#emc | Logs for 2011-03-30

[00:10:27] -!- logger[psha] [logger[psha]!~loggerpsh@] has joined #emc
[00:10:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: I thought you knew something I didn't is all =)
[00:12:54] <andypugh> Closest I can get: http://littlebirdelectronics.com/products/seeeduino-v2-2-atmega-328p?utm_source=google-product-search
[00:12:54] <Jymmm> Hmmm, is Uno better or worse than Denali?
[00:13:10] <andypugh> Denali?
[00:13:20] <andypugh> That's a skiing boot!
[00:13:26] <andypugh> (And a mountain)
[00:13:28] <Jymmm> the one before Uno
[00:13:39] <andypugh> Uno is just newer, and a little cheaper
[00:14:43] <Jymmm> Duemilanove
[00:15:28] <andypugh> $17.50 but no USB onboard... http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=72
[00:17:43] <Jymmm> Eh, $10 extra to save the headahces would be worth it =)
[00:18:21] <atom1> uno uses a avr usb chip for the serial comm
[00:18:27] <atom1> instead of a ftdi chip
[00:20:05] <atom1> what do you want do do with it?
[00:20:24] <Jymmm> Instead, it features the Atmega8U2 programmed as a USB-to-serial converter.
[00:20:25] <andypugh> He wants to generate 50 step pulses when he presses a button
[00:20:48] <atom1> get a usb atmel
[00:20:51] <atom1> chip
[00:21:07] <atom1> if you want usb on it
[00:21:45] <andypugh> Anyway, it got late again.
[00:21:52] -!- andypugh has quit [Quit: andypugh]
[00:21:53] <atom1> the 8u2 chip used dean camera's lufa lib for the serial
[00:22:11] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USB_Breakout/USB_Breakout_index.php
[00:22:28] <atom1> is a simple atmega32U2 breakout board
[00:25:10] <Jymmm> I dont need all that, but ardunio is the cheapest/simplest route. (overkill by a long shot)
[00:25:49] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, didn't you get an AVR butterfly or similar thing somewhere
[00:26:02] <SWPadnos> like at ESC or something, a couple of years agi
[00:26:04] <SWPadnos> ago
[00:26:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I have the Duemilanove
[00:26:24] <SWPadnos> oh. well that will do it :)
[00:26:30] <Jymmm> yep
[00:26:48] <atom1> those are all ftdi serial with an arduino bootloader on the other avr chip
[00:27:08] <Jymmm> Thought it's like using a drill press to put a hole in toilet paper... WAY over kill =)
[00:27:15] <atom1> the uno is the only avr based serial one
[00:27:20] <SWPadnos> it's not that much overkill actually
[00:27:36] <SWPadnos> you need something to output a specific number of step pulses every time
[00:28:02] <SWPadnos> you either need to make some counting logic (there are counter chips you could use for this), as well as a pulse generator
[00:28:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, and it still be cheaper and easier with an ardunio =)
[00:28:32] <atom1> there's any number of ways to do it
[00:28:40] <SWPadnos> or you need a single microcontroller, with nearly zero other components (just a resistor and capacitor on the reset line)
[00:28:45] <SWPadnos> exactly
[00:28:55] <SWPadnos> so it's not overkill, even though it can do more than you need it to do
[00:29:04] <Jymmm> And the OEM750 inputs are already optically isolated too
[00:29:08] <SWPadnos> you can't use much less and still get the job done
[00:29:25] <atom1> a attiny10 would almost do it
[00:29:30] <atom1> but it's only got 4 io
[00:29:38] <atom1> and you'd need 5
[00:29:40] <SWPadnos> 4 I/O is enough
[00:29:45] <SWPadnos> button, step, dir
[00:29:48] <Jymmm> Yeah, plus it'll let me use an opto interupter for indexing
[00:29:50] <SWPadnos> only need 3
[00:29:55] <SWPadnos> ok, that's number 4
[00:29:59] <atom1> it runs at 12Mhz internal osc
[00:30:47] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyTPI1.jpg
[00:30:50] <atom1> asm only though
[00:30:57] <atom1> avrgcc doesn't support it
[00:31:10] <Jymmm> eeeeeesh that's tiny
[00:31:15] <atom1> yessir
[00:31:22] <atom1> SOT23-6
[00:31:23] <SWPadnos> it should be 100 or so lines of assembly
[00:31:42] <atom1> for about a buck
[00:32:02] <Jymmm> I have some 2x16 lcd packs, might be nice to make a standalone step gen
[00:32:30] <SWPadnos> you'd want more I/O for the LCD ;)
[00:32:36] <Jymmm> 4
[00:32:38] <atom1> the lcd needs 8
[00:32:43] <SWPadnos> yep, 8
[00:32:46] <SWPadnos> or maybe 7
[00:32:46] <Jymmm> 4
[00:32:51] <SWPadnos> serial?
[00:32:53] <atom1> 4 data and 3 control
[00:32:59] <atom1> i did a serial lcd board
[00:33:02] <Jymmm> hitachi serial backpack
[00:33:05] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:33:06] <atom1> it's on the oven
[00:33:35] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/serial_lcd_brd.png
[00:33:38] <atom1> similar to that
[00:33:47] <atom1> that one uses a tiny2313
[00:33:53] <atom1> since it has rs232 on it
[00:34:11] <atom1> made to plug in the back of a regular lcd
[00:34:25] <atom1> single or 2 row
[00:35:26] -!- jdhNC [jdhNC!~jdh@miranda.org] has joined #emc
[00:35:30] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/ser_lcd_board2.jpg
[00:35:35] <atom1> there's a variation of it
[00:35:40] <atom1> i used that one on my oven
[00:35:57] <atom1> before i standardized the pinout for a backplane
[00:37:28] <Jymmm> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDiecimila
[00:38:07] <atom1> that's one of the early ones i think
[00:38:12] <atom1> mega168
[00:38:33] <SWPadnos> it's about 15.7k more than necessary :)
[00:38:39] <Jymmm> Lets say 8 for LCD, two for step/dir, one for opto-interupter, still leaves three for buttons
[00:38:59] <atom1> make your own board using the 168
[00:39:08] <Jymmm> too much work
[00:39:13] <atom1> pfft
[00:39:17] <SWPadnos> wuss
[00:39:23] <Jymmm> yeppers
[00:39:38] <Jymmm> I just need it to un/load pet tags into the laser
[00:39:48] <atom1> i've got a 168 breakout somewhere
[00:39:59] <SWPadnos> and tell the laser to go ahead?
[00:40:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: other way around, the laser tells the motor to turn
[00:40:31] <SWPadnos> and the motor controller should tell the laser when it's done ...
[00:40:42] <SWPadnos> two way street
[00:40:55] <Jymmm> ok
[00:41:11] <Jymmm> got 6 analog pins for that
[00:41:19] <SWPadnos> I'm assuming that would be a good idea
[00:41:37] <Jymmm> ok fine, no premature lasering
[00:41:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:42:07] -!- Gurgalof [Gurgalof!~Gurgalof@m80-170-219-61.cust.tele2.se] has joined #emc
[00:42:10] <SWPadnos> can you just stick 8 tags in the machine and have the laser cut them all (ie, use something like G5x offsets for them)
[00:42:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sure, but still have to un/load them
[00:42:32] <Jymmm> by hand
[00:42:48] <atom1> put a tube on one station and make a 'tool changer' for them
[00:42:55] <atom1> index it into positon and laser them
[00:42:57] <SWPadnos> ah, so this is (eventually) going to swing them outside the enclosure?
[00:43:00] <atom1> then rotate it
[00:43:06] <Jymmm> atom1: No shit? why didn' I think of that
[00:43:12] <atom1> let the tube do the changing
[00:43:17] <atom1> i bet you did
[00:43:31] <atom1> whatcho waitin for?
