#emc | Logs for 2011-03-23

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[00:27:54] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
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[07:59:29] <maximilian_h> I just wanted to say that on the linuxcnc.org front page 2.4.4 is listed as the latest available release
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[13:42:16] <Paragon39> Hello All Could someone help me in identifying carbide lathe inserts? I have some inserts but the identifcatin label is a little tatty...* denotes unreadable, The first shows DCMM 11 T3 04*52, DCMM 3(2.5) 1-52 , 435 P35 and then what looks like a part number 6N41*820
[13:43:03] <Paragon39> I guess what I am seeking is what the above information denotes... Thanks!
[13:46:03] <Paragon39> I also have sdjcr 1212 F11 but I think this pertains to the tool holder!?
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[13:53:47] <Paragon39> Think I may have found what I am looking for ... http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
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[14:02:22] <archivist> !wench learn carbide codes is http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
[14:02:22] <the_wench> I have learnt carbide codes is http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
[14:04:31] <Paragon39> I have a two diamond tip insert one has 435 P35 and the other has 415 P15 what does this show?
[14:05:04] <archivist> P35 is carbide itself
[14:05:35] <archivist> I know that from the sandvik data
[14:05:40] <Paragon39> archivist: type of material chemestry used?
[14:06:00] <archivist> sort of yes and also sintering
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[14:07:22] <archivist> I need to get some tips for a tool on my lathe
[14:07:53] <Paragon39> Oh ok... So the 435 and 415 numbers are the measurments? 4= 12mm 3=4.76mm Thick and 5=2mm radius ... does that seem about right?
[14:08:46] <Paragon39> Thats occording to the link I posted above.
[14:10:06] <Paragon39> Mmmm don't think ive done that right...
[14:12:15] <Paragon39> the radius on the 415 is larger than that of the of 435... but other that that they appear to be the same dimensions.
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[14:13:20] <archivist> I google the part number that often turns up the makers so you can properly identify
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[14:14:50] <Paragon39> they are sandvik but the labelling is worn.
[14:16:56] <JT-Work> what link?
[14:17:00] <archivist> the sandvik docs are good once you learn to navigate them
[14:17:37] <Paragon39> archivist: Docs located on there site?
[14:17:55] <archivist> yes large pdf's though
[14:18:17] <Paragon39> Ill take a look ... Thanks for the pointer...
[14:20:18] <archivist> 22mb for the general turning pdf
[14:23:21] <archivist> http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/
[14:23:37] <archivist> I have the catalogue open here now :)
[14:24:16] <Paragon39> archivist: on the site but can't see the link for the catalogue!
[14:25:12] <archivist> they dont allow deep linking otherwise I would have put you in the right place, take the online catalogue link you will see the downloads
[14:25:32] <Paragon39> Think I have found it...
[14:26:10] <Paragon39> General turning tools 21.55Mb
[14:27:14] <archivist> thats the one
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[14:37:46] <archivist> I have an old year 2000 dead tree version too and a general one from 1980
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[15:50:57] <kb8wmc> psha: I compiled emc2 v. 2.5~pre, and installed camview...I have a couple of warnings relating to my video camera, but all is working as it should be...I have a question for you if you the time...
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[15:53:59] <psha_> kb8wmc: sure
[15:54:04] <kb8wmc> psha: what is the purpose of the re-parent patch, where does it get installed, and is it necessary if I have camview working?
[15:54:27] <psha_> kb8wmc: reparent patch is left only for historical reasons
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[15:54:38] <psha_> that was first attempt to allow using camview in axis
[15:54:55] <psha_> http://psha.org.ru/b/camview-emc.html
[15:55:02] <kb8wmc> aha....ok, not necessary then...
[15:55:05] <psha_> here is 'official' docs about it
[15:55:16] <psha_> if you are using packages from my repo you don't need anything
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[15:55:55] <kb8wmc> rgr that...and tnx...I assume the same applies to the "axisrc" file
[15:56:24] <kb8wmc> I am using the packages from your repo
[15:56:51] <psha_> axisrc clause only needed for 2.4 (and older) packages
[15:57:02] <psha_> 2.5 or git master already have reparent onboard
[15:57:08] <kb8wmc> rgr that....
[15:57:43] <kb8wmc> I looked for a log time for the LOGAPPEND patch for 2.4.x, but was never able to find it
[15:58:19] <psha_> hm, one by Slavko?
[15:58:30] <kb8wmc> yes
[15:58:51] <kb8wmc> it is mentioned in his docs, but I was never able to locate it
[15:59:29] <psha_> http://psha.org.ru/cgit/psha/emc2.git/commit/?id=155171
[15:59:31] <psha_> this one?
