#emc | Logs for 2011-02-08

[00:00:10] <Valen> JT-Shop: it seems to go from "hal does interface to hardware" to halcmd: loadrt siggen without much in between
[00:00:30] <PCW> the encoder section of the regmap file has a fair description of what you are doing
[00:00:39] <JT-Shop> in the HAL manual?
[00:01:14] <Valen> I was looking at the hal info and tutorials
[00:01:15] <danimal_garage> it saw the index in the z axis, but not x or y
[00:01:22] <danimal_garage> weird
[00:01:35] <Valen> I spose I'm lazy
[00:02:01] <Valen> I don't want to read 60 pages to do "something simple"
[00:02:11] <JT-Shop> take a look at what Andy linked it has a more basic understanding of "writing some HAL"
[00:02:20] <Valen> I normally try to google for an example close to what I'm doing then modify that to doing what I want
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[00:02:45] <JT-Shop> this is a good example http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_basic_hal.html#r1_1_4
[00:02:47] <Valen> but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of "intermediate" examples
[00:03:20] <JT-Shop> are you talking about component examples or HAL?
[00:03:28] <Valen> i have no idea lol
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[00:03:36] <PCW> danimal: probably right on the edge, try 4 ( = divide by 6 so 180 nS basic encoder clock) so 2.7 usec minimum pulse width
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[00:04:09] <danimal_garage> i tried 1 and no dice
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[00:04:21] <danimal_garage> but z worked at 8
[00:04:25] <JT-Shop> Valen: read this first http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_basic_hal.html
[00:04:25] <Valen> the hal user manual is very wordy but last time i read it seemed to gloss over details but be verbose on things about being a "machine integrator" and how wonderfull it all is
[00:04:28] <JT-Shop> very short
[00:04:35] <Valen> yeah reading that now
[00:04:58] <JT-Shop> the HAL manual is a bit confusing at the least
[00:05:06] <Valen> thats what I mean
[00:05:11] <Valen> there is introductory stuff
[00:05:15] <Valen> and advanced stuff
[00:05:22] <Valen> but not much in between
[00:05:45] <howard> Hi Valen
[00:06:18] <Valen> zup
[00:06:18] <howard> HDB10 have logged on a new system
[00:06:35] <JT-Shop> Valen: I wouldn't even read the HAL manual unless you want to run HAL from the command line
[00:07:04] <Valen> what I'm after is a method of making FF1 have an exponent in it
[00:07:17] <Valen> IE i want the value given to FF1 to depend on the velocity
[00:07:35] <Valen> I can see how its a pin input
[00:08:04] <Valen> but I cant see how to take in the velocity * it by some formula then pass it into the PID
[00:09:05] <Valen> looks like it needs a component
[00:09:42] <JT-Shop> that's a bit beyond my guesspertice :)
[00:10:12] <Valen> guesspertice good word that lol
[00:10:17] <Valen> i'll have to borrow it
[00:10:46] <PCW> danimal well rats maybe your index pulse is really short so all this filtering cant be used
[00:11:09] <danimal_garage> damn
[00:11:22] <danimal_garage> but it's weird that the z axis worked at 8
[00:11:52] <Valen> PCW i'm not sure my scales have an index pulse, any suggestion for how to find out?
[00:12:02] <Valen> if they do it'll have to be pretty short
[00:12:07] <Valen> like .001mm or so
[00:12:30] <PCW> Index out wires?
[00:13:00] <Valen> I haven't seen them on a normal scope
[00:13:12] <Valen> but that might be because they are too fast
[00:13:27] <Valen> its all wired up to the index input on the mesa card
[00:13:44] <PCW> wire it to an encoder and see if index enable gets cleared when you move it
[00:14:08] <Valen> do i need to set index enable first?
[00:14:18] <JT-Shop> something like that
[00:14:29] <PCW> yep
[00:14:33] <Valen> ok, how do i set index enable without pressing home lol
[00:14:42] <Valen> command line?
[00:15:05] <JT-Shop> you can do it from the Show Hal thing in Axis
[00:15:22] <Valen> whomever wrote axis needs more beer lol, he made EMC easy enough to use for n00bs like me
[00:15:40] <Valen> JT-Shop: I'll investigate that this afternoon
[00:15:41] <Valen> thanks
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[00:16:19] <PCW> (but disconnect it inside hal first and I would do this with drives disabled)
[00:16:34] <Valen> any paticular reason?
[00:16:39] <andypugh> FF1 should already be velocity
[00:16:52] <Valen> andypugh: i need it to be non linear response though
[00:17:11] <JT-Shop> Valen: encoder.N.index-enable bit i/o
[00:17:13] <JT-Shop> When true, counts and position are reset to zero on the next rising edge of Phase-Z. At the same time, index-enable is reset to zero to indicate that the rising edge has occurred.
[00:17:14] <andypugh> I don;t think that there are any non-linear functions in HAL
[00:17:16] <Valen> I can tune to ~0 ferror with FF1 but if i change the speed then i get an offset
[00:17:57] <andypugh> You might need to write a component. It is easy if you know any C, but not if you don't.
[00:18:05] <Valen> C isn't so bad for me
[00:18:09] <Valen> writing it for AVR's
[00:18:25] <Valen> anything other than the hal manual for writing components?
[00:18:28] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_comp.html
[00:18:46] <Valen> that looks word for word from the manual lol
[00:19:26] <Valen> I spose it'd be an idea to get the hang of, with that I'd be able to do something about the periodic error as well
[00:19:47] * JT-Shop heads inside to prepare for supper
[00:20:13] <Valen> (moving at a constant speed we get a nice sine wave in ferror (with i = 0) that is 1:1 with the screw RPM it seems
[00:20:53] <PCW> drunken screw...
