#emc | Logs for 2011-03-21

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[07:52:55] <mrsunshine__> me wants a dovetail cutter
[07:55:37] <mrsunshine__> ofc, bolt on dovetails could be made without one but feels very flimsy :P
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[11:40:59] <mhaberler> logger[mah]: hello
[11:40:59] <logger[mah]> mhaberler: Log stored at http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc/2011-03-21.html
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[15:57:57] <TekniQue> I got to realise today how good EMC is
[15:58:16] <TekniQue> tried to use a Boxford CNC router
[15:58:25] <TekniQue> and the software that comes with it is just awful
[15:58:36] <TekniQue> it cannot read normal G-code files
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[15:59:27] <TekniQue> it's got a CAM program built in
[15:59:43] <TekniQue> and you need to export your design in DXF
[15:59:50] <TekniQue> and colour in the areas you want to mill
[16:07:27] <toastyde1th> lol
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[16:07:34] <toastyde1th> that's certianly ridiculous
[16:07:55] <toastyde1th> but not all that uncommon for fringe controls
[16:08:22] <cradek> if that was always exactly the operation you wanted to do, it sounds like a good way to present it
[16:08:57] <cradek> but if you want to do lettering or something, it sounds pretty useless
[16:14:06] <TekniQue> well, not being able to use normal CAD software is retarded, there's no better way of putting it
[16:14:45] <toastyde1th> a lot of machinists who buy machines like that are transitioning from manual machining
[16:14:51] <TekniQue> and there's also no way to step the process or to enter manual maneuvers to verify clearance, etc
[16:15:05] <TekniQue> err, normal CAM software
[16:15:55] <TekniQue> what I wanted to do was to machine some pockets inside of a bowl
[16:16:19] <TekniQue> but the software expects the material to be a rectangular block
[16:16:33] <TekniQue> and does not let me specify my own safe Z, etc
[16:56:40] <TekniQue> ok I sent the manufacturer some hate mail, asking if there is any way to import G-code since their software uses some bastardized G-code internally
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[17:04:46] <anonimasu> how am I supposed to find the right resistor for my thc? (I cant measure the hf start voltage)
[17:08:03] <archivist> TekniQue, upgrade to emc!
[17:09:41] <archivist> TekniQue, I have done a boxford for somebody, it was reasonably easy to do
[17:12:15] <TekniQue> the boxford has some PLC
[17:12:21] <TekniQue> communicates with the PC over RS232
[17:12:38] <TekniQue> archivist: do you know what protocol it uses?
[17:12:43] <TekniQue> or did you just replace the PLC
[17:12:50] <TekniQue> and rewire it
[17:13:18] <ds3> does this boxford have a mini CRT that expects you to enter things in step by step?
[17:13:25] <archivist> I connected the PC's parallel port to the internal stepper drives
[17:14:14] <archivist> so yes I bypassed the internal control
[17:14:35] <ds3> archivist: that sounds a lot like Denford's stuff
[17:15:22] <archivist> Denford and Boxford are near each other and one person left boxford to start the other company
[17:15:29] <archivist> iirc
[17:15:55] <ds3> OHHHHH
[17:16:15] <archivist> I have a Starturn lathe which had a cruder internals, I just connected to stepper drives there too
[17:16:29] <ds3> in that case, gutting it seems ideal
[17:16:43] <ds3> I am slowly refitting a denford myself
[17:17:07] <TekniQue> archivist: ah, so it had discrete stepper drivers
[17:17:22] <TekniQue> not something built into the PLC
[17:17:30] <TekniQue> I haven't looked inside it
[17:17:41] <ds3> it may have a step and direction stepper controller inside
[17:17:52] <archivist> TekniQue, yup it had SGS stepper modules in the one I did
[17:18:22] <TekniQue> nice
[17:18:27] <ds3> archivist: does your starturn use whitworth fasteners?
[17:18:36] <archivist> 3"x4"x1" ish bricks on the pcbc
[17:19:17] <archivist> ds3, metric I think, the spindle nose is anyway
[17:19:58] <archivist> not changed any screws so just used the ones existing
[17:19:59] <ds3> archivist: it uses a threaded on spindle nose?
[17:20:05] <archivist> yes
[17:20:22] <ds3> interesting... mine has a similiar setup to the import 9x20's
[17:20:32] <archivist> I made a backplate for a 4 jaw hence measuring it
[17:20:34] <ds3> i.e. 3 studs, no threads
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[17:20:59] <archivist> later are probably imports
[17:21:20] <ds3> it is reasonably well built and dates back to the 70's
[17:21:43] <ds3> I would like to know what lathe is the parent of all the 9x20's
[17:22:51] <archivist> starturn when I got it working http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_09_10_Starturn/P1010041.JPG
[17:26:43] <TekniQue> since we're on the subject of CAD/CAM
[17:27:00] <TekniQue> is there any decent CAM software available for linux?
[17:27:07] <Dreiselfift> anonimasu: the resistor value is one that will give you full scale with your full scale plasma voltage (this is in the THCAD manual)
[17:27:09] <Dreiselfift> for HF start I would have a minimum of 20 KV voltage rating (this likely means 4 or 5 5 KV resistor in series)
[17:27:38] <TekniQue> I'm using cambam right now, on my Windows laptop
[17:27:58] <archivist> TekniQue, heekscnc is becoming usable for some people
[17:28:03] <TekniQue> it would be handy if I could have something similar running right on the machine that controls the router
[17:28:27] <ds3> archivist: what's the capacity (swing/length)?
[17:28:56] <archivist> ds3, not a lot, its tiny
[17:29:16] <ds3> archivist: more then a sherline or in that range?
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[17:29:57] <archivist> and any capacity quoted is a lie due to the light motor and high cross slide
[17:31:06] <archivist> its a struggle to use a drill chuck in the tailstock
[17:32:06] <ds3> got it
[17:32:26] <toastyde1th> so like
[17:32:39] <ds3> but at least it should allow you to creat wax and foam hemispheres with easy, right? :D
[17:32:39] <toastyde1th> does anyone know about the safety of taking down a fence put up with nails
[17:32:41] <toastyde1th> with a chainsaw
[17:33:05] * bill20r3 is scared of chainsaws.
[17:33:24] <toastyde1th> my dad told my brother to take our fence down using the chainsaw
[17:33:35] <toastyde1th> and he's lucky in that he hit and a nail and it just dulled the blade
[17:33:49] <toastyde1th> I was under the strong impression it was a no no to cut wood with nails in it
[17:34:01] <toastyde1th> mind you my dad has never used a chainsaw in his life, i am the one who uses it
[17:34:57] <bill20r3> sounds like a good way to ruin the blade(s) anyway
[17:35:32] <toastyde1th> it is
[17:35:36] <toastyde1th> it's also a bore cut
[17:35:42] <toastyde1th> which my brother doesn't know how to do
[17:35:58] <toastyde1th> basically someone who doesn't know how or when to use a chainsaw told someone else who doesn't know how or when to use a chainsaw, to use a chainsaw
[17:36:16] <archivist> lock it up
[17:36:17] <bill20r3> I'm going to go ahead and suggest that he not use a chainsaw. :-)
[17:37:16] <toastyde1th> my dad is a huge tool when it comes to this
[17:37:33] <ds3> use a small axe
[17:37:35] <toastyde1th> i was dropping a tree last fall and he insisted it was going to fall on the house
[17:37:36] <archivist> TekniQue, ds3 the boxford I eventually upgraded to emc for someone http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2003/2003_01_23_Clockworks/P1010014.JPG
[17:37:52] <toastyde1th> and he rigged the most dangerous thing i've ever seen
[17:38:18] <toastyde1th> fortunately the tree hit the branch i put in the ground as a marker for where it would fall and nothing came of it
[17:38:50] <ds3> archivist: ER collets?
