#emc | Logs for 2011-02-09

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[00:01:22] <Emcrules_Laptop> or use the startup disk creator?
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[00:24:33] <danimal_garage> is there any way to add more timer blocks in classic ladder? i added more in the load thread in hal, but i still only have like 15 or something
[00:24:42] <danimal_garage> i cant seem to add more for the life of me
[00:25:37] <danimal_garage> i needed almost all of them for my tool changer
[00:25:40] <Valen> startup disk creator
[00:25:50] <Valen> usb-creator i think its called
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[01:09:06] <danimal_garage> anyone need a gecko stepper drive?
[01:10:05] <Valen> got it all working hey danimal_garage?
[01:10:10] <Valen> servo that is
[01:10:29] <danimal_garage> somewhat
[01:10:35] <danimal_garage> still have a noise issue
[01:10:48] <danimal_garage> but that'll be fixed when i make the new enclosure
[01:11:01] <Valen> he says hopefully ;->
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[02:06:18] <danimal_garage> i guess i can just use the old timer module
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[02:31:34] <danimal_garage> yay resoldering every joint fixed my car's remote
[02:31:45] <atmega> I should try that
[02:31:55] <atmega> but, I tore the rubber thingie too so it will probably fail anyway
[02:32:08] <danimal_garage> there wasnt much to resolder in there
[02:32:21] <danimal_garage> i think it was the crystal
[02:32:35] <danimal_garage> that's the only one that looked a little suspect
[02:32:38] <atmega> mine is intermittent, but only really close
[02:32:53] <atmega> new battery also.... lots of blue/green crud on the traces though
[02:32:54] <danimal_garage> thats how mine was, i had to smack it a few times
[02:33:03] <danimal_garage> ah
[02:33:43] <danimal_garage> i'm stoked, i've been dealing with it not working well for probably 3 years, and it quit all together the other day
[02:34:48] <danimal_garage> i'm gunna celebrate by going to get some beer. bbl
[02:39:57] <atmega> I just took the other one from my wife, she never drives it.
[02:49:49] <danimal_garage> yay, last part to make on the lathe for tonight. now i only have to run one machine
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[02:53:20] <danimal_garage> yawn
[02:55:37] <Emcrules_Laptop> danimal, beer thirty?
[02:56:05] <danimal_garage> yep
[02:56:10] <danimal_garage> just cracked my first one
[02:56:40] <danimal_garage> i have no more setups to do tonight, so i just have to load parts and push the R button
[02:56:48] <Emcrules_Laptop> cant get my d510mo to post kinda pissed
[02:56:53] <danimal_garage> which means it's beer thirty
[02:57:03] <danimal_garage> really
[02:57:21] <danimal_garage> i dont know what post means, but it doesnt sound good
[02:57:38] <Emcrules_Laptop> ya i thinks me got bad ram
[02:57:42] <Jymmm> POST == Power On Self Test
[02:57:46] <danimal_garage> which concerns me because i just picked one of those up
[02:57:49] <danimal_garage> ahh
[02:57:56] <danimal_garage> crap
[02:57:57] <Valen> theres not much else that can go wrong with them
[02:58:10] <Valen> pulled everything else off it? just psu + ram + speaker?
[02:58:25] <Emcrules_Laptop> just psu and ram
[02:58:41] <Jymmm> Emcrules_Laptop: no speaker?
[02:58:45] <danimal_garage> dont have any other ram to try?
[02:58:48] <Emcrules_Laptop> do i need a 20pin to 24pin adapter
[02:58:57] <Jymmm> LOL
[02:59:09] <Emcrules_Laptop> yeah but its pc4300
[02:59:11] <Jymmm> 24p mobo needs 24p pwer
[02:59:42] <Emcrules_Laptop> That's not what i have read on the net but i thought i would ask
[03:00:13] <Jymmm> And someobody in Africa needs your help to get their millions and hteyr'e willing to share
[03:00:27] <Valen> some do and some dont
[03:00:37] <Valen> mbo manual should say
[03:00:41] <Valen> wrt 24 pin
[03:00:46] <danimal_garage> i'd believe the slow kid in Mrs. White's third grade class before i'd believe Jymmm
[03:00:49] <Valen> plug speaker in you may get a beep code
[03:00:52] <danimal_garage> :)
[03:00:55] <Emcrules_Laptop> LOL 24P was more for xeons and stuff like that
[03:01:20] <Valen> I have seen some that have needed it
[03:01:43] <Valen> but it'd be pretty rare
[03:01:55] <Emcrules_Laptop> and why would they make the pico in a 20P
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[03:02:12] <Valen> just sayin is all
[03:03:07] <danimal_garage> someone else here was running the pico power supply with the d510mo
[03:03:22] <Jymmm> OH LOOK, a 24 pin pico ps http://www.frys.com/product/5974914
[03:03:27] <Jymmm> DUH!
[03:03:28] <Emcrules_Laptop> I thought so too
[03:03:33] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[03:03:39] <danimal_garage> thats the one i was gunna get
[03:03:51] <danimal_garage> glad to see frys has the right one
[03:04:44] <danimal_garage> i went to fry's the other day, and they had about 6 of those pico power supplys, and 5 of them had been opened and returned
[03:04:53] <danimal_garage> which kinda scared me off
[03:05:14] <danimal_garage> i wonder why so many people returned them
[03:06:18] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://www.mini-box.com/PicoPSU-80-WI-32V this is the one i bought guess im buying an adapter as well
[03:09:56] <Jymmm> try a desktop PS to confirm
[03:11:53] <Emcrules_Laptop> It's not the psu just check a couple of sites and all said it worked fine with a 20 pin. But i will try a desktop psu. The mobo led does turn on just no video or post
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[03:37:25] <emcrules_laptop> Well it must be the ram tried a desktop psu and no go
[03:40:28] <Valen> no speaker available?