[00:21:06] <Valen> worth exactly what we paid for them probably
[00:21:12] <danimal_garage> lol
[00:21:35] <danimal_garage> thanks for the help pcw
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[00:22:02] <danimal_garage> i reduced the velocity a little, seems to help
[00:22:22] <danimal_garage> at least until i can build my new enclosure where i can isolate stuff better
[00:22:27] <PCW> I guess you are down to separation and shielding
[00:22:31] <danimal_garage> yea
[00:22:45] <Valen> getting a scope might help you a fair bit
[00:22:47] <alex_joni> this is pretty wild: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m28QmqnzMys
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[00:22:54] <danimal_garage> i just have to make it through this week
[00:23:39] <PCW> ferrite beads on motor drive cable can help
[00:23:40] <PCW> (or turn filter off, home turn filter on)
[00:24:17] <Valen> alex_joni: what is it?
[00:24:20] <danimal_garage> hmm
[00:24:31] <PCW> filter off is 0xFFF = 4095 decimal
[00:25:01] <danimal_garage> i do that in terminal?
[00:25:23] <alex_joni> Valen: Magic Lantern.. custom firmware for the 60D camera
[00:25:32] <alex_joni> adds loads of manual controls and whatnots
[00:25:35] <danimal_garage> wow, it's WAY off now
[00:25:39] <danimal_garage> holy crappers
[00:26:37] <Tom_itx> PCW do you loop the wire thru the bead like a knot or just slide it on the wire?
[00:27:06] <Jymmm> loop
[00:27:18] <Jymmm> more loops the better
[00:27:21] <PCW> maybe something else is flakey
[00:27:22] <PCW> Tom_itx just feed the three motor U,V.W through the bead
[00:27:36] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:27:41] <Tom_itx> now who to believe
[00:28:02] <danimal_garage> looks like i need to build my enclosure tonight
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[00:28:32] <PCW> well with the beads I have and 18-14 gauge wire 1 pass is all that will fit
[00:29:04] <Valen> danimal_garage: whats the 25 words or less of your problem?
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[00:30:00] <danimal_garage> losing position
[00:30:22] <Valen> does it drift out over time or can you do something to cause it?
[00:30:33] <PCW> one pass of all three wires (like 15 mm ID 25 mm OD 28 MM long bead)
[00:31:08] <PCW> this is a low freq bead
[00:31:26] <Valen> If i wanted to smooth the velocity some more before passing it into the PID is there a component or something out there for that?
[00:32:03] <danimal_garage> i dont know
[00:32:26] <Valen> is it one axis or all of them danimal_garage?
[00:33:52] <PCW> Valen you can use the low pass filter but it will tend to make it unstable (you lose phase margin)
[00:34:17] <danimal_garage> one axis
[00:35:00] <Valen> I spose I might be better served going to PID within a PID, one to run at high frequencies to behave like a normal PID and one for lower frequencies to handle the mill being crap
[00:36:22] <Valen> what I'm seeing is the D term makes the output from the PID basically a "fat" line, with the velocity feedback its gone from being about 100%-150% of the signal to around 50% so that's great
[00:37:20] <PCW> danimal_garage you may want to verify that you really have differential signals (check that A and /A B and /B and Z and /Z have opposite polarities)
[00:37:22] <Valen> but It feels like its responding to microscopic changes in ferror, and leaving the big bits behind
[00:38:15] <danimal_garage> pcw, the manual says differential
[00:38:20] <danimal_garage> but i can check
[00:38:32] <PCW> If you have any quadrature error, the velocity estimation will reflect that error
[00:39:49] <danimal_garage> so i check voltage across a and a/?
[00:40:00] <PCW> danimal_garage a bad (stuck) output might make it act like this
[00:40:04] <Valen> would that show up as position error?
[00:40:14] <Valen> I should scope velocity
[00:40:29] <danimal_garage> and make sure + is on a and - is on /a?
[00:41:59] <PCW> make sure (when nothing is moving that if A is high /A is low and vice versa)
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[00:42:35] <PCW> same for B and Z (Z will be harder to find)
[00:43:57] <danimal_garage> PCW, i threw my meter on a and /a and it was positive
[00:44:04] <danimal_garage> same with b and /b
[00:44:14] <PCW> Valen: it will show up as alternating velocities, at each encoder edge
[00:44:19] <danimal_garage> z was negative
[00:45:44] <PCW> A to ground and /A to ground etc one shoul dbe high , the other low (move a bit and they should reverse)
[00:47:22] <danimal_garage> yea that seems right
[00:48:25] <danimal_garage> the manual for the drives does say it's a differential output as well
[00:51:16] <PCW> Does the axis with drift have longer wires?
[00:51:26] <danimal_garage> nope, all the same
[00:52:18] <PCW> You could try swapping drives (also routing resolver wires away from motor drive wires)
[00:53:13] <danimal_garage> yea ill have to play with the wiring
[00:53:15] <PCW> bbl ttgh
[00:53:20] <danimal_garage> thatnks!
[00:53:23] <danimal_garage> adios
[00:53:28] <danimal_garage> -t
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[01:32:32] <danimal_garage> crap, i tweaked the hell out of my enclosure door when i welded in a filler pannel
[01:32:39] <danimal_garage> now it wont close right
[01:33:40] <Tom_itx> un tweak it
[01:34:49] <danimal_garage> i cant
[01:35:01] <danimal_garage> it pops from one extreme to another
[01:35:08] <Tom_itx> heat it up again
[01:35:08] <danimal_garage> no in between
[01:36:32] <Tom_itx> use short weld strips, that sometimes helps those problems
[01:36:55] <danimal_garage> too late lol
[01:37:09] <atmega> use the plasma cutter on the edge
[01:37:21] <danimal_garage> i dont have one
[01:37:28] <atmega> now's your chance
[01:37:35] <Tom_itx> heat it back up and move it where yo want it
[01:38:17] <emcrules_> Danimal: Found some low cost encoders with programmable commutation tracks
[01:38:38] <danimal_garage> nice!
[01:38:40] <danimal_garage> where?
