#emc | Logs for 2011-02-26

[00:00:01] <Lbaroudi> :)
[00:00:02] <archivist> likely the parport has a resistor to limit power used to just pull up duties
[00:00:35] <Lbaroudi> I guess it need external one but no pin assignment for that as i told you it's unclear
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[00:04:42] <jthornton> Lbaroudi: I've used the c11g before but don't have time atm to talk about it if you post a question on the forum I can get back to you
[00:04:59] * jthornton takes the wife to dinner now
[00:05:09] <Lbaroudi> :)
[00:05:14] <Lbaroudi> 10x
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[00:15:35] <PCW> "jthornton takes the wife to dinner now" sounds like a plan! Friday and TTGH or better TTGO
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[00:51:48] <emcrules_laptop> elmo40, Are you picking up that pendant today?
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[02:24:27] <ve7it> Jymmm, dingdong....
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[02:25:26] <danimal_garage> don't call him names
[02:25:29] <danimal_garage> :)
[02:26:07] <ve7it> hey..... wonder which part he will respond to?
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[02:38:20] <emcrules_d510mo> After some deep soul searching and removing my head from my ass. I Have completed my first emc compile.
[02:52:56] <danimal_garage> horray!
[03:00:17] <Jymmm> ve7it: QRV
[03:00:55] <mikegg> heh, is_opendrain is important. as it turns out
[03:04:22] <Jymmm> ve7it: cq cq cq dx
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[03:23:00] <ve7it> Jymmm, what is up with imagebin these days? gone?
[03:24:46] <Jymmm> ve7it: never use it, use tinypic.com
[03:26:30] <ve7it> http://i53.tinypic.com/2ujgh2o.jpg
[03:26:55] <ve7it> another oem750 in operation
[03:27:09] <Jymmm> cool
[03:27:40] <Jymmm> the beveled wood and wire tie is cute =)
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[03:28:55] <ve7it> stereo amp transformer, bridge, some old cap, another chunk of heatsink part of a pc power supply, switch/breaker and stepper from 25 years ago
[03:29:10] <Jymmm> hey, it works
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[03:29:57] <ve7it> do you like the cap mount.... tie wraps to 2 1/4" dowels!
[03:32:41] <ve7it> that stepper makes a great handwarmer... triple stack size nema 34 only spec'd at 300oz-in but I cant stop it with finger power...
[03:33:42] <ve7it> I am going to use it as a slow speed drive for some mining equipment... need about 300rpm
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[03:46:12] <danimal_garage> i didnt realize how well my blower worked untill the dube came off and filled my garage with smoke in like 5 seconds
[03:46:19] <danimal_garage> tube*
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[03:48:35] <danimal_garage> weird, it disconnects me right after i type something
[03:48:48] <danimal_garage> not everytime obviously, but alot
[03:48:51] <seb_kuzminsky> we thought it was related to the smoke you let out
[03:49:17] <danimal_garage> yea, i let the smoke out
[03:50:49] <ve7it> I hate it when the smoke gets let out of the dube
[03:53:14] <danimal_garage> yea, effin dubes
[03:53:19] <danimal_garage> and their smoking
[03:54:40] <danimal_garage> so i convinced someone to dump their mach 3 system for EMC today
[03:55:02] <danimal_garage> he came over and checked it out and was sold after about 30 seconds
[03:55:18] <danimal_garage> EMC 1, Mach 0
[03:55:23] <danimal_garage> :)
[03:58:09] <danimal_garage> which means a few sales for pcw_home
[04:00:00] <mikegg> everyone know mach is for girl
[04:00:53] <emcrules_d510mo> seb_kuzminsky, is this correct. loadusr shuttlexpress [hidraw2]
[04:02:46] <danimal_garage> i saw his mach meachine, i was rather unimpressed
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[04:03:11] <danimal_garage> he said you can't run a jog wheel plus a 4th axis
[04:03:16] <danimal_garage> only one or another
[04:03:26] <danimal_garage> lame!
[04:03:55] <Tom_L> with a parport or other hardware?
[04:04:29] <danimal_garage> with anything
[04:04:53] <danimal_garage> software limitations
[04:05:12] <Tom_L> if i'm gonna use emc on my sherline what should i get for an interface or port protector?
[04:05:41] <Jymmm> TurboCNC ?
[04:05:58] <mikegg> just get a 7i43
[04:06:09] <danimal_garage> yea
[04:06:19] <Tom_L> what's that get me?
[04:06:25] <mikegg> hardware stepgen > software
[04:07:19] <mikegg> higher step rates plus other IO functionality if you want to expand
[04:07:32] <Tom_L> got a link to it on his page?
[04:07:47] <Tom_L> i find that site hard to navigate
[04:08:17] <mikegg> look for anything IO FPGA
[04:08:21] <mikegg> on the left
[04:09:46] <Tom_L> usb interface?
[04:10:19] <mikegg> mine has a USB plug that I use to supply power to the card ( for now)
[04:10:29] <mikegg> the interface to EMC is through the parallel port
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[04:11:12] <Tom_L> what's the difference between the 7i43-P and 7i43h
[04:11:28] <Tom_L> beside usb
[04:11:55] <Tom_L> or the -U for that matter
[04:12:23] <mikegg> I think you don't want the high speed version
[04:12:41] <mikegg> there is no advantage that is
[04:12:58] <Tom_L> so the 7i43-u or 7i43-U-4
[04:13:13] <Tom_L> -4 just more gates it appears
[04:13:53] <mikegg> I think anything but H
[04:14:06] <Tom_L> how does that interact with a stepper driver that does microstepping already?>
[04:14:08] <mikegg> hostmot2 will fit in either the 200K or 400K
[04:14:37] <mikegg> hmm magic
[04:15:27] <Tom_L> do you compile your own?
