#emc | Logs for 2011-03-31

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[01:53:01] <morficmobile> hey Valen
[01:53:07] <Valen> zup
[02:34:02] <morficmobile> not much, just sticking my head in
[02:34:19] <morficmobile> but this night seems to be one of those bad nights
[02:34:28] <morficmobile> old program, large thin parts on lathe
[03:15:47] <Valen> thats no fun
[03:15:55] <Valen> I'm trying to design a driven pendulum clock
[03:15:58] <Valen> in glass
[03:16:00] <Valen> lol
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[03:33:46] <morficmobile> Valen: doesn't sound much more fun
[03:39:02] <Valen> kinda is
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[03:51:10] <morficmobile> Valen: i found out today that i was supposed to make sure all parts fit in the panel, when i clearly remember about "if it doesn't fit, we make another one"
[03:51:41] <morficmobile> that ought to be fun
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[04:39:30] <Valen> nothing like changing the rules after the game has started
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[05:30:08] <morficmobile> Valen: pretty much it yeah, but i should have known this will happen :/
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[08:28:39] <mrsunshine> hmm i wonder if cast aluminium is stiff enough to become an acceptable column for a mill :P
[08:28:50] <mrsunshine> as its hard to cast cast iron at home :/
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[08:52:53] <Paragon39> Morning Folks...
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[08:56:44] <Valen> ey morficmobile still around?
[08:58:32] <archivist> mrsunshine, will you be able to cast enough in one
[08:58:52] <mrsunshine> archivist, to cast enough in one ?
[08:59:06] <archivist> how many kilos can you melt at a time
[08:59:17] <mrsunshine> archivist, not sure, building new furnace atm so =)
[08:59:49] <mrsunshine> the old one can take about 0.9 liters of aluminium with my current crucible, can take more volume with bigger crucible
[08:59:58] <mrsunshine> the new one is alot bigger
[09:00:21] <mrsunshine> archivist, realy i was thinking to cast two sides and join them with an H beam in the middle =)
[09:00:30] <archivist> do the calcs for qty needed for a substantial column
[09:00:30] <mrsunshine> so i get both alu and steel in the construction
[09:00:50] <archivist> better would be box section
[09:00:59] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ABNOf_fmEQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5j_Y4CwMLM and http://www.vapourforge.com/clock/dev/IMAG0893.jpg http://www.vapourforge.com/clock/dev/IMAG0900.jpg http://www.vapourforge.com/clock/dev/IMAG0902.jpg
[09:01:05] <mrsunshine> archivist, and im not going to cast it solid, it will be hollow
[09:01:20] <archivist> box section is hollow!
[09:01:26] <mrsunshine> aye :P
[09:02:02] <Valen> archivist: check the pictures I posted you may like them ;->
[09:04:10] <archivist> ew 4x.... nats p.....
[09:06:40] <archivist> glass gears good though
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[09:07:22] <Valen> lol 4x is awesome ;-P
[09:07:42] <Paragon39> I am seeking some advice on a couple of topics the first is regarding lathe ATC and EMC2. I posess a Denford Starturn that is currently using the Denford dos based software and Denford Fanuc controller. I am concidering retrofitting it to use EMC2. The lathe has an 8 station tool changer that produces a grey scale output to determine tool number. The ATC tool changer procedure is as follows....
[09:07:44] <Paragon39> ...A tool is selected M06 Txx, the ATC turns by sending a 24v to the ATC motor, once the coresponding grey-scale code is reached the motor reverses using 12V which then holds the ATC turret against a rachet. It uses the 12V for the holding torque so as to lower the supply current to the motor so as to preserve the motor from burning out. Hope this makes sence... Can EMC2 be used to control...
[09:07:45] <Paragon39> ...this turret by sending out the Grey-scale codes and if so what are the steps involved to enable this fuctionality? Cheers...