[01:38:43] <emcrules_> CUI
[01:39:02] <emcrules_> 40$
[01:39:27] <emcrules_> 1024ppr differential + hall signals
[01:40:02] <danimal_garage> nice
[01:40:43] <emcrules_> http://products.cui.com/adtemplate.asp?invky=427090&brand=motion-control&catky=112362&subcatky1=994182&subcatky2=997829&subcatky3=
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[01:42:20] <Valen> that could be very handy
[01:42:56] <emcrules_> yep now i can ditch my hiperface encoders for something east to use
[01:43:08] <emcrules_> easy
[01:43:53] <atmega> hiperface looks good on paper, is it not?
[01:44:13] <atmega> guess maybe not for emc, but for general positioning stuff
[01:44:36] <emcrules_> yes but foe emc use i can just spend the $40 and go
[01:45:37] <atmega> I have a hard time switching from work stuff vs. home stuff
[01:46:00] <Valen> I want to use those to run hobby brushless motors for servos
[01:46:11] <Valen> though the cogging could be a bit of an issue
[01:46:43] <Valen> did you request a quote?
[01:46:46] <emcrules_> used with a 8i20 i can use any ac servo i pick up and pull of the encoder if its a hiperface absolute put one of these on and off to the races
[01:46:57] <emcrules_> digikey 40$
[01:47:06] <Valen> thats really good
[01:47:17] <emcrules_> their capacitive too
[01:47:47] <Valen> .004 mm per count on a 5mm screw
[01:47:49] <Valen> not too bad
[01:47:49] <emcrules_> max spped on a 2 pole motor is like 15 to 20k
[01:48:21] <Valen> got a link to the digikey page?
[01:48:43] <emcrules_> just hit the check stock button
[01:49:05] <Valen> ahh
[01:49:07] <Valen> hiding
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[01:51:33] <pcw_home> Ken Olsen RIP
[01:52:00] <danimal_garage> who's that?
[01:52:16] <atmega> wow
[01:52:26] <danimal_garage> ah
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[01:54:02] <atmega> he had some vision, but didn't continue it
[01:54:26] <danimal_garage> well the axis is working ok now
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[01:54:44] <danimal_garage> not sure what i did
[01:54:55] <atmega> I have an alpha running VMS on my desk
[01:54:59] <danimal_garage> has to be cable routing
[01:56:55] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://imagebin.org/136666
[01:57:36] <atmega> that's a lot of db9's
[01:58:35] <danimal_garage> yea, wow
[01:58:37] <Emcrules_Laptop> I thought so too but wanted it to be flexibile for now
[01:58:39] <danimal_garage> what are those for
[01:58:40] <cradek> 7i48, 7i37?
[01:58:49] <Emcrules_Laptop> yes
[01:59:07] <cradek> the 7i48 is neat
[02:00:12] <Emcrules_Laptop> 6 axis command plugs 6 axis feedback the rest for spindle,lube,probe &limits
[02:00:47] <cradek> can that pico power supply run the ssd?
[02:01:12] <danimal_garage> nice
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[02:01:40] <danimal_garage> have you guys seen those power supplys that run off of 12v?
[02:01:59] <cradek> that's one of them, I think
[02:02:30] <Emcrules_Laptop> Actuall it runs off of 12 to 36V
[02:02:31] <danimal_garage> it'd be nice to have one of those and a power one power supply to run it and any i/o stuff
[02:03:00] <danimal_garage> the one i saw was at the local big box place, it wasnt a pico, some chinese brand probably
[02:03:13] <Emcrules_Laptop> Im putting in a 24vdc and 5vdc supply as well inside the case for I/O and board power
[02:04:19] <danimal_garage> oh crap it is a pico one
[02:04:41] <danimal_garage> http://www.frys.com/product/5974854
[02:06:30] <Emcrules_Laptop> http://imagebin.org/136668
[02:07:17] <danimal_garage> nice
[02:07:21] <danimal_garage> looks good
[02:08:14] <elmo40> Emcrules_Laptop: clean and simple :)
[02:09:03] <Emcrules_Laptop> Thanks i made it so its easy to build it regardless of the motor and feedback selection
[02:11:47] <Emcrules_Laptop> Cradek, are you using the 7i48?
[02:12:22] <cradek> yes I have a 7i33 and 7i48 in my vmc
[02:13:06] <Emcrules_Laptop> Ah Nice.
[02:14:43] <Emcrules_Laptop> What would work well for machining PCB's D-bit?
[02:16:35] <danimal_garage> a 1" corn cobb cutter
[02:16:40] <danimal_garage> :)
[02:17:02] <Emcrules_Laptop> lol? what
[02:17:06] <cradek> http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/mechmill.htm
[02:17:24] <cradek> these work great
[02:18:22] <Emcrules_Laptop> Cradek, Thanks!
[02:18:40] <skunkworks> heh - I have a 7i33 and 7i48 also (I didn't know I was a copy cat) - actually - I bought the 7i33 before the 7i48's where out
[02:18:52] <Tom_itx> someone told me to use a half round bit and custom grind the tip just a bit
[02:18:55] <cradek> same here
[02:19:14] <danimal_garage> i wonder if those bits would work well for engraving aluminum
[02:19:18] <Tom_itx> just a flat halfround
[02:19:30] <skunkworks> I have had better luck with the thinkink style - cuts better.
[02:19:31] <cradek> I have used them for engraving aluminum **very** shallow
[02:19:57] <cradek> I doubt you could beat these for PCBs. .008 separations are no problem
[02:20:07] <cradek> I sure can't hand grind anything that does that
[02:20:29] <danimal_garage> cradek, i usually engrave at about .002"-.004" deep
[02:20:50] <danimal_garage> just enough to get through the anodizing
[02:20:55] <cradek> yeah these will work then, I bet
[02:21:13] <cradek> you better be able to get over 4k rpm though :-)
[02:21:19] <Tom_itx> get to know your grinder... intimately
[02:21:20] <danimal_garage> 6k
[02:21:51] <danimal_garage> my logo is rather detailed, so i need something with a small tip otherwise it looks blobish
[02:23:26] <danimal_garage> the mill is working MUCH better now
[02:23:49] <danimal_garage> i really need to get my new enclosure built
[02:23:59] <danimal_garage> so i can isolate the wires better
[02:24:04] <emcrules_> Cradek, have a few min to talk about usb devices?
