#emc | Logs for 2011-02-10

[00:01:00] <skunkworks> emcrules_mobile: did you get your motherboard figured out?
[00:01:30] <bill20r3> you can get little USB temp/humidity dongles. If you're using a PC already, may as well use a PC...
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[00:03:11] <emcrules_mobile> skunkworks: I bought a new ram stick to try out tonight. I know the psu is ok so that's the only thing left.
[00:03:39] <emcrules_mobile> besides a dead mobo
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[00:11:56] <elmo40> bill20r3: found one. $42. http://www.thermoworks.com/products/logger/usb_loggers.html
[00:12:20] <elmo40> says windows, though.
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[01:54:28] <Emcrules_Laptop> D510mo is alive!!! Now if i can only get it to boot from usb that would be even better!!
[01:57:48] <Jymmm> 24p ps?
[01:59:45] <Emcrules_Laptop> 20ps works fine memory was crap
[02:00:59] <Emcrules_Laptop> made a startup usb disk via live cd but it wont boot off of it
[02:05:39] <elmo40> won't boot to disc? odd
[02:06:23] <Emcrules_Laptop> no it will try but i get a boot error message on the screen
[02:07:04] <elmo40> sata or ide?
[02:07:13] <elmo40> I have a sata2 boot issue
[02:07:27] <elmo40> I can only use an ide cd to boot from. very lame
[02:08:13] <MattyMatt> elmo40, here's a cheap temp+humidity module http://www.nuelectronics.com/estore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=28
[02:08:43] <Emcrules_Laptop> sata but im trying to boot from usb stick!!
[02:08:50] <MattyMatt> that'd need their datalogger board (Β£11) and an arduino to become a complete USB one
[02:09:22] <elmo40> Sold Out, lol
[02:10:34] <MattyMatt> duh, that happens with them :) sorry I didn't notice. they'll probably restock. they did with their (too) cheap prototype shield kitss
[02:11:42] <elmo40> I wonder if I could connect a thermistor to this and send the info to the computer (since the computer is indoors and the greenhouse is, well, outdoors :P http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9977
[02:13:45] <atmega> have you seen the zigbee stuff?
[02:13:54] <MattyMatt> looks good. somebody put one of those on their reprap and it required no software changes. both ends carried on using com port emulation
[02:15:07] <MattyMatt> that was the older kind of arduino without USB built in
[02:16:31] <MattyMatt> or rather it was the old reprap mobo which used a plain AVR chip, and usually required a usb to ttl-rs232 cable
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[02:18:52] <atmega> unless you are developing, or doing serial comms, the onboard ftdi usb is kind of an expensive waste
[02:19:41] <MattyMatt> not that expensive, when you can get a mega1280 board from china for $30 inc shipping
[02:20:35] <MattyMatt> but yeah, you could make one yourself with a bare chip and that bluetooth module
[02:21:02] <atmega> I have a bunch of RBBB's from modern device, like $11/each but you have to have an ftdi cable
[02:21:20] <MattyMatt> RBBB?
[02:21:34] <atmega> http://shop.moderndevice.com/products/rbbb-kit
[02:21:36] <atmega> $13 now
[02:22:46] <MattyMatt> even that looks overkill, if you have 5V available already. a 328 chip is $3
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[02:23:14] <L84Supper> there are a few ~$100 ARM tablets with SDIO sockets, FPGA with SDIO + some motor drivers and reprap has a complete controller and UI
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[02:24:05] <L84Supper> the XO-1.75 has SDIO as well
[02:24:16] <atmega> it's a nicely done board though. I like having the arduino bootloader, but after you finish the code, it's not really needed
[02:24:19] <MattyMatt> L84Supper: yeah I'm in favour of fpga, but most consider it overkill
[02:24:49] <L84Supper> MattyMatt: is there a motor controller with a SDIO interface?
[02:25:24] <MattyMatt> not that I know. the plan is to have an arm on the board too, or implement a cpu for the gcode interpreter
[02:25:38] <MattyMatt> implement cpu in part of the fpga
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[02:26:11] <L84Supper> MattyMatt: using an ARM tablet eliminates the need for the host UI PC
[02:26:30] <L84Supper> so it can stand alone
[02:26:44] <MattyMatt> yep that's the idea I'm evangelising, a cradle on the front panel for an android
[02:27:19] <MattyMatt> gcode on SD is the prefered way of doing that atm
[02:28:00] <MattyMatt> you still need a PC somewhere to generate that gcode tho, as it is customised for each printer's quirks
[02:28:30] <L84Supper> the ARM tablet would replace the PC and be able to generate the Gcode
[02:28:36] <MattyMatt> yep
[02:29:53] <MattyMatt> the cheap androids on DX have a breakout dongle for the USBs, that'd be the cradle connector in my first idea. therre are alternative <$100 tablets now tho
[02:30:14] <L84Supper> the SDIO irq latency is about 4uS due to the time it takes to clear the bits serialized on the bus
[02:30:36] <L84Supper> SDIO is fast enough to run EMC
[02:31:09] <MattyMatt> yeah this is why I'd alway want the motor controller to be lower level than any serial protocol
[02:31:42] <MattyMatt> repraps are hitting the limits of stepping rates an AVR can handle
[02:32:31] <L84Supper> how short are their steps now?