[17:40:16] <TekniQue> archivist: ah, the one at the university is a A3HSRi
[17:40:18] <TekniQue> http://www.boxford.co.uk/boxford/docs/products/productimg/cncrouter/A3HSRi2.gif
[17:41:07] <TekniQue> not a bad machine really, except it has no coolant pump
[17:41:18] <TekniQue> the software ruins it though
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[17:54:24] <archivist> ds3, no it has a modded 15 size international taper in the mill I think
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[18:14:29] <fragalot> Jymmmm: http://ompldr.org/vN3duNw/vacuum_top.jpg This is what I had in mind for the top (the holes on the sides are for inserting pegs - forgot to change the depth of those
[18:18:29] <fragalot> that said.... MDF is porous.. Could I not just put the MDF on there without holes to hold the pcb down? xD
[18:21:12] <toastyde1th> you'd need a very strong seal
[18:21:34] <toastyde1th> because you'd reach a good vacuum, but wouldn't have enough flow to deal with leakdown
[18:22:14] * fragalot starts wondering if he should just say "sod it", and find something he can thread properly to put clamps on the table
[18:22:31] <fragalot> no hassle w/ vacuum pumps, seals, etc..
[18:25:57] <TekniQue> my own machine has a 20mm aluminum plate that has threaded holes on a 30x30mm grid
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[18:26:40] <fragalot> yeah..
[18:27:05] <IchGuckLive> O.o
[18:27:12] <fragalot> I woner if my machine 'l cut alu or not :/
[18:27:30] <IchGuckLive> try to mill chees first
[18:27:31] <fragalot> fixed 28k rpm, 6mm 4 flange end mill
[18:27:47] <TekniQue> 28k sounds a bit high for 6mm
[18:27:52] <TekniQue> in alu
[18:27:55] <fragalot> yeah
[18:28:08] <TekniQue> the problem with alu is that it's soft and sticky
[18:28:16] <fragalot> I know
[18:28:16] <TekniQue> it grabs the mill
[18:28:28] <fragalot> esp. low quality alu is hell
[18:28:55] <ds3> 10K is about the max for a 0.236 bit in Al (assuming carbide)
[18:29:05] <ds3> and flood ;)
[18:29:08] <toastyde1th> not all alum is difficult to machine
[18:29:15] <toastyde1th> it depends on the alloy
[18:29:20] <toastyde1th> 6061 is gummy, yes
[18:29:27] <fragalot> only cooling my machine has is me with an air gun
[18:29:28] <fragalot> :P
[18:29:44] <toastyde1th> if you run fast enough you don't need coolant
[18:30:15] <ds3> doesn't that lead to blue colored HSS bits? or incandscent carbide bits?
[18:30:29] <toastyde1th> not really, no
[18:30:32] <fragalot> iirc my machine tops out at ~200mm/min actual speed when configured for 800mm/min (doing gentle curves)
[18:30:41] <fragalot> ds3: not if done right
[18:30:48] <toastyde1th> HSS is a lot more sensitive, i'd stick to carbide
[18:31:05] <toastyde1th> but i've not had problems running and balls ridiculous speeds with hss as long as i paid attention to where i was putting the chips
[18:31:10] <toastyde1th> *at
[18:31:12] <IchGuckLive> Hss is good for Alu
[18:31:23] <IchGuckLive> carbide for duran ALU 900
[18:31:32] <ds3> toastyde1th: no coolant whatsoever?
[18:31:35] <IchGuckLive> that goes at max Speed
[18:31:35] <toastyde1th> ds3, none
[18:31:56] <toastyde1th> the chips liquify and come off in a nice stream
[18:32:01] <ds3> Oh
[18:32:05] <toastyde1th> and solidify before they hit anything
[18:32:13] <toastyde1th> zero weld up on the cutter, too
[18:32:19] <ds3> i.e. not for use in an open machine like a bridgeport w/modified high speed head?
[18:32:32] <ve7it> fragalot, https://picasaweb.google.com/113564857007954547097/Mar212011?feat=directlink I use this for pcb and engraving...
[18:32:41] <toastyde1th> oh jesus christ no
[18:32:48] <toastyde1th> do not do that with an unenclosed machine
[18:32:58] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP4sDX87JE8 Max speed
[18:32:58] <ds3> makes you wish there was an M code to close the doors ;)
[18:33:18] <toastyde1th> at school i would always crank a 5" facemill up to 6k rpm
[18:33:34] <toastyde1th> and just fling it through the material at like 120 ipm
[18:33:43] <toastyde1th> the sound drew a crowd
[18:33:45] <IchGuckLive> please Use Earsafty Tool for milling Aluminium !
[18:34:10] <ds3> toastyde1th: and you can remove the face mill cutter from the shank afterwards?
[18:34:14] <toastyde1th> yep
[18:34:23] <toastyde1th> the cutter doesn't get too hot
[18:34:33] <toastyde1th> the faster you go, the higher percentage of the heat goes into the chip
[18:34:40] <ds3> I see
[18:34:54] <toastyde1th> the trick is to just watch your chip load - aluminum wants .007 - .010 per tooth
[18:34:58] <toastyde1th> esp on a facemill
[18:35:12] <ds3> 0.007?! you must have lot's for HP's on that spindle
[18:35:16] <toastyde1th> shallow cuts
[18:35:33] <toastyde1th> going that fast feed wise, you can afford to take a lot of passes
[18:35:50] <ds3> still, that's thicker then aluminum foil from the store
[18:36:10] <toastyde1th> keep in mind the power requirement per volume goes up
[18:36:13] <toastyde1th> the smaller the chip is
[18:36:34] <toastyde1th> it starts to level out about .020 per tooth
[18:37:07] <ds3> I guess the rules are different if you are using 0.125 cutters that go plink at the blink of the eye
[18:37:07] <cradek> IchGuckLive: that machine spends half its time stopped for some reason - emc could run that tool path in half the time.
[18:37:27] <IchGuckLive> agree
[18:37:29] <toastyde1th> a .002-.005 chip load uses something like 15% more power
[18:37:42] <IchGuckLive> its the US HAAS VF2
[18:37:51] <toastyde1th> compared to a .010
[18:37:57] <toastyde1th> and also yeah, tiny cutters, not much you can do
[18:38:29] <toastyde1th> most people already try to cut with like 5% of the tool's diamter per tooth
[18:38:34] <toastyde1th> and that's really hard on the tool
[18:38:36] <TekniQue> toastyde1th: how shallow?
[18:39:03] <TekniQue> 0.020 per pass?
