#emc | Logs for 2011-02-18

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[00:13:55] * JT-Shop has temporary lights in the shop :)
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[00:27:38] <skunkworks> a reason not to use emc/linux.... ;) http://www.cnczone.com/forums/898490-post48.html
[00:28:02] <skunkworks> Keeping it light.... Keeping it light... :)
[00:28:46] <Connor2> would it be possible to run a USB based monitor on EMC ?
[00:29:08] <Connor2> I have a small one with Touch Screen that would be great for a GUI interface.
[00:29:38] <Connor2> and 2nd, is it possible to us M62-65 and digital output as a momentary like pypvc buttons ?
[00:30:22] <skunkworks> I think you would have to do an on/off. think of coolant on/off. two separate gcodes.
[00:30:57] <Connor2> Well.. the thing is.. if I do momentary, I can use toggle.. and have either button or gcode hit the toggle (using OR)
[00:31:22] <Connor2> and thus, have it so I can turn off the vacuum via button if needed. etc..
[00:31:53] <Connor2> I have it working with both now.. but, if the gcode has the vacuum going, I can't turn it off via my button.
[00:32:07] <Guest93546> sold my motorcycle :D
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[00:32:16] <TJB1> yes.
[00:33:04] <Connor2> someone suggested ladder.. but, that's a large learning curve for such a simple task.
[00:33:36] <skunkworks> I am sure you could do it so that the button takes priority... but I don't know of a way of resetting the m62 bit outside of gcode. Maybe others would know
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[00:42:10] <Connor2> OKay, question, can you setup a pyvcp button to just issue a G code?
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[00:43:52] <skunkworks> ok - you need to look over the manual. :) http://linuxcnc.org/docs/ ( here is what you are looking for) http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gui_halui.html#sub:MDI
[00:44:07] <Connor2> I'm looking now.. have been for a while....
[00:46:20] <skunkworks> that seems like a good solution... The only thing to remember is that you cannot issue mdi commands while in auto. (running a program)
[00:47:06] <Connor2> well.. that sucks..
[00:47:27] <Connor2> that kinda ruins it for this use..
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[00:51:53] <skunkworks> I think if you think about it - there is probably a solution.. If the machine is in auto - flip the bit - if the machine isn't running a program - use mdi calls.
[00:51:55] <skunkworks> maybe ;)
[00:53:07] <Connor2> need a if then else
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[00:53:51] <skunkworks> right - look at all the logic componants in hal
[00:54:18] <Connor2> I used OR2 to be able to use the button and digital out at the same time...
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[01:05:14] <danimal_garage> ladder isnt too bad, and that's an easy one to learn on
[01:07:16] <skunkworks> I like classic ladder also - a little odd to begin with if your not used to it. (my last bout with ladder was in college)
[01:07:47] <danimal_garage> yea, i had a few tough ones
[01:08:06] <danimal_garage> my first bout with classic ladder (or any ladder) was my toolchanger
[01:08:20] <danimal_garage> it was definitely a learning experience
[01:08:35] <danimal_garage> now i understand it somewhat well
[01:09:34] <skunkworks> heh - same here...
[01:09:40] <jthornton> it's pretty simple "last one wins"
[01:10:09] <skunkworks> my first was reading barcode rings on the tool and picking the right one ;)
[01:10:33] <jthornton> is the barcode some kind of BCD?
[01:10:46] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuRea6615s
[01:11:10] <skunkworks> I used it as strait binary (15 bits) I think the original control used octal
[01:11:43] <skunkworks> I take the 15bits and convert them to a number in classic ladder and compare it to emc's requested tool number/
[01:11:54] <jthornton> yea, you have a zillion tool holder spots :)
[01:12:05] <skunkworks> heh - only 60
[01:12:19] <jthornton> I do something similar on the CHNC for the turret
[01:13:13] <skunkworks> your ladder is in the wiki - right?
[01:13:33] <jthornton> on the forum I think
[01:13:39] <skunkworks> I think I had studied it :)
[01:13:58] <jthornton> :)
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[01:37:54] <Connor2> well, I don't think their is a way to do it without ladder.. both inputs have to be momentary used though toggle.. or, I meed a if else
[01:44:11] <Guest82051> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3090951/Screen%20shot%202011-02-17%20at%208.43.25%20PM.png
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[01:44:20] <TJB1> real good tutor...
[01:53:19] <danimal_garage> Connor2, yea, just learn ladder. it's pretty neat when you get to know it.
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[02:01:27] <coldelectrons> KimK: Thanks for the suggestion - scaling things has worked out pretty good
[02:02:25] <KimK> You're welcome, glad to hear it worked
[02:38:16] <L84Supper> http://www.dreamhost.com/ have there been any problems with hosting the EMC website here?
[02:38:43] <L84Supper> I'm looking for reliable hosts
[02:45:20] <Tom_itx> yeah i'd like to find one too
[02:50:05] <Jymmm> bluehost.com
[02:50:31] <Jymmm> one free domain too, unlimited domain hosting
[02:51:15] <Jymmm> shell access
[03:07:09] <danimal_garage> bluehost sucks
[03:07:19] <danimal_garage> i have it now, rewdiculous down time
[03:09:23] <danimal_garage> even ipower was better
[03:09:54] <L84Supper> hmm... bluehost comes up often
[03:10:19] <L84Supper> liquidweb has never been down, just a bit pricey
[03:13:30] <Jymmm> ve7it: cq cq cq dx
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[03:36:16] <Connor2> anyone know how toggle2nist works ??? would that be helpful in what I'm trying to do?
[03:39:13] <danimal_garage> bluehost was down for probably 72 hours total for me last year
[03:39:20] <danimal_garage> fairly frequently
[03:39:50] <Connor2> L84Supper: I do webhosting. I run a small webdesign company.
[03:41:22] <L84Supper> Connor2: I'm looking for hosts on the scale of liquidweb.com
[03:42:31] <Connor2> yea. I have 1/2 rack of eq in the datacenter. not anywhere that big.. Though.. I have some windows servers that have been up for almost 2 years now...
[03:42:37] <Connor2> without a reboot. :)
[03:43:29] <Connor2> What are you hosting with them ?