[02:32:44] <MattyMatt> I'm in favour of moving straight to mini-itx and using emc2 already :)
[02:33:08] <L84Supper> they will scream at the high cost :)
[02:33:24] <MattyMatt> full steps are about 0.1mm and 1/16 steps are usual
[02:33:45] <L84Supper> sorry, I meant in time vs distance
[02:34:08] <MattyMatt> reprap electronics are so fragmented now, nobody cares what the official one is. it's nice having a choice
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[02:34:34] <MattyMatt> 50mm/s so 3000mm/min is common
[02:35:03] <MattyMatt> so 120ipm
[02:35:34] <MattyMatt> and someone has demoed a machine that goes 3x that speed
[02:35:56] <MattyMatt> and when I'm rich, I'm putting 5 phase steppers on mine
[02:36:07] <MattyMatt> it all demands higher stepping rates
[02:36:27] <L84Supper> I'm steering clear of any of the hot melt plastic deposition methods for now. It's just too slow.
[02:37:11] <elmo40> MattyMatt: when you get rich by servos :P
[02:37:26] <MattyMatt> my principle objection was the quality, but they are dimensionally pretty good now, and the surface finish is improving
[02:37:39] <L84Supper> inkjet delivers 0.5L/hr with just one printhead at 600dpi
[02:38:07] <MattyMatt> yeah powder printers are better
[02:39:08] <MattyMatt> fused plastic does give good usuable parts tho, nice and cheap and not much finishing required
[02:39:39] <L84Supper> I'm going to try working on some foamed ceramics that can be dispensed with valves pretty rapidly
[02:39:48] <MattyMatt> and the speeds and quality are definitely improving in the year I've been following reprap
[02:40:34] <MattyMatt> and reliability. print speed doesn't matter so much if you can leave it unattended
[02:40:36] <L84Supper> PVA + sodium silicate looks good as well
[02:41:57] <MattyMatt> elmo40, servos are a potential way to make repraps cheaper :)
[02:42:18] <MattyMatt> it just needs a cheap reliable encoder
[02:43:20] <L84Supper> we're going to get RTAI into Linaro and in turn kernel.org plus support EMC in ArchMobile, so we'll see where this all goes
[02:43:43] <MattyMatt> these look reliable as there's no metal chips to worry about =, $50 aint cheap tho http://wiki.makerbot.com/mle
[02:45:33] <elmo40> make the encoder ;) http://yo6pir.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/rotary-encoder.pdf
[02:46:11] <MattyMatt> if you can find those mice :) I have a couple but they're getting scarce
[02:46:41] <elmo40> I know
[02:47:12] <MattyMatt> I can't find the dual opto thingies, so to make one now you'd have to use 2 singles and adjust them to get good quadrature
[02:47:18] <L84Supper> China is your friend for mouse parts
[02:47:27] <elmo40> you could use the wheel and LED from a printer... such as this setup: http://frontrangerobotics.org/Jan05/EncoderForRML.jpg
[02:48:11] <MattyMatt> yeah one could be hacked, but for the reprap project it needs to be readily available on all continents
[02:48:50] <MattyMatt> it just needs one hacked one to develop the firmware tho, which would let other people hack their own
[02:49:27] <elmo40> printers are everywhere :P rip them open. most HP's have them.
[02:49:43] <MattyMatt> new steppers are getting cheaper, which is eroding the potential benefits of DC axes
[02:49:58] <elmo40> and to get direction you add a second LED
[02:50:38] <MattyMatt> I want to make linear steppers :)
[02:51:47] <MattyMatt> they are the future for fast printers
[02:52:21] <MattyMatt> and every other machine possibly, dunno what the torque is like on them
[02:54:51] <MattyMatt> not yet tho. I got a mini-lathe yesterday. I'm making round things now :)
[02:56:06] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=190497466294
[02:56:10] <elmo40> lathes are so useful!
[02:57:42] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Small-Lathe-/190497466294
[02:58:09] <MattyMatt> this'll be more useful when I've fixed the leadnut :p
[02:59:16] <MattyMatt> I'm tempted to rip out the leadscrew too, and use an M8 for now until I get a ballscrew
[02:59:56] <elmo40> that is a TINY lathe!
[02:59:57] <elmo40> :P
[03:00:03] <MattyMatt> that'll save buying a lefthanded tap
[03:00:08] <elmo40> did you replace the lead screw?
[03:00:13] <MattyMatt> yeah it's smaller than I expected :)
[03:00:37] <MattyMatt> not yet. that one on it is ~3/8" and 16tpi
[03:00:39] <elmo40> ya, ballscrew would be sweet. even for manual controlling!
[03:01:03] <MattyMatt> I've heard ballscrews aren't so good for manual
[03:01:22] <MattyMatt> but I want to CNC it asap
[03:01:40] <elmo40> depends on the pitch, I guess
[03:01:44] <MattyMatt> why turn handles when your computer can do it? :)
[03:01:46] <elmo40> they are usually faster.
[03:02:02] <MattyMatt> usually MUCH faster on a ballscrew :)
[03:02:03] <elmo40> less turns/rev, so they need more power.
[03:02:39] <elmo40> the 16-pitch on your tiny lathe would prob be 8-pitch on a ballscrew of that small diameter.