[03:43:04] <emcrules_laptop> im looking for one
[03:43:28] <Valen> somewhere I have some port80 cards lol
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[03:54:00] <emcrules_laptop> no speaker just amplified ones
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[03:56:10] <Valen> I meant PC speaker
[03:56:10] <Valen> internal
[03:56:10] <Valen> they are little piezo things these days
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[03:57:29] <emcrules_laptop> yeah I know dont have any.
[03:58:10] <emcrules_laptop> Thought i had one kicking around
[04:01:04] <skunkworks> emcrules_laptop: what are you trying to get to work?
[04:03:36] <emcrules_laptop> d510mo
[04:04:11] <emcrules_laptop> it wont post for me. I think i just have a bad ram stick
[04:05:47] <emcrules_laptop> Ah ha software wins floormats loose!!!!!
[04:09:16] <skunkworks> does the d510mo have the extra 4 pin (not the +4) plugged into the motherboard
[04:09:26] <skunkworks> power plug?
[04:10:01] <emcrules_laptop> You mean the one thats usually beside the cpu
[04:10:52] <emcrules_laptop> If so? No it does not
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[13:14:09] <psha> dimas_, nullie: anyone around?
[13:25:21] <nullie> yep, I'm here
[13:27:10] <psha> how to translate BACKANGLE and FRONTANGLE?
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[13:27:18] <psha> from this image
[13:27:36] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:27:37] <logger_emc> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2011-02-09.txt
[13:27:57] <psha> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/tool_positions.png
[13:28:34] <psha> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/lathe_lathe-user.html#cap:Lathe-Tool-Orientations
[13:28:51] <archivist> psha, that image is borked, a lot of the positions are unmarked
[13:29:37] <psha> archivist: i've picked it as an example for svg translation
[13:29:48] <psha> and it's working ;)
[13:30:42] <psha> however ways documented in the net are braindamaged - they all describe using xliff instead of po
[13:31:23] <psha> btw if it's needed i may mark other positions too while working on this :)
[13:31:50] <psha> also please check - i suspect that fron and back angles are misplaced on tool position 5
[13:32:40] <archivist> I tried using the info from that image over a month ago and got nowhere
[13:33:38] <psha> so maybe you'll correct it?
[13:34:11] <archivist> cradek, looked at it and made a similar comment :)
[13:34:27] <archivist> dunno where to start in the code
[13:35:44] <dimas_> psha, here
[13:36:09] <psha> archivist: in code?
[13:36:21] <psha> dimas_: i've posted link to the image a bit earlier
[13:36:27] <psha> how to translate backangle/frontangle?
[13:36:30] <dimas_> reading
[13:37:02] <archivist> psha, just probably opened the right file, tool_parse
[13:38:09] <psha> i may give you fixed SVG that i'm currently working on
[13:42:31] <dimas_> how is called a michinist who works on a lathe?
[13:42:38] <dimas_> machinist
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[13:43:36] <psha> токарь?
[13:46:05] <dimas_> in english I meant
[13:46:58] <psha> don't know :)
[13:47:07] <psha> archivist: http://psha.org.ru/tmp/tool_positions.svg
[13:47:23] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/tmp/tool_positions.ru.svg
[13:47:34] <psha> http://psha.org.ru/tmp/tool_positions.ru.po
[13:47:43] <psha> first is source, second is translation
[13:47:51] <archivist> some cropping lower middle
[13:47:51] <psha> third is .po file with strings
[13:48:03] <psha> yes, there were no labels before
[13:48:53] <archivist> move them up maybe
[13:49:59] <psha> fixed
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[13:50:39] <psha> archivist: 16:42 < dimas_> how is called a michinist who works on a lathe?
[13:51:40] <archivist> older word machinist, pc description lathe operator
[13:52:05] <dimas_> psha, from russian book it is most probably BACKANGLE - FRONTANGLE -
[13:52:10] <archivist> also much older, turner
[13:52:39] <dimas_> from russian book "A lathe operator", thanks archivist
[13:53:40] <archivist> as a turner/machinist and I would be swapping back and front angles
[13:54:14] <archivist> we do need to double and triple check which is correct
[13:54:45] <dimas__> <dimas_> psha, from russian book it is most probably BACKANGLE - задний угол FRONTANGLE - передний угол
[13:58:40] <psha> oops
[13:58:45] <psha> that's better ;)
[13:59:18] <psha> archivist: it would be better if somebody more confident will check it
[14:00:17] <psha> dimas_: http://psha.org.ru/tmp/tool_positions.ru.svg
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[14:19:45] <dimas__> psha, I need an english page describing tool geometry for lathe to compare
[14:19:58] <psha> remove .ru from image name
[14:21:22] <dimas_> tool_positions is not enough
[14:23:26] <psha> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/lathe_lathe-user.html#cap:Lathe-Tool-Orientations
[14:32:48] <dimas_> what I gave for translation is not correct
[14:33:01] <dimas_> it's not tool bit angles
[14:33:32] <dimas_> but orientation angles
[14:34:07] <psha> it's angles of tool sides as i understand
[14:37:41] <dimas__> psha, what I said as FRONTANGLE is russian book called - главный угол в плане
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[14:39:38] <dimas__> psha, if is not urgent could talk with couple industrial guys :)
[14:40:15] <psha> surely not
[14:40:24] <psha> currently it's only demonstration of possibilities
[14:40:54] <dimas__> ok
[15:11:59] <JT-Work> what does a multiplexer like this one do? http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/ADG608_609.pdf
[15:12:44] <JT-Work> it's used on this board http://www.oceancontrols.com.au/KTA-259.html
[15:12:46] <cradek> switches analog signals
[15:13:01] <JT-Work> ok, that makes sense then
[15:13:19] <cradek> i.e. selects one of several analog inputs and hooks it to the analog output
[15:13:22] <JT-Work> he has one max6674 and switches between the inputs
[15:13:30] <JT-Work> neat
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[15:34:12] <JT-Work> anyone know the number of a DIP multiplexer to look for?