[15:59:35] <psha_> it's already in master
[15:59:57] <kb8wmc> ok
[16:00:02] <kb8wmc> will look
[16:00:21] <psha_> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=155171
[16:00:24] <psha_> this one maybe
[16:00:31] <psha_> (same in official gitweb)
[16:00:39] <psha_> and it's also in 2.5
[16:01:10] <kb8wmc> I have taken the liberty to re-write slavko's install docs for my own clarity...in case I have to repeat the install process
[16:02:42] <kb8wmc> there it is, your file contains the LOGAPPEND...
[16:03:04] <kb8wmc> I searched for a long time and never came up with anything...
[16:03:43] <kb8wmc> thank you much for your help and information
[16:03:46] <psha_> you want to use same routines to find center as he have?
[16:04:08] <kb8wmc> yes, I would like to use the same
[16:04:26] <psha_> if you are using recent gladevcp you don't need to use halui
[16:04:40] <psha_> since there is built-in g-code actions in it
[16:04:47] <kb8wmc> ok
[16:05:16] <psha_> also if you have at least basic knowledge of python it would be more simple to use python hooks to find center and not ngc ones
[16:05:51] <kb8wmc> the only instance of gladevcp I could locate was in the source of 2.5...I never found it separately
[16:06:25] <psha_> sure, it's tightly bound to emc so it's useless outside :)
[16:06:42] <kb8wmc> rgr...I will in time attempt to familiarize myself with python, but it will be some time before I commence
[16:07:41] <psha_> really it would be more simple then ngc based approach :)
[16:07:54] <psha_> since you don't need to use file, logappend and other strange stuff
[16:08:12] <psha_> just record positions to internal list and calc center based on them
[16:08:17] <kb8wmc> ah, ok, the simpler the better for me
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[16:46:14] <danimal_garage> hi
[16:49:39] <JT-Work> hi Dan
[16:50:18] <danimal_garage> Hi John
[16:50:26] <danimal_garage> how's the shop coming?
[16:50:52] <JT-Work> working on the wiring now
[16:51:01] <JT-Work> I have a lighting plan worked out finally
[16:51:27] <JT-Work> quad outlet on every stud I think LOL
[16:52:13] <danimal_garage> nice!
[16:52:41] <archivist> well worth having an excess of outlets
[16:52:46] <danimal_garage> yea
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[16:53:08] <danimal_garage> i have 4 every 6 feet, not enough
[16:53:22] <danimal_garage> i use a few 6 outlet strips
[16:53:51] <danimal_garage> how many lights?
[16:53:59] <JT-Work> I'm so tired of stepping on cords and hoses in my garage!
[16:54:12] <danimal_garage> same here
[16:54:15] <JT-Work> 16 4' two lamp T8 shop lights
[16:54:28] <danimal_garage> cool
[16:54:29] <JT-Work> will give me about 95 candle power
[16:55:02] <danimal_garage> i have 6 of those, but my shop is only a small 2 car garage
[16:55:07] <JT-Work> 4 switches, each one turns on one light per cluster so I have 25%, 50% 70% and 100%
[16:55:19] <danimal_garage> nice!
[16:55:41] <JT-Work> Andy gave me the idea the other day
[16:55:44] <danimal_garage> opps sorry 7
[16:55:58] <danimal_garage> i need a couple more
[16:56:04] <JT-Work> I got 6500K bulbs so plenty bright
[16:56:12] <danimal_garage> nice
[16:56:21] <JT-Work> Walmart sells them for $9.50 assembled
[16:56:27] <JT-Work> less the bulbs
[16:56:53] <danimal_garage> i got mine at homo depot for about the same
[16:56:58] <JT-Work> had to go to Homer Depot to get them for $2.50 each so about $15 per fixture
[16:57:13] <danimal_garage> pretty good
[16:57:18] <JT-Work> here they wanted $20 for the same fixture with bulbs
[16:57:28] <danimal_garage> wow
[16:57:35] <JT-Work> but bulbs were warm white or something like that
[17:02:09] <JT-Work> hows the quest for the sprocket magic machine?
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[17:04:39] <danimal_garage> havent had time to work on it, looking for encoders now for the mill
[17:04:58] <danimal_garage> any expernece with the ones from automation direct?