[03:02:56] <elmo40> half the revs means less accurate for hands ;) but motors can handle that.
[03:03:18] <MattyMatt> the 16tpi I have is single start, and at that size it's hard to tell if it's trapezoidal. apart from being left-handed it might as well be metric studding already
[03:06:18] <MattyMatt> the saddle is really tight, which is obviously why the nut stripped. I'll have to see if I can loosen the gibs without making it sloppy
[03:07:56] <MattyMatt> a nema23 wouldn't move it atm, without high gearing, even with the 16tpi leadscrew
[03:08:51] <elmo40> that is tight
[03:09:47] <MattyMatt> 20.32 tpi when I replace it with m8 :)
[03:13:05] <elmo40> that is fine
[03:13:21] <elmo40> but a 3/8 is equivalent to m10
[03:13:32] <elmo40> why go smaller? is that what you have in the house? ;)
[03:13:46] <MattyMatt> but I have m8 studding , and a tap to make the nut :)
[03:14:18] <MattyMatt> I haven't measured the diameter. it could be 5/16
[03:14:35] <MattyMatt> it's imperial tho, I think
[03:14:41] <elmo40> lol
[03:14:43] <MattyMatt> 1960s I'd guess
[03:14:46] <elmo40> better find out before you tap it
[03:15:12] <MattyMatt> I've measured the pitch, that's 1/16" for sure
[03:16:18] <MattyMatt> but that's irrelevant, I won't be buying taps specially
[03:16:42] <MattyMatt> the crossslide is full of backlash too. I'll probably metricate that too
[03:17:11] <MattyMatt> nema17 for that I think :)
[03:17:30] <MattyMatt> now I just need a Z
[03:18:19] <MattyMatt> and some sort of spindle encoder
[03:19:39] <MattyMatt> I guess I only need an index pulse, but I'd like fine rotational control if I can
[03:20:12] <elmo40> I suggest a printer ;)
[03:20:39] <MattyMatt> I was thinking the hall sensor out of a 3.5" floppy motor :)
[03:21:25] <MattyMatt> put it inside the steel headstock so it's shielded from the steppers
[03:22:02] <MattyMatt> and so it won't get chips stuck on the magnet
[03:24:28] <MattyMatt> if I had money to burn, I'd try putting a 5ph stepper on the spindle. if that can do 3000rpm that'd do me
[03:25:16] <Emcrules_Laptop> Happy as a pig in S#$& the CPU is up and running!!!
[03:25:21] <MattyMatt> I only have 2 speeds atm
[03:25:24] <elmo40> enjoy :)
[03:25:32] <elmo40> Emcrules_Laptop: nice
[03:26:25] <MattyMatt> I've got a T30 with a loose gpu if you like fixing lappys :)
[03:26:51] <Emcrules_Laptop> thinkpad?
[03:26:56] <MattyMatt> yep
[03:27:21] <MattyMatt> I've gonna try the hot penny trick.
[03:28:06] <MattyMatt> it works on external vga so it's not a serious problem, but the internal screen is no-go
[03:28:31] <Emcrules_Laptop> Whats the hot penny trick?
[03:29:00] <MattyMatt> put a penny on top of the loose BGA chip, and use a blowtorch
[03:29:14] <Emcrules_Laptop> nice!!
[03:29:51] <MattyMatt> it's either that, or invest in proper BGA repair stuff
[03:30:12] <MattyMatt> which sounds hellishly complicated even once you've paid for it
[03:30:21] <Emcrules_Laptop> To small for me to work with
[03:30:39] <Emcrules_Laptop> I like big hamers lol
[03:30:39] <MattyMatt> and me. I'm human too :)
[03:30:57] <MattyMatt> what did you need to do to your d510?
[03:30:57] <elmo40> MattyMatt: here, make your own linear 'stepper' http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q2cmDAEM3Lg
[03:31:33] <MattyMatt> yep :) just like that
[03:31:35] <elmo40> if you make the coils small enough then the increments will be useful for a printer
[03:31:42] <elmo40> until then, fat coils means large jumps
[03:32:12] <MattyMatt> unless you make combs on the pole pieces, just like a rotary stepper
[03:32:15] <elmo40> I would like to know all his steps... I wanna make one!
[03:32:26] <Emcrules_Laptop> Made the usb start up disk with pendrive installer instead of using the lice cd to make one
[03:32:51] <MattyMatt> ah d510 is a mini-itx? I assumed it was a dell lappy
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[03:35:46] <Emcrules_Laptop> Yes but all is good now
[03:35:59] <Emcrules_Laptop> using a SSD on it as well
[03:36:34] <elmo40> Wow, check this one out. Very accurate! http://www.youtube.com/embed/VG2FabT8bGM
[03:38:25] <Emcrules_Laptop> Ok thats cool. Im using a inear motor on a assembly machine we are building just for that cool factor!!!
[03:46:20] <Emcrules_Laptop> Playing with one of those cui encoders. Pretty cool I can program the encoder right from the demo board they supplied
[03:49:46] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://imagebin.org/137077
[03:52:27] <Tom_itx> those are fairly inexpensive aren't they?
