#emc | Logs for 2011-03-03

[00:01:18] <kirk_wallace> I don't know what this lathe is. There are no marks or hints, It's totally worn out and very poorly made, but I can't help but want to restore it, just to see it run.
[00:02:57] <andypugh> This looks identical to mine, (top left picture) http://www.chainganger.co.uk/T2000/T2000.html
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[00:04:13] <andypugh> Hmm, why not CNC that, it is pretty hopeless as it is.
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[00:04:24] <andypugh> (and I meant the other left)
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[00:11:35] <andypugh> Look at the bottom of that last link I posted, there is a really neat bit of in-situ machining.
[00:11:44] <kirk_wallace> Personally I would restore it to original condition. Don't forget that the world got by without CNC for a long time. I am amazed my some of the work done in the early 1900's. All that's needed is a tight spindle and straight ways. I think I can fix the bearings and make new gears for my lathe but the ways have got me stumped so far. The cost of shipping the bed and grinding the ways can be justified, even by me. I may try what Jon did with his lathe
[00:12:13] <JT-Shop> do I see a motorcycle behind all that neat stuff?
[00:13:51] <andypugh> Behind all what stuff?
[00:14:52] <davec_> Plastic: http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q110/cevad/CNC%20mill/d_026827.jpg
[00:15:34] <JT-Shop> kirk's
[00:15:58] <kirk_wallace> Up until a couple of months ago I had six in the shop. I'm down to two and a half. 73' 750-4, Kawaski 250 dirt bike and lots of bits.
[00:16:51] <JT-Shop> I'd like to find a 350 scrambler in decent shape, they were fun to ride
[00:17:27] <andypugh> In the background of my toolchanger video there is a GasGas 200. I also have an R1 and (in the shed, in bits, needing a total restoration) a 1923 Ner-a-Car
[00:17:35] <kirk_wallace> In that picture are four if you know where to look.
[00:18:13] <JT-Shop> I can pick out 2 pretty quick
[00:18:19] <andypugh> http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/1922-neracar-modela.jpg
[00:18:33] <JT-Shop> nice
[00:19:18] <andypugh> Possibly the maddest production vehicle ever.
[00:19:23] <kirk_wallace> You _must_ get that going again.
[00:20:26] <andypugh> Aye, some day. Step 1: De-rivet the chassis, patch, re-rivet...
[00:21:09] <JT-Shop> 8' of shingles left on the shop roof to go :)
[00:21:19] <andypugh> Why did you stop?
[00:21:28] <JT-Shop> can't see too dark
[00:21:39] <andypugh> And are you going to put a proper roof over the shingles?
[00:21:46] <JT-Shop> no
[00:21:56] <JT-Shop> I don't care I won't live that long
[00:22:45] <andypugh> http://www.bodgesoc.org/roof2.jpg (a few dozen tons of sandstone roofing)
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[00:23:14] <JT-Shop> that will be there for a while
[00:23:20] <kirk_wallace> Just in case, the four cycles are, 1 red tank Honda 250 dirt, 2 green tank Kawi dirt, wheels under lathe bed, 750-4 and VF500 (my baby, but now gone:(
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[00:23:31] <andypugh> It's been there since 1450 already...
[00:24:25] <andypugh> I can see the attraction of shingles, it took us months, not days.
[00:24:53] <andypugh> (And the dog was almost no help at all)
[00:28:27] <andypugh> Empirically it seems that three glasses of Chartreuse (I was in Grenoble last weekend) is enough to make it seem like a good idea to buy a secone Wohlhaupter boring head.
[00:28:43] <JT-Shop> a smaller one I hope
[00:28:56] <andypugh> Yes. Time will tell if it is small enough.
[00:29:08] <JT-Shop> yea, I have to stay off of flea bay when drinking
[00:29:20] <JT-Shop> last time I bought a VMC
[00:29:56] <andypugh> I just found this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190507907972
[00:30:41] <andypugh> Local, cheap. I could set it all up with a PC and EMC2 and sell for only a small loss
[00:30:58] <JT-Shop> good time sink I think
[00:31:43] <JT-Shop> at least you have proper scaffolding while you stone the roof
[00:32:57] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Shop%20Addition/P3010020.jpg
[00:34:37] <andypugh> Loading shovels make great scaffolding!
[00:34:38] <Tom_itx> wanna know what's wrong with that picture?
[00:34:49] <Tom_itx> i see daylight and nobody on the roof!
[00:35:06] <JT-Shop> it's a trick photo
[00:35:15] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:35:29] <JT-Shop> very rapidly sinking to the right of the dog
[00:35:48] <JT-Shop> what do you think of this profile http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_comprofiler/task,userProfile/Itemid,17/user,2824/lang,english/
[00:35:56] <andypugh> That's a lovely workshop. Either there is no Mrs JT or you got lucky.
[00:36:16] <JT-Shop> oh yes there is a Mrs and a MIL
[00:37:19] <JT-Shop> do you think that guy is a spammer?