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[15:36:41] <atmega> The spec sheet says ADG608BN or ADG609BN
[15:38:12] <JT-Work> couldn't see the trees for the forest, thanks
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[15:40:56] <JT-Work> searching Digikey shows a bunch of them for <$1 and the ADG608BN is $5, I wonder what the difference is
[15:41:36] <atmega> DIP costs more
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[15:42:39] <JT-Work> all the ones I'm looking at are DIP
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[15:43:23] <JT-Work> I just found this example for a 4051 http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Learning/4051
[15:43:35] <atmega> all the muxes, or all of that mux?
[15:44:00] <JT-Work> all the muxes
[15:46:02] <JT-Work> what does "on-state resistance" mean for a mux?
[15:47:39] <atmega> I'd assume it is the resistance across it when it is selected
[15:51:14] <atmega> max4617 looks to be about the same for $2.78
[15:51:33] <atmega> but, analog happily sends me samples so I tend to stick with them.
[15:52:59] <Tom_itx> muxies
[15:53:19] <mrsunshine_> http://www.yeticnc.com/images/siegX1/sideview.png <-- that part that the motor is not on but the spindle is on, if i bore 4 holes for M6 bolts in that from the top, do you think there would be any problem with integrity ? :)
[15:53:38] <JT-Work> it needs to be an analog multiplexer...
[15:54:10] <atmega> oh, that one wasn't?
[15:55:23] <JT-Work> the inputs are thermocouples
[15:56:31] <pcw_home> HC4051s are cheap and OK for low voltages
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[15:57:04] <JT-Work> pcw_home: thanks
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[16:00:23] <pcw_home> one thing, if you mux thermocouples make sure the mux/input A-D area has minimal thermal flux
[16:00:24] <pcw_home> (no heat source) so the whole area has the same temperature (isothermal)
[16:00:25] <pcw_home> silicon chips/bondwires are very sensitive thermocouples by themselves
[16:01:24] <JT-Work> ok thanks
[16:02:05] <pcw_home> this goes for the cold junction sensing area as well
[16:03:36] <JT-Work> my thoughts atm is to multiplex the thermocouple into the MAX 6674 on the Arduino proto board, that way I only need one of the expensive MAX 6674 chips
[16:03:37] <pcw_home> the cold junction sensor should be as close as possible thermally to where the TC leads go to pcb copper
[16:04:46] <JT-Work> this is the proto shield http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_21&products_id=51
[16:05:12] <atmega> I have a couple of those
[16:05:16] <JT-Work> the max would be on the soic pads and the mux in the middle
[16:05:44] <JT-Work> the thermocouple terminal blocks could be right next to the mux
[16:06:03] <pcw_home> OK but depending on how much accuracy you need you might need a heat spreader to thermally couple the Mac6674 to the TC inputs
[16:06:12] <pcw_home> max
[16:06:20] <JT-Work> it is a smoker controller :)
[16:06:38] <JT-Work> what is a heat spreader?
[16:06:42] <atmega> how many temp inputs?
[16:06:50] <JT-Work> at least 2
[16:06:55] <JT-Work> maybe 4
[16:07:07] <pcw_home> piece of 1/8 aluminum
[16:07:34] <JT-Work> ok, I have plenty of that
[16:07:48] <atmega> there's a 7805 under the shield putting out plenty of heat
[16:08:08] <JT-Work> on the UNO?
[16:08:35] <atmega> hmm, haven't seen an uno yet
[16:08:49] <atmega> are you powering it via usb or the external port?
[16:08:58] <JT-Work> http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=50
[16:09:05] <JT-Work> atm via the USB
[16:09:06] <pcw_home> any temperature difference between the max6675 and where TC metal joins copper will directly add to your errors
[16:10:20] <JT-Work> would that be small errors < 2F or so
[16:13:07] <JT-Work> they would be physically within about 1/2" or so on the board
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[16:13:43] <atmega> you can get 4 TI TMP100's for $3 and skip the thermocouples, mux, a/d, etc
[16:14:23] <JT-Work> what is a TI TMP100?
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[16:14:40] <atmega> i2c temp sensor
[16:17:14] <JT-Work> I don't think that would work well stuck inside a piece of meat... unless I googled up the wrong thing
[16:17:43] <atmega> oh, heh... probably not... I was thinking for the smoker itself
[16:17:48] <atmega> not in the meat.
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[16:18:01] <SWPadnos> you want a stainless tube to stick in the meat, with a thermocouple at the end
[16:18:06] <JT-Work> one for the smoker and the rest for IT of the food
[16:18:44] <SWPadnos> it's not all that fast as far as temperature transfer (the SS that is), but that actually helps a little in that the probe doesn't get affected as much by the air outside he meat
[16:19:10] <JT-Work> I have some of these thermistors to play with atm http://www.bbqequipmentstore.com/Maverick-ET-73-Replacement-Probes-ET-73-Probes.htm
[16:19:33] <atmega> anything other than SS might not be so great in meat anyway
[16:21:48] <atmega> great, now I have to buy a wireless smoker thermometer
[16:21:57] <JT-Work> LOL
[16:22:03] <JT-Work> build one
[16:22:17] <atmega> for $37? wireless? nah.