[03:56:15] <Emcrules_Laptop> ya about 40$
[03:56:52] <Tom_itx> i see $23 on digikey unless i'm lookin at the wrong wone
[03:56:54] <Tom_itx> one
[03:57:06] <Emcrules_Laptop> AMT303-v
[03:57:29] <Tom_itx> AMT103-V KIT
[03:57:35] <Tom_itx> wonder what that is
[03:57:58] <Emcrules_Laptop> no commutation outputs
[03:58:09] <Tom_itx> why would i need that?
[03:58:25] <Emcrules_Laptop> same technology used in highend sick encoders
[03:58:50] <Tom_itx> the kit is $146
[03:59:02] <Emcrules_Laptop> you would only need the commutation outputs if your drive requires them and you motor has no hall signals
[03:59:27] <Emcrules_Laptop> yep and in the kit you get the demo board and one encoder
[03:59:28] <Tom_itx> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=2622557&k=AMT303-v
[03:59:36] <Tom_itx> do you need the kit to get started?
[04:00:25] <Emcrules_Laptop> no the encoders come pre programmed just need the boad if you want to change them
[04:00:48] <Tom_itx> can you specify how they are programmed?
[04:01:24] <Emcrules_Laptop> I dont think so. not to sure
[04:02:12] <Emcrules_Laptop> i will know more in a bit. Im talking directly with cui about them.
[04:02:24] <Tom_itx> keep us up to date on them
[04:02:31] <Tom_itx> i'm somewhat interested in those
[04:02:41] <Tom_itx> i may end up with steppers though
[04:02:44] <Emcrules_Laptop> they have a line driver version but digi key does not sell them
[04:03:07] <Emcrules_Laptop> so im getting samples from cui
[04:03:38] <Emcrules_Laptop> ah go servos!!!!
[04:03:52] <Tom_itx> cost is somewhat of a factor for me
[04:04:20] <Emcrules_Laptop> How big of motor drive system do you need
[04:04:57] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html
[04:05:09] <Tom_itx> i'm lookin at the steppers under #3
[04:05:41] <Tom_itx> possibly with the 4 channel gecko driver
[04:09:32] <Emcrules_Laptop> well if you could find some small brush motors you could use these encoders with a gecko driver
[04:09:49] <Tom_itx> yeah
[04:10:12] <Tom_itx> i'm probably gonna start lookin a bit more when i get back in a couple weeks
[04:12:06] <Emcrules_Laptop> be picky i was and im glad i chose not to settle with steppers. Dont get me wrong they work well. but if you can find the right deal it's worth it.
[04:13:03] <Tom_itx> i've got a little sherline with steppers currently. i'm either gonna update it a bit or make another one a bit more robust
[04:15:05] <Emcrules_Laptop> They are nice machines I wouldnt mind getting one.
[04:15:09] <MattyMatt> what'd the bed made out of on those?
[04:15:19] <Emcrules_Laptop> Off to bed. Night All
[04:15:22] <Tom_itx> alum
[04:15:40] <Tom_itx> me too. gnite
[04:16:08] <MattyMatt> I was just reading about the peatol/taig. the bed is tool steel plat on top of alum extrusion filled with concrete :)
[04:16:54] <MattyMatt> I guess the modern version would be granite-epoxy
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[13:26:53] <SWPadnos> great deal for a few more hours: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.596054&cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-596054-_-02102011
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[15:39:54] <JT-Work> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Shop%20Addition/P1010089.jpg
[15:40:28] <cradek> keep going!!
[15:41:24] <skunkworks> I shingled one side of the garage roof in one day. (by my self) pase yoursefl :)
[15:42:33] <cradek> shingling was the only part of the shop we paid someone else to do
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[15:47:41] <SWPadnos> heh. a not-quite-spam error: "Hi ##firstname##, You must look at this: $4.99 Shipping, CORE 2 DUO System $119, 19" LCD $79"
[15:49:32] <Guest64584> I just tried using 'named local variables' for the first time and am getting "bad character '>'" errors. Any suggestions?
[15:50:35] <SWPadnos> can you put a little snippet of the code on http://pastebin.ca/ ?
[15:53:24] <Guest64584> If I can access pastebin, I'm getting connection timed out.\
[15:54:01] <SWPadnos> can you paste one or two lines that give you problems here?
[15:54:20] <Guest64584> <clearance_plane>=0.1
[15:54:21] <Guest64584> <feedrate>=1
[15:54:33] <SWPadnos> you need a leading #
[15:54:45] <SWPadnos> #<clearance_plane>=0
[15:54:49] <Guest64584> oh!
[15:55:02] <SWPadnos> they're still variables, which need the # :)
[15:55:38] <Guest64584> Thanks!
[15:55:45] <SWPadnos> sure. have fun
[15:56:10] <Guest64584> Beginner error for the day, now that's done with the rest of the day should go well.
[15:56:28] <SWPadnos> yep. now you can graduate to advanced errors!
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[16:02:53] <alex_joni> hey SWPadnos
[16:02:57] <SWPadnos> hi
[16:02:57] <the_wench> hello SWPadnos, you have a question?
[16:03:03] <SWPadnos> argh
[16:03:26] <skunkworks> heh
[16:05:24] <alex_joni> haha
[16:05:54] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: how goes it?
[16:06:03] <SWPadnos> OK, how about you?
[16:06:12] <SWPadnos> somewhat busy, but that's always fun
[16:06:19] <SWPadnos> s/always/often/
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[16:07:54] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, do you still have contacts with people who do (inexpensive) website design?