[00:43:46] <Jymmm> Oh wiat, I did... 2011-03-29 17:02:03 Jymmm: SWPadnos: want to turn the disc 90 degrees http://i51.tinypic.com/2ymay4z.jpgat the push of a button
[00:44:35] <Jymmm> atom1: The sampels to arrive actually =)
[00:44:44] <atom1> instead of loading all the disk and lasering a batch, add a stacker to one position and let it load them
[00:44:55] <atom1> and rotate it each part
[00:45:01] <Jymmm> atom1: No shit? why didn' I think of that
[00:45:06] <Jymmm> Oh wiat, I did... 2011-03-29 17:02:03 Jymmm: SWPadnos: want to turn the disc 90 degrees http://i51.tinypic.com/2ymay4z.jpgat the push of a button
[00:45:11] <atom1> whatcho waitin for?
[00:45:14] <atom1> :D
[00:45:16] <Jymmm> atom1: The sampels to arrive actually =)
[00:45:20] <SWPadnos> the laser can move more or less anywhere within the enclosure. it's getting them in and out of the enclosure that's the problem
[00:45:20] <atom1> ok
[00:45:27] <SWPadnos> echo base this is echo echo echo echo 1
[00:45:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: load == 9 oclock, laser == noon, unload 3 oclock
[00:46:28] <atom1> what happens at 6 o'clock?
[00:46:32] <Jymmm> 6oclock == validate empty
[00:46:34] <SWPadnos> yeah, I get it. you'll need a tiny laser enclosure or a really big wheel
[00:46:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: tiny?
[00:47:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: wheel can be 12" diameter
[00:47:35] <SWPadnos> well, I may be jumping the gun. I'm thinking about doing all this stuff with the lid closed
[00:47:58] <atom1> mod a lid for the load station and extend the tube from it
[00:47:58] <SWPadnos> so you want an access point on one side for loading, on the other side for unloading, and somewhere else for engraving
[00:48:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Lid open, whole mechanics sit on frame with new window
[00:48:17] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:48:25] <SWPadnos> in that case you can use any size you like :)
[00:48:47] <atom1> trigger an air shot at 3 o'clock to unload them
[00:48:52] <Jymmm> sorta yeah. I still need to send commands to the laser via serial port
[00:49:07] <Jymmm> atom1: nope, just drop down
[00:49:12] <atom1> or that
[00:49:22] <SWPadnos> and I'd do it differently. I'd let the laser engrave in any slot - you just have 4 (or however many) slots that you load on one side, index to the next position for engraving, then to the next position for removal
[00:49:55] <SWPadnos> you'd want a pseudo-encoder for determining position, and another sensor to be sure there's something to engrave
[00:50:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: There are dozens of ways to improve the design. Just want one (for now) that will work.
[00:50:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Going to use an opto-interupter to index/calibrate
[00:50:42] <SWPadnos> well, you might as well plan for all the I/O you'll want. the software is pretty easy in any case
[00:51:13] <atom1> is that what the 50 count stepper pulse is for?
[00:51:14] <Jymmm> This is all assuming I can tube feed from bottom without damaging the tags.
[00:51:21] <Jymmm> atom1: yep
[00:51:52] <atom1> heh, let it spin and write it like a writescribe
[00:52:04] <Jymmm> Uh, no
[00:52:07] <atom1> those didn't last long
[00:52:33] <Jymmm> If I was a sw junkie like cradek or jepler, sure
[00:53:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I figure if I can place the un/loader on the machine, it be easy to remove as needed
[00:53:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: and room for higher capacity tubes
[00:53:56] <atom1> how long does it take to scribe one?
[00:54:06] <Jymmm> it cna var
[00:54:32] <Jymmm> simple text to a photograph
[00:55:32] <Jymmm> is there a simple step gen in emc?
[00:55:40] <Jymmm> 50 pulse, stop.
[00:55:50] <Jymmm> rev direction, etc
[00:56:25] <atom1> that would be a good app for a small avr really
[00:56:44] <atom1> how big is the stepper?
[00:56:45] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, stepgen is a simple stepgen like that :)
[00:56:55] <atom1> would a 1A hbridge be big enough for it?
[00:57:07] <SWPadnos> it accelerates and decelerates, and goes to the position you tell it
[00:57:09] <Jymmm> atom1: I have OEM750's
[00:57:12] <atom1> or do you have the drivers already
[00:57:16] <atom1> k
[00:57:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I dont want position, just gen 50 pulses
[00:57:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: for testing the mechanicla stuff
[00:57:55] <atom1> so you just need a serial pulse stream of 50 pulses
[00:57:57] <atom1> not a step pattern
[00:58:03] <SWPadnos> set the scale to 1 then, and give the position in pulses
[00:58:05] <Jymmm> pulse generatoer
[00:58:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ah
[00:58:24] <SWPadnos> or set the scale to 200/12, and give it in "o'clock" units
[00:58:40] <Jymmm> x3; ?
[00:59:00] <SWPadnos> no, just use a stepgen and the parallel port, don't bother with EMC
[00:59:14] <SWPadnos> here's a hal file that might nearly work with halrun:
[00:59:18] <SWPadnos> loadrt parport
[00:59:26] <SWPadnos> loadrt stepgen num_stepgens=1
[00:59:33] <SWPadnos> setp stepgen.0.scale 1
[00:59:41] <SWPadnos> newsig position
[00:59:48] <SWPadnos> err - scratch that last
[01:00:01] <SWPadnos> net position stepgen.0.command-position
[01:00:08] <SWPadnos> (look up the name)
[01:00:11] <Jymmm> k
[01:00:26] <SWPadnos> net stepgen.0.step parport.0.pin-xx (you choose)
[01:00:34] <SWPadnos> net stepgen.0.dir parport.0.pin-yy (you choose)
[01:00:58] <SWPadnos> you might want to mess with the timing parameters too - steplen, stepspace, dirspace, dirhold
[01:01:24] <SWPadnos> then you can use sets position blah (since there's a signal called position now)
[01:01:44] <SWPadnos> you can also get really crazy and make a pyvcp panel with a knob/slider
[01:01:54] <Jymmm> Ok, let me get further along with the mechanics
[01:01:58] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:04:31] <Jymmm> would using to opto-interupters be better?
[01:04:42] <Jymmm> for absolute position?
[01:05:05] <Jymmm> one on the step and half-step (I guess)?
[01:05:11] <SWPadnos> optos are good so you can be sure the thing is in the right place
[01:05:28] <SWPadnos> and also to see if there's anything in there to be lased
[01:06:26] -!- crazy_imp has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
[01:06:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I dont know if I could find one that could verify the slot it empty of not
[01:07:12] <Jymmm> http://circuits.datasheetdir.com/142/QVE00112-pinout.jpg
[01:07:13] <SWPadnos> the motor microcontroller can monitor whether the slot was empty as it's being moved into position
[01:07:25] -!- EDocTooR has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[01:07:41] <SWPadnos> it can just light a red LED or something if it thinks there's a problem
[01:07:55] <SWPadnos> and then the operator loads another blank and hits the "go" button again
[01:08:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Right, but I haven't seen any with a 1" reach
[01:09:09] <SWPadnos> the bottom of the machining area is reflective enough so that you should be able to use one of the side by side ones (emitter next to sensor, a reflection off the bottom would be an "open" slot)
[01:09:17] <SWPadnos> though that may bear some thought
[01:10:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: The pet tags come in diffeent shapes, I was planning on making differtne discs for each
[01:10:53] <Jymmm> I guess I could use a micro switch
[01:10:55] <SWPadnos> ah. the bottom plate is actually what would be below the tags, so you can have some pattern on that that might be detected by a reflective sensor
[01:11:02] -!- crazy_imp [crazy_imp!~mj@a89-182-208-48.net-htp.de] has joined #emc
[01:11:23] -!- Gurgalof has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[01:11:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: are they expensive?
[01:11:46] <Jymmm> reliable?