[17:07:08] <JT-Work> yes, I've used them before
[17:07:21] <JT-Work> I don't know of anything wrong with them
[17:07:42] <danimal_garage> i wonder if i should go with the light duty or ,edium duty
[17:07:49] <danimal_garage> medium*
[17:10:06] <danimal_garage> double the price for the mediums it looks like
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[17:14:12] <danimal_garage> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Encoders/Light_Duty_Standard_Shaft_(TRD-S_Series)/TRD-S2500-VD
[17:14:46] <MattyMatt> there was a box of 14 assorted went for $25 last week
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[17:15:19] <danimal_garage> that helps lol
[17:15:48] <awallin> if you are shielding them yourself from chips and coolant etc then you could go with the amt/cui ones
[17:16:35] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.com/14-USED-ENCODERS-/320664041592?pt=BI_Robotics
[17:16:39] <MattyMatt> $9.99 sorry
[17:16:52] <awallin> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=102-1307-ND
[17:17:09] <MattyMatt> and there was a neat nema17 5 phase with a 12 bit absolute
[17:17:12] <awallin> those are 24$ but no bearings, shaft, or protection
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[17:18:02] <JT-Work> danimal_garage: just depends on your needs as far as light medium etc
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[17:20:11] <JT-Work> light duty = dust proof, medium duty = splash proof...
[17:21:16] <JT-Work> rpm is a bit different as well
[17:21:57] <awallin> funny how everything costs more if it's made to handle cleaning by pressure-cleaner...
[17:23:00] <JT-Work> A heavy-duty encoder is the most rugged encoder you can buy. Top-of-the-line bearings allow a service life of 12 billion revolutions.
[17:24:00] <JT-Work> harder to make washdown items that spin
[17:24:22] <MattyMatt> for retrofittong isn't a bare endoce more useful than an encapsulated one?
[17:24:56] <awallin> some motors are made for the kit, they have the shaft sticking out at the back
[17:24:57] <JT-Work> hard to keep me from dropping something inside without some sort of cover
[17:25:29] <danimal_garage> i need waterproof so i'd have to make a cover for both i think
[17:25:41] <danimal_garage> it'll constantly drip coolant on it
[17:25:59] <danimal_garage> bbl
[17:26:54] <MattyMatt> I want to put a spindle encoder inside my headstock, but it's loads more work than I need to do
[17:27:11] <atom1> JT-Work i'd get the flourescents with the ballast in em
[17:27:24] <atom1> those cheap electronic ballasts aren't worth the hassle
[17:27:43] <MattyMatt> high frequency ballasts are good
[17:27:51] <atom1> on a humid day they won't light
[17:28:03] <MattyMatt> good for your eyes, and for power useage
[17:29:55] <JT-Work> atom1: too expensive yet
[17:30:07] <atom1> yeah the're a bit more
[17:30:13] <JT-Work> these fixtures are plug and play no wiring at all
[17:30:37] <atom1> i had some in the garage and took em out
[17:30:44] <JT-Work> if one fails you unhook the chains and let it fall to the floor getting unplugged in the process
[17:30:46] <atom1> the ones i put in originally are still working
[17:31:13] <MattyMatt> JT-Work sounds like a job for explosive bolts
[17:31:31] <atom1> put a function in emc for it
[17:31:53] <atom1> it may happen more often than you think
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[17:32:32] <JT-Work> if it does I'll switch tactics for now I have 4 till the shop is finshed
[17:33:00] <MattyMatt> these CFLs are so cheap here now. £0.50 for 5
[17:33:27] <MattyMatt> I need a source of cheap BC sockets
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[18:12:43] <cradek> matt!
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[18:38:45] <IchGuckLive> today the order from HK arrived after 52 Days of Shipping O.o
[18:38:54] <IchGuckLive> in Germany
[18:42:42] <awallin> did you have to pay VAT ?
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[18:49:08] <IchGuckLive> awallin: 34EDuros for 260- bill
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[18:49:50] <awallin> ok, in finland they check those quite often, so its 23% VAT + customs for orders from HK or USA :(
[18:50:30] <IchGuckLive> here to but 115 a month is free
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[19:08:12] <MattyMatt> are these things suitable for getting a MT1 drill arbor out of my tailstock? which JT size should I consider for MT1?
[19:08:46] <kirk_wallace> Hello. I'm on the avr32 chat, but I thought I'd ask here too. Way off topic but, what are .cof, .eep, and .lss files for avr? I'm trying to "make" a modbus slave demo.
[19:08:57] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Drill-Chuck-Removal-Wedges-J1-JT1-/360348387639
[19:09:42] <cradek> MattyMatt: you should be able to screw the tailstock all the way "in" to eject the MT
[19:09:50] <cradek> that's a built-in feature of tailstocks
[19:10:08] <MattyMatt> it's a drilling attachment, no screw
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[19:11:59] <cradek> hm, not sure then, I guess you should find the big diameters of JT1 and MT1 and see how they compare
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[19:13:57] <MattyMatt> I've started making my own from mild scrap, I'll finish & try them first
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[19:14:37] <cradek> I've had mixed success with that - they usually have to be harder than mild steel
[19:14:41] <cradek> they just squish otherwise
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[19:14:54] <cradek> you might get lucky though, MT1 is super small
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[19:36:46] <MattyMatt> I just tried putting a ring spanner under the chuck and tightening the chuck up. i was pretty brutal but it didn't budge. I gave up before I stripped the chuck threads
[19:43:51] <MattyMatt> or broke the cuck key I was hammering :)
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[19:52:22] <kirk_wallace> MattyMatt: Are you trying to tighten the chuck to an MT1 pin?