[16:08:51] <tom3p> hello, if an axis motor has a brake, and the drive can control it, is it preferred to let hardware or emc/hal control the brake?
[16:08:54] <JT-Work> skunkworks: yea, when I get to shingling I'll do it myself
[16:09:23] <JT-Work> tom3p: on my Hardinge spindle I let EMC control the brake
[16:09:34] <SWPadnos> tom3p, how would the hardware know when to release the brake? If it's just amp-enable, then it's hard to decide who's controlling it :)
[16:09:59] <SWPadnos> if you need anything else, like a timeout before enabling motion, then you need EMC to be in control
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[16:10:34] <tom3p> the drive can be cfgd to release ( with timings) on power up & servo-ready.
[16:11:07] <tom3p> similar, it has logics for brakeon ( these are hlding brakes, not decell to stop brakes) std issue on yaskawas
[16:11:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah, kinda
[16:11:42] <alex_joni> design or implementation? or both?
[16:11:43] <SWPadnos> if you're low on I/O, then the drive is an option. if not, I'd use EMC
[16:11:55] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, probably both
[16:12:03] <tom3p> ok, its 'preferred ' to let emc control it, thx
[16:12:12] <SWPadnos> I think so. more flexible that way
[16:12:29] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yup, can you drop me an email with some "details", I'll forward it to put you in contact
[16:12:53] <SWPadnos> and you still have to make EMC deal with the brake even if the drive controls it - emc may give a following error if the motor can't move while the drive is releasing the brake
[16:13:29] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, sure. actually I should probably get one done for me too, I'll email within a week or so (heading out early tomorrow morning)
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[16:16:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: ok, no hurry on my side ;)
[16:16:35] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:16:39] <SWPadnos> more kids?
[16:16:47] <alex_joni> nah, one is more than a handfull
[16:16:48] <alex_joni> :D
[16:16:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:17:00] <SWPadnos> 4 hands full, I imagine
[16:17:58] <alex_joni> yeah
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[16:31:34] <danimal_garage> cleaning the shop FTMFL
[16:31:55] <danimal_garage> at least i got my bird's nest of wires organized
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[16:41:32] <tom3p> SWPadnos, yaskawa drives are not ready till the brake is dealt with.
[16:41:34] <tom3p> I plan to constrain motion until 'servo-ready' ack'd by emc.
[16:41:47] <tom3p> granted there is no feed back ( no swx set by opened brake )
[16:43:12] <skunkworks> I have one brake on the y axis - run hydraulicly. It gets deactivated with the axis enable pins.
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[16:43:37] <tom3p> any feedback?
[16:43:45] <cradek> that's a good idea because it'll brake on ferror
[16:43:45] <tom3p> or just a sequence?
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[16:46:37] <skunkworks> no feedback actually... probably should huh?
[16:46:48] <tom3p> and brake on enable vs vel=0... needed that once to hold a long pc on a C axis, acted like a lever, brake was more rigid than motor torq.
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[16:47:19] <tom3p> depends, really your succes so far is best indicator, and wether you can squeeze a released swx inside could be issue
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[16:48:17] <tom3p> thx for the ideas, i already wired it up for hdwr ctl, may try it first.
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[16:48:39] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/yassembly.JPG
[16:48:44] <cradek> make: *** No rule to make target `gui/images/axis_2_3.png', needed by `Master_User.pdf'. Stop.
[16:48:55] <cradek> oops
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[17:14:49] <danimal_garage> well i just dropped a can of red powder (for powdercoating) on the floor. Big cloud of red dust. There's definitely no milking these jeans for another day, that's for sure.
[17:15:06] <mrsunshine_> http://img23.imageshack.us/i/18198410150094516488648.jpg/ lets rip this X1 to shreds! =)
[17:15:41] <mrsunshine_> (the motor mount plate is going to be strengthened somewhat, its just a test mount to see that stuff fits :P )
[17:15:55] <cradek> uh is that all hanging on 1/4-20 all thread?
[17:16:34] <mrsunshine_> dont know what 1/4-20 is
[17:16:43] <mrsunshine_> i dont talk thumb :P
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[17:17:20] <mrsunshine_> cradek, its actualy just a tiny bit heavier then the original motor etc =)
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[17:48:40] <mrsunshine_> its not M6, its M8 or something :P
[17:50:48] <atmega> what is the M code to send mail?
[17:55:16] <SWPadnos> M1xx could do it
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[18:04:27] <Guest64584> New problem. When I load my program, emc2 just sits there with the spinny busy pointer. Any ideas/questions?
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[18:05:52] <psha> program too big?
[18:05:59] <psha> recursive defs?
[18:06:24] <Guest64584> It's a tiny thing for me to try out probing and subroutines.
[18:06:39] <AcklenX> I'm having problems with a new HobbyCNC Pro board and EMC2 on _my_ computer... but not on a friends computer
[18:07:36] <AcklenX> the steppers will turn in the proper direction, but it's very jerky (lots of torque, little movement)
[18:08:35] <SWPadnos> Guest64584, it's probably in an infinite loop (in the g-code). press escape to stop it
[18:09:03] <SWPadnos> www.pastebin.com was up - you could try sticking it on there
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[18:11:22] <Guest64584> Does that make sense when I just have loaded the program, not run it or anything?