[00:37:33] <andypugh> He is either a bot, or, possibly, using a 2-byte character set.
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[00:39:13] <JT-Shop> how would you use a 2-byte character set?
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[00:41:18] <JT-Shop> on the stats it says latest member is kdv
[00:41:37] <Tom_itx> not for long
[00:46:39] <andypugh> Unicode allows 2 bytes for (for example) chinese and Kanji
[00:47:26] <JT-Shop> ok
[00:48:58] <andypugh> Don't get me wrong, I will be astonished if it isn't a spammer.
[00:49:49] <JT-Shop> I'll just wait an see... if you see first you can delete it too
[00:52:59] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/unload-308/unload-308.xhtml
[00:53:55] <andypugh> Which came first? The VMC or the workshop plan?
[00:54:58] <JT-Shop> LOL the VMC and the CHNC and the plasma and...
[00:55:15] <JT-Shop> ie the garage is full to the rafters
[00:56:04] <andypugh> You can probably make a modest living from the VMC.
[00:56:37] <JT-Shop> actually I make some expensive one off parts on it
[00:57:11] <andypugh> Which reminds me: Does anyone know of a cheap 3D printing outfit? ie, STL goes in, parts get posted out?
[00:57:45] <JT-Shop> as you can see there is very little room for the wife's Honda http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/garage/P1010066.jpg
[00:57:50] <Tom_itx> i don't know about cheap but i know someone that bought one
[00:58:00] <Tom_itx> i'm sure he'd share his experience
[00:58:06] <andypugh> JT http://gnipsel.com/shop/machine-shop.xhtml is broken, I think
[00:58:22] <JT-Shop> works for me
[00:58:58] <JT-Shop> try a refresh
[00:58:58] <Tom_itx> http://www.huv.com/blog/2009/09/3d-printer.html
[00:59:00] <andypugh> I only get an actual link for the VMC unload, other left-side links are to the same page
[00:59:10] <Tom_itx> http://www.dimensionprinting.com/
[00:59:47] <JT-Shop> oh I've not completed those links sorry
[01:00:09] <JT-Shop> just got that page up yesterday
[01:00:35] <andypugh> We have a really good set of them at work, including CAD to Cast iron or Ali (we can make a new cylinder head in less than a day, which is an incredible advance on justa few years ago)
[01:01:02] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what type of parts do you want printed?
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[01:01:38] <mhaberler> JT-Shop: you're not takling prisoners on machine size, are you?
[01:01:45] <andypugh> A friend wants some motorbike mirror mount adaptors (GSXR750 mirrors on an SV650)
[01:01:58] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: ?
[01:02:06] <Tom_itx> would plastic be strong enough for that?
[01:02:14] <mhaberler> majore metal masses...
[01:02:24] <andypugh> I sort of offered to mill them, but they are starting to look complicated. But then she is very cute.
[01:02:42] <Tom_itx> jhylands will do them for you
[01:02:57] <Tom_itx> i think he's pretty reasonable as 3d printing goes
[01:03:13] <JT-Shop> time to check on chow, talk to you guys later
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[01:04:54] <andypugh> I wonder if Sam wants to 5-axis his K&T? http://www.lathes.co.uk/bridgeport/page13.html
[01:05:22] <Valen> cute?
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[01:06:12] <Valen> ahh
[01:06:19] <Valen> mmmm motorbike chicks
[01:06:31] * Valen 's missus is one
[01:07:11] <Valen> andypugh: how much $ for an Al cylinder head?
[01:07:19] <Valen> if I provide the STL ;->
[01:07:23] <andypugh> We don't care :-)
[01:07:38] <Valen> and is that a cast head or is it one of those fused ones?
[01:09:01] <andypugh> As far as I know there is no scope for "homers".
[01:09:02] <andypugh> It is layer bonded sand, then conventional casting.
[01:09:07] <andypugh> The machine makes a sand mould, but all in one piece, with runners etc.
[01:09:07] <Valen> thats really rather cool
[01:11:59] * Valen wanted to make a head with electronic valving
[01:12:00] <andypugh> It probably helps to explain why a modern diesel is 100hp per litre, whereas 30 years ago that was racing motorcycle tune.
[01:12:00] <Valen> that and CFD
[01:12:01] <Valen> either one by it self wouldn't do it, but together it'd be good
[01:12:01] <andypugh> Actually, mainly electronic management.
[01:12:01] <Valen> probably all of them are a factor
[01:12:01] <Valen> better materials too
[01:12:40] <andypugh> I like the idea of an electronically valved turbo-diesel that progressively, cylinder by cylinder, switches to 2-stroke operation as the boost rises.
[01:13:30] <Valen> I still like petrol but hey if its electrically valved and built heavy enough why not do both
[01:14:32] <andypugh> Honda sort-of did in the 80s.