[18:39:06] <toastyde1th> the percent happens without depth consideration
[18:39:18] <toastyde1th> since depth is far more complicated than feed is
[18:40:00] <toastyde1th> realistically you should be able to go 1x the cutter diamter without too much problem for most cuts
[18:40:13] <toastyde1th> obviously not full slotting
[18:40:28] <toastyde1th> but as long as you have one side exposed, say 90% full diam with of cut
[18:40:37] <toastyde1th> *width
[18:41:22] <anonimasu> Dreiselfift: what's a good point to start at? I dont have any means to measure that mugh
[18:41:25] <anonimasu> much
[18:41:55] <ds3> let's say for a 1", 2F EM...what DoC for taking off 0.9 per pass?
[18:42:25] <toastyde1th> one inch, if the machine is good.
[18:42:27] <toastyde1th> the tool won't care
[18:42:46] <cradek> I cut .75 deep with a .75 rougher all the time
[18:42:47] <toastyde1th> you're machine limited
[18:43:07] <ds3> heh, that'd agree with my experiences
[18:43:17] <ds3> cradek: how many HP's available?
[18:44:17] * anonimasu sighs I dont get how to solve this
[18:44:23] <anonimasu> cutting voltage is 120v
[18:44:40] <cradek> ds3: I have more now, but I also did that a lot on my 2hp bridgeport
[18:44:53] <anonimasu> can I somehow kill off the hf if I stick a big damn restor and cut the overvoltage with a zener(or 10)
[18:45:25] <toastyde1th> a tight setup on a bridgeport can hog fairly well
[18:45:37] <anonimasu> not like a okuma
[18:45:41] <anonimasu> :D
[18:45:51] <toastyde1th> you may have to play with rpm a little bit if you are accidentally sitting on one of the harmonic frequencies of the machine
[18:45:54] <ds3> cradek: I see. the corn cob must be very helpful?
[18:46:13] <toastyde1th> ds3, corn cob works exactly how i was mentioning with the feed per tooth
[18:46:21] <anonimasu> dosent anyone have a remote clue what to do with supressing the hf start?
[18:46:32] <toastyde1th> they take a situation where a machine might normally only handle .005 and bump that up to .010 or .015
[18:46:43] <toastyde1th> which gives an apparent extra 10-20 percent hp
[18:46:46] <ds3> hmmm
[18:47:18] <toastyde1th> each tooth only takes out a fraction of the material, but the machine is feeding regardless
[18:47:34] <toastyde1th> building up more material for the next tooth to hit, without actually changing the volume/min removal rate
[18:48:12] <toastyde1th> also since chatter is a function of gain, the tooth length, vs cut depth (feed per tooth)
[18:48:43] <toastyde1th> you're also better off in that regard as well
[18:48:50] <cradek> anonimasu: nope
[18:49:07] <anonimasu> crap.
[18:49:09] <ds3> toastyde1th: is this information from experimenting or did some guy actually calculated the theoretical part of it?
[18:49:15] <toastyde1th> the latter
[18:49:25] <toastyde1th> which was later backed up by building experimental machines
[18:49:28] <toastyde1th> to verify the formulas
[18:49:33] <toastyde1th> I don't have the formulas anymore, though
[18:49:35] <anonimasu> do you think resistor + zener limiting it would work?
[18:49:36] <toastyde1th> they were above my head at the time
[18:49:50] <ds3> I see.
[18:50:08] <anonimasu> if I buy a 50W zener, and use that for clamping voltage and current limit it until the zener can handle it...
[18:50:21] <toastyde1th> boeing wound up using the formulas to build some kind of wing spar
[18:50:32] <toastyde1th> with a a foot long depth of cut on a skinny ass cutter
[18:51:04] <toastyde1th> by running the machine at exactly some rpm with some feed/depth ratio
[18:51:05] <ds3> hohoho
[18:51:18] <toastyde1th> it was like a .75" cutter, too
[18:51:27] <anonimasu> guess they tuned the feed to match the chatter
[18:51:32] <ds3> wouldn't it be faster for them to laser it with a huge YAG?
[18:51:43] <anonimasu> heat affected zones in wings?
[18:51:48] <anonimasu> no thanks
[18:52:01] <ds3> anneal it afterwards
[18:52:35] <toastyde1th> you can do it with mostly any machine using a block of rpm
[18:52:41] <toastyde1th> er, aluminum
[18:53:00] <toastyde1th> and then ramping the rpm up and noting where it chatters as you increase the depth of cut
[18:53:18] <toastyde1th> it's a bunch of harmonic asymptotes as rpm increases
[18:53:39] <toastyde1th> right after the point of peak chatter there's a lul where you can get insane depths of cut
[18:54:04] <ds3> unless spindle stalls or cutter breaks first ;)
[18:54:07] <anonimasu> well, two waves cancel eachother so that's pretty logical
[18:54:26] <anonimasu> if you match feed per tooth to the same frequency the cutter is ~ at
[18:54:57] <toastyde1th> in this case you're only investgating rpm
[18:55:28] <anonimasu> I think setting up a equation for it wouldnt be impossible
[18:55:44] <atom1> anonimasu you have some okumas?
[18:55:48] <toastyde1th> it's not, the problem is experimentally determining the dynamic stiffness of the machine itself
[18:55:59] <toastyde1th> once you do that, you're already 90% of the way there, without any equation
[18:56:14] <anonimasu> atom1: no, I saw some video of them removing more material then I thought were sane
[18:56:27] <toastyde1th> okuma makes good shit
[18:56:34] <atom1> yup
[18:57:06] <atom1> anonimasu, did you give up on learning that cam?
[18:57:30] <anonimasu> atom1: I decided I'm gonna just use the lathe part and go with mastercam for the other stuff since it seems that my post works very well now
[18:57:48] <atom1> did you ever post code from it?
[18:57:49] <anonimasu> it wont import my stuff that I draw at all as iges
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[18:58:01] <atom1> i bet the old one would
[18:58:11] <atom1> the dos version had a better 2d iges
[18:58:20] <anonimasu> only if I save it as dxf and export it and re-save it as older dxf
[18:59:54] <anonimasu> hm, but 3d iges(my cad program only exports that)
[19:00:12] <toastyde1th> fucking 3d formats
[19:00:17] <anonimasu> indeed
[19:00:21] <toastyde1th> cam/cad is such a mess
[19:00:26] <atom1> we brought in iges from catia and cadam all the time with it
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[19:00:47] <anonimasu> catia probably is better at iges then my program
[19:02:28] <atom1> i should let you try the dos iges once
[19:02:38] <alex_joni> anonimasu: you can import iges with alibre, and export to a number of formats
[19:02:53] <anonimasu> alex_joni: im exporting from alibre to iges and it dosent work at all
[19:02:58] <fragalot> ve7it: shiny
[19:03:04] <alex_joni> anonimasu: ah :)
[19:03:09] <anonimasu> atom1: if just the lathe works that's pretty amazing :)
[19:03:15] <alex_joni> ACIS then?
[19:03:18] <alex_joni> or step?
[19:03:20] <atom1> well it should
[19:03:38] <anonimasu> what atom board should I order to run emc at?
[19:04:05] <anonimasu> the d510? or the D945GSEJT one?
[19:05:40] <alex_joni> check the wiki for latency numbers
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[19:06:02] <anonimasu> ah, I didnt see that there was that on the wiki
[19:06:27] <alex_joni> search for d510
[19:07:54] <andypugh> You know that complaint that Mach3 looks like a Fruit Machine? I think I have achieved the same look to the hardware buttons of my Touchy system.