[18:11:38] <Guest64584> http://pastebin.com/f3BXCHta
[18:13:05] Guest64584 is now known as davec
[18:13:08] <psha> Guest64584: it's interpreted to show you backplot
[18:13:15] <psha> preview
[18:13:22] <skunkworks> AcklenX: have you run the latency test on your comptuer?
[18:13:29] <psha> if you use axis or gremlin :)
[18:13:35] davec is now known as Guest47803
[18:15:05] <AcklenX> i did
[18:15:21] <AcklenX> i set the value a little bigger than the max
[18:15:30] <AcklenX> then a lot bigger than the max latency
[18:15:33] <skunkworks> for how long? running other stuff like glxgears, surfing?
[18:16:00] <AcklenX> glx gears, screen saver demos, moving windows
[18:16:25] <AcklenX> enough to visibly notice the machine was struggling
[18:16:56] <AcklenX> about 2 minutes
[18:17:39] <AcklenX> and of course nothing else is [explicitly] running when i load emc
[18:19:06] <AcklenX> it takes about 10 seconds for a stepper to complete one very jittery rotation on my machine, while the same setup on another machine will finish several rotations with just a quick tap
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[18:19:51] <AcklenX> and it's not a consistent jitter, sometimes in moves a littler more than others, sometimes theres a half second delay between motion
[18:21:23] <IchGuckLive> set the jitter to 50000 and then try some 20min movings and check the point with a clockmeter
[18:22:21] <AcklenX> forgive me i'm not sure what - "check the point with a clock meter" entails
[18:22:35] <IchGuckLive> and do also no energiesavings on the PC keep alive and fully operatabel forever
[18:22:54] <AcklenX> will do
[18:23:07] <IchGuckLive> im from Germany so i will find you a better reading
[18:23:32] <AcklenX> hehe, I appreciate the help
[18:23:43] <IchGuckLive> DTI says google
[18:23:46] <skunkworks> what is your base period?
[18:24:18] <AcklenX> uh oh... i'm not in front of _that_ machine at the moment
[18:24:32] <AcklenX> let me see if i can get that data
[18:24:49] <SWPadnos> Guest47803, you might want to use different numbers for the Oxxx loops and subs
[18:25:03] <SWPadnos> you have three O101 constructs
[18:25:23] <IchGuckLive> SWPadnos: thats what my students always run into
[18:26:36] <IchGuckLive> SWPadnos: coudt we gife the next version a better check so there are only 2exact O word numbers in a Gcode file
[18:27:04] <SWPadnos> I don't know enough about the inner workings of that code to even guess
[18:27:10] <SWPadnos> Ken Lerman wrote a lot of it
[18:27:27] <SWPadnos> (he's "lerman" in the devel channel)
[18:27:28] <IchGuckLive> check has to be befor starting generating the actual tool path ,Other it goes to a loop forever
[18:27:49] <SWPadnos> it would be an error, which would stop the preview/load anyway, I think
[18:28:17] <IchGuckLive> no no error accours the PChas to be Restarted
[18:28:26] <SWPadnos> ?
[18:29:04] <IchGuckLive> as i run on monday with a trainee to exactly this Fault
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[18:29:21] <Guest47803> OK, which O lines need different numbers?
[18:29:48] <IchGuckLive> he copied a While loop but did not changed the Oward numbers so ,at reload it crashed the system by doing a endless loop
[18:30:17] <AcklenX> skunkworks, can't get to my machine now - i'll stop wasting your time till i'm near my machine
[18:30:28] <skunkworks> ok :)
[18:30:49] <SWPadnos> Guest47803, lines 18 and 20 should be different from each other, and probably also different from 101, since that's used on line 5
[18:30:52] <skunkworks> there is usually a few people on here.
[18:30:58] <SWPadnos> maybe make them 102 and 103 if you like
[18:31:06] <Guest47803> So, do the numbers on a O- while and O- endwhile need to match or be different??
[18:31:28] <IchGuckLive> match for eatch loop
[18:31:41] <SWPadnos> right, you have a subroutine, which should have one name/number
[18:31:47] <AcklenX> that's good to know. I'm so close to having my first cnc machine. the tables build, i'm just testing the steppers before installing
[18:32:13] <Guest47803> OK, the manual needs to make that clearer.
[18:32:19] <SWPadnos> and two loops, each of which should have a matching pair of while/endwhile, with the same name/number between them, but different from the other loop and the subroutine
[18:32:29] <IchGuckLive> AcklenX: can you do somthing with DTI
[18:33:00] <AcklenX> i'm not sure what dti is..
[18:33:11] <IchGuckLive> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messuhr
[18:33:48] <IchGuckLive> AcklenX: if you got 2 or maybe for the big test 3 of this
[18:34:17] <AcklenX> i'm not sure what i would test
[18:34:56] <AcklenX> the motors spin fine connected to computer A, but stall/skip/jerk when connected to motor B
[18:35:07] <IchGuckLive> mount a cube on the end of yout table and then calibread a point there move around or mill for some tikme then move there again and if it works its perfect
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[18:35:34] <AcklenX> oh, these aren't connected to the table yet
[18:35:44] <IchGuckLive> ok
[18:35:46] <AcklenX> there just spinning in air
[18:35:59] <AcklenX> they're
[18:36:04] <IchGuckLive> so the different are the PC
[18:36:12] <AcklenX> yes!