[01:14:51] <Valen> i believe humvees can run on pretty much anything you can pour into the tanks
[01:15:13] <Valen> opening the exhaust valve on a diesel electronically would not be easy
[01:15:46] <Valen> I like the idea of having differential compression and expansion, so you can "half fill" the cylinder
[01:15:55] <Valen> but let it expand to near atmospheric
[01:16:18] <Valen> but without a butterfly valve so no pumping losses
[01:17:30] <andypugh> The Honda CRM250 AR was a 2-stroke offroad motorcycle. In some parts of the speed/load range it didn't actually activate the spark, but instead used the exhaust trapping valve to retain active radicals in the cylinder to allow compression ignition.
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[01:20:35] <andypugh> bottom of page 20 here http://www-erd.llnl.gov/FuelsoftheFuture/pdf_files/hccirtc.pdf
[01:21:07] <Valen> electrical valving will make a big difference
[01:21:13] <Valen> but probably too little too late
[01:21:20] <Valen> electric cars are where its going
[01:22:30] <Tom_itx> that just moves the energy source to a coal fired electric plant
[01:22:43] <Valen> nuculur power made of win
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[01:23:03] <Valen> just need to stop wussing out over making plutonium and use all the energy in the fuel
[01:23:42] <andypugh> If we could nuke LA, so allowing sane NOx linits (ie eliminate folk who take the car to visit the next door neighbours, while living in a windless bowl in the sunniest place on earth) then turbo-diesels could be giving 60+ mpg.
[01:25:11] <andypugh> My ideal scenario is fusion power (or thorium fission) being used to synthesise hydrocarbon fuels from atmospheric CO2.
[01:26:02] <Valen> I'd like that too, but you still would have to worry about global warming
[01:26:14] <Valen> just due to the amount of energy you throw at the problem lol
[01:26:36] <andypugh> Our actual _power_ output is trivial.
[01:27:11] <Valen> see how it goes if you start doing that lol ;->
[01:27:14] <andypugh> compared to insolation. The problem is that we can massively affect insolation
[01:27:27] <Valen> well we stop radiation is more the issue
[01:27:47] <Valen> the other issue is with the processing Co2 and making hydrocarbons is you still get all the smog issues
[01:28:00] <Valen> the new lithium batteries however look really rather good
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[01:37:45] <andypugh> 9% of radiative heat loss is prevented by C02, despite the fact it is 0.4%(?) of the atmosphere. Doubling that (and we unequivocally have, argue climate models as you like, but we have provably doubled atmospheric CO2) and you would expect a 4% temperature rise. Sounds nice, but bear in mind we sit at 293k or 527F absolute.
[01:37:45] <andypugh> \
[01:37:45] <andypugh> Back on topic, I love the LiIon batteries in my cordless drill so much that I cut the plug off my mains drill to use for something else.
[01:37:46] <skunkworks> cordless in general.. but they keep getting better
[01:37:47] <andypugh> Basically the LiIon cordless is always ready to go, unlike ye olde worlde nicad one, and is actualy more powerful. The same battery, in the circular saw, cut 6" width of 1" Aluminium bar and still showed "Good" on the charge level button.
[01:37:47] <skunkworks> nice
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[01:37:48] <skunkworks> I usually just had enough batteries and chargers to keep ahead ;)
[01:38:07] <andypugh> Less nice was that I managed to fill the world (including my underpants) with tiny slivers of ali)
[01:38:55] <andypugh> This was actually with the standard wood-cutting blade, by the way
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[01:40:34] <davec_> I still want to know why it's cheaper to buy a new drill than a replacement (or second) battery!
[01:41:44] <ds3> drills have negative value? ;)
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[01:42:40] <davec_> Hmm, it was a cheapie, but I dont think it was that cheap.
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[01:43:35] <andypugh> I am trapped in the Ryobi One+ system. I buy the new tools bare. I only have one battery but it seems to be enough.
[01:43:45] <ds3> or maybe entire drill sets are subsidized by battery sales?
[01:44:50] <ds3> btw, anyone know of a procedure to square the X/Y axises? kind of like what tramming does for the Z axis
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[01:55:04] <andypugh> ds3: It only matters if you want X to be 90 degrees to Y. X will still be accurate, parallel etc to itself, as will Y.
[01:56:36] <andypugh> I think you need a known-square block on the table, and a DTI on the quill at 45 degrees to both.
[01:59:20] <andypugh> There is a huge problem, though. If the axis of rotation of each axis is the projection of the point of the DTI, you will see no deflection even if the ways are very out of true.
[02:02:23] <andypugh> So (thinking out loud). I think you need to centre a mandrel of a diameter less than the range of your spindle-mounted DTI under the spindle. Then centre the mandrel under the DTI such that it reads the same all the way round the mandrel circumference
[02:03:20] <andypugh> You then need to move/set the DTI to read exactly the radius of the mandrel. Now zero in the DTI is the exact centre of the spindle,
[02:06:16] <andypugh> Now, you can rotate the DTI and spindle, and know that the tangent of the ball on the end of the DTI is the centre of the spindle. This means that you can run the point round a known-square object on the table, and are free to rotate the spindle to contact the faces of the test object at a convenient angle.
