20r3> (and usually are)
[20:56:49] <toastydeath> that's why i was curious about a fill/bulk deposition head
[20:57:05] <toastydeath> that way you make your shell and then have a fast/high volume head
[20:57:19] <bill20r3> there isn't a head, but you can print parts with an open top, and then pour in epoxy.
[20:57:59] <bill20r3> that isn't commonly done, but it's tested & works ok.
[20:58:53] <toastydeath> what do you make with yours?
[20:59:00] <bill20r3> btw, my mostly-reprap blog is at http://protovision.com/ , there's a pic of my machine somewhere in there.
[20:59:40] <bill20r3> nothing important, just doodads & clutter. I'm just interested in it as a hobby, there's no end goal for me.
[21:00:23] <bill20r3> if you just want parts made, and are uninterested in the process, run away.
[21:00:31] <bill20r3> because it's too time consuming to do if it bores you.
[21:01:09] <mikeggg> neato
[21:01:22] <mikeggg> is that the standard reprap head?
[21:01:38] <mikeggg> what is your nozzle diameter?
[21:02:14] <bill20r3> mine's 0.35, that's a pretty standard head.
[21:02:46] <mikeggg> .35mm ?
[21:04:35] <bill20r3> yeah, everything's in mm for reprap stuff, since it originated in England.
[21:05:50] <toastydeath> how do you generate the toolpaths, what language is it in?
[21:06:36] <bill20r3> a python program called Skeinforge.
[21:06:59] <bill20r3> it's got a lot of tuning parameters, and the code is dense, but it works well, once you master it.
[21:07:42] <bill20r3> if you can find a local to help you learn it, it'd go a lot faster. it was written by a non-native english speaker, so the config options have weird names like "Splodge" and such.
[21:08:45] <toastydeath> hm
[21:08:58] <toastydeath> I suppose it can't handle 5 axis toolpaths
[21:09:23] <bill20r3> nope.
[21:09:33] <mikeggg> that would get complicated
[21:09:41] <mikeggg> I expect
[21:09:45] <bill20r3> can anything that's <$10k handle 5-axis?
[21:09:54] <toastydeath> APT did, back in the day
[21:10:37] <bill20r3> is that the CAM-in-Lisp system?
[21:10:44] <bill20r3> (or somesuch..)
[21:11:12] <toastydeath> no, it was a crazy compiled language
[21:11:24] <toastydeath> that handled lofting and such back in the early days of NC
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[21:14:57] <toastydeath> it was a set of geometric objects that you related into paths, then you applied tools to those paths
[21:15:08] <toastydeath> like "point a, b, c;"
[21:15:13] <toastydeath> "a = (1,4)" etc
[21:15:31] <toastydeath> that kind of thing
[21:16:21] <bill20r3> aka: magic.
[21:17:07] <bill20r3> a reprap with a rotary and a tilting-axis would let you do crazy overhangs.
[21:18:03] <andypugh> In other 3D-printing systems I have seen you just build a very flimsy supporting structure under overhands, then snap it off.
[21:18:13] <andypugh> (some use 2 different materials)
[21:18:46] <toastydeath> bill20r3, that's exactly what I was thinking
[21:18:47] <bill20r3> yeah, you can do that.
[21:19:10] <bill20r3> but using support material adds time, and sometimes it's a pain to remove cleanly.
[21:19:13] <toastydeath> because there have been other research projects I have seen that make use of a bladed head, where the extrusion happens in a channel
[21:19:28] <toastydeath> so that you can extrude directly on a wall
[21:19:35] <bill20r3> which isn't a huge drawback, most stuff doesn't use support material.
[21:19:35] <toastydeath> to create 90 degree overhands
[21:19:45] <toastydeath> *hangs
[21:20:07] <bill20r3> the overhangs are why you often see teardrop-shaped holes in stuff.
[21:21:00] <toastydeath> Also, if the table itself were multiaxis, it would be trivial to do overhands
[21:21:01] <toastydeath> *hangs
[21:21:15] <toastydeath> as the toolhead is always aligned with gravity
[21:21:58] <bill20r3> yep.
[21:22:00] <atom1> toastydeath talk to maxbots and microb
[21:22:05] <toastydeath> and since the toolhead has like, no forces
[21:22:17] <atom1> toastydeath talk to maxbots and microboter in #seattlerobotics about reprap
[21:22:23] <toastydeath> it's very simple to create a capstan driven machine, which is both more accurate than leadscrews
[21:22:28] <bill20r3> the table would have to be tilting, angling the toolhead wouldn't help much.
[21:22:44] <bill20r3> repraps are generally belt drive.
[21:22:45] <atom1> stupid paste buffer
[21:22:46] <toastydeath> bill2the table tilts in two axes, you have the A and B axis
[21:23:08] <toastydeath> it's essntially a trunnion table attached to the Y or X axis
[21:23:22] <atom1> they both build one i believe
[21:23:26] <bill20r3> capstan drive == belt drive ?