[04:15:28] <mikegg> you put whatever your count/inch is in the ini file
[04:15:34] <mikegg> heavens no
[04:15:38] <Tom_L> why not?
[04:15:39] <Tom_L> :D
[04:15:44] <mikegg> don't need to
[04:15:54] <Tom_L> does it have a jtag header on it?
[04:15:56] <Tom_L> oh
[04:16:00] <mikegg> there are configuration samples for just about anything you would want to do
[04:16:36] <Tom_L> how do you load them?
[04:16:42] <mikegg> I think the via's (sp?) are there, but no pin header
[04:17:22] <mikegg> load one of the sample configs and tell it to make the directory / shortcut or whatever and look at the ini / hal fils
[04:17:34] <mikegg> also, hostmot2 man page is a good place to start
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[04:20:37] <Tom_L> i've got an old flashcut system but i'm not sure what the drivers can handle
[04:21:11] <Tom_L> i was looking at a gecko 4 stepper driver at one point
[04:22:53] <mikegg> i have a G201X that I drive with the 7i43
[04:23:10] <Tom_L> i was looking at the G540
[04:23:15] <mikegg> I like the gecko drives too
[04:23:24] <mikegg> they work great, good tech support too
[04:23:25] <Tom_L> are you familiar with it?
[04:23:40] <mikegg> the 540? not intimately
[04:23:42] <Tom_L> yeah i hear good things about them
[04:24:20] <Tom_L> this is a hobby machine i was gonna update the steppers and drivers on some day
[04:24:34] <Tom_L> hopefully get better feedrates
[04:24:42] <mikegg> just don't use a variac to step down line voltage to something the gecko drive can use
[04:24:49] <mikegg> sparks will fly, trust me
[04:24:59] <Tom_L> i got a linear supply
[04:25:08] <Tom_L> ~40v iirc
[04:25:13] <Tom_L> 6A
[04:25:19] <Tom_L> should be enough for those
[04:25:32] <Tom_L> it might be 50v i don't recall
[04:25:57] <Tom_L> i gotta make a board for the bridge and caps still
[04:26:55] <Tom_L> my D525 was supposed to arrive today but it looks like monday now
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[04:32:21] <Tom_L> are the fpga io on that board buffered?
[04:32:36] <Tom_L> looks like it
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[04:33:15] <Tom_L> based on the routing i see on the board and the 2 chips near the headers
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[05:07:49] <seb_kuzminsky> emcrules_d510mo: it's "loadusr shuttlexpress" or "loadusr shuttlexpress /dev/hidrawX", where X indicates the hidraw number randomly assigned to your device
[05:08:13] <seb_kuzminsky> you're prolly best of just using it without naming a device explicitly
[05:09:07] <emcrules_d510mo> Thanks
[05:13:03] <emcrules_d510mo> Seb_kuzminsky, http://codepaste.net/e93122
[05:13:58] <seb_kuzminsky> wow that's all kinds of messed up
[05:14:08] <seb_kuzminsky> the first error is what you should go after first: servo_sim.hal:25: execv(shuttlexpress): No such file or directory
[05:14:40] <emcrules_d510mo> LOL, I thought so. whats "execv"
[05:14:55] <seb_kuzminsky> man execv
[05:16:13] <emcrules_d510mo> thanks i keep forgetting about man pages
[05:17:52] <seb_kuzminsky> http://cmenghi.deviantart.com/art/Mao-RTFM-vectorize-72728695
[05:18:33] <emcrules_d510mo> LOL funny. I will be ther next week as well
[05:20:53] <seb_kuzminsky> i bet you have emc2 2.4.6 installed, and you're working in a git checkout of master, and you forgot to source emc-environment
[05:22:32] <emcrules_d510mo> Thanks yes i probably skiped that step today thanks
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[05:27:17] <emcrules_d510mo> Thats better. Much thanks Seb. It must get anoying at time with us newbies
[05:30:10] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm glad i could help :-)
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[05:53:29] <emcrules_d510mo_> Seb, if you still there http://codepaste.net/ynt1j1
[05:53:58] <seb_kuzminsky> yes?
[05:54:01] <emcrules_d510mo_> looks like a permission issue but if you scroll down to the bottom i have RW set up
[05:54:09] <emcrules_d510mo_> ^
[05:54:15] <seb_kuzminsky> no
[05:54:26] <emcrules_d510mo_> oops one sec
[05:54:29] <seb_kuzminsky> your perms are 660, and your gid is root
[05:55:53] <emcrules_d510mo_> mode is set to 660
[05:56:09] <emcrules_d510mo_> i mean 666
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[05:56:33] <seb_kuzminsky> no, the ls you pasted shows the permissions are 660, not 666
[05:57:24] <seb_kuzminsky> the mode should be 444, as the shuttlexpress manpage says
[05:57:36] <seb_kuzminsky> or 666, but the 222 isnt used
[06:01:25] <emcrules_d510mo_> change to 444 and same response
[06:01:58] <seb_kuzminsky> i think you have to unplug the device and reconnect it for the udev rules to take effect
[06:02:08] <seb_kuzminsky> wait, is this even a shuttlexpress? or is it a pokeys?
[06:02:26] <seb_kuzminsky> if it's pokeys you'll have to change the idVendor and idProduct appropriately
[06:03:43] <emcrules_d510mo_> I did change the vid and pid
[06:03:50] <seb_kuzminsky> ok then
[06:03:52] <emcrules_d510mo_> im not that new
[06:03:55] <emcrules_d510mo_> lol
[06:03:58] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[06:05:03] <emcrules_d510mo_> and Ive plugged and unplugged no change
[06:05:51] <emcrules_d510mo_> SUBSYSTEM=="hidraw", ATTRS{idVendor}=="1DC3", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1001", MODE="0444"
[06:06:33] <seb_kuzminsky> plug it in and lsusb?