[19:54:28] <MattyMatt> trying to get the MT1 pin out of the stock
[19:55:13] <MattyMatt> it has no tang, and the stock has no slot for drifting it out
[19:56:27] <MattyMatt> a hardened pin under the screw at the tail end might do
[19:57:21] <kirk_wallace> I have seen someone remove a tapered tool holder by placing a wood wedge between the tool holder and the spindle hosing, then backing the spindle against the wood until it popped loose. Might this apply?
[19:58:44] <kirk_wallace> Excessive amounts of heat, Mythbusters style, might do it to.
[19:59:11] <MattyMatt> not enough purchase for wooden wedges. a ring spanner fit nicely but no luck there
[20:02:48] <kirk_wallace> With MT1, I suppose you run the risk of bending something. Can you disassemble the spindle to where the taper holder and MT1 are the only parts left?
[20:03:04] <MattyMatt> yeah heat seems like a good option now. it needs a new paint job anyway :)
[20:03:07] <toastydeath> MattyMatt,
[20:03:22] <toastydeath> tap it with a hammer lightly
[20:03:28] <toastydeath> just sit there
[20:03:30] <toastydeath> tap tap tap tap tap
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[20:03:34] <toastydeath> hard faced hammer, though
[20:03:37] <toastydeath> not a deadblow or rubber mallet
[20:04:23] <toastydeath> most cnc lathes have a similar situation and the only way to get MT taper stuff out of them is to sit there and tap on it gently for like 2 minutes
[20:04:25] <MattyMatt> tapping the chuck key, with the spanner underneath? ?
[20:04:30] <toastydeath> you will eventually hear POP
[20:04:36] <toastydeath> and the taper can be removed by hand
[20:04:47] <toastydeath> ...maybe i don't understand what you are doing
[20:05:02] <toastydeath> you have an mt1 soemthing?
[20:05:13] <MattyMatt> without the chuck in, there's only 1/8" of the mt1 showing
[20:05:19] <andypugh> Found a new use for an Arduino. There is a device on our new car which outputs PWM, which is measured digitally by the ECU. Unfortunately there is an input filter which means that it can't actually cope with the PWM frequency. 10 lines of Arduino code and I have a PWM frequency changer (250Hz to 30Hz)
[20:05:32] <toastydeath> MattyMatt, tap anywhere on the mt1 thing
[20:05:44] <toastydeath> not on a chuck or any key
[20:05:48] <toastydeath> whatever is mt1 and stuck
[20:06:01] <toastydeath> on the side, not the face
[20:06:32] <toastydeath> if this doesn't apply to your situation (i am having a hard time visualizing it) sorry
[20:06:45] <andypugh> Where is this MT thing?
[20:06:56] <MattyMatt> the only access I have is the front (tapping will just bed it harder) or via the bore at the back, and I already tapped that for ages through a screwdriver
[20:06:57] <cradek> we need a picture!
[20:07:10] <toastydeath> no no dude
[20:07:21] <toastydeath> i am talking about the front
[20:07:39] <toastydeath> http://www.twiddla.com/509889
[20:07:44] <andypugh> How big is the bore at the back?
[20:08:11] <kirk_wallace> toastydeath: Sort of like breaking ball joint tapers by hammering the spindle arm where the tapered hole is?
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[20:08:52] <MattyMatt> 1/8" or slightly more. it's tapped for the drilling lever
[20:09:11] <toastydeath> kirk_wallace, i dunno, i've never done that
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[20:09:28] <toastydeath> the vibration from the hammer taps breaks the taper free after about a minute
[20:09:34] <toastydeath> I can do it in 15-30 seconds now
[20:09:40] <toastydeath> it takes practice, weirdly enough
[20:09:49] <andypugh> kirk_wallace: No, in this case you are tapping the taper, in the balljoint case you rap the socket.
[20:10:28] <toastydeath> this also works with stripped screws
[20:10:34] <toastydeath> my co-worker showed me once
[20:10:40] <toastydeath> he used one mighty slam of the hammer
[20:10:43] <toastydeath> and the screw came right out
[20:10:49] <andypugh> To get any force down a 1/8 hole you need a hardened drift.
[20:11:02] <toastydeath> or fill it with oil
[20:11:12] <toastydeath> and put a 1/8" pin in it
[20:11:15] <toastydeath> and hit the pin
[20:11:29] <andypugh> Yeah, put a grease nipple in the hole, and apply a 10,000psi grease gun.
