#emc | Logs for 2011-03-01

[00:02:05] <emcrules_d510mo> yeah, i got compiling down, just having issues with the user comp i modified
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[00:10:43] <JT-Shop> emcrules_d510mo: did you get your sticking buttons fixed?
[00:12:10] <emcrules_d510mo> JT, Not yet. I will check it tonight.
[00:13:57] <emcrules_d510mo> JT-Shop, how can I test out C code on linux. simple stuff. like y= x + 5; x= 2; print y
[00:14:42] <JT-Shop> gcc
[00:15:02] <emcrules_d510mo> is there a gui for it?
[00:15:12] <JT-Shop> no but to compile is simple
[00:15:28] <JT-Shop> compile a single file is simple
[00:15:52] <emcrules_d510mo> just gcc and the filename correct
[00:16:10] <JT-Shop> and the target file
[00:16:20] <JT-Shop> gcc hello.c hello
[00:16:30] <JT-Shop> opps
[00:16:37] <JT-Shop> gcc hello.c -o hello
[00:16:44] <kirk_wallace> You'll get a.out otherwise
[00:16:51] <JT-Shop> yep
[00:17:00] <JT-Shop> which works too
[00:17:21] <kirk_wallace> Don't forget the "./"
[00:17:36] <JT-Shop> hi kirk_wallace
[00:17:54] <kirk_wallace> Hi
[00:17:55] <emcrules_d510mo> ah and then just type hello from the directory I compiled it to and it should run correct?
[00:18:04] <JT-Shop> I've actually made a micro progress on my temperature thing
[00:18:12] <JT-Shop> no
[00:18:17] <JT-Shop> type ./hello
[00:18:40] <emcrules_d510mo> thanks
[00:19:26] <atmega328> I looked at a 2-temp wireless thing the other day, but decided to stick with my current method of setting it around 200 and leaving it for 8 or 9 hours
[00:20:05] <JT-Shop> I did run into a guy that has actually got his thermistors working with the Ardunio
[00:20:19] <JT-Shop> my first SMT http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Smokin/Arduino/SolderMax6675.jpg
[00:20:56] <atmega328> cool
[00:21:21] <JT-Shop> yea kinda exciting to solder something that small
[00:22:29] * Valen did a 3mm x 3mm QFN the other day
[00:22:34] <Valen> 11 pins
[00:22:38] <Valen> well 10 and a ground pad
[00:23:25] <JT-Shop> the MAX6675 is a SOIC but I don't know the pin spacing off hand
[00:25:37] <kirk_wallace> Valen: Did you use a hot air gun for the QFN?
[00:25:39] <JT-Shop> well here it is 1.27mm spacing between pins
[00:26:18] <JT-Shop> you can almost fit the QFN between three pins :)
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[00:29:33] <atmega328> is there a code to invert the X axis?
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[00:30:24] <atmega328> or rotate x/y 180 degrees?
[00:31:11] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G10:-Set-Coordinate
[00:31:36] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/CPF/LTC3454_driver/hotplate_soldering.jpg
[00:32:10] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/CPF/LTC3454_driver/thumbs/look_its_a_torch.jpg
[00:32:51] <Tom_itx> what are good latency numbers and what do you look for?
[00:32:58] <atmega328> JT: thank you
[00:33:34] <JT-Shop> np
[00:33:55] <JT-Shop> software stepping or hardware?
[00:34:27] <Tom_itx> how long do you let the test run?
[00:34:41] <elmo40> until you get bored ;)
[00:34:44] <JT-Shop> I let it run while I sleep
[00:34:57] <JT-Shop> and leave the cat in the room
[00:35:30] <Tom_itx> so far for the D525: Servo thread 1.0ms: 999081ns max jitter 3921
[00:36:09] <Tom_itx> Base thread 25.0s 28144ns max jitter 3265
[00:36:25] <JT-Shop> that is good
[00:36:47] <Tom_itx> last interval 995151 and 24876 respectively
[00:37:00] <Tom_itx> from the cd
[00:37:02] <Tom_itx> 4G ram
[00:37:13] <kirk_wallace> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[00:37:18] <Tom_itx> how does that compare to the D510?