[03:43:46] <Connor2> or need to host...
[03:44:37] <L84Supper> commercial sites with ~1TB /mo
[03:46:08] <Connor2> okay, how is toggle different from toggle2nist ?
[03:46:50] <L84Supper> I wonder how busy linuxcnc.org is? coreboot.org is ~300GB/mo
[03:48:17] <Connor2> okay.. I give up... I can't figure out how to do this... shouldn't be that fracking hard.
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[04:35:32] <TJB1> I love when people on forums try to confuse people with there little machining knowledge ;)
[04:35:46] <TJB1> this part was made to 5/1000th of an inch! and everyone is like OMG!?
[04:41:59] <Tom_itx> 5 tenths (as generally referred to) would be more impressive.
[04:42:09] <Tom_itx> as in 10000ths
[04:57:37] <toastydeath> five tenths is not all that impressive for a machine tool made in the last forty years
[04:57:53] <toastydeath> for anything under eight inches
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[05:51:25] <KimK> Connor2: Still around?
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[06:45:38] <Connor> KimK: Yea. I'm here
[06:50:48] <KimK> Connor2: Did you get your toggle(?) working?
[06:51:30] <Connor> I have it working as so far to turn on/off via button or G code.. but, I can't toggle over ride it if the gcode has turned it on.
[06:54:10] <KimK> OK. Sounds pretty good, actually. Do you have two user gcodes? And only one works? Can you pastebin.com them?
[06:55:05] <Connor> I was using the M64 P0 and M65 P0 to turn it on/off.
[06:55:25] <KimK> Is this a laser?
[06:56:07] <Connor2> no. Router
[06:56:53] <KimK> OK. And M64 M65 turn on and off that SSR of yesterday?
[06:58:21] <Connor2> http://pastebin.com/yiUHZYPR
[06:58:42] <Connor2> yea.. moved it to pin2 on the 2nd parport vs pin1.. p2-9 can source more current.
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[06:58:55] <KimK> I've never used the M62-65 group. I always define my own, M100-199. But yours should work.
[06:59:25] <Connor> Uses the digital I/O stuff... I'llbe back in about 30 min.. wife needs something.
[07:01:25] <KimK> OK.
[07:02:52] <KimK> The motion.digital-out-00 ranges from 00 to 03 and represents your P0 to P3 choices? I'll guess so. OK.
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[07:16:54] <Connor> back. yea.
[07:17:13] <Connor> I think you can have up to 64 maybe ?
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[07:30:02] <KimK> It looks like this is what you have wired: http://imagebin.org/138540 and although your "or" is maybe not the best way to do this, you might still be able to make it work as is by saying M64 P0 (on) and on the next line M65 P0 (off)? Try it and see?
[07:31:16] <Connor> that was my 2nd attempt.. first attempt I had the OR on just the pyvcp.vac
[07:31:26] <KimK> I haven't looked up the toggle, I'm presuming it takes a pulse to switch it and another pulse to switch it back?
[07:31:39] <Connor> correct.
[07:33:08] <Connor> however, it must not reset until it goes back to 0 state..
[07:33:20] <KimK> It seems as if you avoid the "or conflict" by pulsing it from one side or the other but then going "off" again, you avoid the conflict?
[07:33:53] <KimK> Let me see if there's a better component
[07:34:17] <Connor> their is toggle2nist.. but, I'm not sure it'll work any better.
[07:34:38] <Connor> I need a digital I/O needs to pulse.. or something.
[07:34:40] <KimK> Yes, that's what I mean, always return both sides to zero after toggling to avoid the "or conflict"
[07:34:53] <Connor> right.
[07:35:05] <KimK> And that doesn't work?
[07:35:14] <Connor> I haven't tested that.. let me see.
[07:35:16] <Connor> brb.
[07:36:56] <Connor> yes, turning it on and back off with gcode works.. it stays on.. and then I can manually turn it on/off with the pyvcp button.
[07:37:25] <Connor> which is the desired behavior
[07:37:47] <Connor> except for having to use two gcodes one after the other...
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[07:49:46] <KimK> Well, if you want to keep the two-inputs-only design (instead of 4) then you could try adding two oneshot components, one in series with each input. That's why in pro systems they use two outputs (start and stop) from each switch, and drive a latch of some kind (relay, cross-coupled gates, etc.) "man oneshot"
[07:50:24] <KimK> You'll still have the two G-code problem though, I think.
[07:50:35] <KimK> One after another, I mean
[07:50:42] <Connor> let me look at the oneshot..
[07:51:53] <mrsunshine> hmm, milling operations is that constant "momentum" or increasing by speed? (trying to descide vfd :P )
[07:51:56] <Connor> Hmm.. put oneshot in series with the digital i/o.. might just do it.
[07:53:18] <Connor> set it so that it only triggers on the rising edge...
[07:54:37] <Connor> I'll try that and see.
[08:08:20] <KimK> http://imagebin.org/138544 (sorry, it's getting late and I'm getting lazy) But this shows how things get easier if you use momentary PBs instead of latching PBs. It's a ladder, but you don't have to do it in ladder, you can do it with logic. It's a major design change from what you have though.
[08:09:09] <Connor2> No problem.. I think oneshot will work if I can figure out how to use it..
[08:09:26] <KimK> OK.
[08:10:39] <KimK> mrsunshine: I'm not sure what you're asking about setting up your VFD. Ask again?
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[08:11:43] <KimK> mrsunshine: You almost certainly want speed/RPM/velocity control on a spindle, but is that what you're asking?
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[08:12:15] <mrsunshine> KimK, well the yaskawa inverters has "heavy duty" and "normal duty" mode, and if milling etc is a heavy duty operation i need to buy a vfd taht is bigger then if its normal duty :P
[08:12:38] <mrsunshine> (its about how big vfd i need to buy) .. a 0.55kw vfd can take like 0.2kw in heavy duty mode
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[08:14:43] <mk0> hello all. i heard there's lost motion compensation in emc2. does it really exist?
[08:15:05] <mrsunshine> lost motion ?