[20:12:01] <kirk_wallace> Watch were you point it.
[20:12:25] <toastydeath> that is another co-worker trick
[20:13:16] <kirk_wallace> I saw a tire changer spray the guy next to him with soap when setting a bead.
[20:13:27] <andypugh> That oil-and-drift thing works for bushes in blind holes too.
[20:16:19] <MattyMatt> sweet got it out a strange way. I tried the hanging ring on the end of an adjustable spanner under the chuck, and when I turned it it took the chuck with it until it tightened itself out out
[20:17:27] <kirk_wallace> I've loosened motorcycle screws by tapping straight on top of the head. I closes the philips socket a little so the screw driver fits tight too. Then I replace with an Allen socket head.
[20:18:07] <MattyMatt> yeah that was a common trick on triumphs
[20:18:18] <andypugh> A centre punch, hammered in then tapped tangentially can also work.
[20:18:45] <andypugh> In fact: http://www.bodgesoc.org/fastners.faq
[20:21:11] <MattyMatt> I should make myself a plain tailstock for the dead centre. my drilling attachment is hardly high precision anymore, if it ever was
[20:21:24] <andypugh> That FAQ used to mirror Apple OS version numbering, so must have been last edited about 1994.
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[20:27:23] <MattyMatt> when torx were only found on airplanes :)
[20:28:00] <andypugh> Aye. I no longer hold the same opinion about the difference between screws and bolts, either.
[20:28:42] <MattyMatt> that's what I was taught. fulley threaded = machine screw
[20:29:23] <andypugh> I actually think that it is more a matter of usage than design. Bolts go into nuts, screws into tapped holes.
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[20:31:52] <MattyMatt> that's a fair distinction, but usage obviously varies. they're all bolts if they have straight threads, to most people
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[20:47:15] <cradek> I think common usage here is a screw is a thing that's tightened with a screwdriver (or similar)
[20:47:36] <cradek> bolt is tightened with a wrench/spanner
[20:48:10] <cradek> lots of screws have tapered threads - wood screws, drywall screws, sheet metal screws, etc
[20:48:27] <Jymmm> Has anyone ever made a dispenser for small parts that load/unload from the machine?
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[20:48:58] <cradek> I've used a wire mesh basket to catch parts as they are parted off
[20:49:16] <MattyMatt> nope but a robot gripper seems like the "proper" way
[20:49:16] <cradek> (otherwise they just got lost in swarf)
[20:50:24] <Jymmm> I need to load Pet ID tags into the laser, turrent style then possibley turn over too.
[20:51:00] <Jymmm> sorta like those vending machnes you see in pet stores.
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[20:51:16] <cradek> I think they pull the top blank off a spring-loaded stack
[20:51:25] <cradek> like the springy plate dispensers at the buffet
[20:51:47] <Jymmm> Yeah, I undertand, that's fine (no scratching)
[20:52:11] <Jymmm> but how do you grab ONE then flip it over?
[20:52:18] <cradek> flipping sounds hard
[20:52:33] <cradek> how about do all the fronts, then you put them back in the dispenser upside-down
[20:52:44] <Jymmm> Mind you it's laser - no physical contact other than the grip
[20:52:45] <cradek> no reason you have to do front/back/front/back
[20:53:12] <Jymmm> Too much handling doing that way
[20:53:22] <cradek> how many do you make at once?
[20:53:23] <JT-Shop> Jymmm that's what I do for a living... want a quote?
[20:53:50] <Jymmm> cradek: I'm looking at 100-5000, mostly single sided, some double sided.
[20:54:08] <cradek> handling the stack of them twice doesn't seem too onerous
[20:54:30] <Jymmm> Multiple colors, so I wanted to load tubes of each color
[20:54:36] <cradek> hm
[20:54:41] <cradek> more requirements = harder
[20:54:49] <cradek> I'd ask JT-Shop
[20:54:58] <fragalot> PEW PEW PEW
[20:55:00] <Jymmm> Eh, he's asleep
[20:55:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: OH, you're awake, I'll be damn ;)
[20:55:29] <JT-Shop> ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[20:55:34] <Jymmm> SOB!
[20:56:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: sure, quote me
[20:56:13] <JT-Shop> how are you wanting to load them on a dial or down a tube?
[20:56:29] <JT-Shop> by hand?
[20:56:46] <Jymmm> Stacking in tubes seems reasonable
[20:57:39] <andypugh> Vacuum lifter?
[20:57:45] <JT-Shop> I use if you can a set of release cogs for lack of a better word and come up to a position 1 below and release the stack, it stops so one is on the pick up effector....