[09:07:53] <archivist> hell it is...Carlsberg rulz
[09:09:02] <archivist> Paragon39, I think so
[09:10:04] <archivist> probably some classic ladder stuff for the tool changer
[09:10:43] <Paragon39> Apparently it's been managed in Mach3 but I am an EMC fan :-)
[09:10:46] <archivist> I want to steal you tool changer for my starturn :)
[09:11:40] <Paragon39> archivist: Have you thought about making one? It looks do able ...
[09:12:32] <archivist> I have but never got a round tuit spare
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[09:12:51] <Valen> module 2 gears on that glass gear
[09:13:14] <Valen> going into a clock soon (i hope) I want it done by next weekend lol
[09:13:37] <archivist> most take a year or three to make clocks
[09:13:55] <Valen> i am cheating though
[09:14:02] <Valen> bigass electromagnet to drive it lol
[09:14:12] <Valen> and no complications
[09:14:22] <Valen> going for this style face http://blog.watchbook.net/watches/ir1.JPG
[09:15:09] <archivist> known as a "regulator" style
[09:15:36] <Valen> yeahs, I think it'll make the most "dramatic" impression, also means I don't need to have any "coaxial shafts"
[09:17:50] <archivist> Valen, tripod for next videos plskthnks
[09:18:23] <Valen> you get hand held phone camera or you get NOTHING!
[09:18:28] <Paragon39> archivist: Here are the plans for the Starturn ATC... Hope you can view it as it is the first time ive used google docs... https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B53oJoJXbpkCODhkY2ZlMGItYWYzMy00ZmVlLTk0NTAtYjA2N2ZhMTk1ODMx&hl=en
[09:19:35] <Valen> wasn't much to see in the videos anyway, though the swirling glass dust in the water is cool
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[09:21:55] <archivist> Paragon39, I dont have permission it seems
[09:22:24] <Paragon39> Ok let me see how I can share it...
[09:23:32] <Paragon39> OK permissions are changed to anyone with link ... try now!
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[09:25:21] <archivist> I still cannot see :(
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[09:26:27] <Paragon39> Mmmm ok ....
[09:27:54] <archivist> ive never used google docs either but maybe add a user dave.thearchivist at gmail.com
[09:28:28] <Paragon39> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B53oJoJXbpkCODhkY2ZlMGItYWYzMy00ZmVlLTk0NTAtYjA2N2ZhMTk1ODMx&hl=en&authkey=COiCockC
[09:29:48] <Paragon39> archivist: is that working?
[09:29:59] <archivist> yup
[09:30:16] <Paragon39> cool :-)
[09:31:29] <archivist> thanks
[09:32:42] <archivist> I currently have a quick change toolpost with some tools setup in the tool table
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[09:46:20] <archivist> Paragon39, it does not seem to have any detection if its against the stop correctly, should that be added ? iirc J Stevenson mentioned something about that too
[09:47:59] <Paragon39> archivist: sorry got pulled away for moment... Do you mean it doesnt output grey-scale when the turret is against the the ratchet stop?
[09:48:48] <archivist> I mean there is no change of gray code on the reversal up to stop
[09:50:08] <archivist> and no hit the stop switch
[09:50:59] <Paragon39> Thats correct it just send 1 grey-scale for each position. The turret turns in a CW rotation until it finds the grey-scale that coresponds to the requested tool change. it then reverses and holds on the stop until the next tool change request.
[09:52:12] <archivist> if its stiff or swarf stops it short then you dont get a defined position or error message
[09:53:40] <Paragon39> Thats true it's not as robust as using an incremental encoder but it's cheaper I guest to implement....
[09:54:53] <Paragon39> archivist: Are you using EMC on your starturn or the Denford DOS software... Or even the old BBC Micro software :-0
[09:55:24] <archivist> are the screws for tool holding under the tool instead of on top
[09:56:27] <Paragon39> Trying to remember ... Mmm under I'm sure...