[16:23:06] <Jymmm> dual probes http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Remote-Check-Wireless-Thermometer-Probes/dp/B00004SZ10/ref=pd_sim_k_2
[16:23:21] <JT-Work> but it doesn't control the heater element or mix drinks for you
[16:23:42] <atmega> I do have an arduino sending the temp from one of the TI's to another one via some cheap RF modules
[16:24:40] <JT-Work> cool
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[16:24:53] <atmega> $4? for the tx/rx pair
[16:25:07] <JT-Work> what kind of range do you get?
[16:25:20] <atmega> dunno, they are still sitting on my desk
[16:25:20] <Jymmm> 12 miles
[16:25:38] <atmega> they work great 2ft apart so far :)
[16:26:55] <atmega> I have another arduino on my compressor that measures O2 in, O2 out, PSI that displays on an LCD. The plan is to add the RF to that so I can monitor the compressor from somewhere quieter
[16:27:10] <Jymmm> wifi and ham bands overlap. So, I can either go license free at 500mW or licensed at 100W =)
[16:27:41] <Jymmm> or 1500W if I'm feeling evil
[16:30:13] <Jymmm> JT-Work: These actually work pretty good http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Paw-Products-D333413-Handles/dp/B0002Y14M2/ref=pd_bxgy_k_text_c
[16:31:02] <Jymmm> JT-Work: can shred a pork roast easily
[16:31:32] <JT-Work> I don't shred pork but I do use these http://www.pigtailff.com/
[16:32:07] <Jymmm> Yeah, have one of those too, but too short
[16:32:11] <atmega> a big o-ring pick?
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[16:32:55] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW8UAzLeLIk
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[16:40:08] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMfVtfqvP34&NR=1
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[17:05:28] <JT-Work> dang it is snowing again
[17:13:19] <Jymmm> you just having a rough time arent ya?
[17:14:25] <JT-Work> I'm inside today... but yea having fun trying to get the roof done
[17:14:59] <Jymmm> i thought you got he trusses a few weeks ago
[17:19:39] <JT-Work> got the last truss up last weekend
[17:19:57] <Jymmm> ah
[17:20:19] <JT-Work> I had to mind meld the old roof to the new roof at the last truss
[17:20:33] <Jymmm> how far off?
[17:20:39] <JT-Work> I still have the last gable end and one lookout to fit up
[17:21:04] <JT-Work> not off just had to remove some of the old lookout for the truss to fit in the correct spot
[17:21:18] <Jymmm> ah
[17:22:00] <JT-Work> I should be blacked in by Sunday :)
[17:22:32] <Jymmm> cool
[17:22:41] <Jymmm> Sigh, 2100 nodes
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[18:12:45] <mrsunshine_> http://shop.otdtools.se/Shop/Image/Article/43505a.jpg heh nice =)
[18:12:55] <mrsunshine_> so you can actualy see what happends =)
[18:13:05] <TekniQue> neat
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[18:15:51] <L84Supper> anyone know if the batteries last long enough to say cut 10-15' of auto body? http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/circular-saws/18-volt-5-1-2-half-inch-cordless-circular-saw-67026.html
[18:16:47] <Jymmm> using what vlade?
[18:16:49] <Jymmm> blade
[18:18:19] <Jymmm> These have a fine kerf blade, if you are a little off in guiding it through the material, you'll stop the motor.
[18:18:54] <Jymmm> L84Supper: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[18:18:59] <L84Supper> metal cutting disc that one might use in an angle grinder
[18:19:57] <Jymmm> bettery life no biggy, just keep spare batteries handy. They just dont have a lot of power to them.
[18:20:08] <Jymmm> the motor I mean
[18:20:36] <Jymmm> Great for cutting plywood or a quick 2x4, but that's about it.
[18:20:50] <Jymmm> can't go fast either
[18:21:29] <L84Supper> was just thinking about options for getting parts from u-pick-it bone yards
[18:21:41] <JT-Work> the Dewalt one works good but the battery don't last long and not enough rpm's for a cutoff blade
[18:21:50] <L84Supper> you can't bring a torch
[18:21:52] <Jymmm> the reciprocating cordless saw works good
[18:22:16] <L84Supper> but a couple of car batteries on a dolly is ok
[18:22:59] <Jymmm> what about gas powered?
[18:23:23] <JT-Work> a HOT saw... more power
[18:24:22] <L84Supper> that might be ok, http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=9227 gas saw
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[18:24:40] <Jymmm> Yeah, that's what i was thinking
[18:25:24] <JT-Work> http://www.stihlusa.com/construction/cutquik.html
[18:25:34] <L84Supper> where are the pistol style laser/ray guns?
[18:25:56] <JT-Work> your not supposed to talk about them in public
[18:26:14] <Jymmm> JT-Work: (and thats why he doens't have one)
[18:26:59] <L84Supper> http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/mutara-phaser-surgery.jpg now this would be perfect
[18:27:27] <mrsunshine_> wtf is the thing that holds the material called? :)
[18:27:27] <mrsunshine_> wise?
[18:28:03] <Jymmm> Hmmm, something doesn't look right here... too small a motor? http://i54.tinypic.com/bioy0y.jpg
[18:28:10] <awallin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vise
[18:28:19] <Jymmm> He only wants $50, worth it?
[18:28:53] <mrsunshine_> vise...