[02:26:55] <skunkworks> http://fadedbits.com/
[02:27:17] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m4quM9Lvog&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
[02:29:03] <emcrules_> i see that vise is very popular. Nice probe build
[02:30:37] <Tom_itx> standard 6 or 8" kurt vise
[02:31:33] <danimal_garage> i love my Kurt vices
[02:32:39] <Tom_itx> http://www.kurtworkholding.com/
[02:32:41] <cradek> heh I think the guy in that video is running my probing gcode
[02:32:47] <cradek> or else he wrote exactly the same thing I did...
[02:33:02] <emcrules_> nope it has you name on the page
[02:33:07] <Tom_itx> make pairs of soft aluminum jaws for them and you can hold odd shapes easily
[02:33:16] <Tom_itx> mill the shape in the jaws
[02:33:22] <skunkworks> cradek: that is what I thought - isn't it part of the sample gcode?
[02:34:01] <cradek> I think it's on my website, not sure about anywhere else
[02:34:14] <skunkworks> ah - ok
[02:34:31] <skunkworks> I thought it saw it somewhere
[02:38:41] <Emcrules_Laptop> How would I send commands to a usb device and recieve the response with emc? would i write a comp for that or is it more writing a driver
[02:39:00] <cradek> what kind of device?
[02:39:50] <Emcrules_Laptop> the pokeys55 it has hid keyboard and joystick but to get other functions like a keypad matrix
[02:40:45] <Emcrules_Laptop> or sould i look at different hardware?
[02:41:09] <skunkworks> what are you trying to control? how
[02:41:26] <skunkworks> how 'realtimey' does it have to be?
[02:41:50] <cradek> I don't know anything about the pokeys, but if you don't care to read it in realtime, you can do it in userspace with a hal component
[02:42:04] <skunkworks> I thought everything from pokeys55 showed up as halinput pins.
[02:42:07] <Emcrules_Laptop> basic input function i can offload from mesa hardware and push thru usb. cycle start mode selection stuff like that
[02:42:19] <cradek> if you had realtime IO, you could easily scan a keyboard in hal
[02:42:50] <Emcrules_Laptop> it does but only what fits in the hid outline so keypad matrix is not mapped
[02:48:25] <Emcrules_Laptop> I can use it in emc right now map in any of the 55 io to a joystic or keyboard button. But if i want to hook up a keypad matrix then it's not mapped. I thought if a driver could be written to it the i could get all posible input/output modes. This board allows for up to 24 encoder connections as well so it could work well for feedrate and spindle overides
[02:49:01] <cradek> I bet you could write a driver to do that all then - sounds useful
[02:49:21] <cradek> you might take a look at the new jogXPress (or whatever it's called?) driver
[02:49:32] <seb_kuzminsky> shuttlexpress
[02:49:33] <cradek> it has defective HID so seb bypassed it
[02:49:40] <cradek> and there he is now
[02:49:45] * cradek pokes seb_kuzminsky
[02:49:49] * seb_kuzminsky unlurks
[02:51:29] <seb_kuzminsky> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/user_comps/shuttlexpress.c;h=6d9128ff0408980e3315b04a4a85df16e2f9104e;hb=HEAD
[02:51:41] <Emcrules_Laptop> LOL yeah i think it's very usefull to offload HMI type inputs that could run outside of RT
[02:51:52] <seb_kuzminsky> i used the hidraw interface to get direct packet access to the device
[02:52:21] <seb_kuzminsky> i don't recommend the shuttlexpress device, the build quality is too cheesy
[02:52:30] <seb_kuzminsky> but the software might be a starting point for your driver
[02:54:12] <seb_kuzminsky> hm, the pokeys device looks interesting
[02:57:17] <Emcrules_Laptop> Analog,PWM,Encoder,LCD,matrix and plain old I/O 55 of them
[02:58:41] <Emcrules_Laptop> Im giong to have to blow off the dust on my C programming but just maybe
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[03:12:46] <danimal_garage> 3 machines running right now, one is a manual
[03:14:17] <Tom_L> 2 running and one running you
[03:14:32] <danimal_garage> :)
[03:14:40] <danimal_garage> my boss would be proud
[03:16:38] <Emcrules_Laptop> whats the linux version of a DLL
[03:18:59] <pcw_home> We should have a RS-422 pendant interface sometime later this year,
[03:19:00] <pcw_home> Not as convenient as USB but realtime and more reliable for long distances
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[03:20:53] <Emcrules_Laptop> pcw how much i/o on it?
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[03:35:07] <danimal_garage> so far so good on the flakey axis
[03:35:21] <danimal_garage> still hasnt jumped
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[04:16:30] <pcw_home> Dont remember off hand but I think a 8X8 keypad 8 analog in or 4 encoders or some mix LCD PWM some I/O bits
[04:16:31] <pcw_home> I
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[12:06:04] <awallin_> anyone using pluto-P with 10.04LTS ? someone on the forums is getting this dmesg: "[ 62.565530] Failed to communicate with pluto-servo board after programming firmware."
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[13:03:34] <jthornton> is 21.95k ohms 21,950 or 219500 ohms? geese I suck at math
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[13:22:12] <cradek> k = *1000, so 21950
[13:22:53] <kb8wmc> good morning cradek
[13:23:54] <jthornton> cradek: thanks
[13:24:09] <cradek> welcome, bbl
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[14:05:43] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: I have an interesting problem with one of the atom boards that I setup as a test linux server.
