#emc | Logs for 2011-03-08

[00:00:36] <andypugh> Right, it's tomorrow, time to log.
[00:00:44] <skunkworks> night
[00:00:52] <SWPadnos> seeya
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[00:01:02] <PCW> Night Andy
[00:01:10] <danimal_garage> crap. got another realtime delay error
[00:01:16] -!- rooks has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish.]
[00:01:42] <danimal_garage> it seems to be when the monitor goes to sleep
[00:01:56] <skunkworks> video card issue
[00:02:06] <JT-Shop> tell it to stay awake
[00:02:13] <danimal_garage> lol JT-Shop
[00:02:17] <skunkworks> what does the dr say - don't do that ;)
[00:02:21] <SWPadnos> danimal_garage, turn off the screensaver and all power saving stuff
[00:02:41] <danimal_garage> i'll turn off the screen saver, but the other stuff is already off
[00:02:48] <SWPadnos> I'll bet it isn't ;)
[00:03:02] <SWPadnos> I mean in the display and power properties
[00:03:07] <SWPadnos> not BIOS
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[00:03:18] <danimal_garage> i did, but i'll double check
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[00:04:00] <SWPadnos> System->Preferences->Screensaver, disable the screensaver and screen lock when inactive
[00:04:39] <SWPadnos> also go into Power Management and set the two timeouts to Never
[00:05:00] <SWPadnos> and also uncheck "Dim Display when Idle" (just for the heck of it)
[00:05:32] <SWPadnos> bbl
[00:05:33] <danimal_garage> wont the monitor stay on?
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[00:09:05] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: what is the hardware? maybe a plugged in video card would fix your issues?
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[00:16:23] <danimal_garage> d510mo
[00:16:33] <danimal_garage> no way to put in a different video card
[00:16:54] <danimal_garage> shouldnt be having problems with it anyways, cant figure it out
[00:17:03] <skunkworks> odd
[00:17:12] <danimal_garage> yea
[00:18:25] <skunkworks> what is your servo period?
[00:18:33] <PCW> I wonder is the monitor sleep mode uses the DDC somehow
[00:18:48] <danimal_garage> 400k
[00:18:56] <danimal_garage> pcw, i bet it does
[00:19:17] <skunkworks> really?
[00:19:22] <danimal_garage> yea
[00:19:27] <skunkworks> yikes
[00:19:34] <skunkworks> wait
[00:19:44] <danimal_garage> oh wait thats what i have it set at in ini
[00:19:51] <skunkworks> reallY
[00:19:55] <danimal_garage> the spikes can be over 700k though
[00:20:36] <skunkworks> 400k may be too low for all the commuication you have (mesa, classic ladder and such)
[00:20:40] <danimal_garage> 774k this last time
[00:20:52] <danimal_garage> i have a seperate thread for ladder
[00:20:55] <PCW> Sounds like you will have to have keep the monitor awake...
[00:21:08] <danimal_garage> maybe try a different monitor...
[00:21:22] <danimal_garage> sucks, i like this one. it's a 15" lcd
[00:21:27] <danimal_garage> hard to find those
[00:21:47] <Tom_itx> i'm looking to get one of those surplus
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[00:25:17] <danimal_garage> ill sell you one cheap lol
[00:25:30] <Tom_itx> i bet
[00:26:53] <PCW> I dont think the problem is the monitor (its just a slave to the DDC communications)
[00:26:54] <PCW> like SWPadnos said: disable the screen saver
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[00:27:25] <danimal_garage> i did
[00:27:46] <PCW> did that fix the RTDs?
[00:28:04] <danimal_garage> oh i wont know
[00:28:09] <danimal_garage> for a while
[00:28:30] <danimal_garage> it wont give another warning till i restart emc according to the error
[00:28:45] <danimal_garage> and i cant do that till i finish working today
[00:29:10] <skunkworks> I know I had a mesa card in an atom 330 and when I was testing it I set the .5ms and started getting realtime delay errors
[00:29:20] <skunkworks> (playing with cl also)
[00:29:52] <danimal_garage> would i still get that if cl is in a different thread?
[00:30:50] <danimal_garage> i had that screen saver with all the planets and stuff... probably a resource hog
[00:35:10] <SWPadnos> openGL?
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[00:44:51] <danimal_garage> opengl?
[00:45:09] <SWPadnos> the planets screen saver - is it 3D?
[00:45:18] <danimal_garage> oh i dont know
[00:45:26] <danimal_garage> might be
[00:45:38] <SWPadnos> if it isn't just pictures, then it probably is :)
[00:46:18] <danimal_garage> its one of the ones in the screensaver list in lucid
[00:46:22] <SWPadnos> oh no, if it's the "cosmos" one, then it's just a slideshow
[00:47:47] <danimal_garage> yea thats it
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[00:57:54] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/126076
[00:59:39] <cradek> oh god just use emc already
[01:02:14] <skunkworks> heh
[01:02:42] <skunkworks> well - art is trying to fix it.
[01:03:03] <skunkworks> he seems to admit there is a problem this time :)
[01:03:14] <danimal_garage> lol
[01:03:39] <danimal_garage> i got a guy who was trying to sell me on mach to switch to emc on his mach machine
[01:04:11] <danimal_garage> took about 2 minutes of seeing emc run on my machines to convince him
[01:04:44] <danimal_garage> not that my machines are all that great, but they're quite a bit better than that machine he had
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[01:06:26] <skunkworks> huh - for some reason now - playing youtube videos locks this computer up. :)
[01:07:12] <danimal_garage> is it a d510?
[01:07:13] <danimal_garage> lol
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[01:09:33] <skunkworks> heh
[01:10:07] <skunkworks> did everyone see this earler? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmM4XpnJ3lQ
[01:10:12] <skunkworks> kinda cool
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[01:21:59] <skunkworks> there - update of flash seemed to fix it
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[01:25:08] <skunkworks> ok - maybe not ;)
[01:25:20] <cradek> memtest
[01:26:10] <skunkworks> really? yeck
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[01:29:51] <cradek> kirk_wallace: I've been looking through your code and don't see anything too weird
[01:30:10] <cradek> you don't set up the hal debugging params, but that's harmless
[01:30:41] <cradek> the retval handling in read_data is weird and possibly not what you meant
[01:30:53] <cradek> but I don't see anything crashy, offhand
[01:31:03] <kirk_wallace> Nothing too weird is weird.