[06:06:54] <seb_kuzminsky> also: "udevadm monitor"
[06:10:10] <emcrules_d510mo_> http://codepaste.net/ad1kzt
[06:11:12] <emcrules_d510mo_> brb
[06:12:28] <seb_kuzminsky> did you give the rules file the right name? udev is picky
[06:19:59] <emcrules_d510mo_> 99-shuttlexpress.rules
[06:23:23] <seb_kuzminsky> ownership & perms?
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[06:40:17] <emcrules_d510mo_> well i ran chmod 444 on hidraw* but still the same result so it must be an ownership thing?
[06:40:42] <seb_kuzminsky> if /dev/hidraw* is 0444, there's no ownership issue
[06:40:59] <seb_kuzminsky> it still wont load the shuttlexpress driver though? that's strange
[06:41:08] <seb_kuzminsky> still complaining about permissions?
[06:42:21] <emcrules_d510mo_> http://codepaste.net/55xo9u
[06:42:26] <emcrules_d510mo_> yes
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[06:43:21] <seb_kuzminsky> that makes no sense
[06:43:24] <seb_kuzminsky> something else is wrong
[06:43:46] <seb_kuzminsky> can you start emc without shuttlexpress.hal, and then strace starting shuttlexpress by hand?
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[06:45:04] <emcrules_d510mo_> how would i trace it by hand. just by reading it or is there a tool i can debug with?
[06:45:17] <seb_kuzminsky> "strace shuttlexpress"
[06:51:22] <emcrules_d510mo_> Thanks for the help. going to bed
[06:51:36] <seb_kuzminsky> what!?! did it work??
[06:51:39] <seb_kuzminsky> :-)
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[08:18:01] <mrsunshine> so i guess its motor disassemble time today again then and see what i can do for that shaft :/
[08:18:31] <mrsunshine> nicest way would be if i had another taperlock, start the motor and let it spin then have a grinding wheel grind down the axle at the same time :P
[08:31:24] <archivist> well you can and then just shim to use the taper lock you have
[08:37:18] <mrsunshine> maybe, if it wasnt that they come from england i would just order a new taper bush, it was 3.85 only each ...
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[10:41:38] <mrsunshine> stupid pulley :/
[10:41:49] <mrsunshine> 0.05mm wobble is about what i get
[10:45:49] <archivist> not that bad
[10:46:37] <mrsunshine> archivist, bad enough to cause huge vibrations with the timing pulley, as its made of steel :P
[10:47:51] <mrsunshine> might be able to balance it with balancing tape ?
[10:48:17] <archivist> or drill the heavy side
[10:48:37] <mrsunshine> drill the heavy side ?
[10:48:39] <mrsunshine> ahh
[10:48:40] <mrsunshine> yes
[10:48:46] <mrsunshine> drill to get weight off :P
[10:49:07] <mrsunshine> but can you balance wobbles? :)
[10:49:16] <mrsunshine> that is that it wobbles on the flat side
[10:49:20] <mrsunshine> not the other sides :P
[10:49:44] <archivist> or drill and tap some holes so you can add screws with weights where needed
[10:49:56] <mrsunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdqM8RT9OA like that
[10:50:51] <archivist> that one is not yours is it?
[10:51:07] <mrsunshine> nooo =)
[10:51:08] <mrsunshine> its not
[10:51:26] <mrsunshine> it was just to show how it wobbles, as i guess it can wobble out and in on the other sides also :P
[10:51:55] <archivist> .05mm is not a lot for a belt drive
[10:52:21] <mrsunshine> archivist, i guess it wouldnt be a problem if the mill was strurdier...
[10:52:24] <mrsunshine> but its a X1
[10:52:39] <mrsunshine> so the wobbles are amplified down the mill :/
[10:52:59] <archivist> I understand about machine vibration, I stiffened my column for the same reason
[10:53:22] <mrsunshine> archivist, ye i guess i could do that also =)
[10:54:05] <mrsunshine> i was thinking before to get a 1" plate to put under it and put up huge triangles to the stand :P
[10:54:14] <mrsunshine> the column ...
[10:54:16] <mrsunshine> not stand :P
[10:54:19] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage7/ as was
[10:55:15] <archivist> added some L shape to make an almost box section http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0268.JPG
[10:55:26] <archivist> huge difference
[10:55:49] <mrsunshine> oh and i thought my motor was uggly :P
[10:55:58] <archivist> :)
[10:56:07] <archivist> I created fugly
[10:56:14] <mrsunshine> haha =)
[10:56:26] <mrsunshine> and i thought my room was messy ...
[10:56:33] <mrsunshine> well.. that shows me ;P
[10:57:03] <archivist> that was where I used to work, the machine is here at home now
[10:57:16] <mrsunshine> ahh ok =)
[10:57:52] <archivist> and Im not erm tidy here either
[10:58:02] <mrsunshine> i want to get a X1 column, (got a super X1 now), would open up a bit for easier modifying for stiffness
[10:58:40] <mrsunshine> or make myself a hefty column from some 15x15cm H-beam or something :P
[10:59:12] <archivist> I just went to scrap yard and got a couple of L shape and added to the rear and a bit to mount to the base
[10:59:38] <archivist> stops the rotational twist of the column
[11:00:20] <archivist> could only cut ally and brass before, steel no problem after
[11:00:43] <mrsunshine> nice =)
[11:01:08] <mrsunshine> i was thinking of trying to find some rubber bushings for the motor also that i could use
[11:01:23] <mrsunshine> to eat some vibrations, incase they just wont go away =)
[11:02:09] <archivist> my column resonated with the motor, making it stiffer raises the resonant frequency
[11:02:52] <mrsunshine> as i use timing belt and the tension doesnt need to be that high i guess some rubber bushings of some kind should be usable
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[11:04:22] <mrsunshine> casting the whole column with concrete maybe :P
[11:05:43] <archivist> bigger the better
[11:06:08] <mrsunshine> mm, i want the mill on my old work
[11:06:12] <mrsunshine> one of those real oldies
[11:06:31] <mrsunshine> stirdy like hell =)
[11:06:43] <mrsunshine> could drive a fork lift into it and it wouldnt budge :P
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[11:46:14] <jthornton> mrsunshine: did you find out what was wrong with your motor?