[18:36:21] <AcklenX> but what?
[18:36:31] <IchGuckLive> did you check all axis or only one
[18:36:33] <AcklenX> i checked to parallel port mode
[18:36:38] <AcklenX> all
[18:36:45] <AcklenX> they all to the same thing
[18:37:39] <IchGuckLive> did you restart the system after stepconf generated the HAL ?
[18:38:01] <AcklenX> the parallel port is currently set to EPP, but I've tried ECP, PS/2, AT, OFF (yes I was that desperate), and I don't have an "EPP+ECP" mode like some
[18:38:13] <AcklenX> no
[18:38:17] <AcklenX> well... yes
[18:38:49] <AcklenX> not immediately, but in going through the various p-port modes i had to reboot to change the bios to try the next mode, so yes
[18:39:08] <IchGuckLive> im out i never had this problem longer then the restart
[18:39:16] <AcklenX> thanks
[18:39:41] <AcklenX> I'll jump back on in a little bit when I'm next to the problem computer
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[18:40:40] <AcklenX> Can I ask this, though... what is the difference between a stall and a missed stepz/
[18:41:29] <AcklenX> I would like to know how to best describe the rough/jerky sort of behavior i'm getting
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[18:43:54] <Guest47803> Thanks, SWPadnos and everyone. My probing subroutine is now working!
[18:44:04] <SWPadnos> great!
[18:44:44] <SWPadnos> AcklenX, missed steps will result in the part not being right, or the machine not being in the expected place after a run
[18:44:44] <IchGuckLive> 8) :DD XD :d
[18:44:57] <psha> SWPadnos: it's possible to use names in O calls, not only numbers?
[18:45:09] <AcklenX> what's a stall?
[18:45:15] <SWPadnos> for instance, you move in a square 10000 times, expecting to arrive at the starting point, and that doesn't happen
[18:45:39] <SWPadnos> a stall is when the motor basically stops moving, and you generally need to stop or drastically slow the step pulse rate to get it to re-start
[18:45:56] <SWPadnos> usually it's grossly noticeable, and the motor makes a terrible whining sound when it happens
[18:46:16] <SWPadnos> psha, yes: O<myfacingsubroutine> sub
[18:46:18] <AcklenX> hmm, not sure how to categorize my behavior
[18:47:10] <AcklenX> it certainly shakes and sounds terrible if it's sitting on a counter top, but no so much whining
[18:47:50] <IchGuckLive> AcklenX: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_stepconf.html#sub:Basic-Information
[18:47:57] <SWPadnos> if the motor keeps moving without you having to do anything, it's missed steps. if the motor stops then it's a stall :)
[18:48:09] <AcklenX> excellent, thanks
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[18:48:24] <IchGuckLive> AcklenX: go with this numbers and 50000 Base Period and then se
[18:51:23] <AcklenX> will do
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[18:55:00] <IchGuckLive> by for me its late here !
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[18:55:12] <AcklenX> thank you
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[19:56:01] <motioncontrol> good evenig.on emc , on lathe , can control x -z and another axis or only x and z?
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[19:56:34] <cradek> what is the other axis?
[19:58:59] <motioncontrol> Chris some time the opposite headland move motorized
[19:59:53] <cradek> you could call a second spindle's motion along Z the W axis
[20:00:46] <motioncontrol> yes it not can y but W axis ?
[20:02:33] <motioncontrol> i have see case study on : http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,1025/lang,english/#1278
[20:02:52] <motioncontrol> and are curioses how move the second turret
[20:04:09] <cradek> yeah probably it's W
[20:05:39] <motioncontrol> for rotation the second turret use another code or custom code because we can command only m6 t2 for one turret and the second turret movement command ?
[20:05:51] <cradek> good question
[20:06:10] <cradek> maybe you should ask questions in that thread
[20:07:04] <archivist> two independent emc's communicating possibly
[20:08:06] <motioncontrol> a dual channel indipendent sistem a multi task
[20:08:25] <motioncontrol> with digitital wait channel
[20:08:39] <motioncontrol> for sincronizzation
[20:09:34] <motioncontrol> and the another tool table for secondary turret
[20:15:50] <danimal_garage> man this cleaning stuff is for the birds
[20:16:10] <danimal_garage> at least i got most of the organizing done
[20:16:19] <atmega> I need to clean out my garage so I can get to my garage
[20:16:25] <danimal_garage> lol
[20:16:33] <atmega> in an arab land
[20:16:37] <atmega> <urk>
[20:16:47] <danimal_garage> i gotta clean it for a photo shoot tomorrow
[20:17:42] <danimal_garage> so i have to appear somewhat organized
[20:17:53] <danimal_garage> even though that'sa joke
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[20:19:21] <danimal_garage> i should bleach my hair and say i'm a natural blonde while i'm at it
[20:25:16] <AcklenX> hello again
[20:25:43] <atmega> and rent some hookers, put them in safety glasses and call them machinists
[20:26:04] <AcklenX> i ran home, and wrote down few things ...and installed vnc on my linuxcnc computer so i could check it from work
[20:26:18] <AcklenX> unfortunately my workplace blocks port 5900
[20:26:31] <atmega> rn it on a different port
[20:26:43] <cradek> 80 is a nice port to use
[20:26:52] <AcklenX> yes, as soon as i get home i'll change...