[01:11:54] <SWPadnos> a few bucks max
[01:11:58] <SWPadnos> sure
[01:12:05] <SWPadnos> it's an LED and a photodiode
[01:12:17] <Jymmm> well the reflective part I mean
[01:12:47] <SWPadnos> you're making the bottom plate, so you control the reflective part
[01:13:11] <Jymmm> the tags have to "slide" on the bottom disc
[01:13:27] <SWPadnos> the "beam" would either reflect off the bottom plate (no tag present) or off the tag if it's there. the trick is making something that will be "obvious" to a microcontroller
[01:13:44] <Jymmm> yaeah
[01:13:59] -!- cevad [cevad!~davec@host-174-45-229-40.bln-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #emc
[01:14:37] <Jymmm> bbl
[01:14:52] <SWPadnos> yup. me too
[01:20:15] -!- alex_chally [alex_chally!~alex_chal@c-98-232-231-131.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[01:25:38] -!- Techrat [Techrat!~TRat@unaffiliated/techrat] has joined #emc
[01:25:49] -!- mozmck1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[01:35:47] -!- tlab has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[01:51:01] <Valen> :-< drawing mah clock has made me realise it has a rather large flaw :-<
[01:51:20] <Valen> it'll tick, but not tock
[01:52:39] <Jymmm> give it an O'ring =)
[01:53:01] <Jymmm> or an I/O Ring =)
[01:54:45] <Jymmm> t*I*ck t*O*ck
[01:59:00] <Valen> think i have worked it out
[01:59:04] <Valen> adds some complexity
[01:59:12] <Valen> but thats a good thing i spose lol
[02:03:17] <Jymmm> what kind of clock, geared?
[02:07:55] <Valen> yeah
[02:08:01] <Valen> but driven pendulum
[02:08:09] <Valen> (electromagnet drives pendulum)
[02:08:23] <Valen> but I want a "tick" every second and fairly continious movement
[02:08:24] <Jymmm> externally powered?
[02:08:31] <Valen> yeah
[02:08:35] <Jymmm> k
[02:08:46] <Jymmm> perpetual would be cool
[02:08:51] <Valen> ?
[02:08:57] <Jymmm> self-powered
[02:09:10] <Jymmm> they exist, but are very sensative
[02:09:10] <Valen> so a ratchet on the escapement works but it only "ticks" once every other second
[02:09:27] <Valen> you mean the ones driven by changes in air pressure and the like?
[02:09:32] <Jymmm> oh, double the teeth?
[02:09:37] <Jymmm> exactly
[02:09:51] <Valen> yeah still only "ticks" every other second
[02:09:54] <Valen> my think was this
[02:10:02] <Valen> put 2 "escapement" wheels in
[02:10:19] <Valen> (think mickey mouse with one escapement as each ear)
[02:10:26] <Valen> then have 2 ratchets
[02:10:32] <Valen> one pushes one way and one the other
[02:10:50] <Valen> the gear in the center gets driven on both tick and tock then
[02:11:08] -!- mozmck [mozmck!~moses@client-] has joined #emc
[02:14:05] <Jymmm> Valen: I know nothing about gears, I can't even tell you which gear turns which direction and theres only two of em
[02:16:13] <Valen> nope that doesnt work either crap
[02:17:45] <Valen> needs an idler or something
[02:19:15] <Valen> but that wont be pretty
[02:56:18] <bzzzz> cesium clocks ftw
[02:57:45] -!- mozmck1 [mozmck1!~moses@client-] has joined #emc
[02:58:29] <Valen> this will hopefully be as accurate as one of those
[02:58:57] <Valen> I plan to use a 1 second a year RTC for short period time keeping, and mains for long period
[02:59:21] <bzzzz> main source of rtc inaccuracies is the oscillator itself, right?
[02:59:31] -!- mozmck has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[02:59:38] <Valen> yeah, but these have the oscilator built in
[03:00:07] <atom1> most rtc use a crystal
[03:00:12] <atom1> 32768khz
[03:00:22] <bzzzz> 32768hz*
[03:00:25] <atom1> 32.768
[03:00:32] <atom1> my bad
[03:00:34] <bzzzz> Valen: rc circuit
[03:00:41] <bzzzz> atom1: it's late, we all make mistakes
[03:00:55] <bzzzz> Valen: uh, i meant: rc circuit?
[03:00:57] <Valen> they use crystal oscilators
[03:00:58] -!- Gurgalof [Gurgalof!~Gurgalof@m80-170-219-61.cust.tele2.se] has joined #emc
[03:01:06] <bzzzz> interesting.
[03:01:10] <atom1> some avr's allow for a clock crystal input on one of the timers
[03:01:14] <bzzzz> is temperature variance an issue?
[03:01:21] <atom1> sure
[03:01:23] <Valen> the magic chip takes care of all that
[03:01:27] <bzzzz> atom1: actuallyi think most ucs have secondary osc inputs
[03:01:34] <bzzzz> Valen: cool
[03:01:39] <Valen> most of them dont
[03:01:50] <atom1> well, some are set up for a clock crystal input
[03:01:59] <atom1> with the internal caps for it
[03:02:20] <Valen> they will all generally take a crystal input, but secondary real time clocks are much more scarse
[03:02:39] <atom1> that's what i was getting at
[03:03:02] <bzzzz> how much extra do these cost?
[03:03:11] <atom1> the old mega128 does i know
[03:03:29] <atom1> it's just a feature of the avr, you just gotta look for it
[03:03:55] <Valen> thing is even with one of those your probably not going to be all that accurate anyway
[03:03:56] <bzzzz> 1 sec/year is pretty sweet
[03:04:07] <Valen> its something like that
[03:04:10] <Jymmm> Need a PPS receiver
[03:04:42] <jdhNC> and a clear view?
[03:04:59] <Jymmm> well for pps via gps, or WWV
[03:05:01] <Valen> I was thinking of using GPS but they arent so good inside
[03:05:28] <Jymmm> Couls use WWV depening on locaiton
[03:05:56] <Valen> don't think we have that in australia and even then reception can be iffy
[03:06:13] <Jymmm> usually open at night
[03:06:16] <Valen> the device will be mains powered and over time that is "perfect" so should be ok
[03:06:45] <Jymmm> Valen: and yes .au does
[03:07:02] <jdhNC> same wwvb?
[03:07:09] <Jymmm> simular
[03:07:40] <Valen> I'll have an AVR at 16mhz that'll be doing the per second timing, I
[03:07:58] <Valen> I'll correct that over a minute timescale from the 1pps output from the RTC
[03:08:13] <jdhNC> http://www.c-max-time.com/products/showProduct.php?id=1
[03:08:15] <Valen> and I'll correct that over a few days timescale by looking at mains pilses
[03:08:26] <atom1> Valen, you can't use one with the rtc input clock to get what you need?
[03:08:39] <atom1> the other timer can still run at 16 or whatever
[03:09:11] <Valen> real time clock is an IC, some of them have a 32khz xtal input but its not going to be that accurate
[03:09:43] <Jymmm> jdhNC: nice
[03:10:18] <atom1> i know, here's one i did: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/RTC3.jpg
[03:10:37] <Valen> atom1: your tom-itx?
[03:10:42] <atom1> yessir
[03:10:56] <Valen> wassup with the nick?
[03:11:03] <atom1> just logged in my new atom itx
[03:11:08] <Valen> lol
[03:11:12] <atom1> heh
[03:11:13] <Valen> be tom-atom or something lol
[03:11:27] <Jymmm> He is... aTOM1
[03:11:36] * Valen smites Jymmm
[03:11:38] <atom1> yeah someone suggested that
[03:11:41] <atom1> aTom
[03:12:03] atom1 is now known as Tom_L
[03:12:05] <Tom_L> there
[03:12:23] <Valen> I take what you say with more credibility than some random now lol
[03:12:30] <Tom_L> hah
[03:12:37] <Jymmm> Valen: why? I never have
[03:12:42] <Tom_L> it screwed with abcminiuser for a while too
[03:13:01] <Tom_L> Jymmm yeah i know
[03:13:39] <Jymmm> Hmm, I *thought* .au had a time ref,
[03:13:54] <Jymmm> I'd suggest use .jp, but well you know
[03:14:00] <Jymmm> maybe hawaii
[03:14:16] <Jymmm> they have soem serious elevation
[03:14:24] <Tom_L> i use colorado but that's just closer for me
[03:14:44] <Jymmm> same here
[03:14:48] <Valen> mains is pretty good over the long term
[03:14:55] <Jymmm> ha
[03:15:07] <Valen> i mean the *long* term
[03:15:10] <Valen> like days to weeks
[03:15:18] <Jymmm> I mean... HA!