[19:07:55] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N7Z88ai8cR7012cckm4ihQ?feat=directlink
[19:08:11] <skunkworks> a few people have had issues with latency when the screen saver came on - one on here (danimal_garage and one on the email list)
[19:08:20] <andypugh> (They actually are gaming buttons, which are nice and cheap on that eBay)
[19:08:29] <skunkworks> or power saving - I don't remeber
[19:08:40] <alex_joni> andypugh: haha, beware of cradek, he might shoot you for that :P
[19:09:08] <anonimasu> hmm
[19:09:16] <andypugh> (you can also see the stylish Bronze jogwheel)
[19:09:24] <atom1> anonimasu, i got the D525 to use with emc
[19:09:31] <cradek> haha I love the buttons
[19:09:36] <alex_joni> that looked like a small display, untill I saw the USB ports
[19:09:51] <andypugh> No, big buttons.
[19:09:59] <anonimasu> atom1: does it work well?
[19:10:16] <cradek> the theme you found is interesting. it is much more functional than the ubuntu default.
[19:10:23] <andypugh> The frame is 20x20 Aluminium profile. (and there is a D510MO in the back)
[19:10:23] <atom1> i haven't hooked it up yet but the latency numbers are good
[19:10:56] <atom1> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442&cm_re=d525_atom_motherboard-_-13-121-442-_-Product
[19:11:14] <anonimasu> no chance to get just that one here
[19:11:19] <anonimasu> there's a d510 in the wiki
[19:11:34] <atom1> the d510's seem to work well
[19:11:35] <andypugh> cradek: I couldn't find any of the ones that you suggested to Jon a while ago, but that is the "High Contrast" one. I think I will try to shrink the top menu bar down a touch, though
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[19:12:00] <cradek> andypugh: I think the icon theme is making it that big
[19:12:02] <anonimasu> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Ubuntu91
[19:12:04] <andypugh> anonimasu: Where are you?
[19:12:08] <anonimasu> I've been getting max numbers of about 3800 for the servo thread and 4050 for the base thread.
[19:12:11] <anonimasu> north sweden
[19:12:20] <andypugh> I got mine from Amazon.
[19:12:22] <atom1> anonimasu you can't find an intel seller there?
[19:12:35] <anonimasu> is that better/worse then yours?
[19:13:00] <atom1> slightly better
[19:13:13] <atom1> i'd have to run it again but it was in the 4000 range
[19:13:29] <anonimasu> there's also d510mo(whatever the diff is)
[19:13:41] <atom1> this one is 1.8Ghz
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[19:13:49] <atom1> the 510 is a bit less
[19:13:54] <atom1> both dual core
[19:14:02] <atom1> this one has a parport out the back
[19:14:09] <atom1> the 510 doesn't
[19:14:16] <atom1> it has a plug though i think
[19:14:19] <anonimasu> it's just got a header
[19:15:15] <andypugh> Aye, going to Gnome icons gets the menu bar back under control.
[19:15:39] <anonimasu> mhm, heavy choice
[19:15:59] <anonimasu> the other board had alot better reviews then this one
[19:16:14] <anonimasu> and it has a 12v wall wart plug
[19:16:17] <andypugh> I am planning to use the button backlights to indicate availability of quill-up, pause, Nudge and Hold :-)
[19:16:47] <andypugh> Built-in 12V power option is a big win.
[19:17:07] <anonimasu> but will it run at all..
[19:19:02] <anonimasu> im gonna order one and it it isnt damn fast it'll power the plasma table.. since that will have lower speeds then the lathe
[19:20:19] <anonimasu> the 510 is better.. dual core..
[19:20:58] <atom1> the 525 is too
[19:21:37] <anonimasu> I can find a 515 bit from gigabyte and with fan
[19:21:52] <atom1> 515?
[19:21:58] <anonimasu> err 525
[19:22:05] <atom1> this one is fanless
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[19:22:10] <atom1> but it runs cool
[19:22:31] <atom1> the psu has a fan but it runs very slow
[19:22:49] <atom1> i like the case i got for it as well but you prolly wouldn't need a case
[19:23:15] <anonimasu> yep, gonna stick it in the control encolsure
[19:23:29] <atom1> for $5 more than the 510 and cheaper ram i didn't figure i could go wrong
[19:24:06] <anonimasu> im thinking of going with the same but gigabyte variety
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[19:24:14] <atom1> i'll reboot under ubuntu and run the latency...
[19:24:16] <anonimasu> stores here dont sell intel it seems
[19:24:18] <anonimasu> allright
[19:24:20] <atom1> i c
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[19:24:30] <Tom_L> brb
[19:24:43] * fragalot is one of the evil people using a laptop
[19:25:08] <Tom_L> i set it up dualboot
[19:25:40] <anonimasu> pff the psu is bigger then the board
[19:25:41] <Tom_L> i got a SSD for it to play with but it's not hooked up right now
[19:25:52] <fragalot> anonimasu: lol
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[19:26:07] <fragalot> anonimasu: you could go for a .. What' sthat thing called again
[19:26:15] <fragalot> it's a PSU the size of an ATX connector
[19:26:28] <anonimasu> hehe pico psu?
[19:26:38] <fragalot> aye
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[19:27:01] <Jymmmm> fragalot: I was thinking v-Grooves for the crosses, but what you have looks like it'll work too
[19:27:49] <atom1> ok, it's running about 7058 on servo and base is 7186 right now
[19:28:11] <atom1> i don't think you can run a pico psu on this one though
[19:28:18] <fragalot> Jymmmm: Yeah.. I'm kinda wondering if I could just thread MDF or not & simply use screws & plates with a slot milled out of them to clamp the PCBs down
[19:28:20] <Jymmmm> fragalot: Heck, you could replaces the + with a circle it looks like
[19:29:07] <Jymmmm> fragalot: Yes, you CAN tap MDF, BUT... *BIG BUT* only in the FACE, not through the edges
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[19:29:29] <toastyde1th> mdf is a lot like women.
[19:29:34] <cradek> clamping PCBs at the edge doesn't work. they don't stay flat enough.
[19:30:01] <toastyde1th> what about a jeweler's chuck type deal
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[19:30:43] <fragalot> cradek: sofar i've just clamped them in this:
[19:30:44] <Jymmmm> fragalot: Alternatively, you could insert a T-Nuts on the bottom of the MDF
[19:31:08] * anonimasu is damn split what to choose
[19:31:11] <fragalot> cradek: http://www.cnc-sable.nl/images/bankschroef%202.jpg
[19:31:19] <atom1> it settled in around 4994 and 5912 now
[19:31:20] <toastyde1th> you could also build a machine that worked like a turret punch
[19:31:30] <fragalot> Jymmmm: Now there's an idea
[19:31:31] <toastyde1th> with an air bearing/vacuum table
[19:31:46] <cradek> fragalot: does that work? I'd think you'd get an arc
[19:31:51] <fragalot> it does
[19:31:54] <cradek> huh
[19:31:56] <cradek> color me surprised
[19:32:06] * atom1 gets out a paintbrush
[19:32:23] <fragalot> cradek: biggest PCB sofar has been ... Hold on. *opens eagle*
[19:32:38] <Jymmmm> 2mm sq
[19:33:43] <fragalot> cradek: 80mm
[19:33:54] <fragalot> without it arcing
[19:34:10] <fragalot> 80mm is the limit that I can fit in there though, which is why i'm looking at alternatives
[19:34:17] <cradek> doing trace isolation milling right?