[00:37:45] <JT-Shop> max jitter was in the mid 4xxx range on mine
[00:37:55] <Tom_itx> some here were wondering about the D525
[00:38:42] <Tom_itx> it hasn't changed yet
[00:39:54] <JT-Shop> I think someone on the forum stuck a video card in a 525 and was getting some bad latency numbers or something like that
[00:40:05] <Tom_itx> this is stock
[00:44:43] <JT-Shop> chow time here guys talk to you later
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[01:31:17] <emcrules_d510mo> http://codepaste.net/5gm5dp
[01:32:25] <emcrules_d510mo> http://codepaste.net/ntdkw7
[01:37:16] <emcrules_d510mo> Don't understand why i am getting the "undefined reference to `HIDIOCGFEATURE'" It's supposed to be apart of hidraw.h. But i don't see any mention of it in the hidraw.h source?
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[03:09:48] <emcrules_d510mo> seb_kuzminsky, do you know if HIDIOCGFEATURE is a supported by "ioctl"
[03:10:05] <seb_kuzminsky> not off the top of my head :-)
[03:10:13] <seb_kuzminsky> look in the relevant header file
[03:10:26] <emcrules_d510mo> https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/106797/
[03:11:03] <emcrules_d510mo> trying to compile this code and i keep getting this http://codepaste.net/ntdkw7
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[07:35:54] <nullie> [____]
[07:36:03] <nullie> oops, sorry, wrong channel
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[12:40:53] * jthornton learns how much he doesn't know about SPI and the Ardunio Uno
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[12:54:37] <jthornton> ha AREF is Analog Reference
[12:55:00] * jthornton gets a smack on the forehead
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[13:12:21] <Tom_sbc> generally tied to VCC
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[14:05:45] <alex_joni> Tom_itx: only if you don't have a more qualitative power supply
[14:10:29] <cpresser_> alex_joni: also depends on how accurate you ad-value has to be :)
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[14:14:22] <SWPadnos_> generally tied to Vcc or Vio through a filter (even if it's just a cap and a ferrite bead)
[14:15:24] <alex_joni> right
[14:15:31] <alex_joni> hey SWPadnos_
[14:15:38] <SWPadnos_> hi
[14:15:50] <alex_joni> are we well?
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[14:16:01] <SWPadnos> well enough. you?
[14:16:09] <alex_joni> yup
[14:16:19] <alex_joni> work is finally picking up in pace
[14:16:30] <SWPadnos> cool
[14:16:45] <SWPadnos> here too (if that seems possible)
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[14:18:00] <SWPadnos> in fact, I should get going. bbl
[14:18:47] <alex_joni> heh, see you
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[15:12:03] <mk0> how to convert spline to arcs and lines or at least a lot of lines? With good accuracy.
[15:12:39] <cradek> that's a tough question - emc has an algorithm built in
[15:12:51] <cradek> well - into a lot of lines is not hard at all
[15:13:07] <archivist> is a spline "accurate" :)
[15:13:09] <mk0> but less wanted than arcs
[15:13:43] <mk0> mmm i meant i used convertors and they made smth awful from spline
[15:15:14] <mk0> cradek, is it documeted?
[15:18:18] <cradek> mk0: sadly I don't think it is very well documented
[15:18:20] <cradek> it is new in emc
[15:18:47] <cradek> what problem are you trying to solve exactly?
[15:20:18] <mk0> i have a logo to cut. It is a dxf spline
[15:20:57] <cradek> hm, I don't know how to get that out of autocad in a useful (for gcode) format
[15:20:59] <mk0> but i cannot convert it to even polyline (dxf2gcode).
[15:21:28] <cradek> can you explode it into something else? my autocad is too old for splines so I'm not familiar with what they can do
[15:21:35] <mk0> it gives an error of too many iterations
[15:21:52] <mk0> explode to what fro example?
[15:22:11] <cradek> I don't know what it would give you - I'm asking
[15:22:27] <archivist> I wonder if heekscad/heekscnc can read it in and deal with it
[15:22:54] <cradek> good question
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[15:23:10] <mk0> maybe i don't understand what do you mean by "explode"
[15:23:24] <cradek> the explode function in autocad
[15:23:32] <mk0> ah
[15:23:42] <mk0> nope it does not help
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[15:30:26] <mrsunshine> omg, thats one mill that wasnt in good shape :P
[15:30:58] <mrsunshine> the table was bent ... the seat for the column was like half a millimeter off from the front to back ...
[15:31:18] <mrsunshine> took 3 and a half hour of a person not used to work in mills (me) to face everything off :P
[15:38:05] <alex_joni> mk0: If you have the AutoCAD express tools loaded, you can use the FLATTEN command and it will convert that spline into a polyline with arc segments.