[03:15:28] <Valen> you hear different?
[03:15:53] <Jymmm> No leap second on mains
[03:16:26] Tom_L is now known as atom1
[03:16:39] <Valen> its a wall clock
[03:16:45] <Jymmm> so?
[03:16:50] <Valen> it goes tick and hopefully tock
[03:17:10] <Valen> the time will be set by pushing the hands around
[03:17:21] <Valen> a minute a year will be good enough in real terms
[03:17:28] <Jymmm> bullshit
[03:17:33] <Valen> (actually grandfather clock)
[03:18:00] <Valen> if having a clock 1 minute out causes you to die i'll refund your money
[03:18:20] <Jymmm> 5MHz puts out 10KW, you should be able to receive that
[03:18:30] <Valen> to what end?
[03:18:41] -!- rooks has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish.]
[03:18:42] <Valen> I have no way of knowing what the hands are pointing to
[03:18:57] <Valen> as such knowing the actual time is pretty meaningless
[03:18:59] <Jymmm> blame he designer for that
[03:19:04] <Jymmm> the
[03:19:07] <Jymmm> ;)
[03:19:08] <Valen> it just doesn't matter
[03:19:20] -!- brendanjerwin has quit [Quit: brendanjerwin]
[03:19:25] <Jymmm> It ALWAYS matters, just ask the Time Guy!
[03:19:40] <cradek> meh
[03:19:44] <Jymmm> lol
[03:20:06] <Valen> if i wanted an accurate clock it'd be digital and run off GPS
[03:20:35] <Valen> although there is some concern these days about GPS jamming and soon spoofing causing big problems
[03:20:37] <Jymmm> cradek: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/hoodies/8cc3/
[03:21:28] <Jymmm> Valen: Yes, and why you should have your own cesium clock
[03:21:31] <cradek> Jymmm: the picture with the three of them wearing it makes me laugh, not sure why it's funnier that way
[03:21:58] <Jymmm> cradek: =)
[03:22:02] <Valen> Jymmm: i would but they are $500 or so last i heard
[03:22:11] <Valen> due for release sometime soon
[03:22:26] <Jymmm> Valen: then make your own !
[03:22:33] <Valen> i'm busy you make one
[03:22:34] <cradek> Jymmm: I built a rubidium-based atomic clock for a clock collector - first I've dealt with atomic standards
[03:22:44] <cradek> they aren't too expensive on the secondary market
[03:22:56] <Valen> isnt rubidium just a more accurate crystal?
[03:23:04] <cradek> no, it's an atomic standard
[03:23:44] <cradek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubidium_standard
[03:24:07] <cradek> extremely likely it's what runs the gps satellites
[03:24:21] <Jymmm> Valen: here ya go... http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_5&products_id=471&zenid=643d0238922c8d42e16eb66c6218af5b
[03:24:37] <atom1> it'll just more accurately help you keep track of all the time you waste
[03:24:39] <Valen> Jymmm: that wont tell you anything
[03:25:03] <Valen> they use non radioactive cesium in clocks as i recall
[03:27:08] <bzzzz> um. don't cesium clocks depend on cesium decay?
[03:27:16] <Jymmm> yep
[03:27:19] <bzzzz> doesn't cesium decay constitute radioactivity?
[03:27:25] <bzzzz> (by definition)
[03:27:29] <Valen> decay isnt oscilation
[03:27:41] <Valen> A caesium standard or caesium atomic clock is a primary frequency standard in which electronic transitions between the two hyperfine ground states of caesium-133 atoms are used to control the output frequency. They are one of the most accurate types of atomic clock. The first caesium clock was built by Louis Essen in 1955 at the National Physical Laboratory in the UK
[03:27:54] <Valen> note "electronic transitions"
[03:28:16] <Jymmm> http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp50/primary-frequency-standards.cfm
[03:29:36] <Valen> you will note there is no mention of decay there
[03:29:48] <Valen> decay is a "perfectly" random occourance
[03:30:03] <Valen> infact the best random number generators are based on radioactive decay
[03:30:51] <Jymmm> Yes, I know... http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/
[03:31:10] <Valen> (14:27:08) bzzzz: um. don't cesium clocks depend on cesium decay?
[03:31:10] <Valen> (14:27:16) Jymmm: yep
[03:32:28] <jdhNC> I do a lot of counting of radioactive decay (a lot from cesium sources), the randomness makes it difficult to spec hardware for it
[03:32:32] <bzzzz> yeah, cs clks got nothing to do with decay
[03:32:44] <bzzzz> just re-read that wiki entry
[03:32:55] <Jymmm> jdhNC: "spec hw" ?
[03:33:02] <Jymmm> http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/hardware3.html
[03:33:15] <jdhNC> getting counters fast enough
[03:33:42] <Jymmm> jdhNC: all cached afaik
[03:33:48] <jdhNC> might only be an aggregate 100k samples/sec, but some come really close together
[03:35:29] <Jymmm> iirc jepler was toying with RAM for RNG source, I still like the Cesium aspect
[06:43:25] -!- logger[psha] [logger[psha]!~loggerpsh@] has joined #emc
[06:50:32] -!- nullie [nullie!~nullie@dhcp249-250.yandex.net] has joined #emc
[06:52:06] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[06:55:25] -!- Valen has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[07:10:37] -!- Techrat has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[07:23:59] -!- Techrat [Techrat!~TRat@unaffiliated/techrat] has joined #emc
[07:24:14] -!- capricorn_one has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[07:51:53] -!- Dannyboy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[07:59:15] -!- roberth_ [roberth_!~robert@5ace70bc.bb.sky.com] has joined #emc
[08:07:29] -!- mhaberler [mhaberler!~mhaberler@imac.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #emc
[08:09:28] -!- WalterN has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[08:11:20] -!- mozmck has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[08:13:00] -!- mozmck [mozmck!~moses@client-] has joined #emc
[08:43:05] -!- awallin [awallin!~quassel@2001:708:110:1020:224:7eff:feda:7c7d] has joined #emc
[08:58:35] -!- mhaberler_ [mhaberler_!~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #emc
[09:28:04] -!- psha has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[09:50:43] -!- mozmck has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[10:06:52] -!- mozmck [mozmck!~moses@client-] has joined #emc
[10:08:01] -!- Seeyah [Seeyah!~Seeyah@] has joined #emc
[10:08:07] <Seeyah> hi all
[10:08:17] <Seeyah> i have a problem with digital outputs on EMC2
[10:09:15] <Seeyah> the HAL configuration shows that my pin 9 is high, but when I connect a multimeter it doesn't give a voltage
[10:10:30] <mhaberler> a bit more detail than 'my pin 9' would help - parport?
[10:11:29] <Seeyah> yes pin 9 on my second parport
[10:17:33] <Seeyah> EMC shows me that the pin is high but when i measure it with my meter, it doesn't give anything
[10:20:38] <mhaberler> same hardware as first parport? first parport pin9 works?
[10:21:32] <Seeyah> first parport is onboard, second is additional PCI card
[10:22:04] <mhaberler> does your port 2 have pullup resistors? try an 1kohm resistor from pin9 to +5v and try again
[10:23:38] <Seeyah> i just configured it on the first parport and it works there
[10:23:57] <mhaberler> try the pullup
[10:24:00] <Seeyah> what do you mean by pullup resistor?