[19:34:19] <fragalot> yes
[19:34:20] <cradek> how deep do you cut?
[19:34:28] <fragalot> .1
[19:34:30] <fragalot> mm
[19:34:41] <fragalot> well that's a lie
[19:34:59] <atom1> anonimasu, get some latency numbers from the 510 here and compare
[19:35:11] <fragalot> I just move the Z axis just to when I hit the copper & then set that as -.1mm
[19:35:11] <atom1> i'm sure several are using it
[19:35:31] <atom1> i got this one to test with anyway but i'll use it on my mill eventually
[19:35:49] <atom1> nobody had a 525 so i figured i'd try one
[19:36:29] <atom1> i gotta get the steppers configured on it then i may try it with the parport
[19:36:40] <atom1> eventually i'll stick a mesa board on it
[19:37:02] <fragalot> cradek: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31265732&id=1389162264 <= forgot I had a pic of me milling a pcb :P
[19:37:06] <fragalot> ...
[19:37:10] <fragalot> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/180986_1583307467801_1389162264_31327679_4312026_n.jpg
[19:38:19] <atom1> you must login to view this facebook page
[19:38:26] <atom1> pfft
[19:38:54] <fragalot> last link works
[19:38:57] <fragalot> first one was wrong
[19:39:15] <Jymmmm> fragalot: you have a pic of your whole machine?
[19:39:26] <atom1> zoom out
[19:39:45] * atom1 turns on panarama
[19:40:02] <fragalot> Jymmmm: no,.... give me a minute
[19:40:06] <Jymmmm> k
[19:40:18] <Jymmmm> 54
[19:40:20] <Jymmmm> 53
[19:40:22] <Jymmmm> 52
[19:40:56] * atom1 gives fragalot a whole degree
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[19:42:02] <crazy_imp> :D
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[19:43:59] <Jymmmm> looks like a touch off depth setter http://www.cnc-sable.nl/images/0%20punt%20zetter%20cnc%20sable.jpg
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[19:44:27] <atom1> for automatic?
[19:44:40] <atom1> all i've seen is those little led ones
[19:44:46] <atom1> like 2" tall
[19:45:09] <Jymmmm> I dont know, just looks ike it to me
[19:45:13] <fragalot> >.> I forgot to shoot them in jpeg
[19:45:23] * fragalot fires up his desktop to convert from raw
[19:45:39] <atom1> k, gonna go to the scrap yard and see if they have some alum with my name on it
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[19:45:56] <Jymmmm> fragalot: Is this your spindle? http://www.cnc-sable.nl/images/Boormachine.jpg
[19:47:17] <fragalot> yes
[19:47:45] <Jymmmm> fragalot: what's the specs on it? variable?
[19:48:07] <fragalot> 230W, somewhere around 28k rpm fixed
[19:48:22] <fragalot> with somewhere around I mean, it doesn't have a tacho
[19:48:29] <Jymmmm> fragalot: Can you put it on speed control?
[19:48:34] <fragalot> never tried
[19:48:36] <Jymmmm> 110VAC ?
[19:48:40] <fragalot> 220
[19:48:49] <Jymmmm> k
[19:49:10] <fragalot> where did my usb cable go
[19:49:22] <Jymmmm> fragalot: did you buy your machine as a kit?
[19:49:28] <Jymmmm> http://www.cnc-sable.nl/images/11090423859788_464_m.jpg
[19:50:05] <fragalot> Jymmmm: no
[19:50:21] <fragalot> it came pre-assembled, just had to bolt the spindle on
[19:50:31] <Jymmmm> ah
[19:50:33] <fragalot> which is why it's still misaligned on the X axis
[19:50:58] <fragalot> and it's still in warranty for a bit (had to claim it already once so not risking it) so i'm not fixing that yet
[19:51:24] <fragalot> it's off by about .1 or .2mm over a distance of 200mm
[19:52:15] <Jymmmm> ah
[19:53:23] <fragalot> ugh
[19:53:30] <fragalot> forgot i moved my images folder - this may take a while to sync
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[19:57:30] <Jymmmm> fragalot: this? http://www.cnc-sable.nl/images/sable%20text.jpg
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[20:03:09] <fragalot> yes
[20:03:14] <fragalot> hold on - exporting pics now
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[20:04:37] <fragalot> *cough*
[20:04:39] <fragalot> 26MB :P
[20:04:41] <fragalot> for 4 pics
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[20:07:10] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vN3dwaw (7MB .rar containing 4 pics of my cnc machine)
[20:09:07] * fragalot notices the rust on some of the bolts and scratches his head
[20:10:48] <fragalot> good thing the rest of it is made of aluminium I guess
[20:12:18] <fragalot> I still need to sort the cables out properly too >.<
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[20:26:21] <mrsunshine__> every year i try and make a backflip, aparently cant do it this year either, and it hurts even more and more for every year ... :P
[20:26:30] <fragalot> lol
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[20:30:19] * fragalot wonders if his link killed Jymmmm's connection >.<
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[20:35:34] <crazy_imp> fragalot: how long does the engraving tip last?
[20:37:20] <fragalot> depends on the PCB material and size
[20:38:11] <fragalot> most that I do is on those cheap brown PCB's about 80x100mm in size, and it lasts about 7 PCB's or so
[20:38:40] <crazy_imp> do you do mostly smd or dip?
[20:39:28] <fragalot> combination of both
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[20:41:08] <TekniQue> fragalot: only 7 boards on cheap brown phenolic boards?
[20:41:14] <TekniQue> damn
[20:41:29] <TekniQue> I wonder how many it'll do on fibreglass (aka FR-4)
[20:41:31] <fragalot> TekniQue: they're cheap bits
[20:41:36] <TekniQue> ok
[20:41:37] <TekniQue> HSS?
[20:41:43] <fragalot> iirc only 1 euro each
[20:41:47] <fragalot> carbide
[20:41:50] <fragalot> 'sec
[20:42:09] <TekniQue> My experience with HSS drills on FR-4 is that they can do about 10 holes
[20:42:13] <TekniQue> and then they're junk
[20:42:27] <fragalot> lol
[20:42:48] <TekniQue> but tungsten carbide lasts a while
[20:42:51] <fragalot> I've only done a few fibreglass PCBs so can't state anything on the lifetime of those
[20:43:10] <TekniQue> the problem with the HSS drills is that when they get dull, they will still drill
[20:43:16] <TekniQue> but tear up the board
[20:43:45] <TekniQue> ripping off the copper around the hole, etc
[20:43:50] <fragalot> yeah
[20:43:58] <fragalot> velleman drills are terrible
[20:44:14] <fragalot> looking for the link where I got my stuff from now
[20:44:41] <TekniQue> I buy from megauk.com these days
[20:44:44] <TekniQue> for PCB stuff
[20:45:15] <TekniQue> tools and materials
[20:45:39] <fragalot> I get mine from ebay - http://stores.benl.ebay.be/superworkshopbitbitworld
[20:46:57] <TekniQue> ok about 2 euro each
[20:47:15] <TekniQue> hm no he also has some cheaper ones
[20:47:57] <TekniQue> mega are not that much more expensive
[20:48:31] <TekniQue> something like 2 pound sterling per bit
[20:48:34] <fragalot> http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/10xCarbide-PCB-Engraving-Bit-CNC-Router-Tool-20A-0-1mm-/140414018657?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b153e461 these are the ones i've got
[20:48:59] <TekniQue> I think I'll buy some from this guy anyway
[20:49:18] <TekniQue> I need to get some more milling bits
[20:49:20] <fragalot> they come delivered in a neat plastic box too
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[20:50:02] <fragalot> I forgot where I bought my drills from, but they're insanely sharp and i've drilled hundreds of holes with them already
[20:50:10] <fragalot> they still pierce your skin just by looking at them wrong :P
[20:50:47] <fragalot> http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/5-x-30-Degree-Double-Headed-Carbide-CNC-Engraving-Bit-/130417518743?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5d7d6897 <= rofl I've never seen that before
[20:50:55] <andypugh> I am trying to help a guy with an Anilam retrofit. He says that these are the drives:
[20:50:56] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vijCdREok91dX_u99zpHWg?feat=directlink
[20:51:12] <fragalot> "cost saving" - yet they still cost the same as 10 normal ones
[20:51:16] <andypugh> And that the wires from the motors go straight to them. Does that seem even slightly plausible?