[01:31:30] <SWPadnos> what got me is that the \n's go to the focused window. that just seems weird
[01:31:45] <SWPadnos> I'd expect them to go nowhere, to a log, or to a terminal
[01:32:04] <cradek> where do they *come from*?
[01:32:19] <SWPadnos> there are a couple of places where a \n can be printed, from the modbus library
[01:32:22] <cradek> I didn't catch the thing about the focused window. that's surely weird.
[01:32:26] <SWPadnos> if debug is set
[01:33:03] <cradek> this doesn't run with any elevated privileges does it?
[01:33:18] <cradek> (shouldn't, it's just a serial port)
[01:34:16] <kirk_wallace> I saw something similar with the Sparkfun USB AVR datalogger. It streams data to whatever is focused when you plug it in.
[01:35:01] <cradek> but this isn't usb right?
[01:35:13] <cradek> a usb thing could pretend to be a keyboard
[01:35:28] <kirk_wallace> RS232
[01:35:52] <cradek> this doesn't run with any elevated privileges does it?
[01:35:54] <SWPadnos> heh. fprintf > /dev/input/input0
[01:37:45] <cradek> jthornton: I'm pretty sure using a direction pin as on/off will not work. you are assuming the direction pin stays set according to the last direction moved; I don't think this assumption is necessarily correct. each step generator may or may not do that, depending on its implementation.
[01:38:16] <cradek> (would be interesting to know whether our software stepgen does it)
[01:38:22] <kirk_wallace> I didn't do anything with privileges, just hacked the gs2 comp and lived with the resulting files as is.
[01:39:25] <SWPadnos> I didn't notice - what are the baud rate and packet size?
[01:39:43] <cradek> so you don't start it with sudo or anything, right? you've got the needed permissions to /dev/ttyS0 as a regular user?
[01:40:14] <kirk_wallace> No sudo, default user
[01:40:35] <cradek> I don't understand how it can splatter the keyboard and/or lock the machine then
[01:41:41] <SWPadnos> if it manages to type garbage for you, it can be difficult to impossible to shut it down
[01:42:23] <cradek> but what is it opening? why can it do that?
[01:43:18] <kirk_wallace> Sorry?
[01:44:44] <cradek> if it types CRs into the focused window, the working theory is that it opens something in /dev/input or it has hardware access to the ps2 keyboard ports or something similar
[01:45:31] <cradek> where can I see the rest of the code it's linked with?
[01:46:12] <SWPadnos> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/vfs11-vfd.git/tree/master has modbus.[ch]
[01:46:44] <SWPadnos> I don't know if they're significantly different from the modbus.[ch] that are already in the src/hal/user_comps (?) dir
[01:46:56] <SWPadnos> (they should be near user_comps anyway)
[01:48:36] <cradek> hm, doesn't open anything weird
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[01:49:04] <cradek> is ttyS0 a normal serial port, or a usb adapter thingy?
[01:49:17] <SWPadnos> I imagine you'd need to see kirk_wallace's config files too - some stuff is different if you set the debug option
[01:49:29] <cradek> er, that would be ttyUSB0 if so, I bet
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[01:50:34] <kirk_wallace> I do a "halrun -I h_modio_config.hal" which calls the loadusr modio and pyVCP. It seems the crash happens between modio and pyVCP or vis versa. Not having the Modio plugged in when I try the halrun seems to do it or when the PC sits for a while, but this is a guess.
[01:54:07] <SWPadnos> where is modio_config.hal?
[01:54:29] <kirk_wallace> It's right here.
[01:54:35] <kirk_wallace> Kidding
[01:54:40] <SWPadnos> oh. no wonder :)
[01:54:51] <SWPadnos> you could stick it on the wiki page or something
[01:55:05] <SWPadnos> also the vcp and the config for that
[01:55:35] <kirk_wallace> I got some of the files up there but got lazy. I can do that now.
[01:55:52] <SWPadnos> sounds good
[01:57:21] <Connor> Would a Oldham style coupling generally be chepaer than flex style ones ?
[01:58:05] <Connor> I'm trying to figure out if I have to have 2 sides + disk, or, if it comes complete.
[02:00:37] <tom3p> http://www.mcmaster.com/#oldham-couplings/=bc4jic "you need to order two hubs and one disc from the same line in the listing below"
[02:01:17] <tom3p> same page lets you compare bellows couplings
[02:01:43] <Connor> I'm using misumi-ec.com
[02:02:20] <Connor> Not sure it's the right kind for me to use.. Not sure how far off I am.. not sure if it's perfectly parallel.
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[02:03:50] <tom3p> the git book http://book.git-scm.com/ "This is meant to take you about 20 minutes" well i got an hour & a fresh cuppa :)
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[02:09:38] <SWPadnos> of all the strange things. I just found the pinout to the encoders on the pancake motors I sold a few years ago
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[02:10:36] <SWPadnos> black=ground, red=+5V, green=Z, yellow=B, blue=A (someone was asking some time in the last 6-12 months or so :) )
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[02:15:15] <Tom_sbc> what gage wire should i be using for 4A steppers?
[02:15:26] <Tom_sbc> 2.5-4
[02:18:19] <danimal_garage> cant imagine you'd need more that 10ga
[02:18:30] <Tom_sbc> omg no
[02:18:36] <danimal_garage> i think my 9.2a steppers had 10 or 12ga
[02:18:48] <Tom_sbc> the stuff they put on the original was something like 22ga
[02:18:54] <danimal_garage> ha
[02:18:55] <Tom_sbc> 2.5A driver
[02:19:08] <danimal_garage> you have a sherline, right?