[10:24:57] <Seeyah> oh i see
[10:25:18] <mhaberler> it might be an open collector hardware
[10:31:26] <alex_joni> did you make sure you have the right port address?
[10:31:31] <alex_joni> do inputs work on this parport?
[10:32:02] <Seeyah> yes it works
[10:32:11] <Seeyah> it is like mhaberler says
[10:32:22] <alex_joni> ok
[10:32:22] <Seeyah> i have to put in a pullup resistor
[10:32:28] <Seeyah> thx for the help
[10:32:31] <mhaberler> sure
[10:38:27] -!- Miljonair [Miljonair!~Seeyah@] has joined #emc
[10:38:44] <Miljonair> another quick question, when i start up EMC, my Z-axis shows a value of 18 instead of 0
[10:39:03] -!- Seeyah has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:39:06] <Miljonair> i use steppingmotors
[10:39:36] <jthornton> after homing?
[10:40:37] <mhaberler> read up about the .var file and retained positions
[10:40:40] <Miljonair> no before homing
[10:40:50] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_User_Concepts.html#r1_5_3
[10:42:11] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #emc
[10:43:00] <Miljonair> oke, i fixed it in the var file
[10:43:03] <Miljonair> thanks
[10:43:46] <mhaberler> Well EMC will 'fix the .var file' for you next time you shutdown.
[10:44:22] <Miljonair> shut down the computer or shut down EMC?
[10:44:29] <mhaberler> emc
[10:45:09] <Miljonair> ok
[10:46:34] -!- i_tarzan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[10:47:06] -!- Miljonair has quit []
[10:48:00] -!- Vq has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[11:05:25] -!- Gurgalof [Gurgalof!~Gurgalof@m83-185-11-83.cust.tele2.se] has joined #emc
[11:10:43] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@ppp121-44-184-217.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #emc
[11:19:14] -!- psha has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[11:29:46] -!- izua has quit [*.net *.split]
[11:34:07] -!- izua [izua!~izua@unaffiliated/izua] has joined #emc
[11:48:01] -!- steves_logging [steves_logging!~Steve@wsip-70-168-134-18.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #emc
[11:59:32] -!- mozmck1 [mozmck1!~moses@client-] has joined #emc
[12:00:25] -!- mozmck has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[12:08:18] -!- skunkworks has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[12:10:52] -!- Valen has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[12:42:37] <jdhNC> any preference for climb vs. conventional for soft plastics?
[12:47:17] <atom1> we had disagreement on that earlier but i always try to climb when practically possible
[12:47:30] <archivist> climb can clear swarf better but requires strength and no play
[12:50:53] -!- skunkworks [skunkworks!447329d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #emc
[12:52:04] -!- Gurgalof has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[12:56:48] -!- Gurgalof [Gurgalof!~Gurgalof@m83-185-11-83.cust.tele2.se] has joined #emc
[13:05:22] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~chatzilla@216-41-156-49.semo.net] has joined #emc
[13:05:46] -!- i_tarzan [i_tarzan!~i_tarzan@] has joined #emc
[13:10:24] <jdhNC> would either give a better surface finish?
[13:28:06] <Jymmm> jdhNC: what plastic? what tooling?
[13:28:27] -!- servos4ever [servos4ever!~chatzilla@173-87-55-88.dr01.hnvr.mi.frontiernet.net] has joined #emc
[13:28:50] <jdhNC> HDPE, 2 flute 1/8" 15k rpm
[13:30:03] Tech_Talk is now known as Birdman3131
[13:30:26] <jdhNC> Material is 1/4", cutting in two passes. I tried a single flute, it melted stuff.
[13:31:05] <Jymmm> hang on
[13:31:46] -!- Gurgalof has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[13:33:19] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Tooling specifically designed for plastics, damn sharp (ask JT-Shop), worth the money... http://www.plasticrouting.com/
[13:34:44] <jdhNC> they say conventional
[13:34:53] <cradek> 15krpm 1/8 is about 500sfm. that seems way too fast for plastic
[13:35:23] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Buy the tooling from onsrud, you won't have any issues.
[13:35:30] -!- Gurgalof [Gurgalof!~Gurgalof@m83-185-11-83.cust.tele2.se] has joined #emc
[13:35:38] <cradek> what feed are you using? seems you should be at like 100 ipm
[13:35:40] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #emc
[13:35:49] <jdhNC> 30ipm
[13:38:10] <cradek> that means you are trying to make .001 thich "chips" of plastic
[13:38:17] <cradek> you are rubbing, not cutting.
[13:38:38] <cradek> I suspect you need to get your speed down and/or your feed up
[13:38:54] <jdhNC> I just pulled the 30 out of the air
[13:39:02] <cradek> either that or lots of flood coolant to keep it from melting while you rub it
[13:39:41] <jdhNC> I'll try 50ipm tonight and/or drop the speed
[13:40:26] <cradek> you have to be very bold to cut plastic :-)
[13:40:43] <cradek> make big fat chips
[13:40:54] <cradek> can you use a bigger end mill?
[13:41:07] <jdhNC> it's not much of a machine, I'm hesitant to push it too hard
[13:41:14] <jdhNC> I could do 1/4"
[13:41:33] <jdhNC> or really anything with a 1/8 or 1/4 shank
[13:41:44] <cradek> 1/4 will give you much better chip clearance
[13:42:35] <Jymmm> Just get the Onsrud cutters, you'll save yourself a lot of grief and headaches
[13:42:36] <jdhNC> I tried a .22" 2-flute wood bit, it cuts pretty cleanly but makes a helluva mess
[13:42:51] <Jymmm> Clean cuts, no metlback
[13:43:13] <skunkworks> Jymmm: stock in the company? ;)
[13:43:18] <cradek> I have used the 1-flute onsrud and I agree with Jymmm that it makes a big difference
[13:44:09] <jdhNC> I guess I was moving the 1-flute I tried too slow. It works well on harder acrylic stuff
[13:44:21] <Jymmm> I dont do metals, I do plastics. Been there, done that.
[13:44:26] <cradek> http://www.plasticrouting.com/srchresults.asp?page=Material&material=HDPE+%28High+Density+Polyethylene%29&company=Compression+Polymers&color=Red%2FWhite&submit1=+Search+
[13:44:38] <cradek> look at their speeds/feeds
[13:44:52] <cradek> 50-300 ipm at your speed
[13:45:59] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I wish.
[13:46:06] <jdhNC> the actual material is King Plastics Marine Polymer... they even have it listed.
[13:47:24] <jdhNC> they list 1 and 2 flute cutters for it, 100 for single, 50 for 2. $23 for a single bit vs. $10 for my 5-pack of cheap chinese bits.
[13:47:48] <jdhNC> I ended up using a 2-flute endmill from mcmaster
[13:47:59] <kb8wmc> psha: I did get the webcam installed on the 2.5~pre version but my intention is to use this on my son's machine, I am trying to keep everything as simple as possible, so I will have to wait until 2.5 is released...
[13:48:02] <cradek> probably totally worth it
[13:48:15] <kb8wmc> good morning cradek
[13:48:37] <Jymmm> jdhNC: what PN?
[13:49:01] <jdhNC> 63-725, 63-775
[13:58:19] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Look at: 65-012 http://www.onsrud.com/xlink/xtdlkSearchClassesProdLst
[14:00:11] <Jymmm> Good for: SW.HW.CW.SP.HP.SSP.A
[14:01:51] -!- mrsunshine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[14:02:13] <Jymmm> Soft wood, Hard Wood, MDF, Soft Plastic, Hard Plastic, Solid Surface, Aluminum
[14:03:58] -!- archivist has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[14:03:58] -!- the_wench has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[14:06:12] <Jymmm> jdhNC: http://www.onsrud.com/xlink/xlProductDetail&xlProductDetail_xcrit1=65-012
[14:07:01] <Jymmm> jdhNC: That photo is not correct
[14:17:22] -!- archivist [archivist!~archivist@host81-149-189-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #emc
[14:20:10] <JT-Shop> and they (Onsrud) are sharp little buggers...