[20:52:08] <fragalot> andypugh: O.O
[20:52:10] <cradek> andypugh: nope
[20:52:17] <andypugh> Possibly suppressor chokes?
[20:52:33] <cradek> possibly, but 4 terminals is weird if so, and they don't look massive enough
[20:52:43] <cradek> need more photos :-)
[20:53:22] <andypugh> DC servos, to 2 out an 2 in?
[20:53:48] <cradek> these aren't servo amps, I can guarantee it...
[20:54:34] <JT-Shop> looks like a transformer
[20:54:56] <JT-Shop> of some sort
[20:55:25] <cradek> I see the wire next to it marked Y...
[20:55:35] <cradek> if the motors do hook right to these, I don't know what they are
[20:56:04] <JT-Shop> not sure if I saw anything like that in my Anilam cabinet or not
[20:56:23] <JT-Shop> my drives are cards as I recall
[20:57:15] <JT-Shop> could it be isolation transformers?
[20:57:37] <andypugh> Not driving a DC servo, surely?
[20:57:43] <cradek> they look like filament transformers
[20:57:48] <JT-Shop> dunno, just guessing
[20:58:02] <cradek> back up 6' and take more photos
[20:58:04] <cradek> trace more wires
[20:58:05] <cradek> etc
[20:58:18] <andypugh> I have no reason to doubt the guy when he says that the motor wires go straight to them.
[20:58:29] <cradek> then see where the other side goes
[20:59:11] <JT-Shop> andypugh: what model Anilam is it?
[21:00:27] <JT-Shop> mine is an 1100M, the drives are in the right cabinet and the PC in the left and the mains are in the back http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Machine%20Shop/HPIM0599.jpg
[21:00:33] <andypugh> This guy: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,7716/catid,30/
[21:00:47] <andypugh> (He claims to have trouble logging in to the forum)
[21:01:17] <JT-Shop> I'm not sure if the crusader is before or after the 1100M as far as age goes
[21:02:24] <JT-Shop> or how similar it is... a wider angle shot of the drives cabinet will help
[21:02:28] <fragalot> JT-Shop: love the wooden box :P
[21:02:42] <JT-Shop> heh
[21:03:01] <JT-Shop> I see he put his email in the first post like he don't like forums
[21:03:15] <JT-Shop> maybe he might like the mailing list better
[21:03:32] <cradek> yeah nobody likes forums.
[21:03:44] <JT-Shop> fragalot: I took it off when I put the second vise on lol
[21:03:55] <fragalot> haha
[21:04:01] <fragalot> have you regretted that yet?
[21:04:08] <JT-Shop> well I wouldn't say nobody
[21:04:13] <cradek> :-)
[21:04:14] <JT-Shop> the second vise?
[21:04:22] <fragalot> JT-Shop: removing the wooden box
[21:04:47] <JT-Shop> LOL, I don't use it any more since I got the Discovery 308
[21:05:31] <JT-Shop> when I get it moved over here to the new shop I'll convert it to EMC2... I wonder if 2.6 will be out by then?
[21:06:29] * JT-Shop goes back to wiring up the shop
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[21:25:37] <ntg> anybody listening?
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[21:26:19] <ntg> i have been searching the archives for some hardware info on EMC2, ie, recommended hardware
[21:26:46] <ntg> just wondering if there was a list of computers/hardware that was a good fit for low latency
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[21:28:27] <JT-Shop> search the wiki
[21:28:53] <JT-Shop> some have reported good results with the atom like the D510MO
[21:31:04] <andypugh> I have some sympathy with the guy where forums are concerned he seems to do all his net access on a Blackberry.
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[21:39:10] <JT-Shop> I can't have any sympathy cause I don't know what a Blackberry is...
[21:39:48] <JT-Shop> if that is a phone of some sort I don't see how he does any surfing with those tiny little screens
[21:39:56] <fragalot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCpcTnMIT-0 tune!
[21:39:57] <fragalot> xD
[21:40:31] <fragalot> JT-Shop: it's a phone with a tiny display and no touch capabillities
[21:40:37] <fragalot> afaik, it's hell to browse sites with
[21:41:12] <JT-Shop> ouch
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[21:46:27] <JT-Shop> anyone want to go up in the attic and get the left over bag of itchulation for me?
[21:47:36] <fragalot> pass
[21:48:00] <fragalot> that reminded me of the most horrible cable I have ever had to use
[21:49:44] <fragalot> PVC mantle, under that a fibreglass weave, under that a copper weave, under that another fibreglass weave, under that somekind of fabric, under that 5x1.5mm very fine strand twisted wires that appear to expand to 2.5mm the second you get the mantle off of it.
[21:51:06] <fragalot> somehow the strands are twisted in such a way that it's impossible to twist it properly yourself once you've stripped it
[21:53:00] <PCW> "possibly, but 4 terminals is weird if so, and they don't look massive enough"
[21:53:02] <PCW> 4 terminals would be right for a common mode choke (and common mode chokes dont need to be that big)
[21:53:33] <fragalot> andypugh: ^
[21:53:46] <fragalot> PCW: it helps if you hilight the person you're replying to :P
[21:54:34] <PCW> yeah this is windows and copy/paste are awkward (compared to X)
[21:55:01] <fragalot> true
[21:55:04] <andypugh> thanks Fraggle
[21:55:05] <JT-Shop> yep, Anilam Crusader circa 1976 "Crusader ANILAM entered the field of numerical control in 1976 by introducing the MDI-200, its first control. It was one of the first that could be programmed directly at the machine tool. It was soon followed by our first conversational control (1979). "
[21:55:59] <Valen> going to try "milling" glass
[21:56:02] <Valen> any suggestions?
[21:56:19] <JT-Shop> diamond tools
[21:56:20] <PCW> safety glasses?
[21:56:40] <andypugh> Valen: Macor?
[21:56:43] <Valen> I'm thinking some diamond burr tools (~3mm), a decent speed (I'm thinking 8000RPM) and water cooling
[21:57:06] <Valen> andypugh: nah window glass
[21:57:07] <JT-Shop> we used grinding paste and a copper tube to "drill" holes in a Jap fishing float once
[21:58:20] <andypugh> Diamond works, perhaps buy a stained-glass-window-grinder-tool?