[02:19:16] <Tom_sbc> i'm not sure what this wire is i have but it's prolly 16 or 14 ga
[02:19:17] <Tom_sbc> yes
[02:19:27] Tom_sbc is now known as Tom_garage
[02:19:29] <danimal_garage> you looking for a lathe? i know someone who might be selling one
[02:19:42] <Tom_garage> what sort of lathe?
[02:19:47] <danimal_garage> sherline
[02:19:50] <Tom_garage> i have an old manual lathe right now
[02:19:53] <danimal_garage> little table top one
[02:19:56] <danimal_garage> ah
[02:19:56] <Tom_garage> yeah
[02:20:04] <Connor> I use 18ga wire used for alarms.
[02:20:05] <Tom_garage> bigger than the sherline but alot older
[02:20:13] <danimal_garage> cool
[02:20:30] <danimal_garage> nothing wrong with old, my manual lathe is 100 years old
[02:20:45] <Tom_garage> hopefully soon i'll have a good pc out here. this thing is crap
[02:21:04] <danimal_garage> my cnc lathe is 33 years old
[02:21:43] <danimal_garage> older than me!
[02:23:09] <Tom_garage> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/sumo_files/lathe3.jpg
[02:23:33] <danimal_garage> nice
[02:23:43] <danimal_garage> probably pretty handy
[02:23:48] <Tom_garage> it's one you gotta know to use
[02:23:51] <Tom_garage> it's worn
[02:24:32] <danimal_garage> http://homebrewedcomponents.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/some-shop-photos/
[02:24:54] <danimal_garage> the one with the overhead belts is about a century old
[02:25:27] <cradek> jthornton: maybe I am wrong - he says a test shows it works
[02:25:34] <cradek> jthornton: I'm surprised!
[02:26:02] <danimal_garage> what works!
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[02:27:18] <Connor> I swear, I'm going to just scream.. I hate trying to source crap... Trying to find a coupler that's not going to cost me arm and leg is painful.
[02:27:28] <Tom_garage> heh
[02:27:31] <Tom_garage> still lookin?
[02:27:50] <danimal_garage> $60 for a coupler didnt seem that bad
[02:28:17] <danimal_garage> all things considered
[02:29:15] <Jymmm> $10 ebay with free shipping
[02:29:52] <danimal_garage> i need new couplers for my mill, however i may go belt drive instead and change the ratio
[02:30:54] <Connor> Yea, the $10 ebay one is what got me into this mess..
[02:31:00] <Connor> and that's a 2 to 4 week wait.
[02:31:45] <Connor> I guess what I'm looking for is the most expensive style.. I want a clamp vs set screw, in a flex, that can handle around 2.5N.m of torque.
[02:32:07] <Connor> in 8mm to 10mm around 25mm diam no longer than 34 or so mm
[02:32:48] <danimal_garage> my set screw ones are handling 640oz/in servos right now
[02:33:03] <Connor> I just don't like set screws..
[02:33:11] <danimal_garage> on a very heavy machine
[02:36:33] <kb8wmc> Yesterday, I made a z-axis touch-off plate and connected it to router table, I assigned pin 11 in stepconfig and invert the signal...all was working except kept getting errors "exceeding minimum on joint 2" ...played around with it for a while without success correcting the error...then I went about homing all the axes, and accidentally grounded the alligator clamp to the touch plate, which...
[02:36:36] <kb8wmc> ...stopped the homing operation...I restarted the homing and it completed, then when I attempted to use the auto touch-off again, it would only move in the + (up) direction...I did not find a way to correct this, anyone have idea where to look to resolve?
[02:37:31] <cradek> what do you mean when you say "use the auto touch off"?
[02:37:59] <cradek> I assume your plate is hooked to the probe input and you're using a probing move
[02:38:11] <cradek> but the devil is in the details here
[02:38:12] <kb8wmc> yes
[02:38:19] <kb8wmc> aha
[02:38:23] <danimal_garage> the exceeded minimum on joint z means it was probably going to exceed your z- limits set in the ini file
[02:38:30] <kb8wmc> hate the devil detail
[02:38:32] <danimal_garage> but you probably already know that
[02:38:55] <cradek> yes maybe the probing move was too long - you'll get that error if the endpoint is outside the Z travel
[02:39:05] <cradek> you may know it'll stop sooner, but emc doesn't know that
[02:39:08] <kb8wmc> yes, but by my calculations it should not have exceeded
[02:39:21] <kb8wmc> ok
[02:39:57] <kb8wmc> I have found that it does have a limited travel distance when invoked
[02:40:28] <kb8wmc> I tried to resolve by lowering z to slightly above plate
[02:41:29] <cradek> if you're within .5 inches, you could program g91 g38.x z-.5
[02:41:44] <kb8wmc> ok...
[02:41:49] <cradek> you can definitely probe in relative mode
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[02:42:27] <kb8wmc> the present code which I am using from another source has a z-2 already
[02:42:40] <cradek> I don't like these plates because once you touch it, it's too late to stop
[02:42:53] <kb8wmc> rgr on relative mode
[02:43:08] <cradek> they always seem to have imprints of the ends of (now broken) end mills
[02:43:09] <kb8wmc> what do you use then alternatively
[02:43:17] <cradek> well, I use a probe
[02:43:27] <cradek> if I didn't have a probe, I'd put a dial indicator in an end mill holder and use that
[02:43:52] <kb8wmc> rgr...I selected .095 soft aluminum for the plate
[02:43:52] <cradek> our applications might be totally different.
[02:44:12] <kb8wmc> router table here
[02:44:16] <danimal_garage> i still dont have a probe
[02:44:21] <cradek> oh, collets?