[20:58:17] <JT-Shop> or as andy suggests from the top if your pick up is of variable lenght
[20:58:57] <JT-Shop> you could put them in a carousel like old slide projectors
[20:59:02] <danimal_garage> can anyone think of a reason why i should go with a 2500ppr encoder vs a 1000ppr? i doubt my machine is accurate to worry about .0002" anyways
[20:59:07] <JT-Shop> just depends on the volume you have to do
[20:59:08] <Jymmm> I'm not sure if vacuum would work as two might stick together
[20:59:36] <JT-Shop> are they oily? or some other reason that they stick together?
[20:59:51] <MattyMatt> danimal_garage: would you be counting them through the parport?
[21:00:13] <JT-Shop> Dan, just do the math to make sure you can read the pulses at full speed and get as many as you can
[21:00:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: VERY flat, so if high humidity, might make them stick together like sheets of glass sometimes do
[21:00:59] <fragalot> can't you blow compressed air between the top 2 when you lift it up to prevent sticking?
[21:01:07] <Jymmm> anyhow... lets forget the stickness for a moment
[21:01:16] <JT-Shop> and you don't want to slide them like a Pez dispenser?
[21:01:31] <andypugh> I was imagining a table of pockets with one in each, then a big flat lifter with pockets in is pllonked on top, vacuum-transfer all the discs to the top one, flip it over and swap the trays.
[21:01:34] <fragalot> sliding might scratch them
[21:01:42] <JT-Shop> only if they are dirty
[21:01:48] <fragalot> true
[21:01:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I might, would have to test a large stack.
[21:01:56] <andypugh> What are they made of?
[21:02:02] <Jymmm> al
[21:02:08] * fragalot has a fun project for his industrial year at uni
[21:02:10] <JT-Shop> we feed 0.010" thick shims that way every 5 seconds on a machine
[21:02:38] <Jymmm> What about orientation of the hole?
[21:03:01] <JT-Shop> our ring feeders use magazines where the rings are preloaded and you just swap out magazines
[21:03:09] <JT-Shop> are they round?
[21:03:15] <Jymmm> some are, yes.
[21:03:32] <JT-Shop> those cost more to tool up :)
[21:04:19] <danimal_garage> $60 price difference
[21:04:31] <danimal_garage> ouch
[21:04:36] <MattyMatt> would 2 lasers be cost effective rather than a flipper?
[21:04:44] <JT-Shop> we orient the crank on an engine by turning a spring loaded key a couple of turns
[21:05:06] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: no
[21:06:01] <andypugh> Bah! Pity you are not using steel: http://www.magsy.cz/en/page/170.separation-of-metal-sheets/
[21:06:59] <MattyMatt> pez dispenser off the bottom of a stack works fine for coin dispensers
[21:07:16] <JT-Shop> you could use a magnetic variable flux coil connected to a plasma coupling to separate them
[21:07:17] <MattyMatt> maybe a few scratches tho
[21:07:40] <Jymmm> Hmmm, maybe vacuum pickup might work, if I can spin it to align orientation
[21:08:24] <JT-Shop> they make pneumatic rotates or you could use a stepper and a laser to "find" the hole
[21:08:40] <JT-Shop> laser sensor
[21:08:42] <Jymmm> optical interupter is what I was thinking
[21:08:50] <JT-Shop> that too
[21:09:02] <JT-Shop> through beam
[21:09:24] <MattyMatt> or plonk it down on a vacuum bed and use a camera to locate & orient it it and lase it where it sits
[21:09:51] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: AWESOME, show me the demo machine of it working =)
[21:09:53] <andypugh> Not a bad plan, there are some very clever vision systems out there.
[21:10:28] <cradek> can you just cut them out of a sheet and avoid the whole problem?
[21:10:34] <JT-Shop> vision is a PIA even the clever ones don't seem to stay on line long
[21:10:34] <Jymmm> no
[21:10:53] <JT-Shop> don't they come prepunched and anodized
[21:10:59] <Jymmm> yep
[21:12:22] <andypugh> I did a course learning to set up the Keyence vision system. I was very impressed (and that was 10 years ago). We programmed it so you could throw a handful of change under it (overlapping) and it would tell you the total.
[21:14:55] <MattyMatt> what about a touch probe?
[21:15:19] <Jymmm> for?
[21:15:27] <toastydeath> touchin' and probin' stuff
[21:15:29] <JT-Shop> Keyence has some nice products and are proud of them :)
[21:16:18] <Jymmm> I'd rather KISS
[21:16:31] <MattyMatt> locating the tags on the bed (I'm imagining 100 laid out roughly in a grid by hand) and then looking for the hole to determine the angle
[21:16:43] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Too proud to give them away, that's for sure
[21:16:53] <JT-Shop> aye
[21:17:09] <andypugh> Just hang the tags on pegs
[21:18:13] <JT-Shop> they are the only ones that make a measurement probe small enough to measure the compression release tab on a lawnmower cam after grinding and it cost us (OEM) over $800 for that little sucker
[21:18:16] <Jymmm> too much handling
[21:19:20] <Jymmm> back in a while
[21:21:48] <MattyMatt> lawnmower engines wear flat caps in this country
[21:28:23] <JT-Shop> ?