[21:58:22] <Valen> I want to make some gears out of it
[21:58:43] <Valen> andypugh: I have been looking at them but they won't easily mount in the spindle
[21:58:55] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stained-Glass-Grinder-Bits-1%2f4%22,-3%2f4%22,-1%22---3-pack-UK_W0QQitemZ110658511992
[21:59:05] <Jymmmm> fragalot: No, working on bug out kits is all, just taking a break for a moment
[21:59:21] <Valen> and making gearteeth by hand is not my idea of a good time lol
[21:59:29] <ds3> Jymmm: bug out kits?
[22:00:01] <Jymmmm> ds3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag
[22:00:30] <Valen> all the americans going to head to the hills to get away from the radiation from japan?
[22:00:40] <fragalot> Jymmmm: hehe :P
[22:00:44] <ds3> Jymmmm: I know what they are... trying to figure out why you are putting together one :D
[22:00:47] <Valen> I was looking at these and thinking i might be able to get some higher quality ones http://au.element14.com/duratool/d00150/burr-set-diamond-30pc/dp/1712140
[22:01:20] <Jymmmm> ds3: Big EQ predicted for pacific coast within 10 days
[22:01:55] <ds3> ah
[22:02:09] <ds3> it could be up in AK :D
[22:02:45] <Valen> we arent allowed to have any of these, they are all illegal "Slingshot, pellet gun, blowgun or other small game hunting equipment"
[22:02:47] <Jymmmm> ds3: Yeah, AK to MX r some where in between
[22:02:48] <Valen> as is a knife
[22:03:06] <ds3> Valen: are you allow to have a club?
[22:03:08] <Jymmmm> Valen: who's "we"?
[22:03:10] <fragalot> I somewhat doubt that any of those are of use in an urban environement anyway
[22:03:12] <Valen> australia
[22:03:18] <Jymmmm> Valen: *sigh*
[22:03:26] <fragalot> wait
[22:03:27] <ds3> Valen: or a boomerang?
[22:03:37] <fragalot> australians aren't allowed knives?
[22:03:40] <Valen> boomerang is probably ok
[22:03:49] <Valen> fragalot: unless you have a "legal purpose"
[22:03:56] <fragalot> crocodile dundee li.. oh ok
[22:04:02] <Valen> IE your a butcher on your way to work
[22:04:03] <fragalot> I guess survival is a legal purpose
[22:04:21] <Jymmmm> Valen: Like, who's going to arrest you in a disaster for having them?
[22:04:26] <Valen> well they say that carrying a swiss army knife is illegal
[22:04:39] <Jymmmm> Valen: WHAAAAAAAT?!
[22:05:51] <Valen> oh you can in one state
[22:06:53] * fragalot always walks around with his victorinox solider & opinel No6
[22:07:00] <fragalot> soldier*
[22:07:13] * Valen has a leatherman
[22:07:47] <ds3> Jymmmm: now you are building a bag, where do you intend to head after the EQ?
[22:07:57] <fragalot> I used to have a gerber but I appear to have lost it
[22:07:57] <fragalot> :'(
[22:08:32] <fragalot> the shop where I got it went bankrupt though and now I can't find any local shops that sell anything half decent for under 200 euro
[22:08:35] <fragalot> >.>
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[22:10:49] <andypugh> fragalot: Mail order? http://www.raven-armoury.co.uk/
[22:10:50] <Jymmmm> ds3: I'll never tell =)
[22:11:38] <ds3> :D
[22:12:01] <andypugh> Actually, a more serious suggestion: http://www.heinnie.com/Pocket-Tools/c-1-94/
[22:12:15] <fragalot> lol
[22:12:31] <fragalot> any suggestions from that site?
[22:12:59] <andypugh> http://www.heinnie.com/Pocket-Tools/Spyderco-Multi-Tools/Spyderco-Spyderench/p-94-636-3558/
[22:13:09] <ds3> machining question - if you have to knurl the button/groove inside a pulley, how would you do it?
[22:13:35] <ds3> say a pulley with a flat bottom groove that is 0.125 wide
[22:13:44] <fragalot> andypugh: shiny
[22:13:55] <ds3> and about 0.060 below the surface of the cylinder
[22:13:56] <andypugh> If you need to knurl that, something is broken.
[22:14:13] <andypugh> I have one of those spyderwrenches.
[22:14:56] <fragalot> andypugh: how thick is that spyderench?
[22:15:23] <andypugh> 10mm?
[22:15:30] <andypugh> Maybe a bit more.
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[22:15:50] <ds3> andypugh: okay... what would you suggests as a way to roughen it so it can grip soemthing? it is part of a pinch type feed system
[22:15:57] <andypugh> I don't carry it any more, we have similar laws to Aus.
[22:16:08] <fragalot> andypugh: Hmm.
[22:16:13] * fragalot puts this one on his "might get" list
[22:16:21] <Valen> you could mill it
[22:16:40] <andypugh> ds3: Ah, in that case ignore me. I was assuming you were trying to fix a slipping belt :-)
[22:17:00] <andypugh> You should be able to get a knurling wheel in?
[22:17:03] <fragalot> andypugh: http://www.heinnie.com/Pocket-Tools/Byrd-Multi-Tools/Byrd-Knives-Byrdrench/p-94-637-727/ <= exact same thing but cheaper? xD
[22:17:19] <ds3> andypugh: nope. trying to feed a plastic filament but need to increase traction and be able to guide it
[22:17:38] <ds3> no, the smallest wheel I recall seeing is like 0.250 wide if not a bit more
[22:17:47] <andypugh> "Doesn't resemble any other pocket tool on the market" ?
[22:18:38] <andypugh> ds3: Grind one narrower?
[22:18:50] <andypugh> What is the pulley material?
[22:19:03] <ds3> either alum or steel (12L14)
[22:19:10] <fragalot> andypugh: lmao
[22:19:10] <Valen> ds3, a V groove milling bit and mill out the knurling
[22:19:21] <ds3> trying to design the part
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[22:19:38] <Valen> or use a ballmill it'll give softer edges but still ribbed for your pleasure
[22:19:41] <ds3> Valen: Hmmmm.. with a 4th axis or another way?
[22:19:47] <andypugh> So, knurl a steel disc of the right width, then knurl the pulley with that?
[22:20:03] <Valen> dunno depends how many you want to do i guess lol
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[22:20:22] <ds3> just one or two for a proto
[22:20:37] <andypugh> Is it your own money?
[22:20:41] <ds3> yes it is
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[22:20:56] <JT-Shop> ds3: for feeding wire two v groove wheels provided the best traction and least deformation of the wire
[22:21:04] <andypugh> OK, go for the "making a knurl" idea then. Otherwise I would say "modify a knurl"
[22:21:22] <Valen> that multtitool does look good
[22:21:25] <ds3> the other way was to knurl, part off and bolt on 2 fender washers
[22:21:41] <ds3> JT-Shop: this is plastic filament
[22:21:51] <JT-Shop> what size plastic filament?
[22:22:20] <ds3> 0.125 nominal; I think it is really 3mm
[22:22:30] <ds3> it might be ABS or HDPE
[22:22:37] <JT-Shop> so pretty big really
[22:22:48] <ds3> big???
[22:23:13] <JT-Shop> have you considered an X ring on one wheel and plain rounded wheel on the other
[22:23:33] <JT-Shop> well when you said filament I thought of 0.0010 or something
[22:23:48] <ds3> Oh.. gotcha
[22:23:54] <ds3> what's an X ring?