[21:23:43] <toastydeath> negatory, capstan is a type of friction drive
[21:24:05] <atom1> well known in casette tape drives or vcr
[21:24:28] <toastydeath> imagine you have a long, square bar, and then you mount a pair of rollers on it
[21:24:33] <toastydeath> one on the top, one on the bottom
[21:24:41] <toastydeath> with a lot of clamping force
[21:24:48] <toastydeath> you then mount your motor directly to these rollers
[21:25:18] <bill20r3> so something like rack&pinion, but without teeth?
[21:25:20] <toastydeath> right
[21:25:32] <bill20r3> what's the advantage over rack&pinion?
[21:25:50] <toastydeath> the accuracy can be made to be much, much, much more accurate
[21:25:56] <bill20r3> seems like it'd lose registration & drift position.
[21:26:02] <toastydeath> the LODTM uses capstan drives - it's the most accurate machine tool in the world.
[21:26:32] <bill20r3> so low-forces type machines?
[21:26:40] <toastydeath> for machine tools you definitely need some kind of linear scale, but for something like reprap, there's no real issue
[21:26:52] <toastydeath> right
[21:27:06] <andypugh> I think I am going to need a router for my garage.
[21:27:20] <andypugh> What a bizarre concept.
[21:27:40] <toastydeath> but the advantage of capstan stuff is that you can make it any shape
[21:27:48] <toastydeath> you can drive rotary axes just as simply as you can drive linear axes
[21:28:31] <bill20r3> Ah, I see.
[21:28:46] <toastydeath> and if you gave reprap a trunnion table, it's now possible to make turned shapes
[21:29:03] <toastydeath> by spinning the A axis at a low speed with the B axis at 90 degrees
[21:30:19] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-tXDEvAqg
[21:30:23] <toastydeath> that is a trunnion table
[21:31:42] <bill20r3> the combination of rotary-on-tilting == trunion?
[21:31:56] <bill20r3> or just the tilting axis is the trunion?
[21:32:04] <toastydeath> that specific configuration of stacked rotary tables is called a trunnion
[21:32:28] <bill20r3> gotcha.
[21:32:33] <toastydeath> that's not a "true" trunnion, because the table of the 2nd rotary is supposed to be as close as possible to the axis of the 1st table
[21:32:40] <bill20r3> <--- newbish, figuring it out as I go.
[21:32:50] <toastydeath> so that the centerline of the 2nd table does not move as the 1st axis rotates
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[21:34:14] <toastydeath> And then i guess you could have a heated knife tool to actually get you some good accuracyt
[21:34:18] <toastydeath> or a heated, ground cylinder
[21:34:30] <toastydeath> like a ball endmill tool, except just hot
[21:35:22] <bill20r3> you wouldn't want to apply heat to the part afterwards, heat management is tricky.
[21:36:05] <toastydeath> i was thinking sort of how you do grinding
[21:36:09] <toastydeath> not actually like
[21:36:11] <toastydeath> leaving a heat source there
[21:36:32] <toastydeath> you get a very hot thing, and move it very fast over the part
[21:36:54] <toastydeath> the idea being to melt just the outer layer and let it resolidify and cool
[21:36:57] <bill20r3> ahh, like ironing it.
[21:36:59] <toastydeath> yes
[21:37:24] <bill20r3> perhaps if you let it cool entirely first.
[21:37:31] <toastydeath> yeah, it would have to be cold
[21:37:56] <bill20r3> you can give ABS prints in a quick acetone dip.
[21:41:12] <toastydeath> hm, if only there were some way to make EMC do it, since literally every CAM tool does gcode, and emc handles multiaxis tools
[21:41:53] <bill20r3> there's a few emc-driven repraps.
[21:42:21] <toastydeath> oh shit.
[21:42:29] <toastydeath> Hm.
[21:43:33] <bill20r3> the only oddball part is hacking in temperature control.
[21:43:50] <toastydeath> I think the solution to that would be to handle it externally to emc?
[21:43:58] <bill20r3> but you could do that with a hardware PID controller too.
[21:43:59] <bill20r3> sure.
[21:44:47] <toastydeath> what's the temperature requirement
[21:45:51] <bill20r3> extrusion temps are in the 175C-230C range.
[21:46:50] <bill20r3> heating the print-bed is optional, but a good idea.
[21:47:29] <cpresser> when using pyhton with the hal-module.. how do i mark the component as ready?
[21:47:35] <toastydeath> what if your tool had recirculated oil at 230 c
[21:47:52] <toastydeath> that would be easy to do
[21:48:02] <cpresser> i am using .ready() , but when loading it with halcmd loadusr -W asd.py it does not become ready (the console blocks)
[21:48:15] <bill20r3> nichrome heater is the usual way.
[21:48:32] <toastydeath> yeah but then you get fluctuation
[21:48:38] <toastydeath> recirculated oil is nearly constant
[21:49:02] <bill20r3> true. I do get some temp swings, and you can tell where they effect the print quality
[21:49:45] <toastydeath> this way you heat the bath, and the heater watches the incoming oil and tries to heat that
[21:49:53] <bill20r3> hmm.