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[12:11:31] <mrsunshine> checked it now, layed it on a flat surface and built up to the axle, and its not bent
[12:12:00] <mrsunshine> but got it kinda straight on now, and noticed if i put a little screw in the taper bush removal hole it got ALOT more stable
[12:12:31] <mrsunshine> tho the toothed belt sound wasnt to fun to listen to but :P
[12:13:17] <jthornton> glad your making progress with it
[12:13:31] <mrsunshine> so it will have to do now so i can mill out the casting pattern for the real motor mount :P
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[12:13:52] <mrsunshine> gah, forgot to buy more 0.75 cable yesterday :/
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[12:28:19] <mrsunshine> is there any easy way to read impulses using emc? :)
[12:28:23] <mrsunshine> im thinking rpm reading
[12:28:29] <mrsunshine> just pulsing an input pin or something
[12:29:49] <mrsunshine> was thinking just a opto thingie and a hole in a disk to read the current rpm =)
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[12:33:19] <jthornton> I would think a 1/2 on, 1/2 off disk would be easier to catch than a hole
[12:34:19] <mrsunshine> jthornton, ye might be =) as im only counting revolutions that shouldnt be a problem to have insted =) anyhow, seems it will be only about 66.6hz so i guess that should be readable :P
[12:34:26] <mrsunshine> at a maximum that is
[12:39:37] <mrsunshine> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Closed_Loop_Spindle_Speed_Control looks like what im looking for =)
[12:39:47] <mrsunshine> even counts 1 time per revolution =)
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[12:42:07] <Valen> actually a half and half will give you 2 position inputs per rotation, (or could do) which may help things
[12:42:39] <mrsunshine> Valen, true if i trigger on both rising and falling edge
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[14:16:47] <pcw_home> 1/2 on 1/2 off would give 4 counts per rev in quadrature and you get index in the bargain
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[14:19:36] <pcw_home> also 4 counts per rev has roughly 16 times better positional accuracy than 1 count/rev for a torque mode drive
[14:26:10] <JT-Shop> morning Peter
[14:27:31] <pcw_home> morning JT-Shop
[14:30:03] <pcw_home> 1/2 on 1/2 off is neat with quadrature because eithe A or B can be used as index so you get quadrature and index on 2 wires
[14:32:35] <pcw_home> Roofing weather?
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[14:46:19] <JT-Shop> 37F and overcast today so yea roofing time :)
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[14:47:44] <JT-Shop> Sunday is rain so inside work... maybe solder up the MAX6675 and the multiplexer to the proto board
[14:48:34] <pcw_home> wow its colder here (29F which may be a record for almost March)
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[14:53:28] <pcw_home> Looked like you had 1/2 or more the shingles up lats picture I saw
[14:56:24] <JT-Shop> yea the East side is done, I have to fix a slight lack of prior calculation error on the west side fascia board then I can get started on it
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[15:11:16] <Lbaroudi> hi anyone expert in cnc4pc c11g breakout board with emc ?
[15:11:31] <pcw_home> Must be cold, theres frost on the sheep
[15:13:07] <mrsunshine> well positional accuracy is now what i want atm for the spindle just need to read the rpm =)
[15:15:28] <JT-Shop> I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I have used one in the past
[15:15:56] <pcw_home> the accuracy is important for threading and tapping (not an issue if you are building a router)
[15:17:17] <JT-Shop> but mine is a C1G
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[15:22:27] <Lbaroudi> :) add 1 then
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[15:30:03] <JT-Shop> I hope the sheep still have their coats on
[15:30:32] <Lbaroudi> me2 jt
[15:30:48] <JT-Shop> so did you have a question?
[15:31:44] <JT-Shop> wow CNC4PC has EMC examples on their web site for the C11G
[15:32:53] <pcw_home> They have wool until early summer (when it falls off in tatters)
[15:34:41] <Lbaroudi> wait a moment this is to ask how to connect each to emc and have it up and running withou spoiling this is not an ad for cnc4pc lool
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[15:42:15] <JT-Shop> yea, I remember you asking something last night but not exactly what the question is
[15:45:00] <Lbaroudi> yes
[15:46:03] <Lbaroudi> i posted question in the form but is'nt listed due to me not adding title haha I am bad
[15:46:16] <Lbaroudi> I dont know how to post it back
[15:47:52] <Lbaroudi> my question was if c11g need external power and where is the 5 v pin in the board
[15:51:39] <JT-Shop> yea, if you don't include topic it won't get put into the database, to repost you just have to type it over again
[15:51:59] <atmega328> It requires a 5VDC @ 1000 milliamps power supply to operate.
[15:53:42] <JT-Shop> seems like the wiring diagram is separate from the manual http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G54WG.pdf
[16:00:09] <Lbaroudi> thanks
[16:00:26] <Lbaroudi> see i have repost it dud in http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,38/id,7469/lang,english/
[16:01:34] <Lbaroudi> I also spoke with the owner and yes he assure it does need external power to pins and other pins out
[16:02:14] <atmega328> It is also stated in the manual, silkscreened on the board, and in the wiring diagram.