[22:24:03] <ds3> ring with V groove?
[22:24:12] <JT-Shop> it's a type of o-ring but has an X cross section
[22:24:25] <JT-Shop> to press the filament into the X ring
[22:24:31] <ds3> Oh
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[22:24:37] <JT-Shop> the X ring provides the traction
[22:24:55] <ds3> isn't that similar to have 2 side by side O rings so they for a figure 8?
[22:25:12] <JT-Shop> similar yes
[22:25:45] <ds3> but you think any of the O ring material will reliably grip ABS or HDPE?
[22:26:06] <JT-Shop> I assume you don't want to deform the plastic filament?
[22:26:20] <ds3> I don't care about deforming it as it is going into a melting device
[22:26:35] <JT-Shop> ah, now I see
[22:27:01] <ds3> the other idea that i discarded was a knurled driven surface agains a bearing with a V groove to keep the tracking
[22:27:11] <andypugh> I am thinking "RepRap"?
[22:27:12] <JT-Shop> yea, straight knurls with sides on one would do for that
[22:27:24] <ds3> andypugh: yes, but without some of the things I don't like about it
[22:27:43] <andypugh> Two single-flanged wheels. Then your knurl can reach.
[22:27:54] <Valen> ds3 are you trying to make an extruder?
[22:28:01] <ds3> Valen: yes
[22:28:09] <Valen> take a look at the reprap stuff
[22:28:23] <Valen> they have recently improved their design as i recall
[22:28:26] <ds3> Valen: I did. started there and decided it isn't quite what I want
[22:28:29] <JT-Shop> why not a real extruder?
[22:28:43] <fragalot> andypugh: what size is the wrench & grip? (in mm preferably)
[22:28:52] <ds3> one guy had something like the otehr half of a worm gear set
[22:29:07] <fragalot> nvm, 14mm apparently
[22:29:10] <ds3> JT-Shop: I don't like the loose tolerances
[22:29:18] <fragalot> not as big as I hoped but still mighty tempting
[22:29:35] <ds3> JT-Shop: I worked out my own heating/melting setup. just need to figure out how to manufacture a feed mechanism
[22:29:39] <Valen> personally given that the abs is of a fairly defined size I'd look at running it through something like a rotating nut
[22:29:58] <ds3> and effectively form threads on there?
[22:30:10] <Valen> basically
[22:30:20] <Valen> just screw it into the heater
[22:30:32] <ds3> I thought about that and I liked it, I just donno how to get the process started
[22:30:53] <ds3> I have a crappy HF set with a #4 die that I could use for that
[22:31:06] <andypugh> fragalot: Folded, length is 118.32, thickness excluding clip is 14.54, width 39.03. Approximately.
[22:32:09] <JT-Shop> LOL a google search on lumens per sq ft brings up more pot growing info than lighting info
[22:32:11] <andypugh> 64mm blade length.
[22:32:47] <fragalot> andypugh: somehow it doesn't look very ergonomic to use the pliers on it
[22:33:19] <andypugh> Agreed, the pliers are not the best feature.
[22:33:51] <andypugh> The spanner is good, expecially with the handle unfolded and locked.
[22:34:22] <fragalot> Aye that looked neat
[22:34:49] <andypugh> For serious pliers, the Leatherman Crunch is good: http://www.heinnie.com/Pocket-Tools/Leatherman-Multi-Tools/Leatherman-Multi-tools-Crunch/p-94-222-534/
[22:36:09] <andypugh> You can seperate the parts of the Spyderco, so use the screwdriver on one end, and the spanner on the other.
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[22:39:57] <atom1> wow they had a nice selection of alum today
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[22:42:12] <JT-Shop> I'm thinking 90 foot candles of light will be enough in my shop
[22:42:34] <atom1> might blind you on a monday morning
[22:42:53] <JT-Shop> welding glasses will be by the door
[22:42:54] <atom1> add a 'mood' dimmer
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[22:43:08] <JT-Shop> don't think that works with shop lights
[22:43:28] <JT-Shop> a switch or three will help
[22:43:35] <andypugh> LED strips on all surfaces, no shaddows.
[22:43:38] <bill20r3> you should just use 90 candles.
[22:43:44] <atom1> my buddy tried a dimmer on his flourescents in his office and it never did work well
[22:43:50] <JT-Shop> per square foot?
[22:43:50] <andypugh> 90 foot-long candles.
[22:44:03] <atom1> that's what i read first
[22:44:10] <JT-Shop> ok 1000 lumens for you guys on the other side of the pond
[22:44:31] <JT-Shop> I mean LUX
[22:45:48] <atom1> just put some grow lights in and make it a multi purpose shop
[22:46:02] <JT-Shop> heh
[22:48:04] <fragalot> andypugh: http://www.heinnie.com/Pocket-Tools/SOG-Multi-Tools/SOG-Power-Assist/p-94-224-3731/ I think I might go for this one
[22:50:42] <andypugh> Yeah, that does look good.
[22:54:09] <JT-Shop> also as they all plug into outlets in the ceiling I can unplug them as needed
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[22:57:11] <atom1> JT-Shop, i considered suggesting celing drops for the machines
[22:57:19] <fragalot> anyone have some amazon promo codes they wish to donate to me?
[22:57:20] <fragalot> :P
[22:57:26] <atom1> snake conduit or something
[22:58:33] <JT-Shop> atom1: I think most will be close enough to a wall and those that might find themselves out in the middle a drop would work
[22:59:02] <JT-Shop> in the middle a cord grip (the chinese finger type) and SO cord works great
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[23:00:20] <JT-Shop> just trying to figure out where to put the ceiling boxes for the outlets for lights and other 120vac stuff now
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[23:03:41] <atom1> yeah i didn't know if code let you do that
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[23:04:36] <JT-Shop> lol, there ain't no code out here :)
[23:05:54] <JT-Shop> which is good in one way and bad in another
[23:06:06] <fragalot> andypugh: ordered the SOG S66-N
[23:07:01] <andypugh> Hope you have many happy years together. I just realised that I have probably had my Spyderco for 15 years.
[23:08:14] <fragalot> haha
[23:08:16] <JT-Shop> now I figuring out how to switch a few on, 1/2 on, 3/4 on and all on...
[23:08:39] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Matrix addressing.
[23:08:40] <fragalot> i've had my victorinox soldier since 02
[23:08:51] <JT-Shop> ah yes
[23:09:03] <fragalot> the opinel is only a year old, and the gerber, if I hadn't lost it, would have been 4 years old now
[23:09:15] <fragalot> Estimated shipping date 23 Mar 2011
[23:09:16] <fragalot> \o/
[23:10:10] <JT-Shop> my gerber threw a shoe and I replaced it with my 25 year old Buck 110
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[23:11:25] <Tom_shop> logger[psha]
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[23:21:09] <JT-Shop> hmmm, matrix switching :)
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[23:24:23] <andypugh> Why is it that the Hostmot2 sub-files can see the functions in hostmot2.c, but my function can't? I can force it with EXPORT_SYMBOL, but I want to understand.
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[23:32:41] <JT-Shop> I wish I understood too
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[23:57:32] <JT-Shop> andypugh: want to take a crack at this one http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,7986/lang,english/#7986