[08:15:17] <mrsunshine> backlash compensation exists atleast
[08:15:49] <KimK> Does this have to do with the switching frequency? Baldor VFDs have that, a "normal" mode with midrange (noticeable, 2kHz?) audio whine and full horsepower, and a "quiet mode" (8kHz?) with less noticable audio whine, but about half the horsepower.
[08:16:28] <mrsunshine> KimK, heavy duty is a fixed frequency switching it looks like while normal is pwm
[08:16:38] <mk0> yep backslash, vocabulary gives the first translation as "lost motion"
[08:16:45] <mrsunshine> mk0, =)
[08:16:48] <KimK> mk0: Yes, backlash comp and screw comp tables. But backlash comp does not mean "make all my looseness problems go away".
[08:16:59] <mrsunshine> atleast for steppers, dont know otherwise, im yusing backlash compensation on my mill
[08:17:17] <mrsunshine> better with mechanicaly fix the problem imo =)
[08:17:28] <mk0> )) it is of course in emc2 manual?
[08:18:04] <KimK> mk0: Yes, in the Integrator's Manual, I believe?
[08:18:56] <mk0> thank you, i'm surprised why didn't i thiught about it earlier
[08:19:14] <KimK> No problem, stop by anytime
[08:22:10] <Connor2> one shot did it..
[08:22:22] <KimK> Great!
[08:22:28] <Connor2> fixed it so that oneshot fires on rising and falling.. width = .1
[08:22:55] <Connor2> when M64 P0 is hit.. it pulses the toggle via motion.digitial-out-00
[08:23:39] <Connor2> when M65 P0 goes, it turns OFF the motion.digital-out-00, oneshot see's the falling and sends another pulse to toggle.
[08:23:52] <KimK> OK. It's a little unusual, but if it works and it's safe and you're happy with it, great!
[08:23:55] <Connor2> the OR handles the pulses from the pypvc and oneshot.. to trigger Parport
[08:24:10] <Connor2> okay, so, why is it unusual ?
[08:25:17] <Connor2> Is it because I'm taking a 2 input converting it to 1 input (the gcodes) ?
[08:25:20] <KimK> well, things are generally not done that way, but hey, if it's working for you, that's what counts.
[08:26:16] <KimK> The basic design has that conflict built-inn and then more stuff is added to cover up the problem, if you see what I mean.
[08:26:18] <Connor2> I don't mind sticking with the norm... I just wanted to be able to control the vacuum from gcode on/off.. and if in middle of the job, I can pause it.. and turn off the vacuum manual..
[08:26:28] <KimK> s/inn/in
[08:26:44] <KimK> Sure, no problem.
[08:27:09] <Connor2> what is the norm for that?
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[08:28:11] <Connor2> how do most people automate the vacuum.. or do they?
[08:28:47] <Connor2> I though about just tieing it to the spindle on/off.. but... thats not always when you need the vacuum..
[08:30:16] <KimK> Well, you're using those built-in M codes directly. Usually there's a latch involved (external to EMC2). Like the flood/mist/stop codes (although they have built-ins too). M7=mist start M8=flood start M9=both stop. Something like that.
[08:31:26] <KimK> And usually stop overrides start, which you might be able to do in your system with inverters, but there comes more stuff.
[08:32:13] <KimK> It's OK, use it like it is for now and get to test your machine. You can always make it better later.
[08:32:31] <Connor2> yea.. it's possible for the gcode to trigger the vacuum OFF when it's suppose to be turned ON (if I already have it turned on)
[08:32:44] <Connor2> because of toggle.
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[08:34:10] <Connor2> I might be able to make a latch using toggle and some and/or logic.. but.. that's just getting too complicated..
[08:34:16] <KimK> You'd like the vacuum to come on first and go off last (compared to the spindle)? Yeah, that's a good thing.
[08:34:31] <Connor2> yes..
[08:34:46] <Connor2> and be able to turn on the vac to use to clean up parts after too..
[08:35:12] <Connor2> probably turn OFF the vac during a tool change..
[08:35:17] <Connor2> which would probably be manual..
[08:35:44] <Connor2> I guess that could be done with gcode too.. not sure if my cam can handle that..
[08:36:48] <KimK> You might also be able to use the estop_latch component (you don't have to use it for estop, and you're not limited to one) but I didn't look at that component.
[08:37:21] <Connor2> yea.. I'll look into that tomorrow.. I need to get E-Stop wired into the thing too..
[08:37:22] <KimK> Might take some switch redesign?
[08:37:38] <Connor2> Yea, two buttons instead of one...
[08:37:47] <Connor2> or something..
[08:37:57] <KimK> It's always good to include a charge pump on your stop string if you can.
[08:38:12] <KimK> s/stop/e-stop/
[08:38:22] <Connor2> what does that do?
[08:39:17] <KimK> the PC puts out a square wave while it's alive. The hope is if the PC crashes/freezes that the signal will stop and cut e-stop.
[08:39:55] <Connor2> Ah. So, that requires extra hardware ?
[08:40:49] <KimK> Yes, your e-stop circuit has to detect the square wave. But it's pretty easy to do, if your interface doesn't have it. Anyway, something to think about.
[08:41:13] <Connor2> I may even put a switch on the enclosure door.. that trips the spindle off...
[08:41:16] <KimK> s/the square wave/the "I'm OK" square wave/
[08:41:32] <Connor2> yea.. I call that a keep alive or heart beat pulse..
[08:41:42] <Connor2> in networking and programming.
[08:43:12] <KimK> Sure, switches are good. They make some two-way switches for cabinet doors that can be pushed in momentarily by the closed door, or pulled out to lock by the serviceman for door-open servicing.
[08:44:39] <Connor2> this is a small machine.. 18" x 12" work area... I'll probably use a magnetic or micro lever switch.
[08:45:20] <KimK> OK. Are you using a carpentry/countertop router?
[08:45:55] <KimK> Die grinder? Dremel?
[08:46:40] <Connor> Bosch Colt Palm router
[08:47:12] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/
[08:47:14] <KimK> OK, I've heard good things about the Boschs.
[08:47:52] <Connor> I still need to wire up the end-stops and e-stop switch.