[18:28:54] <mrsunshine_> hah
[18:29:13] <Jymmm> I know nothing of tile saws, Just need to cut 3/8" tile
[18:29:14] <mrsunshine_> so little difference but so big difference :P
[18:33:15] <Jymmm> nobody used a tile saw before?
[18:34:15] <JT-Work> I saw one once
[18:34:21] <Jymmm> heh
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[18:43:29] <bill20r3> fireballV90 == assembled & moving.
[18:47:49] <bill20r3> also, loud.
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[19:08:47] <atmega> loud stepping?
[19:11:58] <bill20r3> yeah, and the PSU fan is like a vacuum cleaner.
[19:12:17] <bill20r3> It shipped set to 1/2 stepping, after I switched to 1/8th, it's a lot quieter.
[19:13:40] <atmega> are the gantry sides mdf or plastic?
[19:15:30] <bill20r3> the sides along the Y are PVC pipe, the ends, along X, are MDF.
[19:15:42] <bill20r3> it's all MDF.
[19:15:56] <danimal_garage> i just dynamatted the crap out of my power drawbar. MUCH quieter!
[19:16:10] <bill20r3> dynamat, like the car-audio stuff?
[19:16:15] <danimal_garage> yep
[19:16:22] <bill20r3> I was just thinking about that stuff this AM.
[19:16:26] <bill20r3> works well?
[19:16:38] <danimal_garage> decently better
[19:16:41] <bill20r3> I think the V90's spoil-board is acting like a big sounding board.
[19:17:28] <bill20r3> can I get it at a local auto-parts place, or do I have to go to a specialty car-audio shop?
[19:18:09] <danimal_garage> depends on what you have for auto parts stores
[19:18:16] <danimal_garage> i think pep boys has it
[19:18:47] <danimal_garage> i got mine at a car audio store since i have like 4 of them right down the street
[19:19:04] <danimal_garage> it was $40 for like 4 square feet
[19:19:07] <bill20r3> holy expensive, wtf.
[19:19:08] <danimal_garage> not cheap
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[19:19:41] <danimal_garage> for my purposes, it was worth it
[19:19:51] <danimal_garage> i run this machine all day every day
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[19:20:07] <bill20r3> my brother installs car audio for a living, he can probably get me a good deal, or pile of scraps.
[19:20:13] <bill20r3> I'll ask him
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[19:23:26] <danimal_garage> good idea
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[19:59:41] <skunkworks> cradek: the raid box started writing out of the blue. Odd. :)
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[20:05:52] <cradek> machine 1 plugged into a hub downloads at 700 kB/s. machine 2 plugged into the same hub downloads at 30 kB/s.
[20:06:21] <alex_joni> are there still hub's out there?
[20:07:18] <danimal_garage> lol
[20:07:24] <danimal_garage> i use a hub
[20:07:36] <skunkworks> heh
[20:07:47] <danimal_garage> it's easier than running 3 network cables through the attic into the garage
[20:07:50] <skunkworks> I have had my share of headscratchers
[20:08:58] <skunkworks> I transfered about 1.5Tb of info from one server to another last night. (took about 24hours) windows server -> linux
[20:09:02] <danimal_garage> cradek, swap cables at the hub and see if it follows the port or the computer!
[20:09:16] <cradek> yeah, I haven't done any troubleshooting yet
[20:09:24] <cradek> it's definitely clear how to proceed...
[20:09:28] <danimal_garage> lol
[20:09:28] <alex_joni> danimal_garage: why not a switch?
[20:09:34] <danimal_garage> i figured
[20:10:22] <skunkworks> I just installed dd-wrt on a linksys router - looks pretty cool
[20:10:26] <danimal_garage> alex_joni, because i have a hub already. It's worked for the past 10 years, so no sense in switching to something else
[20:11:17] <danimal_garage> wow.... 10 years already
[20:11:22] <alex_joni> heh
[20:11:43] <cradek> I worked very hard to find a 100Mbit plain hub a year or so ago
[20:11:47] <danimal_garage> now i know what my 85 year old neighbor feels like when she said she thinks she just bought her 1982 dryer
[20:11:57] <cradek> it was important to be able to snoop all the traffic on the wire to debug a difficult problem
[20:13:02] <skunkworks> yah - we have done that before - hooked a hub between equipment to snoop
[20:13:09] <skunkworks> comes in handy
[20:13:21] <cradek> hang onto them... they are quite rare today
[20:13:37] <cradek> I had to replace caps in this one before I could use it :-)
[20:13:53] <danimal_garage> i had to replace the transformer for mine
[20:14:06] <danimal_garage> but it was just one of those 7.5v wall transformers
[20:15:03] <atmega> I have hubs with 10b2 ports
[20:18:04] <cradek> Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Idrop Opkts Oerrs Coll
[20:18:07] <cradek> em0 1500 <Link#1> 00:19:d1:56:5e:c0 7229 764 0 4971 0 0
[20:18:13] <cradek> smoking gun
[20:18:22] <cradek> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2004-October/060191.html
[20:19:01] <cradek> mailing list guy of the past says "it's hardware"
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[20:46:34] <psha> cradek: check cabletoo
[20:46:36] <psha> too
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[20:47:08] <cradek> I will, thanks
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[20:47:23] <psha> error rate is very high... 10%
[20:47:48] * skunkworks hugs his fluke cable tester
[20:48:09] <psha> also you may do 'lazy test' - run huge data stream through that port and watch how ierrors depend on ipkts ;)
[20:48:27] <psha> at least you don't need to plug and unplug anything :)
[20:48:54] <psha> skunkworks: my openwrt router feels insulted by your choice ;)
[20:49:03] <skunkworks> heh
[20:49:18] <skunkworks> psha: have you looked at both?