[16:02:20] <JT-Shop> the owner is very fast at answering questions about his products as i recall
[16:02:45] <Lbaroudi> atmega238 you are right but its not so clear os stright which pin
[16:03:05] <Lbaroudi> anyway I solved part of the puzzle ;)
[16:03:31] <JT-Shop> solve one part at a time and you will get to the end of the puzzle
[16:03:37] <Lbaroudi> yes JT he is nice to answer me in weekend
[16:05:06] <Lbaroudi> yes there is nothing like taking a pill and you know it all
[16:05:25] <atmega328> I used to know everything
[16:05:30] <atmega328> but, that was a long time ago.
[16:05:49] <JT-Shop> yea, that was a long time ago for me too
[16:06:32] <JT-Shop> seems like the more I learn the more I realize that I don't know...
[16:07:28] <Lbaroudi> i used to know nothing but now I dont know anything
[16:08:33] <atmega328> well, if you need to know anything, just ask... I have a 14 year old daughter.
[16:08:41] <Lbaroudi> lol the problem i wont be happy to spoile bunch of hunders of $$
[16:09:33] <Lbaroudi> atmega I also have 14yo daughter
[16:09:41] <atmega328> I'm sorry.
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[16:10:19] <atmega328> mine knows everything.
[16:10:35] <Lbaroudi> are you into aurdino and microcontroller things
[16:10:39] <atmega328> except how old she is
[16:10:54] <atmega328> I like AVR's
[16:11:11] <Lbaroudi> they like you even ;)
[16:11:30] <atmega328> and I like the openness and learning curve for aurduino
[16:12:09] <Tom_itx> it just teaches you to rely on other's code
[16:12:15] <atmega328> sometimes I can even spell it.
[16:12:26] <atmega328> I rely on others code all day long
[16:12:42] <atmega328> but, I can also re-write anything I want
[16:13:02] <Tom_itx> so why bother with arduino then?
[16:13:31] <Lbaroudi> I am about to come back to microcontroller after loooong time from ASM Z80 and 8085 blah blah after the cnc is ...
[16:13:33] <atmega328> the bootloader makes using them trivial, the libraries are there if you need/want them
[16:14:37] <Lbaroudi> tel me this is oftopic anyway whats the boot loader for ?
[16:14:44] <JT-Shop> the Ardunio was easy for a beginner like me to play with
[16:15:01] <Tom_itx> yeah they make it easy and the boards are nice
[16:15:12] <Tom_itx> i just prefer knowing what's going on
[16:15:38] <atmega328> so you write straight machine code, or did you write your own compiler for them?
[16:15:41] <Tom_itx> Lbaroudi, the bootloaders can do a variety of things based on what the user needs are
[16:16:18] <Tom_itx> i use asm and c thank you for asking
[16:16:35] <Lbaroudi> machine code and lot of compiler was there
[16:17:01] <atmega328> sure, but that relies on other peoples code
[16:17:04] <Lbaroudi> :) tom yes asm is fine but c is C
[16:17:40] <Tom_itx> atmega328 i think you got my point
[16:17:46] <atmega328> sure :)
[16:18:06] <atmega328> and I agree with it... to a point.
[16:18:23] <Tom_itx> the idea is, if you do have a code problem you will have the ability to go in and fix it
[16:18:31] <Tom_itx> so often in a lib you can't
[16:19:08] <Lbaroudi> I guess you can controll cnc with arduino... do you agree ..?
[16:19:19] <atmega328> libs are easy enough to change too, but they lose something when they are no longer 'standard'
[16:19:33] <Tom_itx> it would be a bit small for that probably
[16:20:19] <Lbaroudi> what about the atmega328 how many ios it have?
[16:20:32] <atmega328> I don't really like the big arduino boards, I have a bunch of modern device RBBB's that I do like
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[16:21:40] <Lbaroudi> atmega328: kill em trow them away those big boars just tell me when and where is your trash hahaha
[16:21:43] <atmega328> 18 digital, 6 analog
[16:21:50] <atmega328> err... 13
[16:22:18] <Tom_itx> 23 general purpose io
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[16:22:52] <Lbaroudi> any larger ios for atmega?
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[16:22:56] <Tom_itx> sure
[16:23:10] <Tom_itx> atmega2560 has alot
[16:23:27] <Tom_itx> 100pin tqfp iirc
[16:23:46] <Tom_itx> 86 io
[16:24:08] <atmega328> I can't solder that
[16:24:20] <Tom_itx> with practice you could
[16:24:31] <Tom_itx> i solder tqfp all the time
[16:24:52] <Lbaroudi> its hard to solder but not impossible
[16:25:23] <Lbaroudi> i use blower or hot air iron after gluing it and so easy
[16:26:12] <Lbaroudi> i am doing the cnc for pcb mainly for smd boards
[16:26:36] <atmega328> I use a flux pen, magnifying glass, small tip, wick
[16:27:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/reflow/cooking.JPG
[16:27:20] <Tom_itx> i use that nowdays
[16:27:38] <atmega328> cool
[16:28:36] <cpresser_> nice oven, Tom_itx
[16:28:39] <Lbaroudi> my trick is glue it first then take hold of its legs and slowly do your job
[16:28:41] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/USB_chips.jpg
[16:28:47] <Tom_itx> i do quite a few though
[16:28:57] <atmega328> wow
[16:29:22] <atmega328> I do very few :) solder one leg down, then there is a lot of hope involved.
[16:29:42] <Tom_itx> i use a scope for hand soldering since it's alot easier
[16:29:51] <Lbaroudi> lol we are in EMC hope admin wonk kik us
[16:29:55] <Tom_itx> for 0603 and 0402 stuff
[16:30:00] <atmega328> scope?