[08:48:22] <Connor> Not taken any pictures since I added in the vacuum system and finished up the computer drawer on the left side..
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[08:53:37] <Connor> let me know what you think of the design and implementation... this is my first attempt at building one...
[08:59:15] <Connor> Off to bed. Talk to you later.
[09:00:48] <RifRaf> second one'll be better
[09:01:20] <KimK> goodnight
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[09:03:56] <mk0> can i compensate with COMP_FILE the axis that is not perpendicular to another? the divergence on 45 cm is about 2-3mm from perpendicular.
[09:04:26] <mk0> the result that i cut not circle but a ellipse
[09:08:11] <KimK> mk0: You can do this correction, but not with the screw comp file. You must change the kinematics file (or "...kins" file). For a milling machine, you're probably using the default "trivkins" (trivial kinematics) file, where XYZ are all at 90 degrees to each other. You'd have to adjust that. Stuart has done it, maybe there's something in the wiki or on his site. Do you know those sites?
[09:09:09] * KimK sees psha[work], it must be time for me to go...
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[09:11:25] <KimK> mk0 near Belarus, meet psha near Moscow. Have you guys met before?
[09:12:59] <mk0> nope!
[09:13:31] <mk0> oh, really he's grom moscow?
[09:13:33] <mk0> from
[09:13:44] <KimK> OK, psha must be working, he'll be back in a bit.
[09:15:00] <KimK> I'm in central US, so I'm up late and I must say goodnight. But we'll chat again.
[09:15:51] <mk0> bye!
[09:15:54] <mk0> thank you
[09:19:38] <KimK> mk0: Before I go, here are two links for you: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Kinematics and http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/ Try looking at cincikins.c ,maybe that's it, I don't know.
[09:20:00] <mk0> thanks again!
[09:20:15] <mk0> one by one i'll read it all
[09:20:38] <KimK> OK, good luck ,maybe see you here again. Goodnight.
[09:20:49] <mk0> goodnight
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[14:26:59] <JT-Work> what's the name of the aluminum used for fixtures and stuff extra flat
[14:29:24] <Tom_itx> ?
[14:29:28] <Tom_itx> plate
[14:32:16] <JT-Work> yea plate but it is flatter than normal 6061 stuff
[14:32:28] <JT-Work> I can't remember the name of it :/
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[14:33:13] <Tom_itx> 7075?
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[14:33:28] <Tom_itx> no aluminum is gonna be very flat once you fly cut it
[14:33:37] <JT-Work> no, it has a name
[14:33:43] <archivist> some is ground
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[14:33:55] <archivist> gauge plate
[14:34:58] <archivist> you lot may miss spell as gage plate :)
[14:35:06] <JT-Work> :)
[14:35:13] <Tom_itx> we always used plate from the scrap yard and machined it
[14:35:36] <archivist> my local scrap yar has some of the ground
[14:35:56] <Tom_itx> i doubt ours does anymore
[14:36:57] <archivist> just happens that a local user has regular offcuts going to my local
[14:37:31] <Tom_itx> i live in a plane mfg town. lotsa alum scrap
[14:45:50] <JT-Work> MIC-6
[14:45:55] <JT-Work> finally found it
[14:46:21] <Tom_itx> roof on?
[14:46:29] <JT-Work> tar paper only
[14:46:33] <Tom_itx> pfft
[14:46:40] <JT-Work> pick up shingles in the morning
[14:46:43] <Tom_itx> wtf you been doing while i was on vacation?
[14:48:07] <JT-Work> working my ass off
[14:48:35] <Tom_itx> i was getting nowhere doing that so i took off
[14:49:40] <JT-Work> sounds like a good plan
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[14:49:52] <TJB1> do either of you happen to be good with physics :)
[14:50:09] <Tom_itx> not so much
[14:50:35] <JT-Work> depends
[14:51:52] <TJB1> Ok converting 1g/cm^3 to g/mm^3
[14:52:10] <TJB1> Because cm is 10^-2 and mm is 10^-3 I get 10 which cubed is 1000
[14:52:23] <Tom_itx> i rely on the Machinery's handbook for alot of stuff
[14:52:37] <TJB1> I rely on the internet ;)
[14:52:46] <JT-Work> onlineconversion.com for me
[14:52:47] <TJB1> that handbook is a pita to find things
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[14:57:50] <Tom_itx> mmm, i was talking about atom before i left and someone here posted a case/psu iirc from newegg
[14:57:54] <Tom_itx> care to repost it?
[15:01:50] <JT-Work> I posted one the other day
[15:01:59] <JT-Work> I've used 4 of them so far
[15:02:29] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure i can use the picopsu with the D525
[15:03:04] <JT-Work> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[15:03:10] <JT-Work> comes with a power supply
[15:03:56] * JT-Work heads out for a bit
[15:04:07] <Tom_itx> with the extra 4pin plug?
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[15:15:37] <TJB1> do any of you use LabView in industry?
[15:30:28] <SWPadnos> barf
[15:30:42] <SWPadnos> errr, I meant not if I can help it
[15:31:02] <archivist> I looked at the price....as far as I ever went
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[15:31:51] <TJB1> I hate it
[15:32:00] <SWPadnos> I agree
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[15:49:42] <tom3p> where are up-to-date logs of emc & emc-devel?
[15:51:10] <pcw_home> psha.org.ru
[15:54:02] <tom3p> pcw_home, thx ( dont try to search, just click on the tiny 'emc' or 'emc-devel' to browse )
[15:54:13] <tom3p> and thx psha
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[16:02:28] <psha> tom3p: logger[psha] logger[mah]
[16:02:37] <psha> both respond to any message with link to current logs
[16:03:53] <psha> tom3p: btw search is working too :)
[16:04:01] <psha> on whole history up to ~2005
[16:04:32] <tom3p> psha yes works great, its a nice service for the emc community thx
[16:05:08] <tom3p> logger[psha]
[16:05:44] <tom3p> ah! the logger trick is cool too
[16:07:13] <psha> here are two bots for redundancy
[16:07:34] <psha> both are running from same codebase but on different hosts
[16:15:20] <tom3p> any probs using python3 in emc? is the glade-vcp branch version dependant? ( can i just symlink it )
[16:20:10] <psha> tom3p: probably not
[16:20:21] <psha> it depends on emchal.so
[16:20:32] <psha> which is python extension, not native library
[16:20:54] <psha> however i don't expect any difficulties in porting
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[16:26:13] <tom3p> thx ( i do see halmodule.d is littered with 2.6 deps )
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[16:43:18] <skunkworks> 3 for 3 answers to the rotated coordinate system!