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[02:08:01] <andypugh> At this point any translation of Y that shows a change in X if the DTI is pointing along the X axis indicates a lack of Y-absolute squareness, and ditto for X.
[02:09:20] <andypugh> Bear in mind that as long as X andY are square to each other in the case of a vertical mill, that is all that matters.
[02:10:57] <andypugh> And so to bed... Night all.
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[06:08:24] <WalterN> nice
[06:08:32] <WalterN> my boss is letting me borrow his slide rule
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[06:48:41] <Connor> wOOt.. Got a Zero Cross detection circuit going without burning out my resistors..
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[07:28:56] <mrsunshine> hmm, since i mounted the stepper drivers in the pc case im getting non even sounds from the motors...
[07:30:06] <mrsunshine> ofc, have to try it without load from the screws to be sure its not just something there that does the msis sound :P
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[10:53:49] <mk0> is it possible to set a direction for arc in autocad?
[10:53:53] <mk0> Or qcad
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[11:16:05] <elmo40> + or - ?
[11:17:07] <elmo40> what do you mean direction?
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[11:21:28] <mk0> in which way sector of a circle will be cut
[11:22:20] <mk0> the starting point
[11:28:47] <elmo40> i dont think that has anything to do with how you draw it in autocad... that is your cam software
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[12:56:40] <ries> KimK: thanks!
[12:56:44] <ries> I will glance over it shortly
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[13:17:46] <mrsunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia8bUmyyiKk that was a quite nice device =)
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[13:29:46] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/shop/shop-foundation/foundation.xhtml
[13:48:19] <atmega328> http://www.engineeringtv.com/video/Hybrid-Motion-Drive-Technology
[13:50:20] <jthornton> atmega328: hi
[13:52:15] <atmega328> hola
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[13:53:01] <jthornton> I'm having fun diving off into SPI land with my Ardunio :)
[13:53:03] <archivist> jthornton, this roofing is catching, I had to redo shed felt yesterday
[13:53:25] <jthornton> roll roofing?
[13:53:43] <atmega328> cool, my first external device was an SPI A/D
[13:54:16] <archivist> yes, not shingles like yours
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[13:56:04] <jthornton> there is a library for the MAX6675 for the Ardunio but I want to try and use the real SPI pins on the Ardunio
[13:56:34] <atmega328> it's pretty trivial, 'just works', in my experience
[13:56:42] <jthornton> cool
[13:57:33] * jthornton is off to the shop now
[13:58:13] <atmega328> http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=269&zenid=5a9b6124a8f42732344daa092cff779a
[14:09:22] <skunkworks> cradek: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/125814
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[14:18:29] <archivist> bresenham is common in graphics, not seen interrupts abused that way
[14:19:11] <SWPadnos> that's (more or less) how early RT implementations worked in Linux
[14:20:06] <SWPadnos> the RT module would increase the interrupt rate, and would only run the normal scheduler every N interrupts, or use a counter overflow for fractional values of N
[14:20:16] <JT-Shop> atmega328: that is the library I will start with to get it up and running
[14:20:22] <SWPadnos> (at least that's how I wrote one, all those years ago ;) )
[14:20:56] <atmega328> I meant the board
[14:21:55] <JT-Shop> oh, I just soldered it to my proto board http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Arduino/SolderMax6675.jpg
[14:23:43] <JT-Shop> my first SMT solder job :)
[14:23:55] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: interesting
[14:28:43] <mrsunshine> freakin chinese people!
[14:29:05] <mrsunshine> so ive got the column stand and the table perfectly straight, i put on the column again and its freakin off by like 5mm at the bottom compared to the top :P
[14:29:19] <mrsunshine> so as the column stand was crooked they just figured, lets make the stand crooked :P
[14:29:32] <mrsunshine> and so they went on with their machining and ... well ....
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[14:31:11] <mrsunshine> atleast got it straight as far as i can do it now without any tools more then a cut piece of sheet metal :P
[14:41:24] <JT-Shop> got a photo of it mrsunshine ?
[14:42:15] <mrsunshine> JT-Shop, of the machine and how crooked it is? :P
[14:42:31] <JT-Shop> yea
[14:42:39] <Jymmm> cradek: http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=39&products_id=194&zenid=5a9b6124a8f42732344daa092cff779a
[14:42:54] <mrsunshine> JT-Shop, well ive got stuff straight now :P
[14:43:10] <mrsunshine> and forgot to take a photo of it when it wasnt machined by me =)
[14:43:31] <mrsunshine> but it was off about 0.2mm or so from the start of the column stand to the back of it when i got it up in the machine
[14:43:47] <mrsunshine> and the table was warped on the long side so it looked like ) :P
[14:44:11] <JT-Shop> what a mess
[14:44:15] <mrsunshine> mmhmm
[14:44:37] <mrsunshine> hopefully stuff will be straight down to the hundreds now atleast =)
[14:44:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=46&zenid=5a9b6124a8f42732344daa092cff779a
[14:46:13] <mrsunshine> oh well, atleast its posible to get it straight, had to chim up the pilar for now tho, so i can machine the new stand for it =)
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[15:31:10] <Connor> I really like the older Pololu programmer..