[20:49:22] <psha> yes
[20:49:29] <psha> ddwrt is definitely not for me ;)
[20:49:31] <skunkworks> why did you pick openwrt?
[20:49:43] <psha> it's more 'adjustable'
[20:49:56] <psha> ddwrt looks for me as a vendor firmware - get it, flush it, forget about it
[20:50:16] <skunkworks> I am not 100% sure that I am going to be able to use dd-wrt for what I want to do.
[20:50:24] <psha> openwrt allow you tuning - i've installed openvpn, radvd, 6to4 tunnel, avahi there
[20:50:50] <psha> and now my router is serving everything i need - except being NAS :)
[20:50:59] <skunkworks> I was hoping for a 1 stop local dns server. But it looks like it will only do local dns if it gives out the ip address though dhcp
[20:51:13] <psha> via dnsmasq?
[20:51:17] <skunkworks> yes
[20:51:28] <skunkworks> unless I am doing something stupid :)
[20:52:23] <psha> it's defacto standard for such systems
[20:52:27] <psha> i've one also
[20:52:41] <psha> but looking into openwrt feeds there is even bind9 :)
[20:53:02] <psha> maradns
[20:53:24] <psha> but unfortunately 'unbound' is not there
[20:53:39] <skunkworks> so I am screwed :)
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[20:54:29] <psha> do you need to serve local zone?
[20:55:29] <skunkworks> it is all internal network addresses (192.168.1.x) but I also am routing though another server (2.x and 3.x) so I cannot use the dhcp option though the router
[20:55:45] <skunkworks> *through
[20:56:12] <psha> bbl
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[21:18:10] <JT-Shop> anyone seen my big crow bar?
[21:18:30] <alex_joni> it's just next to the small crow bar
[21:18:31] <archivist> over there---->
[21:18:32] <cradek> it's to the right of the last large thing you moved
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[21:19:15] <archivist> had my house broken into the other week with MY crowbar!
[21:21:02] <kirk_wallace> Is there a way to verify (see) the search path for "#include <foobar>" in a comp?
[21:21:24] <JT-Shop> I know it is next to the small crow bar but I can't find either one :/
[21:22:05] * JT-Shop thinks back to the last big thing I moved... oh yea it was the 6k lb mill
[21:27:57] <Jymmm> s/6k lb mill/40oz bottle/
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[21:48:41] <JT-Shop> alex_joni: is the winner the big crow bar was next to the small crow bar but neither were near the last big thing I moved
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[21:54:15] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: haha
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[21:55:18] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: what did I win?
[21:55:24] <archivist> a beer
[21:55:45] <alex_joni> hmm.. can't remember when I had my last one
[21:55:56] <JT-Shop> some homemade jerky and a free copy of EMC2
[21:56:07] <alex_joni> that sounds better ;)
[21:56:21] <Valen> mmmm jerky
[21:57:06] * JT-Shop remembers thinking what a good place to keep the crow bars... easy to find :/
[21:57:09] <psha> JT-Shop: with autograph!
[21:57:19] <psha> JT-Shop: near front door ;)
[21:57:37] <psha> so if you loose your keys you still may get it
[21:57:40] <JT-Shop> too much near the front door now :P
[21:58:36] <psha> bb
[21:58:38] <psha> night here
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[21:59:19] <Valen> http://img109.imageshack.us/i/halscope10khz.png/
[21:59:49] <Valen> bah stuff it i'll put it on my server
[22:00:16] <cradek> http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7222/halscope10khz.png
[22:00:41] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/temp/halscope_10khz.png
[22:01:20] <Valen> and http://www.vapourforge.com/temp/halscope_1000hz.png
[22:01:53] <cradek> not a great tuning...
[22:01:53] <Valen> red is the feedback-deriv which is coming from the mesa card
[22:02:11] <Valen> I would like to improve it
[22:02:32] <cradek> can you hear it buzz? you've got high frequency oscillation that you should solve first
[22:02:32] <Valen> the ferror is pretty small though, about 10-15 counts
[22:03:10] <Valen> there are about 47 frequencies in it lol
[22:03:20] <cradek> is it even moving during these plots?
[22:03:22] <Valen> a FFT would be an idea though
[22:03:27] <Valen> yeah 200mm/minute
[22:03:36] <cradek> so this is a constant speed cruise?
[22:03:41] <Valen> yeah
[22:03:51] <cradek> yuck, is there something wrong with it mechanically?
[22:03:55] <Valen> probably
[22:04:01] <Valen> its a chinese mill
[22:04:30] <cradek> hmm
[22:04:40] <cradek> what are your pid gains?
[22:04:57] <Valen> P= 3 I = 80 D = .003 as I recall
[22:05:04] <Valen> FF1 is .000something
[22:05:11] <cradek> get rid of the highest frequency buzz first - turn down P or adjust D
[22:05:36] <Valen> if D goes any higher the output goes negative for some of the time
[22:05:45] <cradek> tune first with I=0, get rid of as much ferror as you can (possibly by using FF1/FF2) before you enable any I gain
[22:06:04] <Valen> I have run through the whole PID tuning sequence many many times
[22:06:13] <Valen> If i turn P down ferror goes up
[22:06:34] <cradek> you may have to fix the mechanical problems to get good consistent following
[22:06:51] <cradek> I've never seen an ferror plot like that
[22:06:52] <Valen> short of bolting linear rails on that probably isn't going to happen
[22:07:15] <cradek> fix the oscillation and tolerate the ferror then, I guess?
[22:07:28] <Valen> keep in mind we are looking at the output of linear scales here
[22:07:39] <cradek> what's the leadscrew?