[14:07:38] <skunkworks> It worked great for a good year - but after some point (maybe a kernal update) it would stop network traffic copying large files. (after 10-15 seconds)
[14:08:20] <skunkworks> It was karmic and upgraded it to lucid but the problem remained. (I still have not had a chance to figure it out)
[14:09:16] <cradek> it's hardware
[14:10:20] <cradek> don't you know the haiku? yesterday it worked / but today it doesn't work / windows is like that
[14:10:39] <cradek> with linux if it stops working out of the blue one day, it's always hardware
[14:10:52] <skunkworks> heh - I am thinking that also - as I remember givving it one hell of a shock sometime not long ago. :)
[14:11:23] <skunkworks> I was going to find another motherboard to try
[14:11:58] <skunkworks> everything else is working - it as an esata card in it running a 7tb 8 drive box.
[14:12:45] <skunkworks> good morning!
[14:13:40] <SWPadnos> that does sound a little like the network stoppages I used to see
[14:13:42] <SWPadnos> hi
[14:13:43] <the_wench> hello SWPadnos, you have a question?
[14:13:50] <SWPadnos> no, so shut up
[14:14:15] <skunkworks> It was in the back of my mind ;)
[14:15:13] <SWPadnos> those went away 99.99% when I upgraded to 9.04 though, I think
[14:15:28] <SWPadnos> I know they basically disappeared, but I don't remember what update did it
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[14:18:49] <skunkworks> what are the chances of me replacing the motherboard with something totally different and havining it boot?
[14:18:57] <SWPadnos> 99.99%
[14:19:01] <cradek> high
[14:19:01] <SWPadnos> maybe better
[14:19:09] <cradek> (if it's a similar processor)
[14:19:24] <SWPadnos> unless it's a 64-bit install and you switch to a 32-bit only CPU
[14:22:34] <skunkworks> well it would be from intel to amd..
[14:22:45] <skunkworks> I guess it can't hurt to try
[14:24:03] <skunkworks> The 'upgrade' through the package manager was almost painless. It didn't do the grub correctly (or I didn't answer a question right) but I was able to find info online to fix it.
[14:24:18] <skunkworks> (non realtime)
[14:24:46] <SWPadnos> intel vs amd should be no issue. the only thing that generally screws things up for me is different video drivers
[14:24:52] <SWPadnos> which you'll have to deal wirh
[14:25:12] <SWPadnos> (since it's unlikely to have an Intel IGP graphics chip on an AMD board)
[14:26:04] <skunkworks> heh
[14:28:18] <SWPadnos> so, after having difficulty finding the parts manual for my snowblower, it turned out to be very useful. It actually said what the bolt size was for the bolts that hold the started in place.
[14:28:27] <SWPadnos> which had all vibrated out
[14:28:57] <SWPadnos> and even better, they turned out to be 1/4-20x1/2"
[14:29:57] <JT-Shop> If I have only the installed version of EMC on my computer and want to add a custom comp does "comp --install rtexample.comp" do that for me?
[14:30:09] <SWPadnos> should
[14:30:14] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[14:30:28] <SWPadnos> assuming you have comp installed (I don't know if it's part of emc2-dev or what)
[14:30:37] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[14:30:48] <SWPadnos> try it - like I said, I don't know :)
[14:32:34] <JT-Shop> all my computers have dev installed so if he types in man comp on his and it shows up he is good to go :)
[14:32:55] <SWPadnos> should be
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[14:33:04] <SWPadnos> though I think there's also a HAL component called comp
[14:33:06] <SWPadnos> comparator
[14:34:11] <JT-Shop> ok we will watch for that too
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[14:35:44] <JT-Shop> thanks
[14:35:50] <SWPadnos> sure
[14:40:29] <skunkworks> heh - the thing booted right up
[14:40:38] <emcrules_mobile> jt-shop, not to push but have you thought about the pokeys config?
[14:47:31] <skunkworks> not the issue.
[14:47:46] <skunkworks> odd - so that means I need to figure out what I did wrong
[14:58:13] <JT-Shop> emcrules_mobile: LOL, I've not found mine yet, but have not given up looking
[15:00:12] <emcrules_mobile> I'm thinking I might look at writing a driver for it based off of seb's work on the shuttle xpress
[15:00:38] <JT-Shop> you have two pokeys hooked up?
[15:00:55] <JT-Shop> nm
[15:01:02] <emcrules_mobile> no just one
[15:02:11] <JT-Shop> what kind of rotate switch do you have?
[15:02:52] <emcrules_mobile> just a mechanical encoder 4 bit binary
[15:07:16] <JT-Shop> YEA! the backhoe started and the sun is out :)
[15:07:37] <JT-Shop> what are you doing with the encoder input?
[15:08:18] <JT-Shop> I used pots on the analog inputs when I tested mine
[15:10:18] <emcrules_mobile> the mechanical encoder was just to select operating modes or mpg mag its really just 4 switches
[15:10:58] <emcrules_mobile> what I really want to use are matrix keypads
[15:11:07] <JT-Shop> only one at a time is on?
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[15:12:18] <emcrules_mobile> no 4 bit binary pattern. what kind of backhoe I have a 310
[15:12:27] <JT-Shop> 310a
[15:13:06] <emcrules_mobile> nice
[15:13:55] <JT-Shop> I had the hyd pump rebuilt last year... what a difference and the rebuilders are only 60 miles from here
[15:17:18] <emcrules_mobile> aslong as they are taken care of they will run forever. I also have a 1950 cat d4
[15:17:55] <JT-Shop> I've been looking for a small dozer with a 6 way but have not found one yet
[15:18:48] <JT-Shop> doing a little googling looks like a matrix keyboard just outputs pairs of pins depending on the key you press
[15:19:47] <JT-Shop> does your switch put out gray code or bcd?
[15:21:22] <emcrules_mobile> yes it is but to use it with the pokeys the row pins need to be digital outputs. the hid mapping won't support the matrix so need to bypass hid
[15:21:30] <emcrules_mobile> bcd
[15:23:46] <JT-Shop> well the backhoe is warmed up I can tell the rpm just went up and the sun is out so I have try and finish decking the west side today as more snow is expected Wednesday
[15:24:48] <emcrules_mobile> Have fun
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[16:39:58] <danimal_garage> morning
[16:40:29] <archivist> you get up late, its 4:30 in the afternoon
[16:40:56] <danimal_garage> if you drank as much beer as i do, you would too
[16:42:50] <psha> it's evening already so it was much beer...