[15:31:28] <Connor> Works very good with Linux, Windows, and Mac
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[15:36:47] <Jymmm> Is that a GPS on your keychain or are you just happy to see me... http://www.amazon.com/Audiovox-ECCO-Personal-Pocket-Locator/dp/B003TFDTM4/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header
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[15:53:24] <mrsunshine> hmm, hard to get this machine to be straight :P
[15:53:32] <mrsunshine> or, according to the indicator it is
[15:53:39] <mrsunshine> maybe
[15:53:48] <Jymmm> what machine?
[15:53:50] <mrsunshine> tho i have now got the motor on it, so might have to tweak it even more now :P
[15:53:53] <mrsunshine> Jymmm, my X1
[15:54:09] <Jymmm> factory bad, or used bad?
[15:54:14] <mrsunshine> factory bad
[15:54:31] <Jymmm> ah
[15:55:08] <mrsunshine> but its gonna be aight when i get a new column mount and put on some extra strengthening stuff :P
[15:56:06] <mrsunshine> BUT, i forgot to measure the holes ...
[15:56:13] <mrsunshine> distance betwene them etc :/
[15:56:36] <psha> mrsunshine: you may always fix that in kinematics ;)
[15:56:48] <mrsunshine> kinematics?
[15:57:19] <psha> module translating coordinates to joints coords
[15:59:25] <mrsunshine> i will never give up, never surrender
[15:59:33] <mrsunshine> atleast not to a pile of steel
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[16:10:16] <skunkworks> kinematics.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgnxBaFFDi8
[16:12:43] <JT-Shop> mrsunshine: like this one? http://www.embeddedtronics.com/micromill.html
[16:13:13] <mrsunshine> JT-Shop, mm but the "super" (sucky) version with tiltable head
[16:13:30] <mrsunshine> and bigger table travel
[16:13:43] <mrsunshine> i think :P
[16:14:11] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog-files/projects/01298803577/version4_exploded.PNG
[16:14:14] <alex_joni> latest update :)
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[16:16:29] <JT-Shop> XY for something
[16:16:31] <JT-Shop> ?
[16:31:18] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: yeah, camera stabilizer
[16:31:50] <JT-Shop> driven by EMC?
[16:34:07] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: http://juve.ro/blog/projects/01298803577
[16:39:28] <JT-Shop> cool
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[16:57:14] <skunkworks> me hugs emc again (it is starting to wonder about me...) http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,17413.50.html
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[16:57:40] <skunkworks> pcw - do you have a firmware that takes care of backlash for emc ;) looks like you could charge $800
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[16:58:01] <archivist> hehe
[16:58:39] * skunkworks just doesn't understand ;)
[16:59:05] <archivist> stop reading the mach forums and gloating :)
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[16:59:22] <skunkworks> sorry - it is like a car accident.
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[17:05:29] <alex_jon1> skunkworks: ouch
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[17:11:03] <JT-Shop> those mack guys love to spend money
[17:21:22] <mrsun> well the 63mm face mill almost does a perfect level circle now atleast when i put it to a material and spin it :P
[17:23:38] <mrsun> i guess it has to be good enough for now =)
[17:23:49] <mrsun> taken me a couple of hours of tweaking and hitting the machine with a hammer :P
[17:25:00] <archivist> mrsun, mount a dti in the spindle and check table
[17:25:12] <mrsun> archivist, thats exactly what ive done :P
[17:25:21] <mrsun> so its within a couple of hundreds over the table now =)
[17:26:36] <mrsun> cadding a new stand atm, in 20mm solid steel with big triangles to support the column where its possible =)
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[17:26:50] <archivist> I have a couple of books here you need, one has the specs for machine tools another explains reconditioning and measuring
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[17:27:48] <skunkworks> fenn: !
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[17:28:16] <skunkworks> heh
[17:29:09] <archivist> was the bible quoted in various texts: Testing machine tools 8th edition for the use of machine tool makers, users, inspectors and plant engineers G Schlesinger
[17:29:19] <mrsun> but the table still seems to be a bit off, as on the Y axis both are level now (0, 0) but strangley enough at the ends of the X axis at the same position of table and everything i get -0.05 and other side -0.05
[17:29:44] <mrsun> but its still ALOT better then the like 0.3 - 0.4 bend the table was in before i machined it :P
[17:29:56] <archivist> are the gibs set correctly is it drooping
[17:32:58] <Connor> question guys.. Those of you who use cnc routers, how do you hold down your parts? My deck board is made of MDF, and I have 4 Alum Tslots in it.. to protect the board, I use a 1/4" MDF on top, but, then most of the time, that causes issues with using the T-Slots, I later drilled holes every 2.5" or so.. and put a few captaive nuts on the bottom.. that helps in some cases.. but.. Setup is so freaking hard.. I just want to put my wood on it and go.