[15:38:15] <alex_joni> too bad he alreayd left ;)
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[17:16:06] <danimal_garage> weird, my y axis servo started buzzing real bad last night, and occilating, completely out of the blue. I had to cut the d in half in order to get rid of it
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[17:59:05] <pcw_home> You might swap motor drives around to see whether what changed was mechanical or electrical
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[18:04:59] <djwez> hi guys. does anyone know how i can set my anti-backlash (software) to only work when the machine makes positive movements (ive got a problem with my z axis where moving down has no problem but moving up i have backlash so now when the machine move down again it has moved more than nessacary.
[18:05:38] <bill20r3> put a heavy weight on your Z?
[18:05:39] <bill20r3> heh
[18:05:40] <cradek> no, I doubt you can fix that acceptably with any software setting
[18:05:50] <cradek> yes it's something to fix in hardware, one way or another
[18:06:20] <djwez> sure i couldnt program a simple script or somethign that only works on + values?
[18:07:03] <cradek> I don't even understand the problem as you explain it
[18:07:34] <cradek> you could of course put the compensation in your gcode or whatever generates your gcode, but I think you are doomed to dissatisfaction if you don't fix it in hardware
[18:08:43] <cradek> it sounds like you are describing an error where if you move up/down/up/down/up/down the position becomes further off each time?
[18:08:52] <djwez> whats happening is if i jog the machine up emc compensates for it. now when i jog it back down there is no backlash but emc compensates for it anyhow. mmmm
[18:09:09] <Jymmm> cradek: hows the library?
[18:09:16] <cradek> Jymmm: it works
[18:09:52] <Jymmm> cradek: so fully operational now?
[18:10:02] <andypugh> djwez: I am very puzzled about what is happening mechanically.
[18:10:49] <andypugh> Is it a moving-head or moving-table machine?
[18:11:10] <bill20r3> if you compensate for backlash in one direction, but not the other, wouldn't the position drift out of alignment over several moves?
[18:11:32] <djwez> sigh.... the machine ive built is a simple diy machine to learn the basics. its a moving head machine and the z axis (verticle) is whats giving me problems.
[18:11:51] <Jymmm> djwez: do you have photos of the Z nut?
[18:13:03] <Jymmm> djwez: Also, is the Z acme thread?
[18:13:42] <djwez> bill : the thing is that its the z axis. the weight of the head takes up the backlash when moving up but on the downward movements i have the backlash proplem @ jymm the nuts im using is standard 10mm hex nuts and a standard 1m bolt.... its a very basic diy machine
[18:15:01] <Jymmm> djwez: software backlash compensation isn't going to do you any good in the long run. Best to mechanically resolve that.
[18:16:20] <djwez> ye i know. im just tring to make a simple machine to learn cnc controlling and to have fun. i have heard of guys molding plastic around the thread to make anti baclash nuts....
[18:16:23] <Jymmm> djwez: One example you might try: http://www.myheap.com/projects/cncmill/98_buildlog/images/XAxisBacklashNutLarge.jpg
[18:16:52] <Jymmm> I just did a google search to find that
[18:17:20] <Jymmm> heavy duty spring loaded is another option I suspect
[18:18:17] <djwez> that looks intersting... maybe ill give that a shot. i have thought of the springs (since the thread isnt very well cut) but im looking for +/- 0.1 acuracy
[18:18:31] <djwez> even about0.3
[18:18:40] <djwez> mm
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[18:21:00] <Jymmm> http://www.bg-cnc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/l1.jpg
[18:21:32] <Tom_itx> how do those work?
[18:21:59] <Tom_itx> both halves threaded and the spring pushes against them?
[18:22:20] <Jymmm> djwez: All anti-backlash nuts that I've seen are two nuts that will nut turn from each other, but are pressed apart using a heavy duty spring.
[18:22:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: correct
[18:23:07] <Tom_itx> i should put one of those on my z axis
[18:23:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: one nut comps for cw, the other nut comps for ccw (basically)
[18:23:17] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:24:05] <djwez> just need to get hold of some springs then (heavy duty ones that is) i think the last time i worked on this machine the backlash was about 1mm
[18:24:23] <Jymmm> If you were to thread two blocks of material so that they can freely pull away from each other without turning, you have a anti-backlash nut
[18:24:58] <Jymmm> djwez: shoe brake springs
[18:25:21] <Tom_itx> i wonder what the spring rate is on those
[18:25:41] <Tom_itx> they look fairly stiff
[18:25:46] <djwez> i could use two nuts. that sounds like a good idea:)
[18:26:25] <Tom_itx> you could make one easy enough. solder a brass tube on both with opposing slots
[18:26:28] <Jymmm> djwez: You HAVE to use the spring too
[18:26:44] <Tom_itx> with the spring of course
[18:27:06] <djwez> shot guys
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[18:28:51] <Jymmm> djwez: like this http://img3.prosperent.com/images/250x250/www.jcwhitney.com/jcwhitney/product/images/large/G_29813G_CL_1.jpg
[18:30:27] <Jymmm> drum brake springs http://www.rickscamaros.com/assets/rfg/images/size/265x265/sku/720197.jpg
[18:31:37] <Jymmm> You can see how they are actually used here http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/217784.jpg
[18:31:48] <Jymmm> the dk blue text
[18:32:28] <Jymmm> those might not be the strongest, might consider valve springs instead
[18:33:10] <Jymmm> Yep, valve springs as they have the flat top and bottom... http://www.google.com/images?q=valve+springs
[18:33:27] <Jymmm> and stronger than shit when compressing.