[09:57:35] <archivist> lot of overhang from the support point and the ratchet point too
[09:58:24] <archivist> therefore light cuts only.. but the lathe is titchy and only up to light work
[09:58:43] <Paragon39> yes there is, but it seems to do the job intended of it, after all these lathes were designed for training and not production ;-)
[09:58:56] <archivist> I have stalled mine and blown the motor fuse :)
[09:59:17] <Paragon39> Are you using EMC on your starturn or the Denford DOS software... Or even the old BBC Micro software :-0
[09:59:37] <archivist> I got it nude so went straight to emc
[09:59:55] <Paragon39> Oh ok... |
[10:02:33] <archivist> I used the internal stepper drivers as before but level shift using a ULN2003 as they are 12v signal
[10:03:24] <archivist> too lazy to use the switches so far
[10:03:47] <archivist> but have used the spindle feedback for screw cutting
[10:04:56] <Paragon39> Here is my other Question.. I currently use UG-NX for design and postprocessing the gcode. I use the generic fanuc post with a few tweaks. The denford fanuc gcode expects G32 G76 and G92 for thread cutting but the post puts out G33 for threading which I think EMC also uses. additionaly the incremental mode uses the U and W in denford where as the post puts out G90/ G92 from memory (same as...
[10:04:58] <Paragon39> ...EMC) I was under the impression that fanuc should use the G32, G76, G92>
[10:09:25] <Valen> I blow fuses on mine all the time
[10:09:31] <Valen> probably should use the limit switches
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[11:32:06] <jthornton> wow, the subroutine gui topic has been viewed 5293 times :)
[11:36:51] <|cncbasher|> thanks John for the help
[11:37:03] <|cncbasher|> and sorry for such a simple mistake ! haha
[11:37:17] <jthornton> no problem, glad to help
[11:37:24] <jthornton> what kind of lathe do you have
[11:37:56] <|cncbasher|> cutting my teeth on a denford orac with emc , but the main refit will be a Hardinge cnc
[11:38:10] <|cncbasher|> once i rip all the fanuc controls out
[11:38:20] <jthornton> what model Hardinge?
[11:38:24] <jthornton> I have a CHNC
[11:38:38] <|cncbasher|> has a spindle problem at the moment which is causing me a big problem
[11:38:43] <|cncbasher|> yes chnc
[11:39:08] <jthornton> cool
[11:39:20] <|cncbasher|> the spindle turns forward and backward quickly and becomes faster , then pops 2 of the main fuses !
[11:39:43] <jthornton> ouch
[11:40:11] <jthornton> is yours a servo drive on the spindle?
[11:40:12] <|cncbasher|> cant make my mind up if it's a motor problem or the speed controller etc
[11:40:31] <|cncbasher|> 7kw dc motor with tacho
[11:41:07] <mrsunshine> archivist, using a steel crucible i should be able to get to about 9.4 liters of molten metal with the volume i have in the furnace, that would be about 20 - 25kg or something like that of molten metal =)
[11:41:09] <jthornton> sounds like the tacho and the drive are not talking for some reason
[11:41:20] <mrsunshine> would hurt like hell to splash over the feet or something :P
[11:41:52] <mrsunshine> but realisticly lets say i can melt about 20kg at a time then
[11:42:19] <|cncbasher|> yea , problem is isolating it to delve deeper , with out blowing £20 fuses !
[11:42:42] <jthornton> ouch
[11:43:12] <mrsunshine> 1cm thick it would end up at about 1x1 meter sheet of metal =)
[11:43:37] <|cncbasher|> i picked 2 of the lathes up six months ago , one just for parts
[11:43:47] <jthornton> so to use ngcgui you can go to each tab and create the step then arrange them in the order you want to happen and send them to axis
[11:44:16] <|cncbasher|> sorted it all out apart from this spiindle problem which appeared just before christmas
[11:44:19] <TekniQue> |cncbasher|: does it also blow the fuses if you run it slower?
[11:44:23] <|cncbasher|> it was running fine
[11:44:58] <|cncbasher|> dont have any control over the speed
[11:45:04] <jthornton> I guess you need a scope to check the tacho but have no idea how
[11:45:06] <TekniQue> ok
[11:45:11] <TekniQue> does it oscillate back and forth?