[21:29:01] <JT-Shop> fun fact the Worlds largest small engine manufacturer is 20 miles from my house :)
[21:37:13] <fragalot> company I work for now made a weed spray system that you can mount on anything that moves w/ a camera that detects weeds and only sprays those automatically, leaving your crops unaffected
[21:37:17] <fragalot> :D
[21:37:28] <JT-Shop> nice
[21:37:56] <MattyMatt> if it's that smart, why spray? it could pull them up
[21:38:05] <fragalot> speed?
[21:38:48] <MattyMatt> does that matter if it's unattended? (therefore unwaged)
[21:39:02] <fragalot> I'm working on a prototype for a new spray gun driver for 'm now ^_^
[21:39:06] <MattyMatt> I guess this goes on a manned tractor tho
[21:39:15] <fragalot> MattyMatt: either on a tractor or a quad
[21:44:58] <danimal_garage> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Sensors_-z-_Encoders/Encoders/Medium_Duty_Hollow_Shaft_(TRD-N_Series)/TRD-NH2500-RZVWD
[21:45:02] <danimal_garage> i just ordered those
[21:45:24] <danimal_garage> i'm going with a belt drive on my mill, reducing it 3:2
[21:45:53] <danimal_garage> the encoder will go on the ball screw pulley, completely bypassing the quadrature output of the drives
[21:46:16] <danimal_garage> so no more missed counts due to flakey drives.
[21:46:24] <fragalot> what about missed counts due to latency
[21:46:34] <danimal_garage> and hopefully faster acceleration and maybe higher velocity
[21:46:51] <danimal_garage> fragalot, the issue was in the drives
[21:47:45] <danimal_garage> they produce a quadrature output from the resolvers on the motors, which can be flakey
[21:48:36] <MattyMatt> 2400rpm max, is that enough?
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[21:49:36] <danimal_garage> hmm didnt see that
[21:49:52] <MattyMatt> that's from the 100khz max
[21:49:56] <danimal_garage> oh
[21:50:18] <danimal_garage> 480ipm
[21:50:25] <JT-Shop> Dan call them up, they are good to work with
[21:50:53] <danimal_garage> will do, thanks
[21:50:56] <JT-Shop> but they ship fast...
[21:51:13] <fragalot> amazon sure doesn't
[21:51:21] <fragalot> they said they'd send me my SOG S66 today
[21:51:25] <MattyMatt> actually quadrature means 9600rpm will give 100khz square waves
[21:51:30] * fragalot glares
[21:52:07] <atom1> ok, someone here made a rotary axis using an R8 collet and posted some pics or vid of it. care to refresh my memory?
[21:52:21] <danimal_garage> wait so it's good to 9600rpm?
[21:52:28] <danimal_garage> thats plenty
[21:53:00] <MattyMatt> dunno about mechanically, but it'll give a good signal to 9600 afaics
[21:53:30] <danimal_garage> 400ipm is about the max i'll hit anyways, best case scenario
[21:54:11] <danimal_garage> 480ipm is 2400rpm
[21:54:34] <MattyMatt> looks good then
[21:55:48] <MattyMatt> that looks close to my entire budget for cncing my lathe :)
[21:56:10] <MattyMatt> ballmouse where art thou
[21:56:56] <MattyMatt> I got some 5 phase steppers+drivers today. these will probably go on the lathe
[21:57:22] <danimal_garage> nice
[21:58:30] <MattyMatt> they are a bit small. I'll need to restore the lathe's smoothness if these are going to move it
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[21:59:09] <MattyMatt> or I might just make a new X & Y and move the headstock over when it's running
[22:00:03] <MattyMatt> by then I'll probably go the whole hog and make a new head too
[22:00:17] <danimal_garage> encoders ordered
[22:00:27] <danimal_garage> nice! sounds involved
[22:00:38] <MattyMatt> yeah this little lathe is too small and worn to be worth converting, if I'm honest
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[22:12:35] <andypugh> atom1: You aren't thinking of my ER32 collet?
[22:13:07] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Got £550?
[22:13:36] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOXFORD-ACL-CNC-LATHE-/150580147903
[22:13:45] * fragalot snipes it
[22:14:16] <andypugh> Reading between the lines, he gave up when he found Mach couldn't do servos.