[14:20:27] <Jymmm> ...just ask JT-Shop's finger
[14:20:36] <JT-Shop> it's over it now :)
[14:21:00] <Jymmm> bout time, took forever to heal.
[14:31:57] <psha> kb8wmc: you may grab packages from buildbot
[14:32:25] -!- pjm [pjm!~pjm@host81-146-71-253.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net] has joined #emc
[14:32:33] <psha> kb8wmc: it's clean way to try out new version
[14:33:47] <kb8wmc> psha: thank you...appreciate it
[14:35:38] -!- pjm__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[14:35:40] <psha> i'm askink since eslavko' configs are popular but they are over complicated
[14:36:15] <kb8wmc> for me, the simpler the better...
[14:37:23] <psha> so if you want to get same functionality i may help you to get it other way
[14:37:50] <kb8wmc> I would certainly appreciate that psha....
[14:38:26] <kb8wmc> what do I have to do?
[14:39:01] <psha> first you need eslavko config up and running ;)
[14:39:15] <psha> then we'll strip unneded parts away
[14:39:27] <kb8wmc> I have it up and running
[14:39:36] <psha> cool
[14:39:53] <psha> so first - you may replace halui mdi-commands with one's from gladevcp
[14:40:36] -!- sarariman_seb [sarariman_seb!~seb@] has joined #emc
[14:40:45] <kb8wmc> where do I obtain the buildbot, if that is where it comes from?
[14:42:16] <awallin> here? http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/~buildmaster/
[14:42:30] <kb8wmc> thank you awallin
[14:43:06] <sarariman_seb> you don't need the ~buildmaster any more, just use http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[14:43:34] <kb8wmc> going there also...thank you
[14:44:56] <kb8wmc> very good, I have never been at these sites before
[14:47:30] <psha> you have to add extra line to your sources.list for it
[14:48:18] <psha> bbl, dinner time
[14:48:42] <kb8wmc> rgr that, working on adding line right now
[14:52:09] -!- reyjuanca_ [reyjuanca_!~reyjuanca@10.Red-83-54-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #emc
[14:52:29] <reyjuanca_> hola
[14:53:16] -!- cjdavis [cjdavis!~cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #emc
[14:53:41] -!- cjdavis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[14:54:06] -!- cjdavis [cjdavis!~cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #emc
[14:54:12] -!- reyjuanca_ has quit [Client Quit]
[15:07:50] -!- Gurgalof| [Gurgalof|!~Gurgalof@c80-216-110-25.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #emc
[15:07:55] -!- Gurgalof has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[15:08:19] -!- Gurgalof| has quit [Client Quit]
[15:17:03] <psha> kb8wmc: success?
[15:19:18] <kb8wmc> I just got back in, I had to feed the animals so I thought I would do it while you were at lunch
[15:19:38] <kb8wmc> but yes, I got the file in the sources list
[15:19:42] <psha> nice
[15:22:30] -!- capricorn_one [capricorn_one!~capricorn@zima.linwin.com] has joined #emc
[15:24:30] -!- Poisonfibre has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[15:26:17] -!- packrat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[15:27:40] -!- micges [micges!~ddd@cfd205.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #emc
[15:29:12] -!- packrat [packrat!~packrator@99-67-225-40.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #emc
[15:38:25] <mhaberler> question on G96 Constant Surface Speed mode - is that for lathe mode only, or mills as well?
[15:39:13] -!- EDocTooR [EDocTooR!~EDocTooR@69-165-138-132.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #emc
[15:39:27] <jdhNC> I'm not sure I can bring myself to pay $30 for cutting plastic that already consumes income.
[15:39:36] -!- nullie has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[15:39:40] <jdhNC> but, I'm really big on impulse buys
[15:39:54] <jdhNC> which is why I have no Mesa cards
[15:40:05] <awallin> mhaberler: only lathes I would guess...
[15:40:43] <mhaberler> methinks too, tool diameter is obviously not considered when it's updated
[15:41:03] <cradek> mhaberler: constant surface speed is only useful on lathes, because if the tool is spinning, the radius of cut doesn't change
[15:41:05] <mhaberler> just x offset
[15:41:33] <mhaberler> point taken ;-)
[15:44:55] <kb8wmc> psha: I have done the upgrades, all seems to be working properly but have not thoroughly checked it out
[15:45:14] <psha> and axis reports it's version as 2.5.0~pre?
[15:46:59] <psha> and eslavko's gladevcp panel for camview is working?
[15:53:02] <kb8wmc> psha: yes sir, reports 2.5~pre and camview is working
[15:56:17] <psha> so now let's start simplifying eslavko setup
[15:56:33] <kb8wmc> ok....I believe I am ready
[15:56:45] <psha> first stage is to replace halui MDI_COMMAND's with GladeVcp MDICommand actions
[15:57:04] <kb8wmc> rgr
[15:57:48] -!- mrsun [mrsun!~mrsun@c-bc3de253.4551536--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #emc
[15:58:18] <kb8wmc> FYI, most all of this is new to me
[15:58:41] <kb8wmc> but, I am attempting to learn
[15:58:48] <psha> it's ok ;)
[15:59:00] <psha> MDICommand actions have not noticed in the wild ;)
[15:59:04] <psha> you'll be first one ;)
[15:59:41] <kb8wmc> gulp!
[16:00:13] -!- mrsunshine [mrsunshine!~mrsunshin@c-bc3de253.4551536--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #emc
[16:01:44] <psha> so
[16:01:46] <psha> open glade
[16:01:59] <psha> add thee MDI command actions
[16:03:31] <kb8wmc> glade is opened, but I have not as yet set any preferences as I have not used it
[16:04:18] -!- mhaberler_ has quit [Quit: mhaberler_]
[16:04:23] <psha> open togle-caa.ui with glade
[16:04:33] <psha> i guess it would not ask about prefs then
[16:05:00] <kb8wmc> rgr, will open togle*
[16:06:30] <kb8wmc> opened and ready
[16:09:07] -!- the_wench [the_wench!~the_wench@host81-149-189-98.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #emc
[16:09:53] <psha> the_wench: hi
[16:10:02] <psha> kb8wmc: find MDI action
[16:10:08] <psha> it's in EMC Actions section
[16:10:12] <psha> in left column, bottom
[16:10:26] <psha> one with gears
[16:10:40] <psha> Action, not ToggleAction
[16:11:42] <kb8wmc> I have found the EMC actions gears
[16:13:26] <psha> place 3 of them
[16:13:41] <psha> actions are non-visible widgets so just click on them 3 times
[16:14:24] <kb8wmc> done
[16:14:54] <psha> give them some same names
[16:15:26] <kb8wmc> for example???
[16:16:31] <psha> for functions 'camstore', 'camcenter3' and 'camcenter4'
[16:16:49] -!- mrsun has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[16:18:27] <kb8wmc> done
[16:21:01] <psha> then add O calls in them
[16:21:30] <psha> MDI_COMMAND=o<_camcenter3>call
[16:21:51] <psha> so 'o<_camcenter3> call' will go into camcenter3 mdi action
[16:24:31] <kb8wmc> done, btw, that is the letter "o" correct? and not a zero?
[16:26:03] <psha> it's O-call
[16:26:33] <kb8wmc> rgr
[16:26:40] -!- psha has quit [Read error: No route to host]
[16:27:04] -!- psha [psha!~psha@] has joined #emc
[16:27:12] <kb8wmc> wb psha
[16:27:27] <psha> reconnect....
[16:27:55] <Jymmm> CONNECT... 9600 BAUD
[16:29:50] -!- EDocTooR has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[16:32:00] * JT-Shop will be glad when the day comes that loading bar stock into the lathe does not include Open Garage Door, Go Outside, Insert Stock, Close Garage Door
[16:39:06] <psha> kb8wmc: done with O-calls?