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[16:44:51] <danimal_garage> it's 8:44AM here
[16:45:59] <psha> 19:45
[16:46:00] <psha> :)
[16:49:15] <danimal_garage> my toolchanger is acting up when it's cold
[16:49:16] <danimal_garage> weird
[16:49:31] <danimal_garage> or at least just when i first run it
[16:49:44] <danimal_garage> it's all air/hydraullic
[16:51:16] <skunkworks> on what?
[16:51:22] <danimal_garage> my mill
[16:51:48] <danimal_garage> i wonder if there's air trapped in the hydro piston somewhere
[16:55:15] <skunkworks> Our machine is all hydraulic - I know the tool chain does some funny stuff on its inital startup. Goes really fast as the air gets out.
[16:55:31] <skunkworks> for a second
[16:56:48] <danimal_garage> i upped the air pressure about 10psi and it's good
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[17:49:56] <ktchk> Hi The "hal gantry" for emc2.5 can not get out of estop and start machine, any later version?
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[17:53:39] <ktchk> Hi any gantry router user arround?
[17:54:21] <atmega> did you assign a pint to estop-in?
[17:54:57] <ktchk> I only test with axis no breakout board.
[17:56:38] <micges> ktchk: please pastebin.com your ini and hal file
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[17:59:13] <bill2or3> in Stepconf, the "Driver Microstepping" field, "2.0" is half-step, and "8.0" is 1/8 microstepping, and so on. Correct?
[17:59:33] <ktchk> micges: Oh I am using the standard ini and hal file from the sim stepper gantry
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[18:01:17] <atmega> bill4: yes
[18:02:44] <micges> ktchk: this config use parport, yo must connect correct estop pin to parport to run it
[18:02:50] <bill2or3> that means this fireballV90 ships set to halfstepping. that seems...well... I'd have expected finer steps.
[18:03:16] <bill2or3> but it's not running yet, so I may discover that 1/2stepping is the best setting.
[18:03:37] <micges> ktchk: on pin parport pin 10
[18:03:48] <ktchk> micges: OK I have a working box will try with it. Thanks
[18:03:54] <danimal_garage> wow, 2.5 is out already?
[18:04:41] <danimal_garage> so when i install emc on my new HDD, what version should i go with? the latest rev of 2.4?
[18:04:52] <micges> latest 2.4
[18:04:57] <ktchk> Yes in the git, just install it for a try.
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[18:12:15] <jthornton_> wow 7000 messages on the forum :)
[18:13:14] <ktchk> micges:Are you using a gantry type?
[18:13:39] <micges> yes
[18:13:52] <ktchk> 4 motors?
[18:14:15] <micges> also
[18:14:35] <micges> have XY gantry, XYYZ gantry, XXYZ also
[18:15:18] <alex_joni> jthornton_: really? wow
[18:15:30] <psha> jthornton_: 7k get :)
[18:15:33] <ktchk> Is it better to use 2 drive board for YY better the the hal file?
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[18:16:54] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[18:19:18] <jthornton_> alex_joni: really!
[18:19:51] <micges> ktchk: better from what?
[18:20:22] * jthornton_ goes back to roofing
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[18:21:03] <ktchk> micges:I mean gang the two driver board directly.
[18:22:20] <micges> it depends
[18:22:39] <ktchk> How?
[18:22:53] <micges> there are good and bad things on each gantry type
[18:23:35] <ktchk> Bad things?
[18:24:44] <micges> if you drive two boards with one step signal, your only option to set skew of table is mechanically move one arm
[18:25:31] <micges> if you drive two boards with two signals you can only move limit switch to correct skew
[18:25:44] <micges> and so on
[18:26:01] <ktchk> I have no limit switch only soft limit
[18:27:33] <micges> so for you easiest way is to drive one step signal two boards
[18:27:44] <ktchk> I have short gantry no skew problem, I can only link the signals and modify the router to gantry drive to put the 4 axis in.
[18:28:44] <ktchk> micges: Thanks nice talking to you, bye.
[18:29:08] <micges> bye
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[18:31:07] <IchGuckLive> hi all can i change the 4axis in stepconf for a real axis not a degree axis ?
[18:31:32] <IchGuckLive> to drive a hot-wirer cnc ß
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[18:32:35] <IchGuckLive> stepconf gives me a A-axis as a Rotation Table
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[18:34:22] <micges> IchGuckLive: easiest way is to edit configuration by hand
[18:36:21] <IchGuckLive> micges: i will go for this and see if it works
[18:38:02] <IchGuckLive> does then Axis use the G-code also as a liniar ?
[18:38:34] <micges> yes
[18:39:04] <micges> you must change A rotart axis to U or V or W linear axis
[18:39:46] <IchGuckLive> ojk
[18:40:05] <IchGuckLive> i will go for XYUV
[18:40:31] <IchGuckLive> the same as a EDM
[18:48:54] <kirk_wallace> Hello, I've edited hal_parport.c to make strobed_pp.c which removes the break out of the pins and just sends out a byte on the parallel port. My problem is when I try to compile with comp I get "/usr/include/emc2/parport_common.h:66: error: implicit declaration of function ‘hal_comp_name’" . From my limited experience with C, hal_comp_name is declared in hal.h and described in hal_lib.c . My strobed_pp.c includes hal.h so I assume it can see hal
[18:51:41] <kirk_wallace> Oops, I left out that parport_common.h is the file that calls hall_comp_name, which is indicated in the error message.
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[19:03:13] <kirk_wallace> I also should have said "Because strobed_pp.c also includes parport_common.h, does that also mean" parport_common.h "can see hal_comp_name in hal.h/hal_lib.c" even though hal.h is not included locally, but in the parent strobed_pp.c?