[02:44:27] <kb8wmc> yes
[02:44:30] <danimal_garage> i use an indicator
[02:44:36] <cradek> I'd use a dowel pin
[02:44:49] <cradek> use the jogwheel to raise the tool until the pin rolls under
[02:44:56] <cradek> takes about 5 seconds
[02:45:07] <cradek> no risk of breaking the tool, since you're moving up
[02:45:19] <danimal_garage> but my work offsets never change, so as long as my machine isnt effing up, i dont need to indicate anything
[02:45:20] <kb8wmc> I can visualize that concept
[02:45:49] <cradek> it's the safest way to measure a tool
[02:46:07] <danimal_garage> i have a 1 inch block i use for touching off z
[02:46:21] <cradek> I think jogging downward to tin foil or cigarette paper or whatever is silly - jogging up is the ticket
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[02:47:01] <cradek> with a round thing, the motion gets more sensitive as you are very close to it rolling under - think of the shape
[02:47:03] <kb8wmc> rgr, I may just disconnect it then and save the pin for something else
[02:47:03] <danimal_garage> i jog down, but i dont keep the block under when i'm jogging
[02:47:06] <Tom_garage> danimal_garage, same here or i use a 123 block
[02:47:25] <cradek> everyone should try my way! :-)
[02:47:29] <Tom_garage> some use those lighted height blocks
[02:47:30] <cradek> you'll be a convert
[02:47:49] <cradek> I like to use a .5" pin
[02:48:06] <danimal_garage> i have a heat treated and surface ground block. when i slide it on the surface, you can tell if it's clean or not by the way it feels. works great.
[02:48:28] <Tom_garage> mine's an actual gage block
[02:48:29] <danimal_garage> the block is only 1" in diameter and it's relieved underneath
[02:49:07] <danimal_garage> with the pins it's hard to feel if there's any grit uner it
[02:49:12] <danimal_garage> under
[02:49:26] <cradek> I notice each of these methods assumes a flat surface on the workpiece (or indicates the tops of whatever features)
[02:49:37] <cradek> bbl, dinner
[02:49:59] <danimal_garage> yea, my fixtures are all surface ground or blanchard ground so they're smooth
[02:50:04] <danimal_garage> adios
[02:51:27] <kb8wmc> the reason I was looking for something more automated was due mainly to ergonomics, much of what I believe future projects will be on the table are similar to the few we have done so far, that is, centered on the table which is rather large and consequently not easy to get good visibility for close work
[02:52:21] <skunkworks> I saw someone using that at the fest - (rolling a ground pin under the tool) it works very well. (now that I have a jog wheel)
[02:52:31] <skunkworks> It was either jmk or cradek
[02:52:44] <kb8wmc> rgr...
[02:52:51] <kb8wmc> I can visualize the process
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[03:26:23] <danimal_garage> i'm changing my web host, does anyone know if i can just copy all my files and folders to my new host and still have my shoppingcart software work ok? or do i actually have to install it?
[03:27:53] <Tom_garage> for paypal?
[03:28:34] <danimal_garage> no
[03:29:44] <SWPadnos> will it be a new computer that has the same DNS name?
[03:30:06] <SWPadnos> ie, different machine but as far as the rest of the world is concerned, the same host
[03:52:56] <ATxMega_> how would one get a 2250lb bridgeport off a trailer and into a garage?
[03:53:17] <SWPadnos> a boom style tow truck
[03:53:44] <SWPadnos> give the guy $50-$100 and a case of beer
[03:54:12] <ATxMega_> I could see getting it off teh trailer with that
[03:54:22] <ATxMega_> but, how do you move one once it is on the ground?
[03:54:37] <SWPadnos> is it on a pallet?
[03:54:58] <ATxMega_> nope
[03:55:16] <ATxMega_> but, they could probably put it on one...then a pallet jack would be easy enough
[03:55:30] <SWPadnos> ok, then drop it onto 6x6 beams, and then have the tow truck push it with the tow forks
[03:55:46] <SWPadnos> drop the forks low, and push slowly with the hydraulics
[03:56:02] <SWPadnos> (my guy actually backed up his truck too, he was pretty good with it)
[03:56:19] <SWPadnos> didn't tip over either a BP manual or an HNC lathe
[03:56:29] <ATxMega_> I think I'll go back to the smaller chinese ideas instead
[03:57:28] <SWPadnos> bridgeports are actually movable by hand, just stick them on 1" or so steel rods - they make nice rollers
[03:57:38] <SWPadnos> (1" diameter, a few feet long)
[03:58:02] <SWPadnos> a crowbar is also handy - just lever the thing where you want it
[04:07:59] <cradek> I slid a much larger machine on 2x4s
[04:08:02] <ATxMega_> it's in driving distance... doubt the bids will stay so favorable though http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260749027198
[04:08:12] <cradek> same idea - push at ground level with the forks
[04:08:37] <ATxMega_> if I put it on a pallet and moved it around, I'd still have to get it off the pallet
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[04:08:55] <cradek> I'd rather not have it pallet height above the ground - they are VERY tipsy
[04:09:15] <cradek> better to get it to ground level
[04:09:31] <cradek> SWPadnos is right - bridgeports roll very very easily
[04:09:40] <cradek> if the ground is level you can push it with one hand
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[05:25:09] <Jymmm> Even 1/4" solid steel rods will work too.
[05:25:57] <Jymmm> It's how we moved large safes.
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[06:14:08] <ve7it> Jymmm, .....put the ATM back where you found it
[06:14:34] <Jymmm> ve7it: Not ATM, safe/vaults
[06:14:45] <Jymmm> ve7it: Usually the concrete filled ones
[06:15:05] <ve7it> :}
[06:16:06] <Jymmm> I have some aluminum honeycomb 1/2" thick... http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/344891330/aluminum-honeycomb-core.jpg
[06:16:35] <Jymmm> I'm looking for a way to frame it perfectly square, but I can't think of any way to do it.
[06:17:00] <Jymmm> The honeycomb needs to be secured to the frame for rigidity or epoxied into it.
[06:17:03] <Jymmm> any thoughts?
[06:26:10] <ve7it> are you talking perimeter frame or covering the face(es) to make a stiff board?
[06:26:26] <Jymmm> perimimeter
[06:26:56] <Jymmm> Finish ID should be 24x12"
[06:27:14] <Jymmm> I have 25"x13" honeycomb
[06:27:21] <ve7it> it looks somwhat deformable in that configuration... does it have to be pretty?