[16:43:29] <skunkworks> it must be right ;)
[16:47:09] <tom3p> i wondered if he was asking if stored coord systems can contain XY (G17) rotations,
[16:47:18] <tom3p> (no)
[16:47:20] <skunkworks> did anyone catch this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgnxBaFFDi8
[16:49:16] <cradek> awesome
[16:50:15] <cradek> moving the indicator along the scale is a nice show
[16:50:39] <skunkworks> yes - they did a very nice job showing a working machine
[16:51:06] <cradek> when drawing the star thing, what is the motor in front doing?
[16:51:28] <tom3p> what is the motor laying on the table? it starts and stops during execution of the snowflake, but why?
[16:51:37] <tom3p> er yeh^^^
[16:51:48] <cradek> will that eventually be the filament feeder thing?
[16:52:04] <skunkworks> ah - that could be - reprap
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[16:53:08] <cradek> that is a very nice demo. makes me want to make one.
[16:54:27] <skunkworks> I think you have a access to a nice machine shop to do it... :)_
[16:54:34] <pcw_home> That would be nice with linear motors on the slides (except dropping when power is off)
[16:55:04] <cradek> skunkworks: yeah, it's no more complex than the gantry homing test rig I made recently
[16:55:14] <skunkworks> :)
[16:55:20] <tom3p> ucberkely maybe they'd like you guys to lecture/ provide a left coast fest
[16:56:52] <tom3p> "A axis for extruder of RepRap application"
[16:57:50] <tom3p> he did a hexapod too http://www.youtube.com/user/hg5bsd#p/a/u/2/LJYhz5aTMnA
[16:57:54] <pcw_home> Yes you can see in the snowflake that it tracks velocity
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[17:06:53] <JT-Work> skunkworks: how big of a plate can your K&T handle?
[17:10:52] <skunkworks> ? the work area is X38,Y36,Z24
[17:11:07] <skunkworks> we have moved bigger things around...
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[17:13:43] <JT-Work> I have a 36 x 36 x 3/4 square aluminum plate that needs to be round
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[17:13:58] <JT-Work> 30" round
[17:14:02] <skunkworks> bandsaw? :)
[17:14:28] <skunkworks> 1/4 thick?
[17:14:28] <JT-Work> this is for a dial ( sits on top of a camco indexer)
[17:14:36] <cradek> 3/4" roughing mill, one pass
[17:14:39] <JT-Work> 3/4 thick
[17:15:10] <JT-Work> it could be roughed out with a bandsaw
[17:15:13] <skunkworks> wow - I ack like I didn't 'hear' what you typed
[17:15:38] <skunkworks> That could be bolted to the fixture we had and machined...
[17:16:13] <skunkworks> we have a large bandsaw to rough it out also.
[17:16:13] <JT-Work> it gets a center hole with 6 bolts around the center hole to bolt to the camco
[17:16:31] <JT-Work> want to see the print?
[17:16:35] <skunkworks> sure
[17:16:44] <JT-Work> dxf ok
[17:16:47] <skunkworks> samco at gmail dot com
[17:16:48] <skunkworks> yes
[17:16:50] <JT-Work> ok
[17:17:00] <skunkworks> sorry samcoinc at gmail dot com
[17:18:20] <JT-Work> good thing I type slow :)
[17:18:27] <skunkworks> heh
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[17:18:50] <JT-Work> the plate is MIC-6
[17:19:22] <Tom_L> does that cost alot more than regular plate?
[17:19:44] <Tom_L> what is this for?
[17:20:14] <Tom_L> dial on an indexer doesn't tell me alot
[17:20:53] <JT-Work> the machine will grind the compression release tab on a camshaft automagicly
[17:21:10] <Tom_L> ahh
[17:21:13] <JT-Work> as well as other things like gauging and pick an place
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[17:47:30] <JT-Work> what motherboard would be good for a winblows 7 64 workstation using SolidWorks and the like now a days?
[17:47:40] <JT-Work> my current one sucks
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[18:01:02] <pcw_home> I'm not up on the latest CPUs but those 6 core AMDs looked pretty good for a while price/performance wise
[18:01:25] <psha> JT-Work: i've heared that last intel CPU's are nice
[18:01:34] <psha> but previous generation AMD are just enought and cheap
[18:02:50] <JT-Work> hi psha
[18:02:54] <psha> hi
[18:02:54] <the_wench> hello psha, you have a question?
[18:02:58] <cradek> haha
[18:03:07] <JT-Work> the wench caught you
[18:03:09] <psha> JT-Work: :)
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[18:04:09] <JT-Work> is that the Core i7 cpu?
[18:04:30] <TJB1> I have an i7 :)
[18:05:47] <JT-Work> wow maximum memory supported 24gb
[18:06:53] <psha> JT-Work: find mobo with enought mem slots and it'll support it :)
[18:07:14] <JT-Work> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131614
[18:07:38] <psha> not cheap..
[18:07:53] <psha> it's near cost of comp with AMD cpu :)
[18:08:02] <JT-Work> I'm not looking for cheap :) looking for good
[18:08:03] <skunkworks> don't you need a $500+ video card also?
[18:08:07] <JT-Work> yea
[18:08:22] <JT-Work> i have a nvidia quadro fx1800
[18:08:25] <pcw_home> Just make sue you use SATA6 not SATA3 (If it has the intel chipset bug)
[18:08:35] <pcw_home> s/sue/sure/
[18:08:52] <psha> wow, sata6 will be available to ordinary customers only in ~2015 :)
[18:09:01] <JT-Work> skunkworks: thanks for looking at the part :) you were the first person I thought of for that big
[18:09:41] <JT-Work> so you have to have a SATA6 hard drive?