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[19:32:09] <skunkworks> heh - narrowed it down to the raid box. I can't copy stuff to it - but I can copy stuff off of it. :)
[19:32:16] <skunkworks> wierd
[19:32:50] <kirk_wallace> I think I found the problem, I don't seem to have a hal_lib.c anywhere on my computer.
[19:34:17] <skunkworks> odd
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[19:40:14] <MattyMatt> I bought a lathe \o/
[19:40:19] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190497466294
[19:42:18] <MattyMatt> a bit of a fixer upper maybe, but I like the look of the headstock
[19:42:40] <kirk_wallace> MattyMatt: I assume you are picking it up?
[19:42:59] <MattyMatt> or maybe dragging it to the car >:)
[19:43:53] <MattyMatt> the base looks like 3/4" steel plate :p
[19:44:35] <MattyMatt> I'll take all the ropes & planks and trolleys I have
[19:45:40] <kirk_wallace> The ad says 2.5" center by 11" long. I think that means 5" swing and 11" between centers? Should be fairly small over all.
[19:46:17] <MattyMatt> yeah british lathes are usually quotes as height over bed
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[19:47:58] <MattyMatt> I think 11" means including the tailstock :p it's a short bed
[19:48:16] <MattyMatt> it'll do what I need for now tho
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[19:48:40] <MattyMatt> as long as the shaft is hollow
[19:49:31] <kirk_wallace> Looks like the original spindle was lost and replaced with a generic one. Might make it convenient to use for a mill spindle too.
[19:50:37] <MattyMatt> I don't have room for a mill that'd use a spindle that large :)
[19:50:50] <MattyMatt> my mill's a dremeler atm
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[19:51:45] <MattyMatt> I can make sth better than the dremel now, of course :)
[19:54:02] <MattyMatt> with one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ER11-8MM-STRAIGHT-SHANK-CHUCK-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-D66_W0QQitemZ150558930883
[19:54:35] <kirk_wallace> Well, it will be interesting when you get it in your shop. The pictures leave a bit to the imagination, but it seems worth the cost.
[19:55:24] <MattyMatt> junk lathes are way overpriced round here. too many old men making model steam trains
[19:56:07] <MattyMatt> the stripped leadnut is what made this one affordable. I can mill delrin halves for that
[19:57:10] <kirk_wallace> It's one of the few pleasures we have left :)
[19:57:14] <MattyMatt> I've got to wonder what else got bent in the crash that stripped the nut :)
[19:58:20] <MattyMatt> if I make models, it'll be strictly as a business, for selling. This is not a hobby...it's a vocation ;)
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[20:03:47] <MattyMatt> and if I did make models for fun, ships is my thing
[20:04:24] <skunkworks> cradek: it seems to be a linux issue. :) I hooked the raid box into a already installed lucid system and it read and writes normally.
[20:07:07] <kirk_wallace> This on my fantasy list of things to do:
[20:07:11] <kirk_wallace> http://www.steamlaunch.com/hulls/steamlaunch.html
[20:07:34] <cradek> skunkworks: a linux issue that developed after working correctly for a year?
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[20:10:52] <MattyMatt> kirk_wallace yeah I'd much rather make a real boat than a scale model
[20:11:13] <atmega> ever owned a real boat?
[20:11:30] <atmega> It's much better to have friends with boats
[20:11:36] <MattyMatt> nope. I learned to sail a dinghy when I was young
[20:12:31] <MattyMatt> I live by the Mersey, so I see plenty of real ships
[20:13:26] <skunkworks> cradek: yes
[20:13:28] <MattyMatt> the boat-owning set are a bit exclusive, so I'd have to have a boat before I have the friends with boats :)
[20:13:42] <kirk_wallace> I helped crew a sailboat on SF Bay, way fun and better than owning I suppose.
[20:13:44] <skunkworks> cradek: I could have been me... Though all I did was run updated periodically
[20:14:12] <atmega> I make stuff for my boat with my router
[20:14:49] <skunkworks> *run updates periodically
[20:15:16] <skunkworks> the question is - do I want to try to fix it or just install new? ;')
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[20:31:21] <danimal_garage> i cant wait to set up the new pc for the mill and give 2.4 a shot
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[20:35:16] <skunkworks> seb!
[20:35:56] <seb_kuzminsky> hi!
[20:37:38] <skunkworks> how is it going?
[20:38:43] <JT-Shop> YEA! another 1/4 of the decking finished.... 1/4 to go and I'm done decking :)
[20:39:18] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: it's a slow snowy day here
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[20:42:25] <cradek> it's a slow super-cold-but-not-snowy day here
[20:44:32] <skunkworks> high of 1 today!
[20:44:42] <seb_kuzminsky> brr
[20:44:59] <skunkworks> it was only 2 below this morning though ;)
[20:45:02] <seb_kuzminsky> i woke up to -22 the other day - coldest temperature i've seen here in boulder
[20:45:49] <cradek> I always get pissy when it's this cold because people say "XX below zero" instead of assuming all of us know how the minus sign works
[20:46:22] <atmega> it's -54F below zero here
[20:46:24] <cradek> ... which leads to the equally ridiculous "XX above zero" which infiltrate the rest of the weather forecast as soon as there's a "below zero" in there.
[20:46:28] <seb_kuzminsky> wow cradek, have you tried anti-pissy medication? :-P
[20:46:38] <cradek> yes, the damn stuff doesn't work
[20:46:41] <cradek> :-)
[20:46:43] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[20:47:10] <seb_kuzminsky> remember when we tuned the stepper on my varispeed?
[20:47:11] <cradek> what if my thermometer is horizontal? WHAT ABOUT THAT?
[20:47:23] <seb_kuzminsky> i had to turn the maxvel down because it started stalling in the cold :-/
[20:47:31] <danimal_garage> ha
[20:47:37] <archivist> and the silly buggers who think wind chill is real
[20:47:41] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: yuck
[20:47:45] <skunkworks> 2 left
[20:47:51] <skunkworks> 4 right
[20:47:52] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: I think the only cure for that is spring
[20:47:52] <seb_kuzminsky> yes
[20:48:00] <danimal_garage> move to a warmer climate
[20:48:26] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: at least you don't still have the keyboard that only works when it's warm...