[21:49:57] <toastydeath> keeping the bulk of the oil at your main temp
[21:50:04] <toastydeath> the problem is 220 C is the breakdown for a lot of oils used
[21:50:09] <toastydeath> I am asking around for another fluid
[21:50:18] <bill20r3> the print-heads on most machines are moving around, although on mine it's static.
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[21:51:03] <bill20r3> PID temp control keeps temps within 1-2C of target, which is ok.
[21:53:35] <toastydeath> recirculated baths get should get .1C without much difficulty
[21:53:45] <toastydeath> but 1-2 sounds like it's pretty tight
[21:55:04] <toastydeath> looks like tributyl phosphate has more than enough range, nearly to 300C
[21:55:57] <toastydeath> and if you use oil, you could adjust the heat zone
[21:56:02] <toastydeath> you could even have a chill zone right before it
[21:56:19] <toastydeath> by having a piston with one side hot and the other side cold
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[22:17:09] <ries> aggrav8d: Could you solve your problem already?
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[23:17:19] <aggrav8d> ooh, my cables look so tidy now. let's hope there's no cross-talk. :T
[23:18:10] <elmo40> for...? steppers? servos? internal computer cables? 220V main lines? ;)
[23:18:12] <andypugh> aggrav8d: Did you find the problem?
[23:18:12] <aggrav8d> ries - still investigating. found a number of loose wires and invested in some cable management systems. Also resquared the machine. I think one of my x-axis shaft collars is not gripping the stepper right.
[23:18:46] <ries> aggrav8d: good good... I hear progress :)
[23:19:00] <andypugh> I found some nice end covers for steppers.
[23:19:17] <aggrav8d> er, collar. i can see that screw on the coupler closest to the stepper is a lot more "through" the coupler than its neighbor. i suspect it's been tightened too hard.
[23:19:32] <andypugh> http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/stepper-motor-covers-c-138.html
[23:19:54] <aggrav8d> andy - pretty. what's the point?
[23:20:01] <aggrav8d> does it increase stepper life?
[23:20:08] <ries> aggrav8d: you did mention crosstalk, and I highly doubt that is going on. non of my cables are screened and given that most data is fairly low impedance, I don't think that this is going on. Unless something is wrong between yourt PC and your BoB or your BoB and your steppers. Did you check if you have pull-up/pull-down resitors? to be sure....
[23:20:10] <aggrav8d> are they waterproof?
[23:20:24] <andypugh> Gives you a connector rather than flying leads. Keeps coolant out. But mainly, looks pretty.
[23:20:36] <aggrav8d> andy - good good.
[23:20:48] <aggrav8d> you gotta stare at it all day, might as well make it look nice.
[23:20:59] * aggrav8d finishes applying the hello, kitty decals.
[23:21:02] <ries> andypugh: I would be worried about cooling with such a cover..
[23:21:49] <andypugh> I have never seen one, but they seem to only cover the wire exit and the back of the motor.
[23:22:11] <aggrav8d> i think part of the issue might be that I didn't secure the drivers to a mount. they've just been... piled on my desk. no doubt jostling them has caused the wires to come loose.
[23:22:17] <jdhNC> I guess stepper covers with boobs on them would be in poor taste.
[23:22:31] <elmo40> not on my machine they wouldn't!
[23:22:50] <aggrav8d> elmo40 - that says more about your tastes than your machine.
[23:23:13] <andypugh> (The big pictures show them mounted on a motor)
[23:23:15] * ries looks boobs...
[23:23:17] <ries> likes
[23:24:02] <andypugh> aggrav8d: Loose wires might cause problems, but loose on a desk is traditional, if not actually mandatory.
[23:25:45] <aggrav8d> well i'm about to drill some mounting holes in an old piece of (some kind of composite) and bolt them down tight.
[23:25:54] <aggrav8d> so i guess i'm some kind of traitor.
[23:26:07] <jdhNC> I like cheap cutting boards
[23:26:23] <aggrav8d> even better if i could put a cover on it to keep dust off the controller.
[23:26:32] <aggrav8d> maybe just wrap that one in a ziplock. :)
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[23:29:12] <andypugh> I admit, I screwed mine to a board.
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[23:32:20] <ries> aggrav8d:you have a picture of your electronics?
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[23:42:39] <aggrav8d> ries - i'll take one as soon as i've bolted them down.
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[23:47:04] <Guest425> hello, can EMC do two parallel ports for step/dir control?
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[23:51:56] <elmo40> you need two?
[23:52:04] <elmo40> how many motors do you plan to run?
[23:52:05] <Guest425> yes
[23:52:17] <Guest425> 5
[23:52:26] <elmo40> one will suffice
[23:52:45] <Guest425> that wasn't my questio
[23:52:46] <elmo40> I believe you can do 9 (cradek, correct me if I am wrong)
[23:53:05] <elmo40> no, it wasnt... just wondering why you would want to use two ports.
[23:53:14] <Guest425> logistics
[23:53:35] <elmo40> two cables are better then one?
[23:54:08] <Guest425> when you have two cots 3 axis drivers it is
[23:54:21] <Guest425> each with a parallel port connector
[23:58:28] <elmo40> I still don't see the logistics... do you currently run both of them simultaneously?
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