[06:27:50] <Jymmm> If it's secured along the edges, it's rigid and flat.
[06:28:09] <Jymmm> thus if expoxied that is
[06:28:45] <Jymmm> If it's glued in, then it has to be somewhat disposable.
[06:28:52] <ve7it> cutting looks like a pain... water jet trim? then silicon sealer into a frame
[06:29:09] <Jymmm> Nah, SUPER EASY TO CUT
[06:29:32] <Jymmm> can cut a 48" in 3 seconds
[06:29:42] <Jymmm> by hand
[06:30:04] <ve7it> is it for a laser cutting bed?
[06:30:09] <Jymmm> yep
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[14:36:43] <skunkworks> EMC threads perfectly every time and is 100% reliable with no random
[14:36:55] <skunkworks> behaviour so that's a workable solution for me.
[14:37:04] <skunkworks> Steve Blackmore
[14:37:09] <skunkworks> yay!
[14:37:17] <JT-Work> Yay!
[14:40:13] * JT-Work backs up important things before gutting this computer and putting in new motherboard and other things
[14:40:24] <JT-Work> SWPadnos: are you around?
[14:40:31] <SWPadnos> kinda
[14:41:11] <JT-Work> should I just put the solid state drive in then install windoze and SW then reconnect my normal hard drive?
[14:41:27] <SWPadnos> hmm. good question :)
[14:41:45] <SWPadnos> I think Windows is usually better off if you have everything plugged in at install time
[14:41:59] <JT-Work> ok
[14:42:08] <SWPadnos> it should be obvious which drive you will install to, since the sizes and names/model numbers should be very different
[14:43:22] <SWPadnos> I don't know which will be the first drive/controller for Windows - SATA6gb or SATA3gb
[14:44:28] <JT-Work> I'll find out in a bit, gotta close this so I can back up firefox
[14:44:30] <JT-Work> thanks
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[14:51:01] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/126081
[14:52:47] <mhaberler> skunkworks: what does he mean by 'SS'?
[14:53:03] <SWPadnos> smoothstepper, most likely
[14:53:19] <mhaberler> thnx
[14:54:02] <cradek> hah, feed override "adjusts" the thread pitch
[14:55:01] <SWPadnos> 42 passes to cut a thread in Aluminum?
[14:55:19] <SWPadnos> makes a hand tap and die set look attractive
[14:55:33] <cradek> SWPadnos: if you lose your thread whenever the spindle speed changes a bit, you might want to use more passes
[14:56:20] <SWPadnos> yes, of course. it just seems like an excessive number of passes needed to get a more or less good thread under ideal conditions
[14:56:36] <Jymmm> I have some aluminum honeycomb http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/344891330/aluminum-honeycomb-core.jpg and need to come up with a perfectly square frame to give it some rigidity and needs to attach to the edges of the honeycomb. If the it needs to be epoxied in, then needs to be disposable. Any thoughts?
[14:56:41] <cradek> some people might have really poor lathes...
[14:56:48] <SWPadnos> and/or software ...
[14:56:53] <Jymmm> 1/2" thick
[14:57:03] <cradek> or, if mach can't do an angled feed-in, it's going to really suck on most lathes
[14:57:24] <skunkworks> a lot of people have mini or micro lathes
[14:57:39] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, how perfectly square are you talking a bout?
[14:57:42] <SWPadnos> about
[14:59:27] <skunkworks> The smooth stepper has its own set of problems.
[14:59:36] <skunkworks> from what I have read
[15:00:13] <SWPadnos> I did think it was funny that Art said it works well "in most cases", so why bother fixing his own code
[15:00:27] <skunkworks> heh
[15:00:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Like machinist square square
[15:01:25] <skunkworks> someone stoked the fire on the diy list - wondering why people keep trying to thread on mach. one came back and said 'because that is what I bought'
[15:02:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: maybe carpenter's square square - it's for the laser
[15:02:09] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I was just curious. I don't have any suggestions :)
[15:03:01] <Jymmm> k
[15:04:32] <Jymmm> I was thinking U Channel, but dn't know how to make a frame out of it
[15:04:54] <SWPadnos> how tall (thicK) is the honeycomb?
[15:05:00] <Jymmm> 1/2" thick
[15:05:07] <SWPadnos> oh, that's tiny
[15:05:23] <SWPadnos> U channel with L brackets on the corners
[15:05:45] <Jymmm> Too ghetto
[15:05:53] <SWPadnos> cut it at a 45 degree angle if you want it to look nice, or just go to your local art supply store and get a picture frame
[15:06:04] <Jymmm> the ID and the OD are alignment points
[15:06:19] <SWPadnos> 1/4" is thin enough to fit into a large-ish frame
[15:06:29] <SWPadnos> ?
[15:06:38] <Jymmm> 1/4" what?
[15:06:45] <SWPadnos> err, 1/2". hmmm
[15:06:49] <Jymmm> ah
[15:06:50] <SWPadnos> get two picture frames :)
[15:06:53] <SWPadnos> back to back
[15:07:02] <SWPadnos> there are simple metal ones
[15:07:04] <Jymmm> the finished ID will be 12" x 24"
[15:07:18] <Jymmm> too much slop in photo frame
[15:08:15] <Jymmm> It has to stay square when inserting/removing from the laser multiple times
[15:08:53] <Jymmm> And eventually be thrown away and replaced (the honeycomb itself that is)
[15:12:05] <SWPadnos> well, if your ghetto sense doesn't get too offended, you can use small electrical conduit - like the stuff you run on a wall surface for a single wire
[15:12:33] <Jymmm> the plastic stuff?
[15:12:45] <SWPadnos> there's metal too
[15:13:08] <Jymmm> Can it remain straight like L or U channel can?
[15:13:20] <SWPadnos> dunno. it's more or less U channel with a cover
[15:13:36] <SWPadnos> http://www.amazon.com/12x24-Stainless-Steel-Picture-Frame/dp/B003R1HUSY
[15:13:45] <Jymmm> The plastic is PVC, bad for laser.