[16:40:31] <kb8wmc> yes, finished with O-calls
[16:41:29] <psha> now you need to hook them to buttons
[16:41:33] <psha> go to button
[16:42:06] <psha> and select proper action in Action field
[16:42:15] <psha> i need to check how it's named in english
[16:42:31] <kb8wmc> rgr
[16:42:32] <atom1> in reply to an earlier post today: http://www.plasticrouting.com/article.asp?F_ID=13
[16:42:33] <psha> 'Related Action'
[16:44:02] <atom1> seems climb cutting for metalworking, conventional for wood and plastic could go either way
[16:46:45] <kb8wmc> I am not finding anything labeled 'Related Action'...
[16:51:21] <archivist> JT-Shop, it should be an auto loader too
[16:52:56] <psha> on button
[16:52:58] <psha> not on action
[16:53:08] <psha> click on hal_button1
[16:53:20] -!- nullie [nullie!~nullie@nullie.telenet.ru] has joined #emc
[16:53:47] <kb8wmc> the hal_button1 that was renamed?
[16:54:28] <psha> hal_button1 was not renamed as i remember, action was renamed
[16:54:53] <kb8wmc> ok, you are correct, my mis-understanding
[16:55:08] <JT-Shop> archivist: I am the auto loader :)
[16:55:16] <archivist> hehe
[16:55:33] <kb8wmc> I found what I believe are HAL buttons on left side under HAL Python, is this correct?
[16:55:38] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-104-26-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #emc
[16:55:48] * JT-Shop thinks we can just copy this today and have a tutorial for gladvcp :)
[17:00:20] <psha> no
[17:00:21] <psha> on right
[17:00:25] <psha> you don't need to add one
[17:00:36] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S0106009027972e37.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #emc
[17:00:48] <psha> kb8wmc: proble is that you don't see panel ;)
[17:00:57] <psha> since there is not top level window...
[17:01:01] <psha> i thin i've to fix that
[17:01:20] <kb8wmc> rgr
[17:06:33] -!- awallin has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[17:11:53] -!- mhaberler_ [mhaberler_!~mhaberler@macbook.stiwoll.mah.priv.at] has joined #emc
[17:15:26] -!- micges has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[17:17:56] <atom1> JT-Shop what type of lathe do you have?
[17:19:28] <JT-Shop> Hardinge CHNC and Samson gear head manual
[17:27:50] <atom1> does anyone here happen to know the mfg or pn for the 20pin plug on an itx psu?
[17:28:03] <atom1> i need some of that series but a different pin count
[17:28:44] <atom1> they are keyed with an opposing square and D shape
[17:29:19] <atom1> they might be amp but i'm not sure. i'm searching the digikey catalog
[17:29:42] <IchGuckLive> green and grey may start the power !
[17:32:30] <IchGuckLive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-ITX
[17:33:23] <nullie> it's probably ATX connector
[17:33:44] <nullie> 20-pin Molex Mini-fit Jr.
[17:34:07] <IchGuckLive> yes it is the standart ATX
[17:34:43] <IchGuckLive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molex_connector#Motherboard_power_connector_.28Molex_Mini-fit_Jr..29
[17:36:26] <atom1> http://media.digikey.com/photos/Molex/39-01-2061.jpg
[17:36:30] <atom1> that looks close
[17:36:33] <atom1> i need the mating part
[17:36:41] <atom1> which should be easy to find
[17:40:44] <atom1> thanks
[17:41:58] <IchGuckLive> NP
[17:47:14] -!- newbynobi [newbynobi!~norbert@p4FC9AA76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[17:50:45] -!- nullie has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[17:54:00] -!- IchGuckLive [IchGuckLive!~chatzilla@95-89-104-26-dynip.superkabel.de] has parted #emc
[17:58:00] -!- cv [cv!cv@cpc2-sgyl2-0-0-cust1271.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[18:18:03] -!- cjdavis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[18:18:39] -!- cjdavis [cjdavis!~cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #emc
[18:19:54] -!- micges [micges!~ddd@cfd205.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #emc
[18:27:52] -!- i_tarzan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[18:35:32] <bzzzz> anyone know if it's ridiculous to expect to get 1800 rpm from a typical 200 step-per-turn motor?
[18:36:11] <skunkworks> your torque is going to be all but zero
[18:36:34] <skunkworks> do you have a torque curver for your steppers?
[18:36:44] <cradek> 12 kHz step rate if only half stepping
[18:36:48] <bzzzz> yeah, but i'm driving a gear pump, not a cnc table...any difference?
[18:36:54] -!- pjm has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[18:36:59] <cradek> what's a gear pump?
[18:37:20] <bzzzz> cradek: http://www.aaaco.com/images/PositiveDisplacementPics/External%20Gear%20Pump.gif
[18:37:30] <bzzzz> skunkworks: lemme check out the curver, thanks for the suggestion
[18:37:42] <cradek> oh like an oil pump
[18:37:52] <cradek> a stepper can't possibly be the right hammer to hit that nail with
[18:37:57] <bzzzz> D:
[18:38:22] <bzzzz> i feel stupid now. what would you do, cradek?
[18:39:07] -!- pjm [pjm!~pjm@host81-146-71-253.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net] has joined #emc
[18:39:11] <cradek> run it with a plain old 17xx rpm AC motor of appropriate size
[18:39:26] <bzzzz> so, something like a vfd?
[18:39:56] <cradek> no, get a single phase motor, plug it in to the wall, and forget about it
[18:40:39] -!- tom3p [tom3p!~tomp@74-93-88-241-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #emc
[18:40:41] <cradek> you get that 17xx rpm fixed speed for free from the most common kind of motor
[18:40:54] <skunkworks> do you need it variable speed? waht is the app?
[18:41:17] <ds3> unless you are not on 60Hz power ;)
[18:42:21] <JT-Shop> then get a 50Hz motor
[18:43:18] <ds3> that gives you a different speed
[18:43:24] <ds3> the 17xx figure is 1800-slip
[18:43:28] <ds3> 1800 is from 60Hz
[18:48:15] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnABuOOoi5w
[18:48:47] <cradek> LONG AGO IN A GALAXY FAR AWAY
[18:49:28] <skunkworks> heh
[18:50:14] <skunkworks> I don't quite know what I am looking at. Does the rotory axis have an extra encoder on it?
[18:50:16] <skunkworks> out the back?
[18:50:25] <cradek> seems like
[18:51:02] <skunkworks> ah 18000cpr
[18:51:03] <cradek> encoder on the table instead of the motor I guess
[18:51:05] <skunkworks> wow
[18:52:04] <skunkworks> cradek: have you gotten around to any 4th axis playing?
[18:52:15] <cradek> no, it works but I've never cut anything on it yet
[18:52:19] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andy2@cpc2-basl1-0-0-cust1037.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[18:52:24] <cradek> which is silly
[18:52:30] <skunkworks> heh
[18:53:18] <skunkworks> although - I would think you could just machine that cam in 1 motion..
[18:53:35] <skunkworks> maybe not.
[18:55:28] <skunkworks> ok - not
[18:55:32] <cradek> not as trivial to program, but I think I agree
[18:55:51] <cradek> you wouldn't always be at Y=0, you would have to move to where you're tangent to the cam
[18:55:53] <skunkworks> with a larger endmill - maybe
[18:56:03] <archivist> I was expecting a finist cut in one to clean up
[18:56:09] <archivist> finish
[18:57:35] <archivist> those rotaries dont have 0 backlash so dunno how he dealt with that, unless adjusted over tight
[18:58:53] -!- rooks [rooks!~rooks@102-bem-18.acn.waw.pl] has joined #emc
[19:01:09] <andypugh> Generating cams for any roller radius =/= cutter radius is non-trivial.
[19:09:53] -!- i_tarzan [i_tarzan!~i_tarzan@] has joined #emc
[19:20:01] <JT-Shop> so to cut the cam in one pass the center of the cutter has to be on center for the radius at that point... is that possible without under cutting with the leading edge?