[18:09:50] <skunkworks> no problem. :)
[18:11:27] <skunkworks> I have an I7 on my laptop - but I have not tried solid works on it... I like i thought
[18:11:29] <skunkworks> though
[18:12:11] <pcw_home> SATA3 maybe ok because that is a 5 series chipset, not 6 series (but google intel sata bug)
[18:13:06] <SWPadnos> I thought the problem only occurred when you plugged into the SATA 3Gb/s ports vs. the SATA 6Gb/s ports - it doesn't depend on the type of drive attached
[18:13:10] <skunkworks> wow - sata bug. epp bug on the atom... wth intel?
[18:13:12] <skunkworks> ;)
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[18:14:08] <SWPadnos> the Phenom II x6 chips are fast
[18:14:17] <SWPadnos> and inexpensive ($200 - $300)
[18:14:32] <skunkworks> I have used the quad core phenoms and they are quite nice
[18:14:52] <SWPadnos> I have a 1090T based system here, and it's definitely a screamer
[18:14:53] <JT-Work> I think that is what I have at home in the shop
[18:14:56] <SWPadnos> plus the CPU is fast ;)
[18:15:03] <skunkworks> (109 for an asus motherboard and a 2.3(?)ghz proccessor)
[18:15:09] <JT-Work> 1090T?
[18:15:20] <SWPadnos> 6-core AMD Phenom II
[18:15:39] <psha> is solidworks multicore aware?
[18:15:48] <SWPadnos> oh wait, they top out at $240 now (sheesh)
[18:15:52] <SWPadnos> psha, no, not really
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[18:16:11] <psha> then Phenom II x2 would be enought
[18:16:14] <SWPadnos> I think it will use 1 core for GUI management and another for other stuff
[18:16:43] <SWPadnos> well, that assumes that you only want to run SolidWorks at any given time. ie, no OS or anything
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[18:18:47] <psha> at least then x4 ;)
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[18:19:19] <danimal_garage> mornin
[18:19:25] <JT-Work> hi Dan
[18:19:37] <danimal_garage> hows it going John
[18:20:02] <JT-Work> not bad, looking to upgrade my work computer at this shop
[18:20:41] <pcw_home> Yes, I guess the two SATA III ports are OK
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[18:21:14] <danimal_garage> ha, my shop computer just died
[18:21:44] <danimal_garage> it freezes at the windows xp screen with the blue bar that goes back and forth
[18:22:02] <psha> bbl
[18:22:02] <danimal_garage> what are you looking at?
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[18:22:07] * JT-Work hands Dan my .44 magnum
[18:22:19] <JT-Work> blindly looking at the moment
[18:22:44] <danimal_garage> pcw_home, cradek said the new PID pin is not in 2.4.x
[18:22:45] <SWPadnos> JT-Work, what's your budget?
[18:22:53] <SWPadnos> and does it include a monitor?
[18:23:26] <danimal_garage> JT-Work, i just fired up my laptop for now, i'll probably try and see if windows 7 will install on a different drive
[18:23:27] <JT-Work> $1000 and I have two huge monitors now
[18:23:45] <SWPadnos> Oh, in that case you're golden. wait one ... :)
[18:23:51] <JT-Work> ok
[18:24:43] <SWPadnos> oh, what about keyboard, mouse, CD/DVD ...
[18:24:48] <SWPadnos> re-using some or getting new
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[18:25:17] <JT-Work> I'm just upgrading my current one so all hardware still works
[18:25:33] <JT-Work> just need motherboard/cpu and memory
[18:25:38] <SWPadnos> so motherboard / CPU / RAM / Hard drive(s)
[18:25:52] <SWPadnos> oh, no HD. well, I'll throw one in anyway :)
[18:26:04] <SWPadnos> Windows or Linux?
[18:26:50] <SWPadnos> MB/CPU/MEM is $600-ish, for about the fastest you can reasonably buy, 16GB/6core/890FX chipset
[18:26:56] <Connor> Anyone know if a USB Monitor would cause issues with EMC and the Real Time modules ? I KNow it's sensitive to video drivers
[18:27:12] <SWPadnos> (has SATA3, USB3, IEEE1394 (FireWire), etc)
[18:27:20] <SWPadnos> Connor, what is a USB monitor?
[18:27:21] <JT-Work> windows 7 64
[18:27:32] <SWPadnos> are you talking about a USB video adapter?
[18:27:44] <JT-Work> SWPadnos: sounds good to me
[18:28:04] <Connor> http://www.doublesight.com/product/?cid=10
[18:28:05] <SWPadnos> JT-Work, ok, not an issue. you'll probably want the 16GB RAM then :) (8GB is ~$100, 16GB is ~$240)
[18:28:35] <JT-Work> yea 16GB is better
[18:30:06] <SWPadnos> Connor, the first thing to check is whether there's a Linux driver for those monitors. I don't see anything from some simple searching
[18:30:44] <SWPadnos> JT-Work, what's the current hard drive?
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[18:32:51] <JT-Work> I think it is a SATA
[18:33:02] <SWPadnos> 1TB or that range?
[18:33:23] <psha> SWPadnos: there were something for linux
[18:33:23] <IchGuckLive> how neds that amount of Hdd
[18:33:32] <IchGuckLive> i work with 10GB
[18:33:38] <SWPadnos> IchGuckLive, Windows ;)
[18:34:00] <IchGuckLive> oh forgot the Microschrott users
[18:34:24] <SWPadnos> SolidWorks creates somewhat large files (or directories of files anyway), and of course there are the odd images or videos one might want to deal with from time to time
[18:34:43] <JT-Work> one is 500GB one is 640GB
[18:34:51] <JT-Work> I use one for backups
[18:35:19] <JT-Work> but a new 1TB drive would be nice
[18:35:23] <IchGuckLive> i sell about 250PC per Year and order here https://www.csl-computer.com/shop/index.php
[18:35:25] <SWPadnos> ok. a new 1TB Sata 6Gb drive is $80-ish, so it's not that big a deal
[18:35:40] <JT-Work> yea and faster
[18:35:56] <SWPadnos> probably
[18:36:06] <SWPadnos> the SSD is what really makes it scream :)
[18:37:26] <psha> Connor: http://www.displaylink.com/shop/index.php?product=3
[18:37:40] <psha> DS-90U is mentioned as DisplayLink monitor
[18:37:49] <psha> so it'll probably _work_ with linux
[18:37:59] <psha> but no guarantees that it'll work good
[18:38:09] <psha> i guess other (DS-70) are same
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[18:43:53] <SWPadnos> JT-Work, see if this link works for you: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=15657012
[18:44:28] <JT-Work> SWPadnos: thanks it works
[18:44:35] <SWPadnos> cool
[18:44:37] <SWPadnos> enjoy :)
[18:44:45] <SWPadnos> (note that I didn't include a video card)
[18:45:16] <psha> SWPadnos: there is one on MB, is not it?