[11:45:11] <Valen> mine blows the fuses when it runs into the stops lol
[11:45:12] <|cncbasher|> it starts up with the spindle running
[11:45:28] <mrsunshine> can someone make a real instructional video and put on youtube of ngc gui ? :)
[11:45:40] <mrsunshine> the one there is just sloppy and they just throw stuff in :P
[11:45:40] <TekniQue> or does it rotate in one direction
[11:45:40] <Valen> 20 euro fuses? eth are they?
[11:45:42] <Valen> wth
[11:45:44] <|cncbasher|> yea back and forth and becomes faster , then blows 2 of the main 3ph fuses
[11:45:54] <TekniQue> sounds like a blown rectifier
[11:46:10] <TekniQue> or bridge driver problem
[11:46:37] <Valen> is it a synchronous motor or does it have some kind of variable frequency drive?
[11:46:40] <TekniQue> perhaps both
[11:46:43] <|cncbasher|> in the kollmorgan speed controller /
[11:46:49] <TekniQue> he said it was a DC motor
[11:47:09] <TekniQue> 11:40:31 < |cncbasher|> 7kw dc motor with tacho
[11:47:09] <Valen> ahh yeah just saw that
[11:47:22] <Valen> actually it could well be a burnt phase then
[11:47:39] <TekniQue> yes
[11:47:42] <TekniQue> could be
[11:47:50] <Valen> if its a DC motor, I'd get a big resistor (both in value and power rating)
[11:48:14] <Valen> hook that in series, then spin the motor up by hand and apply power (low voltage, like a car battery)
[11:48:30] <Valen> but I haven't heard of a 7Kw DC motor being used for a spindle off hand
[11:48:36] <Valen> thats more like servo drive stuff
[11:48:58] <jthornton> yea, mine is a servo drive for the spindle
[11:49:00] <Valen> and it'd need some kind of speed control, rectified mains > DC motor isn't going to be pretty
[11:49:17] <TekniQue> true
[11:49:18] <Valen> I was talking about |cncbasher|s thing
[11:49:32] <|cncbasher|> it could be servo , just never got that far to look
[11:49:37] <jdhNC> 9.3hp dc motor?
[11:49:41] <jthornton> we both have the same lathe but different controls
[11:50:06] <|cncbasher|> i'm back in the office on friday , i'll take some pics
[11:50:17] <|cncbasher|> and let you see John
[11:51:00] <jthornton> ok, this is mine http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ16
[11:51:04] <|cncbasher|> it has the fanuc 16 controller at the moment , but my thoughts are to rip it all out
[11:51:58] <Valen> if it has a servo controller try disconnecting it, from everything and just applying volts to the motor
[11:52:00] <jthornton> I ripped out all the controls on mine but left the drives
[11:52:10] <Valen> if it is in fact DC (not brushless DC) it should spin
[11:52:16] <Valen> use low volts lol
[11:53:39] <jthornton> I'll take a photo of my drives as soon as the wife leaves for work and I can open the cabinet :)
[11:54:23] <|cncbasher|> you's looks clean compaired to mine lol
[11:54:54] <jthornton> it took a while to get that way lol
[11:55:03] <jthornton> the most fun was the coolant tank
[11:55:19] <|cncbasher|> haha yea , i emptied mine !
[11:55:21] <jthornton> I had to crawl under my plasma cutter to pull it out
[11:55:37] <|cncbasher|> dug it out with a spade
[11:56:07] <jthornton> I have about 5 gallons of fines in there with lots of gunk
[11:56:14] <|cncbasher|> this machine has only ever been used cutting ferrules in brass
[11:56:30] <jthornton> nice, do you have tooling for it?
[11:56:39] <|cncbasher|> complete with 4m bar feeder
[11:56:47] <jthornton> is yours 16C ?