[17:33:07] <archivist> for detail of doing machine reconditioning: Machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand scraping Edward F. Connelly
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[18:08:01] <alex_joni> skunkworks: it is done for now: http://juve.ro/blog-files/projects/01298803577/steadycam.pdf
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[18:16:53] <cradek> are you going to build it?
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[18:50:30] <JT-Shop> I just love using ngcgui on the CHNC!
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[18:50:40] <skunkworks> neat!
[18:51:00] <mrsun> hmm, looking at how this is mounted it doesnt look very stirdy, tho it leaves for some extre strengthening =)
[18:51:09] <JT-Shop> it makes programming a snap :)
[18:51:25] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: do you use it?
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[18:57:07] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: no - have not looked at it
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[18:58:51] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: saw the video
[18:59:59] <JT-Shop> it saves me a bunch of time
[19:00:18] <JT-Shop> you can even do profiles with it now :)
[19:00:51] <mrsun> hmm, 20mm steel plates, bolted or maybe welded togther to form a BFT (Big F****ing Triangle) for the stand, ill be damned if that flexes to much :P
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[19:01:26] <JT-Shop> it will when you weld it or mill it :)
[19:02:14] <mrsun> JT-Shop, wont weld it to the mill, if im welding it will be welded off mill, then milled in another mill to make it perfectly square before mounting =)
[19:02:54] <mrsun> its bolted down by 4, possible ill add an extra bolt also in the middle just to keep it even more from flexing
[19:02:58] <mrsun> 4 bolts
[19:03:11] <Connor> question guys.. Those of you who use cnc routers, how do you hold down your parts? My deck board is made of MDF, and I have 4 Alum Tslots in it.. to protect the board, I use a 1/4" MDF on top, but, then most of the time, that causes issues with using the T-Slots, I later drilled holes every 2.5" or so.. and put a few captaive nuts on the bottom.. that helps in some cases.. but.. Setup is so freaking hard.. I just want to put my wood on it and go.
[19:03:41] <mrsun> Connor, how is the setup hard?
[19:03:52] <mrsun> you milling already cut pieces?
[19:03:57] <Connor> Clamps don't always reach, or stick up too much.
[19:04:07] <mrsun> Connor, vacuum then ? :)
[19:04:13] <Connor> Sometimes.. flipping them over or something..
[19:04:40] <mrsun> Connor, see to it to make 4 or two guide holes from the top side, bolt it down using those holes, when flipping over use the same holes? :)
[19:05:05] <mrsun> i would do it with 4 pins atleast, as you have 2.5" spaced holes?
[19:05:15] <mrsun> so just put threaded pins there, bore four holes
[19:05:18] <mrsun> mount the plate by the pins
[19:05:21] <Connor> I think that was my messurement.
[19:05:28] <Connor> let me check
[19:05:44] <mrsun> Connor, would still be valid with other dimensions as long as you have it, its used when they do pcbs etc also
[19:06:05] <mrsun> 4 say 8mm pins, bore 4 8 mm holes that fit snuggly
[19:06:06] <Connor> 2.75"
[19:06:22] <mrsun> or whatever your dimensions of the holes are :p
[19:06:46] <mrsun> if you make it with bolts you could just use the guide pins to hold down the plate also
[19:06:49] <Connor> okay, so, drilling the holes.. do that with the router too ?
[19:06:50] <mrsun> if its threaded rods
[19:07:01] <mrsun> just dont have the thread all the way down :P
[19:07:14] <Connor> Yea, already had that issue a time or two..
[19:07:26] <mrsun> Connor, i would just slab the piece up there, have a program for making the holes with the router, remove plate, screw in pins, mount plate to the pins :P
[19:07:57] <Connor> OKay, plate ?
[19:08:01] <Connor> what plate ?
[19:08:08] <mrsun> the mdf piece :P
[19:08:10] <mrsun> whatever =)
[19:08:19] <Connor> oh. what I'm working on ?
[19:09:01] <mrsun> /\/\/==\/\/\/ thats how my pins would look like, the first thread piece goes down the hole, the == is a flat piece (unthreaded) so that it can fit snuggly in the hole, then its threaded again to put a nut on to hold down the work =)
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[19:09:27] <mrsun> tho im no expert, but seems like the easiest and nicest way to do it if you want to be able to turn it over to work from the other side also
[19:09:51] <Connor> clamps suck.
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[19:12:21] <mrsun> i wonder if i can do steel with my little mill :P
[19:12:30] <mrsun> even more so if i can do 20mm steel ...
[19:12:36] <andypugh> No, vacuum tables suck. Clams squeeze.
[19:12:45] <atmega328__> anyone ever used one of the little nano-scope thingies?