[22:07:44] <Valen> not an encoder on the motor
[22:07:51] <Valen> chinese ballscrew
[22:08:08] <cradek> is there a tach on the motor? are the amps velocity mode?
[22:08:21] <Valen> there are no "amps" as such, its MESA hardware
[22:08:28] <Valen> PWM out > motor
[22:08:37] <Valen> no tach on motor
[22:08:39] <cradek> yikes, no wonder you can't tune it
[22:08:42] <archivist> torsional resonance of the screw?
[22:08:58] <cradek> can you fit an encoder to the motor and use two pids?
[22:08:59] <Valen> cradek: your saying nobody using the mesa chain can tune their mill?
[22:09:17] <Valen> I have been looking at doing that
[22:09:22] <Valen> might make things a bit better
[22:09:40] <cradek> no, but add in scales and cheap ballscrews and I might certainly say that
[22:09:41] <skunkworks> would hooking the mesa velocity from the encoder to the pid help (if it isn't already)
[22:10:01] <cradek> he did that
[22:10:03] <Valen> skunkworks: already did lol, it made the D output 50-80% better
[22:10:06] <skunkworks> oh
[22:10:52] <Valen> the feedback derivitve is still rather large
[22:11:56] <Valen> I was thinking of low pass filtering the velocity
[22:11:58] <cradek> Valen: http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg21477.html
[22:12:11] <Valen> thats me
[22:12:14] <cradek> Valen: low pass = added delay
[22:12:45] <cradek> you're Jake A?
[22:12:50] <Valen> yup
[22:12:54] <cradek> did you try any of that advice?
[22:13:09] <Valen> it runs ok at 10khz, and I figure it might help take out some of the sharp edges in it
[22:13:22] <Valen> might make ferror a little worse but improve the smoothness
[22:14:03] <Valen> was a lot over my head when you suggested the dual PID, and its still a little over
[22:15:05] <cradek> bbl
[22:15:20] <Valen> I'm thinking of writing a component to handle the FF1 issue, so I can use that to give a D that has an exponential variance with velocity
[22:21:05] <Valen> I think with the direct drive motors we are seeing second order effects starting to dominate
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[22:27:43] <Valen> whats a cheap source for encoders?
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[22:32:07] <JT-Shop> automationdirect.com
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[22:34:17] <skunkworks> I have used the these for feedback... http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=1966131&k=amt103
[22:35:27] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/Spindlemotorenc.JPG
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[22:42:49] <Valen> hmm then I need to get it into mah mesa board somehow lol
[22:43:07] <Valen> level translator/buffer IC should be sufficent
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[22:44:50] <Valen> I was looking through digikey in stock and wasn't turning up anything, thanks skunkworks
[22:45:04] <Valen> lesse
[22:45:15] <Valen> !later skunkworks I was looking through digikey in stock and wasn't turning up anything, thanks skunkworks
[22:46:44] <Valen> how bad would it be to have the encoder on the opposite end of the ballscrew?
[22:48:52] <Valen> ie motor > screw > encoder, its not ideal I know but it might be all we can do mechanically
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[23:04:31] <Valen> archivist: that automation place cheapest hollow shaft encoder is $86 ;->
[23:05:53] <Valen> the $23 from digikey is sounding good ;->
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[23:09:43] <PCW> I think it would be pretty hard to tune without the high frequency parts of the loop ( P and D ) running on the motor encoder
[23:10:21] <PCW> Others that have done this just use the linear scale for the I term
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[23:12:08] <tsingi> Hola
[23:15:10] <tsingi> I have a 64bit box over here designated to run a homebrew cnc knee mill. It has fedora 14 on it, but it can be anything. I see there is a 32bit version of ubuntu 10. Any advice on what linux distro would be easiest to get started with? I'm a Linux developer, I prefer bare bones to kitchen sink Linux.
[23:15:48] <JT-Shop> EMC LiveCD is the easy way to go
[23:16:05] <JT-Shop> 10.04 is the latest
[23:16:25] <Valen> PCW thats what I was thinking along the lines of
[23:16:34] <Valen> did you see the traces?
[23:18:58] <elmo40> hi people. not really an EMC related question but sorta automation related.
[23:19:03] <PCW> No I'll take a look
[23:19:06] <elmo40> I have a greenhouse. I want to put a temperature probe in it and record every 10 or so minutes to the computer. Plus, if the temperature is > 40C I want the fan to go on. Any idea how I can get this accomplished?
[23:19:21] <elmo40> I could use a PLC
[23:19:31] <alex_joni> or a small micro
[23:19:33] <JT-Shop> Ardunio comes to mind
[23:19:36] <Valen> AVR
[23:19:56] <alex_joni> ARM :)
[23:19:59] <elmo40> but how do I record the values to a database or csv file for gnumerics?
[23:20:18] <kirk_wallace> Standard Linux PC
[23:20:18] <alex_joni> ethernet :)
[23:20:23] <JT-Shop> you can send it to your PC
[23:20:25] <atmega> I have a bunch of temp/humidity data loggers at work, they alarm at whatever temp, but can't turn on a fan
[23:20:48] <elmo40> so... arduino to read the temperature and turn on a fan when necessary?
[23:20:48] <bill20r3> USB-Bitwhacker board, with a thermistor on one of it's analog-in's, and a solidstate relay on one of the outputs?
[23:21:05] <JT-Shop> PCW found me a neet ssr to turn on my 500 watt heaters from the Ardunio Uno
[23:21:14] <elmo40> atmega: if it gives an alarm then the computer can do something when alarm sounds
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[23:22:18] <bill20r3> or KISS and control the fan with a a $20 'dumb' thermostat, and a relay.