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[21:14:22] <skunkworks> cradek: am I ok by saying '2 below' or should I get slapped?
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[21:15:22] <cradek> what if my thermometer is horizontal? WHAT ABOUT THAT?
[21:15:38] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: you have to go jump in a lake http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RyUf7r_9yNs
[21:16:35] <cradek> eeee
[21:18:19] <skunkworks> yikes
[21:20:14] <skunkworks> coworker is polar plunging this year.... Crazy people
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[21:42:38] <skunkworks> cradek: http://ca.pastebin.com/TTxkFKE3
[21:42:59] <skunkworks> odd stuff
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[21:44:31] <skunkworks> (that is just trying to copy a largeish file to the volume.
[21:45:06] <skunkworks> looks like I had used ext4 - don't know if that was such a great idea
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[21:59:25] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I think that's the default FS, sadly enough
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[21:59:34] <Jymmm> skunkworks: during install
[22:00:24] <skunkworks> this is damage I caused. (external raid box though e-sata)
[22:00:40] <Jymmm> what did you do?
[22:00:43] <skunkworks> hey - I didn't know any better at the time
[22:01:16] <skunkworks> when I created the raid volume - I picked ext4 it looks like
[22:01:33] <Jymmm> skunkworks: On what exactly?
[22:01:57] <skunkworks> a litte test server using one of those atom boards
[22:02:03] <skunkworks> *little
[22:02:16] <Jymmm> skunkworks: what does that have to do with a radi box and esata?
[22:02:18] <Jymmm> raid
[22:03:26] <skunkworks> you said that the install defaults to ext4 - yes. But the install is on a separate drive from the raid - the raid was added after the fact.
[22:04:43] <Jymmm> skunkworks: You are assuming that I know what hardware you have. If you have multiple hdd's or multiple systemsinvoled, you need to state that and how they interact for clarity =)
[22:04:49] <skunkworks> so - when I created the volume on the raid box - I must have picked ext4
[22:05:13] <skunkworks> heh
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[22:06:31] <Jymmm> skunkworks: know what I mean jellybean?
[22:07:36] <skunkworks> I understand :)
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[22:30:35] <seb_kuzminsky> i think ext4 is a fine choice - i use it everywhere
[22:31:38] <seb_kuzminsky> the new buildbot uses ext4 on raid6: /dev/md0 on / type ext4 (rw,errors=remount-ro)
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[22:36:02] <skunkworks> I can only go by what I have read. (and I also have not had issues with it - other than the issues I am having now which may or may not be ext4 problems_
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[22:42:22] <Jymmm> I see that seb_kuzminsky has never actually attempted to RECOVER files from ext4 hdd's
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[23:00:17] <Emcrules_Laptop> pcw, whats the difference between the 8i20 and 8i21
[23:02:37] <PCW> 8I21 is MOSFET, lower voltage, higher current
[23:03:36] <Emcrules_Laptop> so more for lower voltage BLDC's
[23:03:52] <PCW> Yes or brush motors
[23:03:58] <JT-Shop> Hot Damm! I got it blacked in before dark
[23:04:13] <Tom_itx> no snow?
[23:04:22] * Tom_itx shares the snow with JT-Shop
[23:04:23] <JT-Shop> 100% Wednesday
[23:04:41] <JT-Shop> rest of the week looks good atm
[23:04:54] <Emcrules_Laptop> damm cold up here
[23:04:57] <Tom_itx> yeah hopefully it's about done here
[23:05:25] <JT-Shop> -2C here
[23:05:46] <Emcrules_Laptop> -20C this morn here
[23:06:39] <Emcrules_Laptop> Thank god for heated seats in the truck
[23:06:57] <JT-Shop> with any luck I'll have the roof decked this weekend and blacked in so the weather won't be a concern
[23:07:05] <Valen> whats the price on 8I21 for say 4 of em?
[23:07:07] <Jymmm> 61°F Sunny and in tshirt
[23:07:13] <PCW> we will have some little serial drives as well (6 A 50V)
[23:08:17] <PCW> No price yet on 8I21
[23:08:43] <Emcrules_Laptop> pcw, should i worry about bandwith on the 7i42 if i use it to connect my hall signals?
[23:08:52] <Valen> what sort of ballpark
[23:09:08] <Valen> $50,$200?
[23:09:26] <PCW> No Halls are very unpicky
[23:10:32] <Emcrules_Laptop> I found encoders that have commutation signals so i planed on hooking up the halls thru a 7i42
[23:14:00] <PCW> If you use the BLDC comp the Halls are only read at startup anyway (might eventually be more suited to a 7I69 - serial 48 bit TTL I/O)
[23:16:19] <PCW> (so you don't waste as many FPGA pins)
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[23:31:42] <Emcrules_Laptop> pcw, ok just want to avoid the startup jitter I have lots of I/O so not too much of an issue.
[23:38:34] <danimal_garage> i get the startup jitters in the morning after a night of drinking
[23:40:15] <Emcrules_Laptop> lol you too!!!
[23:41:48] <Jymmm> Sounds like you guys haven't been using EMC2, but BDI... Binge Drinking Intoxication!
[23:42:36] <Valen> danimal_garage: you just need to add a new smoothing component, called it "hairofthedog"
[23:42:50] -!- danimal_garage has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[23:42:59] <Valen> guess he was in a rush
[23:43:00] <Jymmm> I think he just did
[23:43:07] <Valen> snap ;-P
[23:43:27] <Valen> heh its amazing the difference a "popular" torrent makes lol
[23:43:56] <Valen> missus missed an ep of some vampire show, anything I get that way has like 8 seeds, this has about 3000
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[23:54:16] <Emcrules_Laptop> can linux be loaded via usb?
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[23:55:55] <Emcrules_Laptop> nm
[23:58:10] <Valen> yes
[23:59:44] <Emcrules_Laptop> just copy the live cd image to a key and boot from usb?