[19:13:28] <andypugh> mrsun: I am sure you can do steel, but you might have to use a small diamter bit and light cuts.
[19:13:46] <mrsun> got 4mm carbide cutters, small enough ? :)
[19:13:57] <andypugh> I would have thought so.
[19:14:07] <alex_joni> cradek: yeah
[19:14:13] <andypugh> Just don't try to do a 20mm depth of cut.
[19:14:22] <alex_joni> probably not 100% by myself
[19:14:25] atmega328__ is now known as ATtiny8
[19:14:31] <alex_joni> I'll have a local shop help me with some parts
[19:14:47] <mrsun> andypugh, not at the same time :P
[19:15:00] <mrsun> tho, trying to go 20mm deep would need my mill to be very accurate i think :P
[19:16:14] <andypugh> After the first cut the groove will guide the cutter. Even if you don't want it to...
[19:17:52] <mrsun> andypugh, aye, and if its not straight down it wil bend it ... and if its carbide i guess it will snap it :P
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[19:24:11] <mrsun> actualy its the outline only that need to be deep cut, i could just take a light cut to "draw" the outline and make the guide holes for drilling
[19:24:17] <mrsun> so no deep milling required =)
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[19:50:18] <andypugh> Why does it take 10 days for my PCBs to leave Hong Kong? (Posted 22nd, due to fly out on the 4th)
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[19:53:36] <andypugh> Hmm, no IRC archives since 10th Feb. So I might never know what Alex was talking about when I logged in.
[19:59:08] <archivist> andypugh, there two other bots keeping logs
[19:59:15] <archivist> bookmark
[19:59:15] <the_wench> http://emclog.archivist.info/
[19:59:37] <archivist> and psha has his up and running
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[20:12:50] <mrsunshine> andypugh, took my package from ctc tools 6 days
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[20:27:41] <andypugh> Hong Kong is one of the places in the world where the average person spends more than 33% of their income on food.
[20:28:22] <andypugh> Which I guess is why it is so hard to compete with them.
[20:28:25] <archivist> here its in taxes
[20:28:47] <andypugh> Don't remind me.
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[20:30:56] <andypugh> I wonder how well a home-made bldc motor would work if you used solid rather than laminated cores?
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[21:15:05] <cv> Anyone here?
[21:16:22] <PCW> nobody here but us chickens...
[21:16:43] <cv> well thats ok then
[21:17:18] <cv> Is your software one of a kind?
[21:17:49] <andypugh> EMC2? No, there are many other alternatives. I think there might even be other free ones.
[21:18:11] <cv> I want to be a mythbuster
[21:19:04] <cv> How come there is so much coding to operate the machines?
[21:19:29] <andypugh> There needn't be, you can do it all with the stepconf or pncconf wizards.
[21:19:43] <cv> ah
[21:20:15] <cv> So you guys make any kind of living?
[21:20:27] <andypugh> Reading the docs might give the impression that you need to do a lot of file editing, but it is more that you can, not that you need to.
[21:20:33] <cv> I was thinking of making some furniture
[21:20:41] <andypugh> Not doing EMC2, it's all a hobby for all of us.
[21:21:06] <andypugh> There are folk using EMC2 to make a living, though.
[21:21:41] <cv> My c++ i a bit rusty
[21:21:47] <cv> is^
[21:22:23] <cv> I would help if i could!
[21:22:31] <andypugh> You only need C (Or Python) if you want to re-write EMC2. Not if you only want to use it.
[21:22:57] <cv> Why wrritten in c and not c++?
[21:23:01] <andypugh> Well, I had never used C at all until there was a missing feature in EMC2 that I wanted to add.
[21:23:10] <andypugh> It's mainly kernel code.
[21:24:10] <andypugh> There are parts written in C++. To a large extent it is written in the language of choice of the guy that wrote each part.
[21:24:20] <cv> ah
[21:24:30] <cv> I did both at uni
[21:24:38] <cv> but it was tough going
[21:24:43] <andypugh> So big chunks of Python, gtk, and at least one user interface written in Pascal
[21:25:11] <cv> never looked at python, we did fortran once and that wasnt nice
[21:25:27] <cv> fortran 77
[21:25:37] <cv> i know php and some .NEt though
[21:25:49] <cv> it all pretty similar
[21:25:53] <cv> at the end of the day
[21:26:33] <andypugh> Just different enough to be anoying
[21:26:39] <cv> it all about filling memory and letting the framebuffer do the rest
[21:27:48] <cv> im joking
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[21:28:36] <cv> I was watching mythbusters, they have some nice kit
[21:28:39] <cv> cnc, mills etc
[21:28:55] <cv> aamzing what they can do
[21:29:03] <skunkworks> ?
[21:29:11] <skunkworks> link?
[21:29:21] <cv> you dont know mythbusters?