[23:23:34] <JT-Shop> elmo40: I modified a household ac controller to turn on a fan
[23:24:04] <JT-Shop> http://suburb.semo.net/jet1024/Controller.htm
[23:24:04] * bill20r3 looks for info on sound enclosures
[23:24:20] <JT-Shop> dome of silence :)
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[23:24:39] <the_wench> skunkworks: Valen said I was looking through digikey in stock and wasn't turning up anything, thanks skunkworks
[23:25:01] * JT-Shop wonders what the wench is up to
[23:25:39] <skunkworks> that is creepy
[23:25:59] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[23:26:00] <logger_emc> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2011-02-09.txt
[23:26:01] <Valen> heh cool it worked
[23:26:50] <tsingi> ooh, people, cool.
[23:27:12] <tsingi> OK, I've downloaded the live cd.
[23:27:54] <kirk_wallace> I am trying to make sense of the parallel port drivers by looking at the existing driver files on git. One of the common files "included" is hal_parport.h. I expected to find this file on my EMC2 PC so that I could include it in my driver, but it and other common files are not to be found. I have loaded the dev package. Is there another package to install?
[23:28:21] <PCW> Valen: I'm with Archivist. looks like resonance or just too much lag in the mechanics to have high enough P and D terms
[23:28:22] <JT-Shop> tsingi: just make sure you run the latency test to see if your PC is not one that has high latency
[23:28:32] <skunkworks> Valen: what do you mean? I see 1475 in stock at digikey. Oh - are you're outside the us...
[23:28:41] <skunkworks> is that it?
[23:28:54] <Valen> I was looking for 2048 count encoders they don't show up
[23:29:12] <tsingi> JT-Shop: It's a few years old, I'll do that.
[23:29:25] <skunkworks> Valen: they are adjustable from like 12 to 10000 counts (or something like that)
[23:29:39] <Valen> yeah I figured that was why
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[23:31:58] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Shop%20Addition/P1010089.jpg
[23:32:12] <JT-Shop> yesterday http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Shop%20Addition/P1010088.jpg
[23:33:42] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: great
[23:33:49] <JT-Shop> thanks
[23:33:58] <bill20r3> Brrr
[23:34:04] <alex_joni> I've been doing some plasma cutting lately :)
[23:34:15] <JT-Shop> cool, air or other?
[23:34:32] <alex_joni> air, pretty thin stuff .. up to 1/2" or so
[23:34:46] <alex_joni> the machine can do 1 1/2"
[23:35:30] <alex_joni> great results at about 1300mm/min
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[23:36:08] <JT-Shop> mine can cut up to 1" but it ain't pretty :/
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[23:36:26] <JT-Shop> 3/4" and under is good
[23:37:05] <alex_joni> this one's 115A
[23:37:12] <JT-Shop> I can't wait to get all the metal working equipment out of the garage and into the shop
[23:37:18] <alex_joni> 240kg though .. so not really portable :D
[23:37:20] <JT-Shop> lol mine is 240v
[23:37:30] <JT-Shop> oh A
[23:37:37] <JT-Shop> mine is 50A
[23:37:37] <alex_joni> I meant the plasma arc current
[23:38:03] <alex_joni> max cutting 45mm (~2") but not pretty
[23:38:07] <JT-Shop> oh mine is 80A arc current
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[23:38:59] <alex_joni> hmm.. then you probably need a bigger nozzle, higher airflow for 1"
[23:39:18] <alex_joni> 80A should definately get through 1"
[23:39:47] <JT-Shop> it does but it is not real pretty
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[23:40:28] <JT-Shop> I even have an air dryer ahead of the plasma and it makes a difference in this area in the summer
[23:41:01] <alex_joni> heh
[23:41:20] <alex_joni> well, I'm off to bed
[23:41:22] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:41:50] <JT-Shop> good night Alex
[23:44:34] <Valen> anybody heard of people using peristaltic pumps for way and bearing oil?
[23:44:55] <JT-Shop> I've never heard of it
[23:45:36] <Valen> see any reason why not to do it?
[23:46:26] <JT-Shop> non that I know of
[23:46:36] <JT-Shop> if you can pump it why not
[23:47:10] <Valen> we were thinking of combining a few hoses into one pump so it can pump different oils to different places
[23:47:31] <JT-Shop> interesting idea
[23:47:55] <emcrules_mobile> just volume and pressure if it can do it then why not
[23:48:03] <elmo40> bill20r3: I don't want KISS. I want automation with my computer along with recorded values.
[23:48:23] <Valen> how much pressure would be needed if you don't need metering orfices?
[23:48:46] <bill20r3> I meant just for the fan.
[23:49:25] <Valen> DC fan, PC running EMC, feed temperature in as position
[23:49:27] <Valen> QED
[23:49:34] <Valen> mesa chain to run fan
[23:50:17] <Valen> or you could be lame, use AC fan, and a stepper connected to a dimmer switch to run it all
[23:50:21] <emcrules_mobile> don't know would have to test it out
[23:51:00] <elmo40> Valen: lol, using a stepper to turn on/off a regular light switch :P
[23:51:03] <elmo40> but good idea!
[23:51:10] <elmo40> only if the motor can handle humidity.
[23:51:20] <Valen> even better, put a VFD on the fan
[23:52:02] * JT-Shop calls it a night out here
[23:52:07] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]]
[23:52:41] <emcrules_mobile> got my encoders in today man they are small
[23:53:04] <elmo40> found something: http://www.arduino.cc/playground/ComponentLib/Thermistor2