[16:30:12] <Lbaroudi> microscope maybe
[16:30:15] <atmega328> oh
[16:30:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/scope2.jpg
[16:30:22] <Tom_itx> binocular scope
[16:30:41] <atmega328> if I had that much space, I'd have a mill
[16:30:52] <Tom_itx> it's in the garage
[16:31:19] <atmega328> my garage is full :(
[16:31:35] <Tom_itx> full of the wrong stuff
[16:31:43] <Lbaroudi> Tome arent you one of the electronic blogger who hackers site posting your topics i think i saw your oven someware
[16:31:56] <Tom_itx> i'm in #avr alot
[16:32:08] <atmega328> perhaps... I probably have $40k worth of dive gear out there
[16:32:51] <Lbaroudi> :)
[16:33:46] <Lbaroudi> tom how old is your daughter then ;)
[16:33:51] <atmega328> I have your light... that's the magnifying glass I use for solder
[16:35:00] <archivist> binocular used for turning http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010237.JPG
[16:36:25] <JT-Shop> archivist: that is a pretty clean area in your shop :)
[16:36:29] <Tom_itx> what do you make that small?
[16:36:29] <atmega328> heh
[16:36:38] <archivist> JT-Shop, :)
[16:36:46] <atmega328> I have a binocular scope out in the garage somewhere
[16:36:57] <Lbaroudi> if doctors saw you they would .... ..
[16:36:59] <archivist> hand turning clock/watch parts
[16:37:05] <Tom_itx> i figured
[16:37:41] <Tom_itx> i had confidence someone would tie all our rambling back to machining/emc
[16:37:43] <archivist> that was where I used to work, I dont have the lathe but the scope came home with me as its mine
[16:38:19] <JT-Shop> this is what I have lol http://www.amazon.com/2-5X-OptiVisor-Loupe-Headset-Magnifier/dp/B002YP1SBY
[16:38:30] <Tom_itx> i put a clear filter on the bottom of mine to keep the smoke from fogging the lens
[16:39:19] <Lbaroudi> i see some experts in here
[16:39:47] <archivist> for what definition of expert
[16:40:48] <Lbaroudi> expert in watching tiny little things
[16:41:47] <Lbaroudi> see the milling machine and ovens arent made for mature hun
[16:42:03] * JT-Shop can't put it off any longer and goes out to cut the tails off
[16:43:14] <archivist> I do do tiny 2mm dia http://gears.archivist.info/P1010320_200.JPG
[16:43:59] <archivist> better view http://gears.archivist.info/P1010320_hires.JPG
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[16:45:38] <Lbaroudi> penney elnalrged lol
[16:45:57] <archivist> 5p a uk coin
[16:46:43] <archivist> thats on the lathe bed where the scope was, used the light to get the camera to focus
[16:47:21] <Lbaroudi> do you use cnc now for this sort of work
[16:48:03] <archivist> that was cut on the cnc but turned on the lathe
[16:52:01] <Lbaroudi> where did you go atmega328
[16:54:02] <Lbaroudi> atmega i recently saw candian guy who is doing his own pick and place, he is almost done with hardware and electronics i think only he need software
[16:54:25] <Tom_itx> does he use a camera?
[16:54:45] <Tom_itx> some guys i know want to make a delta arm pick and place
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[16:55:21] <Lbaroudi> i saw camera in his box of video but yet i guess he is not having no combination of software
[16:55:41] <Lbaroudi> let me find the youtube link
[16:56:44] <Lbaroudi> do you think EMC is capable of cam and extra related plugin ?
[16:57:14] <Tom_itx> hmm, i never thought of using emc for that
[16:58:00] <Tom_itx> the only issue would be the object recognition
[16:58:57] <Lbaroudi> see for your self http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoCJFJsCXPQ&feature=uploademail
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[17:03:41] <Lbaroudi> for a cnc it's cool design even I asked him how he managed to connect square tube of aluminume to MDF wood and he said it was difficult and shall post its cad when he can
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[17:03:54] <mrsunshine> has anyone used these magnetic encoders on a mill ? :)
[17:04:00] <mrsunshine> they seem kinda neat =)
[17:04:24] <Tom_itx> so they can pick up metal shavings?
[17:04:46] <mrsunshine> Tom_itx, depends on how to encapulate it, as it doesnt need a huge magnet ...
[17:04:51] <mrsunshine> just a small one on the shaft of the motor :P
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[17:06:26] <Lbaroudi> you men it pick up thing by magnet ... no it is air pump that suck air in the needle
[17:06:59] <Lbaroudi> he is using fish aquariume pump
[17:07:37] <Tom_itx> i use one for manual pick n place
[17:07:45] <Tom_itx> it works but could use a bit more suction
[17:08:38] <Lbaroudi> yeah you may need to store those suction into hug can like whats found in tire shop
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[17:10:25] <Lbaroudi> i wonder what cam function and where exactly the ideal place to put
[17:11:05] <Lbaroudi> i havent ever dealt with camera and image recognition b4
[17:11:20] <Tom_itx> me either
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[17:20:36] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,7419/limit,6/limitstart,12/lang,english/#7474
[17:21:00] <JT-Shop> can a stepper output be used to turn on a pneumatic solenoid?
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[17:23:59] <skunkworks> I think you just would not know what sequence the stepper coils would be in.