[22:14:54] <fragalot> lol
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[22:17:25] <atom1> andypugh, i'm not sure
[22:17:30] <atom1> got a pic of it?
[22:18:02] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4
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[22:19:16] <atom1> where did you get the collet tube?
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[22:19:43] <andypugh> eBay
[22:20:31] <atom1> would what you got be suitable configured as a spindle?
[22:20:38] <atom1> set up different of course
[22:20:51] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ER32-20MM-100L-Straight-Collet-Chuck-CNC-Milling-Lathe-/270636773292
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[22:21:04] <fragalot> andypugh: last one like that that I had to make I milled it out tooth by tooth using a centre drill (because I had nothing else at my disposal xD)
[22:21:27] <fragalot> in a chrome alloy steel,...
[22:21:52] <andypugh> I see no reason why it couldn't be a spindle. They are available with lots of different diameters, so you can choose one to suit the tradeoff you need of bearing speed and load rating.
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[22:24:02] <andypugh> atom1: http://shop.ebay.co.uk/onlineseller68/m.html?_nkw=ER32-100L&_sacat=0&_odkw=ER32+100L&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3911.c0.m270.l1313
[22:24:31] <andypugh> He does them with 1" and 1.25" and 32m dia too. The big ones would make a seriously strong spindle.
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[22:25:00] <atom1> yeah
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[22:27:30] <andypugh> I meant 32mm. 32m would be too heavy.
[22:27:51] <atom1> i read it that way
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[22:38:00] <danimal_garage> then you need a bigger machine
[22:38:09] <danimal_garage> like skunkwork's
[22:38:33] <danimal_garage> even then, 32m might be a big big
[22:39:24] <andypugh> It's considered stylish to wire everything in pink, isn't it?
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[22:42:45] <Valen> andypugh: provided *all* the wires are pink its ok
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[23:05:50] <MattyMatt> yow, that boxford is nice
[23:07:54] <MattyMatt> is that an automatic chuck?
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[23:13:05] <MattyMatt> hmm no. D spindle is a kind of camlock?
[23:14:54] <MattyMatt> andypugh I have the 550, but the chuck, the turret, the milling attachment, the pc and the mesa card would all stretch me
[23:16:01] <andypugh> I have a lathe with a mill on top. It isn't a great combination.
[23:16:22] <andypugh> Lathe saddles make poor milling tables.
[23:16:28] <MattyMatt> it is for mass production of gears and toothed pulleys :)
[23:16:32] <atom1> a friend got one of those after i advised against it
[23:16:40] <atom1> i'm not sure he's ever really used it
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[23:17:47] <MattyMatt> my plan is to have a slantbed with the miller riding on a separate saddle on the bed rails
[23:17:52] <andypugh> I am thinking that mine is nearly finished enough to sell. If it was out of the way, I would probably buy that Boxford.
[23:18:26] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Ah, that becomes a lathe with live tooling. That's different.
[23:19:32] <MattyMatt> the bed rails, is that X on a lathe?
[23:20:35] <andypugh> Z
[23:20:45] <MattyMatt> ah cool, that's most logical
[23:20:52] <andypugh> Parallel with the spindle axis is Z.
[23:20:58] <mikegg> there's a sweet used swiss machine on ebay for $5000
[23:21:16] <mikegg> somebody gutted it for controller parts... not sure what's left
[23:22:08] <mikegg> http://cgi.ebay.com/Tsugami-Model-S-25-5-Axis-CNC-Swiss-Type-Screw-Machine-/400039796685?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d243adfcd
[23:22:35] <mikegg> i dunno, I think that's a prime candidate for a refurb
[23:22:56] <andypugh> Hmm, found this, looking for it. looks potentially useful: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MADAULA-P01500030-6000RPM-SWISS-TYPE-LATHE-HEAD-1-1-NEW-/350354628500
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[23:24:16] <mikegg> i don't get it, does that hold a part, or a tool?
[23:24:32] <andypugh> I think it is a piece of live tooling.
[23:24:35] <mikegg> ok
[23:24:48] <andypugh> Fixed-angle (adjustable) right-angle drive. I might be wrong.
[23:25:34] <DaViruz> looks like a fine piece of.. whatever it is :
[23:25:40] <mikegg> looks like it would hold like a slotting mill or something
[23:26:40] <andypugh> Yes, certainly the best one of (whatever it is) I have ever seen.
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[23:29:55] <MattyMatt> would the boxford be worth fixing up just for fun & profit, do you think?
[23:30:40] <MattyMatt> ah, I don't have the spare space, time or capital for that
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[23:32:03] <andypugh> If it wasn't in Tayside....
[23:32:06] <MattyMatt> I have enough to proceed with last year's plan, only properly this time
[23:33:21] <andypugh> OK, night all.
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