[21:29:48] <cv> they make some good stuff
[21:30:00] <cv> these guys are ex hollywood special efcts
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[21:31:05] <mrsunshine> hmm, question is if an alu casting would be stiff enough to support the column
[21:31:37] <Jymmm> mrsun: sure, with a sleeve of 2" SS around it =)
[21:31:45] <andypugh> Yeah, and seem to believe that only Hollywood have any information worth knowing. A few times I have watched it and thought "That is obvious, because it is used industrially, so must work"
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[21:31:49] <mrsunshine> Jymmm, SS?
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[21:32:11] <Jymmm> mrsun: Stainless Steel
[21:32:12] <skunkworks> stainless steel
[21:32:17] <mrsunshine> Jymmm, meh
[21:32:23] <cv> it's just fun
[21:32:51] <cv> Not meant to be confrontational
[21:33:07] <mrsunshine> sucks that i do not have the means to cast iron yet =)
[21:33:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: blowing up a cement truck is done in industry?
[21:33:24] <cv> They could cast iron 3000 ago
[21:34:01] <andypugh> No, I agree that blowing up the cement truck was a necessary and valid experiment.
[21:34:44] <mrsunshine> cv, bla bla bla :P
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[21:34:51] <cv> Cast some uranmium
[21:34:55] <cv> uranium
[21:35:14] <cv> Purge the U235
[21:35:28] <cv> Mould a warhed
[21:35:39] <cv> add some fast neutrons
[21:35:56] <cv> boom
[21:36:27] <cv> I reackon one day you will be able to build a atom bomb in your garage
[21:37:10] <Jymmm> been there, done that
[21:37:41] <Jymmm> http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html
[21:38:08] <mrsunshine> sucks with welding that you need to do stuffs to make it strong :/
[21:38:08] <Jymmm> Not me, but that guy in the article did
[21:38:19] <cv> You could actually egnite the whole atmoshpere in a chain reaction
[21:38:28] <mrsunshine> ofc, making them V shaped is not a problem, and cutting a V shape is not a problem
[21:38:38] <mrsunshine> so i would just need to centerline everything, put it together and weld it :P
[21:39:55] <andypugh> cv: No you couldn't. It was a worry they had before the first bombs, but they pretty quickly decided it wasn't possible
[21:40:19] <ATtiny8> they didnt' try hard enough
[21:40:26] <cv> I'll take yuor word for it
[21:42:08] <mrsunshine> and then the part with warping :/
[21:46:14] <cv> Been ages since i used mirc
[21:46:28] <cv> They want you to pay for it now
[21:46:37] <andypugh> It's old-school internet, isn't it?
[21:47:00] <cv> I must have used it in 1998
[21:48:26] <psha> andypugh: was not that worry about whater and not atmosphere?
[21:50:27] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project
[21:50:38] <andypugh> Teller also raised the speculative possibility that an atomic bomb might "ignite" the atmosphere because of a hypothetical fusion reaction of nitrogen nuclei.[22] Bethe calculated that it could not happen,[23]
[21:50:56] <cv> Sorry for my spelling
[21:51:08] <cv> I didn't study english at uni
[21:52:14] <cv> Your spelling can condem you
[21:53:37] <psha> andypugh: thx
[21:53:53] <cv> Still there is something sinister going on
[21:54:50] <cv> The end is nigh via chain reaction?
[21:55:30] <cv> of some sorts
[22:05:56] <cv> no i am jokiing again
[22:06:01] <cv> way off topic
[22:06:19] <cv> i was just wantint to learn about cnc'ing
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[22:09:06] <andypugh> Do you have a machine yet?
[22:09:21] <andypugh> What do you want to make?
[22:09:51] <andypugh> (There is a danger that you will end up just wanting to make CNC machines, but it is good to start with a product in mind)
[22:12:21] <bill20r3> you say that like it's a bad thing.
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[22:17:39] <andypugh> Not at all, I have almost forgotten why I decided to build my first CNC now.
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[22:26:15] <cv> I just want to be master crafter
[22:27:01] <cv> Also was thinking about going into programming
[22:27:19] <cv> Need to make a better living
[22:27:34] <andypugh> This guy uses EMC2, but getting as good as him might be setting the bar too high: http://www.deweygarrett.com/
[22:29:15] <cv> Thanks for link, i like that, thats basically what i would like to be
[22:30:11] <cv> is EMC2 as good as you can get?
[22:30:17] <cv> I would imagine it would be
[22:31:00] <cv> That's art
[22:32:41] <cv> Well i suppose it's all about the machine yuo build as you say
[22:32:50] <cv> then the designs your create
[22:33:26] <bill20r3> IMO, the 'art' part is more about being artistic.
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[22:36:13] <bill20r3> I have machines, but I'm still lousy at designing things. :-|
[22:36:47] <andypugh> I think EMC2 is the best value. If you spend tens of thousands of dollars you can get more.
[22:37:18] <andypugh> But then you might find it lacks a feature you want. With EMC2 you can add anything you feel you need.
[22:38:48] <cv> Do you think the tribal africans et al would scorn at you?
[22:39:28] <bill20r3> I wont tell them if you dont.
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