[11:56:55] <|cncbasher|> 16b i think
[11:57:13] <|cncbasher|> 16c collets
[11:58:02] <jthornton> I found a 16C to 8C Hardinge adapter on flea bay so I didn't have to purchase a bunch of collets to get up and running
[11:59:51] <|cncbasher|> i got about 12 collets and 4 turret plattens for it
[12:00:22] <jthornton> does your collet closer look like this one? http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,2432/lang,english/
[12:03:15] <|cncbasher|> yes thats the one John
[12:03:41] <|cncbasher|> just found the manual for the speed control
[12:04:05] <|cncbasher|> it says six phase SCR servo amp HPA series
[12:04:11] <|cncbasher|> so it is a servo
[12:06:00] <|cncbasher|> problem is solving the motor lol , thought if it is stuffed better to solve the motor first before i spend on refit to emc
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[12:09:57] <jthornton> yes that makes sense...
[12:12:36] <jthornton> do the original controls work?
[12:13:13] <|cncbasher|> yes the origional controls work , apart from the feed hold light is on all the time
[12:14:06] <jthornton> does the spindle go nuts when you power up or when you tell it to spin?
[12:14:11] <|cncbasher|> everything works fine , turrent , bar fee
[12:14:24] <|cncbasher|> goes nuts soon as you enable it
[12:14:32] <|cncbasher|> i.e out of estop
[12:15:40] <|cncbasher|> i was thinking it could be one of the scr's playing up
[12:16:09] <|cncbasher|> or probably the tacho circuit
[12:16:45] <jthornton> that makes more sense to me that the drive is telling the servo to move but doesn't see the tacho properly
[12:16:58] <jthornton> have you checked the physical mounting of the tacho?
[12:17:20] <jthornton> that's my drives http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/P1010031.jpg
[12:17:27] <|cncbasher|> no not removed the motor cover as yet
[12:17:39] <jthornton> a fun thing to get to lol
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[12:19:15] <cncbasher> heck your cabinet is so neat compaired to this one
[12:19:57] <cncbasher> i'll feed some pics over for the weekend , as i'm not at the office till tomorrow
[12:20:04] <jthornton> ok
[12:20:30] <cncbasher> was yours fitted with Allen Bradley controls
[12:21:14] <jthornton> General Numeric
[12:21:33] <jthornton> an odd one I think as most were Fanuc AFAIK
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[12:22:10] <cncbasher> mind you never tried the tape drive !
[12:22:24] <cncbasher> dont have any tapes haha
[12:22:40] <jthornton> no, I've not had that fun
[12:25:03] <jthornton> I have enough fun with my two machines that use floppies :)
[12:25:27] <cncbasher> whats those
[12:25:30] <cncbasher> hehe
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[12:26:04] <cncbasher> once i convert the hardinge , next one is the laser !
[12:26:12] <jthornton> cool
[12:26:40] <jthornton> once you get the swing of ngcgui you will love using it... it saves me so much time
[12:26:57] <cncbasher> i hope to eventualy have them all running emc , so then have a common control
[12:27:23] <cncbasher> yea just need to figure how to now
[12:27:35] <jthornton> and all on the network!
[12:27:59] <jthornton> if you have any questions just holler
[12:28:00] <cncbasher> yes thats the idea
[12:28:20] <cncbasher> thanks John , no doubt i will
[12:28:48] <cncbasher> long tiime since i use linux , so another learning curve again
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[12:28:57] * jthornton heads for the shower now
[12:29:04] <cncbasher> or at least remembering
[12:29:19] <jthornton> ubuntu didn't seem to much of a learning curve from winblows
[12:29:48] <cncbasher> just all the cripic messages ! haha
[12:30:00] <cncbasher> ok if your off catch you later
[12:30:09] <jthornton> ok see you later
[12:30:21] <cncbasher> need to set irc up here and monitor etc
[12:30:41] <cncbasher> i'm in the UK btw
[12:31:01] <cncbasher> thanks for the chat
[12:31:03] <skunkworks> there are a few over there :) archivist for one..
[12:31:57] <cncbasher> ok thanks
[12:32:02] <cncbasher> i'll look out
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[12:33:46] <|cncbasher|> oops was logged in twice
[12:34:18] <alex_joni> better twice than not at all
[12:34:34] <|cncbasher|> yea
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[13:22:38] <skunkworks> z axis has started buzzing sometimes. no ferror though so it must be fine ;)
[13:23:21] <skunkworks> Didn't get a chance to look at it much -but it might be the tach as it might be rotation dependant.