[15:14:27] <Jymmm> That frame is coated MDF =)
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[15:15:10] <SWPadnos> heh. I wonder how they manage that
[15:15:34] <SWPadnos> looks oxymoronic: "This 12 x 24 Stainless Steel frame is made of MicroFiber Density Board"
[15:15:36] <Jymmm> They can chrome plate wood and plastics now
[15:15:58] <SWPadnos> Stainless isn't chrome ...
[15:16:03] <SWPadnos> and vise versa
[15:16:10] <Jymmm> SS LOOK
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[15:24:24] <mhaberler> a question: M2 *ends* the program.. is there some M- or G-code combination which *aborts* a program, or is that limited to external events?
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[15:38:52] * jthornton searches the screw bank for some standoffs
[15:39:53] <cradek> mhaberler: what different behavior do you want for abort?
[15:40:54] <mhaberler> none, really - I need to come up with a test what the M7X stuff does on an abort (needs to unwind the call stack, and the restores)
[15:40:58] <jthornton> cradek: I was wrong the other day about my BP it has a feed hold button not an abort button so it behaves normally just like EMC
[15:41:03] <mhaberler> hard to do a regression without that
[15:42:04] <mhaberler> it looks to me the interpreter per se has no idea what an abort is :-/
[15:44:04] <cradek> mhaberler: I think you are right
[15:44:55] <cradek> jthornton: I don't remember what you're talking about...
[15:45:50] <mhaberler> I guess I need to call into the interp from emctask on abort anyway, and see if old stack frames are lying around to be undone
[15:45:58] <mhaberler> still not sure how to regress that
[15:46:22] <jthornton> ok nevermind
[15:46:46] <cradek> mhaberler: yeah I don't think our tests can test that kind of thing currently.
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[16:39:52] <krushia> is there a channel where industrial control engineers hang out?
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[16:50:00] <anonimasu> krushia: well, why dont you try in here?
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[17:27:14] <krushia> well, i'm looking for a lockout wedge for ABB Tmax circuit breakers
[17:27:36] <anonimasu> hm, did you call abb?
[17:29:43] <krushia> they don't have any. they sell a replacement faceplate that has a locking hasp on it, but to use it out have to tear the breaker abart, drill two holes in it, then screw this thing on from the inside and put it all back together again
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[17:36:17] <bill20r3> sounds like a pain.
[17:36:35] <atmega> lock the door
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[17:39:00] <danimal_garage> so i didnt get the realtime delay error and my pc didnt reboot with the screensaver stuff off
[17:39:08] <danimal_garage> so it's definitely related to that
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[17:39:20] <danimal_garage> weeeeiiirrrdd
[17:47:55] <pcw_home> so your fancy schmancy screensaver busted everything?
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[18:02:49] <danimal_garage> pcw_home, i dont know if it was the actual selected screensaver, or just the screensaver or power management stuff in general
[18:03:37] <pcw_home> Well power management in general is usually bad news for real time
[18:03:56] <danimal_garage> yea
[18:04:18] <danimal_garage> so how should i protect my monitor?
[18:04:33] <pcw_home> protect it from what?
[18:04:34] <danimal_garage> i dont want to leave it on 24/7
[18:04:48] <danimal_garage> std's
[18:04:55] <pcw_home> Get an LED back light version and 24/7 is no problem
[18:05:06] <atmega> turn it off
[18:06:20] <skunkworks> you could have a button that would run an i/o pin that turns the monitor of!
[18:06:22] <skunkworks> off!
[18:06:24] <danimal_garage> i cant believe having it turn off the monitor after x amount of minutes is too much to ask
[18:07:20] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: running the latency test when it happens doesn't show anyting?
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[18:09:09] <danimal_garage> nope
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[18:09:16] <pcw_home> Well if they video driver was not so clever (and it just turned off the sync signals on timeout instead of having a conversation with the monitor)
[18:09:18] <pcw_home> it would probably be OK
[18:09:33] <danimal_garage> yea
[18:09:42] <danimal_garage> goes to show advancement isnt always best
[18:10:14] <skunkworks> the latency doesn't go up at all?
[18:10:29] <pcw_home> Maybe you can disable DDC and hardwire the video mode (like th old X days)
[18:10:30] <skunkworks> (durring the monitor shutoff)
[18:11:11] <danimal_garage> skunkworks, i dont know i didnt test that yet
[18:11:20] <skunkworks> well? ;)
[18:11:22] <danimal_garage> hard to shut emc down
[18:11:28] <danimal_garage> got too much backlog :)
[18:11:35] <skunkworks> heh
[18:11:37] <danimal_garage> i'll do it as soon as i can
[18:12:22] <danimal_garage> i didnt realize is was the screensaver till yesterday
[18:19:43] <andypugh> skunkworks: Do you want one? https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs?pli=1&gsessionid=DsvhdNDMkvXGDfeDXw49Sw#5581775140154064946
[18:20:38] <andypugh> It's an Arduino shield for exciting resolvers and measuring what comes back. It might well work with Accupins.
[18:21:46] <skunkworks> andypugh: cool - are those the ones you made up?
[18:21:55] <skunkworks> have you tried them yet?
[18:22:26] <andypugh> They just arrived today from Hong Kong (at $4 each)
[18:23:14] <mk0> 2.6.34-rt
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[18:23:54] <andypugh> I have got as far as discovering that my 9-way D-Subs are not _exactly_ the one that the library assumes, they are just that bit too tight a fit in the snap-lock holes.
[18:23:55] <skunkworks> nice!
[18:24:13] <andypugh> Easy fix, with a file.
[18:24:16] <skunkworks> (well - thats not nice...)
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[18:30:34] <Connor> exciting resolvers ? what exactly is that ?
[18:31:05] <skunkworks> I think they are exciting... ;)
[18:32:59] <andypugh> It has a digital filter/buffer so that the Arduino can produce a sine wave to drive the primary of a resolver. Then it measures the sine/cosinevoltages induced in the secondaries.
[18:33:45] <Connor> yea, the resolver is what I didn't know what you was talking about..