[18:45:29] <psha> ah, it's missing
[18:45:38] <psha> why not to pick one with built-in video?
[18:46:04] <SWPadnos> items to remove/chage, in order, are: BluRay/DVD drive ($60), hard drive ($100), downgrade memory to 8GB (~$140), downgrade CPU to 1090T ($40)
[18:46:50] <JT-Work> yea, I have a video card
[18:46:51] <SWPadnos> psha, two reasons: 1, it's a CAD station running Windows 7, so onboard video won't be fast enough and 2, because the chipsets with built in video are lower performing than the ones without
[18:47:47] <JT-Work> sw what do you load on the SSD?
[18:48:08] <psha> SWPadnos: thx, i thought that CAD is not THAT video intensive
[18:48:10] <SWPadnos> SSD becomes drive C, 2TB drive is drive D, which you use for data
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[18:48:19] <SWPadnos> psha, 3D solid modeling is
[18:48:49] <SWPadnos> and SolidWorks has their own certification process for drivers - there aren't a lot of cards that are certified
[18:48:58] <JT-Work> so you load win7 on the SSD?
[18:49:13] <SWPadnos> yes, that's what gives you the <10 second boot time
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[18:49:34] <SWPadnos> put only the SSD in the system while installing
[18:49:42] <JT-Work> cool
[18:49:47] <IchGuckLive> SWPadnos: the new 017.1 Heekscad is out it is lots better now
[18:49:51] <SWPadnos> all applications go on the SSD (C:), turn off swap, or put it on drive D once you install the 2TB drive
[18:50:03] <JT-Work> only thing I don't need is the blu-ray drive
[18:50:06] <SWPadnos> use drive D for files
[18:50:18] <SWPadnos> that's also a DVD-RW drive, it just happens to read Blu-Rays also :)
[18:50:20] <IchGuckLive> doesent compare to solidworks or Proengenerer but for ourer need its very good
[18:50:21] <JT-Work> ok, that makes sense
[18:50:47] <JT-Work> I have a DVD Lightscribe SATA drive now
[18:51:01] <SWPadnos> that's why it was #1 for deletion ;)
[18:51:10] <JT-Work> :)
[18:51:34] <SWPadnos> your existing hard drives are probably fine too, since the SSD will be the one most used for the system files
[18:52:21] <SWPadnos> in fact, using two or more spinning disks may be beneficial - I don't know if SolidWorks has its own "scratch file" settings (like Photoshop does), if so, putting that on a separate drive from the Windows swapfile is a good thing
[18:52:31] <JT-Work> I deleted the 2TB drive and it is $800
[18:52:33] <SWPadnos> but those gains are incremental
[18:52:53] <SWPadnos> yep. like I said, you're in good shape
[18:52:59] <JT-Work> thanks
[18:53:07] <SWPadnos> you may want to look at a power supply. I have had excellent luck with OCZ and Corsair
[18:53:23] <SWPadnos> (OCZ bought PC Power & Cooling)
[18:53:49] <JT-Work> I have a fairly large Antec power supply as I recall
[18:53:50] <SWPadnos> OK, gotta run
[18:53:52] <psha> SWPadnos: wtf is swapfile with 16gb ram
[18:53:53] <SWPadnos> see you later
[18:54:01] <SWPadnos> psha, Windows and SolidWorks ...
[18:54:31] <psha> yea, i know that windows is garbage but is not solidworks limited to available memory?
[18:55:18] <JT-Work> ok
[18:56:49] <JT-Work> SWEET it has a FDD connector
[19:00:50] <danimal_garage> great, now my monitor's colors are all funky
[19:00:55] <danimal_garage> i just cant win today
[19:01:17] <psha> %#1! windows xp refuses to install net framework ...
[19:01:35] <psha> wow, vitualbox 4 works better then 3
[19:01:41] <psha> it's finaly installed
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[19:12:47] * JT-Work hands Dan some tannerite and an AR-15
[19:14:38] <mrsunshine> wellt his will be a major upgrade for the mill, timing pulleys and belts incomming, new motor with new bearings, totaly new vfd ...
[19:14:40] <mrsunshine> =)
[19:15:48] <danimal_garage> i actually fixed it
[19:16:18] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I'll take two please
[19:16:19] <danimal_garage> i had to do an auto contrast adjustment for some reason
[19:16:48] <JT-Work> Jymmm: what color?
[19:17:27] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Uh, AR-15's come in colors now? Other than camo and black I mean
[19:17:42] <JT-Work> sure you can get a pink one
[19:17:56] <Jymmm> Black will be fine
[19:20:08] <danimal_garage> i think he secretly wants a pink one
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[19:24:28] <JT-Work> LOL
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[19:40:07] <ej> hi!
[19:40:38] <skunkworks> hello!
[19:40:59] <ej> who I should net know of the feature of pluto-servo, that it's outputs goes to 0V for some 20us randomly?