[17:24:07] <skunkworks> at any given time
[17:24:20] <pcw_home> I guess I could but you need to know which winding is energized, easy for quadrature not for step+dir
[17:24:37] <pcw_home> ha SW beat me to it
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[17:26:57] <pcw_home> quadrature = "wave mode" = stepgen mode 2
[17:27:37] <Lbaroudi> i guess motors are conical and we are facing all trobles to change it to liner in cnc so belts and gear i saw some liner motors but never try them
[17:29:25] <pcw_home> and linear motors have their limitations (fast and light but not much force)
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[17:30:31] <Lbaroudi> I recall we use to repair old wenchester drives equal to hard disk this days it ha the heads hanged on coiled magnitron solenoid but that had lot of diffrent drivers and set of board, claculation is needed which i m not redy to recall
[17:31:12] <Lbaroudi> still hard disks uses sames concept but semi liner
[17:31:47] <pcw_home> Old 14 inch drives had a fairly impressive head positioning voice coil
[17:32:04] <JT-Shop> thanks guys
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[17:33:30] <JT-Shop> what is "wave mode"
[17:33:41] <Lbaroudi> well guys have anyone built an arduino to controll hard disk heads spining motor and coil to read data ???? its a good hayking job
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[17:34:04] <pcw_home> quadrature
[17:34:42] <pcw_home> dont think an arduino is fast enough to deal with hard disk data rate
[17:35:03] <Tom_itx> probably not
[17:35:32] <JT-Shop> it's fast enough to control a smoker :)
[17:35:53] <pcw_home> much faster than needed for that...
[17:35:58] <Lbaroudi> liast can controll something right
[17:36:05] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:36:06] <Tom_itx> UPS sucks
[17:36:19] <Tom_itx> guaranteed 3 day delivery won't be here til monday
[17:36:21] <Tom_itx> dammit
[17:36:28] <Tom_itx> i want my atom
[17:36:43] <Lbaroudi> once i checked inside hard disk an atmel not recalling it ####
[17:36:44] <pcw_home> different definition of guaranteed
[17:36:51] <JT-Shop> building an atom smasher?
[17:36:58] <Tom_itx> i've been sittin here lookin at an empty case for too long now
[17:37:02] <Tom_itx> the case arrived
[17:37:14] <Lbaroudi> what case ?
[17:37:21] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: you can borrow one of mine till yours comes in...
[17:37:25] <Tom_itx> apex one from the egg store
[17:37:38] <Tom_itx> jt you don't have a d525
[17:38:02] <JT-Shop> no, a d510mo
[17:38:10] <Lbaroudi> use 555 to controll hard drive
[17:38:21] <JT-Shop> and a spare one too boot
[17:38:27] <Tom_itx> well since they were only $5 diff in price i figured i'd get one to test latency with
[17:39:20] <Lbaroudi> jt-shop thanks for the link
[17:40:35] <JT-Shop> np
[17:40:48] * JT-Shop wanders outside to cut some more tails off
[17:41:02] <Lbaroudi> now how about lpt port is not found in new motherboards what else can you suggest ?
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[17:43:51] <pcw_home> PCI or PCIE parallel port card?
[17:44:51] <pcw_home> safer for MB as well (though most of the new Atom MBs have parallel)
[17:45:58] <skunkworks> pcw_home: do you know a source for surplus berger d650 drives?
[17:46:08] <Lbaroudi> nah i got new motherboard withou it and had to rebring old pc to life win xp or ubuntu emc2
[17:46:15] <skunkworks> berger laher
[17:48:59] <pcw_home> skunkworks: not off hand, dont even know what that is
[17:49:50] <pcw_home> Lbaroudi a PCI parallel port card is only a few $
[17:52:26] <skunkworks> pcw_home: heh - thanks anyways :) it is a 5 phase stepper drive
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[17:54:32] <Lbaroudi> yes it cheap but unavailable PCIE around me yet
[17:55:13] <pcw_home> thats pretty exotic you have a bad one?
[17:55:39] <Lbaroudi> its intle
[17:55:43] <Lbaroudi> bad one
[17:56:06] <pcw_home> Lbaroudi pcie parallel port cards are only a little more
[17:56:59] <Lbaroudi> unavailable yet to arrive
[17:57:19] <Lbaroudi> i tried usb but aint work
[17:59:59] <pcw_home> skunkworks: you have a bad one?
[18:01:45] <Lbaroudi> cnc4pc having expensive usb to parallel
[18:11:07] <Tom_itx> if i got the 7i43 board would i still need a daughter card for isolation to my stepper drivers?
[18:12:28] <pcw_home> Are your stepper drivers isolated?
[18:12:38] <Tom_itx> no idea for sure
[18:12:48] <Tom_itx> it's an original flashcut system
[18:13:02] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure where they put the isolation. i can look later on
[18:13:13] <Tom_itx> the drivers themselves are enclosed
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[18:15:11] <Tom_itx> i was considering different steppers and drivers anyway at some point
[18:15:21] <pcw_home> isolation is probably not needed but can save you from expensive mistakes
[18:15:23] <pcw_home> If the drivers are isolated I would not bother, But be careful not to hot plug anything
[18:15:24] <pcw_home> you dont want all the ground leakage current going through a signal pin
[18:15:30] <Tom_itx> can you estimate what sort of feedrates i could expect with that setup?
[18:15:40] <Tom_itx> i know
[18:16:01] <Tom_itx> it a standard 20tpi leadscrew
[18:16:03] <pcw_home> limited by your step drives/step motors/mechanics
[18:16:32] <pcw_home> 7I43 can generate > 10 MHz step rates
[18:16:34] <Tom_itx> i'm just hoping for some improvement
[18:16:40] <Tom_itx> it's not very good presently
[18:16:45] <Tom_itx> i'm sorta used to it
[18:18:25] <pcw_home> also hardware stepgen makes fairly lousy latency MBs usable (say 200 uSec)
[18:19:41] <pcw_home> You do need a real EPP capable port for 7I43 (MB ports usually OK NetMos PCI ones NG)
[18:20:49] <Tom_itx> the board does both usb and parport right?