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[18:37:41] <djwez> wow lots of info there thanks... i know valve springs are bloody strong
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[18:39:28] <Jymmm> djwez: You just need to compress the spring enough (when assembling) to take up the slack of the nuts, so maybe no more than 4mm max
[18:40:06] <Jymmm> maybe less, you dont want the spring so tight that it's hard to turn the shaft
[18:40:45] <Jymmm> maybe even 1mm, you'll have to test that out yourself
[18:41:12] <djwez> ive got some really small steppers on it at the moment (like printer steppers) so it might not work fully until my uncle orders me some bigger ones, thats what i was thinking about. im guessing maybe 2 turns would even be enough to take the slack out
[18:41:33] <Jymmm> djwez: NO not turns,
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[18:42:36] <Jymmm> djwez: it will be trial and error, you'll have to gauge it yourself and the slop of what you're using.
[18:45:09] <djwez> im thinking in terms of turns when the spring is touching both nuts. there is only about a mm of backlash and ill need little more than a mm to compensate
[18:45:44] <djwez> but i understand what your saying:)
[18:45:51] <andypugh> djwez: Balls screws are not _that_ expensive, and acme threads are pretty cheap.
[18:46:36] <djwez> when i get this machine wrking more or less ok then ill probably look at some proper threads and antibacklash nuts.
[18:49:04] <djwez> im using this machine to experiment (ive got a simple stepper controller which uses the computer to output the steps instead of the usual step/dir style) ill be building a proper controller sometime soon
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[18:51:49] <andypugh> djwez: You know that EMC2 can output step patterns? (Or is this what you mean?)
[18:56:13] <djwez> yeah thats what i mean:) ive just got 3 chips (one for each stepper) to amp up the output from the par port (forgot the chips name )
[18:57:20] <djwez> i must be confusing you guys a fair amount. doesnt help when someone doesnt know all the vocab
[19:00:21] <andypugh> djwez: ULN2008?
[19:02:19] <djwez> its simmilar to the 2008... same circuity but its a diffrent chip (not sure what it was really) but ill be building up a proper step driver since im using 12 par pins (3 outputs * 4 pins)
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[19:13:22] <djwez> the pins are grouped in pairs to allow double the amount of current to be drawn
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[19:57:34] <mrsunshine> gaah already found a thing i want to change with the mill, the leadscrews. ...
[19:57:56] <mrsunshine> its impossible to get it right when its under the table, so i was thinking to have them to the side of the table with a protection over them, is this stupid? :)
[19:58:23] <mrsunshine> so they are accessable, can easily be tightened for backlash etc
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[19:59:58] <mrsunshine> when im done with this mill it wont be a super X1 anymore
[20:00:01] <mrsunshine> it will be something new
[20:00:07] <mrsunshine> that the world has never seen before
[20:00:10] <mrsunshine> :P
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[20:07:18] <danimal_garage> i would probably want the screws between the ways, centered
[20:07:52] <mrsunshine> danimal_garage, aye but then its hidden under the table, hard to get to etc :/
[20:08:00] <danimal_garage> otherwise it'll wear the ways funny/prematurely
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[20:08:13] <mrsunshine> danimal_garage, ahh that is trie
[20:08:14] <mrsunshine> true
[20:08:33] <danimal_garage> it's like trying to push a shopping cart from one corner
[20:08:52] <mrsunshine> i need to make something new atleast, the X1 leadscrew assembly is impossible to get right with the steppers =)
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[20:09:13] <danimal_garage> ball screws
[20:09:23] <danimal_garage> then you'll never need to dick with it
[20:09:27] <mrsunshine> danimal_garage, expensive like hell =)
[20:09:40] <danimal_garage> ebay
[20:09:42] <danimal_garage> used
[20:10:00] <mrsunshine> dont like the word "used" when it comes to screws :P
[20:10:29] <danimal_garage> still better than lead screws
[20:10:43] <danimal_garage> even worn out
[20:10:44] <Jymmm> and $2 screw
[20:11:24] <mrsunshine> hmm, 18 for the screws atleast from motioncontrolproducts