[19:41:26] <ej> I've had some tough times trying to figure out the erratic nature of my project due to this (although there might be some other issues as well)
[19:42:08] <ej> I scoped 6 outputs (0, 1, 4-7). if this issue is also present in the PWM output signals, I don't know
[19:42:16] <ej> very hard to scope that
[19:44:00] <cradek> is it on a parallel cable? the pluto is notoriously flaky and most problems can be traced to errors in communication
[19:45:21] <ej> yes it is on a parallel cable. I've modified the pluto bu adding a pull-up resistor to the nwait signal and changing the base resistor that pulls the line down
[19:45:26] <ej> by adding
[19:45:47] <ej> my pc crashes if it can't communicate with pluto, so I don't suspect that at the moment :)
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[19:49:08] <cradek> huh, can't stay connected today
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[19:51:55] <ej> there's also a repeating low-pulse in the PWM signal just before the voltage goes low. The amplitude changes but it's location is always the same. thus the PWM outpu pins (UPx) need filtering also
[19:52:30] <cradek> can you take a photo of what you see on your scope and ask the devel list?
[19:52:43] <cradek> I'm not sure what you're describing
[19:52:57] <cradek> do you think there's a driver or firmware bug?
[19:53:09] <ej> I suspect it's either
[19:53:32] <skunkworks> could you hook it directly into the printer port - no cable and try it?
[19:53:48] <ej> I could actually
[19:54:47] <ej> I now have a snap-on BOB, but I tried also one that had pluto directly connected to the pc and I had the same kind of problems then. didn't know what to check then though, so I can't be 100% certain
[19:57:03] <KimK> How about parallel port in wrong mode (std, epp, ecp, etc) ?
[19:57:13] <cradek> it must be epp if it's working at all
[19:57:20] <ej> that I've checked
[19:57:35] <ej> besides, the pluto works most of the time so nicely, and then I get this very random stuff
[19:57:41] <KimK> OK, you're the pluto expert
[19:57:58] <ej> I suspect it wouldn't work at all or a lot worse in wrong parallel port mode
[19:58:25] <cradek> I nominate anyone else as the pluto expert
[19:58:48] <ej> basically the random 0V is not a problem (if it doesn't affect the PWM). other IO are rather slow sow 100H low-pass should fix it
[19:58:55] <KimK> How about the cable? Too long? Wrong kind?
[19:59:12] <ej> if it would be wrong kind, I suspect it wouldn't work at all
[19:59:39] <KimK> wrong kind as far as "high-speed approved", I mean
[19:59:42] <ej> I have to try the setup without the cable though to be sure
[20:01:26] <JT-Work> party at my house tomorrow BYOH
[20:04:04] <ej> thanks for the ideas. I'll test the machine (with luck tomorrow) without the cable, then I check if there's anomalies in the PWM. also, whatever I find, I'll take pictures and email them to the developers.
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[20:15:47] <kb8wmc> be back in a few time for soup
[20:19:39] <mrsunshine> hmm, how the heck do you control a vfd from emc?
[20:19:47] <mrsunshine> the start/stop etc is quite easy, but rpm ?
[20:20:16] <archivist> use pwm to get a 0-10v to drive the speed input
[20:20:17] <cradek> generally they take an analog 0-5 or 1-10v input for speed
[20:20:41] <cradek> some, like the gs2, can use modbus, and we have a component for that
[20:21:39] <danimal_garage> yea, your vfd has to be able to accept a pwm signal in order to use it directly
[20:21:42] <mrsunshine> ahh so its posible to generate a pwm from emc then for spindle control ?
[20:22:09] <danimal_garage> yes if your vfd supports it (mine doesnt)
[20:22:22] <danimal_garage> i didnt know about the modbus, that's interesting
[20:22:51] <mrsunshine> danimal_garage, if my vfd supports it? ... havent seen anything about pwm, but the 0 - 10V is there :P
[20:23:00] <skunkworks> there are cards that take pwm and crate 0-10v also.
[20:23:05] <danimal_garage> there's a difference
[20:23:22] <skunkworks> create
[20:23:30] <danimal_garage> yea, from what i saw, it isnt hard to make one
[20:23:42] <danimal_garage> but i just got a 7i33 instead
[20:23:46] <skunkworks> heh
[20:23:54] <skunkworks> same here
[20:24:34] <danimal_garage> cradek, is that modbus thing new for emc?
[20:26:26] <danimal_garage> skunkworks, i ment to ask you, what's the light switch for in your enclosure?
[20:26:42] <danimal_garage> and that one lonesome servo drive?
[20:26:48] <cradek> danimal_garage: no, gs2_vfd component has been there for a while
[20:27:00] <danimal_garage> huh cool
[20:27:10] <skunkworks> it is what powers the computer. For testing we didn't want to power up all the transformers and stuf - so the computer is run on a separate circuit.
[20:27:40] <danimal_garage> i *think* my vfd can use modbus. I know my old one could.
[20:27:50] <danimal_garage> ah
[20:29:19] <danimal_garage> i have an ssr that turns on the ac power for everything else
[20:29:52] <danimal_garage> so it doesnt turn on unless i f2 in emc
[20:30:29] <danimal_garage> but that's only for the toolchanger and vfd's, not much else runs on ac
[20:31:10] <mrsunshine> what about just a DAC?
[20:31:11] <Connor> psha: Yea.. they're DisplayLink monitors.. the question was would displaylink cause issues with the RealTime stuff like some other video drivers do...
[20:31:15] <cradek> I bet that component is pretty specific for the gs2
[20:31:20] <mrsunshine> Serial to Parallel shift reg -> DAC -> 0 - 10V? :P
[20:36:23] <mrsunshine> looks like it might support modbus also
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[20:40:52] <mrsunshine> gah looks complicated
[20:41:05] <mrsunshine> alost more complicated then using a shiftreg and a dac :P
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[21:08:29] <psha> Connor: heh, nobody knows :)
[21:08:35] <psha> try it and add to wiki ;)
[21:08:52] <psha> but display link driver is open and this is promising
[21:09:20] <Connor> What do I need to look for as far as it not working right with the RT stuff ? What happens with a video driver that's not supported?
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[21:11:47] <psha> nothing :( if it's working bad there is no simple way to fix it
[21:12:05] <psha> unless you are video driver dev :)
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[23:31:51] <danimal_garage> hi
[23:31:51] <the_wench> hello danimal_garage, you have a question?
[23:32:58] <danimal_garage> i do, actually. Who thought a bot was a good idea?
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