[20:27:09] <atmega> try with a web browser at :5800
[20:27:19] <AcklenX> 5800 is blocked too
[20:27:41] <AcklenX> as far as i can tell only 80 and 8080 are open to the outside world
[20:27:46] <AcklenX> (outbound)
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[20:27:59] <atmega> 443?
[20:28:03] <psha> 443
[20:28:19] <psha> better then 80 - 80 may go trough corporate proxy or something similar
[20:28:38] <AcklenX> anywho, i did set jitter to 50000 (the max value) and my steppers still sound and behave poorly
[20:29:16] <AcklenX> are some parallel ports just not up to the task?
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[20:33:54] <danimal_garage> atmega, that is the best idea i've heard yet
[20:34:04] <danimal_garage> i may even do that after the shoot
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[20:34:54] <AcklenX> you're right 443 is open (much harder for them to snoop on my activities on 443)
[20:35:22] <atmega> use an ssh tunnel
[20:36:26] <psha> AcklenX: even impossible if you fake connection first with HTTP headers :)
[20:36:32] <AcklenX> software police would be over here in a second if I installed any software to tunnel (i know this from experience)
[20:36:35] <psha> ah, that's for HTTP
[20:36:55] <psha> we've used HTTP headers trick (patched vtun) to pass trough shaping ;)
[20:37:12] <psha> somewhere between Moscow and Novosibirsk :)
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[20:38:14] <AcklenX> the best look i had was running proximatron as a reverse proxy, but again they complained bitterly to my boss
[20:38:58] <AcklenX> but back to emc world... is there any chance that the microstepping in the software is conflicting with the microstepping on the hardware?
[20:39:23] <Tom_itx> would that be picostepping?
[20:39:31] <AcklenX> that is to say on my hobbycnc pro board i have the jumpers set for 1/4 microstepping, and in emc i have it set to 4
[20:39:35] <AcklenX> hehe
[20:39:43] <AcklenX> it's behaving like that
[20:40:00] <psha> macrostepping, 10 revolutions per pulse
[20:40:12] <AcklenX> hehe
[20:40:26] <AcklenX> that would make for so fast rapids
[20:40:35] <Tom_itx> that'd be some serious feedrates if you could ever get it wound up
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[21:01:39] <Jymmm> Ayyone care to see what I've been doing?
[21:03:56] <atmega> does it involve hot chick?
[21:04:01] <atmega> or cool machines?
[21:04:48] <Jymmm> laser (no shark though)
[21:04:57] <bill20r3> Mmmlasery
[21:05:21] <Jymmm> Personalized Valentine Gifts http://i52.tinypic.com/99pbwn.jpg
[21:05:50] <Jymmm> (a lil late, I know)
[21:05:54] <Tom_itx> ok so exactly how many valentines do you have?
[21:05:54] <bill20r3> are those like aquarium-pebbles?
[21:06:10] <Jymmm> Glass stones, see US Quarter for scale
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[21:32:58] <JT-Work> Jymmm: you laser them?
[21:33:19] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Yeah
[21:33:24] <JT-Work> cool
[21:33:51] <JT-Work> need to change the + for a &
[21:34:11] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Doesn't show up as well.
[21:34:32] <JT-Work> tried it all ready I guess
[21:35:02] <Jymmm> yeah, you have to realize it's only 0.020 wide at best
[21:36:31] <JT-Work> are they flat kinda?
[21:36:32] <psha> or pick some unicodes from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_symbol
[21:36:32] <psha> ;)
[21:37:03] <Jymmm> JT-Work: flat on the bottom, curved on the top
[21:37:14] <JT-Work> you engraved the bottom?
[21:37:31] <Jymmm> Nah
[21:41:48] <JT-Work> make me one
[21:41:48] <AcklenX> alright, posted in the forum, hopefully someone will be able to help
[21:42:04] <JT-Work> where is a good place to get laptop batteries?
[21:42:52] <Jymmm> http://LaptopBatteries.orgy
[21:43:54] <SWPadnos> -y
[21:43:57] <SWPadnos> I hope
[21:44:25] <Jymmm> nope
[21:44:25] <SWPadnos> eww
[21:44:25] <Jymmm> +OhBaby!
[21:44:25] <SWPadnos> +ky
[21:44:27] <Jymmm> +condom
[21:44:35] <Jymmm> ++Bodycondom
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[22:19:13] <bill20r3> hi2techrat
[22:24:12] <mrsunshine_> hmm, got an idea for very snug threads
[22:24:26] <mrsunshine_> heat the material a couple of hundred degrees, bore and cut threads
[22:24:29] <mrsunshine_> let it cool
[22:24:32] <mrsunshine_> :P
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[22:48:30] <mrsunshine_> gaah i wish i had a freakin lathe =)
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[23:44:24] <UnderSampled> Anyone ever use an old computer with barely enough umph to run a gui, but run emc without a gui?
[23:44:28] <UnderSampled> is that possible?
[23:45:58] <JT-Shop> d510mo's are too cheap to try that
[23:49:38] <JT-Shop> but I think you can if you want to
[23:50:16] <JT-Shop> UnderSampled: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emcrsh