[20:11:27] <mrsunshine> that is 300mm long
[20:11:32] <mrsunshine> tho i will need to machine it myself :P
[20:13:46] <mrsunshine> and single ballnut is 0 - 0.05 from there in precision, 0.05 feels a bit high backlash, but double ballscrews are double price :P
[20:14:48] <DaViruz> i'll take a used high quality ground ball screw any day over a cheap rolled new one
[20:16:12] <mrsunshine> how do you know if its ground orn ot? :P
[20:16:55] <DaViruz> drive it into the ground, that'll ground it
[20:17:00] <mrsunshine> :P
[20:17:20] <DaViruz> data sheet etc
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[20:32:38] <mrsunshine> well, 1500 sek for 3 screws with nuts from china, including tolls and taxes in sweden ... depending on if the shipment is right, thats not actualty to bad, and they are alot longer then i need :P
[20:34:57] <mrsunshine> question is, should i realy take that cost for this machine
[20:35:06] <mrsunshine> its expensive as it is, and its very very small :P
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[20:37:31] <mrsunshine> hows acetal for nuts ? :) was thinking to make some kind of holder for an acetal nut insted, and make ballbearing mounts in both ends of the table
[20:41:42] <DaViruz> fine for light machining but i wouldn't want it for cutting metal
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[20:53:16] <mrsunshine> meh
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[20:58:12] <DaViruz> on the other hand i've become very particular since i got my vmc
[20:58:49] <andypugh> mrsunshine: I have spare CBN tips if you want to machine your own leadscrews (and have a lathe)
[20:59:38] <mrsunshine> do not have a lathe more then an old one i can use at my old work
[20:59:43] <andypugh> And have you seen www.slidesandballscrews.co.uk ?
[20:59:47] <mrsunshine> DaViruz, vmc?
[21:00:10] <mrsunshine> andypugh, nop i had not =)
[21:00:26] <DaViruz> vertical machining center
[21:00:39] <DaViruz> i'm not sure why i use that word, i've never cared for it before
[21:00:45] <andypugh> 1204 ballnut is £30 and screw at £6 per 100mm
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[21:02:00] <mrsunshine> andypugh, thats not to bad =)
[21:02:11] <mrsunshine> tho its the machining that costs, how is it to machine by oneself? :)
[21:02:50] <andypugh> Sparky! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIMEPkK-Doc
[21:03:36] <mrsunshine> tho i would use some kind of support at the end
[21:03:55] <andypugh> Aye, I put a centre in the next time.
[21:04:24] <mrsunshine> and the place i got does not have a collet chuck for the lathe
[21:04:33] <mrsunshine> =)
[21:04:48] <andypugh> i just held it in the 3-jaw :-)
[21:05:19] <mrsunshine> 1204, is that 12mm 4ptich ? :)
[21:05:22] <andypugh> Aye.
[21:05:28] <mrsunshine> ahh yes
[21:10:36] <mrsunshine> 1700 sek excluding vat i guess
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[21:15:08] <andypugh> I just finished the first Stieg Larrson book. I spent a lot of it wondering "Just how much is a billion SEK anyway?"
[21:16:43] <andypugh> They appear to be about what Francs used to be :-)
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[21:25:29] <atmega328> andypugh: I had the same problems
[21:27:22] <atmega328> there were several other swedishisms I didn't quite get.
[21:31:33] <bill20r3> Does anyone know which of the many "use a joypad as pendant" pages in the wiki is the current "best" set of instructions?
[21:33:23] <andypugh> Probably http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[21:33:39] <andypugh> You certainly want to be using hal_input
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[22:24:50] <andypugh> Workmanship, pride in the job. All missing: http://www.photoshopdisasters.com/view-all/midget-arm/
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[23:45:07] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/125755
[23:46:30] <JT-Shop> YEA! 3/4 done shingling
[23:49:25] <Tom_itx> you should be having nice weather
[23:49:44] <PCW_> Wow SB almost gave EMC a complement instead of complaining
[23:51:47] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yea, nice for the next two days... a friend is helping me in the afternoons so I should get it done by the next rains on Thursday/Friday
[23:52:35] * JT-Shop missed the almost complement and reads it again :)
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