[18:21:17] <Tom_itx> the d525 has a parport on the backplane but i dunno what it's specs are
[18:22:05] <pcw_home> Yes, some models (the -P model is parallel port only - 7I43H is high speed USB only)
[18:22:12] <Tom_itx> and.. i'd rather not blow it out on the first day :D
[18:22:31] <Tom_itx> what's the U ver?
[18:23:14] <pcw_home> If you are used to micros, consider the 7I43 I/O like micro GPIO pins
[18:23:16] <pcw_home> U is USB and Parallel
[18:23:50] <Tom_itx> is the FTDI chip full usb2?
[18:24:02] <Tom_itx> the atmel ones aren't
[18:24:08] <pcw_home> on the -H yes
[18:24:43] <pcw_home> also 7I61 has parallel and high speed USB (but more $)
[18:24:44] <Tom_itx> so for flexibility i may be better off with the -U
[18:25:49] <Tom_itx> i don't see it in the pricing
[18:27:15] <pcw_home> 7I61 is probably not in the pricing yet (its 96 I/O Spartan6 based card)
[18:27:35] <Tom_itx> is it similar to the 60?
[18:28:48] <Tom_itx> can the 7i43 be reconfigured to drive servos / encoders later down the road?
[18:28:50] <pcw_home> looks like a 7I60 but 256 BGA spartan 6 and USB/Parallel
[18:28:55] <pcw_home> bbl
[18:29:11] <Tom_itx> thanx
[18:30:42] <skunkworks> pcw_home: yes - think it got struck by lightning
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[18:31:18] <skunkworks> one was a few shorted transistors (yes transistors) but the other one seems to have other issues.
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[18:36:05] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[18:36:24] <IchGuckLive> Space shuttle is reatching the iss live HD -> http://www.ustream.tv/channel-popup/nasa-hd-tv
[18:40:42] <Tom_itx> danimal_garage you here?
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[18:54:53] <skunkworks> sure sounds funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiwNFQRulfU
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[18:59:49] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks: the speedup is to low i think
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[19:01:46] <Lbaroudi> what 2d or 3d design tool do you use for EMC under ubuntu ?
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[19:30:21] <archivist> ew that has an off centre/bent drive shaft, it's binding once per rev
[19:31:46] <archivist> Lbaroudi, cam under ubuntu is in its infancy
[19:33:43] <psha> http://xkcd.com/844/
[19:33:44] <psha> :D
[19:33:49] <archivist> Lbaroudi, recommendations depend on what you want to make
[19:36:11] <archivist> psha, Im just refactoring part of my code :)
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[19:40:07] <psha> yea 'throw it away and start from a scracth' ;)
[19:40:45] <archivist> nope not doing that, just changing my requirements
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[19:51:42] <JT-Shop> finally progressing forward after going backward all morning :)
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[20:58:21] <UnderSampled> Hello
[20:58:54] <UnderSampled> How do I determine if i'm outputting to the parallel port, or if it's a driver board issue?
[20:59:15] <UnderSampled> I'm using a pci parallel port card
[20:59:36] <UnderSampled> and I don't know which "parport base address" to use
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[21:01:18] <UnderSampled> also, is the parport base address in the stepper conf wizard supposed to start with a "0x"?
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[21:01:23] <UnderSampled> or does it add that itself
[21:01:25] <UnderSampled> ?
[21:05:27] <psha> UnderSampled: usually partport base addresses are available in dmesg
[21:05:30] <psha> dmesg | grep parport
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[21:06:37] <UnderSampled> psha:
[21:06:38] <UnderSampled> ok
[21:07:03] <UnderSampled> why does it say PC-style at 0xac00 (0xb000)
[21:07:11] <UnderSampled> why does it have the second one in parens?
[21:07:17] <UnderSampled> and which should I use?
[21:08:11] <micges> check also: lspci -vv
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[21:11:23] <psha> first
[21:11:27] <psha> (i guess)
[21:11:34] <UnderSampled> well, IT WORKS!
[21:11:38] <UnderSampled> :D
[21:23:53] <JT-Shop> UnderSampled: it is even simpler now you can use the port index http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_parallel_port.html
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[22:27:10] <cpresser_> i am building a large DRO with 7-segment-leds. the hardware is quite okay.. not i am wondering how to integrate ist into emc
[22:27:42] <cpresser_> i can control it in userspace. any ideas how to wire it into hal?
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[22:38:40] <garage_seb> cpresser_, write a hal comp with input pins that accept the coords you want to show, and cause the 7-segment display to light up in the appropriate way
[22:39:51] <cpresser_> garage_seb: i thought of that. but since i would need ~120Hal-Pins i used a microcontroller to controll the displays
[22:41:03] <garage_seb> sure
[22:41:08] <garage_seb> talk to the micro from your comp
[22:41:34] <cpresser_> that also works. but i dont know ho to do it from wihtin hal
[22:41:45] <cpresser_> <- bad programmer. little insight into emc
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[22:44:24] <garage_seb> i gotta go, i'll be back probably in about 5 or 6 hours and we can talk about it then if you like.
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[22:54:50] <skunkworks> the issue I see is - what are you going to display? Hal has machine coordinates for sure.. but I don't know if you can see current coordinate offsets/g92/mumble.. maybe halui has pins?
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[22:58:39] <cpresser_> skunkworks: halui has absolute and relative position. i dont want more
[23:00:34] <cpresser_> so i would just need to create a new comp which talks to my hardware; and then wire them up in HAL?
[23:04:00] <skunkworks> probably :)
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[23:05:59] <cpresser_> time to buy more beer and lure a real programmer into my shop :D
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[23:39:56] <cradek> but beer and programming don't mix
[23:40:02] <cradek> (eh who am I kidding?)
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[23:43:08] <Tom_itx> cpresser_, use a 7447 to make coding easier
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[23:43:34] <Tom_itx> bcd decoder
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