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[13:47:12] <archivist> |cncbasher|, east midlands
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[13:57:49] <MattyMatt> is http://www.cnc-projects.de working anywhere? dns failure here
[14:02:48] <jdhNC> it did full manual, but that was too much of a pain.
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[14:24:50] <|cncbasher|> hi all
[14:25:17] <|cncbasher|> dave in sunny Hartlepool !
[14:43:09] <JT-Shop> |cncbasher|: when you get ready to convert your CHNC I have prints on the electrical conversion and they might be of some use to you...
[14:44:06] <|cncbasher|> yea great thanks
[14:44:29] <|cncbasher|> just send them over when you can , would be a great help
[14:44:37] <|cncbasher|> in ordering whats needed
[14:45:46] <|cncbasher|> if i can sort the spindle , then it should only be a week or so and i'll start modifying it John
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[18:34:54] <skunkworks> ?
[18:40:43] <jdhNC> he's dead Jim.
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[18:41:29] <jdhNC> the resident residends idle harder than we do.
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[18:44:20] <LE> Slt
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[18:44:50] <Guest19939> slt
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[19:04:19] <newbynobi> mhaberler Are you anywhere out there?
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[19:07:10] <andypugh> The Wiki "Future of EMC2" section is a bit sad, appears that nothing has happened since 2008. To be honest that page might as well be deleted, as I think everything there is done?
[19:14:05] <newbynobi> Do you mean the EMC2 Development page? I do agree, that this one is old.
[19:17:07] <cradek> it's fun to find an old TODO list with everything on it done
[19:17:42] <skunkworks> 'add antigravity interface'
[19:33:29] <andypugh> Bottom of the WIKI front page, there is a link "The Future of E<C2"
[19:35:03] <andypugh> I don't seem able to upload a file to the Wiki?
[19:35:35] <JT-Shop> looks ok to me
[19:35:53] <alex_joni> andypugh: you need to be registered
[19:35:53] <JT-Shop> The future of EMC and future is a link
[19:36:28] <andypugh> I am registered, in fact I just edited a page and linked to the image that I can't upload....
[19:36:40] <JT-Shop> image might be too big
[19:36:55] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes, but if you follow the link, it seems out of date.
[19:37:06] <andypugh> I already shrunked the image to 160k
[19:37:15] <JT-Shop> very out of date
[19:37:39] <andypugh> (The oversize versions just bounced me back to the front page, which was where I noticed the "Future" link.
[19:37:51] <JT-Shop> at least as far as fests go
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[19:41:00] <mhaberler> newbynobi: yess
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[19:45:20] <|cncbasher|> the Future has become a black hole
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[19:47:26] <JT-Shop> LOL
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[21:06:48] <bzzzz> cnc on a chip
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[21:40:26] <andypugh> Go on?
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[22:10:59] <andypugh> Does an 8-channel analogue output card need individually-settable max and min voltage limits?
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[22:38:30] <skunkworks_> one of these days I need to change the geometry of emc so that the cone isn't up side down when the table is rotated 180
[22:38:53] <Jymmm> sideways ftw
[22:39:07] <JT-Shop> skunkworks_: stand on your head
[22:40:17] <JT-Shop> my machine won't run, why not... :/
[22:40:47] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DQOsLdT4slsk&rct=j&sa=X&ei=3AKVTePfPNHdiALF54mdCQ&ved=0CDwQuAIwAA&q=cal+worthington&usg=AFQjCNH4TdwnYZQCN8SlD1Xn5szBI_UQqA&cad=rja
[22:40:55] <JT-Shop> I sometimes find that hard to answer but for some reason I try anyway
[22:41:52] * JT-Shop goes to play with breakers and look for shorts and longs
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[22:42:59] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: Just be like Cal Worthington
[22:43:09] <Jymmm> and his dog spot!
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