[18:33:49] <andypugh> Sorry, I don't mean a digital filter, I mean an active filter.
[18:34:12] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolver_(electrical)
[18:34:33] <andypugh> It is a common alternative to an encoder for measuring servo motor rotor position.
[18:36:26] <Connor> Ah. okay.
[18:37:10] <skunkworks> andypugh: was the issues you had - shield/noise related?
[18:37:12] <andypugh> They are tough, reliable, absolute and a bit of a pain to connect to EMC2
[18:37:16] <atmega> for some reason, compumotor systems with resolvers are spec'ed at slightly higher torque ratings than the same ones with encoders
[18:37:59] <andypugh> I am hoping it was noise, I have been waiting for these properly shielded boards with shielded connectors in order to try again.
[18:38:02] <pcw_home> resolvers have a higher temperature limit than encoders
[18:38:56] <atmega> guess that might be where they get it... the parker rep didn't know
[18:39:25] <andypugh> I have just realised, I can now set up in direct competition to Mesa in the hotly-contested resolver-convertor-for-EMC2 market :-)
[18:39:59] <skunkworks> and JonE! cage match!
[18:40:15] <pcw_home> Ha Ha
[18:40:36] <skunkworks> andypugh: yours is 3 axis?
[18:40:36] <andypugh> Some kind of bizarre cage-based nerd-off?
[18:40:48] <andypugh> Aye, should do three axes.
[18:40:48] <skunkworks> *3 resolvers?
[18:40:49] <Jymmm> hexipod match!
[18:43:28] <skunkworks> andypugh: what else do you need to make one work?
[18:44:59] <andypugh> Arduino, the components, and the right software.
[18:45:23] <skunkworks> heh
[18:45:36] <Jymmm> can anyone get to http://www.hawkridgesys.com/
[18:46:05] <skunkworks> waiting for...
[18:46:06] <skunkworks> no
[18:46:14] <Jymmm> ty
[18:46:28] <andypugh> It's easy to plug the arduino into a USB port and see if there is any useful/usable information coming back
[18:49:00] <andypugh> Anyone like to look at dmesg? This is from a guy on the forum with a Bridgeport VMC retrofit http://pastebin.com/j7BjxPnR
[18:50:39] <cradek> what's the question
[18:50:56] <cradek> #
[18:50:56] <cradek> [ 40.265234] RTAI[math]: loaded.
[18:50:56] <cradek> #
[18:50:59] <cradek> [ 48.056407] RTAI[math]: unloaded.
[18:51:08] <cradek> rtai ran for 8 seconds. probably nothing wrong in dmesg.
[18:51:33] <andypugh> I was hoping for a clue earlier in the file.
[18:52:09] <andypugh> It is giving a bunch of waiting for s.axes errors, then quitting. It does it with every sample config.
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[18:54:24] <Jymmm> Bah, how to you replay history? /34 ???
[18:54:57] <cradek> he says it's a 6 core machine. seemed like moses said this rtai version/build has trouble with those.
[18:55:14] <skunkworks> yes - I remember that also.
[18:55:40] <andypugh> Ah, yes. do you recall a solution?
[18:55:56] <cradek> he could use the hardy build - it runs on everything
[18:56:17] <skunkworks> none that I know of. If I recal corectly - it was corrected in later rtai kernals - but I don't think anyone has tested it.
[18:56:24] <cradek> or just get a different computer
[18:56:27] <skunkworks> and what cradek said
[18:57:31] <cradek> if he wants to trade his 6-core for a P3 that's guaranteed to work, he can contact me
[18:58:23] <andypugh> Yeah, I just told him to buy a D510MO
[18:59:19] <pcw_home> tell him not to use the screensaver on the d510...
[18:59:35] <Jymmm> Ah.... !34
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[19:22:41] <skunkworks> I have actually run 10.04 on a 4 core amd with no issues. runs the latency test just fine
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[19:45:11] <JT-Shop> I watched a demo of a Tolomatic linear actuator that used a tiny stepper with an encoder tacked on to the back...You could select "Absolute End Point" in the drive and it would add or subtract a step or three at the end of the move to bring it exactly into position
[19:47:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: A closed loop stepper, heh
[19:48:21] <JT-Shop> yea, sorta
[19:48:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I thought jmc said it can't be done?
[19:48:51] <JT-Shop> guess it can
[19:49:18] <JT-Shop> when someone tells me I can't do something I just try harder :)
[19:49:25] <Jymmm> The stepers I got (used) have encoders on the back of them too
[19:50:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Wanna see the torque curve?
[19:51:39] <JT-Shop> sure
[19:51:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ---------------------------------------
[19:51:51] <Jymmm> there ya go
[19:51:57] <JT-Shop> heh
[19:52:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'm serious, it's flat across the board, strange huh
[19:53:36] <atmega> you can do closed loop steppers, but what's the point
[19:54:34] <atmega> generating following errors
[19:55:18] <Jymmm> ferrors is a EMC thing is it not?
[19:55:52] <atmega> it's not emc specific if that's what you mean
[19:56:24] <Jymmm> Well, I see it used in industrial applications, so there must be some merit to it.
[19:57:01] <atmega> if all you care about is where you end up, not how well you got there.
[19:58:29] <Jymmm> sometimes thats all that matters I'd suspect.
[19:58:57] <atmega> An encoder on the motor shaft would seem to be the least accurate way to do it. Better to have the encoder on the driven part.
[20:00:43] <JT-Shop> that would be like corner rounding if you don't need to be in an exact position all the time it works
[20:01:24] <atmega> yeah. but in your demo... what caused it to need to make up those steps. what stalled?
[20:05:44] <JT-Shop> it was just a feature that he showed me, he didn't have a way to demo that. as I recall it was a way to fix a microstep error
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[20:57:07] <L84Supper> I have RTAI running with EMC on a 6 core AMD in 64bit with no problems
[20:57:57] <skunkworks> I know my i7 4 core doesn't work.. (it is hyperthreaded...) but it is a laptop - so who cares :)
[20:58:12] <psha> skunkworks: 4 core hyperthreaded is 8 core
[20:58:16] <L84Supper> night just be BIOS settings
[20:58:22] <L84Supper> might even
[20:58:22] <skunkworks> psha: right
[20:58:24] <psha> there is limitation somewhere between 6 and 8
[20:58:42] <andypugh> If you feel like posting to the forum thread..