[19:22:04] <cradek> for a typical cam yes - pretty sure they are convex shapes
[19:29:32] <andypugh> It depends on the shape of the follower too.
[19:35:01] -!- micges_ [micges_!~ddd@cff199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #emc
[19:37:58] <toastydeath> that's a weird way to mill a cam
[19:38:27] <archivist> slot cutter could stay tangential
[19:38:41] -!- micges has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[19:46:01] <toastydeath> that's generally how cams were milled, on the radius of the cutter
[19:46:01] <toastydeath> rather than with an endmill, on the end
[19:57:30] micges_ is now known as micges
[20:10:11] <andypugh> What's the link?
[20:11:10] -!- odiug [odiug!~guido@pD9F71795.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #emc
[20:20:54] -!- psha has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[20:21:41] -!- skunkworks has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[20:32:25] -!- acemi [acemi!~acemi@unaffiliated/acemi] has joined #emc
[20:33:10] -!- MattyMatt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[20:33:32] <tom3p> cradek do you think vismach would allow tool objects to be exchanged? http://imagebin.org/145569
[20:33:33] <tom3p> Just asking wether I should pursue this visualization any further
[20:33:35] -!- MattyMatt [MattyMatt!~matt@cpc4-birk6-0-0-cust799.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #emc
[20:34:59] <tom3p> i got the impression the tool had to be in the hierarchy, and that changing tool changed one 'parent'
[20:35:40] -!- pjm__ [pjm__!~pjm@host81-146-71-253.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net] has joined #emc
[20:38:27] -!- pjm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[20:49:29] <Jymmm> 3D CAD/CAM http://www.collabcad.com/featuresCollabCAD.html
[20:51:36] <cradek> tom3p: I've used a simulation that showed differing tool lengths (cylinder with length controlled by a hal pin) for testing complex kinematics
[20:52:01] <cradek> I'm not sure about the answer to your exact question though
[20:54:22] <tom3p> thanks, you have modified the look of the tool, great.
[20:54:24] <tom3p> I was looking at exchanging one tool from a rack for another tool in the rack
[20:54:57] <tom3p> and the example vismach files are a tree of objects, and the initial parent object is the tool.
[20:55:15] <cradek> I understand what you mean
[20:55:18] <tom3p> changing the parent seemed difficult
[20:55:39] <tom3p> but may not be the way to make the visulaization
[20:55:50] <cradek> yeah, I'm not sure
[20:55:53] <tom3p> visualization
[20:56:13] <tom3p> np thnks for the tip on changing the appearance
[20:56:13] <cradek> the rack moves with the table, seems like you could offset "parts of the rack" to stay "in" the spindle if you tried - but yuck
[20:56:58] <tom3p> the rack moves with the table AND slides in & out ( like X U )
[20:57:15] <cradek> ah - why does it have to move that way?
[20:57:41] <tom3p> the idea is to have it occupy part of the work envelope only for a short time, like over the wkpc
[20:57:55] <tom3p> later the entire work envelope is available for cutting
[20:58:04] <cradek> oh I see, clever
[20:58:09] <cradek> it's usually in the inaccessible area
[20:58:11] <tom3p> cheap :)
[20:58:17] -!- Techrat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[20:58:31] <tom3p> thx
[20:58:33] -!- tom3p [tom3p!~tomp@74-93-88-241-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has parted #emc
[20:58:38] -!- tom3p has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[20:59:56] -!- odiug has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
[21:01:02] -!- acemi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
[21:01:07] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,8288/catid,20/limit,6/limitstart,0/lang,english/
[21:04:58] <cradek> have you reproduced a problem with g61?
[21:05:45] <JT-Shop> I have not, I'm asking what version he is using but the last post suggested that someone has modified the source code for his machine
[21:05:54] <cradek> the backplot won't show perfect corners, but halscope will
[21:06:11] <JT-Shop> I keep telling him to ignore the screen :)
[21:06:32] <cradek> need screenshots of halscope running the simplest gcode that shows the problem (and the gcode) ideally
[21:06:41] <JT-Shop> ok
[21:07:26] <cradek> (or, one of us could test it)
[21:07:48] <JT-Shop> I don't even know what version he is running atm
[21:08:01] <cradek> yeah that's important
[21:08:40] <cradek> please remind me later if I need to look into it
[21:08:46] <JT-Shop> will do
[21:21:15] -!- Techrat [Techrat!~TRat@unaffiliated/techrat] has joined #emc
[21:37:58] <JT-Shop> my VMC happily mills a 3/8" wide slot with a 1/2" end mill LOL
[21:38:15] -!- newbynobi has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
[21:39:54] <JT-Shop> cradek: "It is a slightly modified EMC2. I am already in touch with the programmer..." :/
[21:45:33] <andypugh> Was that the chap who wanted to change laser intensity without interfering with motion?
[21:48:39] <JT-Shop> could be he is a laser guy
[22:02:04] <TekniQue> btw, I found something out today
[22:02:11] <TekniQue> might be a bug, maybe not
[22:02:23] <TekniQue> but if you execute a M3 command without an RPM parameter
[22:02:32] <TekniQue> it doesn't turn the spindle on
[22:08:11] -!- tlab [tlab!~tlab@c-69-243-187-136.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #emc
[22:08:32] -!- uwe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[22:21:43] -!- mhaberler has quit [Quit: mhaberler]
[22:21:44] mhaberler_ is now known as mhaberler
[22:26:03] -!- mhaberler has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[22:49:19] -!- tlab has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[22:53:08] <micges> TekniQue: it is known
[22:53:30] <TekniQue> luckily it didn't break my tool!
[22:53:54] <micges> :)
[22:54:11] <TekniQue> I was trying out isolation routing
[22:54:20] <TekniQue> with Eagle and pcb-gcode
[23:07:52] <andypugh> I thought that spindle speed was "sticky" inside G-code, but not MDI?
[23:08:35] <andypugh> Can't say I have ever checked.
[23:10:48] <morficmobile> the realization i was supposed to make sure all parts i ordered have to fit into the existing panel, when i clearly recall a "if it doesn't fit, we make a new one" is a tough one :>
[23:13:00] <andypugh> OK, I just checked and spindle speed is sticky inside G-code.
[23:13:42] <andypugh> And in MDI too. I am using version 2.6 though.
[23:14:23] <TekniQue> andypugh: ok I'm using 2.4
[23:14:49] <andypugh> Well, as 2.5 isn't out yet, that is normal. :-)
[23:14:49] <TekniQue> and the program didn't set the speed at all
[23:15:16] <TekniQue> my speed control isn't interfaced with the computer
[23:16:29] <andypugh> So what's the complaint?
[23:16:56] <andypugh> Ah, I see what you mean. M3 with S=0?
[23:16:58] <TekniQue> that an M3 command issued in the G-code to turn the spindle on
[23:17:03] <TekniQue> without an S parameter
[23:17:14] <TekniQue> doesn't turn the spindle on
[23:17:50] <andypugh> M3 when S=0 doesn't turn the spindle on.
[23:18:02] <andypugh> That's not quite the same thing.
[23:18:33] <andypugh> You could set S1 at the beginning of the file, then M3 would toggle the switch as you want.
[23:18:54] <TekniQue> yeah, it makes sense
[23:19:05] <TekniQue> to let S=0 mean off
[23:19:26] <andypugh> I think that there is a way to run G-code at startup. Put S1 (or S100000000, for fun) in there and you should be OK in future.
[23:20:14] <TekniQue> I turned the spindle on with the manual control before I executed the script
[23:20:43] <andypugh> Here you are.... http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BRS274NGC%5D-section
[23:21:23] <TekniQue> very good
[23:30:35] -!- roberth_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[23:30:48] -!- micges has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[23:44:58] -!- andypugh [andypugh!~andy2@cpc2-basl1-0-0-cust1037.basl.cable.virginmedia.com] has parted #emc
[23:51:22] -!- Gurgalof [Gurgalof!~Gurgalof@m80-170-96-44.cust.tele2.se] has joined #emc