[20:59:35] <psha> bb all
[20:59:40] <L84Supper> skunkworks: what does it do? Not even start?
[21:00:10] <andypugh> It gives that "waiting for s.axes" error a brazillion times, then EMC2 quits
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[21:01:36] <L84Supper> we don't keep any Intel cpu's or boards around here anymore, if anyone sends us a loaner we'll get it working
[21:04:28] <mozmck_work> L84Supper: I wasn't using 64bit, but I don't know if that makes a difference. I'd like to see your kernel config.
[21:05:11] <mozmck_work> I could get the rtai realtime test to run once after startup, then not again.
[21:05:39] <mozmck_work> the emc latency test showed 0 for everything.
[21:06:16] <mozmck_work> I haven't tried a newer rtai since I made the packages either.
[21:06:56] <skunkworks> well - this is interesting. I booted of the latest livecd - my laptop seems to be working fine. (crappy latency aside)
[21:07:08] <L84Supper> I had that problem until we turned off "advanced clock calibration" in the factory BIOS
[21:09:16] <L84Supper> mozmck_work: we'll post the latest kernel config later or it might be at http://neo-technical.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/x86/PKGBUILDS/rtai-kernel/rtai-kernel64.config
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[21:12:59] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/latency.png
[21:13:40] <L84Supper> ouch
[21:14:58] <L84Supper> skunkworks: which BIOS is on that?
[21:16:39] <mrsunshine_> wth
[21:16:40] <mrsunshine_> =)
[21:16:50] <mozmck_work> L84Supper: thanks. I may look at that again here if I can find some time (where did that go now?... I had it around here somewhere I thought...)
[21:19:15] <L84Supper> mozmck_work: we are working on updating RTAI for ARM now, PCIe and SDIO is fast enough for FPGA on some of the tablets and netbooks
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[21:25:06] <mozmck_work> interesting. what kind of work do you do?
[21:25:50] <mozmck_work> I had the idea of trying xenomai, because it already has ports for several ARM variants. No time yet for that either.
[21:26:30] <micges> L84Supper: there was someone that started the same task, half year ago it was mentioned on emc list
[21:28:01] <L84Supper> we found much of the ARM linux work to be quite a mess, so we just started from scratch, now we have a complete toolchain with QEMU and even ARM gcc on x86
[21:28:07] <skunkworks> L84Supper: it is a dell xps.
[21:29:05] <L84Supper> micges: yeah they ever quite finished
[21:29:16] <L84Supper> never/ever
[21:29:24] <micges> I see
[21:29:53] <skunkworks> (laptop - so it won't be used for machine control)
[21:30:06] <Jymmm> it could
[21:32:49] * JT-Shop is making some 6-32 standoffs with perfect threads right up to the shoulder with EMC2 :)
[21:34:41] <JT-Shop> when I press the start button in Axis I get an "exceeds limits" error but when I press the cycle start on the machine I get no error. any ideas?
[21:35:13] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Cool, cna you make me some 2-56 standoffs about 1" long or so?
[21:35:47] <JT-Shop> fully threaded I bet
[21:35:57] <Jymmm> 2-56 on the shaft end, 4-40 on the hole end
[21:36:07] <micges> limits of whole program is checked only in Axis
[21:36:53] <JT-Shop> hmm, but it is not out of limits and runs
[21:37:02] <micges> cycle start is thru halui which doesn't do that
[21:37:07] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: smallest pitch I can do is 48TPI
[21:37:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Bummer
[21:37:34] <micges> JT-Shop: it is checked with actual tool size
[21:37:50] <micges> s/size/width
[21:37:51] <JT-Shop> maybe I need to give it a bit more room on the X limits
[21:39:04] <JT-Shop> micges: thanks that gives me something to look for
[21:39:43] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: you could tap it 2-56 and put a set screw in for the male threads
[21:40:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Nah, really just need a long 2-56 screw, can find locally yet
[21:44:37] <Jymmm> can't
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[22:13:44] <L84Supper> https://www.genesi-usa.com/products/smartbook $199, there are also some 10" ARM tablets about the same price with SDIO or PCIe
[22:14:10] <JT-Shop> WOW! I just threaded a 6-32 at 1500 RPM... I left g97 on LOL and the threads were perfect
[22:14:36] <L84Supper> we should have EMC working on these by summer along with FPGA over SDIO
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[22:27:00] <JT-Shop> micges: a bit more X in the max limit fixed it, thanks
[22:27:18] <micges> cool, welcome
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[22:33:27] <Tom_itx> cpresser_
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[22:47:55] <JT-Shop> I actually made some headway with my MAX6675/Arduino project
[22:48:02] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/arduino/max6675/max6675.xhtml
[22:48:36] <Tom_itx> nice
[22:49:23] <bill20r3> you're getting temps into emc w/ max6675 via an arduino?
[22:49:52] <bill20r3> what's it for?
[22:50:36] <JT-Shop> this one is for a smoker controller but yes you can monitor temps in EMC too
[22:50:59] <bill20r3> some of the reprap firmwares have code for that, btw.
[22:51:05] <JT-Shop> I'm using a multiplexer to connect 4 thermocouples to one MAX6675
[22:51:09] <bill20r3> neat.
[22:51:24] <bill20r3> does the multiplexer affect the readings at all?
[22:51:45] <bill20r3> I actually have chips to do that, but I never did it. :-(
[22:51:58] <JT-Shop> I'm not the first to do it so I guess not, there is a commercial example using the same set up as me
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[22:52:18] <JT-Shop> I think the key is keep things close together
[22:53:37] <JT-Shop> a few more wires to connect up and I can start testing
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[23:23:49] <Jymmm> cradek: You've been linked to http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/hershey
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